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Speaker 1: We not only talk, but we communicate in a way

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Speaker 1: that says more about how we feel about ourselves and

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Speaker 1: trying to persuade somebody. And the first thing you should

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Speaker 1: do is talk and communicate a set of ideas and

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Speaker 1: values of where people live their lives, which is what

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Speaker 1: anavates me, and I think this is the most important thing.

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Speaker 2: Hi. Everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.

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Speaker 2: I've known Rama Manuel for a very long time. He

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Speaker 2: worked for Bill Clinton, he worked for Barack Obama, obviously,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, I did a profile of him back

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Speaker 2: in the day when I was on sixty Minutes. I

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Speaker 2: got to know him so well, or at least research

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Speaker 2: him so well that I knew the reason his middle

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Speaker 2: finger is shorter than the others on his right hand

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Speaker 2: is because he sliced it off in a meat slicer

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Speaker 2: as a teenager when he was working at r v's Yes,

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Speaker 2: true story. So it's very exciting for me to get

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Speaker 2: a chance to catch up with him, to talk about

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Speaker 2: what's going on in the country, to talk about the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration and everything it's done, to talk about the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party and everything many people feel it hasn't done,

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Speaker 2: and everything in between So Ram Emmanuel, welcome to next question.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming, and it's great to

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Speaker 2: see you again. And I'm seeing a lot of you,

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Speaker 2: No rom mister ambassador, Congressman, you've been on to keep

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Speaker 2: a job. You've been on John Stewart, you were on

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Speaker 2: Bill Maher, you were writing for the Washington Post, you

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Speaker 2: just signed a deal with CNN, and of course most

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Speaker 2: importantly you're sitting down with me. So the question is, yeah, that.

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Speaker 1: Was like reversed order. We were building up.

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Speaker 2: What gives are you running for president or something wrong?

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Speaker 1: If I have something to say, I'll say that. But

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Speaker 1: you know, well, first of all, you know an ambassador,

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Speaker 1: you can't say anything.

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Speaker 2: So I haven't feel newly liberated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to get out of jail card, so

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Speaker 1: that's number one. But I also think things are at

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Speaker 1: a critical juncture both of the country first and foremost,

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Speaker 1: and also for the party. And I have you know,

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Speaker 1: in when I was congressman and chair of the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Congressional Campaign Committee, we had lost the two thousand presidential,

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Speaker 1: the two thousand and two midterm, and the two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four presidential kind of similar dire circumstances for the party.

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Speaker 1: But I also think in the sense of what's at stake.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going to run. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are spending time appropriately, you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously confronting Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: I mean thinking about running.

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Speaker 1: No, well, they're kind of well, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: just because I think there's so much at stake. That said,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to work, you know in two thousand,

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Speaker 1: if you thought about it in politics. In twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 1: the midterms, it's a referendum on Donald Trump and the

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Speaker 1: Republican leadership because they run both chambers, both sides of

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Avenue. But to get the public to give you

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Speaker 1: the keys to the car between twenty twenty six and

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty eight, you actually have to have a view

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Speaker 1: of fighting Donald Trump but fighting for America. And I

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Speaker 1: have both through my career working in congressman as mayor,

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Speaker 1: but also President Obama's chief of staff and senior vice or.

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Speaker 1: President Clinton thought a lot about education, healthcare, retirement, security.

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Speaker 1: Those are things I've all worked on. To me, the

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Speaker 1: thing that's most at risk is the American dream. It's

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Speaker 1: not affordable to many people, it's not accessible to many people.

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Speaker 1: And rather than just all they want is a shot,

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Speaker 1: and I think, as I said before, they've gotten the shaft.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm gonna spend my time and if I

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Speaker 1: think about that and then think about what I've worked

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Speaker 1: on and have something to offer, I'll think about it.

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Speaker 1: But it's not a yes and no. That's what I

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Speaker 1: you know, you'll know in your gut.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate how honest you are being wrong, because

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Speaker 2: you know, I've had to.

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Speaker 1: Because that's a rarity for an a magnumum no.

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Speaker 2: But I've had to ask a lot of people, you know,

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Speaker 2: during the course of my career, what are you going

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Speaker 2: to do? And they hem and haw. But I think

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Speaker 2: that's probably the most honest answer I've ever heard from somebody.

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Speaker 1: Here's my thing, which is, look, I mean, I get

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Speaker 1: the politics of fighting Trump because there's real stakes and

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Speaker 1: real interests. But then if you think also about politics,

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Speaker 1: you have to fight for the American people. And I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna spend my time as I have on education first

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Speaker 1: sex And I don't mean to go through my record,

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Speaker 1: but like we were the first city to create free

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Speaker 1: community college. You got to be average in Chicago post schools.

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Speaker 1: We made both community college transportation and books free, get

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Speaker 1: earn it. And also you couldn't get your high school

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Speaker 1: diploma unless you had a letter of acceptance for me,

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Speaker 1: either college, community college, or branch of the Armed forces

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Speaker 1: or vocational school. So we made post high school universal

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Speaker 1: for city to do it. And to me, those are

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Speaker 1: like the essentials for access to the American dream. That

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Speaker 1: not just your children. My children, they're gonna be Let's

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Speaker 1: be honest, they're gonna be okay. I mean, you worry

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Speaker 1: about them, but they're gonna be okay. They can have

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Speaker 1: they got an education of loving home, they can navigate.

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Speaker 1: For a lot of other children and families, that's not true.

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Speaker 1: And I want my time is spent thinking about how

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Speaker 1: do you make that dream accessible? And if I think

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Speaker 1: I have an answer to that, then I'm gonna I'll

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Speaker 1: do something. If I don't or it's not in your belly,

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Speaker 1: I won't.

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Speaker 2: There's so many things I want to talk to you about,

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Speaker 2: but you mentioned the mid terms, so I'm curious, you know,

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Speaker 2: are you thinking about what may happen? You're right, it

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Speaker 2: is a referendum mont Donald Trump and the Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: Do you think people are going to come out and droves,

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Speaker 2: what do you predict for the midterms?

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Speaker 1: So first of all, you you know, a month used

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Speaker 1: to feel like a year. A week now feels like

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Speaker 1: a year. So you're asking me, I want to be

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Speaker 1: clear April twenty and twenty five about what's going to

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Speaker 1: happen in November, October and November of twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: A long time that said two things that are pretty

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Speaker 1: self evident now can change. So I want to those

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Speaker 1: are all my coveyasts. Now'll just run into it. The

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Speaker 1: most fascinating thing of two weeks ago when there was

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Speaker 1: Florida and Wisconsin. While all of it was fascinating, one

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Speaker 1: was the Supreme Court election in Wisconsin. Wasn't just Milwaukee

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Speaker 1: and Madison. There was depth in the roal areas. That wow. Second,

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Speaker 1: the most fascinating thing to me was Ascambia County. It's

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Speaker 1: in Matt Gates's district. That's where Pensacola is. It's fourteen

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Speaker 1: percent veterans. The national average is six, so more than

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Speaker 1: double veterans not counting active duty in Pensacola Navy. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump took it by nineteen points. That county. The Democrats

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Speaker 1: won it plus three. It had been decades, decades since

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Speaker 1: the last Democrat won it on a federal election. So

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Speaker 1: you know, if I told you on the night Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump was elected president that the new base for the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party would be you know, veterans of the arms,

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Speaker 1: you would you would not have taken that bet. You

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Speaker 1: wouldn't taken that bet. Never possible. The second thing that's

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Speaker 1: fascinating to me is in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: and twenty twenty four in special elections, the only way

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Speaker 1: Democrats won was low turnout, high turnout. We did. Now

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Speaker 1: every election since November has been very, very high turnout,

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Speaker 1: and Democrats are short of the two Florida seats won everything.

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Speaker 1: And so it's not totally dependent on a low turnout,

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Speaker 1: high education voter for the Democrat. And so if you

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Speaker 1: look at the data today, you look at consumer sentiment.

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Speaker 1: I think the Trump vote that was anti Kamala and

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Speaker 1: the swing slash independent voter that will make up congressional

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Speaker 1: districts of the election work today. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: the map like I used to, I would say the

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Speaker 1: Democrats are going to take double digit numbers somewhere in

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Speaker 1: the kind of ten to let's say mid fifteenths. The

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Speaker 1: senate's a little rougher real estate, but you got the

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Speaker 1: Virginia governor's race in twenty twenty five. I'd have to

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Speaker 1: bet on the Democrats now, and then.

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Speaker 2: There's navigat span Burger.

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Speaker 1: But also I think you're gonna If I was doing

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Speaker 1: the other races, I would just make sure every there's

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Speaker 1: a Democratic name on every county can missioner, on every

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Speaker 1: city council, on every alder minic, all every school board,

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Speaker 1: have every nothing is left, because I think this has

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Speaker 1: get as many surf and surfboards and surfers as there

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Speaker 1: are and just fill it up because I think that's

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen. Yeah, given everything that we know,

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Speaker 1: this April, we're doing this April, We're doing this interview.

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Speaker 1: I always say this has a potential. You can feel

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Speaker 1: the momentum of this wave building.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think it's not too soon because

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Speaker 2: everybody I interview are all my followers, you know, and

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Speaker 2: I think they're a good bell weather rom about.

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Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you your feeling. I can tell

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Speaker 1: you two people I know of your followers really seriously.

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Speaker 1: Who one is my yoga instructor? She goes person pounding

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Speaker 1: me to get on your show. Is my yoga instructor Amy's.

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Speaker 2: And my yoga instructor, Well, tell her thank you, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: tell her I appreciate it. But I am doing a

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Speaker 2: lot of interviews and I get a lot of feedback

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Speaker 2: from my followers, and I have, you know, a few

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Speaker 2: million people who actually pay attention to the people I'm

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Speaker 2: speaking with, and I would say the majority of people

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Speaker 2: at least over the last several weeks. Now maybe there

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Speaker 2: was a little glimmer of hope in Wisconsin and Florida recently,

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Speaker 2: but they're like, what the hell is going on with

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Speaker 2: the Democratic Party. We'll talk about the Republicans in a moment,

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Speaker 2: but you know, words like feckless, you know, lacking direction,

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Speaker 2: where's the leader? And I'm curious if you think that's

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Speaker 2: a fair assessment.

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Speaker 1: Yes and no, that's the honest answer. So one, I

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Speaker 1: kind of I describe it as a tale of two parties.

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Speaker 1: One is, I just gave you results out in the country.

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Speaker 1: So there's Democratic voters, they're a leading and they're saying

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Speaker 1: there's massive energy and not just among Democratic voters, but

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Speaker 1: also voters who see the Democrats as a better option.

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Speaker 1: So that's once part of the narrative, moment, part of

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Speaker 1: the story, and shouldn't be ignore it because I mean,

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Speaker 1: as I grew up with, both President Clinton and President

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Speaker 1: Obama are kind of big part of my political education.

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Speaker 1: You know, elections have consequences. You want a Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: justice win an election, You want to pass the taxaization

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Speaker 1: of favor working families pass win an election. That's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's a So that's one side of the narrative. The

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Speaker 1: other side is one is is I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say limited to or constrained, but is around Washington. And

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Speaker 1: I think given the speed in which they were dealing

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Speaker 1: with incoming from President Trump, they got vertico. They couldn't

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Speaker 1: tell up from down and you know, left from right,

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Speaker 1: and they.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't that the plan Stan, you.

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Speaker 1: Know what that was his plan? Well, you got to

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Speaker 1: have your plan, I mean, and so and I think,

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Speaker 1: so let me then fast forward. And this is somewhat

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Speaker 1: influenced because of my own view about how the continuing

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Speaker 1: resolution the funding of government was not dealt with in

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Speaker 1: about think it's six weeks if I mind calculations, right,

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Speaker 1: they have to raise the deat limit and my general rules,

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Speaker 1: I said this pre that in February on This was

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Speaker 1: on the government funding one Karras Swisher's podcast. But I'll

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Speaker 1: say here for the debt limit, I said, then you

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Speaker 1: got to have principles. Well, you gotta have principles. My

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Speaker 1: principles are I would do something on tariffs, claw back

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Speaker 1: the power be on taxes, and see on healthcare. And

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Speaker 1: if you want our support for raising the deat limit.

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Speaker 1: We got three things. Now you don't meet them. You

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Speaker 1: guys have all the gavels and you have all the microphones.

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Speaker 2: That's your art of the deal man.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, yeah, you wanna art of the deal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's called win win. It's not called wind loose. You

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Speaker 1: like to win loose. Well, we're not going to be

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Speaker 1: on that side of the trade. Okay, So we want

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Speaker 1: to claw back power on tariffs because you've actually sent

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Speaker 1: the economy into a recession and working families have been

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Speaker 1: there and stayed there and then now they're there really

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Speaker 1: deeper down. B here's what we're going to do on

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Speaker 1: tax This is it relates to the wealthy and well off.

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Speaker 1: And here's what we're going to do is it relates

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Speaker 1: to medicaid and premium support. You can't cut it to

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Speaker 1: pay for tax cuts for you know, Jeff Bezos and

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk and the rest of them. Forget about it.

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Speaker 1: And that's the price. And if you don't like it,

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Speaker 1: that's okay. You're in the majority in the House, you're

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Speaker 1: the majority in the Senate. God willing and God bless

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Speaker 1: you and so and I want to say, so when

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four, when new Gingrigh try to shut

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Speaker 1: the government down.

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Speaker 2: And contract with America, Yeah, we did contract.

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Speaker 1: For America, right, well, it was a contract to America,

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Speaker 1: that's how I remember it. But we had M squared

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Speaker 1: E squared, Medicare and medicaid, education environment. Those are the principles,

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Speaker 1: and that's you do that. You can't touch Medicare and medicaid.

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Speaker 1: You can't cut education environment either. And in the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, Gingrich had a fold. Fast forward to

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. Now these are around government shutdowns, slightly different

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Speaker 1: also because working for a president's microphones slightly different than

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Speaker 1: when you're in the minority in the House. In the

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Speaker 1: House and the Senate, it was called the three piece

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Speaker 1: premium support parents, kids on their healthcare and pre existing conditions,

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Speaker 1: and so you have to have the principles you enunciate

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Speaker 1: clearly ahead of time, so you can't do it forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours beforehand. There's going to be a real need night.

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Speaker 1: The Freedom Caucus doesn't like voting for these debtlimits, okay,

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Speaker 1: which not like we like it either, but as Democrats,

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Speaker 1: but if you want our vote, here's our principles, and

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Speaker 1: they're pretty clear. Your tariffs have created nothing but havoc

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Speaker 1: in people's lives and in the four to one ks

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Speaker 1: and their savings and their college funds for their kids.

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Speaker 1: And we don't think you should cut premium supports and

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Speaker 1: medicate to do tax cuts for the rich. And here's

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Speaker 1: what we want for tax cuts. And if not, well

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Speaker 1: you know the Speaker and you know the Senate Majority

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Speaker 1: leader and you can work it out with them. And

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Speaker 1: that I think would give you the strength part that

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Speaker 1: people are looking for in direction part the Democrats need

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Speaker 1: to provide.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you owe some kind of counter narrative, right, well.

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Speaker 1: I think. Look, my rule about politics when I work

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Speaker 1: is what unifies your side and divides the other side.

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Speaker 1: The House and Senate Republicans aren't too happy about tariffs.

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Speaker 1: If you're from a agricultural driven state, so we can

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Speaker 1: either you can either go with the president, or you

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Speaker 1: can go with your state. You're in a rural state

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Speaker 1: or you're in a tough congressional district. Try cutting Medicaid

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Speaker 1: and see if your local hospital survives. So you can

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Speaker 1: either be with President Trump or you can screw your

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Speaker 1: local hospital and all the people in employees. And so

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Speaker 1: my view is I have a very simple what unites

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Speaker 1: our team and divides the other team.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that calculation is finally getting to some

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Speaker 2: Republicans who are like, holy shit, my loyalty to Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump is going to cost me. It's not going to

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Speaker 2: protect me.

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Speaker 1: You know you say that, So let me the one

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Speaker 1: thing I would say, Look, I'm surprised they've gone this

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Speaker 1: far putting their principles in a lock box. And I look,

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Speaker 1: there's very As a most ambassador, as chief of staff,

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Speaker 1: they're very good. I mean I can say this about

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Speaker 1: certain House members I worked with and certain senators Republicans.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about very decent people, smart people, care a

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Speaker 1: great deal. I am shocked what they go along with.

