WEBVTT - The Race for a COVID-19 Vaccine 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.240 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, Ol Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.199 by searching Bloomberg Global News. Well, let's talk a little bit, 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.640 if we can, about the world of vaccines, Carol, Yeah, 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:40.520 let's do it, because you know, I want to say 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:42.320 big picture and I feel like you talked about this 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.680 with Steve Schwartzman a black Stone earlier. We've seen Jason 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.479 a lot of investor intention on the drug and biotech 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.159 space this year because of the coronavirus pandemic, and one 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.240 stock in this space that is up roughly seventy this 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.480 year is a small publicly held biotech companies based in 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.240 New York City. So let's get into it with Dr 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:05.480 Jeremy Eleven, CEO at Ovid Therapeutics. He's also chairman and 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.880 he's chair of the Biotechnology Innovation Organization. He's on the 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:12.280 phone from New York City. Jeremy, h forgive me, he's 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.600 on the phone from Connecticut. Jeremy, nice to have you 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.560 here with us. Um. First of all, tell us a 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.800 little bit about specifically what your company does, because from 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.280 what I understand, you guys really focus on rare neuro 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:28.560 neurological diseases. Carol, so good of you to have me 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:33.000 on the on the phone. Actually, the company is developing 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:37.640 first in class medicines to treat rare disorders of the 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:42.240 breading in children who have no other medicines. Examples are 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.880 Angelman's disease, fragile lex. These are lifelong disorders and there 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.520 are absolutely no medicines for them, and we're about to 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:56.040 deliver the results for the final phase of testing rangelment, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.600 the first and only meds that's actually clinical trial at 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.000 this stage age. So that's one thing we do, and 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:06.080 the other one is we're working with Tacata terrific partnership 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.760 and Tacata and ourselves are developing emits and that we 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:13.120 have will not only stop epileptic seizures, but also heal 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:18.040 the brain, a whole new concept behind epilepsy. And so 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.200 you know you're also the chair of the Biotechnology Innovation Organization, 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.919 Dr Levin, and I do wonder beyond what you guys 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.160 are working on, you have a view of the entire 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.440 landscape here. And Carol mentioned this this idea that obviously 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.080 all eyes are on the vaccine world. What's realistic what 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.639 should we be thinking about when it comes to actually 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:44.480 getting a vaccine for COVID nineteen Jason, Really good question. 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:46.639 At the beginning of the year, we have there were 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.920 two programs on therapeutics in the whole of the United States. 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.920 Right now they're close to six hundred of which a 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.720 hundred and fifty plus of vaccines, another nearly two hundred 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:05.040 medicines that are going to attack the virus. And then 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:08.240 there's a whole series of things where we're trying current 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.800 treatments to see how actually they might work current existing medicines. 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:15.960 I have to tell you there's a lot of us 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.480 something is going to come out of this now with 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.840 regard to the vaccines, they're very promising signs from the 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:27.799 company Madonna and other very promising signs out of Oxford University. 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:32.640 But these are difficult things to develop, and until you 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:37.440 see how they raise the immunity of individuals, you really 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.120 don't know what you've got. But I'm optimistic because there's 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.160 a lot of them on the on the table right now. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.160 And I'm also optimistic because we've seen good early preclinical 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.760 that means before human data that suggests they have a 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.000 good shot of working. So our understanding too is that 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.200 it's going to be a combination of things um Dr 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:01.040 Levinette need to be done. In other words, you're going 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.640 to have a vaccine, right that's the holy growl, but 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.480 you also need as you said, there's like two medicines 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.480 to attack the virus for whether it's a mild case, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.640 a moderate case, or severe case. That we're gonna need 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.120 all of this to get our head around it. But 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.240 I mean, ultimately is it we need a vaccine to 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.359 really kind of get back to normal, And then what 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.880 is the realistic timeline? Is it end of the year, 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:26.440 beginning of next year? Carol? There are no magic bullets 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:30.240 right now quite right. You have to have a combination, 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:35.279 and this is very similar to many other diseases. Realistically, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.120 I think we should be cautious and talk about the 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.920 beginning of next year being reasonably practical. And that's all, 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.800 you know, all down to one getting good results now 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.960 and then too with the support which has been terrific 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.760 of the FDA and manufacturing. There's are three different things, 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:58.000 good results, FDA and good manufacturing. We can hopefully get 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.680 something next year. But but can I just I just 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.360 want to follow. I mean, it's not a case they're 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.360 just getting the vaccine. You've gotta be able to manufacture 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.479 right on a huge scale, exactly. You've got to be 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.120 able to develop millions and millions of doses and then 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.920 you have to distribute them. That's why we should feel 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.680 really good about J and J stepping in and putting 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.160 the power of their manufacturing on the table, Astra Zenica 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.080 linking up with Oxford University and putting the power of 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:31.240 their manufacturing on the table. No manufacturing, no vaccines. So 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.960 what do we worry about here, Dr Levin? I mean, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.599 is the worry on the science or is the worry 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:42.000 on the execution. Once we have the right science, it's both. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.040 Actually this is a drug discovery and drug development and 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:50.279 vaccine develop as a non trivial UH industry. It's really tough. 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.159 So in the science side, we have a good understanding 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:58.520 about COVID nineteen because of what we learned in in 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.840 FARS and previously. With a good understanding, what we don't 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.839 yet know is how when you give the vaccine will 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.080 you get the right kind of immune response. And and 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.400 it's important to say that there is no adverse events 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.880 that occur with that vaccine. That's number one. On the 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:20.520 manufacturing side, this is scale and once you've got that vaccine. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.880 The FDA has been fantastic. The fd has really gone 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.039 overboard to try and make sure that they've streamlined all 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.279 the processes to get it to the manufacturing plant. But 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:35.359 these plants are very sophisticated. They are often need to 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.839 be revamped, rebuilt, and both reps of both sides of 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.359 both the science and the manufacturing have to come to 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.200 bear at the same time. So it's a very important 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:50.279 set of steps that have to occur. Yeah, I mean 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.880 that's I mean, that's what's so tricky and and any 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.479 you know, the human testing, I mean, this is it's 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.560 essentially a completely new vaccine. I know, I've I've heard 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.599 folks talk about, you know, we're going to build on 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.320 something that's already there. So I just do wonder in 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.000 terms of the extensive testings. Certainly when it comes to 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:09.800 you know, people trials, we've just got to make sure 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.760 it's it's safe. So I do wonder. You know, it's 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:18.400 not something you can rush through. Correct, that's correct, Carol. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:20.880 But you know this is like any medicine. You don't 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.400 rush it through. The whole principle about medicine is do 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:28.760 no harm principle number one. Number two, you have to 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.280 there are sorry. You do actually have opportunity to use 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.760 learning from things we have from the past. So for example, 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.160 we did polio vaccines, we've done we have multiple different 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:45.360 vaccines which we've developed. You have terrific vaccines that came 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:50.600 out of work for for shingles, and terrific vaccines also 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.800 for herpies. Really, so we know we have lots of 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.200 building blocks. It's getting the right building blocks put together 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.560 and then making sure that when you put them into 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.920 a human being they give you the right reaction of 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.480 the wrong reaction. So understanding all of this as well 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.440 as you do, Dr Levin, what do we do in 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.880 the meantime. I mean, we're all, you know, sort of 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.760 in this phase of reopening in some form or another. 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:21.679 But what's realistic and sensible behavior here? Jason, I've taken 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.360 on the role of coordinating opening it up in my 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.760 region of Connecticut, and so I really, firstfully, it's terribly 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.720 important we get back to some form of economic life 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.760 that people can feed their families. Very important. In my region. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.120 Twenty five percent of families are out of work. They 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.079 need to get back, they need to earn their living. 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:47.200 Number One, testing is critical. Everybody should be tested. Number two, 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.880 social distancing should be maintained. Number three, we should be 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:54.520 wearing masks. These are these ABC's. This is not something 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.559 that's difficult to understand. The medicines will come, the vaccines 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.960 will come. But in the meantime, being responsible is about 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.600 the most important thing one can do here. But starting 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:10.160 with testing, distancing, and in addition to that, making sure 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.840 that you've got your mask and when you will And 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.560 this is the one that I find baffling is because 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.840 Jason and I've had a lot of folks like yourself 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:22.200 from the pharmaceutical, biotech and certainly the medical community that 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.520 it's all about testing and tracing and that everyone should 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:30.079 be tested, and that we're still not moving forward on that, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.679 and is it just a case we don't have the tests? Um, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.720 I know. We talked with Bill Hazelstein, Um hazel Hazeltine, 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.280 excuse me, and he talked about the importance of really 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.160 almost having an organization on the scale of like a 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:46.840 military so that you could you have, you know, uniform procedures. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:52.120 Is that what's holding us back? Bill, Bill is correct, 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.839 you need to have an organized approach. But just imagine, Carol, 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.320 if you had a kid and that child is in 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.840 preschool and one of the kids tested positive let's say, 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.920 for example, strep throat, you'd want everybody in that class 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.559 tested everyone. There's no this is not a strange thing 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.840 to do. This is normal. If you had kids with measles, 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:17.800 you'd want everybody isolated. This is not unusual. So those right, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:23.240 this needs a national organization. The virus doesn't know borders you. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.360 It can hop on a plane and fly from A 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.240 to B as fast as you can imagine. But if 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.480 you test people, if you do the right thing and 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:36.240 have an organized approach, we can definitely do this all right, Well, 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.560 we really appreciate your time and look forward to catching 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.040 up with you as this story develops, because we know 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.680 it will. Dr Jeremy Levin is the CEO and chairman 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.960 of of the Therapeutics. He's also the chair of the 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.840 Biotechnology Innovation Organization. He's the editor of the newly released 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.000 Biotechnology in the Time of COVID nineteen Commentaries from the 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:57.000 front Line that takes a look at forty seven biotech 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:01.880 stars who have moved to fighting this disease, Carol. And 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:06.240 we have seen that this is a concerted effort, certainly 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.599 across the world. I mean, even the idea of you 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.480 know what Steve Schwartzmann said, we're not going to go 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.920 oh for one thirty here. Yeah, I think it makes 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:15.400 a lot of sense. And as he said, it's a 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.120 hundred and fifty plus efforts going just for a vaccine, 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.000 and you've got two hundred medicines that are being pursued 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.680 just to attack the virus at different levels. So you know, 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.400 it's this kind of multi tiered level, uh, you know, 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.400 a multi tiered plan that needs to get us ahead 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.120 of the virus. I think what's interesting as though, as 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.280 he said, it comes down to everyone needs to be tested, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:35.920 you've got to wear masks, and you have to do 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.440 social distancing. It's really so simple. Yet I find it 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:43.360 baffling that. I mean, it doesn't seem to be it 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.720 is to you and me. But I will tell you 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.360 um that you know, just the conversations I've been having 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.439 of late, even around my neighborhood, I think run your neighborhood. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:54.360 You know, we saw it this weekend. There's conflict of 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.679 people like like do I really have to work? Like 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.079 you know, it's like fighting fighting over the mask stuff, 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.680 and it's just really tough, right yeah, And and I 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.240 think one of the issues is that, you know, and 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.520 and Steve Schwartz been alluded to this in our conversation. 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.280 He said, this is harder in democracies, you know, I mean, 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:16.640 which which is actually a very precise and correct point 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.880 in this sense that the places where this has been 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:24.680 in many ways just locked down or maybe not so democratic. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.559 On the other hand, you've seen it in Germany, You've 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.800 seen it in the UK where people just get on 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.960 with it. They say, Okay, I gotta wear masks. I'm 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.120 going to do that. But that's not what we've seen 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.960 across the US. This is no judgment. This is just 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:42.079 an observation that you have people essentially making a political 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:47.520 statement or somehow deciding that wearing a mask symbolizes something, 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.720 and in reality, what wear a mask symbolizes is that 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:53.760 you give a hoot about other people and you want 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.720 the world to be healthy, right exactly. Meantime, you've got 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.080 the number of new cases around the globe reaching a record, 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.080 and we're seeing a lot of new cases in Latin 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.080 America that's called According to the World Health Organization, US 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.640 Florida's new infections rose to another high, so we're seeing 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.400 those cases go up. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:16.440 with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.200 you are listening to Bloomberg Business Week and Carol Masser. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.079 What a weekend in the political world. I mean it 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.320 started Friday night basically within an hour of us getting 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.679 off of air, maybe a little bit later. Actually it's 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.000 like nine o'clock. You know. I just happened to be 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.160 like reading or doing whatever, catching up on stuff, and 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:40.040 all these news alerts start coming out about the U S. 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.040 Attorney in the Southern District of New York getting fired. 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.920 Then we go into the weekend. Wait, he resigned. No, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.760 I didn't resign, Gait, Now we got fired, No, I didn't. 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:50.880 You know, I don't want to leave. I don't want 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.760 another job at Justice. It's really sort of amazing. Then 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.640 obviously a weekend Chuck Field of the President in Tulsa, 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.600 the big interview that John Bolton gave to ABC about 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.120 his new book, Let's Make Sense of all of It 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.640 with Josh winn Grove, he is White House correspondent for Bloomberg, 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.480 joining us on the phone. All right, Josh, we look 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.080 to you to help us separate the signal from the 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.520 noise here. What do we need to be thinking about 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.120 as this work week begins when it comes to the 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.840 political world. Well, I mean the president is looking for 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.440 ways to turn it around. I think that's what we're 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.720 sort of informing everything, and so he wants loyalists as 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.880 part of that. I think that's what we saw with 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.520 the sort of Friday night moves and really remarkable to 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.400 and pro you know, the guy initially refusing to go 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.880 and then saying you would go, and bar changing who 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.400 we wanted to a point in the interim, and now 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.320 there's some reporting from Bloomberg that the SEC chairman may 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.520 not even want this thing, given you know, all the 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.240 pends of the last seventy two hours. So you know 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:57.760 that one is bubbling, uh, you know, on its own. 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.840 The President is also wanting to get out about more 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:03.880 in contrast himself with Joe Biden. So we're seeing a 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.840 lot of interviews today he's doing with regional media. But 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.600 he also in the in these situations doubles down on 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.600 stuff that he's done before. For instance, we are seeing 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.760 some headlines move on the terminal right now about restrictions 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.640 on desa issuance sort of America first extension. That would 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:22.560 be bad news for people who are trying to immigrate 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.520 to the US, or I should say, at least work 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:26.000 in the US. Do you think the book was non 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.640 immigrant visas? Anyway, He, like I said, back to the 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.560 playbook all over again, you know, doubling down on all 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.720 that media. So that's that's where we're at. The band 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.240 is back together. This the band is back together, and 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.280 this is no doubt about it. An individual who likes campaigning, 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.560 we know that he's doing it. Though this year Um 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:49.040 Josh with the backdrop of Um John Bolton's new book. 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.720 It's um you know, and we just want to play 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:53.680 a little snip because we knew John Bolton spoke with 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.440 ABC over the weekend and he talked about many things, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.520 but he also talked about President Trump's pattern looking an 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.360 obstruction of justice as a way of life. Let's get 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.400 into that. To use the phrase in the book, that 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.160 Trump's pattern looked like obstruction of justice as a way 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.680 of life, which we couldn't accept obstruction of justice as 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.080 a way of life. Look, these were things that I 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.000 could see some evidence of, and they bothered me greatly. 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.160 I talked to the Attorney General about them. I talked 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.400 to the Council to the President about them. I've talked 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.040 to other members of the cabinet about them, um and 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.800 relayed my concerns, and they were very much on my mind. 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.560 There really isn't any guiding principle that I was able 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:39.800 to discern other than what's good for Donald Trump's reelection. Okay, 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.800 so focus of course, that's John Bolton, Trump's former national 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:47.120 security advisor. President Trump's former national security advisor, Josh. You know, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.360 so much has already been reported about what's in that book. 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.040 I do wonder is there something of substance that, as 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.840 an American citizen, as an American voter who's going to 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.040 go to the polls in November, that we really should 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.960 be paying a lot of attend into Well. I think 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.040 that his line on everything being through a reelected should 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.760 lands is a big one. But I think the thing 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:10.919 that strikes me about it is Bolton is not the 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.760 first to write a book, and he's certainly not the 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.880 first Trump administration to write some sort of tell hell 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.600 all memoir. He is the highest ranking one, though, uh. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.760 And you now got a fairly high profile group of 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.960 folks who are former senior figures in the president's own 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.560 administration who've been critical about him in the last you know, 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.119 weeks or months. That includes Mr Bolton, of course, but 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.680 also Jimattics and others. And so I think that is 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.360 going to cause some consternation among Republicans. A little bit 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.639 that said, we've talked about this stuff before tends to 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.280 blow over. The Senate doesn't look particularly you know a 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.679 gast or the president lately, and you know a lot 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.959 of them just want to keep the majority. So you know, 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.720 we'll see, we'll see. I will say, though, the enthusiasm 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.920 Right now, the path forward is a little unclear because 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.400 we know the president, how did they huge rally on Saturday. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:05.440 The attendance was way less than he expected. He's reportedly 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.359 upset about that. The White House is insisting that he 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.240 was not upset about that, And so we don't really 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.040 know what they're going to do going forward on this 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.440 to try to change the channel. Is it a sign 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.960 of waiting support though among his supporters or is it 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.639 just poles would indicate that for sure? For sure, I 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.119 mean there's there's there's not been a lot of good polls. 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.680 What they're saying. That's the positive stands they're putting on it. 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.480 Is it in swing states? And not naturally in swing states? 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.439 The president is still competitive against the defined Joe Biden, 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.119 and that means that they're going to throw everything at 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:36.800 the wall to try to make voters think that Joe 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.600 Biden is the worst choice. Most people in the president's 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.119 orbit believe that if the president the election is about 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.320 Biden versus Trump, Trump can pull it off. But if 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.000 they think it's a referendum on Trump and his performance, 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.840 that is a lot more problematic for the president. And 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.119 so what do we look for now is sort of 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:59.000 the next milestones for the president. He's got another rally 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.560 I believe coming up been in Arizona. Is that tomorrow, Josh? 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.399 I mean, is that another? Is that sort of a 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.960 reset to the reset? It's not a rally per se, 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.399 but he is traveling to Arizona. I think we're going 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.960 to continue to see him go out and about. Arizona 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.280 presents an interest in one because as you know, it 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.760 is arguably the biggest hot spot right now in terms 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.920 of virus cases that they have a huge outbreak going 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:23.960 on right there, and the President is trying to press 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.800 ahead and kind of pretend that the virus is gone. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:28.879 You know that the death rates is what is the 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.639 new goalposts that they go by or lower. But the 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.760 America on Saturday recorded like thirty four thousand new cases. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:37.800 That's the highest total in seven weeks. So you know, 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:39.840 we're not out of this. The President might have to 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:41.840 switch gears and kind of acknowledge we're not out of this. 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.000 And one way to do that is to get people 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:45.919 to act like we still have a pandemic and you know, 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.240 wear masks and stuff. But this white hasn't shown no 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:50.920 interest in doing that. In fact, today they pulled down 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.040 a tent the screen media at the White Hos you 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:54.840 no longer have your temperature checked when you walk into 0:19:54.840 --> 0:20:01.160 the White Kidding. Wow, that's a very interesting inside dish. 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.320 All right, Josh wynd Grove, thank you so much, White 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.520 House correspondent for Bloomberg joining us on the phone. So 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:08.560 much to keep an eye on. And we will continue 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.280 to carol. When it comes to the world of policy 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.679 and politics. We didn't even get to talk about, you know, 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.920 what may happen with the police reform bills that are 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.399 sort of making their way through the Congress as well. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.879 It's such a conflict though right about you know, we 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.080 keep talking about this kind of the tensions of you know, 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.399 reopening versus spikes of cases and and how do we 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.840 figure this one out? All right, we'll continue to follow, 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.280 of course we will. You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Well, 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:38.760 let's continue our conversation about economics China, things we've touched 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:43.280 on already. Andy Brown, editorial director for Bloomberg New Economy, 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.359 joining us on the phone from New Hampshire. This was 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.720 a topic that came up, not surprisingly Andy, in my 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.399 conversation with Steve Schwartzman earlier. We're going to hear a 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.680 bit of about that later on. The US China relationship 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:01.800 is complicated. The relationship, but when President Trump and President 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:06.880 She complicated or not depending on your perspective. And certainly 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.640 John Bolton has a hot take related to that, and 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.680 I would say broke some news, it feels like in 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.399 his book and in his subsequent interview. You take that 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.280 on in your latest column talking about Beijing wanting another 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.119 Trump term. Tell us about what you heard and read 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:28.720 and what it may mean. Yeah, So, I mean this 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:33.240 book by b John Bolton is pretty damning. Um. A 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.920 big pot of of Trump's re election strategy has been 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.280 tough on It was going to be tough on China. Um. 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.480 He and and Joe Biden, We're going to compete to 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.119 see who could be toughest. And it turns out if 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:53.159 the allegations and John Bolton's book book true, Um, Trump 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:58.640 was an absolute pushover for Shi Jim Pak. It's just fascinating. 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:03.040 So so okay, so what does China want at this point? 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.080 Because part of me seems to think and I think 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.000 you read about this, Andy, is that you know some 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.760