WEBVTT - ICYMI: Tit for Tat Strikes in the Mideast

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week with Carol Masser and tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Well on Saturday afternoon, when news broke that B two

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<v Speaker 1>bombers these are the only jets that are capable of

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<v Speaker 1>deploying those thirty thousand pounds bunker busting munitions. We're heading

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<v Speaker 1>west from their base in Missouri across the Pacific. I

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<v Speaker 1>spoke to my dad on the phone. He's an aviation enthusiast,

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<v Speaker 1>he grew up on Air Force bases, and we're both

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<v Speaker 1>kind of puzzled, like, why would bombers be heading west

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<v Speaker 1>in order to mobilize for a strike on iron. It

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<v Speaker 1>seemed like, h hm, the wrong way. Well, it turns out,

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<v Speaker 1>as we know now, these were decoy B two bombers.

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<v Speaker 1>Well those planes got all the attention. Another group of

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<v Speaker 1>B twos flew east, literally under the radar. For more

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<v Speaker 1>on the operation, we bring in Tony Capasio, Bloomberg News,

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<v Speaker 1>Pentagon and National Security reporter. He writes about the thirty

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<v Speaker 1>seven hour operation so called Midnight. He joins us from

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<v Speaker 1>our Washington DC bureau, We're gonna get to the operation

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<v Speaker 1>details in a second, and the planes, the aircraft that

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<v Speaker 1>were use, the submarine, the ordnance in a minute. But

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<v Speaker 1>I want to get to what the President said on

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<v Speaker 1>True Social a couple hours ago. He said, the sites

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<v Speaker 1>that we hit in Iran were totally destroyed. And everyone

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<v Speaker 1>knows that only the fake news would say anything different

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<v Speaker 1>in order to try and demean as much as possible.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that what our reporting tells us that the sites

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<v Speaker 1>that were hit in Iran were totally destroyed. Do we

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<v Speaker 1>know that yet?

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<v Speaker 2>No, we don't know that yet. Battle damage assessment takes

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes weeks for a measured, informed analysis. He was shooting

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<v Speaker 2>from the hip. There's no way he would have known that.

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<v Speaker 2>General Kane, the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, sound excuse me,

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<v Speaker 2>was pretty measured in that in his assessment. The President

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<v Speaker 2>was exaggerating. There's no way he know that totally obliterated.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just off the charts wrong at this point and

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<v Speaker 2>maybe in two weeks from now. But he was blowing smoke,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, it takes a shot at the fake media.

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<v Speaker 2>But some of us remember the Iraq War going in

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<v Speaker 2>the reasons why and all the intelligence was kind of

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<v Speaker 2>leaning in George Bush's favor. Maybe possibly could be they

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<v Speaker 2>have it. It turns out they didn't. So there's always

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<v Speaker 2>a measure of skepticism when somebody claims battle damage assessments

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<v Speaker 2>were spectacular, Like an hour or two after the operations.

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<v Speaker 1>I was watching the press conference yesterday live Tony on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Television, our special coverage, and I think I saw

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<v Speaker 1>you in the audience at the Pentagon. Were you there?

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<v Speaker 2>I was there. I had a off purple shirt in

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<v Speaker 2>the front row next to Jennifer Griffin of Fox.

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<v Speaker 1>So you heard it straight from the horse's mouth essentially

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<v Speaker 1>about the battle damage assessment, right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very nascent though it was like hours after the

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<v Speaker 2>operation he was measured. I thought his answers were good.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought Defense Secretary hexit while he gave an advertisement

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<v Speaker 2>for Trump early on, he did a good job of

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<v Speaker 2>stage managing and fielding questions.

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<v Speaker 3>So to be fair, right, like, I always wondering, like

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<v Speaker 3>how good is really our intelligence in terms of where

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<v Speaker 3>things are where they are on the ground. And I

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<v Speaker 3>also do think about Tony what's going on behind the scenes,

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<v Speaker 3>because nobody wants nuclear material floating out in the atmosphere,

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<v Speaker 3>and so I just wonder again going to kind of

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<v Speaker 3>the orchestration of the moves that we are seeing this

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<v Speaker 3>fine dance, you know, Israel, Iran, the US Iran back

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<v Speaker 3>and cutter. So, I don't know, how are you looking

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<v Speaker 3>at how all of this has kind of been carried out.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's been carried out moderate, fairly flawlessly in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the mechanic of command and control and a combined operation.