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Speaker 1: No Democrats. I mean, I mean, if we if any

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Speaker 1: president tried anything like this on the tariffs or anything

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Speaker 1: on the Justice Department and the FBI. Bill Clinton did

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Speaker 1: not fire Louis Free. One of the one of the

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Speaker 1: calculations was it backlash. I'm shocked at this. So I'm

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Speaker 1: you know, you say to me, when will Liver I

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Speaker 1: don't know when the repubonent's going to stand up. I'm

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Speaker 1: like the last person asked. I'm like, you know, you

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Speaker 1: must be firming your opinion. It's your principles you're flexible on.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen anything.

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Speaker 2: Like what's the explanation? You've been and watch.

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Speaker 1: Primaries, fair of primaries.

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Speaker 2: I think they're crave an addiction to power over premier.

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Speaker 1: You know you did my biography. I mean I love

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Speaker 1: public service. That's clear. Every senator and House member I

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Speaker 1: talked to that's in a slightly marginal they all talk about.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to one senator the other day. You

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Speaker 1: raise all this money, you spent all this time working,

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Speaker 1: and you hate the job. Really, so do what you

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Speaker 1: want to know. At least fifty percent of the time,

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Speaker 1: I get calculations about politics. I love politics. You weigh

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Speaker 1: equities and the trade offs, but you literally spend all

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Speaker 1: this time running around the country raising millions of millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars with people you hope you sometimes you don't

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Speaker 1: want to talk to ever again for a job you hate.

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Speaker 2: It, doesn't they hate the job.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people think a lot of part of

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Speaker 1: Washington is specifically on the legislative side, is broken.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're frustrated, but that doesn't mean they hate it, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think they're frustrated. They went there with

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Speaker 2: good intentions.

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Speaker 1: No no, no, no, that's a good catch. Hate it's

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Speaker 1: wing over and spilling over to the other side of

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Speaker 1: the tracks. They're beyond frustrated because it doesn't do. They

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Speaker 1: came to do stuff and with earnest interest. We may

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Speaker 1: not agree on, but real earnest interest. And I worked

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Speaker 1: with Republican senators and members of cars and Democrats. But

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Speaker 1: it's just like broke, it's a broken institution that doesn't perform.

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Speaker 2: Who do you see is the rising stars in the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party?

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Speaker 1: Rom Well, there's a lot of talent, you know, once

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Speaker 1: you start naming names.

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Speaker 2: Can I name some names?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean, just to get your reaction. Sure, Corey Booker.

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Speaker 1: We were mayors together, very eloquent, beyond eloquent, understands both

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Speaker 1: big cities and a big state.

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Speaker 2: Talent Gretchen Whitmer.

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Speaker 1: Big fan of Gretchen, and I think she's managed if

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Speaker 1: and again I don't mean to look to politics, but

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Speaker 1: she managed a purple state effectively and dealt with the

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Speaker 1: legislative branch and made it. I think a was kind

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Speaker 1: of people forget this when everybody talks about the politics today.

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Speaker 1: When she says is pay the damn build the damn roads,

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Speaker 1: I mean she caught the mood of frustration. Well, Josh Shapiro,

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Speaker 1: we were, you know, not only texting yesterday, but he

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Speaker 1: called me on Tuesday. We were having a conversation. I'm

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Speaker 1: a fan as well.

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Speaker 2: Corey Booker is black. Obviously, you have Gretchen Whitmer, She's

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Speaker 2: a woman. Josh Shapiro is Jewish. Do you think they

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Speaker 2: could be elected?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? You you know, so you cut it off there.

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Speaker 1: I was thought, you so let me. I am going

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Speaker 1: to go, so let me say why I think so?

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Speaker 1: As Okay, rom Israel Emanuel I got elected in the

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Speaker 1: north side of the city of Chicago. The predecessors that

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Speaker 1: had the seat before me, Dan Rossenkowski, Roman Pucinski, Franken Nunzio,

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Speaker 1: Mike Flanagan, present whole There's Mike Quigley and Rob Legoyevitch.

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Speaker 1: That's Chicago, right, but no, no, which name does not

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Speaker 1: fit in there? Yeah, Ram israelimant. It was a two

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Speaker 1: percent Jewish community and when I ran for Congress, President

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Speaker 1: Obama used to tease me I was a Birther before

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Speaker 1: anybody I had showed my birth certificate. They had to

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Speaker 1: proved that I was born in the country I could serve,

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Speaker 1: and it was an issue. And it was only two

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Speaker 1: The district was only two percent Jewish, and it got

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Speaker 1: ugly because I was running principally against a Polish woman

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Speaker 1: in a Polish district and some of her backers said

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Speaker 1: some ugly things about my Judaism, and say, I'll say

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Speaker 1: to you what I have said. Then I know the people.

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Speaker 1: I met him in their l stops. I met him

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Speaker 1: on their front stoops, good people raising their kids to

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Speaker 1: know right from wrong, and I trust their judgment and

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Speaker 1: it turned out right. When I was Ambassador to Japan,

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Speaker 1: somebody had spray painted on the fence Nazi symbols, and

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Speaker 1: the next day, still don't know who. Some neighbor went

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Speaker 1: over and painted over. It never came forward. I've asked

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Speaker 1: other so was there ugliness there was ugliness and there

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Speaker 1: was a just generosity of spirit. So anti Semitism always

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Speaker 1: existed always, It's just much more public and people think

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Speaker 1: it's more acceptable.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: That's one thing we did work for President Obama. So yes,

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Speaker 1: there's more than a chance for African American to get elected.

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Speaker 1: What's interesting on women? This is it political? I'm probably

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Speaker 1: going to get yelled at, so I should watch myself.

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Speaker 1: But I'm here with you. What could go wrong? It's

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Speaker 1: if you look at Europe Prime Minister Maloney in Italy,

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Speaker 1: conservative margat Thatcher, conservative Chancellor Merkel, and Germany considered Christian

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party in there put Scandinavia slightly as I So

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Speaker 1: I could see in America where it's more likely the

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Speaker 1: first female president comes out of the conservative philosophy than

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Speaker 1: the progressive philosophy.

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Speaker 2: Why is that?

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Speaker 1: I just think it has more to do with the voters, etc.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, let me checkmate what I just said.

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Speaker 1: A governor will have proven something that has a voice

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Speaker 1: in the language of a chief executive. You know, a

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Speaker 1: legislator thinks operates. When you run for president and when

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Speaker 1: you're president, you have to project three qualities strength, confidence

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Speaker 1: and optimism and it's more likely to come from a

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Speaker 1: chief executive than a legislature, and the public's more likely

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Speaker 1: to accept a former chief executive as a president than

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Speaker 1: a legislature. And I could be proven wrong, but that's

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Speaker 1: my take.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, it's Katie Couric. You know I'm always on

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Speaker 2: the go between running my media company, hosting my podcast,

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Speaker 2: and of course covering the news. And I know that

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Speaker 2: to keep doing what I love, I need to start

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Speaker 2: caring for what gets me there, my feet. That's why

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Speaker 2: I decided to try the Good Feet stores personalized arch

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Speaker 2: support system. I met with a Good Feet arch support

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Speaker 2: specialist and after a personalized fitting, I left the store

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Speaker 2: Visit goodfeet dot com to learn more, find the nearest store,

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Speaker 2: or book your own free personalized fitting. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: ask you about Pete Budhajedge because I think Pete is

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Speaker 2: one of the most impressive politicians of modern times. I

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Speaker 2: love the compliment, I love that he goes on Fox.

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Speaker 2: I think he's extraordinarily eloquent. And again, I'm not getting

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Speaker 2: into identity politics, but I am just as a practical matter,

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Speaker 2: could a gay man, in your view, be elected president

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Speaker 2: of the United States?

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Speaker 1: Yes, really, I just you know, I got in a

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Speaker 1: little trouble when I was ambassador. I know you found

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Speaker 1: that hard to believe. There's a lot of characters for me.

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Speaker 1: You yeah, but they're still an ally. Look at that

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00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: three years later, there's still in a so you know,

433
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: Japan's very conservative culture. I with other ambassadors, so I

434
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: want to be very clear. It's like twenty of us

435
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: when it came to LGBTQ legislation, kind of would let

436
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: a public notion. This is right before the G seven

437
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: happens in Hiroshima and they finally passed like their first

438
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: piece of legislation on LGBTQ rights just basically no discrimination permitted.

