WEBVTT - The Real Killer Season 2: Ep. 2, Still Human Beings 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:06.320 A warning this episode contains language and depictions of violence 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:13.040 that may be disturbing to some listeners. They're bottle all 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:14.880 up here. This is keep in mind. This is all 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:21.320 officer blows right here as a bucket of water and blood. 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:26.920 Next say, supposedly trying to fixed on the officers that 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:32.880 have watch them all. The April uprising at the Southern 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:39.240 Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville, Ohio is over eleven excruciating days, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.760 ten gruesome murders. It's still one of the longest and 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:48.040 deadliest prison riots in US history. Or blot wall over 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:56.560 here now there's all over this blood everywhere. The investigation 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.680 and the hunt for those responsible is about to begin. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.880 Keith Lamar will soon find himself in the center of 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:08.319 it all. But first, a warning from prisoners left behind 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:14.440 for law enforcement is literally written on the wall. Don't 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:19.000 treat prisoners like stupid animals. It could happen again. Lucasville rioters. 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:35.720 I'm Leah Rothman. This is the real killer. Episode two 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:51.080 still human Beings. Not long after the Violet Riots began, 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.440 show did the brutal killings for at least six of 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.480 the murdered inmates. The end was painful and bloody. The 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:04.120 killings were barbed barrack. Here's Cincinnati news station w CPO 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:09.040 reporting These autopsies, released just hours ago and obtained by 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.320 Channel nine, reveal a chilling pattern of homicide. At least 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.520 five inmates were beaten to death, all of them suffering 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:20.480 massive head injuries along with deep cuts all over their bodies. 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:25.359 There were eight prisoners murdered in L Block Ground zero 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:32.240 during the uprising, Darryl de Pinative Earl Elder, Franklin Farrell, 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:44.240 Bruce Harris, David Summers, Albert Steano forty, William Savetti, and 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:49.800 Bruce Howard Vitali Jr. Also killed an L Block was 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:55.120 Officer Robert V. Landingham, forty. He died from ligature strangulation. 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.639 Every one of the murders was of a brutal nature. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.920 That's Kenneth Marshall, thirty one year veteran of the Ohio 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:12.320 State Highway Patrol back. He was the executive officer in 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.919 the Office of Investigative Services. I speak with ken over zoom. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.480 All those guys a terrible death, you can believe that, 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:26.240 But there's still one more victim, Dennis Weaver. Dennis Weaver 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:31.480 was killed two days after the Easter Sunday revolt. Dennis 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.320 Weaver was one of those three hundred men removed from 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.160 the wreck yard late that first night and put in 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:41.600 a K block cell with nine others. The next day, 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.520 he was murdered. The coroner's report on inmate Dennis Weaver 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.680 determined the cause of death to be asphyxiation by cervical 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:57.040 ligature and asphixiation by gagging. I want to make sure 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.760 the ten victims aren't forgotten in all this. Regardless of 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.640 who they were, an officer or an offender, their lives 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.600 had meaning and what happened to them was a tragedy. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.200 I've reached out to the victims families the ones I 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.240 could find, but so far no one has returned my 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:20.279 messages back in finding out who murdered these men is 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:25.840 top priority. It was a massive leundertaking. Kenneth Marshall will 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.640 lead his team in the largest investigation in the State 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:36.400 Highway Patrols history. At sixteen investigators then nine solid months, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.200 sixteen guys that didn't have any experience doing that before. 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.280 It's of a magnitude that's hard to judge. Maybe part 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.159 of what made it so daunting was the state and 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.600 size of the crime scene. L Block, where the uprising 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.960 took place, consisted of eight houses or blocks like L one, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.480 L two, L three up to L eight, and each 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.719 one of those consisted of eighty eight by ten cells, 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:06.480 so six hundred and forty cells total. The entire L 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.520 Block was one hundred and fifteen thousand square feet and 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:15.520 the adjoining gymnasium was almost twenty square feet, so that 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.960 was more than two football fields worth of potential evidence 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.680 for investigators to go through. The whole L Block was 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.120 just totally annihilated. I mean, we had four hundred prisoners 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.280 that were loosing these cell blocks. They tore everything up, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.520 they broke everything, and so yeah, that was the very 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.359 first step was to go through, sort out and find 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.360 what evidence we could find in all those cell blocks, collated, 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.359 secure it, try and keep track of it. It was. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.880 It was just a tremendous job. What was some of 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:53.359 the evidence that your investigators found an L Block? What 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.479 they found mostly in L Block was the instruments that 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.320 cause of death. I mean, it's been thirty years, so 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.320 I just have to speak in generalities about that, but 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.280 that's that's what they were looking for. Anything, whether it 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.760 be a piece of paper, a note written to somebody, 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.080 a shank, or a piece of pipe with blood on it. 