1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Enjoying Black Tech Green Money. It would mean a lot 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: if you rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts or 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Google Play. The way the algorithm works. The more you 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: rate and say nice things, they'll introduce black tech Green 5 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Money to more people, and more of us need this content. 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: So thank you for rating this podcast five stars. Today. 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Afro Tech twenty nineteen, Oakland, California. Delane Partnell is the 8 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: CEO of Play Versus, the fast growing East sports company 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: taking school districts across the US by storm. He's on 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: stage speaking with Black d CEO Morgan Dubon about team building, hiring, 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: and putting the right people in the right scenes on 12 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: the bus to grow a successful company. From a team perspective, like, 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: I love my team Like, uh, I think I have 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: an incredible collection of people. It's one of the most 15 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: diverse companies you're walk into ever. Um, you know, gender, ethnicity, background, 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: you know so many beautiful shape of people. Uh. And 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: they're all really experienced. They've helped build companies. They all 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: have different backgrounds, um and uh and I'm super fortunate 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: for that. The one thing that that make a company 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: be successful is team. Like the idea literally does not 21 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: matter because the idea involves too right, and it changes 22 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: over time, and and it changes based on the people 23 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: that you work with and you're hiring. So finding the 24 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: best team possible, uh is super important. And the one 25 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: thing that you know I always focused on, especially because 26 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: we raised so much money, was now I have the 27 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: resources to swing you know, basically in the different weight class. 28 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: So I went out and hired the best executives. Like, 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, I was hiring executives whose opportunity was like, 30 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: come joined this really small start up with five people, 31 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: or go be the an executive at Bird when they 32 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: were you know, just raised a billion dollars. But you know, 33 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: I had a lot of confidence, you know, I had 34 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: a really strong vision, and I was just on their 35 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: phone every day. Hey, look, let's talk about this more. 36 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me what issues you know you have, 37 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: What are you contemplating on this? Just like kind of 38 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: work through their problems to convince them to come over, 39 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: and we end up hiring some really incredible people. But uh, 40 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: but yeah, like team hired, hiring really strong people, don't 41 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: prioritize hiring friends, hire the best person for the job, 42 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: and and and don't worry about domain experience. So like 43 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: for us, Like we're focused on the sports, so we 44 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: don't need people who understand the sports. We need people 45 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: who have incredible death at whatever there's job is. Or 46 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: if you're a CFO, I want you to be the 47 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: best CFO possible based on that skill set. And then 48 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: I want you to being an incredible leader. Right, So 49 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: like leadership, ability and skill and then depth in your experience, 50 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: uh and like your domain. I think it's most important 51 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: than actual market experience. I'm Will Lucas and this is 52 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: Black Tech your Money. I'm gonna introduce you to some 53 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: of the biggest names, some of the brightest minds and 54 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: brilliant ideas. If you're black in building or simply using 55 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: tech to secure your bag, this podcast is for you. 56 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: Arlen Hamilton is an investor and the founder and managing 57 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: partner of Backstage Capital, with specializes in investing in women, 58 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: people of color, and LGBT founders. She released their first 59 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: book from Pinkuin Random House entitled It's About Damn Time, 60 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: which is based on her personal journey into entrepreneurship and 61 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: venture capital. I asked Artless, is black people are the 62 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: culture that has driven revenue for so many companies, whether 63 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: it be in social media, music, entertainment. Why don't investors 64 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: just go to the well and fun black people, you know, 65 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: cut out the middleman, same reason they don't do it 66 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: everywhere else. It's the same reason you have. I don't 67 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: know the percentages, but I think of any major sports 68 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: team and footballer the NBA, most of the players are black. 69 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: None of the quarterbacks are black, none of the owners 70 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: are black. None of the dish and the dad are black. 71 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: Same reason you have. Every once in a while, they'll 72 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: they'll throw us a movie or a TV show, but 73 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: who's who are the executives? Who are the showrunners, with 74 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: the exception of a few who have broken ground, who 75 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: get to actually make decisions there it's always us asking 76 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: them for permission, and with the exception of people like 77 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: Tyler Perry and Ava du Vernay, uh Ray, etcetera. So 78 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: when you look at companies, are you trying to predict 79 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: that this company will will make it? Or are you 80 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: trying to ride away? Because I guess what I'm asking 81 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: is some some companies get funded super early, and some 82 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: they got to have that traction for an early stage 83 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: investor to put the money in before they actually have 84 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: a thing. So we invest at backstage. At my firm, 85 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: we invest in two percent about about what we see, 86 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,239 Speaker 1: you know, so just about two percent. Sometimes it's less, 87 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: and so first at the gate. I think every single 88 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: company that we end up investing in I have to 89 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: feel is going to be successful. Um and we are 90 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: notorious for being a first investor in with no other 91 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: person telling us or in to t telling us that's 92 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: what we're supposed to do. And we also have been 93 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: in several deals where it was obvious that they had 94 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: something going and that was going to make it, but 95 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: we always look at it from the lens of we 96 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: believe this can be something. At the same time, I 97 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: think what's also helped us a lot is that even 98 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: though we are our sharky venture capitalists, we're also looking 99 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: at it as these are humans and there are a 100 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: lot of variables that none of us can control the 101 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: company themselves or the vcs, and we're gonna be with 102 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: them through all of the ups and downs because there's 103 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: no way to tell that early if something is going 104 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: to work. You can hope and expect it to and 105 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: you can say, all things being considered, in all things 106 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: being fair, this should have worked. But then things aren't 107 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: fair in the real world. So I look at it as, 108 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: first of all, if you made it to the two percent, 109 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: there was something there. That's not to say that what 110 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: we don't invest in does it shouldn't be invested in. 111 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: It's just that that's what we invest in UM. And 112 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: then second of all, it's how can we do everything 113 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: on our and our power to be additive and help 114 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: them reach their goals and sometimes that also means just 115 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: getting out of their way. You use the phrase that 116 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: you know you have to believe in something like what 117 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: makes you believe a few things. I'm I'm looking at 118 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: things that they've done before, you know, I'm I'm looking 119 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: at what what did you do before you met me? 120 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: You know, before you got into this room or in 121 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: this zoom? How where did you take yourself? And so 122 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: many times, especially with the founders that we're investing in, 123 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: people have incredible stories of kind of eat some nature 124 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: of like getting to where they are UM and and 125 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: there's always something to behold there. So it's about what 126 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: they've accomplished with the very limited resources they may have had, 127 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: or or if they've had more resources than that, have 128 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: they used them wisely? In our opinion. So I look 129 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: at that, I look at our people, uh, paying attention 130 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: to them. Are they do they do they have customers, 131 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: whether that be B two B or B two C, Like, 132 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: do they have something about their product, their service, the 133 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: charisma of of who they are if they're super early, 134 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: there's something there and that's why we rarely invest in 135 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: idea stage. We invest um emotionally at the idea of stage, 136 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: but we do not invest in financially there because there's 137 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: so many companies by underrepresented founders, underestimated founders where at 138 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: the gate it's a it's a about making money, yeah, 139 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: not about like three or four years or we didn't 140 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: make any money and we're gonna be VC backed ten 141 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: million dollars into this. So there's a lot to look at. 142 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: There's a lot of data to look at. But then 143 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: ultimately that early I'm looking at is this person going 144 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: to wake up every day and breathe life into this company. 145 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: You talked about the human element of you know what 146 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: you do, and you have people who I would imagine 147 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: when we were all outside, you know, we'll see you 148 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: at a conference and not a n AFRO tech, but 149 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: see you at a conference in you're they're black, and 150 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: you're the only black VC in the room, and like 151 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: all this got to understand what what I'm what I 152 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: what it took for me to get in this room, 153 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: you know number one, but to get here with a thing. 154 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: And I wonder when they come to you with that 155 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: bleeding heart, you know how much of that? How how 156 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: do you manage that when it's also Look, this is 157 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: about venture capital and it's not just about I love 158 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 1: what you're trying to do. I see that your heart is, 159 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: I see your passion. But this is about dollars and cents. Still, Yeah, 160 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: I couldn't do what I do if I didn't know 161 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: how to separate the two because, like I said, two 162 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: of what we see, so it's stories most likely that 163 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: I like that to to you know the other two. Um, 164 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: I'll say what I've said since the beginning. This isn't 165 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: your black Let me write you a check day. This 166 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: is not what this is. So what I do in 167 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: my career, in my profession as a venture capitalist, as 168 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: an investor, however you want to call it, is I 169 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: make investments based on criteria that I have and instincts 170 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: that I have, and the effort to make money for 171 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: myself for our stakeholders and for our LPs, and what 172 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: I do outside of that and the other six revenue 173 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: streams that I have is if I want to be philanthropic, 174 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: I can be philanthropic all day long, right, So I 175 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: have to separate it. Well, I'm not. You're not coming 176 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: into the room for me the investor and trying to 177 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: get me on a sad story because I have a 178 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: sad story, you know. And I wasn't the first person 179 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: to tell the sad story, you know, that story. I 180 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: was kind of out it and then I kind of 181 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: went on that ride. Um, once I realized that it 182 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: was helping a lot of people get through their current situation. 