439
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: And it was always interesting to me that in Japan,

440
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: like eighty some percent were pro gay marriage, but the legislative,

441
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: the diet, their parliament had yet to pass it and

442
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: still hasn't yet. In the United States, gay marriage is

443
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: permitted by law, yet we don't have close to eighty

444
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: percent for it. So in many ways our legal and

445
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 1: political systems, we're ahead of our public opinion. They're their

446
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: public opinion was ahead of their legal and political systems.

447
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: So my own take is it is doable, but I

448
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: think there's going to be a comfort level that has yet.

449
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: And I know I'm gonna get yelled at, oh blah

450
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: blah blah, But you're asking me a political question, so

451
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: I'm giving you a political answer, not my personal views.

452
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: Somebody that led the effort in both Chicago and Illinois

453
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: for the recognition of marriage equality. But I think politically

454
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: it's going to happen. Just don't think it's going to

455
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: happen immediately.

456
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: Another person that people are speculating about is Gavin Newsome,

457
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: and that's nothing new, but he has a podcast and

458
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 2: I'm curious how you feel wrong about him, and.

459
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,239
Speaker 1: Biting taping with him tomorrow, so I feel very good.

460
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: His guest selection is brilliant, you know, he.

461
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: Said, other than you, he's had people like Steve Bannon,

462
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk. People think it's making a play to be,

463
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 2: you know, less progressive, kind of open crossing the aisle

464
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 2: whatever however you want to describe it, you know, And

465
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 2: there's this sort of whole philosophy I think illustrated by

466
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: Bill Maher's visit to Donald Trump in the White House,

467
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: like how much do you engage with the other side?

468
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 2: And I'm just curious about first of all, you know,

469
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: Gavin having those people on his podcasts and Bill Maher

470
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 2: going to dinner with Donald Trump and saying he was

471
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,479
Speaker 2: gracious and he's not a crazy guy. He just plays

472
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: a crazy guy on TV. Now he was critical about

473
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: other things, but basically saying, listen, we've got to reach

474
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: across the aisle. And you know, if you truly believe

475
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: democracy is at risk and the things that are being

476
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: done are morally corrupt, what is the best way to

477
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 2: approach it being conciliatory or just you being the resistance.

478
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: You are asking a middle child of three boys, because

479
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: I used to say the middle children wrote a book

480
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: War or Peace. We could do either. So let me

481
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: just you know, I'm going to give you a story,

482
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: an anecdote to illustrate a point. I was one that

483
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: convinced President Obama to put Ray la Hood, Republican congressman

484
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: from Illinois, in his cabinet. Now, Ray and I became

485
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 1: dear friends. Why we used to fly back after congressional votes,

486
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: and he was always trying to catch a flight to Peoria.

487
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: We'd land and ohere and one time he's trying to

488
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: make a short connection and I was like at eight

489
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: C and he was like at twenty eight. So I

490
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: went back. I said, hey, Ray, you got to catch

491
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: that flight. I said, when you take my seat, I'll

492
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: just because I'm going to just take the train home.

493
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: And then we started up this friendship. That friendship led

494
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: not just to Ray getting the cabinet slot and we're

495
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,479
Speaker 1: still dear friends, but more importantly, every other Wednesday when

496
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: we were in Washington for votes, he would have six

497
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: Republican congressmen. I would have six Dimorans. So we used

498
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: to do private dinners quiet. When I say private, just upstairs,

499
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: ties down, sleeves rolled up, and we just let at it.

500
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: And it was six d's six hours and it was

501
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: different every time. And there's a lot there's friendships there,

502
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: and we built friendships. There's not a profile story that's

503
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: done in my tenure that Senator Dan Sullivan, Republican from Alaska,

504
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: Susan Collins is a good friend in that effort Todd

505
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: Young out of Indiana. So I do believe in not

506
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: only keeping those channels open. A lot of those people

507
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: when things have happened or asked for clarity or talks

508
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: to discussions. Also true about you know, Alan Simpson who

509
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 1: just passed away. So I don't think you can you

510
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: can have disagreements, I don't you want to use the

511
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: cliche or you could disagree without being disagreeable, but that's

512
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: kind of an apropos distinction. And not only and then

513
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: also for politics, because I mean, if you don't have communication,

514
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna have misunderstanding and that can lead to a

515
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: bad place. But also sometimes you're gonna build up in

516
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: your head of perception and they're gonna explain to you, A,

517
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: that's not the motivation, and B here's my actual bottom lines.

518
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: So it's kind of yes and no, and it's both

519
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: and we'll have you know. And if we're going to disagree,

520
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: it's okay. We'll just go slug it out on election day.

521
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: That's okay. But there's other things that when you cross

522
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: a line of certain things and they're principled, no, lie,

523
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: that's it. And so you I can't give you here's

524
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: a hard and fast rule. I suppose if I say that,

525
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: and then here's my hard and fast rule. Right, always

526
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: have a line of communication that people know how to

527
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: talk to because then no, there's no misunderstandings. And I'm

528
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: thinking in the context of one of either House to

529
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: Senate or White House to the legislative branch. And you know,

530
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: worst case scenario, I say something to you which you

531
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: don't want to hear, and you say something to me

532
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear. That's the worst case center.

533
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: So you would have dinner with Donald Trump if he invited.

534
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: I probably bring a food taster. But yeah, for him, yeah, yeah,

535
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: I would sit down with him. You know, if he

536
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: says something, and I would tell you. But nobody's ever

537
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: described Rama Manuel as shy in reserve. I tell him

538
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: what I think, and I think what he's done in

539
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: the divisiveness of America at the very time. I think

540
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: what he's done on these tariffs and what it's done

541
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: to families is horrible. At every great juncture in America

542
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: when we've had divisions, we've had been blessed by presidents

543
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: who've found our foundation of common sense. And I think

544
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: one of the there's no let me say this also

545
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: is when I lived for three years overseas, there is

546
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: nothing I see around the globe that scares me for America.

547
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: But you go overseas. I learned a lot about Japan.

548
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: I learned a lot about the end of Pacific. You

549
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: know what I learned the most about America. And there's

550
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: nothing that scares me about the future that if we're

551
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: organized can and have a consensus about our interests in

552
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: this country that were unstoppable. And it's one thing, you know,

553
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: I want to tell you what I actually one thing

554
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: is I'm thinking about I think this well and I

555
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: wrote about it in two thousand and five. I think

556
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: the country needs universal national service, Katie, our generation, we

557
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: have a different runway.

558
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: Who's the general whom Crystal and there's others, but he

559
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 2: is really championing.

560
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: I had him actually in Chicago for Chicago Stories podcast

561
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: I did and it was that was my podcast when

562
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: I was mayor, and we talked about this and I'm

563
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: and the reason I say it is diversity is not

564
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: a guaranteed strength has an incredible potential, but it also

565
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: could be an adversary. Our adversaries are actually trying to

566
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: divide America. And if you don't have an agreement on

567
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: the foundation, the diversity doesn't work for you. If you do,

568
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: it's incredible strength. And when I looked at like the

569
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,239
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln and the Ronald Reagan aircraft carriers that were

570
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: in Japan when I was there. Started under round regular

571
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: foreign citizens can serve our armed forces or in their citizenship.

572
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: And I did a citizenship ceremony seventeen individuals, eleven countries,

573
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: three continents. Here are these people from the African continent,

574
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: Latin you know, South America, except other parts of the world,

575
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: into Pacific serving America's interests, it's national security, it's ideals,

576
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: and weren't even citizens. And yet on that ship that

577
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: has aircraft carriers five thousand plus people, it's like a

578
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: little city there was seeing there was people from all

579
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: part walks of life, all parts of the country, all faiths,

580
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: but with a purpose and a mission and an agreement

581
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: on their values. That's what the country needs. And I

582
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: were not just in you know, this ship of state,

583
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: except were more than just an aircraft carrier. I think

584
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: what the country needs is that experience. Were a kid

585
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: from the South side of Chicago and an individual from

586
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: rural Arkansas where they're doing something together and it doesn't

587
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: have to be just a uniform. You can be and

588
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: teach for America. You can be doing an environmental cleanup.

589
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: You can do literacy, get us out of our silos. Well.

590
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: So this is where both Iran and I don't mean

591
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: to do this, So don't if you have stock and meta.

