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Speaker 1: These towers. They're like high tech scarecrows out in the desert.

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Speaker 1: They're mounted at around one hundred feet tall because the

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Speaker 1: whole purpose of the towers is get up and above

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Speaker 1: the landscape, so you can see a wide area and

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Speaker 1: if you can see the towers right, they can see you.

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Speaker 2: Fran Fuduro Media and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Marienno Rossac.

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Speaker 2: Today a story about how new bordered technology is impacting

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Speaker 2: communities in the United States. We go to Arizona, where

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Speaker 2: private companies built some of the first surveillance towers on

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Speaker 2: the US Mexico border, and we're going to take a

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Speaker 2: look at what these towers mean today for our country,

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Speaker 2: for the future of the people who are crossing, and

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Speaker 2: for the future of the people who live on the border.

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Speaker 2: So with me in the studio is Latino USA Produce

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Speaker 2: Serving Andolano's Junior.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Ray, Hey Maria.

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Speaker 2: So Ray, you have been busy over the last several months.

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Speaker 2: You've been researching surveillance technology, specifically technology that's being used

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Speaker 2: on the US Mexico border. So tell me what has

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Speaker 2: been your focus.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let me start off by saying that you

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Speaker 3: know both you and I have reported on the border

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Speaker 3: for years now, and I grew up in the Roal

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Speaker 3: Grande Valley of South Texas and I was an immigration

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Speaker 3: reported there for a while.

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Speaker 2: Right, And you did a lot of strong reporting along

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Speaker 2: the border. In fact, you were covering the last two

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Speaker 2: years of the Trump administration, specifically policies like the Remain

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Speaker 2: in Mexico program and the expulsions because of Title forty two.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I reported on those policies. And for this story,

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Speaker 3: I decided to look at border technology and how it's

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Speaker 3: impacting migration. And I specifically wanted to dig deep and

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Speaker 3: better understand the the border surveillance towers that are there

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Speaker 3: and these integrated fixed towers.

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Speaker 2: So that's a very high tech term, integrated fixed towers,

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Speaker 2: because you know, when I think of border technology, I

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Speaker 2: think of like drones, biometrics, you know, license plate readers,

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Speaker 2: ground sensors, cameras everywhere. But you're talking now about then

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Speaker 2: extra layer of surveillance, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, these types of

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Speaker 3: towers are just like one of several types of towers

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Speaker 3: and everything that you just mentioned, Maria, as you know,

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Speaker 3: is part of this bigger thing known as the virtual wall.

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Speaker 3: It's also labeled as the cyber wall, and the US

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Speaker 3: is pouring more and more money into this type of technology.

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Speaker 3: As of early November, Maria, it's estimated that there are

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Speaker 3: about five hundred surveillance towers across the entire US Mexico border.

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Speaker 2: Right and from where we are now, ray the politics

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Speaker 2: of today is actually at both Republicans and Democrats support

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Speaker 2: the expansion of this virtual wall, this cyber wall.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right, and that's one of the reasons why

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Speaker 3: I wanted to look at this issue. Now. You know, Madia,

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Speaker 3: we know that a physical wall is controversial across political aisles,

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Speaker 3: but both Democrats and Republicans seem to be in favor

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Speaker 3: of border technology. And Madia, I think it's also important

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Speaker 3: to say that, you know President Electrump's website. On it,

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Speaker 3: there's a link to the gopiece platform, and it says

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Speaker 3: that they are in favor of using quote advanced technology

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Speaker 3: to monitor and secure the border. But you know, activists

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Speaker 3: and researchers argue that a virtual law is just as

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Speaker 3: problematic and oftentimes as dangerous and deadly as a physical law.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's why it's important for us to

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Speaker 3: look at this. So throughout this story, we'll hear snapshots

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Speaker 3: from across southern Arizona, and we're focusing on this region

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Speaker 3: specific because that's where one of the first major concentrations

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Speaker 3: of surveillance towers on the US Mexico border happened.

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Speaker 2: You know, it turns out that this is a place

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Speaker 2: where I've reported from several times on other border issues.

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Speaker 2: It's also a place that Latino USA continues to go

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Speaker 2: back to in our reporting exactly, Maria. Okay, Ray, So

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Speaker 2: you're taking us to Tucson, Arizona. That's where you end

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Speaker 2: up meeting with a group of people who tried to

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Speaker 2: do something about these surveillance towers before they even went up.

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Speaker 2: So take us there, take us to the story. Thanks Ray.

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Speaker 3: The tuthon sun is shining down on me as I

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Speaker 3: walk towards a large, rusted colored gate. As I slid

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Speaker 3: it open, a little lizard scurries away into the cracks

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Speaker 3: on the wall, and there's a car waiting for me.

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Speaker 4: How you doing good?

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Speaker 5: I finally meet you.

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Speaker 3: That's Valentina Andrews. She goes by, Tina, I hop in

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Speaker 3: her car and we instantly connect over our cats.

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Speaker 5: So thunder Cat is a big, fluffy brown taba Cali.

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Speaker 5: She is just a short hair all black.

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Speaker 6: Cat oh Okay.

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Speaker 3: Tina was raised on the Thano Atam Nation, which is

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Speaker 3: about an hour and a half southwest of Tucson, where

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Speaker 3: she was born. The reservation is federally recognized and her

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Speaker 3: people are known for thriving in the harsh desert climate.

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Speaker 3: The reservation is about two point eight million acres, or

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Speaker 3: about the size of Connecticut. The nation is made up

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Speaker 3: of eleven districts and there's about thirty four thousand yearrolled members.

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Speaker 3: The Thano Autumn people were separated when the border was created.

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Speaker 3: This ended up splitting the nation, with thno Autumn people

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Speaker 3: now living on both sides. The nation has not wanted

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Speaker 3: a border walk for many reasons, but one of the

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Speaker 3: main ones is because they worried that a physical wall

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Speaker 3: could further cut their tithes with athano Aatam people in Mexico.

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Speaker 3: So we just entered the nation, and so.

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Speaker 5: We're going to take a drive down south close to

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Speaker 5: the border and check out one of those surveillance towers.

