1 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Thoughts podcast. 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Allaway and I'm Joe Wise Joe. It is 3 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: a very special episode of the Odd Blots podcast. It 4 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: is the Christmas call in Show. I am very excited. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: We've never done you know, we've never done an episode 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: like this. We've never really had like sort of listener participation, 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: We've never had anything resembling a call in show. We've 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: never really done an episode like about us, which feels 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: a little narcissistic. I usually like being I like I 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: like asking questions more than answering questions, right, That's why 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: we all became journalists. But you're right, this is a 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: special one for us. We asked people to send in 13 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 1: audio recordings of them asking us questions, and we are 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: now going to attempt to answer them. We also are 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: doing this in in junction with our producer, Carmen Rodriguez. 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: She is here with us right now. And Carmen, you 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: put together some questions of your own, right I have? 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: I have, And I just feel like I'm being robbed 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: of my moment to say thanks for having me, so 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: thanks for having me jumped right into the perfect way. 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: I guess You're not the perfect guest, the perfect coast, 22 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: the perfect host, the perfect co host, but it is 23 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: exciting that the listeners are hearing your voice for the 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: first time. I guess maybe they heard it on some 25 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: of those live episodes. Maybe maybe. Anyway, thank you for 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: having me. I'm happy to be here, even the I'm 27 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: here every day we are. We are happy to have 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,919 Speaker 1: you in front of the camera and the microphone UM 29 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: as opposed to behind it for once. Uh, what's your 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 1: first question? My first question is how did you meet 31 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: and how was odd Lots born. I guess I'll start 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: with the beginning, which is I remember the first time 33 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: I met Joe, and you know, we we had both 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: been covering UM finance and markets for a long time. 35 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: Joe was at Business Insider at the time and I 36 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: was at the Financial Times, And I remember I met 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: him in a bar in Midtown and it must have 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: been like two thousand twelve or it was in the 39 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: midst of the Eurozone crisis, and we were having a 40 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: sort of finance Twitter gathering, but Joe and I showed 41 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: up first. And I remember, for those who have never 42 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: met Joe in person, he can be intense and I 43 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: remember there was no like, no chit chat. It was 44 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: just like, Hi, I'm Tracy, Hi I'm Joe. And then 45 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: Joe's first question was like, so you think the Eurozone 46 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: is going to collapse? That was a yeah, no, yeah, 47 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: that's Tracy is right about that. I'm not good at like, 48 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: you know, chit chat and stuff like. I just want 49 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: to get right into it. But anyway, obviously, um, you know, 50 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: we hit it off pretty well despite the lack of chip. 51 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: I joined Bloomberg in late so basically exactly eight years ago, 52 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: and as part of like my job at Bloomberg is 53 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: like evolved numerous times since then, like I've done numerous 54 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: different things and different permutations. But one of the first 55 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: things I was given the opportunity to do is Okay, 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna do something digital. Wasn't a podcast or anything 57 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: like that yet, and I had a chance to go 58 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: out and hire some people to work, and Tracy was 59 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: the very first person that I wanted to hire. Clearly, 60 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: I answered the your zone question correctly, you got it right. 61 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: I don't remember what you said, but clearly you got 62 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: it right. Because I had always been a fan of 63 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: Tracy's work when she was at the f t and uh, yeah, 64 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: she agreed to come on, and you know, it's like 65 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: she had been at Bloomberg once, so there was like 66 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: a little like bureaucracy like getting back and all that stuff. 67 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: But we didn't really know what we were doing. But 68 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: I was excited and that yeah, and so um that's 69 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: how we both both wounded up here nice great so 70 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: on the then and then I guess I'm like the 71 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: podcast question and it just before we forget about that. 72 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: We sort of like didn't know what we were doing 73 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: and we're doing a lot of different things, and I 74 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: remember like one day I like turned to Tracey. I 75 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: was like, we do a podcast together. And you know, 76 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: we sort of like at the time, podcast weren't nearly 77 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: as big as they are now. Not every media company 78 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: like had their whole podcast strategy and all these podcast 79 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: startups and Bloomberg was like, yeah, okay, you guys can 80 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: We don't know what it's gonna be about or anything 81 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: like that, but all right, we'll give you like an 82 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: hour of radio studio once a week or something to 83 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: do whatever. We didn't know what odd Lots was going 84 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: to be about, but turn on the microphone. And that 85 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: was late twenty fifteen who've been doing it like seven years. 