Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Chris Harrison coming to you from the home
Speaker 1: office in Austin, Texas. Today's show is I'm just letting
Speaker 1: you know off the bat, it's going to be emotional, meaningful,
Speaker 1: and powerful. If you don't know who Kevin Hines is,
Speaker 1: he's my guest today. And if you don't know, it's okay,
Speaker 1: because honestly, I had no idea I was out in California.
Speaker 1: I love to host events. I'm hosting one this weekend
Speaker 1: for Sergio Garcia, the golfer, and his wife Angela, for
Speaker 1: four kids. It's one of the things I feel like
Speaker 1: I can do with my time and my talent. I
Speaker 1: can't sing, I can't dance, but I love to host events.
Speaker 1: I do auctions. I do it all because I feel
Speaker 1: like that's one way that Elz and I can really
Speaker 1: give back. And so I host a lot of events
Speaker 1: throughout the year. And there's one that I have hosted
Speaker 1: for several years now out in Monterey, California. It's for
Speaker 1: the AIM. It's the AIM Gal. It's for the AIM Foundation,
Speaker 1: which is for youth mental health suicide prevention. Something that's
Speaker 1: kind of near and dear to Elsie and I's heart.
Speaker 1: There's another big foundation that we always support, the Grant
Speaker 1: Haliburton Foundation out of Dallas, Texas, which was started by
Speaker 1: a family that was really close to my family. But
Speaker 1: the am Gala I met through friends, and I really
Speaker 1: love what they do, and so I started supporting them
Speaker 1: and hosting their galap So this year, Elsie and I
Speaker 1: went up to host and I was going through the
Speaker 1: run of show and I noticed I was introducing the
Speaker 1: keynote speaker and it was Kevin Hines. And I'll be honest,
Speaker 1: I was completely ignorant. I did not know Kevin. I
Speaker 1: didn't know his story, and I started googling and doing
Speaker 1: some research because I wanted to be a little educated
Speaker 1: on who I was introducing, and my jaw dropped. I
Speaker 1: sat there for an hour reading Kevin's story and the
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of it is this. Kevin Hines attempted
Speaker 1: to take his life back in nineteen ninety four by
Speaker 1: jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, but he lived, and
Speaker 1: he lived to tell the story, and that is the
Speaker 1: impetus for everything that has happened since. He is now
Speaker 1: an award winning author, speaker. He speaks around the world
Speaker 1: on suicide, suicide prevention, on hope, on the ripple effect
Speaker 1: of suicide, and just mental health in general. Guys, when
Speaker 1: I heard Kevin talk, first of all, you could have
Speaker 1: heard a pen drop in the room. He had everybody
Speaker 1: spellbound and tears are in her eyes. He is the
Speaker 1: most wonderful human being. To say nothing of what a
Speaker 1: great speaker he is, just what an amazing human I
Speaker 1: was so moved when he walked off the stage. I
Speaker 1: have to ask him about this because I felt well. Later,
Speaker 1: I thought, did I just hug him? I didn't know
Speaker 1: what to say, and I literally just grabbed him and
Speaker 1: I gave him a hug, and we just hugged each
Speaker 1: other for like ten or fifteen seconds, and I just said,
Speaker 1: I love you, I support you, I'm your friend. I've
Speaker 1: never met you, but I am now one of those
Speaker 1: people that are in your corner and will always be
Speaker 1: there for you. Kevin still battles with so much, including depression,
Speaker 1: including suicidal thoughts, how he lives with it on the daily,
Speaker 1: how he's recovered, and how he speaks about this event
Speaker 1: in his life. It just moved me so much that
Speaker 1: the first thing I said Kevin, you have to come
Speaker 1: on this podcast. We have to have this discussion. It's
Speaker 1: an important topic for me and I don't know if
Speaker 1: there is a human being in the world that is
Speaker 1: more equipped to talk about today's subject. And I just
Speaker 1: wanted to give you a heads up of what we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about. We're going to talk about his
Speaker 1: suicide attempt. We're going to talk talk about living through it,
Speaker 1: the pain, all these thoughts. So I just wanted to
Speaker 1: give you, you know, if that is activating for you,
Speaker 1: I just want to give you fair warning. But I
Speaker 1: do think this is going to be positive. I want
Speaker 1: you to know and we're what we can learn from this.
Speaker 1: And so I hope that if you know someone who's
Speaker 1: having these thoughts or struggling with this, I hope this
Speaker 1: is good for them. I hope it's cathartic and it's helpful.
Speaker 1: So today's guest, maybe the most important guest we have
Speaker 1: ever had on this podcast, my now very good friend
Speaker 1: Kevin Hines.
Speaker 2: Hello, how are you, Chris.
Speaker 1: As I just said to all the listeners, my now
Speaker 1: very good friend Kevin Hines, Yes, very good friend.
Speaker 2: Absolutely you bet.
Speaker 1: Kevin. Do you remember so the night you spoke in California.
Speaker 1: You walked off the stage. I didn't know you. We
Speaker 1: had never met, and I'll be honest, I was ignorant.
Speaker 1: I didn't know your story and you just I'm sure
Speaker 1: like most people, my jaw hit the floor. There were
Speaker 1: tears in my eyes, if you remember. But you walked
Speaker 1: off the stage and I just gave you a hug.
Speaker 2: I just remember. It was bess hugs I've ever had
Speaker 2: all year.
Speaker 1: I know it lasted awkwardly, a little too long, but
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, I said, Chris.
Speaker 2: Chris, wait a minute, because twenty three second hugs release
Speaker 2: oxytocin in the brain that make it feel better.
Speaker 1: I think we hit twenty three seconds.
Speaker 2: I think we did it.
Speaker 1: I think we did. I just said, I just said, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I love you, I am your friend. I got your back,
Speaker 1: and you said the same thing to me, and I
Speaker 1: so I love you for it. And I thought, man,
Speaker 1: if you would just please come on this podcast and
Speaker 1: let's talk about your message and what you have been through,
Speaker 1: because as I just spoke to the listeners, I said,
Speaker 1: you know, there was nobody more equipped on the face
Speaker 1: of the earth than you to talk about depression, suicide, prevention,
Speaker 1: how we can survive each day and get through these moments.
Speaker 1: So thank you for being here, my friend, Chris.
Speaker 2: The thanks is all mine. You're giving me a wonderful
Speaker 2: opportunity to share a message that means the world to
Speaker 2: me that we hope helps a lot of people. So
Speaker 2: what a gift.
Speaker 1: And we will talk about the documentary suicide the Ripple
Speaker 1: Effect that is out and I will we'll get to that,
Speaker 1: but let's go back. And I know this is a
Speaker 1: story you've told many times. And by the way, for
Speaker 1: everyone listening, I've talked to Kevin. It's okay. He will
Speaker 1: talk about this. You know, I'm not prying when we
Speaker 1: talk about this event. Nothing is off limits with Kevin.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: That's one thing I love about you is you are
Speaker 1: an open book, which is so hard to find in
Speaker 1: this area because usually in these situations, we want to
Speaker 1: shy away from it, right, we want to hide these stories.
Speaker 1: But I love you for being so open for us.
Speaker 1: So you jumped off the Golden Gate bridge. Take me
Speaker 1: to that day. What I was also curious about something
Speaker 1: you didn't talk about that day was driving there, going
Speaker 1: to the bridge.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, first of all, I don't drive.
Speaker 2: I have epilepsy, so I can't. I'm not legally allowed
Speaker 2: to drive, not to mention, I'm horrible at it, so it's.
Speaker 1: Probably good self awareness.
Speaker 2: It's self awareness. I took a bus first, I take
Speaker 2: the first. I took a Munie train to the bus,
Speaker 2: and on that Uni train, I'll never forget it. I
Speaker 2: was dealing with such depths of self loathly and self
Speaker 2: hatred that came from severe paranoia, major forms of depression,
Speaker 2: alongside bipolar disorder. On the low side, paranoid delusions where
Speaker 2: I would believe that people are out to get me,
Speaker 2: trying to hurt me, trying to kill me. And I
Speaker 2: was in such a dark place, hearing voices in my head,
Speaker 2: auditory hallucinations, having visual hallucinations, seeing and hearing things nobody
Speaker 2: else can see here, believing them to be as real
Speaker 2: as the hands in front of my face. And those
Speaker 2: voices were telling me I had to take my life
Speaker 2: and that I had no choice, that it was in
Speaker 2: fact inevitable. Those are the words the voices used. And
Speaker 2: if you've never Chris, if you've never heard auditory hallucinations,
Speaker 2: imagine your headphones are on, your earbuds are in and
Speaker 2: instead of that podcast that like this or that music
Speaker 2: or that or that book. You're hearing a person or
Speaker 2: people's voices in your head screaming at you things you
Speaker 2: don't want to do, and they're telling you you have
Speaker 2: no other choice.
Speaker 1: And it's that clear, and it's that real in your head,
Speaker 1: because I'll be honest, I have never felt that or
Speaker 1: heard something like that, and so it's that real and
Speaker 1: you're in your head.
Speaker 2: Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people around the
Speaker 2: world live with auditory hallucinations something both autit turned visual
Speaker 2: like me, and you know, Chris, they can be nice.
Speaker 2: I've met people that say their their voices tell them
Speaker 2: wake up, brush your teeth, take your hour, you know,
Speaker 2: stuff like that. But mine were very vicious, very mean,
Speaker 2: and hated me and and they told me how to die.
Speaker 2: So I get on that medi train, the mini train
Speaker 2: gets to the next bus stop, and I vividly remember going,
Speaker 2: I need I need a last meal. I need a
Speaker 2: last meal, because why not? And so I walked into
Speaker 2: a Walgreens, the Walgreens I frequented many many years where
Speaker 2: I got my medications that I wasn't taking at the
Speaker 2: time properly, right of course, uh and and and I
Speaker 2: and I walk in there and I five finger discounted
Speaker 2: a starbus and the skittles I stole it. I don't worry,
Speaker 2: don't report me to the police. I since returned the
Speaker 2: money and paid them, so we don't need to do that.
Speaker 2: But but I did. This was my favorite two candies,
Speaker 2: and I and I took them and I went. I
Speaker 2: got on the next bus. I sat in the very
Speaker 2: back row, in the middle seat, looking out upon everybody
Speaker 2: who board it. And basically, over the course of the
Speaker 2: time from that bus stop to the Golden gate Bridge
Speaker 2: parking lot, about one hundred and so people boarded the bus.
Speaker 2: And I'm the very last person in the middle, looking
Speaker 2: at everybody, and I begin to cry softly, moderately, waterfalls
Speaker 2: then flowing from my eyes. And then Chris, I began
Speaker 2: screaming aloud at the voices I was hearing in my head.
Speaker 2: Leave me alone. I don't want to die. Why do
Speaker 2: you hate me so much? What did I ever do
Speaker 2: to you? I'm a good person. And now, Chris, when
Speaker 2: one hundred and so people are looking down the barrel
Speaker 2: of the bus at me but saying absolutely nothing, except
Speaker 2: for one man, the man to my left says to
Speaker 2: the fella next to him, while pointing at me with
Speaker 2: his thumb while smiling and laughing at my pain, what
Speaker 2: the hell's wrong with that kid? And in that moment, Chris,
Speaker 2: I think, what was the most alone I've ever felt
Speaker 2: in my life?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: The problem, Chris is that I was surrounded at home
Speaker 2: by a sea of people who love me dearly, and
Speaker 2: in that moment of Sue's settle crisis, I could not
Speaker 2: recognize that I could only see, feel, here, touch and
Speaker 2: know immeasurable pain. And at this point in the conversation,
Speaker 2: I always ask people, and I'll ask you, Chris. I
Speaker 2: know it's your podcast and you're supposed to ask the questions,
Speaker 2: but I want to ask you one question. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: this is important for the audience to understand. Who don't
Speaker 2: get suicidal ideation? Chris, what is the one thing you
Speaker 2: want to happen when you find yourself an excruciating physical pain?
Speaker 2: What do you want that pain to do?
Speaker 1: Go away? Go away as fast as possible.
Speaker 2: Stop, go away, and or leave. That's physical pain.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My argument over the last twenty three twenty four years
Speaker 2: of doing this work in brain and mental health and
Speaker 2: suicide prevention is that brain pain. Mental pain is three
Speaker 2: hundred thousand times worse than any physical pain we could
Speaker 2: ever experience. Because the people around us tend to invalidate
Speaker 2: it because they cannot see it, it must not be real,
Speaker 2: and that needs to change. Now back to the story hand.
Speaker 2: There I was on the bridge, devastated beyond measure and
Speaker 2: hearing the voices while looking at the people ignoring me,
Speaker 2: while in the greatest, single, greatest painful moment in my life,
Speaker 2: believing I had to take my life and believing I
Speaker 2: had no other option. And the bus, of course, gets
Speaker 2: to the Golden Gate Bridge parking lot, and one hundred
Speaker 2: people deboard right there with their Fannie packs and their
Speaker 2: foreign accents and their cameras that weren't yet phones.
Speaker 1: Right a bunch of tourists, people going to see the bridge.
Speaker 2: And literally, Chris, there was nobody left on the bus
Speaker 2: but me and the driver, and I am just hoping
Speaker 2: beyond all hope and wishing beyond wishes and praying beyond
Speaker 2: all prayers that this bus driver will see me and
Speaker 2: see my pain. Not that it's his responsibility, but when
Speaker 2: you think about the larger issue of suicide and suitsaid preension.
Speaker 2: It's all of our responsibilities look out for our fellow
Speaker 2: human being and those that may be in danger, even
Speaker 2: of themselves. I think, because you know, we live in
Speaker 2: a tough world, especially these days, and people are hurting
Speaker 2: and in deep pain that they're not talking about it.
Speaker 2: And there's a reason they're not talking about it. They're
Speaker 2: not talking about it because they don't feel safe talking
Speaker 2: about it. They don't feel sane talking about it, and
Speaker 2: they feel like when they talk about it, they're gonna
Speaker 2: be locked up in a white wall, padded room and
Speaker 2: throat and the key is gonna be thrown away. That's
Speaker 2: how I felt.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was on that bus.
Speaker 2: The bus gets there, everybody need boards and the bus
Speaker 2: driver eyes me, looks right at me and goes, come on, kid,
Speaker 2: get off the bus. I gotta go. You couldn't even
Speaker 2: see it. So I walk up to him, look him
Speaker 2: right in his eyes. Waterfalls are now flowing from mine,
Speaker 2: and he just motions me to get off the bus.
Speaker 2: And I walked down those two short steps and they
Speaker 2: felt like a million my heart heavy, my body weighing down,
Speaker 2: the pains so great, and I walked onto the span
Speaker 2: on the Golden gate bridge, and I paced back and
Speaker 2: forth for nearly forty minutes, crying like a baby.
Speaker 1: How old are you at this time? I was nineteen
Speaker 1: nineteen years old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And bikers and joggers and runners and tourists and
Speaker 2: patrol officers searching for suicidal people went by me twice. Now,
Speaker 2: I always make it clear those officers at the time,
Speaker 2: in the year two thousand, they they did not have
Speaker 2: the training they have today. I've trained many of them.
Speaker 2: They did not at the training they have today to
Speaker 2: search for people who are in that place. And over
Speaker 2: the last ten years, those officers have, in their valiant
Speaker 2: effort saying between fifty and one hundred and twenty lives
Speaker 2: from going over those rails every That's incredible, and that's
Speaker 2: more power to them. But they didn't have that protocol
Speaker 2: for me. They had that protocol because of me. And
Speaker 2: so I found myself at a very particular light rail,
Speaker 2: which I'll never forget, and I never name it because
Speaker 2: I never want anybody to copy what I did. But
Speaker 2: I know the exact light rail, and I leaned over
Speaker 2: that four foot nothing rail that ease of access to
Speaker 2: lethal means, and I cried profusely. My tears to the
Speaker 2: water blow. And I really was having this innern dialogue
Speaker 2: battle with the voices and then with my I guess
Speaker 2: you would call it my conscience saying Kevin, don't do this.
Speaker 2: This is wrong. You can't do this. Find a phone,
Speaker 2: call anybody. I didn't have a cell phone. Call anybody,
Speaker 2: Call anyone. You loves you now, And then the voices
Speaker 2: would go, you must die jump now. A woman from
Speaker 2: my left approached me and she was smiling, and I thought,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this is my lady, this.
Speaker 1: Is the she sees my pain, an angel.
Speaker 2: She's gonna ask me if I'm okay, I don't have
Speaker 2: to do this. I don't have to die today. I
Speaker 2: left the fate of my life in a complete stranger's hand,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't fair to her. Yeah, And she walks up,
Speaker 2: big sunglasses on, and she goes, will you take my picture?
Speaker 2: And hands me a digital camera.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, And.
Speaker 2: I took her camera and she posed five.
Speaker 1: Times and there's tears strolling just streaming down your face.
Speaker 2: Where I was gonna leave the world forever. Yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: the sun was in her eyes, Chris. Maybe she was
Speaker 2: trying to reach me in her own way, and there
Speaker 2: was a language bearer who knows, who knows, But she
Speaker 2: takes her camera back and she walks away, not twenty
Speaker 2: yards off the bridge, back across the whole span to
Speaker 2: re experience it all over again where I was there
Speaker 2: to destroy myself.
Speaker 1: And as you saw her walk away, that was like
Speaker 1: your life preserver. Yeah, floating away that that was your hope.
Speaker 2: I mean, the bus driver, the people on the bus,
Speaker 2: that was enough. But this one, this woman, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, even if she was trying to reach me,
Speaker 2: I couldn't catch it. And that was like my life preserver.
Speaker 2: I was hoping, beyond a hope that she was going
Speaker 2: to say something. And when she walked away, this message
Speaker 2: flooded into me. It wasn't so much a voice that
Speaker 2: I was hearing at this point, it was how I felt.
Speaker 2: And at this moment I said to myself, absolutely no
Speaker 2: one cares. And that is the single greatest lie any
Speaker 2: of us have ever told. When I go and speak
Speaker 2: around the world, I don't remember if I did it
Speaker 2: there at Pebble Beach, but when I go and speak
Speaker 2: around the world, every time I tell that part of
Speaker 2: the story, I say, by an honest raise of hands,
Speaker 2: if any of you had been there on that day,
Speaker 2: seeing nineteen year old me leaning over that four foot
Speaker 2: nothing rail, that ease of access to lethal means ready
Speaker 2: to leave my family and this world forever, how many
Speaker 2: of you would have cared.
Speaker 1: You did, and we all raised our hands, every one
Speaker 1: of us.
Speaker 2: Everybody raises their hand every time, no matter what country,
Speaker 2: no matter what life it's everyone raises their hand. People care.
Speaker 2: But there is a blockage on both sides. There's a
Speaker 2: blockage in your mind for the people that are suicidal
Speaker 2: to say the truth, and there's a blockage on the
Speaker 2: other side for the people who love them who don't
Speaker 2: know how to ask the question, are you thinking of
Speaker 2: killing yourself having made plans to take your life? And
Speaker 2: do you have the means? Because the crisis text lines
Speaker 2: original AI algorithm, which predates this all this AI craze,
Speaker 2: hyper Intelligent has determined those three questions get a more
Speaker 2: honest answer than are you thinking of suicide or are
Speaker 2: you thinking of self harm? Because of the taboo on
Speaker 2: the word suicide and the fact that self harm is
Speaker 2: by definition not suicide, it's self harm. And so if
Speaker 2: we can understand how to ask these questions to people,
Speaker 2: in desperate pain, who we love or who we care about,
Speaker 2: who we know, or who are our clients for the
Speaker 2: people that are clinicians, if we can understand that and
Speaker 2: not be afraid to say, Hey, I'm worried about you.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering how you're doing. I know you haven't been
Speaker 2: doing well. I can tell. And I'm going to ask
Speaker 2: you three questions. But before I ask you those three questions,
Speaker 2: before you answer them, I want you to be honest,
Speaker 2: and I want you to know I'm lacking in any judgment,
Speaker 2: no judgment at all from me, and I am here
Speaker 2: for you to listen, to understand, not to respond. Then
Speaker 2: you ask the questions, are you thinking of killing yourself,
Speaker 2: having made plans to take your life? Do you have
Speaker 2: the means? And you have a chance to save a
Speaker 2: life in that moment? And it works often, it works often,
Speaker 2: really most of the time. And so none of my
Speaker 2: family knew that. So it's not their fault what happened.
Speaker 2: They weren't They weren't too blamed for what I did,
Speaker 2: and and and and one of the things your listeners
Speaker 2: and your viewers will know is that all around the world,
Speaker 2: there are millions upon millions of people and families that
Speaker 2: have lost loved ones to suicide that inherently and innately
Speaker 2: blame themselves. And it's not your fault. They didn't die
Speaker 2: because of your inspited you. They died because of a
Speaker 2: lethal emotional pain that had nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2: Take that guilt off of your shoulders. That's too much
Speaker 2: weight for anyone to bear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is very common. It's very common. I've
Speaker 1: lost people to suicide, and I know a lot of
Speaker 1: people listening have as well. And that is one of
Speaker 1: the first things. If I had only talked to them,
Speaker 1: if I had reached out one more time, if I
Speaker 1: had not been on that business trip, or whatever the excuse,
Speaker 1: you know that we have made up to carry that burden.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, my sister I found out years later. I
Speaker 2: found out fifteen years later. My sister blamed herself for
Speaker 2: the last fifteen years after it happened.
Speaker 1: Really I had.
Speaker 2: I would call her every morning we both went we
Speaker 2: both went to City College at the same time, and
Speaker 2: I would, I would were adopted. She's only nine months
Speaker 2: older than me, and I would, I would. I would
Speaker 2: call her every day before her class, And on this
Speaker 2: day I called her from home I didn't get to
Speaker 2: school yet, and she didn't pick up her phone. She
Speaker 2: had a phone, she didn't pay her phone, she was
Speaker 2: already in class, she couldn't pick it up. So she
Speaker 2: blamed herself for fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Well, and then she finally had that conversation with you
Speaker 1: fifteen years later.
Speaker 2: Teen years later, and she struggles today with severe clinical depression.
Speaker 2: She wouldn't be shy of me telling you this. Right now,
Speaker 2: she is in a psychiatric hospital as we speak. She
Speaker 2: is really struggling.
Speaker 1: Is it because of that moment, because of that day,
Speaker 1: or is it just this was.
Speaker 2: She's lived with clinical depressions since she can remember remembering. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And she deals with chronic thoughts of suicide, which nobody
Speaker 2: really talks about, the plague of chronic thoughts of suicide,
Speaker 2: which I dealt with for a very long time. Now
Speaker 2: they're seldom and few and far between, but they still occur.
Speaker 2: She deals with that, and we're doing our best to
Speaker 2: navigate through it and to get her help every day.
Speaker 1: So well, maybe you are the angel she needs, because
Speaker 1: if anybody has, you know, equipped to be a good
Speaker 1: brother in that sense, it would be someone who's been
Speaker 1: in the trench hasn't been there. I mean, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you can empathize with everything she's going through.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I give her as many tools and techniques
Speaker 2: as I can that she can utilize in the psych
Speaker 2: word and do things a little differently and shift the pair.
Speaker 2: I'm that's in our mind.
Speaker 1: So you make the decision to jump, you have that access,
Speaker 1: and you take that leap off the Golden Gate Bridge
Speaker 1: certain death. Your first thought was was what really shook
Speaker 1: the room? When when you tell your first thought as
Speaker 1: soon as you let go of that that handle the
Speaker 1: guardrail to leap to you certain death? What was your thought?
Speaker 2: Instantaneous regret from my actions and this one recognition that
Speaker 2: I just made the greatest mistake in my life. It
Speaker 2: was likely too late. And Chris, for ninety nine point
Speaker 2: nine percent of the people and they've jumped off the
Speaker 2: bridges behind me, it's been too late. They're all gone.
Speaker 2: Of the four or five thousand people that have died
Speaker 2: off the Golden Gate Bridge, and look, the bridge Directorate
Speaker 2: would like to tell the bridge authority who own and
Speaker 2: run the bridge, would like to tell you that eighteen
Speaker 2: hundred people have jumped off the bridge and died. That
Speaker 2: number is ridiculous that was recorded at least twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: They are not counting anymore. They haven't been counting for
Speaker 2: a long time. They don't count the people that wash
Speaker 2: away to see, never to be found. They don't count
Speaker 2: the people that are eating by fish to the bone.
Speaker 2: They don't count the people they find less than sixty
Speaker 2: percent of the body, because when you hit those waters,
Speaker 2: your limbs could be severed. The water is so sharp.
Speaker 2: They don't count the people that wash away to see.
Speaker 2: They don't count so many people. And when the bridge
Speaker 2: directorate came out and said it was eighteen hundred people,
Speaker 2: the marine corner who saw the bodies, a good friend
Speaker 2: of mine, Ken Holmes, and the bridge patrol officers would
Speaker 2: say when the Golden Gate Bridge District authority would tell
Speaker 2: us that thirty forty people go off the Golden Gate Bridge,
Speaker 2: it was more like sixty year higher. Count that for
Speaker 2: ninety years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So.
Speaker 2: In any event, back to the story at hand.
Speaker 1: That you were saying, your first thought was immediate regret.
Speaker 2: I regret. I coined that phrase in an Examiner article
Speaker 2: when I first started talking about it, and after that,
Speaker 2: nineteen of the twenty six remaining Golden gate Bridge jump
Speaker 2: survivors the majority everyone else just didn't talk about it.
Speaker 2: But nineteen forward to all say they had the same
Speaker 2: exact instant regret that I had the moment their hands
Speaker 2: left the rail, and that tells us a great deal
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: I was just say, what is our takeaway from that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, think about it, Chris, Like, what about every other
Speaker 2: mean of suicide? What about the people that had moments
Speaker 2: before they actually passed away? What were they thinking? And
Speaker 2: I have met thousands of suicide attempt survivors that have
Speaker 2: attempted in all kinds of means that had the exact
Speaker 2: same instint regret at the moment they thought they were
Speaker 2: going to die. It's undeniable and it's tragic because if
Speaker 2: we could just get to them in time, and I
Speaker 2: don't mean the people who love them, I mean like society,
Speaker 2: If society could change the narrative on suicide, if society
Speaker 2: at large could say, you're not crazy, you're not a
Speaker 2: psycho like they used to call me. You've got issues
Speaker 2: you need to deal with, that you need to treat,
Speaker 2: and that you need to heal from and find recovery,
Speaker 2: and we're going to help you do it. At large,
Speaker 2: but we you know, Chris, we spend this country I
Speaker 2: think spends fifty times the amount of money on smallpox
Speaker 2: a year then it on suicidevention and mental health. I'm
Speaker 2: part Black. More seven to ten year old Black children
Speaker 2: are dying by suicide than every before in the history
Speaker 2: of the world. How does this seven year old child
Speaker 2: how to take their life? Its my mind, It wrecks
Speaker 2: my soul every day. I've been screaming from the mountaintops
Speaker 2: for twenty three years, but sometimes I feel it. Not
Speaker 2: here on your platform, but sometimes I feel like nobody's listening,
Speaker 2: you know. And that's coming from a guy whose videos
Speaker 2: have reached three billion people and over two hundred thousand
Speaker 2: and counting have said this story saved their life. And
Speaker 2: that's a gift and I'm grateful for it. But when
Speaker 2: are we going to reduce the numbers of the human
Speaker 2: race of suicide as a whole? And I'm not the
Speaker 2: only one doing this. There's now thousands of mental advocates,
Speaker 2: self proclaimed mental advocates across social media across the globe
Speaker 2: doing the work trying to help make it change. And
Speaker 2: let's make no mistake about it, They're making a difference.
Speaker 2: A person to person changing and helping to save lives.
Speaker 2: But we're not mental health experts. If we had mentalth experts,
Speaker 2: there would be no mental health problems. If we had
Speaker 2: suicide prevention experts, there would be no suicide. So I'm
Speaker 2: never gonna label myself that I am on a journey
Speaker 2: trying to help as many people as humanly possible, find
Speaker 2: a way to be here tomorrow every day after that,
Speaker 2: and talk about their immense, immeasurable pain and stop silencing it.
Speaker 2: That's the biggest problem I think people have. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that's the biggest issue is we get into this,
Speaker 2: We get stuck into this recidivistic cycle of suiciddle thinking,
Speaker 2: and then we decide to shut ourselves off and to
Speaker 2: silence ourselves and to not tell anyone for fear of
Speaker 2: how they will judge us. But if we are going
Speaker 2: to go forward and be vulnerable and talk truth about
Speaker 2: our suiticidil ideations, we can't be met with aggression. We
Speaker 2: can't be met with anger, we can't be.
Speaker 1: Met with judgment, skepticism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah, you know you don't feel that way.
Speaker 2: It's all in your head. No, we need to be
Speaker 2: met with love, compassion, care, empathy and a total lack
Speaker 2: of judgment and then steps to get better. And that's
Speaker 2: that's what I've developed over the years, is that I
Speaker 2: created a ten step plan that thousands of people utilize
Speaker 2: called the Art of Wellness two point zero. It's ten
Speaker 2: steps that I didn't invent. I didn't tell a novel idea,
Speaker 2: and it make them up. They are science packed, evidence informed,
Speaker 2: proven ways to benefit brain health, to change your life.
Speaker 1: And I'll say it again but just if you're listening
Speaker 1: right now and you're like, oh my god, I need this,
Speaker 1: go to at Kevin Hines story. That's at Kevin Hines
Speaker 1: Story and you can find all this information. I'll say
Speaker 1: it again later, but if I just for people listening,
Speaker 1: if you're like, I need this now, I wanted to
Speaker 1: get that out there. So Kevin, you you you do
Speaker 1: make that jump, and ninety nine point nine that is
Speaker 1: the real number. Ninety nine point nine percent of the
Speaker 1: people who jump off that bridge. You reach terminal velocity
Speaker 1: and you hit that water. And for those people that
Speaker 1: don't know, hitting water is not like hitting a pillow.
Speaker 1: You're it's you might as well hit a brick wall.
Speaker 1: Water is very hard. I know that sounds weird, but
Speaker 1: that's the physics of it. Did you just freakishly hit
Speaker 1: at the perfect angle of somehow? I know you still
Speaker 1: suffered massive internal damage, but you somehow survive this.
Speaker 2: So I'm very careful when I answer that question because
Speaker 2: I want to I don't want once again, I don't
Speaker 2: want to encourage people. Right, I will say, is this
Speaker 2: you hit it fifteen thousand pounds of pressure. That's a
Speaker 2: giant African elephant standing on your chest. The people who
Speaker 2: have survived fell in the exact same way.
Speaker 1: Okay, I won't say, hey, yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't matter. But what people don't understand. And
Speaker 2: I was written to by a good friend of mine
Speaker 2: who's in my film sus Said the Ripple Effect. Marcus
Speaker 2: Butler shared with me a spoken word poem he wrote
Speaker 2: years after he had seen fifty seven dead bodies under
Speaker 2: the Golden Gate Bridge. He saw the worst of the worst.
Speaker 2: He saw all kinds of stuff, and it gave him severe,
Speaker 2: severe PTSD and he is finally finding himself and finding
Speaker 2: hope again. But he wrote it. He wrote a letter
Speaker 2: to me, and he was worried about sending it to me,
Speaker 2: but he wrote it to me, and he said, Kevin,
Speaker 2: I help you understand. I want to share this with
Speaker 2: people somehow. This is what happens when you jump off
Speaker 2: the Golden gate Bridge. And I won't go into it,
Speaker 2: but there are tens of ways to die off of
Speaker 2: the Golden gate Bridge and they're all slow and violent, very.
Speaker 1: Violent, but you survive. And look, if you are a
Speaker 1: if you would believe in any higher being, you got
Speaker 1: to hear this miracle story of Kevin's because you're there,
Speaker 1: you're probably if you're not unconscious, you're somewhat unconscious from
Speaker 1: the blow. There is no way you are swimming or
Speaker 1: staying afloat. How did you stay afloat? That is the
Speaker 1: most incredible miracle story of God just deciding it is
Speaker 1: not your time yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like you, Chris, I have a firm
Speaker 2: belief and faith in God. I always have, always will
Speaker 2: to each their own. That said in the water, I
Speaker 2: was going down. I couldn't get back to the surface.
Speaker 2: I had surfaced and I was going down, couldn't get
Speaker 2: back the surface, And I thought, this is it. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna drown. It's over. What have I done? I don't
Speaker 2: want to die. God, please save me, and at that moment,
Speaker 2: at that moment, I said that something began circling beneath me.
Speaker 2: It was very large, very slimy, and very alive, and
Speaker 2: I panicked. I thought it was a shark, and those
Speaker 2: are great white breeding grounds. So I'm punching my one
Speaker 2: good arm, like this guy's skin's gonna eat me, and
Speaker 2: I'm done. I didn't dive, jump it off the gold
Speaker 2: and get bridge shark, It's gonna eat me perfect And
Speaker 2: so it turns out it was no shark. I was
Speaker 2: on a television program on ABC News with John Kinyonez,
Speaker 2: who doesn't show what you do. It was on Primetime
Speaker 2: Live when he did that, and he asked me the question,
Speaker 2: you know what happened in the water? I said, I
Speaker 2: thought them was a shark beneath me in the water. Well.
Speaker 2: The show went viral online when they put it out
Speaker 2: to the world, and one man wrote back. Morgan I
Speaker 2: won't say his last name wrote back and said, Kevin,
Speaker 2: I'm so very glad you're alive. I was standing less
Speaker 2: than two feet away from me when you jumped. Until
Speaker 2: this day watching this show, no one would tell me
Speaker 2: whether you lived or died. It's hanted me until right now.
Speaker 2: By the way, Kevin, there was no shark like you mentioned.
Speaker 2: You thought there was on the show, but there absolutely was.
Speaker 2: And I'll show you here a sea lion. And that's
Speaker 2: Herbert the sea lion on my shirt, who's my spirit
Speaker 2: animal and and uh and who saved my life that
Speaker 2: day and did not leave from beneath me until the
Speaker 2: Coastguard boat pulled up behind me.
Speaker 1: And he lifted you, literally lifted you at the surface,
Speaker 1: swam under you, and pushed you up.
Speaker 2: I was deep in the water, and he butted me,
Speaker 2: butt me, butt me, butt me up. He was circling
Speaker 2: beneath my shoulders, my elbows and my knees, and eventually
Speaker 2: I was just lying on the water, immobile basically, with
Speaker 2: this thing just nudging me.
Speaker 1: Come on and.
Speaker 2: Call that what you want. That is very, very personal miracle.
Speaker 2: And I was always in forever believe that God saved
Speaker 2: my life that day.
Speaker 1: Well if if, if you don't call it divine intervention,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what else you would call that. I
Speaker 1: could go on for hours with you, but I want,
Speaker 1: I want to, because there's more to this story and
Speaker 1: your background and all that. But what I really want
Speaker 1: to do too is move forward for people that are
Speaker 1: out there, and I want to go back over the
Speaker 1: two sides of this. Number One, if you are listening
Speaker 1: and you are struggling, if you are where Kevin was,
Speaker 1: If you have suicidal thoughts, and I know you still
Speaker 1: have suicidal thoughts, what is your advice? What steps immediately
Speaker 1: should we be taking.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're in that position, you're in that mindset,
Speaker 2: you're thinking of suicide, you're maybe making plans. Stop, take
Speaker 2: a breath, Do four to forty resonance breadths into your
Speaker 2: nose four seconds, hold four seconds, release eight seconds, like
Speaker 2: ap purse lips, like a whistle of no sound. Do
Speaker 2: that up to forty times if you can. It lowers panic, stress,
Speaker 2: adrenaline and shock and anxiety. Bring your body to a
Speaker 2: comp right now, give yourself time and hear me. Number one,
Speaker 2: there's a two pronged technique I use every time suicidal
Speaker 2: that I teach to everyone I know that is suicidal,
Speaker 2: that works around the world and is now right now
Speaker 2: working for my sister who's struggling. Two pronged technique. Find
Speaker 2: a mirror, any mirror, anywhere, Look into that mirror and
Speaker 2: repeat this. My thoughts do not have to become my actions.
Speaker 2: They can simply be my thoughts. If they're dangerous to
Speaker 2: myself or others. My thoughts do not have to become
Speaker 2: my actions. They can simply be my thoughts. They don't
Speaker 2: have to own, rule or define what I do next.
Speaker 2: And the second thing you must do, and the most
Speaker 2: important thing, is turn to anyone in front of you,
Speaker 2: whether you know them from Adam or not, and say
Speaker 2: four simple but very effective words with the right person,
Speaker 2: I need help now. The difference between me and people
Speaker 2: who die by suicide and attempt and I have an
Speaker 2: attempt to in twenty four years is because I do
Speaker 2: not stop saying I need help now until one person
Speaker 2: is willing to answer the call. I have been at
Speaker 2: the Atlanta Airport. I have stopped a TSA agent. I
Speaker 2: have said I need help now. He was like, what
Speaker 2: do you mean, buddy, I said suicidal. He took me
Speaker 2: to a locked room, brought three police officers, two security guards.
Speaker 2: I was almost on the no fly list, but he
Speaker 2: got me to my wife. My cell phone had dad,
Speaker 2: and he got me to safety. I need help now,
Speaker 2: is the answer. Ask it every time, and you know, look,
Speaker 2: we're not just talking the talk. We're walking the walk.
Speaker 2: My family and I started the Bridge Rail Foundation, and
Speaker 2: my wife and I were founding board members. My dad
Speaker 2: was the founding board member along with Paul Muller and
Speaker 2: Dave Hall. Dave Haull lost his thirteen year old daughter
Speaker 2: of the bridge. We fought for the better part of
Speaker 2: twenty years to raise the nets at the Golden Gate Bridge.
Speaker 2: They are in place now across three hundred and sixty
Speaker 2: thousand square feet of the bridge, and there's been a
Speaker 2: three month period at the bridge where there were zero
Speaker 2: suicides for the first time in almost ninety years. Wow.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2: Regular new film about it called The Net. It's the
Speaker 2: harrowing journey of all of the people involved to make
Speaker 2: this happen, and it is harrowing. The Bridge dractorate fought
Speaker 2: us at every turn.
Speaker 1: Do you've Yeah, that makes you sick, by the way,
Speaker 1: But when you have you found obviously people have jumped,
Speaker 1: people have hit the net.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have.
Speaker 1: And have you found that those people have hit the
Speaker 1: net had that regret and that has stopped them and
Speaker 1: it then stopped them from continuing.
Speaker 2: I can tell you that the people that were saved
Speaker 2: from the net attempted again, but I don't know the
Speaker 2: specific details of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Asking for help, that is, I need
Speaker 1: help now, are the most powerful words in the world.
Speaker 1: And it's okay to talk about this, and that is
Speaker 1: if you are ruggling. Now. For those of us that
Speaker 1: are wanting to make a difference, whether we've lost someone
Speaker 1: or not, I'm sure we all know somebody answering. I
Speaker 1: assume number one, answer the call. You know, if someone
Speaker 1: says I need help now, be that person, Be there
Speaker 1: for them, be the support.
Speaker 2: And whether you don't know them or you know them,
Speaker 2: just remember you could be the catalystic saving a life.
Speaker 2: And understand that if it doesn't go that way and
Speaker 2: they end up taking their life, that's not your fault.
Speaker 2: We're not saying that, but but you could. We all
Speaker 2: we all we are saying is that as a human condition,
Speaker 2: we could be a little more loving, a little more kind,
Speaker 2: a little more compassionate, and a little less judgmental of
Speaker 2: those around us.
Speaker 1: There are disease. I lost my anti Crohn's disease many
Speaker 1: years ago and it was very difficult. You know, doctors
Speaker 1: and even family. You get frustrated at times because you
Speaker 1: can't see it. You can't see their pain. And with
Speaker 1: crones there's real, I mean actual pain, and same thing
Speaker 1: with mental illness. It's so hard when you can't see
Speaker 1: what someone's going through. It's you know, it's obvious when
Speaker 1: you have this big gash and a cast on your
Speaker 1: arm or your bandages. You're like, Okay, I get it.
Speaker 1: There's cause and effect there, and I know that's our
Speaker 1: own mental issues that we can't get the big picture
Speaker 1: of that. But just because you can't see something doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's not excruciating. And like yourself, it was excruciating
Speaker 1: what you were going.
Speaker 2: Through, really was? It really was?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I say this at every event I talked
Speaker 1: to about mental health. About suicide, it's okay, And I
Speaker 1: back me up on this because this is one of
Speaker 1: the biggest misnomers. It's one of the biggest, you know,
Speaker 1: pieces of misinformation. If you ask someone about suicide, if
Speaker 1: you mentioned suicide, you increase the risk. That is false.
