Speaker 1: Novel.
Speaker 2: Hey listener, In this episode, we'll be talking about acts
Speaker 2: of violence and murder, as well as the loss of
Speaker 2: a child. After the second break, there's one particular scene
Speaker 2: of extremely intense emotional distress which you may find hard
Speaker 2: to listen to, but at the same time we get
Speaker 2: to see doctor Mindy Shapiro reconnect with her New York roots.
Speaker 3: If you feel.
Speaker 2: Impacted by any of the themes while listening, I encourage
Speaker 2: you to check out our charity partner, DNA DOE Project.
Speaker 2: They work with law enforcement to identify Jane and John does.
Speaker 2: They use genetic genealogy in the hopes of reuniting the
Speaker 2: bodies of unidentified people with their families. You can find
Speaker 2: them at DNADO project dot org. And you guessed it.
Speaker 2: You're probably going to hear a few swears too, so
Speaker 2: sue me. I've got a dirty mouth. Before we get started.
Speaker 2: There's something doctor Mindy Shapiro, my good friend and our
Speaker 2: lead investigator, would like to be formally struck from the record.
Speaker 2: At one point in season one, when she was deep
Speaker 2: into her obsession with Gail's case, I described her in
Speaker 2: a way that she was well, not real happy with.
Speaker 1: A dog with the bone not.
Speaker 4: I'm still angry about the dog with her bone, and
Speaker 4: I'm not going to get over it.
Speaker 5: Why would you.
Speaker 1: Take offense for a dog with the bone.
Speaker 4: It just gives me the image of this little white
Speaker 4: terrier biting the ankle of some pants leg of some
Speaker 4: person who's.
Speaker 3: Just trying to kick me off. That's why.
Speaker 2: So, Mindy, let me say this, hand on heart. I
Speaker 2: apologize for referring to you this way, but I think
Speaker 2: you would agree.
Speaker 3: Though, that you were a little obsessive. And don't get
Speaker 3: me wrong, that's what we love about you.
Speaker 2: It's that very quality that makes you such a great
Speaker 2: amateur detective. Instead, I'll just describe you as you truly are,
Speaker 2: my unsquashable, tenacious, and relentless friend, Mindy fucking Shapiro. Doctor,
Speaker 2: Mindy fucking Shapiro, doctor Detective, Mindy fucking Shapiro. I know
Speaker 2: there's no mystery, medical or otherwise that she can't solve.
Speaker 5: I like a puzzle about the puzzle.
Speaker 3: I make puzzles.
Speaker 6: Wait, they don't.
Speaker 2: Said, but this thirty five year mystery of our lost
Speaker 2: sister's identity. It's her biggest and most important puzzle yet.
Speaker 2: If she's gonna bust this case wide open, like I
Speaker 2: know she can. This New York broad is gonna need
Speaker 2: to kick down doors and find the answers no one
Speaker 2: else could. Okay, Okay, I'm sorry that was the last
Speaker 2: dog joke.
Speaker 3: I promise.
Speaker 2: I'm Carol Fisher and from the teams at Novel and
Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. You're listening to The girlfriends Our Lost Sister,
Speaker 2: Episode two, Mindy Goes Undercover.
Speaker 1: Got you.
Speaker 3: T t to speak with the librarian. We're helping you
Speaker 3: get some research.
Speaker 6: Great a welcome, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: When I first met Mindy in Las Vegas thirty something
Speaker 2: years ago, she'd only just moved from the East Coast,
Speaker 2: and you could tell. I mean, she was fast talking,
Speaker 2: fast walking, and she got shit done. And with every
Speaker 2: minute we spend in New York investigating the case of
Speaker 2: our lost sister, I can see that old East Coast
Speaker 2: attitude coming back. I mean I literally witnessed her jumping
Speaker 2: at turnstile on the subway.
Speaker 3: For crying out loud.
Speaker 2: This woman is sixty seven years of age. But who
Speaker 2: am I to question our chief investigator. First up on
Speaker 2: Mindy's tour of NYC, her and producer Anna Head to
Speaker 2: the New York Public library.
Speaker 1: It's a very ostentatious library. They didn't need to make it.
Speaker 4: This prect you know, they renovated it a while ago.
Speaker 2: Libraries are often described as one of the last bastions
Speaker 2: of democracy. They don't or if you have money or
Speaker 2: what your background is, you can go there and access
Speaker 2: the same information as anyone else who comes looking for it.
Speaker 2: So it feels like a good place to start our
Speaker 2: investigation to see what's already out there. Newspaper articles about
Speaker 2: the torso washing up on Staten Island in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Any killers who are in the news at the time
Speaker 2: missing person notices that kind of thing. Because something we
Speaker 2: discovered in season one when we first attempted to identify
Speaker 2: this Jane Doe, is that accessing official information about missing
Speaker 2: or unidentified people is, to put it mildly, no easy task.
Speaker 2: Hopefully you won't have experienced the pain of a loved
Speaker 2: one vanishing without a trace, but for those who have,
Speaker 2: who spend their lives searching through a labyrinth of police,
Speaker 2: medical examiners, media and other systems, it's often near impossible
Speaker 2: to find any answers. You'd probably think that our team
Speaker 2: would have better luck with our resources After all, we've
Speaker 2: got me a relentlessly nosy person, Mindy the brain box
Speaker 2: doctor turned sleuth, Elaine Katz, the accomplished family lawyer, and
Speaker 2: my producer turned adopted daughter Anna who just so happens
Speaker 2: to be an investigative journalist. Plus there's multiple people working
Speaker 2: full time behind the scenes who you haven't even met.
Speaker 2: So if we're struggling to get answers, what kind of
Speaker 2: chance to everyday people have when a loved one goes missing,
Speaker 2: maybe this could explain why our Jane Do has gone
Speaker 2: unidentified for thirty five years. Mindy waste no time getting
Speaker 2: the librarian's attention.
Speaker 6: Okay, are you ready for the query of the day?
Speaker 3: Right, I'm not sure? You better sit down.
Speaker 4: I am interested in fundamentally two things. Is a torso
Speaker 4: watched upon the shores of Staten Island on May twenty first,
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty nine, and I'd like all information that I
Speaker 4: can find about that torso.
Speaker 3: The next thing is.
Speaker 4: I would like any and all information on the psychopathology
Speaker 4: of pillers that dismember their victims.
Speaker 2: The librarians on the other side of the desk shoot
Speaker 2: a raised eyebrow in Mindy's direction.
Speaker 4: Right, you know, I look like clearly someone who was investigating.
Speaker 3: Do I look like all murders in the building?
Speaker 4: Do I have that vague resemblance to Suna, no miss thanks,
Speaker 4: that's familia.
Speaker 2: But unfortunately, not only does Mindy struggle to get a
Speaker 2: compliment from these librarians, they also can't find any relevant information.
Speaker 2: In fact, she and Anna aren't making much progress in
Speaker 2: Manhattan at all. Maybe we're finding it hard because what
Speaker 2: we really want, what we need is more information from
Speaker 2: the time when the torso was discovered on Staten Island.
Speaker 2: We should be able to get that kind of stuff
Speaker 2: from the original police reports, something we're not going to
Speaker 2: find in the library.
Speaker 3: So we decide, fuck it.
Speaker 2: Why don't we just turn up at Staten Island Police
Speaker 2: Department and ask for the reports ourselves?
Speaker 1: Well, right under the sign twenty more Yeah.
Speaker 2: The one hundred and twenty first Precinct in Staten Island
Speaker 2: is a big concrete building with a long line of
Speaker 2: steps leading up to the entrance.
Speaker 3: It's intimidating.
Speaker 2: We stagger up the stairs and we go through the
Speaker 2: tall glass doors and immediately we look out of place.
Speaker 6: What's happening at.
Speaker 3: Typical?
Speaker 2: Mindy charges ahead while I hide behind producer Anna, who's
Speaker 2: concealed her microphone and a pair of fluffy gloves.
Speaker 3: It's all very covert.
Speaker 2: When we get to the front desk, we're greeted by
Speaker 2: this really sweet Officer's.
Speaker 4: Interested in if I can get some old record it's
Speaker 4: from nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 7: What kind of records?
Speaker 2: At first, understandably he doesn't know what to make of
Speaker 2: this strange, multi generational group of women digging into a
Speaker 2: cold case.
Speaker 3: He seems pretty suspicious.
Speaker 2: Luckily, we've got Mindy's New York charm to win him over.
