1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to stuff I've 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: never told you production of I Heart Radio. So for 3 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: today's question, I was going to ask you the obvious question, 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: which is did you ever think about joining the military. 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: But if I am mistaken, we've already talked about that 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: on this show. Yeah. I think we were at least 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: talked about the fact that we had been approached. Yes, 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: because we talked about our I think our score, so 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: my A C. T scores were so high I started 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: getting phone calls m and you were talking about that too, 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: I know. One of the big things too. A back, 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: I had a friend of a friend who was an 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: adopted Korean guy, and we were both talking about whether 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: or not we would ever go back, and he was 15 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: thinking about going to teach English and Korea, but changed 16 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,639 Speaker 1: his mind because he figured out if he did go, 17 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: he would have to actually serve that. Yeah, because that 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: is one of the things, like all men have to 19 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: serve in the military for I think two years in 20 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: South Korea automatically, and I always thought about that. I 21 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: was like, wow, that's such a because I also thought 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: about drafts and how that doesn't exist anymore. But what 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: would that look like today, because I remember when I 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: was younger, after nine eleven war happened and I was 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: petrified and I started crying because I thought my brothers 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: were going to be drafted because I did not understand 27 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: what was happening and the concept of drafting. But like 28 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: the horror stories and all of the PTSD and trauma 29 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: and like that has happened from drafted soldiers, not just 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: drafted all the soldiers, but like specifically to those who 31 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: didn't want to be a part of the war to 32 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: begin with. Yeah, my dad was drafted for the Vietnam War. 33 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: And it's one of those strange things where when he 34 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: would tell stories, obviously when he's talking to his kids, 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: especially when you're younger, they were funny stories, but I 36 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: just know that I'm pretty sure none of his friends survived. 37 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: He was the only one that did. And just like 38 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: these tragic things. My mom was dating someone who was 39 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: drafted in Vietnam and never came back. And my grandfather 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: was in World War Two, and he also would tell 41 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: these stories that as a kid, and like he would 42 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: tell about like as a woman would give him eggs 43 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: and he was so hungry he would just eat the 44 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: eggs raw and he would say it was like a 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: smile on his face, and as a kid, I just 46 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: could not make it makes sense. But yeah, yeah, as 47 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: I've said many times, I grew up in a in 48 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: a military town, a big military town, and it was 49 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: a push that you were going to join and I 50 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: had I had a decent amount of friends who at 51 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: least served for a little bit or are still in 52 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: the reserve because it was like you could join um 53 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: j r OTC in high school. Yeah. Yeah, Well, as 54 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: we are recording this, Memorial Day weekend is coming up, 55 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: and we've been talking about the women behind Memorial Day 56 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: and we wanted to bring back this classic episode about 57 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: some of the history of women in the military, So 58 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: please enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from 59 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 60 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. A few years ago, 61 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: we did a podcast on women in the military, and 62 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: this was as the tides were starting to turn for 63 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: women being allowed to fight in combat roles, and we 64 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: wanted to do another episode, an update on women in 65 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: the military, a because you know, it's been a while, 66 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: but also because on January twenty third, two thousand thirteen. 67 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: Something happened, yeah, just something, just something, Yeah, No, that 68 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: the ban on women in combat was officially lifted. And this, 69 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: of course is despite the fact that there were already 70 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: women in very dangerous situations in combat situations. But officially 71 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: the ban was lifted and the services have until January 72 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: to implement the changes. Yeah, right now. Just to get 73 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: an idea of what role women play in the military, 74 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: they make up fourteen percent of the one point four 75 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: million active military personnel, and this combat exclusion ban being 76 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: lifted opens up a potential two hundred and thirty eight 77 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: thousand jobs, mostly in infantry, armor, and special forces. And 78 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: it's really with the infantry, those the ones who are 79 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: on the front line. Although we will get into this more. 80 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: The question is with modern warfare, are there really front lines? Um? 81 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,559 Speaker 1: But those are the used to be dudes, exclusively dudes 82 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: out there face to face with the enemy on hunt 83 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: and kill missions and things like that. So what was 84 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: the reaction to this combat band being lifted? Obviously, on 85 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: the one him, plenty of people were psyched about this. 86 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,119 Speaker 1: Not everybody was, though, a lot a lot of people 87 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: raised some issues that were um, maybe maybe not the 88 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: best best issues. Uh. Some people called it an untested 89 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: social experiment and that more women would mean more sexual 90 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: assault and misconduct in the military. Penny Nance, who's the 91 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: president of Concerned Women for America Legislative Action Committee, is 92 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: one of those people. She said, it's placing social experimentation 93 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: and political correctness over combat readiness. Yeah, the price. There 94 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: are three primary arguments that against women in combat, and 95 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: these have been bandied about for years and pretty much 96 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: any negative reaction will fall into one of these buckets, 97 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 1: which is a that women can't meet the physical requirements, 98 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: and a lot of that deals with discrepancies between upper 99 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: body strength, in particular between men and women. There's also 100 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: the argument that women simply don't belong in combat on 101 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: moral grounds. Were very squeamish about the idea of putting 102 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: women in the line of fire. Uh. And we talked 103 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: about some of that, those those kinds of moral debates 104 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: in our episode on heroism a while ago, and how 105 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: it's more of a male construct um. And then there's 106 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: also the idea that women will disrupt unit cohesion and 107 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: battle readiness because men and women together, Oh, that's gonna 108 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: cause a lot of wacky rom com scenario. It's just 109 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: like mash all over again. Well, and it's also mean 110 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: it gets into these these arguments of people saying, well, 111 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: men won't be able to control themselves, which it's like, 112 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: that's hey, come on that that's a major dis on 113 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: these male soldiers whose lives are structured around discipline. Yeah, 114 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, it totally takes away any indication that 115 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: they have any sort of self control of any kind. Yeah. 116 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: And essentially, due to changes in our culture, changes in technology, 117 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: and changes in the nature of modern warfare, all three 118 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: of those main arguments have been dismantled to the point 119 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: that the military says, you know what, it's time. Yeah. 120 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: Megan mackenzie, in a great article for Foreign Affairs at 121 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: the end of last year, took a look at what 122 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: some of the societal, cultural military changes are that are 123 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: making this ban this band that was just lifted irrelevant. 124 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: One of them is what Kristen mentioned. It's this increasing 125 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: counterinsurgency warfare that we're dealing with in the Middle East 126 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: has virtually erased the the concept of combat front lines. 127 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: There is there's danger everywhere that they're going um. Female 128 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: soldiers contributions to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were undeniable. 129 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: There's also been increasing support from within military leadership, not 130 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: just not just outside the military, and there have been 131 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: changes in public attitudes also about women's capabilities and roles 132 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: in war. However, it's interesting that argument about women disrupting 133 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: the boys club at the front lines is something that 134 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: my friend's father said to me because my parents had 135 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: a Christmas party and invited everybody in the neighborhood. And 136 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: he he's an old school military dude, and I asked him, 137 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: you know what his opinion on the changing tide was, 138 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: and he was like, oh, no, no, no, sweetheart, no no. Women. 139 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: Women will will interrupt the way that men interact. It's 140 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: it's really a brotherhood and women just won't be able 141 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: to uh, to take part in that. Well. And it's 142 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: not just male soldiers who have said things like that 143 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: speaking in This was reported in the New York Times, 144 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure if she gave this direct quote 145 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: to the New York Times or another outlet, But nevertheless, 146 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: Brigadier General Lori E. Reynolds said, uh. In terms of 147 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: whether or not women should be involved in combat missions, 148 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: she said, I don't think they should close with and 149 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: destroy the enemy, describing the hunt and kill mission of infantryman. 