00:00:02 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at seven am Eastern on Apple CarPlay or Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 00:00:27 Speaker 2: Okay, Isabelle manteos Lago joined us with B and B Perry Bob, but I want to take a moment here with just bulletproof academics out of Eana Sience Po and of course they're working at Cambridge as well. Just a wonderful synthesis of us here. All talk, no action. Are we going to see from a central banker to the world on Wednesday? 00:00:48 Speaker 3: I'll talk and no action. 00:00:51 Speaker 4: Good morning, tom So. I think of the four central banks making decisions this week and last week, the FEDI is perhaps the it's unlikely to stick to just talk, although our base case remains that they also do nothing. However, there is a case to hike, and several of the fo MC members have been making it and so it will probably be one of these good family fights that Kevin Wassh has been talking about. But don't balance my base cases. They don't act either on Wednesday, and we get some stern talk about commitment to deliver price stability and being prepared to act. 00:01:33 Speaker 5: Is that we do have energy prices pulling back today, but of course they're much higher than everyone would like them. And it leads to the discussion of inflation. 00:01:42 Speaker 2: Here. 00:01:42 Speaker 5: What's your underlying view of inflation out there? 00:01:46 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, on energy prices, I think what's been happening over the last two weeks that when the strike's resumed and now some instant relief, even though the situation in the Strait hasn't really changed in terms of ability of oil to flow out, what it's telling us is we're unlikely to get meaningful this inflation from energy prices for the foreseeable future. And the sharp decline that we saw in June was probably excessive. So that's number one, And so that means all the central banks have to look at what are the other drivers of inflation. And that's where we were a bit more concerned about the situation in the US than say in the Eurozone or in the UK, where there are no other meaningful drivers of inflation, whereas in the US you see much more broad based inflation drivers. 00:02:40 Speaker 2: Is about as your Danny and Bloomberg Money on Friday partitioned America in the supply side dynamics and demand side dynamics. 00:02:48 Speaker 3: Can you do the same in Europe? 00:02:50 Speaker 2: I mean, are these supply side shacks in Europe? 00:02:57 Speaker 4: Well, in the US you see much more well, you see both. You see demand and supply, but principally demand. And remember that energy, US being a net energy producer, doesn't face the supply angle to the same degree, whereas in Europe it is principally a supply a supply shock. Demand has been resilient, but it's not per se a driver of inflation in the way that we're seeing it in the US. 00:03:27 Speaker 5: So in Europe, what is the sense of the consumer there? How is the consumer faring across Europe these days? 00:03:37 Speaker 4: Not great? The consumer is facing, at least as far as the second quarter is concerned, purchasing power has been knocked backwards. If you believe the ECB projections for the year as a whole, the consumer will still be a little bit ahead in terms of purchasing power. However, consumption is growing at about half the pace it normally does. And what's been sustaining the resilience of growth that we've seen is really the corporate sector, and in particular the manufacturing sector, which has been supported by the defense industry and by a resumption of construction activity infrastructure in a number of economies, especially Germany. But the consumer sector in Europe has been relatively weak and we expect that's going to remain that way until we get significant relief from energy prices. 00:04:30 Speaker 5: So on that front there in terms of business and state investment here we had when the Trump tariffs came out initially in his first year of the second term, Europe really stepping up on some of their infrastructure spending, their defense spending. How has that played out, Yes, so. 00:04:49 Speaker 4: The tariff shock in the end has been quite manageable for Europe and in fact, the of course at subsectoral level, I don't want to say no what has been impacted, but at the end of the day, exports to the US have have remained pretty resilient. And more importantly, Europe is shifting to a more domestically driven growth growth story with very historically large stimulus out of Germany which took a bit of time to kick in, but now it's going at full steam. Defense and infrastructure principally, but also the rest of Europe investing in AI, investing in defense, and that's really sustaining domestic demand very meaningfully. 00:05:35 Speaker 2: Isabelle, thank you so much, isabel Mateosi Lago is too short a visit with BNP paribove from Queen Victoria Street. 00:05:41 Speaker 3: In London, stay with us. 00:05:45 Speaker 2: More from Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this. 00:05:59 Speaker 6: We from on you too. 00:06:07 Speaker 2: It's like oops, defaultse credit left tail fold in private credit in the angst over the weekend, on private credit, public credit, private credit is your left. 00:06:20 Speaker 7: Tail risk, good morning, Thank you for having me so taking them into so. In the High Old market, we did raise our default forecast last week because we're a little bit concerned about this left tail of borrowers that haven't been contributing to the overall resilience in the credit markets. That coupled with higher AI related issuance in the High Old market, that market's not immune higher commodity costs, higher rates translating into a higher cost of capital leaves us on the margin somewhat concerned. 00:06:47 Speaker 8: On the private credit point, I mean. 00:06:49 Speaker 7: In many ways we actually just treat this like broader credit. We have flagged recently that non appruals in credit and private credit have increased a little bit in the first quarter, but it's not outsize relative to the broader trend. The key point we are watching in private credit and the leverage loan market is the twenty twenty eight maturity wall, because there's a lot of software debt that needs to be refinanced. So far that refinancing has been encouraging. So yeah, and we've already. 00:07:15 Speaker 9: Started keep your job for you two months. 00:07:18 Speaker 7: We've already started chipping away at that. It's been encouraging. But that's the key point we're watching, all. 00:07:22 Speaker 5: Right, Tom and Amanda's latest report Exhibit five. We estimate nearly two hundred billion dollars of data center deal activity in the private market since it start of twenty twenty five. Man I did not know that who's buying this stuff. 00:07:34 Speaker 7: It's happening under the surface, above and beyond the very meaningful supply that we've already had from the AI ecosystem. 00:07:41 Speaker 8: We estimate that's five hundred billion year to date. 00:07:44 Speaker 7: So just the numbers here are extraordinary private markets. 00:07:47 Speaker 8: There's four and a half. 00:07:48 Speaker 7: Trillion of dry powder in private markets across all categories right now. So that two hundred billion sounds large, we think it's actually just the early stages. The good I think the good thing about the private markets as it relates to the small to your issuing cycle is that we do expect the private markets will provide some certainty of financing in the later years. The simple point is that credit markets work best in funding releveraging when it's quantifiable and there's an end in sight. That's not really the case with this AI built out, So we do see a large role for private markets here. 00:08:17 Speaker 5: Who are the borrowers when a data center gets announced and gets built, is the borrower the construction company? 00:08:23 Speaker 7: So typically the borrower is an SPV that is separate from the hyperscaler. But I think what you are alluding to is something that we've noticed in our investor conversations is that a lot of investors are increasingly counting their data center exposure in their hyperscaler bucket, and so I think it further increases our view. This is actually something we outlined in April that issuer concentration and market saturation constraints will be binding. 00:08:47 Speaker 2: Is okay to Paul's brilliant question, and your even better answer is this visible accounting. Can can fancy people like you or Frank FOBOSEI actually go in and understand the balance sheets of. 00:09:03 Speaker 3: This new debt. 00:09:04 Speaker 7: You can if you're willing to look at ten k's and ten q's, which we do, and actually just using the hyperscaler universe, there's about one point two trillion of least commitments for data centers. Of that, seven hundred billion is for data centers that haven't started yet, they haven't begun construction. So to your question, Tom, that's not yet reflected in traditional leverage metrics, that that commitment for a data center that hasn't begun isn't yet counted in the financials. Some rating agencies and many investors are adjusting that after the fact. But that it is possible to do it if you're willing to get into the financials. 00:09:39 Speaker 5: So there are special borrowers here. But again, is it if I'm going to my credit officer, I'm getting approval for this loan, can I tell them at the end of the day, Microsoft is backstopping this thing. 00:09:50 Speaker 7: All of the deals are different, and whether or not they're fully admortizing, or how the guarantee works or for example, if there is a construction delay, who's on the hook? I unfortunately can't paint it with broadbrush. 00:10:01 Speaker 8: But I think what is most. 00:10:02 Speaker 7: Critical from our perspective is that there's there's a lot of focus on the hyperscalerd issuance, but actually data centers like the ones you are referencing have represented more than twenty percent of AI related supply this year. So it's important to track the AI related issuance from the broader tech ecosystem, not just the hyperscalers, and it further increases that competition for county. 00:10:22 Speaker 2: And j Danny joined us twelve noon on Friday and he said something profound. It it went out of those zechgeist nicely. He said, these rates we're at now are what we're normal years ago. So that's you know, to me, that's a really profound idea. I looked at a yearly chart of the tenure going back to Eisenhower, and the answer is, after the Great Moderation, I guess we're back to something new or to productor your Denny's point is it's something that's normal. 00:10:54 Speaker 8: I listened to that interview. It was great, did you. 00:10:59 Speaker 9: Uniques? 00:11:00 Speaker 7: I think while that's true, Tommy, the important consideration for credit investors so is that the credit markets have grown so much since that time, and. 00:11:07 Speaker 8: The shape of the credit markets is very different. 00:11:09 Speaker 7: And so the last time when we were at these rate levels so kind of pre financial crisis, the credit markets were tiny. We didn't have as much refinancing that was happening. We didn't have this capital intensive build out, where again, I think it's hard to understate the importance of this being a multi year issuing cycle, and so that's really what we think is most critical. 00:11:30 Speaker 5: So I see a lot of these companies not borring, not just in the US, but in Canada, in Europe. I think that's a good thing, isn't It showed the breadth of this yes, barring. 00:11:41 Speaker 8: And that's something we expect to continue. 00:11:43 Speaker 7: The thing that jumped out to us, actually European AI related credit has been holding in a little bit better than the US, and so we dug under the surface as to why. It's exactly the point you raised. There's been a global amount of issuance, but it hasn't been as heavy in Europe. So we do see scope for the issuance in Europe to increase. In smaller regional markets like Canadian dollars, Swiss frank Those markets are tiny, so they're not gonna be able to do the heavy lifting. 00:12:05 Speaker 8: That's where we think the private markets will come in. 00:12:07 Speaker 2: Amanda, thank you so much. Let us know, give us a front, you know, and Goldman Sacks is doing the next hyperscaler piece, you know, bring send a raven, psych House of Dragons, Game of Throne, Send a raven. So we know a man in the line in there with Goldman Sacks. 00:12:22 Speaker 3: Stay with us. 00:12:23 Speaker 2: More from Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this. 00:12:33 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from seven to ten am Eastern. Listen on Applecarplay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 00:12:46 Speaker 2: I'ving a low dark as the door had advice, planning and fiduciar services B. 00:12:50 Speaker 3: And why in mouth I don't care? 00:12:52 Speaker 2: You had the most coveted scholarship in the world, the Thomas Jefferson Scholarship. You How in God's name did you get from civil engineering to working for the Bank. 00:13:05 Speaker 3: Of New York. 00:13:06 Speaker 10: Great question, So as a tax attorney, right, I went from civil engineering into law thinking I was going to be a patent attorney. Then I just fell in love with trusting the safe law when I sort of started practicing, because Thomas, you can imagine the tax cod is very much like a puzzle, which is what engineers do, right with reverse engineering. 00:13:23 Speaker 11: And figure out the math. 00:13:24 Speaker 10: I'm probably the only lawyer out not only but I'm probably on a few lawyers out there who are not afraid of numbers. I love people, and I think families and wealth is messy and it's great. 00:13:36 Speaker 11: That's how I got to. 00:13:37 Speaker 2: Engineer this is the bull market in order? Is the bull market in place right now? 00:13:42 Speaker 5: Well? 00:13:43 Speaker 10: The way I think about it is that your wealth planning actually has drive a lot with investments. And while a lot of our clients are of course asking is the bull market in place, they're also asking a question about what it looks like in the long horizon. And this is where wealth transfer planning come in. As you know, we just publish our wealth Emotion Report by Being my Wealth, and it tells us that a lot of our clients are thinking about wealth transfer. They know they need to do it, but the conversation is not over and it's not quite done. 00:14:11 Speaker 5: So how are people. Are people prepared? What are they doing for this? Because we hear about this great wealth transfer from my generation to the rugrats. And I told my kids last check, I rate is going to bounce and I don't wait on anything. How are people doing this? 00:14:27 Speaker 10: So you're right, you know, we're looking at the so called Great Weald Transfer, the one hundred and twenty four trillion dollars that's expected transfer from the baby boomer generation to the next generation, that the next twenty years. Right, And I will tell you that the great wealth transfer is still happening, but it's happening a little different. 00:14:41 Speaker 11: Than when we all anticipated. 00:14:43 Speaker 10: It's happening slower, and so I would look at it more as a journey as opposed to us thingle oh. 00:14:48 Speaker 9: Listen to you. Okay, So it's happening slower. Is it appening slower. 00:14:51 Speaker 2: Because we're all living longer, which is actually real? Or is it appening slower because the brats have no interest in Bloomberg survey? 00:15:01 Speaker 11: We hope they do. 00:15:03 Speaker 10: So I would say it's three things, two of which you hit. The first is longevity. Right, people are living longer, they're a little bit more worried. 00:15:10 Speaker 9: Borshton posted the great article on that this weekend. 00:15:13 Speaker 10: So, and the second is is that people do feel like the errors are not quite ready right, and they're not ready to as certain corresponsibility. 00:15:23 Speaker 2: The middle child is at a Backstreet Boy concert this weekend. 00:15:26 Speaker 3: They're not ready. 00:15:27 Speaker 11: They're not ready. 00:15:28 Speaker 10: Yeah, and so and then the third that we found in our survey is actually a fear of changing regulatory and tax environment. 00:15:36 Speaker 11: So those are the three factors. You've got two of them right on the air I'll. 00:15:40 Speaker 9: Take in the Texas. 00:15:41 Speaker 5: So how about philanthropy. How are people concerned about philanthropy or are they just thinking about what's the most tax efficient way for me to get my answers. 00:15:49 Speaker 3: To my errors. 00:15:51 Speaker 10: It's a little both, because sometimes you philanthropy plan can actually marry with your own estay plans on how to get to your airs. There's a lot of strategies where you used that benefit both charity and personal. But speaking of philanthropy, this is one of the things out to me, was the most startling, most interesting data point from this whole entire report because it highlights the theme, which is that for wealthy families, there is a huge gap between intention and execution. In our survey, for example, we found ninety one percent of our respondent wants to leave a charitable legacy, and guess what, only thirty six per them actually have the plan to do. 00:16:26 Speaker 9: So that rings true. 00:16:27 Speaker 2: I mean to say, at least alving and low with this right now, head of advice, planning and fiduciary services, passing on the money to the kids. 00:16:35 Speaker 3: B and why wealth? I look at this and. 00:16:40 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, it's the reality of the modern world. We're underwilled and are we under trusted? Are we not using the legal vehicles we need to use to transfer and yet maintain control? 00:16:56 Speaker 11: Quite the contrary. 00:16:56 Speaker 10: Actually, and now we pour two thirds of a respondent actually at least have one trust in place. The average is two point seven trust in place. So no, I don't think we're under trusted. We're under execute and undercarry out the plan. Because just because you have one trust in place and you have the document, it doesn't mean your plan is finished. 00:17:14 Speaker 11: It is just the beginning, all right. 00:17:16 Speaker 5: For our listeners and viewers, that's the first step. Go to their tax person, go to their financial advisor, call up a wealth manager. I mean, how did they start? 00:17:24 Speaker 11: Yeah, great question. 00:17:25 Speaker 10: No, I will not call your lawyer to start, because they are a part of this, but not the starting point. I always feel like you need to start with the y, you need to start with your end goal. So I would be working with your financial advisors to figure out what your end goal is, what is your north star, and then assemble the team. And one thing I do not want to forget, and this is definitely the trend that we're seeing in the last ten plus years or so. Don't just focus on the tax and legal structure. Honestly, that's the easy part. The harder part, which is what's holding a lot of people back because we have all these brats in that system, is that you have to have the conversation with your children and their In our survey, we found that only each one twenty percent feels that there are children are ready for this because they simply have not had. 00:18:04 Speaker 2: I would say that number is high. I mean, you know, I mean, I grew up on a twisted house, folks. It was decidedly not normal like me. But the answer is even the kids that weren't engaged forty years ago were somewhat engaged. I find not just you know, my wonderful offspring. Most of the kids. They're literally like removed from thinking about financial issues right. 00:18:29 Speaker 10: And a lot of people confuse financial education with financial readiness. 00:18:33 Speaker 4: Right. 00:18:33 Speaker 8: A lot of people. 00:18:34 Speaker 10: Nice to talk to us about Hey, can you come and talk to our kids about basic investing? 