WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Rudolph Hess

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:05.359
<v Speaker 1>Thinking Sideways is not supported by a fleet of puppy supremacists. Instead,

0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.400
<v Speaker 1>it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon.

0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more

0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:27.120
<v Speaker 1>and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories

0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:32.160
<v Speaker 1>of things we simply don't know the answer to. Hi there,

0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.120
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm your host Joe,

0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:41.120
<v Speaker 1>joined by my co host Den and Steve, and this

0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.440
<v Speaker 1>week we're going to talk about a really really interesting

0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.199
<v Speaker 1>World War two mystery. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot of

0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:47.919
<v Speaker 1>a lot of cool stuff happened around World War Two.

0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Time kicking it old school. Yeah. So our story begins

0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.400
<v Speaker 1>in the year nine. Germany had overrun much of Europe

0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.280
<v Speaker 1>and was at war with Great Britain. As we all know,

0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.800
<v Speaker 1>or you should know anyway, really do. Pass was the

0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Deputy fear of the National Socialist Democratic Workers Party AK

0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.360
<v Speaker 1>the Nazis at the time, and he was the third

0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.960
<v Speaker 1>most powerful man in Germany after Hitler and Goring. Though

0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.039
<v Speaker 1>he was a v I P. On May Tense, nineteen

0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.760
<v Speaker 1>forty one, has did something kind of strange. He climbed

0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.280
<v Speaker 1>into a measure from it BF one ten fighter bomber.

0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:20.160
<v Speaker 1>By the way, that I mentioned that Rudolph has knew

0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.160
<v Speaker 1>how to fly, Yeah, but we know, yeah, he knew

0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.920
<v Speaker 1>how to fly, and he flew to Scotland. His intention,

0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.240
<v Speaker 1>he said, was to negotiate a piece between Britain and Germany.

0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.040
<v Speaker 1>So what the hell was he thinking? Yeah, big question,

0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it was. Was he deranged? As Winston Churchill and

0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Adolf Hitler both said. And also the general consensus is

0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.800
<v Speaker 1>that Hitler was not aware before he left on his

0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:46.960
<v Speaker 1>flight that he was going to leave and go to England,

0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:48.960
<v Speaker 1>which is a little strange. Yeah, yeah, and that's a

0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.960
<v Speaker 1>general consensus. But really is that true? Did Hitler really

0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.520
<v Speaker 1>not know that his his third in command was going

0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:58.200
<v Speaker 1>on in a little trip. We're going out a little peace,

0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.120
<v Speaker 1>mister little? Yeah. Can I briefly ask, maybe you'll talk

0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.360
<v Speaker 1>about it later. Why Scotland? Uh? Well, there was a

0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:09.280
<v Speaker 1>guy living in Scotland, that's the Duke of Hamilton's, Yeah,

0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.880
<v Speaker 1>who he felt might be sympathetic to his cause. Okay,

0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.040
<v Speaker 1>so we'll talk about that in a minute, Yeah we will.

0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.799
<v Speaker 1>And also Rudolph ass left us with one last little mystery,

0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.720
<v Speaker 1>which is how did he die? The official story is

0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.960
<v Speaker 1>he committed suicide. But but other people think that he

0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.760
<v Speaker 1>was murdered. Yeah, I've read up on this and I

0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:28.799
<v Speaker 1>can see how they would think that. Oh yeah, a

0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.120
<v Speaker 1>lot a lot of people think he was murdered. That well,

0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.440
<v Speaker 1>let me tell you a little background on Rudolph. He

0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.160
<v Speaker 1>joined the Nazi Party in nineteen twenty after hearing Adolph

0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.240
<v Speaker 1>Hitler speak at an event in Munich. He was member

0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.800
<v Speaker 1>number sixties, so he really got in on the ground

0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.000
<v Speaker 1>floor of the whole thing. And that was at the

0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:48.960
<v Speaker 1>time when Hitler was considered more charismatic and less crazy talk. Yeah,

0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.160
<v Speaker 1>so he was much more of a fair motivational speaking

0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I imagine that's how we got a lot

0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.400
<v Speaker 1>of people in the beginning. Yeah. Well, and and this

0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.840
<v Speaker 1>is post World War two, and with one post World one, yeah, exactly,

0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.679
<v Speaker 1>my bad, post World War One, and a lot of Germans,

0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.200
<v Speaker 1>of course, you know, they were under the Versite Treaty.

0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.520
<v Speaker 1>The Gernamans were quite harsh and a lot of Germans

0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.640
<v Speaker 1>were very very angry about the outcome of the war.

0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.640
<v Speaker 1>And and so Hitler tapped into that pretty nicely. No,

0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.800
<v Speaker 1>he definitely did. It. Turns out it's not so hard

0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:23.239
<v Speaker 1>for crazy people to rally around the guys of fixing everything. Yeah,

0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:27.000
<v Speaker 1>I know, yeah, Hitler fixed things real good. Well, like

0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:32.639
<v Speaker 1>I said the guy. Yeah, uh, you guys thought, I'm

0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:36.080
<v Speaker 1>sure heard of the famous beer hall push in thee

0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.520
<v Speaker 1>when Hitler and Hess and a bunch of other Nazis

0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.520
<v Speaker 1>went into a German beer hall where they were holding

0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.000
<v Speaker 1>a Bugian town meeting basically tried to start a revolution.

0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.560
<v Speaker 1>I have read about this briefly, and it never made

0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.520
<v Speaker 1>sense to me, like it never seemed how I never

0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.840
<v Speaker 1>understood why they thought it was a good idea. I

0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.680
<v Speaker 1>mean either, I never never did either. But it turns out, yeah,

0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:56.400
<v Speaker 1>it didn't work out so well for him. They wanted up.

0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Hitler and Hess both went to jail for a while,

0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.560
<v Speaker 1>and at that time when that Hitler wrote his magnum

0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:06.600
<v Speaker 1>opus Mind comp in jail and has helped him edit it,

0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:08.920
<v Speaker 1>so he was part of that too. And at this

0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.080
<v Speaker 1>this is really when they started becoming really good friends

0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.280
<v Speaker 1>and very close, very close relationship between these two. And

0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.080
<v Speaker 1>they always had a very close relationship, I mean through

0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.680
<v Speaker 1>the years, not just at this point forward, is what

0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:22.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm getting. Yeah, I think that their time together in

0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.640
<v Speaker 1>jail really kind of cemented the relationship, though, Has, as

0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.279
<v Speaker 1>you all know, rose to power along with Hitler. And

0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Has this is a guy who introduced the concept of

0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Leban's round. Hitler he'd got an idea from one of

0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.479
<v Speaker 1>his university professors at the University of Munich uh, and

0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Leban's round in German means quote, let's go conquer most

0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.880
<v Speaker 1>of eastern Europe so we can live correct translation rate

0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:50.880
<v Speaker 1>exactly what actually does it means living room and not

0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.480
<v Speaker 1>not the living room in your house? Yeah? Yeah, they

0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.480
<v Speaker 1>felt that I like the regional translation. Yeah yeah, well

0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.960
<v Speaker 1>I as we all know, Hitler really took to the idea.

0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:06.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah he did. Uh. In June nineteen four, Hitler was

0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.839
<v Speaker 1>heard to say that what he wanted most was peace

0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.000
<v Speaker 1>with Britain. And they've been at war with Britain for

0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.800
<v Speaker 1>about a year and a half at this point, about correct, Yeah,

0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:18.400
<v Speaker 1>on that, okay, And he said that he felt it

0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:20.080
<v Speaker 1>really was no need for the two countries to be

0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:21.960
<v Speaker 1>at war. And besides, I'm sure he had better use

0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.080
<v Speaker 1>for all those military assets that he was throwing at

0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:29.359
<v Speaker 1>the Brits because um. In June one, of course, Operation

0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.600
<v Speaker 1>Barbar also got underway. That was the invasion of the

0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.839
<v Speaker 1>Soviet Union. But prior to that, they've been sending plane

0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.120
<v Speaker 1>after plane after plane just bombing the holy crap out

0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.800
<v Speaker 1>of Britain. Yeah, which is a lot of that's a

0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.160
<v Speaker 1>lot of material, Yeah, which we could be more usefully

0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.800
<v Speaker 1>spent on bombing Russians instead of Brits. You know. In

0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.680
<v Speaker 1>June nineteen when Hitler said that they wanted peace, it

0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.359
<v Speaker 1>looks like has started planning his piece initiative about that time.

0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Rudolph Hess first learned to fly in the German military

0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.440
<v Speaker 1>near the end of World War one, uh and after

0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.560
<v Speaker 1>the war in nine he got a price the pilot's

0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.160
<v Speaker 1>license on several different planes, not all the same time.

0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I don't think he was out wealthy,

0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.440
<v Speaker 1>but he got pretty good at flying single engine planes.

0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.640
<v Speaker 1>In October nineteen forty, who want to the Messer Schmidt

0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Aircraft works in Augsburg, Bavaria, I hope, I pronounced Agsburg right,

0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:16.719
<v Speaker 1>and he told them that he wanted to start training

0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:18.600
<v Speaker 1>on the Messer Schmidt BF one ten, which is a

0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.760
<v Speaker 1>twin engineer plane with a lot better rains and your

0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.840
<v Speaker 1>typical single engine. And he received instruction on how to

0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.760
<v Speaker 1>fly from a Measter Schmith test pilot, and the company

0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.440
<v Speaker 1>held a plane for his own personal use, which was

0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:33.800
<v Speaker 1>nice of them. Well, I mean, yeah, but one of

0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.720
<v Speaker 1>Hitler's best friends. You're not going to be like guy

0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.080
<v Speaker 1>number three. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. They probably didn't make him

0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:42.960
<v Speaker 1>pay for it either. No, I'm sure they didn't. They

0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.000
<v Speaker 1>probably didn't even make him pay for the gas or

0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.800
<v Speaker 1>all the upgrades. Yeah, they they did upgraded a bit.

0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.760
<v Speaker 1>They installed a radio compass, long range drop tanks, which

0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.760
<v Speaker 1>are fuel tanks, reportedly modified the oxygen delivery system, though

0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:57.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure exactly what was done there. That's all

0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.000
<v Speaker 1>I heard. I would imagine that they were extending the

0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.000
<v Speaker 1>range of the plane regarding fuel, they might want to

0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.240
<v Speaker 1>add some oxygen to They would probably have upgraded the

0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.800
<v Speaker 1>oxygen system to match it. Probably, Yeah, I would guess

0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.000
<v Speaker 1>that as well. It seems like oxygen would be an

0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:16.320
<v Speaker 1>important component to right directly following fuel. Yes, I don't know.

0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.680
<v Speaker 1>Oxygen might be even more important than fuel on a

0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.440
<v Speaker 1>fuel that if you can't breathe them blackout, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Alternately,

0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:25.400
<v Speaker 1>if you run out of fuel, you might be able

0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.840
<v Speaker 1>to pilot the plane to a safer landing even if

0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:30.560
<v Speaker 1>the fuel runs out as long as the oxygen. So

0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.440
<v Speaker 1>we're both right. Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm going to call

0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:35.640
<v Speaker 1>us a win win. So what are we at here?

0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Made tense that theay of reckoning at PM has climbed

0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.200
<v Speaker 1>into his Meastrishman took off in the airport at Augsburg

0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.960
<v Speaker 1>and flew northwest, eventually turned north, hit the coast of

0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.480
<v Speaker 1>the North Sea, right around bremer Haven, Germany, turned east

0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.440
<v Speaker 1>trip to stay out of the rage of British radar,

0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.160
<v Speaker 1>and then turned north northwest nine PM, re turned west

0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.880
<v Speaker 1>southwest and headed towards the northern part of England. So

0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:00.960
<v Speaker 1>hang on here, Joe, just so people get an idea.

0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.880
<v Speaker 1>He took off, he headed and he basically did a

0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of a zigzag north is what he was doing

0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.520
<v Speaker 1>until he got to Scotland, and then he was hanging

0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.720
<v Speaker 1>basically a Greek turn, correct, not a one eight really

0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.000
<v Speaker 1>was that was exactly. But he went west northwest and

0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.520
<v Speaker 1>then basically made a ninety degree turn and headed not

0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.360
<v Speaker 1>excuse me, he had a north northwest and then made

0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:29.520
<v Speaker 1>a ninety degree turn and headed west southwest. Yeah, so

0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I think part of it is he was killing a

0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.240
<v Speaker 1>little bit of time because he wanted it to be

0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.720
<v Speaker 1>dark when he when he actually hit England, and so

0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.200
<v Speaker 1>it was dark. He actually did sort of kill some

0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.280
<v Speaker 1>time out at sea too, waiting for it to get dark,

0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.240
<v Speaker 1>and then flew over the northern part of England um

0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.760
<v Speaker 1>at about fifty ft of altitude. So he was picked

0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:49.959
<v Speaker 1>up on the radar and some r a F fighters

0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.880
<v Speaker 1>were scrambled to intercept him, but they couldn't find him. Well,

0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:56.600
<v Speaker 1>the thing that I didn't understand for a long time

0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.880
<v Speaker 1>when I was doing the reading is if he why

0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.160
<v Speaker 1>was he killing so much in time? Why didn't he

0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:02.960
<v Speaker 1>just leave later in the day. That would have been

0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.240
<v Speaker 1>a good idea. Well, it turns out he was following

0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:09.080
<v Speaker 1>a U is it the blitz Crieg. Yeah, he was

0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:13.320
<v Speaker 1>following a group of planes and tagging along on their

0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.600
<v Speaker 1>navigation to get himself to Britain. So he was following

0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.680
<v Speaker 1>a suite of bombers that were heading for London that day.

0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.079
<v Speaker 1>That's the reason he left when he did, instead of saying, what,

0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:25.760
<v Speaker 1>I'll leave like an hour and a half later and

0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.360
<v Speaker 1>then I don't have to dink around in the middle

0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.360
<v Speaker 1>of the ocean flying in circles. I mean, that was

0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.200
<v Speaker 1>probably a good idea, just for radars as well. Yeah,

0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.560
<v Speaker 1>although you don't want to be tagging tag along with

0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.240
<v Speaker 1>those guys when they actually reached Britain, because it's going

0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.280
<v Speaker 1>to be after you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot

0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.280
<v Speaker 1>of flak in the air at that point, that too. Yeah,

0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.079
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, you understand why he didn't like to fly

0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:52.319
<v Speaker 1>just directly to London and then north. He didn't leave them. Yeah,

0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.640
<v Speaker 1>a little letter. Ten pm he was picked up on radar,

0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.120
<v Speaker 1>asist said, and he flew north into Scotland. He was

0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.000
<v Speaker 1>mostly navigating by landmarks. It should be kind of tricky

0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.240
<v Speaker 1>in the dark. Yeah. He was having trouble finding his destination,

0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.440
<v Speaker 1>which was a place called Dune Gable House and I

0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:09.520
<v Speaker 1>could be pronouncing that incorrectly. I looked it up on

0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.400
<v Speaker 1>the internet and I got three different pronouncing nation pronunciations

0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.320
<v Speaker 1>of it. Yeah, yeah, so well. And the reason he

0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:18.880
<v Speaker 1>was having such hard time in the dark though, was

0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.520
<v Speaker 1>because it's wartime. Everybody was keeping their lights off at

0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.480
<v Speaker 1>now or shuttering their windows, so there was nothing to

0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.920
<v Speaker 1>navigate by. I know, so well, there's landmarks still, but

0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean fight on the ground and say oh this

0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.600
<v Speaker 1>should be should be this town? Yeah, I know that

0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.480
<v Speaker 1>that would be it was a tricky thing. And uh,

0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.400
<v Speaker 1>but anyway, the dun Gable House is the home of

0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.040
<v Speaker 1>the Duke of Hamilton's. It's not that anymore now. It's

0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.040
<v Speaker 1>like an immigrant detention center somehow, so somehow that the

0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Duke of Hamilton's lives somewhere else now. The Duke was

0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.600
<v Speaker 1>a friend who has his friend Albert hoss Hoofer, who

0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.559
<v Speaker 1>had a lot of English contacts. In fact, there were

0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.880
<v Speaker 1>lots of There was lots of contacts between the British

0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.160
<v Speaker 1>aristocracy and a lot of the German aristocracy because they

0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.480
<v Speaker 1>all knew each other, there aristocracy, and they're all like that,

0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.120
<v Speaker 1>they're all that kind of family. Has thought that Hamiltonson

0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.480
<v Speaker 1>was would be sympathetic to his peace mission. And again

0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.400
<v Speaker 1>there's there's a little bit of back and forth about

0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.080
<v Speaker 1>exactly why he believed that. I'll talk about that in

0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.840
<v Speaker 1>more detail later. Some people think that perhaps m I

0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.240
<v Speaker 1>six tricked to him into thinking that there was a

0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.280
<v Speaker 1>whole bunch of people in Britain that would be really

0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.240
<v Speaker 1>receptive to his peace proposal. So that's one theory that's

0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.160
<v Speaker 1>out there well. And then there's also the what is

0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.599
<v Speaker 1>it the Anglo Germanic society was that what wash I

0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.640
<v Speaker 1>think it was the Anglo German Friendship Society something like that. Yeah,

0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.120
<v Speaker 1>that was. That was I think also one of the

0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:39.000
<v Speaker 1>big theories of why he thought he would be sympathetic. Yeah,

0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.920
<v Speaker 1>and also the Duke had access to King George's sixth

0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.120
<v Speaker 1>and that was that would be a big bonus. And

0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.280
<v Speaker 1>also best of all, done Gable House had an airstrip

0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.280
<v Speaker 1>because highly important for airplane Yeah and yeah, the Duke

0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.720
<v Speaker 1>of Hamilton, it turns out, was also an airplane enthusiast

0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.280
<v Speaker 1>like Hess, so they had something in common there. I

0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.080
<v Speaker 1>should also note it was rumor that a number of

0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.000
<v Speaker 1>members of the royal family were pro German, or at

0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.160
<v Speaker 1>least not in favor of war with Germany, which really

0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.360
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be too outlandish. When do you think that, consider

0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.160
<v Speaker 1>that they're actually part German themselves. You know. The House

0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.000
<v Speaker 1>of Windsor Windsor actually did not begin until when they

0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.080
<v Speaker 1>changed their name from what was it the House of Saxe,

0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:24.679
<v Speaker 1>Coburn and Gotha, which doesn't exactly sound British. And yeah, yeah,

0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.080
<v Speaker 1>so that the name change was due to anti German

0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.920
<v Speaker 1>sentiment World War One, Oh yeah, I'm sure. And so

0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.720
<v Speaker 1>down now that the Windsor's Uh. The way back to

0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.720
<v Speaker 1>Rudolph Hesse and his plane, he was having trouble finding

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.199
<v Speaker 1>the Duke's house, so he turned flew west to the

0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.559
<v Speaker 1>first of Clyde, where he oriented himself, and then he

0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.160
<v Speaker 1>flew back inland. But by the time he was back

0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 1>in the vicinity of doom Gable, he was low on

0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.240
<v Speaker 1>fuel and he had picked up a little company. Yeah

0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 1>I know, arif interceptor finally began pursuit of him. And

0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:56.440
<v Speaker 1>this is I forget the name of the plane. It's

0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:00.439
<v Speaker 1>an interesting looking plane. Instead of having a four guns

0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 1>and the wings like most fighters do you think of having,

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, this one didn't have those, but it had

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.320
<v Speaker 1>behind the pilot there was a turret with a couple

0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 1>of gun barrels sticking out of it. Really, yeah, I

0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't look just playing up. Yeah, it's a strange little

0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.280
<v Speaker 1>strange look a little plane. It would almost have been

0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.200
<v Speaker 1>if if I if you were to imagine it being

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.000
<v Speaker 1>a two seater. The second seat was actually the gun Yeah,

0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.439
<v Speaker 1>it was actually the gunner. Yeah, sitting there and raised

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.319
<v Speaker 1>tail is a raised turret over the over the pilot's seat.

0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.120
<v Speaker 1>So you know, I mean handy because you can shoot

0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.160
<v Speaker 1>to your side. I guess I just gotta be careful

0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:36.040
<v Speaker 1>not to shoot your wings off or anything. Yeah, it's

0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:40.120
<v Speaker 1>probably the first thing to cover in training day one.

