WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - January 12th, 2024 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.760 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.000 Global business, finance and tech news. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:16.279 The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.800 Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.600 Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.880 Well what a week. Our first five day trading week, 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.240 full week of twenty twenty four. It felt like the 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.840 world was alive. Big banks kicking off us earnings. We 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.400 got another read on inflation coming in a bit hotter 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.960 than expected, although the Fed's favored super core inflation gauge 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.760 little change. Geopolitics still front and center. And then Tim, 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.840 We've got a really big reminder of how compromised social 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.000 media account can catch us off guard. 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:48.720 You know the story. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:50.360 It all had to do with the SEC approval for 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.600 the first time of exchange traded funds that invest directly 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:54.360 in bitcoin. 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.320 Everybody, come on, turn on two factor authenticash, and that's 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.520 all you got is do is well that false post 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.760 on Tuesday followed by the real one on Wednesday, ARC 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:04.880 and Vast among those getting the green light, and ARC 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.720 founder Kathy Wood joined Carol as the news was unfolding. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:09.160 That's up in our next hour. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:11.720 Coming up this hour, why twenty twenty four could be 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.880 a year of grave concern. Also what you need to 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.679 know about the rebels in American politics. It's all in 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.200 a new book by Bloomberg Business Weeks Josh Green. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.479 Plus tech spending, trends in healthcare with Amy shellhard at 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.440 Wellsky Ai Anyone I. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:27.479 Feel like Gay already a big theme this year. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.039 All of that to come. We begin, though, with a 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.120 world at war, as Ukraine and Russia entered their third 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.560 year of fighting, and as escalating attacks continued in the 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:37.199 Middle East. 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.320 Bloomberg Opinion International Affairs columnists Mark Champion writes that wars 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.640 are becoming existential, like it or not, and that global 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:46.920 citizens need to be ready for a world with new 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.520 kinds of wars. So what exactly does he mean by existential? 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.800 Well, it's really the difference between the kinds of wars 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.720 that we're more familiar with in the post Cold War 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:03.800 period the US thankcuse invasion of Iraq that were in Afghanistan. 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:09.520 These are wars essentially of choice, uh, and they require 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.400 you know, a certain set of tools, a lot of 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.160 special forces, a lot of air power, you know, air transport, 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.280 all these kinds of things, not a huge number of 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:25.000 number of tanks, artillery, the sort of or massed troops 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.880 that you would need in the kind of intensive conflict 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.920 you're seeing in Ukraine. And the point that I was 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:37.560 trying to make regarding Israel was there, this is you know, 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.359 going to be These kinds of wars are difficult to end. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.560 You can't just walk away. They're very hard to end 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.600 because the sides, at least one of the sides, you know, 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.040 normally two of them, see them as existential, so they 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:55.119 tend to get fought until once I just can't fight anymore, 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.519 and they require you know, a whole different view, much 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.840 more familar to the earlier part of the twentieth century, 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.880 about you know, what an armed force is for how 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:11.280 many people you need, whether you need conscription or you 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.320 can get away with just a volunteer army as most 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:17.000 of us have now, And then what kinds of equipment 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:18.600 you're going to have to have, and how much of it, 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.720 how much ammunition, how many artillery pieces, how many tank divisions, 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.600 et cetera. So it's you know, when these kinds of wars, 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:29.960 when you know when it changes and you have to 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.280 prepare for them. Not saying that you know the Europe 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.880 or the US is about to fight one of these, 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.200 but that you know, it's clear that we're going to 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.040 have to start preparing for them, and that requires a 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.840 lot of decisions by governments, a lot of explanation to 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.360 their populations about, you know, why you might have to 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.440 have conscription for example, and why they might need to 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:53.360 be paying more tax. 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:55.880 Hey, Mark, can you before we get to that, I 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.960 just want you to explain with some historical context, how 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.520 in existential war what happens after an existential war ends. 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.440 What are the consequences of a war being existential? I 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.400 mean it sounds like it's pure destruction. 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.600 The consequences are mainly about how they are fought. So, 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:17.320 you know, the two sides are if you look at 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:19.640 the war that's going on in Ukraine at the moment, 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.159 you know, the Ukrainians will will throw everything into it, 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.599 and you know they are trying to mobilize. You know, 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.719 at the moment Presidence Selenski is talking about mobilizing another 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.400 five hundred thousand troops. You know, Russia has had several 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:42.120 rounds of partial mobilizations and you need a lot of manpower, 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.359 and the way they are fought, there's a much higher 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:51.520 tolerance for casualties, casualties among your troops and casualties among 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.000 civilians on your side on the other side. And you know, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.400 this is one of the things that you're seeing in 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:03.800 Israel where it's really see this as an existential fight. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:08.480 They see what Hamas did on October the seventh. Hamas 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.719 of course, is you know, publicly committed to the destruction 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.400 of Israel, that this is what the destruction of Israel 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.000 would mean. And therefore, you know, there's a kind of 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.960 disconnect between the outside world when they see what's going 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.640 on in Gaza and the way that Israelis see it. 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.480 But it has big implications for you know, how long 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.000 these things will tend to go on, and how they 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.600 will be fought, how they end, or what happens afterwards. 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.760 You know, that's that's a slightly different matter. But you know, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:36.880 we have several you know, you have the example, we 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.920 all you know, historically lived through it. In World War One, 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.200 World War Two. These were all existential wars. 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.000 Right I think about you know, my dad and his 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.120 three brothers all fought in World War Two in some 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.200 way or another, and his youngest brother really wasn't of age, 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:52.919 but because his other brothers were there, he just went 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.280 and signed up and they took him because he's like, 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.320 we're all in this together and we've got a fight. 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.960 Having said that, I do think about out, you know, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.440 the willingness of some countries and their soldiers willing to 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:07.279 fight to the bitter end, is what you're kind of 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:08.840 saying versus other countries. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:10.679 Because does the US and your view. 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.600 And some of the developed European nations, do they have 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:15.320 that will to fight to the bitter end? 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.920 Well, this is the thing. You know at the moment, 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.040 you know, this is a war being fought. These are 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.560 two wars, right, So one is being fought between Ukraine 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.560 and Russia and the other is being fought between Israel 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:31.320 and Hamas. And you know, in neither case is the 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:35.480 US or you know, Britain, nor France or Germany directly involved. 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.640 But they do take a side. They're supporting them and 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.640 are committed to do you know what it takes to 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:46.159 make sure, for example, that Ukraine you know, succeeds. But 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.120 there you have this disconnect is very important because there 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.680 is a big question as to whether and we're already 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.159 seeing it happen as to whether you know, countries that 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:00.760 aren't actually facing their existential threat are willing to make 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.159 the kinds of pay, the kinds of prices and costs. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.120 The countries that feel it is as essential and are 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.200 involved in the fight directly, are willing to make. But 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.160 it makes you it is very important. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.239 It makes me wonder too. There's a line in your column. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.160 Appetite to take on US interest and allies is growing 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.080 in a multipolar world where countries such as China are 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.400 on and Russia now have greater means to do so, 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.320 at least in their own backyards. And I do wonder 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.320 does it put some nations, including the United States and 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:35.320 others at risk because of that unwillingness to fight to 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:35.960 the bitter end. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.080 Well, the US is in a very privileged position in 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:44.240 the sense that it has two large oceans between it 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:49.040 and any rival power. So this is something that has 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.960 been more of a wake up call for Europe because 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.360 you know, Europe doesn't end at a particular point in 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.600 Russia is parts of Europe. You know parts of Russia 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:02.480 are parts of Europe, is part of Europe, and you 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.200 know there is a sort of understanding that this we're 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.000 entering a different world here and that there can be 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.840 a threat. You know, these things are very you know, 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.080 history is difficult to predict, so you know there is 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:21.080 a different view. You just had the Internal Markets Commissioner 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.800 of the European Union. He just went to the parliament yesterday, 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.360 European Parliament and said, I think we need one hundred 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.880 billion dollar or euro rather one hundred billion euro fund 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.920 to fund greater defense production and to do more of 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.800 that together so that we're you know, getting more bang 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.080 for our buck, precisely because we can't rely on the 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.280 US to always be there. He specifically talked about the 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:52.559 possibility of Donald Trump getting a second term and also 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.680 because you know, the threats that we face are clearly. 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.800 Changing, right And I know there's an individual who spoke 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:00.960 to in the story that you highlight of Mcryan, a 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.400 former general in the Australian Army, who says politicians everywhere 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.959 need to understand themselves and explain to their citizens of 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.240 the next half century will be different from the last 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.960 half century and that they are going to have to prepare. 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.040 So you're talking about different levels of taxes, defense spending, 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.440 and mobilization, a very very different environment that we have 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:22.440 gotten accustomed to really globally. Very thoughtful piece, and so 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.160 appreciate you Mark. I know it's a little bit later 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.320 out there in London, so really appreciate that you would 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.040 share that with our audience. Mark Champion, Bloomberg Opinion International 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.280 Affairs columnists. Be sure to check out his story and 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.040 more from Bloomberg Opinion on the Bloomberg Terminal, of course, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.120 at Bloomberg dot Com Slash Opinion. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.200 Yeah, check out this piece. It talks a lot about 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.480 the tolerance for casualties and how that's higher because it's 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.319 an existential war, very. 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.040 Different feeling and mode than what we've been in. 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:55.079 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.480 Live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.240 On Bloomberg dot com, Hard Radio app and. 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.520 The Bloomberg Business App, or watch just Live on YouTube. 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.280 When it comes to risks overall, engaging and analyzing their impact, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.120 the Erasia Group is always a go to, and the 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:15.400 companies report on top Risks predictions for twenty twenty four 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.920 points to a year of grave concern. So let's get 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.160 into it and to some of the risks with you. 