Speaker 4: And could you just jimmy one huge phavor because I
Speaker 4: grew up in New York. Could you say perpetrator for me?
Speaker 3: Perpetrator.
Speaker 2: But we're here on business, so we asked the officer
Speaker 2: to check the records for anything connected to the Torso.
Speaker 8: When you find some baits here, let's say how far.
Speaker 5: We go from?
Speaker 2: But it doesn't go very far. When he types our
Speaker 2: case number into his it draws a blank. The case
Speaker 2: is too old and the files have likely not been digitized.
Speaker 2: But the suite officer, he does give us something.
Speaker 8: Let me search for a cold case health album.
Speaker 4: Okay, that would be great.
Speaker 2: A phone number that we can call for information on
Speaker 2: cold cases.
Speaker 9: You know, hopefully they'll be able to help you navigate
Speaker 9: through this journey.
Speaker 6: Do you think that records?
Speaker 2: So it's looking like we won't quite get what we
Speaker 2: came for, but we're not going to be leaving empty
Speaker 2: handed either. We've got a brand new cold case number
Speaker 2: to call and a new friend. It's dat n Island pd' from.
Speaker 1: I'm from England's okay, not live England.
Speaker 10: I'll never visited, but I always wanted as a teenager,
Speaker 10: but then I grew up.
Speaker 9: Now I'm in my forties, I'm a grandfather.
Speaker 4: Wow, you're a young Congratulations muscle us.
Speaker 2: It seems we've garnered all the information we can and
Speaker 2: Mindy's also got her eye on an iconic Staten Island
Speaker 2: pizza joint for lunch. So, with stomachs rumbling, we exchange
Speaker 2: goodbyes with our new friend and make our.
Speaker 3: Way out of the police station.
Speaker 7: We got a number that we haven't had with goal,
Speaker 7: so tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We're gonna call.
Speaker 3: What do you mean we're calling in the car?
Speaker 6: All right?
Speaker 2: We jump in a taxi and have barely got our
Speaker 2: seatbelts on before Mindy starts dialing. We're hoping to find
Speaker 2: out if our Jane Doe is connected to a registered
Speaker 2: cold case, and if there's any information that can help
Speaker 2: us continue the story beyond nineteen ninety eight, which is
Speaker 2: when Elaine Kats's files end.
Speaker 6: All right, we're calling.
Speaker 5: Thank you for calling the New York City Police Department.
Speaker 9: The party you are trying to reach is unavailable at
Speaker 9: this time.
Speaker 3: Please goal again, goodbye.
Speaker 2: Of course not that would be too easy. We keep trying, though,
Speaker 2: But when we eventually get through, it turns out that
Speaker 2: sweet officer point portrayer, he gave us the wrong number.
Speaker 2: I mean, can we catch a goddamn break? We still
Speaker 2: don't give up. Mindy is soldiering on, unperturbed. Through some digging,
Speaker 2: she manages to find the correct number. But dear listener,
Speaker 2: don't hold your breath.
Speaker 1: Or more ontion.
Speaker 4: Hi, my name is Mindy Shapiro, and I am calling
Speaker 4: about a cold case from nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2: If you're exasperated just listening to this, imagine how we feel.
Speaker 2: It's like we're constantly hitting a wall, being sent around
Speaker 2: in circles from one agency to another. Maybe we're out
Speaker 2: of our depth here, even with Mindy on the case.
Speaker 3: Maybe we need some advice.
Speaker 2: From someone who's actually solved a cold case, and not
Speaker 2: just any cold case, but one that's very close to
Speaker 2: our hearts, the murder of gailcats.
Speaker 1: Hi. Wo you good, thank you.
Speaker 3: Anna just arrived at the office of Dan Bibb. He's
Speaker 3: a DA.
Speaker 2: Prosecutor who put my ex Bob Bernbaum away for twenty
Speaker 2: to life. He's also the guy who helped prove instant
Speaker 2: for all that our Jane Do's torso did not belong
Speaker 2: to Gail Katz. He's eager to know the latest on
Speaker 2: our investigation.
Speaker 9: So what's been going on?
Speaker 8: So we're trying to identify this torso, which is maybe
Speaker 8: a fool's.