150 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: When you go out and see what the infantry does, 151 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: the way they live, the way they train, it's good 152 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: that it's all male. But you could also say that 153 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: since she is so high up, possibly she just had 154 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: to make that official stance of yes, the military is right, 155 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: this is how it is. But it does kind of 156 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: stink that that sentiment is coming from a high ranking woman, right, 157 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: I mean, and and she and she's certainly not the 158 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: only only female soldier who is echoed those things of 159 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: falling back on the old gender stereotype of saying, you 160 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: know what, there's a line, and we at some point 161 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: just let the dudes do it. It's just you know 162 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: that that's where that's where they belong and where we 163 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: don't necessarily belong. But before we get in to more 164 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: of those contemporary issues of how how things have changed, 165 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: let's step back briefly to see where we've been in 166 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: terms of the military's inclusion of women. Yeah, the nineteen 167 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: forties was a big time for women's involvement in the military. 168 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: It was in this decade that Congress created the Women's 169 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: Army Auxiliary Corps which was converted to full status in 170 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: nineteen forty three, so they dropped the auxiliary part. Uh. 171 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: These were the first women in the army aside from nurses, 172 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: and by the end of the decade, Whacks as they 173 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: were called, are enrolled in the Whack regular Army and 174 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: the Organized Reserve Corps. And in ninety eight, towards the 175 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: end of the decade, the Women's Armed Services Integration Act 176 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: created a permanent core of women in all the military departments. 177 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: This was considered a step forward at the time, but 178 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: it actually limited to two percent of the total service 179 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: members the number of women who could participate, and formally 180 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: excluded them from combat duties. Yeah. So so that we 181 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: have like with it's like a celebration, but also only 182 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: to a point. Um. And as these female soldiers gained 183 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: more and more recognition, I mean, the wax being included 184 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: as part of the regular Army was a recognition of 185 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: their major contributions in World War Two. But in the 186 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: postwar periods, um, you know, it's it's a slow but 187 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: sure sort of climbed towards equality. For instance, we have 188 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one women are authorized to command men, 189 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: except of course, in combat units than in ninety eight, 190 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: men and women began training in the same basic training 191 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: units at some forts like Fort McClellan um. And then 192 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty, just to give you an idea of 193 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: the numbers of women in the military, women made up 194 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: nine point one per cent of the army. And moving 195 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: back for a second, in one the policy of excluding 196 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: women from combat was reinforced from the Supreme Court ruled 197 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: that the all male draft didn't constitute je nder based 198 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: discriminations since it was intended to increase combat troops. And 199 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: they're like, and hey, women aren't supposed to be in combat, 200 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: so it's not discrimination. I'm just imagining the Supreme Court 201 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: justice is being like, oh, hey, that's what that's what 202 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: their brief stuff cookies, ladies, And then they shrug and 203 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: high five and go out for drinks, still with their 204 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: robes on. Yeah, I digress. But things start to progress 205 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: a little bit. You see. You see the dial shifting 206 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: in when the military adopts something called the risk rule, 207 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: which allowed women to be kept out of even non 208 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: combat positions if they were likely to be at risk 209 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: of being fired on or captured. So you see that 210 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: protectionist rule being implemented. But then a few years later, 211 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: nine three, the Secretary of Defense Less Aspen, basically dismantles 212 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: the risk rule. He announces a new policy directing the 213 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: services to train and assign women on combat aircraft and 214 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: most combat ships, though yet again that combat exclusion ban 215 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: is kept in place. No direct ground combat is to 216 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: be had for women, right, and that direct combat rule 217 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: excluded women from seven point three percent of army positions. 