Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
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Speaker 1: by searching Bloomberg Global News. Well, let's talk a little bit,
Speaker 1: if we can, about the world of vaccines, Carol, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it, because you know, I want to say
Speaker 1: big picture and I feel like you talked about this
Speaker 1: with Steve Schwartzman a black Stone earlier. We've seen Jason
Speaker 1: a lot of investor intention on the drug and biotech
Speaker 1: space this year because of the coronavirus pandemic, and one
Speaker 1: stock in this space that is up roughly seventy this
Speaker 1: year is a small publicly held biotech companies based in
Speaker 1: New York City. So let's get into it with Dr
Speaker 1: Jeremy Eleven, CEO at Ovid Therapeutics. He's also chairman and
Speaker 1: he's chair of the Biotechnology Innovation Organization. He's on the
Speaker 1: phone from New York City. Jeremy, h forgive me, he's
Speaker 1: on the phone from Connecticut. Jeremy, nice to have you
Speaker 1: here with us. Um. First of all, tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about specifically what your company does, because from
Speaker 1: what I understand, you guys really focus on rare neuro
Speaker 1: neurological diseases. Carol, so good of you to have me
Speaker 1: on the on the phone. Actually, the company is developing
Speaker 1: first in class medicines to treat rare disorders of the
Speaker 1: breading in children who have no other medicines. Examples are
Speaker 1: Angelman's disease, fragile lex. These are lifelong disorders and there
Speaker 1: are absolutely no medicines for them, and we're about to
Speaker 1: deliver the results for the final phase of testing rangelment,
Speaker 1: the first and only meds that's actually clinical trial at
Speaker 1: this stage age. So that's one thing we do, and
Speaker 1: the other one is we're working with Tacata terrific partnership
Speaker 1: and Tacata and ourselves are developing emits and that we
Speaker 1: have will not only stop epileptic seizures, but also heal
Speaker 1: the brain, a whole new concept behind epilepsy. And so
Speaker 1: you know you're also the chair of the Biotechnology Innovation Organization,
Speaker 1: Dr Levin, and I do wonder beyond what you guys
Speaker 1: are working on, you have a view of the entire
Speaker 1: landscape here. And Carol mentioned this this idea that obviously
Speaker 1: all eyes are on the vaccine world. What's realistic what
Speaker 1: should we be thinking about when it comes to actually
Speaker 1: getting a vaccine for COVID nineteen Jason, Really good question.
Speaker 1: At the beginning of the year, we have there were
Speaker 1: two programs on therapeutics in the whole of the United States.
Speaker 1: Right now they're close to six hundred of which a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty plus of vaccines, another nearly two hundred
Speaker 1: medicines that are going to attack the virus. And then
Speaker 1: there's a whole series of things where we're trying current
Speaker 1: treatments to see how actually they might work current existing medicines.
Speaker 1: I have to tell you there's a lot of us
Speaker 1: something is going to come out of this now with
Speaker 1: regard to the vaccines, they're very promising signs from the
Speaker 1: company Madonna and other very promising signs out of Oxford University.
Speaker 1: But these are difficult things to develop, and until you
Speaker 1: see how they raise the immunity of individuals, you really
Speaker 1: don't know what you've got. But I'm optimistic because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of them on the on the table right now.
Speaker 1: And I'm also optimistic because we've seen good early preclinical
Speaker 1: that means before human data that suggests they have a
Speaker 1: good shot of working. So our understanding too is that
Speaker 1: it's going to be a combination of things um Dr
Speaker 1: Levinette need to be done. In other words, you're going
Speaker 1: to have a vaccine, right that's the holy growl, but
Speaker 1: you also need as you said, there's like two medicines
Speaker 1: to attack the virus for whether it's a mild case,
Speaker 1: a moderate case, or severe case. That we're gonna need
Speaker 1: all of this to get our head around it. But
Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately is it we need a vaccine to
Speaker 1: really kind of get back to normal, And then what
Speaker 1: is the realistic timeline? Is it end of the year,
Speaker 1: beginning of next year? Carol? There are no magic bullets
Speaker 1: right now quite right. You have to have a combination,
Speaker 1: and this is very similar to many other diseases. Realistically,
Speaker 1: I think we should be cautious and talk about the
Speaker 1: beginning of next year being reasonably practical. And that's all,
Speaker 1: you know, all down to one getting good results now
Speaker 1: and then too with the support which has been terrific
Speaker 1: of the FDA and manufacturing. There's are three different things,
Speaker 1: good results, FDA and good manufacturing. We can hopefully get
Speaker 1: something next year. But but can I just I just
Speaker 1: want to follow. I mean, it's not a case they're
Speaker 1: just getting the vaccine. You've gotta be able to manufacture
Speaker 1: right on a huge scale, exactly. You've got to be
Speaker 1: able to develop millions and millions of doses and then
Speaker 1: you have to distribute them. That's why we should feel
Speaker 1: really good about J and J stepping in and putting
Speaker 1: the power of their manufacturing on the table, Astra Zenica
Speaker 1: linking up with Oxford University and putting the power of
Speaker 1: their manufacturing on the table. No manufacturing, no vaccines. So
Speaker 1: what do we worry about here, Dr Levin? I mean,
Speaker 1: is the worry on the science or is the worry
Speaker 1: on the execution. Once we have the right science, it's both.
