Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Emily Chang and this is Bloomberg Studio,
Speaker 1: one point out. In her early twenties, Whitney wolf Heard
Speaker 1: became tech famous as a co founder of Tinder, where
Speaker 1: users wipe right if they like what they see and
Speaker 1: left if they don't. But she left it a controversy,
Speaker 1: suing her Tinder colleagues for sexual harassment and discrimination. That
Speaker 1: case settled out of the public eye, but herds mission
Speaker 1: to upend dating norms through technology was just getting started.
Speaker 1: She threw her efforts into Bumble, a dating app where
Speaker 1: women make the first move. Bumble now has a hundred
Speaker 1: million users in a hundred fifty countries, and Wall Street
Speaker 1: is a buzz with chatter about Bumble's road to I
Speaker 1: p O joining me now on Bloomberg Studio. At one point,
Speaker 1: Oh Bumble CEO and co founder Whitney wolf Heard whinny,
Speaker 1: the pandemic has upended everything about normal life, and one
Speaker 1: might assume that the dating world came to a stands
Speaker 1: still at the start of this. What happened if you
Speaker 1: were single and looking for love in the time of
Speaker 1: coronavirus or maybe just some fun. So this pandemic has
Speaker 1: completely changed everything about our lives. But what has been
Speaker 1: reinforced is the importance of relationships and the importance of
Speaker 1: human connection. Uh Loneliness has also been at an all
Speaker 1: time high given the way our lives have been completely
Speaker 1: UH change, and the importance of having relationships and finding
Speaker 1: companionship and even finding love has only become more and
Speaker 1: more critical in this time. And so, you know, like
Speaker 1: any business owner in any business UM team across the world,
Speaker 1: the first few weeks for very Um Touch and Go,
Speaker 1: we didn't know what was going to happen because of
Speaker 1: this pandemic. We didn't know if this was going to
Speaker 1: be catastrophic for business or if there could be some
Speaker 1: silver lining, and we're very, very fortunate that it's the latter.
Speaker 1: So what we've seen is the durability of the need
Speaker 1: to date and the durability of digital dating. What it
Speaker 1: activity did you see on the platform given that people
Speaker 1: couldn't see each other in person? Did it just stop
Speaker 1: or did it spike? It spiked The activity on our product,
Speaker 1: starting at the lockdowns, really started to go up. And
Speaker 1: what was fascinating was more than activity rising, was the
Speaker 1: use of our video dating. And so it's important to
Speaker 1: note that we introduced video chats and video messaging and
Speaker 1: video dating well before this pandemic really started. We introduced
Speaker 1: this in and the usage of it was not very vast,
Speaker 1: it was actually quite measured, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: with this pandemic hitting, the video chats went through the roof.
Speaker 1: And not only did they go through the roof from
Speaker 1: a from a use case standpoint, but from a time
Speaker 1: spent video chatting, and something really amazing happened out of this.
Speaker 1: We really started to realize that people are getting to
Speaker 1: know each other on a deeper level. They're getting to
Speaker 1: know each other more authentically, more thoroughly, and then they're
Speaker 1: able to evaluate coming off of these video chats if
Speaker 1: the person on the other end is in fact someone
Speaker 1: they want to meet, and so categorically this has changed
Speaker 1: how digital dating works for the long run. What makes
Speaker 1: Bumble unique is that you let women make the first
Speaker 1: move only with men that they are matched with, or
Speaker 1: if we're talking about same sex folks, either person can
Speaker 1: make the first move. For so long, dating has always
Speaker 1: told men to go first, has always told women to wait,
Speaker 1: and by doing this we've completely created an imbalance in
Speaker 1: gender or equity when it comes to relationships. And so
Speaker 1: if we're talking about a heterosexual relationship and you're telling
Speaker 1: women never to make the first move and to sit
Speaker 1: and to wait, and you're asking men to always go first,
Speaker 1: you're creating this situation where men are led to be rejected.
Speaker 1: When they're rejected and hide behind a profile screen, a
Speaker 1: lot of bad things can happen, like aggression, harassment, abuse,
Speaker 1: and other forms of toxic behavior, and so it really
Speaker 1: creates this imbalance. But what Bumble has done is entirely
Speaker 1: flipped the switch. So on Bumble, every time a woman
Speaker 1: connects with a man, if she's looking for a man
Speaker 1: on the product or a mail on the product, she
Speaker 1: always has to start the conversation. She always must start,
Speaker 1: and it must always say hello first. And this has
Speaker 1: completely turned it on its head in the sense that
Speaker 1: rejection is eliminated, pressure has been taken away, empowerment has
Speaker 1: been infused, and control has been given to the woman.
Speaker 1: And so this really does change the entire dynamics start
Speaker 1: to end. You also do a ton of user research.
Speaker 1: What are you hearing from users about what they want
Speaker 1: more of, what they want less of, and how do
Speaker 1: you meet those demands Customers Over the years have shown
Speaker 1: us that they want more than love, they want more
Speaker 1: than romance. They actually started hacking our product to find friends,
Speaker 1: to find business connections, to find platonic connection, and so
Speaker 1: then we built these modes for them. And so now
Speaker 1: Bumble is a full fledged social connection platform for people
Speaker 1: you don't know yet, ranging well beyond love. It's you know,
Speaker 1: extends into platonic friendships, business relationships, and and so much more.
Speaker 1: You now have more than a hundred million users in
Speaker 1: a hundred fifty different countries around the world. Talk to
Speaker 1: us about the growth you're seeing in places like India
Speaker 1: and Germany and Mexico. Well, I think what growth around
Speaker 1: the world tells us is that we're all not so
Speaker 1: different after all. Right, Um, yes, we have different cultures,
Speaker 1: we have different preferences, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: we are all humans and we all need to connect.
Speaker 1: We all need to find love, we need to find friendship,
Speaker 1: we need to find business opportunities. So we're seeing huge
Speaker 1: growth in places like Mexico, Germany, even in Israel, we're
Speaker 1: seeing early high growth. And so when we plant our
Speaker 1: seeds places, due to the nature of our product, which
Speaker 1: is infused with empowerment and giving control to women and
Speaker 1: really the wider use case of just you know, finding connection.
Speaker 1: This works around the world. So how does women making
Speaker 1: the first move play out in a place like India where,
Speaker 1: you know, even more so than in the United States,
Speaker 1: women are not empowered to break down cultural barriers like that.
Speaker 1: It's really truly been one of the greatest joys of
Speaker 1: my career to go into places that are historically not
Speaker 1: engineered to grant women power or to um give them,
Speaker 1: you know, um any encouragement to go after what they
Speaker 1: want their relationships and to go in with with the
Speaker 1: product which is ours bumble, and to actually give them
Speaker 1: a different way. So it's not that women around the
Speaker 1: world don't want to make the first move. It's not
Speaker 1: that women in India don't want to be treated as
Speaker 1: equals or given control over the relationships. So that the
Speaker 1: society in the system hasn't hasn't um you know, granted
Speaker 1: that opportunity, and so when you introduce another way women
Speaker 1: and will thrive. Now in terms of the product, I know,
Speaker 1: there have been some new features like letting women send
Speaker 1: an introductory emojis so you can sort of put feelers
Speaker 1: out there, um because you can't meet someone in person.
Speaker 1: You can't, you know, monitor things like body language and
Speaker 1: get signals from that. You know, talk to us about
Speaker 1: some of the new features that you've implemented at this
Speaker 1: unprecedented time. We've done quite a few things. We have
Speaker 1: given data as the opportunity to put badges on their profile,
Speaker 1: which indicates what they're willing to do during this time,
Speaker 1: if they want a socially distance date, or if they
Speaker 1: are COVID free and are willing to go on an
Speaker 1: actual date, or if they are just interested in virtual dating.
