1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. It's time for our latest 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 2: installment of Unearthed. If you are very new to the show, 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: this is where we take a time several times a 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: year to talk about things that have been literally and 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: figuratively unearthed over the last few months. We usually start 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: out with updates in these episodes, and we have so 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: many updates, like two thirds of today's episode is updates, 10 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 2: and then we're going to talk about weapons and what 11 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: I've decided is the opposite of weapons, which is medicine. 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 2: Also some books and letters. We will have other stuff 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: in part two of this on Wednesday. It is October, 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: and sometimes I wind up in the October Unearthed with 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: sort of a collection of weirdly creepy fines. I didn't 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: really have that happen this year, so if folks are 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: waiting for that, I just want to say at. 18 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: The beginning, Uncreepy Unearthed. 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: There might be some things that are a little creepy, 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: but they're scattered around. There's not really a ghost story section, 21 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 2: so to kick off. 22 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: On July seventeenth, twenty nineteen, we put out an episode 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: on the nineteen forty four Port Chicago disaster, which was 24 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: a massive explosion in the ammunition depot at Port Chicago 25 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: near San Francisco, California. So as a recap to contextualize 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: this update, nearly two thirds of the three hundred and 27 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: twenty people who died in the explosion were black men. 28 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: The US Navy was segregated and black sailors were disproportionately 29 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: assigned to manual labor, including the most dangerous work, but 30 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: conditions at Port Chicago went beyond routine dangers. Civilian stevedores 31 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: and sailors alike had warned the Navy about the dangers, 32 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: and black sailors had sought help from the NAACP and 33 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: the National Urban League, but none of those warnings were heated. 34 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: So after this explosion, white officers were given hardship leave, 35 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: while black sailors were ordered back to work with no 36 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: changes made to try to prevent another similar disaster from occurring. 37 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: More than two hundred and fifty sailors refused to return 38 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: to duty. They were all threatened with court martial and 39 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: with punishments up to and even including execution. After that threat, 40 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: more than two hundred of them did return to work. 41 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: They were charged with disobeying orders, while the fifty men 42 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: who had continued to refuse were charged with mutiny. They 43 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: were convicted and sentenced to hard labor. Meanwhile, the white 44 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: officers who were working at Port Chicago at the time 45 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: were cleared of any wrongdoing. Some of the discharges and 46 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: sentences that followed these convictions were adjusted later on, and 47 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: two men were exonerated, one for lack of evidence and 48 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: one on the grounds of mental incompetency. On July seventeenth 49 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: of this year, Navy Secretary Carlos del Toro fully exonerated 50 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: the remaining two hundred and fifty six sailors. This followed 51 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: an investigation del Toro ordered after being sworn in as 52 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: Navy Secretary in twenty twenty one, and that found significant 53 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: legal errors. We have also had several updates on the 54 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: search for victims of the nineteen twenty one Tulsa massacre, 55 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: which we covered on the Show on July twenty eighth, 56 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. The most recent excavation at Oaklawn Cemetery in 57 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: Tulsa has concluded after four weeks This included the exhumation 58 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: of the bodies of three people, each of them buried 59 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: in an adult sized wooden casket, and those bodies are 60 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: to be sent for further study. The crews also found 61 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: a bullet near one of the bodies. This excavation also 62 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: exposed forty additional burial sites. Research is ongoing to determine which, 63 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: if any, of these burials might also need to be exhumed. 64 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: Some of the graves that have been found during these 65 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: excavations were not previously documented, but they also don't match 66 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: up with descriptions of the graves where victims of the 67 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: massacre would have been buried. 68 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, they have specific criteria that they're looking for in 69 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 2: terms of which bodies likely need further analysis. Moving on, 70 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: prior hosts of the show, Sarah and Deblina, did an 71 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: episode on Kahokia on June eighth, twenty eleven, and Kahokia 72 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: has come up on Unearthed at least three times since 73 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: we started working on the show. 74 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: Research published in the Journal of the. 75 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: Holocene has looked at the question of whether a drought 76 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: was involved in Kahokia being abandoned in the fifteenth century. 77 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: This research looked at the levels of carbon twelve and 78 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 2: carbon thirteen isotopes in the soil at Kahokia. Both types 79 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: of carbon are involved in photosynthesis, but not all plants 80 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 2: carry out photosynthesis in exactly the same way. Plants like 81 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: prairie grasses and maize, which are adapted to drier climates, 82 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: can leave different signatures than plants like squash and goosefoot, 83 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: which are adapted to wetlands and forests. The people who 84 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: lived at Kahokia would have used all of these foods, 85 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: so researchers wanted to account for the differences in their 86 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 2: carbon signatures in their research. They did not find evidence 87 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 2: of some kind of massive drought in the period leading 88 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: up to when Khokia was abandoned. The levels of both 89 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 2: carbon twelve and carbon thirteen stayed relatively stable over that time, 90 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: so there's no evidence that the presence of either of 91 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: these categories of plant just suddenly dropped off. So based 92 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: on this, they concluded that there was not a massive drought. 