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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session four seventeen of Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. We couldn't let this month go

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Speaker 1: by without having a conversation about one of my favorite things. Music.

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Speaker 1: While we're only halfway through the year, there have already

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Speaker 1: been so many major moments, from iconic performances to albums

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Speaker 1: that push past genre limitations. These culturally defining moments have

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Speaker 1: all been sparked by artists we love, and we'd be

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Speaker 1: remiss not to celebrate the ongoing impact of black artists

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Speaker 1: in music. In honor of Black Music Month. I'm joined

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Speaker 1: by Makofarkante, staff writer at Rolling Stone, and Alisa Shannon,

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Speaker 1: short form content director at Billboard. Together we unpack some

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Speaker 1: of the standout moments of twenty twenty five so far,

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Speaker 1: talk about the artists who are redefining the rule, and

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Speaker 1: reflect on what black music continues to teach us about innovation, identity,

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Speaker 1: and joy. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,

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Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag

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Speaker 1: TVG in session, or join us over in our Patreon community.

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Speaker 1: Just talk more in depth about the episode, you can

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Speaker 1: join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com.

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Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Well, thank you both so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me today. I'm very excited. I always enjoy our

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Speaker 1: Black Music Month conversations, so I would love for you

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Speaker 1: both to introduce yourselves and let the audience know who

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Speaker 1: you are.

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Speaker 2: We will start with you. De Lisa.

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Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, My name is Delisa Shannon. I am a

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Speaker 3: video producer, host, content creator out in Brooklyn, New York

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Speaker 3: from his Soon originally and yeah that's me.

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Speaker 2: What about you?

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Speaker 1: Manca Fair?

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Speaker 4: Hi, am Manca Percanti I'm a staff writer at Rolling Stone,

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Speaker 4: where I mostly cover Black music, hip hop, R and B.

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Speaker 4: I love covering African pop music, and sometimes I dip

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Speaker 4: into like politics and comedy too.

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Speaker 1: So I always love when we have journalists on the

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Speaker 1: conversation because I feel like y'all are having a moment

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Speaker 1: and both some really great ways and maybe some not

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Speaker 1: so exciting ways. I think it's a great conversation, especially

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Speaker 1: for people who are interested in pursuing journalism, whether they're

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Speaker 1: in school now.

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Speaker 2: Or in the future.

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Speaker 1: And so can you start, maybe Macha Purbat's telling us

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Speaker 1: when you fell in love with music and what lets

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Speaker 1: you know you wanted to pursue music journalism.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 4: I got a boombox as a gift for my fifth

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Speaker 4: birthday and I had it ontol like graduated college. It

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Speaker 4: was like one of those CD tape radio combination players.

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Speaker 4: And I grew up as an only child, so I

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Speaker 4: spend a lot of time by myself listening to music,

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Speaker 4: and that evolved into like building a CD collection and

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Speaker 4: into watching a lot of music documentaries and historical accounts

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Speaker 4: archival accounts on like VH one, MTVBT. I really went

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Speaker 4: to school interested in doing more political journalism, and then

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Speaker 4: I was more interested in doing more sort of like

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Speaker 4: social justice work, like working in international development. My parents

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Speaker 4: are from Sierra Leone, and I was always really aware

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Speaker 4: of the difference in lives that me and my cousins

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Speaker 4: who are still on the continent lived. But luckily, while

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Speaker 4: I was kind of figuring out my way, Melissa Harris

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Speaker 4: Perry started teaching at my university and at the time,

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Speaker 4: she had this amazing show on MSNBC where she was

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Speaker 4: pulling all of my interests into one. You know, she's

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Speaker 4: a political scientist by training, but she's talking about Beyonce

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Speaker 4: and pop culture and why the things that we listen

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Speaker 4: to and engage with for fun matter and the impact

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Speaker 4: that they have on our day to day lives. And

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Speaker 4: so she took me under her wing as a mentor

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Speaker 4: and opened up a lot of opportunities for me to

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Speaker 4: also do similar work. One of my first professional writing

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Speaker 4: experiences was about Lemonade. I was a senior in college

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Speaker 4: and she had asked me to write about it for

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Speaker 4: Elle And there were all these different socio political elements

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Speaker 4: that my friends and I who she asked to write

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Speaker 4: with her, were pulling out of it, and I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 4: I can do something that I find like fun and

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Speaker 4: meaningful at the same time.

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Speaker 2: In music, journalism love it.

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Speaker 1: We always love a good nerd Land reference around here,

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Speaker 1: so I always stick scited to hear that amazing what

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Speaker 1: about you, de Lisa.

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Speaker 3: So my first introduction to what music and the power

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Speaker 3: of it can be. I used to be a dancer,

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Speaker 3: so I was exposed at a very young age just

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Speaker 3: so many different types of music. I was classically trained,

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Speaker 3: so there were super indie records that like I didn't

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Speaker 3: even know about that my life is just like exposed to.

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Speaker 3: And then there's also like super pop and all these

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Speaker 3: different things. And I realized how music and movement directly

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Speaker 3: connected to my body and how so much of my

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Speaker 3: processing of like everything that I was experiencing as a

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Speaker 3: young girl growing up in the suburbs of Houston, I

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Speaker 3: got to express through music and through movement. So that's

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Speaker 3: when I first fell in love with music. And then

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Speaker 3: I went to college for journalism, and at the time

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Speaker 3: I was obsessed with Quinta Brunson because she was at

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Speaker 3: BuzzFeed in LA and she was doing all these things

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Speaker 3: of pulling in pop culture and reflecting how our stories

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Speaker 3: are powerful even in the simple moments. I think she

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Speaker 3: had a really interesting perspective and so I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be Quintin Brunson. So I came to

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Speaker 3: New York and I worked at Busfeed, and I remember,

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Speaker 3: like my senior year of college, one of my journalism

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Speaker 3: professors was like, what are you trying to do? Like

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Speaker 3: he didn't really understand, and he was like, you need

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Speaker 3: to be serious, you need to like think about this

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Speaker 3: world seriously. And I was like, well, I seriously love

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Speaker 3: music and I seriously love storytelling. That's the only thing

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Speaker 3: I know. So I'm happy to say years later, we're

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Speaker 3: here and we're doing things. Shout out to Robert Jensen

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Speaker 3: for putting some fire under me. But yeah, I remember

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Speaker 3: working like a really boring desk job in New York,

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Speaker 3: and I felt the power again of how important music

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Speaker 3: was to me being in New York seeing all these

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Speaker 3: artists find their way through music and how it was happening.

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Speaker 3: And I saw this company genius who was fought lighting

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Speaker 3: people like Billie Eilish and Doja Cat but also like

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Speaker 3: Ogeez like with Khalifa, and I was just like, I

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Speaker 3: need to be a part of that it was the

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Speaker 3: only thing that I knew that was true. Again, it

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Speaker 3: brought me back to that time of being a dancer.

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Speaker 3: It brought me back to that time where I was

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Speaker 3: questioned by that journalism professor like get serious, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, okay, well, I seriously love.

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Speaker 2: This, and so I've been in music ever since. I

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Speaker 2: love that.

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Speaker 1: So both so very different stories that would brought you here,

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Speaker 1: but both doing incredible work. So what three words would

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Speaker 1: you use to describe the current musical.

