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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson

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Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Friday. We spent the whole week talking

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Speaker 1: about mourning, though we sure did. This is someone I

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Speaker 1: had not heard of when I found this book at

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Speaker 1: the book Barn. I'm laughing at my own foolishnists, but

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Speaker 1: I'll explain in a moment. Okay, So this was a

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Speaker 1: lovely little trip several years ago, day trip that I

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Speaker 1: and two friends took out to the book barn. And

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, one of the friends has moved away

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Speaker 1: since then, but we like, we haven't made another book

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Speaker 1: Barn trip, and I periodically will be like book Barn,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing that we should do. I came home

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Speaker 1: with two books from that trip, and one was a

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Speaker 1: book that I bought at the book barn, and the

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Speaker 1: other was a book that won one of my friends

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Speaker 1: was going to sell at the book barn but instead

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Speaker 1: said maybe you would like this book, and I brought

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Speaker 1: it home with me, and I am pretty sure the

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Speaker 1: Morning Dove Autobiography is the one that I bought. Like

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Speaker 1: the receipt is tucked in there but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: been sitting on my desk for so long, waiting, waiting

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Speaker 1: to be an episode. One reason it took this long

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Speaker 1: is that it was clear it was going to be challenging,

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Speaker 1: and it turned out to be a lot more challenging

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Speaker 1: than I expected. Oh isn't that always fun? Yeah? Yeah, it.

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Speaker 1: There were many many sources for the episode besides just

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Speaker 1: the autobiography, and one of the reasons that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do this episode was like having somebody's own thoughts

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Speaker 1: about their own life, which is especially important when we

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Speaker 1: are talking about indigenous people living in the Americas with

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Speaker 1: the history that we have here, and so sort of

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Speaker 1: finding out what the editing process had been like and

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Speaker 1: that there are some criticisms of that editing process kind

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Speaker 1: of like shed a whole different light on the autobiography itself.

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Speaker 1: It is a fascinating book, though this topic unlocked too fuzzy.

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Speaker 1: Are these real memories for me? Okay? The first is

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Speaker 1: the book barn uh huh, because I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't find anything rapidly on how long they have been

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Speaker 1: in business, but many moons ago I worked in acquisitions

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Speaker 1: at a college library, and I swear we used to

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Speaker 1: order from them, and if not, it was another vendor

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Speaker 1: called book Barn that's in the Northeast. But I just

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Speaker 1: remember unloading packages from them and cataloging them for the library. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so if it was them, hooray. The other thing was

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Speaker 1: that I went to grades one, two, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of four in the Pacific Northwest, and I think that

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Speaker 1: my third grade teacher read us stuff from Coyote Stories.

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Speaker 1: Totally possible. Yeah. When I was doing research for this,

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Speaker 1: I found some lesson plans around Coyote Stories. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: mean this would have been the seventies, so yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would have been the older version of it, like

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Speaker 1: not a newly edited edition of it or anything, but

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Speaker 1: that added context. But I just was like, oh wait,

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Speaker 1: oh wait, missus Kempton. Yeah, and there are so many

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Speaker 1: complexities with that book right like it was. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I didn't perceive any of that at the age of so,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure I would not either. Yeah. I feel

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Speaker 1: like so much of her work has all of these

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Speaker 1: nuances to it, things that are simultaneously groundbreaking and things

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Speaker 1: that you know to some extent in today's context, like

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Speaker 1: today's context has some differences to roughly a century ago

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Speaker 1: when the US was like actively pursuing federal policies meant

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Speaker 1: to eliminate Indigenous culture. So the idea of somebody recording

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Speaker 1: these stories to share them has a little bit different

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Speaker 1: tone than today, when I'm not saying everything's perfect, but

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Speaker 1: there has been more of a focus on like self

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Speaker 1: determination Indigenous nations stressing with their own protocols are and

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Speaker 1: how they do or do not want work to be shared.

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Speaker 1: And that is why, like we did not get into

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Speaker 1: in depth descriptions of the figure of coyote or what

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Speaker 1: is in these books, like that doesn't belong to you

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Speaker 1: and me. So that's that's that's why that we you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked about her work with that without going into

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Speaker 1: detail about it. So yeah, totally possible that that was

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventy eight seventy nine school year. Anywhere

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Speaker 1: goes Yeah. So a thing that I'm curious about that

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Speaker 1: I was not able to find the answer with is

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Speaker 1: whether she had any involvement at all with the basketball team,

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Speaker 1: the girls' basketball team at Fort Shaw Indian School. So

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Speaker 1: we did a two part podcast about the Fort Shaw

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Speaker 1: Indian School girls basketball team. So a while back, she

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Speaker 1: was there at the same time that some of that

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Speaker 1: was happening, and she was working as a teacher's aid,

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Speaker 1: which I think is how she had a little bit

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Speaker 1: more freedom to come and go out of the school

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Speaker 1: than students who were like full time students might have.

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Speaker 1: But I do not know if she had any involvement

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Speaker 1: like with the team beyond potentially being a teacher's aid

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Speaker 1: for some of the some of the players. And I

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Speaker 1: am curious and I do not know the answer. I also,

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Speaker 1: as I was trying to find the original article, that

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen article that we talked about in part one

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Speaker 1: that was done as promotion for her forthcoming book when

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Speaker 1: the book was more than a decade away, which they

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Speaker 1: did not know obviously when they were trying to promote it.

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Speaker 1: I had seen people like mentioning this article, and I

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Speaker 1: was trying to find the actual article, and I wound

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Speaker 1: up on a page of a different a different paper,

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Speaker 1: which was the Spokane Chronicle, different newspaper. It had come

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Speaker 1: up in a search result was not actually relevant to

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Speaker 1: Mourning Dove. The words mourning and dove were on the page.

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Speaker 1: It was not about the Mourning Dove who these episodes

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Speaker 1: were about. But I was fascinated by the other headlines

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Speaker 1: that were on the page that was not ultimately relevant

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Speaker 1: to the episode because they were just in all capital

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Speaker 1: letters for all of them. Part of human body found

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Speaker 1: in stomach of huge shark. Yeah, I'm sorry, that's terrible tragedy,

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Speaker 1: bombay clothes to missus, Annie Bessant, and epidemic shows slight decrease.

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Speaker 1: And those were three to me, dramatic headlines connected to

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Speaker 1: things we have talked about on the show, or past

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Speaker 1: hosts have talked about on the show. Because that part

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Speaker 1: of the human body being found in the stomach of

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Speaker 1: the huge shark was about the nineteen sixteen Jersey Shore

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Speaker 1: shark Tacks, which is an episode about We've talked about

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Speaker 1: Annie Bessant in some of our I think the London

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Speaker 1: match Girls strike was the one where we talked about

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Speaker 1: Annie Bessant. If I am conflating two different labor stories,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. And then the epidemic being described, I thought

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Speaker 1: until I read the article might have been encephalitis lethargica.

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Speaker 1: I think it was actually polio, though this was a

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Speaker 1: time when there could be big polio outbreaks. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: three very dramatic headlines connected to things we've covered on

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Speaker 1: the show on this one page of newspaper. I'm really

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Speaker 1: fascinated by Morning Doves story, and a lot of the

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Speaker 1: writing about her, both academically and non dates back to

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Speaker 1: about the nineteen nineties, like when this autobiography is being published,

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Speaker 1: new edition of Coyote Stories coming out, that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: There were papers that pointed out that so much of

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Speaker 1: the literary criticism slash slash research on her work has

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Speaker 1: really been about McWorter and mcworter's influence on it and

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Speaker 1: not about the work itself. But it doesn't seem I'm like,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like that ever, like spurred a lot

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Speaker 1: more research into the work itself, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that will ever happen. Sometimes it seems like there

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Speaker 1: are people that we talk about on the show where

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Speaker 1: there's a wave of interest in them and a particular

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Speaker 1: window of time, and then they just sort of fade

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Speaker 1: back into the background again. Yeah, I think the thing

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Speaker 1: that I find myself most fascinated by in this is

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Speaker 1: just this sounds very broad and weird, and like I

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Speaker 1: am very sleepier under the influence of something. I'm like

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Speaker 1: language man. But my thing is that the idea of

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Speaker 1: different languages and how people perceive non native speakers always

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Speaker 1: is really interesting to me, Like, h particularly because I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of English speakers who have made

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Speaker 1: presumptions about the intellect of someone else who does not

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Speaker 1: speak English as a first language because they speak in

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Speaker 1: a way that sounds odd to a native English speaker,

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Speaker 1: like they don't grasp the language, and it's like, no, No,

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Speaker 1: their syntax that they grew up with puts this all

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Speaker 1: in a different order. It's not that they are speaking

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Speaker 1: like a simpleton. This is the natural way for their

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Speaker 1: brain to order words. Yeah, And that's like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like that has so many times throughout history been this

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Speaker 1: weird barrier for people to recognize other people as intellectual equals.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, how many languages do you speak? Right,

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Speaker 1: you would do the same thing in the opposite way

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Speaker 1: if you were trying to talk to them in their

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Speaker 1: native language. It's always a really interesting one to me.

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Speaker 1: And then when you later on the idea that her

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Speaker 1: syntax has also become outdated and antiquated compared to the

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Speaker 1: way speakers of her language would speak today, Like, there's

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Speaker 1: just a whole cool interesting ven diagram of examination to

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Speaker 1: be done on the evolution of language for any culture. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I said in the episode that some of

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Speaker 1: the papers that I read that quoted from her letters,

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Speaker 1: some of them it felt like they had edited the

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Speaker 1: letter into like standard English, and some of them had not.

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Speaker 1: And the ones that were not edited, you could really

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Speaker 1: see sort of patterns in the things that she seemed

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Speaker 1: to struggle with in English, which one hundred percent, like

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Speaker 1: you were saying, suggests that like this stems from how

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Speaker 1: she understood things in her native language trying to communicate

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Speaker 1: them in a completely different language, not even not. I

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Speaker 1: mean we a lot of times we'll talk about people

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Speaker 1: on the show that spoke multiple languages, but it's like

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Speaker 1: they spoke multiple romance languages, right, So multiple languages that

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Speaker 1: already have a lot in common, and like we're talking

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Speaker 1: like Salish languages have some really big differences from English.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that one of the papers that

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Speaker 1: was talking about sort of the development of these stories,

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Speaker 1: like figuring out how to record an indigenous oral tradition

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Speaker 1: story into like a print book, was talking about context

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Speaker 1: where the gender of the speaker meant they would use

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Speaker 1: different language because there was like different context there, and

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Speaker 1: like that's not that's not really something that we encounter

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Speaker 1: in English that way, Like the word for father is father.

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Speaker 1: This is I'm made up example that I make up

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Speaker 1: for illustration. Like the word for father is father in English.

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Speaker 1: There's not a different word based on that, like the

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Speaker 1: gender of the person who's speaking the word father. Again,

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Speaker 1: that is an example that I'm sort of paraphrasing based

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Speaker 1: on my memory of a paper that I read, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily when it's like strictly accurate to the language. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of efforts, like really concerted, concrete

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Speaker 1: efforts to teach people a number of different Salish languages

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Speaker 1: because like as we said at the beginning, like there

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Speaker 1: are still people that speak these languages. There are still

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Speaker 1: elders who are fluent in these languages and may have

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Speaker 1: even grown up speaking them as their first language. They

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Speaker 1: are critically endangered languages though, and so like there are

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Speaker 1: a number of organizations and people putting like really strong

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Speaker 1: effort into trying to pursue these languages and get more

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Speaker 1: people fluent in them. So yeah, yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: what I have to say about this week's episodes. That

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Speaker 1: I apologize if anyone got to the end of part

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Speaker 1: one not realizing it was a two parter because I

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Speaker 1: forgot to say that. The good news is it will

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Speaker 1: say part one. It will your app when you open

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Speaker 1: it to listen. I'm not going to name any names,

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Speaker 1: but there is a podcast that I listened to that

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Speaker 1: drops surprise two parters and it doesn't say in the

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Speaker 1: title of the episode, and so I will be like,

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Speaker 1: really into what's happening, and then it's like next time,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I would have I would have waited

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Speaker 1: until both of them were available to listen to them both.

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Speaker 1: So yes, it will very clearly say part one in

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Speaker 1: part two in the title of the episode. Now, when

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Speaker 1: I build this show page, I'm not going to include

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Speaker 1: it just to be a jerk. Oh no, I'd be Friday.

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Speaker 1: Whatever is happening on your weekend? You know. I hope

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Speaker 1: it's really good and we will be back with a

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Speaker 1: Saturday Classic tomorrow. We will have brand new episodes on Monday.

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Speaker 1: Hope things are going well for everybody. Stuff you missed

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Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows,