WEBVTT - The Girlfriends S2/E2: Mindy Goes Undercover 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:06.880 Novel. 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.600 Hey listener, In this episode, we'll be talking about acts 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.160 of violence and murder, as well as the loss of 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.400 a child. After the second break, there's one particular scene 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:24.520 of extremely intense emotional distress which you may find hard 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.840 to listen to, but at the same time we get 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.000 to see doctor Mindy Shapiro reconnect with her New York roots. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:33.519 If you feel. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.920 Impacted by any of the themes while listening, I encourage 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.920 you to check out our charity partner, DNA DOE Project. 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.560 They work with law enforcement to identify Jane and John does. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.760 They use genetic genealogy in the hopes of reuniting the 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:53.080 bodies of unidentified people with their families. You can find 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:57.880 them at DNADO project dot org. And you guessed it. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.800 You're probably going to hear a few swears too, so 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:06.320 sue me. I've got a dirty mouth. Before we get started. 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.200 There's something doctor Mindy Shapiro, my good friend and our 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.840 lead investigator, would like to be formally struck from the record. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.039 At one point in season one, when she was deep 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.280 into her obsession with Gail's case, I described her in 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.800 a way that she was well, not real happy with. 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.360 A dog with the bone not. 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:33.959 I'm still angry about the dog with her bone, and 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:35.120 I'm not going to get over it. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:35.959 Why would you. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.160 Take offense for a dog with the bone. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.240 It just gives me the image of this little white 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.560 terrier biting the ankle of some pants leg of some 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:46.759 person who's. 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.720 Just trying to kick me off. That's why. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.760 So, Mindy, let me say this, hand on heart. I 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.440 apologize for referring to you this way, but I think 0:01:58.480 --> 0:01:59.520 you would agree. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:03.080 Though, that you were a little obsessive. And don't get 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:04.920 me wrong, that's what we love about you. 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:07.960 It's that very quality that makes you such a great 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:13.079 amateur detective. Instead, I'll just describe you as you truly are, 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:20.520 my unsquashable, tenacious, and relentless friend, Mindy fucking Shapiro. Doctor, 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:27.040 Mindy fucking Shapiro, doctor Detective, Mindy fucking Shapiro. I know 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:31.120 there's no mystery, medical or otherwise that she can't solve. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.040 I like a puzzle about the puzzle. 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:35.399 I make puzzles. 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:36.320 Wait, they don't. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:41.800 Said, but this thirty five year mystery of our lost 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:46.320 sister's identity. It's her biggest and most important puzzle yet. 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.200 If she's gonna bust this case wide open, like I 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.240 know she can. This New York broad is gonna need 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.760 to kick down doors and find the answers no one 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:00.639 else could. Okay, Okay, I'm sorry that was the last 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:01.200 dog joke. 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:02.160 I promise. 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.400 I'm Carol Fisher and from the teams at Novel and 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.960 iHeart Podcasts. You're listening to The girlfriends Our Lost Sister, 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:25.680 Episode two, Mindy Goes Undercover. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:49.120 Got you. 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:56.480 T t to speak with the librarian. We're helping you 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:57.320 get some research. 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.600 Great a welcome, thank you, thank you. 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.880 When I first met Mindy in Las Vegas thirty something 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.760 years ago, she'd only just moved from the East Coast, 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:12.160 and you could tell. I mean, she was fast talking, 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.479 fast walking, and she got shit done. And with every 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.359 minute we spend in New York investigating the case of 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.279 our lost sister, I can see that old East Coast 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:26.000 attitude coming back. I mean I literally witnessed her jumping 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.520 at turnstile on the subway. 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:29.520 For crying out loud. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.599 This woman is sixty seven years of age. But who 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:38.240 am I to question our chief investigator. First up on 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.000 Mindy's tour of NYC, her and producer Anna Head to 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:43.839 the New York Public library. 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:50.200 It's a very ostentatious library. They didn't need to make it. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.520 This prect you know, they renovated it a while ago. 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.200 Libraries are often described as one of the last bastions 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.320 of democracy. They don't or if you have money or 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.239 what your background is, you can go there and access 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.440 the same information as anyone else who comes looking for it. 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:10.960 So it feels like a good place to start our 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:16.880 investigation to see what's already out there. Newspaper articles about 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.440 the torso washing up on Staten Island in nineteen eighty nine. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:22.960 Any killers who are in the news at the time 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:28.640 missing person notices that kind of thing. Because something we 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.280 discovered in season one when we first attempted to identify 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:37.320 this Jane Doe, is that accessing official information about missing 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:42.200 or unidentified people is, to put it mildly, no easy task. 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.720 Hopefully you won't have experienced the pain of a loved 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.000 one vanishing without a trace, but for those who have, 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.560 who spend their lives searching through a labyrinth of police, 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.800 medical examiners, media and other systems, it's often near impossible 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.839 to find any answers. You'd probably think that our team 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.039 would have better luck with our resources After all, we've 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:10.360 got me a relentlessly nosy person, Mindy the brain box 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:15.200 doctor turned sleuth, Elaine Katz, the accomplished family lawyer, and 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.920 my producer turned adopted daughter Anna who just so happens 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:23.919 to be an investigative journalist. Plus there's multiple people working 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.839 full time behind the scenes who you haven't even met. 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.359 So if we're struggling to get answers, what kind of 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.800 chance to everyday people have when a loved one goes missing, 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.559 maybe this could explain why our Jane Do has gone 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:45.159 unidentified for thirty five years. Mindy waste no time getting 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:46.599 the librarian's attention. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.360 Okay, are you ready for the query of the day? 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.320 Right, I'm not sure? You better sit down. 0:06:55.360 --> 0:07:02.320 I am interested in fundamentally two things. Is a torso 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.960 watched upon the shores of Staten Island on May twenty first, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.880 nineteen eighty nine, and I'd like all information that I 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:12.960 can find about that torso. 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.800 The next thing is. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:21.760 I would like any and all information on the psychopathology 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.000 of pillers that dismember their victims. 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.840 The librarians on the other side of the desk shoot 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.360 a raised eyebrow in Mindy's direction. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.520 Right, you know, I look like clearly someone who was investigating. 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:36.960 Do I look like all murders in the building? 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.640 Do I have that vague resemblance to Suna, no miss thanks, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:43.120 that's familia. 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.760 But unfortunately, not only does Mindy struggle to get a 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:52.760 compliment from these librarians, they also can't find any relevant information. 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.640 In fact, she and Anna aren't making much progress in 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:02.240 Manhattan at all. Maybe we're finding it hard because what 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:06.160 we really want, what we need is more information from 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.520 the time when the torso was discovered on Staten Island. 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.280 We should be able to get that kind of stuff 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.680 from the original police reports, something we're not going to 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:17.920 find in the library. 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:20.720 So we decide, fuck it. 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.440 Why don't we just turn up at Staten Island Police 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:27.000 Department and ask for the reports ourselves? 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.640 Well, right under the sign twenty more Yeah. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.240 The one hundred and twenty first Precinct in Staten Island 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.400 is a big concrete building with a long line of 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:41.120 steps leading up to the entrance. 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:42.880 It's intimidating. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.400 We stagger up the stairs and we go through the 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.480 tall glass doors and immediately we look out of place. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:52.840 What's happening at. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:55.120 Typical? 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.160 Mindy charges ahead while I hide behind producer Anna, who's 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.520 concealed her microphone and a pair of fluffy gloves. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.160 It's all very covert. 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.280 When we get to the front desk, we're greeted by 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:13.240 this really sweet Officer's. 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.839 Interested in if I can get some old record it's 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:15.760 from nineteen eighty nine. 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.840 What kind of records? 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:22.320 At first, understandably he doesn't know what to make of 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.360 this strange, multi generational group of women digging into a 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:27.040 cold case. 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.360 He seems pretty suspicious. 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.880 Luckily, we've got Mindy's New York charm to win him over. 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.920 And could you just jimmy one huge phavor because I 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.920 grew up in New York. Could you say perpetrator for me? 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.920 Perpetrator. 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.120 But we're here on business, so we asked the officer 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.360 to check the records for anything connected to the Torso. 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.160 When you find some baits here, let's say how far. 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:51.440 We go from? 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.719 But it doesn't go very far. When he types our 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.680 case number into his it draws a blank. The case 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:06.000 is too old and the files have likely not been digitized. 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.560 But the suite officer, he does give us something. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:12.560 Let me search for a cold case health album. 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.280 Okay, that would be great. 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.120 A phone number that we can call for information on 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:19.080 cold cases. 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.280 You know, hopefully they'll be able to help you navigate 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:23.080 through this journey. 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:24.680 Do you think that records? 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.640 So it's looking like we won't quite get what we 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.320 came for, but we're not going to be leaving empty 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.520 handed either. We've got a brand new cold case number 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:40.000 to call and a new friend. It's dat n Island pd' from. 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.840 I'm from England's okay, not live England. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.240 I'll never visited, but I always wanted as a teenager, 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:46.640 but then I grew up. 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.120 Now I'm in my forties, I'm a grandfather. 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:54.400 Wow, you're a young Congratulations muscle us. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.920 It seems we've garnered all the information we can and 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.360 Mindy's also got her eye on an iconic Staten Island 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.640 pizza joint for lunch. So, with stomachs rumbling, we exchange 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.040 goodbyes with our new friend and make our. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.320 Way out of the police station. 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:14.880 We got a number that we haven't had with goal, 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:16.560 so tomorrow. 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:16.760 We're gonna call. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:18.880 What do you mean we're calling in the car? 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:20.280 All right? 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:24.920 We jump in a taxi and have barely got our 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.600 seatbelts on before Mindy starts dialing. We're hoping to find 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.640 out if our Jane Doe is connected to a registered 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.920 cold case, and if there's any information that can help 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.599 us continue the story beyond nineteen ninety eight, which is 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.640 when Elaine Kats's files end. 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:43.400 All right, we're calling. 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.640 Thank you for calling the New York City Police Department. 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.320 The party you are trying to reach is unavailable at 0:11:58.320 --> 0:11:58.800 this time. 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:03.920 Please goal again, goodbye. 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:10.440 Of course not that would be too easy. We keep trying, though, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.000 But when we eventually get through, it turns out that 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.000 sweet officer point portrayer, he gave us the wrong number. 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:23.360 I mean, can we catch a goddamn break? We still 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:29.040 don't give up. Mindy is soldiering on, unperturbed. Through some digging, 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.720 she manages to find the correct number. But dear listener, 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:34.400 don't hold your breath. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:38.080 Or more ontion. 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:43.959 Hi, my name is Mindy Shapiro, and I am calling 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:48.760 about a cold case from nineteen eighty nine. 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:53.280 If you're exasperated just listening to this, imagine how we feel. 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.839 It's like we're constantly hitting a wall, being sent around 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:02.800 in circles from one agency to another. Maybe we're out 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.360 of our depth here, even with Mindy on the case. 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:07.560 Maybe we need some advice. 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.440 From someone who's actually solved a cold case, and not 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.320 just any cold case, but one that's very close to 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:49.439 our hearts, the murder of gailcats. 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:48.400 Hi. Wo you good, thank you. 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.200 Anna just arrived at the office of Dan Bibb. He's 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:52.880 a DA. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.679 Prosecutor who put my ex Bob Bernbaum away for twenty 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:00.400 to life. He's also the guy who helped prove instant 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.680 for all that our Jane Do's torso did not belong 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.960 to Gail Katz. He's eager to know the latest on 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:07.960 our investigation. 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:09.280 So what's been going on? 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.840 So we're trying to identify this torso, which is maybe 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.000 a fool's. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:21.480 Errand I don't think it is. I remember we notified 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.160 the precinct or whoever was in charge, that this is 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:28.720 now an open case again because it's not Gail Katz. 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.280 What happened to the investigation after that? I have no idea. 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.280 You know, in ninety eight, did missing persons really want 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.880 to deal with a nineteen eighty nine torso that washed up? 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.680 I don't know. I mean, could it have fallen through 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:50.520 the cracks? Yes? How is it dealing with the m's office. 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.160 Dan is talking about the Medical Examiner's office. 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.800 You already know that Mindy has put. 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.520 In a freedom of information request to them, so is 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.800 Gail's sister Elaine, and they're not the only ones. 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:05.320 All the way back. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.600 In the first series of The Girlfriends, Madeline parr Our, 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.640 assistant producer and research Queen, reached out asking for any 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.080 documents relating to the Torso. 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.400 Fifth of December twenty twenty two. Hither, I'm a journalist 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.600 from the UK and I'm wondering if you might be 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:24.920 able to help me find out some information about a 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.920 body that was discovered in nineteen eight. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.920 We get a response saying they're going to look into 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.080 it for us, which is great news, and then a 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.200 few weeks go by we haven't heard anything, so we 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:37.280 decide to check in. 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.400 Fourth of January twenty twenty three. Hi, I hope you've 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.960 had a lovely holidays and a happy new Year. I'm 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.359 just wondering if you've got anywhere with tracking down those records. 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.720 Months go by, still nothing. Eventually we just get plane 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:54.080 pissed off. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:16:00.600 Ninth of January twenty twenty four, did happy New Year again? 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.360 I'm writing to let you know that it has now 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.320 been over a year since My initial request was sent 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.040 to you on the fifth of December twenty twenty two, 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.200 and we are yet to receive any progress a tool 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:13.120 on these records. 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:14.760 Nothing's worked. 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.440 We've always been met with a wall of silence, and 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.760 to be honest, we're starting to take it pretty personally. 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.800 I mean, why wouldn't they just tell you you could 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.200 appeal to their foil officer and then you could chew. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.080 But why wouldn't they just tell you that instead of 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:35.120 stringing and off for a year. 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.080 We don't want to get to the point of suing 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.680 the Medical Examiner's office. We just want them to respond 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.360 to us. We want to know what information they have 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.640 on the Torso after nineteen ninety eight, which is a 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.080 year she was exzumed from Gail Catt's grave. We want 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.000 to know where she went and crucially, if she was 0:16:54.120 --> 0:17:00.200 ever identified. Our mission isn't about pointing the finger or 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.120 assigning blame. What we want to do is fill in 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.040 the gaps of our lost sister's journey, to find out 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.600 her name, to give her back her own story, not 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.800 just make her a footnote in Gail Kata's case. And 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.840 above all, we hope that in uncovering this mystery. We 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.840 can bring closure to a lane and possibly to our 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:26.400 Jane Doe's family, wherever they may be. But maybe it's 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:32.600 time for a more direct approach. Next up, doctor Detective 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.400 Mindy Shapiro heads to the Medical Examiner's office to get 0:17:36.480 --> 0:18:05.399 some goddamn answers. 0:17:55.520 --> 0:18:10.680 At the age of sixteen, I was busy swooning over boys. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.560 In fact, that was the first year I fell in love, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:19.000 the first and a long run of terrible boyfriends. But Mindy, well, 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.879 she was far too ambitious to be distracted by something 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.320 as silly as boys. 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:27.720 At sixteen, she. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.240 Was busy lining herself up to get into a good 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.520 medical college, which meant internships. And where, you might ask, 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.480 did she intern in the summer of nineteen seventy three, 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.600 the Manhattan Medical Examiner's Office. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:43.920 You just can't make this shit up. 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.720 I would get on the bus from my parents' apartment 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:54.000 to the Medical Examiner's office, and I'd watched them do autopsies. 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.840 And then one week I worked in the lab with 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:01.679 the stomach contents. One week I worked in the bones, 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.200 and it was like Wayne Heart. 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:07.919 Does something delivers. 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.080 And now, about fifty years later, Mindy's back at her 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.720 old office, she wants to find out where our Jane 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:29.879 Doe went after she was exhumed from Gail Kata's grave. 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.119 Hi, it's tact to Shapiro, and I'd like to speak 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.640 with the deputy medical Examiner. 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:44.720 Oh, thank you. 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:48.320 To get us in the door. 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.560 And because we're getting kind of desperate here, we've decided 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.080 to act like Mindy is simply stopping by to see 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:55.119 an old colleague. 0:19:55.640 --> 0:20:02.000 I worked here a billion years ago, and the entries good. 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:03.800 Never change. 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.280 Mindy's asking to meet with the deputy medical Examiner, not 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.399 the chief. We decided that be too suspicious, and it 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.639 seems to be working. The receptionist gets on the phone 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:16.879 and says that the deputy is in a meeting but 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:18.840 will be free in just thirty minutes. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:27.360 Oh well wait, we've been waiting for over a year already, 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:31.840 so what's another thirty minutes. 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:33.560 But it's nerve wracking. 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.720 For the first time, we're coming face to face with 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.120 the people who've been avoiding us for so long. And 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.639 it's not just that so much has happened under this roof. 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.000 It was in this very same building where Elaine was 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.240 first told that the torso was not her sister Gail 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:54.040 after all, it's a lot for Mindy to take in. 0:20:55.600 --> 0:21:05.600 Yeah, yeah, I'm just persons and processing in anticipating. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.760 Then the strange silence is punctured by a woman a 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.440 little waist down the hall, screaming. 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:21.800 Piece somebody, identify somebody. She has just identified the body 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.800 of her son. Oh. 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:36.000 After a tense minute, the whales draw closer. The woman 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.960 with someone we assumed to be her husband, burst into 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.560 the lobby. We're not going to play any tape of her, 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:46.080 out of respect for such an intimate moment. But all 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.919 I can say is it's the rawest expression of grief 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:54.959 that you can possibly imagine. This experience is one that 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.080 no mother, including this one, should ever have. 0:21:58.080 --> 0:21:58.680 To go through. 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.000 And yet here's she is, in the lobby of an 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.679 office building on what should be a normal Wednesday afternoon, 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:11.920 screaming into the void. That's not my son. My son 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:16.200 had a home, my son had a family. He told 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:26.199 me he was safe. Anna, Mindy and the security guards 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.840 are all sitting in silence, trying not to intrude on 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.760 the woman's grief or make her feel self conscious, but 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.399 they also feel this pull to just jump up and 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:44.240 give her a hug. What do you do when face 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:48.240 was something so unimaginably awful, how do you even begin 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:52.800 to help? Before they can try a different tac the 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.240 woman and her husband leave, her cries spilling out into 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:57.840 the faceless Manhattan street. 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:08.240 And that's why we're doing this. It's horrible. 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:09.080 It's horrible. 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:21.720 You know, it's hard enough for me watching you with 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:23.440 like your Facebook. 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.520 But this is all normal for you. But it's not normal, 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:37.680 you know it. Yes, it is. It is very very normal. 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:45.920 And they are experiences that you hope you never have, 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.119 or if you have them, you only want them once 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:52.119 and then you don't. 0:23:51.880 --> 0:24:00.399 Talk about them. And what makes them tell is that 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:01.080 we don't. 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:04.960 They're just not discussed. 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:17.800 Yeah, as much as that was a tough thing to 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:20.639 bear witness to, it just brings it all home. 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:22.880 Our Jane Doe. 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.400 Get of a mother out there who hasn't even been 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:28.879 gifted the opportunity as brutal as it is to know 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:32.760 the truth about what happened to her daughter, bereft of 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:36.280 the opportunity to wail and scream in public, to show 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:38.480 the depths of her pain to the world and make 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:58.639 them look. Five minutes pass and the deputy medical examiner 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:02.560 walks out of some heavy double doors. Anna and Mindy 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:04.800 had rehearsed what they were going to say to her, 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:08.560 but the tones changed. Now they're more desperate for answers 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:10.880 than ever, so they're pleading with her. 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:17.240 I'm a physician, I retired, and I'm here on actually 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:18.679 an act. 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:21.760 Of mercy for a friend of mine who has. 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.240 Had a remote tragedy. 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:26.520 Nineteen eighty nine, and I'm trying. 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:29.520 To get some closure the case for her. 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:34.760 Basically in nineteen eighty five, Mindy runs through the whole 0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:38.240 complicated story once again, and at first it seemed like 0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:40.600 we might finally be getting some answers. 0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:44.399 You have like case number yes, yes, the Emmy case 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:48.120 numbers eighty nine, five, six three. 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:50.200 Whereas yeah, think it's. 0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:56.440 The oh, okay, we have someone like our anthropologists probably 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:58.679 be able to I'm running. 0:25:58.400 --> 0:25:59.400 At three o'clock. 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:03.000 If you want to leave your contact information with me. Otherwise, 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:04.439 I mean we'll be out of a meeting probably at 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:05.160 like four o'clock. 0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:07.920 I can't promise anything's going to happen if you do. Wait. 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:11.200 Mindy and Anna sit back down to wait again. 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:14.639