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Speaker 2: Landscape that's big? Malcofreddy to take this one first.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm trying to think.

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Speaker 4: The first word that I'm thinking is I'm thinking of

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Speaker 4: a word that's like the opposite of monocultural. Like I

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Speaker 4: think that when we were growing up, like there were

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Speaker 4: these big singular stars that like all of us rallied

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Speaker 4: around Beyonce, Usher, Kanye West, Rihanna and like those people

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Speaker 4: are still very famous. But I think that the music

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Speaker 4: ecosystem now is so so diverse and individualized. Maybe as

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Speaker 4: a word that I would say, right, like, not only

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Speaker 4: do we have platforms like Spotify and Apple truly like

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Speaker 4: making you know, eclectically named playlists for what kind of

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Speaker 4: music you listened to? Throughout different portions of the day,

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Speaker 4: Right you'll get like Yogi, Hot Girls summer morning or

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Speaker 4: whatever on Spotify. But I think that also people have

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Speaker 4: found like much more niche communities as far as they're

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Speaker 4: listening as well. And we don't have as many of

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Speaker 4: these like mega superstars as I think we've historically had

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Speaker 4: over the past, maybe even like forty fifty years, But

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Speaker 4: there are people who mean a lot to these like

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Speaker 4: tight engaged, smaller communities of listeners and artists. So that's

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Speaker 4: my first word. I would say, maybe like individualized.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what about you de Lisa, I would.

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Speaker 3: Say, like the most simple is like exploratory. I think

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Speaker 3: monkber to what you're saying. Like before, there was like

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Speaker 3: a path and it was like you do this, you

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Speaker 3: do this, you do this, and so that's how we

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Speaker 3: kind of had our mount rushmore of R and B artists,

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Speaker 3: hip hop artists, pop artists, black specifically, because there was

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Speaker 3: a bit of a mold, and I feel like what

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Speaker 3: we're seeing now is people actually trying to find themselves

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Speaker 3: through the craft. I think obviously that was happening before,

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Speaker 3: and there were ways that was happening on a small level,

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Speaker 3: and then once you got big, it got smaller and

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Speaker 3: smaller and more contained. But what I feel like, what

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Speaker 3: I'm seeing now is like I'm seeing so many people

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Speaker 3: experiment and experience things, literally going through something and then

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Speaker 3: immediately putting it into the music. And then I think

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Speaker 3: that is that intimacy that I think we have with these.

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Speaker 2: Artists right now.

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Speaker 3: I guess that would be my second word, is because

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Speaker 3: that humanity is being expressed through their music in ways

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Speaker 3: that I feel like that hasn't happened in the past

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Speaker 3: and hasn't been celebrated for in the past. On a

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Speaker 3: grand scale, I feel like it's more common to see

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Speaker 3: someone do a pop album and then do a rock

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Speaker 3: infused album and then do something like super boombab, like

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Speaker 3: dog like hip hop and rap and like really to

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Speaker 3: the source, and they could do something completely different the

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Speaker 3: next day. And as a fan, I'm excited because I

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Speaker 3: get to see this person figure themselves out, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's so special. I feel like that's not something

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Speaker 3: that we had to look up to when I was

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Speaker 3: younger listening to music.

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Speaker 4: For sure, that realise that also makes me think of

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Speaker 4: how global music has gotten And I think that would

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Speaker 4: be my second word because I think that it's not

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Speaker 4: only exploratory, like from the artist's standpoint, but from the

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Speaker 4: listener's standpoint. People are so open minded where there's so

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Speaker 4: many people willing to listen to music and languages they

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Speaker 4: don't speak or understand, to like travel sonically in their listening,

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Speaker 4: and that also, like I've seen that turn into like

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Speaker 4: actual physical traveling. Right. Like I was in Nigeria for

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Speaker 4: the first time this December, and everybody was saying, We've

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Speaker 4: never seen this many people in the streets. The traffic

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Speaker 4: is usually bad in Christmas time, but it's never been

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Speaker 4: this bad. And it kind of feels like the heightened

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Speaker 4: travel and tourism to leg Us in December is also

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Speaker 4: fueled by this heightened presence globally of like afrobeats and

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Speaker 4: African culture and legos being the center. And so I think,

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Speaker 4: especially as like a daughter of African immigrants growing up

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Speaker 4: in African culture, it's been such a blessing to really connect,

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Speaker 4: especially with other Black folks throughout the diaspora, Black American folks,

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Speaker 4: Black Latin folks. It's been really really cool to see

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Speaker 4: us all connect and see what like the origins of

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Speaker 4: our music have in common, and like what that has

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Speaker 4: built up to now in other places.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love these words that y'all have chose, because

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Speaker 1: I think that it does feel like there is a

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Speaker 1: real kind of innovation happening right and people being very experimental,

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Speaker 1: Like you mentioned Delisa in the work that they're doing

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Speaker 1: with music. How do you feel like listeners are responding

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Speaker 1: to the ways that black women specifically are being innovative

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Speaker 1: and reclaiming genres in a lot of ways in their

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Speaker 1: music right now.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's up.

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Speaker 3: It is so up, And I think it's like it's

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Speaker 3: beautiful for you, said Monkoper, like monocultural. It's like it's

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Speaker 3: not that, it's the exact opposite of that. And I

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Speaker 3: think for the first time, it's like looking at celebrity

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Speaker 3: or artistry, and for the first time for me, it

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Speaker 3: feels like it's like a prism of light, Like I

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Speaker 3: can see so many different reflections of myself in different

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Speaker 3: phases of my life. And that's what's so, so so

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Speaker 3: special about what we're getting to see with black women

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Speaker 3: specifically in all types of genres. I can wake up

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Speaker 3: in the morning and be like, I want to listen

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Speaker 3: to Alameda. I will listen to Rachel cheririy. I want

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Speaker 3: to listen to Doci, I want to listen.

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Speaker 2: To Flo Millie.

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Speaker 3: Those are four completely different artists. And the fact that

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Speaker 3: I can I can go and find exactly what is

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Speaker 3: a reflection of me and where I am.

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Speaker 2: I think that's so special.

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Speaker 3: How every day I can have a different mood, my

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Speaker 3: expression of like how I dress can match with a

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Speaker 3: different artist too. Like it's so vast what I feel like,

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Speaker 3: what we're getting to see and witness being produced from

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Speaker 3: Black women. That's like, yeah, it really is just up

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Speaker 3: for us, and it's not stopping. It's only getting more

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Speaker 3: amplified and more diverse and more free.

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Speaker 5: Really, yeah, I completely agree.

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Speaker 4: Like I think about how things that maybe you might

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Speaker 4: have seen as like contradictory, right, Like you might like

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Speaker 4: Leon Lahavis and you might like Sexy Red, and you

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Speaker 4: might feel I think there's like a version of us

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Speaker 4: in the past that might feel like you can't be

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Speaker 4: fans of like women that are so different at the

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Speaker 4: same time. But to your point, De Lisa, I think

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Speaker 4: that we are seeing little bits of ourselves and so

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Speaker 4: many different types of women, And I think that there's

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Speaker 4: just been like a mold that's been able to be

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Speaker 4: broken about what a black woman artist has to sound like,

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Speaker 4: what she can do, where she can go. And that's

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Speaker 4: been really like a really cool and inspiring moment to

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Speaker 4: live in as a listener and as a journalist.