183 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: But you can't get me in a sad story because 184 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna care like I was car in person. But 185 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: that's not that's not gonna tell me if in five 186 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: years you would have upside for the both of us. 187 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: So um. There have been people who have come in 188 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: told me their story, come in hot, you know, coming 189 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: in hot on an email or something or meeting me 190 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: in person. They say, I know you're gonna at this 191 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: and you're my only shot. Mm hmm. And I think 192 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: what they think that means is that you know, they 193 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: psyched themselves into thinking she's gonna write me a check today. 194 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: Where do I you know, where do I cash it? 195 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: And I have to tell them that we can't afford 196 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: to do that. I think there was a one time 197 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, like your tears aren't gonna 198 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: get you the check. And that's with me or with 199 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: anyone else. Also, if you feel like I'm your only shot, 200 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: something else is wrong, something else is wrong because what 201 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: I don't, what I think a lot of people miss 202 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: with my story is I've raised a few million dollars 203 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: and I've deployed that into two companies with my team. 204 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: But I've also generated millions of dollars in revenue the 205 00:11:54,440 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: past five years. I've also bootstrapped the company to keep 206 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: the lights on every single year and every single month 207 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: without very much outside help. So I know that there's 208 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: no one person, no rich person, who is my only shot. 209 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: You know, I have gotten creative every single year. So 210 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: when people come to me and they have a sad story, 211 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: I feel that paying with them, I relate to them 212 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: in many ways. In some ways that I'll never relate 213 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: to them because they've gone through things I haven't gone through. 214 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: But that does not mean that I'm getting the you know, 215 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: handing my clutch and let me get get my check. 216 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: Can't because we have so much that we have to 217 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: live up to and it won't do anybody any good. 218 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: And I think people don't get this about me like 219 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: I know this. It won't do us any good if 220 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: backstage doesn't do well, that's right. So how do you 221 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: define seat stage to get You know, every every every 222 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: angel investor or VC I talked to defines it a 223 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: little bit of a different way. Check sizes are from 224 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: twenty grand to Yeah. I think it changes about every 225 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: eighteen months. I mean it probably changes every six months 226 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: and then real real change every eighteen months. It just 227 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: I mean six years ago it was different than it 228 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: was than it is today. A year ago is different. Seed. Um, 229 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: I guess the way and not to be not trying 230 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: to be facetious, but it's just whatever whatever is after 231 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: a preseed, okay, Because sometimes I'm like, okay, are you 232 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: are you calling this your preceded or your seed And 233 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: I'll get an answer like it's my bridge to seed 234 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: from precede And We've raised one point seven million in 235 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: pre seed and I'm like, WHOA, Well, how much the 236 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: company do you still on? Are really you on when 237 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: this converge? Because I don't you have a one point 238 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: seven million pre seed and now you're doing a bridge 239 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: to the seed, you know. And sometimes it happens because 240 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: these things roll, they roll, they roll, they roll. You 241 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: have a three year period where people are just raising 242 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: and they haven't um made it to what you would 243 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: think seed is in their in their metrics for one 244 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: reason or another, like they did. They don't have the 245 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: inflection point of having enough in the bank at the 246 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: right time or this, that and the other. Um. But 247 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: I just call it whatever is between presed and series A, 248 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: and there's like four levels to it. There's a seed 249 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: one A and most seeds that I'm seeing right now 250 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: are um they're raising somewhere between two million and five million. 