WEBVTT - Restoring a Seth Raynor Design in Minnesota 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.760 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.520 And when I find my ball in arid egg Friday 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:12.040 Egg There, Frida Egg Friday, fridag Bride Egg Lie. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.080 I'm about ready to run off of the course. 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:39.080 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Golf Podcast. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.800 I am your host Andy Johnson. Today's episode, I am 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:49.199 joined by Mike Manthy. Mike is the head superintendent at 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.960 Midland Hills Country Club. It is in the Minneapolis St. 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.240 Paul area. It is a Seth Rayner design that recently 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:03.400 went underwent a restorer from Jim Urbina. Mike has a 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.080 really super interesting story with you know, kind of how 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.640 their restoration plans changed from finding a Seth Rayner plan 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.200 late in the process. So we get into his career 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.360 a little bit into music and and just you know, 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:23.399 restoring a Seth Rayner and underlooked, underregarded Seth Rayner that 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:28.840 I think, you know, should get more coverage in the 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.880 in the Midwest as one of the really good golf 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.760 courses in the Midwest. So we we dive into all that. 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:42.080 This episode is brought to you by Toro Up and Down, 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.120 Ham and Egg to the list of great golf pairings, 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.920 we now add the toroal Workman MDX and Electrification. 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I, 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.000 you know, when I visited Midland Hills this summer, you were, 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.040 you know, in between a couple shows. I think you 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.799 were leaving that night to go see the National And 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.760 I got to ask, what what's been your favorite show, 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.720 concert or other show I guess that you've seen in 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.799 the last year. Uh. 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.800 I'm a huge Walkman fan. So the Walkman got back 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:01.840 to the other after a decade off kind of a 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.560 sucker for the old old uh get get get the 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:10.760 band back together scenario. So saw them in UH in Manhattan, 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.120 which was a blast. So that's that's probably a that's 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.120 that's the top of my list. The Nationals good. The 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.760 Nationals great band, but they're not I'll probably get some 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.360 slack fits for like a great live band band. 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.520 Having seen the national live, I kind of agree like 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.480 there's just there's maybe not enough energy and maybe there 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:40.920 a combination of energy with older crowd leads to like 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:42.800 it's kind of just a weird scene. 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:44.839 Yeah, it's like an empty parking lot. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:53.320 You said it the uh let me with the reunion show, 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.600 you know, getting a band back together. I imagine you had 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:01.000 some like nostalgia from your twenties huge. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:01.920 Yeah, yep. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.440 I had this thing with the Chili Peppers. I had 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.800 seen him live when I was in college, and then 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.080 when I saw him again live and they played at 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.800 the United Center, which was you know, that's always a 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.680 rough scene in Chicago, but I like walked away like, man, 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.760 they don't have the same stuff they had then Yeah, 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.400 did you have any of that feeling or was it 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:23.839 better than you expected? 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:30.200 I think the anticipation was so great that I think 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.400 they I think it delivered. It delivered. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.000 Yeah, do you have is there? What's your favorite place 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:38.839 in Minneapolis to see a show? 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.000 I mean, obviously the Old School First Avenue is a 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:48.839 famous venue, which you know everybody from Prince to Chili 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.880 Peppers have played before they were big. The Palace Theaters 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.680 has got great acoustics. I mean anything outside now, Like 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.520 I love how a lot of bands are trying to 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.240 play outside. Our local brewery Surly has got it awesome 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.080 outdoor venue which is which is a blast. So I'll 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:09.440 see any anybody anywhere. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:15.480 To be honest, I mean outdoor summer music. The best 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.920 just doesn't doesn't really get better. It's it's like it's 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.400 I just think that this brings a lot of great 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.720 memories of my younger years when I think about that. 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.760 So let's talk a little bit about your profession. I'm 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.080 sure you wish it was something in music sometimes, but 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.919 but I would love to hear. I think one of 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:43.839 the most fascinating golf course stories in the last five 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:49.359 to ten years was you guys finding this rainer plan 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.560 out of nowhere. Ye could you just walk tell us 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:58.400 the story of finding this plan, how it happened, where 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.880 you were in your rest duration plan. 