WEBVTT - Carlos Santana & Cindy Blackman 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.200 Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.200 all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:19.280 which you can find a link to in the show 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:23.080 notes for licensing reasons. Each time a song is referenced 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:28.280 in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right. 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:34.080 Enjoy the episode. Carlos Santana has always been out of 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.000 this world. As a guitarist, his melodic style and tone 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.280 is distinctive, and as a band leader, his decision to 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.360 combine Latin and African rhythms with traditional rock helped to 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:50.839 widen the breath of the genre. That's Paraisos Kamados from 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:56.480 Santana's twenty nineteen album Africa Speaks, produced by Rick Rubin. Today, 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.080 you'll hear Rick in conversation with Carlos and his wife, 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.720 drummer sind Black Men. They talk about Carlos's plans to 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.240 create what he calls miraculous music. Carlos also shared stories 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.679 about Miles Davis, his LSD used in the sixties, and 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.680 a dream where John Coltrane asked him the purpose of 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.679 the divine. It might sound a little out there, but 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.120 as Carlos tells Rick, being crazy just gives him more 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:27.039 creative latitude. This is broken record liner notes for the 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:36.080 digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Carlos Santana, Cindy Blackman, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.240 and Rick Rubin. What was the music he listened to 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:44.920 growing up? My father, my father's played the violin, and 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.440 his son and he had a brother, played cello. He 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.640 had a piano player, guitar player and accordion and they 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:58.000 basically play European music, you know. He didn't play mariachi 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.080 music till we moved to Tijuana. In outline, it was 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:06.240 basically I was steam Lada, who was like the call 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:10.959 porter of Mexico, you know, and uh soon like Bess 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.960 Muccio and all that kind of stuff. So I grew 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:20.840 up watching him be enchanting and adored immediately by women, 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.200 men and children. And I said, oh, you know, I 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:31.440 want that played professionally. Yes, I didn't. He played violin professionally, 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.880 and he's the one that taught me the value of 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.880 one note, you know, but not too moved to Tijuana, 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.160 you know, because he had to feed us. So he 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.560 would play my actu music because that's what the tours 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.760 wanted to hear. But that's what I learned about childie 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:51.720 Hooker and Lightning Hopkins and Jimmy Reid and everybody else 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:55.520 was listening to Elvison and Beach Boys. You know, I 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.799 was attracted to I was listening to god Bucket music. 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.240 I thought that even BB King was sophisticated, you know. 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.440 Not too late, I learned about Tma Walker and New 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:09.000 Calendar Man. It's like, oh shit, you know, or Monk. 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:10.720 You know, here in the Monk for the first time 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:12.800 place some blues. I was like, oh my god, this 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:17.280 is the blues. You know, was Monk your way into jazz? Yes, 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:21.400 Mink was way into jazz in the beginning, because when 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.720 you're young, you're ignorant, and I thought that anything I 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:28.320 had to do with jazz was boring, sophisticated music for 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.400 old people. You know. Chuck Berry and Little Bow Didley 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.720 and Little Richard, you know, that was like up front 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.480 like what Metallica is because of his energy and a 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.600 lot of things came from them. Any any guitar players 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.160 that you would say influenced you early on, like who 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.119 are the people? When you saw them play or heard 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.800 them play, like felt like there's something here for me 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:55.000 to follow or to practice or to learn. At the beginning, 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:59.240 in d juana making making the transition from violin to guitar. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.200 I saw this guy named Heavier about these and in 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.720 the park. My mom knew what she was doing because 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.560 my father moved to San Francisco so he can make 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.400 more money and send us money. He wasn't making money 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:13.840 into juana anymore because everybody and their mom had my 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.599 rache bend in there. So he moved to San Francisco 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.160 and my mom. My mom saw that I wasn't playing 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.400 anymore violed and I wasn't practicing. So she took me 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.520 by the hand and she goes, you're coming with me, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.080 and says, well, where are we going? And he goes, 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.200 you're coming with me. So she took me to the 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.240 park and there was a band plane and this guy 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.760 had a big mop like Little Richard. This guy is 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.160 kabiet about this and he was a perfect combination of 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.320 Little Richard, BB King and Ray Charles. That's what he 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.240 was sent to. And he was probably made four or 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:45.760 five years older than I am, and he was already 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.160 in it. He had that sound like Michael Bloomfield, Peter 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:53.039 Green or like that. You know. He because he got 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.880 into bb King really got into it. So when I 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.920 first heard that sound, it was like seeing a white 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.120 whale or a lion size or something. Man hearing the 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:07.479 guitar amplifier and everything resonate to the trees and the 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.600 cars and the church across the street. I took my 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.680 breath away. I was like, oh my god, what is this? 