1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:05,359
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by a fleet of puppy supremacists. Instead,

2
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,400
Speaker 1: it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon.

3
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,480
Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more

4
00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:27,120
Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories

5
00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:32,160
Speaker 1: of things we simply don't know the answer to. Hi there,

6
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,120
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm your host Joe,

7
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 1: joined by my co host Den and Steve, and this

8
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 1: week we're going to talk about a really really interesting

9
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,199
Speaker 1: World War two mystery. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot of

10
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:47,919
Speaker 1: a lot of cool stuff happened around World War Two.

11
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 1: Time kicking it old school. Yeah. So our story begins

12
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 1: in the year nine. Germany had overrun much of Europe

13
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,280
Speaker 1: and was at war with Great Britain. As we all know,

14
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,800
Speaker 1: or you should know anyway, really do. Pass was the

15
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 1: Deputy fear of the National Socialist Democratic Workers Party AK

16
00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 1: the Nazis at the time, and he was the third

17
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,960
Speaker 1: most powerful man in Germany after Hitler and Goring. Though

18
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 1: he was a v I P. On May Tense, nineteen

19
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,760
Speaker 1: forty one, has did something kind of strange. He climbed

20
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,280
Speaker 1: into a measure from it BF one ten fighter bomber.

21
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: By the way, that I mentioned that Rudolph has knew

22
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 1: how to fly, Yeah, but we know, yeah, he knew

23
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 1: how to fly, and he flew to Scotland. His intention,

24
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 1: he said, was to negotiate a piece between Britain and Germany.

25
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,040
Speaker 1: So what the hell was he thinking? Yeah, big question,

26
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. Was he deranged? As Winston Churchill and

27
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,200
Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler both said. And also the general consensus is

28
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,800
Speaker 1: that Hitler was not aware before he left on his

29
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:46,960
Speaker 1: flight that he was going to leave and go to England,

30
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,960
Speaker 1: which is a little strange. Yeah, yeah, and that's a

31
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 1: general consensus. But really is that true? Did Hitler really

32
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 1: not know that his his third in command was going

33
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 1: on in a little trip. We're going out a little peace,

34
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 1: mister little? Yeah. Can I briefly ask, maybe you'll talk

35
00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 1: about it later. Why Scotland? Uh? Well, there was a

36
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 1: guy living in Scotland, that's the Duke of Hamilton's, Yeah,

37
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 1: who he felt might be sympathetic to his cause. Okay,

38
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 1: so we'll talk about that in a minute, Yeah we will.

39
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,799
Speaker 1: And also Rudolph ass left us with one last little mystery,

40
00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 1: which is how did he die? The official story is

41
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,960
Speaker 1: he committed suicide. But but other people think that he

42
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 1: was murdered. Yeah, I've read up on this and I

43
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,799
Speaker 1: can see how they would think that. Oh yeah, a

44
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,120
Speaker 1: lot a lot of people think he was murdered. That well,

45
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 1: let me tell you a little background on Rudolph. He

46
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 1: joined the Nazi Party in nineteen twenty after hearing Adolph

47
00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: Hitler speak at an event in Munich. He was member

48
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 1: number sixties, so he really got in on the ground

49
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,000
Speaker 1: floor of the whole thing. And that was at the

50
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,960
Speaker 1: time when Hitler was considered more charismatic and less crazy talk. Yeah,

51
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 1: so he was much more of a fair motivational speaking

52
00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I imagine that's how we got a lot

53
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 1: of people in the beginning. Yeah. Well, and and this

54
00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,840
Speaker 1: is post World War two, and with one post World one, yeah, exactly,

55
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,679
Speaker 1: my bad, post World War One, and a lot of Germans,

56
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,200
Speaker 1: of course, you know, they were under the Versite Treaty.

57
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,520
Speaker 1: The Gernamans were quite harsh and a lot of Germans

58
00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,640
Speaker 1: were very very angry about the outcome of the war.

59
00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,640
Speaker 1: And and so Hitler tapped into that pretty nicely. No,

60
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,800
Speaker 1: he definitely did. It. Turns out it's not so hard

61
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:23,239
Speaker 1: for crazy people to rally around the guys of fixing everything. Yeah,

62
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, Hitler fixed things real good. Well, like

63
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:32,639
Speaker 1: I said the guy. Yeah, uh, you guys thought, I'm

64
00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 1: sure heard of the famous beer hall push in thee

65
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,520
Speaker 1: when Hitler and Hess and a bunch of other Nazis

66
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 1: went into a German beer hall where they were holding

67
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 1: a Bugian town meeting basically tried to start a revolution.

68
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 1: I have read about this briefly, and it never made

69
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 1: sense to me, like it never seemed how I never

70
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,840
Speaker 1: understood why they thought it was a good idea. I

71
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,680
Speaker 1: mean either, I never never did either. But it turns out, yeah,

72
00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 1: it didn't work out so well for him. They wanted up.

73
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,640
Speaker 1: Hitler and Hess both went to jail for a while,

74
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 1: and at that time when that Hitler wrote his magnum

75
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 1: opus Mind comp in jail and has helped him edit it,

76
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: so he was part of that too. And at this

77
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 1: this is really when they started becoming really good friends

78
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,280
Speaker 1: and very close, very close relationship between these two. And

79
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 1: they always had a very close relationship, I mean through

80
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,680
Speaker 1: the years, not just at this point forward, is what

81
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,599
Speaker 1: I'm getting. Yeah, I think that their time together in

82
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 1: jail really kind of cemented the relationship, though, Has, as

83
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,279
Speaker 1: you all know, rose to power along with Hitler. And

84
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: Has this is a guy who introduced the concept of

85
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 1: Leban's round. Hitler he'd got an idea from one of

86
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,479
Speaker 1: his university professors at the University of Munich uh, and

87
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,920
Speaker 1: Leban's round in German means quote, let's go conquer most

88
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,880
Speaker 1: of eastern Europe so we can live correct translation rate

89
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 1: exactly what actually does it means living room and not

90
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,480
Speaker 1: not the living room in your house? Yeah? Yeah, they

91
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,480
Speaker 1: felt that I like the regional translation. Yeah yeah, well

92
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,960
Speaker 1: I as we all know, Hitler really took to the idea.

93
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah he did. Uh. In June nineteen four, Hitler was

94
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,839
Speaker 1: heard to say that what he wanted most was peace

95
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,000
Speaker 1: with Britain. And they've been at war with Britain for

96
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,800
Speaker 1: about a year and a half at this point, about correct, Yeah,

97
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 1: on that, okay, And he said that he felt it

98
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,080
Speaker 1: really was no need for the two countries to be

99
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 1: at war. And besides, I'm sure he had better use

100
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 1: for all those military assets that he was throwing at

101
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:29,359
Speaker 1: the Brits because um. In June one, of course, Operation

102
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,600
Speaker 1: Barbar also got underway. That was the invasion of the

103
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,839
Speaker 1: Soviet Union. But prior to that, they've been sending plane

104
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,120
Speaker 1: after plane after plane just bombing the holy crap out

105
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,800
Speaker 1: of Britain. Yeah, which is a lot of that's a

106
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,160
Speaker 1: lot of material, Yeah, which we could be more usefully

107
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,800
Speaker 1: spent on bombing Russians instead of Brits. You know. In

108
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,680
Speaker 1: June nineteen when Hitler said that they wanted peace, it

109
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,359
Speaker 1: looks like has started planning his piece initiative about that time.

110
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 1: Rudolph Hess first learned to fly in the German military

111
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,440
Speaker 1: near the end of World War one, uh and after

112
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,560
Speaker 1: the war in nine he got a price the pilot's

113
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,160
Speaker 1: license on several different planes, not all the same time.

114
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,279
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think he was out wealthy,

115
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 1: but he got pretty good at flying single engine planes.

116
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,640
Speaker 1: In October nineteen forty, who want to the Messer Schmidt

117
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,680
Speaker 1: Aircraft works in Augsburg, Bavaria, I hope, I pronounced Agsburg right,

118
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,719
Speaker 1: and he told them that he wanted to start training

119
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,600
Speaker 1: on the Messer Schmidt BF one ten, which is a

120
00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: twin engineer plane with a lot better rains and your

121
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,840
Speaker 1: typical single engine. And he received instruction on how to

122
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 1: fly from a Measter Schmith test pilot, and the company

123
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,440
Speaker 1: held a plane for his own personal use, which was

124
00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,800
Speaker 1: nice of them. Well, I mean, yeah, but one of

125
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,720
Speaker 1: Hitler's best friends. You're not going to be like guy

126
00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,080
Speaker 1: number three. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. They probably didn't make him

127
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 1: pay for it either. No, I'm sure they didn't. They

128
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 1: probably didn't even make him pay for the gas or

129
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,800
Speaker 1: all the upgrades. Yeah, they they did upgraded a bit.

130
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,760
Speaker 1: They installed a radio compass, long range drop tanks, which

131
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 1: are fuel tanks, reportedly modified the oxygen delivery system, though

132
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,920
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly what was done there. That's all

133
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 1: I heard. I would imagine that they were extending the

134
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 1: range of the plane regarding fuel, they might want to

135
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 1: add some oxygen to They would probably have upgraded the

136
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 1: oxygen system to match it. Probably, Yeah, I would guess

137
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,000
Speaker 1: that as well. It seems like oxygen would be an

138
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 1: important component to right directly following fuel. Yes, I don't know.

139
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 1: Oxygen might be even more important than fuel on a

140
00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 1: fuel that if you can't breathe them blackout, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Alternately,

141
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 1: if you run out of fuel, you might be able

142
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 1: to pilot the plane to a safer landing even if

143
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 1: the fuel runs out as long as the oxygen. So

144
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 1: we're both right. Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm going to call

145
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 1: us a win win. So what are we at here?

146
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,800
Speaker 1: Made tense that theay of reckoning at PM has climbed

147
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 1: into his Meastrishman took off in the airport at Augsburg

148
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,960
Speaker 1: and flew northwest, eventually turned north, hit the coast of

149
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,480
Speaker 1: the North Sea, right around bremer Haven, Germany, turned east

150
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,440
Speaker 1: trip to stay out of the rage of British radar,

151
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 1: and then turned north northwest nine PM, re turned west

152
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 1: southwest and headed towards the northern part of England. So

153
00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,960
Speaker 1: hang on here, Joe, just so people get an idea.

154
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 1: He took off, he headed and he basically did a

155
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: kind of a zigzag north is what he was doing

156
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 1: until he got to Scotland, and then he was hanging

157
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 1: basically a Greek turn, correct, not a one eight really

158
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 1: was that was exactly. But he went west northwest and

159
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 1: then basically made a ninety degree turn and headed not

160
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: excuse me, he had a north northwest and then made

161
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 1: a ninety degree turn and headed west southwest. Yeah, so

162
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,040
Speaker 1: I think part of it is he was killing a

163
00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,240
Speaker 1: little bit of time because he wanted it to be

164
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 1: dark when he when he actually hit England, and so

165
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,200
Speaker 1: it was dark. He actually did sort of kill some

166
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,280
Speaker 1: time out at sea too, waiting for it to get dark,

167
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 1: and then flew over the northern part of England um

168
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,760
Speaker 1: at about fifty ft of altitude. So he was picked

169
00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,959
Speaker 1: up on the radar and some r a F fighters

170
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,880
Speaker 1: were scrambled to intercept him, but they couldn't find him. Well,

171
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 1: the thing that I didn't understand for a long time

172
00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 1: when I was doing the reading is if he why

173
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 1: was he killing so much in time? Why didn't he

174
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,960
Speaker 1: just leave later in the day. That would have been

175
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,240
Speaker 1: a good idea. Well, it turns out he was following

176
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,080
Speaker 1: a U is it the blitz Crieg. Yeah, he was

177
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 1: following a group of planes and tagging along on their

178
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: navigation to get himself to Britain. So he was following

179
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,680
Speaker 1: a suite of bombers that were heading for London that day.