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Speaker 1: Yan I want to stay with you for a second

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Speaker 1: Minchael Burber, because you write the maiden Africa column for

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Speaker 1: a Rolling Stone, and so I do feel like, as

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Speaker 1: you've talked about African artists are having, it feels like

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Speaker 1: a continued moment and just are on the rise. What

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Speaker 1: role do you feel like people like Tams and Uncle

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Speaker 1: Woffle are playing in terms of like opening the door

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Speaker 1: for future generations of African women musicians.

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Speaker 4: Man, I love thinking about Thames, especially because I find

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Speaker 4: her story so so inspiring because Thames she started out

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Speaker 4: producing her own music because she was so interested. She

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Speaker 4: grew up listening to like Low Wayne and Destiny's Child

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Speaker 4: and like of course, like you know, the African pop

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Speaker 4: music that was popular where she grew up and throughout

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Speaker 4: the diaspora. But she wanted to do that and more.

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Speaker 4: And then when she was starting her career, she couldn't

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Speaker 4: find people who were willing to take her sound in

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Speaker 4: all the different directions that she wanted to take it,

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Speaker 4: so she had to learn how to make it herself.

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Speaker 4: And I think that, you know, speaking of genre and

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Speaker 4: like speaking of boxes, I think that that on a

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Speaker 4: smaller level happens to like artists from especially West Africa,

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Speaker 4: Like they all get lumped into like afrobeats, when people

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Speaker 4: are making R and B, people are doing rap, people

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Speaker 4: are making rock, like, people are doing all types of

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Speaker 4: things and often you know, weaving in sort of like

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Speaker 4: traditional percussion patterns or traditional instrumentation into it, but also

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Speaker 4: sometimes they're not. And I think Thames is one of

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Speaker 4: the first people from that scene. She even like is

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Speaker 4: thought of as part of a scene called Alte, which

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Speaker 4: have artists like Amare Santi who were doing really experimental

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Speaker 4: like pop music out of Nigeria and Ghana primarily, and

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Speaker 4: she really took that globally and that resonated with so

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Speaker 4: many different people. Think about how many videos you've seen

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Speaker 4: of like Black Girls on vacation with Free Mind playing

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Speaker 4: in the background, right. I think that she's really become

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Speaker 4: someone we can all kind of be drawn to.

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Speaker 5: And like see ourselves.

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Speaker 4: And even though she grew up a world away from

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Speaker 4: those of us who grew up in the US or London.

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Speaker 1: So is there a moment so far this year in

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Speaker 1: music that has made a lasting impression on either of you?

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Speaker 4: Ooh yeah, Doci's Grammy win de Lisa? Is that what

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Speaker 4: you were gonna say?

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Speaker 3: I was like, the first thing that popped up was

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Speaker 3: the Tom Brown look her and like the undies and

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Speaker 3: everybody just dancing around her.

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Speaker 2: That was the first image that popped up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, because it's like, not only did she make

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Speaker 4: history as like the third woman ever to win Rap

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Speaker 4: Album of the Year, but then she performed and just

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Speaker 4: set it on fire and showed exactly why she deserved

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Speaker 4: that Grammy, her very first Grammy. And I think there

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Speaker 4: are a lot of us who are like cheering and

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Speaker 4: rooting for Doci for a couple of years before this moment,

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Speaker 4: but it's like everybody got to see what we've seen

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Speaker 4: in that night. It's really been incredible to watch this

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Speaker 4: like black girl who is so vocal about being a

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Speaker 4: black girl, so vocal about being dark skin, so vocal

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Speaker 4: about being queer, vocal about being from Florida's a vocal

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Speaker 4: about her community and also not fitting in there, like

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Speaker 4: putting Tampa where she grew up on her back and

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Speaker 4: also saying like I didn't fit in.

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Speaker 5: I was really out of.

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Speaker 4: The box for the people that I was around, but

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Speaker 4: I still love them and they're a part of me

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Speaker 4: and also someone you know. I think it'll be nice

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Speaker 4: to see doc if she can continue to be as

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Speaker 4: vulnerable as she's been, because inevitably, with that kind of

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Speaker 4: spotlight on you, you will make mistakes. And I think

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Speaker 4: that it's important, you know, as far as like us

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Speaker 4: seeing the whole person.

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Speaker 5: Now our lives are so thirty.

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Speaker 4: Sixty with like social and the way that we interact

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Speaker 4: with each other online. I think she's going to need

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Speaker 4: like a lot of support, but I hope she feels

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Speaker 4: the freedom to really just be who she is whatever

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Speaker 4: whatever happens.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything else about that DOCI moment that she

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Speaker 1: would add to Lisa that has made that a last

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Speaker 1: thing impression for you?

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Speaker 3: I have so much pride in Doci, and like I

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Speaker 3: personally haven't felt this much like personal connection to an

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Speaker 3: artist maybe like ever. I think that I appreciate artists

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Speaker 3: for what they do, but I think her story of

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Speaker 3: doing the mold right, of doing the pop thing, of

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Speaker 3: doing the lane that she was supposed to and then

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Speaker 3: feeling like this, like this tension of like this isn't me,

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Speaker 3: and then being able to strip all of that away

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Speaker 3: and put her mind to this Alligator Bites Never Heel

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Speaker 3: mixtape project and then it changing her life. That story

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Speaker 3: for me and my life is like that is the

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Speaker 3: motivation that I often come back to and why it

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Speaker 3: was so important to see her on that stage, Like

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Speaker 3: you said, Machberg, she gets that win and then she

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Speaker 3: shows us exactly why and exactly who she is.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, I think it's.

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Speaker 3: A true testament to you know what you're talking about,

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Speaker 3: that vulnerability. I think she's kind of I wouldn't say

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Speaker 3: mastered it, but I think she's getting familiar with that

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Speaker 3: practice of fracture and rebuild and self and I think

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Speaker 3: that having that right now for us black women to

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Speaker 3: see is so it's so important to me because it's

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Speaker 3: in the music, it's everywhere. It's in the like high

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Speaker 3: hats that she's using, it's in the references to her

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Speaker 3: home and feeling like she doesn't belong, and then the

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Speaker 3: dreamlike dreamscapes in La and like where she's going towards,

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Speaker 3: Like all of that was put into one project and

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Speaker 3: so then to be able to see everybody else be like,

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Speaker 3: who the hell is this? If they didn't know, now

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Speaker 3: they do know. I had people texting me like your

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Speaker 3: girls up, we up. I'm like, yes, We're so up.

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Speaker 3: Like I think it's like what she is doing, especially

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Speaker 3: for darker skin black women. I think it is top

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Speaker 3: tier for me, and I'm so happy that that's where

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Speaker 3: we started. You started the year with her, and I

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Speaker 3: think she's going to continue to ride this momentum because

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Speaker 3: she has a very solid foundation of being grounded, and

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Speaker 3: I think that's what's so important for me to also see,

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Speaker 3: is like she did the work to put the roots

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Speaker 3: and now we're getting to see this through.

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Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. I want to

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Speaker 1: go back to something you say in Malka Her because

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Speaker 1: you mentioned like the role social media please, and I

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Speaker 1: think that this is a big one, right, like because

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Speaker 1: you know, earlier you mentioned the intimacy, and it feels

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Speaker 1: like there is a part of like getting to know

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Speaker 1: artists a little bit on social that does maybe add

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Speaker 1: to the music value. But I also feel like there

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Speaker 1: is this other side that you kind of mentioned Machapear

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Speaker 1: around the criticism and you know, people can be very harsh.

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Speaker 1: And so what role do you feel like social media

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Speaker 1: is playing with the music industry right now, specifically as

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Speaker 1: it impacts black women artists.

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Speaker 4: Man, my mind went to Doja Cat first. I think

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Speaker 4: there are so many different relationships that like black women

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Speaker 4: have had with social media. Like you have people who

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Speaker 4: are really, I think reserved, Like I think Thames's social

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Speaker 4: media personality is really reserved, Like they're not always the

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Speaker 4: most polished photos. But she's not having a lot of conversations.

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Speaker 4: I remember one time people assumed that the imagery and

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Speaker 4: the music video for her song Me and You was

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Speaker 4: alluding to eurob a deity, and she was like, no,

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Speaker 4: this is about my relationship with Jesus Christ actually, But

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Speaker 4: like she doesn't really pop into like correct record or

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Speaker 4: respond to criticism online that much. But like Dojakat is

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Speaker 4: like an artist of the internet, right, Like she grew

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Speaker 4: up in online communities that, like her music started populating

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Speaker 4: and tending getting popular on SoundCloud when that was like

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Speaker 4: a platform that a lot of different people were able

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Speaker 4: to kind of like build a life and career. And

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Speaker 4: she was really out there, really polarizing, and we've seen

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Speaker 4: her dip in and out of the online space, and

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Speaker 4: so I think it's like a double sided opportunity with

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Speaker 4: the social media is like you really get to be

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Speaker 4: whoever you want, but you get to hear what everybody

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Speaker 4: thinks about it. And I think that black women in

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Speaker 4: particular that can be subjected to so many particular types

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Speaker 4: of criticism, right, whether it's like too aggressive, too sexual,

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Speaker 4: all kinds of things that kind of go back to,

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Speaker 4: like you know, age old stereotypes that can make it

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Speaker 4: particularly a harsh environment. But I think it's really interesting

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Speaker 4: to see how different people have decided who they're going

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Speaker 4: to be, where, when and why.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I see that a lot.

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Speaker 3: My role at Billboard is short form content director, right,

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Speaker 3: and short form content is such a no one has

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Speaker 3: a real definition for it right now, but it's a

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Speaker 3: lot of those bite sized moments of connecting with artists

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Speaker 3: and audience that's like whittled down, that's the definition. So

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Speaker 3: social media something that I often find even with myself

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Speaker 3: as a creator of this content, is like this is

439
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 3: now a part of the job. Before social media was

440
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 3: just a place to connect and now it's becoming well,

441
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 3: now we have thirty minutes before you go on stage

442
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 3: that you once took for yourself, but now you've got

443
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 3: to turn it on and be back to that person

444
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 3: that we want.

445
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 2: You to be.

446
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 3: And I am very aware of black women in that

447
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 3: space because I can see the work that we're both doing.

448
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: Like a perfect example of this is like Coco Jones.

449
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 3: It was like a breath of fresh air being around

450
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 3: her and creating content with her because I felt like

451
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 3: she had boundaries that were safe and healthy for her,

452
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 3: and I think she's worked really hard to figure out

453
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 3: what those are, because, yeah, you know what it's like

454
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 3: to be on the internet and not feel comfortable, but

455
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: you know you have to. And so I see that

456
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 3: now a lot more with black women and black women

457
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 3: in music making sure that they aren't being taken advantage of.

458
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: It's like, if you get five minutes, you get five minutes,

459
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 3: you get two questions. It's gonna be those two questions.

460
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give it to you. I know what my

461
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 3: job is because I respect my job and I respect

462
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 3: this craft, and I respect the audience who is going

463
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 3: to be on the other side of this and the

464
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: opportunity that they have to connect with me. But I

465
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 3: won't overextend. I won't go across my boundaries, and that's

466
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 3: been really inspiring for me as I navigate this career

467
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: in this thing called social media and knowing how much

468
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 3: more of it is a part and not an accessory.

469
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 3: It's woven in viral moments are baked into a press

470
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: tour or sought out for a press tour to make

471
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 3: sure that that person can get butts and seats for

472
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: a tour, and because of that, we have a different

473
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 3: relationship to it. So the very interesting thing that I

474
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 3: think about constantly and wanting to respect everyone's time because

475
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 3: I know social media and the Internet isn't a place anymore.

476
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: We exist in.

477
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 3: It, and I want to create and respect boundaries that

478
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 3: respect the artistry that I respect.

479
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, DEI, So that makes me think about just how

480
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 4: brave black women have to be to be like not

481
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 4: just like public facing people period, but public facing people

482
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 4: in the Internet age and the social media age. Like

483
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 4: I was thinking about the interview that Chloe Bailey did.

484
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 4: Her and her sister have gone through very very difficult things,

485
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 4: very very publicly, very much charged by social media, right

486
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 4: like looking at like the unfortunate circumstances of Hallie's relationship

487
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 4: with the father of her child and him sicking according

488
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 4: to her and her legal filings, like secking his audience

489
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 4: on her that he has as like a twitch star whatever,

490
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 4: there is like conflict in their relationship. And I remember

491
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 4: Chloe Howie's sister is saying in an interview on The

492
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 4: Breakfast Club after this December, she was a topic of

493
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 4: conversation on social media because it seemed as though she

494
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 4: was spending a lot of intimate time with burna boy,

495
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 4: and one of the hosts was just like, you don't

496
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 4: have to talk about this or something to that extent,

497
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 4: and she was like, but I do understand that, Like

498
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 4: I'm a public person and I signed up to make

499
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 4: music and make public art, and I do understand that

500
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 4: this is a part of it. So this is what

501
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 4: I am willing to say to defend myself, to correct

502
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 4: the record, but everything else is out of my hands.

503
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 4: And I thought that was like really really sweet and

504
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 4: mature and like far more than we really can ask

505
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,239
Speaker 4: of her, but super responsible as an artist and a

506
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 4: professional to say, like, what y'all do with my life

507
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 4: is what y'all do, and what I'm going to give

508
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 4: you is what I'm going to give you.

509
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: So I don't feel like we can have a conversation

510
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: about black music this year in particular without thinking about

511
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: as we've already talked about, like the genre, exploring and

512
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: kind of reclaiming genres, without talking about old Renaissance and

513
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: Cowboy Corder and Denisa, I would love to hear from you,

514
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 1: specifically as a Texas person, what do you feel like

515
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: Cowboy Carter really unlocked for black women.

516
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 3: I say this as like I have a little cowboy

517
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 3: boot right there, and I have a whole closet full

518
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 3: of Cowboy parent I'm just glad that we're here, okay,

519
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: cause I've been waiting.

520
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 2: Okay.