592
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: But social media Facebook are dividing us. China, Russia and

593
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: Iran are trying to exacerbate our differences. Social media has

594
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: not brought us together. It has broken us down into little,

595
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: little different categories. We have adopted that language and that idea,

596
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: and we need to find what brings us together. And

597
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: I think nothing does it like an experience, And I

598
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: do believe. And then I say, this is a father

599
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: with both a son active duty in the Navy and

600
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: a daughter on reserve. There is something unifying to that

601
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: experience that will be with them not just their time,

602
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: but the rest of their lives. And rather than have

603
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: a generation growing up on defining what the rights are,

604
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: I like them to actually spend a little time also

605
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: understanding appreciation with theirs responsibilities are. And I think that

606
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: would make America a much stronger country. And then there's

607
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: nothing China's doing that intimidates me. Once we get that

608
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: worked out, do.

609
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: You think that would ever happen?

610
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: Yes? Really, yeah, But it requires an oval office leadership. Look,

611
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: President Obama set up AmeriCorps in the first I think

612
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: it's seven months of President Obama's tenure. We doubled. This

613
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: was when Ted Kennedy was ill. He and John Mccainaanna Bill.

614
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: We doubled the support for national service, both Peace Corps, AmeriCorps,

615
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: et cetera. Absolutely. Now, I particularly have a bias towards

616
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,479
Speaker 1: the Armed services because of the needs. But I don't

617
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: think a uniform and I do think it should be

618
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: a mandatory six months of public service to the country,

619
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: to your community, yes, and I do think the country

620
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: would back it up.

621
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: You mentioned President Obama. I'm sure you guys are still

622
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,479
Speaker 2: good friends. I mean, what does he think of what's

623
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: going on wrong?

624
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: I spent two years speaking for hum going to do

625
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: it now, but I based on everything I know about

626
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: his values, his interests, his beliefs, He's I'm sure fit

627
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: to be tied about where we are both as a country,

628
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: what we are doing to ourselves. This is self inflicted

629
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: right now, nobody's done anything to us, So just take

630
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: a step back. Tina hasn't done anything. Dorkorrea hasn't done anything.

631
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: The biggest challenge we have in the world right now

632
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 1: is America's credibility shot. You can't do squat without trust

633
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: and credibility. We took our allies and treated him like crap,

634
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: and they were poised to double down on America and

635
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: double down on our collective interests, and we spit in

636
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: their face. It's crazy.

637
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: Why do you think Trump's doing what he's doing? You know,

638
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: I think a lot of That's what I.

639
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: Think President Obama would say, But he's here, he can

640
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: speak for himself.

641
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: Tell him he needs to do. Tell your yoga tones

642
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: the instructor to call Barack Obama. Why do you think

643
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: he's doing a lot of the stuff he's doing with tariffs,

644
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 2: with you know, putin you know, all these different things.

645
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: Everyone I think is really scratching their heads, like, what

646
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: is the endgame? What is the point? Why are you

647
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: doing this?

648
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 1: No, it's interesting to me, So let me do one

649
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: of You know, having been in the White House for

650
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: eight years of my life, the one thing he talked

651
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: constantly about was tariffs. The one thing they couldn't do

652
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: is tariffs. The one thing he said, will never no no.

653
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five is the one thing they knew

654
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 1: how to execute, which I happen to think gives credit

655
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: to the O and B director void. So it's weird

656
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: to me that the thing he said mentioned most they

657
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: had no idea what to do about. It's the most chaotic, disorganized,

658
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: disruptive and on goal I've ever seen in politics, and

659
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: has exposed the President of the United States is very

660
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: weak and not consistent and if the mark could go

661
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: sideways one day, he'll change his opinion and has shown

662
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: all the vulnerability, no strength, and no consistency. On the

663
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: other hand, the one thing he said I have nothing

664
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: to do with that never never is the only thing

665
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: they've executed with some kind of precision. So it's like

666
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: a split personality to me, that's one which one did

667
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: they either twenty twenty five, All the cuts, all the

668
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: things that they're operating, all the people they are getting

669
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: rid of, and the way they're going about it and

670
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: freezing and tacks on universities, I can just go through

671
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: the whole list with you. But that they's shut down

672
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: during the campaign. How many times did he say in

673
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: the campaign Trump the tariffs the most beautiful word, and

674
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: he said it everywhere. I'm going to raise tariffs because tariffs.

675
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: We're going to solve measles. From what I know, they

676
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: can have that tech every day. Tariffs were going to

677
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: solve every problem. You had a problem tariffs. You had

678
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: this problem for tariffs.

679
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: Well, he didn't believe them about Project twenty twenty five.

680
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: Then I didn't believe it ready breaking news. I didn't

681
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: believe it word he said. And but to me, what's weird?

682
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: He mentioned it all the time, and there was no

683
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: strategic thought at all around it. The one thing he

684
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: never mentions that I have nothing to do with is

685
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: the one thing that there was strategy around. That's what's weird.

686
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: So two strategy that's George Bush. Yeah, okay from Saturday

687
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: Night Life. Uh no, he actually said, I know he did.

688
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: Then they carried it out and made a kind of

689
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: a nameplate. But the second thing is, and here's to me,

690
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 1: what's so a component of what's reckless. We spent five

691
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: years convincing both Europe and our allies into Pacific to

692
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: ligne with US vis a vis isolating China, and they

693
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: were all there. It was as as set a table

694
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: as you could have, and we didn't really this White

695
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: House specifically, the President did not appreciate how much China

696
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: was in the jailhouse. They were exporting their own domestic

697
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: economic problems, destroying their other countries, local industrial economies, and

698
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 1: countries who are willing to organize around the United States

699
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: and follow America's leadership. And now we're in a situation

700
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: China gets a get out of jail card, we put

701
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: ourselves back into jail, and we've made ourselves the problem.

702
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: And China does it looks like the good, responsible adult,

703
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: and we look like the drunken adult walking around.

704
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: Which will lead a lot of countries into China's arms.

705
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: Well, now we lead them into China's arms, lead them

706
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: away from standing so solder with us. I'll give you

707
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: one specific example. We spent I spent a lot of

708
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: time on this. Our export controls of high technology against China,

709
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: had Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and the Dutch standing socihoulders shoulder

710
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: with the United States, and China felt it we set

711
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: them back. Now a week ago, South Korea and Japan

712
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: having spent lots of hours building that alliance with the

713
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: United States at Camp David, we had an accomplished and

714
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: though it was historic, China, South Korea, and Japan are

715
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: aligning both their foreign policy and their economic interests against

716
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: the United States. We're isolated and Samsung, one of the

717
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: biggest producers of chips in the world, just to cut

718
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: a deal with the Chinese company that is against the

719
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: interests of the export controls. And why did that happen?

720
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: Because nobody trusts the United States and right when you

721
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: needed allies most we don't have any allies. Were the enemy,

722
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: were the problem, And this didn't have to happen. It

723
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 1: just this did not have to happen. That's what's so weird.

724
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: It's literally we treated friend like foe, and we treated

725
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: foe like friend. Putin is sitting over there and stole

726
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: the president. Yes, I love your ceasefire, except for these

727
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: twenty five conditions. And so you know, in the name

728
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: of his Orthodox Christian church, he bombed people on Easter

729
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: in Ukraine, killed thirty four people on Easter. It's a

730
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: very Christian thing to do. And Putin knows there's no

731
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: responsibility from the United States. Did you ever think your journals,

732
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: you and I collectively here, what do we got about

733
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: sixty years in watching or participating in the public lass. Okay,

734
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we're not going to do a real math. Okay,

735
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: we're going to do it. Did you ever think in

736
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: your lifetime the United States at the United Nations would

737
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: vote with Russia, China, Belarus, North Korea, and Iran and

738
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: all yeah, okay, well it just happened, and against England, France, Germany, Japan, Korea, Australia.

739
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: We aligned ourselves in both principle and politics with Russia

740
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: that represses and kills people, China that sent the vegas

741
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: into camps and represses people, North Korea, belarusa has no

742
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: freedoms and arrest and kills people as their own citizens.

743
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: And all right, that's what we do. I knew. I

744
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: if somebody had told me that was going to have

745
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: I said, you take a cup and get it to

746
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: the lab. Give me a break.

747
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: What okay? So what the hell? Why? Because I've been

748
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 2: talking to so many people who are experts on strong

749
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 2: men and authoritarian governments, and is there an explanation other

750
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 2: than the fact that Donald Trump wants to be a dictator?

751
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 1: No? See you not? You kay, because it is your

752
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: podcast and I'm not allowed to do that. But no,

753
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: I'm not going there. There was always a short changing

754
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: that it was just an affinity for styles of autocrats.

755
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: There is that there is a component. I mean, look,

756
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: he says, I like, g look how he controls one

757
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: point four billion people. So there is an affinity for this.

758
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: You mentioned Victor Orbon during the debate.

759
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: Okay, but he also said that President Putin and him

760
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: gone through a lot together. Who knew they were dating? Okay,

761
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: but don't underestimate the philosophical agreement he does it. I mean,

762
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: I've said this literally three months ago and a piece

763
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 1: in the Post. He has a strategic alignment with them

764
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: about spheres of influence. That's all the only way you

765
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: can explain Greenland, Canada, Panama and that whole idea. He

766
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: believes Latin in Central North America and Central America and

767
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 1: South America are America's sphere of influence into Pacific, that's

768
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: China's pond. Europe, Well, keep going until it is not comfortable.

769
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: And he he agrees with that. So does he stylistically

770
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: like the strong man? Yes? Does he like the fact

771
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: that they have critics get arrested, Yes, he does, but

772
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: he also philosophically agrees with them. And here's the thing.

773
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 2: More land, more influence, more power.

774
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's an old politics. And here's what he

775
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: doesn't understand. One. Putin and g are laughing at himse

776
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: they're good at this game. This is not America's game.

777
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: Hasn't been America's game a long time, over one hundred years.

778
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: Our game is what we just did. The reason look, Poland,

779
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: the Czech Republic, Lithuania, Finland, Sweden moved west into NATO.

780
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: NATO didn't move east. They moved west because they prefer

781
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: freedom versus the Russian bearer. They know it firsthand. They

782
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: don't want it. Okay, he doesn't appreciate that, has no

783
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: sensibility that. And on China, the reason our allies are

784
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: working with us because they need a want and desire,

785
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: a counterweight to an uncontrolled, untethered, uninhimbered China and America,

786
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: through our allies, they're not burdens. They're force multiplayers at

787
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 1: every level. The number one foreign investor in the United

788
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: States of America US history for two hundred Japan four

789
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: years in a row. One million Americans work for him.

790
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: Forty eight percent of the investments are all in manufacturing.

791
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: The single largest purchaser of American treasuries, which we're going

792
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: to need a lot of Japan. Know what do we

793
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: do spit in their face? Nope, you're going to see

794
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: this what you know what your mother used to say,

795
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 1: what goes around comes from right? How many times you

796
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: hear that?

797
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 2: How are you've gotten too big for your purchase?

798
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? And he's and he's now going to learn what

799
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: it means. And America's alone, and he thinks he's going

800
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: to play their game. That's not our game.

801
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 2: And you don't think this is going to end well.

802
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I don't see how it can.

803
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 2: Because he tries to turn bad qualities into good qualities.

804
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: You know this, he'll come unpredictable, you know. And you

805
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: I know you've said he's a terrible negotiator.

806
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: But will you tell me he negotiated a deal with

807
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: China and not one thing happened in it. That's a

808
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: bad deal. He tried to He negotiated with North Korea?

809
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 1: Not why? Because he wants it more than them. Tell

810
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: me how?

811
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 2: Let me ask you how Bannada, Mexico? And how's inflation going?

812
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: Day one? How's you the peace in Ukraine? Day one?

813
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: He wants to deal better than Putin. Some Putin knows it.

814
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, it's me, Katie Couric. You know, if you've

815
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 2: been following me on social media, you know I love

816
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: to cook or at least try, especially alongside some of

817
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen,

818
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 2: Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman, and Ininagarten. So I started a

819
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: free newsletter called good Taste to share recipes, tips and

820
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 2: kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecuric dot com slash

821
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 2: good Taste. That's k A t I E C O

822
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: U r I c dot com slash good Taste. I

823
00:47:49,840 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 2: promise your taste buds will be happy you did. Why

824
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 2: do you think people still just worship him? I think

825
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 2: there's a lot of Americans still do.

826
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, because I do think this gets back

827
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: to kind of where we started on electoral politics.

828
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: And the Democratic Party.

829
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 1: Well, yes, about the Democrats and yes, So my take

830
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: on twenty twenty four, Katie is there's two parts to it,

831
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: or three rather one. When seventy percent of the country

832
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: thinks it's heading in the wrong direction, that's just structurally

833
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: against an incumbent. It got worse from Afghanistan and the

834
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: more President Biden kept saying, oh the economy's good. The

835
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: economy's good. The headwinds went from twenty miles an hour

836
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: to seventy miles an hour. Second below that. I kind

837
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: of think of it as two races. So President Biden's

838
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: nine down, Kamala Harris gets tapped. She runs on the

839
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: economy all right through the debate, and she goes to

840
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: plus three. That's a she had an eleven point swing.

841
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: That's not a statistical error. The day after the debate,

842
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: it's like a schizophrenia. She goes from the economy to democracy.

843
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: Now she cared about democracy, which you and I both do.

844
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: We were yes on a low I can't speak for

845
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: how you vote, but I can speak for me why

846
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: we dropped? What got us eleven point twelve point swing?

847
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: I have no idea third, which is then to the

848
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: core of your question, which is there are three things

849
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: in the last twenty years that I think change for America.

850
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: I think this again gets to the core question of

851
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: what I care most about, which is In two thousand

852
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: and three, President Bush leads the country to a war

853
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: of choice based on a lie there was no yellow

854
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: cake from Niger. Still never Thousands of young men and

855
00:49:55,320 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: women lose their lives and their livelihood, no needes, no arms, arms,

856
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 1: and we spent a trillion dollars on a failed experiment

857
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: built on a lie, and not one person ever held

858
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: accountable for the worst foreign policy disaster in American history.

859
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: Five years later, there's this massive financial meltdown. People lose

860
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: their homes, and the fat bankers are asking for the

861
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: demanding their bonuses, and not one of those sobs go

862
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: to jail, and they're still like impervious that they shocked

863
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: that nobody would give them their bonus. And people have

864
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: no homes, they have no livelihood, they have no equity

865
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: left for their retirement. So twice in a short period

866
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: of time, both a lie and liar loans destroy people's lives,

867
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: and nobody in the elite or in the establishment is

868
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: held accountable. During President Bombas's tenure, I argued for this

869
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: old testament justice that I believed we should have done

870
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: before healthcare. But that's why the present could pay big

871
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 1: bucks to make big decisions. Fast forward later, twelve years later,

872
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: you have COVID and we're running and it's the most

873
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: disruptive thing in people's lives. As I often said that

874
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: COVID was bad for the body and not really great

875
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: for the body politic either, and schools got disrupted, work

876
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: habits got disrupted, people's just everything got turned. And Democrats

877
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: went from the anti establishment against the war against bankers

878
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 1: to scientists telling people how to live their lives closer.

879
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: Schools just sit in the corner. This is what science.

880
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: When I grew up in a medical home, you get

881
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: a cut, you get a second opinion. And these scientists

882
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: walked around like they were experts. They had never seen

883
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: anything like this. Do you know this? I care deeply

884
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: about this. Six months in we were and seek and

885
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,800
Speaker 1: I had massive arguments about this as former mayor with

886
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: eighty four percent of the kids are from poverty. What

887
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 1: are you doing closing schools? These kids are at home,

888
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: no education, and we're seeing the consequence of it. And

889
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: so you tell me why. As he said to President Trump,

890
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 1: I will be the instrument of your rage. And people

891
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: are angry, and you and I are doing this. In

892
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: New York this interview, right not far from here, a

893
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: ceo was shot killed. People cheered the killer. There was

894
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: no like what happened to empathy. That tells you they

895
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 1: never even met the ceo. They don't know and even

896
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: some elected officials said, well, you can understand people's killing.

897
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: And that's so when we think of politics, Well you

898
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 1: study this college versus non college, urban versus rural, male

899
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: versus female, black versus white. Well, I'll give you the

900
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: biggest divide, establishment versus everybody else. And the everybody else

901
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: is sick and tired of established walking around because they

902
00:52:54,760 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: basically got three big things wrong and they feel like

903
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: no culpability or accountability or which is like what I

904
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: would do. I'm sorry we messed up. Not I didn't

905
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 1: agree with the Iraq war. I was on the other

906
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: side of the financial piece. But literally people have seen

907
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: the elite never held accountable and domin.

908
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 2: How do you hold people accountable for COVID? I mean,

909
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 2: you know, I think people made their best decisions based

910
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 2: on the information they had. And you'd be singing a

911
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 2: very different song if a lot of kids had died

912
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: of COVID but they just going to school.

913
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: But here's of course I would. But it was self

914
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: evident within six months.

915
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 2: You're saying that data the data was.

916
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, we closed the schools for two years.

917
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: The data is evident. We're now at the worst reading

918
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: and mass scores in thirty years, full stop. It's also

919
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: evident kids that are in red states that open schools

920
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: earlier are slightly better than kids that grew up in

921
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: blu states and cities. Just it's a fact. You look

922
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: at it, you get argued out. Third, within six months,

923
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: it was getting to be very clear that if you

924
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: didn't have pre existing conditions and you weren't elderly, the

925
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 1: severity of COVID was very limited. It was very clear

926
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: among young kids almost zero.

927
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,959
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, why do you think the establishment

928
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: that you blamed for this was so slow to realize this?

929
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,919
Speaker 2: I mean, what was in it for them to keep

930
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 2: kids out of school?

931
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, there's a tonal piece, let alone substantive. Okay, totally.

932
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: You said, look, we don't have all the data, but

933
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: what we're looking at, and a lot of people I

934
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: get early on information, but a year into it you

935
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: had patterns of information. You also, on the other hand,

936
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: I don't mean to absolve the scientist. You had a

937
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: president of United States talking about lysol and other things,

938
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: and so you were running against the person with the

939
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:10,280
Speaker 1: biggest microphone each Bleach. I couldn't remember it was Bleacher myself,

940
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: thank you for the ten yard penalty for being the

941
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 1: wrong guest. So that to me was I do think.

942
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that people had a nefarious motivation, but

943
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: there was no sense that we were in uncharted territories,

944
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: no sense that this is our best guest, and it

945
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: was a guess. And when the data started becoming overwhelming,

946
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: we didn't want to change our guests. So that's the

947
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: rear view mirror. Now what's the windshield. I would be

948
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: immediately going into one on one tutoring for kids that

949
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: are behind, so you have to stay afterwards, We're going

950
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: to have longer school days as it relates to reading

951
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 1: time and math times until we catch up, including summer,

952
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: so we don't let the summer read what's called the

953
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 1: summer slide set in.

954
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 2: Is that what Alabama and Mississippi are doing.

955
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: One of the things they have done is both the

956
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 1: the times have been more concentrated on topic. That's one

957
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: kind of common theme. Two early intervention common theme, third

958
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: back to fundamentals common theme, and using one on one

959
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: time is a common theme. So yes, but there's patterns

960
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: of success here, or rather not success success against the tide.

961
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: But we need a national emergency. Now, when you go

962
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: back to Ronald Reagan's A Nation at Risk Bloom report,

963
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 1: then all the way to President Bush's Leave No Child Behind,

964
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: President Obama's Race to the Top, President Clinton's Teachers of

965
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:45,760
Speaker 1: Excellence hundred thousand, everybody has had a touchstone of education

966
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 1: reform and accountability that step by step over thirty years,

967
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: we saw improvement for certain communities. We were at the

968
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: top tier of international standards. Other communities, it was incremental

969
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: but steady progress in the right to lace. We are

970
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: at a thirty year reading loan, a thirty year mathful.

971
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: Do you have that sense of emergency? Do you have

972
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 1: that sense of crisis? You're shaking A. I don't think

973
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: you could.

974
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 2: I do.

975
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: But do you think hearing out of the national leaders, No, oh, okay,

976
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: I do. I know you do. And yeah, I wouldn't

977
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: be here if I didn't know you share that. Yeah,

978
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: and there's no sense. Robert Reagan called together. There was

979
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: the report on a Nation at Risk.

980
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 2: Well they got rid of the Department of Education.

981
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: Well they've starved it. President Bush did Leave No Child Behind,

982
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: and the accountability and the testing, etcetera. You could have

983
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 1: reformed that, but we threw it out.

984
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 2: People hated that, well, they hated it because we went

985
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 2: from to the test.

986
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: Versus testing to teach. Testing was an information to inform teaching,

987
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: and we were teaching to the test. That said, you

988
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: didn't need to throw it all out. It's pretty clear

989
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: that started a bad cycle. Margaret Spelling has done some

990
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: really good, interesting work on this. President Obama had races

991
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: at the top, but everything led to one place improvement

992
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: on reading a mass course. To me, we are in

993
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: that emergency moment now, and a president with a modicum

994
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: of interest would call an emergency meeting say Okay, we're

995
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 1: going to fight about taxes, we're going to fight about tariffs,

996
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: kids reading, no politics, here's what we're going to have

997
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: to do, and then hold the governors accountable for a

998
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: ninety day plan on what they're going to do on

999
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: one on one tutoring, basics, et cetera. But what do

1000
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: we do close Department of Education or starve at defunds.

1001
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: That's that's our answer to China.

1002
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 2: I want to ask you a couple more questions, and

1003
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to let you go because I've been You've

1004
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 2: been so generous with your time. Wrong, But I want

1005
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 2: to ask you about Oh, good, good, I'm glad I

1006
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 2: could be here for you.

1007
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I left my Blue Cross and Blue Shield card.

1008
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 2: At the front desk, you know, for the rest of

1009
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 2: this administration. And perhaps if you listen to Steve Bannon

1010
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 2: another Trump term on a scale of one to ten,

1011
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 2: how nervous are you about the damage he could continue

1012
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: to do?

1013
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: So he has been president for eighty days. You got

1014
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: two hundred weeks left. So think of it that way.

1015
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,439
Speaker 1: In eighty days, he's taken eighty years worth of work

1016
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: of building credibility through Democrat Republican presidence, Democrat Republican congresses,

1017
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: and he's severely damaged it. The single greatest crisis we

1018
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: have is not Chinas. Nobody believes or trusts America anymore.

1019
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 2: So you're talking about the international stage.

1020
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: Right, Well, that's one. I also think it's also true

1021
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: here at home. I think it's very true at home.

1022
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: And so when you say to me the core question

1023
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: not just internationally, but it's such an impact on what

1024
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: we're trying to do economically here at.

1025
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 2: Home, but also democratic norms and institutions, you know, like

1026
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 2: saying he's going to investigate Krebs because Chris said he

1027
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 2: didn't think the election was rigged totally. Uh, you know,

1028
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 2: weaponizing the Justice Department something he railed against all these

1029
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 2: things that are really you know, not listening to judges

1030
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 2: or be the little judges I'm talking about, like internally, Ron, well,

1031
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 2: you know, obviously internationally that's a huge concern. And I

1032
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 2: can see how your view has been expanded by your

1033
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 2: experience being an ambassador. But what about here at home?

1034
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: Here at home, his assessment of the problems is not

1035
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: always wrong, likes it relates to the potential to bringing

1036
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: manufacturing jobs or have His solution is worse than the

1037
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: illness you and I learned. At least I learned three

1038
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: equal branches of government, not one, not one among all equals. Nope,

1039
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: that's not what we learned. I learned three equal branches

1040
01:00:55,000 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: of government. One branch controls perse strings and sometimes sometimes

1041
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: when they're doing their job. And the court very specifically

1042
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: is going to have to as he said, called balls

1043
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: and strikes. Well, we're going to find out, you know,

1044
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: whether he can see.

1045
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: But aren't we going to find out? And if Donald

1046
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 2: Trump can hear, Yeah, that's going to be a case

1047
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 2: like what I did there.

1048
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did I saw that. I got it. Yeah,

1049
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: whether you can hear the crowd booing, but.

1050
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 2: No, hear what the Justice Justice is saying.

1051
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: I understand. Well, take a look at what he's done

1052
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: with the court as it relates to the person in

1053
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: Nel Salvador. So, you know, I think this is and

1054
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: this will have ramifications beyond. You know, every president has

1055
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 1: a tenure and then they have a legacy that's left

1056
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: behind that is like a bomb blast that reverbrates past

1057
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: the specific time they serve. And this will have a

1058
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: lasting impact at home and obviously abroad and in the economy.

1059
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: So scale of one to ten on the worry meter, you.

1060
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: Know, it's so I would I'm very worried. Although I

1061
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 1: don't underestimate the resilience of the American people. But it

1062
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: takes it does, don't I mean, I know you rolled

1063
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: your eyes. I don't know if people can see it

1064
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: roll it, Okay. I saw it come calling, Yeah, yeah

1065
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: like that. It looked very familiar to some of my

1066
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: children at the kitchen table, and I says, oh god,

1067
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: here it was Dad again. No, the American people, you know,

1068
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: when called to, they can It's an incredible resilience. They

1069
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: haven't been called to, and it is also they have.

1070
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: So I think the ramifications of what Donald Trump's are

1071
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: doing is grave and serious, not just for now but

1072
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: for years later. But there is a core piece to

1073
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 1: the American people, which when there is that leadership, they

1074
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,959
Speaker 1: will answer not just the call the responsibility it comes,

1075
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: but they have not been challenged to do that.

1076
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 2: And you see of that.

1077
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: I see it, you know, I see a lot of

1078
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: it in local not just politics, in local communities, I do.

1079
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: I see people coming together, you know.

1080
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 2: But you also see protests.

1081
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, protests is one manifest but I see people when

1082
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: you see a family hurt in your community, people volunteer

1083
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: to do things, et cetera. So I do, and I

1084
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: see people across faiths, across class, across race, across gender

1085
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: working together and doing things in common purpose. The you know,

1086
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: in a weird way, having been national and then local

1087
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: as a mayor, there's more common purpose locally than there

1088
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: is national. I used to jokingly sayd DC's you know,

1089
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: Disneyland on the Potomac, Okay. But you go to a city,

1090
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 1: you go into a community in that city, there's more purpose,

1091
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: There's more unifying kind of texturing and threads upon buying

1092
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: people that has been lost, which is why I believe

1093
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: so firmly in the kind of almost antibody that National

1094
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 1: Service would provide because we look. I say, I've been

1095
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 1: very influenced by this book of Boys Men by Richard

1096
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 1: Reeves and John Hay's book, you know, as it relates

1097
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: to technology. Anxious, Yeah, anxious generation that we have, this

1098
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: generation slipping through our fingers. And I think that not

1099
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: that National Service in and of itself will solve, but

1100
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: it does. It's the best anecdote and kind of biotic

1101
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: against this kind of aimlessness and or.

1102
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:45,600
Speaker 2: This feeling that the future is it's not going to

1103
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 2: be better, you know, that the future is depressing and

1104
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 2: kind of a why bother attitude?

1105
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: Well, I mean they have a phrase in China, the generation.

1106
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: I forgot the exact phrase, but it says lying down generation.

1107
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 1: We in America have kids lost to substance abuse, lost

1108
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: to technology, and it's just or just lost. Yeah, And

1109
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: there's a there's not the hope in their eyes and

1110
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: the hope in their voice, and it's aimless. And I

1111
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: think we need that is there's something in the spirit

1112
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: of America that can be renewed, should be renewed, and

1113
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: with that, there's nothing that will hold America back.

1114
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 2: You are someone who is intimately familiar with the inner

1115
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 2: workings of the White House, and I'm curious. I know

1116
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 2: you're not in there now, but as an observer and

1117
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 2: someone who says, you know, the only people around the

1118
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 2: president the only four words they know are what what

1119
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 2: did you say? Yes? President?

1120
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: There are limited grasped with the English language is limited

1121
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: to four words, yes, sir, mister president. So which you

1122
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: know me? President? In the start, those were not the

1123
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: fore words I used to say.

1124
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure, I'm sure. And you look at the cabinet

1125
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 2: meetings and everyone goes around praising Donald Trump. I mean

1126
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 2: it's it's freaking.

1127
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 1: Including his doctor that tells you his golf game is.

1128
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 2: Great, right, yeah, victorious golf game that city plays that

1129
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 2: he's victorious. I like Rick Riley's book Commander in Cheat,

1130
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 2: which is all about Donald Trump's golf habits. But I

1131
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 2: guess my question to you is, who do you think

1132
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 2: is pulling the strings right now? Do you think it's

1133
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 2: Stephen Miller, who is said that he was the great

1134
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 2: kind of puppeteer behind the scenes? If there is one, well.

1135
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: I mean one is Chris Voyd over office management by Omby.

1136
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: There's no doubt when you look at how one piece

1137
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: of the White House is the decimation of what they

1138
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 1: quote unquote called the deep state. It's been methodical. They've

1139
01:06:56,520 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: been thinking about this for four years, every step, every day,

1140
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: every penny, every person like method the tariffs is all

1141
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,919
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, chaos everywhere, and the guy that's methodically executing

1142
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: the attack on quote unquote whatever the deep state is

1143
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: Chris Voyd.

1144
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 2: I want to ask you in closing about the Democratic Party.

1145
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 2: I know we talked about that for a moment, but

1146
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 2: what I want to ask you about something recently said

1147
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 2: to describe the way Democrats communicate, you said, quote, we

1148
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 2: use language to feel good about ourselves, not to communicate.

1149
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 2: We all act like we're trying to become an adjunct

1150
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 2: professor at a small liberal arts college. It's insane.

1151
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm from Chicago. How many people do you think

1152
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: at a local diner say the word oligarch? What's wrong

1153
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: with rich? Now? I get the spirit of what is

1154
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: being done out there, and you can see by the crowds,

1155
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 1: but the marketing material calls oligarchs. You've got to understand

1156
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: when the American people live their lives. You got to

1157
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: understand how they live their lives. And you have to

1158
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 1: find and I'll give you a classic. I hate this philosophy.

1159
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: I hate this whole term. I hate the whole thing.

1160
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: As a person whose uncle was a Chicago co we're

1161
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: going to defund the police. And when you call them

1162
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 1: on it, they said, well, this doesn't mean what it says.

1163
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: So you want you want to know why we're losing

1164
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 1: black voters, Hispanic voters, Asian voters, Silicon Valley because we

1165
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 1: talk in a way in which people don't under We

1166
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: communicate that you.

1167
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 2: Love me until you said Silicon Valley.

1168
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: We lost Silicon Valley.

1169
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 2: But that's not because people are saying the word oligarch.

1170
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: No, well, I don't know. They may be the oligarchs

1171
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about, right, Yeah, But we talk, and we

1172
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,680
Speaker 1: not only talk, but we communicate in a way that

1173
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: says more about how we feel about ourselves and trying

1174
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 1: to persuade somebody, and the first thing you should do

1175
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: is talk and communicate a set of ideas and values

1176
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 1: of where people live their lives, which is what anomates me.

1177
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: And I think this is the most important thing. You

1178
01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: and I were just talking about aimlessness, losses, and loss

1179
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: of hope. All people want is a shot at the

1180
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: American dream, and all they got is a shaft for

1181
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: twenty years, both parties and we owe them the decency,

1182
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:10,879
Speaker 1: not a guarantee of a shot.

1183
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 2: You sound like Bernie and AOC.

1184
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: You know we started here. I don't know. Bernie talks

1185
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 1: about free community college. I did free community college at

1186
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,679
Speaker 1: Free College. He talks about I did free community college

1187
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 1: in Chicago. I rose them, raise them in Wage. I

1188
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 1: did universal pre k. There are values that we hold.

1189
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: We may not agree on the means, but on the ends,

1190
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: in the sense of equity, in the sense of giving

1191
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:41,600
Speaker 1: people a shot and a voice. Yeah, I mean, but

1192
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 1: when I was in Congress, it was my bill to

1193
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 1: re import pharmaceutical drugs. Didn't report Cantada's crisis. Bernie and

1194
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 1: I worked on it together.

1195
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 2: Do you think Bernie and aocre the future of the

1196
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 2: Democratic Party. They are tracting huge crowds. They are out

1197
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 2: there energizing people everywhere.

1198
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: Well, I think people are energized. That's the part. A

1199
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:03,759
Speaker 1: lot of people want to assume power. Starts in Washington.

1200
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: People already energized. They are putting a spotlight on it.

1201
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

1202
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 2: a subject you want us to cover, or you want

1203
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 2: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

1204
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,280
Speaker 2: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

1205
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 2: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

1206
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 2: of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me,

1207
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 2: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

1208
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 2: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

1209
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:53,440
Speaker 2: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

1210
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 2: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call,

1211
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 2: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

1212
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:02,640
Speaker 2: us at Hadicuric dot com. You can also find me

1213
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 2: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

1214
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1215
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi everyone, it's

1216
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 2: Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the go between

1217
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 2: running my media company, hosting my podcast, and of course

1218
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 2: covering the news, and I know that to keep doing

1219
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 2: what I love. I need to start caring for what

1220
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