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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Good

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Speaker 1: Monday morning, Welcome back to Counterpoints Breaking counter Breaking Counterpoints.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ryan grim my co host here, Emily Dashinsky, Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Saga are out today. They will be back. We'll

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Speaker 1: be here tomorrow, they'll be back after that, that's right,

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Speaker 1: and we'll be then back here on Friday as jupial.

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Speaker 1: So you're getting a heavy dose of the Counterpoints this week,

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Speaker 1: but you see this Friday in here, right Friday or

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Speaker 1: no matter what, because it is Friday. Fun Yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: bring the Friday mentality to Monday and Tuesday, and then

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Speaker 1: krystalin Sager can bring the breaking points mentality and just

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Speaker 1: reassure everybody with their calming presence. There you go, I

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Speaker 1: can do it. It's a tough show today, particularly if

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Speaker 1: you're in the Belgarad province of Russia, if you're in

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Speaker 1: Kiev in Ukraine, the war has taken an uglier and

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Speaker 1: uglier turn. So least so we have footage of these

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Speaker 1: suicide drone strikes that may have been Runnian provided we

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Speaker 1: don't know. We'll learn more about this, but this is

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Speaker 1: this is footage from Kiev that is getting just battered

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Speaker 1: by these drone strikes, which are and when we say

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Speaker 1: suicide drones obviously doesn't mean there's a pilot in there.

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Speaker 1: What it means is that the drone itself becomes becomes

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Speaker 1: the missile. So what's interesting, Yeah, you can see the

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Speaker 1: video here. According to Ukraine, three deaths so far just

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Speaker 1: this morning. These drones have a ring of about twelve

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty miles. That's according to Insider think about that.

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Speaker 1: What that means for Russia with these drones is they're

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Speaker 1: able to bring them to Kiev to Kiev from pretty

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Speaker 1: far away, which is a huge advantage. Then again, there

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Speaker 1: are they are fairly easy to be shot down from

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Speaker 1: what I understand, and with a range. If it's a

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Speaker 1: suicide drone, it doesn't need to get back right like,

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Speaker 1: that's the end of its mission exactly. And you know this,

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Speaker 1: this could be bringing open like an entire new chapter

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Speaker 1: of contemporary warfare because you know, twelve hundred kilometer or

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Speaker 1: twelve or twelve hundred miles even most cities in the

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Speaker 1: world could be hit by something like this, Yes, that

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Speaker 1: don't you know, Like you said, you can try to

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Speaker 1: shoot them out of the sky if you see them coming,

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Speaker 1: but seeing them coming is the is the challenge. And

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Speaker 1: if you send enough like some are going to get through,

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Speaker 1: you could see these hitting anywhere basically inside of Russia.

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Speaker 1: You could see them hitting anywhere inside of Ukraine, Europe,

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Speaker 1: you know, any anywhere you know. And that's without launching

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Speaker 1: these intercontinental ballistic missiles. Right. Yeah, the drones themselves are obviously,

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Speaker 1: I mean the implications of this technology, especially in a

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Speaker 1: confrontation like this one a land war, are fairly incredible.

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Speaker 1: Then again, if they're easy to shoot down, it depends

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Speaker 1: on the state of the region that's being attacked, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's obviously going to be fairly easy for some

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Speaker 1: people to get rid of that front, right. And the

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Speaker 1: context here is, as everybody who's been watching this closely knows,

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Speaker 1: much of the Eastern Front has been collapse of. Russia's

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Speaker 1: defenses have just been completely collapsing, with the Southern Front,

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Speaker 1: you know, now facing real challenges. The mud season and

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Speaker 1: the winter is a thing that Russia is hoping is

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Speaker 1: going to lock this down. Plus they're three hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: conscripts that they're ramming to the front lines. The additional

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Speaker 1: context is the is the ridge in crimea being being

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Speaker 1: struck and being put you know, briefly out of you know,

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Speaker 1: still out of commissions as far as it seems, and

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Speaker 1: which then was followed by a massive kind of putin

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Speaker 1: retaliation on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, hitting you know, hitting power plants,

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Speaker 1: hitting you know, civilian centers, uh, you know, killing dozens

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Speaker 1: of people across Ukraine. He slowed it down, uh said,

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Speaker 1: we've accomplished what we need to accomplish for now. The

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Speaker 1: other thing that he accomplished, though, is he massively depleted

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Speaker 1: the Russian missile supply because of because of sanctions, and

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Speaker 1: because this the missile supplies just takes such a long

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Speaker 1: time to stock. There, you know, they they are they

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Speaker 1: are getting down to the bottom of the barrel of

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Speaker 1: their specifically of their their precision missiles, but also of

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Speaker 1: missiles in general. So that's so now you see the

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Speaker 1: Iranian regime, you know, supplying weapons, supplying drones, supplying missiles. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about the implications of

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Speaker 1: Iran potentially being involved here. The Ukrainian officials have said

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Speaker 1: that these are Iran made drones. As you mentioned, that's

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Speaker 1: obviously difficult to confirm at this moment, it seems likely

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Speaker 1: that's the case. What are the implications of that? What

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Speaker 1: does that mean going forward? Well, it's another own goal

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Speaker 1: for US foreign policy in a significant way because it

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Speaker 1: comes at the same time that you have Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 1: kind of siding with Russia and reducing output, which drives

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Speaker 1: up fuel prices, which then funds Russia's war effort. And

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Speaker 1: so Chris Murphy said on CNN recently, the most he

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Speaker 1: laid out in the most explicit way the actual kind

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Speaker 1: of US Saudi relationship. He was like look since World

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Speaker 1: all the different stuff that you're doing, and in exchange,

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Speaker 1: when the chips are down between US and Russia, you

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Speaker 1: He just said, like that, and that has been the deal.

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Speaker 1: It was just unusual to see a sitting senator who's

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Speaker 1: you know, high up in the Foreign Relations Committee just

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Speaker 1: say like that is the deal. And he's like, you

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Speaker 1: guys broke the deal. So we chose in this, in

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Speaker 1: this conflict in the Middle East between Saudi Arabia and Iran,

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Speaker 1: we chose the Iranian side. I mean, we chose the

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Speaker 1: Saudi side because we believe that was in our national interest.

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Speaker 1: Now chips are down, Iranians are siding with the Russians,

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Speaker 1: Saudis are siding with the Russians. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: seventy years of support of the most brutal authoritarians over

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Speaker 1: let alone you know all of the kind of moral

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Speaker 1: supporting Saudi Arabia. There was a pivot away from Saudi

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Speaker 1: Arabia under the Obama administration, where the Iran Nuclear Deal

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Speaker 1: was a huge part of it. There is a world

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Speaker 1: in which we have much closer ties to Iran. Iran

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Speaker 1: has an actual functioning, kind of cosmopolitan middle class that

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Speaker 1: is deeply supportive of the United States, that like, despite

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Speaker 1: everything we have done to Iran, supportive of the United States.

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Speaker 1: After nine to eleven, which the Saudis were involved in,

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Speaker 1: there were massive candlelight vigils all over Iran, and you

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Speaker 1: step back and you look at that, like, why which

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Speaker 1: side did we pick here? And why? And so now

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Speaker 1: here we are we've kind of jammed the Iranians into

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Speaker 1: a kind of forced alliance with Russia, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: coming back to Bidas and the drones. By the way,

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Speaker 1: one of the things they can do is send just

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Speaker 1: like a flock of them essentially to the point where

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Speaker 1: it over shoot down five and five go through yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and they explode upon impact. So basically those things can

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Speaker 1: come over into Kiev, I mean, a civilian center, and

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Speaker 1: it's a totally different ballgame. And the Iranian question year

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Speaker 1: uh Ryan in this context, in this sort of immediate

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Speaker 1: context of this week or this month, or this this

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Speaker 1: moment in the war. Assuming these are Iranian drones, what

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Speaker 1: is the sort of chain of like a cause and effect,

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Speaker 1: How did the Iranian drones end up getting from Russia

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Speaker 1: into Ukraine. Russia is buying the drones from Iran and

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Speaker 1: then from Russia sending them into Kiev. And and Russia's

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Speaker 1: is basically trading oil, right, you know, for the for

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Speaker 1: the for these weapons, right and as happy you know,

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Speaker 1: and Iran's yeah, and Iran is happy to do it.

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Speaker 1: So Iran gets Iran gets cheap gas, right, Russia gets

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Speaker 1: to replenish. It's it's stockpile here. That's the deal. And

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Speaker 1: ultimately and our front of the show, uh in Moscow,

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Speaker 1: Yegor Kotkin has has made the point that this this

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Speaker 1: war now has is no longer necessarily in Russia about Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: It's it's Putin is now fighting it for the domestic

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Speaker 1: pers So everything he's doing is now about managing kind

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Speaker 1: of the fallout of the end of the eventual end

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Speaker 1: of the war. And so the speech he gave just

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, it was a very clear

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Speaker 1: indication of it. Right, So he's punishing Ukraine right now

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Speaker 1: in order to just you know, get you know, in

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Speaker 1: order in order to get the Russian people to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: we see some successes here. You had a lot of

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Speaker 1: the hardliners pleased with his week of bombing of civilian infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: but then angry when he stopped and saying, well, what's

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Speaker 1: the point. If you're not going to absolutely flatten them

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Speaker 1: and send them back to the ninth century, then what

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Speaker 1: are you doing here? And other news on this front,

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Speaker 1: there are US intelligence officials who have relayed to the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post recently that Iran has agreed to send more

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Speaker 1: weapons to Russia that could include service to serface missiles

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Speaker 1: and more drones. Were told, so to your point, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: that you made earlier, is like that we could really

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Speaker 1: be looking here at a new chapter, right, and they

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Speaker 1: will eventually run out though like they only like even

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Speaker 1: even the United States stockpiles it turns out, you know,

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Speaker 1: can be drawn down significantly. And I don't think that

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Speaker 1: you can just drone and missile Ukraine into submission, right, No, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I mean if you look at what happened in World

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Speaker 1: War Two, you know, London was bombed for years and

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Speaker 1: they didn't one day finally say okay, you know what,

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Speaker 1: enough of that We surrendered. We're done. Like, that's not

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Speaker 1: that's not how wars end in this in this era

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Speaker 1: of total war. This is going to have to end

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Speaker 1: with negotiations. Ukraine now is aside from the crimea strike

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Speaker 1: which we don't precisely know, you know, who carried that out,

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Speaker 1: Ukraine was certainly celebrating it afterwards. We still don't have

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Speaker 1: clear information on the nord stream. Don't have information. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the other thing about this war, and in all

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Speaker 1: wars really, but in the Belgarad region of Russia, you've

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Speaker 1: had a couple of major development as well that have

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Speaker 1: that are changing the character of this war. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: the first and we have uh footage, we have footage

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Speaker 1: of this too. Yes, So so there was a shooting.

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Speaker 1: Uh uh. We'll go to the we'll go to the

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Speaker 1: footage in a second. So this was a mass shooting

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Speaker 1: carried out at a training center. Now, the Russian the

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Speaker 1: Russian government has been explicit in trying to say that

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Speaker 1: these were all recruits and volunteers. These are not draftees.

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Speaker 1: They don't want the impression out there that these are

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Speaker 1: people who have been conscripted into the war and as

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Speaker 1: soon as they get to the training center, start shooting

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Speaker 1: people full metal jacket style. Now take that with a

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Speaker 1: grained salt, like these very well could have been conscripts.

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Speaker 1: What they're also saying is that they were These were

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Speaker 1: to Tajik men, you know who were who were? Uh,

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Speaker 1: which which plays into the kind of ethno nationalism that

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Speaker 1: is at the heart of Putinism, saying that these are

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, outsiders and others who are who

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Speaker 1: are attacking the motherland or something along those lines. But

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Speaker 1: what you have is at least eleven you know, that's

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Speaker 1: what they're admitting to people, you know, soldiers who are

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Speaker 1: supposed to be getting trained and during a live fire drill. Uh,

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Speaker 1: these these two men just turned on everybody, just start

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Speaker 1: start blowing them away. So what was your reaction when

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Speaker 1: you start, because you know, I ever see a mass shooting,

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Speaker 1: You're like, oh, that's a United States story. Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's I want to ask you on that point

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Speaker 1: what this says about. Actually, you mentioned this just a

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Speaker 1: couple of moments ago earlier, about Putin's sort of new

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Speaker 1: messaging campaign for his own country about what this war

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Speaker 1: is about, especially as he is having to rely on

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Speaker 1: sending conscripts into war and kind of you know, going

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Speaker 1: to run all of these these different strategies. To you,

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Speaker 1: what does this say about his ability to like really

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Speaker 1: seriously carry that out, which I mean clearly he say

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Speaker 1: that as a central aspect of his strategy, being able

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Speaker 1: to muster this nationalism as a as a weapon, really

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Speaker 1: a massive weapon in terms of morale. There's a contradiction

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Speaker 1: in it because he is relying on the kind of

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Speaker 1: outer regions, the other ethnicity's withinside the Russian Federation to

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Speaker 1: make up a disproportionate share, just like we do here

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Speaker 1: in the United States, of his of his military. So

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Speaker 1: he's trying to have it both ways and it's and

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Speaker 1: it's not going to work. I think this mobilization, I

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Speaker 1: think is going to be He's going to prove to

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Speaker 1: be disastrous for him because, as has been talked about

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Speaker 1: by a number of different commentaries, what what Putin, what

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Speaker 1: what was so successful for Putin over several decades of

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Speaker 1: his rule was mass demobilization, was to make a contract

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Speaker 1: with the Russian people that says there's going to be

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Speaker 1: a significant level of security stability, uh, both economic and

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Speaker 1: h and just crime. And you know, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: cut down on crime, I'm going to cut down on

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Speaker 1: economic insecurity, You're you're going to have pride in your

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Speaker 1: country again. And in exchange, the deal is basically, don't

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Speaker 1: worry about politics, like, don't run candidates against me. I

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Speaker 1: you know, they'll be kicked off the ballot, or they'll

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Speaker 1: be jailed, or they'll be killed. Uh, and and then

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Speaker 1: we'll be cool. Like that was the deal. And so

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Speaker 1: that that that is demobilization. And so to mobilize the

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Speaker 1: entire country on behalf of a what is now unmistakably

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Speaker 1: a war, which he spent so many months saying is

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Speaker 1: just a special military operation. Uh, it then undoes the

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Speaker 1: entire bargain that has that has kept him in power.

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Speaker 1: You have to think, why did he call it a

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Speaker 1: special military operation if he thought this was going to

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Speaker 1: be popular. And one of the reasons is he wants

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Speaker 1: it to be a show. You can continue to be demobilized,

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Speaker 1: sit at home, yest, put a Z on your door,

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Speaker 1: support the war, support your country, be a patriot. And

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Speaker 1: that deal held like for the very for the first

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Speaker 1: almost year. And I mean he's obviously very capable of

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Speaker 1: controlling the flow of information in the country, and that's

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Speaker 1: been a build up over the course of years. So

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Speaker 1: when he feels that confident controlling the narrative, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are denazifying Ukraine and the country's going to that.

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Speaker 1: It's a special military operation to denazify Ukraine. And now

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Speaker 1: the speech of just a couple of weeks ago, he

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Speaker 1: gave sort of broad into the scope of it though,

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Speaker 1: and said, this is about the West. This is about

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Speaker 1: us versus this rotting sort of ideology that is creeping

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Speaker 1: onto our land from the west, and that's what we're

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Speaker 1: taking a stand against. So it is you know, I

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Speaker 1: feel like that was a broadening to an extent of

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Speaker 1: the way he was willing to frame the war, and

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Speaker 1: it's retconning the whole mission too, because you don't you

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Speaker 1: don't get to launch a war and then six months

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Speaker 1: into it say that, actually we're doing the war for

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Speaker 1: this reason. Well, actually it is a war, right, And

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Speaker 1: actually it is a war, although you could you could

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Speaker 1: you could argue that that has happened in the past.

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Speaker 1: So if you take the US Civil War for instance,

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Speaker 1: that was initially a war to preserve the Union, where

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Speaker 1: and Lincoln and the other Republican leaders are being very

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Speaker 1: clear this is not uh, this is not about you know,

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Speaker 1: freeing you know, it's not about ending slavery. But then

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Speaker 1: in in the cauldron of the war, it reshapes itself.

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Speaker 1: I don't see any way that this comes across though,

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Speaker 1: as anything other than face saving at this point, like

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Speaker 1: you can't can't lose a war, and and then start saying, well, actually,

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Speaker 1: this is an existential war, you know, against Western civilization.

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Speaker 1: You can, if you control the flow of information in

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Speaker 1: your country, it's much easier to make the to make

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Speaker 1: the claim that that's what's really happening. But but controlling

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Speaker 1: the flow of information is harder when things are happening

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Speaker 1: inside your borders. Absolutely, like the fact that they immediately

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Speaker 1: acknowledged this mass shooting at this training center, and another

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Speaker 1: thing that going on inside their borders. If we have

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Speaker 1: footage of this, uh, this Ukrainian strike in the Belgaran region.

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Speaker 1: So this is you know, for the first six months

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Speaker 1: of the war Ish Ukraine, you know, very much refrained

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Speaker 1: from attacking, you know, inside Russian territory outside of you know, forget,

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Speaker 1: forget who controls a dumbas or crimea right like inside

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Speaker 1: what everybody understands to be Russia's borders. But here we

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Speaker 1: have missile strikes hitting a power hitting a civilian center again,

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Speaker 1: which which is ugly because if you have civilian strike

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Speaker 1: against civilian strike, they hit a they hit an airport,

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Speaker 1: they hit a they hit a utility, you know, they

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Speaker 1: hit a power utility. Yes, yeah, it's that okay. So

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Speaker 1: if you could connect the dots for us between the

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Speaker 1: first thing we talked about, which is these potentially Iranian

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Speaker 1: made drones coming in from you know, they have a

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Speaker 1: range of something like twelve hundred plus miles coming into Kiev,

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Speaker 1: what is the sort of connection between A and B there?

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Speaker 1: What does it mean that we're seeing both of these

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Speaker 1: things happen within the same timeframe. Well, I think that

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Speaker 1: there is. Russia is certainly going for kind of maximum

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Speaker 1: pain on you know, to inflict on Ukraine in order

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Speaker 1: to try to pump up domestic support for the war,

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Speaker 1: to show that like this is, you know, we're still

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Speaker 1: capable of reigning destruction down on Ukraine, and the and

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Speaker 1: the and the subtle implication is always and we're holding back,

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Speaker 1: right Like That's a central component of the Russian messaging,

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Speaker 1: which is that we actually could be doing a lot

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Speaker 1: worse to Ukraine than we are and you should be

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Speaker 1: grateful that we're not. And if we're forced to, if

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Speaker 1: we're back into a corner, we will do much worse. Right.

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Speaker 1: And that's where the nuclear sable said, the rattling comes into.

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Speaker 1: That's where it all comes down to, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, the willingness to deploy, for instance, tactical

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Speaker 1: nuclear weapons. And that's why if you haven't watched Ryan's

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Speaker 1: monologue from Friday about the dire urgent need for negotiations

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Speaker 1: and our foreign policy establishments disinterest in actually really meaningfully

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Speaker 1: approaching the negotiating table, go take a look at that.

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Speaker 1: It's really fantastic. And Ryan, this is actually a very

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Speaker 1: courageous stand against nuclear war. It was really bold. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was surprised to hear Ryan coming out in favor

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Speaker 1: of peace and the controversial position here in Washington. But

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Speaker 1: it's controversial. Somebody's got to say it. Somebody had to

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Speaker 1: do it, and you were, you were willing to. You

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Speaker 1: rose and you said I'll do yeah. Well, actually, that's

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Speaker 1: a probably a good transition point into the big news

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Speaker 1: this week out of China, which is that they're the

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Speaker 1: party has opened to Congress, and this is where they

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Speaker 1: will almost certainly, Well, we could probably just say certainly

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Speaker 1: re elect Hi Jinping to be chairman of the party. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is from the Associated Press. Chinese leader Shei Jinping

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Speaker 1: on Sunday called for faster military development and announced no

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Speaker 1: change in policies that have strained relations with Washington and

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Speaker 1: tightened the ruling communist parties control over society and the economy.

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Speaker 1: So that means and by the way, Wall Street Journal's

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Speaker 1: editorial board came in also, I think this is from

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Speaker 1: today and said, the most important election in the world

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Speaker 1: this year is no election at all. It's a coronation.