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:24.080 Eurrasia Group Chairman Clip Cupchin. He is at the Bloomberg 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.360 News Bureau in Washington, d C. Cliffs. So nice to 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:27.920 have you here with Tim and myself. I want to 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.120 say welcome and happy new year, but I feel like 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.720 it might not be a good year. There's lots of 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.560 reasons out there. Is that a fair assessment? And is 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.960 it more than any other year in recent time? We 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.480 just dealt with a global pandemic a few years ago, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.200 you know, go back in eight we had a global 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.280 financial crisis. We've had some really big things that we've 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.480 had to deal with as an individual, as an American, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:51.480 as a global citizen. 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:57.600 I think what separates this year from recent years is 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.319 the number of wars going on. We have two kinetic 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:05.400 wars going on Ukraine and Israel Amas, and that's a 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.439 lot of wars. I think we have to after ourselves 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.760 why to kinetic wars? But in addition, and the way 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.720 we like to think about this report, there's really three wars. 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.360 It's the two I've mentioned and about to begin is 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.920 the US against itself, which in many many ways will 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.600 be the world's more serious war because it pertains to 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:28.480 the world's long remaining superpower, three wars with no guard rails, 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.760 three wars that we think have no leaders that can 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.920 really fix the problem, and three wars where the two 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.480 sides don't even necessarily agree what the war's over. And 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.440 that's really pertains the United States. So yeah, I think 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.920 risk is a thing that we always worry about, but 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.000 this year it's got a real edge to it. 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.679 Does it feel like investors are ignoring the risk out there? 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:51.360 I mean, we're almost at all time highs on the 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:52.600 S and P five hundred right now. 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:59.679 I think on the potential for escalation in the Middle East, 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.839 there's a bit of a head in the sand thing 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.160 going on. I mean, for instance, I would be surprised 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.120 if the US didn't hit the houthies pretty soon in Yen. Wow, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.520 how's Iran going to react? You know, don't think they'll 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.160 do much, but I sure hope they don't. I think 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.440 that's one aspect in which investors have their head in 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.400 the sand. But the bigger one is what's about to 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.000 go on in this country. We're about to see President 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:24.840 Trump get the nomination in a couple of months, and 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.440 then you know, we're in a new era. We're in 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.240 an era where he gets the media, he controls the funding, 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.800 he controls the TV. You'll pressure on Biden to do 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:36.559 something on Iran because Trump will be to the weight 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.880 of the right of him on Iran. The Ukrainians are 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:40.320 going to wonder if they're ever going to see another 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.040 dollar from this country again, which I think is a 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.320 very good question. So I think the main risk that 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.040 at least over the medium term, US isn't going to 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.920 tang anytime soon. But if we see another Trump presidency, 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:52.920 I think everybody's going to ask themselves is the US 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.800 good for its promises? Is the US the haven the 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.120 safe haven for money that has been since the Second 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.280 World War? Those kinds of questions They're going to. 0:12:59.960 --> 0:13:02.000 Be honest, Cliff, I've got to say, you know, this 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.520 whole idea of the US, you know, basically at war 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:09.280 with itself against itself and really the division and questioning 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.280 American democracy, And I do wonder what happens on the 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.880 other side. And we're a young nation still, right, and 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:17.320 I look at some of the older countries there are 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.280 oftentimes where they're questioning kind of what is going on internally? 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.800 Is there something from history that you think we can 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.040 draw upon to kind of figure out and say, well, 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.679 this is kind of normal in a young country's history, 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.319 and try to figure out and maybe make some conclusions 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:34.480 about where it goes from here. 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:40.280 I can't think of a democracy. Look, I mean this 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:41.600 is kind of unique. You know, we have a guy 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:46.080 running for president, you know, a democracy who tried to 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.920 curtail to be nice to him democracy. Last time we 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.880 saw this movie, I think the only analogy, and it's 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.680 not from distant history, but what happened to Hungary after 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.040 Victor orbon really got his mitt around it? Well, you 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.760 know he's Hungarian democracy? Ever going to rebound Polish democracy? 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:04.760 Did Hungarian democracy? 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:05.200 I don't know. 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:09.160 I don't know. So there's a real question as to 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:13.240 how much we can absorb, how much damage the US 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.360 can take the second time around. I don't think history 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.440 is a very good guy, because this is really very 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:19.240 ahistorical and rather unprecedented. 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.520 What would be your message to politicians who see no 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.160 problem with another Trump administration? 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.720 First, I would say, don't take what you have for 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:34.560 granted anymore. This is a very fragile democracy that was 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.160 invented by a bunch of geniuses. When you think of 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.760 how they sort of controlled human nature and the greed 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.280 that's within all of us, but set up these chunks 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.360 of balances and nobody can really get away with it. 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.120 But it's fragile, and it's fragile to a huckster, to 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:53.600 a really good politician like Donald Trump, who can you know, kirk, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.520 who can feed, who can feed scared people and make 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.400 them induce them to vote for him. So I would 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:06.800 tell politicians to sort of get real and be very 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.560 jealous of what you have, first of all. 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.080 But secondly, I think the. 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:17.840 Rest of us here have to really respect wouldn't be 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.960 the word, but be very cognizant of what's going on 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:20.680 in this country. 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.560 That you know, I go home to Wisconsin. 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.360 When I go home to central Wisconsin and talk to people, 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.200 and of them vote for Donald Trump. And these are 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.200 church going, god fearing, good people. Give them their money 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.320 at night and give it all back in the morning. 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.880 They're very honest people. They're scared, they're misguided, they get 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:44.360 bad information. But I think all of us have to 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.200 sort of see this guy's legitimate and then sort of 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.160 look within ourselves and say, how did we get here? 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:50.920 Because we're not a very good We're not a very 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:51.320 good place. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.560 I felt that way about the uprising and the siege 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.680 at the capitol, Like I want to understand these people, 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.200 Why are they doing this? Why are they kind of 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.040 want to understand why someone thinks that way. I don't 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:03.680 walk around in their shoes, and they don't walk around 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.600 in my shoes, but I kind of want to understand 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:06.680 how do we do that? 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:06.960 Though? 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.359 Where people in terms of how they get their information, 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:15.040 it is often a chosen source, one source, which can 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.160 lead to kind of this vacuum, and it can potentially 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:19.600 be a vacuum of misinformation. 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.520 Well, we all got to make an effort, and I 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.600 didn't you join you today, come on to radio or 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.880 tell stories. But I'm going to share one quick second 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.480 one with you. So I was on vacation during COVID. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.720 It was in West Virginia, and I called the Central 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.600 Committee of the Republican Party of Xyz County. It was 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.200 a real county and it was a real conservative and 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.360 I kept my fifteen year old son. We met with 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.320 him for lunch and it was the most fascinating three 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.600 hours I think I've had in a long long time. 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.640 These far right Republicans felt like they had succeeded from America, 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.440 felt like nobody in Washington cared what they thought about 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.680 and they said I was first first washing they'd ever seen. 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.960 And you know, I think there's an actual conversation to 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:02.800 be had somewhere what he's trying. These aren't necessarily bad people, 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.439 they're scared people, But I think there's got to be 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.240 some kind of trust between these two polls that are 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.480 just widening and widening and widening. There's got to be 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:12.320 someplace in the middle where we can have a conversation 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.360 because we all are decent people, we all come from 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.880 the same founding fathers. But nobody's trying right now. We're 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.159 all just getting further and further into our nativistic corner. 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.320 So the trend line's not good. I don't think it's inevitable, 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:22.960 but it's not good. 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.840 Well, you may have not come on to tell stories, 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:27.399 but we certainly wish you did, because we feel like 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.040 it's very realistic now in terms of what's going on 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.520 and really resonate in place to some of the risks, 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:36.600 as you say, the number one risk that you guys 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.680 have identified as the US versus itself, which is just well, 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.000 come back soon, come back so do you think we'll 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.840 get twenty seconds come out in a better way or 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:48.399 it's fifty to fifty at this point. 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:53.000 Well, let me say that there are really good stories 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:58.000 out there, and Mexico after the Shinbaum is going to 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.479 be I think a really good president of Mexico. Mode's 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.720 gonna get reelected. India is headed in a good direction. 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.760 There are good stories, and I think we should you know, 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:08.520 next time I come back, maybe we can do the 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:09.879 good news, because there's good news. 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:15.760 All right, Okay, promise, promise you open invitation. So appreciated 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.560 you as your group chairman. Cliff Cupchin joining us from 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.640 our bureau in Washington, DC. 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.920 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.960 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.440 the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.640 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:52.320 Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.000 All right, everybody, he is He's not necessarily rebel. I 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:56.600 don't know about that. 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:57.359 We'll talk about that. 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.400 But he is the number one New York Times bestselling 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.200 author Devil's Bargain Steve Bannon, Donald Trump and the Storming 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.600 of the Presidency. His new book takes a look at 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.480 the other side of the political spectrum, chronicling the rise 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.240 of economic populism and the Democratic Party in the wake 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.480 of the global financial crisis and collapse, if you will, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.200 in two thousand and eight. This play is a big role, 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:18.560 if you will, in terms of his thinking and in 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:19.160 the book. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:20.720 The new book, I got it in my hand right here. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.040 It's called The Rebels Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, AOC and 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.600 the Rise of the New Left. Very please at back 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.840 with us our colleague Josh Green. He's BusinessWeek national correspondent. 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.920 He's here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Josh, talk 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.080 about timing. You know, we're going to get to the 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.000 book in justice second. 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:38.600 We're going to come in. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:40.479 We're going to get to the book in just a second. 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:45.600 But first, the breaking news about Chris Christy exiting the race. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.280 He's actually caught disparaging Nikki Haley and Rondo Santis as 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.960 he exited the race. You wrote a big profile of 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:56.040 Chris Christie back at the end of last year, August 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.560 of twenty twenty one, I should say, talking about how 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:01.680 he's absolutely totally one hundred anti Trump for now. From 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:03.919 the beginning, it was a long shot presidential candidate. But 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:04.919 let's get your reaction. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:06.760 Yeah, I mean, to me, Christy was always kind of 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.560 the most interesting guy in the race, always going to 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.639 be a long shot, but you know, blunt, obnoxious, unafraid 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.840 to kind of speak truth to power, and just from 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.199 a kind of a journalistic standpoint, super entertaining guy and 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:19.040 fun to be around. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:20.000 So I actually went out. 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.200 And traveled with him. I was in North Carolina, all right, sorry, 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:27.000 New Hampshire, South Carolina, kind of watching how people reacted 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:28.760 to him, and I got to be honest, Even then, 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.119 you could tell what his problem was going to be. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:32.840 You know, you'd have these town hall events and people 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.359 would flock to them, and I'd go talk to them after, 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.440 and like half of them were Democrats. Like, the problem 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.399 is the appeal that Chris Christie has is not a 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.760 hardcore Republican primary voters. It's to people who don't like 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.200 Donald Trump. And yes, that's a narrow sliver of Republican voters, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.080 but what it mostly was was kind of aggrieved Democrats 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.679 who liked to hear a Republican beating on Trump. 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.840 Who'd have thunk when you or did you think when 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.520 you wrote your first book that, I mean Donald Trump, 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.160 was he just going to be kind of a one off? 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:02.960 Or was he going to be something that was so 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.480 pivotal to the Republican Party and really such a part 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:08.600 of I feel like every political conversation. 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:10.960 I mean, by the time I wrote my first book 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.600 of twenty seventeen, Devil's Bargain was about the rise of 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:15.760 Trump and Bannon in that campaign. You know, Trump was 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:17.560 in the White House and it was pretty clear, like 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:19.720 to me anyway, this wasn't going to be a one 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.480 off thing. I mean, Trump and trump Ism are here 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.679 to stay. I mean, whether whether or not he avoided 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.320 you know, indictment or this or that or could could 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.240 like when reelection, I think was and is an open question. 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:35.200 But such a powerful force of personality. You could see 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.280 already the way he's dominating Republican politics in a way 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:42.879 that's made it just impossible so far for challengers, including 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.840 Chris Christy to knock him off his throne. 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:46.080 Is it just the personality? 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:46.879 What is it? 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.239 Because I was trying to think, is there somebody of 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:53.640 another politician, you know, in our lifetime that obviously maybe 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.200 didn't cause what someone would say the chaos, but was 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.679 also just so charismatic and just had that personality. 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.320 In a very very different way I think Barack Obama 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.919 did for Democrats. I mean it was almost like this 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.760 kind of religious ecstasy when you would go to Obama 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.119 events when he was first running, even back when he 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.160 was still a senator, and people were just so excited 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.240 about that. It's a similar phenomenon when you go to 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:19.359 Trump events that this isn't you know, the people in 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.840 the crown, This is not just another politician, This is 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.919 someone special in being here, seeing them as like some 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:30.359 kind of a quasi mystical experience. There have been others, 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:31.680 but it's really really rare. 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.360 Josh. If we were areded to make comparisons to your 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:41.639 first book, Devil's Bargain about Trump and about Steve Bannon, 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:44.399 together with this book, which is about sort of the 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.040 same thing happening on the left, the first thing that 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.600 comes to mind for me is that Republicans have been 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:56.080 so much more successful it seems like in embracing the 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:00.560 extremist portion of their party, that is the Donald Trump 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:02.560 wing up the party. I mean, look, Mike Johnson, a speaker, 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:03.560 for example, exactly. 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:06.560 Yeah, No, I think look when Trump's version of right 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:12.680 wing populism was so intrinsically appealing to Republican voters that 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:15.960 like it took over the party in the span of 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.600 a month. I mean, I remember actually traveling, you know, 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.119 down to the border with Trump and Bannon when he 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.280 was first running, and at the time still this kind 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.960 of controversial, quasi crazy seeming guy. He seemed like he'd 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:30.800 be a fun news cycle, maybe a flash in the pan, 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:34.439 and then like a month later, he's dominating Republican polls 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:38.440 and he's never looked back. Not quite the same experience 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.440 on the left, I mean, there was definitely a similar 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.560 populist phenomenon in the sense that there really was this 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:49.359 left wing backlash to Obama and the financial crisis among 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:51.879 Democratic voters. You could see it in the rise of Warrant, 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.320 and you could especially see it in the rise of 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:58.160 Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign in twenty fifteen. He too, really 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:01.919 kind of caught fire and suddenly had these big national audiences, 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.359 somewhat in the way Trump did with Republicans, but he 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:08.119 never took over the entirety of the Democratic electorate the 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:10.280 Democratic Party in the way that Trump did on the 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:10.960 Republican side. 0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:13.640 We're talking about Josh Green, his new book Out the Rebels, 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:18.199 Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio Cortes, and the struggle 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:21.560 for new American politics. What's interesting, Josh is I feel 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.199 like so many conversations we still have around this table, 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:29.159 political or other business. We talk about the pandemic impact 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:31.560 right and kind of where we are, where we were, 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.560 and how it continues to affect us as a society. 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:37.440 But the two thousand and eight financial crisis is such 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:40.040 a crucial part of your book, and I think you 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:43.840 write one event that shaped recent American politics more than 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:47.399 any other. Talk to us about the importance of that 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:49.600 event and how it continues to shape us. 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.880 So to me, as a kind of middle aged Washington 0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:56.879 reporter slash author historians who's been on the scene for 0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:59.879 a while, the two thousand and eight financial crisis is 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:05.000 the tectonic event in modern American politics. And it was 0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:06.280 clear at the time it was going to be a 0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:11.399 big deal. But I don't think we understood the aftershocks 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:13.720 from that earthquake. And you could see it initially in 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:16.359 the rise of the Tea Party movement and Occupy Wall Street, 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:18.280 both at which I covered. You could see it in 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.959 the rise of the populist right, Donald Trump, Steve Bannon, 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:24.480 outlets like Breitbart News, the way that took over the 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:27.320 Republican Party. But what interested in me for this book 0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:29.960 was that there was really a similar phenomenon on the 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:33.040 left and like the one on the right, I think 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:36.879 it really stemmed from economic issues, that broad sense of 0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:41.199 anger and economic dislocation, not just from the crash, but 0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:44.119 from the austerity and job loss that followed in the 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:49.800 recovery that really shaped American politics in twenty sixteen. Weirdly enough, 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:53.959 the book is kind of bookended by a second economic crisis, 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:57.760 the COVID crash. But what's happened since then, I think 0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:01.760 has been less economic driven and more cultural driven. And 0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:06.360 partly that's because Trump and Biden both instituted a very 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:10.639 successful economic response to the COVID crash. Big stimulus is 0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:14.480 all kinds of middle class support, Wall Main Street. It 0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:17.600 was more more Main Street than Wall Street this time around. 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.760 I think you see that in the robust economic numbers 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:24.399 we're seeing today. But rather than have Americans be super 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:28.000 happy and gratified and eager to reelect Joe Biden. Instead, 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:30.800 the big political fight is shifted on a cultural terrain, 0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:35.000 and COVID really drove that with mask mandates and vaccines. Uh, 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:38.000 you know, in Trump and Democrats fighting and Anthony Fauci, 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:41.720 and that's where we are today, you know, economically better off, 0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:44.800 but still as Americans kind of angry in each other's throats. 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:48.240 Do you think in any world, Josh, there could be 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:52.520 a singular candidate who could unite both populist wings of 0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:53.199 each party. 0:26:53.520 --> 0:26:56.000 You know, I used to, but I really don't because 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:58.159 of the cultural because of the cultural angle. 0:26:58.240 --> 0:26:58.440 Yeah. 0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:01.000 I mean, look, you can look today at Donald Trump's 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:05.280 policies and at Joe Biden's policies, and on economics, there's 0:27:05.359 --> 0:27:09.920 real populist overlap. You know, Biden kept Donald Trump's tariffs 0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:13.080 and you know a lot of the thing China policy, right, 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:15.600 Trump for his entire presidency said, you know, this is 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:17.200 going to be infrastructure week, This is going to be 0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:20.080 infrastructure week. It never was, but Joe Biden got a 0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:23.480 lot of that passed and instituted. So there are certainly 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:27.600 areas of overlap on economics. But as you said, culturally, 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:29.520 I think the two parties are farther apart than ever. 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:31.760 If the two thousand and eight financial crisis hadn't happened, 0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:33.080 where might we be politically? 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:35.480 Would we have seen this wave of populism. 0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:38.280 I can't imagine that we would have, you know, to me, 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:41.280 I mean, my analysis doing all the reporting and all 0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:43.600 the kind of you know, historical digging I did for 0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:47.000 the rebels was that we've seen this kind of populous 0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:50.240 backlash before, after the Great Depression in the nineteen forties. 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:52.480 But if there hadn't been a crash in two thousand 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:54.960 and eight, I don't know what event would have been 0:27:55.000 --> 0:27:57.720 there to kind of generate that backlash. Maybe it would 0:27:57.720 --> 0:27:59.760 have been, you know, maybe would have been about something else, 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:02.520 but I don't think it would have been an economic populace. 0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:04.720 And then Donald Trump had made his way to the 0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:05.240 White House. 0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:09.000 It's like, it's funny, it's hard for me to imagine 0:28:09.000 --> 0:28:10.720 he would, but you know, I wouldn't rule it out, 0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:14.080 because I mean, Trump is such a natural entertainer not 0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:16.119 to go off on too big a degression. In the 0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:18.639 last book, Devil's Bargain, about the rise of Trump, I 0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.800 did a big chapter on how Trump, you know, when 0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:25.959 he was on TV, had huge appeal to black audiences, 0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.560 to minority ornis is they love the Apprentice. So I 0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:31.800 could imagine an alternate universe in which Trump had run 0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:37.480 as this kind of bipartisan, centrist, entertainer, celebrity figure who 0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:40.040 just got everybody excited and united the country. But that 0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:42.080 obviously is not the world we've wound up in. 0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:43.480 I mean, what is so wild at the end of 0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:46.239 the day is Trump is hardly the picture of the 0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:49.320 populist who he is set to appeal to. I mean, 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:54.640 this is a guy who's inherent exactly you know, flies 0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:58.360 on private jets everywhere, calls himself a billionaire. Whether that's 0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:01.240 true or not can be debated. Hey, speaking of characters, 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:02.600 I want to get to a couple of the characters 0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:06.440 that you highlight in The Rebels Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, 0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:09.560 Alexandro Casier Cortez and the Struggle for a New American Politics, 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:11.480 your new book that came out yesterday. I want to 0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:14.200 go to aoc because it was such a shock in 0:29:14.240 --> 0:29:18.720 twenty eighteen when she ended up beating Crowley in the 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:23.800 Democratic primary and essentially becoming the new face of at 0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:28.760 least for young Democrats out there progressive politics. What is 0:29:28.800 --> 0:29:30.240 her future in the party? 