Speaker 1: Actually this is a drug discovery and drug development and
Speaker 1: vaccine develop as a non trivial UH industry. It's really tough.
Speaker 1: So in the science side, we have a good understanding
Speaker 1: about COVID nineteen because of what we learned in in
Speaker 1: FARS and previously. With a good understanding, what we don't
Speaker 1: yet know is how when you give the vaccine will
Speaker 1: you get the right kind of immune response. And and
Speaker 1: it's important to say that there is no adverse events
Speaker 1: that occur with that vaccine. That's number one. On the
Speaker 1: manufacturing side, this is scale and once you've got that vaccine.
Speaker 1: The FDA has been fantastic. The fd has really gone
Speaker 1: overboard to try and make sure that they've streamlined all
Speaker 1: the processes to get it to the manufacturing plant. But
Speaker 1: these plants are very sophisticated. They are often need to
Speaker 1: be revamped, rebuilt, and both reps of both sides of
Speaker 1: both the science and the manufacturing have to come to
Speaker 1: bear at the same time. So it's a very important
Speaker 1: set of steps that have to occur. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's what's so tricky and and any
Speaker 1: you know, the human testing, I mean, this is it's
Speaker 1: essentially a completely new vaccine. I know, I've I've heard
Speaker 1: folks talk about, you know, we're going to build on
Speaker 1: something that's already there. So I just do wonder in
Speaker 1: terms of the extensive testings. Certainly when it comes to
Speaker 1: you know, people trials, we've just got to make sure
Speaker 1: it's it's safe. So I do wonder. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not something you can rush through. Correct, that's correct, Carol.
Speaker 1: But you know this is like any medicine. You don't
Speaker 1: rush it through. The whole principle about medicine is do
Speaker 1: no harm principle number one. Number two, you have to
Speaker 1: there are sorry. You do actually have opportunity to use
Speaker 1: learning from things we have from the past. So for example,
Speaker 1: we did polio vaccines, we've done we have multiple different
Speaker 1: vaccines which we've developed. You have terrific vaccines that came
Speaker 1: out of work for for shingles, and terrific vaccines also
Speaker 1: for herpies. Really, so we know we have lots of
Speaker 1: building blocks. It's getting the right building blocks put together
Speaker 1: and then making sure that when you put them into
Speaker 1: a human being they give you the right reaction of
Speaker 1: the wrong reaction. So understanding all of this as well
Speaker 1: as you do, Dr Levin, what do we do in
Speaker 1: the meantime. I mean, we're all, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: in this phase of reopening in some form or another.
Speaker 1: But what's realistic and sensible behavior here? Jason, I've taken
Speaker 1: on the role of coordinating opening it up in my
Speaker 1: region of Connecticut, and so I really, firstfully, it's terribly
Speaker 1: important we get back to some form of economic life
Speaker 1: that people can feed their families. Very important. In my region.
Speaker 1: Twenty five percent of families are out of work. They
Speaker 1: need to get back, they need to earn their living.
Speaker 1: Number One, testing is critical. Everybody should be tested. Number two,
Speaker 1: social distancing should be maintained. Number three, we should be
Speaker 1: wearing masks. These are these ABC's. This is not something
Speaker 1: that's difficult to understand. The medicines will come, the vaccines
Speaker 1: will come. But in the meantime, being responsible is about
Speaker 1: the most important thing one can do here. But starting
Speaker 1: with testing, distancing, and in addition to that, making sure
Speaker 1: that you've got your mask and when you will And
Speaker 1: this is the one that I find baffling is because
Speaker 1: Jason and I've had a lot of folks like yourself
Speaker 1: from the pharmaceutical, biotech and certainly the medical community that
Speaker 1: it's all about testing and tracing and that everyone should
Speaker 1: be tested, and that we're still not moving forward on that,
Speaker 1: and is it just a case we don't have the tests? Um,
Speaker 1: I know. We talked with Bill Hazelstein, Um hazel Hazeltine,
Speaker 1: excuse me, and he talked about the importance of really
Speaker 1: almost having an organization on the scale of like a
Speaker 1: military so that you could you have, you know, uniform procedures.
Speaker 1: Is that what's holding us back? Bill, Bill is correct,
Speaker 1: you need to have an organized approach. But just imagine, Carol,
Speaker 1: if you had a kid and that child is in
Speaker 1: preschool and one of the kids tested positive let's say,
Speaker 1: for example, strep throat, you'd want everybody in that class
Speaker 1: tested everyone. There's no this is not a strange thing
Speaker 1: to do. This is normal. If you had kids with measles,
Speaker 1: you'd want everybody isolated. This is not unusual. So those right,
Speaker 1: this needs a national organization. The virus doesn't know borders you.
Speaker 1: It can hop on a plane and fly from A
Speaker 1: to B as fast as you can imagine. But if
Speaker 1: you test people, if you do the right thing and
Speaker 1: have an organized approach, we can definitely do this all right, Well,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate your time and look forward to catching
Speaker 1: up with you as this story develops, because we know
Speaker 1: it will. Dr Jeremy Levin is the CEO and chairman
Speaker 1: of of the Therapeutics. He's also the chair of the
Speaker 1: Biotechnology Innovation Organization. He's the editor of the newly released
Speaker 1: Biotechnology in the Time of COVID nineteen Commentaries from the
Speaker 1: front Line that takes a look at forty seven biotech
Speaker 1: stars who have moved to fighting this disease, Carol. And
Speaker 1: we have seen that this is a concerted effort, certainly
Speaker 1: across the world. I mean, even the idea of you
Speaker 1: know what Steve Schwartzmann said, we're not going to go
Speaker 1: oh for one thirty here. Yeah, I think it makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. And as he said, it's a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty plus efforts going just for a vaccine,
Speaker 1: and you've got two hundred medicines that are being pursued
Speaker 1: just to attack the virus at different levels. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's this kind of multi tiered level, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a multi tiered plan that needs to get us ahead
Speaker 1: of the virus. I think what's interesting as though, as
Speaker 1: he said, it comes down to everyone needs to be tested,
Speaker 1: you've got to wear masks, and you have to do
Speaker 1: social distancing. It's really so simple. Yet I find it
Speaker 1: baffling that. I mean, it doesn't seem to be it
Speaker 1: is to you and me. But I will tell you
Speaker 1: um that you know, just the conversations I've been having
Speaker 1: of late, even around my neighborhood, I think run your neighborhood.
Speaker 1: You know, we saw it this weekend. There's conflict of
Speaker 1: people like like do I really have to work? Like
Speaker 1: you know, it's like fighting fighting over the mask stuff,
Speaker 1: and it's just really tough, right yeah, And and I
Speaker 1: think one of the issues is that, you know, and
Speaker 1: and Steve Schwartz been alluded to this in our conversation.
Speaker 1: He said, this is harder in democracies, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: which which is actually a very precise and correct point
Speaker 1: in this sense that the places where this has been
Speaker 1: in many ways just locked down or maybe not so democratic.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you've seen it in Germany, You've
Speaker 1: seen it in the UK where people just get on
Speaker 1: with it. They say, Okay, I gotta wear masks. I'm
Speaker 1: going to do that. But that's not what we've seen
Speaker 1: across the US. This is no judgment. This is just
Speaker 1: an observation that you have people essentially making a political
Speaker 1: statement or somehow deciding that wearing a mask symbolizes something,
Speaker 1: and in reality, what wear a mask symbolizes is that
Speaker 1: you give a hoot about other people and you want
Speaker 1: the world to be healthy, right exactly. Meantime, you've got
Speaker 1: the number of new cases around the globe reaching a record,
Speaker 1: and we're seeing a lot of new cases in Latin
Speaker 1: America that's called According to the World Health Organization, US
Speaker 1: Florida's new infections rose to another high, so we're seeing
Speaker 1: those cases go up. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right,
Speaker 1: you are listening to Bloomberg Business Week and Carol Masser.
Speaker 1: What a weekend in the political world. I mean it
Speaker 1: started Friday night basically within an hour of us getting
Speaker 1: off of air, maybe a little bit later. Actually it's
Speaker 1: like nine o'clock. You know. I just happened to be
Speaker 1: like reading or doing whatever, catching up on stuff, and
Speaker 1: all these news alerts start coming out about the U S.