521
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 3: I think what I have said a lot in my

522
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: life coming from Texas to New York and expressing that

523
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: relationship to music with people, black country music, black folk music,

524
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 3: that is the bedrock of everything that we are like

525
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: as people. It's one of the most American quote unquote

526
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 3: things that we have. Is this thing that black people

527
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: have created for freedom, for connection, community, for elation. It

528
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 3: is the truest thing. And so I think when people

529
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 3: first were like, Okay, we got a country album and

530
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 3: there's parts of it that are a little kitchy, right, It's

531
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 3: like the finger guns and the like this that right, Like, yes,

532
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 3: there are some things that are really all the knows,

533
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 3: I will say that, But when you press play on

534
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 3: that album and you hear American Requiem and you hear

535
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 3: the fullness of the voice, that production isn't by happenstance, right,

536
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: It's not to make a good, nice song like that

537
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 3: was the introduction of what Beyonce's reimagination of where she's from.

538
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 3: Like I get chills even thinking about it, because the

539
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 3: way the track is produced it's so powerful, and then

540
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: this beautiful story is told so many different fibers and

541
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 3: textures of black country, black rock, black Americana. It's like

542
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 3: I think it's you know, everyone's coming to the tour

543
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 3: and they've got there, they've got the outfits on. But

544
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: again it's like when she's standing there and.

545
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: She's singing these songs that are so.

546
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 3: Natural and organic, like you can't not help but get

547
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 3: emotional thinking about it. It's yeah, she did that and

548
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 3: then some on this album. But also I think even

549
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: the way that like Blackbird, that she's opening the door

550
00:28:54,880 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: for these other black country female artists too also feel

551
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 3: connected to this thing in this way and introduce them

552
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: to people who they create distance from country because of

553
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 3: the whiteness, because of the racism.

554
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: It's truly truly special.

555
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 4: I think that one of the things that has always

556
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 4: been true for Beyonce is every project I think is

557
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 4: better than the last in some way.

558
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 5: And I don't know if, like if it.

559
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 4: Is from her being able to pour so much of

560
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 4: her culture and how she grew up into this album,

561
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 4: but I think it's the most powerful she's ever sang.

562
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 4: I think some of these songs are the most complex,

563
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 4: you know that she's written and co produced or had

564
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 4: produced for her. And I think that the reclamation of

565
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 4: genre is really interesting to me because I also I'm

566
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 4: seeing ripples of it elsewhere. I even am seeing in

567
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 4: like in Sinners. I actually just had a conversation with

568
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 4: Ryan Coogler about music in that film, and he was

569
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 4: talking to me about seeing the parallels in the way

570
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 4: that artists have been pigeonholed because they are black in

571
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 4: music to the ways that filmmakers are pigeonholed in his industry.

572
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 4: Beca from the very beginning, music that was rock and roll,

573
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: that was country was just race records.

574
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 5: They were like.

575
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 4: Music was primarily brought through catalogs, and so everything else

576
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 4: was segregated, and so the catalogs are segregated, and literally,

577
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 4: you know, like black artists could be singing or have

578
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 4: created the same song that a white artist is singing,

579
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 4: and that gets to be rock and roll, or that

580
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 4: gets to be country, but what the black artist is

581
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 4: doing has to be R and B or it has

582
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 4: to just be a race record. And I think that

583
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 4: watching how even in that movie, it disrupts genre because

584
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 4: it's not just a horror film. It's an action film,

585
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 4: it's a period piece, it's a romance, it's a comedy,

586
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 4: and so many black artists and black women in particular

587
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 4: are rejecting these boxes that they're put in. I think

588
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 4: Beyonce has done it in like one of the most

589
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 4: culture shifting ways this.

590
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 5: Year with Cowboy Carter.

591
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 4: And I mean, I think that it's a difficult conversation

592
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 4: right to reclaim an American identity in a moment where

593
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 4: a lot of awful things are being done in the

594
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 4: name of an American identity or americanism or American patriotism.

595
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 4: But I think that sometimes as an African woman, I

596
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 4: have conversations with multi generational black American women and they'll

597
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 4: sometimes it'll break my heart when people will be like, Oh,

598
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: I don't have a culture like.

599
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 5: You, And that's so far from the truth.

600
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 4: Like so much of what defines American culture as a

601
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 4: whole is actually Black American culture first. And there are

602
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 4: so many different elements of Black American culture, so many

603
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 4: different layers from even from regions, Like it varies so

604
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 4: much from regions to region, right, which is what we're

605
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: seeing in Cowboy Carter. And so I think it is

606
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 4: really beautiful for there to be like a claim stake

607
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 4: for being originators, for having something special and unique and

608
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 4: like communal and cultural, and the bigger question of like

609
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 4: what does it mean to be American is like a

610
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 4: complicated one.

611
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: Do you feel like we will see a lasting impact

612
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: of other Black women being able to kind of stretch

613
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: across genres from the ways that like Beyonce has opened

614
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: up and even Meg collaborating with K pop stores, Right,

615
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: you feel like this is the beginning of a lasting

616
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: impact or more of a trend kind of thing.

617
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 5: That's such a good question.

618
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 4: I love that you brought up Megan k pop because

619
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 4: I feel like it goes back to that, Like both

620
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 4: the conversation about globalization and social media, Like we are

621
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 4: so connected to each other and we're so aware of

622
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 4: what's going on in all these different corners of the world,

623
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 4: and we have been allowed to be and have so

624
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 4: many models of like expansiveness that I think that what

625
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 4: genres are popular, right, like what kinds of collaborations and

626
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 4: what kinds of experiments happen are reliant on trends. But

627
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 4: I think just like the general practice of reaching beyond

628
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 4: what you're told, that you can do what's popular from

629
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 4: just where you're from, what even you were doing earlier

630
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 4: in your career. To Delese's point, like, I think that

631
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 4: general practice of doing whatever you want, I think that's

632
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: going to stick around.

633
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: So are there any other artists that you both want

634
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: to put on the radar or who you also feel

635
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: like are doing some exciting and innovative work in terms

636
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: of stretching beyond genres.

637
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 3: I was gonna say Raven Lenney, I feel like being

638
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 3: able to see her music have this like three hundred

639
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: and sixty five day like light bulb, Like people were like,

640
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: oh wait, she's making this kind of music. I think

641
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 3: obviously when she first started it was think I think

642
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: it was like Sticky was her first track that like

643
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: really popped. I think it might have been on Insecure.

644
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: It was very R and B leaning, and then even

645
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 3: to where we are now has this little tinge of

646
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 3: folk to it and also like mainstream pop in a way.

647
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: And that's been really exciting to see how people that

648
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 3: I never thought would see her or reach her are

649
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: now excited and like at the forefront, begging and waiting

650
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: for her to shine. I think it's not about crossing

651
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 3: over in that way, but it has been so interesting

652
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 3: to see people who I never thought would be checking

653
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 3: for Raven Lenay. And I think that's a testament to

654
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: how she has been able to follow her intuition about

655
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: what music she creates and tell her story through it.