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.839
<v Speaker 1>Don't shoot the wing. Yeah, that's right. You'll get a

0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.120
<v Speaker 1>black market. Your record that was that was a ten

0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 1>thirty at night. You said, yeah, I was ten thirty

0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 1>at night. Has decided it was time to bail. So

0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.680
<v Speaker 1>he climbed a six thousand feet and jumped out. Luckily,

0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.400
<v Speaker 1>he had a parachute on and he landed about ten

0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.840
<v Speaker 1>miles northwest of his destination, near the village of Eagles

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Amma or Eaglesham, which is actually pretty close when you

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.079
<v Speaker 1>could say, it was dark and he didn't have much

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.480
<v Speaker 1>in the way of navigational just like a compass, super

0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 1>lucky compass. Yeah, and that was so uh. He was

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 1>seen parachuting in by a local farmer named David McClean.

0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.480
<v Speaker 1>McClean found him on the ground wrestling with his parachute

0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 1>and he had a very badly wrenched ankle. McClean was

0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.120
<v Speaker 1>armed with a pitchfork and essentially took him took a prisoner.

0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.560
<v Speaker 1>And how did he see him coming down? I'm not

0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.280
<v Speaker 1>really sure. Maybe there was a moon that night, there

0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.800
<v Speaker 1>must have been if he was navigating at that time

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 1>of night by landmark, there must have been at least

0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 1>a half moon. There must have been good some good

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 1>moon light. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking I would expect. Also,

0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 1>if you heard a plane above, like you know, two

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 1>planes kind of in hot pursuit above you, you might

0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 1>look up and then you might see something kind of

0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 1>pop out of one and think huh. And I don't

0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 1>know if he was on the ground by the time

0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.360
<v Speaker 1>his plane crash. His plane crash very shortly after he bailed. Yeah, yeah,

0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 1>but there even in the distance, it must have been

0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a kind of a big kaboo. Yeah, that that plane.

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:01.720
<v Speaker 1>Have you seen the photos of his plane? It was

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:07.080
<v Speaker 1>pretty He did not survive that now not not so well. Uh,

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.520
<v Speaker 1>you fought a side about this farm where he um.

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.760
<v Speaker 1>He actually went to the where the plane wreckage side was.

0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.960
<v Speaker 1>After after the homeguard came and got hass took him

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>off his hands, he went over and he found a

0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 1>plane crash side and he had some parts in the bushes.

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.760
<v Speaker 1>And then after after they had hauled all the rest

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:22.800
<v Speaker 1>of the wreckage away, he went back and got those

0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 1>and so he had those you had those around for

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>a year or yeah, and I think he eventually trophies. Yeah. Yeah,

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 1>he gave one or one or two away and I

0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:31.800
<v Speaker 1>think some of the other one A couple of the

0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.720
<v Speaker 1>other ones he sold. Yeah, part of Rudolph has his plane,

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, very collectible. Yeah. So they hobbled back to

0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 1>his cottage, McLean's cottage, and they had a cup of

0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 1>tea and McClane contacted the Home Guard, who showed up

0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 1>shortly thereafter with some police. Has was operating under a

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 1>different name at this point. Yeah, he said his name

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 1>was Captain Alfred Horne. Then he needed to speak with

0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.920
<v Speaker 1>the Duke of Hamilton's And in another account I read,

0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 1>he said he told the Home Guard guys, tell the

0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 1>Duke of Hamilton's that I've arrived. He and but he

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 1>was German, right, so he would have had a relatively

0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 1>thick accent. Uh yeah, I mean he spoke English fluently.

0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 1>He was actually raised in the English section of Alexandria, Egypt,

0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.240
<v Speaker 1>so he did speak English. So do you but do

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.440
<v Speaker 1>you know about accent? I just like if you have

0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 1>a German accent accent in nine in England, people are

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be like, Okay, Mr Horn, I'll get right

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 1>on that. I absolutely positive he had a fairly distinct accent.

0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 1>He is speed, His English was good to speak. He

0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 1>evidently wasn't that good at interpreting English though, that was

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 1>a difficulty for him for quite a while, which is weird.

0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.400
<v Speaker 1>You know, whenever I've tried to tackle a foreign language,

0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.680
<v Speaker 1>I always find understanding it it's easier for me than speaking.

0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 1>It's it's interesting that some friends who are fluent in

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.520
<v Speaker 1>like a stupid amount of languages, and um, a couple

0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 1>of them have been fluent since birth in both languages,

0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 1>and for them it is hard to translate because they

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.840
<v Speaker 1>just think in both languages. So it's like a concept

0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.280
<v Speaker 1>and you whatever in which you're speaking in They just

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.160
<v Speaker 1>know the words that they're trying to think, but they

0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.080
<v Speaker 1>have to actually really think about what the word for

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.840
<v Speaker 1>that in the other languages. Yeah, they have to actually

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.439
<v Speaker 1>take a step back and say, Okay, but if I

0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 1>were having this conversation in this other language, that lamp

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:18.080
<v Speaker 1>would be called that other word, you know. So I

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.160
<v Speaker 1>I wonder if there was something like that going on. Yeah,

0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but anyway, that's so there were there

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.240
<v Speaker 1>were some communication difficulties through this whole thing back to

0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.200
<v Speaker 1>the Home Guard. They took them away to their little

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.399
<v Speaker 1>h Q, and according to one source that I found,

0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.560
<v Speaker 1>there was actually a reception committee of military intelligence officers

0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.920
<v Speaker 1>waiting at the air strip of Hamilton's estate. I only

0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.439
<v Speaker 1>heard that in one place, so I'm not sure if

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.280
<v Speaker 1>that's true or not. So apparently it has captured by

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:41.920
<v Speaker 1>the Home Guard was a little bit of a hitch

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.680
<v Speaker 1>in their plans. It might be if they had indeed

0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 1>lured him under false pretenses to Britain. Maybe they were

0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.520
<v Speaker 1>planning on just secretly spiriting him away and never telling

0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 1>the public anything. But because he got captured by the

0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:58.359
<v Speaker 1>Home Guard, Yeah, and maybe that they were actually planning

0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.120
<v Speaker 1>on trying to work something out, and that wouldn't necessarily

0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.560
<v Speaker 1>be in popular opinion, So you would kind of want

0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.440
<v Speaker 1>to take it slow. Well, I was, I was, actually

0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Joe said that. I was like, Well, maybe they're trying

0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 1>to work something out of him with fists and do

0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.280
<v Speaker 1>it completely under the radar and nobody would ever know

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.240
<v Speaker 1>where they go. There's I mean, there's a lot of

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.679
<v Speaker 1>reasons that you would not want to publicize that that

0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.720
<v Speaker 1>guy was in your country. Yeah, yeah, probably Hitler would

0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 1>have kept it quiet too. It was embarrassing for him. Yeah,

0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:28.800
<v Speaker 1>uh so, yeah, the whole thing could have been kept

0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.920
<v Speaker 1>a secret, except books. He didn't make his target, so yeah,

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.440
<v Speaker 1>he got captured anyway. Supposedly it was this reception committee

0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.080
<v Speaker 1>that caught up with Hess in Home Guard custody and

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.359
<v Speaker 1>they persuaded the Home Guard people to finally let him go,

0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.800
<v Speaker 1>and so they took him to mary Hill Barracks near Glasgow, Scotland,

0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:45.560
<v Speaker 1>and then the Duke of Hamilton did arrived the next

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 1>day to see has and that's when it has revealed

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.359
<v Speaker 1>his true identity and said I think the words were quote,

0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:57.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm here to save the world, something melodramatic like that. Yeah,

0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 1>but he wanted to he wanted to work out a

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 1>peace deal. This is one thing I love about Germans days.

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.120
<v Speaker 1>They're so direct. It's I'm not gonna work up to us.

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to save everybody. Let me do that now.

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm not not really going to save the world, just

0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Germany in England. Well, that's all the world that he

0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.200
<v Speaker 1>cares about pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. One of the concessions

0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:20.200
<v Speaker 1>that he apparently uh put forward was that Germany would

0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.560
<v Speaker 1>withdraw from Western Europe except for parts of France like Alsassin,

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.240
<v Speaker 1>Lorraine they were going to keep. Uh, they would allow

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Britain to keep its overseas possessions and in return they

0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.600
<v Speaker 1>wanted a free hand in Eastern Europe and Russia. They

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.520
<v Speaker 1>would also try to mediate a settlement between Britain and Italy. Um.

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.400
<v Speaker 1>And also they said that they would buy the full

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.840
<v Speaker 1>output of Allied war industries production while they were converting

0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>back to peacetime uses to help avoid any economic downturn.

0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.119
<v Speaker 1>So I have a lot of problems with this, but

0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna wait until we get into the very section

0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 1>because there's all kinds of holes in this for me. Yeah. Well,

0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 1>apparently Has had a full on, full blown peace proposal

0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.720
<v Speaker 1>which was eventually I think presented to Churchill. He met

0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.440
<v Speaker 1>with the Duke of Hamilton. Churchill did that is and

0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.760
<v Speaker 1>they met with the war cabinet, and apparently there was

0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.520
<v Speaker 1>no interest in a peace deal. Uh. They didn't tell

0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.360
<v Speaker 1>his Has this for a while. Well, I mean it's

0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.919
<v Speaker 1>not surprising to me that Britain didn't think there was

0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.120
<v Speaker 1>there was any reason for a peace deal, right, I mean,

0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 1>the whole reason that everybody was going to war was

0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.520
<v Speaker 1>like because the Nazis are bad and we don't like

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.919
<v Speaker 1>what they're doing. Right, It wasn't oh, they're coming to

0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>get us, so we have to defend ourselves. It was

0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.399
<v Speaker 1>more of a proactive approach. So it makes sense to

0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.360
<v Speaker 1>me that they wouldn't necessarily I mean that would if

0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:34.480
<v Speaker 1>they did have a peace deal, it would just basically

0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.679
<v Speaker 1>give tacit consent to what was going on in the

0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:40.720
<v Speaker 1>rest of the world the Nazis controlled exactly because I

0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:45.120
<v Speaker 1>mean that's why Britain declared wars, because they had had

0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.679
<v Speaker 1>a treaty with Poland, you know that one defense the

0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.560
<v Speaker 1>other well Poland was invaded. Well you know, they had

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.679
<v Speaker 1>to kind of they had to actually do something about it,

0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:56.440
<v Speaker 1>and so it's like that whole sense of honor. But

0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:58.480
<v Speaker 1>at this time the war was not really going that

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.000
<v Speaker 1>great for Britain, right, you know, speaking of Poland. When

0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:03.679
<v Speaker 1>I was doing the research, one of the things that

0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.520
<v Speaker 1>I always am really interested in, and this is just

0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.200
<v Speaker 1>a weird thing about me, is posters from different eras,

0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.679
<v Speaker 1>and one of the ones that was in Britain at

0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.600
<v Speaker 1>the time was the Polish flag. And you know, it's

0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:18.200
<v Speaker 1>in the typical nineteen forties illustration style. It's all torn

0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:22.159
<v Speaker 1>up and it just says Poland first to fight. Really

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 1>really was really well done, but it was just so

0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:30.600
<v Speaker 1>iconic for the area. They're so cool some of them.

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:35.479
<v Speaker 1>Some of them are a little offensive though. There are

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.480
<v Speaker 1>some serious stereotypes going on, and some of those old posters,

0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:43.399
<v Speaker 1>I will agree, they are very very brutal. Yeah. You

0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 1>know who actually produced some interesting World War two propaganda cartoons,

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Dr Seuss. Yeah, some of them are seriously racist. Yeah, almost,

0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.920
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, especially especially like the

0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:00.520
<v Speaker 1>one with Uncle Sam's in an alley. He's back and

0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.280
<v Speaker 1>he's got all these these these grass they're coming after him,

0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.280
<v Speaker 1>and they have little Japanese faces on them, and it

0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.280
<v Speaker 1>is very very stereotypical. But let's get away from that.

0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:12.440
<v Speaker 1>I have another question, because this is something I've also

0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.240
<v Speaker 1>never understood about Germany, is why didn't they quit when

0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 1>they were ahead? I've never understood and this is maybe

0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 1>just well, yeah, why did they Why did they decide

0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.119
<v Speaker 1>to do that? Why did they continue to push on

0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 1>into North Africa? I mean they had they had essentially

0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 1>rolled through a huge part of Western Europe, and if

0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:37.560
<v Speaker 1>they had just stopped and sat, that's how countries have

0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.760
<v Speaker 1>been formed for thousands of years is we took it

0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.639
<v Speaker 1>over and we just stayed and eventually everybody went, okay,

0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.360
<v Speaker 1>well that's yours. We don't like it, but that's yours.

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Why did why did the Why didn't the Romans stop

0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:51.240
<v Speaker 1>when they were ahead? Well I don't understand that either.

0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:53.439
<v Speaker 1>That's why I'm asking is I've never understood why they

0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:55.760
<v Speaker 1>didn't say, here's the question we took Europe. Just a

0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:59.199
<v Speaker 1>question for a while. When you go like gamble, do

0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.600
<v Speaker 1>you stop when you're it? Yeah? Do you actually? Absolutely?

0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:07.480
<v Speaker 1>I have a system. Okay, okay, cheating doesn't count. No,

0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:10.240
<v Speaker 1>I have X amount of money. I'm going to gamble,

0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and that money's in one pocket, and if I win,

0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.760
<v Speaker 1>I put it in another pocket. And when the original

0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.720
<v Speaker 1>bank is empty, if there's money left over, I walk out.

0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:25.040
<v Speaker 1>That's not stopping. But but if I win. If I

0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:27.400
<v Speaker 1>let's say I'm on a slot machine and I hit

0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 1>and I win a hunter bucks on a nickel slot,

0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:31.880
<v Speaker 1>I'll say, all right, well now my bank, I can't

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:36.120
<v Speaker 1>go below let's say eight bucks. So I'm I'm continually

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:38.159
<v Speaker 1>setting a bar that I will not drop below. So

0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:41.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm always add so I do stop when I'm ahead.

0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:44.479
<v Speaker 1>I think the thought process is that you like, okay, so,

0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:46.640
<v Speaker 1>yeah they were ahead because they had like a bunch

0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 1>in their winning pocket, right, but they still had money

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:51.520
<v Speaker 1>in their other pockets, so it still felt like I'm

0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:54.639
<v Speaker 1>winning even though you know, okay, well, if I gamble

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.960
<v Speaker 1>this like one nickel, strategically, you know what. Gambling is

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.920
<v Speaker 1>not the right pa betaphor. It is such a big

0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:05.240
<v Speaker 1>area that strategically the resources don't make sense to me.

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:08.200
<v Speaker 1>It's something that I've never understood. I think. I think

0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:10.320
<v Speaker 1>people have a hard time stopping on their heads, and

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.040
<v Speaker 1>that's probably what I mean. Hitler had gone a little.

0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.440
<v Speaker 1>They also think you get delusional. It could have been that. Yeah,

0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:18.640
<v Speaker 1>he definitely did bite off more than you can chew.

0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:21.320
<v Speaker 1>You should have looked at the lessons of history. I mean,

0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Napoleon didn't fare that well in Russia either, did he.

0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Nobody fares well in Russia. Russian has barely fared well.

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.080
<v Speaker 1>The joke is like, come to Russia and our country

0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:35.760
<v Speaker 1>will fight you. The actual terrain just kills people. The

0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:38.639
<v Speaker 1>people of Russia don't have to do anything they have.

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:43.040
<v Speaker 1>There is a lot of strategic depth there too, to

0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.240
<v Speaker 1>surrender a lot of territory, and oh yeah, you can

0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:48.000
<v Speaker 1>continue to just give and give and give in the ground,

0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:50.280
<v Speaker 1>we'll just eat up the troops that are invading. Yeah,

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:53.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I took us way off track that okay, yeah,

0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:56.320
<v Speaker 1>we are way off track, by the way. So far,

0:24:56.320 --> 0:24:58.560
<v Speaker 1>I haven't mentioned what happened back in Germany when Hitler

0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 1>found out about all this. This was a day after

0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:05.760
<v Speaker 1>this is eleven. Hass had given his adjutant, a guy

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:09.000
<v Speaker 1>named Carl Heinz Pinch, a letter to deliver to Hitler

0:25:09.040 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 1>the day after has left and also to basically tell

0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:16.520
<v Speaker 1>him what he had done. So Pinch delivered his report.

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Apparently Hitler blew his stack. He delivered it directly to Hitler.

0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah he did, ok, Yeah, and he was rather upset.

0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:27.439
<v Speaker 1>And it was unfortunate for for Pinch because you know,

0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:29.000
<v Speaker 1>it was like, you know, shoot the messenger and all

0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:32.840
<v Speaker 1>that stuff. He was arrested and jailed, and also a

0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:36.480
<v Speaker 1>lot of other people around Hess were also arrested. Uh.

0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:39.280
<v Speaker 1>Pinch was later released, but then he was sent to

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:41.520
<v Speaker 1>the Eastern Front to fight the Russians, and so he

0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:46.560
<v Speaker 1>really wasn't released. Yeah, basically a big step down for him.

0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:50.679
<v Speaker 1>Is the allegation that Pinch knew what the letter contained, Like,

0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.840
<v Speaker 1>did he know that Hass had left? Yeah? Yeah, I

0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:55.600
<v Speaker 1>think that it wasn't just like, Okay, I'm going to

0:25:55.640 --> 0:25:57.880
<v Speaker 1>bed give this letter to Hitler tomorrow. Well I don't

0:25:57.880 --> 0:25:59.760
<v Speaker 1>think it was just him giving the letter to Hitler.

0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:01.800
<v Speaker 1>I think he also gave him an oral report basically

0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:04.800
<v Speaker 1>said you know, Hass has gone to I can understand

0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:07.600
<v Speaker 1>why you would you would arrest him. Then, I mean

0:26:07.760 --> 0:26:11.600
<v Speaker 1>it's more than yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally is true.

0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to be clear on that. It wasn't

0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:15.119
<v Speaker 1>just like literally he was like, I don't know, Hess

0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:17.440
<v Speaker 1>just gave me this letter to give to you. Yeah,

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:21.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what's in it. Yeah yeah, but apparently

0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:24.119
<v Speaker 1>and decides which Even if he hadn't said anything like that,

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure that would have been suspicions. Yeah. Yeah. Pinch

0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:30.040
<v Speaker 1>was then captured by the Russia. Oh yeah, I was

0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:33.280
<v Speaker 1>captured by the Russian, tortured, tortured, held in captivity for

0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:36.680
<v Speaker 1>like ten years or something like some crazy eleven page

0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:42.240
<v Speaker 1>like a story or something. It was a page I

0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:44.560
<v Speaker 1>don't know, confession or just telling all he knew or

0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:47.800
<v Speaker 1>whatever that was eventually found in the historical archives many

0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:51.359
<v Speaker 1>million years later. So Hitler said at the at the

0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:53.320
<v Speaker 1>time that he felt like it was a huge betrayal

0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:56.680
<v Speaker 1>because he was such a good friend. He also said,

0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:58.800
<v Speaker 1>as I said earlier, that he thought that Hess had

0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:02.000
<v Speaker 1>just gone over the edge, and again Winston Churchill agreed

0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:03.439
<v Speaker 1>with him on that one. They didn't agree on a

0:27:03.440 --> 0:27:07.720
<v Speaker 1>whole lot. Yeah, and also Hitler apparently gave orders that

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Hess was to be shot on site if he returned

0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:12.320
<v Speaker 1>to Germany. Well back to Hesson in Scotland. He was

0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:15.600
<v Speaker 1>shuffled around to various places, eventually wind up spending thirteen

0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:17.879
<v Speaker 1>months in a place called camp Z. He was in

0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:20.320
<v Speaker 1>the Tower of London for a while. Yeah. Before that, yeah,

0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:21.960
<v Speaker 1>I was. I just didn't want to give a laundry

0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:25.119
<v Speaker 1>list of all the places. When I noticed that, I

0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, he's another one of the because there

0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:28.840
<v Speaker 1>was only two Germans that were in the tower. Ever

0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:31.359
<v Speaker 1>it was one of them. Yeah, lucky him. Camps He

0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:33.919
<v Speaker 1>was a mansion in the town of Mitchett outside of London.