00:18:40 Speaker 11: What is the worst? 00:18:40 Speaker 9: They have no interest is what I what I see day to day. 00:18:44 Speaker 10: That's why we actually need to engage them in doing right. So it's not just teaching right. Anybody could get information people doing. 00:18:51 Speaker 2: Set up an account of b Nymels. 00:18:53 Speaker 9: We would love that trade SpaceX. 00:18:55 Speaker 10: Well, we would love to get them engaged in a conversation. So for example, getting them to be co trustee of their trust, not necessarily of all the decision when they come off age, but be at a seat at the table so they have a vote. Getting them involved with philanthropy, set up a donor advice fund, do something small to incremental to start, but have them actually making decisions rather than talking to them. 00:19:16 Speaker 11: Let's bring them along. 00:19:17 Speaker 2: I mean, you borrow your kids nine years of paramount, right, that worked out? 00:19:20 Speaker 5: What's the reasonably proper age to start these discussions with your children? 00:19:26 Speaker 10: Well, I think it depends on It depends on what type of conversation I think they can start as early as elementary school. Not necessarily tell them, you know, net worth and every dollar, but just talk to them about investing in saving. 00:19:39 Speaker 11: So I know we started off with this. 00:19:40 Speaker 10: My son is actually on his college orientation today and he had a job last summer at the local pool. 00:19:48 Speaker 5: Right. 00:19:48 Speaker 10: I got him to do a raw IRA and I opened him of a small account. I told him about what mommy matchew, which means if you put your money into the IRA, I will give you an. 00:19:56 Speaker 11: Equivalent amount to spend. 00:19:58 Speaker 10: So he has this tiny little account, you know, and he invested in you know, he looks up the app, he looks at the investment, right, and he gets to watch it. I want to engage him doing early on. 00:20:09 Speaker 2: In civil engineering. To me, it's like microeconomics and economics. There's a point like your sophomore year you take static and dynamics. Oh yes, and that separates that separates the women from the. 00:20:22 Speaker 11: Girls, all the men from the boys, and. 00:20:24 Speaker 2: Then you jump the thermodynamics and then it's like okay, you. 00:20:28 Speaker 11: See, that's why the tax code doesn't scare me. 00:20:30 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:20:31 Speaker 9: Are you based in New York, New York? 00:20:34 Speaker 11: No, I'm in New York. I am in New York right down the block. 00:20:38 Speaker 9: She has to put up with Jeff Up. You know Alicia Levine. 00:20:42 Speaker 3: Oh, I love Alicia has some prodigious math skills. There another one. 00:20:47 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, talk about civil engineering. This has been great, Alvina Lo, thank you so much for coming in. Let me know when the kids figure it out, because I don't say it. 00:20:57 Speaker 3: She is with b and why it melt. Stay with us. 00:21:03 Speaker 2: More from Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this. 00:21:13 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Catch us Live weekday afternoons from seven to ten am Eastern. Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 00:21:26 Speaker 2: So Peter Orzeg shows up at Lazard and they go yeah on the watch on aie and we got a French literature major from Sult Korea that works out joining us. Seline Wu, portfolio manager at Lizard Asset Management. Right now in the Zeitgeist this weekend with Sacha n Adella. 00:21:43 Speaker 3: There was others. 00:21:44 Speaker 2: Jensen was out there, but Sacha Ndella at Microsoft has a lot of headaches. I don't want you to do by hold Sell. I know that's inappropriate on Microsoft. But what is the character in the earning season of the AI headaches of someone like Microsoft? 00:22:01 Speaker 6: Well, I guess, I mean, thank you for having me first. I guess the key events and development that we continue to watch and scrutinize are how much is going to be the cape expanding just to support this massive AI datas into a build out? And where are the use cases? Where are the return on investment? Where are you seeing in terms of generating and accelerating revenue groows? 00:22:21 Speaker 3: I get the use cases? 00:22:23 Speaker 2: How in God's name can they generate a conference call an ROI? Now, I don't see it. 00:22:30 Speaker 6: You don't see any ROI use cases from their conference calls. 00:22:32 Speaker 9: I'm asking you. 00:22:33 Speaker 6: Well, I mean, let's start with the hyperscalers. I think where we see the most immediate and the tensible areas seeing the revenue acceleration is their core businesses, which is their cloud services platform. Look at these companies. If you see their ear and ear revenue glows for their cloud services, it has started to accelerate shorting from the second half of last year, which I saw that from the alphabet last year, which is pretty fantastic. And these companies continue to highlight that how it is so difficult for them to meet all the customers the demand for their cloud services. Hence the badlock number, which is another very important data point to build the like to monitor and I think only in all those are the most important short to medium terms data points guiding lights. You continue to have the monitor and understand why they continue to commit to spend a lot of money. 00:23:23 Speaker 5: You say to focus on enabling technologies. Examples of what are enabling technologies? 00:23:28 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's actually one of the most important and then may be relatively underappreciated compared to hardware infustrate companies. When you think about AI spending, for Techi, we currently allocate about twenty to twenty five percent of the portfolio for these companies. These are basically referring to selective software and technology companies for example, cybersecurity vendors which are critical to maintain the AI systems seamlessly and safely as well and some of the infestral software companies including opser ability Software or the EDA, which is Electronic design automation software, which is critical set of tools than you need when you want to design and the manufacture electronic systems. Including some conductors. I think there are a lot of selective companies that present compelling investment opportunities within the AI tech stack, and they are foundational onunder line software tools that are critical to maintain AI systems. 00:24:25 Speaker 5: Company like Microsoft socks down twenty one percent here to data kind of got drawn down, pulled down with some of these software as a service sector here. How do you think about that scenario at maybe Microsoft in particularly. 00:24:38 Speaker 6: Well, I can really comment specifically about one stuff, but that being said, what I can present instead is the definition of competitiveness for the traditional software are clearly changing in the phase of innovation from the AI labs. We have seen like major development and consequences and implications coming out of the cloud code beginning of this year. So that said, I think a lot of incumbent companies, it's critical for you to prove to the market not only from the offense but from the defense perspective that you're not going to be disrupted, but you can actually use this innovation to be accelerated. Your revenue line. 00:25:14 Speaker 2: Will with this lazard as we dive into some of the AI nic cities, particularly involving other nations. So over the weekend, cx MT was a transaction in China, and yet at the same time President g is pulling back from overt economics and investment in finance outside of China. Is China going to be capitalistic in the AI world or are they going to be some unique calculus. 00:25:42 Speaker 6: We don't know, and that's a great question. One thing for sure is what China is trying to build and intend to innovate is just trying to proliferate open source models as soon as possible, as fast as possible, because ultimately that is going to be solved in proliferation in terms of AI application And. 00:26:00 Speaker 2: So non sophisticates like me go there the phrase we use selene as they're cleaning our clock. 00:26:05 Speaker 6: Are they they're cleaning the clock? I mean, it remains to be seen. But basically you know that open source compared to the closed source frontier models in the US in the West, have different use cases, different cost understanding analysis. So we will just like we will monitor how depends out in terms of the application layer in China. 00:26:24 Speaker 5: What do you mean looking for from the big tech names this week? Are you doing more spending better ROI discussions? What are you looking for from some of the big tech names that are reporting this week. 00:26:36 Speaker 6: I'm looking forward to see definitely the trajectory in terms of CAPE expending, not just for the CERN next year and how that recon cells with their expectation and outlook for their revenue groups. But more importantly, I think again for these hyperskillers and big tech companies, the definition of traditional competitiveness and most are changing as well, and I think we're actually seeing more in tension and interest for them to build more vertically integrated business models across the yet tax stack. You just don't want to be a just frontier model providers or the software or the distribution or data. You just want to own as much as possible waiting because of the aetic step, because ultimately that is what is going to pay off in the long engn. 00:27:19 Speaker 9: Selin, thank you so much, slain Well, great brief. 00:27:21 Speaker 2: Portfolio Manager, Lizard Asset Management, thank you for coming in. 00:27:25 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday seven to ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch US live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal