Speaker 1: Enjoying Black Tech Green Money. It would mean a lot
Speaker 1: if you rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts or
Speaker 1: Google Play. The way the algorithm works. The more you
Speaker 1: rate and say nice things, they'll introduce black tech Green
Speaker 1: Money to more people, and more of us need this content.
Speaker 1: So thank you for rating this podcast five stars. Today.
Speaker 1: Afro Tech twenty nineteen, Oakland, California. Delane Partnell is the
Speaker 1: CEO of Play Versus, the fast growing East sports company
Speaker 1: taking school districts across the US by storm. He's on
Speaker 1: stage speaking with Black d CEO Morgan Dubon about team building, hiring,
Speaker 1: and putting the right people in the right scenes on
Speaker 1: the bus to grow a successful company. From a team perspective, like,
Speaker 1: I love my team Like, uh, I think I have
Speaker 1: an incredible collection of people. It's one of the most
Speaker 1: diverse companies you're walk into ever. Um, you know, gender, ethnicity, background,
Speaker 1: you know so many beautiful shape of people. Uh. And
Speaker 1: they're all really experienced. They've helped build companies. They all
Speaker 1: have different backgrounds, um and uh and I'm super fortunate
Speaker 1: for that. The one thing that that make a company
Speaker 1: be successful is team. Like the idea literally does not
Speaker 1: matter because the idea involves too right, and it changes
Speaker 1: over time, and and it changes based on the people
Speaker 1: that you work with and you're hiring. So finding the
Speaker 1: best team possible, uh is super important. And the one
Speaker 1: thing that you know I always focused on, especially because
Speaker 1: we raised so much money, was now I have the
Speaker 1: resources to swing you know, basically in the different weight class.
Speaker 1: So I went out and hired the best executives. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was hiring executives whose opportunity was like,
Speaker 1: come joined this really small start up with five people,
Speaker 1: or go be the an executive at Bird when they
Speaker 1: were you know, just raised a billion dollars. But you know,
Speaker 1: I had a lot of confidence, you know, I had
Speaker 1: a really strong vision, and I was just on their
Speaker 1: phone every day. Hey, look, let's talk about this more.
Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me what issues you know you have,
Speaker 1: What are you contemplating on this? Just like kind of
Speaker 1: work through their problems to convince them to come over,
Speaker 1: and we end up hiring some really incredible people. But uh,
Speaker 1: but yeah, like team hired, hiring really strong people, don't
Speaker 1: prioritize hiring friends, hire the best person for the job,
Speaker 1: and and and don't worry about domain experience. So like
Speaker 1: for us, Like we're focused on the sports, so we
Speaker 1: don't need people who understand the sports. We need people
Speaker 1: who have incredible death at whatever there's job is. Or
Speaker 1: if you're a CFO, I want you to be the
Speaker 1: best CFO possible based on that skill set. And then
Speaker 1: I want you to being an incredible leader. Right, So
Speaker 1: like leadership, ability and skill and then depth in your experience,
Speaker 1: uh and like your domain. I think it's most important
Speaker 1: than actual market experience. I'm Will Lucas and this is
Speaker 1: Black Tech your Money. I'm gonna introduce you to some
Speaker 1: of the biggest names, some of the brightest minds and
Speaker 1: brilliant ideas. If you're black in building or simply using
Speaker 1: tech to secure your bag, this podcast is for you.
Speaker 1: Arlen Hamilton is an investor and the founder and managing
Speaker 1: partner of Backstage Capital, with specializes in investing in women,
Speaker 1: people of color, and LGBT founders. She released their first
Speaker 1: book from Pinkuin Random House entitled It's About Damn Time,
Speaker 1: which is based on her personal journey into entrepreneurship and
Speaker 1: venture capital. I asked Artless, is black people are the
Speaker 1: culture that has driven revenue for so many companies, whether
Speaker 1: it be in social media, music, entertainment. Why don't investors
Speaker 1: just go to the well and fun black people, you know,
Speaker 1: cut out the middleman, same reason they don't do it
Speaker 1: everywhere else. It's the same reason you have. I don't
Speaker 1: know the percentages, but I think of any major sports
Speaker 1: team and footballer the NBA, most of the players are black.
Speaker 1: None of the quarterbacks are black, none of the owners
Speaker 1: are black. None of the dish and the dad are black.
Speaker 1: Same reason you have. Every once in a while, they'll
Speaker 1: they'll throw us a movie or a TV show, but
Speaker 1: who's who are the executives? Who are the showrunners, with
Speaker 1: the exception of a few who have broken ground, who
Speaker 1: get to actually make decisions there it's always us asking
Speaker 1: them for permission, and with the exception of people like
Speaker 1: Tyler Perry and Ava du Vernay, uh Ray, etcetera. So
Speaker 1: when you look at companies, are you trying to predict
Speaker 1: that this company will will make it? Or are you
Speaker 1: trying to ride away? Because I guess what I'm asking
Speaker 1: is some some companies get funded super early, and some
Speaker 1: they got to have that traction for an early stage
Speaker 1: investor to put the money in before they actually have
Speaker 1: a thing. So we invest at backstage. At my firm,
Speaker 1: we invest in two percent about about what we see,
Speaker 1: you know, so just about two percent. Sometimes it's less,
Speaker 1: and so first at the gate. I think every single
Speaker 1: company that we end up investing in I have to
Speaker 1: feel is going to be successful. Um and we are
Speaker 1: notorious for being a first investor in with no other
Speaker 1: person telling us or in to t telling us that's
Speaker 1: what we're supposed to do. And we also have been
Speaker 1: in several deals where it was obvious that they had
Speaker 1: something going and that was going to make it, but
Speaker 1: we always look at it from the lens of we
Speaker 1: believe this can be something. At the same time, I
Speaker 1: think what's also helped us a lot is that even
Speaker 1: though we are our sharky venture capitalists, we're also looking
Speaker 1: at it as these are humans and there are a
Speaker 1: lot of variables that none of us can control the
Speaker 1: company themselves or the vcs, and we're gonna be with
Speaker 1: them through all of the ups and downs because there's
Speaker 1: no way to tell that early if something is going
Speaker 1: to work. You can hope and expect it to and
Speaker 1: you can say, all things being considered, in all things
Speaker 1: being fair, this should have worked. But then things aren't
Speaker 1: fair in the real world. So I look at it as,
Speaker 1: first of all, if you made it to the two percent,
Speaker 1: there was something there. That's not to say that what
Speaker 1: we don't invest in does it shouldn't be invested in.
Speaker 1: It's just that that's what we invest in UM. And
Speaker 1: then second of all, it's how can we do everything
Speaker 1: on our and our power to be additive and help
Speaker 1: them reach their goals and sometimes that also means just
Speaker 1: getting out of their way. You use the phrase that
Speaker 1: you know you have to believe in something like what
Speaker 1: makes you believe a few things. I'm I'm looking at
Speaker 1: things that they've done before, you know, I'm I'm looking
Speaker 1: at what what did you do before you met me?
Speaker 1: You know, before you got into this room or in
Speaker 1: this zoom? How where did you take yourself? And so
Speaker 1: many times, especially with the founders that we're investing in,
Speaker 1: people have incredible stories of kind of eat some nature
Speaker 1: of like getting to where they are UM and and
Speaker 1: there's always something to behold there. So it's about what
Speaker 1: they've accomplished with the very limited resources they may have had,
Speaker 1: or or if they've had more resources than that, have
Speaker 1: they used them wisely? In our opinion. So I look
Speaker 1: at that, I look at our people, uh, paying attention
Speaker 1: to them. Are they do they do they have customers,
Speaker 1: whether that be B two B or B two C, Like,
Speaker 1: do they have something about their product, their service, the
Speaker 1: charisma of of who they are if they're super early,
Speaker 1: there's something there and that's why we rarely invest in
Speaker 1: idea stage. We invest um emotionally at the idea of stage,
Speaker 1: but we do not invest in financially there because there's
Speaker 1: so many companies by underrepresented founders, underestimated founders where at
Speaker 1: the gate it's a it's a about making money, yeah,
Speaker 1: not about like three or four years or we didn't
Speaker 1: make any money and we're gonna be VC backed ten
Speaker 1: million dollars into this. So there's a lot to look at.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of data to look at. But then
Speaker 1: ultimately that early I'm looking at is this person going
Speaker 1: to wake up every day and breathe life into this company.
Speaker 1: You talked about the human element of you know what
Speaker 1: you do, and you have people who I would imagine
Speaker 1: when we were all outside, you know, we'll see you
Speaker 1: at a conference and not a n AFRO tech, but
Speaker 1: see you at a conference in you're they're black, and
Speaker 1: you're the only black VC in the room, and like
Speaker 1: all this got to understand what what I'm what I
Speaker 1: what it took for me to get in this room,
Speaker 1: you know number one, but to get here with a thing.
Speaker 1: And I wonder when they come to you with that
Speaker 1: bleeding heart, you know how much of that? How how
Speaker 1: do you manage that when it's also Look, this is
Speaker 1: about venture capital and it's not just about I love
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do. I see that your heart is,
Speaker 1: I see your passion. But this is about dollars and cents. Still, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I couldn't do what I do if I didn't know
Speaker 1: how to separate the two because, like I said, two
Speaker 1: of what we see, so it's stories most likely that
Speaker 1: I like that to to you know the other two. Um,
Speaker 1: I'll say what I've said since the beginning. This isn't
Speaker 1: your black Let me write you a check day. This
Speaker 1: is not what this is. So what I do in
Speaker 1: my career, in my profession as a venture capitalist, as
Speaker 1: an investor, however you want to call it, is I
Speaker 1: make investments based on criteria that I have and instincts
Speaker 1: that I have, and the effort to make money for
Speaker 1: myself for our stakeholders and for our LPs, and what
Speaker 1: I do outside of that and the other six revenue
Speaker 1: streams that I have is if I want to be philanthropic,
Speaker 1: I can be philanthropic all day long, right, So I
Speaker 1: have to separate it. Well, I'm not. You're not coming
Speaker 1: into the room for me the investor and trying to
Speaker 1: get me on a sad story because I have a
Speaker 1: sad story, you know. And I wasn't the first person
Speaker 1: to tell the sad story, you know, that story. I
Speaker 1: was kind of out it and then I kind of
Speaker 1: went on that ride. Um, once I realized that it
Speaker 1: was helping a lot of people get through their current situation.
Speaker 1: But you can't get me in a sad story because
Speaker 1: I'm gonna care like I was car in person. But
Speaker 1: that's not that's not gonna tell me if in five
Speaker 1: years you would have upside for the both of us.
Speaker 1: So um. There have been people who have come in
Speaker 1: told me their story, come in hot, you know, coming
Speaker 1: in hot on an email or something or meeting me
Speaker 1: in person. They say, I know you're gonna at this
Speaker 1: and you're my only shot. Mm hmm. And I think
Speaker 1: what they think that means is that you know, they
Speaker 1: psyched themselves into thinking she's gonna write me a check today.
Speaker 1: Where do I you know, where do I cash it?
Speaker 1: And I have to tell them that we can't afford
Speaker 1: to do that. I think there was a one time
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, like your tears aren't gonna
Speaker 1: get you the check. And that's with me or with
Speaker 1: anyone else. Also, if you feel like I'm your only shot,
Speaker 1: something else is wrong, something else is wrong because what
Speaker 1: I don't, what I think a lot of people miss
Speaker 1: with my story is I've raised a few million dollars
Speaker 1: and I've deployed that into two companies with my team.
Speaker 1: But I've also generated millions of dollars in revenue the
Speaker 1: past five years. I've also bootstrapped the company to keep
Speaker 1: the lights on every single year and every single month
Speaker 1: without very much outside help. So I know that there's
Speaker 1: no one person, no rich person, who is my only shot.
Speaker 1: You know, I have gotten creative every single year. So
Speaker 1: when people come to me and they have a sad story,
Speaker 1: I feel that paying with them, I relate to them
Speaker 1: in many ways. In some ways that I'll never relate
Speaker 1: to them because they've gone through things I haven't gone through.
Speaker 1: But that does not mean that I'm getting the you know,
Speaker 1: handing my clutch and let me get get my check.
Speaker 1: Can't because we have so much that we have to
Speaker 1: live up to and it won't do anybody any good.
Speaker 1: And I think people don't get this about me like
Speaker 1: I know this. It won't do us any good if
Speaker 1: backstage doesn't do well, that's right. So how do you
Speaker 1: define seat stage to get You know, every every every
Speaker 1: angel investor or VC I talked to defines it a
Speaker 1: little bit of a different way. Check sizes are from
Speaker 1: twenty grand to Yeah. I think it changes about every
Speaker 1: eighteen months. I mean it probably changes every six months
Speaker 1: and then real real change every eighteen months. It just
Speaker 1: I mean six years ago it was different than it
Speaker 1: was than it is today. A year ago is different. Seed. Um,
Speaker 1: I guess the way and not to be not trying
Speaker 1: to be facetious, but it's just whatever whatever is after
Speaker 1: a preseed, okay, Because sometimes I'm like, okay, are you
Speaker 1: are you calling this your preceded or your seed And
Speaker 1: I'll get an answer like it's my bridge to seed
Speaker 1: from precede And We've raised one point seven million in
Speaker 1: pre seed and I'm like, WHOA, Well, how much the
Speaker 1: company do you still on? Are really you on when
Speaker 1: this converge? Because I don't you have a one point
Speaker 1: seven million pre seed and now you're doing a bridge
Speaker 1: to the seed, you know. And sometimes it happens because
Speaker 1: these things roll, they roll, they roll, they roll. You
Speaker 1: have a three year period where people are just raising
Speaker 1: and they haven't um made it to what you would
Speaker 1: think seed is in their in their metrics for one
Speaker 1: reason or another, like they did. They don't have the
Speaker 1: inflection point of having enough in the bank at the
Speaker 1: right time or this, that and the other. Um. But
Speaker 1: I just call it whatever is between presed and series A,
Speaker 1: and there's like four levels to it. There's a seed
Speaker 1: one A and most seeds that I'm seeing right now
Speaker 1: are um they're raising somewhere between two million and five million.