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Speaker 1: This is when when the CCP annoints President Chi Jinping

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Speaker 1: for a third five year term this week, it will

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Speaker 1: confirm China's combination of aggressive nationalism and communist ideology that

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Speaker 1: is the single biggest threat to world freedom. If mister

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Speaker 1: Shei becomes convinced China has an advantage in hard power,

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Speaker 1: he will find a moment to act against Taiwan or

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Speaker 1: some other strategic interest. The journal continues, the US must

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Speaker 1: rally it's confidence and resources and soon if it doesn't

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Speaker 1: want a world dominated by she Jimping, thought, Ryan, do

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Speaker 1: you think that's do you see in the comments that

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Speaker 1: she jimping made on Sunday and basically sort of putting

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Speaker 1: that in the context of the Taiwan conflict that seems

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Speaker 1: to be growing more or every single week. Do you

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Speaker 1: see that as being what's on the table or do

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Speaker 1: you disagree with the journal there. I mean, they might

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Speaker 1: be a little bit over the top on what China

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Speaker 1: is actually kind of capable of and what she's ambitions

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Speaker 1: really are. But I think there's there is a line

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Speaker 1: that he used last in his in his speech that

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Speaker 1: he's been touching on a bit for the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years. That is that a lot of China scholars

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Speaker 1: see is really signaling, you know, how where he sees

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Speaker 1: China's place in the world, and the way he put

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Speaker 1: it in this most recent speech was at present momentous

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Speaker 1: changes of a like not seen in a century are

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Speaker 1: accelerating across the world. So that that's a play on

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Speaker 1: a on a ching dynasty phrase that was you was

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Speaker 1: used to describe the kind of collapse of of Chinese

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Speaker 1: hegemony and and the and it is embedded with the

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Speaker 1: sense of humiliation that drove the kind of nationalism and

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Speaker 1: populism that really fueled the Chinese Communist Party because it

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Speaker 1: was it was first and foremost a nationalists party, right right,

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Speaker 1: it was that it was it was kind of nationalists

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Speaker 1: first and then and then and communist second. I would

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Speaker 1: i would argue in its in its earliest incarnations and

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Speaker 1: the actual kind of people that were calling themselves uh

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Speaker 1: nationalists of Shanghai. Chek's forces were we're seen as as

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, sellouts to what it's a Western imperialism,

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Speaker 1: and that's really what helped give the the c c P.

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Speaker 1: It's its advantage in you know, among among the Chinese people,

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Speaker 1: and to this day it still doesn't. So what what

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Speaker 1: he's been doing the last several years by redeploying this

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Speaker 1: phrase is saying that the momentum changes not seen in

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Speaker 1: a century are the decline of the West and the

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Speaker 1: and the rise again of China, and that he's and

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Speaker 1: he argues that the way to exploit this is to

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Speaker 1: invest heavily in the domestic industries, particularly in tech, and

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Speaker 1: also and to rely on kind of the West's inability

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Speaker 1: to think strategically for the long term. Like he he

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Speaker 1: genuinely believes that polarization in particular, he has an analysis

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Speaker 1: of political polarization that would fit in with all the

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Speaker 1: pundits that you hear in the United States, and he

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Speaker 1: says it just makes things completely, you know, dysfunctional. Here

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Speaker 1: in the United States in particular, but also in other

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Speaker 1: Western European states. You have kind of leading Chinese communist

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Speaker 1: scholars who love to point out the fact that there

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Speaker 1: are things here in the United States that eighty plus

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Speaker 1: percent of the public support. They'll often talk about gun

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Speaker 1: control and things like that that can't even get close

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Speaker 1: to getting passed in Congress. Like, to them, a system

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Speaker 1: where eighty percent of the people can support something but

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Speaker 1: the government cannot deliver on it is functionally broken and

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Speaker 1: it is fundamentally undemocratic. Like they believe that, not that

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Speaker 1: they allow elections or anything like that, but that there

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Speaker 1: is a closer connection to people there and policy than

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Speaker 1: there is here that here elites kind of have broken

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Speaker 1: the democratic process, and elites actually kind of dictate policy

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Speaker 1: for their own benefit, whereas the against the interests of

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Speaker 1: the against the interests of the people. Right, So that's

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Speaker 1: that's his that's his argument for why that the next

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Speaker 1: century is going to be China's. And you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: it's important to note they've they actually do have the

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Speaker 1: sort of expansionist mentality that you can see with Belton Road.

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Speaker 1: And that's a huge question. It was a huge question

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Speaker 1: in the Cold War, are obviously in ways that we

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Speaker 1: answered very poorly, but in the case of huge and

429
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: panging in the case of this twenty first century where

430
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: they can actually sort of One of the things they

431
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: like to do is talk about the kind of irredeemable

432
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: natures of America. They like to make those arguments, right,

433
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: They will take the sort of arguments of you know,

434
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: the I don't mean this in a Clinton respect, the

435
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: irredeemability of America and a historical respect right that it

436
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: is fundamentally a poisonous country and a poisonous influence on

437
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: the global stage. And that's an argument you can sort

438
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: of a plant, not just with money you spend on

439
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: Belton Road, and you know, bring into Africa or South

440
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: America or the Middle East wherever you're going. That's an

441
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: argument you can make now on social media. It's an

442
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: argument your diplomats can make. It's an argument that you

443
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: can make with soft power through Hollywood, which we know

444
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: that has been an ambition of theirs. So Ryan, I'm

445
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: also so wondering. You know, this was a speech, Chijingping

446
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: speech on Sunday was a very speech that was very

447
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: heavy on bluster, not unpredictably, so this makes a lot

448
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: of sense. It's very heavy on bluster. What does that

449
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: mean for his relationship with Vladimir Putin? Because we were

450
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: just talking about how Putin is in some ways being

451
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: forced to scrape what feels like the bottom of the barrel.

452
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: It may not be the bottom of the barrel, but

453
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: in the moment, it feels like it is the bottom

454
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: of the barrel. Chijingping seems to be sort of displeased

455
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: with the course of the war. We know that there

456
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: has been some supportive relationship to an extent, but when

457
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: Xijingping has got an economy that's I think you said,

458
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: arguably slumping is not overseeing the best economy right now,

459
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: but would like to undercut the West, would like to

460
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: undercut the United States going forward? Is what do you

461
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: think him going into this third term means for Putin,

462
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: means for Ukraine? Well, I mean, we know that the

463
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: Chinese approach so far to expansion has has not been

464
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: to launch military invasions like that in general. Right, Uh,

465
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: you know their their their crackdowns are internally, we know

466
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: what their crackdown looks like in in western China. But

467
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: as you talked about with their with their attempt to

468
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: kind of push their power, their severe of influence beyond

469
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: China into the surrounding kind of into Pacific countries, that's

470
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: been done, you know, mostly financially, you know, trying to

471
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: use you know, they're trying to use their the power

472
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: of their economy is leverage over them. Uh. And the

473
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: same the same in Africa. That is a much different thing,

474
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 1: uh than than sending troops into occupy. You know, if

475
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: if if there are two types of imperialism like that,

476
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: that's the that's the much better kind of imperialism that

477
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: somebody is going to come in and build a road

478
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: rather than blow up a road. You'd probably prefer that.

479
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: But you know, they they run into problems in one

480
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 1: because there is so much corruption embedded in the system.

481
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: All systems are right with corruption, but you know, the

482
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: the Chinese one has a particularly difficult time in rooting

483
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: it out because people are telling everybody up above them

484
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,719
Speaker 1: what they want, what they want to hear, and just

485
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: oftentimes just making up numbers. Because if you don't if

486
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: you don't deliver the right and you're better off delivering

487
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: good numbers, then you are delivering honest numbers. And so

488
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: a lot of these roads that they build are famous

489
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: for collapsing within like three months. It's just a pay

490
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: pay a road somewhere African. It's just absolutely just destroyed. Yeah,

491
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: and charge an incredible amount of money for it and

492
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: put those countries into debt, right, which is the old

493
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: World Bank IMF kind of strategy too. But that's but

494
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: that's backed up with the dollar and with the American military.

495
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: So you're trying to do it without that, it's a

496
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: little tougher bull move, right. So yeah, I think this

497
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: is a huge story to watch this Like, I know

498
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: we'll continue to watch it. But three terms of hu Jinpang,

499
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: that's a we're getting into this pretty serious consolidation of power.

500
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously that's always been there, but this is

501
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: an era, you know, this is the era of hu

502
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: Jinping and it is an era of sort of soft

503
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: power expansionism around the globe. And his economy right now

504
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: I think is going to be a that's going to

505
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: be a sticking point for him at least this year

506
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: and we'll see how he's able to turn around. But

507
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: they're obviously still dealing with zero COVID problems, right, They

508
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: have the zero COVID problems, sticking to zero COVID, and

509
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 1: there's I think maybe some rumblings that this could crack

510
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: his support or his control over the Chinese people, but

511
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: I don't think we've seen that prove to be the

512
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: case in any situations. And in fact, when I've asked

513
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: China experts, we've seen those videos out of Shanghai, for instance,

514
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: of people protesting zero COVID in ways that are just

515
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: difficult to watch. I mean, it's painful. Actually, they have

516
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: made a very persuasive argument that that's good for shu

517
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: Jingpang because it gives him an opportunity to exert his power,

518
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: to flex his muscles, and instead of cracks in the foundation,

519
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: what it shows is that he's able to easily just

520
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: smooth over the cracks in the foundation. I mean, the

521
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: more outlets you have for dissent, then in some ways,

522
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: the more stable your regime. Ultimately, it's the regimes that

523
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: have no outlets whatsoever, that all of a sudden you

524
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: think are completely solid and then they just collapse the

525
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: next day. I think China is probably somewhere in the

526
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 1: middle of those of those two because there aren't there

527
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: aren't that many outlets for people to you know, protest

528
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: in a way they can actually affect. But you know,

529
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of support also for zero COVID. Yeah, otherwise,

530
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: you know they are. It's not as if there's no

531
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: responsiveness whatsoever to public opinion, right right, No, And it's

532
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: obviously very very difficult for us to gauge what public

533
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: opinion is in China. It's extremely difficult, and some of

534
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: that is intentional. But this story and the way She

535
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: Jinping sees himself and sees his country on the world

536
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: stage has implications for the prices that we are paying

537
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: right now. It has implications for the war. It has

538
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: implications for nuclear negotiations over the war in Ukraine, there's

539
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: no question about it. And it has implications over our military.

540
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: The way that we're addressing the war in Ukraine should

541
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: heavily be influenced by the way we're thinking about the

542
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: urgency of an invasion of Taiwan, where obviously a lot

543
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: of semiconductors and other central equipment is made. So what

544
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: we're seeing from Xi Jinping this week is extremely extremely

545
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: relevant to what's happening here in Washington, d C. And

546
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: what happens what trickles into the rest of our lives

547
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: on a sort of immediate day to day basis. We

548
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: know that with supply chains, we know that with pricing

549
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: in general. So just an important storyline to follow this week. Now,

550
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: on that note, Ryan, the last week was so packed

551
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: with news. One of the stories we didn't get to

552
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: You wanted to talk about happiness. That's what we want

553
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: to talk about, happiness. And a new survey released by

554
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: it was the twenty twenty two American Family Survey. You

555
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: combine that with a new poll from you gov and

556
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: Desiree News that found liberals are about fifteen percentage points

557
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: less likely to be quote completely satisfied with their lives.

558
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: Ran is laughing. This is from unheard Brad Wilcox, A

559
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: great Brad Willcox whose work you should follow. He says,

560
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: quote Liberals, especially liberal women, are significantly less likely to

561
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: be happy with their lives and satisfied with their mental

562
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: health compared to their conservative peers aged eighteen to fifty five.

563
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: More from Brad quote. The survey goes on to find

564
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: that liberals are about eighteen percentage points less likely to

565
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: be completely satisfied with their mental health and conservatives. But

566
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: the problem appears to be especially acute for liberal women,

567
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: who register the lowest level of satisfaction with their lives

568
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: and mental health. Indeed, only fifteen percent of liberal women

569
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 1: in the age group surveyed are completely satisfied with their

570
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: lives compared to thirty one percent of conservative women. Likewise,

571
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: only fifty fifteen percent of liberal women are completely satisfied

572
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: with their mental health compared to thirty six percent of

573
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: conservative women. This is incredibly loaded data because it depends

574
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: on how you define terms like complete and satisfied, and

575
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: then the combination of them being completely satisfied. It depends

576
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: on how you define mental health and your own satisfaction

577
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 1: with mental health what does that look like. So if

578
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: you believe mental health is sort of a more pressing

579
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: daily problem that needs to be addressed, as many people

580
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: on the left probably do, then you may be less

581
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: likely just to be completely satisfied with your mental health,

582
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: even if you're mentally healthy. So this is like a

583
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: very very loaded sort of series of questions, and there

584
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: are a lot of variables to parse here. That said,

585
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: when you are able to see gas apps, there's something there.

586
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: What do you make of it? Ryan? I mean, one

587
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: thing off the top I would say is that liberals

588
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: are more likely to have college degrees, more likely to

589
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: have graduate degrees. People with college degrees and graduate degrees

590
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: are more likely to be the types of people who

591
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: are going to actually something to death or nitpick the

592
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: the kind of definition of it. And so if you

593
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: say to somebody like that, are you completely satisfied, They're

594
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: going to overthink it in a way completely satisfied, and

595
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: they'll and they'll have some philosophical rationale. Is anyone ever

596
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: completely satisfied? If I say that I'm completely satisfied, does

597
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: that mean that I have no aspirational satisfaction in the future?

598
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,919
Speaker 1: Like you know, so I can see like a non

599
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: trivial number of liberals just consciously quibbling with and overthinking

600
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: the question and then refusing to like take part of

601
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: some some are going to do they're not sure or

602
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: check a check. They're just going to used to participate

603
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 1: in something that takes something as nuanced as the meeting

604
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: of life and tries to chunk it into a single

605
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: Polling question, and so they're they're going to be gone

606
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: from that number where I think on the conservative side

607
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: you just get more people are like, yeah, completely satisfied.

608
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: Thanks are good. So Brad was last night. Brad does

609
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: a lot of really interesting work and he's the author

610
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: of the Unheard article on marriage and children and the

611
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: way that they do create some measure of what you

612
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: could call satisfaction in people's lives. And his theory in

613
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 1: the Unheard article is that liberals are clearly less likely

614
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: to be married and less likely to have children, and

615
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 1: that is eating away at their ability to come to

616
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: that answer that yes, I'm completely satisfied with my life. Women,

617
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: the Institute for Family Studies Limonstone over there has done

618
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 1: some really interesting research on how American women are actually

619
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: having fewer children than they say they want to, which

620
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: is an interesting point. And we know that as the

621
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: marriage rate has gone up, that's also becoming an issue

622
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: for women in terms of whether they're able to enter

623
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: into that institution. And there's a lot of actually research

624
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: correlated that shows a correlation between marriage and happiness. Now,

625
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: children is another question. There's some research that shows in

626
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: certain periods of parenthood happiness is not at its peak,

627
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: So there's sort of a different question there. But right,

628
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you one thing we see, especially

629
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: in sort of urban areas, you actually have a long

630
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: marriage and a lot of kids too. That's not super

631
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: common on the left. Do people look at you like

632
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: you're a freak me sometimes? Yeah? Do you do it? Man? Yeah,

633
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: a little bit, especially among millennials, I mean, especially in

634
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: the younger left. Sure, yeah, a little bit. Yeah, right

635
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: right there, you have to you have to have explanations.

636
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: What is your explanation? I don't. I don't really want

637
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: to get into all the explanations, but you kind of

638
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: need them. Then it's like, oh, okay, okay. So yeah,

639
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: but I think another potential piece of this, because I

640
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: was trying to think how I would answer this, another

641
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: potential piece of it could be liberal guilt about the

642
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: state of the world. Yeah. Absolutely, So if you ask

643
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: me in my personal life how I would answer this,

644
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: I would say completely satisfied. But then I would immediately

645
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: feel guilty for saying that because I can't be happy.

646
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: The world is such a miserable place right now, So

647
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: how dare I? Because my satisfaction, you know, has to

648
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: also be connected to the other people in the world.

649
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: We're social beings. You know, if if one person isn't free,

650
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: then nobody is free, that kind of that kind of approach.

651
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: So if one person isn't satisfied, nobody's satisfied. And so

652
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: for a lot of liberals, they really aren't satisfied unless

653
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: they feel like the world is moving in a positive

654
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: direction because they feel a responsibility for the rest of

655
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: them of the world, where ye conservatives probably have what

656
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: is a mental health mentally healthier way of approaching it,

657
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: which is to say, I'm looking out for me and

658
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: my family. Yeah, the rest of you are kind of

659
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: on your own, and it's not my responsibility too, and

660
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: it's not my burden to worry about that. Well, I

661
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: don't think they would say it's not their responsibility or

662
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: they're burdens so much as they would say that it's

663
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: the sort of immediate question of satisfaction and happiness is

664
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: one that you know they have to and not that

665
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: like they don't continue to do charity. There's research that

666
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: shows conservatives tend to be more philanthropic or charitable, but

667
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: that it's the question of happiness is not one that

668
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: they can control. For other people you can sort of

669
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: do different things, but not necessarily be able to control

670
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: other people. That said it, there's the mental health question

671
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: is a really interesting one. I think there's some pretty

672
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: convincing and persuasive research that social media use which is

673
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: increasing for a lot of different reasons, one of which

674
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: it depends on how you kind of define social media,

675
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: but even things like Gmail, we are all using these

676
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: apps on our smartphones and on laptops more and more

677
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: and more, and if those are demonstrated to show a

678
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: decline in mental health. If you are more likely to

679
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: be educated, you're more likely to be the more educated

680
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: you are, the more likely you are to be liberal,

681
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: and that means you're probably more likely to have a

682
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: laptop job and or zoom so being what we now

683
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: post COVID called the Zoom class, which means you may

684
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: be more likely to spend time on social media, on

685
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: your smartphone and working, and that I can see very

686
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: much being correlated with dips in mental health, especially compared

687
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: with people who are more likely to be doing manual labor.

688
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: People who are you know, have kids to worry about

689
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: and can't necessarily can actually have a good excuse to

690
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: put the phone down going forward. So yeah, I mean

691
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: it's a it's a difficult thing to sort of parse out.

692
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: I do think there's there's really something to this question

693
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: of mental health and lifestyle that is hitting the left

694
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: harder than it's hitting the right at the moment, given

695
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: the way the sort of working world is organized. As

696
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: a deeply disturbing number of fifteen percent of liberal women

697
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: saying they're completely satisfied with their mental health, that's a

698
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: really small number. It's a really small and it's the

699
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: one percent for liberal men is not a whole lot better.

700
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: And it's interesting me, it's just brutal. It was interesting

701
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: that you're more than doubling it when you get to

702
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 1: the question of conservatives as well. And so yes, it's

703
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: still only a third of people, only a third right,

704
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: but the fact that it's more than double miserable based

705
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: on ideology is striking. And again it's something that I

706
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: don't think trickles into the political discourse at all. You

707
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 1: hear a little bit of it from actually AOC who

708
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: talks about, you know, this sort of I think she

709
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: kind of channels the sense of like millennial misery in

710
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: ways that you don't have a lot of figures on

711
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: the right. Other than maybe Trump, who talks about American

712
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: carnage and that sort of language or speaks in that

713
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: sort of language, is tapping into I think it's Marian

714
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: Williamson who talks about, you know, this idea that if

715
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: you look at birth rates or are people not wanting

716
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: to have children, what does that say about the mindset

717
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: and the mental health frankly of people going forward as well?

718
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, these are really big questions. I don't

719
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: think there are questions that are politics is super focused

720
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: on addressing I know you would agree with me on that,

721
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: we would have different ways of addressing it. But yes,

722
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: it's you know, we'll see what happens in the future,

723
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: but interesting numbers. And I would encourage certainly any politicians

724
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: who might be watching this to pay attention to that

725
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: because the country can be going into some really dark

726
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: places when you have people in abject misery. Basically speaking

727
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 1: of unhappy people, right and speaking of the political consequences

728
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: of unhappiness. Donald Trump is I always want to say, tweeting,

729
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: but truth socially. We have this post that we can

730
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: put up because I actually want to read it. This

731
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: from the former president of the United States. He truth

732
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: social this over the weekend. No president has done more

733
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: for Israel than I have. Trump said. Surprisingly, however, our

734
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: wonderful evangelicals are former appreciative of this than the people

735
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: of the Jewish faith, especially those living in the US.

736
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 1: Those living in Israel, though, are a different story. Highest

737
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: approval rating in the world could easily be pm US.

738
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: Jews have to get their act together and appreciate what

739
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: they have in Israel before it's too late, That's what

740
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 1: he truth social It is just of all of the

741
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: posts from Donald Trump on social media, there are a

742
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: lot of bad ones. This is up there with the worst. Yeah,

743
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: they need to get their act together before it's too late. Yeah,

744
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: this is this is Donald Trump also says he can

745
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: he would be Prime Minister of Israel unless it was

746
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: stolen from him. I'm sure it's straight up anti semitic,

747
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: full straight up full on anti semitic, that he's done

748
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: so much these ungrateful people. It's just it's horrifying and well,

749
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: and he's classifying it based I mean, it's the question

750
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: of anti Simmons isn't an interesting one, but he's classifying

751
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: it based on whether you're an American Jew or an

752
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: Israeli Jew, which is just wildly inappropriate as a former

753
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: former president president to attribute characteristics to people like that.

754
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: Is this sort of bulk characterization of American Jews and

755
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: Israeli Jews. Obviously, he doesn't have overwhelming support from Jewish

756
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: voters in the United States. He's never been on the

757
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: ballot in Israel. I mean, it's just a ridiculous thing

758
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: to get into, right, And I guess I don't even

759
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: know where to start with some guy like this. So

760
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: it's hard to be surprised by something that Donald Trump says.

761
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: I think the bigger surprise perhaps, and maybe this shouldn't

762
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: be surprising either. I'm curious for your take on this.

763
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: Has hasn't been much. How much reaction have you seen

764
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: on the right? Not much to allow to allow this

765
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: to just stand. You know, if if Elon Omar says

766
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: you know, you know, if she says something, or Rashida

767
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: Taleb says that, you know, you can't be both progressive

768
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: and support Israel's apartheid government, everybody loses their mind on her.

769
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: He says this, and it just gets a complete pass.

770
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: I did see a lot of people on the right.

771
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: I think there was the combination over the weekend of

772
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: Kanye West going on that podcast and talking about out

773
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: anti semitic, Oh Trump easily. I mean it was in

774
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: what was coming out of his mouth was incredible, not

775
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: entirely surprising, but incredible from somebody with the level of

776
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: celebrity that he has. I mean, you've heard it from

777
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: like Ice Cube and Nick Cannon before, but the levels

778
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: of celebrity that Kanye West has to be giving such

779
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: a high profile platform for these arguments to find such

780
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: a high profile platform in Kanye West, He's buying parlor.

781
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 1: Did you see this? Yeah, so that's actually new today

782
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: that he's agreed to buy parlor for some reason. And

783
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: whether that becomes a sort of Elon Musk like back

784
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: and forth with Twitter is a different question. But this

785
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: is I did see some concerns sort of with a

786
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: combination of those things, you know, stepping in and saying

787
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: this is and Trump is interesting because the guy has

788
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: his beloved daughter is Jewish and he has Jewish grandchildren,

789
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: and so I don't know that this is necessarily motivated

790
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: by some sort of like racial animus, but it is

791
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: anti Semitic in the respect that it's the sort of

792
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: bulk characterization of people by nationality, ethnicity, religion. That's just inappropriate, period.

793
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: It's just completely inappropriate. And then to add it with

794
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: before it's too late. Listen, I know what he's getting at.

795
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: I think I think he's getting at this question of

796
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: the country, right, the country before it's too late to

797
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 1: sort of rescue your country, your great country. But it's

798
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: just not a way for a world leader to express

799
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: themselves to a historically marginalized community that, in the memory

800
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: of people still alive today, have been systematically genocided on

801
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: a mass scale. I mean, it's just a wildly insensitive

802
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: and in appropriate thing to do. And I mean, we

803
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: all know how Donald Trump talks, and there are instances

804
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 1: with the media runs away with what he's saying and

805
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: goes in different directions. I mean, actually, one of them

806
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: I thought was the recent one about Mitch McConnell and

807
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: Elaine Chow. He said something that was interpreted as a

808
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: threat by the media that I didn't think actually was

809
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: a threat. I think it was pretty obvious. Again he

810
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: was talking about the country itself that said it. Just

811
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: whenever he strays into this territory, it's a reminder of

812
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: just how bizarre. The last since twenty fifteen, since he

813
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: started running, how bizarre and how are and continue to

814
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: just shift in ways that speak to a desperation for

815
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: change for something. And this is also coming on the

816
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: heels of this. Did you see the news in Maggie

817
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: Haveman's book about Sheldonnadelson basically paying to move the embassy

818
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: to Jerusalem? Yeah, tell us, I followed it a little bit.

819
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: But what did Maggie report? He basically that Addison used

820
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: a twenty million dollar donation to a super pack to

821
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: pressure Trump. And this from Elik Clifton, his rite up

822
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: in Responsals Staatecraft, Sheldndison used a twenty million dollars donation

823
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: to a superback to super pac to pressure then President

824
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: Donald Trump to adopt the highly controversial decision to move

825
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: the US embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Israel.

826
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: That quid pro quo is described in Haberman's new book,

827
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: Confidence Man. Adelson's singular focus was Israel, wrote Haveerman, effectively

828
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: acknowledging that foreign president's biggest funder was most interested in

829
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 1: promoting the interests of a foreign country, Trump's. In Trump,

830
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: he saw a chance of an acting change in American

831
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 1: policy toward israelm gave twenty million dollars to a superPAC

832
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: working to elect him as a candid Trump front anyway,

833
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: So basically that twenty million dollars exchange hands in order

834
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 1: to pressure Trump to move the embassy. Trump talks about

835
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: having moved that Israel embassy to Jerusalem all the time. Well,

836
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: it was in that post even, right, Yeah, what did

837
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: you make of his reference to evangelicals, because it's clear

838
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 1: he has contempt for American Jewish people in this tweet,

839
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: he also has contempt for most people, and it seemed

840
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: to be kind of contemptuous too. He still just doesn't

841
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: understand these evangelicals, like somewhat surprisingly, they seem more excited

842
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: about me moving the embassy. Well, and that's what I

843
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: think is really interesting when we were talking about this

844
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: question of shifting standards, right, So to your question of

845
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: why there's a freak out on the right about a

846
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: Trump tweet like this, and I think that answer is

847
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: because American evangelicals, you know, they signed a statement in

848
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: the late nineties about how character is an the central

849
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: part of a politician that evangelicals should support. And we

850
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: remember what happened with Bill Clinton and evangelicals. But why

851
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: is that not reflected when you see a tweet like

852
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: this from Donald Trump. Well, it's because people feel so desperate,

853
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: times feel so dire, And I think for good reason,

854
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 1: people feel like times are dire, and times are desperate

855
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: and urgent, that Donald Trump is this imperfect vessel for

856
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: a policy that is desperately needed and craved by the

857
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: evangelical community. And again, I think for some really good reasons,

858
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: people do feel like they're in dire straits. And again

859
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: that's reasonable to some extent. Whether or not the decision

860
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: to support Donald Trump is reasonable in the decision to

861
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: sort of put blinders on and power through is a

862
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: different question. But the question of whether you know of

863
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: why that happens, I think you see in Donald Trump's

864
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: very very what's the word I'm looking for, just very

865
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: utilitarian relationship with the evangelical community. Both sides, no right,

866
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: and there are some people you get your Paula Whites

867
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: of the world. There are some people who have bought

868
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: into Trump and are close to Trump and really genuinely

869
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: love Donald Trump. On the other hand, there are whole

870
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: lot of people that sort of know what's going on here.

871
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: This is a transactional relationship where he will advance policies

872
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: like moving the embassy, for instance, that that are good

873
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: for the evangelical cause. Thus, it's fine you can talk

874
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: about evangelicals in bulk and talk about them in this

875
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: very transact transactional way in the same way that you're

876
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: talking about American Jews and Israeli Jews. That's how I

877
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: think Donald Trump is. It's the mind of Donald Trump

878
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: as a politician. It's like people, you're selling products to people.

879
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: They're just pure consumers. They are these transaction you have

880
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: transactional relationships with them. And that's how a lot of

881
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: this is like gets to a central question of Trump

882
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: isn't like that's how politicians see you period. Donald Trump

883
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: is just talks about it in a way that makes

884
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: it really obvious. But that's how a whole lot of

885
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: politicians see you anyway. Well, charges of anti Semitism gets

886
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: cynically weaponized so much in our politics that it is

887
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 1: striking to see actual genuine anti semitism on display from

888
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: Trump here, from Kanye West, I mean that was so

889
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 1: Kanye West is one thing, but from the former president

890
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: of the United States to say things like before it's

891
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: too late without explaining what you mean in the context

892
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: of a tweet about ungrateful Jews. It's just like bizarre.

893
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: But again, I think it speaks to this sort of

894
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: naked calculus of trump Ism, which is that he's not

895
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: hiding the fact that this is transactional, that he sees

896
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: you with someone who's going to get a benefit out

897
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: of this. And that's why the Sheldon Nagelsen story I

898
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,919
Speaker 1: think is interesting and irrelevant sort of journalistic Black voters

899
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. It's exactly what you have to lose.

900
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: It's exactly like that, right, He's selling a product, and

901
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: again that's how most politicians see us. But he's just

902
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,280
Speaker 1: he doesn't hide it really as much. And that's another

903
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: with the Shettle and the Edison thing. The money aspect

904
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 1: of it is interesting, But I also think Donald Trump

905
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: could be convinced without money to do that. I think

906
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: that there were a lot of, you know, people who

907
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: saw him as they had their own transactional relationships with

908
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: him in the administration and saw him as like the

909
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: vessel for these policies, and he could have been persuaded

910
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: and to negotiate that anyway. So he'll take the money. Yeah, well, Ryan,

911
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: speaking of Israel, Yes, speaking of Israel, what point do

912
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: you want to make today? So in May of twenty

913
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: twenty one, in the midst of the gaz of war,

914
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,919
Speaker 1: protests were held around the country. In Orlando, anti war

915
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: activists assembled downtown for a rally in a march and

916
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: were joined by Maxwell Frost, an organizer who later went

917
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: on to win the Democratic nomination for the area's congressional seat.

918
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: It's a heavily blue seat, so he's heading to Congress

919
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: and like I said, the last thing, I'm going to

920
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: say again and did this over and over against as

921
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: he had all of the years, see the world through

922
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:23,959
Speaker 1: the eyes of the most. Frost was an active member

923
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: of the group that organized that march, Florida Palestine Network,

924
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: and once he started his run for Congress, according to

925
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: multiple sources I spoke to for a story just published

926
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 1: in The Intercept, APAK and an allied organization Democratic Majority

927
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: for Israel took extreme interest in his pro Palestinian activism.

928
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: In January, DMFI endorsed his opponent, Randolph Bracy, who expected

929
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: to get big money spent on the outside to support him,

930
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: but that money never came. Over the ensuing months, Frost,

931
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: according to sources on his campaign, worked hard to moderate

932
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: his position on Israel Palestine in order to keep that

933
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: big money, keep that big money in the big money

934
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: pro Israel groups from spending him into the ground. He

935
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: also landed his own super pac support from crypto billionaire

936
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: Sam Bankman Freed, whose super pack protect Our Future, spent

937
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: a million dollars on his behalf. By the end of

938
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: the campaign, Frost had significantly evolved his position. He had

939
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: begun as a supporter of BDS, which stands for Boycott,

940
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 1: Divestment and sanctions and is a movement that tries to

941
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: pressure Israel to end it settlement activity and its occupation

942
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: of Palestinian territory. He ended by severely criticizing BDS as

943
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: quote extremely problematic quote. I believe that the boycott, sanctions

944
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: and divestment movement is extremely problematic and undermines the chances

945
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: of peace and a two state solution. Additionally, it hurts

946
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: both Palestinians and Israelis who suffer economically from it. Hamas

947
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: Palestinian Islamic Jahad and the Popular Front for the Liberation

948
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: of palistin have been designated by the United States as

949
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: terrorist organizations, and all these groups are a part of

950
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: the Central BDS Movement's council, he said, which in my eye,

951
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: delegitimizes the entire organization and movement. He started out opposing

952
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: military aid to Israel and finished saying he was fully

953
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 1: supportive of the ten year military spending plan laid out

954
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 1: by Obama and continued by Trump and Biden. And DMFI

955
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: and APAC decided not to spend against him. I was

956
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 1: told by a source with direct knowledge of the situation

957
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: that his new position is what persuaded them to stay out.

958
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: But this isn't really a story about one candidate who

959
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: changed position during a campaign. That happens a lot. It's

960
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: about how a handful of mega rich donors operating through

961
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: super PACs can now often dictate who can win competitive

962
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: primaries in ways that are fundamentally different from just a

963
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: few election cycles ago. Now, depending on where you date it,

964
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: whether it's ned Lamont and Donna Edwards back in two

965
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: thousand and six, or the first Bernie Sanders campaign in

966
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, or the rise of the Squad and Justice

967
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: Democrats in twenty eighteen, there's been an insurgency brewing on

968
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: the left flank of the Democratic Party that has legitimately

969
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 1: reshaped its politics and also briefly threatened to fully take

970
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: over the party. That didn't happened in the twenty twenty

971
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: presidential campaign, but the progressive wing continued to make major

972
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: gains and did significantly shape Biden's legislative agenda in twenty

973
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 1: twenty one and twenty two. They didn't get everything they wanted,

974
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,399
Speaker 1: of course, but the answer to that was to come

975
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 1: back in primary some of the worst Democrats, build power,

976
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: and then push harder. It worked in some cases. Jamie

977
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: McLeod Skinner and Oregon overcame millions of dollars spent against

978
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: her to beat Kurt Schrader, who was a blue Dog

979
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: leader and was central in the effort to tank built

980
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: back better. But in many of the critical races the

981
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: candidates were organizations backing them ran up against an obstacle

982
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: they hadn't fully seen coming. A flood of money from

983
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: private equity executives, hedge fund barons, and other titans of

984
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: industry organizing their efforts through those superpacks that say American

985
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: policy toward Israel is their primary purpose. They were also

986
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: joined by a tech billionaire, Reed Hoffman and that crypto

987
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: billionaire bankman freed in many of the races that they

988
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: played in, and they have fundamentally reshaped how primaries are

989
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: contested and what is possible for the progressive wing of

990
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: the park. In doing so, they give us a look

991
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: at the real harvest of the Citizens' United Seeds that

992
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: were planted back in twenty ten. These big money groups

993
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: may be able to cut progressive candidates off at the knees,

994
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: but their victories are artificial. The energy that had fueled

995
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: those progressive candidates doesn't just go away. It just goes somewhere.

996
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: Else Where it goes we don't exactly know. But anytime

997
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 1: we eliminate the potential for people to productively express their

998
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: anger or their hopes through legitimate democratic processes, bad things happen.

999
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: So my last super long piece for the Intercept, which

1000
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: is called Elephant in the Zoom, came out in mid June,

1001
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: and I hope to be able to do more of

1002
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: these every few months. That one, which was about meltdowns

1003
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: within progressive institutions and nonprofits, had as its backdrop the

1004
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: fraud debate over cancel culture. This new piece is set

1005
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: against that same backdrop, despite all the protestations of the

1006
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: right about restrictions on speech. The fastest way to get

1007
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: canceled in America remains to step out of the bipartisan

1008
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: consensus around our policy toward Israel. The recent censoring and

1009
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: firing of Katie Halper by HILLTV. All of these groups,

1010
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 1: both crypto and pro Israel, have since quit spending on

1011
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: behalf of Democrats in the general election because they don't

1012
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: really care if Democrats or Republicans are in the majority.

1013
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 1: If they can spend heavily in primaries to make sure

1014
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: both parties embrace their agenda. That's not a real democracy

1015
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: or even a republic. Yeah, Emily, having covered democratic primaries,

1016
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: what about you? What points you want to make? Point?

1017
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: Do I want to I'm trying to make it happen

1018
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: like Gretchen Wieners. So new emails show a Pfizer board

1019
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: member complaining to Twitter about a journalist Alex Bearnson. The

1020
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: journalist in question obtained internal Twitter emails as part of

1021
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: his federal lawsuit against the company for banning him. Now

1022
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: The platform settled in July and restored his account, but

1023
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: Benson released a particularly telling message in the substact post

1024
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: last Thursday. Now you probably know the Pfiser board member

1025
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: who sent that message, which it was none other than

1026
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: Scott Gottlieb, Trump's former FDA commissioner, who became a go

1027
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: to source for media during the pandemic and a fixture

1028
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: of the broadcast coverage. Here's what Gottlieb sent to someone

1029
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: at Twitter. Quote this is what's promoted on Twitter. This

1030
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 1: is why Tony needs a security detail, he wrote in

1031
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: August of twenty twenty one, forwarding a Berenson article posted

1032
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: earlier that day on the quote arrogance of Anthony Fauci.

1033
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: Now Twitter bann Berenson just four days later over alleged

1034
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: COVID disinformation. Four days after the getting that email from

1035
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: a Pfizer board member, Gottlieb, by his own admission and

1036
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: formally advised the Biden administration during the pandemic, Andy Slavitt,

1037
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: at the time, a senior advisor in the Biden administration,

1038
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: pressured Twitter to do something about Berenson as well. Bronson

1039
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: went on Tucker Carlston Show last week to discuss the

1040
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: new evidence surrounding his band. But to me, what's less

1041
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: interesting than the timing of Berenson's band is just the

1042
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: existence of Gottlieb's email. Here we have Scott Gottlieb, who

1043
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: held high level positions in George W. Bush's FDA before

1044
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: heading it up under Trump, taking it upon himself to

1045
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: email Twitter about Berenson, a former New York Times reporter

1046
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: who happened to be skeptical of the vaccines. Now, Berenson

1047
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: is not uncontroversial, but he's more transparent than most journalists,

1048
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: and his skepticism of the public private partnership on COVID

1049
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,919
Speaker 1: is aging better with every passing day. When his book

1050
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: came out about a year ago, he was totally gamed

1051
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: to explore his own mistakes over the course of the

1052
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: pandemic on my podcast, which I respected immensely, and we

1053
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: don't even pay his salary. Now try and getting that

1054
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: out of Fauci in any meaningful way. But the arrogance

1055
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: Berenson wrote about makes perfect sense when you think about it.

1056
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: Gottlieb had the audacity to join Pfeiser's board less than

1057
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: three months after leaving the FDA in twenty nineteen. Trump

1058
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: had the audacity to nominate him for the FDA post.

1059
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 1: After Gottlieb sat on the Product Investment Board of Glaxosmith

1060
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: Klein worked at a venture capital firm that invested in

1061
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: pharmaceuticals and made hundreds of thousands of dollars from drug

1062
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: companies for consulting and speaking fees just from twenty thirteen

1063
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: to twenty sixteen. Now, whatever you make of the vaccines,

1064
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: Gottlieb made hundreds of thousands of dollars from Pfizer while

1065
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: promoting their product to the media during the pandemic. And

1066
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 1: that's whose interests he represented, even if unofficially, when he

1067
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: contacted Twitter about Bearnson. So there you have it, a

1068
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: revolving door bureaucrat trying to pressure a major corporation to

1069
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: cut off a journalist's access to its massive speech platform,

1070
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: and doing it over email, seemingly unbothered by the possibility

1071
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: his conduct might someday be exposed. Indeed, people of this

1072
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: mindset are proud to police the discourse. We know this

1073
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: because the White House openly boasted about flagging disinformation on Facebook.

1074
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: The Biden campaign openly encouraged social media to censor the

1075
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: New York Post story on Hunter Biden. Gottlieb was asked

1076
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 1: actually about his email on CNBC. His response is tellinglye

1077
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: nonsensical quote respectful debate and dialogue is one thing and

1078
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: should be encouraged and protected, Gottlab tweeted after the hit

1079
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: on CNBC. He continued, but there's no place for targeting, harassment,

1080
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: and misleading dialogue, which can instigate a small but persuadable

1081
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: group of people to make targeted and dangerous threats. Of course,

1082
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: Berenson made no threats. Gottlieb is arguing that what he

1083
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: defines as quote misleading dialogue from Baronson could have instigated people,

1084
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: but banking one person's definition. But having one person's definition

1085
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: of quote misleading dialogue become something that is used to

1086
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: squelch quote respectful debate because it cuts against powerful interests

1087
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: actually leaves no room for that respectful debate Gottlib purports

1088
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: he wants to have. So this isn't just culture war

1089
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: fear mongering either. This new mentality dominates big business, big media,

1090
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: and big government, meaning it directly affects the decisions that

1091
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: we make as consumers and voters and parents and children

1092
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: every single day of our lives, because it affects the

1093
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: information we rely on to make those decisions, whether it's

1094
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: about getting boosted or how to make financial decisions, or what,

1095
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: for instance, abortion laws are in your state. Powerful interests

1096
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: are using the boogeyman of disinformation, as Gottlieb did, as

1097
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: a tool to discourage disagreement, pushing it outside mainstream altogether,

1098
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: and even silencing it. Funnily enough, when I interned out

1099
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: a conservative think tank in college, Scott Gottlieb's office was

1100
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: right across from my desk. He was always really nice

1101
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: and really friendly. And that's true of a lot of

1102
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: people with bad ideas, of course, and it's why corporate

1103
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: networks gravitate towards response relatable personalities like him. But it's

1104
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: also kind of a good window into the mindset of

1105
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: a technocrat, someone who sees themselves as one of our

1106
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: benevolent betters, who can fly from building to building like

1107
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: an intellectual superman, rescuing people from the ravages of skepticism.

1108
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: The concentrated power of Silicon Valley is a new tool

1109
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 1: in the technocrats arsenal. With emails or calls to just

1110
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: two or three companies, they can easily exert pressure or

1111
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: control over massive information pipelines to tens of millions of people.

1112
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 1: If they weren't also so cozy with the press, there

1113
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: would be a disincentive to meddle in those companies business

1114
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: inappropriately for fear of being exposed, But the media cheerleads

1115
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: that collusion now under the same technocratic mentality that the

1116
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: public needs protection from ideas that challenge elite dogma. Legitimate

1117
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: disinformation is an opportunity to show your work. Sometimes that's

1118
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: easier than others. But when people don't want to show

1119
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: their work at all, we should be very suspicious. This

1120
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: isn't just some abstract debate for pundits to wax on about.

1121
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: This mentality is hurting us on a daily basis. An

1122
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: easy way out is simply for the media to start

1123
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: stigmatizing this kind of conduct from people in big government

1124
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: and big business, discouraging them from doing it again. But

1125
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: our current media cheerleads it. So we're probably a long

1126
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: way from any improvement. It should be really embarrassing for

1127
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: Scott Gottlieb, as a Pfizer board member, to be UN

1128
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: Secretary General. Antonio Guterrez has proposed sending sending troops to Haiti,

1129
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: an international occupation essentially of the Haitian and we can

1130
01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 1: put this up here. US authorities are apparently lead meaning

1131
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: towards backing uh. This this occupation or this this this

1132
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: true presence being sent onto onto Haiti uh at the

1133
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: same time the island and this is this is what

1134
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: this is in response to the island has been facing

1135
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 1: weeks of protests against economic conditions and political uh political

1136
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: gridlock and corruption in the country. So we're going to

1137
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: be joined to talk about the latest on this by

1138
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 1: Ambassador Dan Foot, who was the who was the envoy

1139
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: UH to Haiti up until fair fairly recently when he

1140
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: uh you know, publicly resigned in protest over some the

1141
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: Biden administration's policy toward Haiti. So, first of all, Ambassadorfoot,

1142
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us here. More than

1143
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: it's great to be with you. Right things and so,

1144
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 1: Haiti doesn't get a whole lot of coverage in the

1145
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: in the American press, and in fact, it was it

1146
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: was occurring to me recently that when we had a

1147
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 1: day or two of a few hundred or maybe you know,

1148
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: more than a thous and people take to the streets

1149
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: of Havana, it led to kind of a week of

1150
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: coverage here in the United States. You know, will will

1151
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: the regime over there fall and on and then they

1152
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: petered out and kind of they were quickly memory hold.

1153
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 1: But you have had weeks of just absolutely massive protests

1154
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 1: in Haiti without without a peep here in the United States.

1155
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: What do you think accounts for the different approach that

1156
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: American media and public takes towards these two islands. I

1157
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: think part of it is Haiti has been through this

1158
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: a number of times and the US public has become

1159
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: a little bit inured against the disaster in Haiti. Also,

1160
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 1: I believe over time that there's a little bit of

1161
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 1: a racism thing where an island, a twelve million and

1162
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,919
Speaker 1: a half an island of twelve people, seems to get

1163
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: less coverage in the United States than other places the

1164
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: similar demograh actors. Yeah, and again, as Ryan mentioned, you

1165
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 1: resigned ambassador. And one thing that I think didn't get

1166
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 1: a lot of play in the new cycle, I mean,

1167
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 1: it's shockingly little amount of play in the news cycle

1168
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: is a report from Todd Benzman recently based on things

1169
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 1: that you have said in the New York Post about

1170
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: how the relationship between Ariol Henri and the United States

1171
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: is based on his willingness to actually accept these migrants

1172
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: that are being deported from the United States back to Haiti,

1173
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: which is a huge deterrent. I've talked to the Haitian

1174
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: migrants at the border who don't want to cross illegally

1175
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 1: because they haven't lived in Haiti for years. They have

1176
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: lived in Argentina and Venezuela and Brazil. So could you

1177
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more, Ambassador, about that decision

1178
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: you made to resign from the administration, What motivated that,

1179
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: what factors behind that decision. The deportations were the straw

1180
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: that broke the camel's back, because A, it's completely counterproductive

1181
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: to our goal of restabilizing Haiti and rejuvenating democracy and

1182
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 1: security and things of that nature. But the major reason

1183
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 1: I resigned is because I saw US policy moving in

1184
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 1: exactly this direction toward intervention, which is, as Einstein said

1185
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: in a paraphrase, trying the same thing over and over

1186
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: again and expecting a different result is insanity. And in Haiti,

1187
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 1: each time the international community has intervened without Haitian popular support,

1188
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:58,719
Speaker 1: the situation is stabilized temporarely, and then it becomes much

1189
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:04,520
Speaker 1: worse over time. So since ninety four, we've interviewed intervened

1190
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: three times, arguably, I guess, and each time he has

1191
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 1: gotten much worse, to the point now where I can't

1192
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: even believe that Haiti's in this hemisphere. It is similar

1193
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:24,520
Speaker 1: to Somalia or Afghanists and the quality of life and

1194
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:28,480
Speaker 1: the tragedy of these people. See the hunger, the poverty,

1195
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:34,839
Speaker 1: the violence is similar to the most conflict based places

1196
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: on the planet right now. And so in the July

1197
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, Jovenil Moyes was assassinated. The new leader,

1198
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: the facto leader of Haiti Ariel Henri has been implicated by,

1199
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: you know, by very serious journalists, and the evidence does

1200
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: seem to offer some legitimate connection between on and the

1201
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: assassination of Muli's you know, as somebody who was watching

1202
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:11,719
Speaker 1: this closely, what's your view on how that all unfolded it? Well,

1203
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: first of all, when President Moyes was assassinated, the acting

1204
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:18,679
Speaker 1: Prime Minister at the time, a gentleman named Claude Joseph,

1205
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 1: stepped forward. The Asian constitution sort of broke because of

1206
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:25,560
Speaker 1: COVID and the fact that they don't have a parliament,

1207
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: which expired. Ten days later, the United States, the UN,

1208
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: and the international community, via press release told the world

1209
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 1: that it would now work with Arielnrie as the Prime

1210
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: Minister of Haiti, completely catching all Haitians off guard. They

1211
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: all found him to be completely illegitimate. Now, when you

1212
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: go to the assassination, there are a number of ties

1213
01:10:54,200 --> 01:11:00,520
Speaker 1: between de facto Prime Minister Arielnrie and actors in thesassination,

1214
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: including a gentleman Joseph Badio, who is believed to be

1215
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:09,600
Speaker 1: the intellectual author of the assassination, including twelve phone calls

1216
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 1: right around the time of the assassination. Arie Henry has

1217
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 1: never answered me, you, the US government, the Haitian people.

1218
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:22,640
Speaker 1: He's just ignored that. And he's certainly guilty of obstructing

1219
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 1: justice if you look at the number of judges that

1220
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: he's fired and the obstacles he's put up in the

1221
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: Haitian justice system to look towards the assassination. So he

1222
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 1: hasn't worked for justice towards the assassination. He hasn't answered

1223
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: the questions and the implications, and on flabbergast that the

1224
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: United States continues to back the guy without being certain

1225
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: that he had nothing to do with the assassination of

1226
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: haities out of state in his bedroom, and the turmoil

1227
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 1: and unrest that people are saying now in headlines, although

1228
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: not probably as many headlines as they should is stemming

1229
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: from the humanitarian crisis related to food, fuel prices, related

1230
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 1: to poverty and cost of living. Can you tell us

1231
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 1: a little bit more about the policy from Henri towards fuel,

1232
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: the policy that he's taken and how it may have

1233
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 1: sparked protests that started about fuel and then became so

1234
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: much bigger to the point where the New York Times

1235
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 1: is calling this quote a low intensity civil war. What

1236
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: is Henri doing and what could he be doing that

1237
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: would perhaps quell some of this? So since he was

1238
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 1: installed in July of last year, twenty twenty one, Ariel

1239
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 1: Henry has done very little to appease the population, to

1240
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:51,640
Speaker 1: improve conditions, security or otherwise. And he has ties to

1241
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: the gangs down there, and he has had some frustrating

1242
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:59,639
Speaker 1: relationships with the gangs, but he's still related to them.

1243
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: As he lifted subsidies on fuel in Haiti recently, the

1244
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:10,639
Speaker 1: price of gas rose to about twenty dollars a gale

1245
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 1: on the street support of prints, so people can't afford

1246
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: to go to the store, to go to the doctor,

1247
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 1: to go anywhere. Hospitals don't have fuel and as a result,

1248
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: the people have come out in force to protest, which

1249
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 1: is in Haiti, the only way for them to let

1250
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: their voices be heard. And the international community, the typically

1251
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 1: is taking a page from our historical playbook and blaming

1252
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 1: the riots, not unpopular dissent with an illegitimate, ineffective and

1253
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 1: possibly assassin acting prime minister, but they blame the oligarchs

1254
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 1: and economic factions for paying the people to protest. These

1255
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: people are desperate, they're angry, they're not being paid to protest.

1256
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 1: They want to better life and they want it without

1257
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 1: Ariel on Reed. And if the United States and the

1258
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:10,440
Speaker 1: internationals go in with military force to take on the gangs,

1259
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: they will be supporting arielan Reed, who's becoming more dictatorial

1260
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 1: by the day. So at the top of the segment,

1261
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 1: I was kind of struggling to find the right terms

1262
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 1: to use to describe kind of an armed intervention in

1263
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 1: Haiti by the international community. So can you talk about

1264
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 1: what is being proposed by the UN and apparently backed

1265
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 1: by the United States here and what the history of

1266
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 1: such armed interventions has been over the last couple of

1267
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: decades there without being privy to the details of what's

1268
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 1: going on in New York. Right now, Ryan, let's go

1269
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 1: back to the peacekeeping operation that grew out of the

1270
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: two thousand and four intervention, which was called Minustad in Haiti.

1271
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 1: I won't go into the French ack or because my

1272
01:14:55,840 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: French is horrible, but Minus was on the streets a

1273
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 1: mult national force for over twenty years in Haiti. I

1274
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 1: first experienced it in the wake of the earthquake and

1275
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,880
Speaker 1: then in the two years after the earthquake, and at

1276
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 1: the time gangs were a problem in Haiti, particularly site

1277
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 1: Sole and Manusta went in there and took on the gangs.

1278
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,720
Speaker 1: But I actually talked to a general in Manusta who

1279
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: told me about back in two thousand and four when

1280
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:30,640
Speaker 1: he was a major them going into the slums of

1281
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: Haiti and not being able to tell the good guys

1282
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: from the band guys and just sort of like like

1283
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: taking care of business and let God sort them out.

1284
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 1: So manus to post earthquake brought cholera back to Haiti

1285
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 1: after one hundred years without being in that part of

1286
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 1: the islands. So Haitians are not pleased about that. There

1287
01:15:55,040 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 1: were huge problems with sexual exploitation by the peacekeepers, and

1288
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 1: at the end of the day as extra judicial killings

1289
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: and other allegations, and Haiti didn't get that much better.

1290
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 1: So an internacial force will go in. I think that

1291
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 1: the goal will be a quick strike against some of

1292
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: these gangs, but we have really limited intelligence on the gangs.

1293
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 1: And the problem in Haiti historically with foreign interventions is

1294
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: that we have great difficulty differentiating the gangs, the bad

1295
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 1: people in Haiti from the innocent civilians who are protesting

1296
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 1: for a better life. And I fear you send troops

1297
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:43,840
Speaker 1: in to support a dictator ariel and read and it

1298
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 1: could turn into a yeah. And I want to ask you, ambassador,

1299
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:54,759
Speaker 1: about what more specifically a bloodbath could look like in Haiti,

1300
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: because we know already there are problems with hunger, there

1301
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: are obviously immense problems with violence. So going forward, say

1302
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 1: there is military intervention from the UN, from the US,

1303
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: or say there isn't, because either way the consequences for

1304
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,799
Speaker 1: Haiti are immediately dire, or either way there is immense

1305
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 1: suffering on the horizon. So what is the future the

1306
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:24,839
Speaker 1: immediate future for Haiti in either circumstance, Well, the future

1307
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 1: or the current situation is certainly dire, and it has

1308
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,640
Speaker 1: been for a year it continues to get worse, but

1309
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: we've ignored it for a year, despite the fact that

1310
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 1: the US administration was told pretty clearly in my resignation

1311
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 1: letter what would happen in Haite if we continued with

1312
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 1: our policies, and it will continue to get worse. The

1313
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 1: underlying issue is the Haitians believe that they have a solution,

1314
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:56,640
Speaker 1: and the US and internationals have never let the Haitians

1315
01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 1: come up with their own socio politicals, so we are

1316
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:06,600
Speaker 1: always supporting unpopular ideas when we go in with a

1317
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:13,799
Speaker 1: military intervention. If the United States stops ignoring Haiti's civil

1318
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 1: society and opposition political folks who came up with a

1319
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:26,440
Speaker 1: consensus agreement to have a provisional transitional government to restore

1320
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:34,639
Speaker 1: security and help create the conditions where acceptable elections, credible

1321
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: elections can be held, then I believe Haiti has a

1322
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 1: chance to move forward in the right direction. We go

1323
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 1: in to back Arielan Read, the de facto Prime Minister,

1324
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 1: with the difficulty we have differentiating between adversaries and innocence

1325
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,719
Speaker 1: in Haiti, I believe that the Haitian people are going

1326
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 1: to not take kindly to that, and we may wind

1327
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: up fighting the Haitian people who believe that we're supporting

1328
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 1: a dictator who's not in their interest. And it is

1329
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:12,719
Speaker 1: the US not supporting a Haitian driven solution because they

1330
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 1: rely on having Ariel Henri and they're so that the

1331
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 1: Biden administration can continue its deportation policy. That's my best guess. Ryan.

1332
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 1: It's almost unfathomable that all Haitians are calling for a

1333
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 1: different solution, yet the US and the UN and internationals

1334
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: are blindly stumbling through with Ariel Andrie has got to

1335
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 1: be because he has promised to be compliant. But we're

1336
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 1: going to have a civil uprising in Haiti, similar to

1337
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:54,360
Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen when we sent the Marines in for the

1338
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: first time in administered Haiti for almost twenty years. In

1339
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,679
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty hey fifteen, Haiti was in a similar position

1340
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 1: and they went up to the French ambassy at the time,

1341
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 1: or legauge, and they dragged the president, President sam Out,

1342
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:12,839
Speaker 1: and they tore him limb from limb on the streets.

1343
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,919
Speaker 1: And I fear that you're going to see something similar

1344
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 1: with Aril or with a foreign force that's sent in

1345
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:26,680
Speaker 1: there to propagate his government and kind of keep him

1346
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 1: and if he's responsive to those negotiating letters on levers

1347
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 1: on migrants. Perhaps he's responsive to negotiating levers on other

1348
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: questions in a way that Anthony Blincoln and the Biden

1349
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 1: administration would appreciate. And I guess that's my question, right,

1350
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: that's my question, ambassador, is you know, having worked very

1351
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 1: closely with this administration and sort of seeing its policy

1352
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 1: up close, do you have confidence going forward? You know,

1353
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: we've talked about the options that seem to be on

1354
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:58,640
Speaker 1: the table, and we've talked about the consequences that they

1355
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: could have stimistic are you about US policy, about the

1356
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:05,360
Speaker 1: Biden administration's policy towards Haiti in the coming months, weeks

1357
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 1: and months if they support UN intervention and we move

1358
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 1: forward with that unheartbroken frankly, because it's not going to work.

1359
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:20,600
Speaker 1: It can restore stability temporarily, but it will not be sustainable.

1360
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:25,559
Speaker 1: There's no state in Haiti on which the people can

1361
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 1: hang their head, and if the current illegitimate government holds elections,

1362
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: they won't be acceptable by the Haitian people. If Ariolanri

1363
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 1: is involved in any government that holds elections, you might

1364
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 1: as well not even hold them because the people won't

1365
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 1: accept them, and we will continue to be in a

1366
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 1: place where they are governed by foreigners. Basic it goes

1367
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:56,680
Speaker 1: back to our policy, unspoken US policy that's been going

1368
01:21:56,680 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: down for two hundred plusure years. And I've heard this

1369
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:02,440
Speaker 1: in hushed homes in the back quarters of the State Department.

1370
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 1: What drives our Haiti policy is this unspoken belief that

1371
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:13,240
Speaker 1: these dumb black people can't govern themselves. And you've been

1372
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:18,599
Speaker 1: unusually outspoken since your resignation. What's the response been from

1373
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:25,080
Speaker 1: your former colleagues. From my actual friends, they are supportive.

1374
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: And from my former friends and the policy makers right

1375
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 1: now who are more concerned with their careers than they

1376
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:40,440
Speaker 1: are with US foreign policy. I don't have any relationship

1377
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:43,679
Speaker 1: with most of them whatsoever, and I believe that they're

1378
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: undermining US national security because as long as Haiti is

1379
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,240
Speaker 1: unstable and the gangs are running it, you are seeing

1380
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 1: a ton of illicit drugs, arms, people, and worse going

1381
01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:01,800
Speaker 1: through hate and coming to the United States. Heard that

1382
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the arms are coming through, particularly through

1383
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:07,800
Speaker 1: Jamaica and what do they call it, the guns for

1384
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: the guns for Ganja kind of pipeline. What are the

1385
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 1: other fuel from Dominican Republic, and what are the other

1386
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:17,679
Speaker 1: national security implications, like what what is becoming of Haiti

1387
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: as a as a failed state as it relates to

1388
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,000
Speaker 1: the US well as a fild state. You know, we're

1389
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 1: looking at the immigration consequences daily, right, Haitians want to

1390
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 1: leave Haiti. If we were there, we did the same thing.

1391
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:34,680
Speaker 1: It is unlivable there, So you're going to see continued

1392
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:42,559
Speaker 1: increased immigration demand, including in unsaved boats and crossing very

1393
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 1: dangerous places like the Dairian and Panama, etc. You're also

1394
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:52,200
Speaker 1: running the risk and vulnerability of this kind of free

1395
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 1: for all with drugs and arms and human citizens and

1396
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 1: Russians and and you know North Koreans running around. You're

1397
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 1: creating the opportunity for our real world adversaries to set

1398
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 1: up shop and to destabilize the United States from an

1399
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 1: hour and forty minutes from miaim to stabilize Cuba. See

1400
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:21,919
Speaker 1: what happens. Distabilize Hey, see what happens? And it's so absurd.

1401
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 1: We're creating a failed state so that we can deport

1402
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 1: people to it, which then means there will be more

1403
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:32,639
Speaker 1: migrants that we will then have to deport an ever

1404
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 1: greater numbers. It's also an interesting, I'll go ahead and investor. Well,

1405
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 1: my argument is, let's give the Haitians a chance to

1406
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,679
Speaker 1: mess their own country up for once. I have seen

1407
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:48,080
Speaker 1: us do it a number of times. I was actually

1408
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:52,599
Speaker 1: part of the twenty ten post earthquake reconstruction planning, so

1409
01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:56,440
Speaker 1: I know how not to fix Haiti. We've done it numerous.

1410
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,799
Speaker 1: Give them a chance to fix themselves. What's the worst

1411
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 1: thing and do. They can't do any worse than the

1412
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:04,720
Speaker 1: United States and the international community has done it. And

1413
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,919
Speaker 1: I guarantee you they're going to do better because they

1414
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 1: know they could treat and they're going to be bought

1415
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 1: into their own solutions as opposed to being told what

1416
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:18,599
Speaker 1: to do. Right, wait for and one of the totally

1417
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 1: forgotten I think generally totally forgotten consequences of the invasion

1418
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 1: of Ukraine, because this is stemming also from high food

1419
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 1: food prices and inflation, and it all sort of was

1420
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:31,400
Speaker 1: a ripple effect. And Haiti is not alone. There are

1421
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 1: other countries that are dealing with us too because to

1422
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:41,520
Speaker 1: the edge. Yeah, price hikes and corrupt governments are terrible combination. Well, Ambassadfoot,

1423
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:44,519
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure.

1424
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: Thanks for your attention to aid. You guys much appreciated.

1425
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:51,240
Speaker 1: You got it, and they'll do it for us for today,

1426
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,479
Speaker 1: that's right, But if you're not, we will be back tomorrow.

1427
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow. We'll have we're gonna we're going

1428
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:59,800
Speaker 1: to talk about the protests in Iran. That's right. We're

1429
01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:02,080
Speaker 1: going to have a guest who's going to join us

1430
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 1: from Aron Sattar Sadiki. What else we got tomorrow? We

1431
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,400
Speaker 1: have Congressman Cunn Buck is scheduled to be on the program.

1432
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 1: You know, Congressional schedules can always be able tricky, so

1433
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:14,599
Speaker 1: hopefully that works out. Otherwise we'll make sure to get him,

1434
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 1: and we will of course be covering the anti trust.

1435
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 1: We just saw that one of the FTC, Republican FTC

1436
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:23,920
Speaker 1: commissioner ended up at Amazon, i think right after leaving.

1437
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 1: So that's a story we'll cover tomorrow for sure. So surprising. Yeah,

1438
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:31,080
Speaker 1: it's something to that. This is a great opportunity, and

1439
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,440
Speaker 1: we'll talk to Buck about this great opportunity for Republicans

1440
01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: to put an actual populist on the FTC. Yeah, that's

1441
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:38,599
Speaker 1: that's a really good point. Going to be a huge fight. Yeah,

1442
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:40,800
Speaker 1: he started it does Holly win that fight and get

1443
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,800
Speaker 1: a populace on there. That's a really good question, and

1444
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 1: that's something we'll talk about tomorrow. He's working for Google

1445
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: and Amazon as a lawyer. He's an ex FTC commissioner.

1446
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:53,080
Speaker 1: His last day was last week and he's immediately started,

1447
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:56,360
Speaker 1: according to Matt Solder, at Google and Amazon as a lawyer.

1448
01:26:56,479 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 1: So we'll be all over that, We'll hopefully have Congressman

1449
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 1: buck on to talk about it, and we will be

1450
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:03,559
Speaker 1: breaking down all of the big news from around the

1451
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:06,320
Speaker 1: world this week, tomorrow and then Friday as well. So

1452
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: we appreciate everyone sticking with us on this Monday and Tuesday.

1453
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:12,680
Speaker 1: As crystalin Sager, I know they had a great time

1454
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 1: in Chicago, love that city and loved seeing all of

1455
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 1: you guys. So we'll be back tomorrow. We'll be back Friday,

1456
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:22,880
Speaker 1: but you'll be getting Crystal and Sager too. See you soon.