1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and Caroline. Before we go any farther, 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: I just want to say something to you. Thank you 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: for being a friend. Are we going to travel down 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: the road and back again? Indeed, we are, Caroline, and 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: that road road starts in September, it does. This is 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: a Golden Girls road. By the way, right, this is 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: a Golden Girls road. In September is when this fabulous 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: piece of our pop culture history debut on NBC. And 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: it's so fabulous that when I randomly emailed Caroline and 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: I think, subject line, is this crazy? Should we do 13 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: an episode? This wasn't all in the subject subject lind 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: is this crazy email? What what? Should we do an 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: episode just on the Golden Girls? And you quickly emailed 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: back yes, And so I quickly got on Twitter at 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Mom's Stuff podcast and tweeted that we were going to 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: do an episode on the Golden Girls. And people were pumped. 19 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: People are so pumped. I'm pretty sure some comments included 20 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: like oh god, yes. Someone even had tweeted us a 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: photo of their Golden Girls T shirt. Stay Golden that 22 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: they said that they would wear when this episode comes out, 23 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: So you know who you are, and I hope you're 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: wearing that T shirt and I want that T shirt. 25 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: Like to imagine our listeners tailgating for this episode, just 26 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: eating a bunch of cheesecakes, so much cheesecake, wearing their 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: Golden Girl T shirts. I don't know, Lanai, but yeah, 28 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,919 Speaker 1: so okay. Golden Girls amazing TV show about four amazing women. 29 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: But it was also created in part by an amazing 30 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: woman herself, Susan Harris. She also wrote the famous abortion 31 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: episode for the show Maud, which also starred be Arthur, 32 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: and Harris created the show alongside her husband Paul Younger 33 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: Wit and tone Eat Thomas. Now, Golden Girls aired between 34 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: two other women's centric shows, Too to Seven and The 35 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: Facts of Life, and kind of surprisingly, both at the 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: time and now looking back, the whole block was actually 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: really successful among young viewers. Yeah. Initially NBC thought that 38 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: Golden Girls, since it was about for older women, would 39 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: really bring in the older viewers. Then they were like, ohho, 40 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: younger people are Younger people are interested in the lives 41 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: of older women who knew uh, And it was kind 42 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: of a risk for them because they were having a 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: real hard time with flagging Saturday night ratings. But Golden 44 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: Girls came out of the gate swinging. It premiered at 45 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: number one with an estimated forty four million viewers and 46 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: lasted one hundred eight episodes, really only because the Arthur 47 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: was finally like, guys, I gotta go see you later. 48 00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: And it earned fifteen Emmy nominations in six, lived in 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,279 Speaker 1: the top ten for six consecutive seasons, ended up earning 50 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: throughout its run ten Emmy's, and then it finally ended 51 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: its run in May, although there was a short lived 52 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: spin off show, The Golden Palace, that lasted for but 53 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: a year. Yeah, and it was on a whole separate channel, 54 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,839 Speaker 1: like NBC pulled the plug. Golden Palace opened up over 55 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: on CBS. I think, and it just didn't It just 56 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: didn't last. But I think it was Betty White. I 57 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: think it was Betty White who was saying, you know, 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: it wouldn't have been successful if even if b Arthur 59 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: had stayed and one of us had left, it wouldn't 60 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: have worked because of our chemistry because they needed all 61 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: four of them. You needed all four and were like 62 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: Captain Planet, you need all the forces combined with their 63 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: powers combined, they are for women of a certain age 64 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: in Miami. And so let's give you the rundown. Because 65 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: these are four women, three of whom are widows and 66 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: one of divorcee living together in a house in Miami. 67 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: It sounds like the most awesome real World season ever. 68 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: But the house belonged to Blanche Devereaux, who was played 69 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: by Rue McClanahan. And of course this does not come 70 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: as news to anyone who ever watched the show, but 71 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: Blanche was the saucy Southern Bell and come to find out, 72 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: she literally, I mean directly served as the inspiration for Gabrielle, 73 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: who is Eva Longoria's Desperate Housewives character, because Mark Cherry, 74 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: the writer for Desperate Housewives, also worked on Golden Girls. 75 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: And fun fact about Rue McClanahan and Blanche's signature lingerie 76 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: esque costumes, she kept a lot of them. There was 77 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: a clause in her contract that she could take home 78 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: Blanche's wardrobe, which I love. I love that too. God, 79 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: imagine how many nightgowns that woman have. You could just 80 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: live in nightgowns, which when I get to the age 81 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: and I'm a golden girl. I will be living in 82 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: a nightgown. Yeah, but but a sexy nightgown, a blanche nightgown. Um. 83 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: All right, and let's move on to Rose n Island 84 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: played by the beloved be A White. Rose was a 85 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: transplant to Miami from her beloved Saint Olaf, Minnesota, and 86 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: she is the air heavy one. Not to be confused 87 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: with a dumb person. She is certainly not dumb. She 88 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: if she is, if anything, just naive. She truly believed 89 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: everyone had the best intentions. She also took everything very literally, 90 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: so she came off a lot of times. Is just 91 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: very spacey. And it's also notable that she only had 92 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: sex with her husband and believe that they had sex 93 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: for the first time