251 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: There are some outliers in either direction and their evaluation 252 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: or I guess your their post is somewhere between uh 253 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: ten and I got you, all right. So most of 254 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: the questions I'm gonna are from the perspective of trying 255 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: to understand how we get more. Arlan Hamilton's out here 256 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: and how we get more Charles Hudson's and Richard Kirby's 257 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: and Canadas, Matthew's Brookins and Brian Brookins and so in 258 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: that from that perspective, from that lens, how meaningful? And 259 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: I've read that you you invest somewhere usually between twenty 260 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: K hundred k typically UM. That might have adjusted to 261 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: your last statement, mum, how meaningful is a twenty five 262 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: thousand dollar check a hundred thousand dollarge check to a 263 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: black founder, particularly LGBTQ founder and underrepresented founder when you're 264 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: when you're evaluating the deal and like what milestones are 265 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: you hoping that that capital gets them too? Is it 266 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: that you're hoping that they can on board more users 267 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: or is it that you're hoping they can raise more money. Typically, 268 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: to follow on to that, because you're the first end, 269 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: everybody's differ. Everybody's a little bit different because at backstage 270 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: we're very flexible. We've talked to our LPs from day 271 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: one to say that we're not chasing unicorns. Um, you know, 272 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: we'll have some, but we're not chasing them. So it 273 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: is very specific to the company what the company needs 274 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: and wants. So to answer the first part of your 275 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: question or to kind of comment on it, we in 276 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: In the past, we have invested twenty five thousand, fifty thousand, 277 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand, and in the last twelve months it's 278 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: been anything between fifty thousand and one point five million, UM. So, 279 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, to answer the question, I have to tell 280 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,119 Speaker 1: you that there's there's layers to it, and that there 281 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: is a plan that's the decades long, and it's a 282 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: decade in the making, so early on, you know, And 283 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: I just had Morgan on my podcast from you know, 284 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: CEO of Bravity and Afrotech, and she said early on 285 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: she didn't quite get it, and I understood that, and 286 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: we had talked about that in the past. You have 287 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: to walk to run or in some cases walk to fly, 288 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: and really got to transport ourselves back to two thousand fourteen. 289 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: I mean, when I think about two thousand and fifteen, 290 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: the summer of Stephanie Lambkin, nobody would check for her, 291 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: Nobody would check for Juel Burke's two thousand fifteen. I 292 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: was around during the or during the Bravity round during 293 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: two fifteen. So what I was thinking back then was 294 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: I'm homeless, literally homeless. I literally don't know what I'm 295 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: gonna eat next, and I'm trying to get millionaires and 296 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: billionaires to listen to me, to understand that black and 297 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: brown and women founders and LGBTQ founders, they're not doing 298 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: anybody any charity backing them. They're missing out right. That's 299 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: the plainest way I can see it right now. So 300 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: I had, I said, one day, I woke up and 301 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: I'm like, they're not gonna listen to because they're not 302 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: listening to me, but they have to listen to me 303 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: if I'm on that cap table mm hm. And so 304 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: I said, I don't know what it's gonna take. So 305 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: I talked to people like Sam altmanute Y Combinator and 306 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: his brother Jack. I talked to Michael Saibel. I talked 307 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: to a few people, Brad Faeld, and I said, what's 308 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: that number, Like, what's the number that I can be taken? Seriously? 309 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: They said, listen, we do twenty five tho dollar checks. 310 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: You know, when Mark Andreson invested in in Backstage the Fund, 311 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: and and Chris Soccer and all these people, everybody was like, oh, 312 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: you're set, these are billionaires, and I'm like, no, no, 313 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: you don't understand. They're doing fifty thou dollar checks right. 314 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: So I said, if they are doing that, if I 315 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: can get to twenty five thousand, because they're doing that, 316 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: then they have to talk to me, and then they 317 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: have to listen, and then I can put the spotlight 318 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: on these founders. And so that was I when I'm 319 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: sitting on the floor of the airport and I'm watching 320 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: people go by, and I'm hungry, and I'm sad and pathetic, 321 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,719 Speaker 1: and the only way i can keep myself from crying 322 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: myself into non existence, it's to strategize. I'm saying, Okay, 323 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: I'm gonna invest in brand speaking of Brian. Brian Bracken 324 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: was my first investment. I'm going to invest in Brian, 325 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: gonna invest in Jewel, I'm going to invest in Morgan, 326 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to invest in Shina. You know, I'm gonna 327 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: do this when I can, and it's gonna be twenty 328 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 1: five dollars. So the first time I had six, when 329 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: I had six investments of dollars, I got my first 330 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: real piece of press in like a legal um paper 331 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: made a lot of noise, and it wasn't about it 332 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: was it was about like it was. If I look 333 00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: back on it now, I'd probably laugh at it. Because 334 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: it'd be like, can you imagine that they found six 335 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: black founders? Can you imagine this wasn't two fifteen or sixteen. 336 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: So anyway, when I look at numbers, i'm people will 337 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: will ask me to be an advisor and take advisor 338 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: shares for no money just to be around them, you 339 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And so I'm not looking at 340 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: the amount. I'm looking at what do we know about 341 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: ourselves at backstage, about the work that we put in 342 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: every single day for a decade, day in day out. 343 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: How many times have we been somebody's first call and 344 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: how many calls have we made on behalf of other people? 