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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points. Hope everybody had

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Speaker 2: a great long weekend. Super excited this morning because I

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Speaker 2: have a special celebrity co host guest co host, Emma

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Speaker 2: Viggilins of The Majority Report, the One and Only, joins

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Speaker 2: us this morning.

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Speaker 4: Great to see you, my friends. Oh, great to see you, Crystal.

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Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me on.

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Speaker 2: Many things to talk through. We got the all in

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Speaker 2: crew trashing Trump's big beautiful Bill and some know detailed

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Speaker 2: provisions about what's going on with that. We've got the

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Speaker 2: Dems with some man outreach boondog element they're contemplating as

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Speaker 2: they try to try to return from the Abyss. You

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Speaker 2: just can't make this stuff up. We've got putin versus Trump.

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Speaker 2: Emotional overload is what the Russians are described, how the

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Speaker 2: Russians are describing Trump's uh latest reactions, and unfortunately, peace

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Speaker 2: looking further away in Ukraine than perhaps ever. We've got

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Speaker 2: the world potentially turning on Israel and a new just

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Speaker 2: absolutely horrific atrocities unfolding there. And then I'm going to

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Speaker 2: speak with Aaron Bustani. He wrote the book Fully Automated

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Speaker 2: Luxury Communism several years back, which I read at the

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Speaker 2: time then I just reread and rereading it. It's sort

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Speaker 2: of like a leftist, techno optimist view, but really is

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Speaker 2: conditioned on, you know, us having control over the AI

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Speaker 2: and the robots and the technology. So I'm curious to

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Speaker 2: get his thoughts he's also the founder of Navara Media,

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Speaker 2: to get his thoughts about just how long period of

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Speaker 2: time we have to completely rewrite the social contract before

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Speaker 2: AI steals all the jobs and does all the things.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that sounds great.

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Speaker 4: I'm excited to talk about the Andrew Schultz clip too,

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Speaker 4: because I have a bunch of mixed feelings about that

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Speaker 4: and just what it represents and how the Democrats need

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Speaker 4: to move forward.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, excellent, all right, Well let's get into

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Speaker 2: this stuff. Well, actually, before we do this, before we

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Speaker 2: get into the big beautiful bill, I have a disclosure

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Speaker 2: about my weekend. So put up this Trump tweet on

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Speaker 2: the screen. I apparently needed to listen to our president's advice.

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Speaker 2: Here he says, I always said golf can be a

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Speaker 2: dangerous sport. My friend being bit at Bedminster. So I

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Speaker 2: did not listen, and Emma, I did play golf over

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Speaker 2: the weekend, and much to my undying shame and humiliation,

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Speaker 2: I crashed the golf cart, ran it into a tree,

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Speaker 2: flipped it over, and broke my nose. Oh the reason

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Speaker 2: I'm disclosing this, it's because I think I did a

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Speaker 2: pretty amazing job with the makeup. To be honest, I

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Speaker 2: mean that you can't really tell, but I know there'll

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Speaker 2: be some eagle eyed person out there who will notice, like,

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Speaker 2: my nose is not quite the same shape, and my lip.

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Speaker 6: Is a little bit fat, and I've got a little cut.

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Speaker 2: Over my eye, and maybe some weird coloring going on

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Speaker 2: underneath my eyes, and I just know there would be

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Speaker 2: wild speculation about what exactly happened to my face, but

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Speaker 2: we can put up. This is what I looked like

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Speaker 2: before the makeup goes on.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, wow, how did you Okay?

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Speaker 4: So will you be able to text me some tips

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Speaker 4: off air, because I'm kind of makeup challenge and this

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Speaker 4: is a miracle work, like.

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Speaker 6: So I never can't take my uh.

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Speaker 2: One of my very good friends is like really good

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Speaker 2: at the stuff, and so she broke out the color

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Speaker 2: wheel and was like, Okay, this is exactly the shade

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Speaker 2: that you need to cover up this intense like purple

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Speaker 2: and black and red and there's some yellow going on

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Speaker 2: at this point as well, and so it really really

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Speaker 2: is courtesy of her. But in any case, if my

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Speaker 2: face looks a little bit fucked up today, it's because

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Speaker 2: I crashed a golf cart and hit a tree and

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Speaker 2: flipped it over and broke my nose.

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Speaker 4: Well, if anyone ever question your toughness, I mean, you've

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Speaker 4: made it on air despite looking like you just got

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Speaker 4: out of the ring with Rocky Balboa something like that.

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Speaker 6: It looks it looks rough.

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Speaker 2: I mean Honestly, it looks like either somebody beat my

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Speaker 2: ass or I got like a nose job. Is kind

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Speaker 2: of what it looks like. So anyway, neither of those

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Speaker 2: things are true. No one could make up as a

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Speaker 2: ridiculous story as me crashing the golf cart.

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Speaker 6: But whatever.

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Speaker 2: In any case, let's go ahead and get to the

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Speaker 2: important matters here, which is Trump's Big Beautiful Bill. So

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Speaker 2: this has passed through the House, it has not yet

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Speaker 2: passed through the Senate. We'll get in a moment to

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Speaker 2: like Ron Johnson and Ran Paul who are not terribly

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Speaker 2: happy with it. But it's kind of interesting because it

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Speaker 2: seems like with Elon kind of on the ounce, with

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Speaker 2: the administration and DOAJE being a complete failure, you're starting

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Speaker 2: to see some of these tech right voices be a

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Speaker 2: bit more critical. And this was is emblematic the All

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Speaker 2: In podcasts, which David Sacks is one of the co

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Speaker 2: hosts of. He was on there defending the Big Beautiful Bill,

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Speaker 2: but the other hosts, all three of them, were quite critical.

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Speaker 2: So let me go ahead and play for you two

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Speaker 2: different clips. The first one is chimof sounding off on

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Speaker 2: what he sees as the problems with this bill.

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Speaker 7: Who does it benefit current Courson speed Right now, this

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Speaker 7: bill is about traditional Republicans and traditional Democrats circling the

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Speaker 7: wagons and putting on a platter a set of things

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Speaker 7: that I think will be hurtful to average Americans. You're

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Speaker 7: going to see energy prices spike, You're gutting the number

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Speaker 7: of electrons that will be available for things like AI.

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Speaker 7: You're going to increase medicare prices, and the math is wrong.

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Speaker 7: So when you sensitize this thing to a four and

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Speaker 7: a half or five or five and a quarter rate,

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Speaker 7: so meaning not what the CBO used, but the real

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Speaker 7: conditions on the ground, this thing as an albatross. And

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Speaker 7: I think unfortunately for President Trump's agenda and for a

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Speaker 7: MAGA movement, this is the worst of all conditions. The

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Speaker 7: financial markets will punish this. And then the last thing

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Speaker 7: I'll say is now, to top it all off, I

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Speaker 7: think that Jerome Powell will see the writing on the wall.

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Speaker 7: Many aspects of this thing are inflationary, and if they're

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Speaker 7: not handled well by the Senate, he has a lot

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Speaker 7: of room to actually increase interest rates. So I would

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Speaker 7: just say that the Senate has an incredibly difficult job.

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Speaker 7: I think the president has an even more difficult job

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Speaker 7: about what to do right now. But the House did

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Speaker 7: nobody favors. They did not do anybody a favor.

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Speaker 2: So am I listened to this whole section of this podcast,

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Speaker 2: and even David Sachs wasn't like, oh, this is great

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Speaker 2: and it's amazing.

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Speaker 6: He was like, well, here's the pluses.

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Speaker 2: But also you have to remember, like you're working with

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Speaker 2: you know, the Democrats aren't going to do anything for you,

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Speaker 2: and you're working with this very difficult caucus, and you

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Speaker 2: know this is the best we can get, and you've

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Speaker 2: got to try to see the upside. So none of

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Speaker 2: them was like outright selling it, and let me play

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Speaker 2: you this one other one. This is I think this

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Speaker 2: is Jason Calacanis who kind of calls out the other

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Speaker 2: three co hosts and is like, you all are pretending

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Speaker 2: like it's the Republican's Falder's the Congress's fauld or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Like if Trump wanted this bill to be a different bill,

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Speaker 2: he could make it a different bill.

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Speaker 6: So let's take a listen to that.

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Speaker 1: This president action in a laterally all the time, whether

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Speaker 1: it's immigration, DEI, he has no problem and this is

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Speaker 1: what he is doing. He's endorsing this bill. He's saying

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Speaker 1: it's big, it's beautiful, he is saying this is historic.

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Speaker 1: I think this is bad leadership. I'll just say it

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Speaker 1: straight out. He was elected to balance this budget and

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Speaker 1: to have austerity. He's going to put more onto the debt.

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Speaker 1: And we sat here on this very podcast, the four

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Speaker 1: of us, and said this was the most important issue

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Speaker 1: on the world, and Trump is putting gasoline on the fire.

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Speaker 1: I think it's bad leadership. Let's Getntinue on the docket.

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Speaker 8: I suggest you look at the Constitution, because the power

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Speaker 8: of the purse rests with Congress.

