00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And today we're answering your listener questions. That's right, buddy. I had to pull a quick little audible there, resize my windows so that I could have everything the proper size. I like to have you a certain size when we record here. I heard you like me small. That's what I heard. Well, you know what? The good Lord made me 6'5, Matt. You can't shrink me too much. Are you 6'5? 00:00:29 Speaker 2: I thought you're 6'4. Do not short sell me, sir. If anything, I'm 6'6, and I undersell it with the 6'5, as to not frighten people. 00:00:37 Speaker 1: So because I'm the record keeper. Wait a minute. Let me pull this up here. You're 6'5. Okay. Come on. Wait, you think you're 6'6? So I literally checked your driver's license because I have to upload our documentation to open certain accounts and things like that. So I literally, I know that I've got a file here that says Joel ID, and it's the mustache-less Joel. And man, let me tell you what. You've aged well, my friend. 00:01:00 Speaker 2: The girls on the cross country team saw my mustacheless picture the other day. It's on my badge, like my coach's badge. And they were like, what? We've never seen you like this. So it's only been a year that I've had this thing. But at this point now, more people know me as a mustachioed gentleman. 00:01:19 Speaker 1: Well, certainly the cross country team. Yeah, no, I think I do personally. It's also, you can compare it to like, let's see, this ID. Don't show it to the people on YouTube. No, I can't. Well, I don't even know how to show it, but I don't know when it was created. Oh, issued. 2020. It was only two years ago. That's a much older picture, though. That was a reissue. Oh. I swear that picture is probably like 15 years old. I was going to say, you look like a baby. 00:01:45 Speaker 2: Because they let you keep using the same picture, and I'm like, well, I'm not going to the DMV. 00:01:50 Speaker 1: All right. Sorry, sorry. I feel like we were way off track. We did not stay disciplined like we tried to do. This is an Ask How to Money episode. We're going to get to those questions. Like, for instance, whether or not Trump accounts... are a scam or not. I think a listener, that's basically what he's getting at. Another listener, he's looking to forge some shared family values so that him and his wife can direct money towards some shared goals. Another's wondering if she should have multiple 401ks. TLDR, you can't contribute more if you have multiple 401ks, but that's not what she's asking. But we'll get to that plus more. 00:02:23 Speaker 2: Is it like a main 401k and a side piece 401k? Should we be worried about this listener? 00:02:28 Speaker 1: You still have the combined... $ 24, 500 cap. That's not what she's asking, though. It's okay to cheat on your original 401k. We'll get into that. We'll get into all that and more during today's episode. 00:02:40 Speaker 2: Really quick, I just wanted to mention our friend and fellow personal finance enthusiast. 00:02:46 Speaker 1: He's smarter than us, too. Let's just be honest. Jesse Kramer, he wrote an article. Oh, yeah, he is. Yeah, he's definitely smart. 00:02:53 Speaker 2: He wrote an article on his blog recently about going on a trip with some friends and how the hot tub was the center of the weekend. They were out in the woods having a good time, and it was cold. It's not cold right now, so I think this was many months ago when he took the trip. But the hot tub was the place to be. And so he comes home, and he starts making plans to put in a hot tub at his house. And this is the kind of thing that I do, Matt. This is the way my brain works is if it was fun there, it's going to be fun here. I should pony up. This is going to be worth it. I need that in my life on a regular basis. I have come this close to buying a hot tub about a dozen times. Actually, one time, made the purchase on Costco's site for one of those fancier inflatable hot tubs. And then before I even set it up, I said, no, Joel, this is not right. Do not do this. Like, you're not going to get the use out of this hot tub that you think you are. Was that your inner voice or was that your wife's inner voice? It was a. 00:03:50 Speaker 1: Little bit of both. Yeah, she was kind of like, what are you doing here? And it's true. 00:03:54 Speaker 2: Like the joy I get from the hot tub is when I'm somewhere else. It is not having the hot tub in my backyard. I don't think that I don't think I would use it nearly as regularly as I think when I'm in a hot tub somewhere else. 00:04:07 Speaker 1: There's a different vibe when you're on vacation. 00:04:09 Speaker 3: Right. 00:04:10 Speaker 1: And so if you're on a trip somewhere, especially you said it was cold. If there's like snow on the ground all around you, come on. Like you can't beat the feng shui. I know, that's not how you say it. It's not the feng shui. But like the balance, right, of the hot and the cold. It's a part of why ice cream, it's why affogatos are so good, right? You got the hot, you got the cold. Something about that is magical. You're not getting that down here. No, you're not. When is the last time we had snow all around us where we live? It doesn't happen. 00:04:38 Speaker 2: So I guess we got like a snow last year, but even that's rare. But yeah, so just kind of, a word to the wise to think a little bit longer before you make a big purchase, just because something was fun on vacation, doesn't mean you're going to want it like, Oh, we had a, a smoothie maker or a margarita like machine at the Airbnb we stayed at. Let's get one for the house. And it just, it never ends up being as joyful at home as it was on the trip. So just enjoy it for what it was. Don't, don't overspend. And sometimes that's, I think for a lot of people, that's the money they often really regret spending because, is based on something they experienced on a trip, and then they try to bring that back into their everyday life. And I'm not saying it's not occasionally intelligent. I just think you need to think long and hard before you spend the money. I think what it is, it is like carving out the time to be able to do that, right? Because why don't you pull out the margarita maker? Why don't you spend more time in the hot tub? Well, it's because you haven't dedicated the time. And I guess the thought is that by purchasing this, well, there is a level of financial accountability now where I will do this thing. But, yeah, that's a slippery slope as to whether or not you're going to follow through and do the dang thing. 00:05:47 Speaker 1: So, yeah, I get it. I don't struggle with this quite as much as you do. I can see, though, where you're just like, oh, man, you're speaking my heart language right here, Jesse Kramer. 00:05:57 Speaker 2: I have done that before and I have almost done that many times as well. And I just when I look back at the purchases where I'm like, man, I wish I had the money. back instead of that item. It is often because I spend in that kind of way. It's that kind of purchase. 00:06:11 Speaker 3: Okay. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: Related note. Have you been, have you been doing your sauna? 