Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
Speaker 1: modern whitetail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your guest host
Speaker 1: Tony Peterson, and today I'm speaking with the one and
Speaker 1: only Alex Gilstrom. Alright, folks, welcome to the wire to
Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, which has brought to you by First Light.
Speaker 1: You've probably figured out that this is not the voice
Speaker 1: of Mark Kenyon. Good Old Kenyon actually caught a private
Speaker 1: jet down to California to spend some time in Silicon Valley.
Speaker 1: It turns out that Meta, you know, the company that
Speaker 1: owns Facebook and Instagram, is giving Mark in a war
Speaker 1: ard for most social media selfies in a single year,
Speaker 1: at least in the thirty to thirty nine men's age
Speaker 1: class category. I think what's that lizard guy's name, Zuckerberg.
Speaker 1: I think Zuckerberg is actually presenting the awards. So that's uh,
Speaker 1: I guess pretty cool for Mark. And speaking of Mark,
Speaker 1: a guy who has no doubt faced all kinds of
Speaker 1: slumps in his life. That's the whole theme behind this
Speaker 1: podcast with Alex Gilstrom. We all face bad streaks of
Speaker 1: white tail hunting and it's tough to break the slump
Speaker 1: and get out of them. So today, Alex, you know,
Speaker 1: who's a die hard public land hunter and one of
Speaker 1: the corner office folks over there at white Tail Properties,
Speaker 1: he and I are going to talk about the worst
Speaker 1: streaks we've ever had and how we broke them. I
Speaker 1: think anyone who hunts white Tails can relate to this
Speaker 1: episode and if you can't keep hunting, and eventually you'll
Speaker 1: be able to relate. Gilly, how are you doing, buddy?
Speaker 1: I'm doing well, man, I'm doing well. You have a baby,
Speaker 1: which is your first one that you know about, right,
Speaker 1: but I know that is correct, and that baby is
Speaker 1: do win the babies do February eight, okay, and that
Speaker 1: So not to get too personal here, but I'm gonna anyway,
Speaker 1: was that timed out around deer hunting or was that
Speaker 1: just a happy accident? A little bit of both? We
Speaker 1: actually not without again not without to get into into
Speaker 1: a whole a whole saga of the story here, but
Speaker 1: we we we really we went through kind of a battle, man.
Speaker 1: I mean we we we had originally we were doing
Speaker 1: the whole like timing thing right, so like we were
Speaker 1: married for about a couple of years, and we're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now it's like time to know I want to start
Speaker 1: a family. I'm not getting younger, certainly not getting any
Speaker 1: better looking, so we need to start trying to get
Speaker 1: these uh, get these kids going right. And and so
Speaker 1: we went the whole thing. We got pretty we got
Speaker 1: pregnant fairly quickly, and then had a miscarriage. So I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, we'll shoot, Like what's I gonna do?
Speaker 1: So I went through that whole thing, and I was like, all,
Speaker 1: we're gonna start trying again. And then like could not
Speaker 1: get pregnant for like two almost two years. So it
Speaker 1: reached it reached the point where at first we were
Speaker 1: definitely on the on the track of like okay, let's
Speaker 1: be smart about this, let's really time this, and then
Speaker 1: it will reach the point of like okay, we just
Speaker 1: gotta do whatever we can do to make it happen.
Speaker 1: So like went through like the whole infertility thing, and
Speaker 1: everything ended up checking out okay, and got the right
Speaker 1: you know, the right help, and we were and all
Speaker 1: things considered, we were pretty lucky, which meaning it took
Speaker 1: very it took little guidance or help for us to
Speaker 1: actually conceive and make it happen. So that was great,
Speaker 1: but uh, all that aside, it ended up working out
Speaker 1: perfectly from a time standpoint. So this is gonna be
Speaker 1: a terrible analogy, I'm gonna say it anyway. So you
Speaker 1: started out and you're like the the die hard pheasant
Speaker 1: hunter with a pointer, and you've got the nice over
Speaker 1: under and you're like, only perfect points, perfect flushes, and
Speaker 1: only I'm only taking the right shot, and then it's
Speaker 1: a whiff, and then you lose one in the grass,
Speaker 1: and you lose one in the cattails, and pretty soon
Speaker 1: you've got the semi auto with five shells and you're
Speaker 1: shooting himut of the car window. Yeah, and where you're
Speaker 1: like where You're like, I think that was a rooster, right,
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, we were definitely. I was definitely there.
Speaker 1: You're googling the game farms closest to your house, you
Speaker 1: can go shoot some planet birds just to feel better exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who's running? Yeah, who's running? Plant discounts? Were planting bird
Speaker 1: discounts and stuff like that. We were, Yeah, we were
Speaker 1: on that version of baby of having the baby. So well,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy for you, man. You you got lucky,
Speaker 1: you know, we had a vastly different experience. We've we
Speaker 1: got pregnant instantly, like barely any trying whatsoever. And it
Speaker 1: was like, I'm like, it's got to be right after
Speaker 1: deer season and as far before Turkey season as it
Speaker 1: could possibly be, and I mean I nailed it. It
Speaker 1: was perfect and that except instead of one baby, we
Speaker 1: had to and twins always come early. So I was
Speaker 1: literally buying groceries to go muzzleloader hunting. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: got six weeks left before these kids are coming. And
Speaker 1: my wife called me and she's like, my water broke
Speaker 1: and I was like, I hate to admit this, so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna anyway, I thought. Then I'm like, this is
Speaker 1: gonna screw up my muzzle or hunting for the rest
Speaker 1: of my life. And it literally has Yep. I get it, dude.
Speaker 1: I totally understand where it's like you hear stories from
Speaker 1: buddies where it's like, oh, you know, and it's and
Speaker 1: you like see and then they turn it into a positive, right,
Speaker 1: But like these kids that are born during November and
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I get to hunt with my kids
Speaker 1: and this and the birth you know, they get to
Speaker 1: the birthday buck and all of this and that, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, that sounds great, but what does it take
Speaker 1: like a dozen years before it gets cool, Like I
Speaker 1: mean that does not sound fun, Like yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: you can hunt with your kid when they're born anytime,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I know, I mean, you gotta you gotta
Speaker 1: look for the silver lining on that stuff. But it's
Speaker 1: I'm curious with you. You and I We've known each
Speaker 1: other a long time. We did, uh we did a
Speaker 1: thing for North American white tail for a couple of
Speaker 1: years called Project Public where we hunted a much public land,
Speaker 1: and so we've been you know, we've kind of flown
Speaker 1: in the same circle for a long time. You do
Speaker 1: a lot of public land stuff, and I you know,
Speaker 1: when when we were gonna have the girls, everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna have any more time to hunt, like
Speaker 1: you're gonna be and I'm like, well, you know, it's
Speaker 1: my job and I'm gonna do this. Like I wasn't
Speaker 1: that worried about it. But what I was worried about
Speaker 1: was going from essentially not unlimited time, but like real time.
Speaker 1: If I got a tag somewhere, I'm like, I can
Speaker 1: give this eight or ten days, which is a lot
Speaker 1: of time and then you know to be in okay,
Speaker 1: you've got three days, four days, whatever, And I was
Speaker 1: I was worried that. I was like, I'm gonna hit
Speaker 1: a bunch of these these streaks where I'm just not
Speaker 1: going to be able to make it happen. And it
Speaker 1: actually made me super focused and I went on a
Speaker 1: tear for several years after we had the girls because
Speaker 1: it was like, you only have x amount of time
Speaker 1: and you better get real efficient with it. And so
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see how this shakes out for you,
Speaker 1: because I think you know, and I think I talked
Speaker 1: to any May about this too one time. Like I
Speaker 1: think for some people it's like a major driver to
Speaker 1: like get your ship together and like you don't, you
Speaker 1: don't have time to waste anymore for me, and you're
Speaker 1: totally agree. So efficiency has always been a huge focus
Speaker 1: for me for a month for a number of reasons,
Speaker 1: like obviously super lucky to have a career in the
Speaker 1: outdoor industry. But like you know, I'll say, like I
Speaker 1: write a lot of stuff with you, like we do
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, a lot of content stuff too,
Speaker 1: but like I have a day job, right thankfully it's
Speaker 1: in the outdoor industry, which is fantastic, but there's still
Speaker 1: like everybody thinks, like we joke about it all the
Speaker 1: time in the hunting industry, it's like I should have
Speaker 1: Like we was like, man, if I wanted to hunt
Speaker 1: all the time, I should have just got I should
Speaker 1: have gotten to the fishing industry, not not the other
Speaker 1: way around. So it's kind of like it's kind of real,
Speaker 1: Like you know, people think we just get to hunt
Speaker 1: all the time and doing me wrong. I'm not playing.
Speaker 1: We do get to hunt a lot and it's awesome,
Speaker 1: but um, there's still responsibilities and priorities and things like that.
Speaker 1: When you're you know, managing teams and multiple people, you've
Speaker 1: got you've got things to do. So efficiency is super important.
Speaker 1: I got married, like that enters a whole new realm
Speaker 1: of responsibility and priorities. And I want to be there
Speaker 1: and spend time with my wife and I want to
Speaker 1: you know, have be that have the presence. So efficiency
Speaker 1: has always been a huge focus of mine. And and
Speaker 1: just like you, I mean I love to go a
Speaker 1: lot of different places and do a lot of hunts,
Speaker 1: there's only so much time. So actually I talked about
Speaker 1: and write about this a lot, and it's like, I
Speaker 1: call it like hunting with a three day mindset, and
Speaker 1: so regardless of where you are, how much time he hands,
Speaker 1: like what if you only had three days to get
Speaker 1: it done? And so I really and now more importantly,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that that philosophy and kind of my my
Speaker 1: approach from that standpoint has led me to be able
Speaker 1: to kind of continue that and probably even ramp it
Speaker 1: up even more so once kid, you know, once the
Speaker 1: baby gets here and the kids start going, I mean,
Speaker 1: and then I mean, by knowing me, it's like I
Speaker 1: always you know, talk like any Maine and you said,
Speaker 1: like he said it, it's like it's it's so amazing
Speaker 1: how efficient that guy actually is and continues to get
Speaker 1: it done so consistently. Um not on that level. I
Speaker 1: don't pretend to like I'm like the last ten minutes
Speaker 1: of daylight on the final day of wherever I'm gonna be, Like,
Speaker 1: that's when I kid, and then I've got to figure out, Okay,
Speaker 1: I need more time tomorrow to cut process the deer,
Speaker 1: cape them out, do whatever I'm gonna do, because this
Speaker 1: always happens that way. But um yeah, efficiency. To your point,
Speaker 1: efficiency is a major driver behind you know, what I do,
Speaker 1: just because there's so many other things going on, and
Speaker 1: is as much as I would just like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna dedicate how I'm gonna be at this state or
Speaker 1: in this place, however long it takes, and that's what
Speaker 1: I'm here to do, and it just it never seems
Speaker 1: to work out that way. But definitely, uh yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not oblivious to the fact that efficiency is going
Speaker 1: to be a major major priority moving well. And I
Speaker 1: think that you know, you've done this a lot. I've
Speaker 1: done this a lot where we just encourage people to
Speaker 1: go travel and try these hunts because you really find
Speaker 1: out a lot about yourself. And I think what bites
Speaker 1: a lot of hunters in the ass is if you're
Speaker 1: if you're the kind of guy who's like, I've got
Speaker 1: my grandma's farm or this lease or whatever, and I
Speaker 1: hunt in state I can only afford to do this,
Speaker 1: or I don't have the desire to travel, you can
Speaker 1: kind of get complacent with that. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people go, you know, I could hunt September,
Speaker 1: I could hunt early October, but I'm gonna wait for
Speaker 1: the rut and I'll get it done then. And then
Speaker 1: you go to when you should be able to get
Speaker 1: it done and the weather sucks and it's seventy five
Speaker 1: degrees and or you know whatever, what things conspire against you,
Speaker 1: and it just doesn't happen. And now you look back
Speaker 1: and you go, man, I had an awful lot of
Speaker 1: opportunities I could have hunted earlier and didn't. And now
Speaker 1: you're in that late season situation where your tag is
Speaker 1: not filled and it's just a different ball game. And
Speaker 1: when you go do those You know, if you travel
Speaker 1: a lot of state one time and you're like, I've
Speaker 1: got five days and I got this expensive nonresident tag
Speaker 1: to make the most of it, changes how you focus.
