WEBVTT - Christopher Cross 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.880 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Lefsnets Podcast. My 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:17.400 guest today is that one and only Christopher Cross. Chris, 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:19.480 you recently met the Pope. 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:20.320 Tell me about that. 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.560 Well, you know, Bob, it was, I said, I just 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.720 did a post yesterday about it. And I met a 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.080 lot of famous people in my life have been very lucky, 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.600 you know, heroes and presidents and people like that. But 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.040 I've got to say meeting his holiness was a think 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:41.560 to itself. He's a very chrismatic person and I love 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:46.559 his outlook on justice and you know, his social you 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.120 know outlook, and so I was very excited to meet him, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.519 and he was just amazing just to be in his presence. 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.440 And I bought a Rosemary at the gift shop. My 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.400 girlfriend bought me rose mey. He blessed it and I 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.840 don't know, He's a very special person. So that was 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:00.560 very exciting. 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.400 Well, give us some of the backstory. How did this happen? 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.160 Well, they asked me to do this. They do it 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.120 Christmas show over year in Italy. They filmed on December sixteenth, 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:11.119 then then it's aired Christmas Eve all over Italy. It's 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.720 a big deal. It has it's done with the Vatican 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.480 in conjuncture with a charity that benefits girls sincere Leone. 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.200 So uh, normal, I've done a lot of those kind 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:21.759 of things. So I'm like, well, I don't know if 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:23.520 I want to do that. It's for the orchestra, it's 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.440 a big show. But then they said, well, there won 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.200 a lot of money and everything. But they said, but 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.360 there's a you know, there's a perk. You get to 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.480 have an audience with Pope. I said, no, wait, okay, 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.920 So that was because it wasn't being about the show. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.160 I've done a lot of those kind of things, so 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:41.840 that was really a deciding factor to do it, because 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.399 you know, how often do you get to meet the pope. 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.400 So he's eighty seven now and so, and I like 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.680 him as a pope as popes go, and so it was. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.200 It was really really an amazing experience. I feel I'm 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:57.920 still kind of walking on air a little bit from it. 0:01:58.440 --> 0:01:59.560 Now, are you Catholic? 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.120 I was raised Catholic, Bob, certainly, I'm retired now, but 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.080 but you know, you never can completely retire from the 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:10.880 devil and the fear and all the stuff they teach you. 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.240 But but no, I'm kind of retired, but you know, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.000 you're a doctrinated into that philosophy and that religion, so 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.919 it's it's there. But so I'm you know, I was 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.280 raised Catholic. So but I one of the bishops there 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:25.920 said well, how can we bring you back? You know, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.880 and I said, well, you know, but no, So I 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:30.640 was raised Catholic, so I certainly know a lot about 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.960 the history tradition of the Catholic Church. And I you know, 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:36.760 I went away from it and not a big fan 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.359 of a lot of things about it. But as I said, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.000 he seems like he's so gentle and wonderful, and he 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:43.600 seems to be trying very hard to get women in 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.520 the church, and and it'd be inclusive with LGBTQ and 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.120 all that, and I applaud that. So I think it's great. 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.440 Okay, you do the show. How do you meet him? 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.200 What do you do? What's the procedure to actually get 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:58.280 one on one with him? 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.240 Well, you go to the Vatican and you're brought in. 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:04.919 You know, it looks like sort of likes I could 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.880 a you know TV show and black cars and you know, 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:10.760 pulling into the Vatican, the Swiss guards are there, and 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.560 you go into the Vatican where people typically don't go. 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.480 We went through this beautiful garden it was actually a graveyard, 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.000 and we went into this really beautiful room that held 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.440 maybe one hundred people because there were some sponsors and 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:23.960 all the artists that were on the show got to 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:28.000 meet him as well, and theyve video and you know, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.320 they had the whole thing figured out, and he came. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.320 You know, we waited for a bit and His Holiness 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.040 came in and he sat in a big chair and 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:37.880 I was in the front row, right across from him, 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.320 and he read a statement in Italian which I didn't understand, 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:42.240 which had to do with the event and just thanking 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.560 the artists. And then one by one we went up 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.880 and you introduced ourselves and had a moment with him. 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:50.760 I'm not going to say we hung out in a conversation, 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:55.440 but you know, I thanked him for his work, and 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.280 I asked him if he would, you know, bless my Rosary, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:00.760 and he did something kind of cool. Normally, the bishop 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:02.440 was telling me he'll just do the sign of the Cross, 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.160 but he covered my hand with his hand to bless 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.000 my Rosary. And the bishop later told me that's kind 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:09.320 of cool that he doesn't do that all the time, 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.960 so but it was it was brief. You know, It's 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:14.360 not like I said, we didn't hang out and have 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:18.719 a beer, but just he has a wonderful smile and 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:22.080 his way about him is just he's really really a 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.479 you know, pretty special person. Obviously don't get to be 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.520 the Pope without it, but I don't know, it's just 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.840 one of those things. My girlfriend got to meet him too, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.360 and she said, you know, I never thought I would 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:36.200 get to meet the Pope. So yeah, it was. And 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.039 the show was wonderful. There were a lot of great artists, 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:39.760 all that kind of thing, and I got to do 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.640 I played sailing, but then they wanted me to put 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.080 a traditional Christmas song, but I asked if I could 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.159 do a song that Rob Muir and I wrote called 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:50.960 A Dream of Peace at Christmas Time that has a 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.440 children's choir, And it took a little wrangling, but the 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:56.440 Vatican agreed and so I closed the show with that, 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.520 and that was very nice. And I think it's because 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.159 it's about, you know, a dream of peace, and with 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:03.840 the war in Ukraine and the Goaza situation, I think 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.640 Pope Vatican thought it was a good message, you know. 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.279 Okay, I mean, this is literally the apotheosis or the 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:15.159 pope theosis in terms of people you could meet. But 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.000 I gotta ask in terms of your career. You mentioned 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.040 you met a lot of famous people. Who else is 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:22.520 in the upper echelon? 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:32.240 Uh? Well, Joni Uh, Joni Mitchell obviously a huge influence. 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:36.440 That was a McCartney, you know, meeting Paul, knowing him 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:37.880 a little bit, you know, I do know, I'm want 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:42.360 to see him when I see him. Uh, Brian Wilson, certainly, 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:48.279 Carl Wilson, because there's such huge influences on me. People 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.480 like I would say Randy Newman is right up there, 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.040 two in the top five. You know, I've gotten old 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:55.760 Rady cart Well. But you know, those these people that 0:05:55.800 --> 0:06:00.400 were just you know, on some other planet me when 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.799 I was starting out music and just following and learning 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.240 from them and then later to get to meet them 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:09.120 or know them or whatever. Yeah, those people, I'd say, Randy, Jony, Paul, 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.800 you know, never met Tom Waits, but I'd like to. 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:17.960 But anyway, Yeah, so I didn't get to meet John unfortunately, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:20.839 but I've kind of read there were some books that 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.520 came out about John, and apparently he liked my song Sailing. 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:29.080 Apparently he liked it, so I act Jack asked Jack Douglas, 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.479 who produced Double Fantasy. I said, so, if John had lived, 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.279 I'd be hanging out with him at the Dakota and 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.760 Jack said, and Jack said, yeah, he really dug your 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.080 song and he definitely would have hedge over. And so 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.600 I'm thinking, you know, but anyway, so Barta, you know, 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:47.880 when you meet people at heroes like Brian and people 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.560 like that, it's a it's a out of body experience 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:53.440 at first, and then of course, you know, then you 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:55.680 spend a bit over time with him, but you never 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.440 really get completely you know, when I see McCarthy or 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:00.600 write or something like that, you never completely get used 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:04.000 to it, you know, because there they are, you. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:08.640 Know, okay, being a musician with this level of success, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.120 you meet them, you're in a circumstance to meet them. 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.840 Like with Joni Mitchell, do you talk music with her 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.800 or just hey you're a great guy, I'm a great woman. 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:25.680 Yeah. I learned, uh, I learned pretty early on Bob that, 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:32.080 you know, people of this caliber, trying to explain how 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.440 they do what they do is pretty it's a little 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.440 bit on a tiny little way, I know, how it is. 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.840 It's very hard to do to explain like your process 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:44.920 and how you do that. So I learned pretty quickly. Two. 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.880 You know, don't go there. Don't ask those questions because 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:50.680 they've been asking them a million times and they kind 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.800 of don't know what to say other than that, you know, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.280 you're either Lebron James or you're not. You know you're 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.600 Tiger Woodsy, you're not, You're Joni Mitchell, you're not. So No, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.120 I don't talk about music, which is I talk about 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:08.840 books or you know, other areas of art, like Joni would. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:11.840 She gave me a book of An Sexton's poems to 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.400 read for inspiration, that sort of thing. But no, I 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.480 would never just directly ask anybody. Randy Newman told me 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.600 once I asked him about songwriting came up and Randy said, 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:22.880 I don't care if I get any better, as long 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.560 as it I'll get any worse, which is so Randy. 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.840 But so no, I tend to not try to ask 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:35.360 about process because you know, most people like that. I 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.680 feel like it's sort of beamed from outer space and 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.640 you're just the receptacle and how it actually happens. Like 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.760 you saw the Get Back movie I mean, you know, 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.800 they're coming up with get Back just sort of improvisationally 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:48.360 in the studio, and that's sort of how it is. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.240 You know, it just sort of happens and you look 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.080 around the room and go, wow, what was that? So? 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:56.480 Okay, where do you live now? 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.679 I live in Austin, Texas. I'm from Santa Antonio, Texas, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.840 about note miles south, but I live in Austin and 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:05.760 I also have an apartment in Manheat. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.720 Okay, So you're in Austin, which is a noted music town, 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.880 although it's burgeoning and the musicians are being squeezed out. 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.280 Are you integrated into the music community there or it's 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:18.640 more like this is where you live. 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:21.840 It's really where I live. I'll pay of the truth 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:27.080 because you know, throughout my career here, early on, I 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.839 played cover bands and fraternity parties and that sort of 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.280 thing to make a living. I chose like Stevie Ray. 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.160 Stevee used to go play at the Roman for fifty 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:38.319 bucks and play his play for his soul, you know I, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:40.880 which I think is fantastic. I don't have that courage. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.560 I played clubs and fraternities, playing you know, bos Gua 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.640 Exton's on the radio to make money, and then I 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.439 kept my phone music to the side, just the demos 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:55.520 and that sort of thing. But also, you know, my 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.439 music's more of a California sound. South the California sound. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.880 It's more harmonic. It's not typical of sort of the 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.040 the style of music that people think of in Austin, 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:11.200 the sort of rock blues, country, uh thing. So I 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.439 wouldn't say that I really identified too much with the 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.680 Austin sound, you know, per se, because I was always 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:22.520 my brand was always in California with Brian. But interesting 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.600 trying to tell you, I h when I was doing 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:32.240 demos in the studio, I sent I needed to send 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.040 a demo. So I looked in Billboard magazine, but I 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.200 didn't know anything about an R or any of that stuff. 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.079 I looked in Billboard magazine and I really loved Warner Brothers. 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.480 They had Randy, they had Joni, they had Hindricks, they 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:47.320 had a lot of artists that I really like, Van Morrison. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:49.400 So I thought I'd like to be on Warner Brothers. 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.360 So I looked at the billboard. It said Moe Austin 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.080 share of the board, who I you know, I think 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.800 miss him so much. It was an incredible man. Uh so, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.440 so I can't get to him. But I knew nothing 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.840 about an R or anything like that. So I looked 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.920 below his name and this game David Berson, assistant to 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:08.400 Most And I said, okay, well I could send him 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.959 my tape. It turns out David is an administrative he 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.360 does anything to do with an R, but he'd never 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.720 gotten a tape in the mail. And he took the 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.360 tape and he made Lendy Warner Cuz head of man 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.400 or listen to it. And that's how the whole they 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.400 got started. And Lenny told me later, had you just 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.160 submitted to tape, Dan R, we would have stuff in 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:25.840 an envelope sent it back to you because we weren't 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:28.600 really accepting submissions. But you sent it to the wrong guy, 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.679 and that's how we got started talking. So it's serendipity, 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:33.160 how about that? 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.880 Okay, before we leave this topic, I just have to 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:40.400 ask non musicians that you've met in addition to the pope. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.520 Boy, non musicians mean somebody I've met that I, uh, 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:52.280 I was really excited to meet that weren't musicians. Hmm, boy, 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:57.920 I that's terrible that no one comes to mind. They 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:02.640 should you know, my world is so it's so singular, 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:04.160 you know, that's what where I. 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.040 Well, let me ask you back in the day, did 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.760 you play for politicians? What was that experience? 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:14.719 Like, well, I, I mean watching my album came out 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.400 and I was got well known. I did go to 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.360 the White House and I played for Reagan at the 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.559 Ford's Theater. There was a thing where you every year 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.360 they did a benefit to refurbish Ford's Theater and I 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:27.680 was on a bill with some pretty wonderful George Benson 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:29.000 was on the bill, and he and I kind of 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.240 connected because we're sort of musicians about like Lena Horror 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.240 and all these great people were on it. And I 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.280 can't say that I voted for Reagan, but you know, 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.000 still an opportunity to go to the White House and 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.679 meet the president and all that. So that was pretty 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.760 cool going to the White House. I did get to 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.679 meet him. I did get to meet Bill Clinton at 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.120 a small event at Carol King's house that Carol had 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:48.800 and I went and got to meet Clinton, who I 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.200 did vote for. So that was pretty great. But so 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.640 I've got a few politicians. But you know, I'm going 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.120 to be mad at myself later when I can't think 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.440 of it as far that's okay, other genre, but you know, 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.839 you get I'm so singularly passionate to the music, think 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.040 Bob that it's like, I don't know, I'm kind of boring. 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:07.160 That's all I do. That's all I've ever done, you know, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.200 dropped out of high school, just went for it. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:16.319 Okay, Just now you're talking about politicians. Do you play privates? No, 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.800 that seems like a definitive decision. Tell me about that. 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.600 Well, the only artist I've heard that absolutely does not 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.760 is so Collins phil apparently just I ever met him, 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.080 but he just won't do it. I have in my past, 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.640 I've played him, but I don't anymore. And the reason is, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.719 you know, I want to play for fans who've come 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.599 to a theater and bought a ticket to see me, 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:48.199 and hopefully they've had some of them in the audience 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.200 are familiar with my entire catalog and aren't just there 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.480 to Arthur's team. But still they came with the explicit 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.920 purpose of seeing me. It's not because it's some insurance 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:58.559 company and they've got a bunch of money to pay 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.800 a bunch of money. So I you know, I don't 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.280 enjoy that I don't enjoy that sort of model where 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.880 you're going. And now it's gotten so commonplace that a 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.760 lot of these private events they don't really pay attention 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.520 to you, per say, anyway, because they just got to 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.720 sing Rod Stewart, you know. And so I find it 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.960 sort of impersonal and unintentionally disrespectful. So I don't do it. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.080 So how do you end up growing up in San Antonio? 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.720 My father was a physician in the army, pediatrician. I 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.320 was born in San Antonio. We moved fairly quickly to 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.480 Tokyo for five years, then to d C for five years. 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:43.080 My father was David Julie Eisenhower's pediatrician Ike's grandkids. But 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.560 then we moved back to San Antonio. My father was 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.520 sent back to Centronia and I lived there till about 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.320 sixty nine. And then, as I told you, I dropped out. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.320 I came back. I went after the hate the summer 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.440 of my junior year, heyte Ashbury, and I came back 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.280 with long hair. I went to my for my senior 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.360 year at my high school, which was a public high school, 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.200 and they told me you can't come out with long hair, so, 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.960 which is ironic, as I have none now, and I said, fine, 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.360 I'm not coming in. So I dropped out, and shortly 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.680 after that I moved up to Austin because I just 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.360 knew that Austin was a more virginy music scene. It 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:19.600 was kind of hip for there was a lot more 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.160 going on. So, uh, some of my compadres and I 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.600 learned up a truck and moved to Austin. But and 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.640 it was kind of Mecca compared to Santonio. 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.320 Wait a second, so San Francisco. I grew up on 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.680 the East coast, certainly closer to San Antonio than Connecticut. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.360 But to actually pick up and go to the Heat, 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:41.720 tell me about that. 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.560 Well, I went out there with a couple of friends 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.680 and just you know, to see you know, the great work, 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.680 see the brave new world go out. And so we 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.040 were in the West coast and so went down to 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.600 the Hate to sort of see what's going on. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.440 And also well a little bit slower, you went by car, 0:15:58.520 --> 0:15:59.320 you flew there. 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.400 Yeah, yeah, well I flew there and uh and then 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.640 you know got around. You know, it's been so long 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.200 I forget, but uh, and you know, we went down 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:11.600 to the Hate and saw what was going on, and 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.720 then you know, went to Fillmore West, saw a bunch 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.880 of cool bands and got really you know, it was amazing. 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.320 So I got all into that let my hair grow out, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.040 and I guess I thought it was you know something, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.000 and my high school didn't agree. So I was no 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.840 academic laws, trust me, but uh so let me go. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.600 But your father was very successful academically. What did he 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:37.800 say when you dropped out of high school? 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:40.960 Well, you know two things. I was the fourth of 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.600 five children, and I have kids, and you know, the 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.440 first one, you try to keep them real clean and 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:48.440 you dote on them, and then as they as you 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.280 have more of them, you get bad. They're dirty or whatever. 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.360 They fell down there. So I think he was a 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.280 little bit kind of whatever. But he also had played 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.200 bass in college upright base, and he told me those 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.880 are the best times of life. And he he I think, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:05.960 loved music, and he used to play a lot of 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.000 music around the house, like Glenn Miller, that sort of thing, 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:10.359 and that's how I got exposed to music. When I 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.320 was about twelve. My dad kind of drank too much, 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.680 but occasionally he'd get out his upright Base to play 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.080 along with his Glenn Miller records in the dining room, 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:22.040 and so he was. I think he was. You know, 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.840 he told my mom he'll manage, he'll figure it out. 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:27.520 And he always used to tell me too, He said, look, 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.760 school is fine, but as long as you read, if 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.360 you read, you'll be fine. But anyway, I went down 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.920 the music store and I asked the guy I was twelve. 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.720 I said, you got my dad listens to Glenn Miller, 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.240 Pete Fountain, He got any music like like for younger people, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:46.159 And he brought out bab Brubek Time Out and that 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:47.720 that was the first album I got and I took 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.520 it home. Was just asked for set of drums at 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.840 Christmas and the rest is sort of history. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:18:00.720 Okay, Siana, Antonio very close to the Mexican border. What's 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.760 it like growing up in San Antonio? 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.639 Well, it's a lovely town. And I will say that musically, 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:11.160 I was was very influenced and impressed by the Hispanic 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.920 bands like study Ozuda and the Sunliners. These are big 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.560 horn bands with percussion and giant production, and I used 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.240 to always go see them when I could. And I 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.080 think rhythmically, you know that sensor rhythm did kind of 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.000 find its wind to my music for sure. But you know, 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.720 Centuria is a lovely town, but it's you know, it's 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.640 a little sleepy. And so you have these the big 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.360 Hispanic bands that were you know, big stars and everything, 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.359 but there wasn't There was a little teen can play 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.280 thing called teen Canteen that cannamed Sam Kinsey ran all 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.639 the bands and play there, but there wasn't really a 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.239 way out, you know. It just seemed like it was 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.040 just a metre alugnation society of all these musicians that 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:51.760 were so nice to each other that wasn't competitive. They 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:53.320 were like, you know, we don't go see each other 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.439 and say you're great, you're you know, you're great, you know. 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:57.840 And I kind of figured, well, that ain't gonna get 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.159 me anywhere. So I wanted to go to the dre 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.800 into the pool and I heard about Austin. There was 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.760 luck going on there and that's where it was happening. 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.639 So it was accessible. I could drive up there, and 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.600 we got on a little crappy house and started trying 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.720 to find our wind to the scene, you know again, 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:16.159 playing cover tunes. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.560 Okay, you're in Tokyo, then you're in d C. The 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.119 Beatles hit in sixty four. You're eleven, going to be 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.320 twelve years old. In my group, we were listening to 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.560 the treeransistor for the baseball games, then the Beach Boys 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.000 and the fourth seasons, and then the Beatles hit. 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.679 What was your experience, Well, prior to the Beatles, it 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:41.600 was the Everly Brothers, Richie Allen's Ray Charles and then 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:43.920 of course the you know, it was such a singles market. 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.800 I'm seventy two, so you know, you had things like 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.200 a Stranger on the Shore by Acker Bilk. The next 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.040 minute is it's a team able to cap BIKKINI. It 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.240 was so diverse. It was very eclectic, not like it 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.679 is now. You know. Ricky Nelson used to watch the 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.439 Aussie you know you Hear It show, so that was 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.560 a lot of it until the Beatles came out. And 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:10.159 the minute I heard I guess someone holds your hand? 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:12.280 That sort of changed my life. And I was playing 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.040 drums for about six years, and I was a singing drummer, 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:16.760 and I just decided I got to get a guitar, 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.280 and I gotta I gotta do that, you know, So 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.600 I bought a seventeen dollars guitar. I'm left handed, but 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.000 the guitar bought seriars. Cadillac was seventeen dollars. It was 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:25.440 right handed. I didn't know any better, so I play 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.160 right handed. But the Beatles, it was the songs, of course, 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.000 but the sound of those flat wound strings on those 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.920 gretch guitars through those vox amps. I mean, the whole thing, 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:40.840 just the experience was transformative. And so that's what really 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.720 got me to want to, you know, try to try 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.760 to do that. And actually the first song I learned 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:51.040 on guitar, my little Texas country cowboy guitar, was you 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:56.080 really got me, thinks. So the whole British invasion, you know, 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.359 it was a huge impact for me. I was very 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.160 drawn into that and all that, the Hollies, all that stuff. 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:05.800 But the Beatles were you know, it was cathartic for sure. 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:12.000 Okay, so you were playing drums. Were you taking lessons? 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.520 Were you playing in the school orchestra? Was it just 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:15.600 something you did at home? 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.600 Well, I wanted to be. It's funny because I was 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.520 drawn to Joe Morello, who was the drummer and they 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.520 brew back. But I really had no skills. But uh, 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.280 I did try to take drum lessons from the symphony 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.960 that the guy played the symphony, and I refused to 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.080 hold my sticks in a traditional grip. I wanted to 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.040 hold them like Ringo. And he said, you'll never play 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.960 drums properly hold you sticks like that, and I won't 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.200 teach you if you're going to do that. And I said, well, 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:47.440 you know, Ringo's the greatest, and he said, Ringo's terrible, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:52.240 you know, So I said, I said, well, yeah, f 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.320 off and I left. And so I was just, you know, 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.280 I wasn't. I mean, wipe out was my big moment 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.000 in the show. These little makeout parties and stuff we played, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.000 because the wipe out this kind of my moment. I 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.639 only had one tom coom, but so, you know, the 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.520 drums were just you don't have to know a lot 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:10.879 played drum. It's just more of a physical thing. But 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:12.520 I was the singer because the other two guys are 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.360 too embarrass to sing. But then, you know, getting into 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:18.480 the guitar was a big, big thing. Like I said, 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:20.280 I was happy playing the drums. Still, I heard the 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.760 beatles and then I realized, man, you know, all these 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.639 girls screaming. I gotta I gotta figure this out. So 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.200 I got a guitar and left the drums behind, which 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.239 again was no big loss. But and I've always been 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.440 self taught. I never cook any music lessons or anything 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:36.760 like that. 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:47.119 Okay, so you get a guitar, how long until you 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:48.119 get an electric guitar? 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.199 Well, I had acoustic for a year or so, and 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.840 then I bought a guitar seventy dollars. I can't even 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:55.879 think of the name of it. I don't think you 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:57.960 had a name. It was just this great piece of crap, 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.600 played terrible. But I got a paunch store and played 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.080 that for quite a while. And then my parents could 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:06.720 see I was pretty serious about the whole thing. And 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:10.560 I wanted a Rickenbacker like the little Beatles sounded at the 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:12.639 beach boys had them too, and I wanted a Rickenbacker. 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:15.359 So my poor parents, I just tortured the hell out 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:19.840 him until they bought me this five hundred dollars Rickenbacker guitar. 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:24.000 That was my first. And I got a super reverb 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.000 Fender ramp, and that was a big, big thing for me. 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:30.679 You know, I was at actual equipment, so it just 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:32.920 it grew. But again, you know was my probably was 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:34.480 in the army. He was a colonel. But you know, 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:36.600 we lived on the bass. You know, he probably made 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:38.520 twenty five thousand dollars a year. There wasn't a lot 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.760 of money to throw it, you know, this sort of thing, 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:44.199 and I would go down to the music store and 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.119 stare at all the cool stuff. But you know, I 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:48.800 just grew as I could SA. It really wasn't until 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:51.000 I was thirty years old. Then the album came out 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:52.960 and I actually had some money to do something, you 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.040 know that I got cool equipment and did all that. 0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:00.199 So after you got the guitar from sears It, what 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.200 point did you start playing out when you were playing 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:03.639 the guitar. 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.560 Well, that took a little while because in junior high 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:11.120 I was a drummer and we had our little band. 