on their wedding night, and Rose 94 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: was very confused when it was happening. But then we 95 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: get to Sophia Petrillo played by a spell Getty, who 96 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: was the shop tongue Sicilian mother. She lived with the 97 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: women in according to this show, because of a stroke 98 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: that broke the quote unquote tect region of her brain, 99 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: which is why Sophia always says exactly what's on her mind. Yeah, 100 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: she always definitely has a zinger, but she also served 101 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: I mean, they all were kind of the heart of 102 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: the show. There was no single heart of the show, 103 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: but Sophia was really the character that stuck up for 104 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: the underdog a lot of times. So not only would 105 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: she send a zinger your way, but a lot of 106 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: the time on the show, as we'll get into more, 107 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: she defended a lot of the gay characters who were 108 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: either talked about or who appeared. Um. And then of 109 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: course we have to talk about be Arthur, who played 110 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: Dorothy's borne neck. She was Sophia's daughter, although you guys, 111 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: be Arthur was actually one year older than a spell Getty, 112 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: but they put a ton of makeup on all a 113 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: stell to make her appear very elderly. Yeah, and Dorothy's 114 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: backstory is that she was a teen mom who married 115 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: the baby's father and divorced him thirty eight years later. 116 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: She was very bitter, very world weary, and also afraid 117 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: of dying alone. Yeah, and spoiler. I don't know if 118 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: you can call something a spoiler when it happens decades later, 119 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: but uh so Worthy is afraid of dying alone. And 120 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: when the show ended, it basically ended with her kind 121 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: of riding off into the sunset with her new bow, 122 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: her new husband, and a lot of people criticize that 123 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: because they're like, what made the show so amazing and 124 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: so groundbreaking and so feminist and appealing to so many 125 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: people was that the show was all about these four 126 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: women who just loved each other and cared about each 127 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: other and supported each other and didn't need men. And 128 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: so the fact that be Arthur's character, who's so strong 129 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: and also has her own arsenal of singers that she 130 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: would throw up people, the fact that she was the 131 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: one who wrote off into the Sunset with a man 132 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: sort of rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. 133 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: But one more backstory, fun fact that Golden Girls fans 134 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: will get a kick out of. Originally Betty White and 135 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: Rue mcclanahan's roles were switched. Betty was intended to play 136 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: Blanche and vice versa with Ru and Rose. But Betty 137 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: really made her big break on The Mary Tyler More 138 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: Our Show playing the very sexual neighbor, and so she 139 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: really didn't want to do Blanche. She was like, Oh, 140 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to get type cast, why don't I 141 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: try out for Rows? And of course it ended up 142 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: working perfectly. It worked perfectly, And now, of course those 143 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: women are remembered for those roles that they played on 144 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: Golden Girls. But this isn't just gonna be Kristen and 145 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: me talking about our crushes on these amazing actresses and 146 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: the characters they played and how awesome the show was, 147 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: although it certainly was. But this show is so beloved 148 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: and stands the test of time because it hit on 149 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: so many important topics and really was able to talk 150 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: about kind of controversial things for the era because it 151 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: was all couched in comedy and really just like warm, 152 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: fuzzy feelings. And I wonder too if it has to 153 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:51,719 Speaker 1: do with the fact that it was coming out of 154 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 1: the mouths of women. Yes, but these older women harmless. Yeah, 155 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: this is these harmless women hanging out eating cheesecake talking 156 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: about things like aid's, Alzheimer's mental illness, chronic fatigue, syndrome, 157 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: sexual orientation, women's sexuality, feminism, abortion, divorce, and domestic violence. Yeah, 158 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: and even behind the scenes there was a lot of 159 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: There were a lot of interesting conversations going on, and 160 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: I thought that this story in particular illustrated the issue 161 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: of double standards. Really well, this is coming from the 162 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: Fascinating Entertainment Weekly oral history of the show, and they 163 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: talked to Garth Antsier, who was an NBC vice president 164 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: during the nineties when the show got underway, and he 165 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: was talking about an episode in which Rose brings a 166 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: guy home and sleeps with him and he ends up 167 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: dying in her bed, and the department wrote the show 168 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: back and said that this episode is unacceptable to air, 169 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: and they had issues with a line in the script 170 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: about noise, sexual noise coming from Rose's bedroom. They basically 171 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: told the show runners that it was okay for men 172 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: to express themselves sexually in that way, but not women, 173 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: And so Antier says, I'll never forget Susan Harris sitting 174 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: across from them in a meeting on the set in 175 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: her sunglasses saying, let me get this straight. It's NBC's 176 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: corporate position that women are not allowed to express themselves 177 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: during an orgasm, but men are. It was very tense 178 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: watch out, su Yeah. So, even even behind the scenes, 179 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: you have Susan Harris really kind of stirring the pot 180 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: and trying to push topics that are important. Women's sexuality 181 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: is important pushing them on TV well and important too 182 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: for the fact that these are women sometimes addressing sexuality, 183 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: but they're also older women. Age obviously played a very 184 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: prominent role in this. But what was so refreshing and 185 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: still is so refreshing about the show is how these 186 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: older women aren't portrayed as just quiet, grandmotherly types who 187 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: can't get around. But they're vivacious, their employed, they're doing things. Yeah, exactly, 188 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: They're portrayed as pupil and The New York Times wrote 189 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: about how the stars were frequently praised for portraying the 190 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: lives of older women as lively but also uncertain and 191 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: dramatic and passion filled, and just as much so as 192 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: those of any college sorority sister. And this is something 193 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: that Christine Braseni wrote about in the Journal Americana, the 194 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: journal of American Popular culture in two thousand ten, and 195 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: she points out how Golden Girls was not the only 196 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: or the first show to focus on women of a 197 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: certain age, but it was unique in its dialogue and 198 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: character driven plot that wasn't just focused on action or detection, 199 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: such as Angela Lansbury and Murder, she wrote, or Cagney 200 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: and Lacy, in which I also watched with mother. I 201 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: watched all of these shows with my mother, Yeah, all 202 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: of them. Murder, she wrote, was on every every time 203 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: it was on. Every time it was on, it was 204 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: on those typewriter sounds click, big old glasses that you 205 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: can now buy an American apparel. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, 206 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: it was definitely focused on these internal lives and struggles 207 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: and victories of these women. It wasn't just about solving 208 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: a whodunic case um and not to mention, She also 209 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: points out that the characters contradict a lot of the 210 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: stereotypes that we have and the binaries that we have 211 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: in mind when we think about old versus young things, 212 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: like able bodied versus physically declining, ambitious versus resigned, sexually 213 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: active versus impotent, optimistic versus pessimistic, you know, just stereotypically. 214 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: You know, in our society, we view old people as like, 215 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: all right, get out of the way. You've hit a 216 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: certain age. You're no longer relevant, you're no longer young. 217 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: We don't care about what you're saying anymore. Yeah. And 218 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: even when they did talk about aging, I mean, we 219 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: mentioned how b Arthur's character has a fear of dying. 220 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: That's a very serious kind of issue, But they are 221 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: able to approach it obviously through humor. Now, granted, as 222 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: the paper points out, these are stories focused on white, 223 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:16,599 Speaker 1: conventionally attractive, sexually active women. I mean, it's it's a 224 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: rather limited view, but nonetheless it still says something that 225 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: it has remained so popular for so long. I mean, 226 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: it started in syndication I think when it was in 227 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: maybe it's third season, and it's still racking up ratings 228 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: on Lifetime. But yeah, but it's not just racking up 229 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: ratings thanks to our boomer parents and grandparents. It's also 230 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: still drawing in younger viewers and present. He was looking 231 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: at like, Okay, why what is the appeal? And she 232 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: talks about how the show really provided an alternative for 233 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: our sort of overall fear of losing our nuclear family 234 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: members who are going to be left to live alone 235 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: and institutionalized settings, and how the relation ships of these 236 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: women and their stories really serves to quell fans fears 237 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: of aging both young and old, by offering hope that 238 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: you can still remain socially active, you can still throw 239 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: szingers like Sophia does, and that the prime of life 240 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: isn't necessarily just when you're thirty two although the character 241 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: of Blanch does definitely reflect that. Just as you can 242 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: have the same passions and uh successes as an older 243 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: person as you can when you're a younger person, you 244 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: can also have issues with your body image, with issues 245 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: of losing a perceived attractiveness, And Blanche has this sort 246 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: of recurring reluctance to accept her changing status as a 247 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: woman who's getting older, And so the audience ends up 248 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: getting a representation of many women's panic over becoming devalued 249 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: in our society for this whole thing she can't help, 250 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: which is just living life as an older, aging woman. Well, 251 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: and what's also fascinating too about the fact that these 252 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: are stories focused on the lives of older, aging women 253 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: is that, especially in recent years, there's been a lot 254 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: more conversation and focused on how gay men in particular 255 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: love the Golden Girls. And it's really I feel like 256 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: started um around the time of b Arthur's death, when 257 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: everybody one was really reflecting on Golden Girls, and you 258 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: have all of these columns and articles about its appeal 259 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: to gay men. Now, obviously there were lots of gay 260 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: references and jokes in the show, a lot of which 261 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: was thanks to the fact that there were openly gay 262 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: writers and producers on staff, including Mark Cherry, who would 263 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: go on to write Desperate Housewives. Yeah, and Michael Musto 264 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: over at out dot Com says that, and he's writing 265 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: about this very affectionately, and he says that it was 266 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: the gay show to watch, and his theory behind that, 267 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: he says, was that basically, the Golden Girls were gay 268 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: men dresses at a time when there were very few 269 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: public role models for gay men, and so he sort 270 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: of breaks them down into their different categories, and he 271 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: goes on to say that as the seasons go on 272 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: in the show and the characters become more fleshed out, 273 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: he writes that their leisure activities became gayer and gayer 274 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: as they put on shows, dabbled in the art world, 275 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: and wrote love songs to Miami Beach, all while wearing 276 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: outfits only a gay man or his mother could love well. 277 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: And on a more serious note too, I forget which 278 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: article it was UM specifically that talked about how UM 279 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: and I think it was a gay guy writing about 280 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: his love of the Golden Girls because they were this 281 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: unconventional family unit where you know, they all came from 282 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: like different walks of life. But he really was attracted 283 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: to that idea of forming your own family, which also 284 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: at this time that you know that Michael Michael Musto 285 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: was talking about from out dot com about when there 286 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: were very few public roles for gay men, this was 287 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: also a time when gay men would be forming their 288 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: own families, their own family units, because there weren't a 289 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: lot there wasn't a lot of social acceptance for them, 290 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: perhaps in their own families or in society at large. 291 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: The writer of this post in particular goes on to 292 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: call out for a similar model of communal living with 293 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: new ideas about what family means, because I mean, the 294 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: the girls, the Golden Girls were not all related. Only 295 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: be Arthur and sel Getty's characters were related, but they 296 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: formed their own family and their own support network. Yeah. 297 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: It was Lewis Pisman, writing over at BuzzFeed who said, quote, 298 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: it's a show about the construction of a chosen family 299 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: rather than a biological family, a very queer conceit. And 300 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: it's the whole thing of you know, men come and go, 301 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: good looks fade, but it's the friendships. Our friends are 302 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: our family. Yeah, and there's any rights that it's this 303 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: whole spirit of positive aging, basically that having that reside 304 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: intial support ends up being able to replace commonly accepted 305 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: notions of aging as demeaning, lonely, and static modes for existence. Instead, 306 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: when you have this sort of communal support, living situation, 307 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: older age doesn't have to be a dark time of 308 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: depression and loneliness. It's a time of friendship, healing, growth, restoring, 309 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: basically forming your own path. Making your own path. It 310 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: can also be a time of romance and activities that 311 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: reflect alternative notions of what family means. That I can't 312 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: wait to retire and move to Miami. Come on, menopause, Caroline, 313 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: I'm already do it will podcasts from Our Jammies, that's right, 314 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: from our nightgown, From our nightgowns. Well, not only were 315 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: there just general themes of the show that clearly appealed 316 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 1: to gay audiences, there's also direct recognition of gay people 317 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: in the show, of actual gay characters and plot lines 318 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:03,479 Speaker 1: involving sexual orientation, and that was pretty groundbreaking as well. 319 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: I mean there there was, for instance, the hilarious episode 320 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: of Goodbye Mr Gordon. When is it? Blanche and Rose 321 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: I believe are mistaken to be a lesbian couple. It's 322 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,959 Speaker 1: Blanche and Dorothy, so even better. Yeah, obviously with Dorothy 323 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: with her very very tall, broad shouldered husky boys Dorothy. Yeah. Yeah. 324 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: And so they end up on this talk show where 325 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: they introduces lesbians and they go along with it because 326 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: they don't they're not trying to prove a point, but 327 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: they're just trying to make sure that Rose, who booked 328 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: them on the show, doesn't lose her job and end 329 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: up being at home all the time as an unemployed person. 330 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: So you end up getting this message of positivity and 331 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: acceptance that is couched in a really funny, ridiculous scenario. 332 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 1: And fans of the show might not realize that. In 333 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: the pilot episode there was actually a gay I believe 334 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: live in cook named Coco who was supposed to be 335 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: part of a core cast. But when and Sophia came 336 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: on and still Getty, she tested so well in front 337 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: of audiences that the writers realized that they wanted to 338 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: elevate her character and that didn't really leave too much 339 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: room for all Coco. Yeah, and it's not that they 340 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: were giving him bad lines or that he wasn't a 341 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: good character. It was sort of what Michael Muster described 342 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: as an embarrassment of riches, and so leaving Coco on 343 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: the show in addition to the four women would have 344 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: sort of taken away a little bit of the luster 345 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: of these four women relating to each other over cheesecake. Well, 346 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: and not all of the depictions of gay characters were 347 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: all that progressive. I mean, there were the running gags 348 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: about Dorothy's cross dressing brother, um, but then there was 349 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: also a politician character who ended up being a transman. 