218 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: It also had the effect, as you know, other combat 219 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: bands had, of limiting career paths and promotion opportunities for 220 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: women and contributing to gendered stereotypes about the war being 221 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: the business of men. But even within those tighter parameters, 222 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: women certainly were able to climb through the ranks of 223 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,599 Speaker 1: the army. Um In two thousand eight, General and E. 224 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: Dunwoodie became the first female four star general in military history, 225 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: and also became the first female to lead a major 226 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: army command. And it's it's it is kind of one 227 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: of those milestones where you say, yeah, oh my god, 228 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: it took that long. Why did it take that long? 229 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: And it's because of combat exclusion bands, Because you're not 230 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: allowed to get in those positions that you need to 231 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: get to to get those kinds of promote oceans. Right. Well, 232 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: going back just a little bit, you know, we talked 233 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: about how while women have already sort of been involved 234 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: in this kind of combat activity already. Back in two 235 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: thousand three, quote unquote, Lioness teams were deployed to assist 236 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 1: combat units in Irack searching for women are searching I'm sorry, 237 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: women in those countries for weapons and explosives. And then 238 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine we have the development of several 239 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: other female only units, including those female Engagement teams that 240 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: are written about often. During their first year of operation, 241 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: these teams conducted more than seventies short term search and 242 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: engagement missions in Afghanistan alone, but the military specified that 243 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: these units could not contribute to hunt and kill foot 244 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: patrols and had to stay at combat posts only temporarily. 245 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: So okay, I see what you're doing. However, in practice, 246 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: what they did is that female soldiers were required to 247 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: leave their combat basis for one night every six weeks 248 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: and come back immediately the next day. Yeah. There was 249 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: a profile on these Marine female all Engagement teams in 250 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: the New York Times in two thousand and ten, and 251 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: it talked about how they would go in and do 252 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: all of this work. And then since this was one 253 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: of the first to go in there, it might have 254 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: actually been the first that this New York Times reporter 255 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: was following, the Marine Legal Review team went back and said, Okay, no, 256 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: you gotta get out of here, because we you know, 257 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: they had to toe the line of this combat exclusion ban. 258 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: And at this time, all of this conversation was starting 259 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: in the military about the fact that front lines were blurred. 260 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: They were having to, you know, make all of these 261 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: kind of loopholes for women to get in there, but 262 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: not too close. And uh, it was around the around 263 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: two thousands ten when we started hearing more direct lines 264 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: out of the military hinting at the fact that that 265 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: combat exclusion ban would at some point be lifted. And 266 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: Zoe Badell, who was one of the pointiffs in an 267 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: A c. L U lawsuit involving the combat exclusion band 268 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: and we'll talk about, was one of the members of 269 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: that first female engagement team in the Marines. I didn't 270 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: know that, Um, yeah, four service women. Zoe Bedell was 271 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: one of four service women who filed this lawsuit in 272 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: federal court in San Francisco on November in a challenge 273 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: to the band. They challenged it as a violation of 274 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee of equal protection under the law, 275 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: and the lawsuit says that the Constitution forbids the government 276 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: from imposing a blanket ban on women's participation, and so 277 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: those women we should name them Major Mary Jennings Hegar, 278 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: Jennifer Hunt, Zoey Bedell who we mentioned, and Colleen Farrell 279 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: who is a podcast She is a podcast listening Colleen, 280 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: what's up? Uh? Yeah. For instance, Zoe Bedell, who I mentioned, 281 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: was a Princeton graduate. She's a former Marine captain who 282 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: was part of that one of those female engagement teams 283 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: going into some of the most dangerous parts of Afghanistan. 284 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: But she ended up leaving active duty after she decided 285 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: that her only future as a woman in the Marines 286 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: was a lifetime of logistics or support units. Essentially, she 287 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's like taking a job and realizing that 288 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: you're never going to get beyond a mid level manager position. 289 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: You got to move on, right. And they point out 290 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: that of the women who have served since September eleven 291 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: report having served in a combat center area where they 292 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: receive combat or imminent danger pay. They also argue that 293 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: the band was putting women in danger because in many cases, 294 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: women fight alongside men, and these female engagement teams that 295 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: we talked about, they endure the same conditions, but because 296 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: they're not deemed combat eligible, they don't receive proper training. Yeah, so, 297 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: in a way, the Combat Exclusion Band is putting female 298 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: soldiers at greater risk when they're out there. And as 299 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: Time magazine reports, at least eight hundred and sixty female 300 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: troops have been wounded in a hundred and forty four 301 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: have been killed in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. So 302 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: even though they might not have ficially be fighting in 303 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: combat roles, clearly because of the changing nature of modern warfare, 304 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: it's it's not protecting them from it's not guaranteeing them 305 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: and they're not going to be hurt or killed, right, 306 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: And because of all this wink wink, nudge nudge, you're 307 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,479 Speaker 1: in combat but you're not really, let's not talk about it. 308 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, that does, as we talked about, you know, 309 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: prevent these women from rising through the ranks, but it 310 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: also prevents them just from being recognized from their heroism 311 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: and their accomplishments. Yeah. Major Mary Jennings Hagar, who was 312 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: one of the a c l U plaintiffs as well, 313 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: received a Purple Heart and the Distinguished Flying Cross for 314 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: quote outstanding heroism and selfless devotion to duty after she 315 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: rescued her helicopter crew after their helicopter was shot down 316 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. But at the same time, even though she 317 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 1: did all of that, she didn't receive recognition for fighting 318 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: in a combat role. And so it's it's the same 319 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: thing of like, no, we're we're doing We're doing all 320 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,239 Speaker 1: of this, and we can do all of this. And 321 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: I think I think we also need to mention that 322 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: Representative Tammy Duckworth, who's a Democrat in Illinois U has 323 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: been one of the leading politicians who has been advocating 324 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: for the combat Exclusion band to be lifted. And she 325 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: lost both legs flying a helicopter INTERAC in two thousand four, 326 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: and so she can tell you firsthand that yeah, we 327 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: might not be technically fighting combat roles. I might not 328 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: be in the infantry, but we are certainly in the 329 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: line of fire. Yeah, exactly, there are I mean, speaking 330 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: of dangerous situations, there are some developments that are very 331 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: beneficial or will be very beneficial when they are implemented, 332 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: And one of those is that women's body armor is 333 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: being tested. And you might think, okay, well, so what no, 334 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: I mean, we really have not had women's body armor. 335 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: We've had women wearing small men's body armor, which is 336 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: not the same thing because women are shaped differently. Women 337 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: have hips, oh my gosh, boobs. So yeah, they would 338 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: even when they wore an extra small men's body armor suit, 339 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: it would still be too long, leave gaps that left 340 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: them vulnerable. And a lot of women were saying that 341 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: they would get severely bruised because the armor would rise 342 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 1: up on their hips and sit there uncomfortably, so they 343 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: would just be you know, bruised all over at the 344 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: end of the day. Yeah, and those those gaps that 345 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: left them more open to bullets and shrapnel, which only 346 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: attest to me to the hoots puff of these female 347 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: soldiers who were nevertheless wearing these highly uncomfortable improved outer 348 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: tactical vests and doing their jobs anyway at a heightened risk. Um. 349 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: But the innovations in the and the resources that the 350 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: military has been pouring into developing this body armor for 351 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: female soldiers has been a an indication that yet again, 352 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: you know, they were taking steps forward to lift the 353 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: combat ban, and some of these developments and inventions are 354 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: going to make the whole um strength and size discrepancy 355 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: argument a completely moot point. Yeah, there's been a lot 356 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: of stuff coming out of DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research 357 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: Projects Agency UM building exoskeletons and robots that can go 358 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: in and into battlefields and lift very heavy objects. So 359 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: either like sending a robot in or having these exo 360 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: skeletons that the soldiers can actually put on to give 361 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: them super human strength like Iron Man. Now, the video 362 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: of the robot mule is actually unintentionally hilarious. Did you 363 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: watch it? It's just it's completely silent. There's no music 364 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: or narration or anything. It's just this robot mule, headless, 365 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: headless robot mule that is like they're showing how it 366 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: can go up hills and over rocks and through bushes 367 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: and stuff, and it's just well, it's unintentionally hilarious and 368 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: I recommend that you google it. Yeah, because that the 369 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: upper body strength is something too. When we were looking 370 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: at reactions from a soldiers saying, you know what, like 371 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: when you are out and you have a soldier down, 372 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: you've got to run out there. You have all of 373 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: your gear on, which ways a million pounds estimated, and 374 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: and women don't have the strength to pick someone else 375 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 1: up toss them over the shoulders. But then there are 376 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: other people who say, you know what, I've actually seen 377 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: it in the battlefields of female soldiers doing this. So 378 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: I mean, if anything, though, it's good that there there's 379 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: technology moving moving that forward to you make that more 380 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: of a moot point. Yeah, and there is I just 381 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: like to point out a teddy Bear robot that goes 382 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: in and save soldiers. It has a teddy Bear on it, 383 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: well not really a teddy Bear, but it's got like 384 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: a bear head so that it's supposedly more comforting when 385 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: you're saving a terrified soldier. And in response to those 386 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: concerns over unit cohesion, whether men and women can you know, 387 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: stand side by side on the battlefield and not you know, 388 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: have emotions or sex get in the way. Um, there 389 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: have been numerous studies, and this was pointed out in 390 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: that article from Foreign Affairs. There have been numerous studies 391 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: coming out of the U S Army Research Institute of 392 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: Environmental Medicine, and the US Government Accountability Office UM, along 393 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: with various military and academic experts UH that find over 394 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: and over again that women's impact on unit cohesion and 395 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: their physical abilities is negligible. In other words, the conclusion 396 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: that most of these studs reach are that, Yeah, I 397 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: guess what, male and female soldiers can get along just fine, 398 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: and they can stick to the mission and complete it. 399 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: Maybe we need to win Harry met Sally on the battlefield. Battlefield, Yeah, 400 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: get it now? Okay? UM, So moving on from me 401 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: making terrible, half hearted jokes. UM, America is far from 402 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: the first country to let women into the military. Yeah. 403 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's another argument of Hey, you know what, 404 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: there are twelve other countries already doing this and they're 405 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: doing just fine. Yeah. Canada, Hey, Canada. Women were allowed 406 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: into all military roles there in seven, and as of 407 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: two thousand six, more than two hundred women were part 408 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: of the regular combat force and more than nine hundred 409 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: were part of the Reserve combat force. Yeah. Internet genius 410 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: Hillary Riisenberg over at BuzzFeed UM itemized all of these 411 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: countries that have already let women in combat. I mean 412 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: we're behind like Romania, Poland Finland. I mean you might say, well, no, 413 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: I mean this is the the American Army. The U. 414 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: S Military is the most elite military force in the world. 415 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: It's huge. You know, we can't apples to oranges. We're 416 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: talking about Poland Finland or you know, Sweden. Offense to Poland, 417 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: Finland or Sweden. UM, So of course it would take 418 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: a longer time. But uh, I think that there are 419 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: plenty of people, such as those four a c l 420 00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: U lawsuit plaintiffs, who would say it's past do yeah 421 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: for this to happen. And as far as I know, 422 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: that lawsuit is still pending because they sued Leon Panetta, 423 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: the Secretary of Defense. UM. And I'm not sure how 424 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: the lifting of the combat exclusion band affects that lawsuit. UM, 425 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: but I believe it is still in court, that it 426 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: didn't just magically disappear. I mean, not to be too 427 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: informal about this, but if Colleen Farrell would like to 428 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: right in, if she's listening and talk to us about it, 429 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: let us know. Let us know well. And and when 430 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: we when we posted about the combat exclusion band being 431 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: lifted on our Facebook page, there there were a couple 432 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: of people amid all of the high fives who said, sarcastically, 433 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: oh great, well, now women are you know, equal opportunity 434 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: to be shot at and killed? And there are you know, 435 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: moral arguments that well, should we really cheer on women 436 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: being evolved when war is wrong and this is violence, 437 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: and it's it's a product of you know, testosterone fueled 438 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: culture and all of these negative things. UM, and I 439 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: can understand. I can understand people's moral opposition to war, 440 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: but I cannot agree with um gender based discrimination in 441 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: the workplace, which is what this boils down to. So 442 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see, though, between now and January, 443 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: whether or not exclusions will still be put in place, 444 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: because the government said, hey, you know, if you you 445 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: have until sixteen to implement this, but you can still 446 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: make a compelling case for saying, hey, you know what 447 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: special ops forces. You know, we want to keep it 448 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: to these super elite forces. We're going to keep them 449 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: to two men only. And I have a feeling that 450 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: there will be still some that women are kept out of. 451 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: So military person all listening, I know that you're out there. 452 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: I want to know what's going on on on the ground. 