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:07.080 Yeah, yeah, it's obviously. It was a blast to kind 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.359 of make a splash in the golf market for the 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:15.560 the true architecture enthusiasts, you know, little Midland Hills. Mad 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.800 Mad made some headlines which was so which was a blast. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.159 It was a blast for our membership. It was also 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:27.360 a blast for the process because at the time we 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:29.680 had already approved a master plan with Jim Orbina, who 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.360 we'd been working with for several years, and he had 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.920 seen enough Rainer to know and looking at our aerials 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.880 that we were a rainer. But we just, like a 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.520 lot of clubs, we don't have proof, right, We never 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:46.120 had a drawing of any kind. Our first area was 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.360 nineteen thirty seven. We knew from our club minutes. We 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.960 actually have club minutes all the way back to nineteen nineteen, 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:57.840 which is awesome. They're all cataloged in books, hand typewrited' 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:02.640 they're sweet. So we knew the background, but we didn't 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:06.120 have the proof. So I would say it was like 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:10.480 twenty sixteen. We engaged with Jim and started working on 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.640 the master plan. Took a nice slow route to kind 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:22.200 of set objectives and budgets. And during that process, probably 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.280 this time of year in twenty eighteen, I was super 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.040 bored in my office and I have a closet and 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.640 I have the ceiling tile that was in there crooked, 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.360 and for like a decade I looked at this. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:40.600 You just ignored the crooked ceiling tile. Yeah, so just 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.560 like the creaky door at your house. 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:48.600 Super creaky. Yeah, you just so anyway, you know, winters 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.720 are long here, they can be and uh, I was like, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.160 I'm gonna just fix this. We're not finally gonna fix it. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:56.760 So I take my chair and I put it in 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:01.760 my closet. And before I put the tile back, ceiling 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.200 tail back, I'm like, I wonder what's up here? So 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.120 I start snoop around up above the ceiling and sure 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.880 enough I find this rolled up piece of paper. And 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.560 my assistant at the my as system had to was 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.920 at his desk and I said, Mark, you gotta come 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:19.600 look at this. And I rolled it out on the carpet, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:24.360 and I mean it was like it was like finding 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:28.480 buried treasure. Right the first thing I looked at was 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.200 the stamp on it, which was nineteen twenty one, and 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.439 it's not a Rainer. Well we don't know if Rayner 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.839 drew it, but it's a Craning hardway. Craning Hardway was 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:43.960 an irrigation well company from Saint Paul. We think what 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:49.600 it is is it's drawn over up some type of 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:58.200 drawing a blueprint from Rainer. So after that came out, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:03.599 kind of talked to leadership at the club and say, hey, 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:08.880 this doesn't change things, but this this changes things. It 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.400 changes everything. And a lot of a lot of assumptions 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.640 that Jim had made, that I had made, that a 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:21.120 lot of our long tenured members had made about certain 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:26.000 holes and what was lost were kind of there on 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:27.120 paper all of a sudden. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:31.839 Was that the first thing you found when you went 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.160 up there, that was the only thing, that was the 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.000 only thing that was up there, the only thing that 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:41.040 was unbelievable. Yeah, and that that one of my follow 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.880 up question is exactly what you just hit on. I 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.600 feel like there are so many clubs that don't have 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:51.560 a plan, and what we you know, end up having 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:56.640 is architects that have a deep understanding of architects of 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.880 old architects like like Jim has of Seth Rayner, you know, 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.520 like Tom Dokaz of an architect like Gil Hans has 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.280 done in so many places end up putting back what 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:14.280 they think was there. Yes, how did your plan that 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:19.040 was all assumption based? Like, what are a couple examples 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.160 of it changing once the plan was there? Were there 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:27.880 any general themes that you that were really different? 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:32.280 Well, I think the main one that that solidified the 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.360 assumption was is that Rainer didn't use a lot of 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.920 ferry bunkers here because he used the topography as the 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.200 hazard you had to. There was tons of blind shots 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.800 out here because the corridors were so huge. 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.440 I think for people that I'm going to assume that 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.080 the vast majority of people listening to this have never 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.880 visited your property, but I would say that it was 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.400 one of the revelations of my year last year was 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:05.000 how stunning, I mean how stunning of a property. Midland 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:10.880 Hills sits on the back nine is extraordinary land for golf, 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:17.120 like perfectly scaled contours like that, choppy rolling, irregular hills 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:24.880 which leads to amazing fairway contours, amazing fairway natural hazards 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:29.080 and then tremendous green sites. And the front nine's got 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.120 a little bit more severe. It's a little bit different shaped, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.600 but that's also it's a very dramatic front nine. But 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.720 the back nine, I would say, is just it's out 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.200 of this world for golf. It's one of the least 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.360 talked about really good golf courses in America. 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.640 Yeah, I think, well, I appreciate that. In you know, 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:55.400 as a superintendent, you always from an architectural standpoint, you 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.920 think about the potential of the property you take care of. 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.440 And when I start here in twenty ten, it was 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.959 covered in trees, and two thousand trees later that have 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:10.240 been taken out. We now have that gift to regift 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:15.480 to the membership and reinforce what this golf course was 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.440 all about and was the land. So some other things 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:25.959 that maybe the plan solidified from assumption wise is, for example, 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:31.160 the road hole. We knew there was ferry bunkers on 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:35.319 the outside of the dog leg, and one of our shapers, 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:41.000 Zach Vardy, was Jim Is like, I'm pretty sure this 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.800 bunker was here, but there was no landform to find anything, 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.920 And sure enough Zach started excavating and found the original 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.880 bunker's hand. So that happened many times throughout the project, 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.400 where Jim said, I think there was a bunker here. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.480 I think it the bunker extended to this point. And 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.600 you know, the soils don't lie. If you dig down, 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.920 you'll find history. You know, you'll find the history if 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:12.280 you dig. And so those things happened several times throughout 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.640 the project, and they were a blast. I mean, we 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.480 had to take moments to just call everybody over to 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.080 see what we found because it was it was it's 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.839 just so fun. Irrigation cisterns that were buried next to 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.240 greens that we had found. You know, those are over 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:33.240 one hundred years old and they were basically intact. Yeah, 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:34.680 a lot of that, a lot of that stuff that 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.880 happened just kind of built to the story. That was 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:42.480 kind of our story. You know, like you said, most 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.840 of your listeners have never probably even heard of Middle Hills, 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.679 but Jim had saw the potential in the place. And 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:55.160 when we got finished, you know, we were to give 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.440 it back to membership and then to see the the 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.040 reaction is it's been a last You. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:07.240 Guys did a full shutdown for the renovation. How did 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.880 you guys go about selling the membership over that You 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.960 talked about it being a long term kind of sell. 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.160 How was that process conveyed and what were the big 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.400 moments that got you over the hump to get the 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:24.640 work done. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:29.280 Yeah. I think the first and foremost thing that Jim 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.760 preached to the membership was we want to make this 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:38.160 golf course as fun as possible, and that's for everybody. 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.800 Wasn't to make it harder. It wasn't to make it easier. 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.120 It was to make it as fun as possible to play. 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.680 With that being said, I think the campaigning that took 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:56.440 place was to you know, if you have three hundred members, 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.520 it's hard to get them all together in one room. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.680 It's they all have different objectives, they all have different 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.240 personal wants. They all want to hold on to something 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.480 that currently they have in the golf course that they 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:13.080 think is going to change. You know, golf is an 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:17.000 emotional sport, especially when you're very intimate with a property 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.240 you've been at for a long time. You have a 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.200 certain level of ownership, and change is hard. So we 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.000 had to talk through all those things. I think one 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.440 of the successful things we did is we broke out 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:36.120 into kind of assigning members to talk to certain demographic 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:41.000 parts of our membership to explain to them, you know, look, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.560 we're not going to we're not stretching out every hole. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:48.720 This isn't to chase the scorecard. So we did a 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:58.480 really good job of trying to group everybody into abilities, age, 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:04.080 skill level, you know, enjoyment, and really talk about how 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.120 we're gonna make it, make it a funner golf course. 