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<v Speaker 2>Your question is a good one, but I think the

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<v Speaker 2>weapon earring was informed greatly by Israeli intelligence in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of their assessment of what their weapons could do and

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<v Speaker 2>how deeply buried the hardcore nuclear enriched uranium material was,

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<v Speaker 2>and that had to all be factored into the way

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<v Speaker 2>the US calibrated its our bomb drops in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>the GPS coordinates, the aim points, how deep they were

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<v Speaker 2>going to go. I mean, the science of weaponearing. While

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<v Speaker 2>it's a black art, it's pretty precise. Within the Pentagon,

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<v Speaker 2>this is one thing they do pretty well at least

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<v Speaker 2>knowing where their weapons go, Thank goodness for GPS.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely right. What I wonder is how much was

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<v Speaker 3>the US military possibly willing to take the risk that

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<v Speaker 3>they might hit a nuclear facility and that there might

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<v Speaker 3>be you know, uranium or you know, nuclear you know

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<v Speaker 3>it unleashed into the atmosphere. Like, I'm just curious how

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<v Speaker 3>good the intel was that they knew exactly what they

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<v Speaker 3>were doing.

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<v Speaker 2>In this case, I think the intel was pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, one indication the Istefan facility was not hit

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<v Speaker 2>by massive ordinance penetrators. It apparently has more sensitive nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>materials in there. And I'm not going to act like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a total expert on this, but it was struck

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<v Speaker 2>by Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from the Arabian Sea from

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<v Speaker 2>the submarine with the Kyle Vincent group. Those don't penetrate deeply,

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<v Speaker 2>but my assessment is that they at least followed damage

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<v Speaker 2>caused by Israeli weapons and they didn't go as deep,

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<v Speaker 2>but they caused damage at that facility that could have

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<v Speaker 2>been more significant in terms of a release of nuclear materials. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to overplay what I know, but that's

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<v Speaker 2>my impression.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Tony. The GBU fifty seven's the massive ordnance penetrator

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<v Speaker 1>bombs that have the first time they've ever been used

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<v Speaker 1>in combat that were dropped on four to H and

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<v Speaker 1>other areas. Fourteen of them. Do you know how many

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<v Speaker 1>of the US actually has of these. I've seen reporting

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<v Speaker 1>that indicate that only twenty of these existed. But I

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<v Speaker 1>understand this stuff is obviously classified.

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<v Speaker 2>What do we know, Yeah, it's a handful in the twenties,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe mid twenties. I've been writing about this bomb for

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<v Speaker 2>quite a number of years, and it's very very classified.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, I've got some of the emails that were

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<v Speaker 2>leaked to me about people not wanting to talk to

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<v Speaker 2>me about the bomb. But interesting enough, there's a base.

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<v Speaker 2>There's an ammunition facility in Oklahoma, michae Alister Ammunition Base.

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<v Speaker 2>They make Army one five five rounds. Well, they're being

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<v Speaker 2>retooled this year to help build more of these mops

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<v Speaker 2>at a more rapid pace so that we can build

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<v Speaker 2>up our inventories. So deep in the heart of Oklahoma,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure they're working over time to pull together the

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<v Speaker 2>barrels that will be filled by Boeing in the coming

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<v Speaker 2>months to replenish the supply.

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<v Speaker 1>What is considered a fully replenished supply.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking in the twenties there at twenties, thirties. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>there's not like hundreds of these things.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, you know one thing that was puzzling to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Also was why the B twos were or are right

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<v Speaker 1>now based in Missouri rather than at Diego Garcia. The

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<v Speaker 1>trips wouldn't have been as long. And why why didn't

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<v Speaker 1>they land at Diego Garcia. Why did they go all

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<v Speaker 1>the way back to Missouri.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole landing sequence there. They would have been spotted

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<v Speaker 2>there at Diego Garcia. The whole point of this was

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<v Speaker 2>the show along at the long arm of the United

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<v Speaker 2>States landing. They could have done that, but then there

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<v Speaker 2>would have been there would have been pictures of it,

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<v Speaker 2>there would have been more operational security issues. I think

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<v Speaker 2>the brilliance of this one and this aspect of it

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<v Speaker 2>was the faint to the west, while those the B

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<v Speaker 2>twos that actually actually hit Aran, they took off it

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<v Speaker 2>like midnight Saturday morning. The stories about the B twos

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<v Speaker 2>going west start breaking about eleven thirty am Eastern time Saturday.