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Speaker 1: He's endorsing this, He's endorsing it when it comes to

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Speaker 1: putting up a fight.

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Speaker 8: When it comes to immigration, these other areas. The president

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Speaker 8: has far more unilateral power and he's used that every

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Speaker 8: chance he gets. But when it comes to spending, you

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Speaker 8: have to get Congress on board. This is a bill

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Speaker 8: that passed with a one vote margin. I don't know

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Speaker 8: where you think the opportunity is to squeeze out more

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Speaker 8: concessions from Congress.

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Speaker 9: I don't he could speak up.

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Speaker 1: He could speak up and say do better. He's doing

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Speaker 1: the opposite. He's doing the opposite.

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Speaker 8: This bill passed by one vote margin. It was hanging

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Speaker 8: on by a thread, and if it failed, you get

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Speaker 8: basically hundreds of billions of taxing priests, which we don't

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Speaker 8: need right now. He's not even in terms of in

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Speaker 8: terms of I think he's trying.

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Speaker 2: I love how now David Sachs is very concerned about

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Speaker 2: the constitution.

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Speaker 4: Emma, Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure he is very concerned

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Speaker 4: about the Constitution. He's pretty concerned about I think that

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Speaker 4: crypto the value of his crypto wallet. But it's interesting

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Speaker 4: because Moody's is downgrading the United States credit rating in

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Speaker 4: part based on this bill, and that's not getting a

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Speaker 4: ton of coverage because I think the Republicans have benefited

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Speaker 4: from thirty to forty years of positive media coverage about

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Speaker 4: their effect on the economy.

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Speaker 5: When we know.

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Speaker 4: That the Republicans when they're in power, they explode the

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Speaker 4: debt and deficit. You can both under Bush, under Trump

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Speaker 4: last time, and it's about to happen again. And the

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Speaker 4: Great Recession happened under a Republican president. The speedier parts

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Speaker 4: of our recovery from COVID happened under a Democratic president.

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Speaker 4: And so there's concern here in part because this is

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Speaker 4: a bill that, yes, is going to completely explode the debt,

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Speaker 4: raise it by over three trillion dollars over ten years.

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Speaker 4: But we already have such a threadbare social safety net

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Speaker 4: in this country that taking a hatchet to what we

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Speaker 4: have here, which is Medicaid, is keeping so many people afloat.

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Speaker 4: Around eighty million people I think, if you include Chip,

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Speaker 4: rely on Medicaid for their coverage, and that had been

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Speaker 4: one of the more effective parts of the Affordable Care Act,

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Speaker 4: which is it took a while, but states basically adopting

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Speaker 4: the Medicaid expansion and allowing for the federal government to

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Speaker 4: subsidize healthcare for the poorest people in their state. And

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Speaker 4: one of the things that I don't think is getting

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Speaker 4: talked enough about is how this bill will decimate rural

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Speaker 4: areas of the country. Over sixty million Americans I think

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Speaker 4: maybe sixty five sixty six million are classified as having

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Speaker 4: lived in rural areas and are there is such a

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Speaker 4: dearth of hospitals, there's such scarcity around hospitals and medical

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Speaker 4: care in this country. And there was an analysis done

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Speaker 4: that shows that up to a third of rural hospitals

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Speaker 4: are now at risk of closure because of what the

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Speaker 4: Republicans are potentially going to pass. I mean, we'll see

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Speaker 4: what the Senate Doug does with it. But that analysis

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Speaker 4: said that rural hospitals in Medicaid expansion states are around

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Speaker 4: sixty percent less likely to close than the ones that

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Speaker 4: didn't expand under Medicaid. And now and half of rural

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Speaker 4: hospitals already operate on negative margins. And now if you

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Speaker 4: got the program Medicaid that's keeping them afloat, you're going

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Speaker 4: to see hospital closures all across the country, and it's

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Speaker 4: going to be in the areas that Republicans represent. And

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Speaker 4: your co host Ryan Grimm made this point with us

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Speaker 4: I guess on Friday, saying, well, why why don't the

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Speaker 4: Republicans care about this?

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Speaker 5: Was my question.

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Speaker 4: I mean, these are their own constituents, they should care

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Speaker 4: about this. But he said I sounded like Steve Bannon,

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Speaker 4: which was you know, I had mixed reactions to that

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Speaker 4: statement because that's, yeah, well that's what.

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Speaker 5: He said, right like that, that's the truth.

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Speaker 4: Apparently Bannon's been saying something similar because these these districts

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Speaker 4: are so deep red that basically Republicans because they need

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Speaker 4: to appease the demands of Donald Trump with these steep

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Speaker 4: cuts to justify uh, you know, all of the other

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Speaker 4: insane things he's proposing, including the largest military budget increase

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Speaker 4: in terms of percentage that we've seen since what World

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Speaker 4: War two eras that that they're banking on the fact

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Speaker 4: that these districts are so deep red that they can

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Speaker 4: lose people and the miserate them and still win because

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Speaker 4: of the way that our districts are drawn. And that's

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Speaker 4: deep cynicism that honestly, I think needs to be talked

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Speaker 4: about more.

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Speaker 2: And I think what Ryan was pointing to as well

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Speaker 2: is that you know, he closed a rural hospital that's

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Speaker 2: going to depress for their depress the not I mean,

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Speaker 2: obviously it's just like a loss of services, which is

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Speaker 2: important in and of itself, it's also a loss of jobs.

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Speaker 2: It's also a loss of vitality for that area, because

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Speaker 2: people won't want to live in an area that doesn't

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Speaker 2: have a hospital that's nearby if they have a choice.

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Speaker 2: You'll see a drain of you know, people who have

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Speaker 2: the ability to move. And as the Democratic Party has aligned,

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Speaker 2: you know, more with college educated voters, those are the

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Speaker 2: people who would tend to be more democratic voting, and

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Speaker 2: so counterintuitively, you can end up with those red rural

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Speaker 2: areas becoming even deeper red as a consequence of the

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Speaker 2: pain that's being inflicted on them by Republicans, which is

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Speaker 2: pretty wild when you think about it. But I've been

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Speaker 2: talking to some of my friends in Kentucky. Kentucky is

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Speaker 2: one of the states that the hardest hit in terms

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Speaker 2: of rural hospital closures, and you know, it's it's a

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Speaker 2: very dire circumstance. And I was also curious, you know

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Speaker 2: what was noteworthy to me with the all in exchange

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Speaker 2: where you had, like I said, even David Sachs wasn't

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Speaker 2: like this bill's amazing. He was like, well, it's the

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Speaker 2: best we can get, and blah blah blah. You know,

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Speaker 2: and it does do some good things, don't forget about that.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, you check the Constitution the power

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Speaker 2: of the purse, which of course none of these guys

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Speaker 2: cared about when it was Elon with the chainsaw coming

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Speaker 2: in with Doge. But it was interesting to me that

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Speaker 2: there was such, you know, pretty aggressive criticism from this podcast,

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Speaker 2: which is very emblematic of like the tech right and

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Speaker 2: the type of you know people who have shifted into

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Speaker 2: the Trump coalition, and I do feel like for them.

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Speaker 2: And you see this even a little bit with Elon

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Speaker 2: moving away from this administration, even though he's still involved

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Speaker 2: in ways that can sometimes be you know, under sold.

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Speaker 2: I do feel like there's a bit of a bloom

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Speaker 2: is off the rose with the tech right folks in

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Speaker 2: terms of what they got, and I think that probably

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Speaker 2: started with the tariff policy, which they certainly, you know,

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Speaker 2: business people not super excited about. And then now as

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Speaker 2: you see the market realities and their concerns are more

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Speaker 2: around the debt and the deficit, which at this point

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Speaker 2: I also share those concerns, just because if the world

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Speaker 2: is moving away from the dollar and the world is

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Speaker 2: moving away from buying our debt, that becomes a much

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Speaker 2: more real consideration for us all to have to care about.

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Speaker 2: But in a case, I found it sort of noteworthy

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Speaker 2: that there seemed to be a little bit more, you know,

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Speaker 2: some disappointment expressed, even you know, Jason coming out and saying, listen,

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Speaker 2: this is bad leadership, like this is on Trump.

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Speaker 4: It's a good point, and I agree with you, Crystal

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Speaker 4: that I've been citing Stephanie Kelton's work in the past.

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Speaker 4: You know, the Deficit Myth, which I think is an

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Speaker 4: important book, really important in the Obama era, right to

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Speaker 4: kind of undercut a lot of the Republican claims there.

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Speaker 4: But I actually think that the Democrats could benefit from

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Speaker 4: reclaiming the conversation around the debt and even fiscal responsibility. Yes,

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Speaker 4: if there is a budget surplus, that means that there's

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Speaker 4: less money that's circulating in the regular economy. And when

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Speaker 4: there was a budget surplus under Clinton, we did go

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Speaker 4: into a recession. There was a small recession after that,

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Speaker 4: So that's an important point to make. But we're at

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Speaker 4: pretty extreme levels here. If this bill goes through, and

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Speaker 4: when you pair it with yes, yields a long term

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Speaker 4: yields increasing and the value of the dollar going down

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Speaker 4: because of Trump's completely schizophrenic economic policy and the way

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Speaker 4: that he operates with tariffs, which changes on the daily basis,

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Speaker 4: So that creates such economic uncertainty. If you're a company

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Speaker 4: that's trying to invest in the United States and you

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Speaker 4: don't know what the tariff policy is going to be

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Speaker 4: weak to weak, you're just going to stay away because

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Speaker 4: you don't know how you can budget and how you

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Speaker 4: can invest if there's this kind of shift all the

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Speaker 4: time based on the whims of the president here, So

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Speaker 4: I think they are sensing that that this is a

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Speaker 4: bit of a problem. And the way that Democrats can,

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Speaker 4: perhaps or progressives talk about the debt and the deficit,

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Speaker 4: that isn't budget hawkery, That isn't this return to sequestration

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Speaker 4: and payg and neoliberal austerity.

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Speaker 5: Is like, you're worried about the budget.

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Speaker 4: Deficit, you know what, we could doe raise revenue, and

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Speaker 4: what's the best way to do that?

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Speaker 5: Tax the rich, raise.

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Speaker 2: And cut the pentagon. Yeah, that's the other piece of

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Speaker 2: this is I was told.

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Speaker 4: Trump was anti war, and now we're going to win

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Speaker 4: a trillion dollar budget for the Pentagon.

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Speaker 5: Give me a break here.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at the priorities of this bill,

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Speaker 2: it really is perfectly reflective. You've got a giant increase

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Speaker 2: in the you know, defense industrial complex, trillion dollar defense budget,

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Speaker 2: giant increase in the police state with massive funding for

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Speaker 2: ice and you know, private prison contractors. And then you

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Speaker 2: pair that with giant tax cut for the rich. So

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Speaker 2: you're funding the police date, you're funding the oligarchs, and

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Speaker 2: you are taking food out of the mouths of children literally,

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Speaker 2: and stripping healthcare from some eight point six million Americans

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Speaker 2: is the estimate of how many people. Between the Medicaid cuts,

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Speaker 2: some sort of technical changes to Medicare, and then some

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Speaker 2: changes to the Affordable Care Act, all told, you're talking

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Speaker 2: about eight point six million Americans who are set to

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Speaker 2: lose health insurance because of this bill. There aren't guarantees

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Speaker 2: that it's going to get through the Senate. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is a sense. It's a reconciliation bill. They only

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Speaker 2: need a bare majority, so I think they can afford

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Speaker 2: to lose three, but not four of their caucus. And

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Speaker 2: you already have a couple people who are out saying that,

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Speaker 2: you know, Rand Paul is out. We also have some

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Speaker 2: comments from Ron Johnson that seemed to indicate that he

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Speaker 2: also is not on board with this bill. They take

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Speaker 2: it from the you know, the fiscal austerity perspective controm

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Speaker 2: Can we roll these two thoughts back to back, A

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Speaker 2: six and a seven. This is Ron Johnson and Rand Paul.

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Speaker 10: President tron if I suggested that the debt is not

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Speaker 10: really top of mind of his concerns. He wants Republicans

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Speaker 10: to fall in line. He wants Republicans to pass the bill.

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Speaker 10: You told CNND quote, somebody's got to be the dad

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Speaker 10: that says, I know y'all want to go to Disney World,

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Speaker 10: but we can't afford it. I guess I'm going to

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Speaker 10: be that guy unquote. So how determined are you to

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Speaker 10: be that guy? If it actually means telling President Trump

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Speaker 10: you are going to vote against the bill, and you're

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Speaker 10: going to try to get other Republican senators to join

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Speaker 10: you unless there are major major changes.

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Speaker 11: Well, in twenty ten, I sprang on the Tea Party movement,

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Speaker 11: and as I did praise my I would shout, this

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Speaker 11: is a fight for freedom. We are mortgaging our children's future.

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Speaker 11: It's wrong, it's immoral. It has to stop. I haven't

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Speaker 11: changed my campaign promised in twenty ten and every campaign

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Speaker 11: after that, was to stop mortgaging our children's future. It's immoral,

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Speaker 11: it's wrong, and it has to stop. And so he

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Speaker 11: may not be worried about that. I am extremely worried

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Speaker 11: about that. That is my primary goal running for Congress.

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Speaker 11: This is our moment. We've witnessed an unprecedented level of

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Speaker 11: increased spending fifty eight percent since twenty nineteen, Other than

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Speaker 11: world War two. This is this is our only chance

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Speaker 11: to reset that to a reasonable pre pandemic level spending.

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Speaker 11: And again, I think you can do it. And this

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Speaker 11: spending that we would eliminate, people wouldn't even notice.

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Speaker 12: Somebody has to stand up and yell. The emperor has

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Speaker 12: no clothes and everybody's falling in lockstep on this pass

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Speaker 12: the big beautiful bill.

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Speaker 9: Don't question anything.

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Speaker 12: Well, Conservatives do need to stand up and have their

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Speaker 12: voice heard. This is a problem we've been facing for

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Speaker 12: decades now, and if we don't stand up on it,

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Speaker 12: I really fear the direction of the country.

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Speaker 6: So you've got those two.

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Speaker 2: But to be honest with you, like, I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: who the other dissenters would be in the House. You

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Speaker 2: had a few moderates who made some noise about like, oh,

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Speaker 2: maybe these Medicaid cuts are too deep, but then they

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Speaker 2: all ended up voting for it. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: think it's probably the same here, which is really a

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Speaker 2: sign of how extreme even the quote unquote moderate Republican

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Speaker 2: senators are. Like I haven't heard Susan Collins or Lisa

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Speaker 2: Murkowski or any of these type of people really objecting

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Speaker 2: to the cuts in this that would kick eight million

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Speaker 2: Americans off of healthcare. You know, the massive up It's

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Speaker 2: an insane upward transfer of wealth, like possibly the largest

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Speaker 2: upward transfer of wealth and history, and I don't really

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Speaker 2: hear a lot of concerns about that coming from any

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Speaker 2: Republican right.

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Speaker 4: And then when you compound it with the tariff policy,

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Speaker 4: which regardless of how Donald Trump reverses himself, prices are

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Speaker 4: going to go up because of the uncertainty that I

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Speaker 4: described earlier, but also because he's incentivizing what happened in

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Speaker 4: the pandemic, which I think is interesting that Johnson brought

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Speaker 4: that up, which was that there was naturally occurring inflation

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Speaker 4: because of supply chain bottlenecks because the pandemic was so

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Speaker 4: disruptive and there were work stoppages and all of that.

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Speaker 4: And then once that subsided and things got back to normal,

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Speaker 4: prices continued to go up, and there was greedflation, which

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Speaker 4: was called a left wing conspiracy at the time, not

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Speaker 4: so much anymore. Companies took home record profits and they

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Speaker 4: took advantage of the prices from the shock that was

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Speaker 4: happening to our economic system and obviously to our health system.

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Speaker 4: And I think that companies are going to do the

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Speaker 4: same exact thing with Donald Trump's tariffs. They may blame

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Speaker 4: it on tariffs, but they're going to try to extract

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Speaker 4: as much money as they can from the public.

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Speaker 5: And the pandemic is important because.

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Speaker 4: We're in this reality right now where I think people

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Speaker 4: got a taste of what government could do right where

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Speaker 4: they sent out stimulus checks. Yes both under Trump and

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Speaker 4: Trump sign those and so he gets more credit, which

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Speaker 4: Democrats could learn something from that. Don't be above marketing yourself.

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Speaker 5: It's insane.

437
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 4: Uh And and and then also under Biden, but we

438
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 4: cut child poverty in half.

439
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 5: We cut child poverty.

440
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 4: In half in the pandemic with the child tax credit,

441
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 4: and then that went away, we pause student loans, and

442
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 4: now suddenly I saw a headline over the weekend that

443
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 4: student loan payments are about to resume, and you're going

444
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 4: to see huge dips in people's credit scores because that's

445
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 4: going to go back onto what's being scored for them

446
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 4: if they have high levels of debt with their student loans.

447
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 5: And so.

448
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 4: You can understand I think this political moment without understanding

449
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 4: that there was a period of time where people saw

450
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 4: that government could literally provide them with money to help

451
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 4: them and get them out of a very insecure situation

452
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 4: during a scary time, and then to see that getting

453
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 4: yanked away and prices to continue to go up because

454
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 4: of what I described earlier. These are the conditions that

455
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 4: allow Donald Trump to get elected. And we have to

456
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 4: have a democratic party that understands that and responds like,

457
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 4: where are the Democrats saying, Hey are the rep If

458
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 4: the Republicans are concerned about the deficit and debt, raise revenue,

459
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 4: tax billionaires out of existence. You can be a nine

460
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 4: hundred and ninety nine millionaire. Good for you. Everything above

461
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: that goes back to everybody else. It provides people with healthcare,

462
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 4: It cuts child poverty, It sustains our rural hospitals. It

463
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 4: makes it so that people can go to college without

464
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 4: going into this indentured servitude situation.

465
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 5: It can be done, and that is part of problem.

466
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: And it makes it so democracy can have a chance

467
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 2: to function. I mean, this is really really the thing

468
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: that I've realized is like, democracy can't coexist with someone

469
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: with the level of wealth of Elon Musk, you know,

470
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: or Jeff Bezos or whoever you want to you know,

471
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: Bill Gates. Those two things are intention so even in

472
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: terms of the like you know, pro democracy message from

473
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 2: the Democrats. You have to bring the oligarch class to

474
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 2: heal or else you do not have a democracy.

475
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 6: They will run the show.

476
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: And you know it has become blatantly obvious in the

477
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: Trump era, undeniably obvious in the Trump two point zero era.

478
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: That that is simply the case. Last element I want

479
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: to put up on the screen here, guys, is a

480
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: five which is this chart of the change in household

481
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: income that will result because of you know, be the

482
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: result of this budget bill. That long, long green line there,

483
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 2: that's for the top point one percent. And then you

484
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: can see, you know, the wealthier you are, the more

485
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 2: dramatically you benefit from this bill. And if you are

486
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: you know, if you are in the first or second

487
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: quintile of income earners, so you know, lower income people,

488
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: you actually are going to lose out from this bill.

489
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 2: So that is the way this is stacked. To me,

490
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 2: it's the easiest messaging opportunity in the world. And I

491
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: think Republicans, I mean, I think they kind of know

492
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: that this bill is a political albatross for them, you know,

493
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 2: going back to the words of Chamoth, that it is

494
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 2: a political albatross that funding a bunch of tax cuts

495
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: for the rich at the expense of healthcare and you know,

496
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: food stamps for the poor is not really a great

497
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 2: political message, especially when you're trying to be the you know,

498
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: working class party, which is why they put a few

499
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: of these provisions. Well, we to you know, we're not

500
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: to tax on tips and tax on overtime, so that

501
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: they can use that as sort of cover for this

502
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: gigantic upward transfer of wealth, as I said before, perhaps

503
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: the largest in history.

504
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think they know that, but they're basically

505
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 4: being held hostage by Trump in the way where like

506
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 4: he has these kind of crazy theories about how tariffs

507
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 4: could be a way to eliminate the income tax altogether.

508
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 4: You hear him talk about that a little bit, and

509
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 4: so he's pretty disconnected from the legislative process. I think

510
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 4: you can also see his tariff policy as a way

511
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 4: in which he wanted to circumvent the Congress's power of

512
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 4: the purse. So he kind of wants to just like say,

513
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 4: get it done, figure it out, and I want.

514
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 2: The terrible I mean, they have to deliver this tax

515
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: cut to the rich, like they have to for their constituency.

516
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: This was like the core promise that Trump made on

517
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 2: the campaign trail, and every single Republican quote unquote moderate

518
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 2: to the most far right, they all they all are

519
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: united and wanting to give this four trillion dollar tax

520
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: cut to the rich. So you know, they are going

521
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: to make sure that gets done, come hell or high water.

522
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 5: Absolutely absolutely.

523
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 4: And the thing for this kind of you know, for

524
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 4: Republicans here is that it's much easier to break and

525
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 4: it's much easier to slash than it is to make

526
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 4: the case that we're talking about. And so unless the

527
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 4: Democrats make it an anti oligarchy message and talk about

528
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 4: how these tax increases are going to be completely directed

529
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 4: at the folks that are remiserating you and the billionaire class,

530
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 4: the Republicans are setting up, you know, a difficult situation

531
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 4: for the Democrats to build back, not to you know,

532
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 4: take us back to Biden level framing.

533
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: So interesting comments from Andrew Schultz and Charlemagne, who were

534
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: you know, talking about the state of the Democratic Party

535
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: in the state of the country at large.

536
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 6: Let's go ahead and take a listen.

537
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 2: They're reflecting also a little bit on that Bernie Sanders

538
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 2: conversation with Flegran, Which did you guys, did you watch that?

539
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 5: I'm a yeah, I did, I did.

540
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 4: I thought it was really good overall, although I would

541
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 4: say that Bernie's had some great conversations with some of

542
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 4: the people in this podcast sphere and they still go

543
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 4: right like Rogan, but we'll see.

544
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 6: I mean, well, he's only one man. What can you do? Exactly?

545
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 6: All right, let's go and take a listen to this club.

546
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 13: You know what you'r reflection is, and Bernie said it

547
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 13: on flagrant everybody's the fucking blame.

548
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 9: You're saying a democrat thing? Is that a Republican thing? Exactly?

549
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 9: This is government has failed the people.

550
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 13: We live in a capitalist society where you've got all

551
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 13: of these motherfuckers with all the wealth.

552
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 9: Elon Musk has more wealth than.

553
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 13: Fifty more than half of the bottom of America. Like,

554
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 13: come on, Like, there's no way we live in a

555
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 13: society that's claims to be the most wealthy society on

556
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 13: the planet and we can't fix homelessness. Well, in that case,

557
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 13: the Democrats pivot should be there to go more socialists.

558
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, which I'm fine with. Yes, the should that's what, Yes,

559
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 9: that's what everybody's Barnie, that's what everybody's saying, because.

560
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 13: The Republican solution to what you just described is going

561
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 13: to be capitalism, so.

562
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: They say the Democrat solutions should be to go more socialists.

563
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: What do you think, Emma, I love.

564
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 5: To hear that, obviously.

565
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 4: I think you know the that there's more of an

566
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 4: appetite for this. I know you've spoken about this a

567
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 4: lot within uh Democratic voters than I have seen since

568
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 4: I've been doing this professionally or since I've been paying

569
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 4: paying attention to politics, where there's this understanding where it's

570
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 4: like we see Donald Trump whield the executive branch in

571
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 4: a way, sometimes in ways I think are stretching the

572
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 4: boundaries of our law to put it, to put it mildly,

573
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 4: but with the desire to govern and to be aggressive

574
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 4: with his vision, however much I may disagree with many

575
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 4: parts of that vision. It's like it's highlighted the weakness

576
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: of the Democrats, which also I thin I think was

577
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 4: evident in how net and Yahoo quite clearly had his

578
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 4: finger on the pulse of how weak the Democratic Party is,

579
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 4: how he could exploit that kind of that tension there,

580
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 4: and you see it in also electoral results with the Democrats, right,

581
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 4: it's encouraging to hear that, just because I think I

582
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 4: was just having a conversation with one of my good

583
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 4: friends from from growing up who listens to you know,

584
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 4: Rogan and listens to like THEO Von and things like that,

585
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 4: and she was just talking about how Bernie Sanders makes

586
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 4: a lot of sense when she when he goes on

587
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 4: some of these shows, and I wish every Democrat could

588
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 4: be talking about healthcare like that. This person's also kind

589
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 4: of interested in RFK. And you see how like with

590
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 4: the Right having success in certain areas, like say, let's

591
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 4: take RFK Junior and Trump adopting him into his coalition,

592
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 4: for example. There's this massive anxiety in this country that

593
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 4: people have around the issue of health care. And it's

594
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 4: not because just because they're worried about getting sick. Everybody

595
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 4: in the world has that concern, but it's because medical

596
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in this country.

597
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 4: It's because you have anxiety that you're going to have

598
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 4: to pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for routine

599
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 4: visits to check if you're okay. You're going to have

600
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 4: to pay a bunch of money if your kid has

601
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 4: some sort of condition to see a specialist. There's a

602
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 4: general anxiety that people feel when they relate to their

603
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 4: health care. What RFK Junior has proposed for people is

604
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 4: a vision that is more libertarian right where they're He's

605
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 4: not in favor of a socialized health care system, but

606
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 4: he does address people's anxiety and then sells them solutions

607
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 4: that are a bit bespoke or his whole ecosystem is

608
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 4: about if you purchase certain supplements or if you do

609
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 4: this kind of action, you individually can take control of

610
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 4: your health care and it can empower you. Think that

611
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 4: that's what he sells. That's more of a libertarian view,

612
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 4: but it can.

613
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 5: It has a.

614
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 4: Narrow, narrow overlap with a leftist socialist vision that I

615
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 4: wish we could kind of absorb into what we're advocating here,

616
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 4: which is that, yes, you are right to feel anxiety

617
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 4: about your health care, and here's how we can fix

618
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 4: it by cutting out the middleman between you and your

619
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 4: health care and making it so that you have a

620
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 4: direct relationship and you have socialized government insurance, and that

621
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 4: we will guarantee healthcare for all is a right. We

622
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 4: will fund it by taxing the billionaire class and not

623
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 4: make it harder on your wallet. And those are just

624
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 4: some of the ways that this vision is so much

625
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 4: more poignant when you contrast it with the right, even

626
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 4: the right that gestureds towards things like economic populism or

627
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 4: towards empowering you over your health care. So you see

628
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 4: how like these traditional paradigms of left and right, these

629
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 4: consultants in DC on the Democratic side are missing it

630
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: and they're paid to miss it.