656
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: I mean, her most recent project is her most personal,

657
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: telling her story through love and loss. And I think

658
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: that that kind of intimacy that we were talking about earlier,

659
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 3: I think that is the thing that is helping keep

660
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 3: this door wide open for black women to continue to

661
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: spread their hands and spirit against different genres is because

662
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, what people are searching

663
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: for is for something that's real and that's connected to something,

664
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 3: and I think that's what's allowing people to tap into

665
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 3: other sources, Because yeah, you may be Reco Nasty and

666
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 3: you may need to like jump into this like rock

667
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: like super Screamo Vibe to like tell your story, but

668
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: then you might need to slot into like some hip

669
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: hop to tell that story. And that's all on the

670
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 3: same project and then like hyper pop and all of that.

671
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 3: So at the end of the day, it's about that authenticity.

672
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: And I think that I feel like authenticity maybe of like, oh,

673
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 3: they do this thing, they have the same notes of

674
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: the genre that I need to have in order for

675
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 3: it to be authentically pop, authentically this. But now it's

676
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: about the story. So I think it's opening that laye

677
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 3: up really well for women. And I think those two

678
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 3: raven Lene and Rico Nasty are definitely definitely ones that

679
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 3: I I'm always checking for.

680
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 4: I was willing to talk about Rico as well, because

681
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 4: I think her new album, especially like she's doing rock

682
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 4: music so well on this new album, and she always

683
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 4: has like you know, her first couple of projects that

684
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 4: like really blew her up are called sugar Trap. So

685
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 4: it was this really you know, poppy, saccharin like rappie thing,

686
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 4: but like this new album is like hard, like close

687
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 4: to metal, and I love that because like growing up,

688
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 4: I loved rock music like I love Paramore.

689
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 5: A lot of black women right love Paramore. I loved my.

690
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 4: Chemical Romance, all American rejects, like all these bands that

691
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 4: were primarily white people, And I love that when I'm

692
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 4: now in the mood to hear music like that, there

693
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 4: are so many different black women that I can put on.

694
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 5: I can put on Alameda, I can put on Rico Nassi,

695
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 5: I can put on Willow Willow Smith.

696
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 4: I think it's also incredible, and especially even like watching

697
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 4: her come from like a LENI just black women rock,

698
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 4: like from her mom, especially like having grown up in

699
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 4: white environments. It's so so nice to hear this type

700
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 4: of music that you love, but like see someone who

701
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 4: reminds you of you while you're listening to it, and

702
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 4: like watching it.

703
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: Let's stay with Wilot for a little while, because I

704
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: feel like her and artists like Chloe, like you talked

705
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: about before in Solange, have been very vocal about like

706
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: being very involved in the behind the scenes like creative

707
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: control of their projects. How important do you think it

708
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: is for black women to really be not just the

709
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: face of the music, but also involved in those behind

710
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: the scenes thingings.

711
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 4: I feel like it's one of the things that's so

712
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 4: impressive about like Beyonce, right like as a model is

713
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 4: it's like she's not just a pretty face, she's not

714
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 4: just a gorgeous dancer.

715
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 5: It's like she is arranging the vocal. She is with

716
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 5: the producer.

717
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 4: She's bringing this encyclopedic knowledge of black music history to

718
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 4: the booth, to the songwriter's table. I mean, you know,

719
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 4: I think that thinking about black women as producers, even

720
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 4: like Layla is like someone who's really interesting in that

721
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 4: right most Deaf's daughter, she's breaking out with her own

722
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 4: songs right now. She's definitely very young and like the

723
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 4: kids are tapped in with her, but she's very adamant that,

724
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 4: Like she's like, I'm a producer and there aren't a

725
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 4: lot of black women in the production space right now.

726
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 4: And so I think that every time we see people,

727
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 4: particularly black women, like staking their claim to that part

728
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 4: of the industry, it's like inspiring and just hopefully own

729
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 4: me opens more doors.

730
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 3: And it's like I think oftentimes, like I think about

731
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 3: this sometimes of fashion, but it's like sometimes I can't

732
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 3: have someone make the exact thing that's in my head,

733
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 3: that's so true to me, that's so delisa, And so

734
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: I think that's the thing about a lot of these artists.

735
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of people like Pink Pantherists, Griff and even

736
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 3: like Tiana Taylor and how she is expanding her definition

737
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 3: of being like a director and architect of style and

738
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: and presentation. It's like, we get to be the drivers

739
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: of our story and we get to not have to

740
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 3: relay it to someone else and hope that they can

741
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 3: translate it in the way that feels true to us.

742
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 3: It's like we have the reins now. And I think

743
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 3: before a lot of musical artists they were maybe fit

744
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: into other people's molds or muses for other people's expression,

745
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: or you'll see them do one thing and then twenty

746
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 3: years later they're doing something completely different because they finally

747
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: have the autonomy. And I think what is amazing about

748
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 3: seeing a lot of these younger artists take those matters

749
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: into their own hands, have their bedroom be their freedom

750
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 3: and their refuge, and use these machines that we have

751
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 3: here to help them tell their stories so they can

752
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 3: understand themselves a little bit more. I think it is

753
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 3: you said that brave. I love that it is so

754
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 3: brave to teach yourself something new, to fall in love

755
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 3: with things so much that you learn an entirely different lexicon,

756
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 3: to understand yourself and connect with people more. There's so

757
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: many women that I'm seeing or doing that now that

758
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: I don't think had the freedom to do that. They

759
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: weren't taken us seriously to do that before, and now

760
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 3: they are and that's what's cutting through, and that's how

761
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 3: they're connecting with us so strongly.

762
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 4: And one of the things that I'm seeing to that

763
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 4: point to Lisa that I love is like the rise

764
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 4: of women as DJs, right because I think that like

765
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 4: DJing is, especially in art forum, where it's like, even

766
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 4: if you're not making the music yourself, you're like, I

767
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 4: know that these songs together represent who I am or

768
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 4: how I want to feel, or what my community is like.

769
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 4: And I have this vision of what this space can

770
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 4: be based on the music that I'm going to play there.

771
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 4: And I don't think that there was ever a point

772
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 4: in my life where I've seen this many DJs. Like

773
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 4: it's getting more rare that I go to like a

774
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 4: party or a festival and there's not at least one

775
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 4: woman on the bill, and like so many of us

776
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 4: are like picking up controllers and teaching ourselves because we're

777
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 4: like no, like we have taste, we're innovative, right, We're

778
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:01,479
Speaker 4: on the ball.

779
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 5: We understand people.

780
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 4: I think that's another thing that makes women really good DJs,

781
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 4: is that, like we are empathetic and we understand people

782
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 4: around us, and we can like follow like the vibe

783
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 4: in a room, and that I think is also cool

784
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 4: because I think that is also listeners kind of responding

785
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 4: to artists by saying, like, your art means so much

786
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 4: to me that I want to make something from it myself.

787
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: I love that you said that. I love that.

788
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got an instant smile because I'm thinking about

789
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: like the DJs I see mostly on TikTok right where

790
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: they're spinning things, and I'm like, I would have never

791
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: thought to put that together with one. I'm not a DJ,

792
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: so of course I would not have, right, But I

793
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: do think like the women DJs, it's a whole different

794
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: vibe and it like it is very much like reading

795
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: the room and like intuitting.

796
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 2: What people would really be bou by via the next all.