Speaker 1: There are some outliers in either direction and their evaluation
Speaker 1: or I guess your their post is somewhere between uh
Speaker 1: ten and I got you, all right. So most of
Speaker 1: the questions I'm gonna are from the perspective of trying
Speaker 1: to understand how we get more. Arlan Hamilton's out here
Speaker 1: and how we get more Charles Hudson's and Richard Kirby's
Speaker 1: and Canadas, Matthew's Brookins and Brian Brookins and so in
Speaker 1: that from that perspective, from that lens, how meaningful? And
Speaker 1: I've read that you you invest somewhere usually between twenty
Speaker 1: K hundred k typically UM. That might have adjusted to
Speaker 1: your last statement, mum, how meaningful is a twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand dollar check a hundred thousand dollarge check to a
Speaker 1: black founder, particularly LGBTQ founder and underrepresented founder when you're
Speaker 1: when you're evaluating the deal and like what milestones are
Speaker 1: you hoping that that capital gets them too? Is it
Speaker 1: that you're hoping that they can on board more users
Speaker 1: or is it that you're hoping they can raise more money. Typically,
Speaker 1: to follow on to that, because you're the first end,
Speaker 1: everybody's differ. Everybody's a little bit different because at backstage
Speaker 1: we're very flexible. We've talked to our LPs from day
Speaker 1: one to say that we're not chasing unicorns. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll have some, but we're not chasing them. So it
Speaker 1: is very specific to the company what the company needs
Speaker 1: and wants. So to answer the first part of your
Speaker 1: question or to kind of comment on it, we in
Speaker 1: In the past, we have invested twenty five thousand, fifty thousand,
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand, and in the last twelve months it's
Speaker 1: been anything between fifty thousand and one point five million, UM. So,
Speaker 1: you know, to answer the question, I have to tell
Speaker 1: you that there's there's layers to it, and that there
Speaker 1: is a plan that's the decades long, and it's a
Speaker 1: decade in the making, so early on, you know, And
Speaker 1: I just had Morgan on my podcast from you know,
Speaker 1: CEO of Bravity and Afrotech, and she said early on
Speaker 1: she didn't quite get it, and I understood that, and
Speaker 1: we had talked about that in the past. You have
Speaker 1: to walk to run or in some cases walk to fly,
Speaker 1: and really got to transport ourselves back to two thousand fourteen.
Speaker 1: I mean, when I think about two thousand and fifteen,
Speaker 1: the summer of Stephanie Lambkin, nobody would check for her,
Speaker 1: Nobody would check for Juel Burke's two thousand fifteen. I
Speaker 1: was around during the or during the Bravity round during
Speaker 1: two fifteen. So what I was thinking back then was
Speaker 1: I'm homeless, literally homeless. I literally don't know what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna eat next, and I'm trying to get millionaires and
Speaker 1: billionaires to listen to me, to understand that black and
Speaker 1: brown and women founders and LGBTQ founders, they're not doing
Speaker 1: anybody any charity backing them. They're missing out right. That's
Speaker 1: the plainest way I can see it right now. So
Speaker 1: I had, I said, one day, I woke up and
Speaker 1: I'm like, they're not gonna listen to because they're not
Speaker 1: listening to me, but they have to listen to me
Speaker 1: if I'm on that cap table mm hm. And so
Speaker 1: I said, I don't know what it's gonna take. So
Speaker 1: I talked to people like Sam altmanute Y Combinator and
Speaker 1: his brother Jack. I talked to Michael Saibel. I talked
Speaker 1: to a few people, Brad Faeld, and I said, what's
Speaker 1: that number, Like, what's the number that I can be taken? Seriously?
Speaker 1: They said, listen, we do twenty five tho dollar checks.
Speaker 1: You know, when Mark Andreson invested in in Backstage the Fund,
Speaker 1: and and Chris Soccer and all these people, everybody was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're set, these are billionaires, and I'm like, no, no,
Speaker 1: you don't understand. They're doing fifty thou dollar checks right.
Speaker 1: So I said, if they are doing that, if I
Speaker 1: can get to twenty five thousand, because they're doing that,
Speaker 1: then they have to talk to me, and then they
Speaker 1: have to listen, and then I can put the spotlight
Speaker 1: on these founders. And so that was I when I'm
Speaker 1: sitting on the floor of the airport and I'm watching
Speaker 1: people go by, and I'm hungry, and I'm sad and pathetic,
Speaker 1: and the only way i can keep myself from crying
Speaker 1: myself into non existence, it's to strategize. I'm saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna invest in brand speaking of Brian. Brian Bracken
Speaker 1: was my first investment. I'm going to invest in Brian,
Speaker 1: gonna invest in Jewel, I'm going to invest in Morgan,
Speaker 1: I'm going to invest in Shina. You know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do this when I can, and it's gonna be twenty
Speaker 1: five dollars. So the first time I had six, when
Speaker 1: I had six investments of dollars, I got my first
Speaker 1: real piece of press in like a legal um paper
Speaker 1: made a lot of noise, and it wasn't about it
Speaker 1: was it was about like it was. If I look
Speaker 1: back on it now, I'd probably laugh at it. Because
Speaker 1: it'd be like, can you imagine that they found six
Speaker 1: black founders? Can you imagine this wasn't two fifteen or sixteen.
Speaker 1: So anyway, when I look at numbers, i'm people will
Speaker 1: will ask me to be an advisor and take advisor
Speaker 1: shares for no money just to be around them, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And so I'm not looking at
Speaker 1: the amount. I'm looking at what do we know about
Speaker 1: ourselves at backstage, about the work that we put in
Speaker 1: every single day for a decade, day in day out.
Speaker 1: How many times have we been somebody's first call and
Speaker 1: how many calls have we made on behalf of other people?
Speaker 1: And so all of it is to push, to catalyze,
Speaker 1: to to to say what others cannot say for you know,
Speaker 1: fear of losing something. All of that is wrapped up
Speaker 1: in check and guess what we might be writing dollar
Speaker 1: checks one day and the exact same reason. Becoming a
Speaker 1: Vinci capitalist. There's a lot like raising money for your startup,
Speaker 1: but instead of pitching your which or your software, you're
Speaker 1: alternatively trying to engage investors into the idea that you
Speaker 1: know how to find great deals. You've got the contacts,
Speaker 1: the inside track, you're the plug. So while pitching a
Speaker 1: startup as much ado about putting together a dope ten
Speaker 1: pages deck, what is it pitch like when you're putting
Speaker 1: your hat into the ring to be a bona fide investor,
Speaker 1: Arlen speaks, Sonny, it's funny that a lot has changed
Speaker 1: the last five years, but a lot hasn't when it
Speaker 1: comes to the pitch and when it comes to the reaction. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's still difficult for us to raise from from institutionals
Speaker 1: and from certain groups. But the pitch has always been
Speaker 1: we are under we're under we're underrepresented, so we're underestimated.
Speaker 1: If we have done so much us When I say we,
Speaker 1: I mean black founders first and almost if we have
Speaker 1: done so much with so little, imagine what you could do,
Speaker 1: what they could do with more, what we could do
Speaker 1: with more. And it's always been, even even when it
Speaker 1: meant losing out of money, it's always been this is
Speaker 1: not philanthropic, This is not for your heart streams. This
Speaker 1: is not for you to take this off of your
Speaker 1: good deeds for the year. This is there is a
Speaker 1: wave coming and you can either be crushed by it
Speaker 1: or you can ride it. And we see it earlier
Speaker 1: than a lot of people are seeing it. So we
Speaker 1: were saying this, and I was saying this personally in
Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve and thirteen and fourteen outside of
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley. So yes, of course there were many who
Speaker 1: are now friends, like black investors. That was never a question. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I correct people when somebody says I'm the first
Speaker 1: something there other. But what I saw from Afar was
Speaker 1: that there was a lot to lose for those black
Speaker 1: investors if they spoke up for being real. And I
Speaker 1: didn't have that to lose. I was already at bottom,
Speaker 1: so I I could go out there and scream and
Speaker 1: run around and say crazy things and people could hear it. Um.
Speaker 1: So when it comes to today, like you know, with
Speaker 1: the Republic raise, we just you know, with this crowd
Speaker 1: fund raise for the backstage entity to have to share
Speaker 1: an upside with us, which is at Republic dot co
Speaker 1: slash backstage, the pitch is the same. As you know,
Speaker 1: We've been saying this for years. I think it's undeniable
Speaker 1: now that black and brown founders, women founders, LGBTQ founders
Speaker 1: were always onto something. We're always doing something will do
Speaker 1: without us, We'll do without your investor money, My investment
Speaker 1: money will make away with or without us. Don't you
Speaker 1: want to be with them? We want to. And because
Speaker 1: we've said that and been about been about that for
Speaker 1: so long, we have proprietary access not only two deals,
Speaker 1: because we do have an incredible amount of deal flow
Speaker 1: in the thousands per year, but also in the terms
Speaker 1: and in the proximity to the founder, not just in
Speaker 1: this deal, not in just as this round. But as
Speaker 1: you get more and more downstream and more strategic, money
Speaker 1: becomes really really a commodity more so than it already is.
Speaker 1: And it comes down to relationships, and it comes down
Speaker 1: to integrity, and it comes down to loyalty and respect
Speaker 1: and trust. And when you put me, you know, toe
Speaker 1: to toe with somebody when it comes to those things,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have the most money in the room,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to win on some cases and that
Speaker 1: in those arenas. And so backing this jockey me particular
Speaker 1: backstage in general, UH becomes more and more strategic the
Speaker 1: further downstream we go. So the first five years may
Speaker 1: not have made much sense to people because they're like
Speaker 1: dollars until more than a companies, what are they doing?
Speaker 1: Are they saturating. Is it is a quality high? I
Speaker 1: mean so many. Even yesterday somebody tweeted me that I'm
Speaker 1: trash and portfolios trash and whatever. I'm gonna be crying
Speaker 1: all the way to the bank, knowing what I know
Speaker 1: about our portfolio and some of the things that are happening.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, go it. Then, So who do I need
Speaker 1: to be to be a VC? To be a VC,
Speaker 1: you know venture capital? Um. I was just in tech
Speaker 1: Crunch about this because I spoke a tech Crunch and
Speaker 1: they put it into an article. I'm not big on
Speaker 1: VC itself, and that's why I say you can call
Speaker 1: me a venture capitalist, can come and investor whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call me. To be a VC, I think
Speaker 1: you can be anyone who sees the future, sees what
Speaker 1: the future is gonna look like in their mind's eye.
Speaker 1: You don't have to go to have gone to any
Speaker 1: certain school to be a good VC. You don't have
Speaker 1: to go know any certain person. I do think you
Speaker 1: need to have a great deal of empathy for founders,
Speaker 1: whether that's because you are operating yourself, you've had that experience,
Speaker 1: you've worked on a company, or you've just been surrounded
Speaker 1: by that and and for some reason, um, you can
Speaker 1: you can speak to that because that's the majority of
Speaker 1: your job, is that management is Somebody asked me what
Speaker 1: a talent wrangler is because I used to be a
Speaker 1: talent wrangler for TV shows and music and that's what
Speaker 1: we're doing here. You know, I'm wrangling talent left and
Speaker 1: right at backstage. So I think you need to have
Speaker 1: that empathy and you there need there's a discretion that's
Speaker 1: definitely necessary. You're gonna learn a lot of uh proprietary information,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be in situations, you know, over time
Speaker 1: where something you know could affect something else and it
Speaker 1: could also make you wealthy. But you're skirting the line
Speaker 1: of either screwing someone over or as bad as you know,
Speaker 1: insider trading or whatever. And you have you know, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are messy at some
Speaker 1: parts in their lives and they have to kind of
Speaker 1: clean that up before they can jump into this arena.
Speaker 1: It is. It is high stakes every single day. Um.
Speaker 1: But if you could see the future and you have
Speaker 1: a very clear view of what that looks like, and
Speaker 1: there are some founders either now existing or the ones
Speaker 1: that you know will be there, to catch you. Um,
Speaker 1: then I think I want to see you deploying capital.
Speaker 1: There are many ways to do the same thing I'm
Speaker 1: doing to affect change that do not involve becoming a
Speaker 1: venture capitalists and playing this game, because this game is
Speaker 1: not that great. Uh So I would prefer you did that.
Speaker 1: I prefer you start a company. I prefer you, uh
Speaker 1: were a backer and angel investor, all those things. But
Speaker 1: if you are a few, you know, the few people
Speaker 1: who want to be venture capitalists. Um, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what school you went to, who you know, who your
Speaker 1: parents are. It just matters what what kind of fingerprint
Speaker 1: and you can leave in the on the on the world.
Speaker 1: It's a quote I found from you that I love.
Speaker 1: It says, I didn't come here to get your scrap.
Speaker 1: I didn't come here to get your pity or your charity.
Speaker 1: I came here to go toe to toe with you,
Speaker 1: head to head with you, and to take it all. Um.
Speaker 1: I imagine a world where um, black people dominate investing,
Speaker 1: right like we dominate other verticals culture specifically, How do
Speaker 1: we then get more eligible black And what I mean
Speaker 1: by eligible was what you said earlier, Like they have
Speaker 1: the loyalty, they have the trust that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: How do we get more of those black people to
Speaker 1: consider roles in investing? In your opinion, oh, I mean
Speaker 1: in my experience, UM, there's been a lot of interest
Speaker 1: because people just here the idea of being an investor
Speaker 1: and they think that makes you know, I get to
Speaker 1: work with money like that's interesting to me. I get
Speaker 1: to make those decisions. UM. Personally, what I what I
Speaker 1: know the next decade of my life will be is
Speaker 1: in addition to direct investments in companies the same way
Speaker 1: I just spent the last decade working on that, UM,
Speaker 1: the next decade will be in addition to that, is
Speaker 1: me backing more and more fund managers who are emerging
Speaker 1: because to me, that's really where things get interesting, the
Speaker 1: catalyzing and the impact you have there. And I don't
Speaker 1: just mean like social impact, I mean just impact on
Speaker 1: the world. Uh. Legacy, I guess is incredible there because
Speaker 1: it's tenfold in any kind of calculation. UM. So I
Speaker 1: think I know that. That's where I've piloted this idea
Speaker 1: with about a dozen funds led by underrepresented underestimated emerging
Speaker 1: managers UM, not exclusively, but mainly that and for the
Speaker 1: past two years or so and that'll probably look like
Speaker 1: a hundred funds over the next decade and kind of
Speaker 1: spread the not only the money but the information that
Speaker 1: I have. I'm always counseling about information all day long,
Speaker 1: so I think some of that will become more like
Speaker 1: I'm talking about it now. But you know, imagine a
Speaker 1: world where there are more fund of funds and maybe
Speaker 1: things that are like accelerators for for investors like that.