180
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,079
Speaker 1: That's the reason he left when he did, instead of saying, what,

181
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:25,760
Speaker 1: I'll leave like an hour and a half later and

182
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,360
Speaker 1: then I don't have to dink around in the middle

183
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 1: of the ocean flying in circles. I mean, that was

184
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,200
Speaker 1: probably a good idea, just for radars as well. Yeah,

185
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,560
Speaker 1: although you don't want to be tagging tag along with

186
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 1: those guys when they actually reached Britain, because it's going

187
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,280
Speaker 1: to be after you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot

188
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,280
Speaker 1: of flak in the air at that point, that too. Yeah,

189
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,079
Speaker 1: so yeah, you understand why he didn't like to fly

190
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:52,319
Speaker 1: just directly to London and then north. He didn't leave them. Yeah,

191
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 1: a little letter. Ten pm he was picked up on radar,

192
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,120
Speaker 1: asist said, and he flew north into Scotland. He was

193
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,000
Speaker 1: mostly navigating by landmarks. It should be kind of tricky

194
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,240
Speaker 1: in the dark. Yeah. He was having trouble finding his destination,

195
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,440
Speaker 1: which was a place called Dune Gable House and I

196
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 1: could be pronouncing that incorrectly. I looked it up on

197
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,400
Speaker 1: the internet and I got three different pronouncing nation pronunciations

198
00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,320
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, yeah, so well. And the reason he

199
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:18,880
Speaker 1: was having such hard time in the dark though, was

200
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 1: because it's wartime. Everybody was keeping their lights off at

201
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,480
Speaker 1: now or shuttering their windows, so there was nothing to

202
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,920
Speaker 1: navigate by. I know, so well, there's landmarks still, but

203
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean fight on the ground and say oh this

204
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,600
Speaker 1: should be should be this town? Yeah, I know that

205
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,480
Speaker 1: that would be it was a tricky thing. And uh,

206
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 1: but anyway, the dun Gable House is the home of

207
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,040
Speaker 1: the Duke of Hamilton's. It's not that anymore now. It's

208
00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,040
Speaker 1: like an immigrant detention center somehow, so somehow that the

209
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 1: Duke of Hamilton's lives somewhere else now. The Duke was

210
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 1: a friend who has his friend Albert hoss Hoofer, who

211
00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,559
Speaker 1: had a lot of English contacts. In fact, there were

212
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,880
Speaker 1: lots of There was lots of contacts between the British

213
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 1: aristocracy and a lot of the German aristocracy because they

214
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 1: all knew each other, there aristocracy, and they're all like that,

215
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,120
Speaker 1: they're all that kind of family. Has thought that Hamiltonson

216
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,480
Speaker 1: was would be sympathetic to his peace mission. And again

217
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 1: there's there's a little bit of back and forth about

218
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,080
Speaker 1: exactly why he believed that. I'll talk about that in

219
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,840
Speaker 1: more detail later. Some people think that perhaps m I

220
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,240
Speaker 1: six tricked to him into thinking that there was a

221
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,280
Speaker 1: whole bunch of people in Britain that would be really

222
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,240
Speaker 1: receptive to his peace proposal. So that's one theory that's

223
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: out there well. And then there's also the what is

224
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,599
Speaker 1: it the Anglo Germanic society was that what wash I

225
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 1: think it was the Anglo German Friendship Society something like that. Yeah,

226
00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,120
Speaker 1: that was. That was I think also one of the

227
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 1: big theories of why he thought he would be sympathetic. Yeah,

228
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 1: and also the Duke had access to King George's sixth

229
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,120
Speaker 1: and that was that would be a big bonus. And

230
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 1: also best of all, done Gable House had an airstrip

231
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 1: because highly important for airplane Yeah and yeah, the Duke

232
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,720
Speaker 1: of Hamilton, it turns out, was also an airplane enthusiast

233
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 1: like Hess, so they had something in common there. I

234
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,080
Speaker 1: should also note it was rumor that a number of

235
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 1: members of the royal family were pro German, or at

236
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 1: least not in favor of war with Germany, which really

237
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't be too outlandish. When do you think that, consider

238
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 1: that they're actually part German themselves. You know. The House

239
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,000
Speaker 1: of Windsor Windsor actually did not begin until when they

240
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,080
Speaker 1: changed their name from what was it the House of Saxe,

241
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:24,679
Speaker 1: Coburn and Gotha, which doesn't exactly sound British. And yeah, yeah,

242
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,080
Speaker 1: so that the name change was due to anti German

243
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 1: sentiment World War One, Oh yeah, I'm sure. And so

244
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,720
Speaker 1: down now that the Windsor's Uh. The way back to

245
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,720
Speaker 1: Rudolph Hesse and his plane, he was having trouble finding

246
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,199
Speaker 1: the Duke's house, so he turned flew west to the

247
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,559
Speaker 1: first of Clyde, where he oriented himself, and then he

248
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 1: flew back inland. But by the time he was back

249
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,120
Speaker 1: in the vicinity of doom Gable, he was low on

250
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 1: fuel and he had picked up a little company. Yeah

251
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 1: I know, arif interceptor finally began pursuit of him. And

252
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 1: this is I forget the name of the plane. It's

253
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,439
Speaker 1: an interesting looking plane. Instead of having a four guns

254
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 1: and the wings like most fighters do you think of having,

255
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, this one didn't have those, but it had

256
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,320
Speaker 1: behind the pilot there was a turret with a couple

257
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,280
Speaker 1: of gun barrels sticking out of it. Really, yeah, I

258
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: didn't look just playing up. Yeah, it's a strange little

259
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,280
Speaker 1: strange look a little plane. It would almost have been

260
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 1: if if I if you were to imagine it being

261
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,000
Speaker 1: a two seater. The second seat was actually the gun Yeah,

262
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,439
Speaker 1: it was actually the gunner. Yeah, sitting there and raised

263
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,319
Speaker 1: tail is a raised turret over the over the pilot's seat.

264
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 1: So you know, I mean handy because you can shoot

265
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 1: to your side. I guess I just gotta be careful

266
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 1: not to shoot your wings off or anything. Yeah, it's

267
00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,120
Speaker 1: probably the first thing to cover in training day one.

268
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,839
Speaker 1: Don't shoot the wing. Yeah, that's right. You'll get a

269
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 1: black market. Your record that was that was a ten

270
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:47,840
Speaker 1: thirty at night. You said, yeah, I was ten thirty

271
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,920
Speaker 1: at night. Has decided it was time to bail. So

272
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,680
Speaker 1: he climbed a six thousand feet and jumped out. Luckily,

273
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,400
Speaker 1: he had a parachute on and he landed about ten

274
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 1: miles northwest of his destination, near the village of Eagles

275
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,240
Speaker 1: Amma or Eaglesham, which is actually pretty close when you

276
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,079
Speaker 1: could say, it was dark and he didn't have much

277
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,480
Speaker 1: in the way of navigational just like a compass, super

278
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 1: lucky compass. Yeah, and that was so uh. He was

279
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 1: seen parachuting in by a local farmer named David McClean.

280
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 1: McClean found him on the ground wrestling with his parachute

281
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,040
Speaker 1: and he had a very badly wrenched ankle. McClean was

282
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,120
Speaker 1: armed with a pitchfork and essentially took him took a prisoner.

283
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 1: And how did he see him coming down? I'm not

284
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,280
Speaker 1: really sure. Maybe there was a moon that night, there

285
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,800
Speaker 1: must have been if he was navigating at that time

286
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,800
Speaker 1: of night by landmark, there must have been at least

287
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 1: a half moon. There must have been good some good

288
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 1: moon light. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking I would expect. Also,

289
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,040
Speaker 1: if you heard a plane above, like you know, two

290
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 1: planes kind of in hot pursuit above you, you might

291
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: look up and then you might see something kind of

292
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 1: pop out of one and think huh. And I don't

293
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 1: know if he was on the ground by the time

294
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 1: his plane crash. His plane crash very shortly after he bailed. Yeah, yeah,

295
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 1: but there even in the distance, it must have been

296
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 1: a kind of a big kaboo. Yeah, that that plane.

297
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,720
Speaker 1: Have you seen the photos of his plane? It was

298
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 1: pretty He did not survive that now not not so well. Uh,

299
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,520
Speaker 1: you fought a side about this farm where he um.

300
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: He actually went to the where the plane wreckage side was.

301
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 1: After after the homeguard came and got hass took him

302
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 1: off his hands, he went over and he found a

303
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 1: plane crash side and he had some parts in the bushes.

304
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 1: And then after after they had hauled all the rest

305
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 1: of the wreckage away, he went back and got those

306
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 1: and so he had those you had those around for

307
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 1: a year or yeah, and I think he eventually trophies. Yeah. Yeah,

308
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 1: he gave one or one or two away and I

309
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:31,800
Speaker 1: think some of the other one A couple of the

310
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,720
Speaker 1: other ones he sold. Yeah, part of Rudolph has his plane,

311
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, very collectible. Yeah. So they hobbled back to

312
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,480
Speaker 1: his cottage, McLean's cottage, and they had a cup of

313
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,160
Speaker 1: tea and McClane contacted the Home Guard, who showed up

314
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,680
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter with some police. Has was operating under a

315
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 1: different name at this point. Yeah, he said his name

316
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 1: was Captain Alfred Horne. Then he needed to speak with

317
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,920
Speaker 1: the Duke of Hamilton's And in another account I read,

318
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 1: he said he told the Home Guard guys, tell the

319
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 1: Duke of Hamilton's that I've arrived. He and but he

320
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 1: was German, right, so he would have had a relatively

321
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 1: thick accent. Uh yeah, I mean he spoke English fluently.

322
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 1: He was actually raised in the English section of Alexandria, Egypt,

323
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: so he did speak English. So do you but do

324
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 1: you know about accent? I just like if you have

325
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 1: a German accent accent in nine in England, people are

326
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 1: going to be like, Okay, Mr Horn, I'll get right

327
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: on that. I absolutely positive he had a fairly distinct accent.

328
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 1: He is speed, His English was good to speak. He

329
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: evidently wasn't that good at interpreting English though, that was

330
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,520
Speaker 1: a difficulty for him for quite a while, which is weird.

331
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: You know, whenever I've tried to tackle a foreign language,

332
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,680
Speaker 1: I always find understanding it it's easier for me than speaking.

333
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting that some friends who are fluent in

334
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,520
Speaker 1: like a stupid amount of languages, and um, a couple

335
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 1: of them have been fluent since birth in both languages,

336
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 1: and for them it is hard to translate because they

337
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 1: just think in both languages. So it's like a concept

338
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 1: and you whatever in which you're speaking in They just

339
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 1: know the words that they're trying to think, but they

340
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 1: have to actually really think about what the word for

341
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 1: that in the other languages. Yeah, they have to actually

342
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,439
Speaker 1: take a step back and say, Okay, but if I

343
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 1: were having this conversation in this other language, that lamp

344
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 1: would be called that other word, you know. So I

345
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,160
Speaker 1: I wonder if there was something like that going on. Yeah,

346
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,159
Speaker 1: I don't know, but anyway, that's so there were there

347
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,240
Speaker 1: were some communication difficulties through this whole thing back to

348
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 1: the Home Guard. They took them away to their little

349
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,399
Speaker 1: h Q, and according to one source that I found,

350
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 1: there was actually a reception committee of military intelligence officers

351
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,920
Speaker 1: waiting at the air strip of Hamilton's estate. I only

352
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,439
Speaker 1: heard that in one place, so I'm not sure if

353
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 1: that's true or not. So apparently it has captured by

354
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,920
Speaker 1: the Home Guard was a little bit of a hitch

355
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,680
Speaker 1: in their plans. It might be if they had indeed

356
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 1: lured him under false pretenses to Britain. Maybe they were

357
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 1: planning on just secretly spiriting him away and never telling

358
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 1: the public anything. But because he got captured by the

359
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 1: Home Guard, Yeah, and maybe that they were actually planning

360
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,120
Speaker 1: on trying to work something out, and that wouldn't necessarily

361
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 1: be in popular opinion, So you would kind of want

362
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,440
Speaker 1: to take it slow. Well, I was, I was, actually

363
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 1: Joe said that. I was like, Well, maybe they're trying

364
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 1: to work something out of him with fists and do

365
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 1: it completely under the radar and nobody would ever know

366
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 1: where they go. There's I mean, there's a lot of

367
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,679
Speaker 1: reasons that you would not want to publicize that that

368
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,720
Speaker 1: guy was in your country. Yeah, yeah, probably Hitler would

369
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: have kept it quiet too. It was embarrassing for him. Yeah,

370
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 1: uh so, yeah, the whole thing could have been kept

371
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,920
Speaker 1: a secret, except books. He didn't make his target, so yeah,

372
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 1: he got captured anyway. Supposedly it was this reception committee

373
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: that caught up with Hess in Home Guard custody and

374
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: they persuaded the Home Guard people to finally let him go,

375
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 1: and so they took him to mary Hill Barracks near Glasgow, Scotland,

376
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 1: and then the Duke of Hamilton did arrived the next

377
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 1: day to see has and that's when it has revealed

378
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,359
Speaker 1: his true identity and said I think the words were quote,

379
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 1: I'm here to save the world, something melodramatic like that. Yeah,

380
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 1: but he wanted to he wanted to work out a

381
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 1: peace deal. This is one thing I love about Germans days.

382
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,120
Speaker 1: They're so direct. It's I'm not gonna work up to us.

383
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,199
Speaker 1: I'm going to save everybody. Let me do that now.

384
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 1: I'm not not really going to save the world, just

385
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 1: Germany in England. Well, that's all the world that he

386
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 1: cares about pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. One of the concessions

387
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,200
Speaker 1: that he apparently uh put forward was that Germany would

388
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 1: withdraw from Western Europe except for parts of France like Alsassin,

389
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 1: Lorraine they were going to keep. Uh, they would allow

390
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 1: Britain to keep its overseas possessions and in return they

391
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: wanted a free hand in Eastern Europe and Russia. They

392
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: would also try to mediate a settlement between Britain and Italy. Um.

393
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 1: And also they said that they would buy the full

394
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 1: output of Allied war industries production while they were converting

395
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 1: back to peacetime uses to help avoid any economic downturn.