Speaker 1: At this time, there's so much talk about what new
Speaker 1: normal will look like when we come out of this,
Speaker 1: if we come out of this. As we come out
Speaker 1: of this, you know, some of us may never go
Speaker 1: back to the office. For example. Do you think things
Speaker 1: about dating will also be permanently changed. I do. I
Speaker 1: believe that there are a couple of things that will
Speaker 1: change for the better with dating. One, I believe that
Speaker 1: we will stop taking relationships for granted. I really do
Speaker 1: believe that we as people recognize, maybe long overdue, but
Speaker 1: we fully recognize the importance of companionship and healthy, equitable relationships. Secondarily,
Speaker 1: I think that on bumble we are going to see
Speaker 1: the lasting impacts in a long term. UM kind of
Speaker 1: feature to stay will be video dating. I really do believe,
Speaker 1: coming off the data we've seen and that the anecdotal
Speaker 1: feedback we've heard, that women truly feel safer and more
Speaker 1: encouraged and more willing to meet someone in real life
Speaker 1: if they've gotten to know them virtually, so instead of
Speaker 1: just matching with someone, connecting with them, chatting with them,
Speaker 1: and then going to the coffee shop, which is what
Speaker 1: was taking place pre covid, I do believe there's going
Speaker 1: to be added layers of friction before where you meet
Speaker 1: in real life, which candidly is exceptional for the sake
Speaker 1: of safety and making sure that connections are valid and
Speaker 1: and you know, really authentic and true. This is my
Speaker 1: conversation with Whitney Wolf heard Bumble CEO and co founder
Speaker 1: up next, how the sexual harassment and discrimination lawsuit against
Speaker 1: her former colleagues at Tinder has shaped her leadership at
Speaker 1: Bumble and progress on her contributions to a Texas law
Speaker 1: cracking down on online harassment. I'm Emily Chang, this is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Studio. At one point, oh, I want to learn
Speaker 1: a little bit more about young Whitney, because there are
Speaker 1: so many little girls out there who need to be
Speaker 1: inspired by stories like yours. When you were a kid,
Speaker 1: did you think you could be an entrepreneur or a
Speaker 1: founder or a CEO? What kind kid for you? When
Speaker 1: I was young, you know, I didn't have a lot
Speaker 1: of women's CEOs or woman founder examples to look to.
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of us experience that
Speaker 1: growing up, and and so it was never something in
Speaker 1: my mind. So I never thought that I would be
Speaker 1: a businesswoman per se. But I always had a creative
Speaker 1: streak in me, and I always had an entrepreneurial streak
Speaker 1: in me. But you know, I don't think we knew
Speaker 1: that we had permission to go there so far to
Speaker 1: the point where it was almost mocked to some degree,
Speaker 1: and so um. You know, I think the beauty of
Speaker 1: where we are today is that's changing. You know, women
Speaker 1: that are starting their careers and starting businesses are are
Speaker 1: are our sources of inspiration to young girls. You went
Speaker 1: to Southern Methodist University, as I understand it, you started
Speaker 1: your first business in college, actually selling tope bags, with
Speaker 1: the proceeds going to the area's hardest hit by the
Speaker 1: deep water Horizon oil spill, and when you graduated, you
Speaker 1: worked in orphanages across Asia. Your resume reads more like
Speaker 1: a resume for a saint than a CEO. Well, certainly
Speaker 1: not a saint, I can tell you that much. But
Speaker 1: you know what is interesting about that is, had I
Speaker 1: not had those experiences, Bumble would not be what Bumble
Speaker 1: is today. And I think what what we're trying to
Speaker 1: accomplish a Bumble is that you can drive profit and
Speaker 1: purpose and they can coincide, they can coexist, and in fact,
Speaker 1: they fuel one another. And I think what's really interesting
Speaker 1: is if you look at every major social media platform
Speaker 1: prior to Bumble, not one of them had been engineered
Speaker 1: truly with women in mind, whether that was being able
Speaker 1: to send a photo that might disappear, or being able to,
Speaker 1: you know, decide who was attractive on campus or not.
Speaker 1: I don't want to name names, but I think you
Speaker 1: can understand where I'm going with this in the sense
Speaker 1: that there had really never been a major social media
Speaker 1: platform or connection platform the design for a woman's experience.
Speaker 1: And so when I was starting Bumble, it was so
Speaker 1: important to me to really rewrite the code for the
Speaker 1: woman experience, start to end, How do we protect her,
Speaker 1: how do we keep her safe? How do we empower her?
Speaker 1: How do we inspire her? How do we give her
Speaker 1: what she wants and needs? So before Bumble was Tinder,
Speaker 1: where you were a co founder and they were trying
Speaker 1: to rewrite the code but in a different direction, and
Speaker 1: swiping left and right is still a completely different approach.
Speaker 1: What did you learn there and from that experience? So
Speaker 1: my time of being a co founder at Tinder was
Speaker 1: incredibly informative, and I'm forever grateful for the experience and
Speaker 1: exposure I had to high growth tech business early on
Speaker 1: UM and from my time there, I really identified white space.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't tell you how hard the first
Speaker 1: few years of Bumble were. I mean, UM, I was
Speaker 1: mocked and laughed at and told I was crazy and
Speaker 1: that it would never work. And we were told that,
Speaker 1: you know, women won't make the for us move, They
Speaker 1: shouldn't make the first move, they don't make the first move.
Speaker 1: And here we are, UM one point five billion first
Speaker 1: moves and counting five and a half six years later,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really um. It's a testament to all
Speaker 1: women out there. If you, if you identify an issue
Speaker 1: that women experience, and you set out to solve that
Speaker 1: for women, Um, they will come and they will follow
Speaker 1: because we need the solutions and and it's a huge
Speaker 1: opportunity for all women building businesses. You've been quite candid
Speaker 1: about your own experience being being bullied. You also, in
Speaker 1: a big first move, sued your former team at Tinder
Speaker 1: for discrimination and sexual harassment. How did that inform how
Speaker 1: you want to lead and how you want to do
Speaker 1: things differently at Bumble After my departure from Tinder, Uh,
Speaker 1: that became very public my departure, in the details of
Speaker 1: my departure were displayed all over the Internet, and with
Speaker 1: that came flew of online abuse and harassment from complete strangers.
Speaker 1: But it never ended. It would go in the night
Speaker 1: and the daytime, and my social media accounts were flooded
Speaker 1: with really toxic, toxic and mean words and you know,
Speaker 1: words count, and it hurt me. It devastated me, and
Speaker 1: it sent me into a really dark place. And and
Speaker 1: from that I had an opportunity to say, Okay, this
Speaker 1: can either destroy me and this is the end of
Speaker 1: my career, or I can really put a pin in
Speaker 1: what's wrong here and try to build a solution. And
Speaker 1: so that was really the beginning of my journey onward
Speaker 1: into my next chapter, which has become Bumble, which was
Speaker 1: why is social media so unaccountable? Why is social media
Speaker 1: so cruel? Why are we allowed to treat each other
Speaker 1: this way online when frankly, those same people sending those
Speaker 1: messages if they saw me in a grocer, you store
Speaker 1: or on the street, I can guess that they wouldn't
Speaker 1: say those things to me because there would be some
Speaker 1: level of accountability. And so that was really the beginning
Speaker 1: of of of flipping the switch, and my my lesson
Speaker 1: through that has been too really make that our north star.
Speaker 1: How do we engineer healthy and equitable relationships for everyone?
Speaker 1: And that starts with also how we treat each other
Speaker 1: internally as a team. And so it's just been very
Speaker 1: foundational and something we've stayed very very loyal to. Someone
Speaker 1: says something about you online or comments on the way
Speaker 1: you look that can have a big impact on someone. Um,
Speaker 1: you know what about the role of online dating in that,
Speaker 1: because that can also play a pretty powerful role. What
Speaker 1: are you doing to address the negative or potential negative
Speaker 1: mental and emotional impacts of that. You're absolutely right, first
Speaker 1: and foremost we've really laid down the law internally and
Speaker 1: from a product standpoint on what we will tolerate and
Speaker 1: what we will not. We have a zero tolerance policy
Speaker 1: for hate, for bad behavior, for toxicity, for any discrimination
Speaker 1: of any kind. We will block you, we will report you,
Speaker 1: and we will involve the police if if it is consequential,
Speaker 1: if if you do something that is dangerous. Um. Not
Speaker 1: only that, but we've really built product features to support this.