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Speaker 3: Tina and I are heading to a small town on

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Speaker 3: the nation named Cells. Our plan is to meet up

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Speaker 3: with Tina's friend Joshua Garcia. He's also a tribal member

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Speaker 3: who was raised on the reservation. He lives in the

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Speaker 3: Chickakook District, which sits on the border where some surveillance

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Speaker 3: towers were built. Last a year, okay, Tina and I

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Speaker 3: hop into his truck and head south to the Chickakook

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Speaker 3: District on the border to go see one of the

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Speaker 3: surveillance towers on their land. Both Tina and josh were

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Speaker 3: outspoken against the towers and they tried to raise awareness

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Speaker 3: about them. Tina had a podcast and Josh would go

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Speaker 3: around the community to talk about the surveillance towers. This

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Speaker 3: was their way of resisting the towers. But despite THEIRS

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Speaker 3: and many community members' criticisms, the towers were still built.

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Speaker 3: So right now we're pulling up to one of the

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Speaker 3: Albit towers and we're still on this dirt road. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of bumpy, it's very rocky, and to the

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Speaker 3: side of us they're saguaros, And yeah, now we're kind

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Speaker 3: of directly in front of this tower. In twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 3: US Customs and Border Protection approved the building of surveillance

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Speaker 3: towers across southern Arizona, including several on the thano Atam Nation.

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Speaker 3: The multi million dollar contract was awarded to Elbit Systems

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Speaker 3: of America. It's a US division of a company named

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Speaker 3: Albert Systems, which is one of Israel's largest military companies.

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Speaker 3: More than fifty integrated fixed towers from Albert would end

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Speaker 3: up being built. This is a commercial that Albert ran

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Speaker 3: on their YouTube page in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 4: From Combits to combat Vehicles, Elbit Systems technologies are operational

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Speaker 4: in dozens of countries. Our solutions enable domination of the battle,

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Speaker 4: to engage threats with power.

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Speaker 3: And precision, and they're also a global leader when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the surveillance industry. Albert has actually used similar

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Speaker 3: surveillance towers on their border with Palestine. This connection between Albert,

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Speaker 3: Israel and Palestine was a concern that many on the

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Speaker 3: nation stressed. Some on the thano Atam Nation felt that

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Speaker 3: having this same technology on their land felt like an occupation.

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Speaker 7: Shoots tipman, take a look, Yeah that's ti. I just

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Speaker 7: think somebody's watching this for sure.

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Speaker 5: Wow, these panels are huge.

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Speaker 3: The Elbeit tower is huge. It shoots more than one

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Speaker 3: hundred and twenty feet into the sky. And it's about

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Speaker 3: the size of a twelve story building. It looks like

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Speaker 3: a metal communications tower or a cell phone tower. If

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Speaker 3: you look closely, you can see a camera at the

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Speaker 3: very top of it. These towers have the ability to

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Speaker 3: see up to seven point five miles within its radius.

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Speaker 3: That's about the length of more than one hundred and

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Speaker 3: ten football fields. They can watch cars, people, animals, really

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Speaker 3: anything within its range, and these towers are sometimes within

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Speaker 3: close proximity of each other to make sure they capture

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Speaker 3: everything within its line of sight. It's like surround you know,

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Speaker 3: by a chain link fence with some barbed wires around

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Speaker 3: it as well. And directly in front of it is

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Speaker 3: a massive solar panel. It's about the size of two

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Speaker 3: trucks to help power these towers. These surveillance towers are

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Speaker 3: part of a broader network known as the Integrated Fixed

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Speaker 3: Tower System. It's basically a bunch of towers on the

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Speaker 3: border that monitor and talk to each other and let

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Speaker 3: border agents know when they detect movement in the area.

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Speaker 3: This network has been described by some experts as the

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Speaker 3: spinal cord of the virtual wall. Both Tina and Josh

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Speaker 3: stare at it. They have to tilt their heads back

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Speaker 3: to see all of it. Standing in front of this tower,

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Speaker 3: what goes on in your head just like looking at it.

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Speaker 7: Seeing it, just know that somebody's there watching us, and

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Speaker 7: at the same time, you know, hearing the birds out

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Speaker 7: there singing, and how it's just such a desecration to

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Speaker 7: the space. So to me, it just makes me really

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Speaker 7: sad to see the signs here on our own supposedly

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Speaker 7: sovereign land.

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Speaker 3: Tina and Josh tried their best to fight against these towers,

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Speaker 3: but ultimately they were constructed after leaders from the nation

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Speaker 3: approved the towers on their land. It was reported that

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Speaker 3: this happened in twenty nineteen. CBP secured enough money to

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Speaker 3: allow for ten surveillance towers to be built on their lands.

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Speaker 3: It was also reported at the time that tribal leadership

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Speaker 3: thought that by permitting these towers being built, it could

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Speaker 3: help eliminate the need for a physical law, but federal

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Speaker 3: officials have said that the need for the wall has

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Speaker 3: not been eliminated.

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Speaker 7: Even though the community is on your side, but really

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Speaker 7: it's those officials and our nation's governments that are the

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Speaker 7: ones that are making these decisions. That's something that's the

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Speaker 7: kind of hardest.

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Speaker 3: Thing but it doesn't stop there. Elbett has already been

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Speaker 3: awarded a contract to build more surveillance towers, possibly including

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Speaker 3: these same types of integrated fixed towers along the border

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Speaker 3: in the next few years.

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Speaker 5: Looking back on it today and seeing where we're at

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Speaker 5: and what it is and then actually standing next to one,

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Speaker 5: you know, what we just did today was very very

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Speaker 5: surreal and very like I'm just still like processing how

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Speaker 5: tod theay Win.

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Speaker 3: Tina says that when the towers were being built across

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Speaker 3: southern Arizona, there's been a steady presence of Border patrol

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Speaker 3: agents in their community through the years, and they work

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Speaker 3: hand in hand with the surveillance towers. The towers notify

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Speaker 3: agents when they detect movement, and that tells agents that

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Speaker 3: they need to monitor the area. So it's not just

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Speaker 3: the towers on the border that Tina has seen and

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Speaker 3: had to deal with. It's also border militarization. In twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: shortly after some towers were built, a group of Indigenous

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Speaker 3: led organizers gathered near a border patrol checkpoint in Pima County,

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Speaker 3: where part of the thano Otam nation is located. It

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Speaker 3: was on Indigenous People's Day and they were protesting proposed

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Speaker 3: border wall construction. Some people were tear guested and even

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Speaker 3: shot with rubber bullets by law enforcement officials that day.

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Speaker 3: And last year, Autumn Nation member Raymond Mattia was killed

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Speaker 3: in front of his home by Border patrol agents who

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Speaker 3: were responding to a call that shots had been fired

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Speaker 3: about a mile from the US Mexico border.

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Speaker 8: New information out of Pima County tonight after member of

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Speaker 8: the Telona Odam Nation was shot to death by Border patrol.

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Speaker 9: The autopsy shows that Raymond Mattia were shot at least

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Speaker 9: nine times.

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Speaker 3: Raymond was reaching into his jacket to take out a

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Speaker 3: cell phone, which law enforcement officials claimed they mistook for

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Speaker 3: a gun. Three border patrol agents fired dozens of rounds

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Speaker 3: at him. He was killed on the scene. Tina has

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Speaker 3: also had her own run ins with border militarization. One

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Speaker 3: moment really stands out to her. It was when border

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Speaker 3: agents pulled her and her family over after the attendant

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Speaker 3: and memorial service for her uncle.

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Speaker 5: Everybody in the car was like in a panic, and

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Speaker 5: I was like trying to calm the situation because they

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Speaker 5: had their guns drawn on us, and also I had

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Speaker 5: to show proof and let them know this is who

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Speaker 5: we are, this is where we're coming from.

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Speaker 3: Tina says she believes she was being racially profiled. She

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Speaker 3: feels like she's part of the last generation on the

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Speaker 3: nation to know what life was like before the intense

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Speaker 3: and daily militarization and surveillance that goes hand in hand

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Speaker 3: with the towers.

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Speaker 5: When I think of my nieces and nephews, who are

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Speaker 5: you know, babies and range from the ages of their

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Speaker 5: early twenties, they know that that's what they grew up seeing,

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Speaker 5: and that's normalized to them, but for us, still not

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Speaker 5: normals for us, and we I don't think we'll ever

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Speaker 5: accept that. It's sad to even think that this could

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Speaker 5: be potentially a permanent thing for us here.

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Speaker 3: Tina's fears about border patrol are informed by reality. In

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Speaker 3: the last five years, at least two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 3: two people were killed across the country during encounters with CBP.

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Speaker 3: On top of that, DHS reported that there was an

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Speaker 3: estimated four thousand border patrol agents nationwide in nineteen ninety two,

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Speaker 3: and about thirty years later, in twenty twenty, there were

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Speaker 3: almost twenty thousand agents. That's a growth of about five

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Speaker 3: times within three decades. Arizona itself also experience an explosion

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Speaker 3: of agents. In nineteen ninety two, there were only three

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Speaker 3: hundred border agents, and by twenty twenty there were more

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Speaker 3: than three thousand, six hundred. That's about twelve times more.

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Speaker 5: You want to give border patrol officers the benefit of

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Speaker 5: the doubt, but when majority of your experiences are not

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Speaker 5: good and are negative when it comes to dealing with

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Speaker 5: border issues, then of course, yeah, then that frustration starts

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Speaker 5: to build.

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Speaker 3: Tina says her people were sold the idea that these

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Speaker 3: towers would protect them, but in reality, she says, they

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Speaker 3: feel more surveilled and have ultimately experienced more violence on

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Speaker 3: the border. As Tina, Josh and I walk back to

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Speaker 3: the truck, I seen empty black water jug that migrants

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Speaker 3: use to stay hydrated on their journey into the US.

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Speaker 3: I also see other things like clothes, backpacks, and shoes

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Speaker 3: lying in the dry desert landscape. You know, we're really

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Speaker 3: close to your community, you know. As we drive, just

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Speaker 3: I keep seeing those jugs the migrants carrying. What goes

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Speaker 3: on for just you personally when you see stuff like that.

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Speaker 7: Well, I just kind of always wonder where did they

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Speaker 7: come from? What kind of circumstances led them to take

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Speaker 7: this huge risk.

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Speaker 3: This region has been a corridor for migration through the years,

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Speaker 3: and it's been extremely deadly. For me, it's.

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Speaker 7: Almost like a very surreal feeling because well, like it's

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Speaker 7: all them people. There's a lot that goes with death,

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Speaker 7: and so I always think, like, where are these people's

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Speaker 7: spirits at. I hope they're found some kind of peace.

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Speaker 3: This is something that people living on the border think

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Speaker 3: about a lot. How many people have actually died in

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Speaker 3: this region. Several humanitarian nonprofits say that it's a number

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Speaker 3: that is under reported by the federal government. But one

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Speaker 3: thing that we do know is that these surveillance towers

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Speaker 3: don't just keep their eyes on the borderlands. They're actually

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Speaker 3: contributing to something much darker.

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Speaker 2: When we come back, dear listener, let you know, USA

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Speaker 2: producer Renaldo Lanos Junior travels to another part of southern Arizona.

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Speaker 2: He's going to help explain the funneling effect that these

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Speaker 2: towers create by redirecting migrants to some of the most

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Speaker 2: remote and deadly parts of the border. We're also going

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Speaker 2: to hear about how some aid workers there are working

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Speaker 2: to help prevent people from dying in the desert. Stay

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Speaker 2: with us, Mayes, Hey, we're back. When we left off,

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Speaker 2: we heard from Latino USA producer Renaldo Les Junior about

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Speaker 2: how the Dano attum nation along southern Arizona was dealing

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Speaker 2: with surveillance towers on the border. Renaldo is back in

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Speaker 2: the studio with me. So, Ray, you're reporting about the

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Speaker 2: concerns that the indigenous people had about these towers, but

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Speaker 2: you also found out that there's a correlation between these

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Speaker 2: surveillance towers and deaths in the desert.

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Speaker 3: What is that. That's exactly right, Maria, and it's actually

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Speaker 3: building off some of the reporting that you and other

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Speaker 3: Latino USA colleague have done throughout the years, and most

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Speaker 3: recently it was a story in twenty twenty two by

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Speaker 3: Futuro Investigates. Well, you talked about the prevention through deterrence policy.

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Speaker 3: Here's a clip of you from that piece.

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Speaker 2: President Bill Clinton faced bipartisan pressure to quote do something

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Speaker 2: about the border. He supported this policy of prevention through deterrence.

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Speaker 2: This funneled people to the most geographically dangerous areas. So, Ray,

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Speaker 2: what you're basically saying is that the towers, these surveillance

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Speaker 2: towers are the newest addition in terms of technology to

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Speaker 2: what has been going on since nineteen ninety four with

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Speaker 2: this whole philosophy of prevention through deterrence, right, It's a

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Speaker 2: policy designed to deter people from crossing the US Mexico

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Speaker 2: border by not only strengthening border patrol presence, but also

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Speaker 2: by setting up things like roadblocks and making it just

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Speaker 2: much more are difficult to cross.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and now migrants are trying to stay out of

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Speaker 3: the line of sight of these towers in fear of apprehension,

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Speaker 3: you know, and for that reason they get funnel to

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Speaker 3: remote parts of the desert. And to find out more

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Speaker 3: about how these towers are arguably contributing to the deaths

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Speaker 3: of those crossing, I met up with some activists in

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Speaker 3: the Sonoran Desert who are witnessing this firsthand and who

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Speaker 3: are trying to prevent these deaths from happening in the

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Speaker 3: first place.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Ray, you're going to take on the story from here,

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Speaker 2: thank you.

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Speaker 3: I recently met up with a group of volunteers. They're

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Speaker 3: known as the Tucson Samaritans, and if their name sounds familiar,

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Speaker 3: it's because we've had them on our show earlier this

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Speaker 3: year for a story about the border wall, its impacts

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Speaker 3: on a nearby town, and what daily life is like

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Speaker 3: by the southern Wall in Arizona. I'm with them today

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Speaker 3: because one of the things they do is that they

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Speaker 3: leave food and jugs of water for migrants who might

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Speaker 3: be passing through. It's kind of similar to the one

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Speaker 3: I saw with Josh and Tina on the thano Atam nation.

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Speaker 3: The Samaritans travel to remote parts of the desert in

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Speaker 3: hopes that this small gesture might help prevent dehydration, starvation,

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Speaker 3: and even death.

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Speaker 10: Hi.

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Speaker 11: Good morning.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Yes, I'm right.

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Speaker 1: I'm nice to meet you.

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Speaker 12: Michael him Michael, worry me you no pearly yet. It's

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Speaker 12: seven o'clock.

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Speaker 3: Brian and Michael are both volunteers with the Samaritans. Brian's

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Speaker 3: been with them for several years now.

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Speaker 12: I think we're not loading back here.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's seven in the morning, and it's kind of

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Speaker 3: cool out right now, but I know that this is

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Speaker 3: a place where temperatures can reach one hundred and eighteen

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Speaker 3: degrees fahrenheit. Brian says that today they'll hit several water drops,

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Speaker 3: and these spots are places he hasn't been to in

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Speaker 3: a while. Hi, Michael, that's she's with the Colivity Center

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Speaker 3: here in Tucson. The organization helps identify the bodies of

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Speaker 3: migrants who have died in the region. It's also her

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Speaker 3: first time being out with the Samaritans, but she's very

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Speaker 3: familiar with their work. The four of us cram into

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Speaker 3: a small suv and we head southwest for about an

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Speaker 3: hour and a half. The view goes from a thriving,

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Speaker 3: bustling city to a vast, dry desert landscape. After about

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Speaker 3: forty five minutes, I lose cell phone service. On our way.

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Speaker 3: We also drive by a surveillance tower standing in the

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Speaker 3: middle of nowhere. It was a reminder that there's eyes

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Speaker 3: here keeping watch. We finally get to our first destination.

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Speaker 3: They'll be dropping off water and food for migrants. We

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Speaker 3: all go to the back of the truck to gather

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Speaker 3: the essentials.

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Speaker 12: Food is probably the most important, because we've been fighting here,

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Speaker 12: is that the food is gone.

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Speaker 3: Every time.

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Speaker 12: There's a bucket down there that we can seal.

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Speaker 3: A five gallon buckett bet Loove, Brian and Michael take

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Speaker 3: granola bars, vienna, sausages, and other snacks to leave out

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Speaker 3: for the migrants. They also grab several one gallon jugs

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Speaker 3: of water.

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Speaker 12: All right, here we go.

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Speaker 3: We hike for about half an hour. These water drops

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Speaker 3: across the border have been reported on a lot, but

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Speaker 3: it also shows that the work is never over, and

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Speaker 3: as the planet gets warmer, they say it's more important

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Speaker 3: than ever. When we finally get to our destination, we

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Speaker 3: see that there's already food and water there.

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Speaker 12: Every trip the last six months out here it's been empty,

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Speaker 12: so we have to be out here regularly everywhere to

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Speaker 12: see where we see signs of recent passage. We often

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Speaker 12: try to put drops in an area like this, where

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Speaker 12: it's in a canyon, there's only one place to walk,

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Speaker 12: so if anybody's passing through here, unless they're on top

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Speaker 12: of the ridges, they're going to find the supplies that we've.

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Speaker 3: Left still, Brian leaves extra food and water just in case,

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Speaker 3: because nearby we see signs that there's been movement here. Backpacks,

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Speaker 3: clothes and other items are scattered on the ground.

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Speaker 12: Cartels often have guides who can lead people north, although

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Speaker 12: my understanding is that more and more it's being done

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Speaker 12: remotely with cell phones and downloadable maps, so there could

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Speaker 12: be groups out here who do not have a guide

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Speaker 12: with them but simply get instructed in the morning. Here's

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Speaker 12: where you need to get to by nighttime. Good luck.

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Speaker 3: This work of dropping off supplies for migrants and hopes

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Speaker 3: that they find it in these remote areas feels like

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Speaker 3: looking for a needle in a haystack.

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Speaker 12: And we have so far traced about fifteen hundred miles

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Speaker 12: of paths that migrants walk on in a triangular area

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Speaker 12: south of Tucson. That makes up about a thousand square miles,

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Speaker 12: so fifty.

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Speaker 3: After a while, we rest for a bit. Then Brian,

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Speaker 3: Bedla and Mike pack up their stuff and we hike

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Speaker 3: back to their car. We're going to another water drop,

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Speaker 3: this time it's close to the border wall. Brian says,

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Speaker 3: Migrant roots are always shifting, but the roots seem to

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Speaker 3: be in very remote parts of the border, and that's intentional.

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Speaker 3: Many people are trying to stay out of the line

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Speaker 3: of sight of surveillance towers. Its groups like the Samaritans

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Speaker 3: who are trying to save people. Research conducted by academics

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Speaker 3: from the University of Arizona revealed that the surveillance towers

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Speaker 3: here are directly linked to some of the deaths on

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Speaker 3: this part of the border, and that's because of this

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Speaker 3: funneling effect that the Samaritans and others have seen in

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Speaker 3: the most remote parts of the desert. The researchers collected

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Speaker 3: data like where migrants were crossing and where migrant bodies

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Speaker 3: were being found before and after the towers came, and

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Speaker 3: they concluded that migrants were dying further away from the

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Speaker 3: towers since they were built in the hostile environment. I

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Speaker 3: wanted to meet with one of the researchers, so I

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Speaker 3: went to the University of Arizona and Tucson. I'm meeting

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Speaker 3: with Jeff Boyce, who has spent a lot of time researching, studying,

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Speaker 3: and publishing about this correlation between migrant deaths and surveillance

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Speaker 3: towers in this Snorign desert. He's currently an assistant professor

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Speaker 3: in the School of Geography in Dublin. This place means

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Speaker 3: a lot to Jeff. It's where he spent a lot

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Speaker 3: of sleepless nights working on his PhD.

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Speaker 1: And it's really where I went on my intellectual journey

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Speaker 1: becoming a researcher focused on the border, focused on border policing, technology, enforcement, infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: and its impacts on human rights.

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Speaker 3: Jeff tells me that before the Elba Towers came to

438
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: the area. Yeah, there was the two thousand and five

439
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 3: Secure Border Initiative Network or sbi NET for short. As

440
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 3: part of this initiative, billions of dollars were given to

441
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 3: private companies like Boeing to build surveillance towers and other

442
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 3: technologies across the border, including in Arizona.

443
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: You know, residents, I think, rightfully, you know, raised a

444
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: lot of concern about privacy, right and there was this

445
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: feeling that in fact, it wasn't so much like the

446
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: desert or the border that was under surveillance.

447
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 9: It was them.

448
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: But sbi net ultimately failed. There were several technical issues

449
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 3: and missed deadlines, and the technology itself wasn't living up

450
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: to the promises of surveilling the border. The Obama administration

451
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 3: canceled the program in twenty eleven. Then a few years later,

452
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: Albert stepped up to the plate to build towers. This

453
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: time the tech was better and ever evolving. Flash forward

454
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: to today, Albitt and other companies are eating even more towers.

455
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 3: Some of these towers now use artificial intelligence to better detect, track,

456
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 3: and classify objects of interest. Experts like Jeff say that

457
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: these towers are like high tech scarecrows out in the desert.

458
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: They're mounted at around one hundred feet tall because the

459
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: whole purpose of the towers is get up and above

460
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: the landscape, so you can see a wide area. That

461
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: makes them really visible, and if you're out in the

462
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: desert during the daytime or at night, it's really clear

463
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: where they are in the landscape.

464
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: Migrants basically avoid being in the line of sight of

465
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 3: these towers, but the towers can see in the dark

466
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 3: because they have night vision cameras and sonar capabilities. When

467
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 3: a tower detects movement, it lets border officials know that

468
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: someone or something is within the range of the tower,

469
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: so the agency says they'll send personnel to check it out.

470
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: That's what that means. Is like people are crossing in

471
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: mountainous areas with more or rugged terrain that blocks the

472
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: towers from various angles and increases the likelihood they'll get

473
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: lost and injured and prolongs their exposure to extreme temperature.

474
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: The smugglers who are helping guide them through the desert

475
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: select routes of travel that are outside of the visible

476
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: range of the towers.

477
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: The surveillance towers create a funnel effect that drives people

478
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 3: to some of the most dangerous parts of the region,

479
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 3: likely resulting in their death.

480
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: All of that is really in keeping with the kind

481
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: of plan that the Border Patrol first laid out in

482
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four.

483
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: This shows how prevention through deterrence has evolved through the years,

484
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: first with Border Patrol agents, then checkpoints, a wall, and

485
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: now surveillance infrastructure like these towers. Organizations in southern Arizona,

486
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: like the Samaritans, are familiar with Jeff's work. That's why

487
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: these volunteers are trying to prevent these deaths from happening

488
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: in the first place. Back with Brian, Perla and Michael,

489
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: we're driving up these huge hills by the border wall.

490
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 12: All right, we made it alive.

491
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: We make it over the hill and in the distance

492
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: we see something. It's a group of four migrants. They're

493
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 3: huddled underneath a blue tarp that they've attached to the

494
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: border wall. They're trying to get some shade. We walked

495
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: towards them and Brian offers them some food and water.

496
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: The group says they're from across Africa. They tell us

497
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: all of the countries that they've been through to get here.

498
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 5: Africa.

499
00:31:50,760 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 9: Peruado Colombia, Costa Rica, Mexico and here. Yeah.

500
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: They say there were more people here earlier, but border

501
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 3: patrol picked them up and took them away in vans

502
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: to get processed. But there wasn't enough room for them,

503
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: so the agent said they'll come back later. But it's

504
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 3: been several hours.

505
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 13: Now where are you heading?

506
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 12: Do you have a destination in the United States? Family, Yeah,

507
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 12: there's New York.

508
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 8: New York.

509
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 6: All right.

510
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 12: It's a long, long journey still, but you're here. You've

511
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 12: gone a long ways and you've made it to the

512
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 12: United States, so welcome.

513
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 8: Like yeah.

514
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: Brian, Perla and Michael go to the car and get

515
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: water and food for them. Then we head out, and

516
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: not too far away, there's another group of migrants near

517
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: the wall. Four women sit under the shadow of the

518
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 3: border wall. They're from across Latin America and they looked tired.

519
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: One of the women here looks like she's in distress.

520
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 3: She's crying. So I don't pull out my audio equipment

521
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: and I just worked on my phone. They say they've

522
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: been traveling for days. Brian, Mike w and Beerla give

523
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 3: this group some supplies. Today has been pretty impactful for Beerla,

524
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 3: especially with the group that we just met.

525
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 6: To be a woman and to be in a situation

526
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 6: so desperate, and to see them so young and where

527
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 6: they will just seemingly trust anyone that comes in their

528
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 6: path because they need assistance.

529
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: Bedla reflects on the intense reactions from the women we

530
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: just came across.

531
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 6: We saw how the women started tearing up when she

532
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 6: said and he never came back. That is a tale,

533
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 6: That is a lie that is told in this desert,

534
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 6: in and out right. But that is a very stressing

535
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 6: to hear, just the psyche. Yeah, just like you have

536
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 6: to be left behind, and then the trust that you

537
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 6: have to put in someone that you have to keep

538
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 6: yourself alive in one position until they come back and

539
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 6: get you is so nerve wrecking.

540
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 3: As we're wrapping up our day, I see something and

541
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 3: see the helicopter straight in the distance.

542
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 12: Where do you see it?

543
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 5: Straight ahead?

544
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 3: The helicopter's flying between some mountains, and it looks like

545
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 3: it's headed straight towards us.

546
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 12: They're going to come close enough to identify us.

547
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: Really, Oh yeah, I look at this.

548
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 3: The helicopter gets pretty close. I can feel some of

549
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: the gusts of wind from its propeller.

550
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 12: We might have tipped the ground sensor.

551
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I might have tipped a sensor walking that's round

552
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 3: of sensors. From here, we can see the pilot of

553
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: the helicopter and they're clearly trying to identify us. The

554
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 3: sound is so loud, and then just like that, it

555
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 3: flies away.

556
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 12: I'd never seen that before. That looked like, what the

557
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 12: fuck was that they were taking our photos close up

558
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 12: and they maybe of doing faithful recognition stuff.

559
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 3: The idea that we may have tripped a ground sensor

560
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 3: sending a signal that there was movement in this region,

561
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 3: causing the helicopter to go and check it out, it's

562
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 3: mind boggling. Of course, there's no way of confirming if

563
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 3: this was the case here, but it's definitely possible because

564
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 3: the border is always watching and the technology in the

565
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 3: borderlands is always talking to each other. Surveillance towers tell

566
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 3: border agents is detected someone, or a ground sensor rings

567
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 3: an invisible alarm. But surveillance towers and ground sensors are

568
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: just a tip of the iceberg when it comes to

569
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: the virtual law. The Department of Homeland Security has an

570
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: even wider arsenal of other border tech, and they're seeking

571
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: to expand it in the near future.

572
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: Dear listener, When we come back, we look at the

573
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 2: industry of border surveillance and where all of this tech

574
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: is headed. We're also going to learn about who is

575
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: profiting and what all of this could mean for the

576
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: border if more surveillance towers and infrastructure come to the region.

577
00:36:37,239 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 2: So stay with us. Yes, hey, we're back. When we

578
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: left off, we learned about how the surveillance towers in

579
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: southern Arizona are acting like deadly funnels for migrants who

580
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: are crossing through that region. We heard from advocates trying

581
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 2: to prevent these deaths from even happening. Latino USA producer

582
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 2: Fernando Lanos Junior is back with me in the studio

583
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: to talk about the industry behind border surveillance and what

584
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: the border could look like if more of this technology

585
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 2: actually comes to the region.

586
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 3: Hey, Ray, Hey Maria.

587
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: So you've walked us through a lot of what has

588
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: happened along the border already. But of course I'm also

589
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: wondering from the business side of things, what companies are

590
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: going to be building these new.

591
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 3: Towers right now. Several companies like Elbett have already been

592
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: awarded millions of dollars to build more surveillance towers across

593
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: the border, and some of those those towers could be

594
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 3: autonomous towers that use artificial intelligence to better detect people,

595
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: and some of them already exist in parts of the border,

596
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: and this tech opens up an entire kind of worms

597
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 3: because it appears that more and more AI will be

598
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 3: used in the future of border technology as well. The

599
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 3: border patrol has made it pretty clear, and one can

600
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 3: only imagine that if this technology continues to be used

601
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: on the border, there could even be more deaths.

602
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: But your reporting is also letting us know that there

603
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: are some people who are trying to never forget those

604
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: who have actually died. So Ray, you're going to pick

605
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 2: up the story and take it from here.

606
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 14: Where we're standing right now is right below an integrative

607
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 14: fixed tower, which is probably about a quarter mile up

608
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 14: the hill.

609
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 3: I'm with journalist and author Todd Miller. We're at the

610
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 3: base of a large hill a few miles outside of Nogales, Arizona.

611
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: From here, we can see a looming integrated fixed tower

612
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 3: staring down at us.

613
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 14: Also, we're about to hike up this hill to get

614
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 14: to this integrated fixed tower.

615
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: Todd wrote a book named Empire of Borders the expansion

616
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 3: of the US border around the world. He's one of

617
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 3: the main experts when it comes to surveillance technology.

618
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 11: My first thought as a journalist was, Oh.

619
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: I feel I need to be looking way more into this.

620
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 11: And I did. Actually, I did a number of trips.

621
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 14: I went to Israel and Palestine twice looking into the

622
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 14: sort of tech companies and why you know, academics in

623
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 14: Israel call Israel the homeland security capital of the world,

624
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 14: and why it's the.

625
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 11: Place, per capita is that.

626
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 14: Is selling more of this type of border infrastructure around

627
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 14: the world.

628
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 3: Well, it looks like we made it.

629
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 11: We are now right below a surveillance tower.

630
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: Todd says. This tower that we're looking at is one

631
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 3: of the first Albert towers to be built here in

632
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: southern Arizona back in twenty fifteen as part of a

633
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 3: broader contract given to Albert the year before to build

634
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 3: more than fifty surveillance towers across the Arizona Mexico border.

635
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: Todd has not only researched these previous towers that were built,

636
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 3: but he's also aware of the direction of where this

637
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 3: technology is going in the near future.

638
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 14: And it just seems like the trends are the budgets

639
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 14: don't go down, they go up. The innovation doesn't go down,

640
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 14: it goes up. The private industry involved in it, they

641
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 14: want to make money, so they're constantly innovating new products,

642
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 14: so there's a motivation there.

643
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 3: Earlier this year, he saw the surveillance industry at play

644
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 3: when he attended the seventeenth annual Border Security Expo more

645
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 3: than three hundred miles away from Tucson in Elbaso, Texas.

646
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 3: It's a convention where private companies like Albert listen to

647
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 3: the needs of agencies like the Department of Homeland Security

648
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 3: and pitched their tech and their ideas to them.

649
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 14: The organizers say there are nearly two hundred private companies

650
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 14: at this expo, and they also say it's the largest

651
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 14: event in terms of participation ever.

652
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 3: But this year's expo was a little different.

653
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 14: I find it really disturbing, you know, as a journalist,

654
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 14: that they didn't allow journalists to register, and this is

655
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 14: the first time in seventeen years, you know, that they've

656
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 14: done this.

657
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: I was one of those journalists not allowed in. When

658
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 3: I wrote to the Border Security Expo marketing team, I

659
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: was told, quote our advisory board has decided to no

660
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 3: longer allow press to attend end quote, but Todd still

661
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 3: managed to get in because he's also a researcher and

662
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 3: an academic.

663
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 14: Journalists have always been able to calm and report on

664
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 14: this super important annual convention where the nuts and bolts

665
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 14: of what the border is, where it's going, the idea

666
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 14: that there's private industry involved in a profit motive, that

667
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 14: those sorts of things should be public knowledge.

668
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 3: Todd said at the expo there was a growing talk

669
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 3: of using more AI technology on the border. This is

670
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 3: important because this type of tech is already being used

671
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: on some surveillance towers, as I mentioned earlier.

672
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 14: So we weren't even thinking about them five years ago,

673
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 14: and all of a sudden, autonomous towers.

674
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 3: And they're talking about how they can implement AI more

675
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 3: into their workflows.

676
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 14: So the border of Reladians don't have to do like

677
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 14: certain bureaucratic work because some sort of AI program can

678
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 14: do that. Thus the Border of Atlasian can focus more

679
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 14: on enforcement or arresting people.

680
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: But this also raises concerns if AI creeps into other

681
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 3: border enforcement tools. Todd paints a pretty orwellian picture of

682
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 3: what he thinks the future of the border could look like.

683
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 14: There's a request for proposals for drones. A drone that

684
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 14: I saw a couple of years ago. I had Department

685
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 14: of Homeland Security that wanted a drone that could fly

686
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 14: into an area without being heard and then come down

687
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 14: and take people's pictures and have a facial recognition biometric

688
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 14: technology installed in it. So Zaur, We're headed like these

689
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 14: autonomous drones flying everywhere over people's heads, with robotic dogs

690
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 14: like running around in patrols making arrest.

691
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: If something like this were to happen and more AI

692
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: is used, it could also raise new ethical and even

693
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 3: legal questions.

694
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 14: What happens when the first robots shoots somebody and kills them.

695
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 14: Could you imagine like a drone from a ten thousand

696
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 14: feet up or five thousand feet shooting rubber bullets down

697
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 14: down at people, or concussion grenades or whatever.

698
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 3: Todd says. These questions are important to ask because technology

699
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 3: evolves so quickly, and some of the things that we

700
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: see today, like the AI towers, were not really fathomable

701
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 3: a few years ago. So it's all within the realm

702
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 3: of possibility, especially if more heartline immigration hawks are elected

703
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: into awe branches of government. A lot of this might

704
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 3: sound like something out of a science fiction movie, but

705
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 3: it's really not. We've recently seen how some countries like

706
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: Israel can weaponize these technologies.

707
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 15: At least nine people are dead and three thousand people

708
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 15: have been injured across Lebanon after electronic paging devices used

709
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 15: by the armed group Hezbolah exploded simultaneously this afternoon.

710
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 10: A group of journalists have filed a lawsuit in a

711
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 10: US court against the NSO Group. That's the Israeli company

712
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 10: that operates Pegasus spyware, which has been used to monitor

713
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 10: and track journalist, human rights activists, and dissidence across the globe.

714
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 3: Todd also makes it a point to say he's heard

715
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 3: counter narrative from some higher ups at the expo about AI.

716
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 14: Not that they're against AI, because there's everyone's talking about AI,

717
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 14: but that making sure that the human personnel actually makes

718
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 14: the final decisions about anything.

719
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: Here's audio that I obtained from a panel at the

720
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 3: Border Security Expo where panelists discuss what changes they foresee

721
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 3: when it comes to technology and securing the border.

722
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 10: What's old is new and it's people first always. The

723
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 10: technology supplements the infrastructure.

724
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 3: That's David B. Miller with the Border Patrol. People like

725
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 3: David think technology will make agents even better at their jobs,

726
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 3: and with more technology comes bigger budgets. At the same discussion,

727
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 3: the panelists talked about emerging threats and how foreign entities

728
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: are ramping up their technology and AI and how it's

729
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: important that the US keeps up.

730
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 13: The last love of defense. This great nation has this,

731
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 13: the US Bordatrol. Without them, that breaks down. We're doing

732
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 13: and each and every one of you, with your technologians

733
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 13: and your abilities to focus on helping spray order.

734
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: And the message was clear. This was a bit of

735
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 3: private companies in the audience to help US Border Patrol

736
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 3: to provide the most up to date technology, and it

737
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 3: was called in the federal government to also provide the

738
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: money and resources to build even more surveillance technology. And

739
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 3: more surveillance technology being deployed across the US Mexico border

740
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 3: could make crossings and just living there even more dangerous.

741
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 3: A group of about eight people are gathered in an

742
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 3: empty parking lot in Tucson. They're waiting for Alvaro and

743
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 3: c So. He's a local artist and activist. After a

744
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 3: few minutes Alvado finally gets here.

745
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 8: We are going to the US Mexico border to put

746
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 8: a marker for someone who was founded a few months ago.

747
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 3: Alvardo says that he's been doing this work for more

748
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 3: than a decade now. It's part of a project known

749
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 3: as Don Mueren losuenos, or where Dreams Die. He remembers

750
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 3: those who have died in the desert by placing crosses

751
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 3: in the spots where they were found. The brightly colored

752
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 3: markers stand out in the desolate landscape.

753
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 8: Those people had names, and they had families, and they

754
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 8: have plans and dreams and feelings like all of us.

755
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 8: They are looking for something that we all want, which

756
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 8: is to find a place to call home and to

757
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 8: be happy and have a way to support our families.

758
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 8: And there's nothing illegal about that.

759
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 3: This project means a lot to Alvaro because he's an

760
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 3: immigrant from Colombia. He moved to the US in the

761
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 3: sixties for college. He says that each cross he plants

762
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 3: into the earth has a deep connection to him and

763
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 3: his story. After Alvedo and the others filter into two cars,

764
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 3: it's time to drive about an hour southeast of Tucson,

765
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 3: towards the Patagonian mountains on the border. We arrive at

766
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 3: our destination and scope out the area.

767
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: So we're going to go up this little canyon right here.

768
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 13: Back up that way.

769
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: There are so many bright wildflowers beginning to bloom all

770
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 3: around the group. And I walk towards a dried up

771
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: riverbed with Alvedo leading with a GPS device in his hand.

772
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 8: Someone died here last month. There was a lot of

773
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 8: rain in March, and this person either try to cross

774
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 8: over something and he drowned.

775
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 3: Alvedo and the volunteers have a bucket with them. They

776
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 3: dig a hole into the ground, carefully, place the cross

777
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 3: into the hole and fill it with cement.

778
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 8: He was twenty one years of age when he was found.

779
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 8: He was fully fleshed. He had been here today. You

780
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 8: should not be dying on.

781
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 3: That young Alvardo says he got this information from the

782
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 3: Pima County Medical Examiner's office in Tucson. He has worked

783
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 3: with them closely for years. The man who drowned is

784
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 3: one of more than one hundred migrants who have died

785
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 3: in Arizona this year.

786
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 8: Did you bring the Holy water with you? You're already,

787
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 8: because what is it's life here in the desert.

788
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 3: He places a rosary around the aqua colored cross and

789
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 3: offers a moment of silence to honor the young man's life.

790
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 3: As Alavado helps pack up, I think about all the

791
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 3: times he's had to do this. He says, he stopped

792
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: keeping track because it can be a lot. He goes

793
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 3: out to the desert at least once every week to

794
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 3: do this work. Alavado emphasizes to me that it's no

795
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 3: coincidence that his death took place out here in the

796
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 3: middle of nowhere.

797
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 8: The astrology of the border patrol was to make the

798
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 8: trip as difficult as possible. Prevention through the terrence is

799
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 8: to send people through the most difficult parts of the

800
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 8: desert where there's no water, there's no help. All of

801
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 8: the things that go along with that policy towers, higher walls, drones, sensors, more,

802
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 8: border patrol ages have not impeded in any way people crossing.

803
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 3: Alvado isn't wrong. In Pima County, the Medical Examiner's Office

804
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 3: has found at least four thousand remains since the year

805
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: two thousand. People have died from things like hypothermia, heat exhaustion,

806
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 3: and dehydration from crossing in the most remote parts of

807
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 3: the desert.

808
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 8: So this country has spent billions of dollars importing technology

809
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 8: from other countries. Who are who do this kind of

810
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 8: creating walls and keeping people separated, and we're doing the

811
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 8: same things here.

812
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 3: Alvado sticks a third cross of the day into the ground.

813
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 3: This one is bright orange. A thirty year old man

814
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 3: died here late last year.

815
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 8: So this is a symbol for one person who came

816
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 8: looking for that, but he didn't make it. So is

817
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 8: a moment for you to suppose for a moment I

818
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 8: say to yourself, WHOA someone died here? How unfortunate. And

819
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:38,479
Speaker 8: that's what I'm hoping for, that that this crocess will

820
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 8: elevate a little bit of attention that and a little

821
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 8: bit of empathy.

822
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 3: More surveillance towers will be built soon. And with Trump's

823
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 3: new pick of Tom Homan, a former Immigration and Customs

824
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 3: Enforcement director, as his orders are and Stephen Miller as

825
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 3: his deputy Chief of Stafford Policy and Homeland Security, and

826
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,959
Speaker 3: not to mention the Governor of South Dakota, Christinome as

827
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 3: Trump's pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security, we

828
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,439
Speaker 3: will have to wait and see how immigration will play

829
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 3: out along the border. Money has already been awarded, and

830
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 3: there are millions of dollars sitting on a bipartisan border

831
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 3: security bill that is waiting to be passed and signed,

832
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 3: and academics like Jeff who we heard from earlier, argue

833
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 3: that the research he's collected in southern Arizona can be

834
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 3: applicable to other parts of the border where the surveillance

835
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 3: towers will go up.

836
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: We also see now this aggressive expansion of this surveillance

837
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: infrastructure into Texas, into California, and I think it's very

838
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: likely having the same effect of contributing to these patterns

839
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: of mortality by causing people to walk longer distances to

840
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: try to get around these surveillance towers and their view.

841
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 3: Shed a lot of hopes that one day, in the

842
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 3: very near future, there can be a solution, because he

843
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 3: says the current policies and technologies in place are not working.

844
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 8: Whether it comes from the Republic, comes down from the Democrats,

845
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 8: they'll ever get together and come up with a policy

846
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 8: that they agree with. Some of these debts may stop altogether,

847
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 8: and I'm hoping that I'll be around to see that.

848
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 3: Until then, the border will continue to watch those who

849
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 3: cross it or are simply around it, and those eyes

850
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 3: are projected to not only get sharper, but also a

851
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:47,760
Speaker 3: lot bigger.

852
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,919
Speaker 2: Today's episode was produced by Renaldo Leanos Junior with editing

853
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 2: by Mitra Bonshahi. It was mixed by Julia Caruso with

854
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: engineering support from JJ Carubin, and it was fact checked

855
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 2: by Rosa na Guire. The Latino USA team also includes

856
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 2: Jessica Ellis, Victoria Estrada, Stephanie Lebo, Andrea Lopez, Gruzsado, Luis Luna,

857
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: Glorimar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Neur Saudi and Nancy Trujillo. Benile

858
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 2: Ramirez is our co executive producer along with myself and

859
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: I'm your host Mariaino Rossa. Join us again on our

860
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 2: next episode. In the meantime, look for us on social media.

861
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: I'll see you on INSTAGRAMA Chao not Devayes.

862
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 6: Latino USA is made possible in part by the William

863
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 6: and Flora Hewlett Foundation for more than fifty years advancing

864
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 6: ideas and supporting institutions to promote a better world at

865
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 6: Hewlett dot org, the Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity

866
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 6: and possibilities more at Hsfoundation dot org and Skyline Foundation