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:17.360 All of that was gathered up, analyzed, dusted for fingerprints. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.000 They will also go through hours and hours of audio 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:27.480 recordings obtained during some of the eleven days, the investigators 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:32.200 inserted microphones underneath the cell blocks, monitoring the conversations of 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.880 the inmates. Those recordings will be referred to as the 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:42.000 tunnel tapes. But their most important investigative tool will be 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:46.640 the interviews they conduct with the prisoners. Here's w CPO 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:52.200 reporting These murder investigations pose a unique problem. Not only 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.520 are the inmates the prime suspects, they are also the 0:06:55.560 --> 0:07:00.279 best witnesses. And it's these prisoner interviews that will soon 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:05.800 become the crux of Keith Lamar's case. Trying to think 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:11.240 of what it was they had interviews with different inmates 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:16.560 and some reinterviews. That's a lot of interviews. Well yeah, 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.400 I mean you've got to do the interview in order 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.040 to get the wheels in motion. And it's the interviews. 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.760 And of course, when you're interviewing these inmates, guess what 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:26.960 they don't want to tell you the truth. They want 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.920 to tell you You know how clean they are, but 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.920 they don't mind talking to you about Joe or Phil 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.840 doing this. A lot of prisoners were interviewed multiple times, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.320 sometimes one, sometimes two, three or four or five. I 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:45.800 think up into like eleven and twelve interviews. Why, well, 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.120 you know, the most difficult thing to do when you're 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.320 being interviewed by someone is to tell a lie. Because 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.720 in the second interview you didn't remember what your lie was, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.200 and on the third interview, you didn't remember what your 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:02.920 second line was. So it's just strictly detective work. It's 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.080 a good police work. You got a suspect, you're pretty 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.280 sure this is your guy. How many times is he 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.200 gonna lie to you? And then how are you going 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.640 to prove that he was lying in the first place? 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.160 So yeah, I don't know, you know, I don't know 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.200 specifically that that's true. You probably know a little bit 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.600 more about that with your research than I do, but 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.840 I would say that absolutely that's the case, and that's 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.680 the reason for it. So they're catching these people in 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.560 a lie and then eventually it all comes out. It's 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.560 a little bit like blue Blunts, you know, only in 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:37.280 real life. Is that the one with Tom Seller? Yeah? Well, 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.440 everybody knows Tom Seller. Um, you know, I've been telling 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.640 these kinds of stories for I've just never heard of 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:49.000 so many interviews. Yeah. Well, and I think that's what 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:54.160 makes this whole investigation so unique that we were actually 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:59.800 able to convict five known felons of murder. How do 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.080 we do that? But we did that by doing the 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.040 stuff that you're saying you've never heard it. Net's that 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:10.280 was all groundbreaking stuff done by these Ohio State troopers. 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.240 It's in some of these very interviews that Keith and 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:21.040 many others say manipulation and misconduct occurred. We are going 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.119 to talk a lot more about this in later episodes. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.480 So at the end of the Ohio State Highway Patrols 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:34.040 lengthy investigation, and based mostly on the interviews they conducted 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:38.320 with prisoners, five men are singled out as leaders during 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:42.080 the uprising, Actually the same five men Kenneth Marshall just 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:47.360 referred to. Two are from the Muslim community, Sadiq Abdallah 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:52.480 Hassan formerly known as Carlos Sanders and Namir Abdul Matine 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:57.000 also known as James Ware, and two other inmates are 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:01.000 members of the Arian Brotherhood, George Skates and Jason rob 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:06.000 investigators believe those four took part in various crimes, including 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.760 the killing of Officer Robert H. Landingham, but the fifth 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.480 person is not someone affiliated with any gang or group 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.240 or even remotely connected to officer of the Landingham's death. 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:26.280 This is a prepaid debit call from Keith Lamar, an 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:30.320 animated at the Ohio State in a country, Keith Lamar 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.080 will be named the leader of the death Squad and 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.040 accused of calling for and taking part in the murders 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.720 of five prisoners during the first and third days of 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:44.080 the uprising. This call is from a correction facility and 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:48.040 is subject to monitoring and recording. Thank you for using GTL. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.080 Fifty three year old Keith Lamar talks to me from 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.800 death row at the Ohio State Penitentiary in Youngstown, Ohio. 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.679 I'm okay, how are you okay? I'm I'm doing all right. Yeah. 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:07.880 Keith and I started talking back in May of In total, 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.520 we've spoken twenty seven times for almost thirty five hours. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:18.320 Our conversations have run the gamut. We've discussed family, prison life, 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:24.880 books and music, racism, politics, and of course his case. 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.160 The first time we speak, he is open and friendly, 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.440 but he also lets me know what he expects from me. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.000 I think one thing you should know, as long as 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.280 you are involved in giving at the truth, you and 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:47.160 I will be good. I am after the truth and 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.280 I am going to do my best to try and 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:55.120 uncover it. So let's start with investigators basic theory of 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.200 what they say Keith did on the first day, really 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.319 the first hours of the Upper Rising. They allege Keith, 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.600 then twenty three, is out on the recreation yard when 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.760 the riot kicks off. They say he and two other 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.000 prisoners come into l Block L six to be exact, 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.400 to check on their belongings in their cells. After they 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.280 do so, the Muslim prisoners, who are seemingly in charge, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.640 won't allow them to go back outside. That's when investigators 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.440 say Keith comes up with a plan, a plan that 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:32.000 involves killing some prisoners who were alleged snitches. See. During 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.880 the early hours of the uprising, the Muslim prisoners supposedly 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.880 had those so called snitches locked up in cells for 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.960 their own protection because as snitches, they are some of 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.240 the most hated within the prison population and they'd be 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.680 quite vulnerable to retaliation. But investigators believe Keith sees the 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.400 snitches as a bargaining chip, they say, he offers to 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.840 kill them and in return asks that they be allowed 0:12:57.880 --> 0:12:59.920 to leave and go back out onto the wreck yard. 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.960 Investigators say, when one of the Muslim prisoners gives him 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.120 the go ahead, Keith assembles a group of men who 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:12.640 mask up and arm themselves with various weapons like bats, knives, shovels, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.320 and white bars. According to investigators, Keith then orders the 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.560 prison cells where the alleged snitches are being held to 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.640 be opened one at a time. Then he and a 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.079 squad of men go sell to sell, killing four darryld Apina, 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:34.880 Albert Steano, William Savetti and Bruce Vitali. Afterwards, Keith and 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.440 the others are allowed to leave l block and return 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.680 to the yard. Keith, not surprisingly for a man who 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.120 has maintained his innocence for the last thirty years, tells 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:51.240 a very different story. It was Easter Sunday, the holiday, 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.360 and so there wasn't as much staff there as it 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.719 would have normally or otherwise would have been. Everybody have 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.280 to being cooked, the ball in her everybody was trying 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.560 to get outside, trying to get some fresh air. And 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.840 you know, I went outside and I ran a few 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.319 miles with a few of my friends. You know, recreation 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:13.480 had been called through a hand, but we were all 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.520 lined up to go back into the building and um, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.960 all of a sudden a guard ran out with blood 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:25.200 streaming down his face. And shortly after that inmate came 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.440 out holding the PR twenty four, one of those one 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.960 of the night sticks, which I assumed he took from 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.880 the guard, And that was the first indication any of 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.880 us had that there was something going on, and we 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.000 all knew that then, you know, the spirit repercussions for 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.920 something like that suddenly down in Louisville. Luisville was a 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.560 maximum security prison, you know, so you know, everybody who 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.080 mainly who were by the door at that particular time 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.600 kind of backed up and went back into the middle 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.800 of the yard or sat down on the picnic tables, 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.280 you know, like that was the front row seat. And then, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.440 um about I don't know, dirty and this or so 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.080 into the ride, a guy that I knew, uh came 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.480 out and was kind of giving us a blow by 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.960 blow after what was going on. And it seemed at 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.960 the time that it was just persons running around ransacking sales, 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.200 of searching guys sales. We found out and laying around 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.760 that David was going from sales and sales, robbing guys 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.760 for their property. And this would actually spurred me to 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.760 go back in. And I didn't have anything of of 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.520 immense value in there, just some boxing boosts, some pictures 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.480 and personal effects, nothing to risk my life about. But 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.880 again we didn't know at the outset the magnitude of 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:40.440 what was going on. So you go inside, you check 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.800 on your belongings. What were you thinking, I mean, the 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.800 chaos is happening all around you. It was it was darring, 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.160 you know, to see the level of destruction that was 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.480 going on. It was hundreds and hundreds of people in 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:58.800 the hallway, just people running all over everywhere, anarchy basically 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:04.600 people but the windows, people screaming, hollering. And I made 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.040 my way through this, you know, uh, massive people to 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.680 L six. That was the pot where I was how 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.920 um and I walked into the pod. And you know, 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.000 one of the first things now, now, when I walked 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:21.800 into the pod, contrast to the madness and everything that 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.400 was going on in the corporado, this was real quiet 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.760 inside of L six. It was orderly inside of L 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.840 six because unbeknownst me at the time, this was the 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.200 place where the hostages were being held. You know, I 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.840 walked in, I saw some guards to my right in 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:42.440 the lord shower stalls, and I walked down to my cell. 