453 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: Because of course, there were so many media stories after 454 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: that getting reactions from soldiers and I wonder now that 455 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: the dust is settled, just a little bit, um if 456 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: if it makes that big of a deal. There were 457 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,719 Speaker 1: some people who were saying kind of in the same 458 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: reactions to the donuts don't tell policy being lifted, where 459 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: it was like, it doesn't change anything day to day, 460 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: We're still doing our jobs. I would like to hear 461 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: how widespread my friends father's opinion is and feeling there's 462 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: a lot of that. Yeah, you know, I mean it 463 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: is the whole band of brothers kind of thing. I 464 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: I can. I can understand that I have a military 465 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: personnel in my family. I can. I can see that. Um. 466 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: But again, when it's like a skills based thing and 467 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: if women have the skills and they should be able 468 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: to apply for and get the job if they're qualified. 469 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: So send us your letters everyone, what what do you think? 470 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 1: And even if you're not in the military, what what 471 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: do you think about all of this mom stuff? At 472 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send those letters. Well, 473 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: I have an email here from Zara and this is 474 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: in response to our podcast on Vocal Fry and she 475 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: offers linguistic insight. She writes, you mentioned switching your accent 476 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: and speech patterns to match the person you're speaking to. 477 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: This is called style shifting or code switching by dialectical people. 478 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,719 Speaker 1: People who use two accents of the same language are 479 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: known to do this according to their interlocutor, often completely unintentionally. 480 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: I know I do it, and it gets on my 481 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: husband's last nerve because he says I have a fake 482 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: French accent. I'm a French speaking Quebecer with a lot 483 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: of French exposure, especially when I was a kid. My 484 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: French accent has devolved a bit since it's been a 485 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: long time since I've been in contact with French people, 486 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: but it's still completely unintentional stopping and actually requires a 487 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: conscious effort. On top of that, I quickly start matching 488 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: my interlocutors accent or speech patterns. I remember when a 489 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: Belgian friend came over for two weeks in Quebec. She 490 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: stayed with me, and after ten days I was starting 491 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: to have a Belgian accent. Oh, I wonder if I 492 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: could master a Belgian accent. And that's your next goal. 493 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: It's good to have goals. I'm convinced that if you 494 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: dropped me in Great Britain, I'd acquire a British accent 495 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Keep up the good work, So thanks Sarah 496 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: Accent sponge. Uh here's one from Lloyd Kristen. This is 497 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: a Canadian dude listener. He wanted to specify that he's 498 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: one of our guy listeners and we appreciate it. Lloyd says, 499 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: I think Canadian up speak is more subtle than the 500 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: examples you gave. It sounded more like Valley Girl than Canadian. 501 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: It seems Valley Girl up speak is up on the 502 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: second to last syllable than up again on the last syllable. 503 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: Canadians seems to be up on the second to last syllable, 504 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: then flat or even down a bit on the last syllable. 505 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna need examples, Kristen. I grew up in New Brunswick, Canada, 506 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: and didn't really notice it until I was away in 507 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: the US for a number of years and would talk 508 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: to people in the Maritimes, especially the rural areas. Given 509 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: all the Maritimes are pretty rural. I'm not much of 510 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: a linguist, so I had trouble putting my finger on it. 511 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: But there seems to be a difference. Valley Girl just 512 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: sounds unsure and questioning. Canadians seems to end every sentence 513 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: with the tonal equivalent of you know what I mean, 514 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: but I'm pretty biased, So thank you Lloyd. I'm trying 515 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: to think of what that would be because he said 516 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: it would go flat on the second to last syllables 517 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: like yeah, up on the second to last, then flat 518 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: or even down a bit on the last stible. I 519 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: will be trying to think of anything, and when Kristen does, 520 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: maybe we'll post a video for accent my yes uh 521 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,719 Speaker 1: so so. Thanks especially to our Canadian listeners for writing 522 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: in to Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com. That's where 523 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: you can send your letters. You can also send us 524 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,959 Speaker 1: Facebook messages like us there. While you're at it, you 525 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast and follow us 526 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: on Tumblr as well at stuff Mom Never Told You 527 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com, and you can read a lot 528 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: of articles over at our website as well. 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