86 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: Did you ever have a moment when you were like, Okay, 87 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: we should really hone in on what it is that 88 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: we're doing here because we're all over the place like 89 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: at the beginning, or did it just kind of naturally 90 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: form itself into what it is now? I mean, I 91 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: think I think that kind of flexibility is in my mind, 92 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: a strength of odd lots, and it means that, like, 93 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: we haven't confined ourselves to one topic in particular, and 94 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: it means that we've been able to evolve along with 95 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: the news cycle. So if you go back and look 96 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: at some of our early episodes, some of them are 97 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: really out there. Like I remember we did one on 98 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: Nana's basically because I'd read a book about bananas. For nowadays, 99 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: we would look at that episode and say, it's a 100 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: banana supply chain episode. But then we did a lot 101 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: of finance stuff. You know, we just sort of like 102 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: went along with the news cycle until we arrived at 103 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: where suddenly a lot of it was about things happening 104 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: in the real economy. And I think that's really benefited 105 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: us that we haven't said, you know, this is a 106 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: podcast specifically about this and then been bossed in. I 107 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: do think, you know, maybe late nineteen, like it's tracy, 108 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: like the first episodes, you could go back and look 109 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: like they're super random, like bananas. We did a few 110 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: episodes about like Florida real estate. We did an episode 111 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: about catfish, the catfish bubble, the catfish bubble. We did 112 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: an episode I think about cattle trade, and he was 113 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: there kind of all over the map. I think it 114 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: was like late nineteen we started like finding it a 115 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: little bit, you know. We did some of the uh 116 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: we did an episode I think with resulting in when uh, 117 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: they'll look qudity and the repo stuff and the federal 118 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: reserves are draining. But it really was early with the 119 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: pandemic that it felt like we were starting to get 120 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: a groove in terms of what is the show kind 121 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: of about and what is our relationship between the episodes 122 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: and the news cycle. And I think that's what we 123 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: really found out rhythm. On that note, I also wanted to, 124 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: you know, to continue that basically. So I've seen you 125 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: sort of follow the pulse of what's going on in 126 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: markets and that kind of dictates a lot of the programming. 127 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: But every now and then you kind of get these 128 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: like weird, unexpected connections, and I think that's very particular 129 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: to the Odd Lots brand, And so I want to know, 130 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: have you ever seen these unexpected connections directly or somewhat 131 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: directly affect the market structures that aren't the more cyclical 132 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: things in the stories or anything like that. You are, yeah, well, 133 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: I think I think, like the way I think about 134 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: markets is it's sort of this tangled web, and some 135 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: bits of the web are more obvious than others, but 136 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: some of them are really hidden. And so I think 137 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: whenever you have something big happens, or you have a 138 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: crisis of some sort, you kind of start to pull 139 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: the threads and you start to see these connections. And 140 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: the great thing about All Lots is we will have 141 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: a conversation about one thing um like semiconductors, and then 142 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: it just leads us down a rabbit hole to the 143 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: next thing. And the global economy and markets right now 144 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: are so interconnected that you are always finding those hidden relationships, 145 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: and so it's almost like it's really easy to book 146 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: episodes now because one episode will naturally lead into five 147 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: other episodes. And we always joke about it that we 148 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: come away with an episode with five other episode ideas, 149 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: but it's really true. Yeah. You know. The other thing 150 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: I would say these days too that makes it easy 151 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: is and we've talked about this and listeners have talked 152 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: about this, like for years. I would definitely say our 153 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: episode topics financial for obvious reasons. You know, it's coming 154 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: out of the financial crisis and you know, and then 155 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: are like episode with COVID and the pandemic started screwing 156 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: more towards physical supply change, and so now you just 157 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: see it everywhere, right, like you just whether it's like 158 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: prices on the menu or everyone experiencing a shortage of something. 159 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: And so then we sort of it's all like the 160 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: physical visible world becomes a really big source. Now you 161 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: just like see it everywhere, and so trade like there's 162 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: too many topics for us to possibly discuss, Like there's 163 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: always more things we want to talk about that we 164 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: could talk about like in a given month or a 165 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: given week, just because like you look around like, oh 166 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: that'd be interesting, that'd be interesting, And so yeah, there's 167 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: just a it's a it's an endless fire hose of 168 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: topics that we see from just observing the real world. 169 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite unexpected moment, unexpected connections moment. Oh, 170 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: I have one, and I only know this because I 171 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 1: wrote about it, But it's um, sawdust and housing and 172 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: milk prices. So so you know when we're talking about 173 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: this sort of web of relationships in the real economy. 174 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: And this is a good example, which is that after 175 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: two thousand eight, you had a rise in milk prices 176 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: and there was someone who like dug into why that 177 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: was happening, and they found out that the reason it 178 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: was happening was because the housing bubble had burst, so 179 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: there wasn't as much housing construction, which meant that there 180 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: wasn't as much sawdust being produced. And it turns out 181 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: that cows really like to sleep on beds of sawdust. 