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.200 You know? So he was the first one that initiated 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:22.120 me into loving the electric guitar and that twang thing 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:26.680 like you know, like Lenniemac. And I think the main 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.000 person who turned me around was John McLachlin. When I 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.080 saw them and slugs with Tony Williams and Larry Young, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.240 that put a whole other thing on me. Miles Miles, 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:40.800 David's favorite guitar player. And there's a reason, his articulation 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:47.120 and his imagination, and we became really good friends and brothers, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:53.560 and everybody fortunate and blessed. You know that I've been 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.800 at the right place at the right time, and people 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:01.960 adopt me, they trust me. Therefore, you know, except for 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.560 one guy. I'm not gonna say who, but when when 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.600 when he caught me looking at his hands see what 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.520 he was doing, he immediately turn turned his back to 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.400 me and he looked at me like, you know, like 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.400 I was going to steal something from him, you know, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.359 And so that made me realize, Okay, you know, not 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.359 everybody's going to be giving. You know, some people are 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.080 gonna be really paranoided by you're stealing their stuff, you know, 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.600 even though it's not their stuff. It's BB King where 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.800 they're playing, you know. But yeah, I think when I 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.120 come came to San Francisco because so Michael Shreeve is 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.479 this rumor, he brought a lot of records of Caulturing 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:37.559 and Miles Only, and he says, you need to listen 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.120 to this, and I go, I do. He says, yeah, 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.840 because this, this is this is human As we said, Okay, 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.880 how old were you at that time, probably in nineteen 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.560 eighteen nineteen, and you were ready, so you were steeped 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.880 more in you'd say, at that point, more in rock music, 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.440 and then at eighteen or nineteen you started getting into jazz. Yes, 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.279 BB King was King Ray Charles, Yeah, that was that 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.039 was said. And then once, like I said, once I 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.040 discover a Monk and Coltrane and Miles it was it 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.880 was like like they say, the genius out of the bottle. 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:14.720 You know, you can't put it back in, you know, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.520 and it's the band that the band that we know 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:22.480 you as was that your first San Francisco band, first 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.120 San Francisco band was drummer and a bass player that 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.880 they kind of took me in because I just came 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.960 from Tijuana. They had instruments and I barely had a guitar, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.720 so they helped me get an amplifier. And but we 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.400 were entering contests like the Battle of the Band sin 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.440 San Francisco, Kaya and you know like that. And they 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.560 had like a thousand bands in a gym, in a 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.720 school gym, and it thin out because they wanted something original. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.440 They didn't want, you know, another Rolling Stones or the 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.280 Who kind of clones and and we had this black 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:58.720 lady name Joey's Dunne, and we were doing different interpretations 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.640 of heat wave. We got it all the way to 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.800 number three at the Kyle Palace, amongst all the other 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.040 bands you know that were dusted. We were in the 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.800 top three. And the only reason we lost, I think, 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.239 is because my partner's got so scared. They got drunk, 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.600 literally drunk drunk, you know, and I was like, oh man, 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.680 you know, and I was so pissed off it embarrassed, 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.600 you know, because they couldn't play, you know, but it 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.000 was it was it was the beginning of giving me 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.680 a confidence that I could fit where the Grateful Dead 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.280 were and what Paul battlefield was and and and that's 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.240 Bill graham Sali like, you know, everything that you do 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.439 begets confidence, you know, in clarity. They're like, well, I 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.960 can do this. You know. You see Cream or you 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:44.760 see Hendricks. They're like, oh, even though a lot of 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.600 people quit after they see Hendricks, I said, I said, 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.160 it's got to be something that he ain't doing that 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.079 I can do it, you know. So I discovered Gobor 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:59.920 Sawo and Bola Sete and guitars with congas. Yeah, when 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.959 did you first see Hendrix at the Fillmore? And that 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.480 was a revelation because Jimi Hendris was probably the only 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.320 guitar player that I knew or ever will ever know 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:13.719 that could play in cinemascopes around around with feedback on 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.920 one note, you know, without being wiped out by it. 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.920 It was, you know, he's like a surfer that ride 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.960 the big Kahuna and sound waves and knew what he 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.640 was doing. It didn't control him, he controlled it. So 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.360 that was a revelation. It's interesting when you say that, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.520 I never thought about this before. But but normally when 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.679 you think of feedback, you think of it sort of 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.439 exactly what you said of it, sort of taking over, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.640 and he was able to manage it. Never I never 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.880 made the connection before, even though it's yes, it's time me. 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.120 When you say it's like, of course, it's obvious, that's 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.679 why he's Jimi Hendrix, but I never thought of it. 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:55.480 It's a specific way like that before. It's a wave 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.920 of sounding. It's a wave of sound like culturing, and 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:03.080 they call him sheets of sound. But yeah, so being 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.480 in San Francisco at the right time was a revelation 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:11.400 from Robbie Shankar to Johnny Hooker and Jimmy and Coltrane. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:17.319 You know. San Francisco was the ultimate album mater U University, 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.360 and you saw all these guys play, yeah, slide before 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.800 they were you know, Robbie when they started Freddy, it 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.440 was Freddie and the Stone Soles before it slide. And 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:28.800 so I got I got a chance to see like 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:34.319 someone sculpturing pottery, you know, like you can see that 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.960 slide coming from Johnny guitar Watson and this and Dad, 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.480 you know, and he's I can see where everybody got 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.160 where they got, you know, because we all we all 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.200 would come from somebody. Yeah, I didn't see it coming 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.800 though when my house came out with bitches brew that 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.800 was really different. And like you said, you said it 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.880 to all of us. I can go where you go, 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.760 you can't go where I go. But oh, and he 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.480 said it to you know, it's a blanket statement because 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.920 where he went, being with Charlie Parker and Coltrane was 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:10.040 another realm of harmonic genius. And do you think do 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.520 you think it was all intuition for him or do 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:17.840 you think somehow there was learning involved. Probably intuition a lot, 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.440 you know, through all the books that I read. Even 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.360 though to some people it seemed like it was complex, 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.439 if you really look at it from a divine point 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.040 of view, it was absolutely predictable. You know, the only 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.040 time that it was unpredictable is when he was not 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.320 like Prince and Michael Jackson, the persona, when he was 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.880 the spirit of Miles Davis, like Coltrane, you know, because 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.120 the persona is the ego, and that starts mimicking what 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.680 people say about him, like, oh, I'm the Prince of Darkness, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.120 and I'm supposed to, you know, be like that. You know, 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:53.240 to this day, I don't understand how he could play 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.000 the way he played under heroin or cocaine. I just 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.040 hear my mother say this is not for you. And 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.440 so since she put that in my head, anytime I 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.400 try to do anything like that, I couldn't play. I 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.920 had to go to the shower and stay there until 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.520 I came back to now that I could touch my nose, 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.560 both hands with my eyes closed and makes sense of balance. 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.360 I couldn't balance anything under those chemical things because they're 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:27.960 not medicine, they're chemical drugs. Have you had psychodolic experiences? Natural? Um? 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.000 I started going to the film or and seeing Charles 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.440 Floyd like that, and you know, and seeing Miles like that, 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.000 and a lot of band sound rad you know, it 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.840 opened it opened. That's opened up, um. And you understand 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.240 why Jimmy's music sound Rods music and the doors music. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:51.080 In certain music, it had a different dimension of It's 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:56.560 like watching Salvador Dolly paint, you know, with clocks melting 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:00.640 and stuff. You know, I love it. To me being 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:06.240 Mexican with the ayahuasca and the mescalan, I love brightening 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.120 and expanding your imagination to the fullest without fear. I'm 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.240 just thinking about San Francisco in those days. How many 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.640 people might be at a nightclub. If you went out 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.520 to a club and you got to see those artists, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.320 what would the typical scene be like, Well, you go 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.679 to the Jazz Workshop and it would be West Montgomery 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:29.880 with Miroslav Toes. And you go to Matador it would 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.839 be Calciated with Mungo and Louis Bobo, Armando or Bola 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.800 said there, you know. And you go to the Both 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.480 Hand and visit Zadero and they'd be Miles or leam Oregan. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.480 And you go to the Fillmore and you see what 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.920 was really prescious about Bill Graham that he said to 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.480 the hippies, if you want to hear the Grateful Dead, 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.040 you gotta hear Miles Davis first. And if you want 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.360 to hear Santana, you gotta hear Roland Kirk, you know. 0:13:55.800 --> 0:14:00.840 So he made it a mandatory to the minds of 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.400 the hippies. If you want to hear ten years after, 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.679 you're gonna have to hear Buddy Rich first, you know. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.320 And he told me that the reason he put body 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.560 Rich in front of him is because he was really 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.120 annoyed by the drummer we ten years after. He was 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.720 a little arrogant and cocky, and he says, I'm want 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.600 to fix his ass man, I want to put so 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.760 he so he went and got Buddy Rich to open 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.320 up for the He made him listen, you know, and 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.920 I was like, then, Bill, your crew, you know, but 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.040 we need that more than ever now. You know, there's 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:39.720 no cross pollenization of greatness with the youngsters, you know. 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:45.200 So consequently everything everything sounds the same and terrible. What 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.360 gave Bill the inspiration to put these people together and 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.280 to want to share these different genres with people who 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.240 might not have known that they wanted to hear it? Well? 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.920 He grew up in the Caskills in New York, working 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.000 as a waiter Maitre d and the waiter, but when 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.800 he had free time he would go to uh Courso 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.560 it was this place, and I bought a block two 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:11.400 blocks from the Apollo and it was put Tito Pointe 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.920 and so he wasn't he was totally dead dead out 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:20.360 into Tito Pointe and Mongo. And he was incredible dancer, 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:25.000 salsa dancer before they called it salts. So when you 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.720 heard Santana. He says, you are the perfect baby. They 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.880 came from Baby King and Tito Pointe. I said, I 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:36.640 am yeah, and you and so he basically kind of 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.200 like adopted me more than the band. He was like Miles. 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.400 It would call me, you know, I'm not bragging it, 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.720 but they call me, you know, people who love me 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.360 call me John Leed and my phone would ring. And 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:50.960 I mean I say this all the time for many, many, 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.280 many years. I never got an award at the Grammys. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.280 But it didn't matter to me because my phone is 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.760 ringing and it's Wayne or Miles or Jocko or Stevie, 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.120 you know, like that, the greatest musicians are calling me 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.960 and we're just checking on each other, you know. So 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.840 that was a validation. So you need man. When Miles 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.080 called you anytime of the night, you know, and he 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.240 wants to know what you're into, that's a validation. You know. 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.360 So beautiful, so great, so great that you got to 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.000 know him any Do you have any funny stories related 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.360 to Miles, I hear he's quite the character. Anything you 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.880 want to talk about, well, there's so many, you know, 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.720 some of them are like, um, what was really funny 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.920 about him? Is that he was funnier than Richard Pryor. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.560 He really really west and I was just bust up, like, man, 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.440 this guy is like I was just saying, because they're 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.840 they're not PG at all, you know. But he was 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.120 fun to be around. Oh. He was definitely if he 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.600 loved if he liked you, it was really fun. If 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.240 he didn't like you, he would just say, must you 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.240 be here? Wow? That was his way to dismiss somebody, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:02.440 you know, like these you know, we'll be right back 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:10.680 with Carlos, Cindy and Rick after a quick break. We're 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.600 back with Carlos Santana and Cindy black Man. Tell me 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.240 about leading up to making your first album. What were 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.720 you playing in Clouds? Was there a regular a regular 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.040 gig at that time. Yeah. Once we formed the band, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.920 Bill Graham saw that we were opening and then he 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.840 he put a stamp on us. He goes, Okay, you're 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.440 gonna open out for the Who, and you're gonna open 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.480 out for money, Holly Wolf, and you're gonna happen out 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.840 for a slide. You're gonna you know, creating us clear 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.600 Water and we started Stepping Wolf. We opened out for 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.240 everybody before we recorded, so We were basically playing this 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.000 this material for about a year and a half before 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:50.800 we went to the studio, and we knew it, We 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.000 knew how to, we knew what we were what to 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.000 do with Jingo. You know, Jingo was we just heard 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.639 a bunch of congo players at Aquatic Park in San 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:03.280 Francisco and Gary Dells where jing you know, bunch of 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.600 twenty two congo players one flute and they're all chanting jingle. 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.800 And I was like, oh my god, what the hell 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.000 is Jingo? You know how didn't know? It's all about 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:16.520 ten years ago. The jingle means go with God. Jingle jingle, 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.560 go with go with God. So it's a it's a 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.600 spiritual it's a spiritual idea from all the tunit. Yeah. Wow. 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.000 So everybody was like, what do y'all call that music 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:32.080 you're playing? Stephen and Koreans Clairware like okay, looking at it, 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:33.960 especially because they're looking at us and looking at the 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:39.040 audience and they're seeing the immediate marriage responds. You know. 