0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:32.720 Boy, you know, it's a good question. I mean, she's 0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:35.880 such an interesting narrative thread in the book because you 0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:39.720 can trace her genesis from the Occupy Wall Street movement. 0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:43.920 Like a lot of the people that surrounded her and 0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:46.920 helped organize that original campaign to knock off Joe Crowley 0:29:46.920 --> 0:29:50.280 and got her elected were Occupy Wall Street veterans, And 0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:53.719 so you can trace a line from that economic discontent 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:59.200 on the left to her congressional career. I think the 0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:02.840 path forward for her is really tough to see because 0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:06.680 she doesn't strike me as someone, at least not right now, 0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:09.400 who could really hope to win statewide office in New 0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:13.040 York senator, governor. I think she's coded as kind of 0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:14.120 being too radical. 0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:17.040 Oh that's interesting, I do, so the obvious. 0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:18.720 Path forward to me, And she's kind of hinted and 0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.240 alluded that this might be in the future in twenty 0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:23.680 twenty eight, maybe she runs for president. It's kind of 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:28.960 a Bernie Sanders style factional Democratic candidate. Certainly she would 0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:31.360 be the one that would stand to inherit that mantle 0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:33.520 and that movement, if that's what she decided to do, 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:35.240 but I think she's still trying to figure out what 0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:37.880 exactly she wants to accomplish. And I think whether or 0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:42.120 not Joe Biden wins, and how that winner loss is 0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:45.360 interpreted after the fact, will do a great deal to 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:46.960 kind of shape the world in which she's going to 0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:48.680 have to run if she decides that that's what she 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:49.240 wants to do. 0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:51.880 What's important in terms of the world. And I think 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:54.400 about our audience who are listening and watching understand about 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:56.520 Elizabeth Warren and her role in all of this. 0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:01.880 I think really that she is the one that helped 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:05.520 shift the Washington Democrats in the direction of this kind 0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:08.760 of democratic populacem Bernie Sanders had been in, you know, 0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:11.320 around saying these sort of things like since I was 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:14.160 a little boy, and nobody really listened to it before 0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:17.360 two thousand and eight, he would. He was kind of 0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:19.959 a gadfly, you know. But but Warren came in and 0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:24.120 very skillfully used her platform versus the tarp oversight cop 0:31:24.200 --> 0:31:26.320 that kind of bailout before she was in the Senate, 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:29.240 just to shift the whole public conversation. I mean, I 0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:32.400 tell a long I have a long chapter in the 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:34.800 rebels about how Warren kind of came on the scene 0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:37.400 and was one of the first people in Washington to 0:31:37.560 --> 0:31:42.040 leverage YouTube and social media to help shape media coverage. 0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:44.720 She was a darling of John Stewart and The Daily 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:48.440 Show back when like that was the show that everybody watched, 0:31:48.680 --> 0:31:52.080 and it really helped change what the Democratic elector had 0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:55.000 cared about and talked about in a way that forced 0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:59.600 Democratic politicians to respond. So I think she's been instrumental 0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:02.680 in kind of shaping the broader contours of the modern 0:32:02.720 --> 0:32:05.960 Democratic Party, even though she ran for president in twenty 0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:06.760 twenty and lost. 0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:08.520 How much does Joe Biden you think listened to her. 0:32:08.720 --> 0:32:10.000 I think he listens to her a lot. I mean, 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:11.480 all you have to do is look at a list 0:32:11.560 --> 0:32:15.160 like the roster of who's staffing the upper echelons of 0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:17.880 his administration. A lot of them are Elizabeth Warren people. 0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:20.520 And I talked to a former Biden official in the 0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:23.240 book very much as centrist, not a not a lefty, 0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:28.200 who said, look, Warren and Sanders were not controversial people 0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:30.280 in Joe Biden's White House. We spend all our time 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:34.440 worrying about Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema the centrists who 0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:36.720 gave Biden so much headache. So I think that's a 0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:40.600 good measurement of just how far the Democratic Party has 0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:43.480 shifted in this left populist direction, at least on economics. 0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:46.400 Hey, Josh, we got forty seconds left. What happens to 0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:48.640 the rebels If Joe Biden loses. 0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:52.720 Boy, that's a great question. I think that it will 0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:56.120 discredit in the public sizes are certainly in the democratic 0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:59.320 political world's eyes a lot of what they've done, and 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:01.840 I think it will and a real problem for Democrats 0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:04.120 moving forward, because if you just look at the raw 0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:08.120 economic numbers we see today, it's really been a remarkable 0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:12.400 recovery in America from that COVID crash. So a lot 0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:15.760 to be said, I think on behalf of robust government 0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:18.760 response to kind of recessions things like that. But if 0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:22.160 Biden loses and it's attributed to high inflation and government 0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:26.960 spending in the policies of people like Warren Bernie and AOC, 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:30.160 then I think most Democrats are going to reject that 0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:34.200 going forward, the same way that Democrats rejected Jimmy Carter 0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:36.000 and his brand of politics in the nineteen eighties. 0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:40.280 So it's so wild, given that the policies aren't that 0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:43.160 removed from one another. It's the cultural stuff. 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:45.160 History is so contingent. 0:33:45.240 --> 0:33:47.520 Yeah, great stuff. Thank you so much. 0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:49.240 Thank you guys, appreciate all the time. 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:49.600 Of course. 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:52.520 Bloomberg Business Week National correspondent Josh Green. His new book 0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:55.600 is The Rebels Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, AOC and the 0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:58.800 Rise of the New Laft really the struggle for a 0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:00.000 new American politics. 0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:05.000 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:08.479 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on. 0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:12.239 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg. 0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:15.000 Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:34:15.920 --> 0:34:17.600 All right, so we're gonna switch gears a little bit. 0:34:17.600 --> 0:34:19.920 Talk a little bit about the healthcare world. According to 0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:23.160 the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, US healthcare spending 0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:25.640 grew four point one percent in twenty twenty two, for 0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:29.080 a total of four and a half trillion dollars. That's 0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:34.640 about thirteen point five thousand dollars thirteen thousand forget ninety three, 0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.000 Sorry I saw that number a per person. That's a lot. 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:37.319 It is. 0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:39.400 We spent way like when you have a kid. 0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:40.080 You spend a lot more. 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:41.640 Yeah, major subirth of the kid. 0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:42.200 You spend a lot. 0:34:42.239 --> 0:34:43.440 I was like, oh, we spent way more than that 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:45.759 last Well, fortunately we didn't. Our insurance company did. 0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:47.959 Yeah, exactly, Carol. 0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:50.560 Spending on healthcare accounting for seventeen point three percent of 0:34:50.680 --> 0:34:53.600 US GDP. Needless to say, there is a lot of 0:34:53.680 --> 0:34:54.800 money in healthcare. 0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:57.239 Right next us comes to us from well Sky It's 0:34:57.239 --> 0:34:59.800 a B to B tech company. It provides tech services 0:34:59.880 --> 0:35:03.600 for healthcare providers, insurance companies, social services providers, and a 0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:05.840 lot more. It is backed by the private equity firms 0:35:06.320 --> 0:35:08.960 TPG and Leonard Green and Partners. The company Tim has 0:35:08.960 --> 0:35:11.520 a great read on the money flows throughout the complex 0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:15.360 healthcare ecosystem and where efficiency can be found. I'm hearing 0:35:15.400 --> 0:35:16.120 it spending. 0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:16.560 Yeah. 0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:18.920 Amy Shellhard is Chief Solutions Officer at Well Scott. She 0:35:19.000 --> 0:35:21.839 joins us on Zoom from Springfield, Missouri. Amy, Happy New Year. 0:35:21.840 --> 0:35:22.279 How are you? 0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:25.400 Thank you? Happy New Year? I'm great, Ready for wonderful 0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:26.399 twenty twenty four. 0:35:26.480 --> 0:35:32.319 Thanks for having me so explain for the layperson what 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:34.920 exactly well skypowers. 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:39.839 Well will skypowers, as you said, technology services and analytics 0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:42.799 that support over twenty thousand clients, and to sort of 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:46.319 put that in perspective, it's about two thousand hospitals one 0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:48.800 hundred and thirty thousand providers. So if you think about 0:35:48.880 --> 0:35:51.280 care being provided in the home, it's one in three 0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:55.160 home care based providers utilize our system over five million caregivers. 0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:59.200 So a lot of the technology, again, the services and 0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:01.839 the analytics that help them do their jobs every day. 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:03.560 Well, I said to our producer this morning when we 0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:05.279 were getting ready and prepping for our show and we're 0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:07.600 talking about your company and you coming on, I said, so. 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:09.319 It's like back office. Is that what it is? 0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:11.720 Or is it infrastructure? Tech? Infrastructure? 0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:14.960 It's actually all of that, right, So when we think 0:36:15.000 --> 0:36:18.719 of back office, we think of things that power the operations. Right, 0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:21.319 think of a home health agency of back offices. How 0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:24.400 do they do scheduling, how do they do billing? Right 0:36:24.440 --> 0:36:27.799 those pieces our solutions do those, but also how do 0:36:27.920 --> 0:36:29.160 they deliver care. 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:29.480 In the home. 0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:32.960 How do they engage with patients via tell health of 0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:36.680 video visits, how do they determine how to assess a 0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:38.799 patent and what types of content that they need to 0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:41.680 provide the patient. From an educational perspective, we run the 0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:44.359 full spectrum of all of those, both in home as 0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:48.440 well as in specialty care areas like l tax and 0:36:48.480 --> 0:36:52.319 sniffs and home infusion. Really all of posts acute care 0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:56.560 and our solutions also power discharge planning in hospitals as well. 0:36:57.160 --> 0:36:59.840 So talk to me about what you're seeing from the hospitals, 0:36:59.840 --> 0:37:02.439 from the insurance companies at the end of last year 0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:05.120 and going into this year. I mean, Carol said it 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:08.800 spend certainly a big part of this. How are the 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:10.560 how is spending right now? 0:37:10.880 --> 0:37:13.840 Well, it's a huge piece of it. Right as you mentioned, 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:17.439 healthcare spend really in our country continues to be something 0:37:17.480 --> 0:37:19.759 we're all challenged with. I think what we're seeing from 0:37:19.800 --> 0:37:21.680 our providers is they want to make sure as the 0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:26.480 spend increase, that they're getting more ways to augment and 0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:30.719 support their very limited staff. And so that sort of 0:37:30.760 --> 0:37:33.520 thinking about the trends of what are our clients saying, Look, 0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:37.080 their most costly expense is their staff, and staff are 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.200 becoming harder and harder to come by. We're seeing shortages 0:37:40.239 --> 0:37:43.440 both in skilled and non skilled care. In fact, in 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:46.320 the next five years, we're expecting to see a shortage 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:50.480 of three point two million essential low wage healthcare workers, 0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:54.200 and so they're really looking to us as technology services 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:58.400 and analytics providers to help them with technology solutions that 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:02.319 allow them to work with less people but process more patients. So, 0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:04.359 if you ask, you know what's happening as we look 0:38:04.360 --> 0:38:07.600 at from last year, Feminine, in this year, we're still 0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:12.000 seeing our healthcare systems, you know, heavily utilized, still dealing 0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:16.560 with large volumes of COVID patients. We're seeing increased discharges 0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:21.000 to skilled nursing facilities, increased discharges to home health, which 0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:23.600 means that patients are coming out sicker, they're not able 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:25.480 to just go home on their own, They're needing to 0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:28.879 have follow up care, skilled care, either again in skilled 0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:31.760 nursing facilities or the home. So a lot of pressure 0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:33.240 on the healthcare system in general. 