Speaker 1: And I know you do this a lot. Like when
Speaker 1: I travel, it doesn't matter where I go, I'm always
Speaker 1: bringing home something with me where I'm like, I can
Speaker 1: use that in Minnesota or where in Wisconsin where I
Speaker 1: hunt a lot where I do tend, I should have
Speaker 1: more time. And I think those lessons are so important.
Speaker 1: You you learn I mean, yes, I mean I've learned it,
Speaker 1: especially taught me how to hunt. I mean, don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong, Like you know, I grew up hunting permission
Speaker 1: properties in southwest Michione and everything like that with my
Speaker 1: dad and family and stuff. And you you you cut
Speaker 1: your teeth and you learn like like really big like
Speaker 1: maybe maybe pillar esque like values and like, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: I need to play the win because you know the
Speaker 1: core the core concepts are strategies behind hunting. You can
Speaker 1: learn that stuff and obviously continue to learn if you're
Speaker 1: if your if your perspectives right, you can certainly learn
Speaker 1: you know, tons and tons of tons on private land,
Speaker 1: but public hunting, like you said, from the efficiency standpoint,
Speaker 1: limited time to get it done, and just learning nutrain
Speaker 1: in different habitats. I mean, that is what has sculpted
Speaker 1: like my knowledge base of hunting and how to how
Speaker 1: to do it. You know, how to get it done
Speaker 1: on white tails and I I mean, you never know
Speaker 1: what the future holds. And I know you with the
Speaker 1: girls getting older and everything that you've certainly spent more
Speaker 1: time than you had in the past on private land
Speaker 1: like a your farm or whatever, of just you know,
Speaker 1: being able to enjoy that time with your family and
Speaker 1: do that more. And I'm sure that's in my future
Speaker 1: as well. But I can't imagine a scenario where I'm
Speaker 1: never gonna not hunt public land simply from the standpoint
Speaker 1: of my hunting isn't isn't I want to kill the
Speaker 1: bit of course I want to kill. I like killing
Speaker 1: big mature dear. I love that that that that chess
Speaker 1: match with a with a you know, old wiley buck.
Speaker 1: But um, it's such a passion for knowledge and and
Speaker 1: and and just try to just try to advance myself
Speaker 1: my skills, be the best hunter. I can be learned
Speaker 1: about dear as much as I possibly can, and and
Speaker 1: I just don't think there's any better way to do
Speaker 1: that than than limited time on public land. It is
Speaker 1: the ultimate teacher. I mean, it will just it will.
Speaker 1: It will build you up and tear you down faster
Speaker 1: than anything. Yeah, and it is weird. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: you know, the last two years, I've spent probably almost
Speaker 1: as much time hunting with my daughters as I have
Speaker 1: just for myself, and I have been on private land
Speaker 1: with them, and it's like I find myself loving you know.
Speaker 1: I can go out and brush in a blind and
Speaker 1: that sucker is going to stay there, you know, Like
Speaker 1: I can I can set like I can really set
Speaker 1: the stage. But it actually makes me like really crave
Speaker 1: that show up at a new on a public land
Speaker 1: somewhere and figure it out. And I kind of feel
Speaker 1: like personally, I've just been in like this this sort
Speaker 1: of weird spot with the meat eater gig and you know,
Speaker 1: having to film more and save some tags and stuff
Speaker 1: where I'm like, I haven't found that balance yet, and
Speaker 1: I feel like after this year, I'm like, I got
Speaker 1: I got this like lioned out, Like I know how
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to do this to still love it,
Speaker 1: because you can, you know how it is like you
Speaker 1: can slip into like a danger zone pretty quick when
Speaker 1: it's like too much of your job or too much pressure.
Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but for me, uh,
Speaker 1: if I start getting like if I start putting a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure on myself, like let's say, you know,
Speaker 1: I go to a couple of states and I don't
Speaker 1: feel a tag or you know, like I just don't
Speaker 1: have that hunt that like fulfills me, or I don't
Speaker 1: kill one at home, and I start getting towards the
Speaker 1: end of the year, I start really putting pressure on
Speaker 1: myself and that's when I will just flame out, like
Speaker 1: I make bad decisions you're a spot on. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can totally relate to that. My last like banger year,
Speaker 1: I would say, was twenty nineteen, I think, and I
Speaker 1: killed uh. I think I killed three bucks and had
Speaker 1: really good I mean just just saw. I felt like
Speaker 1: I felt like I saw a year I would shoot
Speaker 1: like I shoot almost every almost almost like every time
Speaker 1: I hit the ones, like it was crazy right, And
Speaker 1: it's been, I mean honestly every season since in the
Speaker 1: last three years has been have been a grind so
Speaker 1: ironically to your point, this year, I drew an Iowa tag,
Speaker 1: which obviously is you know, is like something everybody looks
Speaker 1: forward to. We carve out a bunch of time and
Speaker 1: I had some buddies that long story short, actually had
Speaker 1: some access to some pretty good private ground in Iowa
Speaker 1: this year, which is which is never I mean, that
Speaker 1: has not happened before. So I was like, even though
Speaker 1: I love spending so much time in public land, I've
Speaker 1: been doing that so much the last you know, forever,
Speaker 1: I was kind of like secretly like loving it. Like
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get to
Speaker 1: like there's gonna be food sources and there's gonna be
Speaker 1: like even food plots and I'm gonna get to set that,
Speaker 1: like this is gonna be awesome, like and and and
Speaker 1: I love the dynamic of that and of all, you know,
Speaker 1: year every year I always helped buddies plant food pots
Speaker 1: and and set some farms up and stuff for them
Speaker 1: that I don't I don't hunt, but I just enjoyed
Speaker 1: doing it and being out there and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I mean I've got a knowledge base of it,
Speaker 1: but just not getting to enjoy it a lot myself.
Speaker 1: And the craziest thing man like actually and it was,
Speaker 1: it was a phenomenal, like I it was. I broke
Speaker 1: it up into a couple of different segments of four
Speaker 1: day periods where I hunted on on the private ground
Speaker 1: in Iowa, and it actually caused me And it was only,
Speaker 1: like I said, a handful of days and I did
Speaker 1: love it, but it actually caused me to miss and
Speaker 1: and even just being on public land, like I just
Speaker 1: I just enjoy like where I wasn't hanging and hunting
Speaker 1: and doing my thing and scouting just constantly, like it
Speaker 1: wasn't so much of that, um so in a weird way,
Speaker 1: like it was super fun to kind of try something
Speaker 1: different and something that was a little bit unique to
Speaker 1: my the way I've been hunting for the last, you know,
Speaker 1: so many years. But it was still it was a
Speaker 1: cool thing. So I'm kind of not necessarily in the
Speaker 1: same boat as you yet, but on the same track.
Speaker 1: I'm on same path as you. I feel like we're
Speaker 1: It's something I want to do. I want to continue
Speaker 1: to understand managing land and doing some more interesting things
Speaker 1: like that with private land. But I just gotta I
Speaker 1: just gotta determine where that balance is for myself. That
Speaker 1: that buck he killed down there is freaking sweet man.
Speaker 1: It was a fun one, yeah, I was. It was
Speaker 1: such a weird thing, honestly, Like I don't know how
Speaker 1: much you want to get into it, but just like
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but like there is you know,
Speaker 1: obviously an encounter can take anywhere from like multiple minutes
Speaker 1: anywhere to like seconds, right, and like I have internal
Speaker 1: conversations with myself throughout that entire situation. So like with
Speaker 1: this book, I spotted him, I don't know, he was
Speaker 1: like sixty yards seventy yards away and some thick stuff
Speaker 1: kind of just bumping does and I was I could
Speaker 1: see was like his body and I was like, absolutely,
Speaker 1: that's a mature book, no doubt. Like he's a he's
Speaker 1: a monster. Like body wise, I couldn't really see his head.
Speaker 1: And I'm starting having this back and forth like okay,
Speaker 1: should I call to him? You know? And I'm like
Speaker 1: asking myself and answering these questions internally, all I feel
Speaker 1: like we like we all do right. And I ended
Speaker 1: up calling to him a little it and pulling him pull.
Speaker 1: He starts coming my way, but it's still thick, and
Speaker 1: then finally kind of steps out into the opening a
Speaker 1: little bit and he's probably like fifty yards or so,
Speaker 1: and I can tell it's this it's and it's a
Speaker 1: deer that my buddy said had trail camera pictures up
Speaker 1: for years. They called them the Big seven. It was
Speaker 1: just this, just this ancient, old, big, gnarly seven point
Speaker 1: and long story short, he he snort, wheezes and like
Speaker 1: just does the whole thing, and he's lit pearl and
Speaker 1: then just being awesome and and I'm like there's this big,
Speaker 1: deep ditch between the two of us, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know. And I started just having these thoughts
Speaker 1: and I was like, man, it's like my Iowa tag
Speaker 1: and I waited so long to have it. I know
Speaker 1: there's good deer around and there's some other stuff I
Speaker 1: can hunt. It's like I don't know it. And I'm
Speaker 1: just sitting there, like do I want to shoot this
Speaker 1: this ancient, big old gnarly buck. And I'm like, actually
Speaker 1: like having this debate in my head. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm gonna I don't know if
Speaker 1: I want to shoot him. I don't know. Again, It's
Speaker 1: like I had my bow and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: and maybe if he crosses this ditch and like comes
Speaker 1: up on on this other side. I mean it's like
Speaker 1: an eight foot deep ditch. I was like, if he
Speaker 1: crosses that and comes up my mind, I said, he's
Speaker 1: like he's like eight teen yards depending and he'd be
Speaker 1: right there. And so he starts kind of doing his thing,
Speaker 1: and he started he rubs a tree a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I can just see his frame, like this big
Speaker 1: old gnarly seven point frame just going on. And I
Speaker 1: eventually I was like, I'm having this debate. Eventually, I'm
Speaker 1: like I asked myself and I just like everything stopped
Speaker 1: in my head and I just I just said, like dude,
Speaker 1: who do you think you are? Like, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: literally I almost audibly said it, Like I almost audibly
Speaker 1: said it because I got so frustrated with myself. I'm
Speaker 1: like you, I said this, this big, ancient, mature dear
Speaker 1: six I mean six seven, eight years old and way
Speaker 1: over I mean he was way over five and just
Speaker 1: big and awesome, And I'm like, who do you think
Speaker 1: you are? Man? Like you're you're kidding me, Like you
Speaker 1: just publiclyam hunter, you know, from southwest Michigan. All of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're in Iowa and this big, massive Bukistan
Speaker 1: in front of you, and you're debating if he's good
Speaker 1: enough for you to shoot. I got I got almost
Speaker 1: mad at myself. I was like, I'm hammering this thing,
Speaker 1: and sure enough, he finally broke, came down this ditch,
Speaker 1: came out the other side, and you know, shot him
Speaker 1: at eighteen he ran forty and tipped over. I mean
Speaker 1: it was like and then finally to go ahead and
Speaker 1: get my hands on him and see what he actually
Speaker 1: was just being a freak kind of cool deer. I
Speaker 1: was like, I was so like, there was no negative
Speaker 1: feelings at all other than the fact that I was.