350 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: And then there was also the depiction of Blanche's brother, 351 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: in which they talked directly about his sexuality and his 352 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: right to marry who he wants. And Sofia even tells 353 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: Blanche at one point that she needs just get over 354 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: being so uncomfortable with the fact that her brother was 355 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: clearly gay. Yeah, because Blanche has something to the effect of, 356 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm okay with homosexuals, but I just don't 357 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: understand why he has to marry a man. And they're like, 358 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: and I think Dorothy to that says you don't really 359 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: understand this gay thing, do you. But Sophia calms blanched 360 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: down and says, hey, why did you marry your husband 361 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: She's like, well, I loved him and I wanted the 362 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: world to know that we were committed to each other, 363 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: and Sophia wise wise zing Zinger. Sophia is like, well, 364 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: you know that's why your brother wants to get married too. Well, 365 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: isn't it kind of ironic to that? Later in another episode, 366 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: when uh Dorothy's I think it was like former college roommate, 367 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: we find out that she was a lesbian and has 368 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: a crush on Rose, and Blanche is just annoyed that 369 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: the lesbians have a crush on her. Oh, Blanch, Blanch. 370 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's another episode where Sophia serves as the 371 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: voice of reason and shrugs the whole thing off and says, 372 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: some people like girls instead of guys. And it's true, 373 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: and it's true. You heard it here, folks on stuff 374 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: I've never told you. Okay, so we've we've addressed a 375 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: lot in a short time about the Golden Girls that 376 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: they've introduced TV audiences to so many important topics, all 377 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: of them couched comfortably in humor. Um. And of course 378 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: we have to talk about how Golden Girls represents but 379 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: also kind of handles issues of feminism, women's issues, and 380 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: female archetypes. This is sort of coming from a paper 381 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: by An Kaylor who wrote about feminine archetypal patterns in 382 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: television Golden Girls in particular in the Journal of Popular Culture, 383 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: and without getting too much into psychology and personality types 384 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: and Carl Young, well, we'll leave a lot of that out, 385 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: but she brings up Carl Young in talking about the 386 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: Golden Girls. It's an intense paper. It's super intense and 387 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: super interesting. Um. But to make this a little more 388 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: digestible for our listeners, will skip ahead to basically where 389 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: she's talking about the development of the situation comedy, the 390 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: sitcom and characters and the fact that if you have 391 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: a thirty minute comedy with a laugh track, it's not 392 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: like you can delve into huge serious issues and have really, 393 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: really well rounded characters. And so we end up getting 394 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: a lot of archetypes, a lot of tropes to help 395 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: audiences quickly digest characters. UM. And she uses the example 396 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: of a show like Mash which is obviously male focused, 397 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: mail driven. It's another show that I watched all the 398 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: time with my parents growing up, but how female characters 399 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: are basically just sort of on the periphery the show 400 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: focuses on male archetypes of you know, the doctor, the priest, 401 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: the naive guy, the funny guy, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. But 402 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: as we move forward and both audiences and showrunners start 403 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: to get a little savvier, that's when we start to 404 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: see the development of women's centric shows like Mary Tyler 405 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: Moore and of course Golden Girls, and you start to 406 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: see the development of of archetypal female characters as well. 407 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: And Kaylor breaks down the Golden Girls into goddess archetypes. Yes, 408 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: I just said that, goddess archetypes. So she says that 409 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: Dorothy plays the role of the athena Minerva figure who 410 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: is the warrior the Amazon, and then Rose is the 411 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: virginal Artemis or Diana. And then we have Blanche obviously 412 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: aphrodite slash Venus, who's always seen women as competition. And 413 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: then the fourth four balance, you have Sophia as the 414 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: dual Sibyl heckache figure who is the death dealing mother 415 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: and wise woman. And she says that from episode to episode, 416 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: which is also notable that she's writing his paper while 417 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: Golden Girls is still in the air. Right, She's clearly 418 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: a Golden Girls fan. I would assume from episode of 419 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: episode this triad balanced out by Sophia, the fourth the Sibyl. 420 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: It shifts to allow the June Oh aspect of the 421 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: mother of the Gods to be subsumed, sometimes by Dorothy 422 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: as the strongest person and by Sophia as the wisest. 423 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: So if you didn't think that we could get all academic, 424 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: really intense about the Golden Girls, well we will take 425 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: you this paper and raise you a thesis because there 426 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 1: was also a thesis written far more recently comparing Golden 427 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: Girls and Sex in the City. Because that is also 428 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: a show that comes up a lot when you talk 429 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: about Golden Girls. Is that it paved the way for 430 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: a show like Sex in the City, which is also 431 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: about four women not living together but brunching together. Yeah, 432 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: but also pushing important issues that women already talk about 433 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: in their day to day lives, pushing those to the 434 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: forefront and normalizing it. Yeah, you have visible gay characters 435 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: even more visible through Stanford Blanche on our Stanford Blach 436 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: on Sex in the City. You also have the issues 437 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: of aging, sex, sex a lot dealing with sex, workplace issues, 438 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: and uh, that paper also does its own character comparisons 439 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: of Sex in the City, the Four Sex and the 440 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: City characters versus the Four Golden Girls. And you have 441 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: Dorothy as Miranda Blanche obviously as a Samantha Rose is Charlotte, 442 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: and then surprise, surprise, Sophia is Carrie. But that's not 443 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: necessarily the best fit. Yeah, I didn't think that was 444 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: the best fit. But I also thought that would fit 445 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: with Kaylor's hypothesis or you know, positing that Dorothy and 446 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: Sophia are kind of shifting back and forth in terms 447 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: of the power balance, and I think it's the same 448 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: in terms of which character they would fit into on 449 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: Sex in the City well, and seeing of the power balance. 450 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: This is when interesting thing that jumped out to me. 451 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: In Kaylor's paper, she's talking about stage direction in sitcoms, 452 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: and specifically drawing room sitcoms as they're called, like Frasier 453 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: and like Golden Girls, where they take place in living rooms. 454 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: You all see this in the Cosby's a lot, And 455 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: she says that a lot of times in these styles 456 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: of sitcoms, characters always enter the screen from the left 457 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: because it's a less confrontational position to come from. I 458 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: guess because as readers we always move from the left 459 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: of the right and things like that. But in the 460 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: kitchen scenes, Dorothy is usually posted up on the right 461 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: to emphasize her sharp, inviting comments because she is directly confrontational. 462 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: So again, I know this is getting really intense about 463 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: the Golden Girls, but hey, now you can watch it 464 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: on the even deeper levels. You certainly can, and I 465 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: know I can't wait to go home and watch it 466 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: on a deeper level in my nightgown. But um, I 467 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: mean talking about the set specifically, this it sort of 468 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: ties into the way that these women are able to 469 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: discuss certain topics, including sexuality. There's and the people that 470 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: of the people around them. But a lot of the 471 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: show is not only set in their living room, but 472 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: also in that very safe space the kitchen table over cheesecake. 473 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: And it really like it seems silly women sitting around 474 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: a table with cheesecake talking about sex. But it's not silly. 475 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: That doesn't sound silly. That sounds great. It sounds great, 476 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: and it's also what we see in Sex in the City. 477 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: But it's that safe space that gives them a platform 478 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: to talk about important issues like the sexuality of older women. 479 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: Until you have the Condoms, Condoms, Condoms episode where this 480 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: is happening in a drug store scene where all of 481 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: a sudden they're talking about this in public. So it 482 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: becomes even more of a comedic violation because they're no 483 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: longer sitting around the kitchen eating cheesecake. They're talking about 484 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: condoms in public. Yeah. Basically, the women are getting ready 485 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: to go on a cruise and they're at the drug 486 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: store and they're like, all right, do we have everything. 487 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: We've got some screen, we've got this in that, and 488 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: Blanche raises the issue of well, uh, we might want 489 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: to buy some protection to take on the trip, and 490 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,479 Speaker 1: of course the comedic nous is that Rose is like, 491 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: what do you mean protection? Were like, men, what do 492 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: we what do you mean? And they Dorothy, trying to 493 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: be subtle, points over to the display where the condoms 494 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: are and is like, it's the thing over there, and 495 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: she's like, what is it? The stockings? And finally, uh, 496 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: Dorothy just loses it and screams condoms, condoms, condoms, and 497 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: this creates a scene and then they have a confrontation 498 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: with the sort of jerky cashierman at the pharmacy, and 499 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: it just served to be an incredible moment for these 500 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: women who, yeah, previously had been in the kitchen talking 501 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: about all of their important topics away from people, away 502 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: from the public, and now here they are screaming about 503 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: condoms and sex while being older women in public. Well. 504 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: And I think it was Thomas J. West at Media 505 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 1: Commons who talked about how this was an example of women, 506 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: rather than competing sexually between each other, they consistently It's 507 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: another example of them consistently relying on their relationships to 508 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: essentially like navigate their relationships with men and also their sexuality. Yeah. 509 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: And he writes that it goes against the traditional patriarchal 510 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: norms that attempt to prevent elderly women from expressing still 511 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 1: less enjoying their bodies, especially in the public sphere. And 512 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: this is part of why Megan Currents, who was writing 513 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: over in Bitch magazine in September, says that Golden Girls 514 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: was ahead of its time. She basically wrote a love 515 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: letter to Golden Girls about this whole sexuality thing and 516 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: how awesome and open these women are. Yeah, and so 517 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: it's not so surprising then that a lot of people 518 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: think that the Golden Girl is left behind a feminist 519 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: legacy and Rue McClanahan actually talked about this in two 520 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: thousand nine because she's talking about how all the fan 521 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: mail that she gets and how she believes that shows 522 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: like Maud, which, like you mentioned at the top of 523 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: the show, Caroline had that historic abortion episode and was 524 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: actually how the Arthur came onto Golden Girls. Um, how 525 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: she believes shows like Mad and Golden Girls gave women 526 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: quote unquote permission to be freer. Yeah, she read that 527 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: she was receiving fan mail that basically said, thank you 528 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: for allowing me to act and dress like I feel, 529 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: because I mean, these women and these characters did have 530 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: some fabulous outfits on the show, And she says, this 531 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: is Rue McClanahan talking. She says, because in those days, 532 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: when you were over fifty, you were supposed to be 533 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: wearing certain types of clothes and behaving a certain way, 534 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: and women were writing saying thank you, thank you, thank 535 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: you for the freedom, for the release, for the permission. 536 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: And when b Arthur died a few years ago, a 537 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: lot of her obituaries and eulogies and just the outpouring 538 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: of love that was written about her focused on her 539 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: being a feminist icon. I think partially because of her 540 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: physicality is being that tall, broad shouldered, husky voiced woman, 541 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: the amazon of the group, and even Rue McClanahan said 542 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: thirty seven years ago, she showed me how to be 543 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: very brave in playing comedy. Although what we haven't talked 544 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: about we won't get into. But apparently be Arthur was 545 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: a touch difficult on the set. Sometimes she was forced 546 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: to be reckoned with as well. She was. She was 547 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: a serious lady. She was a very serious lady. But 548 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: you can tell that and that picture of her from 549 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: World War Two when she was a truck driving marine 550 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: exactly you know, mess with B. Yeah, B was not 551 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: to be reckoned with. And by the way, Bee was 552 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: a name she gave herself after Beatrice because she said 553 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: Beatrice would look better on a marquee than her real 554 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: name Bernice. WHOA Yeah, so B. She actually was called 555 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: B like the letter B, as a nickname for Bernice, 556 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: but she chose Beatrice and shortened it to be e A. 557 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: She did whatever she wanted. That's right, right, and it's 558 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: also been cool. This is a side note as well. 559 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: How I believe Betty White is the only surviving member 560 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: now of the Golden Girls. And she recently has gone 561 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: through her own career resurgence, not that she ever went away. 562 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: I mean, she was been working for forever, even before 563 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: the Golden Girls, but it was a couple of years 564 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: ago that there was the Facebook campaign, successful campaign to 565 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: get her on Saturday Night live hosting, and then she 566 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: started up with Hot in Cleveland, and all of a sudden, 567 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: everybody really loves Betty White. Well, Hot in Cleveland, which 568 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: is another Golden Girl's esque show, not that they're all retired, 569 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: but Betty White basically plays the Sophia role as the 570 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: older matriarch of the group, and you have these middle 571 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: aged women who were going about their lives dealing with 572 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: issues same issues, issues of sexuality, of friendship, on and 573 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: on and on, and so it's it's interesting to see 574 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: that Betty White a sort of come full circle. Yeah, 575 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: and in terms of TV, it was clearly groundbreaking and 576 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: influential in terms of paving the way for other female 577 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: ensemble shows like Sex in the City, which we've mentioned, 578 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: but also shows like Living Single, Girl Friends, Designing Women, 579 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: which came on around the same time, and also Girls. Yeah, 580 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: Designing Women man one of my favorites. I went back, 581 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,959 Speaker 1: so in in researching for this episode on Golden Girls, 582 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: I of course had to stop and watch all of 583 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: the videos of all of Julia's sugar bakers, like amazing 584 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: tirades that she goes on and just bites people's heads off. 585 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: So great, so amazing. Yeah, she's she's pretty incredible. But anyway, 586 00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: back to Golden Girls, which I think it's it's incredible 587 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: and it says a lot that it has stood the 588 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: test of time, that it is still syndicated, and that 589 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: it is still an incredibly popular syndicated show, and it's 590 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: groundbreaking just in as simplicity. And can I toss out 591 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: one final fun fact please? Okay, So for Arrested Development 592 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: fans listening, Mitch Herowitz, the creative of Arrested Development, wrote 593 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: for the Golden Girls. And one little detail in Arrested 594 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: Development that's an homage to the Golden Girls is that 595 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: the rehab facility that Lucille has to go to for 596 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: drinking problem is called Shady Pines, which is the retirement facility, 597 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,240 Speaker 1: the much loathed retirement home that they always threatened Sophia 598 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: with if she ever gets too out of line, you'll 599 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: have to go to the Shady pines. So with that, 600 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: do we open it up? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, folks, 601 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: I know that there are Golden Girls fans listening. Let 602 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: us know your thoughts. Who is your favorite Golden Girl? 603 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: Sophia was a fan favorite when the show was on TV. 604 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: I myself, I am partial to Dorothy as a tall 605 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: lady with us sometimes Leski boys. I am a short lady, 606 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,479 Speaker 1: but I love Dorothy, although I love a good Saint 607 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: Olaf story. Let's be honest, So write us all of 608 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: your Golden Girls thoughts. Mom Stuff at how stuff works 609 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: dot com is where you can send them. We cannot 610 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: wait to read them. And if you don't want to 611 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: write us a letter, you can also tweet us at 612 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got 613 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: a couple of messages to share with you right now. 614 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: So we've got a couple of letters here about our episode. 615 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: Spicy in quotes Latina's and this one comes from a 616 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: young woman who would like to remain anonymous, who says, 617 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you created that last podcast because I 618 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: think this really hits home for me, specifically when it 619 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: comes to identifying as Latina. I have a very Latina 620 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: name in. Growing up in the Midwest was really challenging. 621 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: I was born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri, and 622 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: was constantly stereotyped, even by faculty at my public school. 623 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: In second grade, I remember one of the superintendents at 624 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: my elementary school waiting for me in the morning to 625 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: help me translate for a foreign exchange student from Latin America, 626 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: completely assuming that I spoke Spanish, though never stopping to 627 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: ask if I did. These are the same people that 628 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,959 Speaker 1: had my older sibling saying lokucar racha for our school. Anyway, 629 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: I think because my mother is from Columbia, everyone assumed 630 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: that I spoke Spanish, when in reality, my mother had 631 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: only just moved to America and was concerned about her 632 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 1: own assimilation, so she practiced and spoke English seven inside 633 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: and outside of the house. I can't tell you how 634 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: obnoxious it was to constantly correct my Caucasian peers in 635 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: school and tell them in my authentic and natural Midwestern accent, no, 636 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: I don't speak Spanish, I'm not from Columbia, and still 637 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,280 Speaker 1: watch their eyes wander to my test scores in Spanish 638 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: class for comparison, as if I was keeping my fluency 639 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: a vengeful secret or something. Then when I left St. 640 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: Louis for college, and I'll I was critiqued from the 641 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: other end. Most of the time I met a Latino 642 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: Hispanic person, I would be told, quote, you need to 643 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: learn Spanish, It's part of your culture. Or I would 644 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: be told that I'm too whitewashed, and I would think 645 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: to myself, but I'm from St. Louis, I'm an American 646 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: who has been to Columbia only once for two weeks. 647 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: That makes no sense. And the weird thing is if 648 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: I'm dressed up to go out for the night, my 649 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: family or others will say that it's my Latina identity, 650 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: that's why I look so good. And when I stopped 651 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: guys from harassing on the street or don't let them 652 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 1: get away with spanking me, Yeah, that happened once I 653 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: get told my don't take crap from other people attitude 654 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: is my fiery Latina side. So when you mentioned Jessica 655 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: Alba not wanting to be labeled as Latina, I think 656 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: I can understand why I get tired of being told 657 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 1: I'm not Latina enough and being asked if I can 658 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: strike up conversation in English or Spanish. With a random 659 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: Columbian person that quote my friend so and so knows, 660 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: and being told that any part of me that that's 661 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: the positive Latina stereotype is attributed to a culture and 662 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: heritage I know very little about. It's quite a conundrum. 663 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: I love the podcast and I can't get enough of it, 664 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 1: So thank you um already. I have a letter here 665 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: from Gianna. She says your most recent podcast on Spicy 666 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: Latino Women was of particular interest to me. I live 667 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: in New York City, where I helped to run a 668 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: female driven, gender focused shakespeare company, Spicy Witch Productions dot Com, 669 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: run out of a Puerto Rican cultural center on the 670 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: Lower East Side of New York. My mother is Puerto 671 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: Rican and my father is of Italian descent. I have 672 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: a very Italian name, so much so that when I 673 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: began to try to get connected to cultural arts organizations, 674 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: I had to start using my mother's maiden name in 675 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: order to be taken seriously. Additionally, I came out like 676 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: my father and have much lighter coloring than my mother. 677 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: People would often mistake my mother for my nanny. Growing up. 678 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 1: I don't speak Spanish, as my mother experienced so much 679 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: racism from my father's side of the family. She didn't 680 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: wish for me to be any more different than I 681 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: already was. Sometimes I feel as if I float between cultures. 682 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: Auditioning in New York is very in interesting. I'm considered 683 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: what the industry calls ethnically ambiguous to light for some things, 684 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: too ethnic looking for other things. I'm often called not 685 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: Latina enough to audition for Latina roles, and I've stopped 686 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: trying to audition for these types of roles as I'm 687 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: often made to feel like I'm a fake. What I 688 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: hate even more is, upon hearing of my ethnic background 689 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: is the slew of assumptions made about me with that mix. 690 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: You must have a temper. Wow, what a spicy mix. 691 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: You must be super passionate. Uh Puerto Rican in Italian, 692 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,479 Speaker 1: we better watch out. That must be the Puerto Rican 693 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: in you. I love both my cultures. I love being 694 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: Puerto Rican. I'm tired of having to prove myself and 695 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: fit into this physical preconception of what it is to 696 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: be Puerto Rican, especially by other Puerto Ricans. My own boyfriend, 697 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 1: who is Puerto Rican, has made comments to me about 698 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: helping me be a real Puerto Rican. All of this 699 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: is highly offensive. I am lucky enough that my mother 700 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: is a fierce role model who has helped me navigate 701 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: all of this. However, I would like to note I 702 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: recognize my own white privilege and all of this. Unlike 703 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: my mother, who has had to deal with blatant racism 704 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: and is in a constant state of self cultural censorship, 705 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: I do not have to do this. I am white, 706 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: and therefore I'm allowed to claim my ethnicity without any real, 707 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: lasting social or economical repercussions. Wow. So thank you for 708 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: your story, Joanna, and thanks to everybody who's written in 709 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: to us. Mom stuff at how stuff work dot com 710 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: is our email address and for links to all of 711 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: our social media as well as our blogs, videos, and 712 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: all of our podcasts, including this one. Head on over 713 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com or more 714 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics does it how 715 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com