Speaker 1: Attorney in the Southern District of New York getting fired.
Speaker 1: Then we go into the weekend. Wait, he resigned. No,
Speaker 1: I didn't resign, Gait, Now we got fired, No, I didn't.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to leave. I don't want
Speaker 1: another job at Justice. It's really sort of amazing. Then
Speaker 1: obviously a weekend Chuck Field of the President in Tulsa,
Speaker 1: the big interview that John Bolton gave to ABC about
Speaker 1: his new book, Let's Make Sense of all of It
Speaker 1: with Josh winn Grove, he is White House correspondent for Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone. All right, Josh, we look
Speaker 1: to you to help us separate the signal from the
Speaker 1: noise here. What do we need to be thinking about
Speaker 1: as this work week begins when it comes to the
Speaker 1: political world. Well, I mean the president is looking for
Speaker 1: ways to turn it around. I think that's what we're
Speaker 1: sort of informing everything, and so he wants loyalists as
Speaker 1: part of that. I think that's what we saw with
Speaker 1: the sort of Friday night moves and really remarkable to
Speaker 1: and pro you know, the guy initially refusing to go
Speaker 1: and then saying you would go, and bar changing who
Speaker 1: we wanted to a point in the interim, and now
Speaker 1: there's some reporting from Bloomberg that the SEC chairman may
Speaker 1: not even want this thing, given you know, all the
Speaker 1: pends of the last seventy two hours. So you know
Speaker 1: that one is bubbling, uh, you know, on its own.
Speaker 1: The President is also wanting to get out about more
Speaker 1: in contrast himself with Joe Biden. So we're seeing a
Speaker 1: lot of interviews today he's doing with regional media. But
Speaker 1: he also in the in these situations doubles down on
Speaker 1: stuff that he's done before. For instance, we are seeing
Speaker 1: some headlines move on the terminal right now about restrictions
Speaker 1: on desa issuance sort of America first extension. That would
Speaker 1: be bad news for people who are trying to immigrate
Speaker 1: to the US, or I should say, at least work
Speaker 1: in the US. Do you think the book was non
Speaker 1: immigrant visas? Anyway, He, like I said, back to the
Speaker 1: playbook all over again, you know, doubling down on all
Speaker 1: that media. So that's that's where we're at. The band
Speaker 1: is back together. This the band is back together, and
Speaker 1: this is no doubt about it. An individual who likes campaigning,
Speaker 1: we know that he's doing it. Though this year Um
Speaker 1: Josh with the backdrop of Um John Bolton's new book.
Speaker 1: It's um you know, and we just want to play
Speaker 1: a little snip because we knew John Bolton spoke with
Speaker 1: ABC over the weekend and he talked about many things,
Speaker 1: but he also talked about President Trump's pattern looking an
Speaker 1: obstruction of justice as a way of life. Let's get
Speaker 1: into that. To use the phrase in the book, that
Speaker 1: Trump's pattern looked like obstruction of justice as a way
Speaker 1: of life, which we couldn't accept obstruction of justice as
Speaker 1: a way of life. Look, these were things that I
Speaker 1: could see some evidence of, and they bothered me greatly.
Speaker 1: I talked to the Attorney General about them. I talked
Speaker 1: to the Council to the President about them. I've talked
Speaker 1: to other members of the cabinet about them, um and
Speaker 1: relayed my concerns, and they were very much on my mind.
Speaker 1: There really isn't any guiding principle that I was able
Speaker 1: to discern other than what's good for Donald Trump's reelection. Okay,
Speaker 1: so focus of course, that's John Bolton, Trump's former national
Speaker 1: security advisor. President Trump's former national security advisor, Josh. You know,
Speaker 1: so much has already been reported about what's in that book.
Speaker 1: I do wonder is there something of substance that, as
Speaker 1: an American citizen, as an American voter who's going to
Speaker 1: go to the polls in November, that we really should
Speaker 1: be paying a lot of attend into Well. I think
Speaker 1: that his line on everything being through a reelected should
Speaker 1: lands is a big one. But I think the thing
Speaker 1: that strikes me about it is Bolton is not the
Speaker 1: first to write a book, and he's certainly not the
Speaker 1: first Trump administration to write some sort of tell hell
Speaker 1: all memoir. He is the highest ranking one, though, uh.