Speaker 9: Errand I don't think it is. I remember we notified
Speaker 9: the precinct or whoever was in charge, that this is
Speaker 9: now an open case again because it's not Gail Katz.
Speaker 9: What happened to the investigation after that? I have no idea.
Speaker 9: You know, in ninety eight, did missing persons really want
Speaker 9: to deal with a nineteen eighty nine torso that washed up?
Speaker 9: I don't know. I mean, could it have fallen through
Speaker 9: the cracks? Yes? How is it dealing with the m's office.
Speaker 2: Dan is talking about the Medical Examiner's office.
Speaker 3: You already know that Mindy has put.
Speaker 2: In a freedom of information request to them, so is
Speaker 2: Gail's sister Elaine, and they're not the only ones.
Speaker 3: All the way back.
Speaker 2: In the first series of The Girlfriends, Madeline parr Our,
Speaker 2: assistant producer and research Queen, reached out asking for any
Speaker 2: documents relating to the Torso.
Speaker 11: Fifth of December twenty twenty two. Hither, I'm a journalist
Speaker 11: from the UK and I'm wondering if you might be
Speaker 11: able to help me find out some information about a
Speaker 11: body that was discovered in nineteen eight.
Speaker 2: We get a response saying they're going to look into
Speaker 2: it for us, which is great news, and then a
Speaker 2: few weeks go by we haven't heard anything, so we
Speaker 2: decide to check in.
Speaker 11: Fourth of January twenty twenty three. Hi, I hope you've
Speaker 11: had a lovely holidays and a happy new Year. I'm
Speaker 11: just wondering if you've got anywhere with tracking down those records.
Speaker 2: Months go by, still nothing. Eventually we just get plane
Speaker 2: pissed off.
Speaker 11: Ninth of January twenty twenty four, did happy New Year again?
Speaker 11: I'm writing to let you know that it has now
Speaker 11: been over a year since My initial request was sent
Speaker 11: to you on the fifth of December twenty twenty two,
Speaker 11: and we are yet to receive any progress a tool
Speaker 11: on these records.
Speaker 3: Nothing's worked.
Speaker 2: We've always been met with a wall of silence, and
Speaker 2: to be honest, we're starting to take it pretty personally.
Speaker 9: I mean, why wouldn't they just tell you you could
Speaker 9: appeal to their foil officer and then you could chew.
Speaker 9: But why wouldn't they just tell you that instead of
Speaker 9: stringing and off for a year.
Speaker 2: We don't want to get to the point of suing
Speaker 2: the Medical Examiner's office. We just want them to respond
Speaker 2: to us. We want to know what information they have
Speaker 2: on the Torso after nineteen ninety eight, which is a
Speaker 2: year she was exzumed from Gail Catt's grave. We want
Speaker 2: to know where she went and crucially, if she was
Speaker 2: ever identified. Our mission isn't about pointing the finger or
Speaker 2: assigning blame. What we want to do is fill in
Speaker 2: the gaps of our lost sister's journey, to find out
Speaker 2: her name, to give her back her own story, not
Speaker 2: just make her a footnote in Gail Kata's case. And
Speaker 2: above all, we hope that in uncovering this mystery. We
Speaker 2: can bring closure to a lane and possibly to our
Speaker 2: Jane Doe's family, wherever they may be. But maybe it's
Speaker 2: time for a more direct approach. Next up, doctor Detective
Speaker 2: Mindy Shapiro heads to the Medical Examiner's office to get
Speaker 2: some goddamn answers.
Speaker 8: At the age of sixteen, I was busy swooning over boys.
Speaker 2: In fact, that was the first year I fell in love,
Speaker 2: the first and a long run of terrible boyfriends. But Mindy, well,
Speaker 2: she was far too ambitious to be distracted by something
Speaker 2: as silly as boys.
Speaker 3: At sixteen, she.
Speaker 2: Was busy lining herself up to get into a good
Speaker 2: medical college, which meant internships. And where, you might ask,
Speaker 2: did she intern in the summer of nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 2: the Manhattan Medical Examiner's Office.
Speaker 3: You just can't make this shit up.
Speaker 5: I would get on the bus from my parents' apartment
Speaker 5: to the Medical Examiner's office, and I'd watched them do autopsies.
Speaker 5: And then one week I worked in the lab with
Speaker 5: the stomach contents. One week I worked in the bones,
Speaker 5: and it was like Wayne Heart.