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.879
<v Speaker 1>Um kind of south west is love London. And by

0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:39.440
<v Speaker 1>the way, I'm sure I'll get at least one email

0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:44.200
<v Speaker 1>telling me that it's actually pronounced mitch m I did

0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:47.040
<v Speaker 1>look it up on the on the Internet and supposedly

0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 1>it is pronounced mitchett. So I hope that's right. Well, yeah,

0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:52.679
<v Speaker 1>if I'm wrong, let me know. So at this point

0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 1>has really saw himself as a diplomatic emissary, and uh,

0:27:57.080 --> 0:27:59.200
<v Speaker 1>he demanded to be sent back to Germany while the

0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:02.679
<v Speaker 1>British didn't. Asylum. That's interesting. What's not asylum? What is

0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:05.960
<v Speaker 1>it called, like diplomatic community or something. But you know,

0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:10.440
<v Speaker 1>it's like that. The problem was has swore the whole

0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 1>time that Hitler never had any clue that he was

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:15.840
<v Speaker 1>going to leave and go to Britain. And so because

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:18.439
<v Speaker 1>of that, because he essentially hadn't really been sent by

0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:22.520
<v Speaker 1>the German government as an official emissary, Churchill in the

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:26.439
<v Speaker 1>Gang felt like, well, we can keep him. Yeah, I

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:29.760
<v Speaker 1>mean I think I understand that empirically, but I understand

0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Hess's argument too. Right, He's like third in command of

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.080
<v Speaker 1>the of the German government, so he sent himself on

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:38.720
<v Speaker 1>a mission and they're saying no, no, no, the German

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 1>government didn't sent you. But I well, the problem is

0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:48.160
<v Speaker 1>is that his position was a puppet position, had absolutely

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:51.719
<v Speaker 1>no power he had been progressively pushed farther and farther

0:28:51.840 --> 0:28:55.840
<v Speaker 1>out of the power structure of the regime. But you

0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:59.000
<v Speaker 1>we all know that guy, right, the guy who the

0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:02.920
<v Speaker 1>Dwight shrut of of the group, right, that's you know,

0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:06.400
<v Speaker 1>assistant to the manager. And he keeps saying, yeah, I'm

0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the assistant manager, and it's like no, no, no, you're

0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:10.840
<v Speaker 1>the assistant to the manager. You keep getting pushed out

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.560
<v Speaker 1>and told no, but you think that you are so

0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:16.080
<v Speaker 1>much more. So I can understand his argument. It may

0:29:16.160 --> 0:29:19.080
<v Speaker 1>mean that he went loopy, but or it might be

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 1>overstepped his bounds. Yeah, yeah, it might be he thought

0:29:21.680 --> 0:29:23.720
<v Speaker 1>this was a way to really, you know, like he

0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:26.120
<v Speaker 1>thought Hitler wanted this. Yeah, he did. He thought he

0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 1>was doing a good favor for his good buddy. Yeah.

0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:30.440
<v Speaker 1>He was extremely loyal to Hitler. I mean, and even

0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:32.440
<v Speaker 1>though Hitler said he thought this was a betrayal, I

0:29:32.440 --> 0:29:34.160
<v Speaker 1>don't think Hess saw it that way at all. He

0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 1>was trying to do him a favor. It's possible, and

0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:39.400
<v Speaker 1>it's alleged that maybe Hitler didn't think that at first.

0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:40.840
<v Speaker 1>But I know, we're going to get into all of

0:29:40.880 --> 0:29:43.280
<v Speaker 1>this stuff, so well, yeah, there are there are people

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 1>who say otherwise. Yeah, I was just going to throw

0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:47.400
<v Speaker 1>out there that it's also possible that, you know, Hitler

0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:51.080
<v Speaker 1>said off handedly, yeah, I totally want peace with Britain

0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:53.960
<v Speaker 1>and didn't remember it at all, And then you know,

0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 1>has starts planning and plotting and thinking, oh my gosh,

0:29:57.360 --> 0:29:59.160
<v Speaker 1>this is going to be the best surprise for Hitler.

0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 1>When I he's he's gonna love it, and Hitler's like,

0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:05.760
<v Speaker 1>what do you mean I said that. I never said that.

0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:12.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, oh, I was joking. Due remember that time

0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:15.000
<v Speaker 1>you bedazzled an entire fighter plane for me and I

0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:20.560
<v Speaker 1>said I didn't really want that same situation. Yeah, alright,

0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:23.160
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, having a hard time, I identify with hats

0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry because you like the bedazzled things. Yeah, it's

0:30:26.680 --> 0:30:29.880
<v Speaker 1>true and steel planes and history, certainly it hasn't been successful.

0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:34.160
<v Speaker 1>History would have turned out a little differently. Oh absolutely. Yeah. Anyway,

0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:36.640
<v Speaker 1>back to Camp Z. Hass was there for thirteen months.

0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:40.680
<v Speaker 1>As I said, he was, of course, I'm sure being interrogated. Yeah,

0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:42.800
<v Speaker 1>at one point he tried to kill himself, I throw

0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:46.720
<v Speaker 1>himself over a staircase railing because he apparently he was depressed.

0:30:46.760 --> 0:30:49.520
<v Speaker 1>He was pretty disappointed that his peace plan hadn't worked out,

0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:52.959
<v Speaker 1>didn't work out. He was a prisoner. He was like

0:30:53.320 --> 0:30:56.440
<v Speaker 1>he couldn't be friends with his friends anymore, probably being

0:30:56.520 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 1>tortured family, you know, since he wasn't going to see

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:01.840
<v Speaker 1>his family again. Yeah, I'm sure there was a lot

0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 1>to be depressed about. Yeah. He might have also felt

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:07.200
<v Speaker 1>that the patriotic duty to kill himself before the British

0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:10.280
<v Speaker 1>from wrong. Too many secrets out of him. Unfortunately he

0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't succeed, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it.

0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:15.480
<v Speaker 1>He just broke his leg pretty pretty severely too. He

0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:18.320
<v Speaker 1>had to be in traction for like twelve weeks. Yeah,

0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:22.400
<v Speaker 1>that would not be fun. No fun. Yeah, just a

0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:25.080
<v Speaker 1>note to our listeners. Throwing yourself down a staircase not

0:31:25.240 --> 0:31:27.440
<v Speaker 1>the best or over staircase railing not the best way

0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:30.040
<v Speaker 1>to do it. No, not really. It's only two or

0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:32.760
<v Speaker 1>three steps. You're not going to hurt you. Yeah, it was.

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:35.440
<v Speaker 1>It was more than that. He might twist your ankle, yeah,

0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:41.160
<v Speaker 1>wrench it severely. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, After he recovered from

0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:43.760
<v Speaker 1>from his leg thing, Hess was sent to a military

0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:46.920
<v Speaker 1>hospital in South Wales. He stayed in his military hospital

0:31:47.040 --> 0:31:49.000
<v Speaker 1>till the end of the war and apparently that that

0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:51.120
<v Speaker 1>was a good place. It was was a hospital not

0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.240
<v Speaker 1>only for military members but also for POWs, so it

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:57.360
<v Speaker 1>was a fairly secure place, not like your ordinary hospital,

0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.680
<v Speaker 1>and actually required few regards than Cam's. He did. He

0:32:00.720 --> 0:32:02.440
<v Speaker 1>tried to kill himself when he was there, too, didn't

0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:04.280
<v Speaker 1>he He did. He tried to stab himself with a

0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>bread knife. I didn't work out so well either, apparently, jokes.

0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Two stitches, two stitches to sew it up. Man, My

0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:15.280
<v Speaker 1>brother busted open his chin and it took more than that. Yeah,

0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 1>that was a half heart of the tamp I don't.

0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 1>I could never stab myself to that. That would be

0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:20.880
<v Speaker 1>a hard way to That would be tough. People do it,

0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:24.040
<v Speaker 1>But that would be hard, I think people. Yeah, you must,

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:25.800
<v Speaker 1>you really would want to have to die and some

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:29.240
<v Speaker 1>serious resolve. Yeah, Well, as you know, in the end,

0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Germany surrendered. You guys did know that, right? Yeah? I

0:32:32.840 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 1>thought they won. I thought we were speaking. That's wrong.

0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:39.400
<v Speaker 1>That's not real life. No, it's not real life. I

0:32:39.480 --> 0:32:42.280
<v Speaker 1>might be from an alternate universe. You probably are. We

0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:46.040
<v Speaker 1>wondered that about. Oh I'm sorry. Also, it's burn Stein,

0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:51.520
<v Speaker 1>not bernstein Stein. After the surrender in October nineteen, he

0:32:51.760 --> 0:32:55.560
<v Speaker 1>was sent to Nuremberg to face the International Military Tribunal

0:32:55.760 --> 0:32:59.080
<v Speaker 1>ak the nerd Broke trials. You've heard of those, I'm sure, yeah,

0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:02.560
<v Speaker 1>pretty well. Now he was charged with conspiracy to commit crimes,

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:07.600
<v Speaker 1>crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity, all

0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 1>crimes against peace. Yeah, he was trying to make peace. Yeah. Well, anyway,

0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Luckily for him, since he sat out most of the war,

0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:18.760
<v Speaker 1>it was really pretty hard to get convictions on on

0:33:18.920 --> 0:33:21.760
<v Speaker 1>the war crimes and crimes against humanity. But he was

0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:25.000
<v Speaker 1>found guilty of conspiracy and again crimes against peace and

0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:29.520
<v Speaker 1>sentenced to life in prison. Apparently the Soviet Soviet judge

0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:32.360
<v Speaker 1>in the trial wanted to him to die by hanging.

0:33:32.840 --> 0:33:38.560
<v Speaker 1>They had a real thing against him, they really did. Yeah, yeah,

0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:42.440
<v Speaker 1>it is, but yeah, they really didn't like hess. And anyway,

0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:44.640
<v Speaker 1>the French judge wanted to give him twenty years in prison,

0:33:44.960 --> 0:33:47.000
<v Speaker 1>which is probably a little more fair. Correct me if

0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:51.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm wrong. Nobody else got life, Um, there were or

0:33:51.200 --> 0:33:52.560
<v Speaker 1>was it there was a couple that got life who

0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:55.200
<v Speaker 1>didn't live very longer. There were there were three that

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:57.480
<v Speaker 1>got life. Of the seven people that we were sent

0:33:57.520 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 1>to prison, three of them got life, and then the

0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:04.280
<v Speaker 1>other four got fifteen or twenty years depending. I don't

0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:07.880
<v Speaker 1>remember which ones. Yeah, most of them got released early

0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:12.600
<v Speaker 1>except Perhus. He wants to spend out prison in West Berlin,

0:34:12.920 --> 0:34:17.239
<v Speaker 1>which was he's exclusively for the seven prisoners who were

0:34:17.280 --> 0:34:20.880
<v Speaker 1>convicted but not put death. So this this prison was

0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:22.800
<v Speaker 1>a fairly large one. It has six hundred cells, or

0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:24.640
<v Speaker 1>I should say it had six hundred cells. It's not

0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:27.160
<v Speaker 1>there anymore. But they only had seven prisoners. But only

0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:31.000
<v Speaker 1>seven prisoners. Yeah, they were these former high racking Nazis.

0:34:31.280 --> 0:34:34.280
<v Speaker 1>That was run by the four powers, that's the US, Britain,

0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:37.800
<v Speaker 1>France and the USSR. And they also applied the guards

0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:41.399
<v Speaker 1>and along about nineteen sixty six there were only three

0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:43.719
<v Speaker 1>prisoners left and spanned out. As I said before, I

0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:50.560
<v Speaker 1>had six hundred cells. Yeah, we'd be rattling around that place. Yeah.

0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:54.480
<v Speaker 1>In October nineteen sixty six, Albert Spear and Baldard vont

0:34:54.520 --> 0:34:57.680
<v Speaker 1>S finished their sentences and they left. And so from

0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:00.360
<v Speaker 1>that time on until his death in nineteen eight seven,

0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Rudolfs was the only inmated spend out prison. Twenty one

0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:07.000
<v Speaker 1>years all by yourself in this prison, and you can't

0:35:07.000 --> 0:35:11.400
<v Speaker 1>talk to anybody. Uh, he could have very limited visits,

0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:15.879
<v Speaker 1>visits with his family, but there were guards. He could

0:35:16.120 --> 0:35:18.240
<v Speaker 1>talk to the guards, but the guards were constantly rotating

0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:20.360
<v Speaker 1>in and out from different countries and stuff. But I

0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:23.560
<v Speaker 1>also remember that there was there was sanctions on what

0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:26.319
<v Speaker 1>he could talk about. Now. He wasn't allowed to talk

0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.680
<v Speaker 1>about his piece mission or certain things about what he

0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.280
<v Speaker 1>had done while he was with the Nazi Party, Remember

0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:34.840
<v Speaker 1>there was. It was just it was strange to me

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:39.640
<v Speaker 1>the clampdown on certain topics. Yeah, no, it really is true.

0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:42.040
<v Speaker 1>He was not just allowed to talk freely. Well, I mean,

0:35:42.239 --> 0:35:44.360
<v Speaker 1>did not not apply to all of the prisoners. You know,

0:35:44.400 --> 0:35:46.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that. I just sort of researched this

0:35:46.680 --> 0:35:48.359
<v Speaker 1>from the hest point of view. I'm sure. I'm sure

0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.759
<v Speaker 1>there were there were a lot of restrictions on also

0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:53.160
<v Speaker 1>in their behavior. But even if even if it was

0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:57.000
<v Speaker 1>that way for everybody, it probably didn't end up being

0:35:57.040 --> 0:36:02.080
<v Speaker 1>his extreme because they had other German prisoners to associate with,

0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:05.800
<v Speaker 1>so they at least had some some shared common bond,

0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:10.080
<v Speaker 1>whereas when it's a set of guards who rotate every year,

0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:14.560
<v Speaker 1>you can't make any personal connections. Yeah, not really. I mean,

0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:16.799
<v Speaker 1>there were a few longer term employees like he had.

0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:19.839
<v Speaker 1>I had a friendship with the warden at one time.

0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:22.320
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you more about that later. And that was interesting,

0:36:22.800 --> 0:36:26.160
<v Speaker 1>but I imagine it was probably a lonely existence anyway.

0:36:26.400 --> 0:36:29.440
<v Speaker 1>And even Winston Churchill, who was really no friend of Nazis,

0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:31.600
<v Speaker 1>once said that he felt that the treatment of Pass

0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:35.000
<v Speaker 1>was really overly harsh, especially considering that he had come

0:36:35.000 --> 0:36:36.839
<v Speaker 1>to Scotland in good faith to try to broke her

0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:40.560
<v Speaker 1>a peace. But and and there was the other three

0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:43.600
<v Speaker 1>powers had talked about releasing him and then said they

0:36:43.600 --> 0:36:47.040
<v Speaker 1>will be willing to do so, but the Soviets always vetoted.

0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:50.080
<v Speaker 1>It's because again they just didn't like in them. I'm

0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:55.120
<v Speaker 1>guessing it required a majority vote, yeah, and required unanimous vote, yeah,

0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:57.880
<v Speaker 1>and so and so anyway, that's pretty much the end

0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:02.240
<v Speaker 1>of it. He died in um by hanging. He hung himself,

0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:05.319
<v Speaker 1>although again that's a mystery. So but our mystery right

0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:07.520
<v Speaker 1>now is did he go of his own volition or

0:37:07.520 --> 0:37:11.000
<v Speaker 1>did Hitler order him to go piece mission mission? And

0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:13.520
<v Speaker 1>there's there's still some debate about that. I mean, generally

0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:15.960
<v Speaker 1>the historians agree that he just wanted his own and

0:37:16.000 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 1>that Hitler was really upset about it. But there's since

0:37:19.719 --> 0:37:21.960
<v Speaker 1>there's some evidence that maybe he didn't just decide to

0:37:21.960 --> 0:37:23.440
<v Speaker 1>go on his own, or maybe he maybe it was

0:37:23.520 --> 0:37:26.680
<v Speaker 1>his idea, Hitler signed off on it, maybe Hitler ordered

0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:28.120
<v Speaker 1>him to do it. And the other thing is what

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.600
<v Speaker 1>made them think that this was a good idea? Yeah,

0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:34.479
<v Speaker 1>I mean really that. Yeah, so we're gonna tackle that first,

0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:37.360
<v Speaker 1>and then we'll tackle the death. We'll tackle of the

0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:44.479
<v Speaker 1>mystery of the suicide or murder. Yeah. Second, so the theories, Uh, well,

0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:46.400
<v Speaker 1>he wanted his own and after all, this is what

0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:49.920
<v Speaker 1>hass always said, and that's what Hitler said. Uh. And

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Hitler supposedly did get very furious when he heard about

0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:54.680
<v Speaker 1>this flight. It doesn't sound like some guy who knew

0:37:54.680 --> 0:37:57.360
<v Speaker 1>it advance. And plus the night that Hess landed in Scotland,

0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:01.200
<v Speaker 1>the lutwaffe bombed London very heavily. Not really something you're

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:03.440
<v Speaker 1>gonna do if you're trying to put forward, you know,

0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:06.960
<v Speaker 1>peace feelers. Okay, so I'll play devil's gude forget on

0:38:07.000 --> 0:38:11.319
<v Speaker 1>that is that's a great way to distract from your

0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:16.000
<v Speaker 1>secret peace emissary coming to the country's too. Yeah. Yeah,

0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:18.520
<v Speaker 1>you're going to assume that the r r af is

0:38:18.560 --> 0:38:20.719
<v Speaker 1>going to be kind of tied up with that. I'm

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:24.560
<v Speaker 1>not so interested in this one bogie over there. So that's, uh,

0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:26.680
<v Speaker 1>that's one theory that The other theory is that he

0:38:26.719 --> 0:38:29.279
<v Speaker 1>went with Hitler's permission. And actually I read an article

0:38:29.280 --> 0:38:32.080
<v Speaker 1>that was written I think in three or forty I

0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:34.680
<v Speaker 1>can't remember when, and I forgot the magazine it was

0:38:34.680 --> 0:38:38.799
<v Speaker 1>published yet. But according to this theory, just the one

0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:42.040
<v Speaker 1>that was in three parts. The article was all continuous

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:45.520
<v Speaker 1>informent we looked at, but it was broken into three parts. Yeah, yeah,

0:38:45.600 --> 0:38:47.400
<v Speaker 1>this was I found this on a bit of outlay

0:38:47.400 --> 0:38:49.240
<v Speaker 1>and issue. Yeah, I don't I don't know how supported

0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:51.799
<v Speaker 1>this stuff was. But essentially the idea was is that

0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:55.120
<v Speaker 1>is that he had to have had Hitler's sign off

0:38:55.120 --> 0:38:56.920
<v Speaker 1>on the whole thing, because otherwise, what's the point. You

0:38:56.960 --> 0:38:58.799
<v Speaker 1>can come before you can you can talk about making

0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:02.399
<v Speaker 1>other concessions you want, but Hitler doesn't want to do that. Well,

0:39:02.640 --> 0:39:05.120
<v Speaker 1>you know you're not going to get very far. There

0:39:05.160 --> 0:39:07.360
<v Speaker 1>was an article about this. Did you want to say something, No,

0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:08.960
<v Speaker 1>I was just I was just agreeing with that. I mean,

0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:12.839
<v Speaker 1>that does stick out to me as it's not as

0:39:12.880 --> 0:39:15.680
<v Speaker 1>though this is one of the situations where Hess would

0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:18.440
<v Speaker 1>come back and say, listen, the Brits are being really reasonable.

0:39:18.520 --> 0:39:20.200
<v Speaker 1>You're going to kind of look like an idiot if

0:39:20.200 --> 0:39:22.520
<v Speaker 1>you don't accept it. Hitler, it would have been really

0:39:22.520 --> 0:39:24.000
<v Speaker 1>easy for Hitler to say, no, I don't want to

0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:27.759
<v Speaker 1>do any of that, thanks um, versus going with some

0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:30.000
<v Speaker 1>of you know, knowing what Hitler is willing to give,

0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:34.800
<v Speaker 1>that makes for a much more powerful situation. Yeah, I

0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:39.160
<v Speaker 1>definitely think that it increases your outs of success because, frankly,

0:39:39.680 --> 0:39:41.839
<v Speaker 1>although I guess there is something to be said for

0:39:42.120 --> 0:39:44.200
<v Speaker 1>if he was close enough to Hitler, it wouldn't be

0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:46.560
<v Speaker 1>very hard for him to say, so what you know,

0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:49.400
<v Speaker 1>what's the deal breaker for you? Yeah, what's important to

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 1>you to keep? And what's what are you willing to

0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:54.000
<v Speaker 1>give up? He could have just in casual conversation over

0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:56.479
<v Speaker 1>the year that he was planning his trip, right, Yeah,

0:39:56.480 --> 0:40:00.520
<v Speaker 1>you could have done that. Yeah. Yeah. My whole thing

0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:03.640
<v Speaker 1>with Hitler had to know because I mean Hess is

0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:07.600
<v Speaker 1>quoted as saying Hitler is the party, and the party

0:40:07.760 --> 0:40:13.440
<v Speaker 1>is Hitler, and other statements that equated to him believing

0:40:13.520 --> 0:40:17.799
<v Speaker 1>that that the fear was God, that he was so

0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:21.880
<v Speaker 1>powerful and he was had to be followed that. I

0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:27.280
<v Speaker 1>just can't see him suddenly turning away and doing something

0:40:27.480 --> 0:40:32.360
<v Speaker 1>without the permission. But he didn't. I'm sorry to be

0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:34.520
<v Speaker 1>trampling all over this because I know we have more

0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:39.200
<v Speaker 1>information in this theory. But he didn't see it as treason, right.

0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:41.160
<v Speaker 1>He saw it as he thought like it was a

0:40:41.160 --> 0:40:44.920
<v Speaker 1>surprise party for Hitler. But but his but his personality

0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 1>never supported that. They called him the brown mouse, meaning

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:51.719
<v Speaker 1>he was meek and mild, and he was only brown

0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:55.200
<v Speaker 1>because he was wearing the brown shirt. He didn't have

0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:59.960
<v Speaker 1>any initiative. That's why for the three years prior, every

0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:03.880
<v Speaker 1>body else had been, you know, jockeying for position, and

0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:07.000
<v Speaker 1>he slowly got pushed out and he was given a

0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:12.480
<v Speaker 1>made up honorific title, like the guy had no gumption

0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:15.279
<v Speaker 1>of his own. Yeah, he was. He was definitely not

0:41:15.719 --> 0:41:18.239
<v Speaker 1>not not a hard as hard ass like like say

0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Hitler goring those people. He wanted to serve the fear,

0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:26.560
<v Speaker 1>He wanted to serve the cause. That's that's the impression

0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:29.920
<v Speaker 1>that But I guess my my counter to that is

0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:32.080
<v Speaker 1>it he thought he was and you know, but I

0:41:32.120 --> 0:41:35.640
<v Speaker 1>could have been completely misdirected. I am not disagreeing with

0:41:35.640 --> 0:41:37.439
<v Speaker 1>that at all, And I totally hear what you're saying.

0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:39.839
<v Speaker 1>This is one of those amicable moments. I totally hear

0:41:39.920 --> 0:41:42.600
<v Speaker 1>you're saying that. You know, but he he wouldn't have

0:41:42.719 --> 0:41:45.280
<v Speaker 1>had he wouldn't have taken that initiative. His character didn't

0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:49.160
<v Speaker 1>show the right Yeah, but it is possible that he

0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:51.520
<v Speaker 1>went went there entirely on his own and he was

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:54.080
<v Speaker 1>just kind of delusional and actually thought he was going

0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:57.040
<v Speaker 1>to succeed. But back to the Hitler thing, where Hitler

0:41:57.080 --> 0:42:00.920
<v Speaker 1>had there is some evidence that Hitler didn't well at advance.

0:42:01.320 --> 0:42:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Has his Rudolf has his son Wolf has? Yeah. Now

0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:08.239
<v Speaker 1>I wrote a long article about this that my first

0:42:08.280 --> 0:42:12.160
<v Speaker 1>child Wolf find it's a cool names. Your last name, No,

0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:15.040
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't do it. Well, she'll have a different last name.

0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:21.839
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna make it up. Oh anyway, Yeah, the Wolf sideways.

0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Sideways is a hard name to plan for it. Yeah. Yeah.

0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:29.279
<v Speaker 1>Back to mctor Wolf's evidence, Okay, uh. He says that

0:42:29.400 --> 0:42:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Hitler and hess met for four hours on May tenth,

0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:35.040
<v Speaker 1>just not just just a few hours before he left

0:42:35.080 --> 0:42:38.359
<v Speaker 1>to fly to Scotland, and Hess, as as we have said,

0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:41.440
<v Speaker 1>was pretty much sideline in German. Germany by now, and

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:43.560
<v Speaker 1>he really wasn't involved with the war effort or with

0:42:43.600 --> 0:42:46.640
<v Speaker 1>foreign affairs, and so I'm finding it hard to believe

0:42:46.719 --> 0:42:49.279
<v Speaker 1>hit would have carved out four hours for him if

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.640
<v Speaker 1>it didn't actually involve the war or foreign affairs. Oh.

0:42:51.960 --> 0:42:53.960
<v Speaker 1>I can totally tell you what they were doing. They

0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:57.719
<v Speaker 1>were watching the latest Michael Bay transformers movement. Those are

0:42:57.719 --> 0:43:00.879
<v Speaker 1>four hours long. That's a good point. Lord of the Rings.

0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:04.280
<v Speaker 1>They were watching the Hobbit. Yeah, that's an easy four

0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 1>hour time commitment. Some time off, No, no, wait, this

0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:11.440
<v Speaker 1>was the nineteen Oh they didn't have that yet, No,

0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:14.560
<v Speaker 1>damn it. Yeah, I think it. I think it was

0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:18.239
<v Speaker 1>right around this time that Tolkien was writing Lord of

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:23.160
<v Speaker 1>the Rings, wasn't it. Yeah? Pretty close. Yeah. Okay, So

0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:26.000
<v Speaker 1>hess was involved with foreign affairs in the war. No

0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:29.640
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't. He wasn't. He was involved with more domestic stuff.

0:43:29.719 --> 0:43:32.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh I see that. Okay, Yeah, okay, got it. Why

0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:34.120
<v Speaker 1>would hit like at the time unless it wasn't one

0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:36.800
<v Speaker 1>of those things. I mean, he's busy planning Operation Barbara

0:43:36.880 --> 0:43:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Rosa and and you know, the bombing of London and

0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:41.799
<v Speaker 1>everything else. And we're saying Hitler didn't have any kind

0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 1>of love for friends. Oh no, No, I mean he did.

0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:48.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure, but I don't know that he would have

0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:52.279
<v Speaker 1>had four hours to spend with Hess just hanging out

0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:54.480
<v Speaker 1>when there was so much more. He's had a lot

0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:56.399
<v Speaker 1>of work to do, a lot of politicking to do.

0:43:57.040 --> 0:43:59.279
<v Speaker 1>You take twenty minutes and you hang out with your

0:43:59.280 --> 0:44:02.080
<v Speaker 1>buddy and you have a drink. You don't take four hours. Yeah.

0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:07.120
<v Speaker 1>I get where this is. This doesn't prove anything, but

0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:10.200
<v Speaker 1>but it's interesting and it's Uh. The next thing is

0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:14.160
<v Speaker 1>as you mentioned us, As we mentioned earlier, Karl Heinz Pinch,

0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:17.840
<v Speaker 1>the adjutant to deliver the letter together, who was captured.

0:44:17.880 --> 0:44:21.319
<v Speaker 1>They and a Storian came across what was his name?

0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Mattias discovered this document in the Russian State Archives, written

0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:29.520
<v Speaker 1>by Pinch, was handwritten, and according to what he said

0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:34.360
<v Speaker 1>about the encounter with Hitler, Pinch said it quote Hitler

0:44:34.400 --> 0:44:36.680
<v Speaker 1>calmly listened to my report and just missed me without

0:44:36.760 --> 0:44:40.839
<v Speaker 1>comment unquote. Yeah. Pinch said that Hitler had known about

0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:44.120
<v Speaker 1>the flight plan for a long time and so that

0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:46.839
<v Speaker 1>that was the impression that he had. So when where

0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:50.040
<v Speaker 1>did the maddest hell story come from? Uh? You know,

0:44:50.200 --> 0:44:52.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking that might have been cooked up to reassure

0:44:52.680 --> 0:44:54.680
<v Speaker 1>the Japanese and the Italians that Hitler wasn't trying to

0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:56.960
<v Speaker 1>stab him in the back by making peace with Britain.

0:44:57.760 --> 0:44:59.960
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's why has was loyal to the

0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:02.840
<v Speaker 1>loyal to the end and always settle along that it

0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:07.200
<v Speaker 1>was his idea. His family also never got any kind

0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:11.279
<v Speaker 1>of retribution from the Nazi Party. They never never win

0:45:11.320 --> 0:45:13.480
<v Speaker 1>after him. That's the other thing is that, Yeah, a

0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:17.239
<v Speaker 1>lot of people surrounding Hess, even like his astrologer and

0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:19.880
<v Speaker 1>all those people. A fact, all kinds of astrologers were

0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:24.520
<v Speaker 1>rounded up and arrested because that was was really into

0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:27.680
<v Speaker 1>that he was into astrology and all that stuff. Yeah,

0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:29.839
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, I'm reading my signs all the time.

0:45:30.239 --> 0:45:34.760
<v Speaker 1>So all kinds of people suffered retaliation except for Hess's family. Actually,

0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Hitler personally intervened to make sure that nothing happened to them. Yeah. Yeah,

0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:41.520
<v Speaker 1>that's hard. Again, you know, it's it's hard if you're

0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:44.080
<v Speaker 1>really good friends with somebody, you don't necessarily want to

0:45:44.080 --> 0:45:47.000
<v Speaker 1>see their wife and kids heart just because he made

0:45:47.000 --> 0:45:49.960
<v Speaker 1>a bad choice. But I don't know that Hitler necessarily

0:45:49.960 --> 0:45:53.759
<v Speaker 1>strikes me as that kind of guy. Yeah. Again, his

0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:58.080
<v Speaker 1>character didn't reflect that kind of behavior that we know of. Yeah, yeah,

0:45:58.160 --> 0:46:00.920
<v Speaker 1>but I don't know. It could be that that just

0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:02.959
<v Speaker 1>you know, pastimes and all that. You know, I'm gonna

0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:05.560
<v Speaker 1>me to look after his family. It might just be that.

0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:10.400
<v Speaker 1>So so none of this definitively proves anything, although bites

0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:13.400
<v Speaker 1>document is is pretty interesting. Well, it came out in

0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:17.000
<v Speaker 1>they printed that with Der Spiegel. That came out in

0:46:17.120 --> 0:46:19.359
<v Speaker 1>two thousand eleven in an article in Der Spiegel. Yeah,

0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:24.319
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about that Mexic. Okay, so it's like what

0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:27.360
<v Speaker 1>his journal or something that they found. I think it

0:46:27.400 --> 0:46:31.759
<v Speaker 1>was more on the lines of a confession to the Russians.

0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:36.520
<v Speaker 1>It was it was they so the Russians used to

0:46:36.640 --> 0:46:42.680
<v Speaker 1>like to make people right, these long confessions denouncing everything. Yeah,

0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:45.560
<v Speaker 1>but that's my problem with it. Well, but that's that's

0:46:45.600 --> 0:46:48.520
<v Speaker 1>it because there if you ever read any of them,

0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:52.560
<v Speaker 1>they're always crazy long, and they always have a very

0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:58.920
<v Speaker 1>set style and certain verbiaginum. And it's I believe this

0:46:59.239 --> 0:47:02.000
<v Speaker 1>falls right to that category. Yeah, it's it's almost as

0:47:02.040 --> 0:47:04.120
<v Speaker 1>if they told the guy what to write. You know,

0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:08.560
<v Speaker 1>they might have Well, it doesn't using the same book. Yeah,

0:47:08.760 --> 0:47:10.680
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't mean that everything in there was a lie,

0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:14.160
<v Speaker 1>but but you base it on the truth. Yeah. Anyway,

0:47:14.160 --> 0:47:16.840
<v Speaker 1>after the war, some other people gave you talked about

0:47:17.120 --> 0:47:19.239
<v Speaker 1>various things. And then there were two other high ranking

0:47:19.320 --> 0:47:22.279
<v Speaker 1>Nazi Party members hanging with Hitler at that time when

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:24.600
<v Speaker 1>he received the letter in the news that has had

0:47:24.680 --> 0:47:27.520
<v Speaker 1>left to go to Scotland, and they said that Hitler

0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:30.520
<v Speaker 1>wasn't angry at all. Hitler's vallet said after the war

0:47:31.000 --> 0:47:33.120
<v Speaker 1>that Hitler's behavior at the time indicated to him that

0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:35.759
<v Speaker 1>he must have done advance. He too said Hitler wasn't

0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:39.400
<v Speaker 1>upset at all. Who did you say that too? That

0:47:39.480 --> 0:47:43.000
<v Speaker 1>was his valet he had. I don't know if it

0:47:43.040 --> 0:47:44.799
<v Speaker 1>was a reporter or who he said it to. All

0:47:45.040 --> 0:47:47.560
<v Speaker 1>of it he said that after the war, um the

0:47:47.600 --> 0:47:50.080
<v Speaker 1>valet did say he was actually afraid to ask Hitler

0:47:50.400 --> 0:47:54.239
<v Speaker 1>if he had known ahead of time. He didn't ask him,

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:56.880
<v Speaker 1>but he said his behavior just indicated to him that

0:47:56.920 --> 0:48:00.080
<v Speaker 1>Hitler was not mad. So here's my other problem with

0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:03.200
<v Speaker 1>the with this, with this theory in particular that Hitler

0:48:03.280 --> 0:48:06.640
<v Speaker 1>knew is we talked I started to talk about this earlier.

0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Is the concessions of peace that he was supposedly willing

0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:15.840
<v Speaker 1>to give Germany had just spent the last two years

0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:21.960
<v Speaker 1>marching south through uh Norway and then into France, and

0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:26.040
<v Speaker 1>they would have kept going. No, not nor what's um,

0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:28.680
<v Speaker 1>what's the other one? Just north of France? I can't

0:48:29.680 --> 0:48:32.080
<v Speaker 1>thank you Netherland in Belgium, that's the That's where I

0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:34.800
<v Speaker 1>got the end. But they had spent two years working

0:48:34.840 --> 0:48:37.359
<v Speaker 1>their way south through all of that, and they would

0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:40.239
<v Speaker 1>have kept going into Spain if Franco hadn't been just

0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:42.960
<v Speaker 1>jerking them around the whole time and saying yes, no, yes,

0:48:43.000 --> 0:48:46.960
<v Speaker 1>no games. But my point is, if they've just spent

0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:51.080
<v Speaker 1>all that time and effort to secure it, they've wiped

0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:53.920
<v Speaker 1>out the local governments, they've installed all their own people,

0:48:54.360 --> 0:48:58.000
<v Speaker 1>why would they then suddenly say, you know what does leave,

0:48:58.480 --> 0:49:01.120
<v Speaker 1>It's cool, you can have it at We just wanted

0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:04.920
<v Speaker 1>to check the place out. That doesn't make any sense

0:49:05.080 --> 0:49:08.200
<v Speaker 1>from well, from a wartime perspective to me. You know,

0:49:08.280 --> 0:49:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that they expected to occupy all of

0:49:10.640 --> 0:49:14.520
<v Speaker 1>France forever. They did intended to keep assassin Lorraine even

0:49:14.760 --> 0:49:16.279
<v Speaker 1>but they were going to withdraw from the rest of

0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:19.120
<v Speaker 1>it um so that they didn't really need to be

0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:21.560
<v Speaker 1>running France. I mean, they could have if they had

0:49:21.640 --> 0:49:24.360
<v Speaker 1>that their their chunk of Poland and other parts of

0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Eastern Europe, that was all they really needed. Well, but

0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:29.760
<v Speaker 1>they also what they would do those like in in France,

0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:32.000
<v Speaker 1>they moved in and they put in their own people.

0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:35.800
<v Speaker 1>And then eventually when they took over all of France,

0:49:35.840 --> 0:49:40.479
<v Speaker 1>it's the the Vichy government, the Vicy government. Yeah, they

0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:43.719
<v Speaker 1>those guys were technically still running the country, but they

0:49:43.840 --> 0:49:46.680
<v Speaker 1>knew that they had to keep the Germans happy. And

0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:50.359
<v Speaker 1>the Germans did this like, you can live and do

0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:52.600
<v Speaker 1>what we say, or we can kill you and put

0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:56.439
<v Speaker 1>our own people in, which is way easier. And that's

0:49:56.440 --> 0:49:58.799
<v Speaker 1>what they did. So why would they do all of that?

0:49:59.200 --> 0:50:00.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, it might be that some of this stuff

0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:03.600
<v Speaker 1>was misreported. It might it might have been basically, we're

0:50:03.600 --> 0:50:05.680
<v Speaker 1>not going to withdraw from Western Europe, but we will

0:50:05.760 --> 0:50:09.240
<v Speaker 1>leave you alone. We'll buy will buy your your munition supply,

0:50:09.600 --> 0:50:12.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, for the sake of your economy, and we'll

0:50:12.080 --> 0:50:15.880
<v Speaker 1>leave your overseas possessions alone, you know. And so that

0:50:15.960 --> 0:50:18.200
<v Speaker 1>might have been all the concessions they actually plan to make.

0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:21.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you don't plan for the peace to happen, right,

0:50:22.440 --> 0:50:25.879
<v Speaker 1>You install your government and you say Okay, we're good here,

0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:29.000
<v Speaker 1>but you know how valuable this is to us, and

0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:32.320
<v Speaker 1>we are so committed to peace that we are willing

0:50:32.360 --> 0:50:34.880
<v Speaker 1>to give you this thing that obviously we've fought a

0:50:34.880 --> 0:50:38.000
<v Speaker 1>lot for. So you understand how much we're willing to

0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:41.399
<v Speaker 1>give up for peace. That's how much we wanted. Right

0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:43.920
<v Speaker 1>And if they say no, you've got your thing, you're covered.

0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:45.839
<v Speaker 1>It's fine. You still have your country there that you've

0:50:45.840 --> 0:50:48.960
<v Speaker 1>taken over. If they say yes, great, you've got this

0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:51.759
<v Speaker 1>huge piece of leverage to say great, you're gonna give

0:50:51.840 --> 0:50:54.120
<v Speaker 1>us pretty much the rest of Europe. Yeah, it's just

0:50:54.160 --> 0:50:59.320
<v Speaker 1>there's there's sunk cost for what they did was so large.

0:51:00.320 --> 0:51:02.319
<v Speaker 1>It's just so much, such a such a thing to

0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:05.879
<v Speaker 1>walk away from. They didn't really expand huge resources taking

0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:08.040
<v Speaker 1>over France. It was actually a pretty quick thing. Well,

0:51:08.080 --> 0:51:10.160
<v Speaker 1>but then they spent a bunch of money, you know,

0:51:10.280 --> 0:51:13.239
<v Speaker 1>bomb in Britain and then defending France. I mean a

0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:16.200
<v Speaker 1>lot of munitions. And maybe maybe what I'm responding to

0:51:16.360 --> 0:51:19.200
<v Speaker 1>is more what happened after that, for all everything that

0:51:19.400 --> 0:51:21.520
<v Speaker 1>took place, But it just seems like it was such

0:51:21.600 --> 0:51:24.560
<v Speaker 1>a big friggan investment. I don't think. I don't I

0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:26.719
<v Speaker 1>just don't. I don't think so, okay, I mean, in

0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:29.920
<v Speaker 1>my mind, you know, strategically, it makes a lot more

0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:32.120
<v Speaker 1>sense to be willing to give up something that is

0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:34.560
<v Speaker 1>appears to be very valuable to you that you may

0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:36.680
<v Speaker 1>or may not actually care about in order to be

0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:39.239
<v Speaker 1>able to leverage that to get you more things that

0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:42.319
<v Speaker 1>you actually do care about in the future. It could

0:51:42.320 --> 0:51:47.840
<v Speaker 1>be I don't know, maybe a horrible I don't know.

0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:50.640
<v Speaker 1>That means I'm the guy who will never back down. Nope,

0:51:50.680 --> 0:51:53.799
<v Speaker 1>I made it here, and I'm the one who will

0:51:53.840 --> 0:51:55.839
<v Speaker 1>be like, oh, yeah, it totally looks like I care

0:51:55.880 --> 0:51:59.040
<v Speaker 1>about this jewelry. You can have it, but I'm going

0:51:59.080 --> 0:52:03.400
<v Speaker 1>to take your first child. Devon for everybody who doesn't know,

0:52:03.520 --> 0:52:07.600
<v Speaker 1>just made the creepiest big eye face at me never

0:52:07.640 --> 0:52:12.000
<v Speaker 1>having children. Now, now I'm kind of leaning towards Hitler

0:52:12.120 --> 0:52:16.400
<v Speaker 1>New Yeah, I think, so are there I mean, are

0:52:16.440 --> 0:52:18.879
<v Speaker 1>there any other choices? Is it just the two? Kind

0:52:18.880 --> 0:52:21.080
<v Speaker 1>of those two? That's that's the question that everybody's been

0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:24.400
<v Speaker 1>wondering for all these decades, and it really is a

0:52:24.520 --> 0:52:27.719
<v Speaker 1>historical kind of mystery. And then, of course my other

0:52:27.760 --> 0:52:30.520
<v Speaker 1>question was, how could they have thought this was gonna work.

0:52:30.960 --> 0:52:32.480
<v Speaker 1>How could they have thought this is gonna be a

0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:35.040
<v Speaker 1>good idea? And that's what gets this to the whole

0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:37.360
<v Speaker 1>M I sixth ankle Oh, I thought it was because

0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Hitler was a vegetarian. It might have been that to

0:52:40.040 --> 0:52:42.920
<v Speaker 1>us was a vegetarian also, he was he was like

0:52:42.960 --> 0:52:50.200
<v Speaker 1>really new age and all that plants are bad for you. Yeah.

0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:53.759
<v Speaker 1>But the theory about m I six is is that

0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Hitler and the Germans were putting out some feelers towards

0:52:56.880 --> 0:53:00.760
<v Speaker 1>influential Britishers in the early nineteen forty one on nineteen

0:53:02.520 --> 0:53:05.560
<v Speaker 1>regarding peace negotiations. And of course there was the Anglo

0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:09.800
<v Speaker 1>German Friendship Society or whatever that was called. Yeah, yeah,

0:53:10.480 --> 0:53:12.319
<v Speaker 1>right off the tone, Yeah, And so they were there

0:53:12.360 --> 0:53:15.400
<v Speaker 1>was just so this like aristocracy to aristocracy, you know,

0:53:15.560 --> 0:53:19.560
<v Speaker 1>talking back and forth. And Germany eventually proposed a meeting

0:53:19.560 --> 0:53:23.480
<v Speaker 1>on neutral ground, and that was rejected by the British,

0:53:23.680 --> 0:53:26.400
<v Speaker 1>as the story goes, and so they finally offered to

0:53:26.400 --> 0:53:29.160
<v Speaker 1>send a delicate to England, and they proposed a guy

0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:32.960
<v Speaker 1>named Ernst William Bull as a delicate and there was

0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:36.279
<v Speaker 1>no response from England about this. Yeah, I'm guessing that

0:53:36.360 --> 0:53:39.440
<v Speaker 1>because they were busy dealing with the Luthwaffa. Yeah, that's

0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:42.640
<v Speaker 1>probably it, but they were doing a good job of

0:53:42.680 --> 0:53:44.680
<v Speaker 1>playing it hard to get Eventually Hitler. They were getting

0:53:44.760 --> 0:53:47.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of nervous about this because this is actually kind

0:53:47.080 --> 0:53:50.160
<v Speaker 1>of important to Hitler, I think, to actually not have

0:53:50.360 --> 0:53:52.720
<v Speaker 1>that second front with Britain when he went after the Russians.

0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:54.279
<v Speaker 1>So Hitler came up with the idea of sending a

0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:57.840
<v Speaker 1>really big Nazi to England, somebody with a lot of stature,

0:53:58.160 --> 0:54:00.680
<v Speaker 1>somebody who was close to Hitler, who could readibly speak

0:54:00.719 --> 0:54:04.000
<v Speaker 1>for Hitler. And who else would that be? Rudolf Hess?

0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:05.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he wasn't he wasn't really important to the

0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:09.760
<v Speaker 1>war effort, and he was highly expendable actually, all things considered,

0:54:09.800 --> 0:54:13.160
<v Speaker 1>it was kind of Yeah. Obviously the war continued on

0:54:13.280 --> 0:54:16.040
<v Speaker 1>without him, without a hitch quite well, yeah, for a

0:54:16.120 --> 0:54:20.120
<v Speaker 1>number of years at least he actually has. Yeah. Hess

0:54:20.239 --> 0:54:22.080
<v Speaker 1>was not really violent. I don't think he was really

0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:24.200
<v Speaker 1>into the whole war thing. No, he was just supporting

0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:27.080
<v Speaker 1>the cause. Yeah, I know that well. And and and

0:54:27.120 --> 0:54:30.040
<v Speaker 1>you know the Germany and Germany of the sense had

0:54:30.080 --> 0:54:32.560
<v Speaker 1>a good reason to feel some grievance after the way

0:54:32.560 --> 0:54:34.560
<v Speaker 1>they've been treated after World War One. I'm not saying

0:54:34.560 --> 0:54:37.200
<v Speaker 1>they were justified and anything, No, but they I can

0:54:37.320 --> 0:54:40.920
<v Speaker 1>I understand why there was a lot of angry Germans

0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:45.440
<v Speaker 1>after World War One. Definitely. Yeah, what actually was happening

0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:48.080
<v Speaker 1>is apparently, so the theory goes, and there was a

0:54:48.080 --> 0:54:50.200
<v Speaker 1>little evidence to support this, we're not going to find

0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:53.320
<v Speaker 1>out for a little while, but they were actually negotiating

0:54:53.320 --> 0:54:55.320
<v Speaker 1>with the British Secret Service and not members of the

0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:58.080
<v Speaker 1>royal family or the British aristocracy like they thought they were.

0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:00.400
<v Speaker 1>It was a game, it was it was rude, it

0:55:00.520 --> 0:55:02.920
<v Speaker 1>was a setup. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like they just

0:55:02.960 --> 0:55:04.880
<v Speaker 1>wanted to get their hands on a high ranking Nazi

0:55:05.120 --> 0:55:07.160
<v Speaker 1>and just interrogate the heck out of them, which is

0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:11.760
<v Speaker 1>probably what they did. Yeah. The only the only qualm

0:55:11.760 --> 0:55:14.840
<v Speaker 1>with that I have with this, and it's it stems

0:55:14.920 --> 0:55:18.799
<v Speaker 1>back to that friendship society. The things that I have

0:55:18.960 --> 0:55:23.960
<v Speaker 1>read are that as soon as war broke out, the

0:55:24.080 --> 0:55:28.919
<v Speaker 1>friendship society was dissolved. That's what I heard too. We're yeah,

0:55:28.960 --> 0:55:31.759
<v Speaker 1>we're not friends anymore. You like blew up my house

0:55:31.800 --> 0:55:37.080
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, So no, we're not friends. Absolutely, Well, obviously

0:55:37.160 --> 0:55:38.919
<v Speaker 1>you're not going to be overt, but there was still

0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:42.520
<v Speaker 1>context between the British aristocracy and the German aristocracy. When

0:55:42.520 --> 0:55:45.200
<v Speaker 1>if you have a personal friendship with somebody and they're saying, dude,

0:55:45.239 --> 0:55:49.919
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, but my fear blew your house up, They're

0:55:49.920 --> 0:55:51.560
<v Speaker 1>not going to be like, yeah, I know you ordered

0:55:51.560 --> 0:55:53.680
<v Speaker 1>the bombs. You're gonna say, oh, thank you, I'm so sorry,

0:55:53.760 --> 0:55:57.680
<v Speaker 1>you know. But also it's underground. You know, it's very

0:55:57.719 --> 0:56:00.200
<v Speaker 1>easy to even if it had been totally dissolve, it

0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:01.759
<v Speaker 1>would be very easy for a member of m I

0:56:01.800 --> 0:56:04.560
<v Speaker 1>six to say, oh no, no, I'm part of this thing.

0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:07.680
<v Speaker 1>I know that you think that we're dissolved, but just kidding,

0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:11.040
<v Speaker 1>we're still underground. So that's a good point. I hadn't

0:56:11.040 --> 0:56:15.719
<v Speaker 1>thought about the clandestine side of the society still. So

0:56:15.760 --> 0:56:17.399
<v Speaker 1>that's why you need to meet us in Scotland, not

0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:21.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, at Scotland Yard or London Proper or you know,

0:56:21.239 --> 0:56:24.000
<v Speaker 1>anything like that, and don't follow the loot swop into town.

0:56:24.360 --> 0:56:26.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah you don't want to do that. Let's go talk

0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:28.560
<v Speaker 1>about this, so anyway, do you guys have any favorite

0:56:28.560 --> 0:56:32.960
<v Speaker 1>theories there? I think we new Hitler didn't know they

0:56:32.960 --> 0:56:36.720
<v Speaker 1>were killing I think he did. I know that has

0:56:37.239 --> 0:56:41.120
<v Speaker 1>just stood by that he did it independently, but I

0:56:41.200 --> 0:56:44.080
<v Speaker 1>just I can't buy it. Yeah, I think Hitler knew,

0:56:44.120 --> 0:56:46.920
<v Speaker 1>but I also do give some credence. I wouldn't It

0:56:46.920 --> 0:56:48.799
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't surprise me to find out that my six had

0:56:48.800 --> 0:56:51.920
<v Speaker 1>something to do with it too. The Bridge did pulled

0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:55.520
<v Speaker 1>off a lot of ingenious plans. They really would have

0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:57.759
<v Speaker 1>been a good one. Yeah, they did some amazing stuff. Fact,

0:56:57.760 --> 0:56:59.640
<v Speaker 1>there was another one that I stumbled across. I won't

0:56:59.640 --> 0:57:01.960
<v Speaker 1>mention it now in the course of my research. Is

0:57:02.080 --> 0:57:05.040
<v Speaker 1>this That's another interesting little mystery. We'll talk about that.

0:57:05.280 --> 0:57:07.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, they were really crafty, they were really good. Well,

0:57:07.960 --> 0:57:11.640
<v Speaker 1>when your backs against the wall, you do whatever it takes. Yeah,

0:57:11.640 --> 0:57:13.359
<v Speaker 1>I know. They did a great job of turning all

0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:16.240
<v Speaker 1>the all the German agents against each other against Germany too.

0:57:16.280 --> 0:57:19.200
<v Speaker 1>They totally controlled their entire network in England. I also

0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:21.840
<v Speaker 1>think that part of it though, is that, like we said,

0:57:21.920 --> 0:57:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I was saying before, is that the one thing I

0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:26.440
<v Speaker 1>like about the Germans is they're just it's this and

0:57:26.480 --> 0:57:28.760
<v Speaker 1>we're going to hear and how could you think it

0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:32.480
<v Speaker 1>would be anything else? And are like, uh, nobody else

0:57:32.520 --> 0:57:34.600
<v Speaker 1>thinks that way, dude, but we'll totally use it against you.

0:57:34.760 --> 0:57:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. Yeah, the Germans in World War Two actually

0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:40.280
<v Speaker 1>did not practice good trade craft when he was buying,

0:57:40.600 --> 0:57:43.560
<v Speaker 1>not at all. Yeah. Oh, anyway, so so yeah, so

0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:46.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking that they wouldn't have done it Unlessen received

0:57:46.320 --> 0:57:48.880
<v Speaker 1>encouragement from Britain, and that I think probably came from

0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:51.160
<v Speaker 1>m I six. Might have come from saying members of

0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:53.440
<v Speaker 1>the aristocracy, but I think it probably came from m

0:57:53.440 --> 0:57:56.720
<v Speaker 1>I six. Yeah, let's get on to our other mystery,

0:57:57.520 --> 0:58:00.000
<v Speaker 1>which is how he died. He died in August nine

0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:03.600
<v Speaker 1>seven and spend out prison. Cause of death was suicide

0:58:03.600 --> 0:58:07.120
<v Speaker 1>by asphyxiation. The prison had like that garden. It had

0:58:07.160 --> 0:58:08.720
<v Speaker 1>like a courtyard in the middle of the garden, and

0:58:08.720 --> 0:58:11.040
<v Speaker 1>it had a small summer house that has used as

0:58:11.080 --> 0:58:14.680
<v Speaker 1>a reading room. Oh that's nice. I mean it's nice

0:58:14.760 --> 0:58:17.840
<v Speaker 1>to think, right, you kind of think, well, he was

0:58:17.880 --> 0:58:20.360
<v Speaker 1>in jail for a really, really long time. He just

0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:21.920
<v Speaker 1>had to sit in his cell the whole time. But

0:58:22.000 --> 0:58:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I guess there was this whole entire complex that he

0:58:24.560 --> 0:58:26.640
<v Speaker 1>was nearly one in. Yeah, so it's nice to know

0:58:26.680 --> 0:58:28.240
<v Speaker 1>that they gave him a little place where he could

0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:30.920
<v Speaker 1>read and stuff. I think that as the years went by,

0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:33.280
<v Speaker 1>they got more relaxed. You know, at first it was

0:58:33.400 --> 0:58:37.680
<v Speaker 1>very very stern, very regimented. You can only be visited

0:58:37.680 --> 0:58:40.439
<v Speaker 1>for like thirty minutes a month by anybody. Of course,

0:58:40.480 --> 0:58:42.320
<v Speaker 1>the guards had to be present, and he couldn't talk

0:58:42.320 --> 0:58:46.480
<v Speaker 1>about a whole list of topics. And that eventually that

0:58:46.560 --> 0:58:51.200
<v Speaker 1>got relaxed somewhat, you would assume. Yeah, But anyway, back

0:58:51.240 --> 0:58:54.760
<v Speaker 1>to his death. He uh took an electrical extension cord

0:58:54.800 --> 0:58:56.640
<v Speaker 1>and wrapped one end around a window latch in the

0:58:56.680 --> 0:58:59.160
<v Speaker 1>summer house and then the other around his neck, and

0:58:59.200 --> 0:59:05.200
<v Speaker 1>he hung himself. That doesn't sound pleasant or easy, It doesn't. Yeah,

0:59:05.240 --> 0:59:08.680
<v Speaker 1>he was ninety three years old. He liked to be

0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:11.840
<v Speaker 1>a ripe old age. That's and that is exactly where

0:59:11.880 --> 0:59:14.680
<v Speaker 1>the conspiracy comes from. Is why does a man at

0:59:14.680 --> 0:59:18.640
<v Speaker 1>the age of nine three suddenly decide that he's got

0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:21.920
<v Speaker 1>to take his own I understand it. I totally, I

0:59:21.960 --> 0:59:23.800
<v Speaker 1>totally get this, and I don't think that this is

0:59:23.840 --> 0:59:26.560
<v Speaker 1>a conspiracy in any way, shape or form, but I

0:59:26.640 --> 0:59:29.320
<v Speaker 1>know that's where it comes from. Weight he was super old.

0:59:29.320 --> 0:59:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Why would he do that at this point? Yeah, Well

0:59:31.800 --> 0:59:33.640
<v Speaker 1>he did that. There there was one thing going on.

0:59:34.320 --> 0:59:36.840
<v Speaker 1>His lawyer and his family had been campaigning for a

0:59:36.880 --> 0:59:40.240
<v Speaker 1>long time for him to get released, because everybody else

0:59:40.240 --> 0:59:43.880
<v Speaker 1>has been released. I mean, and several of them actually

0:59:44.720 --> 0:59:47.280
<v Speaker 1>we had life sentences and they were released early. Has

0:59:47.320 --> 0:59:49.360
<v Speaker 1>for everything he did. He did do some bad things,

0:59:49.440 --> 0:59:51.440
<v Speaker 1>but he wasn't as nearly as monstrous as some of

0:59:51.480 --> 0:59:53.880
<v Speaker 1>those other guys were, especially seeing as how he was

0:59:53.960 --> 0:59:57.000
<v Speaker 1>out of the war for four years, he couldn't have

0:59:57.040 --> 1:00:00.680
<v Speaker 1>been involved in all of that other stuff. Yeah. But

1:00:00.800 --> 1:00:02.400
<v Speaker 1>the thing about it is is every time the issue

1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:05.360
<v Speaker 1>came up to Sylviet's, as I said previously, always videoed

1:00:05.400 --> 1:00:08.439
<v Speaker 1>the idea and they might have still been mad about Barbarossa,

1:00:08.880 --> 1:00:10.920
<v Speaker 1>and maybe they figured Hess was part of the planning

1:00:10.920 --> 1:00:13.000
<v Speaker 1>of that. I'm not sure that he was. Probably not.

1:00:13.120 --> 1:00:15.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I know he was aware of it, but

1:00:16.160 --> 1:00:19.480
<v Speaker 1>awareness is not responsibility. Yeah. But the thing about the

1:00:19.520 --> 1:00:21.520
<v Speaker 1>Sylvius too is the Russians are still mad at us

1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:24.200
<v Speaker 1>over World War Two. They really are. I mean, then

1:00:24.240 --> 1:00:26.520
<v Speaker 1>we let them bleed for years before we finally did

1:00:26.520 --> 1:00:28.640
<v Speaker 1>something about it. And think I think that some of

1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:31.240
<v Speaker 1>them at least don't really like us, you know. Yeah,

1:00:31.480 --> 1:00:34.000
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not totally surprised that the sylviet has had

1:00:34.000 --> 1:00:37.000
<v Speaker 1>a grudge against him. But also SPANDO was located in

1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:40.640
<v Speaker 1>West Berlin, which gave the Sylviets a really nice opportunity

1:00:40.680 --> 1:00:42.640
<v Speaker 1>to send spies in for a looxie. Some of those

1:00:42.680 --> 1:00:46.880
<v Speaker 1>guards maybe weren't just straight up guards. Yeah, that's kind

1:00:46.880 --> 1:00:50.320
<v Speaker 1>of a shame to keep one well West Berlin, and

1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:52.440
<v Speaker 1>they wanted to actually be able to go in and

1:00:52.800 --> 1:00:56.040
<v Speaker 1>look around and gather intelligence. And so being able to

1:00:56.240 --> 1:00:59.480
<v Speaker 1>being able to send your personnel to spandau in the

1:00:59.560 --> 1:01:03.120
<v Speaker 1>commune from the border to the prison, they could take

1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:05.720
<v Speaker 1>a diversion and look around, is that what you're getting

1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:09.200
<v Speaker 1>in and look around, maybe maybe pick up stuff from spies,

1:01:09.320 --> 1:01:13.000
<v Speaker 1>from dead drops, things like that. Yeah, and I when

1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:15.600
<v Speaker 1>you said that, I took it as something at the prison,

1:01:15.640 --> 1:01:17.320
<v Speaker 1>which it makes sense. But that makes a whole lot

1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:19.520
<v Speaker 1>more sense, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, so they could

1:01:19.520 --> 1:01:22.280
<v Speaker 1>have it could have been totally just for espionage. And

1:01:22.280 --> 1:01:24.880
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of a shame to keep this one guy

1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:28.480
<v Speaker 1>locked up for twenty one extra years. But he was

1:01:28.520 --> 1:01:30.840
<v Speaker 1>a tool at that point. Yeah, and so that match

1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:33.040
<v Speaker 1>that might be one of the reasons why they kept

1:01:33.080 --> 1:01:36.000
<v Speaker 1>insisting that did not be released. Things began to change

1:01:36.000 --> 1:01:39.240
<v Speaker 1>in Night seven. Michail Robachov was in power relationship were

1:01:39.240 --> 1:01:41.760
<v Speaker 1>thawing out a little bit between the East and the West,

1:01:42.440 --> 1:01:45.640
<v Speaker 1>and the Sylviets began to express a bit more I guess,

1:01:45.680 --> 1:01:48.400
<v Speaker 1>receptivity to the idea of letting Hess go. And there

1:01:48.440 --> 1:01:51.280
<v Speaker 1>was a report published again in their Spiegel in April

1:01:51.320 --> 1:01:54.160
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty seven that said Garbagehov was now taking the

1:01:54.240 --> 1:01:57.240
<v Speaker 1>view that releasing Hess would be seeing worldwide as a

1:01:57.320 --> 1:02:01.320
<v Speaker 1>quote gesture of humanity unquote. Now I'm sure that I'm

1:02:01.320 --> 1:02:06.240
<v Speaker 1>sure that that remark was read by everybody in the British,

1:02:06.240 --> 1:02:09.880
<v Speaker 1>French and American intelligence services UM, and some people believe

1:02:09.960 --> 1:02:12.000
<v Speaker 1>this might have set off alarm bells in the British

1:02:12.000 --> 1:02:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Secret Service. Yeah why why, Well, we'll get to that

1:02:16.480 --> 1:02:18.919
<v Speaker 1>in a sect. But from Hess this point of view,

1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:22.240
<v Speaker 1>if Russia is finally going to agree to let you go,

1:02:22.440 --> 1:02:24.360
<v Speaker 1>he might have actually been just a few weeks or

1:02:24.400 --> 1:02:26.800
<v Speaker 1>months from freedom, and even though he didn't have a

1:02:26.840 --> 1:02:28.640
<v Speaker 1>hell of a lot longer to live. You know, if

1:02:28.640 --> 1:02:30.600
<v Speaker 1>you've been locked up all those years, wouldn't getting out

1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:33.200
<v Speaker 1>at least and being free to look around and take

1:02:33.240 --> 1:02:35.400
<v Speaker 1>in the world and you know all that stuff, wouldn't

1:02:35.400 --> 1:02:37.640
<v Speaker 1>that be a worthwhile thing? Do you think he knew

1:02:37.800 --> 1:02:40.000
<v Speaker 1>though that he was going to get out, that it

1:02:40.080 --> 1:02:41.640
<v Speaker 1>was possible that he was going to get out, or

1:02:41.960 --> 1:02:44.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, would that necessarily have been communicated to him?