Speaker 1: And you now got a fairly high profile group of
Speaker 1: folks who are former senior figures in the president's own
Speaker 1: administration who've been critical about him in the last you know,
Speaker 1: weeks or months. That includes Mr Bolton, of course, but
Speaker 1: also Jimattics and others. And so I think that is
Speaker 1: going to cause some consternation among Republicans. A little bit
Speaker 1: that said, we've talked about this stuff before tends to
Speaker 1: blow over. The Senate doesn't look particularly you know a
Speaker 1: gast or the president lately, and you know a lot
Speaker 1: of them just want to keep the majority. So you know,
Speaker 1: we'll see, we'll see. I will say, though, the enthusiasm
Speaker 1: Right now, the path forward is a little unclear because
Speaker 1: we know the president, how did they huge rally on Saturday.
Speaker 1: The attendance was way less than he expected. He's reportedly
Speaker 1: upset about that. The White House is insisting that he
Speaker 1: was not upset about that, And so we don't really
Speaker 1: know what they're going to do going forward on this
Speaker 1: to try to change the channel. Is it a sign
Speaker 1: of waiting support though among his supporters or is it
Speaker 1: just poles would indicate that for sure? For sure, I
Speaker 1: mean there's there's there's not been a lot of good polls.
Speaker 1: What they're saying. That's the positive stands they're putting on it.
Speaker 1: Is it in swing states? And not naturally in swing states?
Speaker 1: The president is still competitive against the defined Joe Biden,
Speaker 1: and that means that they're going to throw everything at
Speaker 1: the wall to try to make voters think that Joe
Speaker 1: Biden is the worst choice. Most people in the president's
Speaker 1: orbit believe that if the president the election is about
Speaker 1: Biden versus Trump, Trump can pull it off. But if
Speaker 1: they think it's a referendum on Trump and his performance,
Speaker 1: that is a lot more problematic for the president. And
Speaker 1: so what do we look for now is sort of
Speaker 1: the next milestones for the president. He's got another rally
Speaker 1: I believe coming up been in Arizona. Is that tomorrow, Josh?
Speaker 1: I mean, is that another? Is that sort of a
Speaker 1: reset to the reset? It's not a rally per se,
Speaker 1: but he is traveling to Arizona. I think we're going
Speaker 1: to continue to see him go out and about. Arizona
Speaker 1: presents an interest in one because as you know, it
Speaker 1: is arguably the biggest hot spot right now in terms
Speaker 1: of virus cases that they have a huge outbreak going
Speaker 1: on right there, and the President is trying to press
Speaker 1: ahead and kind of pretend that the virus is gone.
Speaker 1: You know that the death rates is what is the
Speaker 1: new goalposts that they go by or lower. But the
Speaker 1: America on Saturday recorded like thirty four thousand new cases.
Speaker 1: That's the highest total in seven weeks. So you know,
Speaker 1: we're not out of this. The President might have to
Speaker 1: switch gears and kind of acknowledge we're not out of this.
Speaker 1: And one way to do that is to get people
Speaker 1: to act like we still have a pandemic and you know,
Speaker 1: wear masks and stuff. But this white hasn't shown no
Speaker 1: interest in doing that. In fact, today they pulled down
Speaker 1: a tent the screen media at the White Hos you
Speaker 1: no longer have your temperature checked when you walk into
Speaker 1: the White Kidding. Wow, that's a very interesting inside dish.
Speaker 1: All right, Josh wynd Grove, thank you so much, White
Speaker 1: House correspondent for Bloomberg joining us on the phone. So
Speaker 1: much to keep an eye on. And we will continue
Speaker 1: to carol. When it comes to the world of policy
Speaker 1: and politics. We didn't even get to talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: what may happen with the police reform bills that are
Speaker 1: sort of making their way through the Congress as well.
Speaker 1: It's such a conflict though right about you know, we
Speaker 1: keep talking about this kind of the tensions of you know,
Speaker 1: reopening versus spikes of cases and and how do we
Speaker 1: figure this one out? All right, we'll continue to follow,
Speaker 1: of course we will. You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Well,
Speaker 1: let's continue our conversation about economics China, things we've touched
Speaker 1: on already. Andy Brown, editorial director for Bloomberg New Economy,
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from New Hampshire. This was
Speaker 1: a topic that came up, not surprisingly Andy, in my
Speaker 1: conversation with Steve Schwartzman earlier. We're going to hear a
Speaker 1: bit of about that later on. The US China relationship
Speaker 1: is complicated. The relationship, but when President Trump and President
Speaker 1: She complicated or not depending on your perspective. And certainly
Speaker 1: John Bolton has a hot take related to that, and
Speaker 1: I would say broke some news, it feels like in
Speaker 1: his book and in his subsequent interview. You take that
Speaker 1: on in your latest column talking about Beijing wanting another
Speaker 1: Trump term. Tell us about what you heard and read
Speaker 1: and what it may mean. Yeah, So, I mean this
Speaker 1: book by b John Bolton is pretty damning. Um. A
Speaker 1: big pot of of Trump's re election strategy has been
Speaker 1: tough on It was going to be tough on China. Um.