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:13.920 We were called the Psychos. I read a lot of 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:16.000 Ed Growmind Poe, watched Twilights or on that sort of thing. 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:17.600 So we were the Psychos. So we'd play it. We 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:19.240 only had four or five songs. We play at these things, 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:21.040 I say, makeout parties where you go to your friend's 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:22.560 house and maybe one of their parents had give you 0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:24.840 fifty bucks. You played by the pool. That was as 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:26.800 a drummer. When I switched to guitar, I took a little. 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:28.119 There was a break because I had to kind of 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:32.200 learn what I was doing. Then I went from Catholic school. 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:35.639 I asked my parents if I could leave Catholic school 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:39.199 and go to public school, and so I did. But 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:41.439 it was a very lonely transition because I didn't know anybody. 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:44.800 Everybody had come from public junior highs. So the first 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:46.760 couple of years I was kind of a loner and 0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:50.840 I just basically focused on learning the guitar. But there 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:53.400 were other people in high school trying to do band stuff, 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:55.480 and I met them and you know, and did things. 0:24:55.520 --> 0:24:57.879 But also in the community of San Antonio, trying to 0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:01.760 reach out to especially older guys who I could possibly 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.240 play with, who teach me something. But that was a 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.840 slow process. I don't think I really played anywhere with 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:09.959 the band until I was a junior high school, probably 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:11.960 maybe sophomore. 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:14.879 But okay, so now you're in high school, you're wood 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:17.800 shedding at home. At what point do you form bands 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:18.520 in high school? 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:22.080 Well, as I said, there were other kids who were 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:26.240 also interested, you know, and some of them had some money. 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:28.280 One good kid, I remember he had a stratocaster it's 0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:30.520 pretty cool, and he had some equipment but so you 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:33.520 meet these kids and you learn you have this like 0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:36.560 mindedness of wanting to do music, and so like, well, look, 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:37.520 you know, why don't I come over. I'm me and 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:39.600 my guitar and we'll kind of jam around. And then 0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:42.679 before too long, my parents let me practice in my 0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:44.560 bedroom at our house and we had drums and everything 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:47.440 set up there. And so I started to you know, 0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:50.720 I said earlier that aren't really a network, but I did. 0:25:50.800 --> 0:25:53.640 I networked for my own purpose. I found guys who 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:56.520 could play decent and you know, did form a band. 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:58.280 And so I was networking to that degree, trying to 0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:00.440 find guys that I could put a court to together. 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:02.080 We could we could try to do something, you know. 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:06.199 And I was writing songs pretty early on with that 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.080 whole thing. Not that they were any good or doing 0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:10.480 anything with them, but I that was the beatle thing. 0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:15.280 I wanted to do that, you know. And it was 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:20.400 a long process of experimentation, but so, you know, it 0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:24.320 was but junior year, my band were called Flash and 0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:26.640 we were kind of a big deal in Sentenio. We've 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:28.320 kind of you know, made a few waves. 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:33.520 Okay, and the material was and you were the front person. 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:38.800 I was sort of and it was a quartet. The 0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:47.600 material was original material, and there's songs that I wrote, 0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:51.159 you know, believe it or not. I was a big Zappa 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:53.800 fand so some of the early music was a bit 0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:56.880 avant Garden terms of time, structure, time things like that. 0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:03.199 Songs like right someone was called a plastic bag on 0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:06.280 the end of the event Coad Hanger, trying to be 0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:10.040 like Frank, you know, weird. But so we played at 0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:11.800 clubs and stuff. We could play your own music. And 0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:14.320 again in San Antonio there was this all the other 0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:15.879 kids that all the other guys had come out and 0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:17.680 see your band, you're great, and then you will see them 0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:22.399 and and so I played my original material and we 0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:27.800 were good. And a local promoter in town, Joe Miller, 0:27:28.000 --> 0:27:30.800 lovely guy, had company called Jam Productions, and he brought 0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:34.439 groups into San Antonio, and he brought led Zeppelin in 0:27:35.200 --> 0:27:36.760 and I think there was a there was a lawn 0:27:36.960 --> 0:27:39.320 in Texas at the time where in concerts they had 0:27:39.359 --> 0:27:41.080 to have a local band play on the show for 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:45.639 thirty minutes. Yeah, God bless him. That's a great rule, 0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:50.240 you know. So you don't see that now. So Joe 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:52.639 arranged he kind of believed and we saw something and 0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:56.120 we used to practice at his house, his wife Nancy. Anyway, 0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:58.960 Joe let me open for Zeppelin the first time that 0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:01.240 came up with Jeff Throte and Zeppelin and we opened 0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:01.800 for Zeppelin. 0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:03.480 Were you a Zeppelin fan? 0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:06.399 Well, yeah, of course I you know, a big Jimmy 0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:09.919 So what was like, Well it was trippy because uh 0:28:11.040 --> 0:28:15.480 uh we actually, you know, the things were a lot 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:17.800 different than you got to realize that there wasn't all 0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:19.920 the security on that stuff and the guy they were new, 0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:23.920 so it was pretty poorous backstage, you know, they weren't 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:27.240 like they got to be later. So Jimmy and Robert 0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:31.040 plant actually asked me, uh, you know, what do you kids? 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:32.959 Do your parents have money or something like that. You know, 0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:36.840 we get doing this and uh, I said, no, our 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:39.080 band were playing. He thought they thought we were just 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:41.960 hanging out. I said, no, our band is opening the show. 0:28:42.360 --> 0:28:44.600 So that night in the wings, I looked over and 0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:47.440 there was planting page and we were terrible, trust me. 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:51.440 But the cool thing that happened out of it was 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:56.440 Jimmy used these great, these really cool lamps called high Watts. 0:28:57.200 --> 0:28:58.640 They were sort of like a Marshall lamp, but they 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:00.680 were even newer, and they're made by this Dave Reeves 0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:03.320 in a garage in London, and I'd seen him in magazines, 0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:05.160 but Jimmy had him and Pete Townsend Adams. So I 0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:08.200 asked Jimmy about it, and I said, boy, that they're 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:09.800 just so cool. He said, well, if you want one, 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:13.760 give Clive and my roadie money and I'll get Dave 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.120 to build you one. So I gave him sent I 0:29:16.120 --> 0:29:19.120 get Clive seven hundred bucks, which was a lot for me, 0:29:20.160 --> 0:29:22.800 and everybody said, I'll never see your money. And a 0:29:22.800 --> 0:29:25.080 couple months later, by boat, I come home from school 0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:27.320 and they're in my living room are two cardboard boxes 0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:29.200 and it was a high, white headed cabinet that I 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:33.280 got to Jimmy Page. And I was the coolest motherfucker 0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:36.240 in town man, trust me. I mean not only because 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:37.800 I had a highway, but I got him jim Page. 0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:39.920 Another thing that Joe did. He had brought in Deep 0:29:39.960 --> 0:29:43.360 Purple to the club and there was their first show 0:29:43.400 --> 0:29:45.640 in the US and Richie Blackmore got a flu shot 0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:49.280 and he got quite sick, and they talked about what 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:51.560 to do, and they decided they didn't want to cancel 0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:53.440 the show because of the very first show in the US, 0:29:53.880 --> 0:29:56.120 and Joe said, look, I've got this kid that I 0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:59.240 know pretty good, Tark Bind He's a big fan of Richie's. 0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:01.680 He could sit in. So I sat in. I played 0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:03.600 for Richie Blackmoorg with deeper. 0:30:04.040 --> 0:30:05.760 What did you know the material? 0:30:06.680 --> 0:30:09.320 Yeah? I knew, you know, the hits and some of 0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:11.160 that stuff. And we played some blues. I mean it 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:13.480 didn't They told people, if you want to leave, you can. 0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:15.720 You know, my real name's not cross at s Gepherd. 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:18.280 So they said, Chris Geppert's going to get play and 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:21.680 people knew me and I had cool equipment. So I 0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:23.360 got up there. I think had a flying V at 0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:26.080 the time, headlong hair. So I got up and played. 0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:27.720 We played, We went over a few things during the 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:30.320 day and we played some blues and uh, it was 0:30:30.400 --> 0:30:34.000 kind of a mess. But you know what Richie called me. 0:30:34.800 --> 0:30:37.040 Some years, if not too long ago, they did a 0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:38.640 documentary about him and he said, you know, I want 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:40.120 you to be interviewed because he said, in all the 0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:42.640 years we played, lots of people sat in, but no 0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:46.560 one ever subbed for me. And it was the thrill 0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:48.360 of a lifetime, you kidding. It was like and you 0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:51.040 know what, It's interesting. You know who opened the show 0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:56.200 was Eric Johnson, Wow, the guitarist, and that's how I 0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:59.240 got to meet Eric. So I got to do a 0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:01.520 lot of cool things like that, we open for the Airplane, 0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:04.160 all these things because of Joe Miller, and they were 0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:06.560 really good learning experiences for me, you know, because I 0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:09.840 got to hang out on shows like Blind Faith and 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:12.520 I got to hang out with It was just different. 0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:16.880 You know, it wasn't much of security, you know, like 0:31:17.280 --> 0:31:20.120 Blind Faith. I wouldn't I sat out during soundcheck, you know, 0:31:20.440 --> 0:31:22.920 So I had access to some pretty cool stuff. 0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:29.160 Okay, you're scene primarily as a singer songwriter for those 0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:31.239 who don't know how hot a guitarist are you? 0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:37.680 Oh, I'm okay, I put it. You know, I'm a 0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:40.200 singer songwriter first, and the guitar is just it. It's 0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:42.680 a vehicle for what I need to do. But playing 0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:45.080 in the cover bands and stuff, we couldn't afford a 0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:46.800 lead guitar player, so I had to play guitar, so 0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:49.160 I had to learn how to play lead. I originally 0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:50.520 was just a rhythm player. I learned how to play 0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:53.600 lead and sort of not by choice. And I remember 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.640 my bass player Andy Sam would always get some bad 0:31:57.640 --> 0:32:00.080 because and he was really fantastic get learning stuff on 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:02.560 the radio. He could pick out anything. And I never 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:04.240 played the solo right in any of us. So I 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:05.400 can show it to you, And I said, I don't care. 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:07.360 It'll be off the radio in two weeks. I'm writing 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:11.200 my own songs anyway. You know, it's a hard question 0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:13.520 to answer. I mean you have to ask other players. 0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:18.800 I mean, you know, in Austin you could throw a 0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:21.040 rock and hit a guitar player. So I'm not gonna 0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:23.800 you know, I'm okay. I get by. I mean I 0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:27.160 think when I have someone play on my record, like 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:30.880 Larry Carlson or Eric Johnson or Steve Luketther from Toto, 0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:36.480 I can't play their solos. I just play some other shit. 0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:39.640 So you know, I'm okay. 0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:41.920 Okay. When did you realize you could sing. 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.080 Well right away? I told you when I was in 0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:51.680 sixth grade, somebody had a sing and and and the 0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:54.440 guys are too embarrassed. You know, I don't want to sing, 0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:57.440 so I was a singing drummer. And then of course 0:32:57.480 --> 0:32:59.120 when the Beatles stuff came out, and I would sing 0:32:59.160 --> 0:33:01.480 like and I love her. I mean the girls, would 0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:04.480 you know, sort of swoon and then Chris. I was 0:33:04.480 --> 0:33:08.240 so into the Beach Boys that I would just I 0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:11.400 remember telling Brian that I used to sit in the 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:13.920 dark room with a turntable and listen to The Lonely 0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:18.440 See over and over and over again. And Brian was 0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:20.400 kind of faster. He said, really the Lonely Sea and 0:33:20.480 --> 0:33:25.520 he went cool. But I began to emulate them, he 0:33:25.600 --> 0:33:28.800 and Carl, you know, and try to sound like them. 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:30.920 And that's the thing. I'm not a rock singer, like 0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:34.080 I can't sing like you know, Sammy Hagar, who I 0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:37.440 think is amazing. I wish I could, but or Steve Perry, 0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:40.440 those kind of people. But part of that's just how 0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:43.360 I've trained my voice, because Carl Wilson especially is my 0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:45.920 mentor vocally, and I just tried to learn to sing 0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:48.360 like them. 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:53.400 Okay, on your web page, you have a whole page 0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:56.800 dedicated to equipment. You said you couldn't afford equipment for 0:33:56.840 --> 0:34:00.240 a long time. Are you like a geek when it 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:01.120 comes to equipment? 0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:04.280 Oh? Yeah, I'm a I'm a real gearhead. In fact, 0:34:04.600 --> 0:34:06.880 Eric Johnson, I've become who I met him. I was nineteen, 0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:09.279 but we're very very close friends now, and he's incredible 0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:12.359 and one of the grest guitar players alive. And he's 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:15.160 really into gear too. So yeah, all my guitar friends, uh, 0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:18.360 you know, we're all kind of gear geeks. You know, 0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:22.080 the latest pedals and and you know whatever it is. 0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:24.239 So but you got to be careful because you can 0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:26.800 get lost in that. And at some points I'll stop 0:34:26.840 --> 0:34:28.359 and go, Okay, I got good gear. I just don't 0:34:28.360 --> 0:34:29.879 play music, you know, I don't. I want I want 0:34:29.880 --> 0:34:31.640 to listen to another pedal. I just want to play. 0:34:32.080 --> 0:34:34.040 But yeah, I'm pretty into the gear thing, kind of 0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:38.080 a gearhead for sure. I got signature signature amps and 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:38.600 all that stuff. 0:34:38.640 --> 0:34:40.560 How many guitars and how many amps do you have? 0:34:42.000 --> 0:34:45.279 Uh? Well, I got about ten amps and I got 0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:47.799 maybe twenty guitars. Not a lot. I mean, I've gotten 0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:49.359 rid of a lot of stuff over the years. In fact, 0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:51.879 people ask me, where's the high watch that Jimmy Page got. 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:55.680 I don't even know stadly, but I've gotten to I 0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:59.239 don't collect vintage guitars. I've played these guitars called Tom 0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:02.719 Anderson's that are just like gorgeous, like Mercedes type stratocasters, 0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:04.480 and I play Taylor Acausic guitars and they're just so 0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:08.280 well made. I find for myself that the newer guitars 0:35:08.320 --> 0:35:10.840 that are really really well made, stay in tune and 0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:14.440 you know, intonation and stuff are better for me than 0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:17.080 the old guitar that has a lot of character and 0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:19.320 a lot of mojo. Maybe, but they're just not practical 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:21.040 to take around, you know, on the road. 0:35:22.200 --> 0:35:24.520 And what about you have your own signatury. Tell me 0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:24.960 about that. 0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:28.759 Well that's made by a company called Divided by thirteen 0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:32.600 and they're a small boutique builder in California. And the 0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:36.279 guys that play with McCartney, Rusty and Brian Daisen and 0:35:37.239 --> 0:35:40.120 wonderful amps, and Fred built me one that's kind of 0:35:40.160 --> 0:35:41.960 designed the way I wanted it to be. But it's 0:35:41.960 --> 0:35:44.520 a one twelve combo amp that has two different types 0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:46.919 of tubes in it and stuff, and they're great. It's 0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:51.000 called the nine point fifteen three C. But I said 0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:53.120 I had ten ms. I've got eight of those, eight 0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:55.479 of those combos because I have multiple sets of gear. 0:35:56.160 --> 0:36:00.520 But you know, I don't play real loud bob on stage. 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:03.399 I use inner monitors. And my whole thing is I'm 0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:05.840 working with jazz musicians, so it's all about, you know, 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:13.520 really clean and musical, you know, So we don't play loud. 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:16.279 It's about, you know, I really try to show off 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:18.279 the virtuosity of the guys I play with because they're 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:21.840 just unbelievable. And that's comes from the Asia model, you know. 0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:26.160 So what's the theory with two different types of tubes. 0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:30.120 Well, the divided by thirteen it has two six V 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:32.640 six's in it, which are what's in a Deluxe Finder Deluxe, 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:34.440 and has two El eighty fours in it, which are 0:36:34.480 --> 0:36:39.239 what's in a vox Ac thirty. So I it's getting free. 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:41.839 I have three amps on stage and I use what's 0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:45.000 called a wet dry rig. In the center is my 0:36:45.360 --> 0:36:47.480 dry amp. It's just dry, and it's on the EL 0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:50.400 eighty four settings more aggressive. The side amps are on 0:36:50.440 --> 0:36:53.920 the sixty six settings and they're eighty percent wet, so 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:57.319 out front the guy can really control the amount of 0:36:57.400 --> 0:36:59.600 effects and stuff like that. And what's great about you 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:02.680 get a lot focused because the cineramp is dry. It's 0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:05.120 like being in the studio. The delay and stuff is 0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:06.960 not mixed in with the dry but on the sides 0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.560 it's like eighty percent wet. So it creates this incredible 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:12.879 wall of sound, which the front of house guy's got 0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:15.200 to be good, but he has a lot of control. 0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:17.279 Then over I can play with as much delay as 0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:19.439 I want on stage, but out front he could dial 0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:21.840 it back. But it's a huge sound in stereo, and 0:37:21.880 --> 0:37:26.440 it's it's pretty massive. I mean, some guys, I'll say 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:27.759 you should hear my rig and they go, I don't 0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:28.200 want to hear it. 0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:29.400 I don't want to. 0:37:29.840 --> 0:37:31.279 I don't want to. I don't want to drag that 0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:33.000 around the church, you know, I don't want to do that. 0:37:34.200 --> 0:37:36.640 Tom Anderson builds my guitars. I think Tom said that. 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:40.239 So to what degree are the same people with you 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:41.600 over the last few years. 0:37:43.040 --> 0:37:47.560 Well, I have musicians that are New York, Austin, La Paris, 0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:52.560 and they're all, uh, I got chose the Asian model 0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:56.239 after Asia, I really kind of started emulating everything Dan 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:58.640 did and as far as the style of production of 0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:03.080 records and on stage, these guys are all jazz trained, 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:07.279 you know, seriously jazz trained musicians, and they bring that 0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:12.320 you know, nuance to the music. So it's not jazz, 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:15.960 but they're bringing their jazz style into it. And my 0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:20.640 show is all charted music charts and they're all on 0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:23.520 a server. So the guys have iPads and I'll bring 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:25.560 up a set list and so basically working for me, 0:38:25.600 --> 0:38:29.800 it's all reading music. I haven't rehearsed in twenty five years. 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:34.279 Everything's on charts, and every to work in my band, 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.440 he got to be a really good reader. So I'm 0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:39.520 working with guys from New York, LA. It just depends 0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:43.719 who I who I you know, what I'm doing, who's available. 0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:47.160 Lately I've been working with an ensemble out of Paris, Trio, 0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:49.759 which just amazing guys out of Paris that I work with. 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:52.160 But I work with us guys like I play with 0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:54.680 Keith Carlock, who plays of Steely Dan. Keith works with 0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:59.959 me when he can, Travis Carlton, Larry Carlton, some plays 0:39:00.000 --> 0:39:02.120 Basement when you can. But it's a lot of who's available, 0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:04.520 you know. But I have a nice network of people 0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:06.600 in four or five places that I can call on, 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:10.759 and because we don't rehearse, it's easy. I just they 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:11.760 show up and play. 0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:18.080 Okay, they have charts yourself taught? Can you read music? 0:39:19.120 --> 0:39:22.239 I can read charts, meaning you know chord charts and 0:39:22.280 --> 0:39:25.480 things like that, but I'm not great with notation. Those 0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:29.720 guys are. But uh, and I have what are called MRLs, 0:39:29.719 --> 0:39:32.920 which are music Master Rhythm lyric charts, so they have 0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:37.040 the chords and everything and the lyric because I'll be 0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:39.239 honest with you, you know my age. I mean, I 0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:41.279 have over one hundred songs. I mean sometimes I need 0:39:41.320 --> 0:39:44.040 a little cheat sheet too. It's just really forms for security. 0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:46.719 That's kind of a teleproctor. So I have the I 0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:49.399 have the chord chart and the lyrics, so I can. 0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:51.160 I can read those kinds of charts, but no, I 0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:55.040 cannot read like a violin chart or something. Those guys can, 0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:59.000 but so I can. I can exist in their world enough. 0:39:59.000 --> 0:40:01.520 But of course I wrote this song, so I know. 0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:05.120 But there's so many of them that the guys, yeah, 0:40:05.160 --> 0:40:07.239 they know sailing probably without looking at the chart, but 0:40:07.400 --> 0:40:09.279 most of the stuff they need to have a chart 0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:11.799 to play it. But I'm playing with them because they're 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:16.239 it's like Asia, you know. Donald Walter started bringing in 0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:20.719 guys like Michael Lomartian and Greg Fillingates, these incredible jazz 0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:23.080 players to interpret that music, and it brought it to 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:23.839 a home to the level. 0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:29.080 You know, I once saw Steely Dan and Walter Becker 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:32.120 was ill, and Larry Carlton came in and played off 0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:35.799 the charts. It was mind blowing fact that he could 0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:37.080 just do that instantly. 0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:41.440 Oh yeah, well, you know my biggest When I got 0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:45.880 my deal with Warner Brothers, they assigned me Michael Lomartian 0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:47.880 as a producer. He had just been signed as a producer, 0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:49.799 and I was I didn't really know who he was. 0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:51.359 I was looking. I was really at the for Gary 0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:53.719 Katz or Ted Temple, one of these guys. And I 0:40:53.760 --> 0:40:55.279 was at the Water Brother's office, and I was not 0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:58.840 being terribly perceptive to Michael Lomartian, who's a genius. But 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:04.360 so I said to him the Wonder Brothers Rep. Michael Austin, 0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:06.360 who was most son who signed me, said, you know, 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:09.120 Michael plays with Steely Dan. I said, oh really, like 0:41:09.360 --> 0:41:13.200 what did you play on? Michael said, humbly, he said everything. 0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:18.120 So I said, you know, Larry Carlton, this is a 0:41:18.120 --> 0:41:19.879 true store. I said, you know Larry Carlton. He goes yes. 0:41:19.960 --> 0:41:21.920 I said can you get him to plan my record? 0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:24.040 And he said yes, And I said he doesn't do 0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:26.719 sessions anymore. He's like a star he's like, you know, 0:41:27.320 --> 0:41:28.800 because I was a huge fan of Larry's and so 0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:30.239 Michael said, well, I know, Larry, I think I can 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:32.120 do it. I said, well, here's the deal. If you 0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:34.000 can get Larry Carlton to plan my record, you can 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:37.439 produce record. And that was that was the deal we made. 0:41:37.840 --> 0:41:40.040 And I finally told Carlton this story a few years 0:41:40.080 --> 0:41:41.840 ago and he said, man, I should have been getting points. 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:47.000 But true to form, Michael Hamardine got Larry Carlton to 0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:48.680 planed my record. He played on two tracks, and it 0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:52.640 was just it was the thrill of a lifetime, one 0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:54.360 of those times like the Pope, you know, sitting with 0:41:54.440 --> 0:41:59.600 Larry Carlton because he's he's you know, a huge, huge 0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:03.480 hero mine and so many players you know. So but yeah, 0:42:03.640 --> 0:42:06.440 that whole model. Even back then, I was into that. 0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:09.799 Having these guys that could play like that bring that 0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:14.279 sensibility to my songwriting and so and I think my 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:17.839 songwriter has got more sophisticated over the years, but they 0:42:17.840 --> 0:42:19.799 bring it to home toother level. These guys. 0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:23.520 Okay, you drop out of high school, you moved to 0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:27.640 San Antonio alone or with other band members. 0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:32.040 Yeah, I moved up up to Austin with Rock Austin. 0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:35.319 I believe Rob me or I think you You may 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:37.279 not remember, but he used to have exchange letters of 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:42.040 the occasion. Rob Yeah, yeah, So Rob and Andy Salomon 0:42:42.280 --> 0:42:45.359 bass player. We've moved up in a truck, you know, 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:48.680 and moved all the crap into a house. You're paying 0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:53.120 forty bucks a month rent, and we started playing in 0:42:53.520 --> 0:42:56.279 cover bands. There's an agent in town, Llawyer and Charlie 0:42:56.320 --> 0:42:58.640 Hatchett that booked everybody. And we just started playing fraternity 0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:01.200 parties and clubs, anything we could play, just to make 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:05.319 a living, you know. And so we did that for 0:43:05.360 --> 0:43:07.440 quite a while. But I was always writing, but I 0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:10.759 just didn't see any point, you know, the people that, 0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:13.200 like I said, Stevie, who is true artist. You know, 0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:15.840 he wasn't making much money doing that. He's playing for 0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:22.799 his soul and that's wonderful. But you know, Austin, but 0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:25.399 there wasn't a town yet where you could really get 0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:27.759 appreciation for playing around music at my level at least, 0:43:27.800 --> 0:43:31.520 So I just kept my head down and played cover 0:43:31.600 --> 0:43:35.399 tunes and made money. I could play make fifteen hundred 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:38.920 bucks a nights for the band at the fraternity party. 0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:42.200 But I'd never really bothered playing my tunes out. I 0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:48.920 just made demos and I sent them for Warner Brothers. 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:55.000 Okay, you moved to Austin, you've dropped out of high school, 0:43:55.480 --> 0:43:59.719 totally self supporting or does your father send you any money? 0:44:00.520 --> 0:44:03.480 I had a car and they paid my gas. I 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:05.640 had a gas card and they paid my gas in shirts. 0:44:05.640 --> 0:44:07.919 But otherwise though we made a living. We were living 0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:10.640 at a house. You just paid forty bucks. Let the rent. 0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:14.279 We lived off you know, Big Lone Stars and Peanut 0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:17.840 M and M's probably, but uh we just you know, 0:44:17.840 --> 0:44:20.840 it was all about you know, the dream. You know, 0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:22.879 we're just living that dream. But it was fine. We 0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:26.240 didn't need much and you know those when you're young, 0:44:26.280 --> 0:44:30.279 you don't care what your surroundings are like. But uh so, yeah, 0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:32.600 we lived in that house and played tunes like you know, 0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:35.359 played cover tunes and stuff that did. I I had 0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:37.960 an arrangement with a studio there in Austin, and I 0:44:38.000 --> 0:44:40.359 could go in at night and record. I invested some 0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:44.680 money in uh in some equipment and set up their 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:46.400 B studio so I could go in and record in 0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:48.960 the twenty four tracks studio and start doing demos and 0:44:49.040 --> 0:44:52.800 I sit sent two sets of fork song demos to warners. 0:44:52.840 --> 0:44:56.080 You know, oh okay, a little bit slower you move 0:44:56.520 --> 0:44:59.919 when you're not even twenty. You don't get a deal 0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:03.400 until your late twenties. What goes on in that ten. 0:45:03.280 --> 0:45:11.480 Years playing playing, like I said, fraternity parties, clubs, I mean, 0:45:11.520 --> 0:45:13.799 Austin was I told you it was really happening. As 0:45:13.840 --> 0:45:16.920 far as there was there were clubs. There were the 0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:19.040 University of Texas coll They's fraternity parties, but all these 0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:21.719 college students going out, so there there were places to 0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:26.400 play and make good money playing cover tunes. It's just 0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:29.640 that to be an original band was pretty hard, and 0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:31.960 it was only people that were really really special like 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:34.839 Stevie who you know, it was just a prodigy who 0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:36.279 went out and people did go to hear them. But 0:45:36.320 --> 0:45:38.719 even at that level, you know, playing these places that 0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:40.440 artists like that played, they didn't get paid a lot 0:45:40.480 --> 0:45:42.000 of money. They did it for the love of it, 0:45:42.520 --> 0:45:44.000 and there's a lot of integrity there, and I have 0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:46.880 incredible respect for those people. But for me, I had 0:45:46.920 --> 0:45:49.080 a child at the time, you know, I'd gotten married 0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:51.080 at a child that I just I felt it was 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:54.400 a better plan just to keep hacking out the radio tunes. 0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:56.960 Plus all that music had an influence on me too, 0:45:57.040 --> 0:45:59.759 you know, learning those songs and singing and playing beach 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:03.319 Boys and that sort of thing. But that was just 0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:06.080 my model. That's what the way I did it. And again, 0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:08.600 through this strange quirk of fate with warners, I got 0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:10.520 a deal. When I was, like you said, twenty eight, 0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:11.960 twenty nine, how. 0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:13.080 Did you end up getting married? 0:46:15.320 --> 0:46:17.359 Well, I was in Houston, Texas, playing in a cover 0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:21.319 band called Heather Black and Good Band, and you know, 0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:25.440 young girl, pretty girl came back of the club and 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:28.359 she was at eighteen. I was twenty two or something, 0:46:28.400 --> 0:46:30.000 and I think she was trying to just piss off 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:32.040 her father. But we ran off from the lobe after 0:46:32.080 --> 0:46:35.240 two weeks and it didn't go well. In fact, Rob, 0:46:36.280 --> 0:46:39.279 Rob Muhir, he went to the courthouse for us to 0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:41.919 get married, and it was so impetuous and I didn't 0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:48.719 you know, Rob was standing behind us when they stood 0:46:48.800 --> 0:46:51.120 up for us at the courthouse. And I'll never forget 0:46:51.360 --> 0:46:53.480 as soon as a female judge a sin as, she said, 0:46:53.480 --> 0:46:55.319 I pronounce you met her wife. I heard Rob under 0:46:55.320 --> 0:46:57.399 his breath go, this is not going to end well. 0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:03.880 But you ended up having a child. 0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:07.120 Well we did, but we were only married seven years, 0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:09.400 but we had a child, and it was it was 0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:11.879 just doomed, doom to failure. I only knew the girl 0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:14.000 two weeks I married. It was listen, I was just 0:47:14.040 --> 0:47:18.080 some horny guitar player who you know. You know. So 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.200 that was my first failed experience as a matrimony. But 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:25.000 I'll never forget Rob saying that was pretty funny. But so, 0:47:25.160 --> 0:47:27.680 you know, I got married and kid, I just I 0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:35.120 felt like I responsibility to you know, Justin was literally 0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:36.719 he was, you know, two or three, and I had 0:47:36.719 --> 0:47:40.160 to support these people in an apartment, and so I 0:47:40.200 --> 0:47:42.279 needed to go out and make money. And I said, 0:47:42.320 --> 0:47:44.520 we get paid fifteen hundred bucks to play Attorney party. 0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:47.719 And that was a lot of money than Bob, it was, 0:47:48.440 --> 0:47:48.719 you know. 0:47:48.920 --> 0:47:52.040 And it was cash, no tax cash. 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:54.840 You know. It was just it was just the plan. 0:47:55.000 --> 0:47:57.760 I had a plan, you know, and and it seemed 0:47:57.800 --> 0:48:00.960 to be more practical. I never could have supported my 0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:03.480 family Bob trying to play my tunes around town. And 0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:06.640 then when my album came out, everybody was so surprised, Wow, 0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:08.719 where you been? What these songs and all that real, Well, 0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:10.719 I don't know. I just tad them under my hat. 0:48:11.640 --> 0:48:15.360 Okay, you made the demos, you send them to Warner Brothers. 0:48:15.760 --> 0:48:19.839 But how long had you been working on songs and 0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:21.040 recording them at home? 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:26.200 Well, I mean, I've been writing songs since the very 0:48:26.200 --> 0:48:28.400 beginning when I got that cowboy guitar. That was, you know, 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:31.920 a junior high. But the oldest song on the first 0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:34.080 record is a song called Poor Shirley, and it was 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:37.240 about four years old to the release of the record. 0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:41.080 So most of those songs were you know, fairly recent 0:48:41.920 --> 0:48:44.920 in terms of my historical path as far as the 0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:46.160 ones that ended up on that record. 0:48:46.200 --> 0:48:48.759 You know, Okay, you were making a living as a 0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:51.480 working musician. You know, the Beatles made it in their 0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:54.480 very early twenties. At this point, most people in the 0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:57.359 rock world had made it by their mid twenties. Did 0:48:57.360 --> 0:48:59.680 you ever waiver in the dream? Did you always think 0:48:59.680 --> 0:49:01.600 you were to make it? Did you even think you 0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:02.319 were going to make it? 0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:08.160 Well, your musicians have a strange way of believing, believing 0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:10.759 in themselves, you know, in spite of all things of 0:49:10.800 --> 0:49:13.600 the contrary. But and answer your question, you've hit on 0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:15.239 something here, because no, Because I'll tell you the truth. 0:49:15.320 --> 0:49:18.160 The last six months or so, when I was trying 0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:19.680 to get my deal with Warners and all that stuff, 0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:21.759 I kind of told myself, look, I can't keep doing this. 0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:24.719 You know, I got a family. If if I don't 0:49:24.760 --> 0:49:26.960 get something going pretty soon, I'm just going to call 0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:30.000 it and just you know, go get a job and 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:33.120 do something we after school or whatever. And so I 0:49:33.160 --> 0:49:36.600 gave myself sort of a six month window to see 0:49:36.640 --> 0:49:38.040 what was see what was going to come of it, 0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:41.360 if anything should come to fruition, And then fortunately I 0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:44.640 got signed. Yeah, but I was, I was going to, 0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:46.759 you know, pretty much call it today. I was because 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:48.440 I've been trying for a long long time, and like 0:49:48.480 --> 0:49:52.360 you said, I was older. Most people had deals by then, 0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:56.359 and so uh and that was part of the problem too. 0:49:56.360 --> 0:49:58.239 You know when I when all this happened, it was 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:02.200 so medioric. I didn't have a regular art to my 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:04.600 career like someone like the police and those people. You know, 0:50:04.640 --> 0:50:08.319 I just it just I went from playing in fraternities 0:50:08.480 --> 0:50:11.520 back we finished their record in seventy nine, I went 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:13.640 back to Austin and went back to playing clubs until 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:16.000 the album was released, playing Eagles songs. And then the 0:50:16.040 --> 0:50:17.759 next thing had happened. The album comes out and I'm 0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:22.360 opening for the Eagles. So it was overwhelming. And I 0:50:22.440 --> 0:50:24.759 wish very much that I could go back and play 0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:28.080 those early shows with the kind of confidence and professionalism 0:50:28.120 --> 0:50:30.600 I have now, because I was just up there, you know, 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:35.360 totally out of my element. No I from playing a 0:50:35.400 --> 0:50:37.600 little club, playing twenty thousand seediter, I had no business 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:37.960 doing that. 0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:43.160 Okay, you sent the tapes off. How did you actually 0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:45.120 hear from Warner Brothers and what they say? 0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:51.520 Well, when David Berson, he got the tape and he 0:50:51.719 --> 0:50:53.840 liked it, and he went to lunch with Lenny Warnker 0:50:53.840 --> 0:50:55.839 that day and he said, Lenny, I got a tape, 0:50:55.920 --> 0:50:57.600 let me play for And this is the story they 0:50:57.600 --> 0:50:59.319 told me. Lindy said, give me a break. I meant 0:50:59.400 --> 0:51:01.160 lunch all I do listen to the tapes all day long. 0:51:02.400 --> 0:51:04.839 But did David insisted they put it in, And this 0:51:04.880 --> 0:51:07.640 is what they told me later. Lenny said he really 0:51:07.719 --> 0:51:10.560 liked my voice. He thought it was radio friendly, and 0:51:10.600 --> 0:51:11.960 so he said, I give it a damn tape. So 0:51:11.960 --> 0:51:13.400 you got the tape and they reached out to me 0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:17.160 and said, listen, you know, we really like your voices 0:51:17.160 --> 0:51:19.040 through a radio friendly, and they did what they all 0:51:19.080 --> 0:51:20.960 do at the time, So send us some more material. 0:51:21.040 --> 0:51:23.840 We're interested, and they keep stringing you along. So I 0:51:23.840 --> 0:51:28.800 did another set of demos and sent those and Michael Austin, 0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:33.399 who was Most's son, he was new to the an 0:51:33.400 --> 0:51:35.560 Are but fortunately he believed in me, you know, and 0:51:37.239 --> 0:51:40.080 kind of put his influence behind it. But they still 0:51:40.280 --> 0:51:42.719 didn't believe in the songs. I remember them saying, your 0:51:42.800 --> 0:51:44.839 voice is great, but we may have to feature other 0:51:44.880 --> 0:51:49.120 songs to record. Not too sure about these songs. And 0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:52.000 they had heard sailing and I'd like to win in 0:51:52.040 --> 0:51:56.919 all those songs, and the demos were, you know, real 0:51:57.040 --> 0:52:01.120 good representations of what you hear on the record later. 0:52:01.440 --> 0:52:03.359 But so Michael Lomarty and the producer, was the one 0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:05.439 who said, listen, let us go in the studio see 0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:07.120 because I think there's something here. And so then we 0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:11.680 went in and you know, and recorded. But and Michael 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:13.600 did a great job of making the record, you know, 0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:16.680 enhancing with the strings and all that. But initially they 0:52:16.880 --> 0:52:19.399 just were focused on my voice. They said, your voice 0:52:19.400 --> 0:52:21.480 is like James, you know, it's like James Taylor, as 0:52:21.520 --> 0:52:23.279 good as James. But it just that when you hear 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:25.440 James Taler on the radio, you know James Taylor, and 0:52:25.480 --> 0:52:27.960 they said that there's a uniqueness to that that's important 0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:30.920 at radio. So we liked that about your voice. And 0:52:31.000 --> 0:52:33.879 so then it's funny because I want to say, really, 0:52:33.880 --> 0:52:37.040 I was just trying to sound like Crol Wilson. But 0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:40.319 eventually they signed me, and I made the record. 0:52:40.080 --> 0:52:43.320 Okay, a little bit slower from the time you sent 0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:48.560 the demos to them. How much longer did it take 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:50.000 till you got signed? 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:54.120 The first demo went out about seventy six, nineteen seventy six. Wow, 0:52:55.920 --> 0:52:56.640 for four years. 0:52:57.760 --> 0:52:59.960 And in that four years did you go into the studio? 0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:02.680 Was a Martian or was that after the deal was signed? 0:53:03.120 --> 0:53:05.160 After the deal was signed, I mean Martin was a 0:53:05.160 --> 0:53:08.279 big deal. I mean that was when Michael Austin brought 0:53:08.360 --> 0:53:10.440 us out, brought me up to California with my manager 0:53:10.560 --> 0:53:13.880 and we met and I had no idea that was 0:53:13.920 --> 0:53:15.880 actually really close to a deal, but he met. He 0:53:15.920 --> 0:53:17.239 was just wanting me to meet with one of their 0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:20.880 producers and they recommended Michael. But no about four years, 0:53:20.920 --> 0:53:23.520 I I you know, hung in there with him. But 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:26.719 I also I did try bob along the way like 0:53:26.719 --> 0:53:27.920 I went to A and M and a couple of 0:53:27.920 --> 0:53:32.360 other labels who passed. But I always really wanted to 0:53:32.400 --> 0:53:33.719 be on one of us, like I told you, so 0:53:34.239 --> 0:53:36.800 it was like, you know, your first choice at a 0:53:36.840 --> 0:53:38.880 college or something. So but I did go to a 0:53:38.920 --> 0:53:40.960 couple of labels and got passed on, and M passed 0:53:40.960 --> 0:53:45.399 on me. They had just signed Captain and Taneil kick Cohen, 0:53:45.400 --> 0:53:47.440 the head of van Ar, said, we don't need another 0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:49.280 act like that. We just signed Captain a Tanil. 0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:51.680 So how'd you get a manager and a lawyer? 0:53:53.400 --> 0:53:58.080 Well, my manager at the time was a local guy 0:53:58.840 --> 0:54:00.680 who'd played in bands early got into the management. They 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:02.359 got him Tim Nie, a really a nice guy. Managed 0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:05.279 Bruce Hornsby as well. And Tim was great and he 0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:08.799 kind of, you know, maneuvered this whole thing, you know, 0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:14.000 once we had something going, you know, he kind of 0:54:14.160 --> 0:54:17.560 massaged the deal and stepped in and worked with Water Brothers. 0:54:17.560 --> 0:54:19.319 Because I didn't have any idea of what to do. 0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:23.440 And so Tim went out to LA and he represented me, 0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:27.799 and then later after my ALBM came out not too 0:54:27.880 --> 0:54:31.759 long left that later, Tim went in with Irving and 0:54:31.840 --> 0:54:34.279 they co managed me for a while. Then eventually I 0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:40.280 just was managed by Irving. But right away Irving said, 0:54:41.080 --> 0:54:45.359 you need a lawyer, and so I got Michael Roosevelt 0:54:45.560 --> 0:54:47.319 and so right off the VAT I had a really 0:54:47.320 --> 0:54:50.840 good law firm. Can't across Michael Roosevelt. But you know 0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:55.200 with Irving, he don't. I mean, Irving came in, so 0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:57.200 that to the first record. But what I got to 0:54:57.239 --> 0:54:59.759 do was doing another record. That's when Irving, you know, 0:55:01.160 --> 0:55:04.800 really stepped up, because you know, he was like, Okay, 0:55:04.800 --> 0:55:07.280 hold on a second. You know, this guy just sold 0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:09.600 his AID records and he has a standard record deal. 0:55:09.719 --> 0:55:11.120 Let's I'm not gonna do that again, you know, in 0:55:11.239 --> 0:55:15.080 that cause so I was at Therevy for a long time, 0:55:15.160 --> 0:55:17.719 long time. In fact, I think chronologically I was within 0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:21.000 longer than any other artists at the time other than Hindley, 0:55:21.280 --> 0:55:24.560 you know. But you know, as time went on, Irving 0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:26.880 gets so big. You know, he's with Christina and all 0:55:26.880 --> 0:55:29.640 the stuff he does, and so I just I felt 0:55:29.680 --> 0:55:32.320 I needed someone who was waking up more day to 0:55:32.400 --> 0:55:34.960 day and trying to make me a buck. And nothing 0:55:34.960 --> 0:55:37.279 against Serving, but I left and went with a guy. 0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:39.319 Now he's managed me for about fifteen years. Then Toby 0:55:39.400 --> 0:55:42.239 Ludwig it's great because you know, Irving is a ruler 0:55:42.239 --> 0:55:44.080 of the world. I mean he's you know, he's busy 0:55:44.960 --> 0:55:48.719 and understandably with you know, managing you two and the 0:55:48.719 --> 0:55:50.960 Eagles and all those people. But there were some great 0:55:50.960 --> 0:55:53.680 things that happened. I mean, Don Henley I'd known because 0:55:53.719 --> 0:55:57.160 he's from Lyndon, Texas, and so I knew Don. Don 0:55:57.320 --> 0:55:59.560 sang on the record, which was huge. P and JD. 0:55:59.640 --> 0:56:02.800 Salder's sang on the first record. But then Don arranged 0:56:02.800 --> 0:56:05.040 for me to go open for the Eagles, which was 0:56:05.080 --> 0:56:10.600 a real big moment. And then Don gave my record 0:56:10.719 --> 0:56:13.160 or induce very to Stevie Nickson. I ended up opening 0:56:13.160 --> 0:56:15.200 for Fleetwood for a long time. So both those things 0:56:15.200 --> 0:56:18.799 were real big catalysts too. But having Michael McDonald on 0:56:18.800 --> 0:56:21.720 my record and Alderry Carlton, all these people at radio, 0:56:23.160 --> 0:56:26.719 that's undeniable that that gave me a leg up because 0:56:26.760 --> 0:56:29.719 you know, these DJs get fifty albums a day and 0:56:29.719 --> 0:56:31.759 they're reading the credits and they're like, who's this kid. 0:56:31.840 --> 0:56:36.680 You know, I'm McDonald, Barry Carlton, what's going on? Put 0:56:36.680 --> 0:56:40.160 it on, listen to it. So I really believe that 0:56:41.360 --> 0:56:43.360 having Michael on Brodac. The wind was huge. 0:56:44.560 --> 0:56:47.040 So how did all those people end up on the record. 0:56:47.080 --> 0:56:50.120 Were those Michael o'martian's choices or did you say I 0:56:50.160 --> 0:56:51.040 want this person? 0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:58.080 Well, Henley, I said, he's a Texan, so Texans, you know, 0:56:58.120 --> 0:57:00.840 they stick by each other. So Don would supportive of 0:57:00.960 --> 0:57:02.440 beginning it, you know deal. He said, well, you get 0:57:02.480 --> 0:57:03.680 a deal to sing on your record, you know? And 0:57:03.840 --> 0:57:05.799 I was like, okay, you said, just because he doesn't 0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:08.200 do that very much. So I got Henley and Don 0:57:08.239 --> 0:57:12.880 brought Jade in. But uh, we were at Warner Brothers Studios, 0:57:12.920 --> 0:57:15.080 which is no longer there on Compston in the Valley. 0:57:15.760 --> 0:57:17.320 I was a studio I and the Doobies are in 0:57:17.320 --> 0:57:19.640 the studio a doing Take It to the Streets and 0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:23.480 Omartyan knew McDonald from Steely Dan, so he went over 0:57:23.520 --> 0:57:25.320 and brought Michael over to listen to what we were doing 0:57:25.360 --> 0:57:29.000 McDonald and McDonald thought it was cool and he said, hey, 0:57:29.000 --> 0:57:30.600 if you want a background bugs, let me know. So 0:57:31.120 --> 0:57:32.720 we stuck on Mike in his face and he's sang, 0:57:32.760 --> 0:57:34.720 I really don't know anymore first, and then we brought 0:57:34.760 --> 0:57:36.760 him back letter for I'd like to win. But that 0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:39.960 was through Marty and Martin got Larry Carlton. I was 0:57:40.000 --> 0:57:42.680 a huge Valerie Carter Van and Lenny Waterker made it 0:57:42.760 --> 0:57:46.160 called the Valerie, and she liked the song Ted Tempelm 0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:49.760 was pretty snical let Larsen and so that came together 0:57:49.800 --> 0:57:51.840 with NICKI, which I'm so thrilled since we lost her 0:57:52.120 --> 0:57:58.880 boss Valerie too. Who else? Uh? Yeah, so and Eric 0:57:58.960 --> 0:58:02.600 Johnson of course played on my track, which nobody really 0:58:02.680 --> 0:58:04.360 knew who he was at the time, but I was 0:58:04.400 --> 0:58:06.760 determined to make sure that changed, and so he played 0:58:06.800 --> 0:58:11.200 on Mitchell Jiggelow and that kind of helped people find 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:13.840 out about him and subsequently he got a deal on orders. 0:58:13.880 --> 0:58:17.040 But yeah, so the people came different ways. But it 0:58:17.040 --> 0:58:19.960 was a pretty star studed record for nobody. 0:58:20.360 --> 0:58:23.400 Okay, people always say, hey, my first record, I went 0:58:23.440 --> 0:58:26.760 in there, I was green, I was manipulated. What was 0:58:26.800 --> 0:58:29.320 your experience in making the record and how long did 0:58:29.320 --> 0:58:30.200 it ultimately take? 0:58:31.760 --> 0:58:35.640 It took us a six weeks or so, maybe tiple months. 0:58:37.960 --> 0:58:41.120 It was a great experience because you know, Michael Elmarty 0:58:41.160 --> 0:58:44.320 and he was new as sort of a producer, but 0:58:44.440 --> 0:58:46.160 not as he'd played with log and Somebsceni did all 0:58:46.200 --> 0:58:48.720 the Seely Dance stuff. So for me, it was the 0:58:48.840 --> 0:58:51.400 perfect thing. I had this guide through this process who 0:58:51.480 --> 0:58:53.200 worked with Seely Dan, because I just wanted to be 0:58:53.320 --> 0:58:59.480 Steely Dan. So you know, Michael knew the process inside 0:58:59.480 --> 0:59:01.760 and out. We just sort of followed him and he 0:59:02.160 --> 0:59:05.480 initiated us me into that world. And as we went 0:59:05.520 --> 0:59:07.560 on and I started using more session players as I 0:59:07.600 --> 0:59:10.560 went on later that was something Michael was very comfortable 0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:12.720 with because you know, I used to gab people like that, 0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:17.120 but now the record was we were kind of for us. 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:20.040 We were just remaking our demos and then Michael was 0:59:20.360 --> 0:59:22.760 playing on it, which is brilliant. Robert play Roads, Michael 0:59:22.760 --> 0:59:25.120 played Grant and then of course some already did the strings, 0:59:25.160 --> 0:59:29.960 which were fabulous, you know, on those songs. So we 0:59:29.960 --> 0:59:35.000 were I would say it was pretty easy and seamless 0:59:35.000 --> 0:59:36.120 because we had a great producer. 0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:41.120 Okay, just a couple of little backfill You left with 0:59:41.360 --> 0:59:47.360 players from San Antonio to Austin. To what degree were 0:59:47.400 --> 0:59:50.360 these the same players and what degree did the members 0:59:50.440 --> 0:59:53.040 feel as was a band as opposed to a solo act. 0:59:55.000 --> 0:59:58.760 Well, I can't speak to it. I mean, at the time, 0:59:59.400 --> 1:00:01.200 you know, I was signed to Warner Brothers as a 1:00:01.240 --> 1:00:04.800 solo artist. I mean they I wrote the songs, I 1:00:04.840 --> 1:00:08.280 sang the songs, and I think from their view that 1:00:08.400 --> 1:00:10.480 was the entity that they wanted to sign, you know, 1:00:10.520 --> 1:00:12.680 because I was responsible. I sang all the songs. I 1:00:12.680 --> 1:00:17.040 wrote all the songs, So you know, there wasn't any 1:00:18.520 --> 1:00:20.600 in their mind that you know, I wasn't a band. 1:00:20.640 --> 1:00:23.480 I was a solo artist. Now what was in the players, 1:00:23.560 --> 1:00:25.400 I don't know. But we made that record together and 1:00:25.440 --> 1:00:28.040 they did plans and tracks on the second record. But 1:00:28.600 --> 1:00:32.360 OMARTI and you know, was used to work with studio musicians, 1:00:33.040 --> 1:00:36.160 and I had this burning desire to you know, up 1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:38.920 my game and work with those kind of people. And 1:00:39.000 --> 1:00:44.400 so Michael, you know, understood that. So with the second record, 1:00:44.640 --> 1:00:48.000 I started using some studio players like Steve gabb Ablueberry 1:00:48.000 --> 1:00:50.400 El Senior, people like that, because I said, from the 1:00:50.520 --> 1:00:53.000 very onset, I always wanted to make records like Steely 1:00:53.080 --> 1:00:55.320 Dan and the best way to do that is to 1:00:55.320 --> 1:00:58.240 get those kind of guys. But the band toured with 1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:02.880 me initially, you know, even to the second record. But 1:01:03.560 --> 1:01:06.120 I think it's just a natural evolution, at least from 1:01:06.120 --> 1:01:08.680 my standpoint as an artist, as a singer songwriter. You 1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:10.640 know what's best for my music? 1:01:11.400 --> 1:01:14.160 Okay, how did it become Christopher Cross? As you say, 1:01:14.200 --> 1:01:15.720 that's not your birth name. 1:01:18.720 --> 1:01:21.240 The studio in Austin was called Pecan Street Studios. I 1:01:21.240 --> 1:01:23.480 think it was called that anyway. Steve Shield's really great 1:01:23.480 --> 1:01:25.520 guy who owned the studio. He was dating this girl 1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:29.080 named DeVaughn and we released a little single called Talking 1:01:29.120 --> 1:01:32.320 about Her in seventy six on Steve's Little Starbars label. 1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:34.720 Eric Johnson played on it and it was a real 1:01:34.840 --> 1:01:37.440 rock and roll song. And we were at dinner one 1:01:37.520 --> 1:01:38.960 night and I was trying to think of some name 1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:41.560 I could use to, you know, go under. This was 1:01:41.640 --> 1:01:45.400 just a release of mine, and Devon said, why don't 1:01:45.400 --> 1:01:47.439 you try yourself Christopher Cross, and the DJ still sorting 1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:50.600 it to Criss Cross, and so I went okay, And 1:01:50.640 --> 1:01:52.800 that's how it became. She just suggested. I said okay, 1:01:52.840 --> 1:01:57.200 because I just figured Geffert wasn't very memorable, and I 1:01:57.240 --> 1:01:59.400 also thought there could be some privacy advantage to it. 1:01:59.480 --> 1:02:01.560 So that's how the name came out. Devon to suggest 1:02:01.600 --> 1:02:03.120 that we went with it, and we released this little 1:02:03.160 --> 1:02:05.760 single that was Christopher Cross. It was really me in 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:07.680 the studio with Eric Johnson and some of the people. 1:02:07.720 --> 1:02:10.040 And it didn't do anything, but that's kind of how 1:02:10.080 --> 1:02:10.880 the name came about. 1:02:12.120 --> 1:02:14.320 And if I look at your passport, what does it 1:02:14.440 --> 1:02:16.440 say Cross. 1:02:17.320 --> 1:02:20.200 I did a DBA pretty quickly, much to my mother's chagrin. 1:02:21.480 --> 1:02:22.680 She was not happy about it. 1:02:23.160 --> 1:02:26.880 But you never changed it legally, or did you? Yeah? 1:02:27.160 --> 1:02:30.240 I think it's I mean, I don't know. I'm not 1:02:30.280 --> 1:02:32.040 a lawyer, but I mean my past words as Cross 1:02:32.080 --> 1:02:35.720 a DBA voice. I've done business this Cross since you know, 1:02:38.480 --> 1:02:43.320 my justin my son by my first marriage goes by 1:02:43.360 --> 1:02:46.840 Getfert but Raydon Madison, my kids by my second marriage 1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:47.440 got by Cross. 1:02:48.600 --> 1:02:51.040 Do your friends call you Christopher or Chris? 1:02:52.920 --> 1:02:55.080 New friends call me Christopher, and that's what I prefer. 1:02:55.160 --> 1:02:57.160 Old friends and my brother and people like that. The 1:02:57.280 --> 1:02:59.920 brother they call me Chris. My girlfriend calls me Chris. 1:03:00.360 --> 1:03:05.160 But uh, I prefer Christopher. I think it's a really 1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:06.960 pretty name and I like it. But growing up it 1:03:06.960 --> 1:03:09.720 was Chris. But the Criss Cross thing, you know, I 1:03:09.760 --> 1:03:12.480 get mistaken for those two rapper kids too, you know, 1:03:12.600 --> 1:03:16.720 But I don't know. I like, I think Christoph's pretty named, 1:03:16.760 --> 1:03:19.120 so I prefer Christopher. But people that know me a 1:03:19.160 --> 1:03:20.280 long time just can't do it. 1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:25.120 Okay, So how long after the album was finished did 1:03:25.200 --> 1:03:25.720 it come out? 1:03:27.480 --> 1:03:32.560 Well, it was supposed to come out I think before 1:03:32.640 --> 1:03:36.840 the first of the year and eighty. But Eddie Rosenblatt, 1:03:36.840 --> 1:03:38.959 who was one of the vps at Warners, said, look, 1:03:39.040 --> 1:03:41.040 this record's just going to get lost in the Christmas mess. 1:03:41.080 --> 1:03:43.560 Let's hold it. And it was brilliant on his part 1:03:43.560 --> 1:03:45.520 because they held it till after January. It was released 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:47.000 in January and then we got a little bit of 1:03:47.000 --> 1:03:50.360 a hearing and so it came out and boom. You know, 1:03:51.000 --> 1:03:53.160 I'd like to win, would have it never made its 1:03:53.280 --> 1:03:56.320 number one because Blondie had called me and it was 1:03:56.360 --> 1:03:58.920 only a single, so it kept us out of the 1:03:58.920 --> 1:04:02.680 singles charts being number one. But then Sailing, which I 1:04:02.800 --> 1:04:06.200 was not in favor of releasing MO released it then 1:04:06.280 --> 1:04:10.720 went to number one. But so yeah, about three months 1:04:10.720 --> 1:04:13.200 after we went back to Austin. We were planning more 1:04:13.200 --> 1:04:16.200 cover gigs and stuff, and it came out in January 1:04:16.280 --> 1:04:20.600 and then the very first tour, I did you know 1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:22.840 my chronology made I'd be perfect. I apologize this so 1:04:22.920 --> 1:04:25.240 long ago. You know, it's like asking Rango if he 1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:28.320 used a te towel on tax Man, you know, can't. 1:04:28.640 --> 1:04:30.440 People asked me, did you just a click on your record? 1:04:30.480 --> 1:04:31.919 And he was like, I don't know, I don't think. 1:04:31.960 --> 1:04:36.560 So my first tour was I got to open for 1:04:36.640 --> 1:04:39.240 Bonnie Raid because Bonnie was on Warders, and so they 1:04:39.440 --> 1:04:41.960 sent me out for six weeks with Bonnie, which was 1:04:42.000 --> 1:04:46.160 the perfect indoctrination into the world of touring because she's 1:04:46.240 --> 1:04:49.880 just fantastic and so and she was so sweet and 1:04:51.160 --> 1:04:53.680 you know, it was it was great. So I got 1:04:53.680 --> 1:04:56.520 to do that. And then shortly after that this went down, 1:04:56.560 --> 1:04:58.400 took me out with the Eagles, and that I did 1:04:58.480 --> 1:05:09.000 quite a few things with him. So it's all pretty heady, Okay. 1:05:09.760 --> 1:05:13.400 How did the painting become the cover? And of course 1:05:13.480 --> 1:05:16.920 many people felt that it was a painting because you 1:05:17.040 --> 1:05:21.560 weren't photogenic? Was that even an issue? What went on there? 1:05:23.400 --> 1:05:28.120 Well? Through all these incarnations and musicians that group in Houston, 1:05:28.200 --> 1:05:30.520 where I met my first wife. Our drummer's name is 1:05:30.600 --> 1:05:34.360 Jimmy Newhouse, great drummer. He didn't continue playing, but he 1:05:34.440 --> 1:05:37.520 was incredible. He was also a painter and one day 1:05:37.560 --> 1:05:41.760 he brought in this album shaped watercolor of the Lagunsium 1:05:41.800 --> 1:05:43.640 of Flamingo. Now, I didn't have the green, it was 1:05:43.720 --> 1:05:47.080 just all the watercoating. And he said, I think this 1:05:47.600 --> 1:05:50.400 looks like your music, and so put it on the wall, 1:05:50.520 --> 1:05:52.880 kind of like a focal point, you know, in a 1:05:53.000 --> 1:05:55.640 delivery of a baby or something. He just that was like, hey, 1:05:55.640 --> 1:05:59.320 that's our album cover. And when we went to Warner Brothers, 1:05:59.360 --> 1:06:01.320 we showed it to him, and you know, we were 1:06:01.520 --> 1:06:03.760 one of fifty new acts, so like, yeah, okay, that 1:06:03.840 --> 1:06:05.680 looks okay. And they sent it to a guy Naed 1:06:05.680 --> 1:06:07.760 Floroid Holmes in Atlanta, who put the green around it 1:06:07.800 --> 1:06:09.960 and all that, but the initial and he did the 1:06:10.000 --> 1:06:14.280 back nighttime scene. But that initial image was was created 1:06:14.280 --> 1:06:20.320 by Jimmy Newhouse. And yes, I would say that my 1:06:20.360 --> 1:06:25.800 physical insecurities, It's not so much that I requested that 1:06:25.840 --> 1:06:28.919 I not be on the record, but I was relieved, 1:06:29.320 --> 1:06:32.520 you know, because I didn't feel terrible. I felt self 1:06:32.520 --> 1:06:34.680 conscious about my weight. I've lost a lot of weight now, 1:06:34.720 --> 1:06:38.160 but you know, at the time I didn't feel particularly 1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:40.880 like sex simple. So I was happy to have the 1:06:40.880 --> 1:06:44.040 album be kind of anonymous. But Warners seemed fine with it, 1:06:44.120 --> 1:06:45.480 and of course maybe they were fine with it because 1:06:45.480 --> 1:06:48.320 they didn't feel I was pootogenic. Whatever the case it's. 1:06:48.400 --> 1:06:52.440 You know, it's become pretty iconic, and it stayed because 1:06:52.800 --> 1:06:55.760 like Linda Ronstadt's heart, I mean, Flamingo's just carried through 1:06:55.760 --> 1:06:58.320 now and everybody wants to read all the significance of it, 1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:00.800 and there really isn't any other than it, just a 1:07:00.880 --> 1:07:03.160 corp of fate. But but yeah, I would say that's 1:07:03.160 --> 1:07:05.680 all true. And I think that I'm much more comfortable now. 1:07:05.720 --> 1:07:11.680 But you know, and I did Howard Stern Robin said something. 1:07:11.800 --> 1:07:13.880 Howard was being so nice to me that Robin had 1:07:13.880 --> 1:07:16.240 to mix it up, so she said, I was I 1:07:16.320 --> 1:07:18.080 was so disappointed when I saw you, because she said 1:07:18.080 --> 1:07:20.360 I loved your voice, but you didn't look like Kenny Loggins. 1:07:21.640 --> 1:07:24.640 And Howard proceeded to jump in and defend me. They 1:07:24.680 --> 1:07:26.120 wait till there's a good looking man, Riddy, what are 1:07:26.120 --> 1:07:28.600 you talking about? He said, Well, listen his hair, I mean, 1:07:28.640 --> 1:07:30.160 he said, what is he supposed to go get plugs 1:07:30.160 --> 1:07:31.680 in his head? And looked like somebody shot him in 1:07:31.680 --> 1:07:33.680 the name of the head as shot in there with 1:07:33.760 --> 1:07:38.280 a head with a nail gun. And I always joked 1:07:38.280 --> 1:07:41.600 with people that you know, if I look like Brad Pitt, 1:07:41.760 --> 1:07:43.800 forget it, I'd be like bigger than the Beatles, you know. 1:07:44.400 --> 1:07:47.919 But that's all probably true, and that's why the MTV thing. 1:07:48.560 --> 1:07:50.240 I did make a few videos, but it was very 1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:52.320 It was very reluctant on my part because I wasn't 1:07:52.400 --> 1:07:54.360 used to the visual visual medium. And I think the 1:07:54.880 --> 1:07:58.360 Buggles radio video killed the radio stars is very was 1:07:58.440 --> 1:08:00.920 very prophetic and true. 1:08:01.160 --> 1:08:03.280 So when did you first hear yourself on the radio? 1:08:05.200 --> 1:08:08.200 Well, you know, the album popped pretty quick. So I 1:08:08.280 --> 1:08:10.920 was in the car and rode like the wind came 1:08:10.960 --> 1:08:14.680 on and it's it's a little like hearing your voice 1:08:14.680 --> 1:08:17.160 on an answering machine, you know. It's a little strange 1:08:17.280 --> 1:08:19.760 in the beginning, but I don't know. And then I 1:08:19.760 --> 1:08:22.000 started hearing it everywhere, so it was it was pretty 1:08:22.000 --> 1:08:24.920 fantastic that it all happened so fast. Bub when right 1:08:24.920 --> 1:08:27.800 out the wind came out, and then suddenly with these 1:08:27.880 --> 1:08:30.080 multiple singles and pretty we had never be the same. 1:08:30.120 --> 1:08:31.960 And then pretty soon people were buying the record, the 1:08:32.000 --> 1:08:33.960 album because there were so many singles. They just bought 1:08:33.960 --> 1:08:37.960 the record that it was just all happening, you know, 1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:41.000 And then I was playing these big shows and playing 1:08:41.000 --> 1:08:43.400 at the super Dome with the Eagles for seventy thousand people. 1:08:43.439 --> 1:08:48.639 It was overwhelming, so you know, I heard on the radio. 1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:50.920 But then it didn't take too long before the train 1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:52.800 sped up, and it was I was just kind of 1:08:52.800 --> 1:08:56.000 hanging on to pay the truth because my personal life 1:08:56.080 --> 1:08:58.439 was falling apart, and you know, my marriage was falling apart, 1:08:58.479 --> 1:08:59.800 and you know, there's a lot going on. 1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:02.880 Why is your marriage falling apart? 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:06.360 Uh? Well, I knew the girl two weeks before I 1:09:06.400 --> 1:09:08.680 met her, and as Rob said, this is not going 1:09:08.720 --> 1:09:10.920 to end well. So I won't drag it through all 1:09:10.960 --> 1:09:13.080 the tales, but it was. It was destined to fail 1:09:13.080 --> 1:09:16.280 from the beginning, probably, but I think you know uh 1:09:17.439 --> 1:09:22.160 that you know, it's it's probably scary for my ex 1:09:22.160 --> 1:09:24.400 wife at the time that everything was happening so fast 1:09:24.479 --> 1:09:26.519 and maybe shouldn't feel like she was a part of 1:09:26.520 --> 1:09:29.320 it or whatever. I really don't know, but like a 1:09:29.320 --> 1:09:31.000 lot of marriages, that was falling apart, So I was 1:09:31.040 --> 1:09:33.760 dealing with that at the same time I'm dealing with 1:09:34.320 --> 1:09:37.120 all this stuff. You know, that was demands, people wanting 1:09:37.160 --> 1:09:39.720 me to do everything, and you know, I took my 1:09:39.760 --> 1:09:41.519 son to Disneyland and we had to leave because there 1:09:41.520 --> 1:09:44.920 were too many people. Bugget, you know, it's crazy, and 1:09:45.000 --> 1:09:46.120 I was just an army brat. 1:09:46.120 --> 1:09:51.559 So so when the album was finished, forget what anybody 1:09:51.560 --> 1:09:54.080 else says, did you feel that it was going to 1:09:54.120 --> 1:09:55.160 be successful? 1:10:00.680 --> 1:10:03.760 No, Warners. I'd heard from people at Warners that if 1:10:03.760 --> 1:10:06.880 you make or if you sell fifty thousand records, they'll 1:10:06.960 --> 1:10:09.760 let you do another record. So my attitude was if 1:10:09.800 --> 1:10:13.439 I can, if I can sell fifty thousand records and 1:10:13.479 --> 1:10:15.800 get them to let me do another record. By my 1:10:15.960 --> 1:10:18.160 third record, I think I can have something on the radio. 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:22.360 That's what I thought. I had no idea that this stuff. 1:10:23.439 --> 1:10:26.519 In fact, Warners, even the an Ar department were unsure 1:10:26.560 --> 1:10:29.479 about the songs, as I told you, and they said, 1:10:29.479 --> 1:10:33.240 we still don't hear a hit. So I heard on 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:35.760 the radio this boss Gag song. I'm a big fan 1:10:35.840 --> 1:10:39.280 of Bozz Camera Action do it Again. And it starts 1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:42.280 with the chorus. And my song form had always been 1:10:42.280 --> 1:10:46.280 the Beatles, you know, verse, chorus, verse, chorus bridge. I said, 1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:48.320 that's what's I gotta start a song with the chorus. 1:10:48.560 --> 1:10:50.400 If I wrote this song, say of the Mine, which 1:10:50.479 --> 1:10:53.400 Nico Lets sang on and Lenny Mordakers said that's a hit, 1:10:54.360 --> 1:10:58.360 that's a radio record. Well, Amarty and with all respect 1:10:58.400 --> 1:11:00.120 went against that and said, I think right, like the 1:11:00.120 --> 1:11:02.040 Wind's got four on the floor coming out of disco 1:11:02.080 --> 1:11:04.600 and all that, I think it's that's what we go 1:11:04.680 --> 1:11:08.200 with that. He was right, but either way, no, I 1:11:08.280 --> 1:11:11.240 had no inclination that anything would happen. I was just 1:11:11.320 --> 1:11:13.160 hoping to sell fifty thousand records and get to make 1:11:13.160 --> 1:11:13.679 out of the record. 1:11:14.200 --> 1:11:17.479 Okay, so you're opening for Bonnie Raid. At what point 1:11:17.600 --> 1:11:21.599 are people there to see you and reacting to your 1:11:21.720 --> 1:11:26.120 music with Bonnie Raid they knew with the Eagles, at 1:11:26.160 --> 1:11:29.040 what point were you not just the opening act but 1:11:29.080 --> 1:11:30.560 people were fans? 1:11:31.960 --> 1:11:35.040 Well, you know, I'm sure there were. I think I 1:11:35.160 --> 1:11:37.519 have some memory of we're at some point but brought 1:11:37.560 --> 1:11:39.160 out The Wind was up in the charts, and Bond 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:40.559 came to me and said, I think I should open 1:11:40.600 --> 1:11:45.519 for you because she's so funny like that. But you know, 1:11:46.280 --> 1:11:48.519 I'm sure there were people. But you know, when you open, 1:11:48.600 --> 1:11:50.719 when you're playing with people like Bonnie Ray and the Eagles, 1:11:51.280 --> 1:11:56.280 I mean, these are incredibly popular, you know, they're rock stars. 1:11:56.280 --> 1:12:00.519 So I don't know I mean, I think I always 1:12:00.560 --> 1:12:02.679 got the feeling, like, especially when we're out with Fleetwood, 1:12:02.680 --> 1:12:04.720 that you know, they just people would just wanted us 1:12:04.720 --> 1:12:06.320 to get off the stage so they could see Fleetwood. 1:12:06.479 --> 1:12:09.160 You know, they just because they're they're Fleetwood back and 1:12:09.200 --> 1:12:10.640 they're the Eagles all that. So I didn't get a 1:12:10.680 --> 1:12:14.160 sense that, as I said Bob, at the time I 1:12:14.200 --> 1:12:16.280 walked out on stage, I had nine songs to play, 1:12:16.360 --> 1:12:19.320 It's all I had. And it was just overwhelming for me, 1:12:19.560 --> 1:12:22.280 you know, just to see all these people and to 1:12:22.360 --> 1:12:24.840 try to somehow step up my game from being a 1:12:24.840 --> 1:12:29.400 local club guy to being this successful pop entity or 1:12:29.439 --> 1:12:32.200 whatever that I was clearly not prepared, you know for it. 1:12:32.600 --> 1:12:36.120 I did my best, but I don't know that anybody 1:12:36.120 --> 1:12:37.920 could do a whole lot, you know. It's just what 1:12:38.000 --> 1:12:41.080 happened to me is very unusual. It was so meteoric, 1:12:41.240 --> 1:12:44.360 so quick that you just could barely capt your breath, 1:12:44.360 --> 1:12:44.559 you know. 1:12:45.200 --> 1:12:45.400 Yeah. 1:12:45.439 --> 1:12:46.800 The Grammy, So I had no idea I was going 1:12:46.880 --> 1:12:49.200 to win anything. I mean, they told me you might 1:12:49.240 --> 1:12:51.719 win Best New Artists, And after I got that Grammy, 1:12:51.760 --> 1:12:54.840 I'm like, I am upset for life. 1:12:56.880 --> 1:13:00.680 Going back, you talk about being green, was it just 1:13:00.840 --> 1:13:03.880 raw experience or did you learn certain things how to 1:13:03.920 --> 1:13:04.920 be a better performer. 1:13:06.120 --> 1:13:09.840 Well, they're being very kind calling me a performer. I 1:13:09.880 --> 1:13:12.840 don't think I'm an entertainer. I'm a singer songwriter and 1:13:12.880 --> 1:13:16.800 I think that that's what I do, and I come 1:13:16.880 --> 1:13:19.640 out and play my songs and represent them with the 1:13:19.640 --> 1:13:21.720 best musicians I can, the best production I can. I 1:13:21.720 --> 1:13:24.639 think that's gotten better and better and better over the years. 1:13:25.240 --> 1:13:32.800 But you know, I never I was always too shy 1:13:32.840 --> 1:13:35.200 and everything, like I could never be Hendrick's or you know, 1:13:36.400 --> 1:13:40.160 jump around, and it just wasn't. My physicality wasn't. I 1:13:40.160 --> 1:13:42.639 had this really lilting voice coming out as a big guy, 1:13:42.680 --> 1:13:46.120 and I just I don't know, I never so performing stretch. 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:49.360 I think what I do is I'm a singer songwriter 1:13:49.439 --> 1:13:53.559 that tries to present his material in the most you know, professional, 1:13:53.640 --> 1:13:55.799 respectful way I can. But I wouldn't really call myself 1:13:55.800 --> 1:13:58.360 a performer entertainer, you know what I mean. That's for 1:13:58.439 --> 1:14:00.960 guys like you know, Freddie Mercury. You know. 1:14:01.880 --> 1:14:07.320 Okay, so you're a local working musician, your songs on 1:14:07.360 --> 1:14:11.559 the radio, you're opening for Household, amnach Day, Max. What 1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:14.679 point do you start thinking about money, how much money 1:14:14.680 --> 1:14:15.320 you're going to make. 1:14:18.439 --> 1:14:22.880 Well, it takes a little while because you know, it's 1:14:22.880 --> 1:14:24.800 not like right after it's the hit, Sunday's a pack 1:14:24.840 --> 1:14:29.720 a pile of money. I mean it, uh, it kind 1:14:29.720 --> 1:14:32.120 of creeps up on you, you know, and then you'll 1:14:33.800 --> 1:14:37.439 like I heard that. I read in Clapton's book that 1:14:37.520 --> 1:14:40.599 he saw George Harrison's house and he Clapton and Cream 1:14:40.680 --> 1:14:42.719 they had apartments in London. They were on a stipend 1:14:42.720 --> 1:14:46.000 from Robert Stigwood. And Eric's book he said that he 1:14:46.080 --> 1:14:47.720 came back from going to George's house and said to 1:14:47.800 --> 1:14:49.519 Robert Stigbot, well, I hope someday I can have a 1:14:49.560 --> 1:14:51.960 house like that. You know, I saw one on the 1:14:52.000 --> 1:14:54.320 way back to It was for sales like six hundred pounds, 1:14:54.360 --> 1:14:57.519 and maybe some day Robert stigwould said, you can afford that, 1:14:57.560 --> 1:14:59.439 no problem. I just put you guys on a stipend 1:14:59.479 --> 1:15:01.080 to keep your and blow on your money. But you 1:15:01.080 --> 1:15:03.280 want to go buy that house and George's they went 1:15:03.320 --> 1:15:06.360 for six grand, go ahead. But Eric had no idea 1:15:06.439 --> 1:15:08.760 that he could afford that. So I think it's the 1:15:08.760 --> 1:15:10.960 same with me. So I think it struck me when 1:15:10.960 --> 1:15:13.559 I bought a house. We lived in an apartment, and 1:15:13.640 --> 1:15:17.200 I talked to my people and said, you know, kind 1:15:17.200 --> 1:15:19.920 of buy a house. And I said, sure. It wasn't 1:15:20.120 --> 1:15:22.839 anything fancy, but you know, and then I bought a Porsche. 1:15:22.920 --> 1:15:25.080 You know, all the usual things that people do. But 1:15:27.240 --> 1:15:29.000 you know, you acclimated that pretty quickly. 1:15:30.840 --> 1:15:34.559 Okay, the album is a huge success. I buy the albums, 1:15:34.600 --> 1:15:38.000 got all these signals on it. You win the Grammys. 1:15:38.160 --> 1:15:43.360 At the time, the Grammys didn't have quite the impact 1:15:43.439 --> 1:15:47.320 across the industry amongst pit people. So someone like me, 1:15:47.439 --> 1:15:50.320 what happens at the Grammys, I pay attention, but I'm 1:15:50.360 --> 1:15:53.400 not reacting. The reason I bring all this up was 1:15:53.840 --> 1:15:57.519 there's a perception that there was a backlash of you 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:03.040 having all this success. Did you feel a backlash? 1:16:03.479 --> 1:16:08.160 Uh? No, not really. I mean I think for me, 1:16:09.560 --> 1:16:12.400 the Grammys. The thing that I love about the Grammys 1:16:12.400 --> 1:16:14.400 and the Oscars and Imans and Tony's or they're voted 1:16:14.439 --> 1:16:17.479 by members of the community, your peers, you know, And 1:16:17.520 --> 1:16:20.519 so for me, that's what meant the most to me 1:16:20.640 --> 1:16:24.800 is that the other artists, musicians and producers voted my 1:16:24.840 --> 1:16:26.640 record the best record of the year, you know, And 1:16:26.760 --> 1:16:30.439 so you know, I didn't beat Sergeant Pepper. I mean, 1:16:31.200 --> 1:16:32.680 there were some good albums up that year, but I 1:16:32.680 --> 1:16:36.280 mean so I just sort of accepted that as validations 1:16:36.280 --> 1:16:38.960 that these that year. You know, I made a good 1:16:38.960 --> 1:16:43.800 record and people rewarded me with it. But I think that, 1:16:45.520 --> 1:16:51.519 you know, there maybe at times you'd hear things other 1:16:51.640 --> 1:16:54.240 artists would make comments, but it was rare, you know, 1:16:54.360 --> 1:16:56.280 somebody would say, oh, I don't get that, you know, 1:16:56.320 --> 1:17:00.920 what's the big deal with him or whatever. You know, 1:17:01.479 --> 1:17:05.720 there's no I never I don't think I really felt that. 1:17:05.800 --> 1:17:08.200 I think that I was just kind of I accepted it. 1:17:08.200 --> 1:17:11.000 And what meant so much to me, as I said it, 1:17:11.080 --> 1:17:13.759 was that the way the voting is now, the Grammys 1:17:13.760 --> 1:17:15.800 have changed a lot, it's gotten to be this huge spectacle, 1:17:15.840 --> 1:17:19.439 but at the time it was sort of a reward 1:17:19.720 --> 1:17:21.640 for your work, where your peers said you did the 1:17:21.640 --> 1:17:23.200 best work of the year. And I really took that 1:17:23.280 --> 1:17:23.679 to heart. 1:17:24.439 --> 1:17:27.000 So what point in this art do you start thinking 1:17:27.040 --> 1:17:28.559 about the follow up record? 1:17:31.400 --> 1:17:35.880 I'm always writing, but you know, the sophomore jinks is 1:17:36.200 --> 1:17:40.040 it's tough. I think it's tough for anybody who goes 1:17:40.080 --> 1:17:41.800 to the best New Artist syndrome, you know, you've got 1:17:41.800 --> 1:17:44.719 people like Hornsby and Rickie Lee Jones, Tracy Chapman, anybody 1:17:44.800 --> 1:17:47.800 that wins it. You know, it's it's a tough You're 1:17:47.880 --> 1:17:50.680 you're a tough act to follow. And so I did 1:17:50.800 --> 1:17:53.240 have that on my mouth. But I was writing, and 1:17:53.600 --> 1:17:55.840 I was in sort of a romantic period of my life. 1:17:55.840 --> 1:17:58.880 And so the second album, Another Page, had a lot 1:17:58.880 --> 1:18:03.800 of ballots on it. And I suppose if I had 1:18:03.840 --> 1:18:06.680 released a record like Doctor Faith, which is one of 1:18:06.680 --> 1:18:10.360 my later albums that's more eclectic like the first record, 1:18:10.360 --> 1:18:12.920 that probably would have been better. But you don't control 1:18:12.960 --> 1:18:15.160 your process. I wrote the songs I wrote at the time. 1:18:15.400 --> 1:18:17.439 You know, it sounds like Word's a Wisdom and talking 1:18:17.479 --> 1:18:20.800 my sleep and you uh. In fact, you know all 1:18:20.880 --> 1:18:22.280 right was the last song I wrote, because it was 1:18:22.320 --> 1:18:24.679 sort of an attempt at, you know, having a radio song. 1:18:24.720 --> 1:18:26.960 But so the album maybe it was a little mellow, 1:18:27.000 --> 1:18:29.360 but their fans of mine, that's their favorite record, my 1:18:29.400 --> 1:18:33.439 second record. So but I couldn't have controlled it anyway, Bob, 1:18:33.439 --> 1:18:38.240 because I wasn't writing purposely, trying to write hits or anything. 1:18:38.400 --> 1:18:41.000 I was just doing what I'd always done, you know, 1:18:41.240 --> 1:18:43.120 just make make songs. 1:18:43.760 --> 1:18:46.599 So you didn't feel self conscious, you didn't feel under 1:18:46.600 --> 1:18:50.200 the gun. You just felt new album, new songs, that's it. 1:18:51.600 --> 1:18:54.559 Yeah, I just, I mean I was too stupid and 1:18:54.600 --> 1:18:57.240 I even, you know, to realize it. But yeah, I 1:18:57.280 --> 1:18:59.280 was just excited to get back in the studio, and 1:18:59.360 --> 1:19:02.679 especially after working with Steve Gad and these kind of people, 1:19:02.760 --> 1:19:05.400 So that was very exciting for me. But also I 1:19:05.439 --> 1:19:07.960 was on the road. I mean, I wasn't even in 1:19:08.000 --> 1:19:09.920 the studio when they mixed Arthur's theme. I was on 1:19:09.960 --> 1:19:11.760 the road. I mean, I was trying to figure out 1:19:11.840 --> 1:19:13.400 how can I get in the studio and spend a 1:19:13.400 --> 1:19:16.080 couple of weeks doing that with all these other demands. 1:19:15.760 --> 1:19:16.320 On my time. 1:19:17.080 --> 1:19:20.000 So it was again like a whirlwind. So I didn't 1:19:20.000 --> 1:19:21.719 have a whole lot of time to sit around and ponder. 1:19:22.680 --> 1:19:25.840 For me, I just was kind of it was a 1:19:25.920 --> 1:19:28.360 rushing river, and I was just kind of hanging off 1:19:28.360 --> 1:19:30.719 for dear life. Like I said so, But writing wise, 1:19:30.760 --> 1:19:33.360 I just I've always these twelve albums that I've made. 1:19:33.840 --> 1:19:37.920 They're sincere, They're just that's what. That's when Rob Boys 1:19:38.000 --> 1:19:39.800 used to say, even when the later records didn't get 1:19:39.800 --> 1:19:42.160 as much attention, he'd say, we do this because it's 1:19:42.160 --> 1:19:42.839 what we do. 1:19:44.240 --> 1:19:46.559 Now. My favorite song of yours period is on the 1:19:46.600 --> 1:19:50.639 second album Think of Laura, which ultimately is blown up 1:19:50.920 --> 1:19:53.559 when it's on General Hospital. Tell me about that. 1:19:55.439 --> 1:19:59.840 Well, Laura Carter was a really good friend of my 1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:08.600 at the time, and Laura was tragically killed by a 1:20:08.640 --> 1:20:11.959 really terrible random shooting at her college, Dennisen in Ohio, 1:20:12.520 --> 1:20:16.080 and so I really they were all East coast and 1:20:16.120 --> 1:20:18.280 I was West coast, and I was, you know, after 1:20:18.280 --> 1:20:19.960 I got the news about Lura being killed, I was 1:20:20.280 --> 1:20:22.439 obviously very emotional, and I don't know, I just sat 1:20:22.439 --> 1:20:24.080 on my bed at my rent, I had a house 1:20:24.120 --> 1:20:27.920 in Palisades in California, and just wrote the song. Came 1:20:27.920 --> 1:20:31.960 out pretty quickly, and I think kind of the good 1:20:31.960 --> 1:20:35.960 ones generally do that. So I recorded it and then 1:20:37.840 --> 1:20:40.000 I asked her parents if it's okay if I put 1:20:40.000 --> 1:20:42.360 it on the record, because I really wrote it for her, 1:20:42.960 --> 1:20:45.120 and her parents were really gracious and said, well, maybe 1:20:45.120 --> 1:20:46.840 you can bring some solace to someone else, because she 1:20:46.880 --> 1:20:50.640 was their only child. And so I released it. And 1:20:50.680 --> 1:20:53.480 then Tony Geary, who was on was Luke on the 1:20:53.520 --> 1:20:58.280 soap opera The Genie Francis that played the Laura character 1:20:58.360 --> 1:21:02.080 had left to go pursued acting career in films and 1:21:02.160 --> 1:21:04.920 they rady suffered stuff. So Tony was a big fan 1:21:04.960 --> 1:21:06.599 of that record and got the idea to bring her 1:21:06.640 --> 1:21:13.960 back using the song. Unfortunately, I wasn't I wouldn't have 1:21:14.000 --> 1:21:14.680 been a favor of that. 1:21:14.840 --> 1:21:16.679 But there's a rule. 1:21:16.760 --> 1:21:18.360 Maybe it's different now, but at the time, if they 1:21:18.360 --> 1:21:20.120 don't play enough of it, they don't need a license. 1:21:20.439 --> 1:21:22.479 So they would just play the Hey Law, you know, 1:21:22.920 --> 1:21:25.719 and just ghosted in and they brought the Genie Francis 1:21:25.760 --> 1:21:28.400 character back. But I had no control. I couldn't stop 1:21:28.439 --> 1:21:31.519 it because I felt particularly bad for Laura's parents, who 1:21:31.600 --> 1:21:34.280 I'd just trying to honor their daughter, and then suddenly 1:21:34.320 --> 1:21:37.679 it's become this you know, but you know, it certainly 1:21:37.680 --> 1:21:40.640 helped the song get a lot of attention, but stupidly, 1:21:40.720 --> 1:21:42.200 if I could have stopped it, I would have because 1:21:42.200 --> 1:21:44.800 I just felt this a very personal thing and it 1:21:44.840 --> 1:21:47.160 wasn't meant to be, you know, a prop at a 1:21:47.160 --> 1:21:47.719 TV show. 1:21:49.520 --> 1:21:53.120 So you continue to make records, they're all get a 1:21:53.120 --> 1:21:57.960 lot of publicity marketing, but commercially they're less successful. What 1:21:58.040 --> 1:22:02.400 did that feel like on the inside. 1:22:02.680 --> 1:22:07.080 Well, it's disappointing, but at the same time, I had 1:22:07.080 --> 1:22:11.040 to remind myself that, you know, this kind of meteoric 1:22:11.120 --> 1:22:13.320 success I had, it's incredibly rare, So how do you 1:22:13.320 --> 1:22:18.880 sustain that. It's very hard to sustain. So the Beatles 1:22:18.880 --> 1:22:20.760 did it. People do it. But you know, I just 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:23.240 I felt that, you know, I was very blessed to 1:22:23.280 --> 1:22:26.240 have happened to be what happened and gave me a foundation. 1:22:26.360 --> 1:22:28.280 I'm still turning. I'm talking to Bob Left. That's a 1:22:28.320 --> 1:22:30.479 meet up. Come on, It's like I'm out turing. So 1:22:30.600 --> 1:22:35.720 I met the Pope. So I don't know. I just 1:22:35.880 --> 1:22:37.720 it was it's again, it's all about the work. And 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:39.360 I said at one point I did have this sort 1:22:39.360 --> 1:22:42.200 of self doubt and I asked Rob, why do we 1:22:42.280 --> 1:22:44.400 keep doing this? We keep making these records that are 1:22:44.560 --> 1:22:46.800 I think better than that We've done it yet he said, 1:22:46.840 --> 1:22:49.080 it's because it's what we do, you know, And that's true. 1:22:49.400 --> 1:22:54.120 So we were always doing them again back to joy 1:22:54.479 --> 1:22:56.439 as the soundhole on my knee, you know, doing it 1:22:56.439 --> 1:22:58.280 because that's what we do. So we did them, and 1:22:58.360 --> 1:23:00.160 I think the records have gotten better and better. Had 1:23:00.320 --> 1:23:02.400 an now like doctor Faith or secret Lout of these 1:23:02.439 --> 1:23:05.719 later ones that I made. You know, there I think 1:23:05.720 --> 1:23:07.960 to me as good as anything I've done better, probably 1:23:07.960 --> 1:23:09.680 as far as the number of good songs on there 1:23:09.720 --> 1:23:11.320 and the quality of the production and all that stuff. 1:23:11.320 --> 1:23:14.400 I've I've gotten better with age. But and the people 1:23:14.400 --> 1:23:16.439 that discover those records and like them would say that, 1:23:16.479 --> 1:23:18.760 but you know, on a on a bigger scale, No, 1:23:18.920 --> 1:23:22.880 But it's okay because I've you know, I had my 1:23:23.240 --> 1:23:26.840 turn at the trough and I'm doing fine. You know, 1:23:26.880 --> 1:23:28.840 I've been able to support my family and have a 1:23:28.840 --> 1:23:30.760 good life and do what I love to do. 1:23:30.800 --> 1:23:34.000 You know, how did it end with Warner Brothers? What 1:23:34.000 --> 1:23:34.599 did they say? 1:23:36.120 --> 1:23:41.439 Well, the you know, one last thing I was gonna 1:23:41.439 --> 1:23:43.240 say about but no, somebody like Stinging. He came from 1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:45.120 the police, he came from a rock background. So he 1:23:45.200 --> 1:23:47.200 built a foundation with that, and those kind of fans 1:23:47.200 --> 1:23:50.000 are very loyal, you know, and it's totally deserved. And 1:23:50.000 --> 1:23:52.640 then he created this amazing career on his own. That 1:23:52.680 --> 1:23:54.400 one in the case, Alvo was more of a pop 1:23:54.560 --> 1:23:56.439 kind of idle kind of person, and they tend to 1:23:56.479 --> 1:23:59.519 be more more. I think it's it's hard to sustay 1:23:59.600 --> 1:24:03.360 something like that. Well, Warners After the second record, we 1:24:03.520 --> 1:24:05.120 did well, but not as well as the first record. 1:24:06.439 --> 1:24:08.720 I had changed management because irving with GMCA, and I 1:24:08.840 --> 1:24:10.760 started being managed by Sandy Gallen, and one of the 1:24:10.800 --> 1:24:13.120 guys in his office said, you need to make a 1:24:13.120 --> 1:24:15.080 more rock record, show your guitar playing and do that 1:24:15.120 --> 1:24:17.559 kind of thing. So it made Every Turn of the 1:24:17.560 --> 1:24:19.519 World my third record that didn't have a flamingo on. 1:24:19.560 --> 1:24:21.000 It had me in a race car because I raced 1:24:21.040 --> 1:24:23.400 cards for a while. It was a very edgy kind 1:24:23.400 --> 1:24:27.840 of more rock record, and the single rush I reat 1:24:27.880 --> 1:24:29.920 with Warner's wonted release Every Turn of the World, which 1:24:29.960 --> 1:24:33.240 is more of a rock pop tie track. But Sandy's 1:24:33.240 --> 1:24:35.200 people want to release Charmed the Snake, which is this 1:24:35.479 --> 1:24:41.280 very aggressive kind of avant garde record, and pop radio 1:24:41.280 --> 1:24:43.240 couldn't play it because it was too heavy for them. 1:24:43.560 --> 1:24:45.920 Rock radio wouldn't play it because it's some Christopher Cross, 1:24:45.960 --> 1:24:49.720 and so the record didn't do anything. Then finally Lenny said, 1:24:49.840 --> 1:24:52.000 Lady Walker, so just go make a Christopher Cross record. 1:24:52.000 --> 1:24:53.320 So then I made Back on My Mind, which I 1:24:53.320 --> 1:24:55.920 think is actually quite a good record, but the love 1:24:55.960 --> 1:24:59.360 and feeling was gone by then. They just, you know, 1:24:59.720 --> 1:25:02.519 it was too long. After that, I think that possibly 1:25:02.560 --> 1:25:05.080 that things started to transition and it became DreamWorks and 1:25:05.120 --> 1:25:07.920 all that anyway, But it was just sort of Bonnie 1:25:08.000 --> 1:25:10.960 left and went to Capital and where she had a 1:25:11.000 --> 1:25:15.040 massive hit, and so it was just sort of agreed that, 1:25:15.120 --> 1:25:18.240 you know, it was over, like a marriage or anything else. 1:25:18.280 --> 1:25:20.680 It'd been a good run, but probably the best time 1:25:20.720 --> 1:25:23.200 I move on. And I couldn't really argue with it, 1:25:23.240 --> 1:25:25.760 because you know, part of me, I suppose you always 1:25:25.800 --> 1:25:30.519 blame the record company. Wasn't their fault. But so I 1:25:30.520 --> 1:25:33.559 I left, and I moved up to Santa Barbara and 1:25:34.240 --> 1:25:35.720 was not doing anything for quite a while. And then 1:25:35.880 --> 1:25:37.640 I got a call from my attorney who had some 1:25:37.680 --> 1:25:40.080 money from Japan. Some Japanese label wanted me to make 1:25:40.080 --> 1:25:43.080 a record. So I made a record called Window, and 1:25:43.160 --> 1:25:47.320 I just you know, kept doing that. Every few years, 1:25:47.360 --> 1:25:49.800 I'd make another record. Somehow got money and found money 1:25:49.800 --> 1:25:54.240 and made a record, and as I said, you know, 1:25:55.640 --> 1:25:57.640 humility aside. I think the records have gotten better and 1:25:57.680 --> 1:26:00.400 better over the years, and I think this real good 1:26:00.439 --> 1:26:04.240 work there. But you know, most people come to my 1:26:04.280 --> 1:26:06.160 show's probably come for those five or six songs that 1:26:06.200 --> 1:26:09.639 they know, but there's always a few out there, they'll 1:26:09.720 --> 1:26:12.200 yell out some obscure in fact, really funny. There's a 1:26:12.200 --> 1:26:15.160 song on Doctor Fifn called Dreamers, which I think is 1:26:15.200 --> 1:26:19.160 a Robin I wrote. It's a good song, and I'll 1:26:19.160 --> 1:26:21.080 admit in the concerts I'm with them and secure when 1:26:21.080 --> 1:26:22.960 I play the deep cuts, because I've got my hits. 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:24.800 But when I'm playing the deep cuts, I realize a 1:26:24.800 --> 1:26:27.280 lot of people are waiting for Arthur or whatever. In fact, 1:26:27.560 --> 1:26:30.320 some night's second song right like they'll win. I'm like, hey, 1:26:30.479 --> 1:26:34.240 delay gratification, you know, hang on a second. But so 1:26:34.520 --> 1:26:37.280 one night recently at a show, some guy yells out 1:26:37.320 --> 1:26:40.000 something and I thought he said free bird, and so 1:26:40.080 --> 1:26:41.759 I said, hey, look scattered and I have an agreement. 1:26:41.760 --> 1:26:43.280 I don't play their songs that are playing my songs. 1:26:43.320 --> 1:26:45.639 But he actually said dreamers. He wrote it on social 1:26:45.640 --> 1:26:49.240 media and said no, I said dreamers. So I'm so 1:26:49.479 --> 1:26:52.400 kind of, you know, a shell shocked by that that 1:26:52.479 --> 1:26:55.360 I couldn't even imagine that someone would yell out an 1:26:55.360 --> 1:26:58.000 obscure deep track, but I did. I did a couple 1:26:58.000 --> 1:27:00.040 of shows in Austin some years ago called the No 1:27:00.160 --> 1:27:04.439 Hits Show. Tony Bucks, come hear me play unplugged but 1:27:04.560 --> 1:27:08.200 no hits, and now I got one hundred people, small club. 1:27:08.360 --> 1:27:13.680 It was great, just played inside tracks, you know, but 1:27:14.439 --> 1:27:19.640 all artists want that, you know, all artists want, you know, 1:27:20.040 --> 1:27:22.240 people to embrace their obscure material. 1:27:22.280 --> 1:27:25.200 You know, if I come to your show and I 1:27:25.360 --> 1:27:28.519 call out an obscure track, will you play. 1:27:28.320 --> 1:27:33.880 It if we can? Sometimes I'll start it and kind 1:27:33.880 --> 1:27:35.719 of play a little bit of it. But the guys 1:27:35.720 --> 1:27:39.800 are always in charts, so you know, they used to 1:27:39.800 --> 1:27:43.200 have that thing. I saw Bowie do it once where 1:27:43.200 --> 1:27:45.720 it was people called out songs and I realized later 1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:48.600 it was sort of staged. But I've wanted to have 1:27:48.640 --> 1:27:50.439 the balls to do that and just go anybody want 1:27:50.439 --> 1:27:52.439 to hear something, and I probably should do it, but 1:27:52.600 --> 1:27:54.679 having one hundred songs, it'd be a little tough even 1:27:54.720 --> 1:27:58.400 for me. I can't remember my own some of my 1:27:58.439 --> 1:28:02.800 own songs, I you know, so it would be an 1:28:02.800 --> 1:28:06.040 interesting experiment, you know. But people yell out things sometimes 1:28:06.080 --> 1:28:08.400 and I'll go, oh, thanks so much for that. You know, 1:28:08.439 --> 1:28:10.120 We're not playing that tonight, but thank you. And then 1:28:10.160 --> 1:28:11.880 sometimes people are going to say, hey, could you play 1:28:12.920 --> 1:28:14.880 this tune at the show in San Diego? They will 1:28:14.960 --> 1:28:15.840 learn it, you will play it. 1:28:22.360 --> 1:28:23.920 How did you end up getting married again? 1:28:25.520 --> 1:28:29.479 Well, I was looking at California and uh, I've been 1:28:29.840 --> 1:28:34.160 stinkled for twelve years or so, and you know, met 1:28:34.200 --> 1:28:39.240 somebody and I guess you know, people from a family, 1:28:39.320 --> 1:28:42.000 you know you somehow, especially live in somech Texas, you 1:28:42.000 --> 1:28:43.640 grow up with those kind of traditional values and you 1:28:43.680 --> 1:28:48.519 sort of want that duality. So in juxtaposition of my career, 1:28:48.560 --> 1:28:50.000 I thought, hey, I should have this too, you know, 1:28:50.000 --> 1:28:52.920 I should have like a regular life, you know. And 1:28:52.960 --> 1:28:55.120 like Michael McDonald, he and Aby have been married for 1:28:55.160 --> 1:28:57.559 thirty five years or whatever, and you know, our kids 1:28:57.600 --> 1:28:59.840 grow up together. So I had other role models that 1:28:59.840 --> 1:29:03.880 have successful marriag just so try again. So met Jane 1:29:03.920 --> 1:29:05.880 and we got married. We were married for eighteen years. 1:29:06.240 --> 1:29:12.240 So that was a good run. But you know, it 1:29:12.439 --> 1:29:15.200 just ran itself out, you know. And I don't know. 1:29:15.200 --> 1:29:17.000 Maybe it's my fault. Maybe I'm difficult to live with. 1:29:17.000 --> 1:29:19.599 I don't know, but I think one thing is when 1:29:19.600 --> 1:29:22.519 I got married the first time, I eloped, and when 1:29:22.520 --> 1:29:24.760 my father got I called my parents to tell him 1:29:24.760 --> 1:29:28.160 I was getting married. I never met her. My mother 1:29:28.200 --> 1:29:32.920 got on the phone and tried to be welcoming, but 1:29:33.040 --> 1:29:35.400 my father at one point he groffly grabbed the phone 1:29:35.400 --> 1:29:40.280 so let me talk to her, and he said, hey, listen, 1:29:40.560 --> 1:29:42.559 my dad was you know, he was a brilliant man, 1:29:42.600 --> 1:29:46.160 but alcoholic and you know, didn't have the best bedside matter. 1:29:46.240 --> 1:29:48.280 But he said, I want you to listen to me 1:29:48.680 --> 1:29:52.360 very closely. And you know my wife first wife said yeah. 1:29:52.640 --> 1:29:54.760 He said, you're marrying a musician. Do you know what 1:29:54.760 --> 1:29:58.479 that means? And she said, yeah, it's very exciting because no, 1:29:58.560 --> 1:30:00.800 I'm not talking about all that crack. You're marrying a 1:30:00.840 --> 1:30:04.519 musician and they are a different breed, so just be 1:30:04.560 --> 1:30:07.760 sure you know what you're getting into. And he gave 1:30:07.760 --> 1:30:09.720 a come back to my mom, and I thought that 1:30:09.760 --> 1:30:12.080 was one of the most insightful things I'd ever experienced 1:30:12.080 --> 1:30:15.519 when I thought about it later, because musicians are a 1:30:15.560 --> 1:30:19.400 different breed artist, and you're married to not just them, 1:30:19.439 --> 1:30:21.680 but you're married to their career and their work, and 1:30:21.720 --> 1:30:25.720 if you get jealous of it, it's over. And I 1:30:25.720 --> 1:30:28.720 don't care what the gender is. You know, you know, 1:30:29.880 --> 1:30:33.080 Larry Klein Graham Nast there with Joni Mitchell, so they 1:30:33.080 --> 1:30:34.519 did fine. But I'm just saying, you. 1:30:34.479 --> 1:30:38.040 Know, so, how do you end up going out with Ringo. 1:30:39.320 --> 1:30:39.880 Oh I didn't. 1:30:40.280 --> 1:30:42.600 I thought you did Ringo's All Star Band. 1:30:43.160 --> 1:30:45.599 No got from your mouth to God's Ear. No. I've 1:30:45.640 --> 1:30:48.639 tried and tried and tried, and of course Luke, Todd, 1:30:49.320 --> 1:30:52.920 Greg Listinette, they've all thrown my name in the fire, 1:30:52.960 --> 1:30:56.880 you know, to Ringo, and I've met Ringo. But I think, 1:30:57.479 --> 1:30:59.439 and I think personally i'd be perfect for it because 1:30:59.439 --> 1:31:01.280 they've got a couple of hits and I play and sing. 1:31:01.280 --> 1:31:04.639 But at the time they were really pitching me to Ringo. 1:31:04.760 --> 1:31:08.559 He was he'd had Colin hay and some different heat 1:31:08.600 --> 1:31:10.040 people play with him, and he said, look, I don't 1:31:10.040 --> 1:31:12.639 want to reinvent the Wheel. I just want to get people. 1:31:12.720 --> 1:31:15.559 And when Todd left, he got Colin Hay back. I 1:31:15.560 --> 1:31:17.000 think he said, I just want to get somebody I've 1:31:17.000 --> 1:31:19.360 already gott I've already used because I know what I'm doing. 1:31:19.400 --> 1:31:20.720 I'm not going to do this that much longer. So 1:31:20.760 --> 1:31:24.560 it never worked out, but everybody tried, and it was 1:31:24.600 --> 1:31:26.120 certainly a big dream of mine, but I never got 1:31:26.120 --> 1:31:27.559 to do it. I've done a lot of these Beatles 1:31:27.600 --> 1:31:30.000 shows with Todd run Gren where we go out and 1:31:30.000 --> 1:31:30.760 play and any like. 1:31:30.920 --> 1:31:32.400 So that was I was going to ask you about next. 1:31:32.439 --> 1:31:34.960 I don't know why I thought you did All Star band? 1:31:34.960 --> 1:31:35.479 How did you do that? 1:31:35.680 --> 1:31:38.599 Ringo calls? I've got to get off this call. Uh. Well, 1:31:38.840 --> 1:31:42.400 my manager, Toby Lidwig does a lot of concert promotion. 1:31:42.520 --> 1:31:44.200 He's got the Abba shows and all that stuff, and 1:31:44.240 --> 1:31:46.040 so he came up with this concept of doing Beetle 1:31:46.040 --> 1:31:48.479 tribute shows. We've done about seven of them, you know, 1:31:48.600 --> 1:31:52.960 themes Sergeant Pepper whatever it is. And the very first 1:31:52.960 --> 1:31:54.959 one he did I wasn't on. That was Alan Parsons 1:31:54.960 --> 1:31:58.800 and David Pack and Wilson John Outwhistle from Who. So 1:31:58.880 --> 1:32:01.519 then the next time Todd and I started doing them 1:32:01.520 --> 1:32:04.800 with Denny Lane, and we've done a whole bunch of them, 1:32:04.800 --> 1:32:08.599 and we just last time Todd picked Revolver in River Solim. 1:32:08.600 --> 1:32:11.559 We chose to songs from that. So put a band together. 1:32:11.640 --> 1:32:12.680 We just go out and do a few of our 1:32:12.760 --> 1:32:14.640 hits and do the deal things and they're very successful. 1:32:14.680 --> 1:32:17.040 People really love it and it's fun, you know, because 1:32:17.800 --> 1:32:22.599 the songs are timeless, and h Todd's really brilliant and 1:32:22.880 --> 1:32:23.519 fun to work with. 1:32:23.600 --> 1:32:25.439 So I do that. 1:32:25.560 --> 1:32:28.880 But it's Chris Todd Werker Bringo, but it's it's not 1:32:29.240 --> 1:32:30.360 like playing in the All Star band. 1:32:31.040 --> 1:32:34.120 And then what's it like working with Todd, who's a 1:32:34.200 --> 1:32:37.720 unique character, who's both a performer and a producer and 1:32:37.800 --> 1:32:39.080 an engineer to boot. 1:32:40.960 --> 1:32:44.040 Well, you know, I've always said genius is a term 1:32:44.080 --> 1:32:45.880 I don't like to throw him out. I think it's 1:32:45.880 --> 1:32:48.240 true of Brian Joni you know there their son, but 1:32:48.320 --> 1:32:55.360 I will Todd's brilliant for sure, really really a unique, 1:32:55.360 --> 1:33:02.080 interesting guy, really really brilliant. And so he's I love Todd. 1:33:02.120 --> 1:33:04.040 I think he's great. And I think the key with 1:33:04.160 --> 1:33:06.720 Todd is if you can play and sing and you've 1:33:06.720 --> 1:33:09.240 got command to your instrument, you're okay with him, you know, 1:33:09.960 --> 1:33:12.040 if you're faking it or whatever. He doesn't have much 1:33:12.080 --> 1:33:17.400 patience for that. But he's funny as hell and uh, 1:33:17.760 --> 1:33:21.080 you know, really well read and a very clever guy. 1:33:21.240 --> 1:33:23.760 And so I was a huge fan. I mean the 1:33:23.800 --> 1:33:25.959 ballad the second record that Todd made. 1:33:25.880 --> 1:33:26.840 Was that's the best line. 1:33:29.800 --> 1:33:33.479 Okay, Todd, listen to this, this is well less. That's 1:33:33.479 --> 1:33:36.640 saying that. Whenever I talked to him about I say, 1:33:36.680 --> 1:33:38.759 why don't you play more things? In Beninni and Jean 1:33:38.920 --> 1:33:40.840 Or whaling wall those things. He said, oh you like 1:33:40.920 --> 1:33:43.960 all that shit? And he said what song? Todd said, 1:33:44.600 --> 1:33:46.120 what do you want me to play off that? And 1:33:46.160 --> 1:33:47.840 I said, well, how about be nice to me? And 1:33:47.880 --> 1:33:50.120 he said, oh, it's so whiney, you know. And that's 1:33:50.160 --> 1:33:52.880 that's perfect of Todd. You know, he can also be 1:33:53.000 --> 1:33:55.800 very self deprecating. But I've I've considered it to be 1:33:55.920 --> 1:33:57.519 real honored to get to work with him because he's 1:33:57.520 --> 1:33:59.960 a big influence on me in terms of my I 1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:02.880 used to play those tunes and bars and Quarterly the 1:34:02.880 --> 1:34:06.080 structures and all that stuff. He's incredibly brilliant, So I 1:34:07.400 --> 1:34:09.960 love having the opportunity I can to work with him. 1:34:10.640 --> 1:34:13.200 Now, you had a bad experience with COVID. Tell us 1:34:13.200 --> 1:34:13.720 about that. 1:34:15.280 --> 1:34:18.080 Yeah. Todd sent me a birthday message when I turned 1:34:18.120 --> 1:34:20.439 seventy and said, get a vaccine and get the fuck 1:34:20.479 --> 1:34:27.040 out of Texas because he lives in Kawaii, you know. Yeah, 1:34:27.080 --> 1:34:30.760 So twenty twenty, I got COVID Alpha, which is the 1:34:30.800 --> 1:34:34.040 original strain. My girlfriend Joey and I got very sick. 1:34:34.320 --> 1:34:37.920 Do you have any idea how you got it? Well? 1:34:38.360 --> 1:34:40.720 I went down to Mexico with Pat Benatar to play 1:34:40.760 --> 1:34:44.439 a show and nothing, nothing at all to do with Mexico. 1:34:44.520 --> 1:34:46.639 But at the time, you know, we weren't warned about 1:34:46.680 --> 1:34:48.280 masks and all that stuff. So I went down to 1:34:48.320 --> 1:34:52.080 Mexico when I looked at fans and different things, and 1:34:52.080 --> 1:34:56.040 pat nobody was wearing masks, Neil Nanemore. So I'm pretty 1:34:56.080 --> 1:34:58.479 sure I got it there, maybe from a fan or whatever, 1:34:58.479 --> 1:35:00.240 but I'm not blaming anybody. But I came back and 1:35:00.280 --> 1:35:02.519 I think probably gave it a joy and I think 1:35:02.560 --> 1:35:04.240 I got it mixed goo. I don't know. But at again, 1:35:04.360 --> 1:35:07.200 there was no you know, the government wasn't telling us 1:35:07.200 --> 1:35:08.600 a lot. You know, there was not a lot of 1:35:09.200 --> 1:35:11.960 information about it. So I got very, very sick, and 1:35:12.000 --> 1:35:15.320 I started getting over. I started feeling better for a 1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:17.880 couple of days, and then I was sitting at my 1:35:17.960 --> 1:35:20.880 couch at home and I suddenly said to Joy, I 1:35:20.880 --> 1:35:25.240 can't I can't move my legs. I'm paralyzed. And we 1:35:25.320 --> 1:35:28.320 called the doctor and he said, you have gallambarre syndrome. 1:35:28.520 --> 1:35:30.080 Get to the get to the ear right away. So 1:35:30.080 --> 1:35:31.840 I went down there. By that time, my hands were 1:35:31.880 --> 1:35:36.479 also paralyzed. On my face kind of like I had. Ah. 1:35:38.120 --> 1:35:41.519 I mean, what's that disease? Uh? People get anyway. Uh, 1:35:41.720 --> 1:35:44.599 the bill's point to Bell's policy, it's kind of like that. 1:35:44.640 --> 1:35:47.439 But it was from my hands from paralyzed, couldn't walk, 1:35:48.320 --> 1:35:50.320 went to the hospital. I was in ar about a month, 1:35:51.240 --> 1:35:55.599 got treatment. Uh. It was tough because during COVID protocol, 1:35:55.600 --> 1:35:57.800 people couldn't visit me. I was alone in the in 1:35:57.880 --> 1:36:01.400 this room, alone day after day of pain because it's 1:36:01.400 --> 1:36:04.320 a spinal thing, and so it was very painful. But 1:36:04.360 --> 1:36:07.320 I finally got out of hospital. I got good treatment quickly, 1:36:07.360 --> 1:36:10.360 and most most of the symptoms abated over the next year. 1:36:11.320 --> 1:36:13.200 They say all the damage happens in the first two 1:36:13.200 --> 1:36:14.800 weeks and then all the healings in the next year. 1:36:14.840 --> 1:36:17.920 So over the next year, my legs through therapy physical therapy, 1:36:17.960 --> 1:36:19.960 I got used to my legs about eighty percent back, 1:36:20.120 --> 1:36:23.400 my hands, relaxed my face, and so I kind of 1:36:23.400 --> 1:36:25.800 came out of it. My legs are still compromised a bit. 1:36:25.920 --> 1:36:27.800 Stairs are hard to climb and that sort of thing, 1:36:28.000 --> 1:36:31.120 but I can get around. But that was tough. It 1:36:31.160 --> 1:36:32.840 was a very tough time for me in my life. 1:36:32.840 --> 1:36:37.080 It was very humbling and really gave me a window 1:36:37.120 --> 1:36:40.640 into people with disabilities that I've never had it's not 1:36:40.760 --> 1:36:43.040 a fair world to those people, I mean, trying to 1:36:43.040 --> 1:36:46.599 get around in a wheelchair. It's just we've done better, 1:36:46.640 --> 1:36:48.360 but we had a long way to go making the 1:36:48.400 --> 1:36:53.200 world accessible, you know. So that was a real, you know, 1:36:54.439 --> 1:36:56.880 taste of character. But I think I you know, my 1:36:56.880 --> 1:36:59.080 girlfriend was incredibly supportive, and friends who were in My 1:36:59.080 --> 1:37:01.640 friend jeff Foscuett, we haven't talked about yet, Jeffrey. He 1:37:01.680 --> 1:37:03.920 would stay on the phone with me at night, three 1:37:03.920 --> 1:37:06.120 in the morning, just talking me through just you know, 1:37:06.320 --> 1:37:09.840 my experience with this thing. It was just terrible. So 1:37:10.760 --> 1:37:13.280 I got through it and h thanks to the doctors 1:37:13.280 --> 1:37:17.640 and everything and nobody. Lot of people don't die from it. 1:37:17.680 --> 1:37:20.080 The guy Joseph Heller who wrote Catch twenty two, he 1:37:20.120 --> 1:37:22.000 got it. He was in a coma for two years 1:37:22.000 --> 1:37:24.800 on a ventilator. I fortunately was treated quick enough to 1:37:24.800 --> 1:37:27.639 where I never had pulmonary involvement. But MIMA is all scalable. 1:37:27.640 --> 1:37:32.120 But it was a real eye opening thing, Bob, for sure, 1:37:32.439 --> 1:37:34.519 I feel very blessed to have gotten through it, but 1:37:34.560 --> 1:37:36.720 also to have it happen when I was younger, I 1:37:36.760 --> 1:37:38.479 mean older, because if I'd been like twenty, I think 1:37:38.520 --> 1:37:41.920 it would have been rough. Now you know, I get 1:37:41.920 --> 1:37:44.439 a run fine, and I'm not trying to ski anymore anyway, 1:37:44.439 --> 1:37:45.000 So that's okay. 1:37:45.680 --> 1:37:48.760 Were you a skier before I was well? 1:37:48.800 --> 1:37:51.080 I never skied until I was thirty, when I got 1:37:51.080 --> 1:37:54.679 some of that money and I went out and learned 1:37:54.680 --> 1:37:56.320 how to skik because you know Army Bratt. We never 1:37:56.360 --> 1:38:00.400 went anywhere. Actually I remember I went skiing Don Henley 1:38:00.400 --> 1:38:01.960 and has a place in ask But I would skal 1:38:02.000 --> 1:38:05.280 with Henley in Eskmen. But so yeah, I skied, and 1:38:05.280 --> 1:38:07.519 I race cars and all that stuff. But none of 1:38:07.520 --> 1:38:10.080 that anymore, but it's appropriate. I'm too old anyway. 1:38:10.120 --> 1:38:13.760 So are you done recovering or will you regain any 1:38:13.840 --> 1:38:15.719 more use of your legs? 1:38:18.720 --> 1:38:21.519 No? No, All the recovering happens in the first year. 1:38:21.640 --> 1:38:23.479 So I've healed as much as I can. I have. 1:38:23.720 --> 1:38:26.160 They do these tests and so all the healing is done. 1:38:26.320 --> 1:38:30.040 I can walk fine. It's just that like when I'm 1:38:30.040 --> 1:38:32.599 in Manhattan, if I walk three or four blocks, it's 1:38:32.640 --> 1:38:34.320 like I walk kein blocks. You know, my legs are 1:38:34.400 --> 1:38:39.320 very inefficient and stairs are difficult. But I'm doing okay. 1:38:39.360 --> 1:38:42.240 I can I can get around and walking and stuff. 1:38:42.240 --> 1:38:45.479 It helps aerobically, but None of that's going to ever 1:38:45.760 --> 1:38:49.160 change my leg the way my legs are because it's 1:38:49.200 --> 1:38:51.759 spinal damage. It's not musk, it's not you know, muscular. 1:38:51.800 --> 1:38:54.679 But I'm doing fine. I can get around okay. I 1:38:54.680 --> 1:38:56.439 worked with a walker for a long time after the 1:38:56.520 --> 1:38:58.439 chair and that it came, but I can. I have 1:38:58.520 --> 1:39:00.439 to be super careful, like on stairs and stuff. But 1:39:00.520 --> 1:39:03.000 I'm I'm doing okay and I'm not playing. I rest 1:39:03.040 --> 1:39:04.519 a lot during the day on the bus so I 1:39:04.520 --> 1:39:08.320 can stand the ninety minutes. But yeah, I'm very lucky. 1:39:09.160 --> 1:39:14.080 So you mentioned Jeffrey Jeffrey Fasquett, guitarist, key member of 1:39:14.120 --> 1:39:17.400 the Latter Day Beach Boys and Brian Wilson tour. Tell 1:39:17.479 --> 1:39:20.559 us about how you met Jeffrey in your experience with him. 1:39:20.600 --> 1:39:21.759 He recently passed. 1:39:23.320 --> 1:39:25.240 Yeah. You know what's really funny, I was thinking about this. 1:39:26.200 --> 1:39:30.439 I always called Jeffrey Jeffrey Foscuett, and it's a British name, 1:39:31.000 --> 1:39:35.960 And one day Jerry Beckley from America called Foskett and 1:39:36.000 --> 1:39:39.240 I said, but Fuskett, that's how his name is really pronounced. 1:39:39.240 --> 1:39:42.040 And I asked jeff Jeffrey about he said, well, yes, 1:39:42.680 --> 1:39:44.760 it's pronounce Fuskett, and I said, I've been calling you 1:39:44.760 --> 1:39:46.840 Fosquette all this time, and he goes, it's okay, I 1:39:46.880 --> 1:39:50.240 don't care. And I said, well, how the hell did 1:39:50.240 --> 1:39:53.599 I get calling you Foskett anyway? And he goes, Carl, 1:39:54.120 --> 1:39:57.599 Carl called me Fosquett, and I said, oh, so all 1:39:57.640 --> 1:40:01.720 comes back to Carl. So in nineteen one, they when 1:40:01.720 --> 1:40:04.320 I was starting to another page the album with Laura 1:40:04.400 --> 1:40:07.760 on it, The World that Open was my oyster because 1:40:07.760 --> 1:40:10.479 I'd had this big record, so I could call anybody, 1:40:10.520 --> 1:40:12.840 you know. I called Art, Garfuncle, and I helled these people, 1:40:12.880 --> 1:40:14.839 and of course my dream was to have Carl Wilson 1:40:14.880 --> 1:40:17.960 sang on my record. So I called Carl as he 1:40:18.080 --> 1:40:20.080 was it said so gracious, and he came down and 1:40:20.880 --> 1:40:23.760 sang with me, and it was just, you know, unbelievable 1:40:23.800 --> 1:40:26.840 dream come true for me. But through that connection, Carl 1:40:26.880 --> 1:40:28.920 and it became fast friends, and I started getting involved 1:40:28.960 --> 1:40:30.680 with the Beach Boys, but I opened for them a lot. 1:40:30.720 --> 1:40:33.880 Sometimes I would sit in and sing tunes of Brian's 1:40:33.880 --> 1:40:35.960 and that sort of thing, And of course Jeffrey was 1:40:36.000 --> 1:40:38.519 in the band, and then he also later transitioned to 1:40:38.560 --> 1:40:42.800 being Brian's MD and so I got into that whole 1:40:42.840 --> 1:40:44.880 beach boy world and Jeffrey was in the middle of 1:40:44.920 --> 1:40:47.799 all that. So we just became again fast friends through Carl, 1:40:48.120 --> 1:40:51.720 and that friendship sustained till the day died. You know, 1:40:51.760 --> 1:40:55.560 and great amazing singer. He and I always joked that 1:40:55.640 --> 1:40:58.320 the two of us together made one Carl. You know 1:40:58.360 --> 1:41:05.120 what we sang, but you know, skilled harmonic musician, guitarist, producer, 1:41:05.880 --> 1:41:12.280 amazing singer and one of these guys networks. He knew everybody. 1:41:12.680 --> 1:41:16.040 He knows everybody you know he and but a lot 1:41:16.040 --> 1:41:18.639 of that was he would admit through Brian because because 1:41:18.680 --> 1:41:20.559 he had such access to Brian, and he was sort 1:41:20.560 --> 1:41:23.760 of Brian's guy. You know, he'd be hanging out with 1:41:23.800 --> 1:41:27.840 McCartney or hanging out with whoever because of Brian. But 1:41:27.960 --> 1:41:31.000 so you know, he always had he always knew everything 1:41:31.000 --> 1:41:33.000 before anybody else. Like if you try to scoop him 1:41:33.040 --> 1:41:34.600 by saying, hey I heard, he said, yeah, I know. 1:41:36.439 --> 1:41:40.360 He was that way. But he was an incredibly good 1:41:40.360 --> 1:41:42.439 friend and we had a lot of fun playing that 1:41:42.520 --> 1:41:46.320 music too. I went to London to Albert Hall and 1:41:46.360 --> 1:41:49.200 played with them and did some songs with the band. 1:41:50.000 --> 1:41:54.840 Brian wasn't there. But and through that all association, when 1:41:54.880 --> 1:41:58.400 Brian first started trying to come out, he did an 1:41:58.400 --> 1:42:01.920 album called Imagination that was sort of a constructed record 1:42:01.960 --> 1:42:05.360 by this guy, Joe Thomas. But they wanted a band, yeah, 1:42:06.040 --> 1:42:09.519 and they formed this band. It was Paul Schaeffer, myself, 1:42:09.600 --> 1:42:12.880 Timmy Schmidt, and a couple of national guys and we 1:42:12.880 --> 1:42:16.040 were Brian's band and we did Letterman and we did 1:42:16.040 --> 1:42:19.640 Farm Made Medity, things like that where we we you know. 1:42:19.920 --> 1:42:22.000 But it was and Brian was first coming back and 1:42:22.120 --> 1:42:25.760 it was tough because he was very uncomfortable. You know, 1:42:25.960 --> 1:42:28.719 he's gotten much much more comfortable, but at that point 1:42:28.720 --> 1:42:31.759 it was really terrifying for him to suddenly be thrust 1:42:31.760 --> 1:42:32.599 out on stage again. 1:42:35.040 --> 1:42:37.840 Well, I certainly know that album that really sounds like 1:42:37.880 --> 1:42:41.200 the Beach Boys. I saw that tour Lonely See You, 1:42:41.360 --> 1:42:45.680 phenomenal record. You're a big Beach Boys fan. What's your 1:42:45.720 --> 1:42:48.280 favorite Beach Boys album or a couple of songs? 1:42:50.120 --> 1:42:52.680 Well, pet sounds, I mean, you know, that's that's the 1:42:52.680 --> 1:42:59.080 one McCartney and Lennon that blew their mind. I think, 1:43:00.600 --> 1:43:02.840 I mean, God only knows. Paul says, the greatest song 1:43:02.880 --> 1:43:06.160 ever written and I would agree they had a poll 1:43:06.200 --> 1:43:09.680 at some point and the greatest song was Somewhere with 1:43:09.720 --> 1:43:12.960 the Rainbow, which I wouldn't argue either. But so God 1:43:13.000 --> 1:43:15.320 only knows because the way it's it's the songwritings he 1:43:15.360 --> 1:43:19.360 and Tony ash are amazing. But if Carl sang it, 1:43:19.960 --> 1:43:22.760 you know, and I have I have a handwritten lyric 1:43:22.800 --> 1:43:25.240 here in my house that Brian sent me. This handwritten 1:43:25.240 --> 1:43:27.519 God only knows, signed by Brian because he said, you 1:43:27.560 --> 1:43:29.400 know you love Carl, so I thought you'd like to 1:43:29.439 --> 1:43:32.920 have that. But so God only knows. But there's a 1:43:32.920 --> 1:43:35.320 tune that Mike and Al wrote called all This is That, 1:43:36.439 --> 1:43:39.040 which I love too. But then I just did a cover. 1:43:39.880 --> 1:43:43.040 Uh everybody says, watch you do a Carl cover record. 1:43:43.439 --> 1:43:45.080 I'm not, you know, I'm gonna touch that stuff, but 1:43:45.120 --> 1:43:48.400 I did. Recently I did a cover of this two 1:43:48.439 --> 1:43:52.400 Field Flows, which is on I think it's on Holland. 1:43:52.520 --> 1:43:55.679 But anyway, I did it completely different than Carl would 1:43:55.720 --> 1:43:58.320 do it. But so I'd say God only knows that certainly. 1:43:58.560 --> 1:44:00.360 And you know I wasn't made for these times. I mean, 1:44:00.840 --> 1:44:02.120 you know, the warmth of the sun. I mean, I 1:44:02.200 --> 1:44:04.000 just go on and on and on. I mean his 1:44:04.120 --> 1:44:07.120 catalog is crazy, but I do love that tune. All 1:44:07.200 --> 1:44:11.040 this is that but there and of course surfs up. 1:44:11.080 --> 1:44:12.639 You know pet sounds me. This serfs up a whole 1:44:12.680 --> 1:44:14.800 other level. It's kind of like Asia or something. It's 1:44:14.920 --> 1:44:19.240 just uh. I love the work as much as some 1:44:19.280 --> 1:44:21.760 people didn't like the collaboration with Van Dyke. I did. 1:44:22.240 --> 1:44:28.360 I love those obscure, heaty lyrics that Van Dyke used 1:44:28.800 --> 1:44:29.479 about music. 1:44:29.960 --> 1:44:32.120 Now, Carl had a great voice. I love what he 1:44:32.160 --> 1:44:34.600 did with I was made to love her. But my 1:44:34.720 --> 1:44:38.559 favorite Carl song his girl Don't Tell Me from Summer 1:44:38.640 --> 1:44:39.719 Days and Summer Nights. 1:44:41.520 --> 1:44:46.280 I met you last sun Kennos Day. Yeah, it's fantastic. 1:44:46.439 --> 1:44:48.759 I love that song and it's one of my faves. 1:44:49.800 --> 1:44:54.840 Carl his voice, Brian's Brian. But I really think Carl 1:44:54.920 --> 1:44:57.599 was the strongest of all those singers. I mean, oh Darl, 1:44:57.720 --> 1:45:01.200 I mean not Darling. With the song of the Beach 1:45:01.240 --> 1:45:03.760 boy was I've had to sing that on stage and 1:45:04.360 --> 1:45:07.160 forget about it. I mean it's so hard to sing, 1:45:07.280 --> 1:45:09.120 and I would watch him just belt it out. The 1:45:09.200 --> 1:45:12.840 guy had an incredible instrument, So yeah, lonely see I 1:45:12.880 --> 1:45:14.640 would sit around and just listen to the dark, to 1:45:14.720 --> 1:45:16.920 them and emulate them. And so Carl was definitely my 1:45:17.040 --> 1:45:20.240 vocal hero, and Brian's certainly a major writing hero. And 1:45:22.120 --> 1:45:24.519 it's funny. I went to dinner with Brian and Jeffrey 1:45:26.160 --> 1:45:27.880 and we went to McCormick miss or something, and so 1:45:28.120 --> 1:45:31.080 I picked up the check and Brian said, you buying 1:45:31.160 --> 1:45:34.160 my dinner? And I said yeah. He goes why and 1:45:34.280 --> 1:45:36.080 I said, well, I just want to somehow say thank 1:45:36.120 --> 1:45:39.400 you for all that you've done for me. Brian said, 1:45:39.439 --> 1:45:41.639 what did I do? I said, I don't know. It's 1:45:41.960 --> 1:45:45.560 taught me everything I know. But he's so humble, you know, 1:45:46.200 --> 1:45:50.200 he kind of just kind of shrugged. It was cute, 1:45:50.240 --> 1:45:55.040 but yeah, I learned a lot from those guys, all 1:45:55.080 --> 1:45:58.120 of them, you know, even Dennis. I mean that song 1:45:58.200 --> 1:46:03.320 Forever that didnist saying oh nomenal, yeah, unbelievable and Brian. 1:46:03.880 --> 1:46:05.920 Dennis brought Brian that and he had the song, but 1:46:06.000 --> 1:46:08.280 he needed a bridge. And the bridge song is so 1:46:08.479 --> 1:46:13.080 Brian because it's a you know, in my huhever and 1:46:13.200 --> 1:46:15.800 then it goes into this bridge that goes to a 1:46:15.880 --> 1:46:18.439 whole nother planet, and that's so Brian, and Brian sort 1:46:18.479 --> 1:46:22.800 of helped Dennis you know, write that, But I love 1:46:22.880 --> 1:46:24.920 that song, love it, you know, on. 1:46:24.960 --> 1:46:29.120 The same album It's about time. You know that song 1:46:29.280 --> 1:46:34.000 open Sunflower or second song. Okay, I used to blow 1:46:34.120 --> 1:46:38.360 my mind sky high looking for that. Okay, your songs 1:46:38.600 --> 1:46:40.800 in your royalty stream, do you still own those? 1:46:41.640 --> 1:46:46.320 Yeah? You know. Actually your assistant Margaret was telling me 1:46:46.400 --> 1:46:47.880 she works for BMG for a while, and I did 1:46:47.960 --> 1:46:52.040 sell my catalog early on the first four records to BMCH. 1:46:52.320 --> 1:46:54.880 But there's a reversion thing that you can file these 1:46:54.920 --> 1:46:57.680 reversions after thirty five years, there's a law that all 1:46:57.760 --> 1:46:59.280 that reverts back to you. And so I was very 1:46:59.320 --> 1:47:02.240 cautious and out all that because I quickly learned that 1:47:02.360 --> 1:47:06.799 was a mistake and nothing against BMG. But my advice 1:47:06.880 --> 1:47:09.840 to wrong writers is usually don't sell your cattle. Don't 1:47:09.840 --> 1:47:13.240 say you're publishing. But so I was able to get 1:47:13.240 --> 1:47:15.479 it back because after thirty five years you can do that. 1:47:15.600 --> 1:47:17.320 You got to be do it right, figure out how 1:47:17.320 --> 1:47:18.640 to do it, but you can do it. And the 1:47:18.680 --> 1:47:19.519 same with the masters. 1:47:20.640 --> 1:47:24.439 Okay, just because you regret it, why did you regret 1:47:24.520 --> 1:47:25.840 it and would you sell it again? 1:47:27.760 --> 1:47:30.160 Well, the reason at the time was, you know, I 1:47:30.240 --> 1:47:32.320 got some money, but nothing like the dollars we're seeing 1:47:32.360 --> 1:47:37.800 float around now. These multiples are crazy. But the real 1:47:37.880 --> 1:47:41.519 reason was I signed and I got this money, which 1:47:41.600 --> 1:47:44.360 was some money. But right after I signed with BMG, 1:47:44.640 --> 1:47:48.000 in Sync recorded Sailing on their first record, but nothing 1:47:48.040 --> 1:47:50.000 to do with was BMG said we're gonna get you 1:47:50.040 --> 1:47:52.880 all these commercials and all this great stuff. BMG had nothing. 1:47:52.960 --> 1:47:55.600 Johnny Wright, who produced and managed in Sink, got the 1:47:55.720 --> 1:47:58.920 idea and used his Florida people to construct this R 1:47:58.920 --> 1:48:00.599 and B pop version of sal It was on their 1:48:00.640 --> 1:48:03.280 first record. The record was massive. BMG made all their 1:48:03.280 --> 1:48:06.880 money back in one feel smooth. So had I just 1:48:07.200 --> 1:48:08.800 not done it, I couldn't. I would all lend it 1:48:08.800 --> 1:48:14.519 come myself. I mean, you know, McCartney's a big collector 1:48:14.560 --> 1:48:16.320 of catalogs and it's a smart thing to do from 1:48:16.360 --> 1:48:20.679 a business decision. But uh, and on these these these 1:48:20.720 --> 1:48:23.400 three sixty five deals and stuff, I'm a big fan 1:48:23.439 --> 1:48:25.519 of all that. You know, royalties have always been too low. 1:48:25.600 --> 1:48:29.600 I mean my first royalty rate was twelve percent, you know, 1:48:30.280 --> 1:48:33.240 So yeah, I uh, I've been around long enough. I 1:48:33.280 --> 1:48:35.439 could get it back, but you got to you got 1:48:35.520 --> 1:48:37.240 to make a concerted effort to hire a good lawyer 1:48:37.360 --> 1:48:39.080 to do that. But there's a law now that it 1:48:39.160 --> 1:48:41.840 reverts back, just like there was a law seven years 1:48:41.920 --> 1:48:44.800 after the seven years after you record your record, you 1:48:44.840 --> 1:48:46.920 can re record it. That used to be a lot 1:48:47.000 --> 1:48:49.280 that the labels are changing that you know they're going 1:48:49.360 --> 1:48:51.720 to say now you can't do that anymore, because you know, 1:48:51.760 --> 1:48:54.320 Taylor Swift just did that. She recorded all her stuff again. 1:48:54.400 --> 1:48:59.240 But you know these are all just turns of the road, 1:48:59.320 --> 1:49:01.960 you know, bread less traveled or whatever. I mean, it's 1:49:02.000 --> 1:49:06.400 all good. I mean, you live and learn. And again 1:49:06.560 --> 1:49:08.840 I'm sitting here talking to you getting ready. I just 1:49:08.880 --> 1:49:10.800 got tough with the seven week term. I just got 1:49:10.840 --> 1:49:12.040 the pope. I'm going to be going out in the 1:49:12.040 --> 1:49:14.519 summer again. I get ready to go to Lincoln Center 1:49:15.360 --> 1:49:17.400 and do a benefit for Michael Brecker, the great Jess 1:49:17.439 --> 1:49:20.880 sax player. So you know, I'm I'm doing lots of 1:49:20.920 --> 1:49:23.000 fun stuff and life is good. 1:49:24.000 --> 1:49:25.880 So how much do you work and how much do 1:49:25.920 --> 1:49:26.639 you want to work? 1:49:29.000 --> 1:49:31.639 Well, I want to work all the time. I mean, 1:49:32.200 --> 1:49:35.000 seventy two after what I went through, I want to 1:49:35.040 --> 1:49:36.840 make able of sunshine. So I'd like to work as 1:49:36.920 --> 1:49:38.479 much as I can these like four or five years. 1:49:38.520 --> 1:49:40.360 So I want to be out there doing Beetle shows 1:49:40.400 --> 1:49:42.400 with Todd or doing my own thing or whatever I 1:49:42.439 --> 1:49:46.400 can do, so playing Ringers All Star band, whatever it is. 1:49:47.439 --> 1:49:49.200 I love being on the road. I love being on 1:49:49.240 --> 1:49:52.280 the bus. I live on the bus and so I 1:49:53.320 --> 1:49:55.240 I love that. And that's where this thing gets. Like 1:49:55.360 --> 1:49:57.320 my girlfriend Joy is so fantastic because she gets it. 1:49:57.439 --> 1:50:00.360 She gets me, She gets all that and she that 1:50:00.560 --> 1:50:02.479 that's where I want to be. But she doesn't take 1:50:02.520 --> 1:50:04.560 it personally and she gets that that's part of the 1:50:04.640 --> 1:50:07.799 animal I am. But yeah, you can ask my manager. 1:50:07.840 --> 1:50:10.040 I'm like, when are we going back out? But i mean, 1:50:10.320 --> 1:50:12.200 after seven weeks, I'm fatigued a little bit and a 1:50:12.320 --> 1:50:14.720 little break, but I'm I'm definitely ready to go out again. 1:50:15.320 --> 1:50:17.959 So where did you meet this woman who can understand 1:50:18.040 --> 1:50:18.679 your lifestyle? 1:50:20.960 --> 1:50:23.000 I met her here in Austin at a dinner party. 1:50:23.920 --> 1:50:26.360 I went actually with Eric Johnson and she was there 1:50:27.400 --> 1:50:31.800 and we were introduced. And I was by myself at 1:50:31.840 --> 1:50:35.240 the time and she was as well, and we were introduced, 1:50:35.240 --> 1:50:36.720 and so I just kind of reached out to her 1:50:36.800 --> 1:50:42.920 and we you know, connected, and so you know how 1:50:43.040 --> 1:50:47.000 things work out. But she's wonderful. Him's joy and she 1:50:48.240 --> 1:50:50.760 works in nonprofit healthcare, which is a very rewarding and 1:50:51.080 --> 1:50:53.000 a career that I really have so much respect for 1:50:53.280 --> 1:50:56.880 helping people with health care needs. But she's you know, 1:50:57.360 --> 1:50:59.840 we got together. We've been together around ten years or so, 1:51:00.080 --> 1:51:03.280 so it's later in life. So she's just and not 1:51:03.439 --> 1:51:06.560 that you know, this thing with not understanding artist is 1:51:06.880 --> 1:51:08.719 that pervasive. It's just that it can be a problem 1:51:08.800 --> 1:51:11.400 you've got to understand. And Joe laughs about it. She 1:51:11.479 --> 1:51:14.000 thinks it's funny that you know. But maybe she loves 1:51:14.080 --> 1:51:15.720 the break too. Maybe she can't wait for me to leave. 1:51:15.720 --> 1:51:20.439 I don't know. But I'm really enjoying what I'm doing 1:51:20.520 --> 1:51:22.600 more than ever, and partly above because that all that 1:51:22.760 --> 1:51:25.559 early in security. You know, I've lost a lot of weight. 1:51:25.600 --> 1:51:28.000 I lost fifty pounds. I used to weigh too eighty 1:51:28.040 --> 1:51:30.320 five and now I weighed to twenty. I lost fifty 1:51:30.360 --> 1:51:36.200 pounds because of gambret and I've Type two diabetes. So 1:51:36.320 --> 1:51:38.559 I'm really conscious about my eating of it so now, 1:51:38.960 --> 1:51:40.439 and I want to lose a little bit more about 1:51:40.520 --> 1:51:43.000 lost love with So I'm feeling more confident physically but 1:51:43.160 --> 1:51:46.439 also musically. I feel much much more confident in my 1:51:46.560 --> 1:51:49.240 skills and what I'm able to do. And now I'm 1:51:49.280 --> 1:51:52.240 surrounded by these amazing musicians on stage that are just 1:51:52.960 --> 1:51:56.280 world class, and so every night they bring stuff to 1:51:56.320 --> 1:52:01.720 the stage that's just inspiring. So it's really fun for 1:52:01.800 --> 1:52:03.240 me to step out there and you know, see what's 1:52:03.240 --> 1:52:04.040 going to happen each night. 1:52:04.080 --> 1:52:09.720 You know, you've been fantastic, very forthcoming. I really have 1:52:09.920 --> 1:52:11.760 to thank you. I could talk to you all day. 1:52:11.800 --> 1:52:14.280 It's we're from the same areas, so many similarities. You 1:52:14.360 --> 1:52:16.559 have the success, but you tell such a great story. 1:52:17.160 --> 1:52:19.160 I want to thank you for taking this time to 1:52:19.200 --> 1:52:20.280 speak to my audience. 1:52:21.040 --> 1:52:23.800 Well, I'm a huge fan. I told you that in 1:52:23.880 --> 1:52:25.519 the email, but I'm a huge fan. I have so 1:52:25.640 --> 1:52:28.479 much respect for what you do and say. I think 1:52:28.520 --> 1:52:30.840 you're incredibly honest and you say a lot of things 1:52:30.880 --> 1:52:34.760 that need to be said. I think to the world 1:52:34.800 --> 1:52:38.920 about music and you know, and you tell it like 1:52:39.000 --> 1:52:40.479 it is, and I think we need that right now. 1:52:40.600 --> 1:52:43.040 So and I was saying, you know, I don't know 1:52:43.120 --> 1:52:44.840 a lot inviies anywhere, but I gotta say it's been 1:52:44.880 --> 1:52:47.519 a lot of fun. I was nervous, you know, uh, 1:52:48.280 --> 1:52:50.439 talking to you today. But you know you did tell me, 1:52:51.320 --> 1:52:53.519 you said it's not a gotcha, you know, and you're 1:52:53.600 --> 1:52:55.560 you're you're true to your word. You know. 1:52:55.960 --> 1:52:58.960 Well, as I say, you know, you were somewhat reluctant 1:52:59.400 --> 1:53:01.559 and then you were so great. I mean, you never 1:53:01.680 --> 1:53:04.360 know what to expect. I'm not blowing smoke. Well, you 1:53:04.439 --> 1:53:08.400 were really great, very forthcoming. The story issues. I say, 1:53:08.479 --> 1:53:11.040 I could have gone down a million more avenues, So 1:53:11.360 --> 1:53:11.920 thanks again. 1:53:12.160 --> 1:53:14.439 Well yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thank you, Bob. 1:53:15.120 --> 1:53:18.840 Listen till next time. This is Bob left Sex