00:06:15 Speaker 2: Uh, I have just less frequently, but we were, Emily and I were in a rhythm in the fall and now the fall is rolling back. I think we're going to get into it again. Summer just being out of town and stuff. We weren't doing it as often. but I love the rhythm and I can't wait to get back into it. Okay. 00:06:30 Speaker 1: I can see similarly why, where that would be more attractive when it starts cooling down as opposed to right now. It just sounds, it's like, that's my life. What are you talking about? Like, why would I want to then get into concealed, like a constrained box with limited mobility, but just to get folks up. Consistently in the 90s. I'll go to the sauna more regularly. Yeah, just to catch folks up, Joel got another item from Costco that he kept this time. It was from Costco, right? It was, of course. It was like $ 2, 000, $ 3, 000 for just a nice wooden sauna. 00:06:58 Speaker 2: It was a $ 2, 600 sauna on sale for $ 2, 000. There you go, baby. It's been well worth it, yeah. 00:07:04 Speaker 1: Nice. 00:07:04 Speaker 2: And some of them, sometimes the additional expenses, you have to pay an electrician to do the really intense wiring because of the power draw. 00:07:13 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:07:14 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:07:14 Speaker 1: This one was much cheaper to install because it's infrared, but those traditional saunas, if they're big enough and stuff, you might just be looking at the price of the sauna, and you're not looking at the secondary cost of how much it's going to take to install it. Yeah, see, I would be more likely to install one. Have you seen these saunas that are wood-fired? It's like this picturesque spot, and there might be a bunch of tree houses nearby, and they're in the woods of somewhere up in Canada, and it's overlooking some valley, and there's an outdoor hot tub. Oh, no, not sauna. I guess it's a hot tub, outdoor hot tub. And then it's being fueled by a wood-burning stove as it circulates through. Those are so cool. I mean, see that, when I see that, I think, oh, I need that, which is the least practical thing to actually get your hands on. 00:07:58 Speaker 2: What you need is like a Scandinavian second home with one of those. That way, when you go there, you can use it and you can let your best friend use it sometimes too. 00:08:05 Speaker 1: You want to go in together? Get ourselves an Airbnb in Norway. Yes, we just may. The most expensive purchases of our lives here, and we committed to it in front of all our listeners. Accountability. That's what it's all about, baby. All right. Listener questions. You can send us your listener voice memo. Just record it on your phone. Send it over to us at howtomoney.com forward slash ask. There are simple instructions there, but literally it's just recording a hopefully at most minute 30 voice memo and saying your name, where you're from, because that's fun as well. I tend to look up maybe where folks are from and get a feel for what they got going on. It helps me to, like, literally get in their shoes a little bit, you know, Joel? 00:08:43 Speaker 2: Now Matt knows everything about this first listener, his age, how many tattoos he has. 00:08:49 Speaker 1: It's kind of weird. 00:08:50 Speaker 2: Should we get to Mike's question, though, Matt, about money, values, and trying to get on the same page with his wife? Hey, Matt. 00:08:57 Speaker 4: Hey, Joel. This is Mike from Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Long-time listener here. In fact, I remember hearing about the podcast from a plug on Stuff You Should Know a while back. Anyways, fun question for you two. What exercise or exercises do you recommend for couples who are trying to discover their shared values together? I'm specifically looking to better align our cash flow around these shared values so that our spending and our saving habits can mirror them. A little bit of background information. We have one toddler, an aging dog. 00:09:36 Speaker 1: We own our home. 00:09:37 Speaker 4: We have our finances consolidated into a few shared accounts and we share credit cards. We use Monarch to track our finances. But probably the most helpful information for you two in answering this question, I happen to be super clear on my own personal values. I've naturally thought about them over the years. I've journaled, et cetera. for several years. My wife isn't this way. It's not that she doesn't know what they are deep down. It's just that when in conversation, it seems like hers are a little bit more fuzzy and she's trying to work her way toward them. I love everything you guys do on the podcast. Thanks so much for all the help and advice over the years and, uh, look forward to hearing you take my question. Thanks so much. 00:10:26 Speaker 1: All right. What's your, what's your advice for Mike's fuzzy wife? He called her fuzzy. Things are a little bit fuzzy. Uh, well, okay. Before that, should we touch on the stuff you should know? 00:10:38 Speaker 2: Josh and Chuckers break, uh, much younger man back then. 00:10:41 Speaker 1: This was, this, this, yeah, yeah. It looked more like Joel's ID, um, that I have saved on my computer. I was closer to that than I am now, for sure. Dude, that was such a big break for us. And again, this is a part of the how to money slash poor not poor, because that's what the show used to be called back in the day. This is part of our history. This is lore. But we got a big break and we met up with Josh and Chuck and they had us in at the Yowhart Studio and we sat down with them and chatted for a few minutes. And it was a big deal because they were and still are one of the biggest podcasts of all time. Like they are literally like, I think in the top five. as far as biggest shows, most downloads. I think they hit the billion download mark before I think anybody else did. Yeah, I think they're right behind us, which is great for them. I'm so proud of them. Yeah, one of these days, guys. But also, we were crazy nervous. I mean, we kind of based our show on their show. Like, that was one of the things we talked about. It's like, man, there's two friends sitting down. They're having a good conversation. They're talking about something that matters. And we thought we could do that with money. But then, yeah, also, that was... one of my top podcasts that I listened to. And so, man, I was so stinking nervous. I couldn't even speak correctly. They were like celebrities to you to a certain degree. Oh my gosh, absolutely. That's funny. Yeah, I wasn't nearly as... Your microphone sounded like garbage. So like, it was a terrible clip. I don't know what had happened. I don't want people to try to go and find it or anything because it's terrible. It's so bad, I'm sure. That was a great, great opportunity for us. 00:12:08 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:12:08 Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. 00:12:09 Speaker 2: I mean, we've been doing this for nine plus years now, which is... Big thanks to them and Stuff Media and iHeart. Let's get to Mike's question. And there's so much to dig into here. I think one of the things he's highlighting, Matt, is differences in personality. Some people are journalers. Some people are detail-oriented. Some people love spreadsheets, data, making projections, stuff like that. 00:12:32 Speaker 1: That's you, right? 00:12:34 Speaker 2: You and I are not– we have a lot of similar interests, but we're very, very different people. I would say the same is true– for my wife and I. And it sounds like the same is true for Mike. And I'm probably more like Mike's wife. And my wife is probably more like Mike in terms of their attention to detail and their thoughtfulness and looking ahead and looking forward. And you might think that I would be like that hosting a personal finance podcast, but I'm not. And I think that's part of what makes this kind of interesting show, Matt, is because we do have different personality, different wiring And I think it's more than anything for people who are like Mike's wife and who are like me, it's just helpful to kind of like recognize that and see how we're wired, know how it is that we function because then it allows us the ability to grow in healthy ways towards a more organized and functional direction without changing who we are. So I think there can be growth as an individual in that without, in your relationship to money and how you think about your money values at the same time while you're not changing your stripes. 