Speaker 1: So we were the first group to roll out photo verification.
Speaker 1: Photo verification is an opportunity to validate and verify who
Speaker 1: you are in under one minute. Um. The fact that
Speaker 1: online dating is a place where you can be anonymous
Speaker 1: or you can pretend to be someone else is very scary,
Speaker 1: and so we really take this very seriously and we
Speaker 1: make sure that that's not happening and that we're doing
Speaker 1: all we can to prevent it. You've contributed to a
Speaker 1: Texas law actually cracking down on digital sexual harassment. Tell
Speaker 1: me how much progress you've made there. We introduced a
Speaker 1: bill to solve for the issue of no online accountability
Speaker 1: and no regulation on really toxic, scary digital behavior. So
Speaker 1: in the real world, you have indecent exposure. This is
Speaker 1: a law. There are consequences if you expose yourself in
Speaker 1: public in front of others in any unsolicited format. It's
Speaker 1: a very serious law, and there are very serious consequences.
Speaker 1: Yet you could stand on the same block in front
Speaker 1: of the same strangers and you could air drop a
Speaker 1: photo of yourself and there are no consequences, not until
Speaker 1: the law that we had passed, and we introduced this
Speaker 1: bill to ban or to make illegal, the sending of
Speaker 1: unsolicited lewed photos. This bill was introduced as a law,
Speaker 1: the law passed unanimously in the Texas State Senate, which
Speaker 1: we all know in such a polarizing political climate it's
Speaker 1: very hard to do. So that's just to suggest the
Speaker 1: serious nature of this. This is a human issue, This
Speaker 1: is not a political issue. And we were able to
Speaker 1: get that law actually signed into effect, and so now
Speaker 1: in the state of Texas, it is illegal to send
Speaker 1: unsolicited lewd photos. And that is just the first of
Speaker 1: many laws and bills that we hope to advocate for
Speaker 1: in the coming years. So, speaking of politics, we've been
Speaker 1: through an incredibly volatile political time. How are you addressing
Speaker 1: politics and dating? We stay really loyal to our mission,
Speaker 1: and if our mission is to engineer a world, or
Speaker 1: to create a world where all relationships are healthy and equitable. Well,
Speaker 1: then there are certain things we cannot tolerate. There are
Speaker 1: certain things we have to stand up for. We must
Speaker 1: protect a woman's right to choose. We must protect a
Speaker 1: woman's right to her own body and her choices, and
Speaker 1: we must protect the right to love whoever you want
Speaker 1: to love, no matter what. And we must really take
Speaker 1: a hard stance against any form of discrimination. And so
Speaker 1: that is the firm line we draw on the sand.
Speaker 1: We do not tell you who you can and cannot
Speaker 1: vote for, but we do tell you what we will
Speaker 1: and will not tolerate as a business. And so that's
Speaker 1: really been our northern star. You're listening to my conversation
Speaker 1: with Bumble CEO and co founder Whitney wolf Hurt. Coming
Speaker 1: up with a swarm of dating apps and social media
Speaker 1: platforms out there, how does Bumble compete? And in a
Speaker 1: year of big tchech I p O, when will the
Speaker 1: company go public? I'm Emily Chang. This is Bloomberg Studio
Speaker 1: at one point out stay with us. As of last year,
Speaker 1: the private equity firm Blackstone now has a majority stake
Speaker 1: in bumble. What kind of resources and access has that
Speaker 1: afforded you to take advantage and scale Our partnership with
Speaker 1: black Stone is absolutely incredible. I have so much respect
Speaker 1: and admiration for the team there, for their leadership, for
Speaker 1: their incredible support and championing of us, both as a
Speaker 1: team and as a business. UM. It has really been
Speaker 1: the highlight of my entire career to work with Blackstone UM.