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.600 He says, when he gets to a cell, someone's there. 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.000 My start's individible with myself. There was nobody man in 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.520 the control panel at the time. I ran up to 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.320 the panel trying to open my door and inadvertently opened 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.280 some other doors wherever. They also makes in those sales 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.000 as well. Some of those prisoners came out, and the 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.399 guys who was presiding over the pod, who was in 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.720 control of the pods, saw that. So when I was 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.520 doing and I had a confrontation and had a conversation 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.480 i should say with uh several of these individuals, and 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.080 they explained to me what was going on, that this 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.480 was a riot, that we were taking over the ride. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.840 We tired of being treated like second class citizens, so 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.159 on and so forth. And they kind of gave me 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.359 an ultimatum that you can need to stand here with 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.800 us to be a part of what we're doing, or 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.639 you could leave. And I, you know, I chose to 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.520 I chose to leave. I I knew enough to know that, Yeah, 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:38.960 I didn't want to be a part of that, and 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.520 I left, you know, I I came back onto the 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:47.560 yard and then you know, I've said on record that 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:49.600 you know it couldn't have been more than ten minutes. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.280 But the truth is that I have no idea how 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.119 long I was inside. You know, ten minutes could seem 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.879 like ten hours when your life is on the line, 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.720 if you know how much time, you know, come on, 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.200 you know, you know I don't have a watch all 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.840 and and and you don't know that that never that 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:17.359 will be important. Laying wrong. So to reiterate, Keith says 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.880 he went inside L six to check on his property, 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.720 saw a man in a cell, opened some cell doors, 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.600 was asked if he wanted to stay and participate in 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.199 the riot, said no, then went back out to the 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.720 yard and he's not totally sure how long he was inside. 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.320 What comes next is not in dispute by Keith or investigators. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.280 Around two am, Keith and the three prisoners who had 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.440 been out on the yard are rounded up and brought inside. 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.000 All are stripped, naked, zip tied, and put in a 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.159 by ten cells in K Block. Keith is put in 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.560 cell K twoty six with nine other men. The next day, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.920 one of those men is murdered and in time Key 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.200 will be blamed for it. They said or claimed that 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:08.159 I want indivisibles for three individuals to kill. How is 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.320 that possible? How can one person with with no weapons 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:25.440 give these three individuals in order to kill somebody? It's 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.359 day three of the uprising. Keith Lamar is in a 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:32.200 K block prison cell with nine other men. Dennis Weaver, 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:38.040 one of those men, is then killed. Investigators basic theory 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.680 is this, they say. Keith accuses Dennis Weaver of being 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.720 a snitch. When Weaver denies it, Keith punches him in 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:51.040 the face. Investigators say Keith then accuses another man in 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.080 the cell, William Bowling, of being a snitch as well. 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.159 When he denies it, Keith tells Bowling he's got a choice. 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:03.200 Either Bowling has to kill Weaver or Keith will kill him. 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:08.440 According to investigators, William Bowling strangles Dennis Weaver, but when 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.320 Weaver fights back, Keith instructs two other men to jump 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.520 in and help. Investigators believe Keith then shoves papers or 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:21.000 plastic down Weaver's throat to finish him off. Then Keith 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.119 tells the other men in the cell they need to 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.639 make Weaver's death look like a suicide. But here's what 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:33.400 Keith says happened. We had all been forced into these 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.520 single man sales, thin people, so all of us would 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.480 tramatas and we would net it had eaten. We were tired, 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:45.680 we had been stretched to our limits. Eventually, corrections officers 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.440 come around to cut their zip ties, give them white 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:53.040 jumpsuits and sandwiches. Keith says that's when things take a turn. 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.560 At some point during UM the morning time, the guards 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.000 came around. They proved family just into the sale like 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.840 we were wild animals, and like wild animals, everybody ramps 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:06.439 in the front of the sale and was trying to 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.280 you know, you know, get a sandwich, and some people 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.320 got took more than their share and death. What happened? 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:17.639 What started the skirmish, The skirmish that leads to Dennis 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:23.160 Weaver being murdered. Dennis was like an older UM prisoner, 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:26.640 probably in the sixties at the time, you know, great 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:31.760 play hair, you know, and real clients of spoken guy, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.960 although Keith says Dennis Weaver isn't so soft spoken. That day, 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:40.280 he starts arguing with William Bowling, get as we didn't 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.760 get a sandwich and has something to say about it 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.040 to one of his guy named William Bowling. This started 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:50.560 an argument. William Bowling he was a bully, had a 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:54.480 reputation of kind of being a strong armed kind of guy, 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.080 you know, walking around with a you know, smirk on 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:02.240 his face, real threat, the menacing capital individual. And he 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:06.000 got into it with Dinners and uh, Bowling he was 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.879 like in hysterics basically after Dinners had you know, the 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.760 nerves to say something to him, to stand up to him, 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.560 and um, he was just going from personal posting kind 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.679 of you know, doing a gut check basically. You know, 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:20.679 I wasn't you know, one of those guys who was 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:24.280 gonna stand back and allow somebody to bullying me. And 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.679 so when he turned his attention to me, you know, 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.760 with a white cross, uh and hit him dead in 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.359 the mouth as hard as I could, and you know, 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.919 he kind of snapped out of at least shifted his 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.440 focus away from me and kind of focus you know, 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:42.360 kind of z roed in on on Dennis he shouldn't 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:48.240 change some words a few blows worth exchange and William 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:51.560 put him in the for Nelson and was choking them 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:55.199 and you know gunners began to you know, flop around 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:59.280 trying to free himself from this choke hold. Keith says, 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:03.760 as William Bowling is choking Dennis Weaver, Bowling tells two 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:08.600 other guys to jump in and help. Not long after that, uh, 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:14.680 Dennis we were expired, he died. Did someone put papers 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:18.560 in Weaver's mouth? You know? One of the ways that 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.800 the state tried to uh make it seem as if 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.000 I had his own involvement in dinnis and death. They 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:30.520 relatedly claimed that our stuff paper um down Dennis's throat. 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:35.520 It never produced the paper introduced the paper in the 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:40.159 evidence with my DNA was or anything. I didn't have 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.960 anything to do with dennis Is death. Keith also denies 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.240 the state's claim that he told the others in the 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.840 cell to make Weaver's death look like a suicide. What 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.800 did it do to you to see Dennis Weaver killed? 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.160 If you're stand there watch another human beings being killed? 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:01.800 What does that say out too? By the time then 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:04.640 this that I wasn't able to respond because I wasn't 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.159 a human being at that At that point, I've been 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:10.200 been had already been stripped of of my humans, all 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:13.959 of us were this is why you can kill somebody 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:17.439 or what soundwas only a while animal would do that. 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:21.840 But this is what we have been reduced to, not 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:25.000 just me, all of us. I mean I didn't know 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.880 that then, you know. I mean I was its sense, 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.680 the experience, a lot of regret, a lot of remorse fulfilling, 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.520 but I didn't understand it at that time in that way. 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:38.240 At that time, I didn't look at it as a 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:41.760 moral failure. I was looking at it as me looking 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:45.000 out for myself, you know, in the sound self as 0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:50.720 the sound callous. But it's difficult to find in any 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:55.040 way other than to your own self preservation. And that's 0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:59.800 what I was doing. That's what I did when Keith 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:04.919 is eventually questioned when a highway state patrol came and 0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:07.800 asked us about what happened in the sale, I along 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.159 with other prisoners, that that we were asleep, that we 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.480 didn't see what happened, because that's what you're do inside 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.320 of prison, you know, because obviously we're talking, we here 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:19.880 having this conversation and you and I about prisoners being killed, 0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:25.240 well Leslie being snitches inside of maximum security prison. So 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:29.600 you know, that was the penalty that was imposed and 0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:31.200 this is the thing that could happen to you in 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:33.760 the maximum security prison if you were known to be 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:37.480 a snitch, and so I told the authorities that I 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:43.280 was asleep. Keith wants nothing to do with the investigation, 0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:46.560 and he says that firmly plans a target on his back. 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:51.560 But refusing to talk to investigators isn't Keith's only problem, 0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:55.000 because William Bowling and the two others who allegedly took 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:58.840 part in the killing of Dennis Weaver do talk, and 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.359 they point the finger at Keith, saying he was the ringleader. 0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:07.440 This kind of gave William Bowling the room to kind 0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:10.000 of shift the blame and say that I and the 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:13.919 other several other individuals in the sale forced him to 0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:18.600 kill Dennis Weaver, which was totally obviously that what happened. 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:24.679 And that's really what my problems began, um um Leah. 0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:27.560 It was that that that kind of put me on 0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:34.480 the radar. So the investigators accuse you of basically making 0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:38.800 Bowling and others kill Weaver, then how does it go 0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:42.679 from that to them calling you or labeling you the 0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:46.840 leader of the death squad in L six. I think 0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:50.520