797
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think black women in particular, you know, for

798
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 4: better or worse, Like we're grown up and made to

799
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 4: think about everybody and sometimes ourselves last, and that can

800
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 4: be like a really difficult place to be, you know,

801
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 4: we see that in our moms and our aunts, like

802
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 4: like the way that that can be a burden. But

803
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 4: I think that like that level of humanity and connection

804
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 4: and intuition, like you said, doctor Joy, like, I think

805
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 4: that those are really really beautiful skills to have.

806
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, So continuing this

807
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: like bravery conversation, I love that that has kind of

808
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: become a theme.

809
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 5: Right.

810
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,919
Speaker 1: We also see people like Janelle Monet kind of moving

811
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: into this space of ownership in terms of their own labels,

812
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 1: And what do you think that that means for like

813
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: the continuation of like freedom and the different choices that

814
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: artists are able to make, right, Like, we've heard so

815
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 1: many horror stories of artists having these like very oppressive deals,

816
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: and so it does feel like women are becoming more

817
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: label owners really unlock something different.

818
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts about that?

819
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 3: Manco Art, I want to let you take this because

820
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 3: I know, like your cover story with Janelle was so

821
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 3: beautiful and I really just want to hear from you.

822
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 4: I feel like we have that back connection, so I

823
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 4: want Yeah, I appreciate that, and it's bringing me back

824
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 4: to a moment.

825
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 5: Oh, I think, were you.

826
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 4: Interviewing me for like a in house meeting at Rolling

827
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 4: Stone about the cover and so de Lisa and I

828
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 4: were coworkers, and it just made me feel so validated,

829
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 4: like the questions that she had, and even beforehand, I

830
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 4: think she sent me a message and was just like yo,

831
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 4: like this story meant so much to me. The story

832
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 4: moved me a lot, and it was a really hard

833
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 4: story to write because there's so much to Jenne Monet,

834
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 4: Like not only is she like a Grammy winning artist,

835
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 4: not only are her albums expansive and like films in

836
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 4: and of themselves, sometimes they are films like Dirty Computer,

837
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 4: But she is an incredible actress, right and like she

838
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 4: at a very very high level, and similar to Beyonce too,

839
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 4: also has this like encyclopedic knowledge of like music and culture.

840
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 4: And so it was like a big, like kind of

841
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 4: scary task to try to capture this person in a

842
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 4: few thousand words. And you know, they were so kind

843
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 4: as to like let me into their space, meet their

844
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 4: very close friends have a game night with them.

845
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 5: At one point Janelle.

846
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 4: Had to move the group like it was just like

847
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 4: speaking of bravery, and they were very nervous, you know,

848
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 4: Janelle uses side pronouns like they were very very nervous

849
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 4: about it, and they had to like run into the

850
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 4: bathroom and kind of hype themselves up before they could

851
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 4: come out and do it. And I think that all

852
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 4: of that, you know, Janelle is into, being executive, is

853
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 4: really challenging because one, you don't want to recreate those

854
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 4: terrible deals, You don't want to recreate those types of

855
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 4: environments or those structures that have hurt a limited artists.

856
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 4: But you also do have to be the person at

857
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 4: the head of the table making decisions, sometimes making hard decisions,

858
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 4: like Janelle when they were telling me their schedule, very

859
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 4: very precise, the time that's set aside for wonderland stuff,

860
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 4: the time that's set aside for them to heal their

861
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 4: inner child by drawing or painting or dancing, just doing

862
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 4: some type of art that isn't about making money or

863
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 4: like pushing the business forward, but just they called it

864
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 4: fertilizing themselves. And so I think that on top of

865
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 4: being a creative putting the executive work. It's a big ask.

866
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 4: I think that there is a lot of room for

867
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 4: error in that space as well. But I think more

868
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 4: and more artists are having experiences and they're like, I

869
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 4: can make this better for the next person, and that's

870
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 4: really cool to see. And then I think on the

871
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 4: flip side, you have artists. I mean, Meghan is starting

872
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 4: I think a label and a production company, but first

873
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 4: she just got her masters, you know, like Megan is

874
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 4: now an independent artist, which is amazing, and she's distributing

875
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 4: through one of the majors, but she owns all of that.

876
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 5: She owns the rights to her music.

877
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 4: And I think that's another pathway where it's like maybe

878
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 4: I'm not like the big boss yet, but I'm the

879
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 4: boss of myself. And I think that that's also really important.

880
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: I love that.

881
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: Thanks Lisa, I'm.

882
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 3: Gonna give it to you what she did with that

883
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 3: album and what you were able to give us. You

884
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 3: open the door for us, like get the window. We

885
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 3: were right there, we were right there with you. We're

886
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 3: with them, especially for that album, and how I think

887
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 3: it resonated with black people was really really special. And

888
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 3: I think having your words, as you know, for journalism.

889
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: It's like the record keeping.

890
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 3: It's like having yours is like the click you know

891
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: that we get to snapshot that I think is going

892
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 3: to be one of those time capsule moments.

893
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, truly shout outs to you for that.

894
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 5: Thank you.

895
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: So when you think about the future of black women's music,

896
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: are black women in music? What is something that you

897
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: really would like to see more of?

898
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 3: What I think is so beautiful about right now is

899
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 3: like we're seeing a lot of like people searching for

900
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: the answers through music, and I'm excited for just like

901
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 3: you know, the scene and the Whiz where all of

902
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 3: the like the they like take it off and it's

903
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 3: like like the brand new day. That's what I'm excited for.

904
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 3: I'm excited for, Like we did all the shedding, we did,

905
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: all the work, we did all the unearthing, and now

906
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: we just get to like dance like what k Trenada

907
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 3: does and how all his music videos feel like. I

908
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 3: want that to be extended to every Black women in

909
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 3: music where they can just be their most fun, sensual,

910
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 3: hype sexy selves and we get to see more and

911
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 3: more and more of that. I think we were already

912
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 3: seeing that and that's what I want. Ten times, I

913
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: could never get enough of us feeling good in our

914
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: bodies and being free to express that we already have it.

915
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 3: It's definitely not something that we're lacking. I don't really

916
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 3: think there's anything that we are lacking. But if I

917
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 3: could say something that I want more of, it is

918
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 3: that it is exhilaration, is celebration, is joy. I'm calling

919
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 3: that forth in my life. So I need the music

920
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: to boop and to keep going with that and to

921
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 3: continue to soundtrack this next journey and phase of life.

922
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, I am thinking about the conversation that we were

923
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 4: having about black women like Solange, like Leyla, like Beyonce

924
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 4: that are like producers and have this also like cause

925
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 4: it's like the technical ability, right, Like the technical ability

926
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 4: that it takes to.

927
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 5: Make music that is so care free, to make music.

928
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 4: That like feels the way that you want other people

929
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 4: to feel like. I'm really interested in having more conversations

930
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 4: about that highly specialized skill that a lot of black

931
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 4: women possess and seeing more black women earning credit as producers,

932
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 4: not just like as far as like their discography is

933
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 4: being built out, but like being talked about, not just

934
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 4: as artists and singers or icons even, but like as

935
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 4: producers and like really technically able people.

936
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 5: I'm really excited for that.

937
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 4: I'm just like, I feel like black women, like we

938
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 4: balance like this joy and the seriousness, right, and I

939
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 4: would love to see that, Like I would love to

940
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 4: see black women like really really taken even more seriously

941
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 4: as artisans.

942
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So, Michael bur what is your official anthem for

943
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 1: summer twenty twenty five?

944
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 4: Okay, honestly, I'm so glad I get to talk about

945
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 4: this because it's a song that a friend made that

946
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 4: I don't think he's released yet. But he's a rapper.

947
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 4: His name is crash Press. As a rapper, he was

948
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 4: a music journalist, so I think it's really cool that

949
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 4: he transition and from someone who, like, as an artist,

950
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 4: was telling other artist stories to like focusing on their

951
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 4: own craft. But he put a clip of this song

952
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 4: and de Lisa, I think you would love it. He

953
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 4: put a clip of the song on his Instagram story

954
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 4: last week and it kind of reminded me of Cha

955
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 4: Cha by Drama.

956
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 5: You remember that summer when Cha Cha came out?

957
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 4: Ooh, that was like summer twenty fourteen fifteen, Like it

958
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 4: has that joy. The song is called Samba, so it

959
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,479
Speaker 4: has like that kind of like dance feel, but he's

960
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 4: rapping really really well over it, and it's like, that's

961
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 4: what I want my summer to feel like. I want

962
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 4: my summer to feel like dance and fun. And also

963
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 4: that skill that ability like impressed me well. After I

964
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 4: DMed him on Instagram and I was like, this song

965
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 4: is incredible. He sent me the whole thing and I

966
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 4: was like, put it out because I have to hear

967
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 4: this everywhere I go this summer.

968
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: Love it.

969
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: Okay to Lisa, what about you with your summer twenty

970
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:46,959
Speaker 1: twenty five A at them?

971
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: Make sure you send that to me.

972
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 5: Yes, I'll introduce y'all. Actually y'all should know each other.

973
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 2: Let's planning link.

974
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 3: And so hard to answer that question because I'm constantly

975
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 3: listening to so many different genres that like, my brain

976
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 3: is going blank. But the one thing that I think

977
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 3: that I like sometimes I wake up in the morning

978
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 3: is Rachel Chinneriery dumb bitch juice. That's just like being

979
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: stuck in my head. And I think her whole project

980
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 3: really brings me back to and like a younger me

981
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 3: that was confused but still like fun, and I think

982
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 3: I'm kind of there now, like I still feel like

983
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 3: in that kind of awkwardness of being in my young twenties,

984
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 3: even though I'm fully turning thirty this year. That's why

985
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 3: I'm kind of like going back to these bibles of

986
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 3: this time in your young twenties. So dumb Bitch Juice

987
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 3: Rachel Chinnerery is kind of the one that's that'll be

988
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 3: played in every part day. Beach Day reminds me just

989
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 3: like have fun and like.

990
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 2: Just be free.

991
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 3: And I think that's the one that keeps coming back

992
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 3: from me as the sun is coming out finally in.

993
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: New York exactly exactly.

994
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: Okay, So at least another question for you, what is

995
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: your go to song when you need a mood boost

996
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: go to song?

997
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: So it is from the.

998
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 3: Oh, it is Patti LaBelle, and it is Turn It

999
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: Up from Beverly Hills.

1000
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 2: Cop.

1001
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 3: Yes, when I tell you, it just like does something

1002
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 3: and I feel so free and it's like it's just

1003
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 3: so like it's so eighties. It's so eighties and free

1004
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 3: and fun. And her voice texture is just one of

1005
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 3: my favorites. So anytime I'm like down, I just put

1006
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: that on and I just act like I'm back in

1007
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 3: the day, like in a movie with my girls out.

1008
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's really real. Honestly, got Trueth, that's the song.

1009
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: I love it.

1010
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 4: What about You Moncopher, I'm Coming Out by Diana Roy

1011
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 4: And so my first introduction to that song was a

1012
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 4: kid write the momentey More Problem sample, So I didn't

1013
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 4: even know this whole song until I was much older.

1014
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 4: But I was driving down Bakehead the other day and

1015
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 4: I was playing this song out of my car windows

1016
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 4: because I just really needed a boost.

1017
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 5: It was another day where the sun was finally coming out.

1018
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 5: I was on my way somewhere. I just wanted to

1019
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 5: feel good.

1020
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 4: And I turned around and me and this black woman

1021
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 4: driving next to me were both singing along to the

1022
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 4: song that I was playing out of the car, and

1023
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 4: it felt so good, and we were just like laughing

1024
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 4: with each other, and there was a little bit of

1025
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 4: while we were driving, kind of driving the same pace,

1026
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 4: and I just liked how bright and confident and renewed

1027
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 4: that song makes me feel.

1028
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: I love this this throwback that we're having for these

1029
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: move boosting songs, and I feel like that'll call some

1030
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: people to go digging into this catalogs and maybe it's

1031
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: for some new gyms than they had not seen.

1032
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: So thank y'all for it.

1033
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: So this has been so much fun. I have loved

1034
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: talking with both of you. Delis to let us know

1035
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 1: where we can stay connected with you, any websites or

1036
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: social media challenge you to she here.

1037
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 3: I am on Instagram. I am not really on Twitter,

1038
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 3: but I do have one of those dealsa Marie underscore.

1039
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 3: You can also check out my website that's www dot

1040
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 3: Dealsashannon dot com. And this has been so great, Like truly,

1041
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 3: I think the sun came out to bring this conversation.

1042
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 3: So I'm very thankful today.

1043
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for Then what about you, Makapear, I

1044
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 4: am at Monkapar m A n K A p r

1045
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 4: R on everything so Instagram. I am on Twitter still unfortunately,

1046
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 4: and I'm building TikTok. I'm really interested in taking the

1047
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 4: work that I'm doing as a journalist and like translating

1048
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 4: it there, so please follow me there and like go

1049
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 4: on this journey with me. And then my website is

1050
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 4: Mancaper dot com as.

1051
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: Well, beautiful be sure to include all of those in

1052
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 1: our show notes. Thank y'all for spending some time with

1053
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: me today. I appreciate it.

1054
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 5: Thanks for having us cool.

1055
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1056
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that Lisa and mankapra me for today's episode,

1057
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as

1058
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: I did to learn more about them and the things

1059
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: we discussed today. Be sure to visit the show notes

1060
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session four one seven,

1061
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls right

1062
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: now and tell them to check out the episode. Did

1063
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: you know that you can leave us a voicemail with

1064
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: your questions and suggestions for the podcast. If you have

1065
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 1: movies or books you like us to review, or even

1066
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: have thoughts about topics you like us to discuss, drop

1067
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 1: us a voice memo at memo dot fm slash Therapy

1068
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind.

1069
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: We just might cover it on the podcast. If you're

1070
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist

1071
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory, and

1072
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for

1073
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: Black Girls or join us over in our Patreon community

1074
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com for exclusive updates,

1075
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: behind the scenes content, and more. We can't wait to

1076
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: see you inside. This episode was produced by at least Ellens,

1077
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: Indichubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.

1078
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.

1079
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

1080
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care.

1081
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 4: What's