WEBVTT - Find a Mentor 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.360 He works for me. Listeners, A quick note before we 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 start the show, we would love to hear from you. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.360 What work problems do you have? Have you tried any 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.200 of our productivity hacks to fix them? Leave us a 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.120 voicemail at two on two six months seven zero one 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:26.119 six six and we might play it on the show. Hey, 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.960 it's Becca. Recently I went to a podcasting conference and 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:35.040 I had a question, do you have a mentor? I've 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.760 had a number of mentors that boss is probably the 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.480 closest thing to my mentor that I go to them 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:42.919 for advice, like a couple of times a week. Can 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.400 I use them more for life purposes than I give 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.120 for audio purposes? Because I wish I had more of 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.519 a life mentor. My advice would just be to like, 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.120 only reach out to the people who like really get 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.120 you excited. And who do you think you could learn 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.520 from someone who's doing something that you're just did in 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:05.760 So I met my first mentor I had gone to 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.360 a radio conference. We just met and she scared me 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.280 a lot. And she was also the first like women 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:21.039 of color that I met in audio. So I contacted her, say, Hi, 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.400 I am I don't know is it this is weird, 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.000 but could you be a mentor? Her response was like 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.200 she was overjoyed, Like I was just waiting for you 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.360 to ask me. This whole weekend video would be like 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.520 I would look at your mentor. I think she just 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.160 felt flattered and I'm very lucky to have her as 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:40.160 my mentor. Just asking around it seems like everybody has 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.720 a mentor, everyone except for me. This week on Works 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:57.840 for Me, I go mentor hunting. Welcome back to Works 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:59.920 for Me, to show where we try out solutions to 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.680 our productivity problems to see if they will work for you. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:07.080 I'm Francesca Leity and I'm Becca Greenfield. This week it's 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.919 Becca's turn to take something that's going wrong at work 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.200 and attempt to fix it with an experiment. Becca, what 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.799 is your issue of the week. Basically, I've gone through 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.359 my whole career without much guidance. I have people I 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.200 can talk to when big things come up, like job changes, 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:27.040 but I don't have a dedicated person like a mentor 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.400 I can go to when any other work related issues 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.920 or anxieties come up. Do you have someone like that 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.680 in your life? Do you have a mentor? I don't. 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.400 I don't have anybody like that, and I totally understand 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:40.600 the desire for one. I think the closest I've ever 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:42.280 come to that was when I was in graduate school 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.520 and I had professors who helped me get into the 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.960 industry and help me get jobs, and I kept in 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.080 touch with some of them for a little while after 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.360 grad school, but those relationships have fallen off. In fact, 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:56.240 I saw somebody recently at an event who I at 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:57.960 one time I would have considered her mentor, and I'm 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:02.000 pretty sure she didn't remember who I was. Yeah, I 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.360 feel like that's one problem, is that these relationships don't 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.799 really stick where we feel like we're supposed to have them, 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.400 but there's not really a designated forum. I mean, there 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.800 are workplaces that do give people mentors, and I've talked 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:18.760 to some people and they say, usually those aren't the 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:20.639 people who end up being your mentors. So it just 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.200 seems like this elusive, magical thing we're supposed to have 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.760 and I don't really know how to find it. Yeah. 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.720 You hear a lot about about the value of mentor, 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.959 like in the kind of productivity circles that we run 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.840 in and the kind of productivity articles that we read. Um, 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:38.840 you know that stuff. Pops up all the time about 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.000 the importance of a mentor and how there are mentors 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.680 and there are sponsors of sponsors, like a mentor, like 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.840 plus somebody who who's not who won't just give you advice, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.200 but they'll advocate for you at work. So you hear 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.520 constantly about the value of a mentor, you don't necessarily 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.000 hear about like how to get one. Yeah, and that's 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:02.520 that's what I want to do. So your problem then, 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:04.400 really is that you don't have a mentor and you 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:08.240 want one. What is your plan to find one? Yea. 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.040 So we don't get a training manual for this. So 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.280 I went out and found someone who's very good at 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:19.400 finding mentors. I have two core traditional mentors that I've 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:24.159 had for over twenty years, and then as I've taken 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:29.360 on different roles personally and professionally, I've added mentors. So 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.080 maybe I have like any given time, maybe five to 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:37.920 seven that I'm actively talking with and connecting with. This 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:42.240 is Ellen Nsher. She's a professor at Loyola Marymount University 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.800 in Los Angeles, and she's the co author of a 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:49.520 book called Power Mentoring. She has spent decades researching mentors 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.559 and is a poet, finding them and keeping them. Ellen 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.320 is what I would call a mentor enthusiast. And the 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:59.000 reason she's so enthusiastic is because decades of research has 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.719 found the benefit of having one. There's a whole body 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.320 of research that we've been doing for thirty years that 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:12.880 shows definitively that people who have mentors actually make more money, 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:18.880 get promoted more rapidly, are more satisfied and happier with 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:23.120 their jobs. Life and work is hard enough, and you 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.880 don't always have to do everything the hard way. You 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.880 can learn from other people's experiences. I asked Ellen how 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.360 I could find a mentor, and she said, it's as 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:39.880 easy as following the four urs. Oh yeah, reading, writing, arithmetic, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.800 different different ours. What are the four ours? So the 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:48.159 first R is to reflect. Surprisingly, the whole how to 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.840 find a mentor starts with yourself, So you need to 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.880 take a moment and think about who you are and 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.360 what you want. After reflecting, step number two is re search. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.320 Once you figured out what you want out of a mentor, 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.280 Ellen says, research the go to people in your industry 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.480 and find the people that they mentor. She suggests an 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.479 all out internet deep dive find as much information on 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:18.680 potential mentors as possible. Then the third are is to 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.880 reach out. At this point, you've narrowed down a list 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.599 of people who you want as mentors. Now you have 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.280 to email them or call them and ask if they 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.479 will talk to you or meet with you. And the 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:35.080 last are is to reflect again. This happens after you've 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.839 already met up with them, and it's important for making 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:42.960 the relationships stick past the initial meeting. Reflect again and 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.000 ask yourself what is it I can do from my 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.760 mentor and how can I show appreciation? Because I think 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.440 a lot of times the reason that mentoring relationships don't 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.920 get off the ground or have an early fail is 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:03.160 because a protege goes in, has a meeting, sucks up 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.760 some time, the mentor makes a bunch of recommendations, and 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:12.200 then the protege gets busy doesn't follow up. So to summarize, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:17.520 the four ours, not reading, writing, arithmetic are reflect, research, 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.280 reach out, and reflect again. So reflect is in there 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.600 twice feels a little bit like a cheap But now 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.840 I mean I feel like that is there's nothing in 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.720 there that is so surprising. But I actually think it's 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.960 nice to have a roadmap, like just that there's somebody 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.160 out there who spent the time to think about what 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.239 the plan is for going out and finding a mentor, because, 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:41.040 like we said, you don't. It's just not something we're taught. 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:42.920 We're taught about the value of a mentor, but not 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:44.360 how to get one. So it's nice that she's giving 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.960 you steps. Yeah, I was. It's encouraging that there are 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.160 steps one can take instead of just waiting around to 0:07:51.240 --> 0:08:02.360 be a perfect person. So I'm assuming that doing the 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.360 four hours is going to be your experiment this week. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:06.960 That's correct. I'm going to do the four ours and 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.080 see if I can land me a mentor. How will 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.320 you know if you succeeded at fighting a mentor? One 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.520 of them are challenging aspects about a mentor relationship is 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.960 making it stick past that first meeting. But Ellen assured 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.600 me that within a month I should be able to 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.160 meet up with at least one mentor potential and if 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.920 it goes well, set up another meeting with them. Okay, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.880 So if you can get a meeting and then get 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.679 a follow up meeting, that's your definition of six sense. 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:47.880 That's right. Okay, So I need to reflect this is 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.320 step one of mentoring I need to reflect on who 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:57.000 I am, what I offer to someone else, my growing edges. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.719 So here I was reflecting in my apart mint. I 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.440 enlisted my boyfriend Danny, so I wasn't just talking to 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.360 myself about myself all alone. Ellen said a good way 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.840 to figure out what you want and a mentor is 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.760 to identify your strengths and what she calls a growing edge, 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.840 which is a uphemism for something you're not very good 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.200 at but you want to get better at. I'm Becca, 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.840 I'm a journalist, damn, and my editor tells me my 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.680 strengths are the I'm fast and I'm smart. I agree 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.880 with that. My growing areas I would like to be 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.400 be better at, like thinking of bigger story ideas and 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.320 be better at coming up with, you know, ideas for 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.439 things I want to pursue. I feel like I really 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.920 I get in my head about that. I found this 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:51.439 part challenging. It sounds like it's hard to talk about yourself, 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.240 and it's especially hard to say nice things about yourself. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:56.600 Or I find it hard, and I think many people 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.880 can relate to that. But after some reflection, I just 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.760 sided I wanted a mentor who could push me on 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.520 my story ideas. Ellen also said that during this step, 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.800 you're supposed to think of something that you can offer 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:14.719 your mentor so that the relationship isn't completely parasitic. I'm 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.440 happy to read things or give opinion on things. I'm 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:20.719 also really good at writing emails, so if they need 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.120 like an email editor, I feel like you can attest 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:28.679 to that. Yeah, you're pretty good. I mean, yes, I 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:30.800 I am also someone who thinks they are a good 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:37.120 email comes out. No, I just don't wanna be recorded 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.400 as saying someone who like constantly need to help with 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:45.080 their emails because constantly struggle your emails. I am always 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:52.160 helping my sad, sad poor boyfriend craft emails. So what 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:53.880 do you think is so great about your emails? That's 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:55.840 what I want to know. I mean, your emails are, 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.600 your emails are great. But I'm just wondering why you 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.920 listen as a skill because I think people come to 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.280 me and asked me to edit their emails often, and 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.240 I enjoy it, and I think I do a good job, 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.040 and I think that's a skill that I can offer 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:13.679 a potential mentor. Okay, after my reflecting period, I had 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.520 arrived at step two research. I had identified what I 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.120 wanted in a mentor somebody to push me on my 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.080 story ideas. It was time to find the right person 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:27.280 to help me with this growing edge. Ellen suggested thinking 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.160 of some superstars in my field and using LinkedIn to 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.560 find people related to them. I sat down with Toefort, 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:38.840 our producer, and we researched together. Well, so one idea 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.280 that I think I'm gonna do is Susan Arlene, which 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.600 is someone who's like such a reach I wouldn't even 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.839 think to reach out to her, but like, she's cool 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.360 and she has a podcast, cry Babies. I don't even 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:58.480 know if Susan relians on LinkedIn, so she is on 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.320 LinkedIn that she clearly does not use this website. I 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.480 mean it is not filled out at all. It says 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:10.440 experience writer and there is a blank photo that's supposed 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.200 to be filled in, and it just says in the 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.400 last forty years she's been doing that and that's the 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.480 whole thing. She's been very consistent. It doesn't even say 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:23.800 what publications she's She's a dead end. So it was 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.840 not just Susan Orlean. A lot of people in our 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.480 industry are not big users of LinkedIn, and it became 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.200 almost immediately clear that that was not going to be 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.760 a fruitful path for me. So I decided to do 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.520 my own version of internet research, and tofor suggested that 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.640 we look for people who have been interviewed on the 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.360 long Form podcast for inspiration. Are you familiar with that show? 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.480 I am. I'm a subscriber actually, for those who don't know, 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.120 long Form is a podcast where each week the hosts 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:55.440 interview writers, editors, and journalists about their careers. So I 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.560 went through the roster of guests over the years to 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.320 try to find some potential candidates. After twenty minutes, Tob 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.400 and I had a solid list of ten people. It 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.200 was a nice representation of people who do the different 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:12.000 things that I do from my job. It was writers, reporters, podcasters. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.680 I felt good about it, and once I had my names, 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:20.320 it was time for the third are reach out, which 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.120 is where things got scary. We'll see how that went 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:50.240 for me. After the right I had arrived at step three, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.839 which is reach out. This I think is the most 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.719 intimidating step. You have to email complete strangers, tell them 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.400 how much you like them, and then asked them for 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.520 their time. It took me a while to build up 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.559 to this step. About a week after I did my research, 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.320 I finally got the courage to contact my potential future mentors. 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.839 I sat down with my list of ten names and 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:18.280 their contact information, which was readily available online, and I 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.160 started writing an email to the first potential mentor on 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:26.920 my list, Susan or Lean. Hi, Susan, my name is 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:31.440 Becca Greenfield' reporter, writer, podcaster. I currently work at Bloomberg 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.000 and have worked at various other outlets since I started 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.520 working eight years ago. I guess I say work a 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.960 lot um. It took me at least four drafts to 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.600 write what I considered a decent email, and as we know, 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.120 you have very high email standards, so that must have 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:51.920 been an amazing email by the time you were done 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.760 with it. Yes, I was using my special skill. I 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.720 wanted to personalize it to Susan, but I also didn't 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.840 want to sound too neat. It's a very delicate balance. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.200 And then I had to do the hardest part, which 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.760 was sending. Ellen said a lot of people get stressed 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.680 about this step, understandably, so she has a check for 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.680 getting over it. I really recommend that people come up 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.320 with some kind of courage ritual so it might be 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.120 a poem, it might be a song, it might be 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.840 a quote. So a lot of people run into this trouble, 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.080 like reaching out to strangers as a problem, But it 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.160 never occurred to me to like have a little thing 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.040 that you always fall back on that makes you feel braver. Yeah, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.440 she sings a song, she sings, so I like amps 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.280 you up. So yeah, she she sings a song, and 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.960 she suggests that you just do something to make yourself 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.480 feel confident in the moment. What did you decide to 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.760 do for your courage ride rule? I picked a song 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.560 that always lefts my spirits And also bonus is a 0:15:55.600 --> 0:16:07.080 metaphor for my current tap. I Ain't no Mountain high 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:11.680 enough by Marvin Gay and Tammy Terrell. Okay, so the metaphor, 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.480 how is it is a mountain email. The email is 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.800 a tall mountain. That's right my stress climate. Well, there's 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.800 lots of metaphors. The email itself, this moment is a 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.400 mountain that it's not too high for me to climb over. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.560 I can do it, you can do it. Also finding 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.840 a mentor, it's the scary amount and the song goes 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.640 to keep me from getting to you. So that's the mentor. 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.960 The mentors on the other side of the mountain. The 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.640 emails not too tall for you to climb over, and 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.720 I didn't get to your mentor. That's great, thank you, 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:54.760 It's perfect. I thought about it now, so after reading 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.360 through my email one last time just in case, I 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:04.840 was ready to send it. I'm pretty nervous to send it. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:14.200 But first email, here we go, pressing send, Hey, okay, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:20.000 it's guy scary. Onto the next one. I found it 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.480 surprisingly exhausting to write and send that email. It took 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.800 a lot of emotional energy, and then I had to 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:30.440 do it in nine more times. Hi Erin Hayman Niche Jodi, Hi, Rebecca, 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.960 my name is Becca. My name is Becca Greenfield. I'm 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.080 a reporter. I'm on the race Class and Gender in 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.440 the right Place team here and I admire I feel 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.000 crazy looking for some guidance and how to go as 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:48.679 a writer, reporter and idea generator. So respectable, Marvin Gay, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:55.240 you inspire me submit. Sending the emails was so exhausting 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.520 that I only ended up emailing eight out of the 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.679 ten people on my list. I just stopped. Then it 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.879 was out of my hands. I had to wait for 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:11.240 responses and then right there right. Then I got one 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:17.240 and it was a rejection, A really nice rejection, but 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:22.960 a rejection. So I waited even longer. I refreshed my inbox, 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.399 waited more days passed. It felt like an eternity, and 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:35.359 then finally people responded, and they were more rejections. People 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.720 were very nice and sent me some incredibly thoughtful emails. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.280 Some of them had specific advice in them for me, 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.640 but they were for legitimate reasons, too busy to meet up. 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.400 I think if you're reaching out to people you admire, 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.159 there is a very real possibility that they're going to 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.120 be too busy putting time and energy into their own 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.640 careers to meet up with you. I think that's true. 0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.600 But I think that you might be underestimating how big 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.800 a deal is that people responded at all. Like I 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.440 think that they could have just ignored your email altogether. 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.560 After all, you were a stranger, and it sounds like 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.320 some of them gave you real advice or thought through 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.800 what you had written to them. So clearly the fact 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:14.320 that you put a lot of thought into your email 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.439 resulted in them putting some thought in their responses, And 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.560 I think that's it's kind of a win. Like you're 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.040 on their radar. Now, all I'm hearing is that I 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.800 sent a really good email. Yes, correct, I know, iratulations 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:29.800 on your amazing email. Thank you. I was genuinely delighted 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.240 to hear from people and very touched. Yeah, but it 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.480 didn't help me get closer to my goal. It didn't 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.239 get you exactly what you wanted. But I think it's 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.560 a nice lesson the next time you're scared of something 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.360 like that, because I think the assumption is these people 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.800 are going to be like, what the heck is this? 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.560 Totally ignore it. And actually you can get a lot 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:51.879 more out of people than you realize. People will give 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.000 you more of their time than you might expect. Dare 0:19:54.040 --> 0:20:00.159 I say, ain't now mountain high enough you? Dare? I 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:05.359 had to keep waiting. The holidays came, they went, and 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:11.080 then on January two, I got an email from Manus Samarodi. 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.600 Manusha is an accomplished journalist. She used to host a 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.600 popular radio show called Note to Self. Last year she 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:23.080 left to start her own podcast company called Stable Genius Productions, where, 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.600 among other things, she hosts their flagship show zig Zag. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.280 She was the perfect person to help me with my 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.639 growing edge. She had to put out hundreds of episodes 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:34.840 of her show, and she seemingly does not have a 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:39.399 problem coming up with good ideas. I responded immediately and 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:44.520 set up a meeting with her a week later. Hi. Hello. 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:47.600 We met up in her coworking space on a chilly 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.760 morning for coffee. I sat down, put my recorder between us, 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:53.760 and right then and there she gave me my first 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.800 tip of the morning, how to hold a microphone like 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.919 a pro something. This is gonna just gonna bug me, 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.320 but I really think you should talk like this and 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.280 then hand its musume. One minute in and I had 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.560 already learned something. Plus Manush had put me at ease. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.399 She made me feel okay asking her some of my 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.840 other career questions. After talking for a few more minutes, 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.119 I brought up my growing edge and I asked her 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.600 how I can get better at coming up with story ideas. 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.920 You can't do this in a vacuum. Ideas are iterative, right, Like, 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.720 it's not. The chances of you coming up with something 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:31.040 that's fully formed and totally baked and amazing are pretty 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.480 darn slim. Like what do the IRA glasses like? Your 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:38.200 ideas want to be bad? It's a team sport. Journalism. Yes, 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.960 there are people who just like put out amazing things 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.240 all on their own, but I don't think it's like 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.639 being an artist to paint something and has a vision 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.440 in their mind. I think I have ideas of where 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.320 I want to go, but there never they're never what 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.200 we end up doing. The news made me realize that 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.160 I was maybe putting too much pressure on my own 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:00.679 ideas and that I should seek out other people to 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.960 brainstorm with. We spent an hour talking about stuff like 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:07.240 this and remembering what Ellen said. I tried not to 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:09.280 just suck up her time, and I answered some of 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:13.680 her questions. Sadly, she did not request my email writing services. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.720 Maybe you consider another email and she'll just be so 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.320 willed by the quality that she'll ask for more help. 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:23.439 One can dream. Then, as we were wrapping up, I 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:28.040 had yet another challenge. Ellen said after the first meeting, 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:29.720 if things went well, I should try to get on 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.280 my mentors calendar again in the next month or so 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:36.159 to try and make the relationships stick. I asked manus 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:38.600 when she thought it would be reasonable for us to 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.480 meet up again. Look, I have two kids, I run 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.480 my own business, I host multiple podcasts, I traveled giving 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.200 a lot of talks. Time is not is the one 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:50.880 thing right now in my life I do not have, 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:57.840 but I do believe in like, like, this session was 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.000 extremely productive and fruitful and wonderful, And if I don't 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.919 see you for another six months to a year, I 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:05.600 really feel like we'll just pick up right where we 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:08.600 were because it was I hate this word speaking of 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.560 words authentic, but like we didn't both, do you know 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:13.479 what I mean? We just got to it, and like 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.560 I have a lot of time for people who I 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.240 feel like I can meet them right where we need 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:22.960 to be without the lead up to get there. Minusia 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.800 had already given me so much of her time to 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.240 ask her to commit to another meeting in the next 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.560 month or two felt selfish. She's busy, and I agree 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.640 with her. We got a lot out of our session. 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:36.879 I couldn't bring myself to ask for more, so I 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:41.439 left without scheduling another meeting. I love how skillfully she 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:43.879 kind of rejected you in a way, like when you 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:47.560 asked her about meeting up. It sounds like you gently 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:50.040 broached meeting up again without being direct about it, and 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:53.239 then she just had this way of like making it 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.680 a compliment to you that she wasn't gonna probably see 0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:58.879 you for her six months to a year. She's like, 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:02.880 that's high quality mental material right there. Yeah, I didn't 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:05.840 even think of it as a rejection. That's the first 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.480 time I'm thinking it as right. Sorry, Well you didn't 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:11.720