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<v Speaker 2>So this was the their verse in the Air Force's

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<v Speaker 2>version of while Operation mince Meat in the Sky, you

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<v Speaker 2>guys are off Broadway, so you know the play.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, how do you how do you fly six or

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<v Speaker 1>twelve of these from white men in Missouri at midnight

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<v Speaker 1>without people around the airport plane spotters realizing this is happening.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no planes. This is not a this is an

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<v Speaker 2>isolated base. They're not like sitting in their cars waiting

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<v Speaker 2>for these things to fly off. This is this is

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<v Speaker 2>our chound old bomber.

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<v Speaker 1>And online, and they can't be tracked online because they

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<v Speaker 1>don't use the they don't send out the signal that

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<v Speaker 1>is being tracked. That's right, irrespective.

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<v Speaker 2>Of the radar. The point here is that these plane trackers,

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<v Speaker 2>they were fulled the plan. The crews on those bombers

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<v Speaker 2>going west were talking. They wanted to be spotted, they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to be detected. That's all part of the mince

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<v Speaker 2>meat groose in this case. Going east, the bombers were

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<v Speaker 2>doing their thing. They're being radio silent and so nobody

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<v Speaker 2>could pick them up. And maybe it's a pretty smart

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<v Speaker 2>move on the air forces.

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<v Speaker 3>Part, you know, I don't know whether it's a I'm

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<v Speaker 3>just thinking a lot about the US military, the military

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<v Speaker 3>parade the President Trump had on his birthday, and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>just thinking about what just happened over the weekend. What

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<v Speaker 3>is it that kind of I think US citizens need

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<v Speaker 3>to understand about US military and our capabilities.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the capabilities that you spend like one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>sixty billion dollars a year on procurement often work. While

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<v Speaker 2>the optics of the president and his parade are disheartening,

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<v Speaker 2>the many many the weapons, the weapons that we have

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<v Speaker 2>actually have been working pretty well in the last few

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<v Speaker 2>years all over the last you know, you can fight

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<v Speaker 2>about the war, you could argue about the war the cause,

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<v Speaker 2>but the hardware has been working well. The B two,

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<v Speaker 2>you may remember twenty some aid years ago, it was

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<v Speaker 2>reviled on the myth that it can't fly in the rain,

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<v Speaker 2>it can't do an operation in the rain. Well, the

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<v Speaker 2>Air Force debunked that, you know, so two billion dollar bomber.

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<v Speaker 2>It was criticized at the time every operation that's been

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<v Speaker 2>involved in though it's pretty darn effective.

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<v Speaker 1>It's perhaps going to be continue to be in service

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<v Speaker 1>until the twenty thirties, but it's supposed to be replaced

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<v Speaker 1>by the B twenty one raidar, which had its first

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<v Speaker 1>flight in November of twenty twenty three. How close is

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<v Speaker 1>this to replacing the capabilities of the B two, and

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<v Speaker 1>what are the differences?

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<v Speaker 2>The main difference with the B twenty one, it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to control drones. Basically, it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>have wingman. It's going to be able to have unmanned wingman.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a big difference. It's stealthier. I mean, the B

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<v Speaker 2>two is decades old. Its skin has to be highly

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<v Speaker 2>touched up. It has a lot of problems with skins,

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<v Speaker 2>with the blisters, and stealthy materials, low observable materials. Maintaining

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<v Speaker 2>that the B twenty ones is quantumly better than that,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's going to be able to carry a more

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<v Speaker 2>ordinance than the B two, But it's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>a quarterback in the sky. So the Air Force says,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't know much about it because it's highly classified.

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<v Speaker 2>Every little twist of this thing they keep secret, except

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<v Speaker 2>the some of the broad cost figures and some of

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<v Speaker 2>the very measured of pictures they come out of eight

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<v Speaker 2>flight tests.

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<v Speaker 3>We love getting inside your brain. Man, Come on anytime,

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<v Speaker 3>Tony Capacio. He is Pentagon and National Security reporter at

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<v Speaker 3>Bloomberg News. He's there in our DC bureau. Do you

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<v Speaker 3>want to mention a headline crossing the Bloomberg? A divided

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<v Speaker 3>US Supreme Court lifted a judge's order that required President

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<v Speaker 3>Trump's administration to give people ten days notice and a

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<v Speaker 3>chance to object before they are deported to a so

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<v Speaker 3>called third country over three descents. The High Court granted

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<v Speaker 3>an emergency request from the administration, which said, the order

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<v Speaker 3>from a Massachusetts federal judge you serve presidential authority and

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<v Speaker 3>interfered with diplomatic efforts. Again, that is a win for

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<v Speaker 3>the Trump administration.