631
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 5: But like you can have somebody.

632
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: Coming on Andrew Schultz's podcast who May the other week

633
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 4: he said that you know, now he likes the Republicans

634
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 4: because they get laid.

635
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 5: All the time.

636
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 6: Analysis, yes, right.

637
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 5: And I have actually some other thoughts on that.

638
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 4: But like he he can have that view, but he

639
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 4: can also say the Democrats should become more socialists. Like

640
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 4: this is what the independent voter is. It's not somebody

641
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 4: who's like afraid of the trans people.

642
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: Right, it's not ideologically consistent either. I mean Schultz, from

643
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: my conversation with Bernie, I picked up from his conversation

644
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: with Bernie. Rather, I picked up that he had been

645
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: a Bernie bro He really wanted Bernie to win in

646
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and now here he is, you know, on

647
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: the right and favorable towards Trump, etcetera. And I'll tell you, Emma,

648
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: for a long time, I really resisted the whole Bernie

649
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: to Trump pipeline conversation. But at this point is is undeniable.

650
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: And you know, part of that is certainly like the

651
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: way that the bros in the Bernie coalision were smeared,

652
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: All of us were smeared by the way as like

653
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: toxic and sexist and racist and all these sorts of things.

654
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 5: You and I we just hate women.

655
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 6: Just hate women. That's what we're really known for here.

656
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 2: But you know, the whole movement was speared, but in

657
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: particular the bros were smeared, and so that's certainly part

658
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: of it. But part of it is just this sense

659
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: that you know, Trump was critical and again this is

660
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: surface level. I'm not talking about the reality of the

661
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: fact that he serves oligarchs, perhaps more than any other

662
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: Republican president in history has. But he critiqued the party,

663
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: felt like he was a change and you know, not

664
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: sort of in the mainline old school Republican party. Bernie

665
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: had that same like critique of the Democratic Party and

666
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 2: at a time when faith and institutions has been broadly broken,

667
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: Like you have to be a critic from the outside,

668
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: and that's how you can end up with someone who's

669
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: like favorable George Trump, but is also like, hey, Democrats

670
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: should try socialism. And I have to tell you, I

671
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: think the biggest challenge, Emma, that we have on the

672
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: left right now is getting people to have faith in

673
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: any sort of possibility of a collective project. You know,

674
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: That's why the libertarian appeal of like, well you can

675
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 2: work out, well, you can better yourself, Well you can

676
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: take these supplements. Sure the world is going to ship,

677
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: but here's things in your life that you can have

678
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: control over. That's why that has appeal right now. And

679
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 2: you know, it reminds me. I think it has historical

680
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: echoes with like the you know, the nineteen seventies, the

681
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: back to the Land movement where people tried the sixties

682
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 2: like collective change.

683
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 6: It didn't work out.

684
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: You know, people were getting assassinated and they're like, all right,

685
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: well forget it, we're just checking out. We're going to

686
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: go live on like a commune in Vermont and see

687
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 2: what we can individually do in our own lives. Separate

688
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,479
Speaker 2: and apart from society, and I do think that there

689
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: is a pretty healthy strain of that right now, where

690
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: it's like, I just don't you know, where a lot

691
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: of people feel that there isn't a possibility of meaningful

692
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: collective action that can better everyone's lives, and especially when

693
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: you talk about you know, these big threats that are coming,

694
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: Like you know, I think people are increasingly concerned about

695
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: technology and AI and what that's going to mean for

696
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: all of us and what it's going to mean for

697
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: our kids, et cetera. Like I feel that instinct of

698
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: like let me just let me just go live in

699
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: the woods and disconnecting close, yes, and like try to

700
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: protect me in mine or whatever.

701
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 6: Like I understand where that instinct comes from.

702
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 4: Right, And Naomi Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor had a

703
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 4: piece so that've been recommending to everybody in The Guardian

704
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 4: maybe a month ago at this point, about the rise

705
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 4: of end times fascism, and uh just.

706
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 6: Did with her about that, by the way, wonderful.

707
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 4: I want to I want to hear what you guys

708
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 4: had to say too, But just the idea that like

709
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 4: of uh, fortressing yourself right in this time period and

710
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 4: fortressing the nation, protectionism, and even the way that the

711
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 4: administration operates where we're.

712
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 5: Just gonna get ours.

713
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 4: Like Trump is maybe the most pro oligarch president in history,

714
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 4: but it's really his his or pro a billionaire, but

715
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 4: it's really his billionaires too. Like he's very focused on

716
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 4: the folks that have benefited him and is trying to

717
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 4: scratch their back.

718
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 5: To a degree.

719
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 4: But like, I do want to be clear that I think,

720
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 4: you know, when Andrew Schultz is common about how he

721
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 4: used to be a Democrat because like can I swear

722
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 4: on the show? Yeah, okay, because because they fucked or

723
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 4: like because like you know, Bill Clinton was a badass

724
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 4: or whatever, and now he's all on board with Trump.

725
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 5: He's got all the baby mamas. He's cool. I just

726
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 5: want part of me was like you think Obama would.

727
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 4: Have been able to get elected if he was like

728
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 4: bragging out how many baby mamas he had, or if

729
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 4: Hillary Clinton was like yeah.

730
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 5: I get laid like you know so I or Kamala Harris.

731
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, there was a lot of the opening

732
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 4: attack on her was that she sucked her way to

733
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 4: the top, and when I want to bring in those

734
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 4: the voters that you know, we're speaking about here, the

735
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 4: Bernie or Trump people, the folks that are sometimes unnecessarily

736
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 4: smeared as being like sexist or misogynists, but they just

737
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 4: want somebody who wants to break up the system. But

738
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 4: there is something that if we're trying to also, at

739
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 4: least from my end, the progressive left meld with Democratic voters,

740
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 4: we should acknowledge that, like the messenger also is important

741
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 4: to some of these voters, Like they can listen to

742
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 4: Bernie Sanders, but they tuned out Kamala Harris, who, like

743
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 4: if Trump had been putting forward the Abundance agenda about

744
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 4: deregulating housing and building more and more and giving x

745
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 4: amount to first time home buyers like Harris was doing,

746
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 4: which was a more centrist kind of liberal, not left

747
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 4: wing policy, I don't think any of.

748
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 5: These guys would have had a problem with it.

749
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 4: So there is that I want to recognize that because

750
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 4: I think that's important for like say, the base of

751
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 4: the Democratic Party. In many ways, these are people who

752
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 4: feel like when Republicans get into power, it's an existential

753
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 4: threat to them if they're a marginalized group, And that's

754
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 4: really important that we have to incorporate.

755
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 5: But it's also true that the.

756
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 4: Independent voter isn't just how it's being characterized the MAGA people.

757
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:21,959
Speaker 5: You know, it's tough.

758
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 4: There are the two far gones, but there are this

759
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 4: group of folks who are open to different ideologies politically

760
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 4: that they wouldn't have been, say, twenty or thirty years ago.

761
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 4: Along this very convenient spectrum for our ruling class of

762
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 4: left versus right. There are people that are listening to

763
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 4: this show that may like Trump but may also hear

764
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 4: Bernie and go, I just want somebody that's going to

765
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 4: change things for my life. And these Democrats they come

766
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 4: off like bureaucrats. They don't offer anything transformational. And the

767
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 4: key to this, I think is also when you look

768
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: at New York fourteen and AOC's district, which has a

769
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 4: lot of Latino voters, Black voters, voters that the Democrats

770
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 4: lost ground with. Because Trump gained an appeal with those

771
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 4: voters and she didn't drop off from the rest in

772
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 4: the way that the rest of the Democratic districts did

773
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 4: or other areas that have similar demographics. There were a

774
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 4: lot of Trump and AOC voters on the same ticket.

775
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so we actually interviewed some of those folks.

776
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: We did like focus group with some of those folks

777
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: to figure out and it was crazy because you know,

778
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 2: you and I, coming from an ideological lens, would say

779
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: AOC and Trump could not be further apart. They didn't

780
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: see it that way. One lady even thought that they

781
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 2: were in the same party, like they they saw a

782
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 2: commonality in I guess of like a critique of these

783
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: parties that they said, you know, don't have particular faith in.

784
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: And so I think it's it's important to understand the

785
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: way people are the lens through which they're viewing our

786
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 2: political system, even if to us we'd look at that

787
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 2: and be like, that's here speaking of AOC. Guys, put

788
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 2: jump ahead to B five because I'm sure you saw

789
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,479
Speaker 2: this poll. They did an AOC Chuck Schumer head to head.

790
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, And so overall.

791
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 2: She was kicking his butt by twenty one points fifty

792
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,959
Speaker 2: four to thirty three in New York, but specifically among

793
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: Jewish voters she was beating him by seven points here

794
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 2: forty five to thirty eight, which again goes against every

795
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: stereotype that you could possibly have of like, you know,

796
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 2: Jewish equals pro Israel equals you know, you're going to

797
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: be supporting the most Zionist candidate you can possibly imagine.

798
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 4: Exactly, and I mean honestly support for Israel, at least

799
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 4: within the Democratic Party. It's becoming very clear who the

800
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 4: supporters of Israel actually represent. And I'm not just saying

801
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 4: it's APAC, it's also billionaires and who the critics of

802
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 4: Israel also support. It's no coincidence that that a pack

803
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 4: was going after the most progressive candidates, and that it

804
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 4: was Republican money also that was going into kind of

805
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 4: pro Israel groups, uh dark money groups to fund challenges

806
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 4: against them, in part because it's not if you're a

807
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 4: critic of Israel, you're also you're more likely to stand

808
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 4: up to big money. That's what the litmus test is.

809
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 4: So you don't just have to be somebody who's a

810
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 4: rabid Zionist to basically be a supporter of APAC going

811
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 4: after these people. You have to be somebody that maybe

812
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 4: isn't interested in healthcare for all, or taxes on billionaires

813
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 4: or raising the minimum wage.

814
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 5: It's the.

815
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 4: Most pro Crypto Democrats are also the most pro Israel,

816
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 4: and I just think that's something to note it means

817
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 4: that you're you have demonstrated that you can be You're

818
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 4: for sale.

819
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 5: You're for sale. You put a for sale sign.

820
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 4: Hey, I will support the worst, one of the worst

821
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 4: crimes in the history of humanity that we're witnessing right now,

822
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 4: this genocide. I'll do it. I'll eat shit for you,

823
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 4: pay me money. All industries just calme and pour money

824
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 4: into my coffers. And that that is a huge line

825
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 4: of demarcation I think right now is y is.

826
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: Real my campaign, which is I mean, that's the other

827
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: thing that's crazy is oftentimes not even like they're like

828
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 2: personally financially benefit.

829
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 6: It's like, fund my campaign.

830
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: I will support a genocide, and I will also support massive,

831
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 2: like worldwide financial scams. If you just funnel enough money

832
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: into my pack or into my you know, campaign, or

833
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 2: fund some ads for me, it is wild. And that's

834
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: that's such a great point. Let me just go through

835
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 2: a couple more things here with you, Emily, Emma, sorry

836
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 2: having Emily as my co host on here. Your ideology

837
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 2: is a little bit different from hers, though, but apparently

838
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: similar to Steve Bannon's.

839
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 4: According to to Ryan, all right, well, I'd love to

840
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 4: have a conversation.

841
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, in any case, put a b. Two New York

842
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: Times did this triple trending counties meeting counties that shifted

843
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: right over the core of the last three presidential cycles.

844
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 2: A lot of red there. And then we can see

845
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: the dem triple trending counties, the ones that shifted blue consistently.

846
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: We got like Georgia actually doing pretty good there. I'm

847
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: not sure what that's about. It could be the demographics

848
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: of like the in migration there.

849
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 6: I'm not sure. You've got some Virginia counties.

850
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: You got a little bit sporadically, but the picture is

851
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: pretty dire. And then let's go to before guys. This

852
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 2: is this article from the New York Times about how

853
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 2: six months later, Democrats are still searching for the path forward.

854
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: And one thing that people noticed from this article is

855
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 2: that they are apparently planning a new twenty million dollar

856
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: effort aiming to reduce the erosion of democratic support among

857
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: young men, especially online. It's code named SAM short forced

858
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 2: Speaking with American Men, and promises investment to study the syntax, language,

859
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 2: and content that gains attention and virality in these spaces.

860
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 2: It recommends buying advertised in video games among other things.

861
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 4: Or you know, what might be a little more cost

862
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 4: effective would be developing the technology to create a time machine.

863
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 4: So we could go back to twenty sixteen and tell

864
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 4: all of these people so concerned about young men, maybe

865
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 4: to shut the hell up about this whole group of

866
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 4: people getting excited about Bernie Sanders and not smearing them

867
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 4: as sexists and misogynists. If they were so worried about

868
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 4: young men, perhaps that might.

869
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 5: Have been a good idea.

870
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 2: Well, And when you think about you know, Bernie's strongest

871
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: demographics young people in general, but young men in particular,

872
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: and Latinos in both of those demographic groups were really

873
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 2: smeared and dismissed as like not important by the Democratic Party.

874
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 2: If we think about the way that the twenty twenty

875
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 2: primary played out, Bernie wins in my opinion, in Iowa,

876
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 2: wins in New Hampshire, wins in Nova with this very

877
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:06,839
Speaker 2: diverse electorate, heavily Latino electorate, and we were told that

878
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 2: doesn't count, doesn't matter, not important, And then you're shocked

879
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 2: to see that these groups move away. Now, I don't

880
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: think that's the only reason, but I think that is

881
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 2: worth noting that, you know, these are demographic groups. The

882
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: two demographic groups perhaps that have moved the furthest and

883
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 2: the fastest away from the Democratic Party are precisely the

884
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 2: groups that were most smeared, undermined and dismissed, you know,

885
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,720
Speaker 2: when they were part of the Bernie Sanders coalition.

886
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's definitely it.

887
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 4: And I think the root of the disaffection is the

888
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 4: same as the support previously, which is a lack of

889
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 4: economic opportunity. And I mean that there's a lot that's

890
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 4: over said about, you know, the young man and how

891
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 4: we have to empathize with what young men are going through.

892
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 4: There's not many think pieces as much about like what

893
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 4: young women and we're going through. So I have some

894
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 4: frustrations from a feminist angle on that front, but there

895
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 4: is a point to be made and I think that's

896
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 4: why we're in this me too reactionary backlash period. And

897
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 4: you see the rise of these manosphere influencers like Andrew

898
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 4: Tate among others, or the other guy Aiden Ross the

899
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 4: Trump went on his stream and stuff and why Trump

900
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 4: was successful with this campaign of I want to you know,

901
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 4: Kamala should get in the ring with Mike Tyson and

902
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 4: whatever the case may be. Those arguments that are like

903
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 4: secondary to people's economic precarity become more salient when people

904
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 4: are experiencing that economic precarity.

905
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 6: Right.

906
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 12: But it.

907
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 4: Does, I think, show that there's this ecosystem of people

908
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 4: that are searching for meaning and control because they feel

909
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 4: like they don't have it in their lives and because

910
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 4: what young men have been told their whole life is

911
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 4: you got to be a provider, you have to be

912
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 4: a family man, and that's become increasingly impossible. In America,

913
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 4: rent prices have never been higher. We just hit a

914
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 4: record of credit card debt earlier this year. People are

915
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 4: feeling like, perhaps it's not even worth it to save,

916
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 4: or I'll take riskier bets like with cryptocurrency or gambling.

917
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 4: And you see how for young men in states that

918
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 4: have legalized sports gambling, bankruptcies and debt for them has

919
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 4: gone through the roof because people are taking riskier personal

920
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 4: bets on their own finances in future because nothing is

921
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 4: being offered to them from either party at the end

922
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 4: of the day. And this is not for me to

923
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 4: say that the Democrats are equal to the Republicans in

924
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 4: any way, no, but they are a party of institutional

925
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 4: maintenance and we are in a period that is that

926
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 4: necessitates some sort of revolutionary thinking, and Trump embodies that.

927
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 4: I think it's going to make things worse. I think

928
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 4: we're going to be in the recession, likely by the

929
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 4: end of the year. But that is the lesson, and

930
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 4: I think that that schultzon and Charlemagne hit on that

931
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 4: in that clip.

932
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it is also worth noting

933
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: that the demographic that appears to have moved the most

934
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: rapidly away from Trump is also young men. You know,

935
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: if you look at the polling and the places where

936
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 2: Trump's approval rating has fallen off, the age breakdown is

937
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,919
Speaker 2: quite significant. Where the young younger you are, the more

938
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 2: likely you are to have moved away from Donald Trump.

939
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: Huge decline and support there in terms of approval rating,

940
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 2: and young women, we know were already not too enthused

941
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 2: about Trump. So if you think about where that decline

942
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 2: likely came from, it likely did come from young men.

943
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that this is a group that

944
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: is very much continues to be up for grabs. I

945
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: think Latinos continue to be up for grabs. I think

946
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: there's a big question for Republicans. You know, we showed

947
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: those triple trending counties. Those were for presidential cycles. So

948
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 2: when Trump is not on the ballot, you know, just JD.

949
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 2: Vance exact, that's still sort of like cool, Oh he

950
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 2: gets pussy vibe? Does you know, Don Junior? Like, is

951
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:03,240
Speaker 2: there any one else who can replicate the unique pull

952
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: of Trump and Trump is?

953
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 6: I don't think so.

954
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 2: But that's not also not an argument for Democrats to

955
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: rest on their laurels, because when you look at I mean,

956
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 2: Democratic writing is just like an absolute disaster. The brand

957
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 2: is absolutely trash. They haven't figured out what they want

958
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: to stand for, how they want to stand for it

959
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 2: their own voters. I mean, this is where a huge

960
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: amount of the decline the Democratic Party approve rating comes

961
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 2: from from their own voters, who are like disgusted and

962
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: dismayed with the way leadership has failed them in Trump

963
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 2: two point zero. So, you know, I think they're even

964
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 2: as I do think the midterms are going to be

965
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 2: bad for Republicans, I think it will be difficult to

966
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: replicate the particular charismatic pull of Trump. I still think

967
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 2: there are huge concerns and you know, warning signs, really

968
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: quite dire warning signs for the Democrats if they don't

969
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 2: pitch something that ultimately, you know, makes sense to people,

970
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: and that people you like, explains the world in a

971
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 2: way that is going to move them forward. I mean,

972
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 2: this is something I know you've talked about. We've talked

973
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 2: about as well. Trump has his story. If you're a

974
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 2: young man and things aren't going well for you, it's immigrants,

975
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: it's trans people. And then I would say the other

976
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: part of that story is it's it's women, you know,

977
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 2: who are out there getting the jobs and getting the

978
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: you know, getting all the favorable treatment and keeping you

979
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: down and pressing you or nagging at you or not

980
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 2: dating you or whatever your issue is, right, and so

981
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:34,439
Speaker 2: you know that narrative is bullshit, But at least there's

982
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: like a story and a theory of the case that

983
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: as women's economic position has improved, that it's been at

984
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: the expense of men. And so that's where the Andrew

985
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 2: Tate and the religious right part of the coalition, even

986
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: though you would think they would be like dramatically at

987
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 2: odds and see Andrew Tait is like this incredible degenerate,

988
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 2: but both of them are invested in putting women back,

989
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 2: let's say, in their traditional roles. And that's where there's

990
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: you know, a profound overlap there in terms of what

991
00:51:59,080 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: results they want to see.

992
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,399
Speaker 5: I think that's like it's a bit of.

993
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 4: A more Marxist analysis of of of misogyny and racism,

994
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 4: which is that like, oftentimes those.

995
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 5: Instances flare up.

996
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 4: When the like the worker or the regular or the

997
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 4: man in the home right doesn't necessarily feel like they

998
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 4: can exert control in their economic situation. So that exacerbates

999
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 4: those kinds of of attitudes amongst regular regular people or

1000
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 4: men or whatever, and and and the liberal inclination is

1001
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 4: to blame that, And sure we should be shaming that

1002
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 4: kind of behavior, but from a political perspective, it's about

1003
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 4: getting to the heart of the matter and back to

1004
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 4: the framing of like how democrats should appeal to young

1005
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,240
Speaker 4: men there, let's pour tens of more millions of dollars

1006
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 4: into the answer that we already know, which is an

1007
00:52:55,239 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 4: economic populist, socialist vision uh for for the country. But

1008
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 4: the same consultant class is trying to get another payday

1009
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 4: to basically try to manipulate people as opposed to being

1010
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 4: honest with them. And that is also the thing that

1011
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 4: people miss about Trump, which is that the part of

1012
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 4: why he has more of a popularity than the rest

1013
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 4: of the Republican Party is because people feel he talks

1014
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 4: directly to them and he might be the weirdest guy

1015
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:28,760
Speaker 4: ever and his tweets or truths are laugh out loud.

1016
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 4: But it's the same dynamic with AOC who uses social

1017
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 4: media to communicate with people directly. That is also what

1018
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 4: cuts above things, and there's no amount of manufacturing some

1019
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 4: sort of left wing media personality that's going to replace

1020
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 4: that kind of feeling I think that people have when

1021
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 4: they hear a Democrat speaking authentically about making people's lives better,

1022
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 4: and so they're in a really bad position. And I

1023
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 4: do think overall, we bring it back to Joe Biden.

1024
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 5: The blame lies at his feet.

1025
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 4: He created a leadership vacuum within the party that is

1026
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 4: making things absolutely so much worse.

1027
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 5: He couldn't use the bully pulpit because he.

1028
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 4: Was so diminished. For specifically the last two years of

1029
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 4: his presidency, the Democrats had no message because it was

1030
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 4: all about propping up this fossil so that he can

1031
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 4: continue funding a genocide or whatever, and that has had

1032
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 4: ripple effects that I think we're still going to be

1033
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 4: feeling the consequences of for years to come.

1034
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 2: All right, let's turn to what's going on in Ukraine.

1035
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 2: We've got more sort of like Vladimir stop behavior coming

1036
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 2: from Trump. There's a horrific, you know, large scale Drodan

1037
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: missile attack from Rush. I'll get to the details of

1038
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 2: that in a moment, but first let's take a listen

1039
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 2: to a little bit of what Trump's been saying.

1040
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 11: Yeah, I'll give you an update.

1041
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 14: I'm not happy with what Putin's doing. He's killing a

1042
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 14: lot of people, and I don't know what the hell

1043
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 14: happened to Boutin. I've known him a long time, always

1044
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 14: gotten along with it. But he's sending rockets into cities

1045
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 14: and killing people, and like it at all. Okay, we're

1046
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 14: in the middle of talking and he's shooting rockets and

1047
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 14: to Kiev and other cities. I don't like it at all. Right,

1048
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 14: what do you want to do about I'm surprised. I'm

1049
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 14: very surprise. We'll see what we're gonna do. What am

1050
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 14: I gonna tell you? You're the fake news, aren't you?

1051
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 14: You're totally fake? Any other questions. I don't like what

1052
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 14: Putin is doing, not even a little bit. He's killing

1053
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 14: people and something happened to this guy, and I don't

1054
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 14: like it.

1055
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 2: Something happened to this guy, and I don't like it.

1056
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: Let's put his true social up on the screen or

1057
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 2: a similar dynamic here. But he also says some things

1058
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 2: about Zelensky. He says, I've always had a very good

1059
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 2: relationship with Vladimir Putin and Russia. Something has happened to him.

1060
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 2: He's gone absolutely crazy. He's needlessly killing a lot of people.

1061
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 2: I'm not just talking about soldiers. Missiles and drones are

1062
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: being shot into cities in Ukraine for no reason whatsoever.

1063
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: I've always said that he wants all of Ukraine, not

1064
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: just a piece of it. I'm not sure if he

1065
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 2: has always said that. I know people in his administration

1066
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 2: have definitely not been saying that, and maybe that's proving

1067
00:55:58,320 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: to be right. But if he does, it will lead

1068
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 2: to the downfall of Russia. Likewise, President Zelenski is doing

1069
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 2: his country no favors by talking the way he does.

1070
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: Everything out of his mouth causes problems. I don't like it,

1071
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,240
Speaker 2: and it better stop. This is a war that would

1072
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 2: never have started if I were present. This is Zelenski's

1073
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 2: Putince and Biden's war, not Trump's I am only helping

1074
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: to put out the big and ugly fires that have

1075
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: been started through gross incompetent, incompetence and hatred. We can

1076
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: also put up a little bit of the Russian's response

1077
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 2: to this outburst from Trump. Apparently Dimitri Peskov said, we

1078
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 2: are really grateful to the Americans and to President Trump

1079
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 2: personally for their assistance in organizing and launching this negotiations process.

1080
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 2: Of course, at the same time this very crucial moment,

1081
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 2: which is associated of course with the emotional overload of

1082
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 2: everyone absolutely and with emotional reactions. So that is their response, Emma.

1083
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 2: And you know, obviously Trump said he'd all this in

1084
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. That was always preposterous. You know, this

1085
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: will be this is a horrific situation and very difficult

1086
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 2: one ultimately to untangle, which of course he is realizing

1087
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: in real time. But the other language he's always used

1088
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 2: is that, you know, if it wasn't that Putin didn't

1089
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 2: respect Biden, and you know, that's why Biden wasn't able

1090
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: to negotiate with him, and that's why he started this

1091
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: war under Biden will Apparently Putin doesn't respect Trump either,

1092
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 2: given the you know, escalation in attacks that we've witnessed

1093
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 2: even as these negotiations are supposedly ongoing.

1094
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot there.

1095
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 4: This is perhaps the one part of the Trump administration

1096
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 4: I have some hope for, right, I mean, I there

1097
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 4: is something to be said about the fact that he

1098
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily view foreign policy and ideological terms. He views

1099
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,959
Speaker 4: it more as something that's going to flatter his ego,

1100
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 4: which is about making deals. So that's why he can

1101
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 4: be both like completely just disgustingly humiliating towards Zelenski, but

1102
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 4: he can have some sort of comment like that because

1103
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 4: he feels it's time to scold because it's a reflection

1104
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 4: on him if he's unable to get this done.

1105
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 5: So what's.

1106
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 4: Something I think we could work with with the Trump

1107
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 4: administration on this front is the fact that he is

1108
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 4: not somebody who, like Biden, is ideologically committed to a

1109
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 4: certain kind of foreign policy.

1110
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 5: Right, it's more about how he's going to get rich.

1111
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 4: But Biden had this old kind of Cold War or

1112
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 4: even post World War two view of the world building

1113
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 4: up NATO, building up August, building up alliances and not

1114
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 4: having but basically shouting out enemies and trying to isolate

1115
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 4: them and not speaking and being more diplomatic, And I

1116
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 4: think that it was a really unfortunate departure from the

1117
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 4: way that Obama conducted his foreign policy, which had a

1118
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 4: lot of problems, his escalator of drone strikes. But in

1119
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 4: the end, he did in his second term kind of

1120
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 4: put the thumb in the eye of the Israel lobby

1121
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 4: and he got that Iran deal. Over the finish line,

1122
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 4: the Biden administration didn't even attempt really to re enter

1123
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 4: into it and instead pursued the Abraham Accords. So what

1124
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 4: Trump represents, I think, is perhaps an opportunity if he's

1125
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 4: not kind of thwarted by maybe not thwarted, but if

1126
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 4: he's not influenced by the neocons that he's putting into

1127
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 4: his administration, to be somebody who approaches some of this

1128
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 4: with a bit of a more even hand. And that's

1129
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 4: not to say that Putin and Russia are not the

1130
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 4: aggressors in this instance, they illegally invaded Ukraine. But you

1131
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 4: hear certain talk I think, on like the democratic side.

1132
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 4: I heard this on MSNBC over the weekend about how

1133
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 4: you know he's got He's talking about giving up CRIMEA

1134
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 4: in the negotiations that could happen under Trump when he

1135
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 4: gives this giveaway to Putin, and it's like, there's actually

1136
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 4: no situation in which Crimea isn't likely going to be

1137
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 4: taken by the Russians officially in a negotiated peace. They've

1138
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,479
Speaker 4: held the territory since twenty fourteen. And I go back

1139
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 4: to this comment that we heard from Hillary Clinton right

1140
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,479
Speaker 4: after Russia invaded, and she's not in power, but she's

1141
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 4: emblematic of some of the way that those people make decisions,

1142
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 4: where she said, this is an opportunity to weaken Russia

1143
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 4: and Putin by basically creating this kind of as a

1144
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 4: proxy war. And that's something where I just don't think.

1145
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 4: I don't think that Trump uws it in those terms.

1146
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 4: So I think it's actually it was almost one of

1147
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 4: the more encouraging things for me to hear him kind

1148
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 4: of call out Putin this way, because it means that

1149
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 4: perhaps he's being more disciplinary on both sides, and he

1150
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 4: sees this as his way to get some Nobel Peace prize,

1151
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 4: and that's better in terms of motivation than like how

1152
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 4: many more arms can sell to Ukraine.

1153
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I mean absolutely, And the I'm confused to

1154
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 2: be honest with you with where and I think this

1155
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: is intentional on his part with like where he is

1156
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 2: in terms of what he wants to do visa of

1157
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 2: the Ukraine. You know, you had the Oval Office blow

1158
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: up situation with Zelenski. The mineral deal was supposedly off,

1159
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 2: and then the mineral deal was back on, and you

1160
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 2: know that's been signed, and that's some sort of US commitment.

1161
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 2: It's being framed as a you know, as some sort

1162
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 2: of defense protection, with the idea being that if you've

1163
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 2: got a bunch of rich American capitalists who are invested

1164
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 2: in the minerals in Ukraine, then we're only going to

1165
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 2: let Russia do so much and take so much. So

1166
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 2: you've got that, and then you have, you know, some

1167
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 2: some frustration with Zelenski expressed here in terms of you know,

1168
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 2: the things, and I think it's I think it is

1169
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: appropriate to be frustrated with Zelensky because I think Zelensky

1170
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 2: has staked down a position that is fundamentally like unrealistic.

1171
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: And you know when Trump was like, you don't have

1172
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 2: the cards, I mean he's right about that, right. Zelensky

1173
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 2: is not in a strong position here, and there has

1174
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 2: to be some acknowledgment of reality. But I think because

1175
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: he has staked out such a maximal's political position inside

1176
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 2: of Ukraine itself domestically, like it's he's sort of committed

1177
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 2: himself to a perpetually unreasonable posture.

1178
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 6: You know, you have at times with Trump.

1179
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 2: You've seen him in his administration signal and agree with

1180
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 2: the Europeans that they're going to put even more sanctions

1181
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 2: on Russia, which I don't think accomplishes ultimately anything at all.

1182
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 2: The sanctions that we did put on, which were quite overwhelming,

1183
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 2: didn't seem to accomplish anything at all. So I don't

1184
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: think that that's a particular productive direction to go in.

1185
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 2: And you know, taking Trump's bluster and rhetoric about how

1186
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 2: he's going to solve the thing in twenty four hours.

1187
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 2: Putting that aside, I'm sympathetic to the fact that at

1188
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: this point it's not an easy situation to unwind. You know,

1189
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 2: Putin has a very little incentive to stop what he's doing.

1190
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 2: He's sort of, you know, got the upper hand, he's

1191
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 2: got more man in power, he's got more industrial base,

1192
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 2: he's got broadly the support of his people as far

1193
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 2: as we can tell. And you know, so there isn't

1194
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 2: a lot of motivation for him to really take his

1195
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 2: foot off off the gas. And for Zelensky, he's in,

1196
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 2: like I said, this sort of locked in domestic political position.

1197
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 2: And then at times you also see Jade Vance and Trump,

1198
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: and Trump sort of signals at this in these comments

1199
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 2: as well, acting like, yeah, maybe we'll just walk away

1200
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 2: and good luck to you, and that will end in effectively,

1201
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 2: you know, a Ukrainian failed state and Russia taking more territory,

1202
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: et cetera. So you know, I don't know that there

1203
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 2: is a great solution here at this point. However this

1204
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 2: conflict ends, it's going to end in a place that

1205
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 2: is you know, ugly and horrible for a lot of people.

1206
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 6: But to your point, like the war needs.

1207
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 2: To end because it's terrific, and can put this the

1208
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 2: details of this drone attack and missile at taxi for

1209
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 2: up on the screen. Russia defies Trump with largest everaderna

1210
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 2: of missile attack on Ukraine. Kiev says more than three

1211
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty explosive drones targeted its cities overnight. You know,

1212
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 2: this is a was a follow on from another drone

1213
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 2: of missile strike that Trump was referring to there as well.

1214
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 2: So the horrors here are grave, not to mention all

1215
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 2: of the Ukrainian men and Russian men to who have

1216
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 2: been fed into this meat grinder. And thus far, even

1217
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 2: though the rhetoric has been different from the Trump administration,

1218
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 2: the policy has been pretty It's been pretty much a

1219
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 2: continuation of the Biden policy as far as what we've

1220
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 2: seen so far, you know, back in the Ukrainian shipping weapons,

1221
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 2: allowing these longer range drone strikes that are incredibly provocative

1222
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 2: viz a VI Russia. So we haven't actually seen a

1223
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 2: policy shift, even though we do see a rhetorical shift

1224
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 2: and then the effort to actually bring some sort of negotiations,

1225
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 2: which is appreciated. But if you can't get one of

1226
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 2: these two parties to move off their current position, then

1227
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 2: you're not going to end up with, you know, the

1228
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 2: piece that and the Nobel Peace Prize that he may

1229
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 2: be seeking.

1230
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 4: Right, And I think that that's a good point, and

1231
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 4: maybe I'm not going to produce the show for you,

1232
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 4: but it's a good way to talk about Israel policy too, right,

1233
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,439
Speaker 4: where some of these breaks that we're talking about are

1234
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 4: really welcome. But does Donald Trump have the fortitude or

1235
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 4: vision to actually implement something that would represent a real

1236
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 4: foreign policy shift or is like, are a lot of

1237
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 4: these kind of gestures more aesthetic because it's about flattering

1238
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 4: his ego about I can put an end to this,

1239
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 4: I can be the one to do X, Y and Z,

1240
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 4: or in the case of Middle East policy. Yeah, he's

1241
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 4: going and meeting with the Qatari's and he went to

1242
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 4: the Middle East and didn't stop in Jerusalem. But are

1243
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 4: these breaks from what is traditionally done being matched with

1244
01:05:56,680 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 4: substantive changes to policy? And it does doesn't seem to

1245
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 4: be the case. We're still sending, as you say, weapons

1246
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 4: to both Ukraine and Israel, and of course in terms

1247
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 4: of like abject immorality the Israel sending it to the

1248
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 4: aggressor in Israel committing a genocide just continues to be

1249
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 4: something that I think every American should be thinking about

1250
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 4: every morning, what our tax dollars are going to. But

1251
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 4: it's we like to see a shake up to the

1252
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 4: system in this sense, right, But if it's not paired

1253
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 4: with some sort of like carrot and stick approach to

1254
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 4: the Israelis to cutting off weapons, to making sure that

1255
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 4: they're not able to conduct these military operations anymore, and

1256
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 4: it's just about Donald Trump getting goodies and creating business

1257
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 4: deals and crypto data centers for his son, and you know,

1258
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 4: weapons deals for Boeing with the with the Saudia's or

1259
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 4: with the UAE or whatever the case may be. Then

1260
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 4: there's no substance there, and then we're kind of just

1261
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 4: back where we start started, especially if a new administration

1262
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 4: comes into place,