182 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: So basically, because of two thousand eight and the housing 183 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: bubble bursting, a bunch of cows were unhappy and we're 184 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: producing less milk, which translated into higher milk prices. I 185 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: just want to jump in here really quick and say 186 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: that that reading that before you said this um actually 187 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: won me at trivia the other night because someone was like, 188 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: do cows produce more or less milk when they sleep 189 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: on sawdust? And I'm like, I don't know who wrote 190 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: this question. It was one of those card games you 191 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: have to guess whether it's true or false. And I 192 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: was like, that is you knew? They like, yeah, it 193 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: has to be more sawdust because you have to be 194 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: comfortable and happy so that they make my milk. Anyway, 195 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you. I did win. Yes, yes, 196 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: I think the recent one we did with Ken Jerash 197 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: where he mentioned that because of the semiconductor shortage, they 198 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: produced fewer cars. Because they produced fewer cars, they had 199 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: less demand for hides for seeds. Because there was less 200 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: demand for hides for seeds, there was less gelatin produced 201 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: from as a byproduct, and that impaired the production of 202 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: gummy bears. It was like a really amazing one that 203 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: I would have never thought of. But I do think 204 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: it speaks to like the complexity of the Like there 205 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: is sort of this obvious complexity to supply chains, right, 206 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: it's like point A, point B, point ce you just 207 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: roup something than the whole ripple effects. But I think 208 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: it's like seeing these sideways things where it's like the 209 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: even Ken I think in that episode he's like, it's 210 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: not a supply chain, it's a supply web, and that 211 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: was really interesting, Like there's not just like some start 212 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: product and end product. There's like all these sideways moving 213 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: from all the by products that get created, the waste 214 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: products that get used, and the other things. And I 215 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: think it's really hard explains why it's really hard to 216 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: know how huge disruptions to society like a pandemic are 217 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: really going to play out because no one talks about 218 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: these things in normal time. It's like they're so submerged, 219 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: so invisible during normal times. You only see them after 220 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: the fact. Like shoot, the impairment of cars affected gummy bears, 221 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: no one would ever talk about that relationship prior to 222 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: it having been exposed. And that's for your next trivia game, listeners, Yes, 223 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: do you have anything that you now can't stop thinking about? 224 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: Like I think an example where for me would be 225 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: I'm eating Anthony Bourdain's I'm reading Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential, 226 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: and he describes about how how chefs designed their menu 227 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: based off of what's available and when when they're delivered. 228 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: Like if you're lady, if you're ordering fish on a Thursday, 229 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: that might not be the best day because it's not 230 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: as fresh, whether or not this is true now It's 231 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: all I can think about whenever I look at a menu, 232 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: So like, have you learned anything via odd lots that 233 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: still sticks with you in the same capacity today? I think, 234 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: for me, the one thing and it's not like some 235 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: sort of like necessarily idiosyncratic thing like that, but I'm 236 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: and maybe it's not even the odd lots, but I'm 237 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: very I really notice energy waste in heat, particularly after 238 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: all the episodes we've done on European energy costs and 239 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: having to turn down the temperature and stuff like that. 240 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: Like a few months ago, Joe has turned into like 241 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: the ultimate Dad where you just wander around the house 242 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: like flipping off light switches and turning down the third step. Well, 243 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: a few months ago I went to a public beach 244 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: and it was like a shot hour at the beach 245 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: and you know, like clean off your feet and stuff 246 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: like that, and the shower had a warm water option, 247 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: and I'm like, what are you doing, Like people don't 248 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: need warm waters at a public shower at a beach 249 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: to white to wash up your feet. I was like, 250 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: this is a really scandalous waste of energy. Like two 251 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: years ago, like oh, like turn on the showers like 252 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: nice warm water for feet, But I was like, this 253 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: is a huge waste. Why didn't they even give this option? 254 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: So I do think that like energy waste and heat 255 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: in particular, like I just like think about all the 256 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: time all the time. Now, yeah, I don't take it 257 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: for granted anymore. I mean I guess on a similar note, 258 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: I think about supply chains a lot more than I 259 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: used to. But I also, you know, setting the real 260 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: economy stuff post side. I also think a lot about 261 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: incentives and why people do the things they do, like 262 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: often have to do much more with short term incentives 263 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: than necessarily like rational long term outcomes. For instance, if 264 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: you if you're talking about like wire invest or is 265 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: investing in risky, higher yielding stuff, Well it's because they 266 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: have a bunch of new inflows and they have like 267 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: a yield bogey that they need to actually meet. And 268 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: so I think about that a lot more like how 269 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: are the incentive set and how does that influence what 270 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: people are actually doing? Pivoting away now and talking about crypto. 271 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: Was there a moment when you decided like, okay, we 272 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: should actually start paying attention to this and taking it seriously, 273 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: at least for the newsake. I would love to know 274 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: if you had a moment like that, Joe, you go first, well, 275 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, like, look, so I'm a market s reporter. 276 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: I always have been, and people ask me what's market 277 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: and I would say completely and ironically, it's like it's 278 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: a line that goes up and down. If there's a 279 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: line on a screen that goes up and down, it's 280 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: probably a market story. Uh, And Crypto is like the 281 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: ultimate line that goes up and down. And you know, 282 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: in the beginning, I think it was. It didn't take 283 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: very long for me not to like take it seriously 284 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: per se, but to realize that maybe some of my 285 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: assumptions about like oh this is just a flash in 286 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: the pan, like we're gonna be wrong. And I probably 287 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: like wrote some like Crypto obituaries and like twenty eleven 288 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: or something like that, and then like eventually, like it 289 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: didn't die, and I kept thinking it would. So at 290 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: some point I guess I was like, well, tried to 291 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: wrap my head around like what is this, like what 292 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: is actually going on? And after like a decade, like 293 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: I still don't really have like an opinion or review 294 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: or an idea where it's going, but I guess if eventually, 295 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: like something doesn't die long enough, if it goes on, 296 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: then naturally I think if you're a journalist or if 297 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: you're anyone, you should sort of have some like, Okay, 298 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: what am I getting wrong? Maybe I should actually like 299 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: pay attention so something we are in I remember writing 300 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: a piece four Business Insider, and I was like I 301 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: was wrong, like about crypto, and I sort of like 302 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: admitted it. And I did not like, oh, bitcoin is 303 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: gonna become the world's reserve currency or something or anything 304 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: like to capitulatory, but I did say, like, okay, like 305 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: I it hasn't died, and I don't think it's going to. 306 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: And there's some interesting problems that it seems to solve, 307 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: like it in computer science. And ever since then, I've 308 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: just sort of had this like tried to be like 309 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: open mind and curious, and after all this time, I 310 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: still don't have a view, but you know, I try 311 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: to be trying to be open minded that like there's 312 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: something there. So two things, they're one I totally agree 313 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: with the idea of crypto is like the ultimate expression 314 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: of lines going up or down, like the ultimate momentum play. 315 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: And so if you cover markets like you know, there 316 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: is a natural interest. The second thing is someone once 317 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: described it to me as far more interesting than it 318 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: is important, which I thought was a really good way 319 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: of putting it, because you're talking about the creation you know, 320 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about new technology, but you're also talking about 321 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: the creation of a new type of money, and that 322 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: just opens up all these interesting questions about well, what 323 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: is money? And how do you design a new financial system? 324 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: And then lastly, the one other thing I would say 325 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: is I think we made a conscious decision to engage 326 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: with the space and try to ask some of the 327 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: harder questions like where does the yell to actually come from? 328 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: What is the use case for this brand new technology 329 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: that you say is going to change the world. And 330 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: you know, we have asked those questions in various iterations 331 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: for many many years now, um, and it's an open 332 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: question about whether or not we've gotten a satisfactory answer, 333 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: but like we have tried to engage with the space 334 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: to ask those hard questions. Yeah, I think like engaging 335 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 1: with the space like in good faith and like you 336 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: know sort of and it's like let's engage with it 337 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: on its own terms, and like talk to people who 338 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: un ostensibly are its best, uh, you know, the best, 339 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: most involved characters who should have the best answers, and 340 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: to sort of like come at it with it's like, yeah, 341 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: clearly we have skepticism. We don't really know what it's 342 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: forwards going. We want to like hear honest answers and 343 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: have like genuine questions. But it's true that even after 344 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: all this time, like I literally have no idea like 345 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: what it's ultimately going to be used for, if anything. 346 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: So we're going to get to the questions for the 347 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: audience soon. But do you have a favorite guest that 348 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: you've had on over the years. I think, I mean, 349 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: we have so many. Um it's like asking us to 350 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: name favorite children. Um. I I really enjoyed having this 351 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: was before your time, Carmen. This was way in the beginning. 352 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: We had on the archaeologist Arthur Demorrist, who's been at 353 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: various times described as the real life Indiana Jones. And 354 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: I have like a very small hobby where I like 355 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: to read archaeology and anthropology books and so talking to 356 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: him was fascinating, and I remember the conversation was about 357 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: the collapse of civilizations. I think about that episode a lot. 358 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if I you know, I really liked 359 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: a recent episode with Gordon McGill, which I don't know. 360 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, is he my favorite guest? I would 361 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: not necessarily say that, but I would say, like, in 362 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: terms of what I would say if I wanted to identify, 363 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: if I wanted to send someone what I would think. 364 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: It's like a very like quint to Central episode of 365 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: Odd LODs would be something like that, we like dive 366 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: into something deep. We talked to a guest who was 367 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: not like a huge household name, which is one of 368 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: the things I really like about having done this show 369 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: for years, Like we have had some really big guests on, 370 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: like big names, and I'm really like thrilled that they'll 371 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: come on, Like it's cool. How often like say Neil 372 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: cash Cary, the head of the Minneapolis Fed, has come on, 373 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: or Jan Goldman Sacks for people like that. But I 374 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: have to say, for me, like, the most satisfying thing 375 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: or one of the most satisfying things that we do 376 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: is when we find someone Tracy mentioned Arthur, people who 377 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: aren't necessarily household names, and people are like, oh, this 378 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: is someone who really uh is good? You know? Stincent 379 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: Dean The lumber Trader is another one. Kind of like that. 380 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: People who are like really in some area aren't nearly huge, 381 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: but because of their localized expertise, can really speak to 382 00:19:51,400 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: some really big macro topic. Should we take some questions 383 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: from the audience? Hi, Tracy and Joe, This is well 384 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: thanking from London. Over the last couple of years, Odd 385 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: Lots has become a favorite podcast. I have to admit, 386 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: though there are episodes like those on market structure, what 387 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: my comprehension level is in the most optimistic estimate, given 388 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: the breadth of topics you gets covered with the perfect 389 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: guests to each of you have a comprehension of of 390 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: your episodes, Thanks and keep up the great work. Uh 391 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: do we actually understand what we're talking about? I mean, 392 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: I would say, like, we cover a lot of stuff, 393 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: and I think it would be unrealistic to assume that, 394 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: like both Joe and I arrive at every episode with 395 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: a total understanding of the particular market or topic that 396 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: we're speaking about. And I think that actually lends itself 397 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: to a better show because we are starting at the 398 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: same level of knowledge as your average listener, and so 399 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: we can ask the basic questions like what do we 400 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: mean when we say like whatever? Um? And then the 401 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: other thing I would say is uh, I don't know 402 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: if our listeners know, but Joe and I UM. We 403 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: go through all the transcripts of our show and we 404 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: edit them ourselves and we publish them, and it takes 405 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: hours to do. But I actually kind of like doing 406 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: it because it gives you a chance to go back 407 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: and read everything and really like internalize it in a 408 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: way that maybe you didn't have the chance to do 409 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: when you were actually speaking. So from that perspective, the 410 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: transcripts help. I couldn't agree. I couldn't agree. More like, 411 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: first of all, there are episodes particularly related to market 412 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: structure or bond market liquidity or fed plumbing, etcetera. I'm like, 413 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: I think I'm just going to sort of sit back 414 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: and listen to Tracy and I guess talk because I 415 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: feel like I know the less. But as Tracy pointed 416 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: out to like, that's really like I I do think 417 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: it worked often coming to topic with like not that 418 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: much knowledge or maybe not that much prep because then 419 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: you are sort of like asking the questions that naturally. 420 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: Like when I think of like odlats, I think like 421 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: we have a very intelligent listener listener base, but you know, 422 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: like anyone else, like there's only there's a limit to 423 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: how much you can be informed on. So I think 424 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: a lot of our questions are sort of like what 425 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: are like a fairly smart, plugged in person asked about 426 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: a subject with which they really were unfamiliar. And I 427 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: think that is sort of the top the approach that 428 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: Tracy and I take to a lot of these interviews. 429 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: For what it's worth, I think that's a strength of 430 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: the show because a lot of people come in and, 431 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: like this person said, they don't really know everything, but 432 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: by the end of it, like, well I understood some 433 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: of it now, so I really just a little bit Well, 434 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: even if you're putting you're just putting something on someone's 435 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: radar so that they can, you know, go off and 436 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: learn about it more after the episode. I think that's 437 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: important to should be here. The next one, this is 438 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,959 Speaker 1: Leo from Massachusetts, and my question is what are your 439 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: uncut thoughts on MMT? That once for Tracy and for Joe, 440 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: what are your uncut thoughts on Austrianism? Thanks shall go 441 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: first with m m T for it. I'm not sure 442 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: I can do totally uncut thoughts um okay uh A 443 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: nice thing. First. So I'm on the record this year 444 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: as saying that my most MMT adjacent thought is that 445 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: if a problem can be solved with money, then it's 446 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: probably not that big of a problem. And I think 447 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: that reflects m m t s emphasis on real resources, 448 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: and I think like that part of it has genuinely 449 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: been useful for the past couple of years. I guess 450 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: the bit that I'm a little bit less convinced by is, 451 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, the emphasis on the constraint to government spending 452 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: is inflation. Like that's what mm T tells you. It's 453 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: not that a government has a budget like a household. 454 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: It's that is what they're spending on actually going to 455 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: cause inflation in the short term or long term. And 456 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: so you hear a lot about, you know, people saying, well, 457 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: MMT change the narrative. So now we don't have politicians 458 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: who go, oh, we can't afford this. Instead we have 459 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: discussions about is this inflationary or not? And I really 460 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: think one of the things we've learned from the past 461 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: two years is that actually we do not have a 462 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: good understanding of what causes inflation or how it works. 463 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: So I'm not sure passing the buck from like can 464 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: we afford this or not? Too? Is this going to 465 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: cause inflation or not? Is that useful? And I think 466 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: like the idea of politicians getting together in real time 467 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out like if we do this, 468 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: is that going to cause a price spike? Like basically 469 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: I think you're you're trading one debate for another. That's it. 470 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: I like. I like both those answers, the plus and 471 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: the minors. Okay, Austrian is um you know when I 472 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: was like a kid in college. I still have. I 473 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: have a copy of Human Action Lidwig Vonsis book on 474 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: my in fact, Nathan Tanks recently he was at my 475 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: house face only, and he tweeted a photo of me. 476 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: Hold as you can go and find it. So that's proof. 477 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: I have read a fair amount of Austrian economics. I 478 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 1: don't know like the thing. I don't find it that useful. 479 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: I don't find it that interesting. If I'm being totally honest, 480 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: like I've read a fair amount. Seems kind of repetitive. 481 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure if it has much connection. I 482 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: want to say something like nice about it. I don't 483 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: think that like assuming that the starting point of like 484 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: the economy is this, like pure market, is even that 485 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: useful even in the most abstract sense. Um, I'm trying 486 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: to think of something like nowice like that like incorporated 487 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: Austrian thinking. By and large, it just seems like to 488 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: imagine a world and a set of scent incentives that 489 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: strict me is pretty divorced from anything real or useful. 490 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I wanted to say something kind of nice 491 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: like Tracy did, and I have some some of my 492 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: best friends are Austrian. Now I have some I have 493 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: some choke say about it. I don't know, Yeah, alright, sorry, 494 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: I wish I could say something. I wish I could 495 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: say something like more. But in all that kind of 496 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: it's all good. We can we can go onto the 497 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: next one. So in when I started listening, a lot 498 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: of the financial conversations were around financialization and plumbing in 499 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: the financial system. So the switch from liberal to sufur 500 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: reverse repo rate spiking UM just generally questions around whether 501 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: the zero interest rate policy was actually working and whether 502 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: the natural interest rate had changed. UM, and we were 503 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: in a new era, and now the question seems to 504 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: have shifted to more real economy topics, geopolitics, oil, um, 505 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: a lot of issues around inflation, supply chains. So my 506 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: question is, are we in a true paradigm shift where 507 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: for the next decade or so we can expect the 508 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: questions to stay focused on the real economy as opposed 509 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: to financialization. Thank you. You know, it's a good question. 510 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: And I don't know, like obviously, like as the question 511 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: or as Jonathan notes, like, yeah, absolutely, um, there's been 512 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: this like shift and we've alrea and we've talked about it, 513 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 1: paradigm shift. I suspect I do think that the twenty 514 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: tens for certain things like energy security, semiconductor availability, certain 515 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: things like that. I think a lot of governments kind 516 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: of we're a little bit asleep at the wheel, assumed 517 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: that a lot of these things were taken care of, 518 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: and that, like particularly with energy security, it was just 519 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: not top of mind, and it was sort of like, Okay, 520 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: fossil fuels are going to ride off into the sunset, 521 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: and we're going to replace them by electrical cars and 522 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: other forms of renewable energy. And this is the final chapter. 523 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: And I think we did get a pretty rude awakening 524 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: over the last year about how difficult. This process is 525 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: how much governments have to take energy security again, how 526 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 1: unstable even the source of the commodities for electrification are 527 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: going to be. Even if things settle down, and even 528 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: if prices come down and we don't end these supply 529 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: chain disruptions fade and inflation comes down, I don't think 530 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: it'll be a while before we can forget the physical 531 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: world is, so to speak, like these are long cycles, 532 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: and so I think these are now, regardless of price, 533 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: going to be pretty top of mind topics for some time. Yeah, 534 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: I would agree with that, And it actually it kind 535 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: of goes back to what we were discussing with with MMT, 536 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: which is like, so if you can throw money at 537 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: a problem and solve it, it's probably not that big 538 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: of a problem. And I think this might be one 539 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: reason why we moved away from UM a lot of 540 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: financial episodes, although we still talk plenty about it. But 541 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: you know, one thing we learned, I think between two 542 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: thousand and eight and two is that there's a sort 543 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: of like endless number of things that central banks can 544 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: do to prop up a market or fix a particular 545 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: liquidity issue. So when you get these big financial crises, 546 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: like like oh, well, the FED just came out and 547 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: supported the entire U S treasury market, or they announced 548 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: the corporate bond buying program and things like that, Whereas 549 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: some of the real economy issues that were thrown up 550 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: by the disruptions of they are much more difficult to solve, 551 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: I think, because you're also dealing with two graphic restrictions 552 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: like you know who has oil and who doesn't, and 553 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: how do you actually move it from one place to another? 554 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: And so I think those relative shortages like have just 555 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,719 Speaker 1: been thrown into sharp relief by and I think it's 556 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: going to be hard for governments to forget that, which 557 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: is why you've seen more of an emphasis on how 558 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: we actually build up strategically critical infrastructure and resources and 559 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: things like that. This is Fam Glover calling in from Chicago. 560 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: Ifewer go back a medium amount of time, so like 561 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: five to ten years, what is the take that you 562 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: had at the time that is most wrong today? And why? 563 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: Oh wow? I mean, I'm pretty sure I wrote at 564 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: least two or three bitcoin obituary throughout my career, which 565 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: makes me reluctant to write another one. So the so 566 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: then it's then it really is going to die this time, 567 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: now that you're now that you're reluctant. Oh, that is 568 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: a that is a good question. I think I probably 569 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: would have assumed that, I mean, I definitely was wrong. 570 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: You know, I would. I would. I did not think 571 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: that we would have like a big inflationary spike like this. 572 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: I would have assumed that it would have taken a 573 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: lot more, either from a real economy standpoint or a 574 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: spending capacity or a sort of political collapse standpoint, to 575 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: get the sort of level of inflation that we've seen 576 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: over the course of two Also, like Tracy, you know, 577 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: probably many big, many cryptocurrency takes I've completely gotten wrong 578 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: trying to think those. I guess those are probably the 579 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: two big ones, two huge things. Basically, Yeah, two huge 580 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: things that I've gotten wrong. Great, should we hear from 581 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: another Joe from Justin? This is just Joe asking question. 582 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: And I am, by the way, for listeners, I am 583 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: in Austin. So the fact that we have another Austin, Texas, 584 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: we're desperately trying to keep things weird. My question for 585 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: you is, what's the weirdest thing you've ever seen someone 586 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: like a boatload of money trading? Oh? You know, um, 587 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: we did a Beanie Baby episode back in the day. 588 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: And I don't think I can't remember if I mentioned 589 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: this or not, but in like six or ninety eight, 590 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: like at the top of the beanie baby bubble, when 591 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: I was ten or eleven years old, I sold a 592 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: tie ed eyed colored lizard beanie baby at some like 593 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: market event for two hundred dollars and that was like 594 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: the most amount of money that I had ever seen 595 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: or had, And that was a highly successful trade for 596 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: me that I have never never since replicated. You know, 597 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: I had a trade. So I when I was after 598 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: my freshman year of high schools, like during the dot 599 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: com bubble, and I was like trading with a friend 600 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: and we did very well because everyone was doing well 601 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: in those days, and we took we had, like, um, 602 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: both of us, like took two thousand dollars from a 603 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 1: summer job, and like by the end of the summer 604 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: we had turned it into twenty thous dollars, which was 605 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: like pretty great obviously, but uh, by the end we 606 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: started getting really good and we like figured out there's 607 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: like weird glitch. We started trading like penny stocks, and 608 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: it was like we found some patterns that were like 609 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: pretty easy to replicate day after day. And it was 610 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: like one stock that I traded and I knew it 611 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: was going to go up a lot the next day, 612 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: and but I was also flying, I had, I was 613 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: studying abroad, and so I couldn't do anything with it. 614 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: And if I had like pushed back my flight to 615 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: Switzerland from study for studying abroad one day, I think 616 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: I would have made like fifty thou dollars overnight. I've 617 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: gone from twenty thousand to fifty thou and I didn't. 618 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: So it was sort of like I was like, so 619 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: I my biggest sort of like shocking thing was, you know, 620 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: are the biggest thing that I remember was uh, not 621 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: making a lot of money on one day. I can 622 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: tell the whole story some other time. So now still 623 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: keeps him up at night. Yeah, you know, we've never 624 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: actually done an episode which was like Joe's lessons trading 625 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: penny stocks. We should do those. Yeah, I think that'd 626 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: be interesting. Cool. Hi Tracy, Hi Joe, This is David 627 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,479 Speaker 1: calling to Berlin, Germany. First time caller, longtime listener. I 628 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: was wondering what do you too plan on doing for retirement, 629 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: like how, when and where if you plan to kick 630 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: the bucket in front of a terminal at the Bloomberg office. 631 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: That's fine too, but I think you've got a broad 632 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: enough variety of listeners. Were all on a different route. Oh, Matt, 633 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: do we do we plan to die in front of 634 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: our terminals in the Bloomberg? Yes. I do not see 635 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: myself doing anything else for the rest of my life. 636 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: I mean, like, if I retired, I would just will 637 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: just be at my computer posting and tweeting. So it's 638 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: like as long as Twitter exists, So I don't really 639 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: see my achieve whether I'm technically employed or not employed 640 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: in terms of what I do. UM. I believe Joe 641 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: when he says that I think one of the great 642 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: things about add lots is it does give you an 643 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: opportunity to talk about virtually anything that we're interested in. 644 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: So I mentioned, you know, archaeology and anthropology before, and 645 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: I would love to get an anthropologist on at some 646 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: point to talk about cryptocurrencies, UM and Wall Street in general. 647 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: So it does give you this opportunity to do a 648 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: bunch of different things. That said, I am a big 649 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: fan of like just going out and learning new skills 650 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: and doing new things. So it's it's hard for me 651 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: to imagine that like my entire life, I'm going to 652 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: be writing about finance and markets. I feel like I 653 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: will do something maybe alongside it at some point, you know, 654 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: before I forget the one other thing. I really want 655 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: to do something with music in my life, either like 656 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: sell a song or like play some concerts. I write 657 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: music I've played. I really like country music, So that 658 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: would be the one other thing I hope to achieve 659 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: something and the rest of my years beyond this is 660 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: like something or other to do with music. But even that, 661 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: all thoughts provides an outlet, Like we have done live 662 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: shows where you're perform We have a new genre of 663 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: music called financial country music. You have Joe to blame. 664 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: We could do that for We could do that by 665 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: this year. Cool. So we got some questions in from Twitter, 666 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: and there's no voice memos for those, but I'll read 667 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: them out loud from J. M. Cambreras. Question for you 668 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: both which role plays Twitter and building the topics for 669 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: your episodes in terms of finding guests, searching trends, getting background, 670 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: et cetera. Thanks for odd lots. It's awesome, huge. I mean, 671 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: you know it's not everything, but it's like a huge 672 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: source of inspiration in terms of literally meeting people, seeing 673 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: what people are talking about niche industry experts. That's actually 674 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: one of the main reasons I'd be concerned of like 675 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 1: Twitter everyone away the ability to find like random niche 676 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: people who know one specific thing and have them sort 677 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: of service too abroad to I can't think of another 678 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: platform that does it that well. I mean, I think 679 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,399 Speaker 1: I I'll take the opposite side of that, which is like, 680 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: you know, Twitter, Twitter, um, Twitter like can be a 681 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: massive distraction, but it's also really helpful from a productivity point, 682 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: and I think it basically just allows you to do 683 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: stuff that you would be doing in the normal course 684 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: of journalism, but just slightly faster. So instead of like 685 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: emailing a bunch of people and going like, oh, hey, 686 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: do you know anyone who might be good to talk 687 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: about the number prices or whatever, you can send out 688 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: a tweet and immediately have it go to thousands of 689 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: people who can direct you to the right person. So 690 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: to me, it's a productivity tool. I you know, would 691 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: I be sad if if it went away? Part of 692 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: me would be and I would probably spend more time 693 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: sending emails and stuff like that. But like I think, 694 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: I think we could still find good topics and good guests. 695 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: I mean, this episode would have been way harder to 696 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: make if it wasn't for Twitter. So I'm also nobody 697 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: asked me, but I'm team Twitter. Um Okay, So one 698 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: last question from Twitter. Speaking of um and at end, 699 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: drone In says Matt King of City has said twice 700 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: on your show that it's never the analyst recommending to 701 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: the portfolio manager to buy something. It's always the PM 702 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: that says that we have new inflow and we have 703 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 1: to put the money somewhere. So doesn't this suggest that 704 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: there's too much investable money and not investable opportunities after 705 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: us since two thousand global GDP doubled and increased again 706 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: by half, and that money has to go somewhere. So 707 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts on this, mostly because 708 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: I think about Matt King's research a lot. But this 709 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 1: is so I coined the term China's Great Ball of Money. 710 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: This idea that you just have a bunch of like 711 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: extra money that's in a closed financial system and it's 712 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: just rolling from thing to things, so it will go 713 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,800 Speaker 1: into housing and then it will go into stocks, and 714 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: then it will move back somewhere else. But if you 715 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: expand that, you know, China is an extreme example of that, 716 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: but if you expand that to the whole world, I 717 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: don't think it's like a massive stretch to say that 718 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: there is a lot of excess liquidity slashing around the 719 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: financial system and it needs to find a home somewhere, 720 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: and so sometimes it goes into things kind of indiscriminately, 721 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: which also ties into another one of my favorite sayings, 722 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: which is flows before pros, which is also based on 723 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: a Matt King note, and the idea there is that like, 724 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: sometimes the way to make alpha is just to invest 725 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: in the thing that everyone else is investing in or 726 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: will invest in early. And so, you know, in an 727 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,760 Speaker 1: era of sluggish economic growth, which um our our question 728 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: are alluded to, like maybe the way to outperform is 729 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 1: just to do pure momentum plays. And so that's like, 730 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: that's kind of how yeah, I think about that in 731 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: the context of crypto, which we already mentioned is the 732 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: ultimate momentum play. But I also think that more and 733 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: more of the market is like being driven by just 734 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: pure flows, and a lot of people are sort of 735 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: embracing that so, for instance, the explosion in short dated 736 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: um equity options like zero day options and stuff like that, 737 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: that to me is just people like purely betting on 738 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: like outcomes and flows. At that point, I just I'm 739 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: just gonna I agree with what Tracy said. Okay, that's 740 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: the right answer. Thanks, Joe, Yeah, I just agree with you. 741 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: I just agree with what you said. Should we leave 742 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: it there, Tracy? Are we going to leave it there? 743 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: Let's leave it there? Well. Thank you to everyone for 744 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: your questions. Thank you to Carmen for coming on the 745 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: podcast making our first front of camera appearance, and for 746 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: all your great questions as well, and all your help 747 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: producing over the past year. For those who don't know, 748 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: Carmen was kind of thrown in at the deep end 749 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: of odd lots um and there's a lot, a lot 750 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: to do, so you've definitely like stepped up to the 751 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: plate and had defend. Absolutely. Thank you. I'm going to 752 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: go blush in a corner now. This has been another 753 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: episode of the All Thoughts Podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You 754 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at Tracy Alloway and I'm 755 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: Joe Isn't Though. You can follow me on Twitter at 756 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,919 Speaker 1: the Stalwart. Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Arman 757 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 1: and Dash Bennett at Dashbot, and check out all of 758 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: our podcast Bloomberg under the handle at podcasts and more 759 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: odd Lots content go to Bloomberg dot com slash odd 760 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: Lots when we post those transcripts, we blog, and we 761 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: write a newsletter once week you should subscribe to. Thanks 762 00:40:47,160 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: for listening to