345 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: And so all of it is to push, to catalyze, 346 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: to to to say what others cannot say for you know, 347 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: fear of losing something. All of that is wrapped up 348 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: in check and guess what we might be writing dollar 349 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: checks one day and the exact same reason. Becoming a 350 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 1: Vinci capitalist. There's a lot like raising money for your startup, 351 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: but instead of pitching your which or your software, you're 352 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: alternatively trying to engage investors into the idea that you 353 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: know how to find great deals. You've got the contacts, 354 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: the inside track, you're the plug. So while pitching a 355 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: startup as much ado about putting together a dope ten 356 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: pages deck, what is it pitch like when you're putting 357 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: your hat into the ring to be a bona fide investor, 358 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: Arlen speaks, Sonny, it's funny that a lot has changed 359 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: the last five years, but a lot hasn't when it 360 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: comes to the pitch and when it comes to the reaction. Uh, 361 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: it's still difficult for us to raise from from institutionals 362 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: and from certain groups. But the pitch has always been 363 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: we are under we're under we're underrepresented, so we're underestimated. 364 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: If we have done so much us When I say we, 365 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: I mean black founders first and almost if we have 366 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: done so much with so little, imagine what you could do, 367 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: what they could do with more, what we could do 368 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: with more. And it's always been, even even when it 369 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: meant losing out of money, it's always been this is 370 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: not philanthropic, This is not for your heart streams. This 371 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: is not for you to take this off of your 372 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: good deeds for the year. This is there is a 373 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: wave coming and you can either be crushed by it 374 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: or you can ride it. And we see it earlier 375 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: than a lot of people are seeing it. So we 376 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: were saying this, and I was saying this personally in 377 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve and thirteen and fourteen outside of 378 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley. So yes, of course there were many who 379 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: are now friends, like black investors. That was never a question. Uh, 380 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: And I correct people when somebody says I'm the first 381 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: something there other. But what I saw from Afar was 382 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: that there was a lot to lose for those black 383 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: investors if they spoke up for being real. And I 384 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: didn't have that to lose. I was already at bottom, 385 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: so I I could go out there and scream and 386 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: run around and say crazy things and people could hear it. Um. 387 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: So when it comes to today, like you know, with 388 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: the Republic raise, we just you know, with this crowd 389 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: fund raise for the backstage entity to have to share 390 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: an upside with us, which is at Republic dot co 391 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: slash backstage, the pitch is the same. As you know, 392 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: We've been saying this for years. I think it's undeniable 393 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: now that black and brown founders, women founders, LGBTQ founders 394 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: were always onto something. We're always doing something will do 395 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: without us, We'll do without your investor money, My investment 396 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: money will make away with or without us. Don't you 397 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,479 Speaker 1: want to be with them? We want to. And because 398 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: we've said that and been about been about that for 399 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: so long, we have proprietary access not only two deals, 400 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: because we do have an incredible amount of deal flow 401 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: in the thousands per year, but also in the terms 402 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: and in the proximity to the founder, not just in 403 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: this deal, not in just as this round. But as 404 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: you get more and more downstream and more strategic, money 405 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: becomes really really a commodity more so than it already is. 406 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: And it comes down to relationships, and it comes down 407 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: to integrity, and it comes down to loyalty and respect 408 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: and trust. And when you put me, you know, toe 409 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: to toe with somebody when it comes to those things, 410 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have the most money in the room, 411 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: but I'm going to win on some cases and that 412 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: in those arenas. And so backing this jockey me particular 413 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: backstage in general, UH becomes more and more strategic the 414 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: further downstream we go. So the first five years may 415 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: not have made much sense to people because they're like 416 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: dollars until more than a companies, what are they doing? 417 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: Are they saturating. Is it is a quality high? I 418 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: mean so many. Even yesterday somebody tweeted me that I'm 419 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 1: trash and portfolios trash and whatever. I'm gonna be crying 420 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: all the way to the bank, knowing what I know 421 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: about our portfolio and some of the things that are happening. 422 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: Go ahead, go it. Then, So who do I need 423 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: to be to be a VC? To be a VC, 424 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: you know venture capital? Um. I was just in tech 425 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: Crunch about this because I spoke a tech Crunch and 426 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: they put it into an article. I'm not big on 427 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: VC itself, and that's why I say you can call 428 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: me a venture capitalist, can come and investor whatever you 429 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: want to call me. To be a VC, I think 430 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: you can be anyone who sees the future, sees what 431 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: the future is gonna look like in their mind's eye. 432 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: You don't have to go to have gone to any 433 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: certain school to be a good VC. You don't have 434 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: to go know any certain person. I do think you 435 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: need to have a great deal of empathy for founders, 436 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: whether that's because you are operating yourself, you've had that experience, 437 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: you've worked on a company, or you've just been surrounded 438 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: by that and and for some reason, um, you can 439 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,479 Speaker 1: you can speak to that because that's the majority of 440 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: your job, is that management is Somebody asked me what 441 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: a talent wrangler is because I used to be a 442 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: talent wrangler for TV shows and music and that's what 443 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: we're doing here. You know, I'm wrangling talent left and 444 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: right at backstage. So I think you need to have 445 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: that empathy and you there need there's a discretion that's 446 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: definitely necessary. You're gonna learn a lot of uh proprietary information, 447 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: and you're gonna be in situations, you know, over time 448 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: where something you know could affect something else and it 449 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: could also make you wealthy. But you're skirting the line 450 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 1: of either screwing someone over or as bad as you know, 451 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: insider trading or whatever. And you have you know, there 452 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are messy at some 453 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: parts in their lives and they have to kind of 454 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: clean that up before they can jump into this arena. 455 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: It is. It is high stakes every single day. Um. 456 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: But if you could see the future and you have 457 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: a very clear view of what that looks like, and 458 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: there are some founders either now existing or the ones 459 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: that you know will be there, to catch you. Um, 460 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: then I think I want to see you deploying capital. 461 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: There are many ways to do the same thing I'm 462 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: doing to affect change that do not involve becoming a 463 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 1: venture capitalists and playing this game, because this game is 464 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: not that great. Uh So I would prefer you did that. 465 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: I prefer you start a company. I prefer you, uh 466 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: were a backer and angel investor, all those things. But 467 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: if you are a few, you know, the few people 468 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: who want to be venture capitalists. Um, it doesn't matter 469 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: what school you went to, who you know, who your 470 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: parents are. It just matters what what kind of fingerprint 471 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: and you can leave in the on the on the world. 472 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: It's a quote I found from you that I love. 473 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: It says, I didn't come here to get your scrap. 474 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: I didn't come here to get your pity or your charity. 475 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: I came here to go toe to toe with you, 476 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: head to head with you, and to take it all. Um. 477 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: I imagine a world where um, black people dominate investing, 478 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: right like we dominate other verticals culture specifically, How do 479 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: we then get more eligible black And what I mean 480 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: by eligible was what you said earlier, Like they have 481 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: the loyalty, they have the trust that sort of thing. 482 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: How do we get more of those black people to 483 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: consider roles in investing? In your opinion, oh, I mean 484 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: in my experience, UM, there's been a lot of interest 485 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: because people just here the idea of being an investor 486 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: and they think that makes you know, I get to 487 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: work with money like that's interesting to me. I get 488 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: to make those decisions. UM. Personally, what I what I 489 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,239 Speaker 1: know the next decade of my life will be is 490 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: in addition to direct investments in companies the same way 491 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: I just spent the last decade working on that, UM, 492 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: the next decade will be in addition to that, is 493 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: me backing more and more fund managers who are emerging 494 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: because to me, that's really where things get interesting, the 495 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: catalyzing and the impact you have there. And I don't 496 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: just mean like social impact, I mean just impact on 497 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: the world. Uh. Legacy, I guess is incredible there because 498 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: it's tenfold in any kind of calculation. UM. So I 499 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: think I know that. That's where I've piloted this idea 500 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: with about a dozen funds led by underrepresented underestimated emerging 501 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: managers UM, not exclusively, but mainly that and for the 502 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: past two years or so and that'll probably look like 503 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: a hundred funds over the next decade and kind of 504 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: spread the not only the money but the information that 505 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: I have. I'm always counseling about information all day long, 506 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: so I think some of that will become more like 507 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm talking about it now. But you know, imagine a 508 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: world where there are more fund of funds and maybe 509 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: things that are like accelerators for for investors like that. 510 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: To me, I've been trying to make that happen since 511 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen. It hasn't been the right time, 512 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: but I think it's I've I've reached the point where 513 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,719 Speaker 1: I could do something like that, and I think showing 514 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: like being able to articulate and show the through line 515 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: for people. Um Olan Douglas is a black man who 516 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: has a hundred and fifty or sixty million dollar fund 517 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: called Motley Fool Ventures, and he does a really great 518 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: job of explaining why black people need to be venture 519 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: backed and adventure uh. He was on my podcast Your 520 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: First Million a few weeks ago. And I think that 521 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: the more um successful Black companies there are, the more 522 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna learn about how they got there. What's the 523 