93 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: This might rule out one of the possible reasons that 94 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 2: has been put forth for people leaving Kahokia, but it 95 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: does not offer a conclusive explanation for why they did. 96 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: On May twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, we did an episode 97 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: on the history of time capsules, and one of the 98 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: things that we talked about is that a lot of 99 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: time capsules wind up failing at their intended purpose, with 100 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: one reason being that people just kind of lose track 101 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: of them, so they're never retrieved and reopened. That seems 102 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: to be what happened with a metal tube discovered by 103 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: archaeologists in Poland in the nineteen nineties. The tube wound 104 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: up in a museum and this year specialists from a 105 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 2: Polish cultural foundation called Oscillinium realized there was something inside 106 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: of it. 107 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: That something was a newspaper dated to September fifteenth, eighteen 108 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: sixty five, along with a note signed by the owners 109 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: of the building in Rothlaw, who had placed this tube 110 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: along with the cornerstone for a new water tank the 111 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: following day. A cornerstone is a pretty commonplace to put 112 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: a time capsule. This one seems to have, for whatever reason, 113 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: been forgotten about. Prior hosts of the show did an 114 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: episode on Pompeii in two thousand and nine, and Pompey 115 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: has made many appearances on on Earth since then, most 116 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: recently a paper published in the journal Frontiers in Earth 117 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: Science in July adds to ongoing research into whether there 118 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: was an earthquake during the eruption of Vesuvius in the 119 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: year seventy nine, or if seismic activity ended before the 120 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: volcano began. It's well established that there was some seismic activity, 121 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: but there have been ongoing questions about whether it and 122 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: the volcanic eruption were simultaneous, or if one followed the other. 123 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: This might sound like a minor point, since we know 124 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: that there was seismic activity and a volcanic eruption, but 125 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: exactly when each of them occurred would have played a 126 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: part in how the residents of Pompeii tried to escape 127 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: what was happening. 128 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: This research looked specifically at two skeletons, both of them 129 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: believed to have been men about fifty years in age. 130 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: They were both inside of a collapsed building, and because 131 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: they were on top of the volcanic debris rather than 132 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: underneath it, researchers concluded that they had survived the initial eruption, 133 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 2: but then they died when seismic activity caused a wall 134 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: to collapse on top of them, so that seismic activity 135 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: starting after the volcano eruption had already started. 136 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: Another find at Pompeii was unrelated to the eruption. Work 137 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: on a ventilation shaft at a nineteenth century building which 138 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: is now home to the library of the Archaeological Park 139 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: of Pompeii unearthed the tomb of a military official named 140 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: Numerius Agrestinus. He died and was buried decades before the eruption. 141 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: The find of this tomb during the shaft work came 142 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: as a surprise. 143 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: Next in February of twenty eighteen, we did a two 144 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: part episode of the podcast on Sadako Sasaki, who died 145 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: of leukemia at the age of twelve after being exposed 146 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 2: to radiation when the United States dropped an atomic bomb 147 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 2: on Hiroshima, Japan. Her effort to fold one thousand origami 148 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: cranes before her death became symbolic in a movement for 149 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 2: peace and nuclear disarmament. 150 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: Peace Park in Seattle, Washington was home to a statue 151 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: of Sadakosasaki, and we mentioned in the episode that it 152 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,599 Speaker 1: had been vandalized a couple of times since it was 153 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: originally placed there. In July of this year, someone cut 154 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: the statue off at the ankles and stole it from 155 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: the park. There have been no updates unfortunately on this 156 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: since that happened. Yeah, it's possible there will be updates 157 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,839 Speaker 1: between when we record this and when the episode comes out, 158 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: and if so, we will update people later. We ran 159 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: prior hosts episode on Tico Brahe as a Saturday Classic 160 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: on September seventh of this year, along with so many 161 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: updates on research that had been done on his estimated remains, 162 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: like that is the longest introduction to a Saturday Classic 163 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: in recent memory. New research published in July is not 164 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: about his remains or the exhumation. It is about his 165 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: combined residence and laboratory known as Uraniborg. Specifically, it's the 166 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: analysis of some pieces of pottery and glass that were 167 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: found at that site. Five of these fragments have been 168 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: analyzed to determine what the vessels that they were part 169 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: of might have contained. This revealed evidence of enriched nickel, copper, zinc, tin, antimony, tungsten, gold, mercury, 170 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: and lead, with the tungsten find being described as the 171 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: most surprising. Tungsten had not been isolated or described when 172 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: Brahe lived, but it does occur naturally in some other minerals. 