Speaker 1: To me, I've been trying to make that happen since
Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen. It hasn't been the right time,
Speaker 1: but I think it's I've I've reached the point where
Speaker 1: I could do something like that, and I think showing
Speaker 1: like being able to articulate and show the through line
Speaker 1: for people. Um Olan Douglas is a black man who
Speaker 1: has a hundred and fifty or sixty million dollar fund
Speaker 1: called Motley Fool Ventures, and he does a really great
Speaker 1: job of explaining why black people need to be venture
Speaker 1: backed and adventure uh. He was on my podcast Your
Speaker 1: First Million a few weeks ago. And I think that
Speaker 1: the more um successful Black companies there are, the more
Speaker 1: you're gonna learn about how they got there. What's the
Speaker 1: through line? Right the more television shows and movies and
Speaker 1: games and podcasts that portray black excellence in this way
Speaker 1: and other in this way, the more people will say,
Speaker 1: how did they get from there to there? I want
Speaker 1: to be part of that. I want that. So it's
Speaker 1: not just in um, you know the people you named,
Speaker 1: you just multiply that by ten. So maybe fifty or
Speaker 1: a hundred of us within a room. That's great. But
Speaker 1: we ourselves in the black tech investing community, which is
Speaker 1: not a lot of us, but it's more than people
Speaker 1: think we can fill a room. For sure. We have
Speaker 1: to think about things in an abundance mindset and a
Speaker 1: succession succession mindset of who's after us? Like I said
Speaker 1: recently on Twitter, we will, all of us living will
Speaker 1: one day be the ancestors to somebody. How are we
Speaker 1: going to proceed accordingly? So I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of like, let's make sure that we're good, because a
Speaker 1: lot of us came from circumstances that weren't. But it
Speaker 1: always I always think, you know, I'm always gravitating towards
Speaker 1: the people who are saying, how do how do I
Speaker 1: share it? Like thinking like you said, Candice and Brian,
Speaker 1: like what they're doing in St. Louis and what they've
Speaker 1: been doing since day one in their companies and their
Speaker 1: accelerator and now are they're fun and Cincinnati? Yeah, exactly
Speaker 1: mean all of that. Um, That's what I gravitate towards
Speaker 1: is like, there's enough for all of us. There's plenty.
Speaker 1: There's stuff that's not gonna even be used, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be scraps left over, but we don't have to all
Speaker 1: fight on this corner where there's all this abundance for us.
Speaker 1: There's another quote that that you said. It was people
Speaker 1: who interview me or are you know one insights for me?
Speaker 1: They are always asking me about trends um, and I
Speaker 1: just don't care about trends. Unquote. In context of that,
Speaker 1: I'd like to understand how you think about being genuine
Speaker 1: to what matters to you and how that how that
Speaker 1: might make financial sense from their perspective of providing returns,
Speaker 1: because I would imagine most vcs are looking at trends
Speaker 1: because those have what would be the success indicators. M hmm.
Speaker 1: What do you say to that? Who said it? Was
Speaker 1: it Steve Jobs? Somebody said the best way to predict
Speaker 1: the futures to make It's right that's to me. I mean,
Speaker 1: if I'm looking at trends, I'm too late. I think
Speaker 1: I'm too late if it's trendy. If it's trendy, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm too late. I'm looking at the pulse of things
Speaker 1: early as possible. This is what I think the future
Speaker 1: will look like, and therefore I need to back the
Speaker 1: things that will be prepared for that future rather than
Speaker 1: oh wow, this thing everybody is on, um it must
Speaker 1: be good because everybody's on it. Let's let's hit your ride.
Speaker 1: And I also it's also because I would be disingenuous
Speaker 1: if I disingenuous if I said that I'm some sort
Speaker 1: of you know, financial scholar. You know that I keep
Speaker 1: up with what's going on on Wall Street to Main Street.
Speaker 1: That is, I don't I get off. I often get
Speaker 1: asked to go on like squawk Box and things like that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you don't want me on squad. I
Speaker 1: don't want me because all I'm gonna say is I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. But what I can tell
Speaker 1: you is ask me a question about being there for
Speaker 1: the founder at three o'clock in the morning when they
Speaker 1: don't know if they should be acquired or not, or
Speaker 1: they keep going with their dream and they're worried about
Speaker 1: their board firing them because they didn't take the right answer.
Speaker 1: Ask me what happens when someone passes away and other
Speaker 1: people are reaching out to ask about, you know, other
Speaker 1: types of things that are not important in that moment.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, all of that um so so trends.
Speaker 1: I'm not like saying that. Like I even on my podcast,
Speaker 1: I'll talk about things that are of the day, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of with wonder and whatever. You know, curiosity with
Speaker 1: the curiosity got me here. But I'm not going to
Speaker 1: pretend that I have any sort of expertise in places
Speaker 1: that I don't. I have expertise in certain places. I
Speaker 1: don't know many people who can explain how to build
Speaker 1: a fund the way that I can. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to share that expertise as much as I can for
Speaker 1: other people. But I don't know about certain things that
Speaker 1: are that are trending. And also I'm such a nonfomo person,
Speaker 1: so I don't I mean, it took me months to
Speaker 1: even sign up for Clubhouse. I haven't signed up for Dispo.
Speaker 1: I love everybody having a good time, and just don't
Speaker 1: I want my stream cheese, my daet coke. Come up
Speaker 1: in a hospital, the General Hospital. Oh General Oh, don't
Speaker 1: get me started on General Hospital. I don't. Actually, General
Speaker 1: Hospital is a fantastic television program. Okay, we'll take your
Speaker 1: word for it. Yeah, you're watching that show. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: I've been on the set. This is this is what
Speaker 1: I want. So I missed my forties birthday just in
Speaker 1: October because of COVID. What I want from my forty
Speaker 1: one if you're listening ABC Prospect Park, what I want
Speaker 1: is for Laura Right, who plays Carl Granthos. Yes, give
Speaker 1: me a soap opera slap on camera on set. I
Speaker 1: want to have one line and her she has one
Speaker 1: mine and then she slaps me and we recorded and
Speaker 1: I use it as again some give you your squawk
Speaker 1: bok answer. I have no idea what this so far
Speaker 1: out of the world, like you know, you know, put
Speaker 1: me on, put me on the reel or something. But
Speaker 1: I'd probably heard some feelings at squawk Box, because I would,
Speaker 1: you know, say, most things were silly they were talking about.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate people like Um, Charles Hudson, Monique Waters, Marlin,
Speaker 1: Marlon Nichols, Um Brian, etcetera, etcetera. Because they love the
Speaker 1: to me, they're all like they're all Dwayne Wayne to me,
Speaker 1: you know, like they that got that college swag or
Speaker 1: that intellectual swag to them. And I also make it moves. So, UM,
Speaker 1: I love that you talked about, you know, being there
Speaker 1: for that founder at those crossroads of their at their
Speaker 1: company because each all the story. Um on an interview
Speaker 1: I saw about you wrote keep Going on a white
Speaker 1: board in one of your old apartments and surrounded by
Speaker 1: all of the you know, strategy. It was this big
Speaker 1: words and keep going and you have to force yourself
Speaker 1: to look at that sometimes because it got rough. And
Speaker 1: so how do you know when the path you're on
Speaker 1: is the wrong path? Then? However, because the reason I
Speaker 1: ask is because some people will look at let's say,
Speaker 1: like the Rodney Williams of the world and the Jessica
Speaker 1: Matthews and see that they're building these you know, moonshot companies,
Speaker 1: these hu monkous companies, and we want to we want
Speaker 1: to do that. But our path may be a really
Speaker 1: great lifestyle company. And so but we have this big
Speaker 1: keep going on our dashboard and in our mirror in
Speaker 1: the morning that says, no, keep going, but what we
Speaker 1: really should be doing is focused on our path. Well, Mike,
Speaker 1: keep going was focused on your path. Might keep going
Speaker 1: was not to build injuries at Rowitz Mike or Sequoya
Speaker 1: or a kind of persons. Might keep going was right
Speaker 1: next to stay true to yourself, you know in spirit um,
Speaker 1: so they keep going isn't a keep hustling, keeping you know,
Speaker 1: gott to move, move move, it's don't give up, like
Speaker 1: don't don't stop because what you're doing most people can't understand,
Speaker 1: or what you're doing hasn't paid off for you yet.
Speaker 1: That it is a it kept me going, and it
Speaker 1: still does. You know, my version of it now keeps
Speaker 1: me going of so many days even today like today,
Speaker 1: and you know, relatively even this year, so many days
Speaker 1: I go for days where people are telling me behind
Speaker 1: closed doors, you can't do that. We're not gonna do that.
Speaker 1: You're not going to do that. There's no way, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. And they're also saying like, but if you
Speaker 1: played by our rules, we got you. So might keep
Speaker 1: going is don't give in, don't give up. You know,
Speaker 1: there are some people who should be creating with Jessica
Speaker 1: Matthews is creating, and there are some people who should
Speaker 1: be creating the lifestyle brands that you've described, And there
Speaker 1: are some people who should be employee number seventeen of
Speaker 1: either one, and all three of them have every bit
Speaker 1: of the same respect for me and should feel incredibly
Speaker 1: good about themselves, because my whole thing is like, you
Speaker 1: can only live for yourself at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: no matter what your beliefs are, your belief system about
Speaker 1: spirituality or the afterlife or all that. One thing I
Speaker 1: think most people can agree on is that in this
Speaker 1: body and in this time, this is the only time
Speaker 1: you have, so use it wisely, you know, don't live
Speaker 1: for somebody else. Um. And sometimes it is hard to
Speaker 1: know if you're on the right path because it's so hard,
Speaker 1: and you're like, am I supposed to not be on it?
Speaker 1: Because it's so difficult? You know. Love isn't supposed to
Speaker 1: supposed to hurt, uh, contrary to what most people say.
Speaker 1: Exercise is not supposed to hurt. It's supposed to burn,
Speaker 1: but not be painful. That sort of thing. You know,
Speaker 1: So when do you know? And that's a whole other conversation,
Speaker 1: that's a whole That's why I have to write a
Speaker 1: whole book about it. Black Tech Green Money is a
Speaker 1: production of blackt The Afro Tech on the Black Effect
Speaker 1: podcast Network and I Hired Media. It's produced by Morgan
Speaker 1: Duvon and me Well Lucas, with additional production supported by
Speaker 1: Love Beach and Raveneer. More special thank you to Michael Davis.
Speaker 1: It's the cars of von Jan, you know, like the wine. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's his real name. Learn more about my guests and
Speaker 1: other tech disruptors and innovators at afrotech dot com. Don't
Speaker 1: get your money, Piece of luck.