1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:26,556 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When we think about spring cleaning, we usually focus 2 00:00:26,676 --> 00:00:29,876 Speaker 1: on stuff, what to toss, what to organize, what to 3 00:00:29,916 --> 00:00:32,276 Speaker 1: tidy up. But what if we zoomed out for a 4 00:00:32,316 --> 00:00:36,396 Speaker 1: second and thought about the nature of space itself, how 5 00:00:36,436 --> 00:00:38,556 Speaker 1: we're using it, and how it might be shaping our 6 00:00:38,556 --> 00:00:41,116 Speaker 1: well being in ways that we don't even notice. 7 00:00:41,516 --> 00:00:44,916 Speaker 2: There's a whole realm of opportunities kind of in this 8 00:00:45,076 --> 00:00:47,836 Speaker 2: relationship between our inner and outer worlds, and I think 9 00:00:47,876 --> 00:00:50,796 Speaker 2: we don't recognize that our outer world shape our inner 10 00:00:50,836 --> 00:00:55,796 Speaker 2: world in how people feel and think and behave and 11 00:00:55,836 --> 00:00:57,676 Speaker 2: how spaces relate to that. 12 00:00:57,716 --> 00:01:01,956 Speaker 1: This is University of Virginia Professor Lighti Klotz. Lighti is 13 00:01:01,956 --> 00:01:04,956 Speaker 1: the author of a new book entitled In a Good Place, 14 00:01:05,276 --> 00:01:07,796 Speaker 1: How the spaces where we live, work and play can 15 00:01:07,796 --> 00:01:08,556 Speaker 1: help us thrive. 16 00:01:09,716 --> 00:01:14,796 Speaker 2: Scholarship bridges between engineering and architecture and psychology and behavioral science. 17 00:01:15,036 --> 00:01:16,716 Speaker 2: Even if you're just talking about, oh, should I add 18 00:01:16,716 --> 00:01:19,636 Speaker 2: a new light to my office? That's going to change 19 00:01:19,716 --> 00:01:22,516 Speaker 2: all sorts of dynamics in unpredictable ways. 20 00:01:22,676 --> 00:01:24,996 Speaker 1: Before we go further, because we're talking about space, I'm 21 00:01:25,036 --> 00:01:26,996 Speaker 1: curious about the space you're in right now. If you 22 00:01:27,036 --> 00:01:29,196 Speaker 1: put on your sort of space psychologists, hat, what would 23 00:01:29,236 --> 00:01:31,956 Speaker 1: you notice about that room? How's it affecting your mind? 24 00:01:32,156 --> 00:01:34,916 Speaker 2: My space right now is very minimalistic so that I 25 00:01:34,916 --> 00:01:38,156 Speaker 2: can focus on the conversation with you and your listeners. 26 00:01:38,276 --> 00:01:39,956 Speaker 2: But your space, on the other hand. 27 00:01:39,876 --> 00:01:41,676 Speaker 1: Well, it's actually a fake. It's a green screen. 28 00:01:41,756 --> 00:01:42,956 Speaker 2: Oh, it's a green screen. Okay. 29 00:01:43,156 --> 00:01:45,556 Speaker 1: My green screen image is an actual photo of my 30 00:01:45,636 --> 00:01:48,836 Speaker 1: real office at Yale, which was apparently giving much more 31 00:01:48,836 --> 00:01:50,956 Speaker 1: away about my identity than I realized. 32 00:01:51,276 --> 00:01:53,636 Speaker 2: I love seeing books behind you, and to me like 33 00:01:53,676 --> 00:01:55,356 Speaker 2: one of my favorite things about a space. So I 34 00:01:55,396 --> 00:01:58,156 Speaker 2: love seeing people's books and then you're like sitting there 35 00:01:58,276 --> 00:02:00,756 Speaker 2: as you're talking to them, trying to analyze, like, okay, 36 00:02:00,836 --> 00:02:03,036 Speaker 2: what is this person because they have like a Beastie 37 00:02:03,036 --> 00:02:05,836 Speaker 2: Boys book and a you know, Catch twenty two and 38 00:02:05,876 --> 00:02:08,356 Speaker 2: then like Victor Frankel, and you know, it's. 39 00:02:08,316 --> 00:02:11,156 Speaker 1: Like okay, Like, can I just say that I love 40 00:02:11,196 --> 00:02:14,156 Speaker 1: how Lighty noticed my Beastie Boys book. But I also 41 00:02:14,236 --> 00:02:16,916 Speaker 1: love the general idea that our spaces tell a story 42 00:02:16,956 --> 00:02:19,996 Speaker 1: about who we are, because if our outer worlds shape 43 00:02:20,036 --> 00:02:22,836 Speaker 1: our inner worlds, that means we can design our spaces 44 00:02:22,956 --> 00:02:26,196 Speaker 1: to take authorship over our stories. We can become more 45 00:02:26,196 --> 00:02:29,116 Speaker 1: intentional about the places we spend time in and how 46 00:02:29,116 --> 00:02:32,876 Speaker 1: they shape our mental health and our happiness. So stay 47 00:02:32,876 --> 00:02:35,796 Speaker 1: tuned because in this episode of our Spring cleaning series, 48 00:02:36,116 --> 00:02:38,836 Speaker 1: we'll be showing you how to do just that. Lighty 49 00:02:38,916 --> 00:02:41,396 Speaker 1: will be back with all his helpful tips right after 50 00:02:41,396 --> 00:02:54,516 Speaker 1: these quick ads. When you think about spaces in your 51 00:02:54,556 --> 00:02:56,596 Speaker 1: own life that have made you happiest, what are the 52 00:02:56,676 --> 00:02:59,116 Speaker 1: kinds of spaces that come to mind? I, to this 53 00:02:59,276 --> 00:03:02,596 Speaker 1: day like bedrooms that have weird angles because I grew 54 00:03:02,676 --> 00:03:04,476 Speaker 1: up in like an old farmhouse. 55 00:03:04,596 --> 00:03:07,276 Speaker 2: In my bedroom was full high ceiling where my bed was, 56 00:03:07,316 --> 00:03:10,276 Speaker 2: but then quickly went down at an angle, and any 57 00:03:10,316 --> 00:03:13,036 Speaker 2: angle sealing hearkens back to my childhood. And I actually 58 00:03:13,036 --> 00:03:16,116 Speaker 2: do this in my class. I will ask students at 59 00:03:16,116 --> 00:03:18,196 Speaker 2: the beginning of the semester as an icebreaker, like what's 60 00:03:18,236 --> 00:03:22,076 Speaker 2: your favorite space that you've ever been in? And most 61 00:03:22,076 --> 00:03:24,236 Speaker 2: of the spaces that they talk about are some pretty 62 00:03:24,276 --> 00:03:27,116 Speaker 2: regular space that's been imbued with meaning in some other way, 63 00:03:27,236 --> 00:03:29,276 Speaker 2: So like the diner where my high school friends used 64 00:03:29,276 --> 00:03:31,196 Speaker 2: to hang out, or even just like the kitchen island 65 00:03:31,196 --> 00:03:34,676 Speaker 2: where I did my homework with mom listening to podcasts, 66 00:03:34,756 --> 00:03:35,716 Speaker 2: or something like that. 67 00:03:35,756 --> 00:03:38,876 Speaker 1: These kinds of spaces, the ones that make us feel safe, relaxed, 68 00:03:38,876 --> 00:03:42,316 Speaker 1: and happy, are actually pretty rare. We also fail to 69 00:03:42,316 --> 00:03:45,756 Speaker 1: prioritize well being boosting space is like these. Because we're 70 00:03:45,756 --> 00:03:48,276 Speaker 1: often not fully aware of what's going on around us, 71 00:03:48,716 --> 00:03:52,196 Speaker 1: we fall prey to a bias that psychologists call habituation. 72 00:03:52,836 --> 00:03:55,876 Speaker 2: Habituation is just getting used to the way things are. 73 00:03:55,956 --> 00:04:00,116 Speaker 2: There's a famous psychological study about fire extinguishers that people 74 00:04:00,436 --> 00:04:03,356 Speaker 2: in offices ask where the nearest fire extinguisher is can 75 00:04:03,436 --> 00:04:07,956 Speaker 2: identify it right, And of course, fire extinguishers are designed 76 00:04:08,156 --> 00:04:11,196 Speaker 2: to be noticeable. They're read, they're placed in prominent locations, 77 00:04:11,196 --> 00:04:13,596 Speaker 2: they're literally life saving, and yet the more you walk 78 00:04:13,596 --> 00:04:15,596 Speaker 2: by them, the less you kind of notice them, just 79 00:04:15,596 --> 00:04:17,916 Speaker 2: because they're always there. We get in habits with how 80 00:04:17,956 --> 00:04:20,276 Speaker 2: we interact with our spaces, and a lot of the 81 00:04:20,316 --> 00:04:23,556 Speaker 2: time that's really good, right. I don't want to have 82 00:04:23,676 --> 00:04:27,196 Speaker 2: to analyze the design of my baseboard every time I 83 00:04:27,236 --> 00:04:29,356 Speaker 2: walk out of my house in the morning. I want 84 00:04:29,396 --> 00:04:31,476 Speaker 2: to be able to think about other things. But it 85 00:04:31,516 --> 00:04:35,956 Speaker 2: also causes us to miss really beautiful and meaningful things 86 00:04:35,956 --> 00:04:39,356 Speaker 2: in the world, or just opportunities for spaces that we 87 00:04:39,476 --> 00:04:42,196 Speaker 2: never considered and would want to use if we actually 88 00:04:42,236 --> 00:04:42,796 Speaker 2: looked at them. 89 00:04:43,036 --> 00:04:45,316 Speaker 1: And so let's walk through some of the evolutionary logic 90 00:04:45,356 --> 00:04:47,596 Speaker 1: to the importance of spaces. A lot of the book 91 00:04:48,076 --> 00:04:51,396 Speaker 1: uses this idea of self determination theory. What's that and 92 00:04:51,396 --> 00:04:53,436 Speaker 1: why is it so important when we're thinking about spaces. 93 00:04:54,196 --> 00:04:57,596 Speaker 2: If you think about our hunter gatherer ancestors, the ones 94 00:04:57,636 --> 00:05:01,116 Speaker 2: that survived were the ones that controlled their surroundings in 95 00:05:01,156 --> 00:05:04,556 Speaker 2: some way figured out how to create shelter. You figured 96 00:05:04,556 --> 00:05:07,196 Speaker 2: out how to you know, have protection from the elements, 97 00:05:07,196 --> 00:05:10,756 Speaker 2: protection from predators. So what would make you do that 98 00:05:11,196 --> 00:05:14,876 Speaker 2: is some kind of psychological pull to want to interact 99 00:05:14,876 --> 00:05:17,596 Speaker 2: with your surroundings. Right, this feels good? And so self 100 00:05:17,596 --> 00:05:20,556 Speaker 2: determination theory is the idea that we have these kind 101 00:05:20,556 --> 00:05:24,356 Speaker 2: of three fundamental psychological or emotional needs that if we 102 00:05:24,436 --> 00:05:26,676 Speaker 2: meet we do well, and if we don't meet them, 103 00:05:26,796 --> 00:05:29,556 Speaker 2: we struggle. And this is not my research. This is 104 00:05:29,756 --> 00:05:32,276 Speaker 2: a whole body of research confirmed over and over in 105 00:05:32,316 --> 00:05:36,516 Speaker 2: all kinds of different populations. And these are agency, competence 106 00:05:36,636 --> 00:05:40,036 Speaker 2: or growth, and kind of connection or belonging. I think 107 00:05:40,076 --> 00:05:42,196 Speaker 2: about them as like a kid playing on the beach 108 00:05:42,236 --> 00:05:43,836 Speaker 2: with a sand castle. Right, So if you go to 109 00:05:43,916 --> 00:05:46,036 Speaker 2: the beach and you've got kids with you, Like when 110 00:05:46,036 --> 00:05:49,516 Speaker 2: I took my daughter Josephine, she would go and immediately 111 00:05:49,556 --> 00:05:52,036 Speaker 2: they have agency. The rest of their world they're being 112 00:05:52,116 --> 00:05:54,316 Speaker 2: told what to do by parents and teachers, and they 113 00:05:54,316 --> 00:05:56,316 Speaker 2: go to the beach and they can decide where to build, 114 00:05:56,316 --> 00:05:58,436 Speaker 2: They can decide how big to make the castle, they 115 00:05:58,436 --> 00:06:02,356 Speaker 2: can decide what kind of architecture it is, and they 116 00:06:02,476 --> 00:06:04,796 Speaker 2: like it. So if agency is like the ability to 117 00:06:04,876 --> 00:06:07,716 Speaker 2: do it, competence and growth is the actual doing. And 118 00:06:07,756 --> 00:06:10,956 Speaker 2: so the things the kid learns just building a sand 119 00:06:10,996 --> 00:06:14,196 Speaker 2: castle are quite amazing if you think about Okay, they're 120 00:06:14,236 --> 00:06:18,076 Speaker 2: learning pretty high level like fluid mechanics, just how the 121 00:06:18,116 --> 00:06:21,836 Speaker 2: water erodes. They are learning material properties of sand, but 122 00:06:21,836 --> 00:06:25,396 Speaker 2: they're also learning about themselves and their relationship with the world. 123 00:06:25,396 --> 00:06:28,756 Speaker 2: When the tower collapses and they get frustrated, they realize 124 00:06:28,756 --> 00:06:31,276 Speaker 2: that if they build it back, that also feels pretty 125 00:06:31,276 --> 00:06:34,076 Speaker 2: good that they have some kind of control over it. 126 00:06:34,596 --> 00:06:37,356 Speaker 2: So that's the growth piece that we get from interacting 127 00:06:37,356 --> 00:06:40,476 Speaker 2: with our surroundings. And then the connection. Every one of 128 00:06:40,476 --> 00:06:43,116 Speaker 2: these projects that I've ever seen starts with like one kid, 129 00:06:43,276 --> 00:06:46,076 Speaker 2: and then they realize that if they can recruit the cousins, 130 00:06:46,276 --> 00:06:48,276 Speaker 2: it's going to get bigger and they can do more. 131 00:06:48,396 --> 00:06:50,956 Speaker 2: And then I, inevitably, as the parent, end up schlepping 132 00:06:50,996 --> 00:06:53,716 Speaker 2: down to the ocean to like grab buckets of water 133 00:06:53,796 --> 00:06:56,076 Speaker 2: and come back up and dump them in their pond. 134 00:06:56,196 --> 00:06:58,316 Speaker 2: That then goes away by the time I walk down 135 00:06:58,316 --> 00:07:00,916 Speaker 2: to the ocean and come back again. But the connection 136 00:07:01,036 --> 00:07:03,956 Speaker 2: then is like, Okay, by building together, we're not just 137 00:07:04,036 --> 00:07:08,316 Speaker 2: building the structure, but also building relationships between the people, 138 00:07:08,516 --> 00:07:12,476 Speaker 2: and you just think about human connection at the societal level. 139 00:07:12,796 --> 00:07:15,476 Speaker 2: The leading theory now is that the reason the hunter 140 00:07:15,516 --> 00:07:18,996 Speaker 2: gatherer bands came together in the first place was to 141 00:07:19,036 --> 00:07:24,116 Speaker 2: be able to build and maintain big structures. This act 142 00:07:24,156 --> 00:07:29,236 Speaker 2: of building together is like the genesis of civilization. So 143 00:07:29,516 --> 00:07:31,676 Speaker 2: you know, these core needs that we have for agency, 144 00:07:31,716 --> 00:07:35,956 Speaker 2: growth and connection kind of originated in our relationship with 145 00:07:36,076 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 2: our surroundings. And now, of course our relationship with our 146 00:07:39,276 --> 00:07:41,436 Speaker 2: surroundings is different. You and I aren't having to go 147 00:07:41,516 --> 00:07:45,596 Speaker 2: around thankfully manipulating our surroundings just to be able to survive. 148 00:07:45,756 --> 00:07:49,356 Speaker 2: But we can still meet our psychological needs by manipulating 149 00:07:49,356 --> 00:07:50,196 Speaker 2: our surroundings. 150 00:07:50,476 --> 00:07:52,796 Speaker 1: And so you've used this example with children, but as 151 00:07:52,836 --> 00:07:55,516 Speaker 1: adults we'd be happier in our spaces if we embrace 152 00:07:55,596 --> 00:07:58,916 Speaker 1: these three things too. Thinking specifically about agency, your book 153 00:07:58,956 --> 00:08:02,036 Speaker 1: share some lovely examples of people finding agency over their space, 154 00:08:02,156 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 1: especially in situations where this is seemingly impossible. You wrote 155 00:08:05,436 --> 00:08:08,076 Speaker 1: about an example of Nelson Mandela. Can you share that 156 00:08:08,116 --> 00:08:08,756 Speaker 1: example here? 157 00:08:09,316 --> 00:08:12,556 Speaker 2: So, Nelson Mandela famously imprisoned for a really long time, 158 00:08:12,596 --> 00:08:14,316 Speaker 2: and I guess one of the things that he did 159 00:08:14,716 --> 00:08:18,116 Speaker 2: when he was imprisoned was on the rooftop of the prison. 160 00:08:18,196 --> 00:08:20,156 Speaker 2: There is a space that he found. I think he wrote, 161 00:08:20,156 --> 00:08:23,196 Speaker 2: bathed all day in sunlight, and then he lobbied the 162 00:08:23,236 --> 00:08:26,116 Speaker 2: guards to be able to have a garden up there 163 00:08:26,436 --> 00:08:29,236 Speaker 2: and then was able to use it. And obviously Mendela 164 00:08:29,356 --> 00:08:35,236 Speaker 2: is like an exemplar of taking obstacles and persisting regardless. 165 00:08:35,476 --> 00:08:38,916 Speaker 2: It's an incredibly extreme example, but we all have access 166 00:08:38,956 --> 00:08:41,996 Speaker 2: to spaces that we're not necessarily taking advantage of, and 167 00:08:42,036 --> 00:08:46,116 Speaker 2: we're all going to have our spaces constrained in some way. 168 00:08:46,676 --> 00:08:49,676 Speaker 2: Hopefully we're not going to be incarcerated. But there are 169 00:08:49,716 --> 00:08:51,756 Speaker 2: spaces that we can't change, and when we face the 170 00:08:51,796 --> 00:08:54,676 Speaker 2: space that we can't change, we can get agency by 171 00:08:54,996 --> 00:08:57,036 Speaker 2: looking at something about it that we. 172 00:08:56,996 --> 00:09:00,276 Speaker 1: Can, So that's agency the second need growth. I love 173 00:09:00,316 --> 00:09:02,356 Speaker 1: this idea of the kids building the sand castle and 174 00:09:02,436 --> 00:09:04,516 Speaker 1: learning all these new things, both in terms of their 175 00:09:04,516 --> 00:09:07,556 Speaker 1: own emotion regulation and like fluid dynamics and so on. 176 00:09:08,116 --> 00:09:10,036 Speaker 1: But you point out that there's simple ways that we 177 00:09:10,076 --> 00:09:12,676 Speaker 1: can grow and get creative even in our own spaces. 178 00:09:13,076 --> 00:09:15,036 Speaker 1: You use an example from a family that you knew 179 00:09:15,076 --> 00:09:16,916 Speaker 1: that even just switched up where they eat dinner. Tell 180 00:09:16,956 --> 00:09:17,436 Speaker 1: me about that. 181 00:09:17,796 --> 00:09:20,156 Speaker 2: The Lee family. They're my friends, and there was a 182 00:09:20,156 --> 00:09:22,876 Speaker 2: time in their life where they had four kids under 183 00:09:22,916 --> 00:09:24,876 Speaker 2: the age of six. And I was talking to the 184 00:09:24,996 --> 00:09:27,676 Speaker 2: dad at that time and I said, Hey, how's it going, 185 00:09:27,716 --> 00:09:29,596 Speaker 2: And he's like, things are pretty good. We've taken to 186 00:09:29,636 --> 00:09:31,476 Speaker 2: eating outside And I was like, what do you mean, 187 00:09:31,516 --> 00:09:33,596 Speaker 2: like once a week. He's like, no, wet every meal 188 00:09:33,996 --> 00:09:37,236 Speaker 2: outside And I was like, wow, that sounds like a lot. 189 00:09:37,276 --> 00:09:39,636 Speaker 2: He's like, no, actually, So we go out there and 190 00:09:40,116 --> 00:09:42,316 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if the kids spill. It just like 191 00:09:42,436 --> 00:09:45,436 Speaker 2: goes into the ecosystem. And then when they're done eating, 192 00:09:45,476 --> 00:09:48,876 Speaker 2: they can run around outside and it doesn't bother Katie 193 00:09:48,916 --> 00:09:51,956 Speaker 2: and I as much. And when they're making loud noises, 194 00:09:51,996 --> 00:09:54,036 Speaker 2: it doesn't reverberate around the kitchen wall. So it had 195 00:09:54,076 --> 00:09:56,476 Speaker 2: made their life better, and I think it illustrates this 196 00:09:56,596 --> 00:09:59,236 Speaker 2: principle similar to what Mandela did. But it's also like 197 00:09:59,316 --> 00:10:02,316 Speaker 2: here's a space that they had access to that they 198 00:10:02,316 --> 00:10:04,476 Speaker 2: had never thought of using that way. One way to 199 00:10:04,556 --> 00:10:07,716 Speaker 2: kind of break through from that is to not necessarily 200 00:10:07,916 --> 00:10:10,436 Speaker 2: put labels on your space. This is according to like 201 00:10:10,516 --> 00:10:12,236 Speaker 2: this is a dining room, this is a kitchen, this 202 00:10:12,396 --> 00:10:15,956 Speaker 2: is a patio. It's like this is a ten foot 203 00:10:15,996 --> 00:10:19,716 Speaker 2: by twenty foot space that is pleasant in the spring 204 00:10:19,756 --> 00:10:22,956 Speaker 2: in the fall and has some breezes and grass and 205 00:10:23,116 --> 00:10:25,476 Speaker 2: a jungle gym near it or whatever. And then you 206 00:10:25,516 --> 00:10:28,196 Speaker 2: can start to kind of line up your activities with 207 00:10:28,596 --> 00:10:32,676 Speaker 2: the spaces and break away from functional fixedness that we 208 00:10:32,716 --> 00:10:35,676 Speaker 2: get related to how these spaces are supposed to work. 209 00:10:35,956 --> 00:10:37,716 Speaker 1: And so this is this idea of growth. We can 210 00:10:37,756 --> 00:10:40,356 Speaker 1: get competent in our spaces, we can get super creative. 211 00:10:40,676 --> 00:10:42,876 Speaker 1: The last need you mentioned when you were talking about 212 00:10:42,876 --> 00:10:45,316 Speaker 1: the Sanchalxil example was the one that I think we 213 00:10:45,396 --> 00:10:47,236 Speaker 1: talk about the most on the Happiness Lab, which is 214 00:10:47,276 --> 00:10:50,116 Speaker 1: this idea of connection. Usually when we're talking about on 215 00:10:50,116 --> 00:10:53,116 Speaker 1: the Happiness Lab, we're thinking about individual strategies you can 216 00:10:53,156 --> 00:10:55,236 Speaker 1: do to boost your social connection, so like text a 217 00:10:55,276 --> 00:10:57,476 Speaker 1: friend or talk to the stranger in the coffee shop. 218 00:10:57,876 --> 00:11:00,836 Speaker 1: But your point is that spaces are an incredible vehicle 219 00:11:00,916 --> 00:11:03,836 Speaker 1: for building these really basic social connections. Why is that 220 00:11:03,876 --> 00:11:05,876 Speaker 1: the case? Why can space be so powerful for that? 221 00:11:06,436 --> 00:11:10,076 Speaker 2: This also ties into our modern world, these opportunities that 222 00:11:10,116 --> 00:11:13,156 Speaker 2: we have to not have to commute into work just 223 00:11:13,276 --> 00:11:15,436 Speaker 2: to meet with somebody if we can talk on Zoom 224 00:11:15,556 --> 00:11:18,996 Speaker 2: or I get my groceries delivered and I don't miss 225 00:11:19,036 --> 00:11:21,956 Speaker 2: the grocery store, but I do miss the random person 226 00:11:21,956 --> 00:11:24,236 Speaker 2: who smiles at you and reminds you that there's like 227 00:11:24,396 --> 00:11:28,716 Speaker 2: good humanity out there. So part of it is just proximity, right, 228 00:11:28,756 --> 00:11:31,036 Speaker 2: how do you want to be able to have interactions? 229 00:11:31,036 --> 00:11:33,156 Speaker 2: Who do you want to be able to have interactions with? 230 00:11:33,316 --> 00:11:35,516 Speaker 2: I mean, I think about this a lot because I'm 231 00:11:35,596 --> 00:11:37,796 Speaker 2: naturally an introvert. I'm not going to go out and 232 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:41,756 Speaker 2: seek interactions, but I need other people around and so 233 00:11:41,916 --> 00:11:43,916 Speaker 2: it's really important for me to live in a place 234 00:11:43,916 --> 00:11:47,036 Speaker 2: where there's just going to be people happening by if 235 00:11:47,036 --> 00:11:48,916 Speaker 2: I'm sitting out on the porch on the weekend. 236 00:11:49,676 --> 00:11:52,796 Speaker 1: So self determination theory suggest that we're wired to shape 237 00:11:52,836 --> 00:11:57,436 Speaker 1: our surroundings in ways that support three basic needs, agency, growth, 238 00:11:57,436 --> 00:12:00,876 Speaker 1: and connection. But how do we actually build those kinds 239 00:12:00,916 --> 00:12:04,516 Speaker 1: of spaces into our everyday life. After the break, we'll 240 00:12:04,516 --> 00:12:07,276 Speaker 1: walk through ten actionable ways we can do just this. 241 00:12:07,876 --> 00:12:23,396 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab will be right back. University of Virginia 242 00:12:23,436 --> 00:12:27,036 Speaker 1: professor Ldi Klotz studies how the spaces around us quietly 243 00:12:27,076 --> 00:12:29,956 Speaker 1: shape our moods, our thoughts, and even our behavior. His 244 00:12:30,116 --> 00:12:32,716 Speaker 1: note book In a Good Place breaks down how simple 245 00:12:32,756 --> 00:12:35,596 Speaker 1: design choices can lead to big improvements in our well being. 246 00:12:36,116 --> 00:12:38,196 Speaker 1: I picked out ten of my favorite ideas from the 247 00:12:38,196 --> 00:12:41,476 Speaker 1: book and ask Lydy to walk us through them, starting 248 00:12:41,516 --> 00:12:44,276 Speaker 1: with number one. Something we can all use a little 249 00:12:44,276 --> 00:12:47,676 Speaker 1: more of better connection with other people. And for that, 250 00:12:47,956 --> 00:12:51,196 Speaker 1: Lighty says we need more of what he calls campfires. 251 00:12:51,636 --> 00:12:53,756 Speaker 2: A campfire, if you think about it, is just set 252 00:12:53,836 --> 00:12:57,316 Speaker 2: up for people to connect. It's a circle. There's not 253 00:12:57,436 --> 00:13:00,116 Speaker 2: a screen in the middle, there's just warmth in the middle. 254 00:13:00,396 --> 00:13:02,836 Speaker 2: If you think about a campfire, it invites people in. 255 00:13:02,876 --> 00:13:05,276 Speaker 2: There's an extreme example that I use in the book 256 00:13:05,316 --> 00:13:09,036 Speaker 2: of a event planning company that set up campfires to 257 00:13:09,236 --> 00:13:11,276 Speaker 2: try to make it so that people would bond at 258 00:13:11,316 --> 00:13:14,076 Speaker 2: the event. But you don't need to have glowing orbs 259 00:13:14,076 --> 00:13:15,716 Speaker 2: in the middle of a circle, but you do need 260 00:13:15,756 --> 00:13:18,516 Speaker 2: to think about, well, if I have a seventy two 261 00:13:18,516 --> 00:13:21,916 Speaker 2: inch screen above my fireplace that's on and people come 262 00:13:21,956 --> 00:13:23,996 Speaker 2: into the room, that's what they're going to be focused on. 263 00:13:24,076 --> 00:13:26,796 Speaker 2: Whereas if I have a seating area that's arranged in 264 00:13:26,836 --> 00:13:28,756 Speaker 2: a circle and then invite them to sit down and 265 00:13:28,756 --> 00:13:31,636 Speaker 2: it's comfortable, there's more likely to be connection. So that's 266 00:13:31,636 --> 00:13:34,796 Speaker 2: a campfire. I mean, here's an example that I would 267 00:13:34,876 --> 00:13:37,796 Speaker 2: use at a conference is like thinking strategically about where 268 00:13:37,836 --> 00:13:40,556 Speaker 2: I sit. It's uncomfortable for me to come up to 269 00:13:40,676 --> 00:13:43,196 Speaker 2: a group of eight people sitting in a circle unless 270 00:13:43,236 --> 00:13:44,876 Speaker 2: we all come at the same time. But I could 271 00:13:44,876 --> 00:13:47,916 Speaker 2: also like sit somewhere where there's an open seat next 272 00:13:47,956 --> 00:13:51,276 Speaker 2: to me, and it's inviting for somebody else to come 273 00:13:51,316 --> 00:13:53,276 Speaker 2: and have like a random connection in that way. 274 00:13:53,556 --> 00:13:55,516 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like creating these focal points where 275 00:13:55,516 --> 00:13:56,836 Speaker 1: social connection becomes. 276 00:13:56,556 --> 00:13:58,036 Speaker 2: Easy, exactly exactly. 277 00:13:58,396 --> 00:14:00,596 Speaker 1: So another tip that you have that's related to this 278 00:14:00,636 --> 00:14:03,196 Speaker 1: idea of social connection, which actually comes from your earlier 279 00:14:03,236 --> 00:14:07,556 Speaker 1: book subtract, is this idea that to engage in social 280 00:14:07,596 --> 00:14:10,556 Speaker 1: connection in our spaces, we need to clean up. This 281 00:14:10,636 --> 00:14:12,996 Speaker 1: feels especially salient to me right now because right now 282 00:14:13,036 --> 00:14:15,556 Speaker 1: I'm upstairs in my podcast studio and a friend of 283 00:14:15,556 --> 00:14:17,556 Speaker 1: mine who just happened to be in town was like, Oh, 284 00:14:17,596 --> 00:14:18,956 Speaker 1: I'll just come over to your house and wait till 285 00:14:18,956 --> 00:14:20,436 Speaker 1: you've done the podcast and then we can have time 286 00:14:20,476 --> 00:14:22,676 Speaker 1: to hang out. And my instant reaction when she said 287 00:14:22,676 --> 00:14:24,876 Speaker 1: this was like, Oh, my god, there's the stuff in 288 00:14:24,916 --> 00:14:26,876 Speaker 1: the kitchen, there's the stuff on the floor. It almost 289 00:14:26,916 --> 00:14:28,676 Speaker 1: made me tell her like, no, no, no, don't come to 290 00:14:28,716 --> 00:14:30,636 Speaker 1: my house. We'll meet at some coffee shop or something. 291 00:14:30,996 --> 00:14:33,716 Speaker 1: We can get really weirded out if our spaces don't 292 00:14:33,756 --> 00:14:36,156 Speaker 1: feel clean enough for other people to connect. But you've 293 00:14:36,156 --> 00:14:38,316 Speaker 1: pointed out that there's other reasons that cleaning up can 294 00:14:38,356 --> 00:14:40,396 Speaker 1: help us connect better. What are some of those reasons? 295 00:14:40,716 --> 00:14:43,356 Speaker 2: I mean, connecting is hard. Connecting takes a lot of 296 00:14:43,356 --> 00:14:46,076 Speaker 2: cognitive effort. Connecting takes a lot of attention. That's how 297 00:14:46,116 --> 00:14:49,436 Speaker 2: we're wired. And if the space is taking away from 298 00:14:49,436 --> 00:14:52,156 Speaker 2: that attention. You know, an example of my house, maybe 299 00:14:52,156 --> 00:14:54,516 Speaker 2: there's shin guards and boxer briefs on the floor, and 300 00:14:54,556 --> 00:14:57,556 Speaker 2: the person's thinking like what's going on here versus connecting 301 00:14:57,556 --> 00:15:00,556 Speaker 2: with me. It's the cognitive load of all the things 302 00:15:00,556 --> 00:15:02,716 Speaker 2: that people have to pay attention to in your space 303 00:15:02,796 --> 00:15:05,636 Speaker 2: is cognitive load that they're not devoting to connecting with you. 304 00:15:05,756 --> 00:15:08,356 Speaker 2: And this person's already a friend of yours, so you're okay, right, 305 00:15:08,396 --> 00:15:10,396 Speaker 2: But if you think of a new person coming into 306 00:15:10,436 --> 00:15:12,996 Speaker 2: your house, you want not a lot of distractions in 307 00:15:13,076 --> 00:15:15,596 Speaker 2: the space to take away from them connecting with you 308 00:15:15,716 --> 00:15:18,116 Speaker 2: and feeling comfortable with you. Or even it could be 309 00:15:18,196 --> 00:15:21,996 Speaker 2: like something that's a super fancy centerpiece that just the 310 00:15:22,036 --> 00:15:24,356 Speaker 2: person can't take their eye off it and then focus 311 00:15:24,396 --> 00:15:27,436 Speaker 2: on you. Those are things that are distracting from the 312 00:15:27,516 --> 00:15:30,796 Speaker 2: human connection that might happen in the space. Also, just 313 00:15:31,196 --> 00:15:35,076 Speaker 2: simply coming into your house and taking an outside view 314 00:15:35,156 --> 00:15:37,316 Speaker 2: saying Okay, if I didn't live here, what would this 315 00:15:37,396 --> 00:15:39,596 Speaker 2: look like to me? I think is probably a good exercise. 316 00:15:39,756 --> 00:15:42,276 Speaker 1: I love this point about the distraction specifically, too, because 317 00:15:42,276 --> 00:15:44,636 Speaker 1: that gets to tip number three that you've talked about, 318 00:15:44,876 --> 00:15:47,356 Speaker 1: which is to find ways to use your spaces to 319 00:15:47,436 --> 00:15:50,556 Speaker 1: fight choice paralysis, which is another way that we can 320 00:15:50,636 --> 00:15:53,596 Speaker 1: kind of get cognitively overloaded. How do you define choice 321 00:15:53,596 --> 00:15:55,796 Speaker 1: paralysis and how can we use our spaces to fight it. 322 00:15:56,436 --> 00:15:59,996 Speaker 2: Too many choices causes us to not only make bad decisions, 323 00:16:00,036 --> 00:16:02,436 Speaker 2: but also feel bad about the decisions that we do make. 324 00:16:02,516 --> 00:16:05,796 Speaker 2: For example, with chocolates, if people have thirty chocolates to 325 00:16:05,876 --> 00:16:10,076 Speaker 2: choose from, they are more disappointed with their choice then 326 00:16:10,076 --> 00:16:12,956 Speaker 2: if they only have some subset of six to choose from. Right, 327 00:16:12,956 --> 00:16:14,956 Speaker 2: because you're thinking about what you missed out on and 328 00:16:14,996 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 2: you felt cognitively overloaded. Now that's just thirty and six, 329 00:16:19,036 --> 00:16:21,156 Speaker 2: and now think about all the degrees of freedom and 330 00:16:21,236 --> 00:16:24,796 Speaker 2: all the endless options in our spaces, and so I 331 00:16:24,836 --> 00:16:27,716 Speaker 2: think narrowing down those options. So we want to have choice, 332 00:16:27,716 --> 00:16:30,156 Speaker 2: but we don't want to be like overloaded with the 333 00:16:30,196 --> 00:16:32,316 Speaker 2: amount of choice that we have. And one thing that 334 00:16:32,556 --> 00:16:35,676 Speaker 2: architects have learned to do was in the design process, 335 00:16:35,836 --> 00:16:38,276 Speaker 2: if they're doing a new building or even like renovating, 336 00:16:38,556 --> 00:16:41,596 Speaker 2: there's a stage where they present three different options. So 337 00:16:41,636 --> 00:16:43,796 Speaker 2: one option might be like, okay, this is centered on 338 00:16:44,076 --> 00:16:46,036 Speaker 2: a view out the window, and this one's centered on 339 00:16:46,076 --> 00:16:48,236 Speaker 2: a gathering area in the living room, and this one's 340 00:16:48,556 --> 00:16:51,436 Speaker 2: some other principle. So if we're thinking about setting up 341 00:16:51,436 --> 00:16:54,476 Speaker 2: your home office, for example, starting with like, what are 342 00:16:54,516 --> 00:16:58,476 Speaker 2: the three basic options that I want to explore before 343 00:16:58,516 --> 00:17:01,956 Speaker 2: you get into any kind of furnishings, and you know, 344 00:17:02,036 --> 00:17:04,636 Speaker 2: paint colors and all these other details that just make 345 00:17:04,956 --> 00:17:05,916 Speaker 2: endless choice. 346 00:17:06,356 --> 00:17:07,996 Speaker 1: Your book also has some tips that we can use 347 00:17:08,036 --> 00:17:10,636 Speaker 1: to avoid choice paralysis, and one of them is that 348 00:17:10,676 --> 00:17:13,636 Speaker 1: we need to avoid our tendency towards bike shedding. What 349 00:17:13,716 --> 00:17:14,476 Speaker 1: is bike shedding? 350 00:17:15,076 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 2: Basically, it's that left to our own devices, we often 351 00:17:18,876 --> 00:17:22,236 Speaker 2: focus on the small and inconsequential things at the expense 352 00:17:22,356 --> 00:17:26,636 Speaker 2: of big important things. And the bike shedding example, it's 353 00:17:26,636 --> 00:17:29,716 Speaker 2: a built environment example that's been applied to all kinds 354 00:17:29,716 --> 00:17:32,396 Speaker 2: of decision making, but the original example is like a 355 00:17:32,436 --> 00:17:36,396 Speaker 2: committee convened to discuss the construction of a nuclear power plant. 356 00:17:36,436 --> 00:17:41,156 Speaker 2: Everybody's there, engineers, owners, architects, plant operators, maybe some community members, 357 00:17:41,436 --> 00:17:45,916 Speaker 2: and the plans get presented. Everybody's like, looks good. They 358 00:17:45,956 --> 00:17:49,356 Speaker 2: ask some softball questions about the nuclear power plant, and 359 00:17:49,836 --> 00:17:51,396 Speaker 2: they're like, oh, you want to talk about the bike 360 00:17:51,436 --> 00:17:53,596 Speaker 2: shed that's going to go next to the nuclear power plant, 361 00:17:53,636 --> 00:17:57,076 Speaker 2: And like the meeting springs to life, right, everybody has opinions. 362 00:17:57,276 --> 00:17:59,796 Speaker 2: They're like, what's the new racking system? Going to be, 363 00:17:59,916 --> 00:18:01,756 Speaker 2: what color are we going to paint it, where's it 364 00:18:01,796 --> 00:18:04,996 Speaker 2: going to be located. It's an illustration of like the 365 00:18:04,996 --> 00:18:08,236 Speaker 2: bike shed is more understandable, people get the bike shed 366 00:18:08,276 --> 00:18:11,996 Speaker 2: and therefore feel okay chiming in on it. There's also 367 00:18:12,076 --> 00:18:15,276 Speaker 2: the decisions related to the bike shed, while small, are 368 00:18:15,396 --> 00:18:17,636 Speaker 2: much more certain like, Okay, if we paint the bike 369 00:18:17,676 --> 00:18:20,396 Speaker 2: shed blue, everybody knows what that is going to look like, 370 00:18:20,396 --> 00:18:22,356 Speaker 2: whereas if you say, oh, we should have a different 371 00:18:22,476 --> 00:18:26,676 Speaker 2: kind of nuclear reactor, nobody even knows what that would 372 00:18:26,956 --> 00:18:30,276 Speaker 2: would mean. So we focus on these small and inconsequential 373 00:18:30,356 --> 00:18:34,036 Speaker 2: decisions because they're understandable, but also because there's more kind 374 00:18:34,076 --> 00:18:37,116 Speaker 2: of certainty and what the ultimate decision outcome would look like. 375 00:18:37,316 --> 00:18:40,916 Speaker 2: So it becomes really important to get over bike shedding, 376 00:18:41,236 --> 00:18:43,476 Speaker 2: to go back to basic principles about what we want 377 00:18:43,476 --> 00:18:45,636 Speaker 2: from the space. And that's one reason why it's important 378 00:18:45,636 --> 00:18:48,636 Speaker 2: to think about agency growth and connection. That's one way 379 00:18:48,636 --> 00:18:50,956 Speaker 2: to avoid bike shedding is to say, Okay, how is 380 00:18:50,996 --> 00:18:55,116 Speaker 2: this going to contribute to these fundamental psychological needs? But 381 00:18:55,276 --> 00:18:57,876 Speaker 2: what it's doing is helping people think through the big 382 00:18:57,916 --> 00:19:02,636 Speaker 2: things before you move on to these small, granular decisions. 383 00:19:02,956 --> 00:19:05,796 Speaker 1: So that's tip number three. Avoid the choice paralysis, fight 384 00:19:05,836 --> 00:19:08,556 Speaker 1: the bike shedding. Tip number four swhich is gears a 385 00:19:08,596 --> 00:19:10,476 Speaker 1: little bit. It's this idea that we need to fight 386 00:19:10,516 --> 00:19:13,676 Speaker 1: the habituation we would normally experience in spaces. 387 00:19:14,076 --> 00:19:18,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, a way to overcome it is to consciously tune 388 00:19:18,996 --> 00:19:22,876 Speaker 2: in to what's going on. One interesting way to pay 389 00:19:22,876 --> 00:19:25,516 Speaker 2: attention is to close your eyes. Close your eyes. All 390 00:19:25,516 --> 00:19:28,156 Speaker 2: of a sudden you'll start hearing things and smelling things 391 00:19:28,236 --> 00:19:31,716 Speaker 2: and maybe feeling things, maybe the breeze or whatever you 392 00:19:31,756 --> 00:19:36,156 Speaker 2: wouldn't have otherwise about the space. And this is an 393 00:19:36,156 --> 00:19:39,276 Speaker 2: opportunity to notice pleasant things, but it's also an opportunity 394 00:19:39,316 --> 00:19:43,996 Speaker 2: to notice negative things that even if you've habituated them 395 00:19:43,996 --> 00:19:47,316 Speaker 2: away or still having a toll. So there's studies of 396 00:19:47,356 --> 00:19:50,836 Speaker 2: workplaces where there's like a lot of ambient noise, and 397 00:19:50,876 --> 00:19:53,476 Speaker 2: even if workers don't say that it's a noisy workspace, 398 00:19:53,516 --> 00:19:55,956 Speaker 2: they still report being more stressed out at the end 399 00:19:56,036 --> 00:19:59,116 Speaker 2: of the day. The same with unpleasant smells, like the 400 00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:02,316 Speaker 2: new car smell that comes in cars but also off 401 00:20:02,356 --> 00:20:05,196 Speaker 2: gasing carpets, right, And people sit into space like that 402 00:20:05,316 --> 00:20:07,836 Speaker 2: all day and don't even notice the smell and then 403 00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:11,756 Speaker 2: go home with a headache because they've been inhaling the VOCs. 404 00:20:11,956 --> 00:20:15,396 Speaker 2: So breaking free fromt habituation is a matter of paying 405 00:20:15,396 --> 00:20:17,396 Speaker 2: closer attention. But like one way to do it is 406 00:20:17,396 --> 00:20:19,276 Speaker 2: to tap into all your senses. 407 00:20:20,036 --> 00:20:22,436 Speaker 1: Another tip that you've given for fighting habituation, which I 408 00:20:22,516 --> 00:20:24,116 Speaker 1: love so much, it's going to get its on tip 409 00:20:24,196 --> 00:20:28,076 Speaker 1: number Tip number five is what you've called space before screen. 410 00:20:28,276 --> 00:20:29,836 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what's that? 411 00:20:30,476 --> 00:20:33,796 Speaker 2: Obviously our screens are taking our attention. I use my screen. 412 00:20:33,836 --> 00:20:36,196 Speaker 2: It does amazing things. It's allowing us to talk right now, 413 00:20:36,276 --> 00:20:38,876 Speaker 2: me to talk to your audience. That's freaking amazing. But 414 00:20:40,156 --> 00:20:42,996 Speaker 2: no matter what it can do, it's not tapping into 415 00:20:42,996 --> 00:20:43,876 Speaker 2: my other senses. 416 00:20:43,996 --> 00:20:44,156 Speaker 1: Right. 417 00:20:44,156 --> 00:20:47,316 Speaker 2: It is basically just visual and sound here, but there's 418 00:20:47,356 --> 00:20:51,076 Speaker 2: no smell, there's no touch. It's two dimensional. And again 419 00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:55,396 Speaker 2: this isn't bad, but it is like kind of inadvertently 420 00:20:55,436 --> 00:20:58,516 Speaker 2: taking out of our life something that really provides meaning 421 00:20:58,716 --> 00:21:02,076 Speaker 2: and happiness and fulfillment. And so space before screen doesn't 422 00:21:02,076 --> 00:21:04,756 Speaker 2: even try to fight that and just use your screen 423 00:21:04,996 --> 00:21:07,796 Speaker 2: as a queue to take in the space around you. 424 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:10,396 Speaker 2: So if I walk into this space and I start 425 00:21:10,436 --> 00:21:12,276 Speaker 2: looking at my screen to see like, okay, did I 426 00:21:12,276 --> 00:21:15,276 Speaker 2: get a text? From anybody. When you start doing that, 427 00:21:15,356 --> 00:21:17,276 Speaker 2: say oh wait, I just looked at my screen. I'm 428 00:21:17,276 --> 00:21:18,996 Speaker 2: in a new space. Can I take in the space 429 00:21:19,076 --> 00:21:21,756 Speaker 2: And now all of a sudden you're looking and you're smelling, 430 00:21:21,796 --> 00:21:24,676 Speaker 2: and you're noticing things and you're seeing opportunities. So using 431 00:21:24,756 --> 00:21:27,956 Speaker 2: that thing that we're naturally drawn to and instead turning 432 00:21:27,956 --> 00:21:30,556 Speaker 2: it around as a reminder to analyze the space that 433 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:32,636 Speaker 2: we're in. You can do that in spaces that you're 434 00:21:32,676 --> 00:21:34,876 Speaker 2: in all the time, and I guarantee you will notice 435 00:21:35,116 --> 00:21:36,236 Speaker 2: new things about the space. 436 00:21:36,956 --> 00:21:39,636 Speaker 1: Since reading your book, I've tried doing this just using 437 00:21:39,676 --> 00:21:41,516 Speaker 1: my own phoe that I'm looking at as a queue, 438 00:21:41,556 --> 00:21:42,956 Speaker 1: and I can tell you this helped me in a 439 00:21:42,996 --> 00:21:45,756 Speaker 1: lot of spaces, but especially in the morning. Interesting, when 440 00:21:45,756 --> 00:21:47,596 Speaker 1: I first wake up and I'm looking at my phone 441 00:21:47,596 --> 00:21:49,636 Speaker 1: to check my email, it's like no space war screen 442 00:21:49,676 --> 00:21:52,316 Speaker 1: and I stop and I'm like, oh my my cozy bed, 443 00:21:52,396 --> 00:21:55,316 Speaker 1: the light is coming in, what's the weather outside the window, 444 00:21:55,356 --> 00:21:58,036 Speaker 1: And it's just so much more embodied and grounding, when 445 00:21:58,076 --> 00:22:00,436 Speaker 1: before I'd just be like halfway through my inbox before 446 00:22:00,436 --> 00:22:02,556 Speaker 1: I would even notice I was awake and alive and 447 00:22:02,556 --> 00:22:03,436 Speaker 1: I had a body at all. 448 00:22:03,956 --> 00:22:06,396 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that makes me really happy that it was helpful. 449 00:22:06,516 --> 00:22:08,636 Speaker 2: I do the same thing and resist the same way 450 00:22:08,676 --> 00:22:09,276 Speaker 2: that you do now. 451 00:22:10,836 --> 00:22:13,676 Speaker 1: So tip number six is one that's helpful whenever we're 452 00:22:13,716 --> 00:22:16,716 Speaker 1: in spaces that involve learning, and it's to harness what 453 00:22:16,756 --> 00:22:19,436 Speaker 1: you've called memory anchors. What are memory anchors? 454 00:22:19,996 --> 00:22:22,676 Speaker 2: So when we learn something, the information about where we 455 00:22:22,756 --> 00:22:25,636 Speaker 2: learned it is filed right alongside the thing that we learned. 456 00:22:25,876 --> 00:22:29,236 Speaker 2: Now we can engineer that, and if we want to 457 00:22:29,316 --> 00:22:32,076 Speaker 2: learn something and really remember it, then we can also 458 00:22:32,196 --> 00:22:34,516 Speaker 2: do it in a spot that we're more likely to remember. 459 00:22:34,596 --> 00:22:37,116 Speaker 2: So it's maybe a different spot and a really simple 460 00:22:37,156 --> 00:22:39,756 Speaker 2: example that I use in my teaching. I'll figure out 461 00:22:39,796 --> 00:22:41,796 Speaker 2: a reason to just get out of the classroom, then 462 00:22:41,796 --> 00:22:44,276 Speaker 2: go to some random spot on campus, and then I'll 463 00:22:44,356 --> 00:22:46,796 Speaker 2: guide them through an experience that helps them learn some 464 00:22:46,956 --> 00:22:49,596 Speaker 2: important lesson. And then they're like, why are we at 465 00:22:49,596 --> 00:22:52,756 Speaker 2: the Amphitheater for this? We didn't actually need to come here, Like, 466 00:22:52,796 --> 00:22:55,636 Speaker 2: I just wanted you to be more likely to remember this. 467 00:22:55,836 --> 00:22:59,036 Speaker 2: Like think back to your own school, right, If you 468 00:22:59,116 --> 00:23:02,956 Speaker 2: remember something, it's very often happens outside of the classroom. 469 00:23:02,996 --> 00:23:04,916 Speaker 2: Maybe it's on a field trip. I mean, my dad, 470 00:23:04,956 --> 00:23:06,396 Speaker 2: I don't know if he knew he was doing this, 471 00:23:06,516 --> 00:23:09,516 Speaker 2: but when he would help us with our biology, he 472 00:23:09,556 --> 00:23:11,916 Speaker 2: would take us on walks outside. So you're just like 473 00:23:11,996 --> 00:23:15,396 Speaker 2: getting people outside of the routine environment. And then you've 474 00:23:15,436 --> 00:23:18,876 Speaker 2: got this memory anchor where it's the new space and 475 00:23:19,156 --> 00:23:22,236 Speaker 2: the new idea working together to be remembered. 476 00:23:22,636 --> 00:23:24,556 Speaker 1: Seems like it's just another way we've going to harness 477 00:23:24,596 --> 00:23:28,116 Speaker 1: our spatial memory system, right, is that we're using space 478 00:23:28,236 --> 00:23:29,796 Speaker 1: to kind of do what we actually want to do, 479 00:23:29,836 --> 00:23:31,076 Speaker 1: which is to be learning new stuff. 480 00:23:31,716 --> 00:23:34,156 Speaker 2: Right, And you know, one of the ways that you 481 00:23:34,236 --> 00:23:37,716 Speaker 2: might hear about this idea is memory champions will if 482 00:23:37,716 --> 00:23:39,836 Speaker 2: they need to memorize a bunch of facts, we'll actually 483 00:23:39,916 --> 00:23:43,236 Speaker 2: take the facts and associate them with spaces. That's super interesting, 484 00:23:43,316 --> 00:23:47,116 Speaker 2: but it's pretty much useless for everybody else. And so 485 00:23:47,156 --> 00:23:49,796 Speaker 2: we're basically just turning that around, right, It's like, Okay, 486 00:23:49,876 --> 00:23:52,356 Speaker 2: we want to actually learn, so let's align our spaces 487 00:23:52,396 --> 00:23:52,836 Speaker 2: to do that. 488 00:23:53,636 --> 00:23:55,756 Speaker 1: So far, we've looked at how our spaces can shape 489 00:23:55,756 --> 00:23:58,596 Speaker 1: our daily habits, how we connect, how we focus, and 490 00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:02,116 Speaker 1: how we learn. After the break, we'll go deeper into 491 00:24:02,156 --> 00:24:05,196 Speaker 1: how our surroundings can reflect our values, tap into our 492 00:24:05,196 --> 00:24:07,956 Speaker 1: instincts and even help us stay connected to the people 493 00:24:07,996 --> 00:24:23,436 Speaker 1: we've lost Happiness Lab We'll be right back. We've been 494 00:24:23,436 --> 00:24:26,796 Speaker 1: walking through my top ten favorite ideas from Lightiklatz's new 495 00:24:26,836 --> 00:24:29,076 Speaker 1: book In a Good Place about how we can use 496 00:24:29,076 --> 00:24:32,596 Speaker 1: our spaces to boost well being. Tip number seven takes 497 00:24:32,676 --> 00:24:35,356 Speaker 1: us back to our evolutionary roots and the kinds of 498 00:24:35,436 --> 00:24:37,876 Speaker 1: environments that were naturally wired to feel good in. 499 00:24:38,196 --> 00:24:40,556 Speaker 2: Obviously, there's a lot of advice out there about what 500 00:24:40,596 --> 00:24:42,636 Speaker 2: you're going to like, and I think the ones that 501 00:24:42,716 --> 00:24:46,636 Speaker 2: really hold up scientifically are things that are aligned with 502 00:24:46,796 --> 00:24:50,436 Speaker 2: the laws of nature. And so one great example is 503 00:24:50,476 --> 00:24:54,276 Speaker 2: prospect and refuge. We talked earlier about spaces being critical 504 00:24:54,316 --> 00:24:56,396 Speaker 2: for our survival, So what kind of space would be 505 00:24:56,476 --> 00:24:59,436 Speaker 2: good for survival well refuge first, right, So if the 506 00:24:59,476 --> 00:25:01,716 Speaker 2: space is going to protect you from the elements and 507 00:25:01,756 --> 00:25:04,716 Speaker 2: from predators, but also prospect and being able to see 508 00:25:04,756 --> 00:25:09,036 Speaker 2: like food or water sources or other opportunities from the space. 509 00:25:09,316 --> 00:25:11,796 Speaker 2: In that prospect and refuge, I mean that's sitting under 510 00:25:11,796 --> 00:25:14,756 Speaker 2: an umbrella at the beach. You're getting prospect and refuge, 511 00:25:14,796 --> 00:25:17,956 Speaker 2: washing dishes in your kitchen while looking out the window. 512 00:25:18,076 --> 00:25:20,996 Speaker 2: That's prospect and refuge. So that's something that we tend 513 00:25:21,036 --> 00:25:24,276 Speaker 2: to like when it comes to design aesthetics. It's kind 514 00:25:24,276 --> 00:25:28,796 Speaker 2: of a balance of organization and complexity, and so this 515 00:25:28,916 --> 00:25:31,916 Speaker 2: is how nature just takes shape. Right, If you think 516 00:25:31,956 --> 00:25:36,436 Speaker 2: about a pine tree, for example, I mean, super complex, 517 00:25:36,636 --> 00:25:40,156 Speaker 2: impressive thing that's doing all this amazing stuff, but there 518 00:25:40,156 --> 00:25:43,596 Speaker 2: are also some very basic rules in the appearance of 519 00:25:43,636 --> 00:25:47,156 Speaker 2: this tree. You know, there's small patterns in the tip 520 00:25:47,196 --> 00:25:50,116 Speaker 2: of the branch that are identical to the patterns in 521 00:25:50,156 --> 00:25:53,116 Speaker 2: a larger branch, and you don't necessarily notice them unless 522 00:25:53,116 --> 00:25:55,676 Speaker 2: you're really trying to pay attention to it. But that's 523 00:25:55,716 --> 00:25:58,916 Speaker 2: the world that we've been surrounded with and that feels pleasing. 524 00:25:58,996 --> 00:26:01,716 Speaker 2: And going into a built environment example of that. If 525 00:26:01,756 --> 00:26:06,436 Speaker 2: you think about like a facade of bricks, super plane, right, 526 00:26:06,676 --> 00:26:09,356 Speaker 2: seemingly very straightforward, but if you look at how how 527 00:26:09,876 --> 00:26:13,196 Speaker 2: bricks are organized, which now you're going to be cursed 528 00:26:13,196 --> 00:26:16,996 Speaker 2: to do for the eternity, but there are all kinds 529 00:26:17,036 --> 00:26:19,476 Speaker 2: of different patterns. I mean, there's like a pattern where 530 00:26:19,756 --> 00:26:22,076 Speaker 2: the bricks are just staggered offset by a half a 531 00:26:22,116 --> 00:26:24,876 Speaker 2: brick each row, and that creates this balance of order 532 00:26:24,916 --> 00:26:26,996 Speaker 2: and complexity. But there are other patterns where you might 533 00:26:27,076 --> 00:26:29,636 Speaker 2: have a brick with the long side facing out than 534 00:26:29,636 --> 00:26:31,876 Speaker 2: a brick with the short side facing out, then longside, 535 00:26:31,876 --> 00:26:34,276 Speaker 2: then short side, and then that alternates each row, and 536 00:26:34,356 --> 00:26:37,596 Speaker 2: it creates this esthetic of like, Okay, there's complexity, but 537 00:26:37,636 --> 00:26:40,516 Speaker 2: there's also this underlying order, and that's stuff that we 538 00:26:40,796 --> 00:26:43,156 Speaker 2: tend to have been surrounded by for a long time, 539 00:26:43,196 --> 00:26:46,676 Speaker 2: and that kind of helps our brains feel comfortable and 540 00:26:46,716 --> 00:26:49,196 Speaker 2: then we can go about our lives doing other things. 541 00:26:49,756 --> 00:26:51,596 Speaker 1: Any tips for how to build more of that into 542 00:26:51,636 --> 00:26:52,476 Speaker 1: our own spaces. 543 00:26:53,076 --> 00:26:57,396 Speaker 2: The classic interior design advice about you know, varying the 544 00:26:57,516 --> 00:27:01,036 Speaker 2: materials so you don't want to get things too matchyat 545 00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:05,516 Speaker 2: but also have like a clear organizing principle to them. 546 00:27:05,756 --> 00:27:08,036 Speaker 1: So tip number seven was this evolutionary idea of go 547 00:27:08,156 --> 00:27:10,996 Speaker 1: for these moments of prospect and refuge, maybe find order 548 00:27:10,996 --> 00:27:14,516 Speaker 1: and complexity. Tip number eight is about aligning our space 549 00:27:14,556 --> 00:27:17,036 Speaker 1: with our beliefs. What are some beliefs that we might 550 00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:19,396 Speaker 1: be unknowingly propagating in our spaces. 551 00:27:20,236 --> 00:27:23,156 Speaker 2: I'll give you one eye, unknowably propagated. So we bought 552 00:27:23,196 --> 00:27:26,996 Speaker 2: an old cape cod post World War two house, and 553 00:27:27,316 --> 00:27:30,396 Speaker 2: the way those homes were designed classic design was that 554 00:27:30,516 --> 00:27:32,556 Speaker 2: the kitchen's kind of in the back, and of course 555 00:27:32,596 --> 00:27:36,876 Speaker 2: that was based on post World War two gender roles 556 00:27:36,916 --> 00:27:39,116 Speaker 2: where it was seen as the woman's jobs to be 557 00:27:39,196 --> 00:27:41,836 Speaker 2: there cooking but also cooking like out of sight from 558 00:27:41,836 --> 00:27:44,316 Speaker 2: everywhere else, and what was supposed to be bring out 559 00:27:44,316 --> 00:27:47,036 Speaker 2: the food and then return to the kitchen and people 560 00:27:47,076 --> 00:27:48,716 Speaker 2: don't have to see the mess, and people don't have 561 00:27:48,756 --> 00:27:51,356 Speaker 2: to interact with the mess. But like if you opened 562 00:27:51,396 --> 00:27:53,356 Speaker 2: up your kitchen to make it a more open plan 563 00:27:53,396 --> 00:27:56,116 Speaker 2: and you're like taking down those gender roles, and. 564 00:27:56,076 --> 00:27:58,076 Speaker 1: This kind of thing comes up at work too when 565 00:27:58,116 --> 00:28:00,876 Speaker 1: it comes to hierarchies that we might not intend as well. 566 00:28:00,956 --> 00:28:03,516 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you're thinking about the quality of 567 00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:06,396 Speaker 2: the offices, where the offices are, who uses what space. 568 00:28:06,436 --> 00:28:08,396 Speaker 2: I was talking to somebody recently and they're like, we 569 00:28:08,436 --> 00:28:11,516 Speaker 2: have this idea that our office is open plan and 570 00:28:11,556 --> 00:28:14,276 Speaker 2: everybody can use any space, but the big boss always 571 00:28:14,316 --> 00:28:16,876 Speaker 2: comes in and just sits in this conference room all day, 572 00:28:17,036 --> 00:28:19,356 Speaker 2: and it's like nobody's going to go take the big 573 00:28:19,396 --> 00:28:23,196 Speaker 2: bosses space, right, And so really thinking about what message 574 00:28:23,236 --> 00:28:26,876 Speaker 2: are you sending with the spaces and does it align 575 00:28:26,956 --> 00:28:30,556 Speaker 2: with what your company or yourself actually values, and what 576 00:28:30,636 --> 00:28:33,316 Speaker 2: I think is really important about like sharing our ideas 577 00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:36,076 Speaker 2: through spaces. I mean, people do all this work with 578 00:28:36,156 --> 00:28:38,236 Speaker 2: social norms because social norms is one of the most 579 00:28:38,236 --> 00:28:41,156 Speaker 2: powerful ways that behaviors spread. So when you see a 580 00:28:41,196 --> 00:28:44,516 Speaker 2: sticker that says I voted, that's like, okay, we're trying 581 00:28:44,516 --> 00:28:47,836 Speaker 2: to spread voting by making a behavior visible. And what's 582 00:28:47,836 --> 00:28:49,916 Speaker 2: hard about a lot of behaviors is that they're not 583 00:28:49,956 --> 00:28:52,076 Speaker 2: super visible, so you need a sticker. But a space 584 00:28:52,116 --> 00:28:54,636 Speaker 2: doesn't need a sticker, It's already there. And there's this 585 00:28:54,676 --> 00:28:58,236 Speaker 2: classic example, I think it's actually Connecticut suburbs of how 586 00:28:58,316 --> 00:29:01,956 Speaker 2: solar panels spread. And basically the gist of the study 587 00:29:02,076 --> 00:29:03,956 Speaker 2: is that people who can see solar panels from their 588 00:29:03,956 --> 00:29:06,316 Speaker 2: house are more likely to have solar panels on their house, 589 00:29:06,356 --> 00:29:09,436 Speaker 2: and they control for everything else. And so it's a 590 00:29:09,436 --> 00:29:12,756 Speaker 2: classic social norm right, It's just by seeing this space, 591 00:29:13,076 --> 00:29:15,796 Speaker 2: it's spreading this value. And so I just think of 592 00:29:15,836 --> 00:29:19,276 Speaker 2: that as it's a huge opportunity we have to actually 593 00:29:19,956 --> 00:29:22,676 Speaker 2: enhance our influence in the world and make change for 594 00:29:22,716 --> 00:29:24,516 Speaker 2: the things that we think are important. 595 00:29:24,756 --> 00:29:26,436 Speaker 1: And one of the things we might think is important 596 00:29:26,476 --> 00:29:29,036 Speaker 1: is a sense of community kind of egalitarianism. And that 597 00:29:29,076 --> 00:29:31,356 Speaker 1: gets to tip number nine, which is that if you 598 00:29:31,396 --> 00:29:33,876 Speaker 1: want to use spaces to enhance what you value, you 599 00:29:33,956 --> 00:29:36,996 Speaker 1: might want to consider promoting what's called collective efficacy. 600 00:29:37,156 --> 00:29:41,156 Speaker 2: What's collective efficacy building together? Basically? I remember when I 601 00:29:41,196 --> 00:29:43,956 Speaker 2: first started teaching my class on sustainability in the built environment. 602 00:29:44,036 --> 00:29:46,116 Speaker 2: Students in the class were like, Oh, there's this project 603 00:29:46,116 --> 00:29:47,876 Speaker 2: that's going to happen in New York City where they're 604 00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:50,876 Speaker 2: going to redo this old, abandoned rail line and make 605 00:29:50,996 --> 00:29:54,036 Speaker 2: a walkway on it that allows people to walk through 606 00:29:54,076 --> 00:29:56,516 Speaker 2: the city and experience it in a totally different way. 607 00:29:56,596 --> 00:29:58,316 Speaker 2: And this has turned into the high Line. And when 608 00:29:58,316 --> 00:30:00,076 Speaker 2: they first started talking about it, I'm like, yeah, great, 609 00:30:00,076 --> 00:30:01,836 Speaker 2: I hear about these projects all the time, and this 610 00:30:01,956 --> 00:30:04,596 Speaker 2: is just two people's dream. The people who started the 611 00:30:04,676 --> 00:30:08,196 Speaker 2: Highline literally just met at a community meeting and had 612 00:30:08,236 --> 00:30:10,276 Speaker 2: this idea for this, and then it grew from there 613 00:30:10,316 --> 00:30:12,316 Speaker 2: and it's just a really pleasant place that has been 614 00:30:12,476 --> 00:30:16,156 Speaker 2: incredibly popular. It's a success by any measure, except for 615 00:30:16,196 --> 00:30:20,716 Speaker 2: maybe gentrification, but that's a different book. And even if 616 00:30:20,716 --> 00:30:23,356 Speaker 2: you think you know Jane Jacob's another New York story 617 00:30:23,356 --> 00:30:26,916 Speaker 2: where she was really famous for her activism stopping a 618 00:30:26,996 --> 00:30:32,316 Speaker 2: highway from bisecting, And it started with people in rooms 619 00:30:32,396 --> 00:30:35,076 Speaker 2: talking about not wanting this to happen, and they protest 620 00:30:35,116 --> 00:30:38,036 Speaker 2: against it, and their group gets bigger from the protesting 621 00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:42,676 Speaker 2: and then they're able to take on bigger space change projects. 622 00:30:42,756 --> 00:30:46,236 Speaker 2: So that's collective efficacy. It feels good. It's one great 623 00:30:46,236 --> 00:30:48,676 Speaker 2: way to get things done in the world. And if 624 00:30:48,676 --> 00:30:51,476 Speaker 2: you track how these examples happen over time, it very 625 00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:55,596 Speaker 2: often starts with groups taking on a relatively small project, 626 00:30:55,676 --> 00:30:58,316 Speaker 2: and by taking on the relatively small project, they build 627 00:30:58,356 --> 00:31:02,476 Speaker 2: their capacity to do things. But they also build the 628 00:31:02,516 --> 00:31:06,636 Speaker 2: capacity of their group that makes their communities stronger. And 629 00:31:06,716 --> 00:31:09,756 Speaker 2: so this collective efficacy is not just making this nicer, 630 00:31:09,956 --> 00:31:12,316 Speaker 2: it's bringing the community together. 631 00:31:13,556 --> 00:31:16,196 Speaker 1: So that gets us to our final tip, tip number ten, 632 00:31:16,356 --> 00:31:18,756 Speaker 1: And I've saved the best for a last because this 633 00:31:18,876 --> 00:31:20,756 Speaker 1: is the idea that we can feel happier in our 634 00:31:20,796 --> 00:31:24,036 Speaker 1: spaces if we use them to promote healthy forms of 635 00:31:24,076 --> 00:31:26,716 Speaker 1: grief and nostalgia. And this is a theme that's really 636 00:31:26,796 --> 00:31:29,356 Speaker 1: woven through your book and part because of an awful tragedy 637 00:31:29,356 --> 00:31:32,076 Speaker 1: that your family suffered, and so if you're comfortable with it, 638 00:31:32,116 --> 00:31:33,196 Speaker 1: tell me about Josie. 639 00:31:33,876 --> 00:31:37,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love talking about Josie. So Josie's my daughter, 640 00:31:37,196 --> 00:31:39,276 Speaker 2: and there's stories of her throughout the book. They were 641 00:31:39,316 --> 00:31:42,396 Speaker 2: in there before she died, and I didn't want to 642 00:31:42,436 --> 00:31:46,396 Speaker 2: take them out after she died. She just died suddenly, 643 00:31:46,676 --> 00:31:49,796 Speaker 2: unexpectedly from a quick illness in twenty twenty three, and 644 00:31:50,396 --> 00:31:53,436 Speaker 2: losing a four year old as awful as it sounds, 645 00:31:53,716 --> 00:31:56,796 Speaker 2: but I love talking about Josie. I love talking about 646 00:31:56,796 --> 00:32:00,196 Speaker 2: her stories, you know, building sand castles on the beach, 647 00:32:00,276 --> 00:32:02,636 Speaker 2: or another story of Josie that's in the book is 648 00:32:02,796 --> 00:32:05,116 Speaker 2: we talked about this idea of functional fixedness. And one 649 00:32:05,116 --> 00:32:07,516 Speaker 2: of the things I'll never forget about her was she 650 00:32:07,676 --> 00:32:10,076 Speaker 2: had to have been like two or three, and I 651 00:32:10,116 --> 00:32:14,396 Speaker 2: walked into the kitchen and there's my daughter sitting at 652 00:32:14,396 --> 00:32:17,316 Speaker 2: the pantry. So it was just like two full height cabinets. 653 00:32:17,796 --> 00:32:21,156 Speaker 2: She had just opened both doors at the pantry, moved 654 00:32:21,196 --> 00:32:25,116 Speaker 2: her highchair over there, and was just sitting at the 655 00:32:25,156 --> 00:32:27,716 Speaker 2: pantry eating. So instead of like having to carry all 656 00:32:27,796 --> 00:32:30,156 Speaker 2: the food over to the table, He's like, I was 657 00:32:30,196 --> 00:32:32,356 Speaker 2: going to bring my chair to where the food is, 658 00:32:32,396 --> 00:32:34,356 Speaker 2: and then I've got all this food at my disposal. 659 00:32:34,396 --> 00:32:38,516 Speaker 2: It's amazing. So I love being able to share our stories. 660 00:32:38,596 --> 00:32:41,076 Speaker 2: I think that's one of the ways that the awesome 661 00:32:41,116 --> 00:32:44,396 Speaker 2: things that she gave to the world keep going. And also, 662 00:32:45,196 --> 00:32:48,316 Speaker 2: you know, thinking about how do we remember her in space, 663 00:32:48,356 --> 00:32:50,796 Speaker 2: because obviously this is a big thing that we try 664 00:32:50,836 --> 00:32:52,956 Speaker 2: to use our spaces for. I mean, from the Egyptian 665 00:32:52,996 --> 00:32:57,436 Speaker 2: pyramids right there to try to make somebody immortal. And 666 00:32:57,756 --> 00:33:00,716 Speaker 2: a lot of donations to university buildings are you know, 667 00:33:00,876 --> 00:33:03,196 Speaker 2: it's worth fifty million dollars for me to have my 668 00:33:03,276 --> 00:33:05,956 Speaker 2: name on this thing that's gonna still be up after 669 00:33:06,036 --> 00:33:10,116 Speaker 2: I'm not here. So I was thinking about that for Josie, 670 00:33:10,156 --> 00:33:12,716 Speaker 2: and we used to walk between my house and a 671 00:33:12,836 --> 00:33:15,796 Speaker 2: pond on campus where we would go fishing and mainly 672 00:33:15,876 --> 00:33:18,516 Speaker 2: just like throw rocks in, and she'd run around and 673 00:33:18,556 --> 00:33:21,396 Speaker 2: she would always take different paths there because she liked exploring. 