173 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: We did an episode on Stonehenge in December of twenty fourteen, 174 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: and in our July on Earth to last year, we 175 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: talked about ongoing controversy over a plan to build a 176 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: tunnel to relocate the highway that runs by the site. 177 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: That controversy is still ongoing. We mentioned our recommendation that 178 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: Stonehenge be placed on UNESCO's list of Endangered Heritage Sites, 179 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: and UNESCO ultimately decided not to do that. The committee 180 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: has instead asked for an updated report on the conservation 181 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: of the site by twenty twenty five. Research at the 182 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: site itself has also suggested that the central altarstone may 183 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: have been brought there from northeastern Scotland. The team was 184 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: not allowed to collect new samples from the alterstone, so 185 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: this research involved analyzing pieces of rock that had been 186 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: collected in earlier digs, some of them dating back to 187 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. These samples match sandstone formations of the 188 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: Orchan Basin in northeast Scotland. It's not clear how the 189 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: altarstone would have been moved such a distance, and whether 190 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: that would have happened on land or by water. 191 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: This is something of a follow up to our Year 192 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: End Unearth last year, in which we talked about a 193 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 2: paper that had concluded that that same altarstone could not 194 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 2: have come from Wales as was previously believed. 195 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: We talked about Joser and Egypt's first pyramid on March sixteenth, 196 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. That was very long ago. According to research 197 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: published in Plus one on August fifth, this pyramid may 198 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: have been built with the help of a hydraulic lift system. 199 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: This step pyramid was built around twenty six eighty BCE, 200 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: and this paper concludes that the nearby Jisir el Mudir 201 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: enclosure may have served as a check dam to collect 202 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: water and sediment. The purpose of this enclosure was previously unknown, 203 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: but if that is what it was for, it may 204 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: have allowed this sediment filled water to flow into chambers 205 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: outside the pyramid, where the sediment would settle out of it, 206 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: with the water carrying on to fill shafts and help 207 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: to raise blocks to higher levels. 208 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: This definitely falls into the category of further research is 209 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: still needed because if this whole system really was part 210 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: of some kind of hydraulic lift, it is not totally 211 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: clear how the water moved through it. 212 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: Or what happened after that in an exact way. 213 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: It's also possible and really even likely that other methods 214 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: were also used to move these large stones, things like 215 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: ramps that would maybe be more straightforwardly expected. We are 216 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 2: going to take a break here and when we come 217 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: back there will be more updates. Okay, we're back with 218 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 2: some more updates. The Alamo and the eighteen thirty six 219 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: Battle of the Alamo have come up on several prior 220 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 2: episodes of the show, including on Unearthed. Recently, conservators have 221 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 2: worked to preserve a cannon that was used during this battle, 222 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: as well as the earlier Battle of Medina in eighteen 223 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: thirteen and the Battle of Concepcion in eighteen thirty five. 224 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: Unlike the other cannons at the site, this one had 225 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: started to develop a weird, chalky residue on its surface. 226 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: The exact composition of this residue was unclear, but it 227 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 2: seemed to be a byproduct of chemicals that had been 228 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: used on it during earlier conservation work. The bronze that 229 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 2: was used to make this cannon did not have exactly 230 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: the same formulation as the other cannons at the site, 231 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: and that is why this one reacted to those chemicals 232 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: in a way that the other ones did not. 233 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: First, they made blocks of bronze with a similar chemical 234 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: composition to the cannon, and then they applied various preparations 235 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: to those blocks to test their effects. The team ultimately 236 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: determined that a formic acid solution could remove the residue 237 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: without harming the cannon, so they applied it to the 238 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: surface charmingly using a tennis ball on a stick. 239 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one of the most delightful images of 240 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: all of the Unearthed research. This time around, research published 241 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: in the journal Antiquity has looked at the identities of 242 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: two people buried in Jamestown. Prior hosts of the show 243 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,479 Speaker 2: have talked about Jamestown in a couple of different episodes, 244 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: including one from twenty thirteen on news reports about whether 245 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 2: cannibalism had taken place there during the period known as 246 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: the Starving Time, and one in twenty ten about a 247 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: shipwreck that helped save that settlement. This research involved DNA 248 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: from two skeletons cross referenced with historical documents. This led 249 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: to the conclusion that they were Sir Ferdnando Oneman and 250 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: Captain will William West, both of whom were related to 251 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: the colony's first governor, Thomas West. What the researchers didn't 252 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: expect was the discovery that these two men were also 253 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: related through their mothers. The result from the DNA tests 254 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 2: then prompted some additional research through surviving historical documents trying 255 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: to figure out what this maternal connection was. One of 256 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: those documents was a legal case involving an oral will 257 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: that Captain West had given in courts before leaving for 258 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: the colony. This will had named Mary West Blunt as 259 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 2: a beneficiary. According to core proceedings. After his death, Mary 260 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: had raised William on behalf of her late sister, Elizabeth. 261 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 2: Mary implied but did not directly state that Elizabeth had 262 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: been William's mother, although she publicly described him as Elizabeth's cousin. 263 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: Elizabeth had never been married, meaning that Mary was raising 264 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: a nephew who had been born out of wedlock. Beyond 265 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: just the family story here, this research is interesting because 266 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: it points to some of the ways that more affluent 267 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: families could keep up appearances and avoid stigma if a 268 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: baby was born to an unmarried mother, they had enough 269 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: money to care for Elizabeth's child, and it probably helped 270 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: that Mary also gave birth to at least nine children, 271 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,239 Speaker 2: including around the time that William was born, so an 272 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,239 Speaker 2: additional child in the mix didn't really raise a lot 273 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 2: of eyebrows. Moving on, prior hosts of the show did 274 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: an episode on Alan Turing which came out on September tenth, 275 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 2: twenty twelve. Two of Alan Turing's notebooks have been put 276 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 2: up for sale. They relate to a portable encryption project 277 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: known as Delilah. British authorities have placed an export ban 278 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: on these notebooks with the hope that a British institution 279 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: will acquire them so that they will remain in Britain. 280 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,959 Speaker 2: There just are not a lot of unpublished research notes 281 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: by Allen Touring remaining today, largely because he didn't actually 282 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 2: keep a lot of working documents or correspondence. The recommended 283 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: price for this is three hundred and seventy nine thousand, 284 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: six hundred eighty pounds, which is about five hundred and 285 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: sixteen thousand dollars, and Britain's export bar on these documents 286 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: expires on November fifteenth, so they are hoping some kind 287 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: of museum or institute or whatever will step up and 288 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: commit to buying it before then. We talked about Easter 289 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 2: Island on a recent Unearthed and Research into rock gardening 290 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 2: techniques on the island that suggested it had not been 291 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 2: through some kind of Echside research published in the journal 292 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: Nature in September continues to build on a growing body 293 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: of research that supports that same conclusion. The study published 294 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: in September involves research into ancient Rapanui genomes and involved 295 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: ongoing meetings and feedback from the Rapanui community. This genetic 296 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: research was looking for evidence that the population of what 297 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: is known as Easter Island had gone through some kind 298 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 2: of catastrophic collapse, and it did not find evidence of 299 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: that having happened, but it did find some suggestion of 300 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 2: contact between the people of Rapanui and the indigenous peoples 301 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 2: of South America, with that contact probably happening sometime between 302 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: the years twelve fifty and fourteen thirty. There's all whole 303 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 2: progression of episodes and unearthed installments on Easter Island in 304 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 2: our archive. We sort of walked through them all the 305 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: last time we discussed research about the island. 306 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: Last time. We have done episodes on the Voynage manuscript 307 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: and on Wilfrid Voinage, and we've talked about a number 308 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: of attempts to decode that manuscript and included those on Unearthed. 309 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: This time, we're not talking about a decoding attempt. Lisa 310 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: Fagan Davis, the executive director of the Medieval Academy of America, 311 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: published a set of ten multi spectral scans of pages 312 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: of the manuscript. These include UV and infrared scans, which 313 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: can reveal previously undetected details about the pages themselves. Even 314 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: if you don't know anything about how to interpret any 315 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: of this, these look really cool, Yes they do. Davis 316 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: wrote about the images in her blog in September. Scans 317 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: of the ten pages are available in a Google Drive folder. 318 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: The scans are actually taken ten years ago, and the 319 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: plan at that time had been to make them available 320 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: right away or at least pretty quickly, but for various 321 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 1: reasons that didn't happen until now. Davis's blog is at 322 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: Manuscript Roadtrip dot WordPress dot com, and the blog post 323 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: includes some cautions about jumping to conclusions based on these images, 324 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: plus some advice on how to understand this kind of imaging. 325 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: There's really so much stuff about all of this in 326 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: Davis's blog post, including a look at some Roman alphabet 327 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: characters that were at to the manuscript. Later on Davis 328 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: concludes that they were made by Johannes Marcus Marcy, who 329 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: owned the manuscript in the mid seventeenth century. Davis also 330 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: looks at questions like whether there is evidence that this 331 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: parchment was reused, which there really isn't. If you're interested 332 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: in the Voyage Manuscript at all, like this whole blog 333 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: post is well worth a visit and a thoroughread on 334 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: your own. Again, it is that manuscript road trip that 335 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: is all one word dot WordPress dot com. The Isabella 336 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: Stewart Gardner Museum is undergoing a major restoration project which 337 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: is moving into its final phase, and this includes work 338 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: in the Dutch Room, which was home to six of 339 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: the thirteen works that were stolen in a heist in 340 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. We put on an update to past Hosts 341 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: episode on that heist on April thirtieth, twenty fourteen. 342 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 2: This restoration work is being done without closing the gallery 343 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 2: off to museum visitors, so people will be able to 344 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 2: see the work as it happens. The work that's being 345 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 2: done involves conservation of the artwork as well as restoration 346 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: and renovation of the building itself. The lighting is also 347 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 2: going to be updated to make it more energy efficient. 348 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: Next, new photos of the Titanic show ongoing decay at 349 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: the REX site, including the collapse of part of the 350 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: deck railing. The fifteen foot section of railing basically fell 351 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: straight down to the seafloor. A bronze statue of the 352 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: goddess Diana has been found on the seafloor as well. 353 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: This statue used to be on top of the fireplace 354 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: mantle in the first class lounge. Unlike the railing, which 355 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: seems to have fallen due to the rex inevitable decay, 356 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: this statue was likely dislodged as the ship broke apart 357 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: when it sank. 358 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: Kind of tangentially related, The US Coast Guard held hearings 359 00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 2: into the disaster aboard the titan submersible that imploded bring 360 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: a voyage to the Titanic in twenty twenty three. In 361 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 2: our episode on the wreck of the Andrea Doria, we 362 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: talked about one of the efforts to map that wreck 363 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 2: that had been done by Oceangate in twenty sixteen using 364 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 2: one of its earlier submersibles, which was known as Cyclops one. 365 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: There were some contradictions and witness testimonies about the details 366 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: of this dive and sort of what the tenor of 367 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: the conversation was to the people who were on board, 368 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 2: but multiple witnesses stated that Oceangate founder Stockton Rush got 369 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: the cyclops one stuck under part of the Andrea Doria 370 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 2: during one of those dives. The Titanic has come up 371 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 2: in a number of past episodes, and we talked about 372 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 2: the Andrea Doria in May of this year, moving on 373 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: Sir John Franklin's expedition aboard the HMS Arabis and the 374 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: HMS Terror has been the subject of a number of 375 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 2: episodes and updates on Unearthed. The latest researchers have identified 376 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 2: a jawbone that was found on King William Island as 377 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 2: belonging to James Fitzjames, a captain on the HMS Erebus. 378 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: This conclusion came from comparison between DNA extracted from the 379 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 2: jawbone to twenty five living descendants of the expedition's crew. 380 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: They also noted that this jaw bone showed evidence of 381 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: cut marks that could be indicative of cannibalism. In our 382 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: last update on May twenty eighth, twenty twenty two, we 383 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: released an episode on Thomas Hardy and his relationships with 384 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: his first wife, Emma Gifford's and his second wife, Florence Dugdale. 385 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 2: Hardy had a home built in Dorset known as max Gate, 386 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 2: and that's where he lived with Emma and where he 387 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: met Florence, and then where he lived with Florence after 388 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 2: he married her. After Emma's death, some burial sites were 389 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: discovered while the house was being built, which led Hardy 390 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 2: to believe that the land had once been an ancient burial. 391 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 2: In eighteen ninety one he found a large sarsen stone, 392 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 2: which he called the Druid Stone and had re erected 393 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: in his garden. But decades after his death, it was 394 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 2: discovered that a large circular Neolithic enclosure described as a 395 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 2: proto stone hinge, was buried underneath it. This enclosure dated 396 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: back to about three thousand BCE. A more recent dig 397 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two found that there was activity at 398 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: the site at least five hundred years before that, meaning 399 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 2: that this is one of the oldest sites in southwestern England. 400 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 2: Part of this enclosure was destroyed during roadwork, which uncovered 401 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 2: another sarsen stone that was also erected in the garden, 402 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 2: but now this site has been protected remains of Neolithic 403 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 2: enclosure and associated features at max Gate was added to 404 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 2: England's National Heritage List in August of this year. Considering 405 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: the role that Stonehenge played in Hardy's novel Test of 406 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: the Durbervilles, which is probably the novel he's best known for. 407 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 2: It's the one I had to read in high school. 408 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: Uh. I think he might have thought that was cool. 409 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: I bet he would. I was a Jude, the obscure girl. Uh. 410 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: That is it for our many updates this round, So 411 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: we are going to pause here for a sponsor break. 412 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: We have a few finds this time that can fall 413 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: under the umbrella of weaponry or possibly tools which could 414 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: be a weapon in some circumstances. We will start with 415 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: some axes, which can be both a weapon and a tool. 416 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: At the end of June, someone mailed two axe heads 417 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: to the National Museum of Ireland. They mailed them in 418 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: a porridge box cushioned in foam that had been cut 419 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: to fit. I am delighted by that packaging method. A 420 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: letter accompanying the axe heads was not signed, but said 421 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: that someone had found them using a metal detector and 422 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: wanted them to be conserved. Museum staff analyzed the axe 423 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: heads and they determined that they dated back to the 424 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: Early Bronze Age, which is about twenty one fifty to 425 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: two thousand BCE. But the staff needed to know. 426 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: More about exactly where these axe heads were found to 427 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: be able to really study them, so the museum put 428 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: out a public appeal for the person who had sent 429 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 2: them to come forward. 430 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: In July, a farmer named Thomas Dunn came forward not 431 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: long after. It's illegal in Ireland to use a metal 432 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: detector to look for artifacts, but that's not what Done 433 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: was doing. A piece of metal had fallen off of 434 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: a mower while he was cutting silage, and he was 435 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: afraid it would damage the silog harvester if he didn't 436 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: find it, so he was looking for this piece of 437 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: mower when he just accidentally happened to stumble onto the 438 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: axe heads. 439 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 2: Since coming forward, Done has taken researchers from the museum 440 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 2: to the spot where he found this axe head. In 441 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 2: quotes to reporters, he described the folks from the National 442 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 2: Museum of Ireland as quote horrid happy over this whole discovery. 443 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 2: This is a colloquialism I had not heard before, and 444 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 2: I find horrid happy to be so delightful. 445 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: And perfect for the Halloween season. I'm horrid happy. In 446 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: other axe news, a marine archaeologist off the coast of 447 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: Erandahl in southern Norway no Anna or Elsa there has 448 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: found an axe head, this one dating to the Middle 449 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: Bronze Age around eleven hundred BCE. This is the first 450 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: known prehistoric Middle artifact to be found in Norwegian waters, 451 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: and he made this find during a routine survey in 452 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,719 Speaker 1: a pile of much more recent ship ballist It's not 453 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,479 Speaker 1: clear whether this axe was part of the ballast or 454 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: whether it came from a different shipwreck. 455 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 2: Our next weapon related find is that archaeologists working at 456 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 2: Minuteman National Historical Park in Conquered, Massachusetts, have found five 457 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 2: musket balls from the Battle of Conquered, which took place 458 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: on April nineteen, seventeen seventy five. The musket balls were 459 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 2: unearthed last year. Preliminary work suggested they had been fired 460 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: by the colonial militia at British troops. The musket balls 461 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 2: range in size from forty caliber to seventy caliber, and 462 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: that's part of the reasoning for identifying them as coming 463 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: from militia weapons, because unlike the British forces who had 464 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 2: standardized ammunition. The militia brought their own weapons and ammo, 465 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 2: so it's tended to be an assortment of whatever people 466 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 2: had to work with. Also, these musket balls were intact, 467 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 2: so it does not appear that they actually hit anything 468 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: they were being fired at. 469 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: Moving on. In prior episodes of Unearth, we've talked about 470 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: research involving projectile points, thrown javelins and ad laddles, and 471 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: and how prehistoric peoples might have used these things to hunt. 472 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: Research published in the journal Plus One comes to a 473 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: different conclusion that Clovis points may have been used on 474 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: planted pikes braced against the ground in the face of 475 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 1: charging megafauna. Clovis points are sometimes described as projectile points, 476 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: but since the weapons they were attached to have not 477 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: survived until today, we don't know for sure exactly how 478 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: they were used. The team reviewed historical documents on the 479 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: use of pikes and other braced weapons, and then to 480 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: test this hypothesis, the team designed a series of experiments 481 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: to see things like how much force it took for 482 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: the point of one of these, like a replica that 483 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: they made to pierce a piece of untanned cowhide, how 484 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: much force it took for the lashings holding a point 485 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: to a shaft to rupture, and what actually happened when 486 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: a point encountered an oak plank, which was to simulate bone. 487 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: They found that it was possible for a Clovis point 488 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: lash to a braced shaft to seriously injure something like 489 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: a large mammal. The proposed next step is to construct 490 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: a dynamic experiment with a moving mass, something like a 491 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: block of ballistics gel and our last weapon, a sword 492 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: has disappeared from the village of Rocamadour in southwestern France. 493 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: This is a sword that, according to lore, was Durandahal, 494 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: which belonged to Charlemagne's night Roland and was made famous 495 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: in the epic poem The Song of Roland. To be clear, 496 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: this sword that has disappeared did not date all the 497 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: way back to thirteen hundred years ago when Charlemagne was living. 498 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: It was a replica that was installed in the rock 499 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: as a tourist attraction, but that might have happened as 500 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: early ago as the seventeen eighties. So while the town 501 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: acknowledges that this was. 502 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: Not really Roland's sword, still sees the sword as part 503 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: of the local heritage. 504 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: Moving on now to a few medical finds. Researchers have 505 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: used CT scanning to get a closer look at two 506 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: thousand year old Roman surgical tools to try to develop 507 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: a more thorough understanding of how they might have been used. 508 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: These instruments include a bronze scalpel handle, two surgical probes, 509 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: a spoon, and two needles. 510 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 2: This CT scanner created three D models of each of 511 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 2: the tools, as well as using X ray technologies to 512 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: give a sense of what the tools looked like underneath 513 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: the existing corrosion that's on their surface. Three D printed 514 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 2: versions of these models will also allow some further research 515 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 2: and the creation of physical replicas to be used in classrooms. 516 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 2: This research has already revealed some things about the tools themselves. 517 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: For example, the way this scalpel handle was crafted allowed 518 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 2: for easy removal and replacement of scalpel blades. Researchers from 519 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 2: the University of Gottenburg in Sweden and the Globe Institute 520 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: have analyzed the bones of one hundred eight people who 521 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 2: died about five thousand years ago, and they found evidence 522 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 2: to suggest that eighteen of them, or seventeen percent, were 523 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 2: infected with plague when they died. Over a period of 524 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 2: about one hundred twenty years, cases of plague struck three 525 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 2: different generations of the same family. This suggests that plague 526 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 2: was common in Scandinavia during this period. None of the 527 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 2: strains involved were the one that caused the Black Death 528 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: at the start of the Second Plague pandemic thousands of 529 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 2: years later, but research suggested this strain was capable of 530 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: causing an epidemic. This means it's possible that plague may 531 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 2: have played a role in the population loss that happened 532 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: around this time, which is known as the Neolithic Decline, 533 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: but researchers involved with this project specified that this is 534 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 2: really sir cumstantial. It doesn't conclusively prove that plague was 535 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 2: involved in the Neolithic decline, but it does rule out 536 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: theories that argued that plague was not a factor, or 537 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 2: even that plague did not exist in this area at 538 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: this point. 539 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: Speaking of illnesses, researchers from Sweden and Spain have been 540 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: studying an isolated early medieval community in northern Spain. This 541 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: was an interdisciplinary project that looked at this community and 542 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: the people who lived there from a lot of different angles, 543 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: including evidence of illnesses and conditions that the people experienced. 544 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: One turned out to be very olavirus, that is, the 545 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: virus that causes smallpox, specifically a strain that was similar 546 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: to ones found in Scandinavia, Germany, and Russia. This offers 547 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: a possible explanation for how and when smallpox was first 548 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: introduced into what's now Spain, but also how widespread different 549 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: strains of small p word during the Middle Ages. Lastly, 550 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: researchers at the University of Milan have found traces of 551 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: components from earth roxalem coca in mummified brain matter. The 552 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: tissue dates back to the early sixteen hundreds in Italy, 553 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: and cocaine is derived from this plant. Earth roxalem coca 554 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: is native to South America, and it was previously thought 555 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: to have been introduced to Europe in the eighteenth century, 556 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: so later than this. Attempts to send samples across the 557 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean earlier than that failed because the samples just 558 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: did not survive the journey. This tissue came from a 559 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: burial site near a major hospital, but it's not totally 560 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: clear whether people might have been using this plant for 561 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: medicine or for recreation. People probably would have used it 562 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: by chewing on the leaves, and it isn't documented in 563 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: hospital records. 564 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: Now we've got some books and letters, and I took 565 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 2: a kind of expansive view of what counts as a book. 566 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 2: Here first, twelve thousand year old markings on a stone 567 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 2: pillar in Turkya may be the world's oldest solar calendar. 568 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: This conclusion comes from counting little V shaped symbols that 569 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: were carved into the pillars, finding that they might represent 570 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty five days. There are also additional 571 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: symbols that would line up with the summer solstice, and 572 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: markings for the phases of the Sun and the moon. 573 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: The carvings at this temple also seem to mark the 574 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: date that a swarm of comet fragments collided with the Earth, 575 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,399 Speaker 1: roughly thirteen thousand years ago or around ten eight hundred 576 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: and fifty BCE. In similar news, newly translated cuneiform tablets 577 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 1: seem to have been used by ancient Babylonians to make 578 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 1: predictions based off of lunar eclipses. These tablets are four 579 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: thousand years old and seem to have been a tool 580 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: for celestial divination, connecting astronomical events to things like the 581 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: deaths of kings or disease epidemics. 582 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 2: And in another cuneiform fined restoration work following a series 583 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 2: of earthquakes that struck Turkia and Syria in twenty twenty 584 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:28,240 Speaker 2: three has unearthed a tiny cuneiform tablet. Several excavation sites 585 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 2: were damaged or reburied in Turkia during these earthquakes, and 586 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 2: new excavations at one of the damaged sites turns up 587 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 2: what appeared to be a receipt measuring less than two 588 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 2: inches square, dating back to the fifteenth century BCE, describing 589 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 2: the purchase of a large amount of furniture. So it's 590 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 2: a little, tiny cuneiform tablet of someone's little shopping trip 591 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,240 Speaker 2: for some furniture. 592 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: I love it. A strip of wood found in Japan 593 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: is roughly thirteen hundred years old and appears to be 594 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: part of a multiplication table. If it were intact, it 595 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: would be a tablet measuring about thirty three centimeters long, 596 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: but this is only a fragment of it. It's a 597 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: little strip that measures sixteen point two centimeters by one 598 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: point two centimeter. It's believed that this was used by 599 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: workers in a guard's office in what was then Japan's 600 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: capital of Fujuwarakio. 601 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 2: A transcript of a musical work, probably by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 602 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 2: from when he was a teenager, has been found in 603 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 2: a German library. This is a twelve minute piece that 604 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 2: was written for a string trio and it may have 605 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 2: been written for his sister. There's some suggestion that his 606 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,839 Speaker 2: sister may have been the person who preserved this piece 607 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 2: of music. This piece is just known as Serenade in 608 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 2: c and it was performed publicly for the first time 609 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 2: in centuries in September. A second performance followed that by 610 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 2: the Leipzig Opera and that one is available at YouTube. 611 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: That could have also gone in updates. It could have 612 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: since we have talked about his sister before. And lastly, 613 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: archaeology students in northern France have found a message in 614 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: a bottle one that was left by archaeologist PJ. Ferrey 615 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: at the site when he worked there in eighteen twenty five. 616 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: It's a very simple note, tied with a string and 617 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: placed in a glass vial, noting his name and that 618 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: he was a member of various intellectual societies and when 619 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: he was there before, noting that he was continuing his 620 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: work at the City of Limes or Caesar's camp. And 621 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: that's the first chunk of our unearthed stuff. We'll talk 622 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: about more on Wednesday. I also have some listener mail. Fantastic, 623 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 1: This is from Julia, I answered Julia, But I thought 624 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: other people might have curiosity about the same thing, so 625 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: I'm going to read the whole thing, Julia says, Hi, 626 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy. First and foremost, thank you both for 627 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: traveling with me to work, someone who doesn't farewell when 628 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 1: left alone with my thoughts. You to make my commute 629 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: infinitely less stressful. Secondly, I'm curious about how you both 630 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: decide which form of a name to use. I have 631 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: noticed a fascinating trend where you sometimes opt for the 632 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: native name of a place, which I've had really intriguing. 633 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: For example, in one podcast, I heard you refer to 634 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 1: Turkey as Turkia, but still used Germany and Poland instead 635 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: of Deutschland or Pulska. I'm curious what guides your choice 636 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: to use the native name in some cases but not others. 637 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: I tend to code switch quite a bit myself. Sometimes 638 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: it's about the audience, sometimes it's just out of habit, 639 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: but I was really interested in how you make these decisions. Ps. 640 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: Here's my pet tax meet Ramsey's my hairless sphinx. He's 641 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: usually found snuggled under blankets and in the picture he's 642 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: giving me side eye because I sat down a bit 643 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: too aggressively next to him. The video was quite a surprise. 644 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,799 Speaker 1: He actually hates putting his head in tight places, and 645 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: the water is flavored sparkling water. I fully expected him 646 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: to turn his nose up at it, but to my astonishment, 647 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: he actually liked it. Thank you again for all you do. 648 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 2: We have, yes, a very adorable cat making a very 649 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 2: grumpy face. 650 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: Justice for Ramses. Don't sit down too quickly next to 651 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:15,800 Speaker 1: a kiddy. 652 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's an incredibly cute thing, so I answered Julia. 653 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 2: But so Turkya actually requested that the United Nations recognize 654 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 2: the nation as Turkia and not as Turkey for various reasons, 655 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 2: including in the fact that in English, turkey is an animal, 656 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 2: an animal that a lot of people don't necessarily have 657 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 2: a high opinion of and can also be used to 658 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 2: insult people by calling them a turkey. So this was 659 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 2: one of many reasons that like Turkya was like, hey, 660 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 2: United nations. We would really like for our name to 661 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 2: be Turkeya and not Turkey. And so if you look 662 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,760 Speaker 2: at things like the United Nation's list of member states, 663 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 2: that's how it's spelled now, and so that's like what 664 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 2: is has driven the way that we say Turkya specifically. Similarly, 665 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 2: places in Ukraine have specifically tried to get people to 666 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 2: use pronunciations and sort of anglicized versions that are based 667 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 2: off of Ukrainian pronunciations rather than Russian pronunciations, and so 668 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 2: that has driven those pronunciations as well. Places like Germany 669 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 2: and Poland I have not really had that kind of 670 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 2: a pr effort. And also, like, we have English language 671 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,840 Speaker 2: names for these places, and our podcast is in English 672 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 2: to a mostly English speaking audience, So to me, it 673 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 2: would be weird if we started trying to use like 674 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 2: German names for like, if we started trying to call 675 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 2: Germany Deutschland rather than Germany. Sometimes when we're talking about 676 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 2: especially cities and towns that don't exist anymore, or places 677 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 2: that are really remote and there's not like an English 678 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 2: language pronunciation for something like there is foresay Paris or 679 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 2: Barcelona or whatever, we're just gonna do our best, Like 680 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 2: we're probably going to sound more French when we're talking 681 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 2: about a tiny town in a remote area of France 682 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,399 Speaker 2: rather than Paris. So yeah, sometimes it's just a judgment call. 683 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 2: But sometimes in places like Turkya and and Kiev in 684 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 2: the Ukraine and things like that, like there has been 685 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 2: a formal effort on the part of that place and 686 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 2: the people living there for people to use a particular pronunciation. 687 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 2: Sometimes we might not have heard about such efforts, and 688 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 2: folks let us know, and then we go, oh, we 689 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 2: should probably say it this way now. 690 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, language ever evolving, ever evolving. I mean my 691 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 1: rule of thumb is if this will make you laugh 692 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,479 Speaker 1: and laugh because I've done this before. Okay, if duo 693 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: lingo uses it in the conversation of the place that 694 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: is not translated and then gives you an alternate translation, 695 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: that to me is a good guide also sure, right, 696 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: Like if you are learning a language and duo lingo 697 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 1: and they call it French, but the right when they're 698 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: teaching you the language, they call it false, like well 699 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: there you go, or you know, yeah, I'm also thinking 700 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: about in my duo lingo, when you're learning the French 701 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:45,720 Speaker 1: terms for other nations and cities and stuff like, yeah, 702 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Yeah. 703 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like there's also just not an official rule, 704 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 2: so we're kind of doing the thing that seems to 705 00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,439 Speaker 2: make the most sense. Yeah. 706 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 1: I feel like going by the un list is a 707 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: good policy. 708 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 2: Yeah. 709 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyway, thank you so much for that email, 710 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: Julia and super cute picture. If you would like to 711 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 1: write to us about this or any other podcast or 712 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,879 Speaker 1: at History podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can 713 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: subscribe to our show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever 714 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: else you like to get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed 715 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,719 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 716 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 717 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.