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Speaker 1: This dichotomy of like either your like a lutt eight

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Speaker 1: and you're off screens and flip phones only, or you're

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Speaker 1: a token max er and you're.

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Speaker 2: All freaking in.

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Speaker 1: Like. Hi, I live in the middle and I want

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Speaker 1: the amazing things that tech can give me, and I

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Speaker 1: also want to be a healthy, well adjusted human who

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Speaker 1: enjoys the world. Can we not figure out this sort

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Speaker 1: of middle zone like I've been thinking about it? Tell

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Speaker 1: me if this resonates with you as Goldilocks mode, not

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Speaker 1: too much, not too little, it's kind of just right.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 3: I'm Lori Siegel and you're listening to Mostly Human, a

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Speaker 3: tech podcast through a human lens. I'm so happy to

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Speaker 3: be here with you. I am a longtime fan.

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Speaker 2: Just full disclosure, Well, I am too, and I brought

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Speaker 2: you something. Oh is that okay? If I give it

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Speaker 2: to you now? I have a little.

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Speaker 3: Gift wow that you brought an offering you a kazoo.

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Speaker 2: And really annoying offerings.

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Speaker 3: Some might say, I love it so much, and there's

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Speaker 3: a reason why.

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Speaker 1: There is a reason why I brought you a kazoo,

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Speaker 1: not to just annoy the crap out of your family,

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Speaker 1: friends and co workers.

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Speaker 2: But because it increases your airflow.

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Speaker 1: I love that because I'm guessing you do spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time on your laptop.

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Speaker 2: Oh do I?

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Speaker 3: And before we did this interview, I was asked to

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Speaker 3: kind of monitor how much I was sitting. Oh, and

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Speaker 3: I think the headline was too much. Like I started

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Speaker 3: counting the hours yesterday. Yeah, and I don't say like minutes,

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Speaker 3: We're talking hours, Like it must have been like nine ten.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, you know, I promise I'm not just

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Speaker 3: watching like bad reality television. I was working, but like

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Speaker 3: it was an extraordinary amount of time sitting.

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Speaker 2: Which is a good.

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Speaker 3: Way to introduce the topic of today's conversation. You know,

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Speaker 3: we've talked so much about what tech has done to

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Speaker 3: our mind. Yeah, but honestly, I don't think I've ever

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Speaker 3: really talked about what it does to our bodies. Thank

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Speaker 3: God for you. This is the topic that you are

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Speaker 3: bringing to the table. What got you interested in this?

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Speaker 1: It was feeling like crap got me interested in this.

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Speaker 1: I think it was, you know, during the pandemic, everything

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Speaker 1: obviously went online and it was kind of amazing, right,

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Speaker 1: Like we adapted so quickly to being on WhatsApp with

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Speaker 1: our parents and zoom and you know, lying on the

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Speaker 1: couch and watching Netflix when we couldn't go outside, and

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Speaker 1: I think we all felt pretty crappy, and that made sense.

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Speaker 2: It was a pandemic after all.

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Speaker 1: But twenty twenty three was the moment where we were

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Speaker 1: coming out of that, and I noticed, like, just because

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Speaker 1: we were allowed to go outside didn't mean that things

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Speaker 1: had shifted back into real quote unquote life. My life

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Speaker 1: was totally still zoom zoom zoom.

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Speaker 2: My job went remote.

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Speaker 1: It was just this constant sort of screen time, and

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Speaker 1: combined with that, I just sort of noticed like I

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Speaker 1: would close my laptop at the end of the day

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Speaker 1: and still have just enough energy to sort.

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Speaker 2: Of crawl over to the couch to scroll, Like that

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Speaker 2: was it.

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Speaker 3: I just really understand that and relate to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well everybody did.

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Speaker 1: Everybody I talked to was like, I'm drained, I'm exhausted,

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Speaker 1: and like you said, we have heard like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: too much screen time is fracturing our attention, it's making

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Speaker 1: people anxious depressed. But to me this felt so physical,

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Speaker 1: and so it made me realize the gaps in my

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Speaker 1: basic biology knowledge and how little I knew about how

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Speaker 1: the body would respond to a constant not just barrage

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Speaker 1: of screens, but all the sitting. Like I had heard

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Speaker 1: sitting is the new smoking, like a decade agree, right.

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Speaker 2: But I was kind of like, okay, and yeah, what

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Speaker 2: so so what?

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Speaker 3: I think this is what we were saying even before

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Speaker 3: the camera started rolling.

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Speaker 2: It's like so often we just hear these platitudes.

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Speaker 3: That you know, that we're looking at on social media

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Speaker 3: and they're getting lots of views and everyone's like so

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Speaker 3: outrage like shocking, but we're like, so what and.

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Speaker 2: What now what? I think that's like the part that

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Speaker 2: I kind of struggle with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think your book really kind of gets

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Speaker 3: into the now what and how do we shift culture?

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Speaker 3: Before we get into it, I just want to look

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Speaker 3: at your background, which is fun.

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Speaker 2: You're a longtime tech journalist. Yeah, you I.

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Speaker 3: Imagine because like I know, I'm a longtime tech journalist.

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Speaker 3: I've see some weird things in my career.

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Speaker 2: You know you just like there was like during COVID,

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 3: Like embedding with QAnon, which was you know about that? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was such a nice, beautiful I remember it. Finally,

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Speaker 3: I'm curious about you, like what is are there stories

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Speaker 3: that stick with you? Any tech products, any like, what

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Speaker 3: is the weirdest thing, what's like keeping you when you

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Speaker 3: when you're writing the film of your career, like the

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Speaker 3: book of your life, what's the chapter that you're like,

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Speaker 3: huh wow, that is really something that stuck with me.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting to me that when you have these

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Speaker 1: experiences with tech at the time, it feels like what

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Speaker 1: is happening, This is crazy, gonna change society, and then

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Speaker 1: five ten years later you're like duh, like nobody even

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Speaker 1: I mean, the first time I got an iPhone.

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Speaker 2: I was like, holy, what is this? This is crazy?

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Speaker 1: This I can be at the playground watching well, watching

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Speaker 1: my kids and also like checking the library hours and

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Speaker 1: emailing my boss and all of it at the same time,

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Speaker 1: Like we forget how incredibly life altering that was. Especially

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Speaker 1: as a parent for me, I felt like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: can actually like maybe manage both. Yeah, obviously that was

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Speaker 1: not entirely true as the years went on and we

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Speaker 1: knew how hard that was, but I think it kept

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Speaker 1: me in the game, like for my career being able

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Speaker 1: to have a smartphone, which is like a kind of

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Speaker 1: big statement, but I'm standing by that. And so the

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Speaker 1: most recent similar sort of situation I guess I've had

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Speaker 1: is I mean, I'm really having a great time playing

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Speaker 1: around with LMS.

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Speaker 2: Me too. I can't help Twain.

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Speaker 3: I go back and forth between Chat and Claude me too.

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Speaker 3: It's like, I'm just like dating all around.

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Speaker 2: If you will with these what do you think? Totally?

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Speaker 3: I literally took an answer from Claude, put it into

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Speaker 3: CHATJIPT and said, rate this answer.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean it was. I love it. I'm totally

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Speaker 2: with you on this.

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Speaker 1: And I love to prompt something and then watch the

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Speaker 1: thinking process. I'm like, where's it going, what's it asking itself?

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Speaker 2: Like? How is that working? I'm fascinated.

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Speaker 1: So recently, a few months ago, I created you know,

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Speaker 1: I keep thinking, I'm a journalist.

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Speaker 2: I don't we don't make a crazy amount of money.

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Speaker 2: I would.

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Speaker 1: I wish I had like a personal advisory board, so

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Speaker 1: I created one on chat GPT. I have a CFO,

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Speaker 1: a CMA, a lot my longtime alleged therapist, a journalist

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Speaker 1: mentor a who else do I have on there?

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Speaker 2: Oh? A showrunner? I think those are the top five.

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Speaker 2: Oh A lawyer, Well you got.

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Speaker 3: It, I mean, and lawyers are so expensive, so for

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Speaker 3: a journalists to have to pay the lawyers. This is

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Speaker 3: like the unspoke. I hope people take a love from

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Speaker 3: the total. Yes, but it is really to keep us

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Speaker 3: out of jail. You really need a totally getting sued

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Speaker 3: exactly right.

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Speaker 2: And so for me like to be able to look,

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Speaker 2: are they do I take all their advice?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: But what I love doing is presenting a sort of

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Speaker 1: strategic question to the advisory board, having them each answer

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Speaker 1: from their perspective, like, so, financially, this is what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: this would be the implications, or my therapist therapist in

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Speaker 1: quotation marks would be like you have to ask how

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Speaker 1: much energy it would take to do this project?

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Speaker 2: Can you manage that? Right now? So they each come.

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Speaker 1: With their own way, And then I asked them to

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Speaker 1: debate amongst themselves and present me with the least worst

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Speaker 1: options that I have.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and fun, that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: That is so much more fun than how I'm just

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Speaker 3: kind of using them to playoff.

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Speaker 2: And did you train them each or are they yes?

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Speaker 1: I tried to give them a person to you know,

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Speaker 1: go like sort of model themselves on. And I tried

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Speaker 1: to also give them a set of ethical guidelines, right,

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Speaker 1: like the financial person I want to make clear, like

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Speaker 1: I am not about extracting people. Ten X returns is

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Speaker 1: not ethnical, right, and so like I tried to give

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Speaker 1: them guidelines as to what I was looking for to

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Speaker 1: model themselves after people I admire. I love that, and

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Speaker 1: also like I will disagree, like you know, I will say,

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Speaker 1: like I think the board is missing something, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they're like good point. Of course, they're like good point,

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Speaker 1: but they work for me, so they have to say that,

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Speaker 1: and it's just really fun.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing. I love that so much.

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Speaker 3: And I really am a big believer that, like we've

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Speaker 3: been through these these moments in tech where like you

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Speaker 3: do something and then nothing is ever the same after

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Speaker 3: this so normalized.

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Speaker 2: Like back in then when I got my start, it

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, sleep in a stranger's home or get

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Speaker 2: in a.

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Speaker 3: Stranger's car like uber, AIRBNBA not just your twenties, like

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Speaker 3: just the way you say it. Yeah, but it seems

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Speaker 3: so crazy and then all of a sudden it wasn't

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Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden it was just life.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm actually experiencing the same thing with lllms

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Speaker 3: that you talk about that I think is so fascinating.

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Speaker 3: For the good the bad. You say in the book,

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Speaker 3: tech is not neutral, and I totally agree with you, Like,

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Speaker 3: there are all these things we have to discuss and

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Speaker 3: and I think if we look at Note to Self,

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah show, this is like one of the first

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Speaker 3: shows that really treated our relationship with devices as a

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Speaker 3: subject worth a show which was so cool and so

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Speaker 3: really roundbreaking and forward thinking. Lord, brilliant your book. Your

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Speaker 3: the book it asked what we lose creatively when we're

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Speaker 3: never bored? Which I just I think is such a

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Speaker 3: brilliant question. Again, a question that was ahead of its time,

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Speaker 3: was so as well as it probably would do. Now

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Speaker 3: don't you hate that?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Like can you just republish?

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Speaker 3: What was the shift for you from from mind to

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Speaker 3: body to body electric, which is your new book.

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Speaker 2: Was this always where it was headed or was.

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Speaker 3: This something that really specifically real? Was there something that

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Speaker 3: really specifically redirected you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think you know again, it was for me that

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Speaker 1: sense of not just oh I can't concentrate, or oh

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Speaker 1: i'm you know, feel like out of like sucked into

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Speaker 1: my screens.

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Speaker 2: It was more my back hurts, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I don't like the way my shoulders look around

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Speaker 1: it over and technics a real thing, and I feel anxious,

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Speaker 1: and those all felt so visceral to me, and it

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Speaker 1: made me think, like, have we like neglected the fact

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Speaker 1: that we're contorting our our anatomy around these odds all

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Speaker 1: day long? Like we contort around them, they don't contort

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Speaker 1: around us. I mean, are the metaglasses going to take off?

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Speaker 1: That's a question I have for you. We can discuss,

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Speaker 1: but right now we you know, open up our phone

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Speaker 1: and we have to hold it a certain way to

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Speaker 1: look at it. Yeah. I think there's more sort of

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Speaker 1: audio interfaces are coming into the world, but we're definitely

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Speaker 1: not there yet. I carry around my laptop everywhere I

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Speaker 1: go and wherever I can put it. That's how I

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Speaker 1: arrange my body in order to do the things I

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Speaker 1: need to do. And so it just really begged the question, like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, what about our blood, flesh, bones, How

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Speaker 1: do they respond to this?

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Speaker 3: It's literally the most human question you could ask about technology,

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Speaker 3: and not enough people are asking it, but we're all

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Speaker 3: feeling it.

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Speaker 2: To some degree totally. I love the opening sentence of

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Speaker 2: your book.

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Speaker 3: The first sentence is I'm scared to write this book now,

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Speaker 3: just like you know, for reference. You even before tech

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Speaker 3: durnal is, you know, have done all sorts of journalism

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Speaker 3: that has taken you into high risk scenarios. You want

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Speaker 3: a bullet proof fest. You've been trained in kidnapping situations.

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Speaker 3: You've learned this was my favorite to decode six signals

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Speaker 3: left by guerrilla fighters to warn of homemade bombs.

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Speaker 1: Yes, these were back in the day when I was

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Speaker 1: a foreign news producer and like running around the world.

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Speaker 3: So you've been running around the world, You've been in

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Speaker 3: some gnarly situations. But you're sitting down to write this book,

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Speaker 3: and you say, I am scared to write this book.

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Speaker 2: Why what are you so afraid of?

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Speaker 1: I was afraid of that feeling, that feeling when you

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Speaker 1: look up and you don't know what time it is

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Speaker 1: and you realize you haven't.

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Speaker 2: Peed in three to four hours.

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Speaker 1: Your left foot is asleep, you your vision is blurry.

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Speaker 2: You feel a disassociation.

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Speaker 1: With the world going around you, and you know that's

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Speaker 1: doable occasionally, but writing a book requires hours at your laptop,

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Speaker 1: and some of it is delightful. When you get into

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Speaker 1: flow and you feel like you're connecting ideas and your

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Speaker 1: creative juices are flowing.

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Speaker 2: It is the best feeling in the world. But all

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Speaker 2: good things must come to an end.

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Speaker 1: The flow cycle does not last for eight, nine, ten hours.

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Speaker 1: It cannot, And so like, how do you manage the

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Speaker 1: physical capacity that you have when you're working with a machine.

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Speaker 2: That never stops?

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Speaker 1: That's what I was nervous about, finding the relationship between it.

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Speaker 3: And ironically, this is also what the book is like

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Speaker 3: totally about, right, So that's like a really meta about it,

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Speaker 3: you know, It's like this is such a meta thing

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Speaker 3: because like you're talking about the impact of what happens

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Speaker 3: when we're sedentary like this, and and what happens when

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Speaker 3: we wrap ourselves around technology, and technology wraps itself around

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Speaker 3: us to some degree. And now you're sitting here writing

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Speaker 3: this book, and I think there was a bit in

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Speaker 3: it where I saw, like a study you cited in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, a study found that sitting more than

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Speaker 3: ten hours a day significantly raises by.

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Speaker 2: Forty to sixty percent. That is definitely.

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Speaker 3: Significant the risk of heart attack, heart failure, and cardiovascular death.

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Speaker 2: So I get it.

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Speaker 3: I'd be afraid now that I've read your book, or

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm like, WHOA, this is a real this

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Speaker 3: is very very.

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Speaker 1: Real, But I don't want to like freak people out because,

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Speaker 1: like I think, I felt relieved that the answers were pretty.

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Speaker 3: Simple totally, and I want to get into all of

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Speaker 3: that part of the book. You teamed up with scientist

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Speaker 3: Keith Diaz and you did the body electric study. So

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Speaker 3: tell us about this study. How did this partnership with

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Speaker 3: Columbia University Medical Center come together? And if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 3: you got something like twenty thousand participants, which is pretty extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: How did this all happen?

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Speaker 1: So I was feeling crappy back to that moment, and

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Speaker 1: I actually heard was listening to the radio and heard

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Speaker 1: about a study that had been done by this guy

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Speaker 1: at Columbia Versity Medical School who was looking for the

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Speaker 1: least amount of movement that the human body needs in

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Speaker 1: order not to die an early death, like setting the

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Speaker 1: bar pretty darn low, right, But what I loved was

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Speaker 1: that he had actually found the answer. He had found

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Speaker 1: that five minutes of gentle movement walking for two miles

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Speaker 1: an hour on a treadmill a stroll, actually had outsized

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Speaker 1: results when it came to people's glucose, their blood pressure,

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Speaker 1: their mood, their ability to focus, their fatigue levels in

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Speaker 1: his lab he had found this, and so I was like, oh, what,

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Speaker 1: Like that's all we have to do. Like the idea

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Speaker 1: was like this interstitial movement throughout the day. It's like

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Speaker 1: and to be clear, it didn't matter if you worked

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Speaker 1: out in the morning, if you sat for all those

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Speaker 1: hours the rest of the day, you still face these

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Speaker 1: health harms and like probably hated your job at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day after sitting there for eight hours.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, the man has the answer. So

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Speaker 1: I called him up. I was like, dude, why aren't

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Speaker 1: we all doing this? This should be like in schools

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Speaker 1: and workplaces everywhere. And he's like, yeah, think about it, though.

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Speaker 1: You walk into kindergarten and what is the first thing

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Speaker 1: you learned that sitting and looking ahead or looking down

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Speaker 1: is what a good student or a good worker looks like.

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Speaker 1: We have software now that tracks people to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they're in their documents, but their curser is constantly

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Speaker 1: like moving around prison. Sitting is how we define success, diligence,

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Speaker 1: success exactly.

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Speaker 2: He's like, this is never gonna happen, and it made

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Speaker 2: me so mad. Lurie.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, but that's like wrong because The

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Speaker 1: other thing that there has been research into, and we

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Speaker 1: can go deeper into this, is that actually taking breaks

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Speaker 1: is good for working habits, that it actually is not

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Speaker 1: a bad thing when it comes to people's work habits.

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Speaker 1: So I said to him, I was like, well, this

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Speaker 1: is stupid. We need to ask people if they can

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Speaker 1: do it, Like, you don't know if you don't try.

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Speaker 1: You've had this small thing in the lab, and like,

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Speaker 1: I'm so tired of academics like being having their like

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Speaker 1: amazing things that they're learning locked up in their labs. Like,

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Speaker 1: let's get it out into the world. So we invited listeners,

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Speaker 1: my NPR listeners, you know.

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Speaker 2: We were like, are you feeling like crap?

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Speaker 1: If so, would you like to join a clinical trial,

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Speaker 1: a scientific study to find out if we can integrate

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Speaker 1: movement breaks into our days and to track the effects

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Speaker 1: that they have. So they could sign up to take

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Speaker 1: a five minute movement break every half hour during long

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Speaker 1: sedentary screen.

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Speaker 2: Time, every hour or every two hours.

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Speaker 1: Because we also wanted to test like maybe it was

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Speaker 1: impossible to do every half hour, maybe two hours was better.

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Speaker 1: Let's see what they what they feel. So we had

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Speaker 1: twenty three thousand people sign up. We crash the servers

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Speaker 1: at Columbia because they don't plan for that many people.

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Speaker 3: What a great signal though that you know, when you

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Speaker 3: go out there, people want to say, you feeling bad?

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Speaker 3: You want to be a part of this, Like a

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Speaker 3: lot of people are like, no, I don't want to

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Speaker 3: be a part of like a medical study. Right, So

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Speaker 3: it turns out all of us are feeling the same

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Speaker 3: thing that you really saw that.

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Speaker 2: You fell totally. And I mean, let's speak clear.

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Speaker 1: These are public radio listeners, and so it's a self

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Speaker 1: selecting group of people obviously, like people who are interested

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Speaker 1: in exactly all those things.

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Speaker 2: So we had them sign up.

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Speaker 1: But before we actually did that, he invited me. Keith

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Speaker 1: invited me to come up and try enter his actual

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Speaker 1: study in his lab myself and I love to be

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Speaker 1: a lab rat, I.

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Speaker 2: Know you do. Tell love it so fun. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, I am so in so.

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Speaker 1: But the week before he like, I had to wear

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Speaker 1: like three different accelerometers and pedometers, I had to wear

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Speaker 1: a glucose monitor. I can't even remember the other things

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Speaker 1: that I had to So they wanted to track like

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Speaker 1: what was my baseline? Right, Like how did I process sugar?

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Speaker 1: How many? How much did I move in a typical day.

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Speaker 1: Was my baseline a healthy person? And I was, And

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Speaker 1: so I was like, I was skeptical that this would

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Speaker 1: really make that much of a difference, just taking like

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Speaker 1: little breaks. So the first day I went up to

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Speaker 1: his lab and I brought my laptop and they're like,

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Speaker 1: we just they gave me an office. They were like,

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Speaker 1: we just want you to sit for eight hours. You

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Speaker 1: can take a break to us the bathroom, you'll have lunch,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to track your vital signs and

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Speaker 1: you'll do a survey throughout the day of how your

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Speaker 1: concentration is, your mood, your fatigue levels.

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Speaker 2: And it sucked like it was just the usual.

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I basically just came up here

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Speaker 1: to do what I usually do. And then I fell

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Speaker 1: asleep on the subway going home. And then the other

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Speaker 1: day that I went every half hour, his assistant, he's

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Speaker 1: assistant would tap me on the shoulder and lead me

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Speaker 1: over to this treadmill in the corner and she'd tap

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Speaker 1: in two miles per hour and I would take this

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Speaker 1: five minute stroll and.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie.

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Speaker 1: At first, I was like, well, this is annoying and

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Speaker 1: I just wrote two emails like I have so much

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Speaker 1: more I need to get done. But after, like around midday,

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Speaker 1: I started to realize I was using the time to

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Speaker 1: strategize and be smarter about the work that I did.

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Speaker 1: I also didn't need to wear the sweatshirt that I

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Speaker 1: had brought with me last time. It was freezing in

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Speaker 1: that office, but I didn't need it because I was moving.

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Speaker 1: And when they came back to me with my actual

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Speaker 1: biological results, my glucose was cut in half, my blood

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Speaker 1: pressure dropped by five points.

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Speaker 2: I rated my fatigue.

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Speaker 1: As far lower, my ability to concentrate much higher. And

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Speaker 1: this was the weird part. I actually rated my productivity

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Speaker 1: as higher. Even though I felt like I got less done,

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Speaker 1: the work that I did get done was better. I

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Speaker 1: didn't have to go back to it the next day.

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Speaker 1: I read to the end of emails and responded to

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Speaker 1: the actual question that someone was asking me as opposed

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Speaker 1: to you know when you're banging through email and you're like, yeah, yeah,

424
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Speaker 1: let me know, and they're like, I did, let you know.

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Speaker 1: It was at the end of the email, like slow down.

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Speaker 1: So it just was like it felt doable and it

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Speaker 1: felt revolutionary in the smallest, tiniest way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well isn't that isn't that right that sometimes the

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Speaker 3: most revolutionary things are actually these like tiny little things

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Speaker 3: that aren't so tiny totally when we look back at it, totally.

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Speaker 3: So this is from you just getting up for five minutes, yeah,

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Speaker 3: every everything, This.

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Speaker 2: Was every thirty minutes. So it was pretty intense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I I that was what I wanted to know.

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Speaker 2: I was like, are people actually people had to do this? Yeah, totally,

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Speaker 2: So we invited them.

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Speaker 1: They everybody did their own baseline they uh, and then

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Speaker 1: they did for two weeks.

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Speaker 2: We had them track and this was all on Columbia.

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Speaker 1: Like this was a proper like IRB scientific study, Like

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Speaker 1: we I did not touch the data. It was all anonymized.

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Speaker 1: It was like rigorous and in the end, after two weeks,

443
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: so we saw that the people who had the most

444
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: compliance were the people who stuck to it for every

445
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: two hours because that was easier, right.

446
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we did.

447
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: See across the whole thing that eighty percent of people

448
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: who decided to like commit themselves to the movement breaks

449
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 1: actually completed the full two weeks. Eighty percent actually enjoyed

450
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: taking breaks, which was fascinating. We saw fatigue levels drop

451
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 1: up to twenty eight percent. We saw and this was

452
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 1: again the surprise to me, we saw productivity rise by

453
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: four percent, so not high, but it didn't make it worse.

454
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,959
Speaker 1: And we also saw mood was just better. People were like,

455
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 1: I actually had enough energy for the four o'clock meeting.

456
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: I actually had enough energy to come home and play

457
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: with my kids. It just felt like life wasn't quite

458
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: as exhausting and tiring and.

459
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 2: Depressing.

460
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I hear that. It's so funny. I say

461
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 3: to my husband all the time. I'm like, God, I'm

462
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: so tired, so tired. He's like, you sure, not just

463
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 3: like stressed. I'm like, I just feel tired. But I

464
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 3: think there really is that correlation. It's like I'm on

465
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 3: screens all day, and if it's not this screen, it's

466
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 3: that screen, And if we're not here, then we're there.

467
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 3: And I do think it really. I was really blown

468
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 3: away by these results, and in a weird way, I

469
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: wasn't shocked, because yeah, I think that we're all feeling

470
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 3: this to some degree. The part that was crazy to

471
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 3: me was that it had this is from the book.

472
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: It had comparable physical effects to someone starting diabetes medication

473
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 3: and exercising five days a week, thirty minutes a day

474
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 3: for six months.

475
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you make of that?

476
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 3: Well?

477
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: I didn't understand why, because I said to Keith, I

478
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: was like, I don't get it, Like what can you

479
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: just like break it down for me, like what is happening?

480
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: And so I'll just go through, like let's nerd out

481
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: for a minute because it's so interesting.

482
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: I love it.

483
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: So I hate to tell you listener, I'm going to

484
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: give you an image that you will never be able

485
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: to shake. And I apologize in advance, but it's for

486
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: our own goods. So when you sit, you were actually

487
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 1: kinking your body in two places, your hips and your knees,

488
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: kind of like a garden hose. Right, So you have

489
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: a garden hose, like when water is flowing, it works great, yay,

490
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: But if you can't get the water starts to back

491
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: up right and pressure builds and at some point the

492
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: pressure has to go somewhere.

493
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 2: So the same thing is.

494
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: Happening with your blood flow in your body when you're

495
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: sitting for hours and hours on end. That means that

496
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: fresh oxygen glucose are not getting into your leg muscles,

497
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: your leg.

498
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: Muscles do an incredible job.

499
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: They when they are stimulated, they actually suck in the

500
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: oxygen and the glucose and release other chemicals push them

501
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: up to your brain. So when you're switching between like

502
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: I got to answer this email, oh I got a

503
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: text Ooh.

504
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: Should I put that on my calendar?

505
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: All that switching, you're burning through glucose and oxygen, right,

506
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: your brain needs those things.

507
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 2: Something physical is actually exactly see.

508
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: Exactly, And if you keep going for too long, you

509
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: start to build up CO two and usually the brain

510
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: is like I got you. It flushes out the CO two,

511
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: It brings in the new oxygen, the more of the

512
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: sugar to keep going. But at some point you have

513
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: to refill the system. So when you have that build

514
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: up of CO two and it doesn't get fleshed out,

515
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: that's when you get that foggy feeling.

516
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: I can't concentrate. What am I wait? What was I doing?

517
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 1: It's not familiar and it's an actual physical mechanism.

518
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 3: Random, This isn't just you are I mean, I think

519
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: that is such an interesting Thank you for dirting out

520
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 3: like that. That was a total is Morphingyah, it was

521
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 3: in total worth that nerd out. I mean one of

522
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: the things, and I don't mean to just read scary quotes.

523
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: But we can't read scary quotes because we have solutions. Yes,

524
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 3: but you know you said you estimate. An estimate you

525
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 3: have in the book is that the average American adult

526
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: now spends the equivalent of one hundred and eighty seven

527
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 3: days per year sitting. That means over half a year's sitting. Yes,

528
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: oh my.

529
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 2: God, I know.

530
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: And the average nineteen year old, it's estimated, moves as

531
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: much as the average sixty year old.

532
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 2: Wow.

533
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: And it's not because they're lazy, and it's not because

534
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: they're bad people or addicted to their screens.

535
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: This is a design issue, right.

536
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: We have built this world around sitting and looking at screens.

537
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: And so I think what we're also talking about, in

538
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: addition to biology, is we're talking about a culture that

539
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: needs to normalize basic biology that, like the body needs movement,

540
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: it needs to have breaks. We it's delightful that you

541
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 1: can have eight agents working on your behalf, but like,

542
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: as we go forth, like and need judgment and decision

543
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: making skills and deciding like is this good information is

544
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: it not?

545
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

546
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: We have to think of ourselves as like athletes, right,

547
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: Like we got to be in it for the long haul.

548
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: And how does an athlete treat their body?

549
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: They give it rest, they give it the right food,

550
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: they give it water. You know, they know the power

551
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: of working hard, but then also pulling back. And I

552
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: think we need to think about that, not just in

553
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, like soccer players or you know, airline pilots

554
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: for that matter, but like us, the information works, the

555
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: lowly information work.

556
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean especially as kind of like AI as

557
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 3: you're saying, like completely reshaped humanity and our and our

558
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 3: role in the world to some degree. I think it

559
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 3: goes to my next question. You met you just said this,

560
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: we've built our lives around screens, like this is a

561
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 3: world designed and optimized for a convenience. Now we click

562
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: a button and food comes, you know, we clok a

563
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 3: button of car coms, like everything is optimized. Silicon Valley

564
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 3: is selling a frictionless world. How do you design a

565
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: world that is just less sedentary? Are there specific things

566
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 3: you would do? Are there specific things you would say

567
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 3: to people who are listening to Actually I don't.

568
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, figure it out. So in the short term

569
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: there are things you can do. So I'm sure many

570
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: people have a standing desk. I hate to tell you that,

571
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: actually the research is in and there's been a ton

572
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: of studies and it's the movement that you need. So

573
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: standing is just another way of being sectary.

574
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 3: So if she's like a least comfortable way, honestly, I

575
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 3: would just rather sit as we're going to have, you know, yeah, totally.

576
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: But if we can say, like, okay, so keep your

577
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: standing desk if it works for you as a as

578
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: a sort of prompt to move right then, like you know,

579
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: during zoom meetings, say hi to your colleagues and then

580
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: make it okay to shut off the cameras so you

581
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: can shuffle in place or march in place, or I

582
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: as often as possible say to people, do you mind

583
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: if we actually just do an old school phone call

584
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: so I can walk and talk to you, especially if

585
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: it's not something I need like a spreadsheet in front

586
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: of me, right like if I'm checking in with a

587
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: friend or checking in with a colleague, just to see,

588
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: you know, how they're doing.

589
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: There's I love walking.

590
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: I actually I think better walking while I am really

591
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: able to listen to them. So, you know, just little

592
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: things like that or deciding this other woman said to me,

593
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: She's like, we're actually not allowed to get up from

594
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: our desk. I was like, what, So she got a

595
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: smaller water pot, which I like, that kind of doesn't

596
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: make sense, but okay, it just as a way to

597
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: be like I'm out, you know, so she could go

598
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: like the two floors to go get water and come back.

599
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: Like that's painful to me.

600
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: But I also hear from like, we had a lot

601
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: of teachers try to do this with their classes, and

602
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: they were like, the kids clearly need movement, and it

603
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: has been shown that getting movement for kids increases their comprehension,

604
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: their memory, all of those things that we need them

605
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: to be doing. So and also why not you know,

606
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: it's easy to change in your Google like change your

607
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: make it a sixty minute meeting, turn it into a

608
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: fifty five minute meeting. Right, that's a setting that bosses

609
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: can do just to say like not only like should

610
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: you have a break, but also how about you think

611
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: about what we just talked about in our meeting before

612
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: you click over to the next meeting, right, Like, these

613
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: are actually things that are beneficial not just to the worker,

614
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: but to the workplace, to productivity, to the way that

615
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: we want to live.

616
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: Feels like there needs to be training for a lot

617
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: of these corporations to help them understand like this hasn't

618
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 3: actually been an emphasis. We haven't had this a part

619
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: of the cultural conversation, and you talk a lot about that,

620
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: like how do we actually make this part of the

621
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: cultural conversation. We've now had the conversation and we can

622
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: still have it, God help us, like on children and

623
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: social media AI and impact, but we really in our

624
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 3: workplaces and our homes are not having the larger conversation

625
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 3: now on okay, these little things walking for a five minute,

626
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: how do you actually plan your days? You plan your

627
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: workplaces around these small but not insignificant changes totally, and

628
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: that can help boost productivity and the mental health of

629
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: the peep of folks. I mean, it doesn't seem like

630
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: it's part of the conversation.

631
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: And I want to add another like good news things.

632
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: So this actually did not get codified in the book

633
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: because the data had not been fully like processed, et cetera.

634
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: But so the scientific study was actually published just a

635
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: few weeks ago officially in the British Journal of Sports Medicine,

636
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: and Keith in the end found that if your main

637
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: goal is to be less anxious, to be able to

638
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: focus more, to be less tired, taking four to five

639
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: breaks a day is enough. So you're talking like instead

640
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: of sitting and you know, scrolling and while you drink

641
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: your coffee, walk to the coffee shop with the dog

642
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: in the morning.

643
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it takes five minutes.

644
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: If you are going out for lunch, like instead of

645
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: ordering in, go out and get your sandwich and bring

646
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: it back. Take a lap around like for a meeting

647
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: if you have to check in with someone, go out

648
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: to the parking lot and do a lap there. You know,

649
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: it's not like that actually is pretty doable. It just requires,

650
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: as you said, intention to say like, oh, after a

651
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: lunch every day, I take a five minute break, you know,

652
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: and I walk up the stairs to the to the

653
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: top of the building and I look at the view

654
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: and then I come back.

655
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, it can be nice, it can feel good.

656
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: And I what we really heard from people was like

657
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: it stop being like, oh I got to take a

658
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: break too.

659
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: I get to take a break right because it feels good.

660
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not asking you to like do like a

661
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: CrossFit workout here.

662
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: We're just asking you which.

663
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: Is I actually think kind of one of the more

664
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: interesting parts of like This is like shown even more

665
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 3: from a data standpoint on having long term health benefits

666
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: and productivity benefits than just going for I mean not

667
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: going to.

668
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: The gym, you say in the book is always good.

669
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is not an and or, but but really

670
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: you don't have to go do the CrossFit workout.

671
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: Which is interesting.

672
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 3: Another thing because you really, you really in the book

673
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 3: talk about our digital lives affecting our physical lives. We're

674
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: talking eye issues, hearing issues, breathing, posture, sleeping, all of it,

675
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 3: which you really cover.

676
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: I would love to talk about our eyes. Oh this

677
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: is crazy. I mean this, this is wild.

678
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: The human body is amazing it right, And as you know,

679
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: as a journalist you get to like call up the

680
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: experts and be like explain it to me, like I'm five.

681
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: It's my favorite part of the job is like calling

682
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: the best people and the best experts in the world

683
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 3: and being like, I know nothing, I get it, but

684
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: from other folks you might not.

685
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: You know, love that life.

686
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: So for people who've never heard of this listening for

687
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: the first time and you're like, that's right. So this

688
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: is a woman Maria Lu she's an optomologist in Berkeley, California,

689
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: but she's from China originally where they saw earlier than

690
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: anywhere else in the world, this uh epidemic of near

691
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: sightedness in young people. So this is, you know, you

692
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: can see really well, like a book or a screen,

693
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: but you have trouble seeing into the distance myopia. And

694
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: they think that those like the levels were just skyrocketing.

695
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 2: This was twenty thirty.

696
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: Years ago, and they think it had to do with

697
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: the cultural revolution and this idea that like academics were

698
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: really at home. If you did well in school and

699
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, got a degree, you were your parents your

700
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: family's ticket into the middle class. And so kids just

701
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, buckled down and like worked really hard. And

702
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: then they saw that all these kids were wearing glasses

703
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: earlier and earlier and having trouble seeing. So the other

704
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: thing they started doing in China way earlier than here

705
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: is actually developing techniques to turn back myopia earlier in kids.

706
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: So these are now available in the US. Or Orthoka

707
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: Lenses is one of the brands where you wear contact

708
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: lenses actually at night and it reshapes the eyeball so

709
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: that it can I know, wacky, so it can see

710
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: in the distance, end close up, and you can get

711
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: kids can get rid of their glasses. And that is

712
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: because the eyeball wants to not to anthropomorphize, but let's

713
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: anthropromorphies because it's fun. It wants to please you. If

714
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: you were like I really want to look at a

715
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: screen all day, and it's like, it's like, I got you.

716
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: I am going to change into a shape. Literally, it

717
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: changes into an egg shape so that it can focus

718
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: better on what's in front of you. It's basically saying like,

719
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: you don't need me to see far? Cool, then I won't.

720
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: So Maria is like, this is something like they're seeing

721
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: kids earlier and earlier coming in with eye issues.

722
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 2: And the thing is, you don't really want to have myopia.

723
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: It's not just annoying and like, oh so what you

724
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: wear glasses? Actually it can lead to glaucoma real like

725
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: potentially loss of eyesight later in life.

726
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: This is something you want to nip in the bud.

727
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: And if you're listening and you are like in your

728
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: late twenties and you're like, oh oops, my childhood. Actually,

729
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: the eyeball continues to grow longer than like for some

730
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: people even into their early thirties, so this is something

731
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: that can be like at least slowed down or mitigated.

732
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: So but Maria is like, the key is you have

733
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: to use your distance eyesight. By the way, I have

734
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: myopia because I'm older and it does kind of happen

735
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: to everyone. And once you are myopic and your eyes

736
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: have stopped growing, like that's kind of it. You're fully baked,

737
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: but that blurry sensation, the burning sensation, the fatigue. This

738
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: benefits also from what Maria suggests, which is like you

739
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 1: have to go outside because even if you're looking out

740
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: a window, your brain is so smart it knows that

741
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: there's like finite points of the wall. So going outside,

742
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 1: gazing into the horizon, really using that long distance eyesight.

743
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: They also really say like getting outside and getting sunlight

744
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: on your eyes is crucial. They're not entirely sure why,

745
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: Like in animals, they've seen that it releases serotonin. Maybe

746
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: it's the vitamin D. They're not entirely sure. They just

747
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: know that sunlight on young kids' eyes is vital and

748
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: it feels good for us too.

749
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, because you talk about the study and

750
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 3: this is like thirty years or you know, these people

751
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 3: looking at this like thirty years ago.

752
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 2: Now.

753
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 3: If you look at something in the book, it's that

754
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: if a young person looks at a screen for four

755
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 3: hours a day, their odds of going nearsight it can

756
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 3: increase by ninety seven percent. I'm just thinking about walking

757
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 3: down the street and seeing all these young people like

758
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 3: on phones. By the way, I sound like such an

759
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 3: old person saying you know.

760
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: It's hard to you know, like, do not sound like

761
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,959
Speaker 1: an old time but also like, but I.

762
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: Have a seventeen month old, right I have? Yet my

763
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: child's a year.

764
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 3: And a half, and so I'm thinking I'm beginning, like

765
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 3: I know, parents are like, welcome to the club, but

766
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 3: like I'm beginning to think quite a bit about screen time.

767
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: Are there you know where I mean, just knowing what

768
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 3: I know, having cover technology, I'm like, oh, Charlie, the

769
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 3: Internet does not exist. You can't be on it at all,

770
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 3: and for little.

771
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: Ones that makes total sense to me.

772
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: And I guess I feel like rather than being like

773
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: you're a terrible parent if you give your kid their

774
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: phone while they're screaming and you're at the supermarket, being like,

775
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: you know, what are you doing when they're not like,

776
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, most of the rest of the time. Are

777
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: they mostly like going outside? Are they moving their bodies?

778
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: Are you reading to them? Are you talking to them?

779
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: Those are the most important things. And if you slip

780
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: and need to put on Pepa Pig because you need

781
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: a frickin' minute, like that's fine.

782
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: Being a parent is really hard, Like what do you

783
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: say to that end?

784
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: Like what are the tangible So I read a stat

785
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: like this where I'm like, oh, young person looks at

786
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 3: a screen for four hours and they'll be near sighted.

787
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 3: The odds that they're yeah, we're all screwed. This is

788
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 3: so scary. What do you say to say like parents

789
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 3: who are looking at these stats and seeing this and

790
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: saying like, well, what what are some tangible things?

791
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: Does it go outside? Is it? You know?

792
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: I know Apple has a feature for you know, you know,

793
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 3: what are the like, what do you say to me

794
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 3: a parent who's scared?

795
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's fear is not much of a motivator, right,

796
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: because fear means that anytime you do do something, you

797
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: feel shame. You feel shame that you gave your kid

798
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: an iPad. You feel you know, I'm a bad parent

799
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: because I did this. Instead like look at how you

800
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: structure your kid's time, right, And I think it's more

801
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: about like, okay, fine, so let's talk about what you

802
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: can do with your kids, Like keep toys around the house,

803
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 1: swap them out so that they seem fresh and new

804
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: and more exciting than an iPad.

805
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: Like make movement like a game.

806
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: Make it like normal after dinner, you always go for

807
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: a walk and you look for birds. That is like

808
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do because you're looking into

809
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: the distance, you're getting air, you're moving yourself, you're doing

810
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: something with your kid, experiencing the world. Like I think,

811
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: you know, we it's nice that all these tech people

812
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: are putting their kids into Waldorf schools.

813
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 2: That's lovely, but like explain.

814
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: What that means to Yeah, it's like this, we'll be here.

815
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: It's been a trend where people who actually make the

816
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: products that we're talking about don't give them, forbid them

817
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: from their children from using them, and put them into

818
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: Waldorf schools, which are all about you know, playing with

819
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: natural elements and absolutely no screens whatsoever.

820
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 3: Which God bless Like only laughing because like there's so

821
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 3: much irony in this.

822
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: It's like you can't you get goody for you but

823
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: not for my children.

824
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it's almost like you create these products

825
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 3: that almost like are like junk food, but then you

826
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 3: don't give it to your own children.

827
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: You have a private chef for your own children who

828
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: only cooks organic macrobiotics right meals.

829
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of nauseating. To be nice, you might

830
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: have to.

831
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 3: Get into their compound when AI takes over. You might

832
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: have to talk your way into one of their bunkers.

833
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: I'll be like, listen, I can help you use the

834
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: tech you're created, right, But I think like this dichotomy

835
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 1: of like either you're like a lutt eight and you're

836
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: off screens and flip phones only, or you're a token

837
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: max er and you're all freaking in Like, Hi, I

838
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: live in the middle and I want the amazing things

839
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: that tech can give me, and I also want to

840
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: be a healthy, well adjusted human who enjoys the world. Like,

841
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: can we not figure out this sort of middle zone?

842
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: Like I've been thinking about it. Tell me if this

843
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: resonates with you as Goldilocks mode, like I'm trying, Like

844
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, go into Goldilocks mode. Don't go crazy with

845
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: the AI, Like you don't need extra laptops to run

846
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: agents as much as you're like kind of fascinated by that,

847
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: but also like, like I have teenagers, I have elderly parents.

848
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: I need to be on my phone, like you know,

849
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: going to walden Pond or doing a digital detox is

850
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: not an option. So I want to live in Goldilocks mode,

851
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: not too much, not too little.

852
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of just right. I love that.

853
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: And that's actually what I love about this book, and

854
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 3: that it isn't saying okay, just like get rid of

855
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: technology or are a shaming people for interacting with the

856
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 3: world as it was built, you know, for us, And

857
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 3: I think that's really important. I think one of the

858
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 3: things that was so shocking to me in this I

859
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: guess I keep saying that because like a lot of

860
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 3: this seems like obvious, but when it's in front of

861
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 3: you with data, wait, wait, like.

862
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 2: Is hearing loss?

863
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: Like there's the warning that a billion young people ages

864
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 3: twelve to thirty five are at risk of permanent, avoidable

865
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 3: hearing loss from unsafe listening practices. We are in a

866
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: world where you go on the subway, or if you're

867
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 3: not and you're gonna go on the subway all the time,

868
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 3: like where you walk down the street, people are listening

869
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 3: in their earbuds, they have your air pods, Like, we

870
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 3: are constantly on these things. So what did your research

871
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 3: find and what can we do?

872
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 1: So there are amazing academics doing very cool things. And

873
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: this guy, Rick Nitzel at the University of Michigan has

874
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: partnered with Apple. And I know some people are like,

875
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: what you partner with the tech company and this can't

876
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: be real, But there are actually these companies are so

877
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: vast that there are parts of the companies that are

878
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 1: doing pure research. And whether that gets you know, built

879
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: into a product or not is a whole nother conversation.

880
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: In any case, Rick has been getting thousands and thousands

881
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: of people to anonymously share their listening habits, so not

882
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: what they're listening to, but like how long are they listening,

883
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: what volume are they listening at? And then they can

884
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: also remotely give them hearing tests to see like tonight's

885
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 1: are you experiencing tonight?

886
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 5: Is?

887
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: Can you hear this tone or not? You can opt

888
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: into different levels, you can sign up right now. It's

889
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 1: fascinating stuff. And so he's actually an exposure scientist, meaning

890
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: that he's not only measuring like you know what we

891
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: artificially are putting into our ears, but generally, like the world, like,

892
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: what are we exposed to in terms of sound? The

893
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: world is getting louder, right, we are more people, there's

894
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: more traffic, all of those things. And I don't know

895
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: about you, but what do you do when you walk

896
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: by a construction site and you have your aarpods in?

897
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: You boost the volume. So what he's trying to see

898
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 1: is we don't know necessarily, like if all that listening

899
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: is affecting cognitive function some people think it is, We

900
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: don't actually know. But what we do know is that

901
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: all that listening, and it particularly at loud volumes, affects

902
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: the little tiny hairs in your ear. So if you listen,

903
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: you know when you come out of like a concert

904
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: and you're like, can't hear very well, those are the

905
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: sillia they have been. They get damaged and tired, and

906
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: here we go back to the original discussion, what do

907
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: they need? They need breaks. So if you're listening all

908
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: the time, make sure you give yourself some silence every

909
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: day to let those little hairs rest, recharge, come back.

910
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: But if you constantly bombard them with levels that are unsafe,

911
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: and you can actually go into your iPhone settings and

912
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: make sure you have like a max set. It is

913
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: possible in your settings to do a better job with that.

914
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,720
Speaker 1: But also lie down and listen to nothing five minutes.

915
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: Let your little guys in their rest and come back,

916
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: because once they are killed, that's it. You are born

917
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: with a finite amount of these guys. They don't regenerate,

918
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: and they don't you can't grow more.

919
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: I mean, why do you think that this risk gets

920
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: so little airtime compared to something like screen time mental health,

921
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 3: Because when you talk about like larger points.

922
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: It's like this actually isn't just about hearing loss.

923
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: This can contribute to loss of memory, balance, socialization, right.

924
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: I think we think of it as an old person's problem,

925
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: like hearing loss, you know, and it's a slow motion

926
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: sort of thing that's happening. It's not going to happen

927
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: to you like tomorrow.

928
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: It's a slow build.

929
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: It is a month's years of habits that add up.

930
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: And as someone who's now extremely middle aged, I don't

931
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: think I would have believed that when I was twenty five,

932
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 1: you know whatever, like okay, old you know, gen xer whatever.

933
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: But then as you get older, you're like, oh, these

934
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: long days. It's like why I was scared to write

935
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: the book. It's like I feel it in my body.

936
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: Or like my husband who is a TV reporter who's

937
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 1: been wearing an IFB, you know, one of those ear

938
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: things for years and years and years.

939
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: You can't hear well out of.

940
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: That year, and it's annoying to have a husband who

941
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: can't hear you very well. You're repeating yourself constantly, and like,

942
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: we're not elderly, you know. So I think it's just

943
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to feel something, feel urgent about a situation.

944
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 3: That is a slow moving crisis, you know, speaking of

945
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 3: a slow moving crisis. I just am reading this. I

946
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 3: was thinking, I'm just going to confess this to you

947
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 3: because I feel like if I say it out loud, I'll.

948
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 2: Be more accountable. Good, okay, I'm listening.

949
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 4: Okay.

950
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: So oftentimes my son, you know, if he gets up

951
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 3: in the middle of the night, like he's seventeen months,

952
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 3: this happens.

953
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 2: You know, we just don't sleep. But so sorry, you're

954
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 2: in it right now. Thank you for your thoughts.

955
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 3: Drying it's time and I will sometimes go, you know,

956
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 3: be with him. Then I can't get back to sleep,

957
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 3: but my husband's sitting next to me asleep, so I

958
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 3: don't know what to do.

959
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 2: You look at your phone?

960
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 3: Not only do I look at my phone. This is

961
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 3: where we go like all in I sometimes relax to

962
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 3: long and order SVU, so like, obviously there's like some

963
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: psychological issues with that, but like which put those aside?

964
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 3: So I will watch and how long will you watch?

965
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 1: Okay, this is like multiple episodes, so ill the sun comes,

966
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: this is what is happening.

967
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: So upsetting.

968
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 3: I will and I've tried to do a little better

969
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 3: on this. I can't beee what I'm saying this all lot,

970
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 3: but I will put in my air pods and I

971
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 3: will just watch it and try, you know, like curl

972
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 3: up and like pray that Charlie doesn't get up again,

973
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 3: and watch some like chartists and then watch some SVU

974
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 3: and I will have the air pods in and then

975
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: I'll fall asleep and I'll wake up and maybe one

976
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 3: will be out and like maybe like the phone is whatever, But.

977
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, how is putting you back to sleep? But

978
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, how long.

979
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 3: Did I just sit with that in my ears? Right overnight?

980
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,720
Speaker 2: Anyway? And so in reading this, I'm.

981
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 3: Like, seagull, get it together, Like, this is not something

982
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 3: you can get you is it very loud?

983
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably?

984
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So just like go into your settings, make sure

985
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: you have it set at the lowest max that there is,

986
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: so that you can't boost it.

987
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 2: And I mean give yourself a break too, like you

988
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 2: have a baby. I don't want to turn this into

989
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 2: therapy session. I think there is this sort of.

990
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: Like let's think critically about it, right, Like, I know

991
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: we all love rules.

992
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: Never do this, always do that, but like.

993
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: You're a human being and you are in a really

994
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: tough time on your life, and like sleep, if this

995
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: is working for you the most, what's the most important thing?

996
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: Is it that you don't have airpip?

997
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: No, the most important thing is that you and your

998
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: baby rest.

999
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 3: And honestly, I want Olivia and Elliott to get together.

1000
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 2: Finally, Well you know what I'm talking I can't help

1001
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: you with that. I don't know what you're.

1002
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 3: Talking about, but you're on your first that you're one

1003
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 3: hundred percent correct, and let's.

1004
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: Like think of what the alternative was that you're Like,

1005
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: I get out my laptop and I answer emails, like

1006
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: at least you're trying to like disconnect and just like

1007
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: power down a little bit. In this the way you're

1008
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: doing it is okay, maybe not ideal, but you're figuring

1009
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: out a way that's working great.

1010
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 3: You know what's interesting about the book is that it

1011
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 3: really the kindness that you just gave me, Thank you,

1012
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 3: I've been there, but that it really it does give

1013
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 3: a lot of solutions that don't feel like impossible, Like

1014
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: it sounds like a no brainer, go outside. But when

1015
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 3: you put science behind some of this and you say, actually,

1016
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 3: you don't need to do this x one oft times

1017
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 3: four breaks a day, you need to build out your day,

1018
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 3: and it actually seems really tangible in a way that

1019
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 3: isn't as scary and dystopian as what we hear oftentimes

1020
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,959
Speaker 3: on social media or just in general when we're looking

1021
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 3: at stats with no context.

1022
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: So the last one I want to get to.

1023
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: And I will just say also, like my hope is

1024
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 1: like you and I and anybody listening, that we're going

1025
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: to live for a long time, and this is something

1026
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: you can do for the rest of your life. And

1027
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: I want to be clear, like if walking is not

1028
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: an option, you can pump your arms for five minutes

1029
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: while you watch TV. That is great too. That's been

1030
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: shown to have a lot of benefits. And so this

1031
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: I just want I feel like we talk like these

1032
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 1: these outrageous goals and really like just move more. Yeah

1033
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: that feels good, and try to do it for five minutes,

1034
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: five times a day.

1035
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 3: And there's like huge benefits, Like from from what you're

1036
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 3: from all what all the research shows the connection between

1037
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 3: breath and our posture also.

1038
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 2: Very and is bringing us back to the kazoo.

1039
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 3: I know, you know we started with the kazoo and

1040
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 3: we're coming full circle. So can you walk us through

1041
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 3: what happens when we sit down and how that connects

1042
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 3: to our breathing and our mental health and maybe perhaps

1043
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 3: this kazoo that you have offered me, how this can help?

1044
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: Yes, glad to.

1045
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: So this was actually something that was brought to my

1046
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: attention years and years ago, many people's attention, by a

1047
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 1: tech executive now retired named Linda Stone. So Linda was

1048
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: just one of those people who's ahead of her time,

1049
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 1: and she wrote about something called she called it screen apnea,

1050
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 1: and this idea that she was having actually health issues

1051
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: and she would notice that whenever she was on her

1052
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: laptop she would hold her breath or she would have

1053
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: shallow breaths, and then you start thinking about it, you're like,

1054
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: oh shit, I do that too, right, Like okay, So

1055
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: when you're seated, you are sort of bent in like

1056
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: a I don't know, cashw or like boiled shrimp position right,

1057
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 1: which constricts your diaphragm. It means that you can't fully fill,

1058
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: like if you touch your mid section right now and

1059
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: you breathe in, that should open up right, And sitting

1060
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: makes it harder to do that, where it means you

1061
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: have to take more breaths in order to get the

1062
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: same amount of oxygen. More breaths actually starts to increase

1063
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: your anxiety, increases the fight or flight.

1064
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,439
Speaker 2: Sort of mode. It turns into a whole thing.

1065
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: So she did a kitchen sort of table scientific experiment

1066
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: where she invited different people of different walks of life.

1067
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: Musicians, you know.

1068
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 1: Software engineers, a pilot, all kinds of people, and she

1069
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: measured like she put them in front of the computer

1070
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: to answer their email to see how they and she

1071
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: measured their breath and their heart rate variability, which is

1072
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 1: a way of measuring stress as well. And the people

1073
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: who did the best were the musician, the dancer, the pilot,

1074
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 1: people who learned how to use their body with their tools,

1075
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: and they continued to breathe properly. That's interesting, Yeah, really fascinating.

1076
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 1: So to me, the lesson is, like you again, you

1077
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: are an information athlete.

1078
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 2: You need to.

1079
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: Breathe, getting up, taking deep breaths makes a difference.

1080
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 2: And then Linda turned me on. I mean, can you

1081
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 2: be turned on by a kazoo?

1082
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 5: No?

1083
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: I don't think you really can.

1084
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: However, this is a very sexy blue is a pretty

1085
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: sexy body electric kazoo. But they now are are sending

1086
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,919
Speaker 1: kazoos and there's a hospital in North Carolina to people

1087
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: who have had lung cancer because blowing in a kazoo

1088
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: increases your diafmatic like ability to sort of build it right,

1089
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: It builds your lung capacity, it gets more air going.

1090
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 1: So her trick is, play your freaking kazoo, laugh at yourself.

1091
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 1: That also increases your oxygenation of your brain, and just

1092
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 1: remind yourself to like, have fun and breathe. I love that,

1093
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: I know, I love that. Like it.

1094
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 3: For people we love, we could just send them kazoos.

1095
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 2: Say this is actually.

1096
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 1: Well, so at this point I really need to embarrass

1097
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: you and get you to play the kazoo.

1098
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: Oh don't worry.

1099
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 3: I was already gonna embarrass myself and say, don't worry.

1100
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 2: I'm I'm in with you. You could vibe code or

1101
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: you could play.

1102
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 3: Zoo, and then I also would love for us to

1103
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 3: try the physiological side together.

1104
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've never played a kazoos. Just just do it.

1105
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 2: You just hum, you don't blow, actually you hum.

1106
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 3: It's really this is almost as embarrassing as when like

1107
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: AI generated me with like very large breast, which was

1108
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 3: the last, the last one we did.

1109
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 2: How did I miss that one?

1110
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: It's because it comes out tomorrow. Was okay, yeah, excited

1111
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: for that.

1112
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 3: Okay, So just yankee doodle.

1113
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. It's ludicrous and you look really silly,

1114
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 2: but it's kind of fun. I like that. I know,

1115
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 2: I love it. That's one you can do with Charlie,

1116
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: the two of you. Yeah, that's amazing. You can teach

1117
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 2: him to breathe. So get up, do a little yankee doodle.

1118
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: You will be like, who cares about that nasty email

1119
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: I got?

1120
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 2: And whatever about my deadline? I feel good.

1121
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 3: I want you to be like my my safe instrument.

1122
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 3: If I'm on a really bad call, I would love

1123
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 3: to just like use the kazoo, which I can't obviously,

1124
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 3: but that's.

1125
00:54:51,200 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 4: Right, you could come on all of us.

1126
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 3: So I want to talk horns and ticks if you will,

1127
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 3: just like, I know, go with me.

1128
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 2: Going way back to misinformation, I yeah, you know.

1129
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 3: Years ago, there was a study that implied that smartphones

1130
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 3: were making millennials grow horns.

1131
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: Yes, I just remember that. How could I not.

1132
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 3: I remember sending this to like to someone and being like, yeah,

1133
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 3: now we're going to have horns?

1134
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 2: Cool? Can you fact check us?

1135
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1136
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 2: No, no, And I think this is okay.