Speaker 1: That is a lie. You do not increase the risk.
Speaker 1: In fact, you help them by asking.
Speaker 2: A pain shared is a pain had when? But when
Speaker 2: you ask someone if they're thinking about killing themselves specifically,
Speaker 2: those words they made plans to take their life? Do
Speaker 2: they have the means? You have the power to save
Speaker 2: a life.
Speaker 1: And if you ask that and the answer is no, great,
Speaker 1: then there you go. No harm, no foul, best case scenario, yeah,
Speaker 1: who cares. But asking those three specific questions, and I'm
Speaker 1: glad you said it again because I wanted to get
Speaker 1: back to it is you know, are you thinking about
Speaker 1: taking your own life? Do you have the means? And
Speaker 1: ask those questions. Don't be afraid to ask those questions.
Speaker 2: Don't be afraid.
Speaker 1: Where can we find the documentary that's out, Not obviously
Speaker 1: the new one Net I'm very interested to see, but
Speaker 1: Suicide the Ripple Effect. Where can we find that?
Speaker 2: You can find that currently on Vimeo, on demand vi
Speaker 2: Imeo and then just on demand plus Suicide the Ripple
Speaker 2: Effect on Google, or you can just go to Vimeo
Speaker 2: and search for it. Suicide the Ripple Effect E F
Speaker 2: F E C T. And the new film The Net
Speaker 2: is in pre production. We are we are raising funds
Speaker 2: for a nap out and if you, if anyone, would
Speaker 2: be so gracious as to help us support this film.
Speaker 2: It's just the netmovie dot com.
Speaker 1: The neetmovie dot Com. I will be going there very quickly,
Speaker 1: and and if you need to find Kevin, follow him
Speaker 1: on social media. As I do, I continue to learn.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've I'm pretty well versed in all this
Speaker 1: as I've been speaking about it for years, but when
Speaker 1: you meet someone the likes of you, all the different
Speaker 1: podcasts you go on, all the times you speak around
Speaker 1: the world, I learn more and more as I dive in.
Speaker 1: So you can follow Kevin at Kevin Hines Story obviously
Speaker 1: all together at Kevin Hines Story, and it really is revelatory.
Speaker 1: It's just it's it's I know it sounds weird, but
Speaker 1: it's actually positive. I know it's such a negative subject,
Speaker 1: but it's so positive. When I watch your stories and
Speaker 1: I listen to people speaking about suicide, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's hope. People are talking about this, and I will say,
Speaker 1: the lights are coming on. We're finally speaking about this
Speaker 1: more and more, and I'm very excited about the progress
Speaker 1: that we are making.
Speaker 2: I totally agree with that. I think that I think
Speaker 2: the people that are sane and well out there in
Speaker 2: the world to the best of their ability, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're they're engaging, they're acting on things, they're fighting, they're
Speaker 2: fighting for causes. They're getting behind people's causes. They're working
Speaker 2: to amplify people's causes like you are right now. This
Speaker 2: kind of interactivity is incredible and it's going to change
Speaker 2: the shape of people's lives. And positive, powerful, hopeful, meaningful
Speaker 2: media can save lives. We do it every day, and
Speaker 2: we need more people. We need more soldiers in the
Speaker 2: fight to produce positive, powerful, meaningful, kind, compassionate media as
Speaker 2: opposed to the opposite.
Speaker 1: I love that great message to end on, my friend.
Speaker 1: I was looking forward to this for a long time
Speaker 1: and I will. I will end this as I began it.
Speaker 1: I love you, my friend. I'm always there for you.
Speaker 1: If you ever need anything, make me one of those
Speaker 1: first calls. I appreciate you so much. I think that.
Speaker 1: And again, I know we're both faith based people. I
Speaker 1: believe that the Good Lord brings people into your lives
Speaker 1: for a reason. Sometimes it's only for a season, but
Speaker 1: also for a reason. I feel like you came into
Speaker 1: my life for a reason, and vice versa. And I'm
Speaker 1: so glad that you were able to come on and
Speaker 1: talk about this message today, and it won't be the
Speaker 1: last time I have you on.
Speaker 2: I hope, oh brother, that means the world to you.
Speaker 2: Have no idea. I'm so grateful.
Speaker 1: And and one last thing, Yes, sir, my.
Speaker 2: Wife and I have got to take you and your
Speaker 2: lovely wife out to.
Speaker 1: Dinner anytime you name it. I would love that so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we need to we'll take this off air. All my
Speaker 1: best to you and I will talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: And by the way, when the net comes back on,
Speaker 1: when when you release it in production, that we definitely will.
Speaker 1: We'll have you back on to talk about that. That
Speaker 1: impactful film as well. Thank you, brother, my thanks to
Speaker 1: Kevin Hines. And again I can't urge you to follow
Speaker 1: him enough at Kevin Hines's story. It's so important. I
Speaker 1: hope you found that as impactful and meaningful as I
Speaker 1: did when I heard it the first time, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to bring it to you for those of you
Speaker 1: that haven't heard his story. There are so many that
Speaker 1: go to that bridge, or go to a number of
Speaker 1: places that are kind of well known to try to
Speaker 1: take their life, and for some reason, he was spared.
Speaker 1: For some reason. Now he's decided to tell that story
Speaker 1: and I God bless him for it. And again for
Speaker 1: any of you that are struggling out there. You're not alone,
Speaker 1: you are loved, and reach out. Ask that question, say
Speaker 1: those four important words, I need help now. Please please
Speaker 1: reach out. You're not alone out there, and you are loved.
Speaker 1: There are people that care for you, no matter what
Speaker 1: the voices are saying inside your head. So I wish
Speaker 1: you all the best, and I appreciate Kevin coming on,
Speaker 1: and I thank you for listening, and I hope you
Speaker 1: love this show as much as I did today. God
Speaker 1: bless and I'll talk to you soon because we have
Speaker 1: a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and
Speaker 1: make sure to write us a review and leave us
Speaker 1: five stars. I'll talk to you next time.