1:02:44.920 --> 1:02:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Is there any proof that it was communicated to him.

1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:48.920
<v Speaker 1>He did get to read the papers and stuff, but

1:02:48.960 --> 1:02:51.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if the stuff that was about him

1:02:51.360 --> 1:02:55.760
<v Speaker 1>or I mean they did. Yeah, so he might not

1:02:55.800 --> 1:02:57.520
<v Speaker 1>have found out, but he was by this time. He

1:02:57.640 --> 1:02:59.920
<v Speaker 1>for years he didn't have any any visits from his fan,

1:03:01.280 --> 1:03:03.560
<v Speaker 1>but he started having regular visits from his family, So

1:03:03.600 --> 1:03:06.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm guessing that sometimes I think it's reasonable to assume

1:03:06.560 --> 1:03:09.480
<v Speaker 1>that he did know. Yeah, I think that's sometime between

1:03:09.600 --> 1:03:12.080
<v Speaker 1>April and August, he probably had at least want to

1:03:12.160 --> 1:03:14.800
<v Speaker 1>visit from his lawyer and his family, and they probably

1:03:14.840 --> 1:03:16.800
<v Speaker 1>and they probably said that the hey, good news, he

1:03:16.920 --> 1:03:19.640
<v Speaker 1>might be getting out, and even a month of freedom

1:03:19.680 --> 1:03:24.320
<v Speaker 1>after forty years of prison would be the best month ever.

1:03:24.440 --> 1:03:27.040
<v Speaker 1>Even if all you could do was get pushed around

1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:29.800
<v Speaker 1>in a wheelchair by your family, at least you're with

1:03:29.840 --> 1:03:34.640
<v Speaker 1>your family and not that freaking prison anymore. I don't know.

1:03:34.960 --> 1:03:36.960
<v Speaker 1>You think there's the fear of being released, that's a

1:03:37.040 --> 1:03:39.000
<v Speaker 1>that's a common thing. I think there's a little bit

1:03:39.000 --> 1:03:40.920
<v Speaker 1>of the fear of being released. There's a bit of

1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:44.960
<v Speaker 1>the fear of perception, not knowing how people will react

1:03:45.000 --> 1:03:47.959
<v Speaker 1>to you, to going to going home to a place

1:03:47.960 --> 1:03:51.600
<v Speaker 1>where people think that you are a traitor, that you're

1:03:51.600 --> 1:03:55.160
<v Speaker 1>a monster, being labeled as a Nazi who you know,

1:03:55.200 --> 1:03:57.800
<v Speaker 1>committed crimes against humanity, whether you were convicted of that

1:03:57.960 --> 1:04:00.160
<v Speaker 1>or not. I mean, I think there's a lot of things.

1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:02.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I guess it's possible. I guess this This

1:04:02.960 --> 1:04:06.320
<v Speaker 1>would be for the he committed suicide argument, that not

1:04:06.400 --> 1:04:08.880
<v Speaker 1>only is there the he lost the will to live,

1:04:09.040 --> 1:04:12.000
<v Speaker 1>it's also it does coincide with the fact that he

1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:15.280
<v Speaker 1>might have the possibility of getting out, and that could

1:04:15.320 --> 1:04:17.120
<v Speaker 1>be a really, really scary thing to him. He could

1:04:17.160 --> 1:04:21.960
<v Speaker 1>have just decided no, I want don't want to Yeah,

1:04:22.240 --> 1:04:24.080
<v Speaker 1>And there's no way to keep yourself right. You can't

1:04:24.080 --> 1:04:26.439
<v Speaker 1>just be like, I'm just gonna stay in jail, thanks though,

1:04:26.760 --> 1:04:28.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to hold on to the bars and you

1:04:29.000 --> 1:04:31.160
<v Speaker 1>can't drag me out. Yeah, you can't say that, because

1:04:31.200 --> 1:04:33.280
<v Speaker 1>that works so well for not going here, So that

1:04:33.320 --> 1:04:35.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I guess that could have been a It

1:04:35.600 --> 1:04:38.120
<v Speaker 1>is possible. I mean, people do lose the will to live,

1:04:38.320 --> 1:04:40.959
<v Speaker 1>you know, and especially he was pretty feeble by this time.

1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:44.080
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he just decided to just uh and he had

1:04:44.120 --> 1:04:47.480
<v Speaker 1>committed an attempted suicide in the past when he was younger. Yeah,

1:04:47.560 --> 1:04:50.800
<v Speaker 1>and so and uh so, maybe he just felt like,

1:04:50.880 --> 1:04:52.400
<v Speaker 1>even if I get out, now, what kind of a

1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:53.880
<v Speaker 1>life am I going to have? I can't I can

1:04:53.920 --> 1:04:56.880
<v Speaker 1>barely even walk, you know, because he was very, very

1:04:56.960 --> 1:05:00.680
<v Speaker 1>frail at that point. You would be right, yeah, yeah, again,

1:05:00.720 --> 1:05:03.120
<v Speaker 1>I think there is something to be said for saying

1:05:04.040 --> 1:05:06.760
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't know what he's coming to. You know, he

1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:10.680
<v Speaker 1>probably thinks he's labeled as a traitor. He's gonna have

1:05:10.800 --> 1:05:14.400
<v Speaker 1>a villains welcome. He never nobody's gonna love him, He's

1:05:14.400 --> 1:05:17.080
<v Speaker 1>going to be hated. I mean, I mean, I agree,

1:05:17.160 --> 1:05:19.600
<v Speaker 1>probably that wouldn't be the reception. Probably somebody would say, oh,

1:05:19.640 --> 1:05:21.640
<v Speaker 1>look an old man, right. They wouldn't say, oh, that's

1:05:22.080 --> 1:05:25.920
<v Speaker 1>he's the one who because they're also really wasn't very

1:05:26.000 --> 1:05:28.280
<v Speaker 1>much loved for the Nazi Party at that point in Germany.

1:05:28.720 --> 1:05:31.320
<v Speaker 1>But I don't know. I guess, well, there are a

1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:34.960
<v Speaker 1>lot of you can understand that fear, Well, yeah, there's that.

1:05:35.040 --> 1:05:38.400
<v Speaker 1>I think I think that the positives outweighed the negatives.

1:05:38.680 --> 1:05:41.280
<v Speaker 1>It's also possible maybe he's maybe he didn't know because

1:05:42.240 --> 1:05:45.080
<v Speaker 1>the family wasn't necessarily allowed to talk about just anything

1:05:45.080 --> 1:05:47.280
<v Speaker 1>with him. Yeah, that's true. Again, there was there were

1:05:47.280 --> 1:05:51.600
<v Speaker 1>definitely restrictions. Well back to the murder theory though, wolf

1:05:51.640 --> 1:05:55.640
<v Speaker 1>Hess mentioned before his son who was just going to

1:05:55.760 --> 1:05:58.520
<v Speaker 1>name her a child for Yeah, he laid out some

1:05:58.560 --> 1:06:01.600
<v Speaker 1>reasons for suspicion. Number one, he did say his last

1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:03.600
<v Speaker 1>visit with his father that Hess was so weak and

1:06:03.680 --> 1:06:05.880
<v Speaker 1>frail they couldn't walk without a cane on one side

1:06:05.880 --> 1:06:09.000
<v Speaker 1>and a guard on the other side supporting him. So

1:06:09.080 --> 1:06:12.680
<v Speaker 1>how could he have managed to actually hang himself? I mean,

1:06:12.760 --> 1:06:16.240
<v Speaker 1>I guess it's not. It's you step off a thing. Yeah.

1:06:16.400 --> 1:06:19.200
<v Speaker 1>That sounds morbid and horrible, I know, but I've had

1:06:19.200 --> 1:06:23.560
<v Speaker 1>the very I thought about the same thing. Is that there,

1:06:23.600 --> 1:06:26.280
<v Speaker 1>and you've tossed the cord until he gets up there

1:06:26.280 --> 1:06:28.640
<v Speaker 1>and you're tying on and you just pull it down

1:06:28.760 --> 1:06:30.640
<v Speaker 1>and then you tie a thing and you I mean,

1:06:30.680 --> 1:06:35.320
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's completely possible to do with very little effort. Yeah.

1:06:35.600 --> 1:06:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, it's as if he climbed a ten foot

1:06:38.080 --> 1:06:40.720
<v Speaker 1>spire and then leapt off of it. Yeah, now I

1:06:40.760 --> 1:06:44.320
<v Speaker 1>think it's it's probably it is possible. That's just what

1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:47.360
<v Speaker 1>he says. He that's why he thinks he didn't commit suicide.

1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:50.240
<v Speaker 1>But the family also got the body after this, and

1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:53.680
<v Speaker 1>they had a second autopsy done, and there the reports

1:06:53.680 --> 1:06:56.360
<v Speaker 1>from this one noted ligature marks around the neck that

1:06:56.400 --> 1:07:00.960
<v Speaker 1>were horizontal across the neck, which is like more consistent

1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:04.720
<v Speaker 1>with being drawled by somebody than hanging, because obviously they're

1:07:04.720 --> 1:07:07.280
<v Speaker 1>going to go like across and then up past your

1:07:07.360 --> 1:07:10.000
<v Speaker 1>jaw and your ears and all that stuff. And yeah,

1:07:10.080 --> 1:07:12.200
<v Speaker 1>so it looks like somebody might have actually choked him

1:07:12.240 --> 1:07:16.280
<v Speaker 1>to death. Yeah. Uh. And there were supposedly two strangers

1:07:16.280 --> 1:07:18.640
<v Speaker 1>in American uniforms that were pressed at the side of

1:07:18.720 --> 1:07:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Hess's hanging. Uh. There was a teenage medical orderly named Abdullah.

1:07:22.920 --> 1:07:24.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't not sure how to pronounce this last name.

1:07:25.560 --> 1:07:27.440
<v Speaker 1>We'll go with that, Yeah, okay, Abdulla will just call

1:07:27.520 --> 1:07:30.120
<v Speaker 1>him Abdullah. Uh. He worked a spand out for he'd

1:07:30.160 --> 1:07:31.920
<v Speaker 1>been working there for I don't know seven or eight years.

1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:35.280
<v Speaker 1>Looking after Hess. Abdullah wrote in an affidavit at that quote.

1:07:35.360 --> 1:07:38.200
<v Speaker 1>When I arrived at the Garden summer House, I found

1:07:38.200 --> 1:07:40.320
<v Speaker 1>a scene looking as though a wrestling match had taken

1:07:40.360 --> 1:07:43.400
<v Speaker 1>place ellipse, he lips the ground was churned up, and

1:07:43.440 --> 1:07:45.680
<v Speaker 1>the chair in which has usually sat on the ground

1:07:45.960 --> 1:07:48.200
<v Speaker 1>or sat lay on the ground a considerable distance from

1:07:48.200 --> 1:07:51.320
<v Speaker 1>its usual location unquote. And then you note that those

1:07:51.360 --> 1:07:54.240
<v Speaker 1>two strangers, and he said that was unusual because contact

1:07:54.720 --> 1:07:57.680
<v Speaker 1>with Hess was strictly forbidden. If you're one of the guards,

1:07:57.720 --> 1:08:00.040
<v Speaker 1>that's one thing, but unless you have a reason to

1:08:00.160 --> 1:08:03.880
<v Speaker 1>be in contact with Hess a big note. So it

1:08:04.000 --> 1:08:06.720
<v Speaker 1>was strange that those two were there. Oh wait, go ahead,

1:08:06.800 --> 1:08:10.840
<v Speaker 1>keep going. At this time August seven, the US guards

1:08:10.840 --> 1:08:13.520
<v Speaker 1>were in charge of in the prison. Again, it varied

1:08:13.520 --> 1:08:16.760
<v Speaker 1>from French, US, British, Russian. I guess that's the theory

1:08:16.760 --> 1:08:19.600
<v Speaker 1>of vols because wolf Hess believes that it was the

1:08:19.640 --> 1:08:23.040
<v Speaker 1>British Secret Service that murdered his dad. And I guess

1:08:23.040 --> 1:08:25.280
<v Speaker 1>his theory is that it wouldn't stink quite so bad.

1:08:25.320 --> 1:08:27.439
<v Speaker 1>It hasn't died while the Americans were in charge of

1:08:27.439 --> 1:08:30.519
<v Speaker 1>guarding him. Whether that's and that so he believes that

1:08:30.880 --> 1:08:34.439
<v Speaker 1>those two strangers were actually British. Yes, why would Why would?

1:08:34.600 --> 1:08:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Why did the Brits dock him off? That's this is

1:08:38.880 --> 1:08:41.120
<v Speaker 1>the thing that This is my biggest problem with I

1:08:41.120 --> 1:08:44.240
<v Speaker 1>don't understand why they would do it, particularly because weren't

1:08:44.280 --> 1:08:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the Brits one of the ones that said no, let

1:08:45.880 --> 1:08:48.799
<v Speaker 1>him go? Yeah, it was only the Soviets who wouldn't

1:08:49.040 --> 1:08:51.600
<v Speaker 1>who would not agree to although I guess on the

1:08:51.640 --> 1:08:53.720
<v Speaker 1>other hand, the Brits may have been saying, yeah, let

1:08:53.760 --> 1:08:55.680
<v Speaker 1>him go, so we can murder him and as at home,

1:08:57.080 --> 1:08:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, y yeah, well, it was a

1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:02.120
<v Speaker 1>bet for them they could easily play the play the

1:09:02.120 --> 1:09:04.080
<v Speaker 1>good cop and say you have knowing that the Soviets

1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:06.519
<v Speaker 1>are always going to be but there's no harm in saying, hey, yeah,

1:09:06.520 --> 1:09:09.559
<v Speaker 1>we're open at that. Yeah. Yeah, they might have changed

1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:12.360
<v Speaker 1>if the Sylviets and and and so, since we did

1:09:12.400 --> 1:09:16.160
<v Speaker 1>have that change in in the sort of Soviet posture, Well,

1:09:16.160 --> 1:09:19.200
<v Speaker 1>what's the policy. Here's a question, what's the policy of

1:09:19.280 --> 1:09:22.160
<v Speaker 1>torture for prisoners of war at that time in the

1:09:22.200 --> 1:09:25.360
<v Speaker 1>win World War two? Torture? Yeah, I believe it was

1:09:25.400 --> 1:09:31.320
<v Speaker 1>not sanction Yeah, there's so so I guess the that

1:09:31.360 --> 1:09:34.000
<v Speaker 1>could be not to jump ahead or anything, but that

1:09:34.040 --> 1:09:35.680
<v Speaker 1>could be a reason that the Brits would want to

1:09:35.760 --> 1:09:38.559
<v Speaker 1>murder hess Is if they thought, if they were scared

1:09:38.600 --> 1:09:41.639
<v Speaker 1>that he might come out with his story of what

1:09:41.720 --> 1:09:46.440
<v Speaker 1>they did to him for four years he was waterboarded

1:09:46.960 --> 1:09:51.360
<v Speaker 1>or something something, you know, and tortured brutally. That might be,

1:09:51.640 --> 1:09:53.800
<v Speaker 1>and they were trying to keep in quiet. But I

1:09:54.080 --> 1:09:57.120
<v Speaker 1>but you know, on the flip side, at probably if

1:09:57.120 --> 1:10:00.720
<v Speaker 1>he was going to say something, he would have said something, right,

1:10:01.479 --> 1:10:03.040
<v Speaker 1>I think that, yeah, that they wanted to keep money

1:10:03.080 --> 1:10:05.920
<v Speaker 1>at their control. So but the question is is what

1:10:06.000 --> 1:10:07.880
<v Speaker 1>was it that you know, what was the big secret

1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:10.280
<v Speaker 1>he was sitting on? So he couldn't talk about the

1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:13.519
<v Speaker 1>war or the peace mission that he went on. Everything

1:10:13.600 --> 1:10:17.519
<v Speaker 1>was carefully supervised. The theory is that one theory is

1:10:17.520 --> 1:10:20.280
<v Speaker 1>that Winston Churchill kept the war going with Germany when

1:10:20.280 --> 1:10:21.960
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't necessary and a lot of a lot of

1:10:21.960 --> 1:10:23.800
<v Speaker 1>people died, and so that was that would have been

1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:26.519
<v Speaker 1>like a huge scandal. That's one of that's one of

1:10:26.520 --> 1:10:28.720
<v Speaker 1>the things that both has things that I think there

1:10:28.800 --> 1:10:32.719
<v Speaker 1>might be another reason. I mean, that's a good Yeah,

1:10:32.920 --> 1:10:35.320
<v Speaker 1>that would upset a lot of people. You would want

1:10:35.360 --> 1:10:37.519
<v Speaker 1>to keep although it's kind of ancient history by this

1:10:37.560 --> 1:10:43.160
<v Speaker 1>point in time, right, because when did Churchill time? Oh god,

1:10:43.240 --> 1:10:48.720
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't eighties, I think, so you would have been

1:10:48.720 --> 1:10:50.640
<v Speaker 1>dead by then, so it wouldn't have really, although you

1:10:50.640 --> 1:10:54.120
<v Speaker 1>don't want to sully the memory of No, I've actually

1:10:54.320 --> 1:10:57.000
<v Speaker 1>just started a search for a good Churchill book because

1:10:57.000 --> 1:10:58.719
<v Speaker 1>I want to read up anymore, because I don't think

1:10:59.040 --> 1:11:02.160
<v Speaker 1>he was really weird. Interestingly, I was intriguing, he was.

1:11:02.520 --> 1:11:05.000
<v Speaker 1>He was amazing. Actually, I mean he was a quirky

1:11:05.080 --> 1:11:08.800
<v Speaker 1>little guy, but there was some serious brain power going. Yeah, well,

1:11:09.160 --> 1:11:10.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess that. You know, if if there was a

1:11:10.920 --> 1:11:14.040
<v Speaker 1>revelation like that, there would be some serious precedent for

1:11:14.200 --> 1:11:19.680
<v Speaker 1>reparations right to families, it would at least make the

1:11:19.720 --> 1:11:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Brits look not super great. Well, yes, and no, I mean,

1:11:23.160 --> 1:11:25.760
<v Speaker 1>because here's the here's the deal. Is that, like it

1:11:25.760 --> 1:11:28.880
<v Speaker 1>would have saved some British lives. But at the same time,

1:11:29.800 --> 1:11:31.960
<v Speaker 1>is it really a great idea to allow the Nazis

1:11:32.000 --> 1:11:34.320
<v Speaker 1>to consolidate power on the continent? Right? No, exactly, I

1:11:34.320 --> 1:11:36.120
<v Speaker 1>mean exactly. I mean he might have peace. Now, that

1:11:36.120 --> 1:11:37.599
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean they're not going to come after you later.

1:11:37.640 --> 1:11:39.719
<v Speaker 1>But as I was saying, it gives it just gives

1:11:39.760 --> 1:11:43.200
<v Speaker 1>that tacit consent everything that they're doing. You take a break,

1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:45.559
<v Speaker 1>you recover, and then you go after it some more.

1:11:45.640 --> 1:11:49.519
<v Speaker 1>But here's here's my thing. Here's my issue with the

1:11:49.640 --> 1:11:53.680
<v Speaker 1>scene of his suicide. Let's stop. I know, I want

1:11:53.680 --> 1:11:57.000
<v Speaker 1>to circle back for a second. So he uh. The

1:11:57.040 --> 1:12:00.680
<v Speaker 1>description of the scene is that it looked like a

1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:04.240
<v Speaker 1>wrestling match. It happened. The ground is turned up and

1:12:04.280 --> 1:12:07.000
<v Speaker 1>the chair is knocked over and far away. Well, there's

1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:09.439
<v Speaker 1>a couple of things that can that can explain this.

1:12:10.240 --> 1:12:12.960
<v Speaker 1>It could have been that somebody ran in seeing him

1:12:13.000 --> 1:12:15.479
<v Speaker 1>hanging there and flung the furniture out of the way

1:12:15.479 --> 1:12:18.960
<v Speaker 1>to try to get to him, to keep him from hanging,

1:12:19.000 --> 1:12:23.439
<v Speaker 1>from dying. It's also entirely possible. I don't I've never

1:12:23.479 --> 1:12:25.920
<v Speaker 1>seen an image of this room, and we never will

1:12:25.960 --> 1:12:28.960
<v Speaker 1>because the place has been destroyed. That this hook and

1:12:29.040 --> 1:12:33.960
<v Speaker 1>where he was at, he may not have been truly hanging.

1:12:34.120 --> 1:12:37.360
<v Speaker 1>There are examples of people, I don't think. So it

1:12:37.439 --> 1:12:40.880
<v Speaker 1>could have been that he was, you know, just a

1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:43.600
<v Speaker 1>little bit at an incline, and so when he was

1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:47.719
<v Speaker 1>in the death throws, his feet are going there, churning

1:12:47.800 --> 1:12:51.519
<v Speaker 1>up the dirt around him. He was flopping around. That's

1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:56.000
<v Speaker 1>going to give that false impression of a struggle between

1:12:56.120 --> 1:13:01.559
<v Speaker 1>multiple people when really it's his body in the death sposums. Yeah. Well,

1:13:01.560 --> 1:13:04.800
<v Speaker 1>and here's the other thing too, is that these were

1:13:04.840 --> 1:13:07.160
<v Speaker 1>two actual to British says guys. It would be in

1:13:07.200 --> 1:13:10.439
<v Speaker 1>really fit shape. And two guys guys one very frail

1:13:10.520 --> 1:13:12.120
<v Speaker 1>nine year old man. There's not going to be a

1:13:12.200 --> 1:13:16.000
<v Speaker 1>huge death struggle. Yeah. Well, yeah, he probably didn't have

1:13:16.160 --> 1:13:19.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, is nazi jiu jitsu skills anymore? And I mean,

1:13:20.000 --> 1:13:22.160
<v Speaker 1>frankly could have been as simple as he missed a

1:13:22.200 --> 1:13:25.080
<v Speaker 1>couple of times with the power chord. Right, you know,

1:13:25.120 --> 1:13:27.160
<v Speaker 1>you've got the heavier end on the power cord. You

1:13:27.240 --> 1:13:29.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of toss it up and it falls, and then

1:13:29.640 --> 1:13:31.240
<v Speaker 1>you drag it back and you toss it up and

1:13:31.320 --> 1:13:35.640
<v Speaker 1>it falls and walking back stumbling, you know. Yeah, I

1:13:35.640 --> 1:13:40.000
<v Speaker 1>mean there's a million ways. That's why I look at this.

1:13:40.000 --> 1:13:44.160
<v Speaker 1>This doesn't doesn't sound affaious to me at all. Very

1:13:44.800 --> 1:13:47.680
<v Speaker 1>very few things sound affaious to use to its true Well,

1:13:47.800 --> 1:13:51.400
<v Speaker 1>just love, I am captain rational. Okay, Well, there are

1:13:51.400 --> 1:13:54.639
<v Speaker 1>some other interesting little tidbits though. Here, um Lieutenant Colonel

1:13:54.680 --> 1:13:57.439
<v Speaker 1>Eugene Bird he was common dott. It's banned out prison

1:13:57.479 --> 1:14:00.200
<v Speaker 1>from the nineteen six four seventy one. Okay, So like

1:14:00.320 --> 1:14:04.080
<v Speaker 1>what's that command You know, he's like the warden. Ok. Yeah, yeah,

1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:06.800
<v Speaker 1>that's what I was looking for. Yeah. I guess maybe

1:14:06.800 --> 1:14:08.560
<v Speaker 1>they thought they saw it as more like and I

1:14:08.560 --> 1:14:10.320
<v Speaker 1>guess you have a warden in a prison, but in

1:14:10.160 --> 1:14:14.639
<v Speaker 1>a pow camp there's always a commandant military installations. Yeah, yeah,

1:14:14.840 --> 1:14:17.280
<v Speaker 1>I guess so. But he got to know No Rudolph

1:14:17.280 --> 1:14:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Hess very well. I actually they actually became friends and

1:14:20.120 --> 1:14:22.360
<v Speaker 1>they started working on a collaboration on a book about

1:14:22.439 --> 1:14:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Hess and his peace flight. And I thought he wasn't

1:14:24.320 --> 1:14:27.120
<v Speaker 1>allowed to talk about that. Well, apparently there's some exception,

1:14:27.280 --> 1:14:30.320
<v Speaker 1>and maybe it was kind of surreptitious, I think. Yeah.

1:14:30.560 --> 1:14:33.120
<v Speaker 1>But when Bird superiors got wind of this in March

1:14:33.240 --> 1:14:37.000
<v Speaker 1>ninety one, Bird was placed under house arrest and he

1:14:37.160 --> 1:14:40.439
<v Speaker 1>was interrogated and extensively. He wrote about it later. He

1:14:40.560 --> 1:14:44.280
<v Speaker 1>was eventually forced to resign. And you gotta wonder, what's

1:14:44.320 --> 1:14:47.160
<v Speaker 1>the big secret here? What's the big deal? I mean,

1:14:47.200 --> 1:14:48.760
<v Speaker 1>I would think that would be a positive thing if

1:14:48.800 --> 1:14:51.599
<v Speaker 1>Hess wants to tell his story. What's wrong with that? Um?

1:14:51.960 --> 1:14:54.320
<v Speaker 1>And Bird eventually did publish a book called The Loneliest

1:14:54.360 --> 1:14:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Man in the World about Hess. When did the in

1:14:57.720 --> 1:15:00.200
<v Speaker 1>the U S? When did the ruling come down that

1:15:00.960 --> 1:15:06.519
<v Speaker 1>prisoners couldn't make money from anything related to their acts.

1:15:06.600 --> 1:15:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I don't.

1:15:08.280 --> 1:15:09.800
<v Speaker 1>I know that was a ruling that came down. I

1:15:09.840 --> 1:15:12.120
<v Speaker 1>think it was a law that was passed right right.

1:15:12.640 --> 1:15:15.560
<v Speaker 1>The point though, is that I just wonder if it

1:15:15.760 --> 1:15:19.479
<v Speaker 1>was kind of that had set a general precedent among

1:15:19.640 --> 1:15:23.600
<v Speaker 1>the worldwide audience of oh wait, you're a Nazi. You

1:15:23.720 --> 1:15:27.240
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be able to commemorate yourself in this way. Do

1:15:27.280 --> 1:15:29.080
<v Speaker 1>you know what I'm saying? You talking about him writing

1:15:29.120 --> 1:15:32.400
<v Speaker 1>a book? Yeah, well, you know, potentially making some cash

1:15:32.520 --> 1:15:35.360
<v Speaker 1>off of it. I don't think the plan was so that.

1:15:35.439 --> 1:15:37.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if they were really going to make

1:15:37.120 --> 1:15:39.880
<v Speaker 1>any cash out of the deal. But people, what was

1:15:40.240 --> 1:15:43.679
<v Speaker 1>nobody writes a book to write a book? Well, that's true,

1:15:43.760 --> 1:15:45.640
<v Speaker 1>but what was what was hes going to spend the

1:15:45.680 --> 1:15:48.280
<v Speaker 1>money on? Anyway he was in prison, he would he

1:15:48.360 --> 1:15:52.320
<v Speaker 1>could have bequeathed it to his relatives. He could have

1:15:52.680 --> 1:15:55.679
<v Speaker 1>in a way made some money to benefit people he knew.

1:15:55.880 --> 1:15:59.559
<v Speaker 1>But I'm just wondering if that's the reason that they

1:15:59.600 --> 1:16:01.960
<v Speaker 1>put those squash on it. There were other high ranking

1:16:02.080 --> 1:16:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Nazis who wrote memoirs after their release from prison. Right

1:16:06.280 --> 1:16:09.960
<v Speaker 1>probably made money off after their release from prison. I

1:16:10.160 --> 1:16:12.519
<v Speaker 1>just I just think that it would have I mean,

1:16:12.760 --> 1:16:16.280
<v Speaker 1>they would have said that, right, if they had arrested Bird,

1:16:16.680 --> 1:16:18.800
<v Speaker 1>they would have come out publicly and they would have said, listen,

1:16:19.560 --> 1:16:21.759
<v Speaker 1>there's this law that we have that he was breaking.

1:16:22.760 --> 1:16:28.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that there was that's in the US. Okay, well,

1:16:28.240 --> 1:16:31.240
<v Speaker 1>but you know that you would say, listen, this guy

1:16:31.360 --> 1:16:34.400
<v Speaker 1>was helping this war criminal write a book and we

1:16:34.479 --> 1:16:36.680
<v Speaker 1>don't think that's right. That's why I arrested him. You

1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:39.760
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't say, but don't worry about it. No nothing to

1:16:39.840 --> 1:16:42.799
<v Speaker 1>see here, people, that's fine, and keep it under wraps.

1:16:43.640 --> 1:16:46.599
<v Speaker 1>It's almost as if you've never watched a governmental body

1:16:47.160 --> 1:16:50.560
<v Speaker 1>do that kind of weirdness before. Devon. They do that

1:16:50.680 --> 1:16:53.200
<v Speaker 1>all the time. I live in America. We do not

1:16:53.479 --> 1:16:57.160
<v Speaker 1>do that, except for all the time. This is America

1:16:58.040 --> 1:17:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Freedom Forward. We're talking about Bird. Bird actually did say

1:17:07.280 --> 1:17:12.719
<v Speaker 1>that he thought, no, not in the Eagle. I'm sorry,

1:17:12.800 --> 1:17:15.120
<v Speaker 1>we're going away off fact here. Okay, oh yeah, we

1:17:15.200 --> 1:17:18.680
<v Speaker 1>are back to Bird. Though he did publicly say that

1:17:18.760 --> 1:17:21.240
<v Speaker 1>he thought that might have been murdered. Again, of course

1:17:21.280 --> 1:17:24.280
<v Speaker 1>he did. Yeah, I mean, the two other men were

1:17:24.400 --> 1:17:28.240
<v Speaker 1>serving life sentences in Spandau were released early in the

1:17:28.320 --> 1:17:30.519
<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifties, believe or not because they were old and six,

1:17:30.640 --> 1:17:33.720
<v Speaker 1>so for humanitarian reasons. By the mid eighties, Rudolfs was

1:17:33.760 --> 1:17:36.320
<v Speaker 1>also pretty old and sick. So why wasn't he let

1:17:36.439 --> 1:17:38.800
<v Speaker 1>go again? It seems to me the reason was to

1:17:38.920 --> 1:17:42.280
<v Speaker 1>keep him quiet about something. I can't see any other reason.

1:17:42.320 --> 1:17:44.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, all kinds of people were saying that he

1:17:44.360 --> 1:17:48.240
<v Speaker 1>should be let go. He probably had things about British

1:17:48.280 --> 1:17:52.679
<v Speaker 1>cuisine maybe, yeah, maybe that it's probably what it was. Yeah,

1:17:53.000 --> 1:17:56.080
<v Speaker 1>he said he was awful. Yeah, yeah, you can't get

1:17:56.080 --> 1:17:59.680
<v Speaker 1>away with that baked beans for breakfast. What he must Yeah,

1:17:59.680 --> 1:18:02.200
<v Speaker 1>he must pronounced which mitchett, And that's probably what it is.

1:18:02.520 --> 1:18:04.519
<v Speaker 1>So I've already said that I don't think the scandal

1:18:04.680 --> 1:18:07.400
<v Speaker 1>was Winston Churchill refusing to make peace, but there might

1:18:07.400 --> 1:18:10.960
<v Speaker 1>have been another reason. Yeah. Well, it has been said

1:18:11.000 --> 1:18:13.080
<v Speaker 1>there were members of the royal family who were sympathetic

1:18:13.160 --> 1:18:16.639
<v Speaker 1>to Germany, and it could it be that there actually

1:18:16.680 --> 1:18:19.760
<v Speaker 1>were discussions between the aristocracy and the Germans that the

1:18:20.400 --> 1:18:23.599
<v Speaker 1>that the British Secret Service hadn't been aware of until

1:18:23.760 --> 1:18:27.080
<v Speaker 1>after the fact perhaps or maybe even at the time

1:18:27.120 --> 1:18:30.719
<v Speaker 1>and Hass was it at Hess was knowledgeable about these things,

1:18:31.280 --> 1:18:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and depending on what was said and who said it, um,

1:18:34.560 --> 1:18:37.120
<v Speaker 1>that might be a secret worth keeping. I can't think

1:18:37.160 --> 1:18:39.080
<v Speaker 1>of any other reason to keep this guy locked up

1:18:39.120 --> 1:18:42.280
<v Speaker 1>for all these years. But then that's a reason to

1:18:42.320 --> 1:18:44.160
<v Speaker 1>kill him if he was about to get let out.

1:18:45.360 --> 1:18:51.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I really I understand the fear of

1:18:51.520 --> 1:18:57.639
<v Speaker 1>scandal and embarrassment, but I I also just wonder how

1:18:57.800 --> 1:19:01.839
<v Speaker 1>much credence people are gonna give to a convicted Nazi

1:19:02.000 --> 1:19:06.840
<v Speaker 1>war criminal for most of his life in jail, and

1:19:06.960 --> 1:19:09.240
<v Speaker 1>he was not a convicted war criminal, yeah he was. No,

1:19:09.439 --> 1:19:11.519
<v Speaker 1>he was convicted of crimes against peace, but he was

1:19:11.640 --> 1:19:15.560
<v Speaker 1>he was. He was not convicted of war crimes or

1:19:15.560 --> 1:19:19.080
<v Speaker 1>crimes against humanity. But in everybody's mind, he's a war criminal.

1:19:19.320 --> 1:19:25.599
<v Speaker 1>He spent forty some years, he's a freaking wars personal

1:19:25.720 --> 1:19:30.519
<v Speaker 1>friend populations mind. Yeah, so he is so easy to discredit.

1:19:30.760 --> 1:19:33.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's it doesn't make sense. I also, I

1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:37.280
<v Speaker 1>also guess I don't know what the why you would

1:19:37.800 --> 1:19:42.080
<v Speaker 1>murder him instead of just saying, hey, Russians, y'all just

1:19:42.280 --> 1:19:45.439
<v Speaker 1>keep saying no and we'll get, we'll get, we owe

1:19:45.479 --> 1:19:49.040
<v Speaker 1>you two big favors, right, I mean, why would you

1:19:49.120 --> 1:19:53.719
<v Speaker 1>not just yeah? But again, I'm still I still honestly wonder.

1:19:53.840 --> 1:19:55.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying I'm sure he was murdered, but I

1:19:55.680 --> 1:19:59.439
<v Speaker 1>still honestly wondered what it was that they didn't want

1:19:59.640 --> 1:20:02.200
<v Speaker 1>sta think about, what it was that he knew that

1:20:02.320 --> 1:20:05.080
<v Speaker 1>they didn't want the world worn out about. Based on

1:20:05.200 --> 1:20:08.519
<v Speaker 1>what Devin said, is that British used the term y'all. Yeah,

1:20:08.600 --> 1:20:10.200
<v Speaker 1>it could have been that. I don't know, but but

1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:14.360
<v Speaker 1>it seems strange because you know, in the act bath

1:20:14.360 --> 1:20:18.559
<v Speaker 1>of World War Two, there's historians out there, there's journalists,

1:20:18.560 --> 1:20:21.120
<v Speaker 1>there's all kinds of people who want to know. They

1:20:21.160 --> 1:20:23.040
<v Speaker 1>want to sort out the story of what happened. They

1:20:23.040 --> 1:20:24.840
<v Speaker 1>want to talk to as many people as they can

1:20:24.960 --> 1:20:27.680
<v Speaker 1>to find out the entire history or World War two.

1:20:28.280 --> 1:20:30.840
<v Speaker 1>And this guy had some interesting stuff to tell us all.

1:20:31.560 --> 1:20:34.720
<v Speaker 1>And but he was he was gagged. He couldn't say

1:20:34.760 --> 1:20:38.120
<v Speaker 1>a word, you know. So this is just just kind

1:20:38.160 --> 1:20:40.400
<v Speaker 1>of dawned on me, and I wonder if maybe this

1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:44.519
<v Speaker 1>is the reason, if indeed he was killed, what happened

1:20:44.560 --> 1:20:47.000
<v Speaker 1>to Spandau after he died, They tore it down. They

1:20:47.080 --> 1:20:49.519
<v Speaker 1>tore it down. Why well, some people think that they

1:20:49.600 --> 1:20:52.479
<v Speaker 1>tore it down just to conceal the evidence of the crime,

1:20:52.520 --> 1:20:54.519
<v Speaker 1>which I don't believe. But now they tore it down

1:20:54.560 --> 1:20:56.559
<v Speaker 1>because they didn't want it to become a neo Nazi

1:20:56.640 --> 1:21:00.160
<v Speaker 1>shrine exactly. So that is one of the things things

1:21:00.200 --> 1:21:02.840
<v Speaker 1>that I said. I'm like, wait a minute, because that

1:21:03.160 --> 1:21:07.240
<v Speaker 1>that movement had been gaining traction for a while at

1:21:07.320 --> 1:21:09.040
<v Speaker 1>that point. I mean, you know, it was on the

1:21:09.240 --> 1:21:12.759
<v Speaker 1>rise again, and it could have been that he would

1:21:12.760 --> 1:21:17.400
<v Speaker 1>have been hailed as some kind of martyr or messiah

1:21:17.640 --> 1:21:21.280
<v Speaker 1>or saint or whatever. So that could have been a

1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:25.800
<v Speaker 1>serious fear. Well, so but why this, Why do you

1:21:25.880 --> 1:21:28.400
<v Speaker 1>need to keep him gagged? If he comes out and

1:21:28.680 --> 1:21:31.719
<v Speaker 1>anything he says, these people are going to get ahold

1:21:31.800 --> 1:21:36.800
<v Speaker 1>of and latch onto and take as a motivation. I

1:21:36.840 --> 1:21:39.640
<v Speaker 1>could see that as a as a giant fear for

1:21:39.960 --> 1:21:42.720
<v Speaker 1>the Germans alone, because the German government at in the

1:21:42.880 --> 1:21:47.320
<v Speaker 1>eighties was really combating this, this neo Nazi movement that

1:21:47.479 --> 1:21:49.639
<v Speaker 1>was happening, So you see where they would be concerned

1:21:49.640 --> 1:21:51.519
<v Speaker 1>about it. I mean, it's just it's it popped in

1:21:51.640 --> 1:21:57.639
<v Speaker 1>my head, right or wrong. I could suddenly. But they didn't. Again,

1:21:57.720 --> 1:22:01.320
<v Speaker 1>they didn't try to stop any other former high ranking

1:22:01.400 --> 1:22:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Nazis like again Albert Spirit, et cetera, from publishing their memoirs.

1:22:05.320 --> 1:22:08.120
<v Speaker 1>I almost wonder if that would be a good argument

1:22:08.160 --> 1:22:11.799
<v Speaker 1>for suicide though if Hess was really not he didn't

1:22:11.920 --> 1:22:16.240
<v Speaker 1>have that really warlike nature in him. He didn't have

1:22:16.400 --> 1:22:19.720
<v Speaker 1>that hate was to the party, not to the things

1:22:19.800 --> 1:22:22.280
<v Speaker 1>the party did well, or to the you know kind

1:22:22.360 --> 1:22:25.200
<v Speaker 1>of we're going to make this world great part of

1:22:25.280 --> 1:22:27.840
<v Speaker 1>the party, not the like, and also kill a bunch

1:22:27.880 --> 1:22:32.040
<v Speaker 1>of people, and you know, and that maybe he did.

1:22:32.200 --> 1:22:34.120
<v Speaker 1>You know, maybe somebody did say, oh, yeah, there's this

1:22:34.720 --> 1:22:37.760
<v Speaker 1>neo Nazi resurrection and it's going to be great when

1:22:37.800 --> 1:22:39.679
<v Speaker 1>you get out. You know, this is going to happen.

1:22:39.920 --> 1:22:42.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he thought, oh my god, this is what I

1:22:42.800 --> 1:22:46.439
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he had a realization, maybe have that was not

1:22:46.680 --> 1:22:48.880
<v Speaker 1>what he wanted it to. Well, it didn't have to

1:22:48.960 --> 1:22:50.840
<v Speaker 1>be that way, though, I mean he could have if

1:22:50.880 --> 1:22:53.599
<v Speaker 1>they said, hey, address our next rally, dude, he could

1:22:53.640 --> 1:22:55.519
<v Speaker 1>have just said, screw you. I don't support you people

1:22:55.520 --> 1:22:57.560
<v Speaker 1>at all. Look look how things turned out. But I

1:22:57.600 --> 1:23:00.640
<v Speaker 1>don't know that that, you know, and I'm sure the

1:23:00.720 --> 1:23:02.600
<v Speaker 1>terms of his release, he would have been required to

1:23:02.760 --> 1:23:05.960
<v Speaker 1>not do neo Nazi activities. Sure, I know, but I

1:23:06.040 --> 1:23:09.240
<v Speaker 1>think that, you know, I think there's there's that chance

1:23:09.320 --> 1:23:12.760
<v Speaker 1>of having that reflective moment of somebody saying, it's so great,

1:23:12.800 --> 1:23:15.120
<v Speaker 1>you're going to get out and all these people are

1:23:15.160 --> 1:23:17.360
<v Speaker 1>here to support you and this is what they believe,

1:23:17.479 --> 1:23:19.880
<v Speaker 1>and for you to have that moment of realization of

1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:22.880
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, this is my legacy. Well yeah, but

1:23:22.960 --> 1:23:24.640
<v Speaker 1>it didn't have to be that way. It didn't have

1:23:24.760 --> 1:23:26.800
<v Speaker 1>to be. But they were also three years old, and

1:23:26.920 --> 1:23:28.920
<v Speaker 1>like they were probably not going to anna answer the world,

1:23:28.960 --> 1:23:31.719
<v Speaker 1>so so that he could have a big reception committee

1:23:31.720 --> 1:23:33.840
<v Speaker 1>outside the prison for him, you know, but they probably

1:23:33.840 --> 1:23:36.559
<v Speaker 1>would be quiet about it. But this is very cynical.

1:23:36.600 --> 1:23:38.720
<v Speaker 1>I have a question. How soon after he died did

1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:43.280
<v Speaker 1>they get rid of the prison. I'm not sure exactly

1:23:43.320 --> 1:23:47.000
<v Speaker 1>what it was. It was pretty soon. It wasn't as

1:23:47.040 --> 1:23:49.160
<v Speaker 1>if ten years later they finally got around to tear

1:23:49.280 --> 1:23:50.880
<v Speaker 1>the thing down. It's kind of too bad. It was

1:23:51.040 --> 1:23:52.560
<v Speaker 1>it was a cool old building. I mean, it was

1:23:52.640 --> 1:23:54.880
<v Speaker 1>like kind of castle like it was. It was, and

1:23:55.040 --> 1:23:57.080
<v Speaker 1>so it's kind of a shame. But this is going

1:23:57.120 --> 1:24:00.479
<v Speaker 1>to sound really horrible. And I almost wonder if they

1:24:00.560 --> 1:24:02.599
<v Speaker 1>just needed to tear it down. There might have been

1:24:02.600 --> 1:24:04.840
<v Speaker 1>in one of the real estate too. Well, I think

1:24:05.560 --> 1:24:08.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't disagree with that. An we just needed to

1:24:08.240 --> 1:24:10.240
<v Speaker 1>tear this thing down. And there's this guy who has

1:24:10.320 --> 1:24:13.559
<v Speaker 1>lived for way longer than we ever thought he would live,

1:24:14.080 --> 1:24:16.120
<v Speaker 1>So we just got to get rid of him. They

1:24:16.240 --> 1:24:19.920
<v Speaker 1>really spent a ton of money keeping one guy locked up. Yeah,

1:24:19.960 --> 1:24:22.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, so I almost I wonder. I know that's

1:24:22.439 --> 1:24:25.240
<v Speaker 1>really horrible. I know it sounds horrible and cynical, and

1:24:25.280 --> 1:24:27.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm really really sorry, but I almost wonder if they

1:24:28.000 --> 1:24:31.439
<v Speaker 1>just thought, this guy gotta go, we need to, you

1:24:31.520 --> 1:24:35.240
<v Speaker 1>know here. Maybe it was real estate developers. Yeah, I

1:24:35.280 --> 1:24:38.680
<v Speaker 1>mean real estate developers are the ones that killed him.

1:24:38.760 --> 1:24:43.080
<v Speaker 1>If this was Portland's I would absolutely say. Yeah. They

1:24:43.200 --> 1:24:48.040
<v Speaker 1>dressed in military uniform. Yeah, they were Remax agents. Yeah.

1:24:48.640 --> 1:24:51.920
<v Speaker 1>But I mean I guess you know, who would have

1:24:52.000 --> 1:24:53.960
<v Speaker 1>thought when you locked a dude up that he would

1:24:54.040 --> 1:24:57.240
<v Speaker 1>live for that much longer. Yeah, he was a relatively

1:24:57.320 --> 1:25:00.360
<v Speaker 1>young man, and he was just something he was. He

1:25:00.520 --> 1:25:03.519
<v Speaker 1>was young. I mean, he was only a couple of

1:25:03.600 --> 1:25:07.560
<v Speaker 1>years older than I am now. Yeah, so that is

1:25:07.640 --> 1:25:10.560
<v Speaker 1>a very young age to get locked up. Yeah, and

1:25:10.640 --> 1:25:12.759
<v Speaker 1>all of the rest of his people had been released

1:25:12.840 --> 1:25:16.759
<v Speaker 1>in the right twenty years ago, and so they probably

1:25:16.840 --> 1:25:18.560
<v Speaker 1>just assumed, all right, this guy is going to be

1:25:18.720 --> 1:25:20.560
<v Speaker 1>dead in a couple of years, it'll be fine. And

1:25:20.640 --> 1:25:26.920
<v Speaker 1>then twenty years on, oh man, we can't afford this.

1:25:27.120 --> 1:25:28.680
<v Speaker 1>Maybe that was it. We're just sick of this and

1:25:29.080 --> 1:25:31.599
<v Speaker 1>get rid of the guy. I don't know, it's crazy,

1:25:31.880 --> 1:25:36.800
<v Speaker 1>but uh was in speaking of shrines, his his body

1:25:36.880 --> 1:25:38.880
<v Speaker 1>was buried in the family cemetery and I can't remember

1:25:38.880 --> 1:25:40.960
<v Speaker 1>the name of the town in Germany and somewhere in Bavaria,

1:25:41.120 --> 1:25:44.080
<v Speaker 1>I think, uh. And it unfortunately became kind of a

1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:46.960
<v Speaker 1>shrine for for neo Nazis who would have annual gatherings

1:25:47.040 --> 1:25:50.439
<v Speaker 1>there in his grave, and so alas like government dug

1:25:50.560 --> 1:25:53.160
<v Speaker 1>up the grave and burned the body and scattered the ashes.

1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:55.600
<v Speaker 1>I guess that's just upsetting because it doesn't feel like

1:25:55.680 --> 1:26:02.240
<v Speaker 1>what he wanted, you know about. Yeah, yeah, he probably

1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:04.400
<v Speaker 1>think about the neo Nazis. It's frankly, I don't know.

1:26:04.760 --> 1:26:07.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't really know much about these guys. I suspect

1:26:07.760 --> 1:26:10.560
<v Speaker 1>that it's not even so much about politics or the

1:26:10.640 --> 1:26:13.560
<v Speaker 1>socialism or anything. I think it's just about anti semitism,

1:26:13.800 --> 1:26:16.080
<v Speaker 1>it's about racism. Yet it's about which is not what

1:26:16.240 --> 1:26:19.360
<v Speaker 1>the Nazi Party was started for. And I agree they

1:26:19.400 --> 1:26:21.519
<v Speaker 1>were they were racist, but that's not it wasn't the

1:26:21.560 --> 1:26:23.920
<v Speaker 1>whole thing with that. But there were racists later, yeah,

1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:27.560
<v Speaker 1>well yeah, there there was. It's um, it's based on

1:26:27.640 --> 1:26:31.560
<v Speaker 1>a very common sentiment of if they weren't here, I

1:26:31.800 --> 1:26:34.920
<v Speaker 1>do better. But no matter what that that people is,

1:26:35.000 --> 1:26:37.559
<v Speaker 1>there's always one group saying if you weren't here, it'd

1:26:37.600 --> 1:26:41.400
<v Speaker 1>be better for us. I mean, that's but that was

1:26:41.920 --> 1:26:45.400
<v Speaker 1>That was the very i'm going to say naive beginning

1:26:45.560 --> 1:26:47.800
<v Speaker 1>of the racism and the Nazi Party, and then it

1:26:48.080 --> 1:26:51.519
<v Speaker 1>escalated to a horrible level. And we can all agree

1:26:51.560 --> 1:26:54.360
<v Speaker 1>on but and so I agree that he probably was.

1:26:54.840 --> 1:26:57.559
<v Speaker 1>It is terrible because it wasn't like he was like, yeah,

1:26:57.600 --> 1:27:02.360
<v Speaker 1>I want a bunch of drunk skinheads on my great Really,

1:27:02.560 --> 1:27:04.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't think he would have cared for that at all.

1:27:04.320 --> 1:27:06.280
<v Speaker 1>God he got the short end of the stick. But

1:27:06.400 --> 1:27:10.080
<v Speaker 1>the thing that to remember about the Nazis is it

1:27:10.240 --> 1:27:12.920
<v Speaker 1>wasn't just because they were racist, but it's also because

1:27:13.040 --> 1:27:15.240
<v Speaker 1>at the time they came into being, there was this real, huge,

1:27:16.040 --> 1:27:19.120
<v Speaker 1>intellectual fat at loose in the world called the eugenics movement,

1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:22.400
<v Speaker 1>and which began here in America, by the way, Yeah,

1:27:22.960 --> 1:27:26.120
<v Speaker 1>and that great job. Yeah and then and then and

1:27:26.240 --> 1:27:27.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, of course leave it to Hitler in the

1:27:27.720 --> 1:27:30.160
<v Speaker 1>Gang to take this to an industrial scale. But they

1:27:30.200 --> 1:27:32.719
<v Speaker 1>actually thought that they were saving the human race because

1:27:32.760 --> 1:27:35.160
<v Speaker 1>they were all these inferior people out there, and if

1:27:35.160 --> 1:27:37.360
<v Speaker 1>you we think they're genes in the gene pool, it's

1:27:37.400 --> 1:27:39.720
<v Speaker 1>gonna make us all better off down the line. And

1:27:39.880 --> 1:27:43.600
<v Speaker 1>so that's where that came from. Obviously, Eugenics is like

1:27:44.080 --> 1:27:45.760
<v Speaker 1>it's I mean, it's still out there. You still see

1:27:46.120 --> 1:27:50.639
<v Speaker 1>the Darwin Awards, and there's movies like um Idiocracy, which

1:27:50.720 --> 1:27:52.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, embodies the same ideas, and so there's still

1:27:53.000 --> 1:27:56.320
<v Speaker 1>lots of people who really believe that hopefully we're not gonna, like,

1:27:56.400 --> 1:28:01.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, see a return to the Holocaust. Hopefully not. Yeah. Alright,

1:28:01.760 --> 1:28:04.040
<v Speaker 1>well enough of that. Do you guys have any series

1:28:04.560 --> 1:28:07.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm totally I think I think that Hess was sent

1:28:08.000 --> 1:28:12.719
<v Speaker 1>by Hitler, and I also think that he didn't kill himself.

1:28:13.000 --> 1:28:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I think it, of course you could have been shoop. Yeah,

1:28:16.360 --> 1:28:18.560
<v Speaker 1>he is about that right age. Yeah, I think he

1:28:18.680 --> 1:28:20.599
<v Speaker 1>was sent by Hitler. I think they were both duped

1:28:20.600 --> 1:28:24.839
<v Speaker 1>by my six probably, and I think it's highly possible.

1:28:24.880 --> 1:28:27.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't I obviously don't know, but I given the

1:28:27.840 --> 1:28:30.559
<v Speaker 1>fact that it was for so many years, it seems

1:28:30.560 --> 1:28:33.960
<v Speaker 1>so important to keep him muzzled, you gotta wonder. And

1:28:34.040 --> 1:28:35.720
<v Speaker 1>then and then all of a sudden he might be

1:28:35.840 --> 1:28:38.040
<v Speaker 1>let go bhoops. I guess it's time for him to

1:28:38.080 --> 1:28:41.400
<v Speaker 1>commit suicide. Yeah, you gotta wonder. I'm not saying I

1:28:41.520 --> 1:28:46.280
<v Speaker 1>have definitive evidence or anything, but I'm wondering. Alright. Well, anyway,

1:28:46.400 --> 1:28:50.920
<v Speaker 1>I guess we'll just call that once solved and solved

1:28:50.960 --> 1:28:54.120
<v Speaker 1>by something totally. Yea, there talking about we got it,

1:28:54.520 --> 1:28:57.599
<v Speaker 1>damn it. We've got a hundred percent record. That's awesome. Well, hey,

1:28:57.680 --> 1:29:00.320
<v Speaker 1>I'd tied for a few. A few things that you

1:29:00.320 --> 1:29:02.080
<v Speaker 1>guys probably want to know about. You probably want to know.

1:29:02.200 --> 1:29:05.040
<v Speaker 1>Do we have a website? Yeah, we do. It's called

1:29:05.120 --> 1:29:09.840
<v Speaker 1>Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Uh. You can download episodes,

1:29:10.000 --> 1:29:12.760
<v Speaker 1>listen episodes, check our links. We always put links out

1:29:12.800 --> 1:29:15.280
<v Speaker 1>for you, and you can also well, until recently, you

1:29:15.360 --> 1:29:18.120
<v Speaker 1>can also leave comments that we we actually turned turned

1:29:18.120 --> 1:29:21.240
<v Speaker 1>off the comments because well, some people were getting a

1:29:21.240 --> 1:29:23.600
<v Speaker 1>little love rule. Turns out the internet is full of

1:29:23.640 --> 1:29:27.200
<v Speaker 1>anonymous jerks. Yeah, and I apologize because we had some

1:29:27.320 --> 1:29:32.280
<v Speaker 1>other people who were posting really great, insightful first, but

1:29:32.400 --> 1:29:36.200
<v Speaker 1>there was all group who ruined it for everybody. I'm sorry, guys,

1:29:36.479 --> 1:29:38.800
<v Speaker 1>we couldn't police it anymore. Yeah, it's just so. We

1:29:38.880 --> 1:29:41.080
<v Speaker 1>do have some other options though, yes, yeah, yeah, you

1:29:41.160 --> 1:29:44.000
<v Speaker 1>can always go to Facebook. We are on Facebook, uh,

1:29:44.160 --> 1:29:46.519
<v Speaker 1>and you can you can like us, you better like us,

1:29:46.600 --> 1:29:48.640
<v Speaker 1>damn it, and join the group of course we have.

1:29:49.080 --> 1:29:52.600
<v Speaker 1>And there's also iTunes. You could subscribe and leave us

1:29:52.600 --> 1:29:55.080
<v Speaker 1>a review, hopefully a good review, and you can also

1:29:55.160 --> 1:29:57.160
<v Speaker 1>stream us from all kinds of places, although I don't know,

1:29:57.320 --> 1:29:59.160
<v Speaker 1>it seems to me like we get more complaints from

1:29:59.200 --> 1:30:02.439
<v Speaker 1>people going through dreaming services and from anybody else. Yeah.

1:30:02.520 --> 1:30:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately that's the streaming service not anymore used to be,

1:30:07.080 --> 1:30:09.639
<v Speaker 1>but it's not us anymore. Yeah, so if you are

1:30:09.720 --> 1:30:12.880
<v Speaker 1>having issues, find another streaming service, or maybe just I

1:30:12.880 --> 1:30:16.599
<v Speaker 1>don't know, go somewhere like our website. Where else we're

1:30:16.640 --> 1:30:20.479
<v Speaker 1>on We're on Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, excuse yeah, yeah, we're

1:30:21.200 --> 1:30:24.320
<v Speaker 1>all the time. Yeah, we do thinking sideways, that's without

1:30:24.360 --> 1:30:27.680
<v Speaker 1>the g uh. You can get the Reddit page that's

1:30:27.680 --> 1:30:29.560
<v Speaker 1>another place for people who used to be at the

1:30:29.600 --> 1:30:34.639
<v Speaker 1>website can go choose. We have the there's a new

1:30:35.080 --> 1:30:38.559
<v Speaker 1>discussion every time that we post each episode. Yeah, which

1:30:38.600 --> 1:30:41.720
<v Speaker 1>they're you know, they're small right now, but go say

1:30:41.760 --> 1:30:44.519
<v Speaker 1>your thoughts and those will be really really great. Yeah,

1:30:44.800 --> 1:30:46.519
<v Speaker 1>we want to hear what you guys think, good or bad,

1:30:46.600 --> 1:30:49.920
<v Speaker 1>preferably good. And also if you want to contact us privately,

1:30:49.920 --> 1:30:52.960
<v Speaker 1>you can always send us an email. We're thinking Sideways

1:30:53.160 --> 1:30:57.439
<v Speaker 1>podcast at gmail dot com, So send us an email

1:30:57.439 --> 1:30:59.439
<v Speaker 1>if you've got any ideas for a mystery or something

1:30:59.479 --> 1:31:01.479
<v Speaker 1>fun like that, or if you want to be an expert,

1:31:01.560 --> 1:31:03.719
<v Speaker 1>or you just want to chat chat about the mystery

1:31:03.760 --> 1:31:05.680
<v Speaker 1>in generally yeah, yeah, yeah, or if you happen to

1:31:05.720 --> 1:31:08.160
<v Speaker 1>know something about one of the mysteries. We replied to

1:31:08.320 --> 1:31:10.880
<v Speaker 1>every single email we got. We do sometimes they're not

1:31:10.920 --> 1:31:13.599
<v Speaker 1>as speedy as we want, but literally every single email

1:31:13.640 --> 1:31:17.120
<v Speaker 1>we get we replied to or replies it's just us.

1:31:18.320 --> 1:31:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah we don't have a boat yet, but we will

1:31:21.240 --> 1:31:25.080
<v Speaker 1>is going to be justin We've finally found a use

1:31:25.160 --> 1:31:28.840
<v Speaker 1>for that intern. Yeah where else. So also, if you

1:31:28.880 --> 1:31:31.040
<v Speaker 1>want to support the show, this is totally optional, of course,

1:31:31.120 --> 1:31:33.559
<v Speaker 1>but there is Patreon. You go to patreon dot com

1:31:33.680 --> 1:31:36.960
<v Speaker 1>slash thinking sideways and if you want to, you can

1:31:37.080 --> 1:31:40.280
<v Speaker 1>pledge a certain amount of money per episode. Be aware

1:31:40.280 --> 1:31:43.080
<v Speaker 1>of that, you know, because you get charged that amount

1:31:43.240 --> 1:31:45.559
<v Speaker 1>for every episode. So if you're giving us fifty bucks,

1:31:45.680 --> 1:31:47.800
<v Speaker 1>make sure, Oh no, you can if you want to,

1:31:47.920 --> 1:31:50.280
<v Speaker 1>just realize that it's gonna be every week. You're getting good,

1:31:50.720 --> 1:31:53.320
<v Speaker 1>which is the reason that we have the papal option

1:31:53.400 --> 1:31:55.720
<v Speaker 1>as well for one time donation. Or we've got the

1:31:55.760 --> 1:31:58.360
<v Speaker 1>merchandise which does support the show, and you get to

1:31:58.520 --> 1:32:00.840
<v Speaker 1>also support some sweet shirt hurts or have a mug

1:32:01.320 --> 1:32:04.280
<v Speaker 1>or a night light or some stickers. Somebody bought the

1:32:04.360 --> 1:32:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Mary celestire. We have a Mary celestire. Yeah, I'm just kidding,

1:32:12.960 --> 1:32:15.439
<v Speaker 1>all right. So that's about it for me. You guys

1:32:15.479 --> 1:32:17.360
<v Speaker 1>have any last thoughts where we signed up for the week,

1:32:17.479 --> 1:32:20.439
<v Speaker 1>I got Nazi else, Oh my god, no,