674 00:33:21,476 --> 00:33:23,436 Speaker 2: And so one day we took a path that went 675 00:33:23,796 --> 00:33:25,916 Speaker 2: through an old house that the university now owns, So 676 00:33:26,036 --> 00:33:27,996 Speaker 2: basically she walked up their yard and then through some 677 00:33:28,076 --> 00:33:31,436 Speaker 2: English ivy and then hit a paved path that went 678 00:33:31,556 --> 00:33:34,676 Speaker 2: to the street. And on that path the homeowner had 679 00:33:34,716 --> 00:33:37,756 Speaker 2: like put a marble block and inscribed their name in it. 680 00:33:37,796 --> 00:33:40,556 Speaker 2: So Josie one benefit of being four is that let 681 00:33:40,636 --> 00:33:42,356 Speaker 2: hers say whatever the heck you want them to say. 682 00:33:42,436 --> 00:33:45,116 Speaker 2: So if she looks at it and she says that 683 00:33:45,236 --> 00:33:48,356 Speaker 2: says Josie's Way, I think she kind of knew the 684 00:33:48,356 --> 00:33:50,796 Speaker 2: double meaning too, right, where it's like this is now, 685 00:33:50,836 --> 00:33:53,596 Speaker 2: I've just named this path after myself. And also, Josie's 686 00:33:53,596 --> 00:33:55,556 Speaker 2: Way is like my way of being in the world. 687 00:33:55,636 --> 00:33:58,036 Speaker 2: So we wanted to do something for her in the 688 00:33:58,036 --> 00:34:01,316 Speaker 2: world that kind of remembered her, remembered her spirit, and 689 00:34:01,356 --> 00:34:04,516 Speaker 2: the idea of a Josie's Way. We made one next 690 00:34:04,516 --> 00:34:07,276 Speaker 2: to the best playground in town that just goes parallel 691 00:34:07,316 --> 00:34:09,676 Speaker 2: to it and over some creeks, and it's just a 692 00:34:09,676 --> 00:34:12,356 Speaker 2: place where kids can go down ride their bikes but 693 00:34:12,436 --> 00:34:15,596 Speaker 2: also get into the woods and explore. And it spreads 694 00:34:15,636 --> 00:34:17,916 Speaker 2: things that she cared about and would have liked. It 695 00:34:17,956 --> 00:34:20,676 Speaker 2: makes me happy, and that's you know, agency right. 696 00:34:21,236 --> 00:34:22,836 Speaker 1: I love these stories so much. And one of the 697 00:34:22,836 --> 00:34:25,716 Speaker 1: things I love kind of knowing about neuroscience is that 698 00:34:25,756 --> 00:34:27,556 Speaker 1: what you're doing is really using the part of our 699 00:34:27,596 --> 00:34:30,956 Speaker 1: brain that encodes space to kind of make these memories thicker. 700 00:34:31,236 --> 00:34:33,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I learned this after she died the neuroscience 701 00:34:34,236 --> 00:34:39,596 Speaker 2: and as our brains you know, adapted to relationships being 702 00:34:39,596 --> 00:34:44,316 Speaker 2: more important and human connections, they didn't like develop new networks, 703 00:34:44,356 --> 00:34:49,116 Speaker 2: they adapted the networks that were used to code space. Right, 704 00:34:49,196 --> 00:34:52,556 Speaker 2: So when we talk about being close and distant from somebody, 705 00:34:52,596 --> 00:34:55,516 Speaker 2: those are spatial terms, and we're having boundaries. That's a 706 00:34:55,516 --> 00:34:58,636 Speaker 2: spatial thing that has taken on kind of relationship meaning. 707 00:34:59,196 --> 00:35:02,596 Speaker 2: And you know, so again like trying to reverse engineer 708 00:35:02,676 --> 00:35:05,516 Speaker 2: that and create spaces that help us remember the person 709 00:35:05,596 --> 00:35:07,636 Speaker 2: and help spread the spirit of that person. 710 00:35:07,916 --> 00:35:10,796 Speaker 1: It's almost like we're developing these physical experiences that we 711 00:35:10,836 --> 00:35:14,676 Speaker 1: can go back to to feel of the same emotions. Yeah, 712 00:35:14,716 --> 00:35:17,436 Speaker 1: and so has recognizing this connection between our inner and 713 00:35:17,436 --> 00:35:19,756 Speaker 1: outer lives affected your happiness positively? 714 00:35:20,396 --> 00:35:22,556 Speaker 2: I think so. I think I've always paid a lot 715 00:35:22,596 --> 00:35:25,196 Speaker 2: of attention to it because I care about the physical 716 00:35:25,236 --> 00:35:26,996 Speaker 2: world and that's like kind of the area that I 717 00:35:27,036 --> 00:35:29,756 Speaker 2: work in. But I think what's really helped me is 718 00:35:30,076 --> 00:35:34,156 Speaker 2: homing in on agency, competence and connection because there's just 719 00:35:34,236 --> 00:35:36,636 Speaker 2: so much there and I think we can go a 720 00:35:36,676 --> 00:35:40,876 Speaker 2: really long way to start with these core big three 721 00:35:40,916 --> 00:35:43,796 Speaker 2: and that's been what's really helpful for me in kind 722 00:35:43,836 --> 00:35:46,316 Speaker 2: of just filtering decisions through that. 723 00:35:47,076 --> 00:35:49,636 Speaker 1: It's almost like the next time you're facing a space question, 724 00:35:49,756 --> 00:35:52,036 Speaker 1: ask yourself, how can this boost my agency? Where am 725 00:35:52,076 --> 00:35:53,836 Speaker 1: I going to get some competence and growth from this? 726 00:35:54,196 --> 00:35:55,436 Speaker 1: And how can I promote connection? 727 00:35:56,116 --> 00:35:58,356 Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to come up with the Zillow orrealitor 728 00:35:58,396 --> 00:36:02,396 Speaker 2: dot com profile that like the agency growth and connection 729 00:36:02,516 --> 00:36:04,476 Speaker 2: scores for the house. But of course they depend right, 730 00:36:04,516 --> 00:36:05,996 Speaker 2: so they depend on the person. 731 00:36:07,956 --> 00:36:10,116 Speaker 1: I hope this episode has so is a reminder that 732 00:36:10,156 --> 00:36:13,596 Speaker 1: the spaces around you matter. They're actively shaping your mood, 733 00:36:13,676 --> 00:36:15,756 Speaker 1: your habits, and even the way you hold on to 734 00:36:15,796 --> 00:36:18,196 Speaker 1: the people you love. The good news is that you 735 00:36:18,236 --> 00:36:21,276 Speaker 1: don't need to redesign your entire home to feel those benefits. 736 00:36:21,796 --> 00:36:25,596 Speaker 1: Even small changes like creating a campfire style seating area 737 00:36:25,636 --> 00:36:28,756 Speaker 1: for guests, noticing your space a bit more, or using 738 00:36:28,796 --> 00:36:31,476 Speaker 1: your surroundings to reflect what you value can make a 739 00:36:31,516 --> 00:36:34,076 Speaker 1: big difference in your happiness and in the happiness of 740 00:36:34,076 --> 00:36:36,516 Speaker 1: the people around you. And if you want even more 741 00:36:36,556 --> 00:36:38,836 Speaker 1: ideas about how to design your space to boost your 742 00:36:38,876 --> 00:36:41,236 Speaker 1: well being, be sure to check out Lydie's new book 743 00:36:41,516 --> 00:36:43,836 Speaker 1: In a Good Place, How the spaces where we live, 744 00:36:43,956 --> 00:36:46,996 Speaker 1: work and play can help us thrive, which is out now. 745 00:36:47,676 --> 00:36:49,876 Speaker 1: If you have thoughts about today's episode, we'd love to 746 00:36:49,876 --> 00:36:52,516 Speaker 1: hear them. You can email us at Happiness Lab at 747 00:36:52,596 --> 00:36:55,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin dot fm and leave us a review to tell 748 00:36:55,436 --> 00:36:58,116 Speaker 1: us what resonated. You can also sign up to learn 749 00:36:58,116 --> 00:37:00,636 Speaker 1: more about the science of happiness and join my free 750 00:37:00,636 --> 00:37:05,236 Speaker 1: newsletter on my website, Doctor Laurie Santos dot com. That's 751 00:37:05,316 --> 00:37:07,756 Speaker 1: d R l A U RI E S A n 752 00:37:07,796 --> 00:37:11,156 Speaker 1: t O s dot com. In our next installment on 753 00:37:11,236 --> 00:37:14,036 Speaker 1: Spring Cleaning Your Happiness, we'll go back to the Happiness 754 00:37:14,076 --> 00:37:17,796 Speaker 1: Lab archives to share an episode about downsizing your stuff. 755 00:37:18,276 --> 00:37:20,676 Speaker 1: We'll hear about the joy of letting go and learn 756 00:37:20,716 --> 00:37:23,716 Speaker 1: why material possessions don't boost our happiness as much as 757 00:37:23,756 --> 00:37:24,236 Speaker 1: we assume. 758 00:37:24,636 --> 00:37:27,036 Speaker 3: I mean, there are more storage units than the her McDonald's. 759 00:37:27,036 --> 00:37:30,356 Speaker 3: It's just ridiculously a symptom of a culture which has 760 00:37:30,436 --> 00:37:33,796 Speaker 3: become obsessed with possessions. So it's like this demon that 761 00:37:33,876 --> 00:37:36,436 Speaker 3: it is, this little inp in our mind telling us 762 00:37:36,436 --> 00:37:38,476 Speaker 3: to buy things and don't throw it away because it 763 00:37:38,516 --> 00:37:39,636 Speaker 3: might be valuable one day. 764 00:37:40,196 --> 00:37:42,636 Speaker 1: That's all Next time on the Happiness Lab with me, 765 00:37:42,836 --> 00:37:44,036 Speaker 1: Doctor Laurie Santos