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.440 It wasn't just about architecture that came with restoring that 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:19.440 architecture came with making it fun for everybody. Angles with 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.720 the ability just to put the ball from sixty yards out, 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:29.760 all those things we couldn't do before. It was a 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.000 it was a slow process, but I for us, we 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.240 weren't in a rush. We were fortunate not to be 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:35.880 in a rush that we didn't have to do it 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:43.640 out of necessity. But it it it felt like the 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:48.400 process stalled at some point. It never did stall, it 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.520 just was there was There was moments where you got 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:56.880 frustrated with not feeling like you were making momentum. But 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:01.520 the but the culture of this club was one that 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.000 we hired in our in architect, who we had a 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:10.680 ton of trust in. He built that relationship over time, 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.720 and he wanted to make sure that after the project 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.119 was over, he wasn't just packing up his circus and 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.000 leaving town. He wanted to continue the relationship for the 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:28.720 long term and to continue to evaluate the work that 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.720 we did and going forward with tweaks. So it was 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:40.080 a I think every every restoration renovation has its cultural fit. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:45.760 Ours was to embrace the architecture which was Seth Reiner, 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:51.119 which would obviously make our our property more attractable in 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:56.640 a competitive market, but it was to really have our 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:01.120 our end users just have a better experience. And that's 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:02.760 kind of how it's turned out so far. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.840 How would you say with Rainer, he's obviously become a 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.639 bit of a cult hero and golf architecture over the 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.080 last ten to fifteen years. How have you seen it 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.560 at the local level? Probably, you know, I don't want 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.760 to mischaracterize Midland Hills, but you know, I imagine ten years 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:27.639 ago nobody talked about Midland Hills being this Rainer golf course. 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:32.480 How have you noticed at the course level the perception 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:38.320 and the the stature of your golf course change because 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:42.800 of just the association with Seth Rayner. Yeah, that was 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.560 and did that help with the with the selling of 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:46.280 the restoration. 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.440 It didn't I would say it didn't help with the cell. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.800 It was kind of an unspoken thing that a couple 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.359 of us at the club knew or hope that was 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:01.480 going to happen. Because of again, our our membership isn't 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:07.080 isn't really concerned about accolades or recognition. It's a pretty quiet, 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:12.359 sleepy place, but it it we all there was, there 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.280 was a small group of us that knew what the 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.240 potential was and probably looking at at other examples of 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.159 clubs that have gone through this, what would happen on 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:27.520 the other side on a local level. I think it's 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.800 opened a lot of people's eyes to a few things. 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:36.080 We did our project kind of an untraditional sense from 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.639 we didn't spend a massive amount of money doing it. 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.879 We implemented our own staff into the into the construction phase, 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.560 which saved us a ton of money and it and 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:54.399 it increased our quality control. Uh. But it also we 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.080 have we have now we have people that are that 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:58.960 are at other clubs in town that we want to 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.720 come see us to experience it that had zero interest 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:07.120 in before. So yeah, it was kind of reaffirmation from 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.160 telling kind of the naysayers that hey, if we do this, 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.640 it's going to improve your enjoyment of the golf course, 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.600 but it's also going to shed a spotlight of how 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:17.800 cool this place really is. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:23.439 I feel like a lot of times I a small 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.399 percentage of people can see what a course can be, 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:32.119 and being one of those and working there all the time, 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:37.760 it has to be somewhat frustrating sometimes to hear people's 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:44.320 negativity towards a place and know that it they just 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:48.120 don't see what it could be. And then it's got 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:56.879 to be extraordinarily rewarding afterward when that whole kind of 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:58.560 discourse flips. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.640 Yeah. Yeah, it's like a curran on a classic painting. 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:04.720 You know, you just have to get vince people to 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.520 take the cran off. And that's really where kind of 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:12.800 our project started. Andy was eight ten years ago. We 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:17.240 started to remove things from the property, which was just 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:22.520 the extracurricular things that typical country clubs had, right your 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.880 retaining walls and your flower beds and your stairs and 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.640 chilt and stones and all of those things that were 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:35.080 part of a trend. We started to remove those things. 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.919 And you know, I think are being a said it 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.360 really well and he said, we know we've arrived when 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.439 there's nothing left to remove, and that really resonated with 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:49.159 me about really playing golf course on a property, in 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:54.360 promoting it in any way you can, and that's kind 0:21:54.359 --> 0:22:12.439 of what we did. It's just golf out there. 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.240 All right. Let's take a quick break and talk about 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:17.440 the Toro Vista. Moving people around comfortably and efficiently is 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.760 an important job for any golf property and for other 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:26.520 sprawling places like campuses, event spaces and municipalities. The Toro 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.920 Vista is perfect for all of them. 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Is there a favorite 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.160 hole or section of holes in terms of the transformation 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:16.800 that every time you go out and you just kind 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:17.720 of smile about. 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:23.240 I mean, the back nine is obviously special. The back 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:27.399 nine is is a fantastic walk, and it's got some 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:32.280 like you said, it's got that classic rumpled land and 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:35.640 huge scale. The front nine, for me, I think has 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:41.000 taken the biggest transformation. And everybody's always you know, members 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:42.200 always want to play the back nine. 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:47.280 But I love how it's funny. As a quick aside, 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:49.520 I was playing the front nine and I'm like, ah, 0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:51.840 this is really good. And the person I was playing 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:55.400 with was a former member and he's like, just wait 0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:57.000 till you get to the back Just wait till and 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:00.760 I'm playing the front I'm like, oh, he keeps saying this, like. 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:05.840 You know, so I think like the our Eden, which 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.960 is the seventh hole to part three, and then you know, 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:11.199 you play around the lake. The cool part about the 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:13.720 Eden has got a water behind the green, you know, 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:15.280 which is as close as you're going to get to 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:20.080 the St. Andrew's Estuary is in Minnesota, right, I mean, 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.239 Rainer saw that and he was like, there was no 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:25.520 other option to put the eat in there. And then 0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:28.920 you play around the lake, you play the nole hole, 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:32.200 and then you play the case. Yeah, epic no hole. 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:35.480 The scale of it, it's it's really hard to capture 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:39.840 on even in a picture. And I put it up 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.960 there with piping rock. It's really really solid, and it's 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:45.680 a it's a hole that you can make a three 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:47.879 and you can make a six. You know you've got 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:50.800 a good hole when any day of the week, you 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:54.840 know you might lose your score card on that hole. 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:58.800 But that those that that three hill stretch is really 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.760 great from the front, you know, and then you get 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:04.680 to the back. Obviously, the re dan is a very 0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:09.359 unique dan, and I'm glad we didn't change it. We could. 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:11.399 We could talk about that how most rare dans look 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:15.560 like carbon copies. Ours is anything but and uh, you know, 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:18.400 to stand on that green and see the skyline of 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:20.359 downtown Minneapolis is pretty cool. 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:23.760 When did you first realize that you could get the 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:26.520 skyline out of the property, Like, was there did you 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:28.760 take down? Was there one tree that came down? 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:32.040 Yeah, the whole back then, and it was I mean 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:36.040 there's probably fifteen hundred trees in the back nine that 0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:39.520 came out to really promote that it was. I mean 0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:45.960 it's been a rewarding part. The tree removal has been 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:50.120 a rewarding part, but it's been literally the hardest part 0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:52.639 of this whole process because we did ninety percent of 0:25:52.680 --> 0:25:56.240 it in house, and it's NonStop, you know, it ends 0:25:56.359 --> 0:26:00.280 it It starts in November and it ends in June 0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:03.040 when you get the stumps kind of grown in. So 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:07.879 that's been the you know, the kind of the heavy 0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:09.440 heavy lifting was the tree work. 0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:14.600 This is a good topic in house tree removal versus 0:26:14.880 --> 0:26:17.959 contracting out. What what are the advantages of doing it 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:21.359 in house and what are the toughest things about doing it? 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:23.520 Like why do people contract it out? 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:27.000 Well, I think the first thing is the risk, right, 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:30.560 I mean risk of mitigation anytime you're running chainsaws and 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:33.760 wood chippers. I mean that's that's no joke. So a 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.480 certain amount of training needs to take place, and you 0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:39.879 have to have the right capital to be able to 0:26:40.440 --> 0:26:44.280 pull that off. You have to have the patience for 0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:49.200 it too. Our process was kind of slow and steady. 0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:53.440