00:13:40 Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah. And speaking to what he had specifically done, right? Journaled, currently is journaling for, and he's done that for years. I mean, I think that is why he's able to identify what it is that he personally values and kind of what moves the needle the most for him. And maybe that's something his wife hasn't done. It sounds like he's maybe there's a little bit of frustration, just the fact that when they sit down and when they have conversations around this, maybe they don't get very far because she hasn't dedicated the time to doing that. But certainly be patient and give her the space to be able to do this. But I would absolutely encourage her to journal, to write, and to think through Um, what it is that she values, because by doing that, then when the time comes and they're out on a date night, Mike, you and her, you know, y'all, you, you will be able to talk about it and have productive conversations as opposed to it, perhaps, you know, maybe feeling a little bit one-sided. Um, and so I, I think that might be difficult because, you know, Mike saying, well, I want shared values. But even that is kind of a fuzzy, vague term, right? Like maybe his wife is like, no, no, you are fuzzy. Like, what does it mean to have shared values, right? And so to that end, I would say, I think I would encourage you to get really practical and say, okay, let's eliminate shared values. What does that even mean? Instead, let's anchor it to time. Let's anchor it to the calendar. And you can start with the real small and kind of more immediate things where you're like, hey, This year, 2026, do we want to be able to go on a weekend trip, a weekend getaway? Well, okay, what does that mean? How do we plan for that? How much money do we need to have set aside? Or you can even zoom out and say, do we want to retire someday? What does that look like? at what age would we like to do that? How much money then would we then need to plan backwards and start running some numbers? And that kind of informs how much money you put aside today, right? And so I think if you can identify certain things like that in timeframes, like maybe for her, it's not like these big lofty goals, but maybe it's more time focused that can help her to realize, oh, well, if we want to do that, then yeah, we need to start doing these things now. And I think that that might be helpful. And obviously those are two extremes, but. Somewhere in the middle, it's like a home purchase or funding kids to college. It's like, okay, well, if we want that in eight years from now, or, you know, he's a toddler. So 16 years from now, what does that look like that can help inform some of the decisions you're making today in the day-to-day without it feeling too big and lofty, I think? 00:16:15 Speaker 4: I think. 00:16:15 Speaker 2: I think too, there's a certain amount of curiosity that's helpful as the other partner who has a little more insight, individual insight on this front. And you can help with your curiosity instead of your judgment. So sometimes I think it's easy to say, why doesn't my partner think about money the way I do? Or why do they view it this way? And there's usually negative judgments about that. Instead, if you can take a more curious bent towards your partner and ask helpful prompting questions, that are just inquisitive and wanting to know them more, that can shed a lot of light. Oftentimes there's family of origin stuff that's tied up in the way that you think about money. And it's really hard to disentangle that on your own. You need the help of somebody else to say, okay, that sounds like it stems from something from way back. What do you think that is? And those kind of helpful invitational questions is a way that you can understand your wife better, what makes her tick. And I think it's going to help you guys find a way to work together moving forward in a better way. And just, it's going to prompt her to understand a little bit more that some of the unexplored areas of how her emotional bent impacts her thought process on finances. So I think there's, if you're thinking of like an example, Matt, somebody who grew up in like, let's say a financially secure household, they could see something like a $ 30, 000, uh, emergency fund as cash that's not doing anything useful, almost like wasted effort, right? And somebody who grew up in a house where money was much tighter thinks of a $ 30, 000 emergency fund as like, oh my gosh, I'm crushing it. Like, I don't need to do anything else. This is better than I've ever had it. And so so much of how we view money and where we are and what we want comes from things that happened early on to us. And it's, it's, these are, there's often these invisible threads that are hard for us as the individual looking back to actually identify. And I think a partner with some good curiosity can really help to kind of shine a light on those threads so that you can see and that you can maybe not sever them, but you can at least then understand kind of what's making you tick. 00:18:32 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:18:32 Speaker 1: At least identifying them. 00:18:33 Speaker 4: Right. 00:18:33 Speaker 1: And that's not something, I mean, I'm not a, marriage and family therapist like your wife is, Joel. But I would dare to say that that takes a lifetime to identify those threads, to figure them out, in some cases to try to sever them. But I really like what you said, though, about helping her to figure out what those values are by asking questions because maybe she has sat down. Maybe she has dribbled and she's just like, is something wrong with me? Like, how come I can't come up with something? And like, maybe I'm not able to talk about this because I don't care. Like, I don't know. You start asking some bigger questions as opposed to like, hey, like just choosing something like you really light up when we talk about this or anytime we go to the mountains, like you love the mountains. What if we, what if we got a mountain house someday? Like, would that be something you're interested in? And okay. What does that look like? That's a financial goal that we could pursue. Okay. Well then how does that impact our day-to-day spending? 00:19:27 Speaker 4: Right. 00:19:27 Speaker 1: And I don't like that. I started with that example because it seems very big and as opposed to like smaller, but even smaller things, right? Like you go out to eat and you're like, all right, maybe, We're doing pretty good. Maybe next date night, we'll go to this like Michelin star restaurant and you go there, you drop a few hundred bucks. You get back in the car at the end of the date night and you're like, I don't know. What do you think about that? And you're like, I'm still kind of hungry. Okay, well, maybe it wasn't like it wasn't money well spent, right? And so like, that's a great little discovery for y'all to talk about. And or maybe you get back the entire time, you're just tasting and the chef's coming out and you're having the best conversation, you're talking to each other, you're talking to the chef and, and you get in the car and you're just saying, Oh, I cannot wait to do something like that again. Well, That's amazing. You've just discovered something not only about yourself, but about each other as a couple, and then find ways to funnel more dollars into the things that light you up in the here and now, right? That's the craft beer equivalent, or the more long-term thing, which is perhaps retirement or other more longer-term goals that you might have. But you can figure some of these things out, not by assuming, but like you said, Joe, by asking, imploring, asking why. If they push back, against something, right? Like the, the nice restaurant, even if they're like, no, I don't want to do that. Well, how come? It's like, well, I just like a good burrito. It's like, Hey, okay. Like let's, let's go do that. And we'll get margaritas. You know, there's just one of the $ 20 burritos, you know? Yeah, exactly. So, um, I think that's the approach that I would take. 00:20:53 Speaker 2: I like the idea of them going through maybe the money mission statement together that we've crafted. 00:20:57 Speaker 1: We can put that in the show notes. 00:20:58 Speaker 2: Of course. I think that's a great place to start and ask some, some thought provoking questions. And then maybe even some fill in the blank questions that you guys could ask of one another and specifically that Mike could ask of his wife. And so I was thinking like, money makes me feel what? Like fill in the blank. Or the most important thing money can provide is fill in the blank. And I think these are, or what worries you most about money right now? Like these are all sorts of starting point questions that will really help you understand her. And maybe she doesn't have it on the tip of her tongue and she has to think about it for a while. Some people are verbal processors, some people aren't, right? So she might say, I need to sit on that for two days, but ask her to sit on it for two days and to come back to you with it. Because I think, yeah, you're going to learn a lot from that. For instance, my wife knows that early in our marriage, when I answered the question, money makes me feel, it would be worried. Most of the time would be my response, right? Even if we're doing well, I feel worried about it. And I've changed a lot and I've grown a lot in that. And that's not the answer I would give today. But then she knew how at least to approach me in money conversations because she knows kind of my fraught relationship with money based on my family history. And so instead of then judging me and thinking that like, I'm an idiot who can't get it together, she was able to sympathize with me and we're able to work together in that and make progress. And so I think those kinds of questions will give you a window into how your spouse is thinks about money and then how you guys can move forward together. 00:22:32 Speaker 4: Totally. Yeah. 00:22:33 Speaker 1: Um, my, my, my only word of caution to me, to me, that feels like a 2000 or a 3000 level class. We love talking about money, right? Like the subject in and of itself. Um, my only concern is that if she does not have any desire to talk about it, that focusing on the thing itself might be a turnoff, which is why, and Mike's going to know this, right? He's listening to this and he's probably like, yep, that's her or nope, that's not her, right? Like one, one of these who paths I bet will probably resonate with him and how he knows his wife. So maybe he's just like, that's exactly what I need to do. Like, those are exactly the kind of questions we need to have. She loves philosophy. She loves getting to the core of things. That's what we need to do. If that's not her, I think starting with what it is that money allows you to do, right? The other aspects of life. From an angle. From a different angle. Exactly. So is it, is it restaurants? Is it a little vacation? Is it being able to have more of your time back to yourself in older age? Like, And so exploring one of those two approaches, I think, can be a way to get to the core of it, whether you go directly to it or if you take the more sort of roundabout way. Or is it a hot tub? Maybe it's a hot tub. What's a hot tub? 00:23:42 Speaker 2: Sometimes the answer is hot tub, Matt. Sometimes it is. Not for everyone, though. Let's get to more questions, including we'll get to one about Trump accounts, whether that's like the pros and cons, essentially, of investing in that account. And then we'll have a question to... about 401k employer match contributions. We'll get to that and more right after this. 00:24:11 Speaker 1: All right, buddy, we are back. And let's now take a question from a listener who is looking to snag some free money from family. 00:24:19 Speaker 3: Hey guys, Jordan here from Texas. Another guy gave his craft beer equivalent recently. And I think my craft beer equivalent is a pricier daycare from my son. I don't know if that actually counts, but that's where some of our excess dollars are going to. And on that note, I set up a Trump account to get the $ 1, 000 of seed money for that. Still pretty wary of the whole process, but. 00:24:56 Speaker 3: Family can contribute and my father-in-law is very interested in that what are your guys thoughts on allowing others to invest in your children's future even if you don't add to the account thanks guys. 00:25:18 Speaker 2: Clearly you just tell the father-in-law to give you the money and your your offspring, they can handle their own. 00:25:23 Speaker 1: Future, right? That's the right answer to that. Have you heard of inheritance? Why are you trying to skip a generation here, father-in-law? Come on. He'll probably say the same thing. He'll be like, well, on that note, I guess you can just wait until I die. Fancy daycare? You think that's a reasonable splurge? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I do too. 00:25:42 Speaker 4: 100%. 00:25:43 Speaker 2: I just, I think identifying it and knowing what it is is so powerful. Because then when there's other stuff and you're like, I'm not prioritizing saving as much for their college because I'm prioritizing the awesome daycare experience now. It helps you understand. You know your mindset, why you're doing it. And as long as you have reasons and you're not trying to make everything you craft beer equivalent, you're good to go. 00:26:07 Speaker 1: By the way, we didn't even introduce the beer. What are you drinking today? I was drinking cold brew. You got more cold brew? I love it. Me too. I've got a nice latte over here, by the way. 00:26:17 Speaker 2: There was some Wall Street Journal article about how we're overhydrating now. And I wanted to reach my hand through the computer and punch the person who wrote that article because I take a lot of pride in my personal hydration. And I don't think it's possible to drink too much water. 00:26:32 Speaker 1: So I didn't even. Oh, it is. Screw the data, Matt. I'm drinking four Nalgene's a day no matter what. So going back to Jordan's craft beer equivalent, the fact, I totally resonate with that because, and we talk about this sometimes, how When you're younger, you're willing to slum it, right? Like you're a bachelor and things are rough, man. You're, you know, I don't know. There's many things I was willing to do, but then you get married, right? And you and your partner are like, you know what? We can still save a lot of money by doing this. But then I think once you have kids, there's something about having kids and wanting to give them every possible opportunity that comes along. You want to make their life even better than yours. 