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: through line? Right the more television shows and movies and 524 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: games and podcasts that portray black excellence in this way 525 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: and other in this way, the more people will say, 526 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: how did they get from there to there? I want 527 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: to be part of that. I want that. So it's 528 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: not just in um, you know the people you named, 529 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: you just multiply that by ten. So maybe fifty or 530 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: a hundred of us within a room. That's great. But 531 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: we ourselves in the black tech investing community, which is 532 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: not a lot of us, but it's more than people 533 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: think we can fill a room. For sure. We have 534 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: to think about things in an abundance mindset and a 535 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: succession succession mindset of who's after us? Like I said 536 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: recently on Twitter, we will, all of us living will 537 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: one day be the ancestors to somebody. How are we 538 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: going to proceed accordingly? So I think there's a lot 539 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: of like, let's make sure that we're good, because a 540 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: lot of us came from circumstances that weren't. But it 541 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: always I always think, you know, I'm always gravitating towards 542 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: the people who are saying, how do how do I 543 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: share it? Like thinking like you said, Candice and Brian, 544 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: like what they're doing in St. Louis and what they've 545 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: been doing since day one in their companies and their 546 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: accelerator and now are they're fun and Cincinnati? Yeah, exactly 547 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: mean all of that. Um, That's what I gravitate towards 548 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: is like, there's enough for all of us. There's plenty. 549 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: There's stuff that's not gonna even be used, there's gonna 550 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: be scraps left over, but we don't have to all 551 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: fight on this corner where there's all this abundance for us. 552 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: There's another quote that that you said. It was people 553 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: who interview me or are you know one insights for me? 554 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: They are always asking me about trends um, and I 555 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: just don't care about trends. Unquote. In context of that, 556 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: I'd like to understand how you think about being genuine 557 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: to what matters to you and how that how that 558 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: might make financial sense from their perspective of providing returns, 559 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: because I would imagine most vcs are looking at trends 560 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: because those have what would be the success indicators. M hmm. 561 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: What do you say to that? Who said it? Was 562 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: it Steve Jobs? Somebody said the best way to predict 563 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: the futures to make It's right that's to me. I mean, 564 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: if I'm looking at trends, I'm too late. I think 565 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm too late if it's trendy. If it's trendy, you know, 566 00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: I'm too late. I'm looking at the pulse of things 567 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: early as possible. This is what I think the future 568 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: will look like, and therefore I need to back the 569 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: things that will be prepared for that future rather than 570 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: oh wow, this thing everybody is on, um it must 571 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,919 Speaker 1: be good because everybody's on it. Let's let's hit your ride. 572 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 1: And I also it's also because I would be disingenuous 573 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: if I disingenuous if I said that I'm some sort 574 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: of you know, financial scholar. You know that I keep 575 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: up with what's going on on Wall Street to Main Street. 576 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: That is, I don't I get off. I often get 577 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: asked to go on like squawk Box and things like that, 578 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you don't want me on squad. I 579 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: don't want me because all I'm gonna say is I 580 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. But what I can tell 581 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: you is ask me a question about being there for 582 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: the founder at three o'clock in the morning when they 583 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: don't know if they should be acquired or not, or 584 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: they keep going with their dream and they're worried about 585 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: their board firing them because they didn't take the right answer. 586 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: Ask me what happens when someone passes away and other 587 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: people are reaching out to ask about, you know, other 588 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: types of things that are not important in that moment. 589 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: In my opinion, all of that um so so trends. 590 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: I'm not like saying that. Like I even on my podcast, 591 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: I'll talk about things that are of the day, you know, 592 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: kind of with wonder and whatever. You know, curiosity with 593 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: the curiosity got me here. But I'm not going to 594 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 1: pretend that I have any sort of expertise in places 595 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: that I don't. I have expertise in certain places. I 596 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,879 Speaker 1: don't know many people who can explain how to build 597 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: a fund the way that I can. So I'm going 598 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: to share that expertise as much as I can for 599 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: other people. But I don't know about certain things that 600 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: are that are trending. And also I'm such a nonfomo person, 601 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: so I don't I mean, it took me months to 602 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: even sign up for Clubhouse. I haven't signed up for Dispo. 603 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: I love everybody having a good time, and just don't 604 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: I want my stream cheese, my daet coke. Come up 605 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: in a hospital, the General Hospital. Oh General Oh, don't 606 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: get me started on General Hospital. I don't. Actually, General 607 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: Hospital is a fantastic television program. Okay, we'll take your 608 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: word for it. Yeah, you're watching that show. It's beautiful. 609 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: I've been on the set. This is this is what 610 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: I want. So I missed my forties birthday just in 611 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: October because of COVID. What I want from my forty 612 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: one if you're listening ABC Prospect Park, what I want 613 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: is for Laura Right, who plays Carl Granthos. Yes, give 614 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: me a soap opera slap on camera on set. I 615 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: want to have one line and her she has one 616 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: mine and then she slaps me and we recorded and 617 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: I use it as again some give you your squawk 618 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: bok answer. I have no idea what this so far 619 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: out of the world, like you know, you know, put 620 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: me on, put me on the reel or something. But 621 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,240 Speaker 1: I'd probably heard some feelings at squawk Box, because I would, 622 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: you know, say, most things were silly they were talking about. 623 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: I really appreciate people like Um, Charles Hudson, Monique Waters, Marlin, 624 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: Marlon Nichols, Um Brian, etcetera, etcetera. Because they love the 625 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: to me, they're all like they're all Dwayne Wayne to me, 626 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, like they that got that college swag or 627 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: that intellectual swag to them. And I also make it moves. So, UM, 628 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: I love that you talked about, you know, being there 629 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: for that founder at those crossroads of their at their 630 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: company because each all the story. Um on an interview 631 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: I saw about you wrote keep Going on a white 632 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: board in one of your old apartments and surrounded by 633 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: all of the you know, strategy. It was this big 634 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: words and keep going and you have to force yourself 635 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: to look at that sometimes because it got rough. And 636 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: so how do you know when the path you're on 637 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: is the wrong path? Then? However, because the reason I 638 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: ask is because some people will look at let's say, 639 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: like the Rodney Williams of the world and the Jessica 640 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: Matthews and see that they're building these you know, moonshot companies, 641 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,919 Speaker 1: these hu monkous companies, and we want to we want 642 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: to do that. But our path may be a really 643 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: great lifestyle company. And so but we have this big 644 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: keep going on our dashboard and in our mirror in 645 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: the morning that says, no, keep going, but what we 646 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: really should be doing is focused on our path. Well, Mike, 647 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: keep going was focused on your path. Might keep going 648 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: was not to build injuries at Rowitz Mike or Sequoya 649 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: or a kind of persons. Might keep going was right 650 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: next to stay true to yourself, you know in spirit um, 651 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: so they keep going isn't a keep hustling, keeping you know, 652 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: gott to move, move move, it's don't give up, like 653 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: don't don't stop because what you're doing most people can't understand, 654 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,479 Speaker 1: or what you're doing hasn't paid off for you yet. 655 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: That it is a it kept me going, and it 656 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: still does. You know, my version of it now keeps 657 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 1: me going of so many days even today like today, 658 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:51,720 Speaker 1: and you know, relatively even this year, so many days 659 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: I go for days where people are telling me behind 660 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: closed doors, you can't do that. We're not gonna do that. 661 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: You're not going to do that. There's no way, no, no, no, 662 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: no no. And they're also saying like, but if you 663 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: played by our rules, we got you. So might keep 664 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: going is don't give in, don't give up. You know, 665 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: there are some people who should be creating with Jessica 666 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: Matthews is creating, and there are some people who should 667 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: be creating the lifestyle brands that you've described, And there 668 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: are some people who should be employee number seventeen of 669 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: either one, and all three of them have every bit 670 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: of the same respect for me and should feel incredibly 671 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: good about themselves, because my whole thing is like, you 672 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 1: can only live for yourself at the end of the day, 673 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: no matter what your beliefs are, your belief system about 674 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: spirituality or the afterlife or all that. One thing I 675 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,439 Speaker 1: think most people can agree on is that in this 676 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: body and in this time, this is the only time 677 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: you have, so use it wisely, you know, don't live 678 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: for somebody else. Um. And sometimes it is hard to 679 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: know if you're on the right path because it's so hard, 680 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: and you're like, am I supposed to not be on it? 681 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: Because it's so difficult? You know. Love isn't supposed to 682 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,359 Speaker 1: supposed to hurt, uh, contrary to what most people say. 683 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: Exercise is not supposed to hurt. It's supposed to burn, 684 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: but not be painful. That sort of thing. You know, 685 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: So when do you know? And that's a whole other conversation, 686 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: that's a whole That's why I have to write a 687 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: whole book about it. Black Tech Green Money is a 688 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: production of blackt The Afro Tech on the Black Effect 689 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: podcast Network and I Hired Media. It's produced by Morgan 690 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: Duvon and me Well Lucas, with additional production supported by 691 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 1: Love Beach and Raveneer. More special thank you to Michael Davis. 692 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: It's the cars of von Jan, you know, like the wine. Yes, 693 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: that's his real name. Learn more about my guests and 694 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: other tech disruptors and innovators at afrotech dot com. Don't 695 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: get your money, Piece of luck.