Speaker 1: I was disappointed myself from being one of those, like
Speaker 1: I was kind of being a prick about it, right,
Speaker 1: Like I just I was so mad at myself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really hard for me to relate to because when
Speaker 1: I see a buck like that, I don't have any
Speaker 1: Like I'm never like, um, should I should? I not?
Speaker 1: I'm always like, yeah, I want to kill that, And
Speaker 1: it's uncharacteristic for me to like it. I never usually
Speaker 1: have that feeling, and I had it. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is wrong? Like I don't So anyway, I'm super
Speaker 1: happy that I got over my douch nous for about
Speaker 1: five minutes and I and I shocked this thing and
Speaker 1: it ended up happening the way it happened because I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, and then I'm like sitting there
Speaker 1: thinking like, oh my gosh, like how many how many
Speaker 1: eight and ten points have you shot? Or will you shoot?
Speaker 1: You know, in your in your lifetime. It's like, man,
Speaker 1: I would never even see a deer like that again.
Speaker 1: So yeah, super super pumped about it. It It was an
Speaker 1: awesome trip and I was really glad it all came
Speaker 1: together finally after it's been a grind. Dude, like you said,
Speaker 1: I mean, it has been a grind up to that point.
Speaker 1: So it was it was awesome to finally punch a tag.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. What's the worst slump you've
Speaker 1: ever had for white tails? You got one that sticks
Speaker 1: out one season? Uh? Yeah? Um, are there so many
Speaker 1: that you can't choose? Honestly? Kind of yeah, believe it
Speaker 1: or not? Man Like I would probably say, and I
Speaker 1: mean I'm not even categorizing it necessarily in a from
Speaker 1: a standpoint of like filling a tag. Um, I would
Speaker 1: say probably this year, dude, likes like in recent memory,
Speaker 1: like don't get me wrong, Like I mean, I killed
Speaker 1: the great buck, and I when I'm super happy with that,
Speaker 1: and I've still got some time left and some things
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna try to hunt in Illinois and
Speaker 1: of public, I don't know here that I've scouted a lot,
Speaker 1: but um, it has been like to even see a
Speaker 1: like a buck, I would shoot her. And my so
Speaker 1: my goal just getting into into it, like whenever I'm
Speaker 1: on my trip, right, Like if I'm going on a trip,
Speaker 1: I'm like here's five days here, here's three days, three day,
Speaker 1: seven days on a trip somewhere. My my main goal
Speaker 1: most of the time is to shoot a good representation
Speaker 1: of that area. That like that's kind of my my
Speaker 1: my scale, my my measuring stick, and so um, you know,
Speaker 1: I know you hunt the Dakota is a lot I
Speaker 1: do too. Like South Dakota is one of my favorite
Speaker 1: places in the world. And I've been going out there
Speaker 1: and hunting a you know, a few different areas of
Speaker 1: a larger region for years and years and years, and
Speaker 1: this was the first year I did not. And you
Speaker 1: can point to a million different things. The weather was crappy.
Speaker 1: It was like eighty degrees four days in a row,
Speaker 1: and like there was and believe it or not, like
Speaker 1: when I was there in South Dakota, it was like
Speaker 1: there was three consecutive days where the wind speed did
Speaker 1: not get over seven miles an hour, which is I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is unbelievable. Like I just can't even
Speaker 1: wrapped my mind around it. And I did not. Long
Speaker 1: story short, I was there seven days, six days. I
Speaker 1: was there six days, did not see a buck that
Speaker 1: I would shoot while hunting, And that had never happened
Speaker 1: to me in almost in a decade of doing that.
Speaker 1: And um, and then even here in Illinois. Um, Like
Speaker 1: I said, I haven't spent a lot of time here
Speaker 1: in Illinois yet because I had that Iowa tag and
Speaker 1: I was wanting to dedicate most of my season to
Speaker 1: bat but and probably eight hunts nine hunts here and
Speaker 1: in Illinois in western Alina where I live, Um, I've
Speaker 1: yet to see I've yet to see a dear that
Speaker 1: that I would shoot. So it's it's been that's been
Speaker 1: really tough. So what do you what do you do?
Speaker 1: Do you just stick to your guns and say it's
Speaker 1: still a buck, that's a good representation of the area,
Speaker 1: or do you ever just go you know what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna make my decision when he starts walking
Speaker 1: down the trail, or do you try to shoot a dough?
Speaker 1: Or what do you What do you do? How do
Speaker 1: you break that slamp? So I try? Yeah, with dose
Speaker 1: are always a question mark for me because I love
Speaker 1: shooting him so much and I love you know, So
Speaker 1: it's always it's with with a dough, I never really know.
Speaker 1: I just kind of let them whatever's gonna happen in
Speaker 1: that home. I'm gonna let whatever happened in that moment
Speaker 1: appen because I just I love eating medicine and that's
Speaker 1: what we live off of like percent times. So um,
Speaker 1: I don't really know what does. But with Bucks, it's
Speaker 1: like I really I scout so much, um, like I
Speaker 1: know you do, like so many you know, so many
Speaker 1: of us and kind of this circle like we we
Speaker 1: scout so so much. And I truly believe that is
Speaker 1: the secret to success, especially when you're on public land,
Speaker 1: that I I'm not gonna be hunting areas where they're
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be hunting areas where I know that they're there,
Speaker 1: or they're strong likelihood of a possibility are there there
Speaker 1: or at some point in the season whether they're they're
Speaker 1: or not, or whether they've been killed or not, there's
Speaker 1: good there's a good buck or bucks on this property.
Speaker 1: So I stick to that where it's a good representation
Speaker 1: of that of whatever that property could yield. And then
Speaker 1: I have that mentality. But I think, again, what the
Speaker 1: what the public land education has really instilled in me
Speaker 1: is like it's not you know, I think there's something
Speaker 1: to be said for the fact during the rut of
Speaker 1: like okay, you've got your like like we talked about
Speaker 1: like rut circuits for bucks, right where they've got like
Speaker 1: this circuit of of like cruising that they'll do or
Speaker 1: chase or scouting those and locking those down, breeding those,
Speaker 1: et cetera. But like, I think there's somebody said for
Speaker 1: a hunter to have that as well, where he's got
Speaker 1: like Okay, I'm gonna have these in this region or
Speaker 1: this section of this property. I've got my you know, however,
Speaker 1: many four or five, and I'm gonna just rotate around
Speaker 1: for the first week or two in November, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna more than likely i'm gonna get an opportunity. Right Like,
Speaker 1: there's I think there's something you said for that. I'm
Speaker 1: not quite wired that way, like I and that and
Speaker 1: hunting publicly and is instilled this in me, and it's
Speaker 1: just worked for me. Mobility is best. If it's again,
Speaker 1: I might throw a couple of sits, maybe a couple
Speaker 1: of days at at at a spot. Um But if
Speaker 1: it's not happening, then I'm I'm moving. I'm just I
Speaker 1: just gotta keep going and finding the freshest stuff I
Speaker 1: possibly can. And I've been doing that. Um. So that
Speaker 1: is kind of my methodology, is maintain the thought process
Speaker 1: on a good representation of the of a good representation
Speaker 1: of that area and being mobile as I can to
Speaker 1: find that good representation of that area of that book.
Speaker 1: And I do. I do run some show cameras on
Speaker 1: public and and have some you know kind of I
Speaker 1: don't know if you can call it, you know, have
Speaker 1: tabs on them. But like I I've got a little
Speaker 1: bit of okay, this this book has been you know,
Speaker 1: fairly consistent in this area, and this you know, I
Speaker 1: might run into them here or whatever. But and then
Speaker 1: obviously that that's kind of without hunting pressure, right, that's
Speaker 1: the that's always the gold That's always the golden rule
Speaker 1: as far as determining what you're gonna do. But um
Speaker 1: so that that's kind of that's kind of my mentality,
Speaker 1: and I'm not worried. I think. The other thing about
Speaker 1: that about the standard thing, right is like what how
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lower or keep standards is um it's it's
Speaker 1: more about the experience that chase, the hunt and things
Speaker 1: like that than just like shooting. The absolute biggest thing
Speaker 1: for me, and it's a lot about meat. Man. Like
Speaker 1: I said, we we we really rely on venison. I
Speaker 1: love shooting dozing them. So I'm not worried about eating
Speaker 1: a buck tag because I'm gonna have dough, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: shoot those, and I'm gonna have that too. So a
Speaker 1: good representation area for a book is kind of my
Speaker 1: is always it's my pretty steadfast rule for myself. So
Speaker 1: let's say you go out there in Illinois and you're like,
Speaker 1: I should be able to find one and you can't,
Speaker 1: Like it's just kicking your ass. It's eight, ten, twelve
Speaker 1: sits in a row. Whatever, do you ever, you know,
Speaker 1: barring having some kind of sweet tag like an I
Speaker 1: would tag in your pocket, do you ever just like
Speaker 1: shake it up and go hunt someplace totally new, just
Speaker 1: go try something different and just because I I find
Speaker 1: myself some of the worst slumps I've had have been
Speaker 1: when I really focus on the big woods, like in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: And but I like it. I like the challenge of it.
Speaker 1: But I also like it because it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're not going to go there and target one sixties,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's it's not like it's
Speaker 1: not like a slump in Iowa, you know, So you're
Speaker 1: like to have lower standards or to just to be like,
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the one of the like the
Speaker 1: slumps that I like sticks with me so bad because
Speaker 1: I think it was like somewhere in there, I have
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time over there in northern Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I got a dough tag and
Speaker 1: I got a buck tag. I want to kill a
Speaker 1: dough when I want to kill a buck. And I
Speaker 1: could not get a deer to stick around in shooting range,
Speaker 1: doze bucks anything. And it took me like three weeks
Speaker 1: and I didn't hunt every day because I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't live there, but like three weeks of getting
Speaker 1: my ass handed to me by just mature does in
Speaker 1: the in the big woods before I finally shot one.
Speaker 1: And then like you know, I've I've had all kinds
Speaker 1: of streaky hunting in my life, but killing that one
Speaker 1: dough on public land there when I had just been
Speaker 1: getting smoked for three weeks was like such a boost
Speaker 1: for me, Like and you know, and we talked about this,
Speaker 1: we kind of like, you know, go kill dose, I
Speaker 1: go shoot them on a food plot or go do whatever.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, like you're you're talking in about
Speaker 1: a deer that might be as mature as any buck
Speaker 1: you'd ever pick your bow up for and you're not.