00:27:11 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:27:13 Speaker 1: You learn about things that you've never even heard of before. And you start thinking, oh, maybe there's an opportunity. Like we were just talking about this yesterday. It's like some program up in front of ours up in Maine. And it's just like, I've never even heard of that before. His daughter is going to love that. And I don't know, just cool things like that. And being financially savvy and responsible early in life gives you some of those options to do some of that. But it's a fine line because you also don't want to spoil your kids too. But, but yeah. 00:27:37 Speaker 2: And on the Trump accounts note, I'm really proud of Jordan for snagging the free money. Trumpaccounts.gov is the website. It is open for business now. I get kind of his hesitation a little bit too, because it's a weird thing. It's a new account. And you're like, the website just launched. It just, it feels a little awkward to go through the hoops. But if you're, if you had a kid born last year or this year, or you're having a child next year or the year after, your kid qualifies for the free thousand dollars. If your kid is born January 1st, 2029, sorry, you won't qualify any longer. Or if you had a child born December 31st, 2024. 00:28:14 Speaker 1: But kids born in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028 qualify for $ 1, 000 of seed money. Okay. 00:28:22 Speaker 2: What though would you say to the father-in-law if he's saying, I want to put money, save money for your child's future. But what if he's like, I want to do it in the Trump account. And you think, that another account saving and investing in another way might be superior? Do you have the conversation or you just let the father-in-law do what he wants? I, oh, you're talking about 529 accounts. 00:28:44 Speaker 1: So yeah. I'm just saying. I would be, I would like right out of the gate and say, that's awesome. We'll set up the account. We've got the seed money. I'll share the link with you. Here you go. 00:28:55 Speaker 3: Right. 00:28:56 Speaker 1: But it's, oh my gosh, considering his craft beer equivalent, which is kind of nicer, fancier childcare. Makes me think that they care about higher ed. I guess it's not a perfect Venn diagram of overlap there. But gosh, Jordan, I think that you probably are a likelier candidate for your kid going to college, which means if that's a priority, having that conversation with your father-in-law and just saying, yeah, that's great and all, but this is a higher priority. Let's fund his college as a, is it a boy or a girl? I don't even know. Let's fund the kid's college as opposed to setting, because Trump accounts are A retirement account, essentially. Or like a nest egg account. Well, that is one of the other things that happens. to be mentioned is you and your father-in-law have to be comfortable with the idea that at the age of 18, your child gets full control of this account. And that is depending on how you think, either a pro or a con. And with the 529 money, you can either use it for higher education or turn it into a kind of money for your Roth IRA that's going to essentially be retirement dollars, which is another reason I think I like that account a little bit more, especially if your child is likely to go to college. Well, yeah. There's different pros and cons to both of them. And one of the pros of going with a 529, if you are wanting to save for the kids' college, your family, they can contribute to that as well. But the tax benefits. So any growth that's in that 529 that you use towards higher ed, is tax-free as opposed to money that you take out of the Trump account is taxable. Um, and so there's just a, there's a more, there's more, he's going to be able to retain more of those funds as opposed to having to pay taxes on them where he or she to use that for college. And on that note, wait, he's from Texas, correct? He's from Texas. Texas doesn't have an income tax in Texas. Uh, 529 accounts are not great. So I will say if you have not yet opened a 529 account, don't go with... Things aren't always bigger in Texas. Your account there in Texas is going to be smaller, actually. Actually, things are bigger in Texas. The fees that you're going to pay because the investing options in Texas and the Texas 529 are not good. And you're not receiving any state local tax benefits. So go with one of the gold plans that Morningstar has uh, rated, like I know Utah's is up there, uh, but there are plenty of other Ohio. They're all great. Yeah. Yeah. 00:31:27 Speaker 2: There's plenty of other great options out there. One other thing that is worth mentioning. If you do the Trump account, I think, uh, the, the way those smart, savvy people who have, who've thought about what eventually is going to happen with their Trump account. The intelligent thing to do is once your kid turns 18 is to convert that money into a Roth IRA at that point in time and pay the tax. You might want to do it over the course of two, three, four years in order to minimize your overall taxation levels. But at that point, that is what makes the Trump account the most effective. So I just want that to be on your radar on your father-in-law's radar because if you have, let's say, 40, 50 grand by the time your child turns 18, think about how big that's going to be at age 65. And maybe it gets liquidated before then. But that is ultimately what will make it a better account is if you Rothify it once you hit the age of 18. So you don't look a gift horse in the mouth. You say, thank you, father-in-law. 00:32:28 Speaker 1: You're amazing. Hey, the Trump account's awesome. And I like this and this about it. We're also thinking 529 account makes sense for him. And did you know that it could turn into a Roth and blah, blah, blah? I would just have that conversation and say, if you think that account is better for your family, for your child, see if he would fund that instead. Because both are having the same kind of impact. One is just doing it in a slightly more optimized way. 00:32:52 Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it. 00:32:53 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Let's not forget too about the, if your kid, for folks who have kids that are a little bit older, but are under 10, they get the $ 250 Dell philanthropic donation as well. So yeah, all that to say these accounts, they're legit. It's not a scam. There's a lot of stuff in the current administration that are scams. This is great. I mean, up until now, everything about this is totally above board. I will say I signed up over the summer and did it online. And then I went and checked. When you go to the trumpaccounts.gov website, it tells you to download an app. And so I downloaded that app, entered my information, and it's like, we don't see anything. They don't have any records. So I I logged online and it's still, it says it's still processing. So I'm not totally sure what that means, but cause two of my kids, yeah, two of my kids qualify for the, and one of yours qualifies for the, uh, the local or the, the two 50, which takes some local considerations, your zip code, median income, all that sort of stuff. But, uh, but yeah. Uh, who's that Jordan? 00:33:58 Speaker 2: Last thing to be said on this, too many people who prioritize kiddo investment accounts ahead of their own retirement, And the thing is, if you have your own Roth IRA, your own HSA, don't skimp on those to put money into a child's investment account because you can always pull contributions out. There's ways to access some of those dollars early to benefit your child. Don't harm your own retirement future and not save enough there in order to maximize your savings for them in a Trump account or a 529 plan. 00:34:30 Speaker 1: That's right. All right. Let's hear from a listener. She's rolling with a couple 401ks. Let's hear a question. 00:34:36 Speaker 5: Hey, Matt and Joel. This is Renee from Lancaster, PA. Quick question. Do other states go by their postal abbreviation or is it just Pennsylvania? Anyway, I've been listening for a long time and I appreciate your down-to-earth financial takes as well as your best friend dynamic. My question is, I work for a company whose parent company was recently acquired by another company. At this point, my job is not changing, so I'm not worried about job security right now, but I do have to make a decision about my 401k in the next few weeks. The 401k match with the new company is the same as the old 6%, and I've already been contributing the match plus some. Should I roll over the whole 401k to the new account, or do you think I should diversify some of it? I have just over $ 250, 000 in the account, and I'll probably still be working for another 15 to 20 years. My gut reaction is to roll over the whole thing, mostly so I don't have to manage multiple accounts. 00:35:32 Speaker 2: Thanks. 00:35:34 Speaker 1: Welcome to GA. 00:35:35 Speaker 3: Okay. 00:35:35 Speaker 1: The GA. Do we say that, Joel? No. It is true. 00:35:39 Speaker 2: When she asked the question, I was like, yeah, I don't know of any other state that uses their postal abbreviation. 00:35:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, ATL. That's different. We do that. Maybe cities do that, but I can't think of any other states that do that. You know what I think it is? 00:35:55 Speaker 3: Huh? 00:35:56 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania is a really, it's got, does it have five syllables? Pennsylvania? Yeah. I think it's got five. Or do you say Pennsylvania? Pennsylvania. Yeah, you can do three. I think you can do it. Yeah. Four syllables if you're in the South. But I think the rest of the country says Pennsylvania. That's a lot of syllables versus PA, right? So I think in that case, it's optimized, which I can get behind. Renee's asking about her 401k, though. I like that she said that. some of the terms are staying the same, right? Like the match is staying the same, the 6%. I think that's awesome. Because that does not always happen. No. 00:36:34 Speaker 2: Usually the new overlord, that's one of the first things they cut down. 00:36:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I do want to make sure, though, that she didn't say outright that the plans are exactly the same, just that the 6% match is the same. And so one thing that I want you to look at, Rene, are the fees. Because if the fees are higher than in the new plan, I'm less excited about that. And I would say, hey, let's keep that other plan around, not because it has any sort of special superpower. Like she said something about diversification. That doesn't help. It's just nice to have something that's super low cost. And so look at your fees at your old plan, look at your fees at the new plan, and you want to have more money wherever the fees are leased. 00:37:19 Speaker 2: I think that's exactly right. I mean, I think that's what this comes down to. You roll it over if the new plan has lower fees, you leave it be if the fees are lower in the old 401k, even though it was with technically the same employer. And yeah, having two accounts to log into is not the end of the world, right? If it's two different providers. And if the fees are similar, yeah, you probably consolidate just to have fewer accounts. 00:37:44 Speaker 1: To log into. 00:37:45 Speaker 2: So if it's like, well, I was with Fidelity and now I'm with Vanguard, it's like, Well, put it all under one roof because they're both A-plus options. There's no need to really rack your brains around it. Just put everything in one place. The fees are all ridiculously low, and there's plenty of good investment options. I think one of the other things that is worth mentioning is she talked about potentially— I don't remember exactly how she phrased it, but she said something about how much she contributes to a 401k and whether she contributes. 00:38:12 Speaker 1: More than the match. She said, and then some. 00:38:14 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 00:38:15 Speaker 1: Or a little extra or something like that. 00:38:17 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I, I just want to not caution against that, but I want to say, when you look at the money gear, something we talk about is getting the match and then going to the Roth IRA. And that is, that is for multiple reasons. One is because yeah, you get to choose your provider and it's not being chosen for you. The other is tax diversification, a different kind of account, more flexibility in terms of kind of getting the contributions to that account. So if you need them before retirement age, there are a lot of reasons to go match, then Roth, then extra contributions to the 401k in that order. So just want Renee to think about that. Hey, if she's contributing 14%, she's getting matched on six. So like she's, then it's 20%, let's say of her total pay going there. Well, maybe we rarely tell people to invest less. We're not telling you to invest less overall, but maybe to invest differently. And instead of investing that extra in the 401k, put it in the Roth IRA instead, and then going back to put more. 00:39:12 Speaker 1: In the 401k after. Yeah. 00:39:14 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:39:14 Speaker 1: You're diversifying hopefully some of that tax burden as well. And that's where, aside from the actual investments, where you would want to diversify is that tax liability. But Joe, we're moving along, buddy. Fees, man. Fees are the big thing. That's the answer to this question. Pay attention to the fees. Heck yeah. We're only at 40 minutes, so we might be able to get to two Facebook questions of the week or written questions. So let's take a quick break. Maybe even six. We'll see. We'll hear from more listeners right after this. All right. We're back. 00:39:52 Speaker 2: We're getting to more of your listener questions. And time for the Facebook questions, Matt. This is, if you're not in the How to Money Facebook group, you should join it if you're on Facebook because there's great people in there. And everyone's helping each other with their money questions. And we like to take some of these on every Ask HTM episode. This one, the Facebook question of the week, this week comes from Anonymous. I wish you had your name, but that's all right. 00:40:15 Speaker 1: We'll go with that. Hello, fellow listeners. 00:40:17 Speaker 2: They say, I've been trying to figure out if my savings rate is correct. I know you're supposed to calculate it on your pre-tax income. What I'm not sure about is if I should include the portion that my employer contributes. Joel and Matt touched on this a little in an episode sometime back, but I didn't quite catch the answer. Either I was a little distracted during that particular segment or it just wasn't clear. 00:40:37 Speaker 1: What do y'all do? We probably weren't clear. Am I offended? I don't know. Depends how many craft beers Deep Anonymous was, right? Yeah. So basically, what do... Okay. 00:40:52 Speaker 2: My kids also, by the way, feign the same ignorance when I tell them they need to clean their room. 00:40:56 Speaker 1: They're like, I didn't hear you. What are you talking about? I got lost in translation, dad. Yeah. For folks who don't even know what we're talking about as far as the savings rate here, I don't want this to keep you from trying to save more, right? Like this is just a metric. And for I think the vast majority of folks, I don't think it matters. Like you could include it if you wanted to, if you can include. And speaking of employer match, essentially, right? Like this is this is what we're talking about here. We're just talking about was it Renee's question, but the ability to include some of those additional benefits that your employer is also tossing in to count towards your savings rate. It's I mean, I think it's up to the individual. I think what's most important is that if you're at that level of detail that you're just being consistent. Right. And so if you're kind of keeping up with this year after year, if you're including the match or sort of any other employer benefits, just make sure you always do that. If you're not, that's fine. You can you can keep up with that that way. But I guess I want to start with that to not get too bogged down in the details. And I don't want newer listeners to hear this and be like, oh, my gosh, like, do we need to be that dialed in? And the answer, I think, is no, you can't if you want to, but you certainly don't have to. 00:42:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, the goal is not to be draconian, right, in your rule keeping and exactly how you think about what your savings rate is. But this is one of those gray lines that people in the personal finance community differ on. I prefer to lean towards not factoring in the match into my savings rate. That's because like going back to Renee's question, 6% of her savings rate could be thanks to her employer's generosity. Her company just got bought out. Right now it's still 6%, Matt, but that might not last for long. It could go down to three next year. It could go down even further than that in years to come. I hope not for Renee's sake. I hope not for all of our listeners' sake. But this is one of those things that you don't have much control over. And I think for some people, let's say you have a 6% match and the goal is to get a 15% savings rate. You're like, great, I'm in 9%, 6% of my 401k, 3% towards my emergency fund of my income. I'm hitting my savings rate. But the part you don't have control of can move quickly. And then you find, actually, wow, now my savings rate kind of sucks. Like it's subpar. It's not where it should be. And I'm having a hard time climbing back up to that 15% savings rate where I really need to be to be growing the margin and gaining the optionality that I want. And so I think you're selling yourself short. 00:43:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, silver lining, you could then use that opportunity to say, well, dang it, I want to maintain that rate. And then you can really buckle down, right? 00:43:32 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:43:33 Speaker 1: And so, I mean, that's because if you include your employer match, all of a sudden that savings rate becomes more of a measure. of your total compensation at work, right? It's also including that. Yeah, I definitely factored into that. The total comp, that matters. 00:43:49 Speaker 2: Oh, 100%. 00:43:49 Speaker 1: Less into your personal savings rate, though. It's just that the, I think what you're saying is that in this case, what you're advocating for is that a savings rate is best used as a measure for your own self-discipline and how much you as an individual are setting aside relative to what your income is, relative to how much you're spending. And again- And I think I kind of agree with you there, Joel, because that is something you have total control over. But I also, I kind of like the challenge if somebody, you know, she's getting 6% as well, and all of a sudden that goes away. And if she wants to maintain that, oh, okay, you're going to have to really get after it. It depends if you want more like inflated numbers, if you're just like, oh, yeah, man, got a 30% savings rate. And you're like, all right, how much of that is from your employer? And you're just like, well, 10%. If you are used to, for many, many years, living on. 00:44:40 Speaker 2: A smaller gap, a smaller margin every single month, because you've been assuming that your employer's 401k is going to continue as is. You go get another job, you move on, you do something else. All of a sudden, you got to find an extra 6% in your budget every month in order to get back up to that savings rate. It's kind of like the student loan payments out of sight, out of mind. Then it's really hard to claw yourself back up into that. I think better to maintain the 15% savings habit. And that goes away, I think, obviously, when you reach Retirement, we're talking about spending the money we've built up. But to get to that point and to the optionality that we want to get, most people need a 15% savings floor. And if you get a match on top of that and your savings rate, because of the generosity of your employer, is in the 20% range, excellent. You're doing better than the floor. 00:45:24 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:45:25 Speaker 2: Don't count that as your personal savings rate, but count that as, hey, I am overall saving more than the bare minimum. 00:45:32 Speaker 1: That's great. 00:45:32 Speaker 2: But I think you're setting yourself up for a potential hardship If you factor that into your savings rate and then something changes. 00:45:39 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, depending on how nerdy you are, you can have an overall savings rate. Then you can have a personal savings rate. Then you can have a net take home. Like there's all that. There's just a whole lot of different sort of filters you can run it through. But all right. We still got time. Let me read this one. This is from Jacob. He sent us an email. An email. He wrote, hi, Matt and Joel. I'm Jake from Cincinnati. I'm in Money Gear 7. My craft beer equivalent is gardening slash landscaping expenses, especially native plants. Well, what? If Kate's listening, which she doesn't do all that often, she's going to be like high-fiving. Kate's all about native plants. Dude, she gets enough of you. She doesn't need this. I'm in the process of planning a bathroom remodel in my home. I've received four bids and am expecting total cost to be around $ 35, 000. I've been saving for this project and have the entire amount in cash. I'm reaching out as I'm hoping to maximize credit card points, bonuses, incentives is my best option to open a new credit card with a welcome bonus and pay for renovation expenses. Any charges will be paid off in full each month. I've also been, I've also seen swag bucks, uh, Rakuten for Home Depot and Lowe's could potentially double up on points. Let me know if there's anything I'm missing. Thanks for all you do guys. Uh, What you think, Joel? What should Jacob do? How should he spend or how should he pay for a lot of this? 00:46:56 Speaker 2: First things first, I love, he said he got four bids. And this to me is as crucial, if not more, than shopping for a mortgage. When we talk about how much people can save by shopping with three to four lenders instead of just one, which is what the average person does, we shop around for everything we buy. And then the most expensive things, we don't. We one-stop shop and we spend too much or we go with an inferior person. 00:47:22 Speaker 1: Bank, whatever. 00:47:24 Speaker 2: And so I think this is really crucial to saving money in the contractor space. And it's also important to note that not all bids are apples to apples, Matt. You know, having gone through renovation recently, the bottom line number that a builder is giving you, they didn't come to it from the same place that another builder came to it from. Maybe they're assuming certain price per square foot on tile, certain expenses like Maybe they think Matt likes the $ 4, 000 Japanese toilets when Matt's very content with the $ 200 bottom of the line. 00:47:59 Speaker 1: Lowe's branded toilet. 00:48:01 Speaker 2: But these are the kind of things you want to question too when you're going through those contractor bids so that you can understand. You don't want to just take that bottom line and say this one's going to be the cheapest. Well, was it the most realistic? I think is an important question to tackle too. 00:48:16 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm not partial to the Lowe's toilets. It's the Glacier Bay toilets that they sell at Home Depot that have the picture of the pool balls on it. It's got like this. I don't know how it does it. But first of all, you did not think we're going to go here. Neither did I. But you called out toilets. And so here we are. What's this? Was it Jacob? 00:48:39 Speaker 3: Jacob. 00:48:40 Speaker 1: Are you recommending toilets for him now? Yes. Okay. So this is, it's a normal looking toilet, but it is a one piece. It is a singular toilet. You know what that means? Matt has preached the gospel of the one-piece toilet. You do not have to clean that gross crack between the tank and the lower portion. It is the seamless, beautiful, Joni Ivey-looking design, smooth ceramic. It's wonderful, this porcelain. Which means you don't have to put those screws in, right, to connect the tank to the seat. To connect the two, exactly. So it's super sturdy, and it's a higher-powered flush tank. It's wonderful. And it's not one of those weird squatty look because a lot of times the one piece toilets are like weird shaped. They're like squatty and low. No, this one looks like a regular toilet. Real minimal. Highly recommend the Glacier Bay. And you'll see it. It's got the, again, it's got the pool balls on it. This has been Toilet Talk with Matt. 00:49:31 Speaker 2: Dude. 00:49:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, potty talk is more interesting than you thought it would be. But I'm all for Jacob. Let's not get that explicit rating again, Matt, okay? I'm all for Jacob signing up for cards and getting that initial bonus. Yeah. Because he's got the cash on hand, right? And so he sounds organized, disciplined enough to not get carried away. It would be even better, Jacob, to sign up for a business credit card because those welcome offers are even sweeter. And all you got to do is punch in your social. and all of a sudden you're going to be Jacob General Contracting because you're literally going to be doing the work of a business here on the side. You're going to have to do a little additional paperwork when it comes time to file your taxes. But that's completely legit, and you can get a business card that way. I would recommend that. But as far as running all the expenses through that card, when you're going through the interview process and you've gotten these bids, you're going to have to kind of feel out Your contractor, like your actual GC, like you're also a GC, but he's like the top dog GC, right? You got to find somebody who's willing to use your card or who's willing to have you go and pay for material because a lot of times they've got these relationships already set up. They've got the account set up at the lumber place or at the hardwood place. 00:50:51 Speaker 2: They might get a better discount than Jacob's going to get even with the rewards that he's snagging. 00:50:56 Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Not just from a, well, this is how I always do it. So let's just do, can we please do my system, buddy? Like, I'm not here for you to get your points. But on top of that, yeah, there might be some additional discount that your contractor is getting. So that's something to keep in mind, too. It's not a total slam dunk like this is going to, like you're going to be able to put $ 30, 000 on a card. But I think you can put a whole lot on there for sure. And I would take advantage of any signup offer. Absolutely. Yeah. 00:51:22 Speaker 2: You and I, neither of us are really big Swagbucks, Rakuten people. We're not really into the, you know, they have the apps where you shop at the grocery store and then you upload your receipt and you can get cash back. That's not something, you and I have resisted kind of the couponing back in the day, the cutting them out of the flyers. 00:51:43 Speaker 1: Yeah. It feels like. 00:51:44 Speaker 2: The modern version digital couponing and some people are super into it and do very well with it and no shade. It's just something that you and I don't really bother with or mess with. But I was looking into it. And especially with certain retailers, you can get meaningful cash back when you use a site like Swagbucks. And so I think if I was doing an insanely ungodly amount of business with a particular retailer where you got higher amounts of cash back, I think with Swagbucks at Home Depot, it's like 8%. If I was going to be dropping 10, 15 grand at Home Depot, Yeah, I would strongly consider that if it felt easy enough to jump through the hoops. Value your time, know what it's worth, and do it if it feels like the reward that you're going to get more than compensates for the time spent. But I would not do it if it's peanuts, essentially, that you're getting back in return. But when you look at it, swag bucks in certain categories on Home Depot, you're talking about 8% cash back. That's not nothing, especially if you're like, I'm getting a fridge, I'm getting these like eight of these $ 200 toilets that Matt talked about, and so I'm spending lots of money at Home Depot, then yeah, I mean, snag you the free cash back. 00:52:55 Speaker 1: Jacob lives in a 4-8. Why are there so many toilets in this house? It's so weird. It's so weird. But hey, do your thing, Jacob. Do your thing. All right. That's going to be it for this episode. Neither of us are enjoying a craft beer today. We're both enjoying our favorite other legal drug, which is caffeine. But yeah, head over to the website. And water. And water, yeah. 00:53:18 Speaker 4: H2O. 00:53:19 Speaker 1: Can't get enough, according to Joel. Howtomoney.com is the website. You can find any resources we mentioned over there. Straight from the homepage, we got a little button there. Actually, sometimes it covers our faces, which kind of bothers me. But you can click that link, and that'll link you directly to our YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe over there as we continue to explore video, all that it has to offer. 00:53:43 Speaker 2: Could you put that button straight over where my mustache is actually on the site? That would be great because I don't have a mustache in the picture on our homepage. 00:53:51 Speaker 1: We don't want folks to think that your mustache is. I feel like we should be able to use AI to update our photos. I'm just going to tell AI. Or we could just take a new photo. Put a mustache on Joel and it's going to make a mustache that looks like that, real short, just under your nostrils. It's like, that's not what we're going for. We're not going for the Hitler mustache. Not that kind. Not that kind. 00:54:15 Speaker 4: Please. 00:54:16 Speaker 1: Until next time. Best friends out. Best friends out.