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.480 So by the time we got to the studio, everybody 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.880 was fighting to get us in their in their record company, 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:52.719 h Atlantic and Electra and Sony, so they CBS. They 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.920 found this um producer at the time. The name is 0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:00.000 David Rubinson, and he had produce because if at least 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.520 piano and and I'm as Santamaria, so I said, oh, 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.040 he knows how to record, gone guess so he I 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.200 don't know if he knows how to record like the guitars, 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.879 We'll see. And we did an album in LA for 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.560 about two weeks and it just didn't sound it or 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.960 felt anything like we sounded like. So we said, so 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.560 we told CBS, we'll pay for the sessions, but we're 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.480 not going to be He's not our producer. We don't 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.560 want him, with all respect to him. But it's like, 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:33.359 but don't know, you know, I know that some people, 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.600 being the first, you're not supposed to have a say 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.480 song which which you know they choose for you, and 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.600 I don't. We don't care. He says, well, who are 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.960 you going to get? I said, we'll find somebody. We 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.000 literally went to here to Ashbury and find one of 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.040 the first hippies that we saw, and we heard that 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.879 you could engineer a little bit as herd about it. 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.560 You know, I forget the same and so that's what 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:56.520 the album sound is so horrible. You know, when we 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.680 first heard it in Cambridge, Massachusetts, one week before we 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.080 played with Stuck. I would came out a week before 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:06.959 we came out playing with Stuck, and we said, whoa us, 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.280 but it sounds terrible. The cone gets in the drums, 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.639 I'm so fan in the guitar, like, oh my god. 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.919 You know, it's unusual that you were that you again, 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.960 at that age, had the confidence to say this is 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.680 not my this is not our album when you recorded 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.440 that first one, because so many young bands in that 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.560 position just go with it and feel like because they 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.400 they have gone through the process that that's what it's 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:39.240 supposed to be. It's funny how your confidence changes when 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.000 you're able to play I wouldn't say under but over 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:48.920 Murray one on LSD. You know, you either become a 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.879 wimpy or you become really really treacherous in your convictions. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.840 Like give you an example when we when I heard 0:20:55.920 --> 0:21:00.520 on LSD on Friday night party time are any time 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.320 you know this guy, this dig and he's playing Latin 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.880 music and all kinds of music. Because at that time 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.040 it was like you know, from A to C and 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.080 radio and they were playing oh You're coming boy, and 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:16.080 I said, man, this is a great Saturday night party 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.920 song like Louie Louie or whatever. You know. I wanted 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.640 to get those songs that that every time you play 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.240 it's like Friday and Saturday after school, you know, you 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.560 go to a play, somebody has a party and the 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.120 guys some band were like, this ain't rock and roll. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.280 I was like, man, I don't care when we're playing 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:41.720 this thing, you know. And so a lot of a lot, 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.520 a lot can be said about conviction, not organs, but 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:51.280 you have to have the conviction to go for your destiny. Sound. Yeah, 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:54.720 I was reading about that this morning, coincidentally, about the 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:59.760 Star people. Star people have They're like ascended beings that 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:04.760 transformers of consciousness, bringing new ideas, visions, and solutions and 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:09.639 inspire artists musicians to elevate, transform illuminate consciousness to a 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:14.399 higher state. They serve as conduits, mediums, and channels. They 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:19.040 have special gifts and heavenly powers. Everyone's imbued with that, 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.399 but I think that if you're not careful, the world 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:28.920 will program you to be less than that. Absolutely, absolutely, 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:32.159 because everyone's got it, We're all born with it, and 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:37.920 some of us just get get it beaten out of us. Unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.840 and where we are today. You know, with Cindy, it's 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:46.879 a very special not even special, especially when something's on sale. 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:54.560 This is divine when you find a person that matches 0:22:55.560 --> 0:23:02.320 the fervor of the vision. Yes, yeah, amazing. Well, when's 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:04.480 the first time you guys played together. The first time 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.960 we played together was when Carlos needed a drummer and 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:12.040 Dennis Chambers was in the band at that time and 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.680 had I guess something else booked on a gig that 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:19.119 was off the schedule that Carlos Scott and he called me. 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:22.600 I had met him just briefly. I was with Lenny 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:27.200 Kravitz and it was a festival in Germany, and I 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:29.560 know Dennis. I've known himselves like fourteen so we were 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.679 hanging out in the back and I met Carlos really briefly, 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.480 like hi, how are you, and went on to watch 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:37.320 videos or whatever I was doing, so I didn't really 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:40.920 interact or talk to him at that point. But then 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.800 when he needed a sub for Dennis, they somebody called 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.240 me and before they could finish the question of whether 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:49.800