Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kurrigan. This is next question. Yes,
Speaker 1: the new year is upon us and we're winding down
Speaker 1: this podcast season, which has been a really special one
Speaker 1: for me, sharing the making of my memoir and some
Speaker 1: of the most impactful moments for my personal and professional life.
Speaker 1: But we're not done yet. People. If you didn't get
Speaker 1: a chance to make it to any of the stops
Speaker 1: on my book tour, and frankly even if you did,
Speaker 1: I have something special, stand vibe lights check, audience is in. Okay, Katie,
Speaker 1: let's get ready. In three two, we're going there live.
Speaker 1: Thank you. You guys are so nice to be here,
Speaker 1: to pay good money to come see me. Thank you
Speaker 1: so so much. Hi. Today, I'm sharing some moments from
Speaker 1: my nine city Whirlwind tour after going there, came out
Speaker 1: and laid October. I went there to talk about my
Speaker 1: book in person. Here's a little taste. Let's rewind, shall we,
Speaker 1: to a time long ago and far away. My big
Speaker 1: break came at w r C at local station in
Speaker 1: d C, located right upstairs from the Washington Bureau of
Speaker 1: I was proud as a peacock to be part of
Speaker 1: the NBC family. I had woken up that morning with
Speaker 1: a healthy husband, our lives stretching out before us. I
Speaker 1: went to sleep with a husband who had stage four
Speaker 1: calling cancer and a colostomy back. As Peter Parker in
Speaker 1: Spider Man reminds us, with great power comes great responsibility,
Speaker 1: and Matt unfortunately seriously abused his. After my first broadcast
Speaker 1: on the CBS Evening News, it was open season on me,
Speaker 1: my makeup, my hair, the fact that I wore a
Speaker 1: white jacket after Labor Day. What has been a raging
Speaker 1: success though, is my merger with Muelner. Yeah. So for
Speaker 1: all of you who may not believe in second chances,
Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you it is possible. But I
Speaker 1: also got to share the stage with some of my
Speaker 1: very favorite people like Eina Garten and Jenn Garner, Chance
Speaker 1: the Rapper, and Kim and Brad Paisley. You know what
Speaker 1: he's He's going there, Katie, he is now. In addition
Speaker 1: to those celebrity interviews and more on those in some
Speaker 1: bonus episodes to come, yeha, I also about to sit
Speaker 1: down with people you may not know but should. Many
Speaker 1: of them who I met along the way. They were
Speaker 1: at the center of some of the biggest stories of
Speaker 1: my career, ordinary people who responded to extraordinary, often traumatic
Speaker 1: events in inspiring and life changing ways. On this episode
Speaker 1: of Next Question, I'm sharing the best moments from those conversations.
Speaker 1: We'll begin where the tour did in Boston. I want
Speaker 1: to give you all a warning. This is our first
Speaker 1: night of doing this, so so so seriously, please please
Speaker 1: be gentle because who knows what's going to happen. But
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're hearing. My guest was Celesque Corkrant.
Speaker 1: Celeste was watching her sister Carmen run the Boston Marathon
Speaker 1: on April two and was at the proverbial wrong place
Speaker 1: at the wrong time. When one of those bombs exploded.
Speaker 1: Celesque would lose both her legs. How do you put
Speaker 1: your life together? How do you not let anger win?
Speaker 1: How do you find purpose through the pain? How do
Speaker 1: you go on? Well, I'll tell you because she is,
Speaker 1: and she's here tonight, so please welcome Celesque, poor friend
Speaker 1: and her sister, Carmen Icabo. Celesque came on my talk
Speaker 1: show back in just a few months after the bombing.
Speaker 1: Back then, she walked carefully on ill fitting prosthetics, but
Speaker 1: in Boston this past October. She walked across the stage
Speaker 1: confidently and securely, accompanied by her sister Carmen. Here's a
Speaker 1: portion of our conversation. You've come such a long way,
Speaker 1: I think since that day when you were on my show.
Speaker 1: And I think we should also mention that their daughter, Sydney,
Speaker 1: who was seventeen at the time, suffered critical injuries that
Speaker 1: day as well, had to go through numerous surgeries. And
Speaker 1: I can't imagine as a mom, you are dealing with
Speaker 1: your own injuries, and yet Sydney had her injuries too,
Speaker 1: and you all ended up being sharing a hospital brand didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was just luck that we ended up at the
Speaker 1: same hospital and everything. And then they put us when
Speaker 1: they realized that we were mother and daughter, they put
Speaker 1: us in the same room. But yeah, to be there
Speaker 1: my mother everybody, like I've always been like that, and
Speaker 1: to not be able to to be in a hospital bed,
Speaker 1: to have my legs in these casts, and then and
Speaker 1: to know that Sydney was so hurting, you know, I
Speaker 1: would see her crying um and he couldn't get up
Speaker 1: and go to her, and I was I was always
Speaker 1: that's my baby. Of course I'm going to be there.
Speaker 1: It was. It was overwhelming because it was the two
Speaker 1: of them, and celest really wanted to be her mom
Speaker 1: and she really couldn't. Um. I mean she could and
Speaker 1: she was. But I think the hardest part about it
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, we thought our life everything
Speaker 1: was going to be so horrible because Cels lost her legs.
Speaker 1: But Sydney was so so sick, and so that was
Speaker 1: what was so hard. Like her, her injuries were much
Speaker 1: worse than selesces. If you can even imagine that, you
Speaker 1: had to obviously deal with this sort of huge life change.
Speaker 1: And I don't think we should underestimate how challenging it was,
Speaker 1: because not only physically for you, uh, Celeste, but also
Speaker 1: just mentally and emotionally. It was really really tough. There
Speaker 1: were days where you just wouldn't get out of bed.
Speaker 1: Understood days like that. Really, Yeah, I had, I've been
Speaker 1: out of my legs. I'm just kind of I started
Speaker 1: almost all over again. I had surgery from my nerve
Speaker 1: pain um three years ago maybe it was it was
Speaker 1: about three years ago over for COVID, and that was
Speaker 1: a long recovery and I was out of my legs
Speaker 1: um for a long time. I was just in the
Speaker 1: wheel chair. So for the last like I don't know,
Speaker 1: three years more in my chair than in my legs.
Speaker 1: But um, but I felt like I needed that two
Speaker 1: like ground myself or something. You know. Here I am
Speaker 1: up on these stilts. And before I lost my legs,
Speaker 1: I used to walk barefoot all the time. I love
Speaker 1: to walk barefoot. And I felt like there was some
Speaker 1: gonna sound goofy, but I felt like there was some
Speaker 1: kind of connection that was lost. You know, I needed
Speaker 1: to be like down on the ground. You I know,
Speaker 1: were introduced to other people who were amputees who had
Speaker 1: lost their legs, and it was sort of helpful, but
Speaker 1: not that helpful at first. Why was that? Um, some
Speaker 1: marines came to see me, and um, a lot of
Speaker 1: military people. So it was a lot of men and
Speaker 1: a lot of um single leg amputees that I met
Speaker 1: with or that you know, came to encourage me. And
Speaker 1: that was fantastic. I needed that, but I was sort
Speaker 1: of like missing, I don't even know how to say it,
Speaker 1: like a female connection really right, that's exactly how to
Speaker 1: say it. And so and so um and and luckily
Speaker 1: you got connected with this incredible woman in California who
Speaker 1: have lost her her legs because of frost bite when
Speaker 1: she was nineteen years old, and you all became best friends.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that relationship really turned things around,
Speaker 1: didn't it. It really did. We I met her in
Speaker 1: New York and she was going to an event and
Speaker 1: she said that we had had numerous conversations on the phone,
Speaker 1: and then she was like, I want to meet So
Speaker 1: she was gonna go to the function in New York,
Speaker 1: but she had my number, let me tell you, because
Speaker 1: she was like, Celeste, if I fly across the country
Speaker 1: and show up there, you can't back out. And I
Speaker 1: so would have. There was on a good day, you know.
Speaker 1: I was just like, New York, I'm not gonna be
Speaker 1: able to like what you know. And I was just
Speaker 1: freaking out. And then this one was like don't you go?
Speaker 1: And and so that I gave you, um, you know,
Speaker 1: it gave you back your fighting spirit in a way,
Speaker 1: didn't it. It did? Because that's how Jamie is. She's
Speaker 1: very um. She's just a go get her and she's
Speaker 1: just if I would cry, like say I had to
Speaker 1: crawl to get into the car or something like, you know,
Speaker 1: get out of my wheelchair, get in the back of
Speaker 1: the car, fold my wheelchair, put it in the car.
Speaker 1: I would call her and just be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is you know what I have to do. And
Speaker 1: she was like, yeah, but you can do it. And
Speaker 1: it's so true. And and now I went from crying
Speaker 1: because I had to do something a certain way to yeah,
Speaker 1: I've got this, Okay, I got it. I know that
Speaker 1: you have started to do a lot of ad because
Speaker 1: he worked with an organization called fifty Legs, which which
Speaker 1: helps peep who who need help getting post prosthesis a prosthetic.
Speaker 1: I always have a hard time saying that, yeah, we
Speaker 1: help people get yeah, and um that has that has
Speaker 1: that helped you to by helping other people? Absolutely? Um,
Speaker 1: she has really been helped to so many people, Like
Speaker 1: there are people in the hospital or whatever, and just
Speaker 1: throw out all of our work with fifty Legs and
Speaker 1: what has happened to thee last Like you know, we've
Speaker 1: always said from the beginning, with bad comes good, and
Speaker 1: I think that's the over you know, the overwhelming theme
Speaker 1: in our life, as we always have to say, with
Speaker 1: bad comes good, and she has She's helped in so
Speaker 1: many people. And in my situation, I feel strongly about
Speaker 1: this in my situation, I had so many people. I mean,
Speaker 1: the whole city of Boston was behind all of us. Right,
Speaker 1: talked about Bostons and people that I've met over the
Speaker 1: years have car accidents, diabetes whatever, and lose limbs and
Speaker 1: don't have any of that support that I had. So
Speaker 1: I felt very strongly because I had so much help
Speaker 1: and it helped me so much, and I don't know
Speaker 1: what I would have done without that much help. So
Speaker 1: every time when I can help somebody, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm just paying it forward, you know, And I hope
Speaker 1: that and I tell them that if they need somebody
Speaker 1: else they had some too. Wow, you're you're really a
Speaker 1: remarkable person, and not you are. I just don't. I
Speaker 1: just dealt with a situation that came to me as
Speaker 1: best as I could. You know, I didn't choose this,
Speaker 1: but I'm not done living, so of course has gone.
Speaker 1: That was Celesque Corkran and her sister Carmen Icabo in Boston.
Speaker 1: In New York, I got to talk with Lauren Manning
Speaker 1: in two thousand one. Lauren was a Wall Street executive
Speaker 1: at Candor Fitzgerald, which was located it in the Twin
Speaker 1: Towers on September eleven, Lauren was just entering the lobby
Speaker 1: of the North Tower when the first plane hit and
Speaker 1: a fireball from the elevator shaft enveloped her, burning more
Speaker 1: than two of her body. Lauren, who is also a
Speaker 1: wife and mother of two sons, Tyler and Jagger, had
Speaker 1: a slim chance of survival. And yet you will not
Speaker 1: believe how far she has come since I met her
Speaker 1: two decades ago. She is a real force of nature.
Speaker 1: Please welcome the extraordinary Lauren. Manny. You know I wanted.
Speaker 1: I was so thrilled, Lauren, first of all, that you
Speaker 1: were willing to come back and and sort of reconnect
Speaker 1: with me, because you're such an amazing person. It's such
Speaker 1: a inspiration to me still to this day. And I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you just about this whole healing process,
Speaker 1: because obviously we just passed the twentieth anniversary of nine eleven. Um,
Speaker 1: do you do you have any residual effects from the
Speaker 1: injuries that you sustained that day? Completely so, my life
Speaker 1: on a daily basis is lived through a different prism
Speaker 1: of what happened to me, and every aspect of it
Speaker 1: is compromised from the way any limb works to the
Speaker 1: way my voice works. Learning how to walk again and
Speaker 1: speak again, and to really live again is all a
Speaker 1: study in an ongoing series of pain UM, only punctuated
Speaker 1: by sometimes, uh, the blessings that I have in life
Speaker 1: of a husband and children who are even more painful
Speaker 1: in certain moments. You know, Lauren, you were you were
Speaker 1: a badass before this happened, and I'm curious if you're
Speaker 1: kind of tough. You're such a determined woman. I mean,
Speaker 1: when I met you at that rehab center, you I
Speaker 1: just couldn't believe how focused you were on getting better.
Speaker 1: Do you think your personality type really contributed to your healing?
Speaker 1: And You're you're a singular focus on that, I think
Speaker 1: so certainly. You know, we all come from a different
Speaker 1: place in a sense. But my family and my my upbringing,
Speaker 1: and UH also being in a business that was dominated
Speaker 1: by men who are all wonderful in so many ways,
Speaker 1: but highly misogynistic and many others, really difficult to make
Speaker 1: the grade and to get paid what you should. And
Speaker 1: it created within me a thesis, along with my family's
Speaker 1: service through the years, UH in the armed services, back
Speaker 1: to the Revolutionary Revolutionary War, that I UM was there
Speaker 1: in ninety three when the first Trade Center terrorists detect occurred,
Speaker 1: and I knew in a sense and believed, as many
Speaker 1: of us did, they would come back. And when I
Speaker 1: looked up and knew that most of my friends and
Speaker 1: colleagues were certainly gone, I had this chance, and uh,
Speaker 1: I was not going to squander one minute of it.
Speaker 1: And and so many people from Canada. Fitzgerald died that day.
Speaker 1: Was over six hundred, right, six hundred and fifty eight.
Speaker 1: That's just so hard to believe. Meanwhile, you and you
Speaker 1: and Greg, and your husband is such a sweetheart. Please
Speaker 1: give him my best. You had another son after this,
Speaker 1: You have a son named Jagger. So Tyler is now
Speaker 1: twenty one, and Jagger is now eleven. Is that right?
Speaker 1: But we just turned twelve. Tyler just turned twenty one,
Speaker 1: and he's at Jay's alma matera the wonderful Trinity College,
Speaker 1: and Jon Mohlner's alm alma mater, Trinity College and Hertford. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, Jagger turned twelve. And I don't know how
Speaker 1: many of you have children, but twelve is like fifteen.
Speaker 1: And I've never been so wrong in my life. Uh,
Speaker 1: this was a reprieve to be here. To this evening,
Speaker 1: so like happy to say goodbye to my young boss. Um,
Speaker 1: I am just so happy to see you. How so
Speaker 1: life today. You have the challenges of having an adolescent son,
Speaker 1: but and you're you're You're also still this tough businesswoman.
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you. You've got to start up,
Speaker 1: You're working, you know, really hard on that. So things are,
Speaker 1: things are good. How would you describe your life today?
Speaker 1: I mean, they are what they are. I think for
Speaker 1: most of us, they're wonderful days and challenging days. But
Speaker 1: the blessing of having the moment to prevail over the
Speaker 1: fears of failure, which were very easy to let go
Speaker 1: after nine eleven, has um really given me an opportunity
Speaker 1: to be in a space of doing what I need
Speaker 1: to do in terms of supporting things like sanctuary for
Speaker 1: families and I pads for soldiers and helping wounded and
Speaker 1: injured soldiers and starting a startup based on social commerce
Speaker 1: and the nexus of privacy for consumers and allowing us
Speaker 1: all to get paid for it. So that's a long
Speaker 1: winded answer, but well, it sounds like your life is
Speaker 1: very full and rich and purposeful. It is purposeful, yes,
Speaker 1: if not always divinely well choreographed. I'm trying to get
Speaker 1: from here to there, and you have been certainly someone
Speaker 1: I've always looked to as a woman that has led
Speaker 1: the way for so many of us. I feel so
Speaker 1: blessed and privileged that I got to meet you, Lauren,
Speaker 1: and I'm so proud of everything you've accomplished and all
Speaker 1: that you've become despite everything that you face. So thank
Speaker 1: you for coming back and and being here with us tonight.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you Laura and Manning. Everyone. We'll be
Speaker 1: back with more highlights from my book tour right after this.
Speaker 1: At each city I traveled to for my book tour,
Speaker 1: I reconnected with some of the people I've met during
Speaker 1: my career who have left a lasting impression, people like
Speaker 1: Tom and Pam Bosley, who I got to know through
Speaker 1: a documentary I produced in called Under the Gun. The
Speaker 1: Bosley's have worked tirelessly to reduce the amount of gun violence,
Speaker 1: not only here in Chicago, but all across the country.
Speaker 1: They've joined forces with other families and are a real
Speaker 1: example to me of turning their tragedy into action. I
Speaker 1: just love them so much, so please welcome Tom and
Speaker 1: Pam Bosley. Tom and Pam lost their oldest son, Terrell,
Speaker 1: to gun violence in two thousand and six. He was
Speaker 1: just a nineteen year old kid on his way to
Speaker 1: band practice at his local church. His murder remains unsolved
Speaker 1: to this day. You know, it's been fifteen years since
Speaker 1: you lost Terrell and he would be thirty three years
Speaker 1: old today, which is so hard to believe. And you
Speaker 1: all did everything right. You kept him busy, you kept
Speaker 1: him involved in sports and extracurricular activities. It just broke
Speaker 1: my heart to see him on those videos. I'm sure
Speaker 1: it's just crushing for you all. But um, what you
Speaker 1: know when you think about Terrell today, what do you
Speaker 1: think about Tom? What? Well, probably by now we would
Speaker 1: be grandparents hopefully, and uh, you know, we just miss
Speaker 1: everything about him, the music, the personality. And you know
Speaker 1: a lot of his friends have are now they're grown
Speaker 1: and they're married wickid, so you know when we see them,
Speaker 1: we flashed back a little bit. You have two other sons,
Speaker 1: Trey and Terrest. I know, tell us how they're doing. Actually, trade,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with the rest. So this is my
Speaker 1: mildest son. So that's the one nobody never sees. But
Speaker 1: he's my one that keeps me a courage. Um. He
Speaker 1: was actually closer to Terrel. So he the one to
Speaker 1: be like, mom, you've got this, um and he's always
Speaker 1: in the background. But Tray is my uh my rock my,
Speaker 1: he's my baby. But he's an activist. He's outspoken. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's the one that more like me, you know as
Speaker 1: far as coming out talking about tell story. So his
Speaker 1: goal is he's an activist and his goal is to
Speaker 1: um reduce gun violence. And I know that when you
Speaker 1: lost Terrell, you felt so alone and and and there
Speaker 1: was nobody to really talk to about what you all
Speaker 1: were going through. And that was the impetus for you
Speaker 1: to start this incredible organization called Purpose over Pain. Tell
Speaker 1: us about that we did that first year when um,
Speaker 1: my life went throughout our life was destroyed because through
Speaker 1: our life was taken. I try to take my life twice, UM,
Speaker 1: so I didn't have nobody to turn to. And what
Speaker 1: I myself, um A Nettop She's Blare the MoMA Blair
Speaker 1: Hope who was killed on the bus and some more
Speaker 1: of us. We came together and we started Purpose over
Speaker 1: Pain because we knew God had a purpose for our life.
Speaker 1: So what we started doing was supporting other parents like us, uh,
Speaker 1: because we didn't you know. Actually, throughout the years we've
Speaker 1: been meeting people who who didn't make it, you know,
Speaker 1: because of this. So we support parents by doing events
Speaker 1: like uh, this Christmas coming up, it's a hard time
Speaker 1: for us. So we actually put together sneakers ball Um.
Speaker 1: We do different things to support them, and we advocate
Speaker 1: for comments since gun maagers, we mentor young people. So
Speaker 1: we just try to stay busy helping each other and
Speaker 1: try to get our cases stived because in the city
Speaker 1: of Chicago, over the cases we may unstave. So we
Speaker 1: walked the streets and we try to solve our cases.
Speaker 1: So we united together to help each other and just
Speaker 1: to support each other. And you won't get phone calls,
Speaker 1: I mean at all hours of the night from grieving parents,
Speaker 1: which must be so difficult. Tom, It's tough because it
Speaker 1: never stops. Um. You know, you hear about some cases
Speaker 1: in the news, but then we get the ones you
Speaker 1: don't hear about in the news, and and every time
Speaker 1: you get that call, it takes you back to the
Speaker 1: day that you got that call, you know, so you're
Speaker 1: constantly reliving it. So at times it's difficult. But the
Speaker 1: joy you get, if there's a joy, is that you're
Speaker 1: helping a parent get through this process as best you
Speaker 1: possibly can so that you know, um, they can keep
Speaker 1: the memory of their kids alive and we can bind
Speaker 1: together and hopefully make a difference. Just have support, right
Speaker 1: exactly because it's it's we get like forty five phone
Speaker 1: calls a week. Actually have the number in my pocket.
Speaker 1: I've brought it with me, um, because we really need
Speaker 1: to always say these numbers. UM. Year to date here
Speaker 1: in Chicago, we had three thousand, nine hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: eight people shot and six dred and eighty eight people
Speaker 1: did and nobody really talked about it. And and November
Speaker 1: just you know, we just started November, we had fifty
Speaker 1: two people shot and we have twelve dead. And these
Speaker 1: are the phone calls we get every single day. We're
Speaker 1: getting forty five calls a week trying to help buried children.
Speaker 1: And that's what purpose of the paying do we make
Speaker 1: donations to burying our children Because some people don't have insurance,
Speaker 1: they don't have anything, so they you know, want to
Speaker 1: cremate their children because they don't have money to bury them.
Speaker 1: So UM, we we there for them, We support them
Speaker 1: all kinds of ways. Why why hasn't it gotten better? Um?
Speaker 1: You know the statistics in Chicago or worse than ever.
Speaker 1: And I know that the governor has been very supportive
Speaker 1: and is channeling a lot of money million dollars to
Speaker 1: to to address some of the systemic issues that are
Speaker 1: creating these problems. But you know, how do you how
Speaker 1: do you explain that it's it's worse than effort? You know,
Speaker 1: I was, I was speaking earlier. It's a will issue
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Um, just like the pandemic. You know,
Speaker 1: if you can bring resources together to come up with
Speaker 1: a cure, uh for a vaccine, you can do the
Speaker 1: same thing for the pandemic of gun violence. But there
Speaker 1: is a will, there's a lack of a will to
Speaker 1: h to do that. Well, I know one thing that
Speaker 1: gives you hope is your son Trey has become an
Speaker 1: activist as well, and he gave a speech um at
Speaker 1: the the two thousand eighteen March for Our Lives event.
Speaker 1: I was actually there in Washington, d C. Let's show
Speaker 1: tray in action. It's time to care about all communities eating.
Speaker 1: It's time to stop judging some communities it's worth as
Speaker 1: some community word. It's time to stop judging you that
Speaker 1: look like me or my brother, that come from a
Speaker 1: privates communities any different than anyone else. It's time for
Speaker 1: America to notice that everyday shootings are everyday problems. I'll
Speaker 1: close with this Pope by Marlotha King was said, we
Speaker 1: must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope. I
Speaker 1: said this to say, no matter the hurdles we may
Speaker 1: face along this journey, we must remain hopeful, and we
Speaker 1: must continue to stand together and fight for the lines
Speaker 1: that we deserve. Thank that's awesome. I know you're very
Speaker 1: proud of him, aren't you. Yes, we are. Well. I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful that you both came to to actually see
Speaker 1: me and to share your story with everybody in the audience.
Speaker 1: Thank you for everything you're doing. And let's not let
Speaker 1: four years past before I get to visit with you
Speaker 1: all again. Thank you, Sam and Tom Boss everyone. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, I met up with Amy Copeland in a
Speaker 1: zip lining accident resulted in a gash in Amy's leg
Speaker 1: that required twenty two staples. The wound was infected by
Speaker 1: a flesh eating bacteria that's incredibly rare, but also incredibly deadly.
Speaker 1: It cut off her blood flow and five of Amy's
Speaker 1: organs shut down completely. She was on life support for
Speaker 1: several days. To save her, doctors had to amputate both
Speaker 1: of her hands, her left leg, and most of her right.
Speaker 1: She was twenty four years old. The last time I
Speaker 1: got to talk to Amy was back in just a
Speaker 1: few months after her injury. So much has changed since then. Well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about sort of what's been going on with
Speaker 1: you physically, because I know you still do occupational therapy.
Speaker 1: What twice a week? Still tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about the healing because you continue to work and to
Speaker 1: make sure that you're as as independent as you possibly can.
Speaker 1: Tell us what that involves. Ye, So physically, I'm a swimmer,
Speaker 1: so I swim. I woke up and swam a mile
Speaker 1: this morning. Wow. And I'm also a registered yoga teacher,
Speaker 1: so I also practice yoga on a daily basis, and
Speaker 1: I work out with weights because having a disability, one
Speaker 1: of the most important things is that I'm fit. And look,
Speaker 1: I know you you are a beast in the gym. Amy,
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Do you work out every single day about
Speaker 1: five or six days a week. I try to give myself,
Speaker 1: you know, even God rested for a day. And how
Speaker 1: important that must be incredibly important for you to make
Speaker 1: sure that you're as strong as you possibly can be, right,
Speaker 1: especially shoulders strength to prevent injuries. I use my shoulders
Speaker 1: and compensate with my shoulders for a lot of movements,
Speaker 1: So being able to keep that strength is really important
Speaker 1: to protect my body. So let's talk about what you're doing.
Speaker 1: First of all, tell everyone what you got your two
Speaker 1: master's degrees in show off um and what you're doing
Speaker 1: with those degrees because it's so interesting. Yeah. So, first
Speaker 1: master's degree in psychology, second in social work. I'm now
Speaker 1: a licensed clinical social worker in Georgia and in Arizona,
Speaker 1: and I run my own counseling group. So I have
Speaker 1: about eight therapists who I direct and consult with, and
Speaker 1: we create affordable mental health opportunities for people in Atlanta
Speaker 1: who may not have health insurance coverage, so with fees
Speaker 1: as low as thirty five dollars. And then I also
Speaker 1: run a nonprofit organization which is so Amy Copeland Foundation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so tell everyone what the Amy Copeland Foundation does, because
Speaker 1: I think it's so awesome what you're trying to do,
Speaker 1: and we also want to sell these nice people that
Speaker 1: you're still fundraising for it, so explain what it is.
Speaker 1: So our mission at Amy Copeland Foundation is to bridge
Speaker 1: the gap between nature and accessibility, particular for people who
Speaker 1: are in wheelchairs. One thing I realized waking up with
Speaker 1: the disability is I didn't have the same freedom I
Speaker 1: used to to be in nature, and that was what
Speaker 1: I studied. After a while, I realized people in wheelchairs
Speaker 1: really needed that most. So we're doing that in two ways.
Speaker 1: One is by creating accessible workshop retreats, so we go
Speaker 1: to beautiful places in nature and people can come out
Speaker 1: and learn pain management and self regulation techniques for improving mental, physical,
Speaker 1: and spiritual well being. In addition to that, we just
Speaker 1: started our All Terrained Georgia program, which actually allows people
Speaker 1: in wheelchairs to visit their own community parks any time
Speaker 1: they want with their family and friends, which is so great.
Speaker 1: And I know that these wheelchairs are expensive, and so
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that you get them and
Speaker 1: make them accessible for people who need them all across
Speaker 1: the state of Georgia and all all state parks. Right
Speaker 1: that's right, and right now we actually are doing our
Speaker 1: been cutting next Monday for the first ten shares, which
Speaker 1: will be housed at ten state parks within about an
Speaker 1: hour or two of Metro Atlanta, and those will be
Speaker 1: available for free rental by people with disabilities starting in April.
Speaker 1: This is the first program of its kind in the
Speaker 1: United States, but I've already gotten interest from North Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee,
Speaker 1: South Carolina. That's where all want to start programs there.
Speaker 1: So we're out. He's so great. I was gonna ask you,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to replicate it in other states across
Speaker 1: the country. And you know, I know that you that
Speaker 1: you do ecotherapy, So is that mean sort of the
Speaker 1: idea of healing out in nature, and that's why you
Speaker 1: have these workshops where you bring folks who kind of
Speaker 1: you believe in in that kind of healing and the
Speaker 1: power of nature to help people, right, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I studied ecopsychology, and what we learned there is that
Speaker 1: we're from the earth, We're related to the earth, we
Speaker 1: are a part of the earth, and so being pulled
Speaker 1: out of nature and being really sedentarian indoors can create
Speaker 1: a lot of secondary issues for people who already have
Speaker 1: physical disabilities, so the idea that it is only natural
Speaker 1: for us to be in nature, and there's all sorts
Speaker 1: of impacts that has on the human psyche. I know
Speaker 1: that you are. You struck me even I mean even
Speaker 1: when I met you all those years ago, four months
Speaker 1: after you were dealing with everything. You are an incredibly
Speaker 1: positive person, but you also deal with some challenges and
Speaker 1: there have been dark days for you to amy and
Speaker 1: and how have you gotten through that. I know that
Speaker 1: you're a big believer in kind of seizing on those
Speaker 1: those tough emotions and letting that happen. And you have
Speaker 1: an interesting story about falling down and just kind of
Speaker 1: literally mentally and physically collapsing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: right after Actually I got the van on your TV show.
Speaker 1: I got donated my wheelchair accessible van and I would
Speaker 1: drive down to Valdosta. And the very first time I
Speaker 1: ever went down there, they brought me this tiny little
Speaker 1: shower bench to use. It was my first time showering
Speaker 1: outside my house. And as soon as I reached for
Speaker 1: the shampoo, I slipped right off and I was all alone.
Speaker 1: So I reached for the grab bar. That's what those
Speaker 1: are there for. Right, my arms slipped in between the
Speaker 1: grab bar and the wall, and I'm sitting on the
Speaker 1: floor of the shower with my arm twisted behind me,
Speaker 1: and y'all, I just started screaming and crying and it
Speaker 1: was amazing what happened after my twenty minute timber tantrum. Nothing.
Speaker 1: I was still sitting on the floor of the shower
Speaker 1: of my arm saying the grab bar, but I felt
Speaker 1: a lot better. And it was kind of in that
Speaker 1: moment that I realized life is this whole wave of
Speaker 1: emotion and we have to experience all of it. And
Speaker 1: once all the emotion came out of me, I saw
Speaker 1: the conditioner there, and I've learned being in a wheelchair
Speaker 1: you can dive or anything with duct tape or w
Speaker 1: D forty, and that conditioner might as well have been
Speaker 1: w D forty because I was then able to squirt
Speaker 1: it on my arm and a wriggle free. But I
Speaker 1: truly believe that it was experiencing all of it that
Speaker 1: allowed me to have the clarity. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: how I deal with it, by inviting in whatever experiences
Speaker 1: I have without judgment and letting them move, because when
Speaker 1: they get trapped, that's when they turn into something else.
Speaker 1: That's a good life lesson, I think for everyone right
Speaker 1: to let to let it go and to feel the
Speaker 1: pain so you can move on. And I know meditation
Speaker 1: has helped you enormously with pain management as well, right, Amy,
Speaker 1: That's right. And you know meditation is really about witnessing
Speaker 1: our experience without judgment, just seeing what is and breathing
Speaker 1: through it and being with it. And so that's how
Speaker 1: I've managed to control my pain is actually through relaxing.
Speaker 1: Usually when we experience pain, we tense against it, we
Speaker 1: try to get away from it, and that creates a
Speaker 1: more painful experience typically than the initial stimulus. So what
Speaker 1: I've learned is that through relaxing eases the pain and
Speaker 1: I can welcome and breathe through anything, which means I'm
Speaker 1: really not scared of very much anymore. Freathe through it.
Speaker 1: Amazing and and and and getting to a high point.
Speaker 1: You got married last year. I'm so happy for you. So, um,
Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about your husband. How you met.
Speaker 1: I know he shy and kind of introverted. I wanted
Speaker 1: him to come tonight, but he told Amy, go do
Speaker 1: your thing. I'll be waiting at home. But he's a teacher,
Speaker 1: tell me about it. Yes, he's a ninth grade teacher,
Speaker 1: so teacher, social worker. We get along real well. We
Speaker 1: have great communication, great communication. He would be rolling his
Speaker 1: eyes right now if he was here, because he would
Speaker 1: say I over communicate. But that's another story. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we met after my injury. The relationship I was in
Speaker 1: at the time did not make it through that trauma,
Speaker 1: which was one of the most heartbreaking parts of it
Speaker 1: for me. But I got back into the dating world
Speaker 1: and a wheelchair and all and online, mind you, very
Speaker 1: interesting experiences were had. But luckily I met this one
Speaker 1: and he saved me from all of that. Um. It
Speaker 1: turned out we had about fifty mutual friends on social
Speaker 1: media when we met, so he actually went to the
Speaker 1: same school I did, so we had an instant recognition
Speaker 1: and connection. And I'm so happy for you. What's his name, Stephen, Stephen.
Speaker 1: We'll tell Stephen. We're so happy for him and for you.
Speaker 1: And before before you leave, you once wrote about your
Speaker 1: accident and your life and you said, if you had
Speaker 1: to do it all over again, you wouldn't change a thing,
Speaker 1: And that, to me is quite a miraculous statement. Amy Copeland,
Speaker 1: Why tell me how were you able to say that?
Speaker 1: And why are you able to think that? Well, Stephen one.
Speaker 1: But also I've always had this much energy, Katie, and
Speaker 1: now I get invited here to talk to you and
Speaker 1: to share this message with all these beautiful people, and
Speaker 1: to start a program, the first of its kind. This
Speaker 1: is really exciting for me to be able to make
Speaker 1: this impact, and for me this is the reason, this
Speaker 1: is the meaning that this happened to me, and for
Speaker 1: that I will be forever grateful. Well, you're my hero,
Speaker 1: Amy Copeland. Honestly, thank you for coming. Thank you, I mean,
Speaker 1: come on when we come back. The story of one
Speaker 1: of the most remarkable women I had ever met. One
Speaker 1: of my last stops was to the Golden City, San Francisco. Uh.
Speaker 1: The fog made things a little tricky for us to
Speaker 1: get here, but we got here and we made it.
Speaker 1: Thank God. The Bay Area is home to one Miss
Speaker 1: oral Lee Brown. For more than two decades, the Oral
Speaker 1: Lee Brown Foundation has been paying for kids who are
Speaker 1: living in some of Oakland's toughest neighborhoods to go to college.
Speaker 1: It all started on a whim after Earl met a
Speaker 1: little girl who asked for change outside a corner store.
Speaker 1: It was at that moment that Oral realized the kids
Speaker 1: in these neighborhoods were in trouble and college was their
Speaker 1: way out. So in n she adopted a class of
Speaker 1: twenty three first graders, and she made a promise to
Speaker 1: them that if they graduated from high school, she would
Speaker 1: pay for each and every one of them to go
Speaker 1: to college. Now Oral wasn't some millionaire. She was a
Speaker 1: real estate agent who grew up picking cotton in Mississippi.
Speaker 1: But Oral kept that promise and she didn't stop there.
Speaker 1: How cool is Orally Brown? So I'm super excited because
Speaker 1: Orally is back, and please welcome her to the stage.
Speaker 1: Miss Orally drow So, Um, you adopted that first class
Speaker 1: of first graders, thirty twenty three kids thirty four years ago,
Speaker 1: and since then, you, Orally Brown, has have sent one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty two kids to college. Where me and
Speaker 1: God God more than me, you and God where I mean,
Speaker 1: you were just one of the most extraordinary people I've
Speaker 1: ever met in my whole career. Orally really, so I
Speaker 1: want I want people to learn a little more about you.
Speaker 1: Orally tell us about your childhood, because that makes your
Speaker 1: story even more phenomenal, well good evening. Um. I was
Speaker 1: probably born in the worst state in the Union, and
Speaker 1: that was in Mississippi, and I started working at the
Speaker 1: age of eight. My father had a saying is that
Speaker 1: if you ate, you contributed to the food. So if
Speaker 1: you ate it, you had to help bring it in,
Speaker 1: take care of it, or pick it a hot chocolate
Speaker 1: or what have you. So at the age of eight,
Speaker 1: my mother started me cooking. I was too little at
Speaker 1: the time to know what a warm was, so she
Speaker 1: would take and pick the greens, but everything else onmade cakes.
Speaker 1: At the age of eight, I was making it and
Speaker 1: I was standing in the cottonfield and I will just
Speaker 1: tell God, please get me out of here. I will
Speaker 1: do whatever. And you were one of twelve one or
Speaker 1: twelve kids the baby set up. A little before my
Speaker 1: twelfth birthday. My mother sent me to stay with my
Speaker 1: sister because she had eight kids, and so kids was
Speaker 1: the least thing on my mind. And so when you
Speaker 1: make a promise to God, sometimes he will make sure
Speaker 1: that you keep it. Because see my promise was Lord
Speaker 1: getting me away from Mississippi. I'll do whatever you know.
Speaker 1: And so from Babyson to adopting twenty three students and
Speaker 1: at the time, I'm making for to five thousand miles
Speaker 1: a year. So I was crazy. You work and and
Speaker 1: and you. So you started, before you started this foundation,
Speaker 1: you were doing it on your own. Early you were
Speaker 1: putting money away every single month. You learned to do that,
Speaker 1: you were investing it. And by the time those first
Speaker 1: graders graduated, you paid for nineteen kids to go to college.
Speaker 1: How in the world did you do that? You're like
Speaker 1: an investment gene. No, when God is mother climate, it
Speaker 1: would go a long ways. And You're right. By the
Speaker 1: time they graduated out of mind forty five thousand knowledge
Speaker 1: each year, I was able to save ten thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: still paid my ties, and still paid my obligation. And
Speaker 1: one of my friends said to me one day, or
Speaker 1: how do you do it? And I reminded her that
Speaker 1: I lived at one time off for two dollars a day.
Speaker 1: Let me repeat that, two dollars a day, and so
Speaker 1: living off for two thousand a day, then four to
Speaker 1: five thousand, all I was a millionaire. And some sense,
Speaker 1: what would these kids have done without you? Orally I
Speaker 1: was thinking about that all these kids that you have helped,
Speaker 1: because they were from tough circumstances, weren't they. Um At
Speaker 1: that time, there was at least four or five young
Speaker 1: people's killed in Oakland every week. You could go to
Speaker 1: the film home and it's almost like a repeat now
Speaker 1: with the COVID. But the COVID was a disease. The
Speaker 1: killing was manifest right there in the Stokeland and it
Speaker 1: was no way out. And the kids would tell me,
Speaker 1: and so many I'm saying, Mama Brown, if it was
Speaker 1: not for you, I would be dead. And I would say, baby,
Speaker 1: don't say that. No, Mom is the truth. And so
Speaker 1: I think we all have an obligation to do. And
Speaker 1: once again a child, a kid, not me, not me,
Speaker 1: but see God said, oh, yes, you made me a
Speaker 1: promise to get you out, and you will do. He
Speaker 1: got me out of Mississippi and I did. And you know,
Speaker 1: you stay in touch with some of these kids. I mean,
Speaker 1: after all, the first group would have graduated twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: So do you keep in touch with them? And and
Speaker 1: do you see them out in the world thriving? And
Speaker 1: and that must give you so much satisfaction. It does.
Speaker 1: And not only do I say in touch with them,
Speaker 1: they say in touch with me, And they remind me.
Speaker 1: You know, mom, you gotta be there for my wedding.
Speaker 1: You gotta be there from when I had my first baby. No,
Speaker 1: Mama Brown is gonna Oh no, Mom, you gotta be there.
Speaker 1: So No, they are family. We are a family, and
Speaker 1: I think the success probably come from some of that
Speaker 1: because one of the things I've tried to do is
Speaker 1: always sent at least two kids to college together. There's
Speaker 1: success rate doubles and maybe even triple because that's right
Speaker 1: when one want to leave the No, no, just state
Speaker 1: to the semester and then let's see what happened and
Speaker 1: so it works out. So No, they they're on their way.
Speaker 1: They are on their way. I wish that was some
Speaker 1: of them. You know. When I interviewed you on the
Speaker 1: Today's Show back in two thousand two, I surprised you
Speaker 1: with a couple of your students, and one of them
Speaker 1: is Jeffrey Tony, And I'm super excited because Jeffrey is
Speaker 1: also here tonight and he was one of the first graduates.
Speaker 1: So Jeffrey, come out and tell us how you're doing.
Speaker 1: Come closer, Jeffrey. I mean, it's so thank you for
Speaker 1: first of all, it's great to see you again. Almost insane.
Speaker 1: Is that you're one of the first of the graduating
Speaker 1: students that that Ms Brown supported and and sent to college.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about your journey, where
Speaker 1: you went, and how you're doing now and what you're
Speaker 1: doing now. Well, thanks for having me. Uh. This lady
Speaker 1: sitting to the right of me, I consider her a
Speaker 1: real life angel. She saved my life. I grew up
Speaker 1: in Oakland, poverty, single parent, home, drugs, what you name
Speaker 1: it violence. He's seeing things you shouldn't see at a
Speaker 1: young age, and uh, you don't really have dreams and hopes.
Speaker 1: But this lady came in and made a promise to
Speaker 1: adopt the entire first grade class because of an experience
Speaker 1: that she had, and it saved my life. Uh in
Speaker 1: n I graduated uh Castlemount High School and I attended
Speaker 1: Columbia College in Chicago and I studied business management. So
Speaker 1: that is awesome. You know. UM, A lot of people
Speaker 1: through the years have asked you, Jeffrey, where would you
Speaker 1: be without Oralie Brown? And what do you tell him?
Speaker 1: Dead or in jail? J She saved my life. Like literally,
Speaker 1: the things that I was engaged in in high school
Speaker 1: I could have easily died could easily with the jail.
Speaker 1: But I was out hustling because I was homeless at sixteen,
Speaker 1: so I was out trying to feed myself and just survive.
Speaker 1: And that opportunity came and I ran with it, jump
Speaker 1: on that plane, went to Chicago and here I am,
Speaker 1: and tell us what you're doing today and how you're doing,
Speaker 1: and all is well. Of course, because of Corona, things
Speaker 1: is a little shaky. Um, but I've turned all of
Speaker 1: my passions and the hobbies into the revenue stream, so
Speaker 1: things that I enjoyed doing, like graphic design. Um, I
Speaker 1: have a recording studio fly Drone, so I do a
Speaker 1: lot of video work. I just released a poem book
Speaker 1: called Poetry Hidden behind the Heart. It's on Amazon. Uh
Speaker 1: you can check that out. And UH, still doing music.
Speaker 1: I just got a song picked up from UM sitcom
Speaker 1: called All American, and they picked up one of my
Speaker 1: songs because and look, Orally is very proud of you,
Speaker 1: and I know that you have a found dation now
Speaker 1: and you've got a whole team that helps you out
Speaker 1: because um, you're seventy eight now seventy six, sorry, but
Speaker 1: I know that you want to continue this legacy and
Speaker 1: you want to pay it forward. Hand this off so
Speaker 1: someone picks up whenever you decide that you need to
Speaker 1: take a break. Um, so how are you doing that?
Speaker 1: You know, Katie, Honestly, the only thing that can help
Speaker 1: some students is to be there twenty four hours a day,
Speaker 1: and a mother and a father. No matter how good
Speaker 1: you are, you cannot do it. And so my goal
Speaker 1: is to have a boarding school. I have met with
Speaker 1: some individuals that almost agree with me. Uh, there's one
Speaker 1: boarding school in Pineywood, Mississippi, another one in Chicago, and
Speaker 1: then Marva Collins in in um Cincinnati, and so it's
Speaker 1: the way to free them. You know, with a boarding school,
Speaker 1: they are there twenty four seven, so you know they're
Speaker 1: gonna get the nutrition. They're gonna get the food. Half
Speaker 1: of the kids failed because they're not in school. But
Speaker 1: with a boarding school, there's no truancy. If you're not
Speaker 1: in the classroom, that Mama Brown is gonna be up
Speaker 1: in the dorm or someone that looked like me and
Speaker 1: both of us cannot stay at no dorm between eight
Speaker 1: and three, so you know, we just can't do it.
Speaker 1: So someone have to leave, and it's not gonna be
Speaker 1: me and so you know, I think that once we
Speaker 1: get the boarding school up and running, we will be
Speaker 1: able to say at least four or five students per
Speaker 1: year right in the Bay area, because the need is there.
Speaker 1: And and where do you get your huge heart? I mean,
Speaker 1: to to sacrifice so much and to give so much
Speaker 1: two kids who have so little, I guess the one
Speaker 1: thing that always come to my mind. And we was
Speaker 1: in Mississippi and my mother, just like I said, she
Speaker 1: would pick the greens. Because I'm eight years old, I
Speaker 1: don't know what a warm meals. I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. If he's supposed to be in
Speaker 1: the pot, he's supposed to be down on the floor,
Speaker 1: you know. And maybe they meet for the greens, I
Speaker 1: don't know. And my mother had put the meat in
Speaker 1: the pot to cook the greens. And one of the
Speaker 1: neighbors came down to my mother's house and wanted to
Speaker 1: know if she had some salt pork meat. Her mother
Speaker 1: was cooking greens, and I'm looking at my mother put
Speaker 1: the salt pork meat in the pot, so I know
Speaker 1: it's no more, and so I'm waiting for it. Say no,
Speaker 1: my mother takes the pot off the stove, take the
Speaker 1: piece of salt pork meat out, cut it in half,
Speaker 1: put one piece back in the pot and give the
Speaker 1: other two sister to take the Miss Bess of Main.
Speaker 1: And I said, Mama, that was our meat. She said, still,
Speaker 1: I was the ones in the body, the one that
Speaker 1: I gave the siss. It's going to Miss BESSI man.
Speaker 1: And so if you can share a piece the slip
Speaker 1: for me, God knows, I can give away half of
Speaker 1: what I have. Yea, Orally and Jeffrey, I'm so happy
Speaker 1: to see you, more happy to uk you know. I
Speaker 1: love you. I love you well yeah, yeah, well about
Speaker 1: my cative right back at you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: And if people want to help and support the work
Speaker 1: you're doing, how can they do that. It's the Early
Speaker 1: Orally Brown Foundation dot org and the phone numbers five ten,
Speaker 1: four three or three or four one. Just go on
Speaker 1: the website and look at Early Brown. They tell me
Speaker 1: it's eighteen pages of literature and students and you know,
Speaker 1: all the information is there. Well, thank you for everything
Speaker 1: you've done. Thank you Jeffrey much love you. That was
Speaker 1: Orally Brown. We'll have links to all the organizations we've
Speaker 1: mentioned in this podcast. The episode description, and if you're
Speaker 1: able or in the giving mood this holiday season, I
Speaker 1: hope you'll consider donating to their very worthy causes. A
Speaker 1: huge thank you to Celeste Corkran, Lauren Manning, Tom and
Speaker 1: Pam Bosley, Amy Copeland, Oral Lee Brown and all of
Speaker 1: the people I got to talk to on my tour.
Speaker 1: And actually there's more of the tour to share. This
Speaker 1: may be the last episode of the season, but keep
Speaker 1: your ear to the podcast because over the break will
Speaker 1: be releasing a few bonus episodes featuring some really fun
Speaker 1: and famous friends who joined me on my book tour.
Speaker 1: Next Question is taking a little hiatus, but we'll be
Speaker 1: back with a whole new season, new guests, new hot
Speaker 1: topics in early Meanwhile, Happy holidays to you and yours
Speaker 1: from all of us at k c M. Next Question
Speaker 1: with Katie Kurig. The production of I Heeartmedia and Katie
Speaker 1: Curic Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz.
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements
Speaker 1: and Adrianna Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by
Speaker 1: Derrek Clements. For more information about today's episode or To
Speaker 1: sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go
Speaker 1: to Katie currek dot com. You can also find me
Speaker 1: at Katie curic on Instagram and all my social media channels.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.