396
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: So I have a lot of problems with this, but

397
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait until we get into the very section

398
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 1: because there's all kinds of holes in this for me. Yeah. Well,

399
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: apparently Has had a full on, full blown peace proposal

400
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: which was eventually I think presented to Churchill. He met

401
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 1: with the Duke of Hamilton. Churchill did that is and

402
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: they met with the war cabinet, and apparently there was

403
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: no interest in a peace deal. Uh. They didn't tell

404
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,360
Speaker 1: his Has this for a while. Well, I mean it's

405
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 1: not surprising to me that Britain didn't think there was

406
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,120
Speaker 1: there was any reason for a peace deal, right, I mean,

407
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 1: the whole reason that everybody was going to war was

408
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 1: like because the Nazis are bad and we don't like

409
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 1: what they're doing. Right, It wasn't oh, they're coming to

410
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 1: get us, so we have to defend ourselves. It was

411
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: more of a proactive approach. So it makes sense to

412
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,360
Speaker 1: me that they wouldn't necessarily I mean that would if

413
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 1: they did have a peace deal, it would just basically

414
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: give tacit consent to what was going on in the

415
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: rest of the world the Nazis controlled exactly because I

416
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: mean that's why Britain declared wars, because they had had

417
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,679
Speaker 1: a treaty with Poland, you know that one defense the

418
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: other well Poland was invaded. Well you know, they had

419
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 1: to kind of they had to actually do something about it,

420
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: and so it's like that whole sense of honor. But

421
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: at this time the war was not really going that

422
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: great for Britain, right, you know, speaking of Poland. When

423
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 1: I was doing the research, one of the things that

424
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: I always am really interested in, and this is just

425
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: a weird thing about me, is posters from different eras,

426
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,679
Speaker 1: and one of the ones that was in Britain at

427
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: the time was the Polish flag. And you know, it's

428
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: in the typical nineteen forties illustration style. It's all torn

429
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 1: up and it just says Poland first to fight. Really

430
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: really was really well done, but it was just so

431
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: iconic for the area. They're so cool some of them.

432
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:35,479
Speaker 1: Some of them are a little offensive though. There are

433
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: some serious stereotypes going on, and some of those old posters,

434
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: I will agree, they are very very brutal. Yeah. You

435
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: know who actually produced some interesting World War two propaganda cartoons,

436
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 1: Dr Seuss. Yeah, some of them are seriously racist. Yeah, almost,

437
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, especially especially like the

438
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: one with Uncle Sam's in an alley. He's back and

439
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: he's got all these these these grass they're coming after him,

440
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: and they have little Japanese faces on them, and it

441
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: is very very stereotypical. But let's get away from that.

442
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: I have another question, because this is something I've also

443
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: never understood about Germany, is why didn't they quit when

444
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: they were ahead? I've never understood and this is maybe

445
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: just well, yeah, why did they Why did they decide

446
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 1: to do that? Why did they continue to push on

447
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: into North Africa? I mean they had they had essentially

448
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: rolled through a huge part of Western Europe, and if

449
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: they had just stopped and sat, that's how countries have

450
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: been formed for thousands of years is we took it

451
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: over and we just stayed and eventually everybody went, okay,

452
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: well that's yours. We don't like it, but that's yours.

453
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: Why did why did the Why didn't the Romans stop

454
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: when they were ahead? Well I don't understand that either.

455
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: That's why I'm asking is I've never understood why they

456
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: didn't say, here's the question we took Europe. Just a

457
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: question for a while. When you go like gamble, do

458
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: you stop when you're it? Yeah? Do you actually? Absolutely?

459
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: I have a system. Okay, okay, cheating doesn't count. No,

460
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: I have X amount of money. I'm going to gamble,

461
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: and that money's in one pocket, and if I win,

462
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: I put it in another pocket. And when the original

463
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: bank is empty, if there's money left over, I walk out.

464
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: That's not stopping. But but if I win. If I

465
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: let's say I'm on a slot machine and I hit

466
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: and I win a hunter bucks on a nickel slot,

467
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 1: I'll say, all right, well now my bank, I can't

468
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 1: go below let's say eight bucks. So I'm I'm continually

469
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: setting a bar that I will not drop below. So

470
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: I'm always add so I do stop when I'm ahead.

471
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,479
Speaker 1: I think the thought process is that you like, okay, so,

472
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 1: yeah they were ahead because they had like a bunch

473
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: in their winning pocket, right, but they still had money

474
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: in their other pockets, so it still felt like I'm

475
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: winning even though you know, okay, well, if I gamble

476
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: this like one nickel, strategically, you know what. Gambling is

477
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: not the right pa betaphor. It is such a big

478
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: area that strategically the resources don't make sense to me.

479
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: It's something that I've never understood. I think. I think

480
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: people have a hard time stopping on their heads, and

481
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: that's probably what I mean. Hitler had gone a little.

482
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: They also think you get delusional. It could have been that. Yeah,

483
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: he definitely did bite off more than you can chew.

484
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: You should have looked at the lessons of history. I mean,

485
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: Napoleon didn't fare that well in Russia either, did he.

486
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: Nobody fares well in Russia. Russian has barely fared well.

487
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: The joke is like, come to Russia and our country

488
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: will fight you. The actual terrain just kills people. The

489
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: people of Russia don't have to do anything they have.

490
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: There is a lot of strategic depth there too, to

491
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: surrender a lot of territory, and oh yeah, you can

492
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: continue to just give and give and give in the ground,

493
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: we'll just eat up the troops that are invading. Yeah,

494
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I took us way off track that okay, yeah,

495
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: we are way off track, by the way. So far,

496
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: I haven't mentioned what happened back in Germany when Hitler

497
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: found out about all this. This was a day after

498
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: this is eleven. Hass had given his adjutant, a guy

499
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: named Carl Heinz Pinch, a letter to deliver to Hitler

500
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: the day after has left and also to basically tell

501
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: him what he had done. So Pinch delivered his report.

502
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: Apparently Hitler blew his stack. He delivered it directly to Hitler.

503
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah he did, ok, Yeah, and he was rather upset.

504
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: And it was unfortunate for for Pinch because you know,

505
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, shoot the messenger and all

506
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: that stuff. He was arrested and jailed, and also a

507
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: lot of other people around Hess were also arrested. Uh.

508
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: Pinch was later released, but then he was sent to

509
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: the Eastern Front to fight the Russians, and so he

510
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: really wasn't released. Yeah, basically a big step down for him.

511
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: Is the allegation that Pinch knew what the letter contained, Like,

512
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: did he know that Hass had left? Yeah? Yeah, I

513
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: think that it wasn't just like, Okay, I'm going to

514
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: bed give this letter to Hitler tomorrow. Well I don't

515
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: think it was just him giving the letter to Hitler.

516
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: I think he also gave him an oral report basically

517
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: said you know, Hass has gone to I can understand

518
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: why you would you would arrest him. Then, I mean

519
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: it's more than yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally is true.

520
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be clear on that. It wasn't

521
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: just like literally he was like, I don't know, Hess

522
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: just gave me this letter to give to you. Yeah,

523
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: I don't know what's in it. Yeah yeah, but apparently

524
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: and decides which Even if he hadn't said anything like that,

525
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure that would have been suspicions. Yeah. Yeah. Pinch

526
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: was then captured by the Russia. Oh yeah, I was

527
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: captured by the Russian, tortured, tortured, held in captivity for

528
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: like ten years or something like some crazy eleven page

529
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: like a story or something. It was a page I

530
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: don't know, confession or just telling all he knew or

531
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: whatever that was eventually found in the historical archives many

532
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: million years later. So Hitler said at the at the

533
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: time that he felt like it was a huge betrayal

534
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: because he was such a good friend. He also said,

535
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, that he thought that Hess had

536
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: just gone over the edge, and again Winston Churchill agreed

537
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: with him on that one. They didn't agree on a

538
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: whole lot. Yeah, and also Hitler apparently gave orders that

539
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: Hess was to be shot on site if he returned

540
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: to Germany. Well back to Hesson in Scotland. He was

541
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: shuffled around to various places, eventually wind up spending thirteen

542
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: months in a place called camp Z. He was in

543
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: the Tower of London for a while. Yeah. Before that, yeah,

544
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: I was. I just didn't want to give a laundry

545
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: list of all the places. When I noticed that, I

546
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: was like, oh, he's another one of the because there

547
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: was only two Germans that were in the tower. Ever

548
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: it was one of them. Yeah, lucky him. Camps He

549
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: was a mansion in the town of Mitchett outside of London.

550
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: Um kind of south west is love London. And by

551
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: the way, I'm sure I'll get at least one email

552
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: telling me that it's actually pronounced mitch m I did

553
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: look it up on the on the Internet and supposedly

554
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: it is pronounced mitchett. So I hope that's right. Well, yeah,

555
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, let me know. So at this point

556
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: has really saw himself as a diplomatic emissary, and uh,

557
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: he demanded to be sent back to Germany while the

558
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: British didn't. Asylum. That's interesting. What's not asylum? What is

559
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: it called, like diplomatic community or something. But you know,

560
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: it's like that. The problem was has swore the whole

561
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: time that Hitler never had any clue that he was

562
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: going to leave and go to Britain. And so because

563
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: of that, because he essentially hadn't really been sent by

564
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: the German government as an official emissary, Churchill in the

565
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: Gang felt like, well, we can keep him. Yeah, I

566
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: mean I think I understand that empirically, but I understand

567
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: Hess's argument too. Right, He's like third in command of

568
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: the of the German government, so he sent himself on

569
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: a mission and they're saying no, no, no, the German

570
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: government didn't sent you. But I well, the problem is

571
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: is that his position was a puppet position, had absolutely

572
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: no power he had been progressively pushed farther and farther

573
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: out of the power structure of the regime. But you

574
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: we all know that guy, right, the guy who the

575
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: Dwight shrut of of the group, right, that's you know,

576
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: assistant to the manager. And he keeps saying, yeah, I'm

577
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: the assistant manager, and it's like no, no, no, you're

578
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: the assistant to the manager. You keep getting pushed out

579
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: and told no, but you think that you are so

580
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: much more. So I can understand his argument. It may

581
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: mean that he went loopy, but or it might be

582
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: overstepped his bounds. Yeah, yeah, it might be he thought

583
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: this was a way to really, you know, like he

584
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: thought Hitler wanted this. Yeah, he did. He thought he

585
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: was doing a good favor for his good buddy. Yeah.

586
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: He was extremely loyal to Hitler. I mean, and even

587
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: though Hitler said he thought this was a betrayal, I

588
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: don't think Hess saw it that way at all. He

589
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: was trying to do him a favor. It's possible, and

590
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: it's alleged that maybe Hitler didn't think that at first.

591
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: But I know, we're going to get into all of

592
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: this stuff, so well, yeah, there are there are people

593
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: who say otherwise. Yeah, I was just going to throw

594
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: out there that it's also possible that, you know, Hitler

595
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: said off handedly, yeah, I totally want peace with Britain

596
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: and didn't remember it at all, And then you know,

597
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: has starts planning and plotting and thinking, oh my gosh,

598
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: this is going to be the best surprise for Hitler.

599
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: When I he's he's gonna love it, and Hitler's like,

600
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: what do you mean I said that. I never said that.

601
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, I was joking. Due remember that time

602
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: you bedazzled an entire fighter plane for me and I

603
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: said I didn't really want that same situation. Yeah, alright,

604
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: So anyway, having a hard time, I identify with hats

605
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry because you like the bedazzled things. Yeah, it's

606
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: true and steel planes and history, certainly it hasn't been successful.

607
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: History would have turned out a little differently. Oh absolutely. Yeah. Anyway,

608
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: back to Camp Z. Hass was there for thirteen months.

609
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: As I said, he was, of course, I'm sure being interrogated. Yeah,

610
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: at one point he tried to kill himself, I throw

611
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: himself over a staircase railing because he apparently he was depressed.

612
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: He was pretty disappointed that his peace plan hadn't worked out,

613
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 1: didn't work out. He was a prisoner. He was like

614
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: he couldn't be friends with his friends anymore, probably being

615
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: tortured family, you know, since he wasn't going to see

616
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: his family again. Yeah, I'm sure there was a lot

617
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: to be depressed about. Yeah. He might have also felt

618
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: that the patriotic duty to kill himself before the British

619
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: from wrong. Too many secrets out of him. Unfortunately he

620
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: didn't succeed, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it.

621
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: He just broke his leg pretty pretty severely too. He

622
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: had to be in traction for like twelve weeks. Yeah,

623
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: that would not be fun. No fun. Yeah, just a

624
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: note to our listeners. Throwing yourself down a staircase not

625
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: the best or over staircase railing not the best way

626
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: to do it. No, not really. It's only two or

627
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: three steps. You're not going to hurt you. Yeah, it was.

628
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: It was more than that. He might twist your ankle, yeah,

629
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: wrench it severely. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, After he recovered from

630
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: from his leg thing, Hess was sent to a military

631
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: hospital in South Wales. He stayed in his military hospital

632
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: till the end of the war and apparently that that

633
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: was a good place. It was was a hospital not

634
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: only for military members but also for POWs, so it

635
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: was a fairly secure place, not like your ordinary hospital,

636
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: and actually required few regards than Cam's. He did. He

637
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: tried to kill himself when he was there, too, didn't

638
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: he He did. He tried to stab himself with a

639
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: bread knife. I didn't work out so well either, apparently, jokes.

640
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: Two stitches, two stitches to sew it up. Man, My

641
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: brother busted open his chin and it took more than that. Yeah,

642
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: that was a half heart of the tamp I don't.

643
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: I could never stab myself to that. That would be

644
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: a hard way to That would be tough. People do it,

645
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: But that would be hard, I think people. Yeah, you must,

646
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: you really would want to have to die and some

647
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: serious resolve. Yeah, Well, as you know, in the end,

648
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: Germany surrendered. You guys did know that, right? Yeah? I

649
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: thought they won. I thought we were speaking. That's wrong.

650
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: That's not real life. No, it's not real life. I

651
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: might be from an alternate universe. You probably are. We

652
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: wondered that about. Oh I'm sorry. Also, it's burn Stein,

653
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: not bernstein Stein. After the surrender in October nineteen, he

654
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: was sent to Nuremberg to face the International Military Tribunal

655
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: ak the nerd Broke trials. You've heard of those, I'm sure, yeah,

656
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: pretty well. Now he was charged with conspiracy to commit crimes,

657
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity, all

658
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: crimes against peace. Yeah, he was trying to make peace. Yeah. Well, anyway,

659
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: Luckily for him, since he sat out most of the war,

660
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: it was really pretty hard to get convictions on on

661
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: the war crimes and crimes against humanity. But he was

662
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: found guilty of conspiracy and again crimes against peace and

663
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison. Apparently the Soviet Soviet judge

664
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: in the trial wanted to him to die by hanging.

665
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: They had a real thing against him, they really did. Yeah, yeah,

666
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: it is, but yeah, they really didn't like hess. And anyway,

667
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: the French judge wanted to give him twenty years in prison,

668
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: which is probably a little more fair. Correct me if

669
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. Nobody else got life, Um, there were or

670
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: was it there was a couple that got life who

671
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: didn't live very longer. There were there were three that

672
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: got life. Of the seven people that we were sent

673
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: to prison, three of them got life, and then the

674
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: other four got fifteen or twenty years depending. I don't

675
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: remember which ones. Yeah, most of them got released early

676
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: except Perhus. He wants to spend out prison in West Berlin,

677
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: which was he's exclusively for the seven prisoners who were

678
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: convicted but not put death. So this this prison was

679
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: a fairly large one. It has six hundred cells, or

680
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: I should say it had six hundred cells. It's not

681
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: there anymore. But they only had seven prisoners. But only

682
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: seven prisoners. Yeah, they were these former high racking Nazis.

683
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: That was run by the four powers, that's the US, Britain,

684
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: France and the USSR. And they also applied the guards

685
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: and along about nineteen sixty six there were only three

686
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: prisoners left and spanned out. As I said before, I

687
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: had six hundred cells. Yeah, we'd be rattling around that place. Yeah.

688
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: In October nineteen sixty six, Albert Spear and Baldard vont

689
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: S finished their sentences and they left. And so from

690
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: that time on until his death in nineteen eight seven,

691
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: Rudolfs was the only inmated spend out prison. Twenty one

692
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: years all by yourself in this prison, and you can't

693
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: talk to anybody. Uh, he could have very limited visits,

694
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: visits with his family, but there were guards. He could

695
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: talk to the guards, but the guards were constantly rotating

696
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: in and out from different countries and stuff. But I

697
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: also remember that there was there was sanctions on what

698
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: he could talk about. Now. He wasn't allowed to talk

699
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: about his piece mission or certain things about what he

700
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: had done while he was with the Nazi Party, Remember

701
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: there was. It was just it was strange to me

702
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: the clampdown on certain topics. Yeah, no, it really is true.

703
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: He was not just allowed to talk freely. Well, I mean,

704
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: did not not apply to all of the prisoners. You know,

705
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I just sort of researched this

706
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: from the hest point of view. I'm sure. I'm sure

707
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: there were there were a lot of restrictions on also

708
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: in their behavior. But even if even if it was

709
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: that way for everybody, it probably didn't end up being

710
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: his extreme because they had other German prisoners to associate with,

711
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: so they at least had some some shared common bond,

712
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: whereas when it's a set of guards who rotate every year,

713
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: you can't make any personal connections. Yeah, not really. I mean,

714
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: there were a few longer term employees like he had.

715
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: I had a friendship with the warden at one time.

716
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: I'll tell you more about that later. And that was interesting,

717
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: but I imagine it was probably a lonely existence anyway.

718
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: And even Winston Churchill, who was really no friend of Nazis,

719
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: once said that he felt that the treatment of Pass

720
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: was really overly harsh, especially considering that he had come

721
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: to Scotland in good faith to try to broke her

722
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: a peace. But and and there was the other three

723
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: powers had talked about releasing him and then said they

724
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: will be willing to do so, but the Soviets always vetoted.

725
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: It's because again they just didn't like in them. I'm

726
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: guessing it required a majority vote, yeah, and required unanimous vote, yeah,

727
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: and so and so anyway, that's pretty much the end

728
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 1: of it. He died in um by hanging. He hung himself,

729
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: although again that's a mystery. So but our mystery right

730
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: now is did he go of his own volition or

731
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: did Hitler order him to go piece mission mission? And

732
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: there's there's still some debate about that. I mean, generally

733
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: the historians agree that he just wanted his own and

734
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: that Hitler was really upset about it. But there's since

735
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: there's some evidence that maybe he didn't just decide to

736
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: go on his own, or maybe he maybe it was

737
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: his idea, Hitler signed off on it, maybe Hitler ordered

738
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: him to do it. And the other thing is what

739
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: made them think that this was a good idea? Yeah,

740
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,479
Speaker 1: I mean really that. Yeah, so we're gonna tackle that first,

741
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: and then we'll tackle the death. We'll tackle of the

742
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:44,479
Speaker 1: mystery of the suicide or murder. Yeah. Second, so the theories, Uh, well,

743
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: he wanted his own and after all, this is what

744
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: hass always said, and that's what Hitler said. Uh. And

745
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: Hitler supposedly did get very furious when he heard about

746
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: this flight. It doesn't sound like some guy who knew

747
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: it advance. And plus the night that Hess landed in Scotland,

748
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: the lutwaffe bombed London very heavily. Not really something you're

749
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: gonna do if you're trying to put forward, you know,

750
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: peace feelers. Okay, so I'll play devil's gude forget on

751
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: that is that's a great way to distract from your

752
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: secret peace emissary coming to the country's too. Yeah. Yeah,

753
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: you're going to assume that the r r af is

754
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: going to be kind of tied up with that. I'm

755
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: not so interested in this one bogie over there. So that's, uh,

756
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: that's one theory that The other theory is that he

757
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: went with Hitler's permission. And actually I read an article

758
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: that was written I think in three or forty I

759
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: can't remember when, and I forgot the magazine it was

760
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: published yet. But according to this theory, just the one

761
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: that was in three parts. The article was all continuous

762
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: informent we looked at, but it was broken into three parts. Yeah, yeah,

763
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: this was I found this on a bit of outlay

764
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: and issue. Yeah, I don't I don't know how supported

765
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: this stuff was. But essentially the idea was is that

766
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: is that he had to have had Hitler's sign off

767
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: on the whole thing, because otherwise, what's the point. You

768
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: can come before you can you can talk about making

769
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: other concessions you want, but Hitler doesn't want to do that. Well,

770
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: you know you're not going to get very far. There

771
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: was an article about this. Did you want to say something, No,

772
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: I was just I was just agreeing with that. I mean,

773
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 1: that does stick out to me as it's not as

774
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: though this is one of the situations where Hess would

775
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: come back and say, listen, the Brits are being really reasonable.

776
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: You're going to kind of look like an idiot if

777
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: you don't accept it. Hitler, it would have been really

778
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: easy for Hitler to say, no, I don't want to

779
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: do any of that, thanks um, versus going with some

780
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: of you know, knowing what Hitler is willing to give,

781
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 1: that makes for a much more powerful situation. Yeah, I

782
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: definitely think that it increases your outs of success because, frankly,

783
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: although I guess there is something to be said for

784
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: if he was close enough to Hitler, it wouldn't be

785
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: very hard for him to say, so what you know,

786
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: what's the deal breaker for you? Yeah, what's important to

787
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: you to keep? And what's what are you willing to

788
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: give up? He could have just in casual conversation over

789
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,479
Speaker 1: the year that he was planning his trip, right, Yeah,

790
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: you could have done that. Yeah. Yeah. My whole thing

791
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: with Hitler had to know because I mean Hess is

792
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: quoted as saying Hitler is the party, and the party

793
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: is Hitler, and other statements that equated to him believing

794
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: that that the fear was God, that he was so

795
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: powerful and he was had to be followed that. I

796
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 1: just can't see him suddenly turning away and doing something

797
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: without the permission. But he didn't. I'm sorry to be

798
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: trampling all over this because I know we have more

799
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: information in this theory. But he didn't see it as treason, right.

800
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: He saw it as he thought like it was a

801
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: surprise party for Hitler. But but his but his personality

802
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: never supported that. They called him the brown mouse, meaning

803
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: he was meek and mild, and he was only brown

804
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: because he was wearing the brown shirt. He didn't have

805
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: any initiative. That's why for the three years prior, every

806
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: body else had been, you know, jockeying for position, and

807
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: he slowly got pushed out and he was given a

808
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: made up honorific title, like the guy had no gumption

809
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: of his own. Yeah, he was. He was definitely not

810
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: not not a hard as hard ass like like say

811
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: Hitler goring those people. He wanted to serve the fear,

812
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: He wanted to serve the cause. That's that's the impression

813
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: that But I guess my my counter to that is

814
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: it he thought he was and you know, but I

815
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: could have been completely misdirected. I am not disagreeing with

816
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 1: that at all, And I totally hear what you're saying.

817
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 1: This is one of those amicable moments. I totally hear

818
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: you're saying that. You know, but he he wouldn't have

819
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: had he wouldn't have taken that initiative. His character didn't

820
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: show the right Yeah, but it is possible that he

821
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: went went there entirely on his own and he was

822
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: just kind of delusional and actually thought he was going

823
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: to succeed. But back to the Hitler thing, where Hitler

824
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: had there is some evidence that Hitler didn't well at advance.

825
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: Has his Rudolf has his son Wolf has? Yeah. Now

826
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: I wrote a long article about this that my first

827
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: child Wolf find it's a cool names. Your last name, No,

828
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it. Well, she'll have a different last name.

829
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: We're gonna make it up. Oh anyway, Yeah, the Wolf sideways.

830
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: Sideways is a hard name to plan for it. Yeah. Yeah.

831
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: Back to mctor Wolf's evidence, Okay, uh. He says that

832
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: Hitler and hess met for four hours on May tenth,

833
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: just not just just a few hours before he left

834
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: to fly to Scotland, and Hess, as as we have said,

835
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: was pretty much sideline in German. Germany by now, and

836
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: he really wasn't involved with the war effort or with

837
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: foreign affairs, and so I'm finding it hard to believe

838
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: hit would have carved out four hours for him if

839
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: it didn't actually involve the war or foreign affairs. Oh.

840
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: I can totally tell you what they were doing. They

841
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: were watching the latest Michael Bay transformers movement. Those are

842
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 1: four hours long. That's a good point. Lord of the Rings.

843
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: They were watching the Hobbit. Yeah, that's an easy four

844
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: hour time commitment. Some time off, No, no, wait, this

845
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: was the nineteen Oh they didn't have that yet, No,

846
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: damn it. Yeah, I think it. I think it was

847
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: right around this time that Tolkien was writing Lord of

848
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: the Rings, wasn't it. Yeah? Pretty close. Yeah. Okay, So

849
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: hess was involved with foreign affairs in the war. No

850
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: he wasn't. He wasn't. He was involved with more domestic stuff.

851
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: Oh I see that. Okay, Yeah, okay, got it. Why

852
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: would hit like at the time unless it wasn't one

853
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: of those things. I mean, he's busy planning Operation Barbara

854
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: Rosa and and you know, the bombing of London and

855
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: everything else. And we're saying Hitler didn't have any kind

856
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: of love for friends. Oh no, No, I mean he did.

857
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure, but I don't know that he would have

858
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: had four hours to spend with Hess just hanging out

859
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: when there was so much more. He's had a lot

860
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 1: of work to do, a lot of politicking to do.

861
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: You take twenty minutes and you hang out with your

862
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: buddy and you have a drink. You don't take four hours. Yeah.

863
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: I get where this is. This doesn't prove anything, but

864
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: but it's interesting and it's Uh. The next thing is

865
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: as you mentioned us, As we mentioned earlier, Karl Heinz Pinch,

866
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: the adjutant to deliver the letter together, who was captured.

867
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: They and a Storian came across what was his name?

868
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 1: Mattias discovered this document in the Russian State Archives, written

869
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: by Pinch, was handwritten, and according to what he said

870
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: about the encounter with Hitler, Pinch said it quote Hitler

871
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: calmly listened to my report and just missed me without

872
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: comment unquote. Yeah. Pinch said that Hitler had known about

873
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: the flight plan for a long time and so that

874
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: that was the impression that he had. So when where

875
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: did the maddest hell story come from? Uh? You know,

876
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that might have been cooked up to reassure

877
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: the Japanese and the Italians that Hitler wasn't trying to

878
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: stab him in the back by making peace with Britain.

879
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: And I think that's why has was loyal to the

880
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: loyal to the end and always settle along that it

881
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: was his idea. His family also never got any kind

882
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: of retribution from the Nazi Party. They never never win

883
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: after him. That's the other thing is that, Yeah, a

884
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: lot of people surrounding Hess, even like his astrologer and

885
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: all those people. A fact, all kinds of astrologers were

886
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: rounded up and arrested because that was was really into

887
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: that he was into astrology and all that stuff. Yeah,

888
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I'm reading my signs all the time.

889
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 1: So all kinds of people suffered retaliation except for Hess's family. Actually,

890
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: Hitler personally intervened to make sure that nothing happened to them. Yeah. Yeah,

891
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: that's hard. Again, you know, it's it's hard if you're

892
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: really good friends with somebody, you don't necessarily want to

893
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: see their wife and kids heart just because he made

894
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: a bad choice. But I don't know that Hitler necessarily

895
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: strikes me as that kind of guy. Yeah. Again, his

896
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: character didn't reflect that kind of behavior that we know of. Yeah, yeah,

897
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: but I don't know. It could be that that just

898
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,959
Speaker 1: you know, pastimes and all that. You know, I'm gonna

899
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: me to look after his family. It might just be that.

900
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: So so none of this definitively proves anything, although bites

901
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: document is is pretty interesting. Well, it came out in

902
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: they printed that with Der Spiegel. That came out in

903
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven in an article in Der Spiegel. Yeah,

904
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: we've talked about that Mexic. Okay, so it's like what

905
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: his journal or something that they found. I think it

906
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: was more on the lines of a confession to the Russians.

907
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: It was it was they so the Russians used to

908
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: like to make people right, these long confessions denouncing everything. Yeah,

909
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: but that's my problem with it. Well, but that's that's

910
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: it because there if you ever read any of them,

911
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: they're always crazy long, and they always have a very

912
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: set style and certain verbiaginum. And it's I believe this

913
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: falls right to that category. Yeah, it's it's almost as

914
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: if they told the guy what to write. You know,

915
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: they might have Well, it doesn't using the same book. Yeah,

916
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that everything in there was a lie,

917
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: but but you base it on the truth. Yeah. Anyway,

918
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: after the war, some other people gave you talked about

919
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: various things. And then there were two other high ranking

920
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: Nazi Party members hanging with Hitler at that time when

921
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: he received the letter in the news that has had

922
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: left to go to Scotland, and they said that Hitler

923
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: wasn't angry at all. Hitler's vallet said after the war

924
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: that Hitler's behavior at the time indicated to him that

925
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: he must have done advance. He too said Hitler wasn't

926
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: upset at all. Who did you say that too? That

927
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: was his valet he had. I don't know if it

928
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: was a reporter or who he said it to. All

929
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: of it he said that after the war, um the

930
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: valet did say he was actually afraid to ask Hitler

931
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: if he had known ahead of time. He didn't ask him,

932
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: but he said his behavior just indicated to him that

933
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: Hitler was not mad. So here's my other problem with

934
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: the with this, with this theory in particular that Hitler

935
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: knew is we talked I started to talk about this earlier.

936
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: Is the concessions of peace that he was supposedly willing

937
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: to give Germany had just spent the last two years

938
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: marching south through uh Norway and then into France, and

939
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: they would have kept going. No, not nor what's um,

940
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: what's the other one? Just north of France? I can't

941
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: thank you Netherland in Belgium, that's the That's where I

942
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: got the end. But they had spent two years working

943
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,359
Speaker 1: their way south through all of that, and they would

944
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: have kept going into Spain if Franco hadn't been just

945
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: jerking them around the whole time and saying yes, no, yes,

946
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: no games. But my point is, if they've just spent

947
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: all that time and effort to secure it, they've wiped

948
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: out the local governments, they've installed all their own people,

949
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: why would they then suddenly say, you know what does leave,

950
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: It's cool, you can have it at We just wanted

951
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: to check the place out. That doesn't make any sense

952
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: from well, from a wartime perspective to me. You know,

953
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: I don't know that they expected to occupy all of

954
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: France forever. They did intended to keep assassin Lorraine even

955
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: but they were going to withdraw from the rest of

956
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: it um so that they didn't really need to be

957
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: running France. I mean, they could have if they had

958
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: that their their chunk of Poland and other parts of

959
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe, that was all they really needed. Well, but

960
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: they also what they would do those like in in France,

961
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: they moved in and they put in their own people.

962
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: And then eventually when they took over all of France,

963
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,479
Speaker 1: it's the the Vichy government, the Vicy government. Yeah, they

964
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: those guys were technically still running the country, but they

965
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: knew that they had to keep the Germans happy. And

966
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: the Germans did this like, you can live and do

967
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: what we say, or we can kill you and put

968
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 1: our own people in, which is way easier. And that's

969
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: what they did. So why would they do all of that?

970
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: You know, it might be that some of this stuff

971
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: was misreported. It might it might have been basically, we're

972
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: not going to withdraw from Western Europe, but we will

973
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 1: leave you alone. We'll buy will buy your your munition supply,

974
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: you know, for the sake of your economy, and we'll

975
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: leave your overseas possessions alone, you know. And so that

976
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: might have been all the concessions they actually plan to make.

977
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't plan for the peace to happen, right,

978
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: You install your government and you say Okay, we're good here,

979
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: but you know how valuable this is to us, and

980
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: we are so committed to peace that we are willing

981
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: to give you this thing that obviously we've fought a

982
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: lot for. So you understand how much we're willing to

983
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: give up for peace. That's how much we wanted. Right

984
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: And if they say no, you've got your thing, you're covered.

985
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: It's fine. You still have your country there that you've

986
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: taken over. If they say yes, great, you've got this

987
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 1: huge piece of leverage to say great, you're gonna give

988
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: us pretty much the rest of Europe. Yeah, it's just

989
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: there's there's sunk cost for what they did was so large.

990
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: It's just so much, such a such a thing to

991
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: walk away from. They didn't really expand huge resources taking

992
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: over France. It was actually a pretty quick thing. Well,

993
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: but then they spent a bunch of money, you know,

994
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: bomb in Britain and then defending France. I mean a

995
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: lot of munitions. And maybe maybe what I'm responding to

996
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: is more what happened after that, for all everything that

997
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: took place, But it just seems like it was such

998
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: a big friggan investment. I don't think. I don't I

999
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: just don't. I don't think so, okay, I mean, in

1000
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: my mind, you know, strategically, it makes a lot more

1001
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: sense to be willing to give up something that is

1002
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: appears to be very valuable to you that you may

1003
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: or may not actually care about in order to be

1004
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: able to leverage that to get you more things that

1005
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: you actually do care about in the future. It could

1006
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: be I don't know, maybe a horrible I don't know.

1007
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: That means I'm the guy who will never back down. Nope,

1008
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: I made it here, and I'm the one who will

1009
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: be like, oh, yeah, it totally looks like I care

1010
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: about this jewelry. You can have it, but I'm going

1011
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: to take your first child. Devon for everybody who doesn't know,

1012
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: just made the creepiest big eye face at me never

1013
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: having children. Now, now I'm kind of leaning towards Hitler

1014
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: New Yeah, I think, so are there I mean, are

1015
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 1: there any other choices? Is it just the two? Kind

1016
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: of those two? That's that's the question that everybody's been

1017
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: wondering for all these decades, and it really is a

1018
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: historical kind of mystery. And then, of course my other

1019
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: question was, how could they have thought this was gonna work.

1020
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: How could they have thought this is gonna be a

1021
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: good idea? And that's what gets this to the whole

1022
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: M I sixth ankle Oh, I thought it was because

1023
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: Hitler was a vegetarian. It might have been that to

1024
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: us was a vegetarian also, he was he was like

1025
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: really new age and all that plants are bad for you. Yeah.

1026
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: But the theory about m I six is is that

1027
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 1: Hitler and the Germans were putting out some feelers towards

1028
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,760
Speaker 1: influential Britishers in the early nineteen forty one on nineteen

1029
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: regarding peace negotiations. And of course there was the Anglo

1030
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 1: German Friendship Society or whatever that was called. Yeah, yeah,

1031
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: right off the tone, Yeah, And so they were there

1032
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 1: was just so this like aristocracy to aristocracy, you know,

1033
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: talking back and forth. And Germany eventually proposed a meeting

1034
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: on neutral ground, and that was rejected by the British,

1035
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: as the story goes, and so they finally offered to

1036
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: send a delicate to England, and they proposed a guy

1037
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: named Ernst William Bull as a delicate and there was

1038
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: no response from England about this. Yeah, I'm guessing that

1039
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: because they were busy dealing with the Luthwaffa. Yeah, that's

1040
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: probably it, but they were doing a good job of

1041
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: playing it hard to get Eventually Hitler. They were getting

1042
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: kind of nervous about this because this is actually kind

1043
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: of important to Hitler, I think, to actually not have

1044
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,720
Speaker 1: that second front with Britain when he went after the Russians.

1045
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: So Hitler came up with the idea of sending a

1046
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 1: really big Nazi to England, somebody with a lot of stature,

1047
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: somebody who was close to Hitler, who could readibly speak

1048
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: for Hitler. And who else would that be? Rudolf Hess?

1049
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't he wasn't really important to the

1050
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 1: war effort, and he was highly expendable actually, all things considered,

1051
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: it was kind of Yeah. Obviously the war continued on

1052
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: without him, without a hitch quite well, yeah, for a

1053
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: number of years at least he actually has. Yeah. Hess

1054
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: was not really violent. I don't think he was really

1055
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: into the whole war thing. No, he was just supporting

1056
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: the cause. Yeah, I know that well. And and and

1057
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: you know the Germany and Germany of the sense had

1058
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: a good reason to feel some grievance after the way

1059
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: they've been treated after World War One. I'm not saying

1060
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: they were justified and anything, No, but they I can

1061
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: I understand why there was a lot of angry Germans

1062
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: after World War One. Definitely. Yeah, what actually was happening

1063
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: is apparently, so the theory goes, and there was a

1064
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: little evidence to support this, we're not going to find

1065
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: out for a little while, but they were actually negotiating

1066
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 1: with the British Secret Service and not members of the

1067
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: royal family or the British aristocracy like they thought they were.

1068
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: It was a game, it was it was rude, it

1069
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: was a setup. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like they just

1070
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: wanted to get their hands on a high ranking Nazi

1071
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: and just interrogate the heck out of them, which is

1072
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 1: probably what they did. Yeah. The only the only qualm

1073
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: with that I have with this, and it's it stems

1074
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: back to that friendship society. The things that I have

1075
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: read are that as soon as war broke out, the

1076
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 1: friendship society was dissolved. That's what I heard too. We're yeah,

1077
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: we're not friends anymore. You like blew up my house

1078
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: and stuff, So no, we're not friends. Absolutely, Well, obviously

1079
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:38,919
Speaker 1: you're not going to be overt, but there was still

1080
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: context between the British aristocracy and the German aristocracy. When

1081
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: if you have a personal friendship with somebody and they're saying, dude,

1082
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but my fear blew your house up, They're

1083
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: not going to be like, yeah, I know you ordered

1084
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: the bombs. You're gonna say, oh, thank you, I'm so sorry,

1085
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: you know. But also it's underground. You know, it's very

1086
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: easy to even if it had been totally dissolve, it

1087
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: would be very easy for a member of m I

1088
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: six to say, oh no, no, I'm part of this thing.

1089
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: I know that you think that we're dissolved, but just kidding,

1090
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: we're still underground. So that's a good point. I hadn't

1091
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: thought about the clandestine side of the society still. So

1092
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 1: that's why you need to meet us in Scotland, not

1093
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: you know, at Scotland Yard or London Proper or you know,

1094
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: anything like that, and don't follow the loot swop into town.

1095
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: Yeah you don't want to do that. Let's go talk

1096
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: about this, so anyway, do you guys have any favorite

1097
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: theories there? I think we new Hitler didn't know they

1098
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 1: were killing I think he did. I know that has

1099
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: just stood by that he did it independently, but I

1100
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: just I can't buy it. Yeah, I think Hitler knew,

1101
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: but I also do give some credence. I wouldn't It

1102
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me to find out that my six had

1103
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: something to do with it too. The Bridge did pulled

1104
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: off a lot of ingenious plans. They really would have

1105
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: been a good one. Yeah, they did some amazing stuff. Fact,

1106
00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: there was another one that I stumbled across. I won't

1107
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: mention it now in the course of my research. Is

1108
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: this That's another interesting little mystery. We'll talk about that.

1109
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: You know, they were really crafty, they were really good. Well,

1110
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: when your backs against the wall, you do whatever it takes. Yeah,

1111
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: I know. They did a great job of turning all

1112
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: the all the German agents against each other against Germany too.

1113
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: They totally controlled their entire network in England. I also

1114
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: think that part of it though, is that, like we said,

1115
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: I was saying before, is that the one thing I

1116
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: like about the Germans is they're just it's this and

1117
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: we're going to hear and how could you think it

1118
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: would be anything else? And are like, uh, nobody else

1119
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: thinks that way, dude, but we'll totally use it against you.

1120
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, the Germans in World War Two actually

1121
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: did not practice good trade craft when he was buying,

1122
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: not at all. Yeah. Oh, anyway, so so yeah, so

1123
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that they wouldn't have done it Unlessen received

1124
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: encouragement from Britain, and that I think probably came from

1125
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: m I six. Might have come from saying members of

1126
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: the aristocracy, but I think it probably came from m

1127
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: I six. Yeah, let's get on to our other mystery,

1128
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: which is how he died. He died in August nine

1129
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: seven and spend out prison. Cause of death was suicide

1130
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: by asphyxiation. The prison had like that garden. It had

1131
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: like a courtyard in the middle of the garden, and

1132
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: it had a small summer house that has used as

1133
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: a reading room. Oh that's nice. I mean it's nice

1134
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: to think, right, you kind of think, well, he was

1135
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: in jail for a really, really long time. He just

1136
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: had to sit in his cell the whole time. But

1137
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: I guess there was this whole entire complex that he

1138
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: was nearly one in. Yeah, so it's nice to know

1139
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: that they gave him a little place where he could

1140
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: read and stuff. I think that as the years went by,

1141
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: they got more relaxed. You know, at first it was

1142
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: very very stern, very regimented. You can only be visited

1143
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,439
Speaker 1: for like thirty minutes a month by anybody. Of course,

1144
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: the guards had to be present, and he couldn't talk

1145
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: about a whole list of topics. And that eventually that

1146
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: got relaxed somewhat, you would assume. Yeah, But anyway, back

1147
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: to his death. He uh took an electrical extension cord

1148
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: and wrapped one end around a window latch in the

1149
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: summer house and then the other around his neck, and

1150
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: he hung himself. That doesn't sound pleasant or easy, It doesn't. Yeah,

1151
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: he was ninety three years old. He liked to be

1152
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: a ripe old age. That's and that is exactly where

1153
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: the conspiracy comes from. Is why does a man at

1154
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: the age of nine three suddenly decide that he's got

1155
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: to take his own I understand it. I totally, I

1156
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: totally get this, and I don't think that this is

1157
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: a conspiracy in any way, shape or form, but I

1158
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: know that's where it comes from. Weight he was super old.

1159
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: Why would he do that at this point? Yeah, Well

1160
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: he did that. There there was one thing going on.

1161
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: His lawyer and his family had been campaigning for a

1162
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: long time for him to get released, because everybody else

1163
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: has been released. I mean, and several of them actually

1164
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: we had life sentences and they were released early. Has

1165
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: for everything he did. He did do some bad things,

1166
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: but he wasn't as nearly as monstrous as some of

1167
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: those other guys were, especially seeing as how he was

1168
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: out of the war for four years, he couldn't have

1169
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: been involved in all of that other stuff. Yeah. But

1170
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is every time the issue

1171
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: came up to Sylviet's, as I said previously, always videoed

1172
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,439
Speaker 1: the idea and they might have still been mad about Barbarossa,

1173
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: and maybe they figured Hess was part of the planning

1174
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: of that. I'm not sure that he was. Probably not.

1175
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I know he was aware of it, but

1176
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: awareness is not responsibility. Yeah. But the thing about the

1177
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: Sylvius too is the Russians are still mad at us

1178
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: over World War Two. They really are. I mean, then

1179
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 1: we let them bleed for years before we finally did

1180
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: something about it. And think I think that some of

1181
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: them at least don't really like us, you know. Yeah,

1182
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: So I'm not totally surprised that the sylviet has had

1183
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: a grudge against him. But also SPANDO was located in

1184
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: West Berlin, which gave the Sylviets a really nice opportunity

1185
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: to send spies in for a looxie. Some of those

1186
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: guards maybe weren't just straight up guards. Yeah, that's kind

1187
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: of a shame to keep one well West Berlin, and

1188
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: they wanted to actually be able to go in and

1189
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: look around and gather intelligence. And so being able to

1190
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: being able to send your personnel to spandau in the

1191
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: commune from the border to the prison, they could take

1192
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 1: a diversion and look around, is that what you're getting

1193
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: in and look around, maybe maybe pick up stuff from spies,

1194
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: from dead drops, things like that. Yeah, and I when

1195
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: you said that, I took it as something at the prison,

1196
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: which it makes sense. But that makes a whole lot

1197
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: more sense, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, so they could

1198
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: have it could have been totally just for espionage. And

1199
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of a shame to keep this one guy

1200
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: locked up for twenty one extra years. But he was

1201
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: a tool at that point. Yeah, and so that match

1202
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: that might be one of the reasons why they kept

1203
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: insisting that did not be released. Things began to change

1204
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 1: in Night seven. Michail Robachov was in power relationship were

1205
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: thawing out a little bit between the East and the West,

1206
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: and the Sylviets began to express a bit more I guess,

1207
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: receptivity to the idea of letting Hess go. And there

1208
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: was a report published again in their Spiegel in April

1209
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven that said Garbagehov was now taking the

1210
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: view that releasing Hess would be seeing worldwide as a

1211
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: quote gesture of humanity unquote. Now I'm sure that I'm

1212
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: sure that that remark was read by everybody in the British,

1213
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: French and American intelligence services UM, and some people believe

1214
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: this might have set off alarm bells in the British

1215
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 1: Secret Service. Yeah why why, Well, we'll get to that

1216
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,919
Speaker 1: in a sect. But from Hess this point of view,

1217
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: if Russia is finally going to agree to let you go,

1218
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: he might have actually been just a few weeks or

1219
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: months from freedom, and even though he didn't have a

1220
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: hell of a lot longer to live. You know, if

1221
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: you've been locked up all those years, wouldn't getting out

1222
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: at least and being free to look around and take

1223
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: in the world and you know all that stuff, wouldn't

1224
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: that be a worthwhile thing? Do you think he knew

1225
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: though that he was going to get out, that it

1226
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: was possible that he was going to get out, or

1227
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: I mean, would that necessarily have been communicated to him?

1228
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: Is there any proof that it was communicated to him.

1229
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: He did get to read the papers and stuff, but

1230
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if the stuff that was about him

1231
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: or I mean they did. Yeah, so he might not

1232
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: have found out, but he was by this time. He

1233
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: for years he didn't have any any visits from his fan,

1234
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: but he started having regular visits from his family, So

1235
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that sometimes I think it's reasonable to assume

1236
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: that he did know. Yeah, I think that's sometime between

1237
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: April and August, he probably had at least want to

1238
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: visit from his lawyer and his family, and they probably

1239
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: and they probably said that the hey, good news, he

1240
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: might be getting out, and even a month of freedom

1241
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: after forty years of prison would be the best month ever.

1242
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 1: Even if all you could do was get pushed around

1243
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: in a wheelchair by your family, at least you're with

1244
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: your family and not that freaking prison anymore. I don't know.

1245
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: You think there's the fear of being released, that's a

1246
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: that's a common thing. I think there's a little bit

1247
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: of the fear of being released. There's a bit of

1248
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: the fear of perception, not knowing how people will react

1249
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,959
Speaker 1: to you, to going to going home to a place

1250
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: where people think that you are a traitor, that you're

1251
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: a monster, being labeled as a Nazi who you know,

1252
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: committed crimes against humanity, whether you were convicted of that

1253
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 1: or not. I mean, I think there's a lot of things.

1254
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's possible. I guess this This

1255
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: would be for the he committed suicide argument, that not

1256
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: only is there the he lost the will to live,

1257
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: it's also it does coincide with the fact that he

1258
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: might have the possibility of getting out, and that could

1259
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: be a really, really scary thing to him. He could

1260
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: have just decided no, I want don't want to Yeah,

1261
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: And there's no way to keep yourself right. You can't

1262
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,439
Speaker 1: just be like, I'm just gonna stay in jail, thanks though,

1263
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to hold on to the bars and you

1264
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 1: can't drag me out. Yeah, you can't say that, because

1265
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: that works so well for not going here, So that

1266
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that could have been a It

1267
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: is possible. I mean, people do lose the will to live,

1268
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,959
Speaker 1: you know, and especially he was pretty feeble by this time.

1269
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: Maybe he just decided to just uh and he had

1270
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: committed an attempted suicide in the past when he was younger. Yeah,

1271
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 1: and so and uh so, maybe he just felt like,

1272
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: even if I get out, now, what kind of a

1273
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: life am I going to have? I can't I can

1274
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: barely even walk, you know, because he was very, very

1275
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: frail at that point. You would be right, yeah, yeah, again,

1276
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: I think there is something to be said for saying

1277
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: he doesn't know what he's coming to. You know, he

1278
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: probably thinks he's labeled as a traitor. He's gonna have

1279
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 1: a villains welcome. He never nobody's gonna love him, He's

1280
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: going to be hated. I mean, I mean, I agree,

1281
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: probably that wouldn't be the reception. Probably somebody would say, oh,

1282
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: look an old man, right. They wouldn't say, oh, that's

1283
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: he's the one who because they're also really wasn't very

1284
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: much loved for the Nazi Party at that point in Germany.

1285
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I guess, well, there are a

1286
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: lot of you can understand that fear, Well, yeah, there's that.

1287
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: I think I think that the positives outweighed the negatives.

1288
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: It's also possible maybe he's maybe he didn't know because

1289
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 1: the family wasn't necessarily allowed to talk about just anything

1290
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: with him. Yeah, that's true. Again, there was there were

1291
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: definitely restrictions. Well back to the murder theory though, wolf

1292
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 1: Hess mentioned before his son who was just going to

1293
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: name her a child for Yeah, he laid out some

1294
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: reasons for suspicion. Number one, he did say his last

1295
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: visit with his father that Hess was so weak and

1296
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: frail they couldn't walk without a cane on one side

1297
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: and a guard on the other side supporting him. So

1298
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: how could he have managed to actually hang himself? I mean,

1299
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: I guess it's not. It's you step off a thing. Yeah.

1300
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 1: That sounds morbid and horrible, I know, but I've had

1301
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: the very I thought about the same thing. Is that there,

1302
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: and you've tossed the cord until he gets up there

1303
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 1: and you're tying on and you just pull it down

1304
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: and then you tie a thing and you I mean,

1305
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 1: it's it's it's completely possible to do with very little effort. Yeah.

1306
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's as if he climbed a ten foot

1307
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 1: spire and then leapt off of it. Yeah, now I

1308
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 1: think it's it's probably it is possible. That's just what

1309
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: he says. He that's why he thinks he didn't commit suicide.

1310
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: But the family also got the body after this, and

1311
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: they had a second autopsy done, and there the reports

1312
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 1: from this one noted ligature marks around the neck that

1313
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: were horizontal across the neck, which is like more consistent

1314
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 1: with being drawled by somebody than hanging, because obviously they're

1315
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: going to go like across and then up past your

1316
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: jaw and your ears and all that stuff. And yeah,

1317
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: so it looks like somebody might have actually choked him

1318
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 1: to death. Yeah. Uh. And there were supposedly two strangers

1319
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 1: in American uniforms that were pressed at the side of

1320
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: Hess's hanging. Uh. There was a teenage medical orderly named Abdullah.

1321
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: I don't not sure how to pronounce this last name.

1322
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: We'll go with that, Yeah, okay, Abdulla will just call

1323
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: him Abdullah. Uh. He worked a spand out for he'd

1324
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: been working there for I don't know seven or eight years.

1325
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: Looking after Hess. Abdullah wrote in an affidavit at that quote.

1326
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: When I arrived at the Garden summer House, I found

1327
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: a scene looking as though a wrestling match had taken

1328
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 1: place ellipse, he lips the ground was churned up, and

1329
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: the chair in which has usually sat on the ground

1330
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: or sat lay on the ground a considerable distance from

1331
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: its usual location unquote. And then you note that those

1332
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 1: two strangers, and he said that was unusual because contact

1333
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: with Hess was strictly forbidden. If you're one of the guards,

1334
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 1: that's one thing, but unless you have a reason to

1335
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: be in contact with Hess a big note. So it

1336
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: was strange that those two were there. Oh wait, go ahead,

1337
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: keep going. At this time August seven, the US guards

1338
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 1: were in charge of in the prison. Again, it varied

1339
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: from French, US, British, Russian. I guess that's the theory

1340
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 1: of vols because wolf Hess believes that it was the

1341
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 1: British Secret Service that murdered his dad. And I guess

1342
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 1: his theory is that it wouldn't stink quite so bad.

1343
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: It hasn't died while the Americans were in charge of

1344
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: guarding him. Whether that's and that so he believes that

1345
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 1: those two strangers were actually British. Yes, why would Why would?

1346
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 1: Why did the Brits dock him off? That's this is

1347
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 1: the thing that This is my biggest problem with I

1348
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: don't understand why they would do it, particularly because weren't

1349
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: the Brits one of the ones that said no, let

1350
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,799
Speaker 1: him go? Yeah, it was only the Soviets who wouldn't

1351
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,600
Speaker 1: who would not agree to although I guess on the

1352
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,720
Speaker 1: other hand, the Brits may have been saying, yeah, let

1353
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:55,680
Speaker 1: him go, so we can murder him and as at home,

1354
01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, y yeah, well, it was a

1355
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: bet for them they could easily play the play the

1356
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: good cop and say you have knowing that the Soviets

1357
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 1: are always going to be but there's no harm in saying, hey, yeah,

1358
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: we're open at that. Yeah. Yeah, they might have changed

1359
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 1: if the Sylviets and and and so, since we did

1360
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: have that change in in the sort of Soviet posture, Well,

1361
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: what's the policy. Here's a question, what's the policy of

1362
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 1: torture for prisoners of war at that time in the

1363
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: win World War two? Torture? Yeah, I believe it was

1364
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: not sanction Yeah, there's so so I guess the that

1365
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: could be not to jump ahead or anything, but that

1366
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 1: could be a reason that the Brits would want to

1367
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 1: murder hess Is if they thought, if they were scared

1368
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,639
Speaker 1: that he might come out with his story of what

1369
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:46,440
Speaker 1: they did to him for four years he was waterboarded

1370
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: or something something, you know, and tortured brutally. That might be,

1371
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 1: and they were trying to keep in quiet. But I

1372
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: but you know, on the flip side, at probably if

1373
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 1: he was going to say something, he would have said something, right,

1374
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: I think that, yeah, that they wanted to keep money

1375
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: at their control. So but the question is is what

1376
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: was it that you know, what was the big secret

1377
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: he was sitting on? So he couldn't talk about the

1378
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: war or the peace mission that he went on. Everything

1379
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 1: was carefully supervised. The theory is that one theory is

1380
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: that Winston Churchill kept the war going with Germany when

1381
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't necessary and a lot of a lot of

1382
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: people died, and so that was that would have been

1383
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: like a huge scandal. That's one of that's one of

1384
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: the things that both has things that I think there

1385
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:32,719
Speaker 1: might be another reason. I mean, that's a good Yeah,

1386
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: that would upset a lot of people. You would want

1387
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 1: to keep although it's kind of ancient history by this

1388
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: point in time, right, because when did Churchill time? Oh god,

1389
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: it wasn't eighties, I think, so you would have been

1390
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 1: dead by then, so it wouldn't have really, although you

1391
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: don't want to sully the memory of No, I've actually

1392
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: just started a search for a good Churchill book because

1393
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,719
Speaker 1: I want to read up anymore, because I don't think

1394
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: he was really weird. Interestingly, I was intriguing, he was.