1137
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: So this this thing was like in Australia, they've discovered that,

1138
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: you know, millennials, from hunting over their phones are now

1139
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: growing horns. What they really meant was like a couple

1140
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: people in the study that was done by people who

1141
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 1: actually were peddling an ergonomic tool, they had found that

1142
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: there were like bone spurs on their backs, like there

1143
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 1: was I don't I don't exactly know the details, but

1144
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: there are a lot of problems with the study, and

1145
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: but I think what it does really well is illustrate,

1146
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: like if you've got a sexy headline, and there's a

1147
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: and the headline is saying something that you're like, I

1148
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: kind of feel like that's possible, right, Like I'm und

1149
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like it just spreads like wildfire. But

1150
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: it is not helpful. And I think, you know, we're

1151
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: in this weird place with misinformation. It's particularly wellness or

1152
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: health misinformation where an AI is wow, supercharging this. We

1153
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: have to we're in this Science is not moving fast enough, right,

1154
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: we are not keeping up with all the things that

1155
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: are changing us. So my thinking is, let's bring people

1156
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: into the process. Let's not rely on these headlines that

1157
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: are being peddled by all kinds of people. Yeah, let's

1158
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: have bigger conversations, like let's test things ourselves and report

1159
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: back like yeah, and I'm not talking about like peptide stacks.

1160
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like base things that we all are

1161
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 1: feeling are true, but that small things that have been

1162
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 1: scientifically verified, like movement, like getting fresh air, like exercise,

1163
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: like getting in nature can make a difference.

1164
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought, I really remember that, and and I'm

1165
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 3: annoyed that it got as far as it did with

1166
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 3: all of us thinking these types of things. But you're right,

1167
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 3: it was a really sexy headline with based on like

1168
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 3: some scientific research where there was like maybe one teeny

1169
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 3: little park if you looked at it through this lens exactly.

1170
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: I always like, right now, like, do you any know

1171
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: anyone who has I mean they've been looking at their

1172
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: phone for a long time now decade since.

1173
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 3: Not that I know of, but please call ins. Yes,

1174
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 3: we need to have horns. We want to hear from.

1175
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely.

1176
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 3: So I want to talk about the TikTok tics?

1177
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, can social media really give us a physical tic?

1178
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 1: So people might remember there was this phenomenon during the

1179
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,959
Speaker 1: pandemic where it seemed like young women in particular were

1180
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: coming down with having verbal techs and it's you know,

1181
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: this has been seen before. There was like the dancing

1182
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: plague centuries people couldn't stop dancing. They literally danced themselves

1183
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: to death. Havana syndromes an other sort of thing like

1184
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: this idea of like a behavior that spreads in a

1185
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: contagious sort of way. But this was the first time

1186
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: it was documented to happen actually on social media, so

1187
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: that was the question, can this happen? But what happened

1188
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: was like they kind of came and then went as

1189
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: quickly as possible. And it's not like you or I

1190
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: could this would necessarily happen to us. When researchers went

1191
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,919
Speaker 1: back and studied you know this, the girls and young

1192
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: women who had this, they had a propensity towards anxiety

1193
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: and depression and like being in a pandemic, being stuck

1194
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: inside it. Yes, it can affect people in all kinds

1195
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 1: of ways, and they don't you know, maybe it was

1196
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,919
Speaker 1: some of each child is different, right, Maybe they wanted

1197
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: to be part of something. Maybe they were sort of

1198
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: like very cracked open. The point is there are vulnerable

1199
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: populations who you know, need extra care and like being

1200
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: stuck inside without being like regular socialization. We're still seeing

1201
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: the effects of that on teenagers today and people in

1202
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: their twenties. So yes, things can happen, but it's not

1203
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: like wildfire. Everybody's gonna have tips, like that's the crucial thing.

1204
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 3: So part of what I love to do with the

1205
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 3: show is tell people I'm interviewing someone, see if they

1206
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 3: have questions. And a lot of folks are very excited

1207
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 3: about this topic when I create this out there, which

1208
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 3: doesn't shock me because like I just feel like a

1209
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 3: biker study.

1210
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 2: We all have a body you know for now?

1211
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, has our This is from a woman named Ash

1212
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 3: Brown says, has our screen use led to more increase

1213
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 3: to more of an increase in adult ADHD diagnosis? Or

1214
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 3: is it simply increased awareness?

1215
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: Complex? Complex question? Right, and so I'll give a complex answer.

1216
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 2: Sorry.

1217
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: Great, So, first of all, multiple things are happening here.

1218
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: One is like, yes, if you are. This is research

1219
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: done by informatics researcher at U see Ervine Gloria Mark,

1220
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,959
Speaker 1: who studies attention and how we pay attention to things,

1221
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: and she has found that if you've had like a

1222
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: really busy morning, like you're switching between tasks on your

1223
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: computer for an hour, you're checking your email, you're doing

1224
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: all these things, and then the next hour is kind

1225
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 1: of like it slows down and nobody's really interrupting you,

1226
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: you will start to interrupt yourself.

1227
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 2: So huh, almost not quite half.

1228
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: Of all the interruptions we experience in a day are

1229
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: self interruptions, which is kind of hilarious but also a

1230
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: little bit depressing.

1231
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that ADHD?

1232
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 3: No?

1233
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: Right, Like that is a there is a diagnosable way

1234
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 1: of studying or of deciding whether somebody has ADHD.

1235
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 2: But it can mimic the symptoms.

1236
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: So there are some researchers I think they're in Toronto

1237
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: who are saying, you know, we have two types of diabetes, right,

1238
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: there's the kind you're born with, and then there's the

1239
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: kind that develops based on lifestyle and habits. Maybe we

1240
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: need to diagnoses for ADHD. This is not a thing,

1241
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: but they're proposing it. They're saying, maybe there's the kind that,

1242
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: like genetically, you are born with, and then there's the

1243
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 1: kind that feel it mimics the same symptoms. It feels

1244
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: like you have ADHD because you can't concentrate. So I

1245
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: think there's also a rising awareness, like people talk about

1246
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: anxiety depression ADHD more than they did when I was

1247
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: growing up.

1248
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 2: And then there's also like you know, social.

1249
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: Media, where there's a lot of self diagnosis or we

1250
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: throw things around like I'm addicted to my phone. Technically,

1251
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: according to the psychiatric experts, you are not actually addicted,

1252
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: but it mimics the symptoms and you feel that way,

1253
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: And so that's the language that we use. And so

1254
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: it's a nuanced conversation, one that has to happen between

1255
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: your doctor and to say to yourself, like these feelings

1256
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: that I'm having, They're real for sure. One of the

1257
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: best ways I think to sort of try to get

1258
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: back to equilibrium and feel good is by thinking of interroception.

1259
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 2: So interroception is.

1260
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: That conversation between the body and the brain, right, like

1261
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: you know you absent mindedly take off your jacket because

1262
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: it got hot in the room, or you know you

1263
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: need to go to the bathroom. Right. There is early

1264
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: research showing that too much time on screens it actually

1265
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: interrupts that introceptive ability. And I've felt that like I'm

1266
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: sucked into my screen. I totally lose track of time.

1267
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I look up, hours have gone by.

1268
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: My back is killing me. So what we found though

1269
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: with our study just to go to Body electric was

1270
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: that many people used a timer to remind themselves to

1271
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: take breaks, but by the end of the two week period,

1272
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: they didn't need the timer. They said, I actually don't

1273
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: need to set a timer. My body tells me when

1274
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: I need to move. So listening to what is your

1275
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: body telling you or what is that feeling that you

1276
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: have that you have to switch between screens? Yeah, that's

1277
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: a sign, right, It's it's your body saying like this

1278
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: isn't working for me? Yo, Can we literally go lie

1279
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: down for half an hour and just decompress. Yeah, that's

1280
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: a reset, an easy reset.

1281
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, not complex. I think it's interesting. I mean, that's

1282
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 3: you know, it's that's fascinating From Sarah Adler, she says,

1283
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 3: as a former spine researcher, I've been following tech next syndrome.

1284
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 3: Can you talk about rising incident rates? If this can

1285
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 3: be reversed? And other texting other than texting less? Are

1286
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 3: there advisable positions with which to text?

1287
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, your body wants to be in

1288
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: different positions. So if you're holding your body at this

1289
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: position for hours and hours, as we talked.

1290
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 2: About, like with our eyeballs, like, it will comply.

1291
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: It will get into the position that it thinks you

1292
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: basically want to be in all the time. So the

1293
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: key is just not being static. It's like if even

1294
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: if you're looking at I.

1295
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 2: Mean, I do it too. It's not easy.

1296
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: Let's acknowledge that. But I'm really working hard to go

1297
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: the opposite way with my physical therapist, which is like, Okay,

1298
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: I spend all my time like this, hunched over my devices.

1299
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: I need to spend more time going the other way

1300
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: and building back my back muscles. I think this is

1301
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: a lifelong struggle in a world built around screens. Will

1302
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: that change with VR and you know, dictation software and

1303
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: devices that talk to us?

1304
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 2: Maybe it might that it'll be interesting.

1305
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: To see, But right now, I think there's also something

1306
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: nice in a way about having like a phone that

1307
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 1: you can put down and not being ambiently surrounded by

1308
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: your text.

1309
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 2: So these are all the trade offs that we have

1310
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 2: to consider.

1311
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:56,919
Speaker 3: I want to talk a little bit about teching kids,

1312
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 3: and I know we've talked about this a bit. You

1313
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 3: have an interesting take on I want to play you

1314
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 3: a clip. We had doctor Becky on the show Ye

1315
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 3: Parenting Expert Extraordinary, and we played a parenting question for her.

1316
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 3: A parent wanted to know how to talk to her

1317
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 3: twelve year old about artificial intelligence. This is what she said,

1318
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 3: So just want your response.

1319
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 5: If we don't understand what feels good about something, we're

1320
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 5: going to always miss out with our kids about the

1321
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 5: things that draw them to that thing. And if we

1322
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 5: don't understand what's going to draw them to AI emotionally,

1323
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 5: and a lot will, then they're going to have to

1324
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 5: keep that entire part of their life separate from us

1325
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 5: and we won't hear about it. And the way I

1326
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 5: would just keep that conversation open versus closed is if

1327
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 5: I was going to close the conversation and it would

1328
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 5: feel better to a parent because it feels final. You'd say, Ohm,

1329
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 5: glad we talked about this. So don't go to chat

1330
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 5: GPT for emotional stuff. Do go to logical stuff right right?

1331
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 5: And like I tell myself, oh, I feel like really

1332
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 5: good as a parent, I just think life is a

1333
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 5: lot messier than that. Like, I just don't think at

1334
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 5: age twelve now, from twelve through whenever, every time my

1335
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 5: kid's going through something, they're gonna like, I remember that

1336
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 5: talk I out of my parent. They said, yes, this

1337
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 5: know this, So that's what I'm gonna do. That's not

1338
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 5: how our emotions work. I'd rather leave a conversation open

1339
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,919
Speaker 5: like this. Again, I'm so glad you told me that. Look,

1340
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 5: there's probably going to be a moment when something feels

1341
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 5: emotionally hard, emotionally messy, and maybe you might think about

1342
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 5: coming to me. But there might be something enticing about

1343
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 5: just talking to a computer who probably is always available,

1344
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 5: never has their own agenda, never gets upset, and always

1345
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 5: says something that's like, oh, that feels good, And I

1346
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 5: just want to tell you when that moment comes, when

1347
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 5: that feels interesting or enticing, that's actually a moment I'd

1348
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 5: love you to tell me about.

1349
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 2: I anticipate the moment's going to come.

1350
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 5: Maybe it already hash I'm not kind of ignorant to

1351
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 5: that fact. And so what I'm really doing is, in

1352
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 5: some ways, I'm opening the door for more conversations instead

1353
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 5: of kind.

1354
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 2: Of closing all those future doors. So wise, why so hard?

1355
01:06:58,720 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 3: You know?

1356
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: I have a sixteen year old, nineteen year old, and

1357
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: like those conversations need to start really early before they

1358
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: want to test out being an adult, right, I think

1359
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: those crucial conversations like age, I mean starting pretty young, eight, nine, ten,

1360
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: like that. Just laying the groundwork for that it is

1361
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: not easy.

1362
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 2: But what doctor Becky said also reminds me of advice

1363
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 2: that another researcher, Candice Augers. She's a child developmental psychologist

1364
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 2: who does a lot of research into teens and screens,

1365
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 2: and she said, like, crucially, the key thing is to say,

1366
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 2: like we can talk about this, but also they need

1367
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 2: to know you're not going to take away their device

1368
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 2: or their access that they won't be punished if they

1369
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 2: tell you about something, that they can have the conversation

1370
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 2: with you and it doesn't mean that it's forbidden. Yeah,

1371
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 2: And I think that's just such good advice. So what

1372
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 2: I think they're both saying is like, you know, I

1373
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 2: think it was Candice who told me this. Actually she was.

1374
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 2: She was totally anti.

1375
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: Fortnite and with her kids, like, she's like, we don't

1376
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 1: do shooting them up games in this household. And then

1377
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 1: the pandemic happened and all the kids were like, you know,

1378
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: on headphones and it was the only way they could

1379
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 1: socialize was on Fortnite. And her kids were like, what

1380
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: the hell, we don't We're not allowed to play. So

1381
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: she was like, let's do it. So she sat down

1382
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: with them and they played for an entire weekend and

1383
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 1: she's like, I get it.

1384
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 2: This is a social thing.

1385
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then they could also talk about like, oh

1386
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: my god, mom, we played the blah blah blah. And

1387
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: she said it just was so like before you shut

1388
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: it out, be willing to try, be willing to have

1389
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 1: the conversation, do the experiment together. I always say to

1390
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,759
Speaker 1: parents too, like blame me, Like be like this woman's

1391
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 1: this weird woman wants us to experiment with movement breaks

1392
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: like what she sounds crazy and then find out together

1393
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: and maybe it doesn't work for you, but maybe it does.

1394
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1395
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 3: I always I like so much about your that you

1396
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 3: really resist the demonize the device approach, which.

1397
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 2: I think is important.

1398
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 3: Now, there's an inevitability about this, and there are good

1399
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 3: things that do come from it and bad and we

1400
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 3: have to have space for a bit of all of it.

1401
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 3: So I don't think I really see on social media

1402
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 3: a lot about what the device is doing to your neck,

1403
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 3: your body, your breathing, your eyesight. Why is that and

1404
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 3: how can we inspire a cultural change around that?

1405
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,640
Speaker 1: I mean, my theory is this is very American in

1406
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 1: many ways, Like you have people, We're a nation of

1407
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: extremes in so many topics, Yeah, but particularly when it

1408
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:42,520
Speaker 1: comes to our bodies, right that we are like I

1409
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: kill it at the gym and then I grind it

1410
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 1: out during the day. And actually those people are referred

1411
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: to by researchers as active couch potatoes, because it's great

1412
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: that you're working out during the day, but then the

1413
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: other extreme is also not good for you. So this idea,

1414
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: like I mean, moderation sounds so boring, but as we

1415
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 1: have a philosopher pointed out to me, they're like that

1416
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 1: goes back to Aristotle, like this idea that like, you

1417
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 1: don't have to be extreme to live a good life

1418
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: to feel something, you know, And so yeah, this this

1419
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,600
Speaker 1: middle ground again, this discernment, this idea of like, I

1420
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 1: think we're so hungry.

1421
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,520
Speaker 2: To feel amazing, to max.

1422
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 1: Ourselves out, whether it's our muscles or our bank accounts,

1423
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: that we forget the smaller pleasures like walking down the

1424
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: street talking to our neighbor. Maybe you don't know their name,

1425
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 1: but that's fine, like just talk. Like the World Cup

1426
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: was so.

1427
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 2: Nice for that.

1428
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, it's the simpler pleasures that I

1429
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,680
Speaker 1: think that we're missing out on these days, and that

1430
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: can make such a huge difference.

1431
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 2: And just texture and vibrancy to our lives.

1432
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 3: Which is something I really, I really appreciate about body

1433
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 3: electric which is just this idea of how do you

1434
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 3: actually make real small changes in a very tangible way.

1435
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 2: I always like to.

1436
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 3: To kind of end with this is going to what

1437
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 3: I'm about to say just sounds so cheesy now that

1438
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 3: I'm about to say it, but I'm like, I love

1439
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 3: to end with a manifest.

1440
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 2: That is not me. I'm not a wellness person who

1441
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 2: ends with a manifest. I can go there, but I

1442
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:12,640
Speaker 2: kind of love this idea of Like.

1443
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 3: So you say, like tech isn't neutral, it changes us,

1444
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 3: and right now it feels like our bodies are collateral damage.

1445
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 3: I don't disagree with that. The next part you say is,

1446
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 3: but we can't just upgrade the operating system. It's not

1447
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 3: how humans work, but we can recalibrate them and reclaim

1448
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 3: what makes us human. Beautifully written, you must be a writer.

1449
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 2: I love that. I want to manifest it now. Paint

1450
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 2: me a picture.

1451
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 3: Of a world where we reclaim our humanity, where tech

1452
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:42,799
Speaker 3: is at its best.

1453
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:44,759
Speaker 2: We're designed for movement.

1454
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 3: Let's let's just like manifest this right here, right now.

1455
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 1: So I'm not a futurist. I feel like I live

1456
01:11:53,040 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: in the mediocre middle, which is like looking at twelve

1457
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:02,639
Speaker 1: months to twenty four months out.

1458
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 3: So let's go there, let's manifest twelve to twenty four

1459
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 3: months out.

1460
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 2: Okay, that seems reasonable to me.

1461
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 1: I would love in a year or two for people

1462
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: to be able to say to their colleagues, oh, I

1463
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 1: need a move break, and then I'd be like, oh,

1464
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll come out with you too. Not

1465
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 1: that different than a smoke break. We used to go

1466
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: outside and put poison into our lungs and that was

1467
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 1: socially acceptable. What if we were like, I need to

1468
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 1: move break cool cool. I would like for teenagers not

1469
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: to have not to think that they have to grind

1470
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: it out for hours and hours on their laptops, but

1471
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,600
Speaker 1: to be able to tell themselves that taking breaks is

1472
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: actually okay, not to look at another screen as a break,

1473
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: but to feel better in their bodies. I would like

1474
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: us to do the hard work of not just having

1475
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: bands on sixteen and unders from social media, but to

1476
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: do the things that we actually know is good for

1477
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: adult and child mental health and reduce as anxiety and depression,

1478
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 1: which is, have more teachers in schools, to pay them

1479
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: proper wages, to make sure people have healthcare.

1480
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 2: To shocking I know, I.

1481
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 1: Mention that right to actually potentially legislate tech companies where

1482
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 1: they have to get the toxicity off of their platforms

1483
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: and make it safe for everyone, not ask kids to

1484
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: send in photos of themselves to verify that they're under sixteen,

1485
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: which wait, haven't we been telling our kids not to

1486
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:34,879
Speaker 1: give away their privacy.

1487
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:37,599
Speaker 2: Yes, so there's that. I'm going all over the place.

1488
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 2: I love this.

1489
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: I want us to feel like we have agency, that

1490
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,799
Speaker 1: we want to use the tech tools and think harder

1491
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 1: about what they do best for us, how they help

1492
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 1: us figure things out, but also that we begin to

1493
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 1: trust and listen to.

1494
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 2: Our own bodies and our minds too. I'm really good.

1495
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,520
Speaker 2: I'm feeling this great, and.

1496
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 1: I would like us to just take a moment, each

1497
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: one of us every day to not just ask like

1498
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:09,680
Speaker 1: what do I want to achieve today, but like, what

1499
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: do I want to feel today? Like one emotion or

1500
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: one sensation that.

1501
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 2: We like to feel. I really like that. That's all

1502
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:16,760
Speaker 2: I've got