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Speaker 1: It's been less than two months since Jeff Sessions took

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Speaker 1: the oath to become Attorney General, and he's already presiding

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Speaker 1: over a number of major changes covering law and order,

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Speaker 1: voting rights, and immigration enforcement. This week, he ordered a

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Speaker 1: sweeping review of dozens of civil rights agreements. His Justice

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Speaker 1: Department reached with not his Justice Department, the Barack Obama

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Speaker 1: Justice Department, whether reached with local police departments. With us

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Speaker 1: to talk about what some people are calling a seizement

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Speaker 1: shift seismic shift at the Justice Department is Ames Grout,

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Speaker 1: He's counsel in the Brennan Center's Justice Program. James, thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining us. One thing Jeff Session said with this

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Speaker 1: UH announcement about the review of the agreements with police

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Speaker 1: departments was he said, quote, the misdeeds of individual bad

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Speaker 1: actors should not impugne or undermine the legitimate and honorable

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Speaker 1: work that law enforcement officers and agencies perform. UH. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to argue with that. What what? What's what? If

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Speaker 1: anything is wrong with what Jeff Sessions UH is doing

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Speaker 1: with this review assurance Well, first, thanks for heaving me

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Speaker 1: on the show and thrilled to be able to sneak

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Speaker 1: with you today. Um So, the one surprising thing that

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Speaker 1: that comment brings up is a couple It originates in

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Speaker 1: a comment Sessions made a couple weeks ago where he

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Speaker 1: said that he thought reviews begun by a President Obama's

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Speaker 1: Justice Department and implemented or in the process of process

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Speaker 1: of implementation, were based on anecdotal findings about individual police

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Speaker 1: officers who had done bad things that didn't reflect on

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Speaker 1: the department. Like you say, I think anyone could agree

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Speaker 1: that if if it's a single officer who's doing something wrong,

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Speaker 1: that shouldn't be imputed to the broader department. But that's

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Speaker 1: not what the Justice Department found in Sessions has conceded

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Speaker 1: he he hasn't actually read many of these studies. He

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Speaker 1: hasn't read the proposed consent decrease. What the reports of

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Speaker 1: the Obama Justice Department found, and what these consent to

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Speaker 1: creates are designed to address our patterns and practices of

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Speaker 1: abuse of behavior by local police departments. In the case

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Speaker 1: of the Baltimore report that led to the Penning Baltimore

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Speaker 1: Consent Decree, the Justice Department sund a pattern practice not

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Speaker 1: isolated to a single officer of UM police officers engaging

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Speaker 1: in unlawful stops and singling out members of communities of color.

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Speaker 1: So how much of an impact do you think this

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Speaker 1: review is going to have? Obviously, some of these agreements

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Speaker 1: are already have already been improved by by courts. Can

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Speaker 1: Jeff Sessions really change a whole lot? So? I think

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Speaker 1: today's hearing, what there was a hearing today in the

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Speaker 1: Baltimore Federal Court to address the Baltimore Consent Decree is

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Speaker 1: is pretty illustrative of what we might see. Uh Sessions

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Speaker 1: had asked for a ninety day period to review the

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Speaker 1: consent decree before scheduled hearing in federal court, and the

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Speaker 1: Federal Court said no, and seems very skeptical of his

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Speaker 1: claims at the hearing today that he wanted to more

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Speaker 1: time to review it, that he was suspicious that the

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Speaker 1: decree would be effective and addressing problems in the in

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Speaker 1: the community. So what we're seeing, I think is what

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Speaker 1: we we should probably expect to see, is that Sessions,

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Speaker 1: as some authority over um consent to cre negotiations negotiations

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Speaker 1: that are still ongoing, certainly has authority over the oversight

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Speaker 1: of existing decrees, but he might not be able to

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Speaker 1: stop prostitutes that have already started, but he's going to try.

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Speaker 1: How about in the way those agreements are enforced? I mean,

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Speaker 1: is there, uh you know, a world in which he

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Speaker 1: can be more lax than the Justice Department was under

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Speaker 1: Barack Obama and essentially let from from the standpoint of

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Speaker 1: civil rights advocates, let police departments go back to getting

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Speaker 1: away with things they shouldn't get away with. I think

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Speaker 1: that's true, and I think that some cause for concern

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Speaker 1: if you look at the Baltimore Consent decree and what

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Speaker 1: some of these others Greeks have set out, they they

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Speaker 1: they either would or have already involved the d J

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Speaker 1: in ongoing monitoring of police practices. Uh, some of that,

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Speaker 1: some of that can't be stopped. But as Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: Sessions can certainly have a say over when and how

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Speaker 1: they'll get involved if they find some breach of the agreement.

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Speaker 1: So well, let me move on to other things. And

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Speaker 1: actually I'll let you pick. Where else do you see,

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Speaker 1: you know, I sort of listed a number of things

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Speaker 1: at the beginning where Jeff Sessions has has acted and

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Speaker 1: made changes. Where else do you see him making an

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Speaker 1: especially big impact in his first couple of months so

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Speaker 1: one thing, one of the things that we worry about

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Speaker 1: here is if you listen to Attorney General Sessions, if

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Speaker 1: you listen to the President, they they've tried to they

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Speaker 1: tried to drum up a narrative about rising crime in

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Speaker 1: the United States. Now, it's true that there's uh crime

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Speaker 1: has risen in some cities Chicago, crime has gone up

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Speaker 1: and gone down in other cities like Baltimore, in fact,

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Speaker 1: but they seem convinced that there's a there's some intending

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Speaker 1: crime wave and there's just no evidence to bear that out.

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Speaker 1: And what worries me especially is the Justice Department seems

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Speaker 1: convinced that the way to head off this crime wave

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Speaker 1: is to pull back from police oversight, let police officers

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Speaker 1: do what do whatever they want, and that actually there's

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Speaker 1: not really a whole lot of evidence for that, even

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Speaker 1: among police officers. If you look at how the police

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Speaker 1: Department Baltimore spoke about this consent decree, UH, they're saying

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Speaker 1: they actually want they want the help of the federal government,

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Speaker 1: they want the help of outsiders and helping solve problems

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Speaker 1: between the Baltimore police and their communities. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's it's an important point that police rely on the

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Speaker 1: communities they serve to help solve crimes, and if they

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Speaker 1: don't have the trust of those communities, they can't do

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Speaker 1: a good job at keeping crime down. So well, what

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Speaker 1: worries me the most is this view from Sessions that, um,

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Speaker 1: there is a crime way when there's not, and the

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Speaker 1: way to to keep the under control is to uh

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Speaker 1: not address tensions between police and communities. And that's just

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Speaker 1: not so either. Let me jump over to voting rights

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Speaker 1: and voter ID laws. The Justice Department under under Sessions

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Speaker 1: has pulled out of the case against Texas over its

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Speaker 1: voter ID law. You still have civil rights groups who

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Speaker 1: oppressing cases like that. Uh doesn't matter that the Justice

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Speaker 1: Departments is no longer at least not as aggressively acting

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Speaker 1: as a plane to us in some of these cases.

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Speaker 1: So I should raise one one one thing with you. Well,

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Speaker 1: many of my colleagues work on voting rights. It is

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Speaker 1: not my area of expertise, but I certainly agree with you,

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Speaker 1: and this is something that we're monitoring our own fields.

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Speaker 1: That you know that the Justice Department is the biggest

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Speaker 1: plaintiffs in the room. When the Justice Department steps in

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Speaker 1: and says we see something wrong with the situation had

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Speaker 1: to turn. We actually saw this in criminal justice reform

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Speaker 1: as well. Uh. Several private plaintiffs have brought lawsuits against

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Speaker 1: the counties saying that uh, their way of handling bail

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Speaker 1: lad to um people being locked up just because they

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Speaker 1: were poor and not because they'd actually uh committed a

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Speaker 1: crime and been convicted of it. UH, And the Justice

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Speaker 1: Department actually stepped up, They weighed in. They filed briefs

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Speaker 1: that said, you know, we agree with these third party plaintiffs,

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Speaker 1: and we think the county should address it. And in

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Speaker 1: many cases that's up to shut down shut down the

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Speaker 1: debate where a county might say, well, we're going to

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Speaker 1: take this to trial. We're gonna litigate with anyone who

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Speaker 1: says otherwise. The Justice Department chiming in really changes the

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Speaker 1: perspective without that big voice, without that presence. UH, It's

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Speaker 1: definitely true that there might be some civil rights issues

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Speaker 1: that get less attention than they deserve. Okay, I want

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Speaker 1: to thank our guest, Aimes Growerties, counsel in the Brennan

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Speaker 1: Center's Justice Program, talking about the uh first couple of

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Speaker 1: months of an eventful first couple of months of Jeff

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Speaker 1: Sessions time as Attorney General. He is certainly proving to

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Speaker 1: be one of the most influential of Donald Trump's cabinet officials.

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Speaker 1: He's only been in office for two months. Uh. That's

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Speaker 1: it for for this edition of Bloomberg Law. We will

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Speaker 1: be back tomorrow, UH, no doubt talking about Neil Gorsage again,

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Speaker 1: who may get confirmed to the Supreme Court tomorrow. Thanks

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Speaker 1: to our technical technical director Chris try Coming and our

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Speaker 1: producer David Suckerman, you can find more legal news at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law dot com and Bloomberg Being a dot com