Speaker 1: You don't give them any credit whatsoever. And then you
Speaker 1: go into a situation like that and it's so like
Speaker 1: easy in the industry to sort of gloss over that fact,
Speaker 1: just be like, oh, just go fill the freezer just
Speaker 1: you know, like it's hard for you to go kill
Speaker 1: it two an a half yearld buck, like well where
Speaker 1: are you hunting? You know, like you've got to factor
Speaker 1: that into like if you're in a slump, like how
Speaker 1: hard should it be? Versus like how hard is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And you I couldn't agree more. And I think when
Speaker 1: I said, you know, when I say things like good
Speaker 1: representation of that area, I mean it can that can
Speaker 1: vary even depending on a given county or a region
Speaker 1: of a state that you're in. I mean it might
Speaker 1: be based on what even public track you're on, and
Speaker 1: how difficult you know, the opportunities are that that that
Speaker 1: are there. I mean, yeah, you've got to be able
Speaker 1: to adjust and shoot whatever's gonna make you happy. And
Speaker 1: I think the big thing is like even if I
Speaker 1: just like this year has been super super challenging just
Speaker 1: to find and see them. Um, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: outside Iowa, Um where I just keep moving. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's the big thing. Is I just because I
Speaker 1: don't know what else to do. I guess at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, is like I just I gotta
Speaker 1: keep the faith that I'm gonna find him eventually, and
Speaker 1: either the season is gonna end, I'm gonna run a time,
Speaker 1: or I'll catch up to him and that so I
Speaker 1: just I just that's I mean, it's without oversimplifying it,
Speaker 1: that's kind of how I approach it mentally. But it's
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a good lesson there, right because you've
Speaker 1: you've and I talked about this with Zach Farrenbell a lot.
Speaker 1: Like Zach loves to just run him down on the ground,
Speaker 1: like that's his thing and he's really good at it,
Speaker 1: and he found his lane, and that's like he's just
Speaker 1: his style. And you know, a guy like you, guy
Speaker 1: like Andy's like Scott Scott, Scot Scout Scout, get mobile,
Speaker 1: get on him, get on the fresh sign. And I
Speaker 1: was I was muzzled or hunt with a buddy of
Speaker 1: mine in in southeastern Minnesota a little bit ago, and
Speaker 1: we were sitting there and had uh busted up. I
Speaker 1: think he was probably a two year old. He was
Speaker 1: all busted up and he was he was walking out
Speaker 1: into this field, and then there was a bigger buck,
Speaker 1: probably like a ten whatever. I was gonna shoot either
Speaker 1: one of them if they got within range, and they
Speaker 1: would both walk down into this draw in this cornfield,
Speaker 1: and we were running out of light, and I looked
Speaker 1: at him, I'm like, should I belly crawl out here
Speaker 1: and see, you know, because if I got to the edge,
Speaker 1: I'm like, they're gonna be within range and there's gonna
Speaker 1: be an opportunity. So whichever one is there, and like
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, make something happen. And in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you always screw these up, like you've you've
Speaker 1: lost sight of them, even though I'm sitting there with
Speaker 1: a scoped gun, Like I haven't killed a deer with
Speaker 1: a gun and seven eight years, you know, Like, as
Speaker 1: I'm crawling across that chisel plog corn field and I've
Speaker 1: lost sight of both of these deer, I'm like focused
Speaker 1: on the smaller buck because he was the second one
Speaker 1: to go in something like I know better where he
Speaker 1: is and I'm crawling up there, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: that situation where you're like I should be able to
Speaker 1: see him, it's a chisel plog cornfield and I can't
Speaker 1: freaking see them, and you crawl a little and peak more.
Speaker 1: And then I looked over in that bigger buck standing
Speaker 1: there like eight yards away looking at me because he
Speaker 1: swung around and blew out of there, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was super fun. But I told my buddy on
Speaker 1: the way back, I'm like, my lane is just figure
Speaker 1: out where do you like to walk and wait for them?
Speaker 1: Because when I do this ship like you know, you
Speaker 1: know how it is like sometimes you kill them sneaking
Speaker 1: up on them, and you know, you go out and
Speaker 1: spot stock whatever. But for the most part, when you
Speaker 1: when you get enough years behind you in the rearview mirror,
Speaker 1: you're like, I know what I have to do to
Speaker 1: break this slump, Like I know what I have to
Speaker 1: do to fill this tag. And man, it's it's fun
Speaker 1: to kind of try the new stuff, but when you
Speaker 1: have things like that, you're just like I was like,
Speaker 1: just so reminded of so many times I've tried something
Speaker 1: like that and it just never works. I've I've found
Speaker 1: myself as time has gone on, more and more especially
Speaker 1: hunting more and more public land with vary with variations
Speaker 1: of pressure. Um, hunting from the ground more. I'm doing
Speaker 1: it a lot more. But I totally agree with the
Speaker 1: with the stock thing. I just it's patience For me, man,
Speaker 1: I really struggle being patient enough. Um, and I just
Speaker 1: I think it's a combination of uh, wanting to make
Speaker 1: it happen really bad, not being um okay with the
Speaker 1: fact that if it doesn't happen, or or being okay
Speaker 1: with myself if I screw it up. I think there's
Speaker 1: variations of that and just not doing not having having
Speaker 1: enough experience doing it and enough right. So, Uh, there's
Speaker 1: been times where I've slipped in on bucks, you know,
Speaker 1: where they're locked down with the dough or something that's
Speaker 1: you know, varying circumstances that just have them distracted. But
Speaker 1: like in terms of like buck you know, just feeding,
Speaker 1: or like in terms of them just cruising and trying
Speaker 1: to cut them off and get in front of them
Speaker 1: or do whatever. I'm right there with you, man, I
Speaker 1: have struggled great like it is not it has not
Speaker 1: gone well like anytime. I mean, it's just like oly
Speaker 1: Cow and Um, I respect it greatly. I think it's
Speaker 1: I think it's an incredible skill and it's something that
Speaker 1: I think I wish I was better at and I
Speaker 1: would like to eventually maybe get better at. But like
Speaker 1: I'm with you, like I'm perfectly content funding off the ground,
Speaker 1: being in the right spot, in the right situation. But
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of more of like a how can
Speaker 1: I identify or find my best ambush point to get
Speaker 1: to cut him off, get in front of the intercepting
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. Um, but yeah, the little stalking
Speaker 1: in on him is it's it's a different thing, man,
Speaker 1: different thing. I honestly think impatience probably saves more bucks
Speaker 1: than anything. I mean, it is so and this is
Speaker 1: you know, this is why kind of why I wanted
Speaker 1: to do this this episode with you is you know,
Speaker 1: you start out the season, you've got X amount of tags,
Speaker 1: whether you got one at home or fifteen on the
Speaker 1: road or whatever, and you're like, this is my goal here,
Speaker 1: that's my goal there. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do that, and then the real world hits and you go, okay,
Speaker 1: I have to kind of have to adapt to this
Speaker 1: stuff and start figuring it out. But when you start
Speaker 1: getting in that desperation mode, that's when you're like I'm
Speaker 1: not going to do what I'm great at or i'm
Speaker 1: getting good at, and I'm gonna go try this new
Speaker 1: thing and you start blowing deer out and it starts
Speaker 1: to spiral and you just like, for me, I feel
Speaker 1: like I get like really streaky if I'm on a
Speaker 1: bad streak, Like I make shitty decisions and it just
Speaker 1: gets worse and I literally have to like start over somehow,
Speaker 1: you know. And you know how it is like sometimes
Speaker 1: you go on a tear and it's like you're just
Speaker 1: in the zone and you knock out like three states
Speaker 1: in her own and you're like this, I'm I'm king
Speaker 1: of the world, and it's always gonna level off. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, Uh, you're a huge baseball fan, right, yep?
Speaker 1: Did you watch the uh the Nolan Ryan documentary on Netflix?
Speaker 1: How badasses that, right? I mean, I you know, I
Speaker 1: grew up loving baseball and you know, paying attention to
Speaker 1: it and whatever, But I had no concept of how
Speaker 1: dominant he was. Unreal, unreal. It's any anybody, even if
Speaker 1: you're not really interested in sports, it's it's pretty freaking incredible.
Speaker 1: But you watch Nolan Ryan's career and you know, all
Speaker 1: time most strikeouts out of any picture of I mean,
Speaker 1: like his stats, like his records are freaking bananas, and
Speaker 1: you know, he starts out and he's getting his ass
Speaker 1: handed to him, and he's a reliever of the first
Speaker 1: couple of years, and then he goes through these stages
Speaker 1: where he's like so unbelievably dominant that the best hitters
Speaker 1: of the time can't can't touch him. And then he
Speaker 1: had times where he was getting shelled and people are
Speaker 1: like Nolan Ryan's passed his prime, like it's oh, and
Speaker 1: then he'd come back and figure something out. And I
Speaker 1: look at that and I go, jeez, if you're out
Speaker 1: there and you've been white till hunting five years or
Speaker 1: ten years, you know, or you know a lot of
Speaker 1: people who really hit a slump or at that stage
Speaker 1: where they go, I kind of got the little Bucks
Speaker 1: and the does figured out, but I want that Pope
Speaker 1: and young Buck and they cannot make it happen. Like
Speaker 1: you gotta think about the most talented professional athletes in
Speaker 1: the world at their craft that they've devoted everything to
Speaker 1: and they get paid crazy money for have you like
Speaker 1: seasons where they suck Like that's crazy. It's the reality
Speaker 1: of it. And I think part of it too, is
Speaker 1: just maintaining the ment like that that mentality, that positivity.
Speaker 1: It's not getting not you know, not second guessing what
Speaker 1: you know, the foundational like rules or whatever whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you're talking bow hunting, deer hunting, baseball, whatever it might be,
Speaker 1: but just maintaining that positive outlook and mentality that I
Speaker 1: know what I'm doing. I know I need to make
Speaker 1: some adjustments, but I need to stay the course and
Speaker 1: just stay consistently and stay at it, you know, and
Speaker 1: not give up. And and I think it's all about
Speaker 1: that balance point right where I'm with. I'm like you,
Speaker 1: where you go into these slumps, you're going to these hards.