Speaker 3: Does something delivers.
Speaker 2: And now, about fifty years later, Mindy's back at her
Speaker 2: old office, she wants to find out where our Jane
Speaker 2: Doe went after she was exhumed from Gail Kata's grave.
Speaker 4: Hi, it's tact to Shapiro, and I'd like to speak
Speaker 4: with the deputy medical Examiner.
Speaker 9: Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3: To get us in the door.
Speaker 2: And because we're getting kind of desperate here, we've decided
Speaker 2: to act like Mindy is simply stopping by to see
Speaker 2: an old colleague.
Speaker 4: I worked here a billion years ago, and the entries good.
Speaker 10: Never change.
Speaker 2: Mindy's asking to meet with the deputy medical Examiner, not
Speaker 2: the chief. We decided that be too suspicious, and it
Speaker 2: seems to be working. The receptionist gets on the phone
Speaker 2: and says that the deputy is in a meeting but
Speaker 2: will be free in just thirty minutes.
Speaker 7: Oh well wait, we've been waiting for over a year already,
Speaker 7: so what's another thirty minutes.
Speaker 3: But it's nerve wracking.
Speaker 2: For the first time, we're coming face to face with
Speaker 2: the people who've been avoiding us for so long. And
Speaker 2: it's not just that so much has happened under this roof.
Speaker 2: It was in this very same building where Elaine was
Speaker 2: first told that the torso was not her sister Gail
Speaker 2: after all, it's a lot for Mindy to take in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I'm just persons and processing in anticipating.
Speaker 2: Then the strange silence is punctured by a woman a
Speaker 2: little waist down the hall, screaming.
Speaker 3: Piece somebody, identify somebody. She has just identified the body
Speaker 3: of her son. Oh.
Speaker 2: After a tense minute, the whales draw closer. The woman
Speaker 2: with someone we assumed to be her husband, burst into
Speaker 2: the lobby. We're not going to play any tape of her,
Speaker 2: out of respect for such an intimate moment. But all
Speaker 2: I can say is it's the rawest expression of grief
Speaker 2: that you can possibly imagine. This experience is one that
Speaker 2: no mother, including this one, should ever have.
Speaker 3: To go through.
Speaker 2: And yet here's she is, in the lobby of an
Speaker 2: office building on what should be a normal Wednesday afternoon,
Speaker 2: screaming into the void. That's not my son. My son
Speaker 2: had a home, my son had a family. He told
Speaker 2: me he was safe. Anna, Mindy and the security guards
Speaker 2: are all sitting in silence, trying not to intrude on
Speaker 2: the woman's grief or make her feel self conscious, but
Speaker 2: they also feel this pull to just jump up and
Speaker 2: give her a hug. What do you do when face
Speaker 2: was something so unimaginably awful, how do you even begin
Speaker 2: to help? Before they can try a different tac the
Speaker 2: woman and her husband leave, her cries spilling out into
Speaker 2: the faceless Manhattan street.
Speaker 6: And that's why we're doing this. It's horrible.
Speaker 1: It's horrible.
Speaker 6: You know, it's hard enough for me watching you with
Speaker 6: like your Facebook.
Speaker 10: But this is all normal for you. But it's not normal,
Speaker 10: you know it. Yes, it is. It is very very normal.
Speaker 4: And they are experiences that you hope you never have,
Speaker 4: or if you have them, you only want them once
Speaker 4: and then you don't.
Speaker 6: Talk about them. And what makes them tell is that
Speaker 6: we don't.
Speaker 4: They're just not discussed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as much as that was a tough thing to
Speaker 2: bear witness to, it just brings it all home.
Speaker 3: Our Jane Doe.
Speaker 2: Get of a mother out there who hasn't even been
Speaker 2: gifted the opportunity as brutal as it is to know
Speaker 2: the truth about what happened to her daughter, bereft of
Speaker 2: the opportunity to wail and scream in public, to show
Speaker 2: the depths of her pain to the world and make
Speaker 2: them look. Five minutes pass and the deputy medical examiner
Speaker 2: walks out of some heavy double doors. Anna and Mindy
Speaker 2: had rehearsed what they were going to say to her,
Speaker 2: but the tones changed. Now they're more desperate for answers
Speaker 2: than ever, so they're pleading with her.
Speaker 4: I'm a physician, I retired, and I'm here on actually
Speaker 4: an act.
Speaker 6: Of mercy for a friend of mine who has.
Speaker 4: Had a remote tragedy.
Speaker 6: Nineteen eighty nine, and I'm trying.
Speaker 3: To get some closure the case for her.
Speaker 2: Basically in nineteen eighty five, Mindy runs through the whole
Speaker 2: complicated story once again, and at first it seemed like
Speaker 2: we might finally be getting some answers.
Speaker 4: You have like case number yes, yes, the Emmy case
Speaker 4: numbers eighty nine, five, six three.
Speaker 6: Whereas yeah, think it's.
Speaker 5: The oh, okay, we have someone like our anthropologists probably
Speaker 5: be able to I'm running.
Speaker 4: At three o'clock.
Speaker 5: If you want to leave your contact information with me. Otherwise,
Speaker 5: I mean we'll be out of a meeting probably at
Speaker 5: like four o'clock.
Speaker 4: I can't promise anything's going to happen if you do. Wait.
Speaker 3: Mindy and Anna sit back down to wait again.
Speaker 2: But when the deputy pushes through the doors after her
Speaker 2: three pm meeting, her expressions changed.
Speaker 3: She's still smiling, but now it's guarded.
Speaker 5: The director of anthropology is in the meeting with me,
Speaker 5: so I just briefly mentioned to him.
Speaker 1: He's aware of it and they were planning on reaching.
Speaker 5: Out to you.
Speaker 6: Oh, they're just finding out answers to your It's called love. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, someone is aware of it and has an anthropologists
Speaker 4: have been working on it.
Speaker 1: But someone will be in.
Speaker 4: Touch with you.
Speaker 10: Thank you.
Speaker 1: That Phil's good.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Thanks. Anna and Mindy are getting the distinct impression that
Speaker 2: they've overstayed their welcome, so they high tail it out
Speaker 2: of the Medical Examiner's office.
Speaker 4: Well we waited. We got some very interesting experience out
Speaker 4: of this.
Speaker 10: Oh my god, I need a drink.
Speaker 4: I'll buy you a drink and can go down here.
Speaker 2: Spoiler alert, dear listener, we did not hear back about
Speaker 2: the files.
Speaker 3: So what next. Well, if you're looking to track.
Speaker 2: Down a body, the next best place to go is
Speaker 2: probably a cemetery. And if you're looking to track down
Speaker 2: an unidentified body in New York, then you're best head
Speaker 2: to the city's largest public burial ground, Heart Island. Coming
Speaker 2: up next time on the girlfriends Our Lost Sister.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, wait, Oh my god.
Speaker 11: Wait, look at what it says next to it.
Speaker 1: Look at the day what I can't believe this.
Speaker 2: The girlfriends Our Lost Sister is produced by Novel for
Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. For more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio.
Speaker 2: The show is hosted by me Carol Fisher, and our
Speaker 2: chief investigator is Mindy Shapiro. To find me on social media,
Speaker 2: search Carol A. Fisher, That's Carol with an E. The
Speaker 2: season is written and produced by Anna Sinfield and Lee Meyer.
Speaker 2: Our assistant producer is Madeline Parr. The editor is Joe Wheeler.
Speaker 2: Max O'Brien is our executive producer. Our fact checker is
Speaker 2: Dania Suleiman. Production management from Shurie Houston and Charlotte woolf
Speaker 2: Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander, Additional engineering
Speaker 2: by Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Anna Sinfield and Nicholas Alexander.
Speaker 2: Original music composed and performed by Luisa Gerstein and produced
Speaker 2: by Louisa Gerstein and Nicholas Alexander. The series artwork was
Speaker 2: designed by Christina Limpool. Story development by Annason Filad. Willard
Speaker 2: Foxton is creative director of Development. Our executive producers at
Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etour. Special thanks
Speaker 2: to Ali Canter, Carrie Lieberman, and Will Pearson at iHeart
Speaker 2: podcast as well as Carly Frankel and the whole team
Speaker 2: at w MEE and especial shout out to Vince Hayward,
Speaker 2: who's my life partner in True Crime for taking on
Speaker 2: the role of girlfriend's confidante and lead tech support novel