0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:36.560 What's cool with talking about this with someone like yourself? 0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:38.719 You know, your title is chief Solutions Officers, so you're 0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.319 obviously working with companies to kind of figure out how 0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:43.839 you guys can help them with some of their back 0:38:43.880 --> 0:38:46.960 office or our IT spend and needs, if you will. 0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:50.000 Having said that, you know, Amy, we're at this interesting 0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:52.320 point new year. We're kind of thinking and trying to 0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:54.960 figure out what comes ahead. There's a lot of questions 0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:58.959 about that in terms of the economy, what the FED does, 0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:01.920 how that impacts growth potentially. So having said that, IT 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:05.440 spend is always an important indicator. We always feel how 0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:09.000 would you compare the IT spend and what you're getting 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:11.120 from some of the clients that you work with in 0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:15.360 figuring out solutions. Is it going down compared to I 0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:17.640 don't know what's the smart metric the past six months, 0:39:17.719 --> 0:39:22.280 the past year. Is it slowing down? Our companies thinking 0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.239 really hard before they do an additional IT spend right 0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:27.879 now here on January third, twenty twenty four. 0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:33.360 You know, that's an interesting question. We are seeing more scrutiny. 0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:35.839 So I think that to that point, we are seeing 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:39.800 more scrutiny of the spend. We're being asked to deliver 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:44.279 more outcomes and value, which frankly we embrace. And what 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:46.360 I mean by that is they know they have to 0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:48.920 spend the dollars because they have to solve these problems 0:39:49.000 --> 0:39:52.400 like these staffing shortages, problems in the higher volumes of 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:54.759 patients that they're seeing. So what they're saying to us is, 0:39:55.760 --> 0:39:59.320 as we spend this money, we want in some cases 0:39:59.440 --> 0:40:02.680 share bris so tell us what kind of outcomes we're 0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:05.799 going to achieve with your technology, and go at risk 0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:09.520 with us so that if those outcomes don't emerge, you 0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:11.239 have a little bit of a skin in the game. 0:40:12.160 --> 0:40:15.200 We see longer cycles for making decisions. We're seeing some 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:18.759 of that longer decision making cycles. But I would say 0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:22.200 in general, they're still spending money. They're just being more 0:40:22.239 --> 0:40:25.200 scrutinius in terms of what the expectations are. I think, 0:40:25.239 --> 0:40:26.200 in a really good. 0:40:26.040 --> 0:40:28.680 Way, help that in a recessionary way. 0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:31.279 I will tell you that while we have seen the 0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:36.080 cycles take longer, we're still we're still having those effective 0:40:36.120 --> 0:40:40.759 sales processes. Okay, but the conversations are getting tougher, and 0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:43.360 again I will give them credit for that. Conversations getting 0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:45.839 tougher around. Show us the outcomes, show us the. 0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:48.160 ROI great count the ROI we're going to get. 0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:49.680 Yeah, it's interesting. 0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:52.640 Yeah, Amy, Thank you so much. Amy Shellhart, chief Solutions 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:56.120 Officer of at Well skyt jetting us on zoom from Springfield, Missouri. 0:40:56.160 --> 0:40:59.440 Conversations on it spend getting harder. That's my thought for 0:40:59.480 --> 0:40:59.799 the day. 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:00.719 This is Bloomberg. 0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:07.799 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:11.920 live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, 0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:15.320 the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:18.520 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:22.080 Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg. Eleven thirty. 0:41:23.280 --> 0:41:26.960 US regulators for the first time approving ETFs that invest 0:41:27.000 --> 0:41:30.080 directly in bitcoin. This is a move heralded as a 0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:33.280 landmark event for the roughly one point seven trillion dollar 0:41:33.400 --> 0:41:37.480 asset industry, the digital assets sector that will broaden access 0:41:37.520 --> 0:41:41.640 to the largest cryptocurrency on Wall Street and beyond. The SEC, 0:41:41.760 --> 0:41:46.280 whose three part mandate includes investor protection authorized eleven funds 0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:50.080 to begin trading on Thursday. Let's now go to Carol Masser, 0:41:50.120 --> 0:41:53.480 who's standing by with Kathy Wood, the CIO, CEO and 0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:55.280 co founder of ARC invest. 0:41:55.560 --> 0:41:57.440 All right, so, Kathy, what do you think about in 0:41:57.480 --> 0:41:59.520 this moment of time, as we said, this has been 0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:00.760 in coming. 0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:05.759 Yes, Well, when you're talking about institutions that you know, 0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:08.279 have been very fearful of this space, I think they're 0:42:08.280 --> 0:42:10.640 going to tread lightly. I don't know if you saw, 0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:15.239 but Gary Gensler put out a piece and he just 0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:19.000 denigrated the whole crypto space, and I was just like, 0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:24.720 I couldn't believe it. So anyway, it's with that kind 0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:29.080 of trepidation that institutions are going to have to, you know, 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:32.640 work through and do all of their due diligence. However, 0:42:33.000 --> 0:42:37.160 I do think that a lot of investors have been curious. 0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:41.680 And you'll see we've been from a marketing campaign. We've 0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:46.640 been using this tagline, aren't you a bit curious? There 0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:50.880 are so many people who are curious out there. Of course, 0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:54.920 a lot of our existing clients know all about bitcoin 0:42:55.000 --> 0:42:58.840 because we have owned it since twenty fifteen, but there 0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:01.920 are a lot of people who really have a hunger 0:43:01.960 --> 0:43:04.600 to know, and we can see that as more and 0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:09.160 more people read our research, tune into our Bitcoin Brainstorm 0:43:09.200 --> 0:43:14.120 that we do with Rod and Bitcoin Park in Nashville, Tennessee, 0:43:14.960 --> 0:43:19.800 read our bitcoin monthlies, we are getting all the curiosity. 0:43:19.840 --> 0:43:22.200 I think that's why we started, so we know a 0:43:22.239 --> 0:43:25.200 lot of people are waiting and believe it or not, Carol, 0:43:25.680 --> 0:43:31.680 the curious extend to state pension funds and state treasurers 0:43:31.760 --> 0:43:32.560 we're talking to. 0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:36.160 It's a really broad swap well catch people. 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:38.160 And I do wonder what you think success will be 0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:40.600 out of the gate in terms of investment flows, which 0:43:40.600 --> 0:43:44.399 your goal or estimate in terms of bringing investors into 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:44.880 the fund. 0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:46.440 Well, it's very interesting. 0:43:46.520 --> 0:43:52.120 I was speaking to Eric Beltunis, your colleague, and according 0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:56.600 to his estimates, there's four billion dollars waiting in the wings, 0:43:57.000 --> 0:43:59.759 and I said to him, well, from your lips to 0:43:59.880 --> 0:44:04.520 God's ears, that would be amazing, and we hope we 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:06.800 get our fair share of it. I mean, we've certainly 0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:11.320 done a lot to educate the community, and we experience 0:44:11.400 --> 0:44:15.200 a lot of gratitude for that too from the innovation communities, 0:44:15.239 --> 0:44:19.520 including the bitcoin community, but also from the financial community, 0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:23.240 those who really are trying to find the net big idea. 0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:29.000 The old guard basically throw out there all kinds of risks, 0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:33.640 and you know, some people call it fear, uncertainty and doubt. 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:37.520 It happens every time, Carol, And I'm not saying it's 0:44:37.560 --> 0:44:40.640 a bad thing for people to really do their homework. 0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:43.720 They should do their homework, they should understand the risks. 0:44:44.280 --> 0:44:48.360 But this is par for the course in disruptive innovation. 0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:52.279 This is completely new DNA, and so it's the old 0:44:52.400 --> 0:44:57.799 DNA basically bashing the old new DNA. But truth wins out. 0:44:58.080 --> 0:44:59.319 Truth wins out ye. 0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:01.520 And one thing I want to ask you is as 0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:04.279 like yourself, all of us here in the newsroom, you know, 0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:07.120 watching just you know, new things come into the market 0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:11.560 over decades, and this is certainly interesting, but we are 0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:13.960 still wondering about the real case use I mean that 0:45:14.080 --> 0:45:17.160 no one has really demonstrated a real life use case 0:45:17.440 --> 0:45:18.719 when it comes to bitcoin. 0:45:19.320 --> 0:45:20.800 We think about it all the time. 0:45:21.560 --> 0:45:25.239 Our first paper, white paper, was all about could bitcoin 0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:29.040 serve the three rolls of money means of exchange, store 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:31.720 of value, unit of account. Most people are thinking store 0:45:31.719 --> 0:45:35.560 of value right now. But I'm going to plug one 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:40.640 of our bitcoin brainstorms if you want a mind blowing experience. 0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:45.360 And I am lucky to be able to ask questions 0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:49.560 on these brainstorms, which was about the convergence of bitcoin 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:55.960 and artificial intelligence. And we had on people who are 0:45:56.280 --> 0:46:00.319 toiling to make all of this happen. And I have 0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:03.200 to tell you what's going on in the emerging markets 0:46:03.280 --> 0:46:07.640 and the division of labor, the redefinition of labor a 0:46:07.719 --> 0:46:11.080 little bit like what happened to the gig economy here, 0:46:11.239 --> 0:46:12.799 but put that on steroids. 0:46:12.840 --> 0:46:17.480 Put that on steroids. It's already starting to happen. So 0:46:17.560 --> 0:46:18.200 I would. 0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:23.320 Highly, highly highly advise anyone interested in trying to figure 0:46:23.320 --> 0:46:26.839 out how the world is going to work listen to 0:46:27.000 --> 0:46:30.200 that Bitcoin brainstorm, because it's already starting to work in 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:32.680 the emerging markets where they need it so desperately. 0:46:32.920 --> 0:46:36.840 Kathy, what's the advantage of the arc spot Bitcoin ETF 0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:38.960 over the others who also got approved? You know, we've 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:41.440 been reporting a lot about this kind of war on fees. 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:44.960 So what's the advantage of going with you versus a 0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:46.839 black Rock or a Fidelity or some of the other 0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:48.040 players who are out there? 0:46:48.320 --> 0:46:51.400 At least three advantages? Carol. 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:55.800 First, we selected our partner very carefully. Twenty one Shares 0:46:56.560 --> 0:47:02.239 is the largest peer play crypto ETP provider in the 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:05.000 world with two and a half billion dollars in assets. 0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:09.960 So what does that mean. That means with their forty 0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:13.000 funds before we launched with them, with their forty funds 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:18.360 launched over five years, they have battle tested their infrastructure 0:47:18.960 --> 0:47:25.720 over booms and busts, over crises, over havings, over four kings. 0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:28.719 This is not normal for the ETF world, and we 0:47:28.800 --> 0:47:32.960 think the other ETF providers have a lot to learn, 0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:36.719 and I'm sure they are and they will as we 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:41.120 go through these different kinds of experiences and they have 0:47:41.320 --> 0:47:44.920 economies of scale, believe it or not, that have enabled 0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:49.040 us to drive down our fees. This way, we have 0:47:49.120 --> 0:47:53.040 more economies of scale because of the infrastructure that twenty 0:47:53.080 --> 0:47:54.200 one shares have built out. 0:47:54.239 --> 0:47:55.040 So that's the first. 0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:59.640 The second is research. Both of us give our research 0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:03.520 a w for free. Our research started in twenty fourteen. 0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:06.839 We were trying to understand the technology, and then when 0:48:07.440 --> 0:48:13.080 Chris Berniski took over, we fast forwarded into understanding bitcoin 0:48:13.200 --> 0:48:15.759 is money and then a new asset class. So we 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:21.040 have been taking our clients' perspective. Clients, anyone who wants 0:48:21.040 --> 0:48:25.120 to read our research, this journey with us through deep, 0:48:25.280 --> 0:48:30.759 deep research, and it's getting deeper under Yassin's leadership. So 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:34.200 that's the second and then the third, and this one 0:48:34.320 --> 0:48:37.719 is not to be underestimated us, especially when it comes 0:48:37.800 --> 0:48:43.520 to the wirehouses like the Morgan Stanley's, the Merri Lynch, 0:48:43.640 --> 0:48:50.000 the ubs Wells Fargo. Our salesforce, our distributor has had 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:56.760 our etf specials. Specialists have had to understand bitcoin since 0:48:56.800 --> 0:49:01.680 we struck our partnership in twenty sixteen. Story Rebecca Burke, 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:06.600 who's our most senior ETF specialist joked with me the 0:49:06.640 --> 0:49:09.200 other day she said, do you know when I was 0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:15.000 coming to interview to I looked up what is bitcoin? 0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:19.000 And we all laughed about it because now she not 0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:23.600 only understands it, she believes in it. Her conviction is 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:26.920 how she's able to share that message and hold client's 0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:32.680 hands when bitcoin goes through some of the volatility that 0:49:32.719 --> 0:49:35.959 we see it go through regularly. So I think those 0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:41.280 three we have the infrastructure and operations. We have the research, 0:49:41.440 --> 0:49:44.360 deep research, and we've been doing it longer than anyone else. 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:49.120 And three we have a support team a sales team 0:49:49.600 --> 0:49:51.959 that I don't think anyone else out there can beat 0:49:52.120 --> 0:49:56.040 because we've been doing it together for seven years already. 0:49:56.320 --> 0:49:59.360 And the same for twenty one Shares. More on the 0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:03.680 institution side, they have been working with their clients for 0:50:03.800 --> 0:50:04.520 five years. 0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:07.480 One of the things we wondered about, Kathy, what is 0:50:07.520 --> 0:50:10.200 the recourse if a custodian who holds the keys to 0:50:10.239 --> 0:50:13.040 bitcoin loses them, you know, are they're hacked. What's the 0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:14.200 investor recourse? 0:50:14.719 --> 0:50:18.399 You know what we have with us on those call 0:50:19.360 --> 0:50:22.480 Ophelia and Hanny, who are the founders of twenty one 0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:27.520 Shares this. You're talking about infrastructure operations. This is what 0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:30.960 I'm talking about. May I open up the floor to them. 0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:32.279 Aphelia, you want to come in on that. 0:50:32.600 --> 0:50:35.000 You are a partnership. You know it's a partnership with you. 0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:37.239 At our absolutely, what's your thought on that in terms 0:50:37.239 --> 0:50:41.520 of concerns that if something happens, if it is hacked, 0:50:41.640 --> 0:50:42.920 what's the investor recourse? 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:46.200 So people are completely right to be concerned. This is 0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:49.360 the whole point. This is not like stocks and bonds. 0:50:49.400 --> 0:50:53.640 This requires a very different level of infrastructure, and so 0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:57.719 I think the first step in this discussion is very 0:50:57.840 --> 0:51:01.920 clearly prevention. You need to billed as robust of a 0:51:02.040 --> 0:51:04.680 setup as possible, and you need to battle test it. 0:51:04.719 --> 0:51:08.960 So we've been battle testing our implementations with custodians, our 0:51:09.040 --> 0:51:11.760 technical infrastructure, in the way in which we safeguard assets 0:51:12.160 --> 0:51:16.080 for five years. That's the entire point. You can't treat 0:51:16.080 --> 0:51:18.799 this like any other asset in the world. It's a 0:51:18.800 --> 0:51:21.160 bearer asset and it's held in a very technical way. 0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:23.000 So one of the things that we do is we 0:51:23.040 --> 0:51:27.280 obviously we use a concept called cold storage. That means 0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:30.640 is that these assets are held offline in wallets, that 0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:34.520 have never been brought into the Internet, so you've never 0:51:34.680 --> 0:51:38.440 used them before, which means that they are the information 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:40.720 related to the private key doesn't exist on the Internet. 0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:42.440 It's sort of you can think of it as the 0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:46.640 diametric opposite of cloud storage. You essentially end up with 0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:50.080 a private key that's been charted, so it's been split 0:51:50.080 --> 0:51:52.760 into multiple pieces, and you need to bring multiple pieces 0:51:52.760 --> 0:51:55.799 online at the same time. Those pieces are held in 0:51:55.920 --> 0:52:01.240 vaults that are geographically distributed in order to control access 0:52:01.320 --> 0:52:04.359 to these products, and then we obviously have a really 0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:07.239 robust set of controls around that in terms of how 0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:11.520 you initiate transfers and how you actually move assets, because 0:52:11.560 --> 0:52:15.800 the most dangerous part of custody is actually very much 0:52:16.239 --> 0:52:18.760 the point at which you access it right. Very frequently, 0:52:18.840 --> 0:52:20.759 you know, when people say, oh, somebody took over my 0:52:20.800 --> 0:52:24.960 exchange account, the underlying wallet's not being hacked. What's actually 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:28.600 happening is that their security and access protocols are being 0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:31.759 compromised in some way. And so it's really important how 0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:34.719 you actually secure these assets and why you need to 0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:37.319 go with a provider that's actually going has a track 0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:40.560 record of doing this and knows what they're doing through 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:43.120 a variety of market conditions because this is actually a 0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:44.960 very very technical space. 0:52:45.160 --> 0:52:47.520 I appreciate that Ophilias Night, our co founder president of 0:52:47.600 --> 0:52:50.720 twenty one years, and of course offering up the Bitcoin 0:52:50.800 --> 0:52:54.200 ETF with our investments, Kathy. One thing I also think 0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:58.440 as concerns about the price of bitcoin, the volatility. The 0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:00.880 last three full year returns means of three hundred and 0:53:00.920 --> 0:53:04.480 five percent twenty twenty up another sixty twenty one, followed 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:06.879 by a loss of sixty four percent twenty twenty two. 0:53:07.080 --> 0:53:08.759 It's a market that can move around. We saw a 0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:12.120 little bit of a pop at bitcoin. Will volatility continue 0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:14.520 to be a risk or something that investors have to 0:53:14.560 --> 0:53:17.200 be very much aware of? And I'm curious, what is 0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:19.400 your price forecast at this point now that you've got 0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:21.240 the SEC approval for bitcoin. 0:53:21.560 --> 0:53:27.719 The volatility, this again is natural for disruptive innovation that 0:53:28.160 --> 0:53:34.320 is taking market share in any market. So it's it's normal, Carol. 0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:40.399 You've seen from our funt how disruptive innovation can can 0:53:40.440 --> 0:53:45.600 be affected by exogitiveness factors that don't have anything to 0:53:45.680 --> 0:53:49.440 do with the share they're actually gaining. In fact, we 0:53:49.560 --> 0:53:53.959 know that during tough times, innovation gains more traction because 0:53:53.960 --> 0:53:58.239 it's better, cheaper, faster, more productive, and so forth and this, 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:01.239 And you saw this during the regional bank crisis. The 0:54:01.440 --> 0:54:06.480 regional banks imploded, the krry index imploded, we saw bankruptcies, 0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:09.040 and bitcoin shot up forty percent. 0:54:09.680 --> 0:54:12.040 Why, it's a flight to safety. 0:54:12.120 --> 0:54:15.400 It will not be a victim of counter of counterparty 0:54:15.480 --> 0:54:19.560 risk the way the banks will. So it's it's actually 0:54:19.600 --> 0:54:22.000 as time goes on and we go through more and 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:25.840 more crises, and it seems the way government spending and 0:54:25.880 --> 0:54:29.759 monetary policies go, you know that that is not going 0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:34.640 to change. I think bitcoin is going to prove it's 0:54:34.680 --> 0:54:37.120 worth you know, one thing in terms of price, and 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:39.959 then I'd like to just talk about fees because that's 0:54:39.960 --> 0:54:44.880 so contest. Yes, so our price target, our our bull 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:50.640 price target, and I would say institutional money moving in 0:54:51.040 --> 0:54:55.919 makes our bull price target more likely. Now is one 0:54:55.960 --> 0:54:59.759 point five million dollars in twenty thirty and you can 0:54:59.800 --> 0:55:03.839 see and big ideas are big ideas from last year 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:10.120 ar at ark dash invest ourdash invest dot com. How 0:55:10.200 --> 0:55:13.960 we the building blocks for that number, and institutional is 0:55:14.000 --> 0:55:19.160 one of the biggest reasons in terms of fees. You'll 0:55:19.160 --> 0:55:23.160 notice twenty one that's a very special number. First of all, 0:55:23.280 --> 0:55:27.279 those are our partners twenty one but also twenty one 0:55:27.600 --> 0:55:32.200 million units, our twenty one million bitcoin. That is the 0:55:32.360 --> 0:55:37.000 total number that will be printed or minted right there. 0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:39.920 It will not go past twenty one million. This is 0:55:39.960 --> 0:55:45.440 called this is called a rules based monetary system. And 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:51.480 so the fee, we thought that was clever, and we 0:55:51.480 --> 0:55:53.520 were going to start out with that one, but we 0:55:53.600 --> 0:55:55.680 knew what was going to happen, so we ended up there. 0:55:56.200 --> 0:55:59.560 But I want to bring back something I mentioned other before. 0:55:59.840 --> 0:56:04.399 We already have the economies of scale that others do 0:56:04.480 --> 0:56:08.839 not because of our partner twenty one shares, and so 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:12.719 we've been able to negotiate down service provider fees in 0:56:12.719 --> 0:56:14.480 a way that we would not have been able to 0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:17.960 if we had done this by ourselves. And the other 0:56:18.000 --> 0:56:21.560 thing I want to emphasize we are not looking to 0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:27.719 maximize profits with this. We are looking at bitcoin as 0:56:27.719 --> 0:56:33.640 a public good. It is a financial super highway and 0:56:33.920 --> 0:56:38.680 we want to increase the access to bitcoin, and one 0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:41.480 of the ways to do that is this low fee product. 0:56:41.840 --> 0:56:46.560 We have other actively managed strategies where we can do 0:56:46.640 --> 0:56:50.440 more on the profitability side. Right, it is not our objective. 0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:52.560 Here, Kathy, just one last question and that I'm glad 0:56:52.560 --> 0:56:54.919 we got that thirty seconds is to wrap up. I mean, 0:56:54.960 --> 0:56:57.640 what does success look for you guys in a year 0:56:57.680 --> 0:56:59.680 from now with this particular product. 0:57:00.040 --> 0:57:03.399 Well, I think I think we will be a part 0:57:03.440 --> 0:57:06.840 of the success of bitcoin broadly. I think this opens 0:57:06.840 --> 0:57:10.680 a new chapter for bitcoin, and I would like to 0:57:10.719 --> 0:57:14.480 believe we would we will be within the top top 0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:21.160 three or two top providers of bitcoin through this Bitcoin ETF. 0:57:21.520 --> 0:57:23.560 All right, just lastly, as you know I like to 0:57:23.560 --> 0:57:27.520 squeeze and stuff fifteen seconds. Is there new cryptocurrent products 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:30.120 ETFs that might come out from you guys as well 0:57:30.360 --> 0:57:31.160 in the near future. 0:57:31.360 --> 0:57:35.040 Well, we already put with twenty one shares out five 0:57:35.280 --> 0:57:36.440 futures products. 0:57:36.440 --> 0:57:37.960 Those are strategy. 0:57:38.120 --> 0:57:41.040 One last thing I'd like to I'd like to honor 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:44.400 all of those who have toiled to make bitcoin happen 0:57:45.160 --> 0:57:46.320 through this ETF. 0:57:46.360 --> 0:57:49.960 I want to reassure the community, the bitcoin community. 0:57:50.000 --> 0:57:50.320 That. 0:57:51.680 --> 0:57:57.480 Self custody, self custody and an etfre are not mutually exclusive. 0:57:57.640 --> 0:58:02.600 We want to see this eco system continue to decentralize, 0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:08.000 but we want to bring billions of people into the ecosystem. 0:58:08.200 --> 0:58:11.160 And this is why twenty one basis points. 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:12.200 ARKB. 0:58:12.840 --> 0:58:15.880 Kathy, I so appreciate you including me on this platform, 0:58:15.920 --> 0:58:18.480 Kathy would Arc invest founder CEO Cio. 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:22.600 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:58:22.600 --> 0:58:26.040 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on. 0:58:26.040 --> 0:58:28.880 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the. 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:33.520 Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:58:33.720 --> 0:58:44.640 I always be hey, did you know that Bloomberg Intelligence 0:58:44.680 --> 0:58:48.160 tracks some two thousand companies in sectors ranging from finance 0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:48.560 to food. 0:58:48.760 --> 0:58:49.920 They watch a lot of stuff. 0:58:50.080 --> 0:58:52.040 We got a great team. It's like the in house 0:58:52.840 --> 0:58:54.720 analysis group Bloomberg Intelligence. 0:58:54.800 --> 0:58:55.600 It absolutely is. 0:58:55.640 --> 0:58:58.480 And you know what they did, tim They found fifty companies. 0:58:58.160 --> 0:59:01.760 Yep, that weren't a closer looks Onbi's list a focus idea. 0:59:01.840 --> 0:59:04.520 I knew this because it's an annual tradition that Bloomberg 0:59:04.560 --> 0:59:06.560 BusinessWeek does. It's a deep dive at the beginning of 0:59:06.560 --> 0:59:10.400 the year. It combines contrarian views and upcoming catalysts for change, 0:59:10.400 --> 0:59:13.880 such as new leadership, asset sales, or acquisitions. Perhaps plans 0:59:13.880 --> 0:59:15.440 for new products and services too well. 0:59:15.440 --> 0:59:18.160 The future is in the upcoming New Year Ahead issue 0:59:18.200 --> 0:59:20.439 of Bloomberg business Week available on newstands later this week, 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:22.840 already online and on the Bloomberg terminal. Let's get to 0:59:22.960 --> 0:59:26.040 a Tim Craighead, Senior European strategist and director of Research 0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:30.360 Content for Bloomberg Intelligence out there in London. Jill Weber 0:59:30.440 --> 0:59:32.040 is the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He's right here 0:59:32.080 --> 0:59:36.000 in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Jill always do love 0:59:36.040 --> 0:59:39.840 this list and how it comes together. Remind our world 0:59:40.000 --> 0:59:43.400 who are watching and listening, how it does actually come together, 0:59:43.440 --> 0:59:44.560 how these names are chosen. 0:59:44.880 --> 0:59:50.760 Many conversations, and the analyst said, Bloomberg Intelligence just a 0:59:50.800 --> 0:59:54.160 great team to work with and effectively, if I could 0:59:54.320 --> 0:59:58.840 condense what this project is, they take their whole universe 0:59:58.880 --> 1:00:01.040 and then squeeze it through a spreadsheet and what you're 1:00:01.040 --> 1:00:03.160 looking is what comes out on the other side. These 1:00:03.160 --> 1:00:06.120 are not by cell recommendations. We're not going to go 1:00:06.120 --> 1:00:09.040 go there, but we do think they're ones to watch. 1:00:09.280 --> 1:00:12.880 And we've been doing this project for years with this team. 1:00:13.080 --> 1:00:15.560 It seems like it gets better and better every single 1:00:15.600 --> 1:00:18.200 time we do it. We do quarterly updates now. A 1:00:18.280 --> 1:00:21.040 lot of these are these focus ideas that the team 1:00:21.120 --> 1:00:26.160 has a ton of conviction about uh. And we're looking 1:00:26.200 --> 1:00:29.200 often for like things that appear like catalysts, especially as 1:00:29.240 --> 1:00:31.800 we go through the year and do these quarterly updates. 1:00:31.520 --> 1:00:33.880 Which would be good for a name or bad or bad. 1:00:33.760 --> 1:00:36.520 Yeah, and there's something that feels almost like a trigger 1:00:37.560 --> 1:00:39.520 this group, though this is as big as we get. 1:00:39.560 --> 1:00:42.400 We do these fifty and it really feels like we're 1:00:42.400 --> 1:00:45.680 trying to reach around the globe, give you some discoverability. 1:00:45.800 --> 1:00:47.720 Like there will be companies that I think we're going 1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:50.000 to talk about right now that you will have never 1:00:50.080 --> 1:00:52.400 heard about, Carol, I expect you to chime up when 1:00:52.440 --> 1:00:56.000 that happens. And then there are other ones that you're like, Okay, 1:00:56.160 --> 1:00:58.920 what I know this name alphabet? 1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:00.479 But why the year? 1:01:01.440 --> 1:01:05.720 But big thanks to Tim and company in advance. One 1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:08.280 of the things that I think we would be foolish 1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:11.000 not to consider is coming off of last year where 1:01:11.160 --> 1:01:15.480 artificial intelligence became such a dominant theme, there's a whole 1:01:15.520 --> 1:01:19.200 group of companies within the fifty that sort of are 1:01:19.840 --> 1:01:22.800 first and foremost going to be AI stories. Tim, So 1:01:22.840 --> 1:01:24.840 why don't we just start with that. We have not 1:01:25.600 --> 1:01:28.120 when you come to this online or at the terminal, 1:01:28.400 --> 1:01:30.760 this list of companies is just going to be alphabetical. 1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:32.880 But we did a little bit of a courtesy here, 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:36.560 some modest groupings so that we could kind of talk 1:01:36.600 --> 1:01:40.640 through some of these companies. So alphabet and artificial intelligence 1:01:40.720 --> 1:01:45.520 is that they're not the front runner right now, right Tim. 1:01:44.560 --> 1:01:47.200 Yeah, Well, I have to say it's really interesting, thanks 1:01:47.240 --> 1:01:52.360 for having me on. Artificial intelligence had such hype in 1:01:52.400 --> 1:01:57.080 twenty twenty three, you kind of think, Okay, so what's left? 1:01:57.080 --> 1:01:59.600 Why is this a big deal now? And you might 1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:03.960 think of about that chart of the Gartner type cycle, 1:02:04.240 --> 1:02:05.840 and you know, are we're right at the top before 1:02:05.840 --> 1:02:09.640 it crashes into you know, overdone. We don't think so. 1:02:10.080 --> 1:02:13.560 And there's two elements to this. And actually we just 1:02:13.600 --> 1:02:24.080 published a pretty important Chief Information Officer CIO study survey 1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:28.840 over the last couple of days that stignaled that companies 1:02:28.880 --> 1:02:33.160 were just modeling things in twenty twenty three, and they 1:02:33.200 --> 1:02:38.040 have significant plans to accelerate actual implementation in twenty twenty 1:02:38.040 --> 1:02:41.520 four and twenty five. At the same time, we had 1:02:41.920 --> 1:02:44.920 a tech spending cycle that was in a lull in 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:48.960 twenty twenty three that we think also will accelerate later 1:02:49.040 --> 1:02:52.000 in twenty twenty four. And you can take those things together. 1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:56.400 Companies that are in the eye of this opportunity are 1:02:56.400 --> 1:02:58.720 a big deal and there's a couple of elements that 1:02:58.760 --> 1:03:01.000 play into this and it is the biggest bucket, if 1:03:01.000 --> 1:03:06.120 you will. Across the fifty. There's infrastructure companies like applebet 1:03:06.200 --> 1:03:10.680 they are creating the infrastructure Barred for example, or Gemini 1:03:10.720 --> 1:03:14.680 in terms of different programs and whatnot that you can 1:03:14.880 --> 1:03:20.320 use generative AI with your business. Amazon you think about 1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:23.080 their retail, but actually one of the biggest businesses they 1:03:23.120 --> 1:03:29.600 have is there're a cloud business that supports AI applications 1:03:29.640 --> 1:03:34.400 for companies. Accenture is a big IT services company and 1:03:34.440 --> 1:03:38.480 they're a consultancy that executes on programs with companies that 1:03:38.640 --> 1:03:42.280 need the advice and counsel. So that's one level and 1:03:42.320 --> 1:03:44.320 not to go too crazy about this. But then you've 1:03:44.360 --> 1:03:49.120 also got applications that you think about get into it. 1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:53.600 You know Turbo tax, if you use that to do 1:03:53.640 --> 1:03:58.200 your taxes. They're starting to implement AI within their programs 1:03:58.240 --> 1:04:01.600 to make tax prep easier. We all know how complicated 1:04:01.640 --> 1:04:07.240 that is. Match Okay, this is a fun one tender. 1:04:08.360 --> 1:04:08.840 Hinge. 1:04:08.880 --> 1:04:14.480 If anybody's listening who uses these dating apps, there's AI 1:04:14.600 --> 1:04:19.720 applications being folded into tender for better photo selection. So 1:04:20.080 --> 1:04:22.520 there's all sorts of stuff going on here from AI 1:04:22.720 --> 1:04:24.040 that we think will gather steam. 1:04:24.200 --> 1:04:26.320 Well, can't wait for the matchmaking. 1:04:28.040 --> 1:04:28.400 Selection. 1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:31.040 Really careful what you wish for. I just want to 1:04:31.040 --> 1:04:32.600 point out and video is not on that list, but 1:04:32.600 --> 1:04:35.640 it's already the sixth best gainer in the s and 1:04:35.680 --> 1:04:37.480 P five hundred, number six on the list, which was 1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:39.320 you know, the top gainer. But you do have a 1:04:39.400 --> 1:04:41.920 name in that list which will all take us back 1:04:41.920 --> 1:04:45.200 to the seventies or some of us back to the seventies. Disco. 1:04:45.320 --> 1:04:48.200 What have you heard of Disco? Well, yes, but have 1:04:48.240 --> 1:04:50.200 you heard of the company Disco? 1:04:50.440 --> 1:04:52.760 Who are they? 1:04:52.880 --> 1:04:57.840 So? Disco is in the stemic inductor equipment business. It's 1:04:57.880 --> 1:05:05.280 a Japanese company, And essentially, as you make the semiconductors 1:05:05.280 --> 1:05:13.840 that fold into Nvidia solutions and other advanced semiconductors that 1:05:13.920 --> 1:05:18.400 support AI, you have to have special equipment to make 1:05:19.000 --> 1:05:23.080 those semiconductors, and Disco is one of those key key 1:05:23.320 --> 1:05:28.800 companies in the equipment spycle, along with some others. But 1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:31.200 we think that this is one that is not quite 1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:33.720 appreciated for the opportunity in front of them. 1:05:34.440 --> 1:05:37.800 I just love that there's this whole suite of companies 1:05:37.920 --> 1:05:42.680 in artificial intelligence that you know, suddenly a chatbot comes along, 1:05:42.760 --> 1:05:45.400 and now we're talking about you know, three, five, ten 1:05:45.440 --> 1:05:47.080 years out. These are some of the companies that I 1:05:47.080 --> 1:05:49.280 think you're going to be talking about a lot more. 1:05:50.080 --> 1:05:50.440 Okay. 1:05:50.560 --> 1:05:55.840 Another big theme tim as we look into next year 1:05:55.960 --> 1:05:59.480 is these expected rate comes cuts from the Fed. But 1:05:59.760 --> 1:06:01.840 they're Feds out alone. There's also going to be some 1:06:01.880 --> 1:06:06.000 pivots at other central banks. Who are some companies that 1:06:06.560 --> 1:06:08.520 could be winners and losers out of that? 1:06:09.680 --> 1:06:12.280 Yeah, i'd sell you. This is another interesting one where 1:06:13.200 --> 1:06:18.000 we had interest rate stories last year, as you might recall, 1:06:18.160 --> 1:06:22.919 but they were margin expansion stories because industrates were going 1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:27.120 up and that's generally good for financials like banks. This year, 1:06:27.280 --> 1:06:31.760 with the prospects of the US Federal Reserve or the 1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:35.200 Bank of England or the European Central Bank pivoting to 1:06:35.280 --> 1:06:39.440 start lowering interest rates, then it's the opposite. So we 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:44.320 actually have a broad industry negative focus idea on margin 1:06:44.520 --> 1:06:48.320 or profitability prospects for European banks. And Barclay's, one of 1:06:48.360 --> 1:06:51.840 the big UK banks, is a poster child of that. 1:06:52.920 --> 1:06:55.680 It also plays into the insurance business, and we have 1:06:55.880 --> 1:06:59.640 ACXA on the list. And not only do you have 1:06:59.720 --> 1:07:05.720 the falling interest rates, but there's also some industry regulatory 1:07:06.640 --> 1:07:11.160 changes that are occurring that should make insurance companies more 1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:13.680 interst rates sensitive, and so if you do have a 1:07:13.760 --> 1:07:16.920 reduction in interist rates, it's more likely to flow through 1:07:17.040 --> 1:07:20.240 into your earning since we think that complicates the insurance 1:07:20.280 --> 1:07:24.920 industry or access case. And point that said, on the 1:07:24.960 --> 1:07:30.520 flip of that, housing across elements of Europe and certainly 1:07:30.600 --> 1:07:34.160 the UK specifically have been under pressure and home builders 1:07:34.760 --> 1:07:38.960 have suffered housing starts or down a lot. A company 1:07:39.080 --> 1:07:42.600 named Percentment is on the list under the idea that 1:07:42.800 --> 1:07:47.480 it's likely to do better than what's anticipated from consensus 1:07:47.560 --> 1:07:50.440 as interest rates fall and how home building starts to 1:07:50.440 --> 1:07:51.040 pick up. Again. 1:07:51.120 --> 1:07:53.600 That was a name I had not heard before the list. Well, 1:07:53.600 --> 1:07:55.760 I love the project. It's like do you like your Simmons? 1:07:56.120 --> 1:08:00.000 I do, but you know you plies there, but. 1:08:00.080 --> 1:08:02.720 The adr trucks of the United States. 1:08:02.280 --> 1:08:04.000 That's truly, it's just like one of these things you 1:08:04.000 --> 1:08:06.320 would have never probably ran across the company like that, 1:08:06.360 --> 1:08:10.000 And in the middle of it all is a little 1:08:10.000 --> 1:08:11.440 bit of analysis. 1:08:11.920 --> 1:08:14.080 Tim, I got some Uh, there's some companies on here 1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:16.759 too that I think we're all familiar with. Aston Martin 1:08:16.960 --> 1:08:22.120 is a company that is categorized as releasing new products. 1:08:23.240 --> 1:08:25.200 Talk to us about why Aston Martin is one to watch. 1:08:26.280 --> 1:08:28.559 Yeah, I'll tell you if you if you look at 1:08:28.560 --> 1:08:31.519 Aston Martin that iPod back a couple of years ago, 1:08:31.800 --> 1:08:34.719 and it's been a bit of a of a dud. 1:08:35.280 --> 1:08:39.559 They've disappointed. Even though you know the company and you 1:08:39.600 --> 1:08:43.160 can you can visualize the cars in a James Von 1:08:43.360 --> 1:08:49.120 movie and they're super cool. It's not quite executed the 1:08:49.120 --> 1:08:51.760 plan of what was hoped. And as we look into 1:08:51.800 --> 1:08:55.680 twenty twenty four, they've got new sports cars come up, 1:08:55.720 --> 1:08:58.240 and they've got great names, the Advantage twelve it's a 1:08:58.280 --> 1:09:03.120 twelve cylinder car, or the valk here and there's others. 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:08.080 They got an Sue, yeah, Astmark and Suv and these 1:09:08.120 --> 1:09:12.280 are all we think accelerating growth. They're super high margin 1:09:12.360 --> 1:09:15.200 products and we think that you know, that's yet to 1:09:15.240 --> 1:09:17.720 be Uh. You have to be fully baked into what 1:09:18.160 --> 1:09:19.040 the market's thinking. 1:09:19.439 --> 1:09:23.000 Okay, So let's see we've got some M and a 1:09:23.400 --> 1:09:27.080 how if that goes down? If we you know, deals 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:30.759 were not exactly high on the list in twenty twenty 1:09:30.760 --> 1:09:33.840 three if twenty twenty four looks better, like who's to watch? 1:09:35.160 --> 1:09:38.559 Yeah, So the ones we have on here from an 1:09:38.720 --> 1:09:43.240 M and A perspective are taking advantage of transactions either 1:09:43.320 --> 1:09:46.080 that have lined up or that they have planned. So 1:09:47.240 --> 1:09:51.599 in the world of energy, Exxon made a very large 1:09:51.600 --> 1:09:57.040 purchase towards the end of last year to increase their 1:09:57.520 --> 1:10:00.960 exposure to the Permian Basin, you know, big old production 1:10:02.800 --> 1:10:07.320 field in the US, and this is going to be 1:10:07.320 --> 1:10:09.280 a year where they can start to execute on that. 1:10:09.439 --> 1:10:13.200 And you know, they have have underperformed in terms of 1:10:13.240 --> 1:10:17.280 their financial performance the likes of Chevron in various ways, 1:10:17.439 --> 1:10:19.960 and you know, this should be an opportunity for them 1:10:20.080 --> 1:10:24.040 to step things up energy transition and all that sort 1:10:24.040 --> 1:10:29.760 of stuff. Setting aside, Stavic Middle Eastern petrochemical company has 1:10:29.800 --> 1:10:31.920 also had a big steel business, so they're getting out 1:10:31.920 --> 1:10:34.559 of their steel business, which should allow them to focus 1:10:34.640 --> 1:10:38.439 in on petrochemicals specifically. And we do think that there's 1:10:38.479 --> 1:10:41.600 a fundamental upcycle they are going through the year, in 1:10:41.600 --> 1:10:44.400 particular in the second half. So those are a couple 1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:45.400 of elements there. 1:10:45.520 --> 1:10:47.519 Well, Hey, Tim just got about a minute and half 1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:50.439 left here consumer products. We're all focused on the consumer. 1:10:50.479 --> 1:10:52.280 Can they keep spending? But there's been a couple of 1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:55.400 companies I think about St. Laura that's been trying to 1:10:55.439 --> 1:10:59.960 kind of figure its way forward. You're watching that, Diagio Aritzia. 1:11:00.479 --> 1:11:02.080 Just quickly give us some thoughts on those. 1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:08.920 Yeah. So they're a whole host of good, big, quality 1:11:09.160 --> 1:11:12.240 brand companies if you think about the products himself, stay 1:11:12.280 --> 1:11:16.080 Lot Cosmetics across all of their brands, DAJO owns a 1:11:16.280 --> 1:11:21.360 number of high end spirits, and they've come under pressure 1:11:21.360 --> 1:11:23.559 over the course of the past six nine months for 1:11:23.600 --> 1:11:28.479 a variety of reasons. Stay Lauder had excess inventory in Asia, 1:11:28.680 --> 1:11:32.000 Diago had too much inventory in the US. We think 1:11:32.080 --> 1:11:34.559 that this is a year where that gets normalized and 1:11:34.600 --> 1:11:38.559 the underlying business of quality, high end product will play 1:11:38.600 --> 1:11:41.080 through with those two companies and they'll play catch up. 1:11:41.600 --> 1:11:44.640 And I have to Sayeah, that's super puff Parker. My sisters, 1:11:45.080 --> 1:11:47.280 you got it. My daughter had to have it. It 1:11:47.360 --> 1:11:49.920 comes into many, many different colors. 1:11:50.439 --> 1:11:54.000 Yeah, very expanding rapidly across the US from a Canadian base. 1:11:54.280 --> 1:11:55.120 Really cool stuff. 1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:55.760 M hm. 1:11:55.960 --> 1:11:59.839 This list well, last last little piece of the puzzle. 1:12:00.040 --> 1:12:00.839 Energy transition. 1:12:01.000 --> 1:12:04.240 We're gonna be short on time, but first solo byd 1:12:04.439 --> 1:12:09.080 Glenncore On that list, there's many, many, many more categories 1:12:09.320 --> 1:12:13.000 and companies. What's so great about it is you just 1:12:13.040 --> 1:12:14.519 get through this and then you go back to it 1:12:14.560 --> 1:12:16.160 at several points this in the year and you're. 1:12:16.040 --> 1:12:18.000 Like, oh, wow, look what they were talking about at 1:12:18.000 --> 1:12:18.559 the beginning. 1:12:18.360 --> 1:12:18.639 Of the year. 1:12:18.680 --> 1:12:21.360 So pay attention to us. Yeah, you know that's what 1:12:21.479 --> 1:12:25.000 the thing. We're actually smart, humble, bragg well, the Bloomberg 1:12:25.560 --> 1:12:27.200 let's not get ahead of ourself. So it's the Bloomberg 1:12:27.240 --> 1:12:30.240 Intelligence team is business Week. You know they're the smart ones. 1:12:30.320 --> 1:12:32.800 All right, great stuff. Check it out online on the 1:12:32.880 --> 1:12:35.479 Terminalis and the upcoming new issue of Bloomberg Business Week. 1:12:35.520 --> 1:12:38.559 Then you're a head issue, so appreciate it. Joe Webber, 1:12:38.560 --> 1:12:41.080 of course, editor of Bloomberg Business Week. In Tim craighead 1:12:41.240 --> 1:12:44.200 of our Bloomberg Intelligence Team. It's a killer list. 1:12:46.320 --> 1:12:49.880 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 1:12:49.920 --> 1:12:53.960 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 1:12:54.120 --> 1:12:57.439 the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen 1:12:57.520 --> 1:13:00.639 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship new York station, 1:13:00.960 --> 1:13:03.840 jo Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 1:13:05.439 --> 1:13:06.000 The story. 1:13:06.080 --> 1:13:08.800 First of all, it's based on a most read story 1:13:08.800 --> 1:13:10.920 on the Bloomberg Ternal. Today's about the Wall Street analyst 1:13:10.920 --> 1:13:13.640 who can deadlift more than four hundred pounds, who has 1:13:13.680 --> 1:13:17.040 the ear of JP Morgan, Chase's CEO, Jamie Dimond, someone 1:13:17.040 --> 1:13:20.360 who's gotten a handwritten letter from none other than Warren Buffett. 1:13:20.560 --> 1:13:22.400 And it's an analyst who has taken the covened top 1:13:22.400 --> 1:13:25.160 spot in the Institutional Investor Paul, a key barometer for 1:13:25.240 --> 1:13:27.799 Wall Street relevance the past four years. 1:13:28.040 --> 1:13:30.679 We're talking about none other than Wells Fargo banking analyst 1:13:30.760 --> 1:13:33.519 Mike Mayo, the subject of a profile Carol by none 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:37.679 other than Shrinota Rajen and Bree Bradham. Mike Mayo joins 1:13:37.760 --> 1:13:40.200 us on the phone from New York City. Shrees here 1:13:40.240 --> 1:13:43.799 to Carol in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. He's senior, 1:13:44.120 --> 1:13:45.960 He's Bloomberg News senior finance reporter. 1:13:45.960 --> 1:13:47.800 All right, First of all, Street great, great, great story. 1:13:47.840 --> 1:13:51.000 Everybody's reading it. Mike, so great to have you here 1:13:51.040 --> 1:13:53.160 with us. You are a closely followed voice when it 1:13:53.200 --> 1:13:55.080 comes to the big banks, which as we highlighted, has 1:13:55.080 --> 1:13:58.240 created some very unique and rare experiences for you. Letter 1:13:58.240 --> 1:14:01.479 from Buffett Jamie Diamonds. Listening to you what for you 1:14:01.600 --> 1:14:03.799 sometimes has you even saying, Wow, this is a pretty 1:14:03.960 --> 1:14:06.559 amazing access that I have in recognition. How do you 1:14:06.600 --> 1:14:07.720 feel about all of this? 1:14:08.520 --> 1:14:12.120 Well, first, I'd say wow to the power of Bloomberg 1:14:12.200 --> 1:14:17.280 Media and what the research journalists dug up with me 1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:21.439 and the comments they came back with. But I will 1:14:21.439 --> 1:14:25.600 say it's a right and it's a responsibility. I have 1:14:26.680 --> 1:14:28.360 the right to call it the way I see it, 1:14:28.400 --> 1:14:30.720 but they also have a responsibility to do it in 1:14:30.720 --> 1:14:34.720 a balanced way. But in response to the article, to 1:14:34.880 --> 1:14:40.360 all the companies that I've analyzed that didn't like my conclusions, 1:14:40.760 --> 1:14:44.000 or didn't like how I highlighted the shortfalls, or didn't 1:14:44.040 --> 1:14:47.720 like when I talked about compensation, or didn't like when 1:14:47.760 --> 1:14:51.519 I go to stareholder annual meetings and ask questions the 1:14:51.560 --> 1:14:54.040 management in front of their bosses, the boarder directors, or 1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:56.559 just didn't feel like I was on their side. What 1:14:56.640 --> 1:14:59.600 I say to all those people and all those corporations 1:14:59.760 --> 1:15:03.479 is sorry, not sorry. My job is not to win 1:15:03.520 --> 1:15:07.080 a popularity contest. My job is to call a stade 1:15:07.160 --> 1:15:07.759 a spade. 1:15:07.840 --> 1:15:09.360 What did you want to write? I mean, we know 1:15:09.400 --> 1:15:11.160 where you wanted to write about Mike. We talk about 1:15:11.240 --> 1:15:12.720 him when he has a call, But what was it 1:15:12.760 --> 1:15:14.040 that you wanted to get into street? 1:15:14.280 --> 1:15:16.680 I mean, arguably, he's one of the most interesting personalities 1:15:16.720 --> 1:15:20.880 on Wall Street. And here's someone who's been doing bank analysis, right, 1:15:20.960 --> 1:15:23.519 he's been a bank analyst for more than thirty years, 1:15:23.520 --> 1:15:26.639 in his fourth decade now. But more importantly, here's someone 1:15:26.680 --> 1:15:29.519 whose tales go back all the way from the shame 1:15:29.600 --> 1:15:32.559 of private jet travel with John McCoy, the original dean 1:15:32.600 --> 1:15:35.680 of Wall Street CEOs, to jousting with Jamie Diamond in 1:15:35.760 --> 1:15:38.479 twenty twenty one, twenty twenty to twenty twenty three. He's 1:15:38.479 --> 1:15:41.799 still there, He's still very relevant, and it doesn't matter 1:15:41.840 --> 1:15:44.519 what these bank CEOs have to say about him. Privately, 1:15:44.600 --> 1:15:48.080 they do grumble. They say he has a pension for grandstanding. 1:15:48.400 --> 1:15:51.200 They feel he's a bit of a showboat. They feel 1:15:51.200 --> 1:15:53.840 he's doing things to just needle that three. 1:15:54.280 --> 1:15:56.960 M's here right now. I want you to know, Mike, 1:15:57.200 --> 1:15:57.760 I'm room. 1:15:57.880 --> 1:15:59.360 I would tell you I know Mike and I have 1:15:59.439 --> 1:16:02.479 had several conversations about this. Mike would completely agree that 1:16:02.640 --> 1:16:05.200 is how they perceive him. Is yet the fact that 1:16:05.280 --> 1:16:08.439 he's called back for all of these operating committee meetings 1:16:08.439 --> 1:16:10.680 at these banks, for the management committee meetings to talk 1:16:10.720 --> 1:16:13.200 to their senior leaders to try and explain to them 1:16:13.240 --> 1:16:15.479 what they can do better to improve their stuff set 1:16:15.800 --> 1:16:17.880 that tells you all about his staying power, Mike. 1:16:18.000 --> 1:16:21.519 Is that perception that she described some analysts or some 1:16:21.560 --> 1:16:23.160 executives think of you? Is that wrong? 1:16:23.720 --> 1:16:27.040 This idea? I'm glad we have point counterpoint here in 1:16:27.120 --> 1:16:31.400 terms of you're welcome anyone, you know, in terms of 1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:33.760 grand stay in ing, show, voting, and some of those 1:16:33.800 --> 1:16:38.439 other adjectives that corporations use. That's what I've heard now 1:16:38.479 --> 1:16:40.400 in my fourth decade as a Wall Street analyst. That's 1:16:40.400 --> 1:16:43.200 what I've heard from corporations when they're trying to control 1:16:43.240 --> 1:16:47.040 the narrative, when they're very closed minded. So they don't 1:16:47.439 --> 1:16:49.280 necessarily say that to my face. So I will say, 1:16:49.280 --> 1:16:52.280 I've been fired kind of three and a half times 1:16:52.400 --> 1:16:56.920 in my thirty plus years, and I have asked CEOs 1:16:57.000 --> 1:16:59.960 and CFOs directly, like what I was fired from credits 1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:02.800 please in two thousand, what they were saying about me, 1:17:03.000 --> 1:17:06.280 And they would just say, I just don't think. I 1:17:06.280 --> 1:17:08.840 think you're too independent for the new firm, And that's 1:17:08.880 --> 1:17:11.080 exactly what they said when I got fired then. But 1:17:11.240 --> 1:17:14.160 I would just say everyone's not It's not one size 1:17:14.160 --> 1:17:17.160 fits all. So some banks get it. And so the 1:17:17.200 --> 1:17:19.479 one line I liked in the article I didn't like 1:17:19.520 --> 1:17:22.320 at all as the critical and that's, you know, that's 1:17:22.360 --> 1:17:25.280 the way journalism goes. I get it. But the one 1:17:25.280 --> 1:17:29.000 line I like came from Jamie Diamond, and Jamie Diamond said, 1:17:29.439 --> 1:17:33.120 differing opinions are okay. And guess what when you have 1:17:33.160 --> 1:17:37.040 differing opinions, that's called candor, that's called culture, and in 1:17:37.040 --> 1:17:39.439 the case of Jason Morgan, that's called success. On the 1:17:39.479 --> 1:17:42.679 other hand, you have a worst in class bank. Going 1:17:42.720 --> 1:17:46.000 back is City Group the last twenty five years. Most 1:17:46.040 --> 1:17:49.560 of that time, especially the first fifteen years, it was 1:17:49.600 --> 1:17:53.360 a very closed minded culture, a group think culture, you know, 1:17:53.439 --> 1:17:56.720 don't challenge the leaders enough. And you see what has 1:17:56.760 --> 1:17:58.720 happened to City Group Now. I think City Group has 1:17:58.760 --> 1:18:01.519 turned the corner. So if that's what you're saying behind 1:18:01.560 --> 1:18:04.320 the scenes, they're not always saying it to me directly, 1:18:05.000 --> 1:18:07.960 but over my thirty plus years, I have heard it 1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:11.840 indirectly or through consequences such as, like I said, being 1:18:11.880 --> 1:18:13.360 fired three and a half times. 1:18:13.160 --> 1:18:15.680 One little thing. In a world where it's hard to 1:18:15.760 --> 1:18:18.400 express different opinions, it's really kind of refreshing to hear 1:18:18.439 --> 1:18:20.280 you say that. But should come on in because I know, 1:18:20.520 --> 1:18:21.879 I'm sure you've got a million questions. 1:18:22.439 --> 1:18:25.439 No, but just to Mike's point, I will I'd like 1:18:25.479 --> 1:18:28.479 to remind everyone. And this is now going back, you know, 1:18:28.560 --> 1:18:31.920 more than two decades. But right when Jamie Diamond was 1:18:32.040 --> 1:18:35.840 coming on to become Sea of Bank one, I believe 1:18:35.880 --> 1:18:38.200 Mike had put out a report saying even hercules can't 1:18:38.200 --> 1:18:41.880 fix it. And at that time that bank felt Mike 1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:45.439 was rude and not sensitive to their needs, and they 1:18:45.600 --> 1:18:48.519 tried to ban access and not have him on various calls. 1:18:48.880 --> 1:18:51.439 Jamie Diamond came in and said, that doesn't make sense. 1:18:51.520 --> 1:18:53.040 We need to have him on his calls. You can't 1:18:53.080 --> 1:18:55.960 just revoke access. And oh, by the way, everything he's 1:18:56.000 --> 1:18:59.000 saying is probably right. Later on, when the JP Morgan 1:18:59.040 --> 1:19:04.639 Bank won merger happened, it was an investigate in person. 1:19:04.720 --> 1:19:07.120 Jimmie Damon actually looked at Mike May and said, Mike, 1:19:07.160 --> 1:19:09.600 where are you stand up admit you were wrong. That 1:19:09.720 --> 1:19:11.479 is the kind of banter that the two of them 1:19:11.680 --> 1:19:14.200 have had. People have called them frenemies over the years. 1:19:14.840 --> 1:19:18.400 It's not like Mike is always complimentary about Jimmie Diamond. 1:19:18.600 --> 1:19:21.000 It's not like he's always hostile to him. But he 1:19:21.120 --> 1:19:24.280 calls it as he sees it, and that's perhaps one 1:19:24.320 --> 1:19:27.080 of the reasons why he's been relevant for so long. 1:19:27.400 --> 1:19:29.040 Hey, Mike, I wanted to talk a little bit about 1:19:29.520 --> 1:19:33.719 health and about exercise, and because part of the story 1:19:34.040 --> 1:19:36.920 talks about the powerlifting that you've gotten into just in 1:19:36.920 --> 1:19:39.160 the last few years. I did not know about this now, 1:19:39.400 --> 1:19:43.040 so Shre and bree right that you got to this 1:19:44.840 --> 1:19:47.600 after twenty twenty one, after learning that you had osteoporosis 1:19:47.600 --> 1:19:50.000 and realizing that he'd broken fifteen bones over the course 1:19:50.040 --> 1:19:53.160 of five years. Can you just talk a little bit about, 1:19:53.280 --> 1:19:57.120 you know, your routine and sort of how powerlifting has 1:19:57.840 --> 1:20:00.679 improved your life and sort of the balance between athletics 1:20:00.680 --> 1:20:01.639 and banking and thrill. 1:20:02.000 --> 1:20:03.400 I want to get into that, but I just want 1:20:03.439 --> 1:20:06.760 to mention a headline the SEC granting approval for bitcoin ETFs. 1:20:07.040 --> 1:20:08.640 So Mike, feel free where you want to go. You 1:20:08.640 --> 1:20:10.680 can talk about your workouts, but you can also talk 1:20:10.720 --> 1:20:15.559 about kind of the changing landscape of the financial investment landscape, 1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:17.200 because I'm wondering if you have any kind of comment 1:20:17.240 --> 1:20:17.559 on that. 1:20:18.240 --> 1:20:20.800 Well, I would say that the job of a Wall 1:20:20.800 --> 1:20:27.040 Street analyst can be very intense, stressful, dynamic, sometimes with 1:20:27.160 --> 1:20:30.680 long hours when you least expect it. And so you know, 1:20:31.000 --> 1:20:34.840 I now work at a Wall Street division of a 1:20:34.840 --> 1:20:38.439 main street bank at Wells Fargo, and you know, they 1:20:38.520 --> 1:20:41.680 encourage a work life balance and I need it, and 1:20:41.720 --> 1:20:45.160 so this is my outlet for that. And I was 1:20:45.240 --> 1:20:47.360 raised during the seventies when it was all about the 1:20:47.360 --> 1:20:50.880 book of running, and I ran marathons and I did cycling, 1:20:51.439 --> 1:20:55.120 and the last few years, as your body talks to you, 1:20:55.120 --> 1:20:59.200 you adjust and my bones are a week and I 1:20:59.280 --> 1:21:02.160 needed to strengthen my bones and do a pivot. So 1:21:02.240 --> 1:21:06.799 my pivot was to get into strength training and specifically powerlifting. 1:21:07.479 --> 1:21:11.839 And you know, I guess I'm that very typical personal 1:21:11.880 --> 1:21:13.720 Wall Street like, when you go into something, you go 1:21:13.760 --> 1:21:16.320 all the way. And so I wasn't enough for me 1:21:16.560 --> 1:21:18.360 just to do this. I had to go ahead and compete. 1:21:18.360 --> 1:21:21.160 So I competed in my first meet a little over 1:21:21.200 --> 1:21:24.000 two years ago, and I got disqualified. I failed, I 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:27.000 missed my first three attempts, but then I went back 1:21:27.160 --> 1:21:32.639 and I went to Nationals last year where I played 1:21:32.840 --> 1:21:36.360 second and broke broke into a thousand pound clubs. That's 1:21:36.360 --> 1:21:39.639 a lot bench in deadlift. But you know, the average 1:21:39.640 --> 1:21:43.040 person loses half their muscle mass between the ages of 1:21:43.080 --> 1:21:46.320 forty and eighty, and so you know, as you know 1:21:46.400 --> 1:21:49.880 you age in, it starts to get you to fight back. 1:21:49.960 --> 1:21:53.960 And I'm hitting pr personal best records even as I 1:21:53.960 --> 1:21:57.280 get older. And so I think this story about strength 1:21:57.320 --> 1:22:00.880 training has been underrepresented in our society. I feel like 1:22:00.880 --> 1:22:03.479 can be bandalists for spring training and power listing and 1:22:03.520 --> 1:22:06.799 all that comes along with it, but they're the genesis 1:22:06.840 --> 1:22:08.760 of that is the need to have a work life 1:22:08.760 --> 1:22:11.759 balance when you work totally hard hours on Wall Street. 1:22:12.040 --> 1:22:14.280 And I will quickly add that I think Mike's biggest 1:22:14.280 --> 1:22:17.200 disappointment in the story was we mentioned his performance at 1:22:17.240 --> 1:22:20.519 the Memphis Feat Memphis Meet and not his personal best 1:22:20.520 --> 1:22:22.720 that game a few months earlier, when he did break 1:22:22.760 --> 1:22:23.960 into the thousand pound club. 1:22:24.120 --> 1:22:27.280 Well, a fun read, and Mike, I'm so glad that 1:22:27.320 --> 1:22:29.320 you could join us as well. Of course, Mike Mayo 1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:33.120 joining us Wells Fargo banking analysts with our own Shrinat Raja. 1:22:33.240 --> 1:22:34.400 Here at Bloomberg News. 1:22:34.880 --> 1:22:38.439 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 1:22:38.479 --> 1:22:41.920 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen. 1:22:41.720 --> 1:22:44.599 On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and. 1:22:44.560 --> 1:22:48.439 The Bloomberg Business App, or watch us live on YouTube. 1:22:49.520 --> 1:22:52.800 Indian Creek Village where the billionaires are pricing out the millionaires, 1:22:52.800 --> 1:22:55.080 which in itself is leading to a host of issues. 1:22:55.080 --> 1:22:58.400 So let's get to it. Jordan Fitzgerald and Felippe Marquez, 1:22:58.600 --> 1:23:01.439 who wrote about the story about Indian Creek Village and 1:23:01.439 --> 1:23:03.240 one of the most read stories on the Bloomberg term. 1:23:03.240 --> 1:23:05.640 I'll say Jordan joining us. She's Wealth Team reporter for 1:23:05.640 --> 1:23:09.080 Bloomberg News. She is here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. 1:23:09.360 --> 1:23:11.040 First of all, how did this get on your radar? 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:12.160 Well? 1:23:12.479 --> 1:23:15.960 After Bezos bought his two houses, which Bloomberg was fortunate 1:23:16.080 --> 1:23:20.880 enough to break. Basically, tons of news outlets were saying, 1:23:20.920 --> 1:23:23.400 look at this crazy island where all of these billionaires live, 1:23:23.880 --> 1:23:26.720 and Filipe and I were looking out and at it 1:23:26.720 --> 1:23:29.120 and saying, okay, yes, this is a crazy place where 1:23:29.160 --> 1:23:31.000 lots of billionaires live. There's lots of pockets of that 1:23:31.080 --> 1:23:33.840 in Miami. So how can we use this place to 1:23:33.920 --> 1:23:36.880 tell a story about Miami and about South Florida right now? 1:23:36.960 --> 1:23:38.840 So you raised your hand and you said, I'll do it. 1:23:39.000 --> 1:23:43.080 I will go to Florida. I'll go to Indiana where 1:23:43.200 --> 1:23:44.439 me and you went. 1:23:44.680 --> 1:23:45.160 I did go. 1:23:45.280 --> 1:23:46.519 Did you get across the gate? 1:23:46.760 --> 1:23:50.719 I did. I got across the mod You I can't reveal. 1:23:51.160 --> 1:23:54.400 I might get someone in trouble. I swear to God, 1:23:54.080 --> 1:23:55.400 I made a promise. 1:23:55.520 --> 1:23:56.640 I cannot. 1:23:57.920 --> 1:23:58.400 Confess. 1:23:58.600 --> 1:23:59.880 But you have to know something you have to get. 1:24:00.600 --> 1:24:01.639 You have to get. 1:24:01.520 --> 1:24:03.160 Someone who is allowed it. 1:24:03.160 --> 1:24:04.200 So they bring you across. 1:24:04.280 --> 1:24:06.840 Yes, describe what it looks like. I mean, this is 1:24:06.880 --> 1:24:07.479 like the most. 1:24:07.800 --> 1:24:09.080 When you cross the bridges that go. 1:24:10.880 --> 1:24:13.200 Basically you wouldn't even know it's there. 1:24:13.240 --> 1:24:17.200 You're just driving through surfside north of Miami Beach, beautiful community, 1:24:17.680 --> 1:24:20.759 and then you just come across this little roundabout where 1:24:20.800 --> 1:24:23.880 there's a guard tower and a little bridge, and you 1:24:24.000 --> 1:24:26.160 drive up. And the reason the roundabout is there so 1:24:26.200 --> 1:24:28.759 people can very easily exit if they get turned away. 1:24:29.920 --> 1:24:32.120 But they check the idea of the person heading in. 1:24:32.200 --> 1:24:34.439 They have to give a reason prove that they've been invited. 1:24:34.520 --> 1:24:36.600 And then into Valhalla. 1:24:36.880 --> 1:24:37.519 What was it like? 1:24:38.200 --> 1:24:38.919 It was beautiful? 1:24:39.120 --> 1:24:42.960 Like, yeah, I feel like that's really obvious. It's so coveted, 1:24:43.000 --> 1:24:45.879 it's so popular. It's in Miami. Of course it's gorgeous, 1:24:45.920 --> 1:24:48.760 but it was breathtaking. The island is just forty one 1:24:48.800 --> 1:24:52.320 lots surrounding a massive golf course, and so it is 1:24:52.360 --> 1:24:55.280 green and lush, and so many of the property owners 1:24:55.320 --> 1:24:58.559 have like fantastic sculptures right outside it just it kind 1:24:58.600 --> 1:25:00.120 of is amazing. 1:25:00.160 --> 1:25:02.280 As you moved along, could you pick out like, Okay, 1:25:02.280 --> 1:25:04.439 that's where Avanka and Jared are, Like, yeah, is the 1:25:04.479 --> 1:25:05.920 person who you were with or whomever? 1:25:06.160 --> 1:25:08.840 That a little bit, But I'd also I'd done enough 1:25:08.880 --> 1:25:11.960 research before, looking into property records on shell companies to 1:25:11.960 --> 1:25:13.439 figure out who owned what house. 1:25:13.600 --> 1:25:16.639 So we said the five wealthiest property owners alone control 1:25:16.720 --> 1:25:19.639 fortunes of some one hundred and ninety one billion, according 1:25:19.680 --> 1:25:22.080 to our Bloomberg Billionaires Index. Talked to us about the 1:25:22.120 --> 1:25:23.599 properties and what they've been going for. 1:25:24.080 --> 1:25:26.600 Yeah, So we talked to a realtor who's done a 1:25:26.600 --> 1:25:29.040 lot of sales on Indian Creek, and she said, before 1:25:29.040 --> 1:25:31.800 the pandemic. Twenty million dollars was a big sale. They'd 1:25:31.800 --> 1:25:34.599 have a bunch of sales a year. And now, I mean, 1:25:34.880 --> 1:25:37.040 like you said, Bezos just bought two properties for a 1:25:37.080 --> 1:25:40.719 total of one hundred and fifty million dollars billion dollars 1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:43.800 million dollars nearly sorry about that that compares with his 1:25:43.880 --> 1:25:48.080 net worth. But yeah, and one of his houses he'd 1:25:48.080 --> 1:25:51.200 bought from a Venezuelan family that had owned it since 1:25:51.240 --> 1:25:53.719 the eighties and they paid one point four million dollars. 1:25:53.960 --> 1:25:56.680 So there's a crazy return on investment here and transformation 1:25:56.840 --> 1:25:59.759 just in the past couple decades. I mean, Jamie Glenski, 1:26:00.040 --> 1:26:03.800 a Colombian baker, owns five properties on Indian Creek right now, 1:26:04.080 --> 1:26:06.280 and he paid a total of eighty million dollars for 1:26:06.400 --> 1:26:08.400 five properties, which is about what Bezos paid for a 1:26:08.400 --> 1:26:08.920 single one. 1:26:09.200 --> 1:26:11.400 Is that I mean, is it going to turn into 1:26:11.439 --> 1:26:12.800 like the Bezos compound. 1:26:13.680 --> 1:26:16.680 There's forty one lots. If Bezos gets all five that 1:26:16.720 --> 1:26:19.439 he wants, Glincy also has five, that means the two 1:26:19.479 --> 1:26:23.040 of them would have I mean, heen of forty. 1:26:22.760 --> 1:26:24.840 One lots, bit of like twenty five percent of. 1:26:24.800 --> 1:26:25.719 The loss exactly. 1:26:25.800 --> 1:26:27.840 It's kind of one when Jared and Evoca owned. 1:26:27.800 --> 1:26:30.960 Jared and Ivanka owned, they are there. She was spotted 1:26:32.360 --> 1:26:35.519 just strolling around. They recently built sidewalks in Indian Creek. 1:26:35.520 --> 1:26:37.679 That was one of their big development projects since COVID. 1:26:37.720 --> 1:26:38.679 I guess what. 1:26:38.560 --> 1:26:39.840 About this exclusive club? 1:26:40.400 --> 1:26:44.080 Yes, so there's the golf course is controlled by the 1:26:44.080 --> 1:26:46.680 Indian Creek Country Club. You do not have to be 1:26:46.720 --> 1:26:49.599 a resident of the island to belong to the country club. 1:26:49.600 --> 1:26:52.160 They have a finite amount of memberships and you have 1:26:52.200 --> 1:26:54.680 to be referred to one. But so it's kind of 1:26:54.680 --> 1:26:57.120 like the only homeowners who can really get onto the 1:26:57.120 --> 1:26:59.160 island are those who belong to the club or are 1:26:59.160 --> 1:27:00.439 going with members of the club. 1:27:00.560 --> 1:27:02.240 I love carl Icon. He's got to feel pretty good 1:27:02.240 --> 1:27:03.640 about what he paid for his properties. 1:27:03.800 --> 1:27:07.320 Carla Icon constantly, I think feels good about his investments. 1:27:07.680 --> 1:27:09.000 It's really really true. 1:27:09.600 --> 1:27:14.000 It's really fascinating, and I guess I just wonder like 1:27:14.040 --> 1:27:16.519 when we you know, I feel like everybody's moving to Florida, 1:27:16.640 --> 1:27:18.320 but I feel like a lot of really really really 1:27:18.400 --> 1:27:23.640 rich people are moving to Florida. You know, there's no 1:27:23.720 --> 1:27:26.200 properties left though, right, It's a limited amount of properties. 1:27:26.360 --> 1:27:28.599 Yeah, I mean, for example, with Indian Creek. 1:27:28.680 --> 1:27:29.200 It's an island. 1:27:29.200 --> 1:27:31.559 There really is a finite amount you can't build out, 1:27:32.680 --> 1:27:34.240 and so that's why we thought it was a really 1:27:34.320 --> 1:27:36.439 good place to look at how Florida has been changing. 1:27:36.479 --> 1:27:39.400 It really is attracting all of these very, very wealthy people, 1:27:39.439 --> 1:27:42.320 and they are kind of displacing the people who've made 1:27:42.320 --> 1:27:43.280 that their home for years. 1:27:43.400 --> 1:27:45.040 We'll talk about that a little bit because it is 1:27:45.080 --> 1:27:47.080 sort of a microcosm of what's happening on a larger 1:27:47.120 --> 1:27:50.400 scale in Florida. So even though we're talking about billionaires, 1:27:50.520 --> 1:27:52.040 I mean, we're talking about the wealthiest people in the 1:27:52.040 --> 1:27:55.200 world here. How does what's happening there sort of paint 1:27:55.240 --> 1:27:56.960 a picture of the bigger picture of Florida. 1:27:57.040 --> 1:28:00.320 Yeah, So if you have, for example, Ken Griffith, who 1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:03.760 notoriously moved to Miami in recent years, when you have 1:28:03.880 --> 1:28:05.559 Ken Griffin move there, and when you have Ken Griffin 1:28:05.600 --> 1:28:08.040 bring Citadel there, you're having him bring all of these 1:28:08.040 --> 1:28:12.679 Citadel employees who are very very highly paid executives who 1:28:12.680 --> 1:28:15.440 want to come in and want to buy up properties 1:28:15.439 --> 1:28:18.600 and build big houses and drive up property values. And 1:28:18.640 --> 1:28:21.760 when they do that, the people who don't make as 1:28:21.840 --> 1:28:23.960 much as a Citadel executive, which is really the majority 1:28:24.000 --> 1:28:26.280 of the world. They can't afford to live in the 1:28:26.280 --> 1:28:28.599 places they may have called home for years upon years. 1:28:28.640 --> 1:28:30.720 Ken Griffin not Indian. 1:28:30.640 --> 1:28:32.839 Not an Indian Creek. Ken Griffin lives on a different, 1:28:33.560 --> 1:28:36.599 very wealthy island in Miami. But the difference between other 1:28:36.800 --> 1:28:40.080 enclaves in Miami and Indian Creek is that Indian Creek 1:28:40.160 --> 1:28:43.240 is its own town. It is not technically an island 1:28:43.240 --> 1:28:46.040 in Miami. It is Indian Creek, Florida. And because of 1:28:46.080 --> 1:28:48.160 that they are really able to have their guard tower 1:28:48.200 --> 1:28:50.000 and have their moat and keep people out. 1:28:50.240 --> 1:28:52.080 It's a great story. And there's more in there about 1:28:52.120 --> 1:28:54.120 Jeff Bezos when he was looking for his properties, right, 1:28:54.160 --> 1:28:57.599 like kind of knocking on the doors of people. Yes, yeah, 1:28:57.600 --> 1:28:59.360 he probably wasn't knocking on the doors. 1:28:59.520 --> 1:28:59.640 No. 1:29:00.160 --> 1:29:03.160 I think Jeff Bezos has other things he's interested in doing, 1:29:03.200 --> 1:29:06.160 but he went after properties he did, and if you've 1:29:06.160 --> 1:29:09.200 seen the pictures of him paddleboating, he clearly is dedicated 1:29:09.200 --> 1:29:11.200 to the environment down there. 1:29:11.320 --> 1:29:16.320 Yeah, there's that yacht too, yacht Jordan Fitzgerald. This is 1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:18.600 really fun, so appreciate it. As we said, among the 1:29:18.640 --> 1:29:21.479 most read stories on the Bloomberg Terminal. She by the way, 1:29:21.560 --> 1:29:23.960 Wealth Team reporter. Here at Bloomberg News, you're listening to 1:29:23.960 --> 1:29:25.040 Bloomberg BusinessWeek. 1:29:27.360 --> 1:29:32.000 This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast of a Little Apple, Spotify, 1:29:32.120 --> 1:29:35.839 and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live weekday 1:29:35.880 --> 1:29:39.479 afternoons from three to six eastering on Bloomberg dot com, 1:29:39.560 --> 1:29:42.880 the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 1:29:42.920 --> 1:29:46.000 You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 1:29:46.080 --> 1:29:50.200 and always on the Bloomberg Terminale