Speaker 1: It's really easy for me to push really hard in
Speaker 1: moments like that where it's like I'm just gonna I'm
Speaker 1: gonna force this situation into a positive outcome, and that
Speaker 1: just rarely ever happens, because then what happens is you know, you're, you're, you're, you're,
Speaker 1: you're finally hanging this set up and it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not even getting where I want to be. And
Speaker 1: I just dropped a climbing stick and I just clanked
Speaker 1: off the other one. And you get up and you
Speaker 1: finally get it. You got you get your saddle platform hunger,
Speaker 1: you're staying hung or whatever, and you're like this and
Speaker 1: it's the wind switches like you know, with an hour left,
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, this is this is just perfect
Speaker 1: to see, you know, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you look up in the deers coming in, You walk
Speaker 1: to Tony yards you shoot him. Like that's I mean,
Speaker 1: that's how it happens a lot of times. And it's like,
Speaker 1: why do I do this to myself where I'm just
Speaker 1: so mentally just just grind, grinding and grinding almost to
Speaker 1: the point of like I mean, like you said earlier,
Speaker 1: but making it not fun and over forcing it instead
Speaker 1: of just like and again I think it's just riding
Speaker 1: the wave because you can't just you can't just totally, like,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, you can't just totally sit back and
Speaker 1: just oh, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. No, I mean,
Speaker 1: you have to buckle down in the right times and
Speaker 1: really and really be serious and stay focused. But you
Speaker 1: can't just tour the over where you're trying to like
Speaker 1: steer the ship so intensely that you just blow up
Speaker 1: in here. You know, you're just you're hurting yourself. And
Speaker 1: I definitely consistently every year get to a point where
Speaker 1: I do that. I just over I end up hurting
Speaker 1: myself and just totally get like, you know, way intense
Speaker 1: and every paying. A lot of times it's my wife
Speaker 1: for a couple of buddies or whatever, and they'll be
Speaker 1: like what are you doing? Like stop, like you're just
Speaker 1: you're you're not fun to be around. You're not going
Speaker 1: to talk to you about this thing. And it's like
Speaker 1: you just kind of gotta have that gut check or
Speaker 1: that reality check of like, man, you know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Just stay the course and kind of kind of ride
Speaker 1: the way. But I think fact what you're saying about,
Speaker 1: like Nolan Ryan and just all of that, I think
Speaker 1: so much of that comes back to perspective and mental
Speaker 1: state of just being confident in your ability, yes, but
Speaker 1: also just staying super positive and not letting the moments
Speaker 1: or the mishaps or anything like that be bigger than
Speaker 1: the overall like mission and goal at hand of like
Speaker 1: what you're actually doing out there. Do you ever do
Speaker 1: you ever just take some time off? I mean, do you,
Speaker 1: because when I get to that stage where nobody wants
Speaker 1: to be around me, which I hit it just about
Speaker 1: every Deer season two, I'm in it right now, bad bad. Uh.
Speaker 1: Do you ever just take time off and do something else? Yeah? Um, yes,
Speaker 1: and no, that's usually when I will. I don't know
Speaker 1: kind of kind of I should say. So when I
Speaker 1: get into those moments and those attitudes like that, A
Speaker 1: lot of times I'll go to a spot. Um, either
Speaker 1: I haven't scouted very much, I haven't hunted very much,
Speaker 1: or maybe I haven't even like boots on the ground
Speaker 1: scouted or been to physically at all, and I'll just
Speaker 1: go and just learn something new. I'll just like, I
Speaker 1: have no idea what's here. I don't have no experiences here,
Speaker 1: I have nothing I can really, I'm just gonna try
Speaker 1: and make like take my mind off of the fact
Speaker 1: of actually like killing a deer, and I want to
Speaker 1: go see if I can find something and do that.
Speaker 1: And it's like with no pressure, right, It's like I've
Speaker 1: never I've never been to this piece of public, I've
Speaker 1: never been over here. I just want to go and
Speaker 1: scout and find sign and try to, like, even even
Speaker 1: if it's something like I've done it a couple of
Speaker 1: times in the past, UM, and maybe actually we're talking
Speaker 1: about this, I'm thinking maybe I should need to be
Speaker 1: doing this now, like right, maybe I need maybe I
Speaker 1: want to hang this up and go go go scout
Speaker 1: something else. But um is even filing something away for
Speaker 1: future seasons, Like it might be like now we're kind
Speaker 1: of past the rut, right, so it's like you kind
Speaker 1: of look and maybe I'm finding a bunch of rut
Speaker 1: sign where there's just this whole area is torn up
Speaker 1: with rubs and maybe even there's some scrapes and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and there's you know, it looks like maybe
Speaker 1: there's dope betting up here or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, holy cow, I need to like wog
Speaker 1: this away for next year or something. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: found distracting myself from the fact that I haven't filled
Speaker 1: the tag or I haven't killed a book or whatever,
Speaker 1: um this year by doing stuff like that where it's
Speaker 1: still I feel like it's still benefiting or valuable to
Speaker 1: my hunting. Um, I'm still like spending quality time doing
Speaker 1: something productive. But maybe it's maybe it is like you said,
Speaker 1: there's in moments in situations like that. At least for
Speaker 1: me personally, I don't feel any pressure in that moment.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to gather information, have fun out there
Speaker 1: doing it, and you know, it's it's not really any
Speaker 1: time spent, you know, really focused on the intensity of
Speaker 1: filling a tag. Yeah, I think, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I'm lucky because I have some other stuff I like
Speaker 1: to do in the woods, you know, I do a
Speaker 1: lot of pheasant hunting and whatever else, you know, and
Speaker 1: I I find a similar kind of like a little
Speaker 1: bit of a release on the pressure of velve to
Speaker 1: just be like, I'm not gonna go deer hunting this weekend.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go pheasant hunting. And you always find something
Speaker 1: out there that's interesting or you just like it just
Speaker 1: sort of takes the edge off a little bit. And
Speaker 1: you know, there's something we don't really talk about in
Speaker 1: the hunting industry hardly ever. We always kind of paint
Speaker 1: this rosy picture of this stuff, right like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: the best thing ever and it's so fun, I can't wait,
Speaker 1: and I live for it and blah blah blah. Except
Speaker 1: when you're actually hunting a lot, a lot of it
Speaker 1: sucks a lot of it's really stressful, and a lot
Speaker 1: of it's just not that much fun sometimes, And you know,
Speaker 1: you're talking about dropping stuff out of a tree and
Speaker 1: just like having a bad attitude or whatever. When we
Speaker 1: were filming one week in November this year, I started
Speaker 1: the first couple of days on public land in southwestern Minnesota,
Speaker 1: and it was rough and we had one sit where
Speaker 1: we went in and you know, you've got a cameraman
Speaker 1: with you, and we were dropping, Like I got up
Speaker 1: into the tree, I dropped my grunt tube, I dropped
Speaker 1: my phone, so I went back down and got him.
Speaker 1: As I'm down there, the GoPro lands on my head
Speaker 1: that he dropped, so I picked that up. I go
Speaker 1: back up there, I dropped my grunt tube down again.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not gonna need it anyway because I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna see a freaking buck. And then he's like
Speaker 1: talking and we're in this little tree because there aren't
Speaker 1: that many trees there, and he like makes this gesture
Speaker 1: and knocks my arrow off my rest under the ground,
Speaker 1: and it's just pure yard sale down there, and I'm
Speaker 1: just like and that that was the city where we
Speaker 1: had I had scouted this river bottom spot and it
Speaker 1: looked freaking banging. In fact, I pheasant hunted it recently
Speaker 1: and jumped two good bucks out of there, so I know,
Speaker 1: I was like, I know, I was in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: I just didn't have the right spot or time or whatever.
Speaker 1: But we walked in there, and two days before I've
Speaker 1: been there, there's one banging trail that follows the river edge,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of parallels it and cuts the bends off,
Speaker 1: you know, just like dreamy rut stuff. You got the
Speaker 1: water behind just so the winds perfect, all that stuff. Yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: it's just like my favorite, like on paper, that's like
Speaker 1: my river bottom stuff like that. I love it. But
Speaker 1: we get in there and I like walk up to
Speaker 1: the tree to start hanging our set, and I look
Speaker 1: over and there's a dead buckland on the trail, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're just like, somebody gut shot it between you know,
Speaker 1: the two days before when I had scouted in. Now
Speaker 1: it was super fresh and it's laying dead in the
Speaker 1: middle of the trail we're hunting, and you're just like,
Speaker 1: what are the freaking odds? And you know, and then
Speaker 1: then we climb up and I drop everything I own
Speaker 1: onto the ground and my cameraman drops all of his ship.
Speaker 1: You're just like, sometimes, you know, in that situation, we
Speaker 1: can't just bow out and go chase peasants, although I
Speaker 1: wanted to, But sometimes you're just like you got some
Speaker 1: bad mojo, man, and you just kind of you gotta
Speaker 1: back out and do something else. Yeah. Well, plus and
Speaker 1: you're such a dog freak, and yeah, I feel like
Speaker 1: you're now you're you're entering a point where you're deer
Speaker 1: hunting just to get you the pheasants season and then
Speaker 1: you can you know what, I'll tell you what So,
Speaker 1: because you mentioned this early when you said you're not
Speaker 1: wired to just like you gotta find new stuff and
Speaker 1: you gotta hunt new ground. I'm I'm the same way.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not. I'm jealous of people who like can
Speaker 1: have one spot and just like that's their season. They're like,
Speaker 1: you know, target box or whatever. Like I just can't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't do anything for me. And I figured this out.
Speaker 1: I think I got lucky when I was like in
Speaker 1: college and I was fishing a bunch of tournaments and
Speaker 1: I burned myself to the ground. I was like, I
Speaker 1: hate fishing now too far. I went too far and
Speaker 1: I needed something else. So then I was like I
Speaker 1: got a freaking bull hunt. Like I got to get
Speaker 1: into a tree and decompress because I'm sick of you know,
Speaker 1: driving all over and haul on the boat and all
Speaker 1: that bus. And what it really taught me was like
Speaker 1: if I go too hard in the paint with anything,
Speaker 1: and that's like my nature, I need the backup stuff.
Speaker 1: And so the dog thing, that's just like for me,
Speaker 1: that's just like pure fun. Like I just you know,
Speaker 1: there's not the trophy bs and there's not like this
Speaker 1: this stuff that we have going on with the white
Speaker 1: tail world, and it's like you just gotta find and
Speaker 1: like if if you're hitting a spot with your deer hunting,
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't like this right now, Like I
Speaker 1: don't want to do it. I want to do something else. Man,
Speaker 1: you probably need some kind of backup outlet somewhere. So
Speaker 1: so you're telling me you don't. You don't measure your
Speaker 1: pheasants spurs and and and the wingspan and compare them
Speaker 1: to your buddies. You shoot big your peasants. No, I mean,
Speaker 1: and you know we're such idiots, right, Like I get
Speaker 1: I think one of the worst things that happened to
Speaker 1: us is this trophy hunting craze. I I just look
Speaker 1: at it. I'm like, there's so much bad that comes
Speaker 1: with it. But it's like it's a dumb thing to
Speaker 1: bitch about a because I've been a part of it
Speaker 1: for a long time, so it makes me a huge hypocrite.
Speaker 1: But be it's not going away, Like it's just gonna
Speaker 1: be a part of us no matter what. And so
Speaker 1: like the pheasant thing, yeah there's no trophy pheasants. But
Speaker 1: if you're out here hunt with three your buddies and
Speaker 1: you kill more birds than they do, like you're still
Speaker 1: gonna talk shit at the end of the night, you know.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I sometimes fantasize about a world
Speaker 1: where deer just don't have antlers, where all we can
Speaker 1: hunt are just antler less dear they all are the same,
Speaker 1: but we'd still have of like heaviest dough contests, and
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like we would never get
Speaker 1: away from like there was always be trophies in there somehow,
Speaker 1: I know because I've thought about the same So like
Speaker 1: I thought, dude, I've had this thought so many times,
Speaker 1: So exactly what we're talking about like in a tree
Speaker 1: thinking and it's just like what it right? And I'm
Speaker 1: like sitting there thinking to myself, I'm like, what if
Speaker 1: what if like Bucks were actually dough like like had
Speaker 1: they like this the maybe like the um what like
Speaker 1: the societal impact like implications of like what Bucks are?
Speaker 1: What if they? What if Dose and Bucks were flip flopped? Right,
Speaker 1: So it's like what if does all of a sudden
Speaker 1: like oh my gosh, she's got the longest ears and
Speaker 1: like and then like I'm going through this thing and
Speaker 1: like what if dose like had that impact that Bucks
Speaker 1: have like in our in our industry. But and then
Speaker 1: I found myself thinking exactly what you just said. It's like,
Speaker 1: wait a second, you just totally like ruined it because
Speaker 1: you're already thinking of ways to prioritize one dough over
Speaker 1: another dough. And it's like no, man, like that's not
Speaker 1: not I mean it is, man, It is such a
Speaker 1: I hate it and dude, I don't know. I mean
Speaker 1: the social media thing, dude, it's I know, it's part
Speaker 1: of what we do and we have to do it
Speaker 1: for our jobs and and it's and there's definitely positives
Speaker 1: to it and like ways to connect and interact as
Speaker 1: a community. But I really hate social media, you know,
Speaker 1: I do too, so much. But it's not like, you know,
Speaker 1: I would guess a lot of people who listen to
Speaker 1: this podcast probably didn't. They probably weren't like at the
Speaker 1: age where they were like hardcore white h hunters reading
Speaker 1: magazines fifteen years ago, you know, twenty years ago. And
Speaker 1: I remember the same ship, you know, when I was
Speaker 1: an editor at Peterson's Bow Hunting, and even before that,
Speaker 1: when like real Tree, you know, vhs and DVDs are coming,
Speaker 1: like it was, it was the same stuff. It was
Speaker 1: just a different medium. And now it's it's weird now
Speaker 1: because it's like we're so exposed to it, we're so
Speaker 1: addicted to our phones, and so we're like we're like
Speaker 1: not even like consciously checking into this stuff and exposing
Speaker 1: ourselves to this stuff that we don't really care about
Speaker 1: and actually pisces us off, which is a whole part
Speaker 1: of the plan to get us to look at it more.
Speaker 1: And it's just it's rough, man, And I honestly think,
Speaker 1: you know, I I you know, talk about sitting in
Speaker 1: your trees and fantasizing I had when I was or
Speaker 1: when I was muzzled or hunting. Earlier this year, I
Speaker 1: was like, man, what would be really cool is if
Speaker 1: every trophy photo, so you know, whoever you are, you're
Speaker 1: posing with that white tail buck or that big bull Elk,
Speaker 1: if there was like a breakdown on what it cost,
Speaker 1: because you know, because I see this. I saw this
Speaker 1: post from this this hunt that happened out on the
Speaker 1: Deserret in Utah for Elk, and I you know how
Speaker 1: it is. I know people, that's that's Rogan's place, that's
Speaker 1: you know, cam hunts there or whatever. And I don't
Speaker 1: know what they cost now, but a few years ago
Speaker 1: that was an eighteen dollar just tag. I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: more now more than that. Yeah, I'm you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's bucks. And you you know how this is
Speaker 1: because you're kind of an insider like I am, where
Speaker 1: you see this stuff and you know, and you go, man,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to knock that, like if people
Speaker 1: want to go do that whatever, I don't give a ship.
Speaker 1: But if it would change how everyone felt, if you
Speaker 1: were like, you know, here's a picture of this great
Speaker 1: book I killed. Here's my leases. Ten thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 1: and I spent this and this and this, and it
Speaker 1: was like a breakdown. I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: would look at this over and over and go, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's like a really common theme with most of these big,
Speaker 1: big animals I'm seeing, and there's a lot of money
Speaker 1: invested in them, a lot of money, and so it
Speaker 1: would I think it would kind of level us off
Speaker 1: a little bit. You'd go, like, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't get jealous of Jeff Bezos, you know, buying
Speaker 1: foot yachts, Like that's such a different world from where
Speaker 1: I live in Like it doesn't affect me. I don't care,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I'm not gonna get
Speaker 1: a red assid about a guy who starts to come
Speaker 1: any like that and gets billion dollars and starts a
Speaker 1: space company, Like I don't give a shure. But like
Speaker 1: on a smaller scale, you look at some of the
Speaker 1: money involved in some of this stuff and it's like
Speaker 1: it's like it's not that level, it's not Amazon owner level,
Speaker 1: but it's like so far beyond what most people I
Speaker 1: think probably realize. And you know, you look, especially some
Speaker 1: of the Western stuff, you're just like, yes, you know
Speaker 1: that Elk has a price on his head, like if
Speaker 1: you knew that, you wouldn't be like you'd be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a different world from me. Well, and I
Speaker 1: even think from a self reflection standpoint, like if you
Speaker 1: actually you know, because I hate seeing it, man, Like
Speaker 1: it's like uh and we all see it all the
Speaker 1: time too. And I really get on my buddy, like
Speaker 1: personal friends, I really get on their case if they
Speaker 1: do this because I just it really rubs me the
Speaker 1: wrong way. And it was like kind of goes back
Speaker 1: to what I said earlier about the Io bucket shot,
Speaker 1: where I was kind of like, who the heck do
Speaker 1: you think? You know? I was like yelling at myself,
Speaker 1: and it was like it's like when you know, the typical,
Speaker 1: prototypical like trophy photos post goes up on social media
Speaker 1: and it always starts with well is not the biggest
Speaker 1: buck in the woods or oh I know he's not
Speaker 1: going to score a lot or what Like I'm like, dude, no,
Speaker 1: to heck with that. Man. It's like, if you pull
Speaker 1: the trigger on that thing, be happy, be proud, be
Speaker 1: own it. You made a successful hunt, you had it,
Speaker 1: you made a successful shot recovery, you made it happen,
Speaker 1: You filled the free like those are the positive, so
Speaker 1: far outweigh anything that somebody else, somebody else who has
Speaker 1: no idea, or some keyboard warrior that has an opinion
Speaker 1: about what your dear scored or how old it was, Like,
Speaker 1: it's just it just drives me absolutely insane. And I
Speaker 1: think what you're talking about there would actually if you
Speaker 1: if if somebody actually sat down and like, okay, how
Speaker 1: much do I have invested in this dear and then
Speaker 1: they listed out the cost. I think the pride and
Speaker 1: that deer all of a sudden would go way up
Speaker 1: where they're like, oh, holy cow that you know. I
Speaker 1: hope my wife never sees this, but wow, like this
Speaker 1: is you know, this is like a you know, it's
Speaker 1: like you know, hundreds, if not thousands of dollars that
Speaker 1: you've got banked into this thing, and it's like, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's gonna matter a lot more to you.
Speaker 1: So I think I love that. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we need to start our own social media platform where
Speaker 1: I'll let you we on that, I'll I'll let you
Speaker 1: figure that out. I can tell you there maybe a
Speaker 1: lot of ways my career goes. It's not going to
Speaker 1: be starting a social media channel. No, that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: It'll go the other way if anything. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's important to just kind
Speaker 1: of look at this stuff and be honest about this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I think it's I think it's important to recognize it,
Speaker 1: like that's a component of what we have going on,
Speaker 1: and it it kind of feeds into the theme of
Speaker 1: this where it's like, you know, if you feel like
Speaker 1: you're out there getting your ass kicked and everybody else isn't,
Speaker 1: you're wrong, Like you're just you're just wrong. I mean,
Speaker 1: and you you and I well know people who are like,
Speaker 1: you know, they get it done. Like some of the
Speaker 1: some of the hunters I respect the most out of anyone,
Speaker 1: still have just clunker seasons. I wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: this earlier, but I forgot. I'm gonna ask you now.
Speaker 1: I think so many people they hit a real slump
Speaker 1: at some point in the kind of the beginning of
Speaker 1: their white tail career somewhere, you know, it might be
Speaker 1: the first deer, or a lot of times it's that
Speaker 1: real big step up from okay bucks to something they're like,
Speaker 1: I want to show this off, Like did you. Did
Speaker 1: you hit those in stages when you started out, or
Speaker 1: did you have one where you're like, I cannot bust
Speaker 1: through this one. I just can't. Did I did? I? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I bow hunted for five years before I killed the
Speaker 1: deer with the ball. So started in Michigan. You completely
Speaker 1: start archery hunting when you were twelve, and I was
Speaker 1: I think it was I guess six. I was sixteen
Speaker 1: when I shot my first buck with the ball, so
Speaker 1: I mean missed and I was not picking like it was.
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up. I grew up. I grew
Speaker 1: up like four legs, brown hair, and a white tail
Speaker 1: letter fly. You know that's like that's kind of where
Speaker 1: I grew up in. So I mean, I, uh no,
Speaker 1: manland back backstropped. I don't know what think two bucks
Speaker 1: didn't find them completely? You know with missed, I can't
Speaker 1: even tell you how many does um Where I was
Speaker 1: just I could not control the emotion, like I was
Speaker 1: so amped up on every single thing before it finally happened,
Speaker 1: and I never will forget it. It was a dough
Speaker 1: coming in at last light and finally I'm saying, like
Speaker 1: you have, like you have to kill this thing, like
Speaker 1: you can't let this go on forever, right, And and
Speaker 1: I spined her and she was like getting trying to
Speaker 1: you know, it was just a nightmare and ended up
Speaker 1: putting the finishing shot. So like, yeah, I mean every
Speaker 1: and and thankfully it got significantly better after that. But um,
Speaker 1: you know you learn those you know, you learn those
Speaker 1: those those things to calm yourself down. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I was I was just like anybody else. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was absolutely enamored, just consuming as much hunting content
Speaker 1: as I possibly could, the magazine, the vhs as the
Speaker 1: the DVDs, everything like that from a very early age.
Speaker 1: And I said, these people like shooting these just you know,
Speaker 1: unbelievable bucks and like just and consistently killing deer, and
Speaker 1: I just couldn't figure out why I couldn't hit that.
Speaker 1: And it was eventually what it kind of came to
Speaker 1: came to me after I finally like, okay, I killed
Speaker 1: my first one. It's like you just can't you can't
Speaker 1: let the moment be bigger than than you were that
Speaker 1: you know that situation. You've got to control yourself within
Speaker 1: that situation to be able to effectively can execute a shot.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so talk about slump. Yeah, I mean I was.
Speaker 1: I was in my I could drive before I actually
Speaker 1: finally killed something with the boat. Dude, I'm right there
Speaker 1: with you. I started out at twelve to Minnesota's minimum
Speaker 1: age was twelve, and I killed my first year, which
Speaker 1: was a button buck, uh like four days before the
Speaker 1: season ended when I was fifteen, So I essentially had
Speaker 1: four full seasons of hunting in before I killed a
Speaker 1: buck fawn that was the unluckiest deer in the woods.
Speaker 1: I I sprayed and prayed at that buck because he
Speaker 1: busted me drawn on him and he was trotting through
Speaker 1: and I just shot and I shot him through the
Speaker 1: liver and was like I will never forget that, dear.
Speaker 1: You know, I couldn't hear him coming because there was
Speaker 1: a bunch of fresh snow on the ground. And I
Speaker 1: looked down and he was right below me, and I
Speaker 1: was like, holy sh it, there's a deer here. And
Speaker 1: I drew and he busted me, and I remember thinking
Speaker 1: like every time, like every freaking time you drop, they
Speaker 1: see you. But you know, he was dumb, and it
Speaker 1: just when that arrow went through him and he ran
Speaker 1: off and I could see blood in the snow. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, like I think I'm actually
Speaker 1: gonna get one, and you know I had done. So
Speaker 1: that year was was the first full year I got
Speaker 1: permission to hunt this farm that I still hunt to
Speaker 1: this day. And when I walked into that farm, like
Speaker 1: seeing a buck for me at that time was like whoa,
Speaker 1: Like this is holy shit. And I walked into that,
Speaker 1: I walked in down this hayfield. I'm like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go carry a stand in because that's all I did.
Speaker 1: I had one stand, carried it in, put it up,
Speaker 1: take it down, and put it up, take it down.
Speaker 1: And I walked in there and I jumped a little
Speaker 1: year and a half old buck. And I remember like,
Speaker 1: I am on a spot now, like I am, I
Speaker 1: am on a farm that has these deer. And I
Speaker 1: started hunting that place every night. My mom would drive
Speaker 1: me out there and drop me off and I'd go.
Speaker 1: I'd walk into the spot, this looks good at hang
Speaker 1: a stand, and I would hunt it till I burned
Speaker 1: it right to the freaking ground. And then I keep
Speaker 1: going through the woods and I can't I can't remember exactly,
Speaker 1: but I think I missed like eleven deer that season.
Speaker 1: I remember I had a week when I missed three
Speaker 1: and it was all it was all little Bucks, it
Speaker 1: was all like you know, spikes Forky's basket six whatever,
Speaker 1: And I was just like I'd call my dad because
Speaker 1: my dad works second shift at IBM, and he'd be like,
Speaker 1: had tonight go and be like, missed another four key
Speaker 1: shot at him three times and then like I just
Speaker 1: remember my dad being like like, I guess just keep
Speaker 1: going out there, like he was odd of advice, like
Speaker 1: I I'm sure he was like I think I got
Speaker 1: a paternity test this kid, because this kid's ship he
Speaker 1: can't do it. And I mean, so when you talk
Speaker 1: about that, you know it takes you. Took you roughly
Speaker 1: the same amount of time. You're talking full seasons of
Speaker 1: hunting multiple and not killing a deer. And I don't
Speaker 1: know about you, but when I it took me. I
Speaker 1: was eighteen when I killed my first book, and then
Speaker 1: I killed one every year, actually probably every year since then.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've had a year where I didn't.
Speaker 1: But you know, I got to that point where I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, this the basket recks are like eventually
Speaker 1: throughout the season, one of those dudes is gonna die
Speaker 1: And when I when I started killing some two and
Speaker 1: a half year olds and I'm like, um, you know what,
Speaker 1: it's time to get some chest hair and like go
Speaker 1: go be a real man out there. That was when
Speaker 1: the real big second slump of my life hit where
Speaker 1: I was like I was not ready for it, Like
Speaker 1: I'm like I need to kill something that's three and
Speaker 1: a half year old, you know, like you're just whatever whatever,
Speaker 1: you know that on up And I was right back
Speaker 1: to that stage where I'm like I can't hit them right,
Speaker 1: can't hit them at all. I get an opportunity to
Speaker 1: fall apart, and it's so this stuff is like you
Speaker 1: don't you don't get over it. Like I mean, you
Speaker 1: get over it to some extent, but there's situations like
Speaker 1: you lose the farm and you gotta start over, or
Speaker 1: you go try that public land hunt you put yourself
Speaker 1: in a different situation, or you move, you know, to
Speaker 1: the up from southern Michigan and now you're like, this
Speaker 1: ain't the same world I grew up in, and now
Speaker 1: you have to start over and that pressure comes in
Speaker 1: and that stress and man, that slump is on you
Speaker 1: before you know it, and it sucks. I think it's
Speaker 1: just again perspective and mentality you because I truly I
Speaker 1: agree with you, and I truly believe everybody, if they're
Speaker 1: being honest with themselves and others, is going to go
Speaker 1: through that regardless of what their goals are, regardless of
Speaker 1: where they're hunting, regardless of what's happening, they're gonna find
Speaker 1: that slump. They're going to hit that. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just gonna happen if you do it long enough. And
Speaker 1: that's where it's like, I think, if if people can't
Speaker 1: understand that, or if they're being judgmental or ridiculing somebody
Speaker 1: as they haven't shot a buck yet or they haven't
Speaker 1: filled a tag this year or whatever, especially when they're
Speaker 1: kind of in the public view of the of the
Speaker 1: industry of like you know, they're they're creating some type
Speaker 1: of content or whatever, and it's like, you know, they
Speaker 1: get accustomed to this, this consistency. It's like if if
Speaker 1: they can't understand or respect the slump, if you will,
Speaker 1: they just haven't been doing it long enough, or they're
Speaker 1: just they're just being a jerk on on on social media.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like it's just I mean, because it's
Speaker 1: going to happen to them if it or if they're
Speaker 1: not even experiencing it right now. So yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's just the reality of it. It's just something that
Speaker 1: we have to face. I think it's an incredibly learned
Speaker 1: a good learning tool for us. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: that I as much fun as the great years are
Speaker 1: where you're filling tags every time you go and you know,
Speaker 1: you you hunt ten days and you fill three or
Speaker 1: four tags and it's like unbelievable. As fun and wonderful
Speaker 1: as that is, I learn way more from dear you know,
Speaker 1: the habitat how dear using the terrain, finding new spot, um,
Speaker 1: what you're doing within a certain you know, based on
Speaker 1: certain conditions or whatever. From those hard slump years where
Speaker 1: it's just a constant, grinding battle. I learned way more
Speaker 1: from those years than I do from the years where
Speaker 1: I feel a bunch of tags. That doesn't mean I
Speaker 1: don't want to you where I feel a bunch of tags,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, but reflecting back on it and
Speaker 1: even looking at it and just trying to keep that
Speaker 1: positive mindset where it's like, hey, this isn't all for nothing.
Speaker 1: Here where I'm I'm sharper than the sharper than the iron, right,
Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm making myself better because I'm struggling through
Speaker 1: this and there's something said for that. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: another way to do this too, if you if you
Speaker 1: find yourself out there, especially you know, maybe not if
Speaker 1: you're a beginner, but if you're if you're at one
Speaker 1: of those stages where you're like, I'm I need to
Speaker 1: level up on this somehow. I'm you know, this caliber
Speaker 1: buck or whatever. I want five dollars in the freezer
Speaker 1: at the end of the year instead of one, and
Speaker 1: you hit, you know, like you hit the wall with it.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I found totally by accident
Speaker 1: that really helps me sort of contextualize those moments is
Speaker 1: like taking my daughter's or taken like I take a
Speaker 1: lot of kids out or newbies turkey hunting, and man,
Speaker 1: you take it for granted, what you know, like when
Speaker 1: you when you walk out into the woods and you're scouting,
Speaker 1: you have a hell of a lot to draw on
Speaker 1: and you go, Okay, I see this, I've been here,
Speaker 1: I've done this like kind of you know, like I've
Speaker 1: been here, done this, like I know, I know how
Speaker 1: to get myself through this, but when you have to
Speaker 1: think about bringing somebody else through it, and its like man,
Speaker 1: it for me personally, it forces me to like I
Speaker 1: can't there's no like errors in my setup, like where
Speaker 1: do you put this blind? How do you brush it in?
Speaker 1: Like how the how's the sun gonna come in? Where's
Speaker 1: it gonna approach? Or you know, taking my daughter's deer hunting, like, man,
Speaker 1: I can't have a squeaky chair. I can't have I
Speaker 1: can't have mistakes because we're gonna make mistakes. So like
Speaker 1: if I allow something sloppy or if I if I'm
Speaker 1: like this is good enough, there's no way it's gonna
Speaker 1: bite us in the ass. And sometimes for me, just
Speaker 1: taking somebody else who doesn't know what they're doing is
Speaker 1: like it's it kind of just like recalibrates me and
Speaker 1: I go, Okay, like this is I needed to see
Speaker 1: this and to go through this and like understand, I
Speaker 1: don't have it this bad, this pity party that I've
Speaker 1: been having because I can't kill big Bucks. Times to
Speaker 1: freaking time to shut it down and move on, you know, yeah, exactly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it teaches me, like I always like doing that
Speaker 1: from that perspective to whether it be turkey hunter or
Speaker 1: even deer hunting, what it teaches me about public a
Speaker 1: lot is like whether I'm taking a youth or even
Speaker 1: even a buddy that doesn't hunt public a lot or
Speaker 1: hasn't like gone like, doesn't like doesn't you scouting as
Speaker 1: a as a major foundation of their hunting style? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and and all of a sudden, like that question
Speaker 1: why comes up right where it's like, hey, why, like
Speaker 1: why are you looking at this? Or why did you
Speaker 1: see this away? Why did we there was this great
Speaker 1: scraper rub and we kind of just walked right by it,
Speaker 1: like why did that happen? Like? And I'm like, because
Speaker 1: I take it like you. It's like you kind of
Speaker 1: bet you're just like you. You're either filing it away
Speaker 1: like subconsciously or like you kind of process it subconsciously
Speaker 1: and just kind of go right and buy it. And
Speaker 1: it's actually helped me kind of frame of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: these are important things and they are they do matter
Speaker 1: in certain situations and explaining it to somebody else or um,
Speaker 1: you know, and even it's caused me to even sharpen
Speaker 1: up on things that maybe I'll glaze over, or it
Speaker 1: might even lead to something really important or pivotal in
Speaker 1: a given spot that otherwise I just kind of glazed over.
Speaker 1: And yeah, having that reset moment where you're you're really
Speaker 1: paying attention to every detail and not missing that small stuff. Again,
Speaker 1: I've I've gone through those similar experiences and it it
Speaker 1: turned in very valuable when you're talking about looking at
Speaker 1: through the eyes of somebody else that maybe doesn't do
Speaker 1: it every day, And I think, I think the important
Speaker 1: lesson there, you know, if you're if you're on just
Speaker 1: a cold streak out there is there are just like
Speaker 1: so many different ways to address this, and you know,
Speaker 1: the industry sort of it doesn't it does a really
Speaker 1: good job of elevating people who sell that terminator mindset
Speaker 1: right like, this is all I do, that's all I
Speaker 1: care about, the all I think about White Tail seven.
Speaker 1: I got divorced over it, blah blah blah. And you know,
Speaker 1: there are you and I both know people who are
Speaker 1: actually like that. They're pretty freaking rare, and usually they're
Speaker 1: assholes in my opinion just personally they kind of seem
Speaker 1: to be. But that's not the way for most people
Speaker 1: to do this and enjoy it. Like, if you're if
Speaker 1: you're out there and you're struggling a little bit, finding
Speaker 1: a way to have more fun in the woods is
Speaker 1: way better than just being like I have to be
Speaker 1: so you know, dialed in and so like I gotta
Speaker 1: be scouting constantly every day, and I gotta be running
Speaker 1: five thousand trail cameras, I gotta be doing this. Like
Speaker 1: that might be the answer for like a very very
Speaker 1: small percentage of hunters out there, but I think for
Speaker 1: most people it's actually like that would hurt them a lot,
Speaker 1: like this image that we sell to them. Man, you
Speaker 1: you you said it a million times, and I totally
Speaker 1: agree with you. I've always agreed with this mindset. No
Speaker 1: one cares what you shoot. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: no one, No one cares. So do you want to
Speaker 1: be that guy? Do you want to be that guy
Speaker 1: with that mentality of like, oh, you know, I just
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have time for a girlfriend or
Speaker 1: a wife, and I don't have time for kids because
Speaker 1: I'm out there. Because all that's gonna end up doing
Speaker 1: is you're gonna be eighty years old in a dusty
Speaker 1: house with big deer mounts around you, which okay, cool,
Speaker 1: but you're by yourself, and like that's it? Like that
Speaker 1: is that really what you want to Like you're hunting
Speaker 1: legacy whatever that might be to be I mean, or
Speaker 1: is it like you know, deer camp with buddies and
Speaker 1: learning and spending time out there and doing like you said,
Speaker 1: it's like going on a pheasant hunt, going on a
Speaker 1: deer turkey And I'm just like, you're just out there
Speaker 1: having a great time and fill in your freezer and
Speaker 1: having fun. Like I mean, it's and again, everybody can
Speaker 1: hunt their own hunt and have their own definition of
Speaker 1: what successes and in the in the deer woods. But
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I just have never understood like
Speaker 1: I just I don't know that the macho nous of
Speaker 1: that of like I just got to kill the biggest
Speaker 1: and best and and and and and everything be damned
Speaker 1: where I'm just you know, I'll throw everything else to
Speaker 1: the wayside and lose my job and you know, get divorced.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: like what do you what do you say, like rabbitsle banlers,
Speaker 1: that's what we're We're not here in childhood cancer here,
Speaker 1: you know, I got into the couple that owns the
Speaker 1: motel I stay at when I hunt in southwestern Wisconsin sometimes.
Speaker 1: Her husband is a duck guide down there on the
Speaker 1: Mississippi River. And when I was down there muzzleloader hunt
Speaker 1: and they were kind of wrapping up. It was his
Speaker 1: last couple hunts whatever, and I was talking to the
Speaker 1: wife and she was telling me how they had had
Speaker 1: some people in. I don't I thought. She said they
Speaker 1: came up from Texas or somewhere. They keep traveled somewhere,
Speaker 1: and she said when they were checking into the motel,
Speaker 1: they were talking about how they always do guided hunts
Speaker 1: for ducks and they always know more than the guides.
Speaker 1: And she was like, they were like, you know, we
Speaker 1: we know how to do this, we know what a
Speaker 1: decoy and call better. And I was like, I was like, well, hey,
Speaker 1: if that was true, you wouldn't be hiring guides everywhere
Speaker 1: and and be you're you're like puffing your chest out
Speaker 1: because you're murdering birds, Like are we are? We really
Speaker 1: like that into it that we have to like elevate,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I get it, like
Speaker 1: it's a lifestyle, it's fun. But I just look at
Speaker 1: that and I go man, you're kind of delusional here
Speaker 1: like this, you should be out there because it's badass
Speaker 1: to work those mallards in and watch them circle and
Speaker 1: it's sure is fun to shoot him out of the sky,
Speaker 1: but it's not like, you know, we're not like working
Speaker 1: on AI here. We're not gonna we're not gonna save
Speaker 1: the world, you know, like we're taking these little former
Speaker 1: dinosaurs with tiny little brains who see you know, who
Speaker 1: they think are their buddies. They're just plastic pieces of
Speaker 1: ship in the water and they're like, hey, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go down there, and all of a sudden, these pricks
Speaker 1: jump out of a boat and shoot them, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like yeah, and well, and to your point, man,
Speaker 1: like I think there's something to be said there for
Speaker 1: like related to the slump thing, like if you're just
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're just so if you're just running
Speaker 1: into the brick wall so hard like this year or whatever,
Speaker 1: and you're just in this slump, like that's a really
Speaker 1: great point of perspective, is don't make them smarter than
Speaker 1: they are or or like they've got some crystal ball
Speaker 1: and they're all knowing and don't get me wrong, incredible
Speaker 1: instincts and they're they're intelligent, and they're just like unbelievably
Speaker 1: good at surviving in their element. But they have to eat,
Speaker 1: they have to sleep, they have to have water, like
Speaker 1: if you just think even in the realm of that,
Speaker 1: like you, you and I get asked all the time,
Speaker 1: and you know, I've had this conversation a lot about
Speaker 1: like if I'm on a trip somewhere I'm traveling, how
Speaker 1: do I find a big buck or like, how do
Speaker 1: I find that mature dear? And it's like, well, step
Speaker 1: one is find dear, like identify where deer are congregating
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, and then that's you understand that because
Speaker 1: nine times out of ten, you know or out of
Speaker 1: the rud it doesn't matter, like forget the phase like
Speaker 1: of whatever you know, prereadpost or whatever it is early season,
Speaker 1: late season, doesn't matter. If you find dear, you're you're
Speaker 1: you're like halfway there now now, depending on what your
Speaker 1: goals are for size and quality and age or whatever,
Speaker 1: and that all that will obviously change the spectrum completely.
Speaker 1: But finding dear could be the slot buster. You need
Speaker 1: is understanding where you're at and figuring out, Okay, I
Speaker 1: just need to go see deer. I need to find
Speaker 1: the freshest sign and understand why these deer are here
Speaker 1: and then go from there. Yeah, there's dude, there's such
Speaker 1: a good a good point. I want to break down
Speaker 1: in that because when you when we say learn like
Speaker 1: learn to find deer first, like learned, learned how to
Speaker 1: locate them, I think most people would listen to that
Speaker 1: and go, well, I know I'm around deer. There's rubs
Speaker 1: and scrapes and blah blah blah. It's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: no, no no, can you walk in there and set up
Speaker 1: and have a bunch of deer walk past you and
Speaker 1: bow range because you there's a there's a big difference there,
Speaker 1: you know. And this is so I talked about this
Speaker 1: all the time, but it's like it becomes so real
Speaker 1: when you elk hunt, when you when you go to
Speaker 1: that over the counter you did in Colorado and you're like,
Speaker 1: now I have this huge landscape and I need to
Speaker 1: get around them, and they're a low density animal and
Speaker 1: they're gonna be concentrated in a few spots. You just
Speaker 1: realize how worthless anything but the freshest sign actually is.
Speaker 1: And even then are they still there? Like and you know,
Speaker 1: we don't. We don't think about white tails that way
Speaker 1: because we're like, oh, white tails live here, and it's like, man,
Speaker 1: you probably don't own a whole section, right, Like you're
Speaker 1: probably not hunting that buck's entire home range or those
Speaker 1: deers like they might not live there or you might
Speaker 1: push them out real fast. Like, so when we say
Speaker 1: get on dear, it's not just like don't look around
Speaker 1: and be like, well, there's deer tracks in the mud,
Speaker 1: there's a rub over there, like okay, can you can
Speaker 1: you get an actual live dear to walk by you consistently?
Speaker 1: That's a big difference, huge, huge, and it can teach
Speaker 1: you so much about how they again you work you
Speaker 1: and then work that back right, so it's like that
Speaker 1: happens and then start asking like why is that dear there?
Speaker 1: Why are they moving in this like from this direction
Speaker 1: to this direction? And are they browsing as they go
Speaker 1: or they work like they're on like a destination where
Speaker 1: they're just kind of marching through or what what's their
Speaker 1: behavior where they and then they then you and then
Speaker 1: it's like okay, you take it, look at it from
Speaker 1: like a map perspective, really get on your scouting and
Speaker 1: then you start breaking down okay, like what if I
Speaker 1: move or or just physically boots on the ground scouting
Speaker 1: like you might have those deer come through, it might
Speaker 1: not be a deer you shoot, or maybe they're too
Speaker 1: far away or whatever, and then you start like working
Speaker 1: that back and trying to figure it out. Like to me,
Speaker 1: like that is how you a uncomplicate the situation of
Speaker 1: finding like a good buck or or something you want
Speaker 1: to shoot and be breaking yourself out of the slump.
Speaker 1: It's like just moving into that spot where Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: around deer. Now this isn't this isn't the spot, but
Speaker 1: I found the area and now I find need to
Speaker 1: find the spot within the spot, right, And it's like
Speaker 1: once you can start breaking it down that way, I
Speaker 1: mean to me, like I think that's you get you know,
Speaker 1: don't get all Mark Kenyon on it or like you're
Speaker 1: where you're charting numbers and like Parl, I'm just like, dude,
Speaker 1: we're uh. I was texted him the other day that
Speaker 1: was just like are you doing what are you doing?
Speaker 1: And He's just like, oh, I'm figuring this out. I'm
Speaker 1: figuring this out. Like okay, man, like you do your
Speaker 1: money and I'm just like loving it. And but anyway,
Speaker 1: like so we don't really to you know, and there
Speaker 1: well we could actually have a whole entire podcast about
Speaker 1: what's going on with Mark, but but we uh. But
Speaker 1: but finding that spot within the spot, working that back,
Speaker 1: like to me, those that's the kind of stuff that
Speaker 1: breaks them up. Like that's the stuff that you can
Speaker 1: you can then again, you're not forcefully trying to make
Speaker 1: something happen, but you're taking steps to work with the deer,
Speaker 1: right intend it's not trying to like ram your way
Speaker 1: into them. I think I think that can work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're you're not going through the motions, you're actually still
Speaker 1: trying to figure something out. Yeah for sure. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: that's it's so important, buddy. We are out of time. Uh,
Speaker 1: people can find your writing, you know, meat eat or
Speaker 1: slash Wire to hunt you. You're doing a bunch of
Speaker 1: articles for us. There. What else are you doing out there? Oh?
Speaker 1: I guess you can follow Instagram and Facebook. I don't
Speaker 1: post very much, but I'm trying to trying to. But
Speaker 1: you posted the picture of that big Iowa buck. I did.
Speaker 1: It was it was a little late, but I did.
Speaker 1: I did finally get something up there. I gotta do it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta do it. So yeah, I mean just Alex
Speaker 1: skills from me and you don't add Alex skills from Facebook, Instagram.
Speaker 1: And then like you said, I write, write a bunch
Speaker 1: for for me to hear you guys over there and
Speaker 1: love doing that. So that's the best place to find
Speaker 1: find the stuff. Awesome. Well, I appreciate it, buddy. Good
Speaker 1: luck with that baby that's coming up here. Thanks for everything, man,
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, buddy. That's it for this week, folks,
Speaker 1: be sure to tune in next week for more white
Speaker 1: tail goodness. This has been the Wired to Hunt podcast
Speaker 1: and I'm your guest host Tony Peterson. As always, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening, and if you're looking for
Speaker 1: more white tail content, be sure to check out the
Speaker 1: meat eator dot com slash wired to see a pile
Speaker 1: of new articles each week by Mark Alex, who's the
Speaker 1: guest on this show, myself, and a whole slew of
Speaker 1: white tail addicts, Or you can head on over to
Speaker 1: the wire to Hunt YouTube channel to view the weekly
Speaker 1: content we dropped