Speaker 1: He and and Joe Biden, We're going to compete to
Speaker 1: see who could be toughest. And it turns out if
Speaker 1: the allegations and John Bolton's book book true, Um, Trump
Speaker 1: was an absolute pushover for Shi Jim Pak. It's just fascinating.
Speaker 1: So so okay, so what does China want at this point?
Speaker 1: Because part of me seems to think and I think
Speaker 1: you read about this, Andy, is that you know some
Speaker 1: of this turmoil that President Trump is creating in the
Speaker 1: world and alienating of former US allies or US allies
Speaker 1: to some extent, China like some of that, right, so
Speaker 1: you know, so when when when China looks outwards um
Speaker 1: across the Western Pacific, what they see is a string
Speaker 1: of US alliances stretching from South Korea, through Japan all
Speaker 1: the way down to Australia and through the Chinese leadership.
Speaker 1: This is containment. It's there to hem China in to
Speaker 1: frustrate its ambitions to hold back its military um outreach UM,
Speaker 1: to to bottle up its bluewater navy and its submarine fleet.
Speaker 1: They want to weaken the alliance structure and in that
Speaker 1: this is their job number one. Uh and from the
Speaker 1: epispey diverything and and uh uh you know, reporting from
Speaker 1: Beijing bureau bears this out um. The Chinese leadership think
Speaker 1: that Trump has done so much to weaken uh, this
Speaker 1: alliance system by offending US allies, by engaging in trade
Speaker 1: disputes with them, by nicol and diming them on you know,
Speaker 1: who's going to pay for US forces based in South
Speaker 1: Korea and Japan, that he's weaking, that he's undermining the
Speaker 1: US alliance system. And to them that overrides all the
Speaker 1: concerns that they may have about how they're being treated
Speaker 1: on trade and investment and technology. So they want to
Speaker 1: see another four years of Trump. So was this how
Speaker 1: it was going to be all along Andy, that this
Speaker 1: was going to be sort of the alliance. How have
Speaker 1: you seen this evolve and develop over the Trump presidency? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, the the the the approach to China that
Speaker 1: previous administrations had had taken was to assume that taking
Speaker 1: on unfair Chinese trade practices and investment practices doing something
Speaker 1: to roll back the um, you know, state capitalism in China.
Speaker 1: Leveling the playing field required a multilateral approach that no
Speaker 1: single country could do it on its own. Hence, this approach,
Speaker 1: which is embodied in the Trans Specific Partnership, which was
Speaker 1: for you know, a bunch of like minded countries to
Speaker 1: get together and to set high level trade standards. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, enforced China in a sense to to live
Speaker 1: up to these higher standards. UM. And the first thing
Speaker 1: he did when he came to office, of course, he
Speaker 1: he hates multilateral trading relationships. He thinks that that you know,
Speaker 1: they have they have they exist, Uh, in order to
Speaker 1: disadvantage the United States as he pulled he pulled out
Speaker 1: of that, and he's been pulling out, of course of
Speaker 1: international arrangements ever since, from you know, climate change to
Speaker 1: human rights and so on, and and and lastly of
Speaker 1: course defunding the Double h O in the middle of
Speaker 1: that pandemic. You know what I find interesting we just
Speaker 1: have about a minute left, Andy, is that, you know,
Speaker 1: if you believe everything that John Bolton puts in his book,
Speaker 1: I guess the biggest thing, certainly with President Trump when
Speaker 1: it comes to a lot of issues, but China in particular,
Speaker 1: it sounds like what he says, maybe perhaps behind closed
Speaker 1: doors with President Jim Paying, versus what he says publicly
Speaker 1: are often two different things. Yeah, I mean that's uh
Speaker 1: that that that's right. And and you know, one of
Speaker 1: the most damning revelations of this book was with him
Speaker 1: huddled with she Jim Paying, with nobody listening except the interpreters,
Speaker 1: and telling She Jim Paying that building the internment camps
Speaker 1: in in St. John which holds up to a million
Speaker 1: or more we a Muslims, was quote exactly the right
Speaker 1: thing to do. Um. You know, and and and you
Speaker 1: know what the Bolton's points throughout all this is that
Speaker 1: essentially Trump was was ready to give away all in
Speaker 1: all American interests around national security, around human rights in
Speaker 1: order to secure this trading agreement with China. In other woods,
Speaker 1: everything for him was transactional, right, And I think it's
Speaker 1: something important. You know, we were talking with josh Um
Speaker 1: wind Grove earlier at Bloomberg News about you know, what
Speaker 1: do we need to know about Bolton's book as voters
Speaker 1: and as Americans? And that I think what Andy just
Speaker 1: pointed out is certainly a big point to take away
Speaker 1: from all of this. Andy Brown always loved checking in
Speaker 1: with you. Andy is of course, editorial director of Bloomberg
Speaker 1: New Economy on the phone in New Hampshire. Brother mac
Speaker 1: a journal but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no, honey, please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the right gravels me. I want to drive,
Speaker 1: just drive the questions trying the drive to the globe.
Speaker 1: Thanks well drying us radio. It is time for the
Speaker 1: drive to the close. Jim Lowell is back with us,
Speaker 1: his chief investment officer at Advisor Investments are based in Newton,
Speaker 1: Massachuset sits and we find him on the phone on
Speaker 1: this mounton day and they've got over five billion dollars
Speaker 1: in assets under management. Hey Jim, nice to have you
Speaker 1: back with us. How are you. I am doing fine.
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. And I know you're doing well
Speaker 1: because I listened to your show in regular basis. Well,
Speaker 1: that's nice to hear. We get a little crazy sometimes
Speaker 1: working from home can do that. So which camp do
Speaker 1: you think makes more sense? I mean, it's just I
Speaker 1: feel like there's such a struggle in the markets right now.
Speaker 1: There's a focus on the reopening and maybe some of
Speaker 1: the you know, green shoots, dare I say, of things
Speaker 1: that start to sound like we're moving to reopen and
Speaker 1: are reopening, and then there's those spike in cases, and
Speaker 1: I do wonder how that slows down any economic momentum
Speaker 1: that we ultimately have right now. Well, it clearly hasn't
Speaker 1: done so yet, but it absolutely has greater than sort
Speaker 1: of a moderate probability to do so. If we see
Speaker 1: reopenings trigger enough of a second wave to then spike
Speaker 1: up the number of reclosing, not just in terms of
Speaker 1: ones e two the restaurants, but in terms of stage
Speaker 1: taking necessary action that could that could unsettle the market
Speaker 1: for a little bit, But overall, the market learned a
Speaker 1: very difficult, but very swift lesson which wound up by
Speaker 1: March twenty three. Feeling is if the world really had
Speaker 1: had come to a standfill in the world head, but
Speaker 1: the market got up and ran, and really it's been
Speaker 1: running ever since. So we think this is a perfect
Speaker 1: time to stay diversified, certainly disciplined. Um, we definitely think
Speaker 1: that the medical data will trump any sort of economic
Speaker 1: data earning data in the in the very near term.
Speaker 1: But there again, we've already seen some good made data,
Speaker 1: some tentative June data that suggests that we've made moving
Speaker 1: from the worst of times too at least less worse ones,
Speaker 1: and so long of the second wave isn't dramatically bigger
Speaker 1: than the first. I think investors will do well to
Speaker 1: hold on to their best ideas through through thickens an
Speaker 1: emotional headlines and Jim, I mean, we are starting to
Speaker 1: see this pattern emerge, it feels like, and we're starting
Speaker 1: to see it here in the Tristate area, and I
Speaker 1: dare so you're starting to see it up in Boston
Speaker 1: and the Boston area as well. Of people are just
Speaker 1: candidly tired of being cooped up. They want to get
Speaker 1: out and there's a whole theory of just calculated risk
Speaker 1: in many ways that people are able to are willing,
Speaker 1: I guess to embrace in order to get on with it.
Speaker 1: And it feels like that's one of the things that
Speaker 1: are investors are ultimately betting on. Well, that's a excellent
Speaker 1: points and the behavioral aspects to the ways of which
Speaker 1: investors and traders moved in the markets and moved the
Speaker 1: markets is certainly always a fascinating topic clearly playing out here.
Speaker 1: I think absolutely right. Uh, you know, as human beings,
Speaker 1: we're not designed to stay in panic mode for all
Speaker 1: that long. And I would say that what has happened
Speaker 1: for the last two and a half months is that
Speaker 1: we did a very good job in the in the
Speaker 1: in the front weeks, in the front months. But now
Speaker 1: I think people are willing to risk maybe even getting sick.
Speaker 1: They are focused on I think the need to uh
Speaker 1: to fight for their freedom more than perhaps a flight
Speaker 1: from the virus. The problem is the virus hasn't gone
Speaker 1: anywhere and is of course going to come back, likely
Speaker 1: with a vengeance and flue season. So this is this
Speaker 1: is not an issue that's going to go away anytime soon.
Speaker 1: But man it's awfully hard to stay indoors when the
Speaker 1: sun is shining and the beaches beckoning. Well, and it's
Speaker 1: interesting because we had a story on the on the
Speaker 1: terminal today, Jim that just talk about how the stay
Speaker 1: at home trades have come roaring back. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: looking at a name since you listen to us, you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about it a lot, Peloton. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think this stock is trading at its highest level. I mean,
Speaker 1: and it's had quite a bump, you know, And this
Speaker 1: is certainly one of those names that has benefited from
Speaker 1: everybody being at home. And not everybody can afford a Peloton,
Speaker 1: but a lot of folks who are working from home
Speaker 1: can and as they want to work out, they're embracing that.
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, Peloton increasingly also speaking of
Speaker 1: embracing embracing kind of an online platform at the same
Speaker 1: time and expanding their audience. And I do wonder whether
Speaker 1: it's you know, Netflix or Zoom or Peloton Um, you know,
Speaker 1: or Spotify or dropped like, I don't know, is there
Speaker 1: some that you're seeing that makes sense to you know,
Speaker 1: kind of trend into absolutely and you hit the nail
Speaker 1: on the head. It is technology and technology that's adaptive
Speaker 1: and capable of being adopted by a greater cadre of
Speaker 1: the workforce, which is going to be staying at home,
Speaker 1: if not full time, at least part time. I think
Speaker 1: for years to come in certain segments of the workforce
Speaker 1: are likely to stay back at home more than others,
Speaker 1: especially as you go up to the age chain. By
Speaker 1: myself from sixty, I'm very happy to be here at
Speaker 1: home with all of my screens, all of my Zoom meetings.
Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever worked harget Advisor investments, uh.
Speaker 1: In part thanks to Zoom, we are really looking at
Speaker 1: the market, analyzing research and engaging with our clients all
Speaker 1: most seven days a week. So I think it has
Speaker 1: unleashed this virus has unleashed almost an exponential growth in
Speaker 1: terms of productivity for those whose businesses can in fact
Speaker 1: be enhanced by by technology. And so what do you
Speaker 1: worry about the most here, Jim, as we go through
Speaker 1: the summer. Is it the second wave or a continuing
Speaker 1: first wave? Is it the medical side? What? What are
Speaker 1: the things that you think could disrupt what seems to
Speaker 1: be a fairly consistent trend here. So what I would
Speaker 1: say to that is, I'm almost always worried about a
Speaker 1: whole range of things. The coronavirus, second wave blue season
Speaker 1: clearly part and parts all of our concerns. We also
Speaker 1: know that this is going to be a very contentious
Speaker 1: election year uh and as we get closer to November,
Speaker 1: the fear factor of those headlines will clearly have a
Speaker 1: say on daily momentum and on the flip side of
Speaker 1: the elections. No matter who wins, you could see some
Speaker 1: fairly significant trading to the to the upward, down side,
Speaker 1: depending upon how things play out. Overall, we think the
Speaker 1: things that have been strong so far this year are
Speaker 1: likely to remain relatively strong, even though on the technology side,
Speaker 1: valuation concerns maybe beginning to pepper that pot that. Nevertheless,
Speaker 1: we think technology, we think healthcare. We think if we
Speaker 1: look in terms of the bond market and cash, we
Speaker 1: like total bonds, especially total bond ETFs that are actively managed.
Speaker 1: There are a few out there that are quite good. Um.
Speaker 1: But we also think cash reserves continues to play a
Speaker 1: beautiful role. We we always say there are three lives
Speaker 1: to the investment school stock funds cash, but it always
Speaker 1: takes the crisis to remind us about cash. Is that
Speaker 1: third legs. It's interesting you talked about the elections. Are
Speaker 1: Vince Sagnarella, who you know, is often a frequent voice
Speaker 1: on our show, and he said he put out a
Speaker 1: story there with the Macro Squawk and and just said
Speaker 1: that the Biden fear their markets were a little concerned
Speaker 1: about Joe Biden being president. But it seems like UH
Speaker 1: investors are getting over that, and that they're also knowing
Speaker 1: that Trump's tweets are having less influence on the trade.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of interesting. So they're looking at it,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of politically what's influencing the markets.
Speaker 1: Jim Lowell, thank you so much. I'm really a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Chief investment officer at Advisor Investments five billion over five
Speaker 1: billion in assets under management, on the phone from Newton, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Blueberg Business Week. Download
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