1395
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: He was amazing. Actually, I mean he was a quirky

1396
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 1: little guy, but there was some serious brain power going. Yeah, well,

1397
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 1: I guess that. You know, if if there was a

1398
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 1: revelation like that, there would be some serious precedent for

1399
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 1: reparations right to families, it would at least make the

1400
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: Brits look not super great. Well, yes, and no, I mean,

1401
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 1: because here's the here's the deal. Is that, like it

1402
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 1: would have saved some British lives. But at the same time,

1403
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: is it really a great idea to allow the Nazis

1404
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: to consolidate power on the continent? Right? No, exactly, I

1405
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: mean exactly. I mean he might have peace. Now, that

1406
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're not going to come after you later.

1407
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:39,719
Speaker 1: But as I was saying, it gives it just gives

1408
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: that tacit consent everything that they're doing. You take a break,

1409
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:45,559
Speaker 1: you recover, and then you go after it some more.

1410
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: But here's here's my thing. Here's my issue with the

1411
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:53,680
Speaker 1: scene of his suicide. Let's stop. I know, I want

1412
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: to circle back for a second. So he uh. The

1413
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 1: description of the scene is that it looked like a

1414
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: wrestling match. It happened. The ground is turned up and

1415
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: the chair is knocked over and far away. Well, there's

1416
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 1: a couple of things that can that can explain this.

1417
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: It could have been that somebody ran in seeing him

1418
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 1: hanging there and flung the furniture out of the way

1419
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: to try to get to him, to keep him from hanging,

1420
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: from dying. It's also entirely possible. I don't I've never

1421
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 1: seen an image of this room, and we never will

1422
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 1: because the place has been destroyed. That this hook and

1423
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 1: where he was at, he may not have been truly hanging.

1424
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 1: There are examples of people, I don't think. So it

1425
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 1: could have been that he was, you know, just a

1426
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,600
Speaker 1: little bit at an incline, and so when he was

1427
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,719
Speaker 1: in the death throws, his feet are going there, churning

1428
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: up the dirt around him. He was flopping around. That's

1429
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 1: going to give that false impression of a struggle between

1430
01:12:56,120 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 1: multiple people when really it's his body in the death sposums. Yeah. Well,

1431
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 1: and here's the other thing too, is that these were

1432
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 1: two actual to British says guys. It would be in

1433
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: really fit shape. And two guys guys one very frail

1434
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: nine year old man. There's not going to be a

1435
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 1: huge death struggle. Yeah. Well, yeah, he probably didn't have

1436
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, is nazi jiu jitsu skills anymore? And I mean,

1437
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 1: frankly could have been as simple as he missed a

1438
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: couple of times with the power chord. Right, you know,

1439
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: you've got the heavier end on the power cord. You

1440
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 1: kind of toss it up and it falls, and then

1441
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: you drag it back and you toss it up and

1442
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 1: it falls and walking back stumbling, you know. Yeah, I

1443
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 1: mean there's a million ways. That's why I look at this.

1444
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 1: This doesn't doesn't sound affaious to me at all. Very

1445
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 1: very few things sound affaious to use to its true Well,

1446
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 1: just love, I am captain rational. Okay, Well, there are

1447
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,639
Speaker 1: some other interesting little tidbits though. Here, um Lieutenant Colonel

1448
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 1: Eugene Bird he was common dott. It's banned out prison

1449
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: from the nineteen six four seventy one. Okay, So like

1450
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 1: what's that command You know, he's like the warden. Ok. Yeah, yeah,

1451
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 1: that's what I was looking for. Yeah. I guess maybe

1452
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,560
Speaker 1: they thought they saw it as more like and I

1453
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 1: guess you have a warden in a prison, but in

1454
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 1: a pow camp there's always a commandant military installations. Yeah, yeah,

1455
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 1: I guess so. But he got to know No Rudolph

1456
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 1: Hess very well. I actually they actually became friends and

1457
01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 1: they started working on a collaboration on a book about

1458
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 1: Hess and his peace flight. And I thought he wasn't

1459
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: allowed to talk about that. Well, apparently there's some exception,

1460
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: and maybe it was kind of surreptitious, I think. Yeah.

1461
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 1: But when Bird superiors got wind of this in March

1462
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 1: ninety one, Bird was placed under house arrest and he

1463
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 1: was interrogated and extensively. He wrote about it later. He

1464
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: was eventually forced to resign. And you gotta wonder, what's

1465
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 1: the big secret here? What's the big deal? I mean,

1466
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 1: I would think that would be a positive thing if

1467
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 1: Hess wants to tell his story. What's wrong with that? Um?

1468
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: And Bird eventually did publish a book called The Loneliest

1469
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 1: Man in the World about Hess. When did the in

1470
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: the U S? When did the ruling come down that

1471
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 1: prisoners couldn't make money from anything related to their acts.

1472
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I don't.

1473
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 1: I know that was a ruling that came down. I

1474
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 1: think it was a law that was passed right right.

1475
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,560
Speaker 1: The point though, is that I just wonder if it

1476
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:19,479
Speaker 1: was kind of that had set a general precedent among

1477
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 1: the worldwide audience of oh wait, you're a Nazi. You

1478
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 1: shouldn't be able to commemorate yourself in this way. Do

1479
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? You talking about him writing

1480
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: a book? Yeah, well, you know, potentially making some cash

1481
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 1: off of it. I don't think the plan was so that.

1482
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were really going to make

1483
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: any cash out of the deal. But people, what was

1484
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 1: nobody writes a book to write a book? Well, that's true,

1485
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 1: but what was what was hes going to spend the

1486
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 1: money on? Anyway he was in prison, he would he

1487
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 1: could have bequeathed it to his relatives. He could have

1488
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:55,679
Speaker 1: in a way made some money to benefit people he knew.

1489
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering if that's the reason that they

1490
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 1: put those squash on it. There were other high ranking

1491
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: Nazis who wrote memoirs after their release from prison. Right

1492
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 1: probably made money off after their release from prison. I

1493
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 1: just I just think that it would have I mean,

1494
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 1: they would have said that, right, if they had arrested Bird,

1495
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 1: they would have come out publicly and they would have said, listen,

1496
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:21,759
Speaker 1: there's this law that we have that he was breaking.

1497
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 1: I don't know that there was that's in the US. Okay, well,

1498
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: but you know that you would say, listen, this guy

1499
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 1: was helping this war criminal write a book and we

1500
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:36,680
Speaker 1: don't think that's right. That's why I arrested him. You

1501
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:39,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't say, but don't worry about it. No nothing to

1502
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,799
Speaker 1: see here, people, that's fine, and keep it under wraps.

1503
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 1: It's almost as if you've never watched a governmental body

1504
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:50,560
Speaker 1: do that kind of weirdness before. Devon. They do that

1505
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 1: all the time. I live in America. We do not

1506
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 1: do that, except for all the time. This is America

1507
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:07,200
Speaker 1: Freedom Forward. We're talking about Bird. Bird actually did say

1508
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:12,719
Speaker 1: that he thought, no, not in the Eagle. I'm sorry,

1509
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 1: we're going away off fact here. Okay, oh yeah, we

1510
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,680
Speaker 1: are back to Bird. Though he did publicly say that

1511
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 1: he thought that might have been murdered. Again, of course

1512
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: he did. Yeah, I mean, the two other men were

1513
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: serving life sentences in Spandau were released early in the

1514
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, believe or not because they were old and six,

1515
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 1: so for humanitarian reasons. By the mid eighties, Rudolfs was

1516
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 1: also pretty old and sick. So why wasn't he let

1517
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: go again? It seems to me the reason was to

1518
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 1: keep him quiet about something. I can't see any other reason.

1519
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 1: I mean, all kinds of people were saying that he

1520
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 1: should be let go. He probably had things about British

1521
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:52,679
Speaker 1: cuisine maybe, yeah, maybe that it's probably what it was. Yeah,

1522
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: he said he was awful. Yeah, yeah, you can't get

1523
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:59,680
Speaker 1: away with that baked beans for breakfast. What he must Yeah,

1524
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 1: he must pronounced which mitchett, And that's probably what it is.

1525
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 1: So I've already said that I don't think the scandal

1526
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 1: was Winston Churchill refusing to make peace, but there might

1527
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 1: have been another reason. Yeah. Well, it has been said

1528
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: there were members of the royal family who were sympathetic

1529
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,639
Speaker 1: to Germany, and it could it be that there actually

1530
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 1: were discussions between the aristocracy and the Germans that the

1531
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,599
Speaker 1: that the British Secret Service hadn't been aware of until

1532
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: after the fact perhaps or maybe even at the time

1533
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:30,719
Speaker 1: and Hass was it at Hess was knowledgeable about these things,

1534
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 1: and depending on what was said and who said it, um,

1535
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,120
Speaker 1: that might be a secret worth keeping. I can't think

1536
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 1: of any other reason to keep this guy locked up

1537
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 1: for all these years. But then that's a reason to

1538
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 1: kill him if he was about to get let out.

1539
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, I really I understand the fear of

1540
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:57,639
Speaker 1: scandal and embarrassment, but I I also just wonder how

1541
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:01,839
Speaker 1: much credence people are gonna give to a convicted Nazi

1542
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: war criminal for most of his life in jail, and

1543
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 1: he was not a convicted war criminal, yeah he was. No,

1544
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:11,519
Speaker 1: he was convicted of crimes against peace, but he was

1545
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:15,560
Speaker 1: he was. He was not convicted of war crimes or

1546
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 1: crimes against humanity. But in everybody's mind, he's a war criminal.

1547
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 1: He spent forty some years, he's a freaking wars personal

1548
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 1: friend populations mind. Yeah, so he is so easy to discredit.

1549
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it doesn't make sense. I also, I

1550
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 1: also guess I don't know what the why you would

1551
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 1: murder him instead of just saying, hey, Russians, y'all just

1552
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 1: keep saying no and we'll get, we'll get, we owe

1553
01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 1: you two big favors, right, I mean, why would you

1554
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:53,719
Speaker 1: not just yeah? But again, I'm still I still honestly wonder.

1555
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:55,600
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm sure he was murdered, but I

1556
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: still honestly wondered what it was that they didn't want

1557
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 1: sta think about, what it was that he knew that

1558
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 1: they didn't want the world worn out about. Based on

1559
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 1: what Devin said, is that British used the term y'all. Yeah,

1560
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 1: it could have been that. I don't know, but but

1561
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:14,360
Speaker 1: it seems strange because you know, in the act bath

1562
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:18,559
Speaker 1: of World War Two, there's historians out there, there's journalists,

1563
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of people who want to know. They

1564
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:23,040
Speaker 1: want to sort out the story of what happened. They

1565
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:24,840
Speaker 1: want to talk to as many people as they can

1566
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 1: to find out the entire history or World War two.

1567
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: And this guy had some interesting stuff to tell us all.

1568
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 1: And but he was he was gagged. He couldn't say

1569
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: a word, you know. So this is just just kind

1570
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 1: of dawned on me, and I wonder if maybe this

1571
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 1: is the reason, if indeed he was killed, what happened

1572
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: to Spandau after he died, They tore it down. They

1573
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:49,519
Speaker 1: tore it down. Why well, some people think that they

1574
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: tore it down just to conceal the evidence of the crime,

1575
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 1: which I don't believe. But now they tore it down

1576
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:56,559
Speaker 1: because they didn't want it to become a neo Nazi

1577
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:00,160
Speaker 1: shrine exactly. So that is one of the things things

1578
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 1: that I said. I'm like, wait a minute, because that

1579
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: that movement had been gaining traction for a while at

1580
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 1: that point. I mean, you know, it was on the

1581
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:12,759
Speaker 1: rise again, and it could have been that he would

1582
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 1: have been hailed as some kind of martyr or messiah

1583
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 1: or saint or whatever. So that could have been a

1584
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: serious fear. Well, so but why this, Why do you

1585
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 1: need to keep him gagged? If he comes out and

1586
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,719
Speaker 1: anything he says, these people are going to get ahold

1587
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:36,800
Speaker 1: of and latch onto and take as a motivation. I

1588
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:39,640
Speaker 1: could see that as a as a giant fear for

1589
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:42,720
Speaker 1: the Germans alone, because the German government at in the

1590
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 1: eighties was really combating this, this neo Nazi movement that

1591
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:49,639
Speaker 1: was happening, So you see where they would be concerned

1592
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 1: about it. I mean, it's just it's it popped in

1593
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:57,639
Speaker 1: my head, right or wrong. I could suddenly. But they didn't. Again,

1594
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:01,320
Speaker 1: they didn't try to stop any other former high ranking

1595
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 1: Nazis like again Albert Spirit, et cetera, from publishing their memoirs.

1596
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 1: I almost wonder if that would be a good argument

1597
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:11,799
Speaker 1: for suicide though if Hess was really not he didn't

1598
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 1: have that really warlike nature in him. He didn't have

1599
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:19,720
Speaker 1: that hate was to the party, not to the things

1600
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 1: the party did well, or to the you know kind

1601
01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 1: of we're going to make this world great part of

1602
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 1: the party, not the like, and also kill a bunch

1603
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 1: of people, and you know, and that maybe he did.

1604
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 1: You know, maybe somebody did say, oh, yeah, there's this

1605
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 1: neo Nazi resurrection and it's going to be great when

1606
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:39,679
Speaker 1: you get out. You know, this is going to happen.

1607
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 1: Maybe he thought, oh my god, this is what I

1608
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:46,439
Speaker 1: Maybe he had a realization, maybe have that was not

1609
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: what he wanted it to. Well, it didn't have to

1610
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 1: be that way, though, I mean he could have if

1611
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 1: they said, hey, address our next rally, dude, he could

1612
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:55,519
Speaker 1: have just said, screw you. I don't support you people

1613
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:57,560
Speaker 1: at all. Look look how things turned out. But I

1614
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 1: don't know that that, you know, and I'm sure the

1615
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:02,600
Speaker 1: terms of his release, he would have been required to

1616
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 1: not do neo Nazi activities. Sure, I know, but I

1617
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: think that, you know, I think there's there's that chance

1618
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 1: of having that reflective moment of somebody saying, it's so great,

1619
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 1: you're going to get out and all these people are

1620
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 1: here to support you and this is what they believe,

1621
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 1: and for you to have that moment of realization of

1622
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is my legacy. Well yeah, but

1623
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:24,640
Speaker 1: it didn't have to be that way. It didn't have

1624
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 1: to be. But they were also three years old, and

1625
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 1: like they were probably not going to anna answer the world,

1626
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:31,719
Speaker 1: so so that he could have a big reception committee

1627
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: outside the prison for him, you know, but they probably

1628
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 1: would be quiet about it. But this is very cynical.

1629
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:38,720
Speaker 1: I have a question. How soon after he died did

1630
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 1: they get rid of the prison. I'm not sure exactly

1631
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 1: what it was. It was pretty soon. It wasn't as

1632
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: if ten years later they finally got around to tear

1633
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 1: the thing down. It's kind of too bad. It was

1634
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:52,560
Speaker 1: it was a cool old building. I mean, it was

1635
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: like kind of castle like it was. It was, and

1636
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 1: so it's kind of a shame. But this is going

1637
01:23:57,120 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 1: to sound really horrible. And I almost wonder if they

1638
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:02,599
Speaker 1: just needed to tear it down. There might have been

1639
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 1: in one of the real estate too. Well, I think

1640
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with that. An we just needed to

1641
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:10,240
Speaker 1: tear this thing down. And there's this guy who has

1642
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,559
Speaker 1: lived for way longer than we ever thought he would live,

1643
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 1: So we just got to get rid of him. They

1644
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 1: really spent a ton of money keeping one guy locked up. Yeah,

1645
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 1: I mean, so I almost I wonder. I know that's

1646
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 1: really horrible. I know it sounds horrible and cynical, and

1647
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:27,880
Speaker 1: I'm really really sorry, but I almost wonder if they

1648
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: just thought, this guy gotta go, we need to, you

1649
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 1: know here. Maybe it was real estate developers. Yeah, I

1650
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:38,680
Speaker 1: mean real estate developers are the ones that killed him.

1651
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 1: If this was Portland's I would absolutely say. Yeah. They

1652
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 1: dressed in military uniform. Yeah, they were Remax agents. Yeah.

1653
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 1: But I mean I guess you know, who would have

1654
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 1: thought when you locked a dude up that he would

1655
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:57,240
Speaker 1: live for that much longer. Yeah, he was a relatively

1656
01:24:57,320 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 1: young man, and he was just something he was. He

1657
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:03,519
Speaker 1: was young. I mean, he was only a couple of

1658
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:07,560
Speaker 1: years older than I am now. Yeah, so that is

1659
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,560
Speaker 1: a very young age to get locked up. Yeah, and

1660
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:12,759
Speaker 1: all of the rest of his people had been released

1661
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:16,759
Speaker 1: in the right twenty years ago, and so they probably

1662
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:18,560
Speaker 1: just assumed, all right, this guy is going to be

1663
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:20,560
Speaker 1: dead in a couple of years, it'll be fine. And

1664
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 1: then twenty years on, oh man, we can't afford this.

1665
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:28,680
Speaker 1: Maybe that was it. We're just sick of this and

1666
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 1: get rid of the guy. I don't know, it's crazy,

1667
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:36,800
Speaker 1: but uh was in speaking of shrines, his his body

1668
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:38,880
Speaker 1: was buried in the family cemetery and I can't remember

1669
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 1: the name of the town in Germany and somewhere in Bavaria,

1670
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:44,080
Speaker 1: I think, uh. And it unfortunately became kind of a

1671
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:46,960
Speaker 1: shrine for for neo Nazis who would have annual gatherings

1672
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 1: there in his grave, and so alas like government dug

1673
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,160
Speaker 1: up the grave and burned the body and scattered the ashes.

1674
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:55,600
Speaker 1: I guess that's just upsetting because it doesn't feel like

1675
01:25:55,680 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 1: what he wanted, you know about. Yeah, yeah, he probably

1676
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 1: think about the neo Nazis. It's frankly, I don't know.

1677
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:07,440
Speaker 1: I don't really know much about these guys. I suspect

1678
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:10,560
Speaker 1: that it's not even so much about politics or the

1679
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,560
Speaker 1: socialism or anything. I think it's just about anti semitism,

1680
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,080
Speaker 1: it's about racism. Yet it's about which is not what

1681
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party was started for. And I agree they

1682
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 1: were they were racist, but that's not it wasn't the

1683
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:23,920
Speaker 1: whole thing with that. But there were racists later, yeah,

1684
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:27,560
Speaker 1: well yeah, there there was. It's um, it's based on

1685
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:31,560
Speaker 1: a very common sentiment of if they weren't here, I

1686
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,920
Speaker 1: do better. But no matter what that that people is,

1687
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 1: there's always one group saying if you weren't here, it'd

1688
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,400
Speaker 1: be better for us. I mean, that's but that was

1689
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 1: That was the very i'm going to say naive beginning

1690
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 1: of the racism and the Nazi Party, and then it

1691
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 1: escalated to a horrible level. And we can all agree

1692
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 1: on but and so I agree that he probably was.

1693
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 1: It is terrible because it wasn't like he was like, yeah,

1694
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:02,360
Speaker 1: I want a bunch of drunk skinheads on my great Really,

1695
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 1: I don't think he would have cared for that at all.

1696
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 1: God he got the short end of the stick. But

1697
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 1: the thing that to remember about the Nazis is it

1698
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 1: wasn't just because they were racist, but it's also because

1699
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 1: at the time they came into being, there was this real, huge,

1700
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 1: intellectual fat at loose in the world called the eugenics movement,

1701
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:22,400
Speaker 1: and which began here in America, by the way, Yeah,

1702
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:26,120
Speaker 1: and that great job. Yeah and then and then and

1703
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, of course leave it to Hitler in the

1704
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: Gang to take this to an industrial scale. But they

1705
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:32,719
Speaker 1: actually thought that they were saving the human race because

1706
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 1: they were all these inferior people out there, and if

1707
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 1: you we think they're genes in the gene pool, it's

1708
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:39,720
Speaker 1: gonna make us all better off down the line. And

1709
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:43,600
Speaker 1: so that's where that came from. Obviously, Eugenics is like

1710
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's still out there. You still see

1711
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:50,639
Speaker 1: the Darwin Awards, and there's movies like um Idiocracy, which

1712
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, embodies the same ideas, and so there's still

1713
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: lots of people who really believe that hopefully we're not gonna, like,

1714
01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:01,719
Speaker 1: you know, see a return to the Holocaust. Hopefully not. Yeah. Alright,

1715
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:04,040
Speaker 1: well enough of that. Do you guys have any series

1716
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 1: I'm totally I think I think that Hess was sent

1717
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:12,719
Speaker 1: by Hitler, and I also think that he didn't kill himself.

1718
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 1: I think it, of course you could have been shoop. Yeah,

1719
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:18,560
Speaker 1: he is about that right age. Yeah, I think he

1720
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:20,599
Speaker 1: was sent by Hitler. I think they were both duped

1721
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:24,839
Speaker 1: by my six probably, and I think it's highly possible.

1722
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 1: I don't I obviously don't know, but I given the

1723
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:30,559
Speaker 1: fact that it was for so many years, it seems

1724
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 1: so important to keep him muzzled, you gotta wonder. And

1725
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:35,720
Speaker 1: then and then all of a sudden he might be

1726
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 1: let go bhoops. I guess it's time for him to

1727
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 1: commit suicide. Yeah, you gotta wonder. I'm not saying I

1728
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: have definitive evidence or anything, but I'm wondering. Alright. Well, anyway,

1729
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 1: I guess we'll just call that once solved and solved

1730
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 1: by something totally. Yea, there talking about we got it,

1731
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:57,599
Speaker 1: damn it. We've got a hundred percent record. That's awesome. Well, hey,

1732
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 1: I'd tied for a few. A few things that you

1733
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 1: guys probably want to know about. You probably want to know.

1734
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:05,040
Speaker 1: Do we have a website? Yeah, we do. It's called

1735
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:09,840
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Uh. You can download episodes,

1736
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 1: listen episodes, check our links. We always put links out

1737
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 1: for you, and you can also well, until recently, you

1738
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 1: can also leave comments that we we actually turned turned

1739
01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:21,240
Speaker 1: off the comments because well, some people were getting a

1740
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:23,600
Speaker 1: little love rule. Turns out the internet is full of

1741
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:27,200
Speaker 1: anonymous jerks. Yeah, and I apologize because we had some

1742
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 1: other people who were posting really great, insightful first, but

1743
01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 1: there was all group who ruined it for everybody. I'm sorry, guys,

1744
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:38,800
Speaker 1: we couldn't police it anymore. Yeah, it's just so. We

1745
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 1: do have some other options though, yes, yeah, yeah, you

1746
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 1: can always go to Facebook. We are on Facebook, uh,

1747
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 1: and you can you can like us, you better like us,

1748
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:48,640
Speaker 1: damn it, and join the group of course we have.

1749
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:52,600
Speaker 1: And there's also iTunes. You could subscribe and leave us

1750
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 1: a review, hopefully a good review, and you can also

1751
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 1: stream us from all kinds of places, although I don't know,

1752
01:29:57,320 --> 01:29:59,160
Speaker 1: it seems to me like we get more complaints from

1753
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:02,439
Speaker 1: people going through dreaming services and from anybody else. Yeah.

1754
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 1: Unfortunately that's the streaming service not anymore used to be,

1755
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,639
Speaker 1: but it's not us anymore. Yeah, so if you are

1756
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 1: having issues, find another streaming service, or maybe just I

1757
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:16,599
Speaker 1: don't know, go somewhere like our website. Where else we're

1758
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 1: on We're on Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, excuse yeah, yeah, we're

1759
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:24,320
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, we do thinking sideways, that's without

1760
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:27,680
Speaker 1: the g uh. You can get the Reddit page that's

1761
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:29,560
Speaker 1: another place for people who used to be at the

1762
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:34,639
Speaker 1: website can go choose. We have the there's a new

1763
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 1: discussion every time that we post each episode. Yeah, which

1764
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:41,720
Speaker 1: they're you know, they're small right now, but go say

1765
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 1: your thoughts and those will be really really great. Yeah,

1766
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 1: we want to hear what you guys think, good or bad,

1767
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 1: preferably good. And also if you want to contact us privately,

1768
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:52,960
Speaker 1: you can always send us an email. We're thinking Sideways

1769
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 1: podcast at gmail dot com, So send us an email

1770
01:30:57,439 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 1: if you've got any ideas for a mystery or something

1771
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:01,479
Speaker 1: fun like that, or if you want to be an expert,

1772
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:03,719
Speaker 1: or you just want to chat chat about the mystery

1773
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 1: in generally yeah, yeah, yeah, or if you happen to

1774
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:08,160
Speaker 1: know something about one of the mysteries. We replied to

1775
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:10,880
Speaker 1: every single email we got. We do sometimes they're not

1776
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:13,599
Speaker 1: as speedy as we want, but literally every single email

1777
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:17,120
Speaker 1: we get we replied to or replies it's just us.

1778
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:20,000
Speaker 1: Yeah we don't have a boat yet, but we will

1779
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 1: is going to be justin We've finally found a use

1780
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:28,840
Speaker 1: for that intern. Yeah where else. So also, if you

1781
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 1: want to support the show, this is totally optional, of course,

1782
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,559
Speaker 1: but there is Patreon. You go to patreon dot com

1783
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 1: slash thinking sideways and if you want to, you can

1784
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:40,280
Speaker 1: pledge a certain amount of money per episode. Be aware

1785
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:43,080
Speaker 1: of that, you know, because you get charged that amount

1786
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:45,559
Speaker 1: for every episode. So if you're giving us fifty bucks,

1787
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: make sure, Oh no, you can if you want to,

1788
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:50,280
Speaker 1: just realize that it's gonna be every week. You're getting good,

1789
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 1: which is the reason that we have the papal option

1790
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:55,720
Speaker 1: as well for one time donation. Or we've got the

1791
01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 1: merchandise which does support the show, and you get to

1792
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:00,840
Speaker 1: also support some sweet shirt hurts or have a mug

1793
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 1: or a night light or some stickers. Somebody bought the

1794
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 1: Mary celestire. We have a Mary celestire. Yeah, I'm just kidding,

1795
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 1: all right. So that's about it for me. You guys

1796
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:17,360
Speaker 1: have any last thoughts where we signed up for the week,

1797
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:20,439
Speaker 1: I got Nazi else, Oh my god, no,