Speaker 1: It has been a remarkable success story from a private
Speaker 1: equity and high growth tech business standpoint, and there's not
Speaker 1: so many of those UM, so it was a bit
Speaker 1: of a of a unique UM match, but it has
Speaker 1: been absolutely sensational and they have really given us UM
Speaker 1: a wide range of resources and support, ranging from helping
Speaker 1: us scale our talent, to placing our board, to helping
Speaker 1: us dig deeper into data analytics and really double doubling
Speaker 1: down on privacy and security and you know coming in
Speaker 1: and really helping us just really further accelerate the business
Speaker 1: from every every side. UM and I have a great
Speaker 1: partnership with with the folks over there, and has just
Speaker 1: been it has really been a remarkable opportunity. There's been
Speaker 1: talk about an I p O a six to eight
Speaker 1: billion dollar I p O. Does black Stones involvement now
Speaker 1: change the path forward? So I cannot comment on the
Speaker 1: future prospect of a potential I p O. But I
Speaker 1: can tell you that we are working hand in hand
Speaker 1: every day black Stone and Bumble to pursue UM the
Speaker 1: best future outcome for the business. And we love our
Speaker 1: partnership and we stay very close UM on all future
Speaker 1: potential opportunities where a high growth business, and so we're
Speaker 1: exploring all options now. Tender, along with all the other
Speaker 1: dating apps, is now your competition. So why should people
Speaker 1: use Bumble when there are now Pick your Flavor, Coffee Meats, Bagel, Hinge,
Speaker 1: the League, all of these other options out there. We
Speaker 1: fundamentally believe that the way a relationship starts is very
Speaker 1: um suggestive of how it will end, and we're really
Speaker 1: trying to recalibrate the way relationships begin so they can
Speaker 1: become more healthy, more equitable, more long lasting. And when
Speaker 1: a woman makes the first move, she really establishes control
Speaker 1: and has um you know, an equal footing from the
Speaker 1: very first hello. And that's what we really fundamentally believe
Speaker 1: sets us apart from a product standpoint. Even if you
Speaker 1: saw the same person on five products on Bumble. Saying
Speaker 1: hello first changes the course of the way that relationship
Speaker 1: will go and the way that conversation will go, and
Speaker 1: it really does just promote more healthy and equitable relationships
Speaker 1: for all. Any dating app has the problem that once
Speaker 1: you create a successful match, those people don't need the
Speaker 1: app anymore, certainly don't need to pay a subscribe ship.
Speaker 1: How do you reconcile that and keep making money? That
Speaker 1: is an issue for certain dating apps. But we are
Speaker 1: not just a dating app. We offer so many other
Speaker 1: verticals inside our product, and we see that our users
Speaker 1: and our customers really come for more than just dating.
Speaker 1: We have a large sector of our user base that
Speaker 1: comes and uses all three modes, which is dating, friend finding,
Speaker 1: and business opportunities. Does that mean then you're competing with
Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and snapchat? And how do
Speaker 1: you compete? What's really interesting about the Instagrams and the
Speaker 1: facebooks and the snapchats of the world. You're communicating with
Speaker 1: your friends. That is the place you are keeping in
Speaker 1: touch with the network you already have. You are commenting
Speaker 1: on friends photos and exchanging um updates with one another.
Speaker 1: Bumble connects you to people you don't know yet. So
Speaker 1: Bumble is really what comes before social media. This is
Speaker 1: what is giving you a network. This is what is
Speaker 1: expanding your opportunities of who you know. This is introducing
Speaker 1: you to new people, and then down the road you
Speaker 1: can engage with those folks on other social media platforms.
Speaker 1: So Facebook is two people you know, Bumble is two
Speaker 1: people you don't. All right, Whitney Wolf heard, founder and
Speaker 1: CEO of Bumble. Thank you so much, Whitney for taking
Speaker 1: the time to join us. Great to have you here
Speaker 1: Bloombrook Studio at one point. I was produced and edited
Speaker 1: by Kevin Hines. Our executive producer is Alison Weiss. Our
Speaker 1: managing editor is Danielle Culpritson, with production assistance from Mallory Abelhausen.
Speaker 1: I'm Emily Chang, your host and executive producer. This is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg