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Speaker 1: At least.

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Speaker 2: He's The Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson on

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Speaker 2: your twenty four to seven home of the Black and

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Speaker 2: Gold Steelers Nation Radio.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Drive. I am Dale Lollie here with

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Speaker 3: the Matt Williamson as we are every day Monday through

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Speaker 3: Friday from four to six pm. And Matt not all

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Speaker 3: that long after the show ended. Yesterday we get news

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Speaker 3: that the Rams are going to try to trade Cooper Cup.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I would be interested.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Steelers one of the favorites to potentially acquire

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Speaker 3: Cooper Cup.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can like check in Vegas and there it's

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Speaker 1: the Bengals and Steelers are the lowest odds. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We were kind of going back and forth yesterday or

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Speaker 3: last night about, you know, what we thought it might

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Speaker 3: take to acquire a Cooper Cup. And to be quite honest,

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to.

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Speaker 1: Be much beauty of it. I wouldn't offer a lot,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's going to be very similar to

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Speaker 1: the Alan Robinson trade with the Rams, which sort of

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Speaker 1: worked out, sort of didn't. I think Cup's a better

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Speaker 1: player than Robinson was at that point. But in terms

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Speaker 1: of Cups also making more money. That's the thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think he equally needs to go. From

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Speaker 1: a Rams perspective, the Coup is clearly the one. He

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Speaker 1: really came on even stronger in the second year. And

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Speaker 1: I think Cup has value, you know. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know he's older and he's expensive, but that's why you

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Speaker 1: get him cheap.

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Speaker 3: I also think you know you're gonna whoever trades for him,

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Speaker 3: if that happens, the Rams are gonna end up having

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Speaker 3: to eat some of that salary.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine. I would imagine, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise you would just wait himut and say no, you

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Speaker 3: gotta cut him.

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Speaker 1: I said, they're probably on the cusp of cutting him. Yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: So I think he's like a seventh round pick or

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Speaker 1: two sevens or not many to get him.

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Speaker 3: For twelve million or fourteen somewhere in that ranging. And

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Speaker 3: that might sound like a lot, which is that's why

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Speaker 3: you get him so cheap. That's why he's not a

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Speaker 3: third round pick. But when you start looking at the

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Speaker 3: free agent widers, receivers who are currently scheduled to be

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Speaker 3: free agentcy T Higgins, Chris Godwin, Amari Cooper, Stefan Diggs,

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Speaker 3: Marquise Brown, DeAndre Hopkins, Deontay Johnson, Keenan Allen, Darius Slayton,

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Speaker 3: Elijah Moore, and Mike Williams, Nelson Aguilar. I don't need

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Speaker 3: to go much farther down than that.

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Speaker 1: No, right, be a great list in twenty twenty twos, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. Where does where.

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Speaker 3: Does Cupp come in among that group?

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Speaker 1: Head of Hopkins, Yeah, I agree him versus Cooper's Cooper

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Speaker 1: is a tough one because he did nothing with the Bills,

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Speaker 1: probably in that neighborhood. Not the top two, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: but it'd be in contention. I don't think the Steelers

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Speaker 1: would be into Hollywood Brown, but it might have Brown three.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what to think of Stefan Diggs either. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the injury to the O, yeah, coming off an ACL, but.

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Speaker 1: He'd be right in the mix with the tier two guys. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean even as a declining player. I mean he's

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Speaker 1: also he's had some injuries, and he's had some expensive

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Speaker 1: and he's not as crisp as he used to be,

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Speaker 1: or as sharp or as explosive, and he's had a

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Speaker 1: lot of wear and tear. But part of it's because

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Speaker 1: of his style. Of play. He's such a good blocker,

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Speaker 1: and he's a big, physical, you know, slot guy that

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Speaker 1: can also play outside. I think there's a value there.

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Speaker 1: I mean I do too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's also a value there in adding

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Speaker 3: an adult to the room, exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: You know, a guy who has been you know, a

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Speaker 1: consummate professional.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a guy's who's had one hundred catch seasons, a

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Speaker 3: guy who's been the Crown. Yeah, one hundred and forty

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Speaker 3: five catches and almost two thousand yards of sixteen touchdowns

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one. You know, even you look at

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Speaker 3: his twenty twenty two, seventy five catches in nine games.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean pour it up and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: hurt right. Even last year, I said, what was last

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Speaker 1: year's like, I mean he played in twelve games, started

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Speaker 1: eleven of them, had one hundred targets, sixty seven catches

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Speaker 1: for seven hundred and ten yards, and six touchdowns. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean on pace for like eleven hundred dish, you know,

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Speaker 1: something like that if he didn't played the ball. So no,

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Speaker 1: I think he's still good. I mean I don't think

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Speaker 1: he's one of the top ten receivers in the league anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's probably he's definitely better than Steel's number two last year.

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Speaker 3: And he's different. He's different for sure too. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: then Austin's sure, Yeah, he's different than what you have.

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Speaker 3: He's a chain mover and you really didn't have that guy.

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Speaker 1: No, And I do think he would be Alan Robinson

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Speaker 1: plus as a blocker. I think some of did really well.

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Speaker 3: I think some of that would would kind of rub

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Speaker 3: off on the other guys too.

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Speaker 1: You would out right, I mean, the way he prepares

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Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: When you watch Ben Scronic play. Yeah, Ben Scronic played

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Speaker 3: for the Rams behind Cooper Cup. He was asked to

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Speaker 3: do a lot of the same stuff that Cooper Cup did.

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Speaker 3: That's why Ben Scronic blocks as well.

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Speaker 1: As he does. Yeah, I mean, is a great pick

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Speaker 1: that up from them.

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Speaker 3: So if you're going to go draft one of these guys,

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Speaker 3: let's say it is a Jack Betch in the second

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Speaker 3: round or something like that. He's also very similar who's

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Speaker 3: just similar type receiver. Get him a guy he can

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Speaker 3: learn from.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, or the.

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Speaker 3: Kid from from Stanford or whoever.

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Speaker 1: I mean, As of now, it's Pickens, Austin, and Wilson.

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Speaker 1: It is your receiver room, and they're gonna add two

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Speaker 1: of some sort, and I would think one's a veteran,

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Speaker 1: one's a rookie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they have three, You may have six.

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Speaker 1: You might add three. You might add three, and if

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Speaker 1: Pickens leaves, you probably will add three. You know. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's a move. You gotta

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Speaker 1: at least kick around that. Steelers don't have a six

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Speaker 1: round pick. I don't think i'd give up a five.

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Speaker 1: But if it's both sevens or six next year or

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Speaker 1: something like that.

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Speaker 3: A conditional yeah, seven now, but if if he plays

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Speaker 3: in all, if he plays in sixteen games, it's turns

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Speaker 3: into a six next year.

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Speaker 1: Even if you eat all the money. I think he's

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Speaker 1: making twelve and a half this year, there's some bonus

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Speaker 1: money there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got a he's got a seven point five

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Speaker 3: million dollars roster bonus. Okay, that's due, So that's gonna

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Speaker 3: bump that up even more.

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Speaker 1: I mean he's almost a thirty million dollar cap to

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Speaker 1: the Rams. Yeah, he's got it on the and they

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Speaker 1: picked up some of the Robinson money.

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Speaker 3: March fifteenth, he gets a seven point five million dollar

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Speaker 3: roster bonus, and everything becomes fully guaranteed.

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Speaker 1: So he's definitely not gonna be a ram on March fifteenth. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's gonna happen in the next month. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he'll either get cut or he'll be and you

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Speaker 3: could wait it out, but then you then you also

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Speaker 3: get into bidding with other teams for him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, and you still might. I mean there's

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Speaker 1: probably several teams that would give you a seventh round

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Speaker 1: pick for him right now. I don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: the Steelers should be in the thick of it, and

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Speaker 1: Vegas knows a thing or two. The fact that they're

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Speaker 1: the odds on favorite with the Bengals.

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Speaker 3: I think I think they're Vegas is guessing on that

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Speaker 3: stuff because they know that the Steelers have been in

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Speaker 3: the market for basically every wide receiver has been available,

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Speaker 3: so and it's not like they have inside information.

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Speaker 1: It's not like they pay way more than the second

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Speaker 1: best team by the way, either. Yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: they're number one, but that doesn't mean they're tied with

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Speaker 1: the Bengals, I mean plus five hundred.

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Speaker 3: Or whatever, because the Beals are expected to lose t

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Speaker 3: Higgins right right, right, right.

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Speaker 1: But there's a bunch of six hundreds too. I think

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Speaker 1: they want you to bet you know, obviously right, But

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Speaker 1: I do think the Steelers should be in it and

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Speaker 1: would be crazy not to call about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you at least have those conversations and say, ok,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there were conversations at mid season when there

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Speaker 3: was rumors that he would be available at the trade deadline.

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Speaker 1: Then they went on a winning streak. So maybe you guys,

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Speaker 1: weren't it.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you had some of those conversations already, or maybe

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Speaker 3: you know, if you're the Steelers, do you wait for example,

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Speaker 3: a Christian Kirk to get cut loose?

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Speaker 1: You could do both? You could, I mean you could

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Speaker 1: do both, or DeVante Adams did cut loose? Is the prize?

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Speaker 1: I mean in terms of guys that could get cuts.

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Speaker 1: A lot of trade candidates too, Dk Metcalf, tyreek Hill,

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of guys. I think there'd be a

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Speaker 1: lot of receiver movement this year and some of its

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Speaker 1: trade because the UFA market isn't great as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: and the draft classes a little down compared to previous years.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's not a Harrison Neighbors at the top.

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Speaker 1: Or get him Aconkey on day two? You know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, but it's a good class.

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Speaker 3: Would you if you're the Steelers, since I just brought

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Speaker 3: him up and there were reports that there was a

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Speaker 3: trade in place for Christian Kirk at mid season and

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Speaker 3: then he got hurt, right right, would you reopen that

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Speaker 3: and say, hey, we're still interested, you know, if you're

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Speaker 3: going to cut him, if you're going to move on from.

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Speaker 1: Him, we'll give you. We'll give you a seven for

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Speaker 1: him this can you know? Yeah, I don't remember what

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Speaker 1: his injury was and when it was. I was right

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Speaker 1: at the deadline. He was right the deadline, like halfway

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Speaker 1: through the year. Let'd say, was it a catastrophic achilles

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Speaker 1: or something? I broken collar bones? Okay, he'll be fine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's fine, he's fine. I'd try rather a Cup, but

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Speaker 1: I think they're close. Kirk's got to be a little younger, right,

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Speaker 1: He's actually several years younger. Yeah, I like both. Both

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Speaker 1: options would be interesting to me. Kirk's also a professional

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Speaker 1: and plays hard and inside outside capabilities tough. We'll block

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Cups bigger, Cups had a better career.

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Speaker 1: I have to study both their tapes to say who's better.

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Speaker 1: Right a second, I mean, neither one. Kirk was not

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Speaker 1: flourishing statistically, but neither was anyone in the Jags offense

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Speaker 1: he was doing.

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Speaker 3: He had some games, you know, there was a stretch

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Speaker 3: there before the from he had eight catches against the Bills,

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Speaker 3: he had seven catches against the Texans the next week,

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Speaker 3: then four for eighty eight against the Colts, three for

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Speaker 3: thirty nine against Chicago, and then kind of that's when

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Speaker 3: the trade talks kind of started and Brian Thomas started

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Speaker 3: to emerge, really emerged.

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Speaker 1: But I mean he's between Thomas and Ingram, and they

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Speaker 1: like Parker Washington, they could easily draft another one too.

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Speaker 1: I would think Kirk could be had pretty cheap.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you're talking about he's gonna be twenty

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Speaker 3: nine next year as opposed to thirty two.

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Speaker 1: What's he listed like five to eleven? Yeah, okay, that's

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Speaker 1: pretty good above I'm guessing pretty round ballpark numbers. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I knew he was a little under six feet.

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Speaker 3: And the other difference is is his contract. I mean

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Speaker 3: he signed it was a four year, seventy two million

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Speaker 3: dollars deal in Jackson. His base contract this year is

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Speaker 3: fifteen to five.

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Speaker 1: That's all you would know that's all you go, which

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Speaker 1: is again you'd get him for like a seventh round pick. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: both of but would have interest and I wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: done right, you know. That doesn't like solve your problems,

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Speaker 1: but it's a nice step in the right director. It

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Speaker 1: makes it a lot of situation a lot better. And

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Speaker 1: if you are intent on trading pickings, which I don't

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Speaker 1: know if they are or not, sure, makes it easier. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at least you've got a guy in the building. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you could still compete on the UFA market, you know,

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Speaker 1: or turn pickings into picks. You know. No, I think

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Speaker 1: all these moves make a ton of sense, got war Kirk.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's some other guys who will be that

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Speaker 3: you mentioned DeVante Adams. But I just think to me,

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Speaker 3: a trade makes a little bit more sense as opposed

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Speaker 3: to a waiting a late round pick trade. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: because we've done how many mock drafts have we done

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Speaker 3: now already? Quite in those late on draft picks were like,

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Speaker 3: all right, just give me something somebody. Yeah, it's going

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Speaker 3: to play special teams or something like that, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and the Rams are presumably the Jags just

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Speaker 1: want something. Yeah, I mean, I don't think people are

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Speaker 1: gonna be like, I'll give you a five. No, I'll

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Speaker 1: give you four. No, I'll give you a three. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's what happened. That's and I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of times.

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Speaker 3: Fans in the media, like both kind of overestimate what

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Speaker 3: the trade market is going to be big time for

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Speaker 3: some guy.

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Speaker 1: Especially wide receivers. Yeah, they're always on the move. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he's definitely worth a two. Maybe not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even like the Fields trade was less than everybody thought.

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Speaker 3: You didn't get You didn't get a two for Antonio Brown.

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Speaker 1: Right, right? I mean draft picks are worth Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: just draft picks are worth more than people realize. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: draft picks are gold. I mean, I gotta I threw

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Speaker 1: the cup thing out on Twitter and I got a

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Speaker 1: lot of responses. Why do you want to get older

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Speaker 1: just one player? I mean, I mean some ideas to

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Speaker 1: get better. I'm trying to get better. I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: the same guys complaining that the receiver room is not

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Speaker 1: good enough and they don't get any you know.

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Speaker 3: And this goes to what we were talking about yesterday

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Speaker 3: with people looking at the NFL in the wrong fashion.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to long term.

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Speaker 3: What's short term and what's long term. Yeah, players now

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Speaker 3: are signed to two year deals. Yeah, it's cup up

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Speaker 3: after this year. He's up after twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that'd be basically a two year twenty five

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Speaker 1: twenty six. I'm sure you could cut him after twenty five. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you're not. You didn't pay any signing bones. You

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Speaker 1: don't know. You can easily get out of that.

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Speaker 3: But and that's the other thing that makes a trade

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Speaker 3: much more attractive than going out and actually signing a guy.

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Speaker 3: If you trade for the guy, you didn't pay any

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Speaker 3: of his signing bones.

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Speaker 1: Somebody else did all that.

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Speaker 3: You're just paying the base salary. Now, if you want

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Speaker 3: to tear that up and start over with the guy, okay.

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Speaker 1: You have that right. You have that right to do that.

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Speaker 1: Do the Vonte Adams right, that could happen. Rogers could

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Speaker 1: come back and maybe he doesn't get cut. Yeah, right now,

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Speaker 1: he's a thirty million dollar cap it. Wait, it just

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Speaker 1: gives you more options. Yeah, and we talked to us yesterday.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't hurt your comp game, no, not right, right,

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Speaker 1: it's just okay, throw away seventh round pick.

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Speaker 3: Fine, maybe you know, if he leaves at the end

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Speaker 3: of the year or whatever it may be, you get

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Speaker 3: the comp pick back.

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Speaker 1: Potentially, you're basically just swapping out cap space for a

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Speaker 1: seventh round pick. You know, we have more cap space

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Speaker 1: than you. We have a bigger need there than you.

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Speaker 1: Let's go, you know, yeah, and get better and you

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Speaker 1: get better, right, you know, this is the game.

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Speaker 3: This is a dance that the Steelers did all last

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Speaker 3: season trying to trying to acquire someone of this of

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Speaker 3: this ilk, whether it be Cooper Cup, whether it be

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Speaker 3: Christian Kirk, whether it be anybody.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I use the name was throwing out a

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Speaker 1: million times. Of course, you know, it's just a starting

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Speaker 1: receiver trying to make your team better. Yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: might have a ripple effect. I mean again if teaching

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Speaker 1: the younger pups in that room, and maybe a draft

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Speaker 1: pick as well. No, I think it's something that would

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Speaker 1: make a ton of sense. Yeah. So, but there's probably

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Speaker 1: ten other teams that think the same.

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Speaker 3: That's the problem is, you know, And that's why you

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Speaker 3: don't want to necessarily let these guys get cut, because

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Speaker 3: now you are in a bidding war and they get

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Speaker 3: to choose where they go. Yeah, and even though the

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Speaker 3: money might be the same, they might look at and go, well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I want to I want to stay in the

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Speaker 3: West Coast if I'm Cooper Cup.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to go out to right the Raiders.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go to the Raiders instead because I'm

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Speaker 3: going to stay on this and you know, I've always

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Speaker 3: played out here.

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Speaker 1: Whereas if you.

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Speaker 3: Trade for the guy, you got him, you got him

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Speaker 3: unless he decides to retire.

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Speaker 1: Now, again, I think it's a very good move, and

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Speaker 1: it'd be step one of of building a better receiver

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Speaker 1: room and you're already I think would I don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody would argue that Pickens Cup, Wilson Austin is better

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Speaker 1: than what you played with last year. Yeah. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming you can stay on the field. Then Wilson is

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Speaker 1: We'll see.

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Speaker 3: I mean, but he's in the You're still going to

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Speaker 3: draft one, so you know, at at least another right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: even if Cup plays the first seven games of the

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Speaker 3: season and gets hurt, well, at least you get the

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Speaker 3: seven games out of them.

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Speaker 1: And while you're your rookie to uh, you could still

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Speaker 1: sign DeVante Adams or even a Slaton some or Kirk

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Speaker 1: I mean you can make a cup to these type

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Speaker 1: of moves.

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Speaker 3: You've got the roster space or that you can the

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Speaker 3: cap space.

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Speaker 1: Holder to do this stuff. Yeah yeah, I mean that's

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Speaker 1: that's the appeal is we got a lot of space.

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Speaker 1: We can handle a contract we don't love, but we

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Speaker 1: can handle it. But it's easy to get out of too.

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Speaker 3: That's the other that's the other beauty of it, because

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Speaker 3: you don't know anything long term with this.

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Speaker 1: And some of these dudes probably not in cups case,

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Speaker 1: but he could come to camp and be terrible and

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Speaker 1: you can cut them too. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, Okay, he gave up a seventh

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Speaker 3: round pick, so be it.

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Speaker 1: That'll be one right. Yeah, it's just it is what

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, i mean his camp hit for the for

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Speaker 3: the Rams this year is twenty nine point seven million dollars.

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Speaker 1: He's got to go. He's got to go.

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Speaker 3: That's what it's the same as last year. That's why

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Speaker 3: they're looking to move him because like, we can't can't

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Speaker 3: pay him ten point eight percent of our salary cap.

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Speaker 1: No, and he's still a good player, but he's not

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Speaker 1: the numbers, not that player, and he's older and they

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Speaker 1: know his injury history and all that stuff too, which

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Speaker 1: isn't extensive. Well, it's sort of extensive, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: they know what what he probably has left, and it's

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Speaker 1: probably it's not thirty million dollars worth, but it might be.

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Speaker 1: I can't think of too many receivers who would be

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Speaker 1: thirty million. There's like five that might be what Higgins

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Speaker 1: gets on the open market, maybe, you know.

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Speaker 3: So for them, it's a simple matter of math for them, like, look,

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Speaker 3: we can either have Cooper Cup on the roster or

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Speaker 3: we can have these five guys, these five players.

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Speaker 1: Sure, that's because three starters on defense and a backup

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Speaker 1: O lineman or something, right exactly, and the draft one.

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Speaker 3: Whereas if you're just you know, if you're looking at

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Speaker 3: this through a Steelers lene, it's okay if we if

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Speaker 3: they pick up ten of it, and if you're the Rams,

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Speaker 3: why wouldn't you it's ten million versus twenty nine or right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and you're getting a pick out of it.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Well it's either that or we cut them and

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Speaker 1: we get nothing, all right, Yeah, yeah, no, I think

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Speaker 1: it makes all sense of the world. It's similar to

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Speaker 1: the Allen Robinson Rams situation. But I think he's better

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Speaker 1: and wrung above him, you know. Yeah. Yeah, So anyways,

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Speaker 1: that's uh interesting to say.

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Speaker 3: It is something else that was interesting today, Matt, was

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Speaker 3: the Jerry dulex story in the Post Gazette. We will

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Speaker 3: talk about that when we come back. He is Matt Williamson.

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Speaker 3: I am Dale Lolly. You're listening to the Drive here

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Speaker 3: on the Steelers Audio Network, Matt, and I'll be back

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Speaker 3: with more right after this.

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Speaker 2: This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson

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Speaker 2: on your twenty four to seven home of the Black

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Speaker 2: and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.

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Speaker 1: And we are back. I am Dale Lolly.

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Speaker 3: He is the Matt Williamson and this is the Drive

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Speaker 3: and Matt I mentioned I referenced the Jerry duel piece

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Speaker 3: in the Post Gazette today or on the Post Caazette website.

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Speaker 3: I don't see the paper anymore, but do you see

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Speaker 3: the website every once in a while.

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Speaker 1: And friend of the show, Jerry. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And what Jerry reported is a little bit different than

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Speaker 3: what was previously report and this kind of jobs more

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Speaker 3: in line the initial reports after the season. And I

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Speaker 3: believe it came from Mark A. Bully O, Russell Wilson

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Speaker 3: and Arthur Smith just didn't get along. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that wasn't the case. But they did see things differently

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Speaker 3: in terms of what the Steelers offense should look like.

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Speaker 3: In regards to Russell Wilson wanted to be able to

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Speaker 3: run more audibles and Arthur Smith, apparently this, according to

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Speaker 3: the Jerry's report, said no, we're not gonna We're not

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Speaker 3: gonna audible And to you know, I just I just

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Speaker 3: edited your offensive stat package last night. The Steelers ran

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Speaker 3: into loaded boxes a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, too much. I don't understand it from a coaching perspective,

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you. And now I'll be the

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Speaker 1: first to say, in the thirty two rooms, how many

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Speaker 1: of them are heavily audibled or none or only in

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Speaker 1: this situation. But I thought the beauty of Russell Wilson

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Speaker 1: compared to fields was getting out of bad place, right,

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Speaker 1: you know I mean?

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Speaker 3: And the story also went on to say that, and

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Speaker 3: I noted this after that game, the game in Cincinnati

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Speaker 3: when Wilson threw for you know, get youian yard right.

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Speaker 3: If you go back and watch that tape, you see

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Speaker 3: a lot of Russell Wilson directing traffic right, right, moving

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Speaker 3: guys around, and and he's always been good at changing

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Speaker 3: place and apparently this according to the duel like piece.

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Speaker 3: After that game, Arthur Smith said, no, we're not going

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Speaker 3: to do that anymore.

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Speaker 1: Which I would love to hear the Smith side of it,

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Speaker 1: because he probably has a great argument. You know that

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Speaker 1: he didn't do it for no reason. Right, we have

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Speaker 1: a really young old line and they don't they block

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Speaker 1: wrong when we go to audibles. What I don't receivers

434
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,919
Speaker 1: don't run the right route. I'm just making stuff off

435
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 1: as I go. Reasons right, right, right, And I can

436
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,119
Speaker 1: understand they didn't let picket or Duck or you know,

437
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 1: Fields or younger dudes. But if you gonna get Wilson,

438
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 1: you got to use them from the neck up in

439
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: every way possible. In my opinion, I'll just figure out

440
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 1: a way to make it work.

441
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 3: I wonder if some of it was because of who

442
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 3: they were then playing and in what they were doing

443
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,639
Speaker 3: without those guys, because if you think about it, that

444
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 3: also coincided with when they lost George Pickens. Oh, I

445
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 3: thought you meant the opponent well, to a certain degreement,

446
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 3: who were ones who they were playing more difficult opponents?

447
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 3: They didn't have George Pickens for those three games. Yeah,

448
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 3: and I wonder if he just said, you know what

449
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 3: we got, we got to play this more close to

450
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,479
Speaker 3: the vest. We don't have our most explosive weapon, our

451
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 3: best offensive weapon.

452
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 1: But is that even playing it closer to the vest?

453
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 1: I mean to me, it's just not putting yourself in

454
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: the best situations to win. And running in the loaded

455
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: boxes isn't great, but you can have success doing it too,

456
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you're back, You're gonna have one

457
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: un block defender and that's the running backs guy. I mean,

458
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: if it's two unblocked defenders, best of luck, and obviously

459
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 1: you can't blow a block then either, you know, Yeah,

460
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: it's just your room for air is a lot less.

461
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I mean, I would think, frankly,

462
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: if I'm Wilson and the Steelers are talking to me

463
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: right now, I'd like to iron this out right now.

464
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that you can talk about.

465
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 3: And I'm sure that was something that was brought up

466
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 3: in his exit interview with Mike Tomlin, like, look, we

467
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 3: had success when I was changing plays, changing plays, which

468
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 3: one of the reasons you brought me And the thing

469
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 3: that makes me think of this is if you rewatch

470
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 3: the last Hard Knocks and the last one that featured

471
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 3: the Steelers, the playoff game against the Ravens. Yes, it's

472
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 3: fourteen nothing at the half twenty one, and they show

473
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 3: Tomlin and Russell Wilson on the sideline right before the

474
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 3: Steelers go out on offense, and Tomlin's just said, Hey,

475
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 3: we gotta go, we got to attack now, we got

476
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 3: to attack now. And I just it just makes me

477
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 3: wonder if why, and I can't I remember thinking this

478
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 3: and that, why aren't they attacking down the field more?

479
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: Why are aren't they doing some of the things that

480
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 3: got them to this.

481
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 1: Point that Wilson's good at. Yeah?

482
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Because are they afraid that, you know, there's

483
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 3: going to be an interception? Are they afraid that you're

484
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 3: going to You can't play it too close to the

485
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 3: vest in those situations, you have to play loose. And

486
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 3: if that's what your quarterback does, well let him play.

487
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't understand that. I don't know if that

488
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: comes from Tomlin, does it come from Smith? And that's

489
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 1: what we did the right right? Is there more to

490
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: the story than we don't know? I'm sure. I'm sure

491
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: there is. Is it because your centers are rookie? I

492
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. And again I can certainly

493
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 1: understand it.

494
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 3: Where at that point right well, that we know that

495
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: our we we've got two guys that are banged up

496
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 3: and they're they're not going to be able to hold

497
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 3: the block things of that nature.

498
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: But I mean, if you see blitz coming and you

499
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: stick with the long developing play, you're begging for problems,

500
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, obviously protections have hot routes built in,

501
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: but if you see something coming and you can get

502
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: out of it, or boy, this is going to turn

503
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: into cover two and I get a cover two beater

504
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: in the back of my head, my back pocket, use it,

505
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: especially with a veteran guy like that. Yeah, he's not dumb.

506
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: I mean, he's not inexperienced. I mean, these are his

507
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 1: best trait.

508
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 3: These are the reasons that you signed him and brought

509
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 3: him in because we want the experienced quarterback. We won't

510
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: be able to do these things. And then if you

511
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 3: didn't let him do those things. Yes, I can understand

512
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 3: where there will be some friction there.

513
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: Right right between the two. Don't keep me you know,

514
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: harnessed here, you know, because I know how I know

515
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: I'm running into a bad play. I mean, that has

516
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: to be very frustrating for a quarterback.

517
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I also, you know again, I would love

518
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 3: to hear the explanation.

519
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: For that, and maybe it was a one time thing

520
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: or in this situation we can't audible or third downs

521
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: only or I don't know, but I do think it's

522
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: noteworthy and certainly needs to be ironed out. And that

523
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that the two men don't like each other, no,

524
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, or any of that stuff. But that's this

525
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: is a competitive business and things don't go well. Hey,

526
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: I know that this isn't this could be better.

527
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 3: You know, right, And you know, ultimately, as the quarterback,

528
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 3: you're the guy who's out there. You're the guy, as

529
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 3: it turns out, who's being blamed for the Steelers' failure

530
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: down the stretch. I'm looking at the comments on our

531
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 3: YouTube channel today and I can't tell you how many

532
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 3: well they lost in the last five games with rush

533
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 3: he stinks, Yeah, of course, of course, yeah, because it

534
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 3: was all his fault, because he gave up three hundred

535
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 3: rushing yards in the playoffs.

536
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: He couldn't have tackle Derek Henry or whatever too. That

537
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: was on him. Yeah, Now he played better before that

538
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: than after, And it would be a much easier decision.

539
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: If he played like he played that Bengals game. Every

540
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: time he walked strapped on a helmet, I'd probably be

541
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: signed as we speak.

542
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 3: But you know, he did show that capabil This is

543
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 3: what people forget. He showed that capability.

544
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there was a nice stretch there before things

545
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: went bad for the whole team. Yeah, without question. But

546
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 1: I don't know how and I don't know how much

547
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: of course. I mean we're talking in gray area here.

548
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: You can't keep him handcuffed though in terms of you know,

549
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: getting out of plays and things like that. Yeah, you

550
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: gotta let him play the game, right, I mean they

551
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: didn't do it the band, No.

552
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is in fact, if anything, everybody the complaint

553
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 3: was always worth. When they when they won, it was

554
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 3: because Ben called the play. When they didn't win, it

555
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 3: is because they stopped coordinator. They don't know what they're

556
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: doing right, right, right, So when they had any kind

557
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 3: of success, and hey, Ben was the first one to see.

558
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, I drew that up in the dirt, all right, man,

559
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: and frankly, and I think people know this. I mean, well,

560
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: I hope they do. You and I are close to

561
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: the team, and we have a better inclination than ninety

562
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: nine percent of the people listening, but we still don't know,

563
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, there's a lot that goes on

564
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, or situational stuff, or you know, it's

565
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: a group project, or it's it's rarely just one guy's fault.

566
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 3: The thing about audibles is this, anytime the quarterback audibles

567
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: unless you got Ben saying he drew something up in

568
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 3: the dirt, But the quarterback is audible audibling to plays

569
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: that he and the offensive coordinator have already talked about.

570
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And even drawing something up in the dirt

571
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: is funny to be. It's not run down to the

572
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: toyota and run a button hook, you know, like us

573
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: in the street. I mean it's hey, you're that comeback

574
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: one step shorter because they're playing they're playing it a

575
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: little bit more. Or run your out route a little.

576
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 3: Deeper, I mean a little bit more depth of the

577
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: sideline there, so I have a little more room to

578
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 3: make that throw exactly.

579
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: Or boy, they're really sitting on this, you know, I

580
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: mean that's drawing it up in the third It's not

581
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: pull the stick out and you go here and then

582
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: you put out there, you go left. Yeah, yeah, the

583
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: big turn around, right. No, I mean it's not like

584
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: us in the playground, you know.

585
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so's it's just a little bit different there.

586
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: But and I know it's deep into the season, but

587
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: it's still first year coach with first year quarterback in

588
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: a first year system. Second year would be better, yeah,

589
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: I promise you. I mean maybe they don't gain more

590
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: yards or win more games, but no matter who the

591
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,239
Speaker 1: quarterbacks were, if it's Brady, no matter what, I mean,

592
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: Brady had a lot of issues now I think about it,

593
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: Brady and Brady and Arians weren't best buds that first

594
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: year in Tampa. And I think they had a super

595
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: late bye week they did, and they and they just

596
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: right you take it because I mean that that Patriots

597
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: system he grew up in is way different than Arians stuff. Right,

598
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: They were struggling, They were struggling, and I think they

599
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: just totally handed the keys to Brady and do what

600
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,239
Speaker 1: you do. Yeah, and they want the Super Bowl, yeah, right,

601
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: do what you do, do what you do best. And

602
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: I think that the first year clash isn't unusual or

603
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: just communication issues or whatever.

604
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: I've been at this long enough to know that. I mean,

605
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 3: they're the only offensive coordinator that Ben Roethlisberger didn't have

606
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: clashes with was arians.

607
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: Okay, that was it.

608
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody else there were there were always some kind

609
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: of issue here there bubble.

610
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: How could you not?

611
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you you're a wild stallion. You just want

612
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 3: to go and the coaches say no, or you know,

613
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: in early in Ben's career, he always balked at the

614
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: game manager tag that was put on him early in

615
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 3: He's just a game manager.

616
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: Sure, he's more than that, more than that, but it's

617
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: actually a compliment. Mahomes is turned into a game manager,

618
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: Allen's turned into a game manager. Brady's the best game

619
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: manager ever. Yeah, that's a compliment. You know. It doesn't

620
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: sound like it's like possession receiver.

621
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could get deep right. It was the hines

622
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 3: Ward thing. Hines Ware, You're just a possession.

623
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: Receiver, No right right chain mover, you know, keenan Allen

624
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,959
Speaker 1: or a type guy. Yeah, no, that's a skill too.

625
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to be pigeonholed into one thing.

626
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: And these guys.

627
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 3: I have yet to meet an NFL player who is

628
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 3: not prideful.

629
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: About what they do. Otherwise they wouldn't be there. Otherwise

630
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: they wouldn't make it differ. I mean, unless you're the

631
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: most talented human being on the planet. And those guys

632
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: don't last long. Yeah, you know, no, absolutely gotta you

633
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: gotta have. The coaches are too. Yeah.

634
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: You got to have that drive, You got to have

635
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 3: that fire.

636
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and just put it hypothetical. You're Ben or

637
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: Wilson or anyone. Brady doesn't matter. Coach calls into play.

638
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: The protection is garbage. This out outside linebacker that no

639
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: one picked up, drills you in the spine and you

640
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: get up and you're not so happy about it, and

641
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: the ball comes out, and you knew what was going

642
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: to happen, right, and you knew that there was a

643
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: chance it was gonna happen. Why do we call that protection?

644
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: They scoop and score and you're a bum. Yeah, you

645
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: know right, And that stuff happens every week. Yeah. Yeah.

646
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: So anyways, let's get to another break. He is the

647
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 3: Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lolly. This is the drive

648
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: on the Steelers Audio Network. Matt and I'll be back

649
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 3: with more right after this.

650
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: At least he's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt

651
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: Williamson on your twenty four to seven home of the

652
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: Black and Gold in Steelers Nation Radio.

653
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: Welcome back.

654
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: I am Dale Lolly. He is the Matt Williamson and

655
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: this is the Drive on the Steelers Audio Network and

656
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: Matt Kevin Patra on the NFL dot Com as listen

657
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: the one well, it's more than one move, but things

658
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 3: that every team in the off season. And I saw

659
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 3: the thirty or the third, the two teams in the

660
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 3: in the Ciphilian case, he aren't cleared. So the thirty

661
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: other teams things that they need to attack this offseason.

662
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: And his number one goal for the Steelers is find

663
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: some run stoppers.

664
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: There's a lot of directions you could go. That's a

665
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: good one. And it's funny. I had the I saw

666
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: the numbers on there, the Cam Hayward numbers, and I

667
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: had had those from weeks ago. I was curious where

668
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: he got him from or whatever you might.

669
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 3: Have got him from from that might have got him

670
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: Fromteelers dot com because you wrote it.

671
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: I wrote it. Yeah, yeah, I mean the numbers with

672
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: Cam are really good versa run, but I mean he's

673
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: in the game, teams don't run as much, and when

674
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: he's out, the numbers are pretty bad just in the

675
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: yard for Kerry situation. And I also did to keep

676
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: talking numbers. The Steelers defense was right at the top

677
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: of a league in interior runs. So teams are attacking

678
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: you up the middle.

679
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 3: And let your team speed at linebacker as it's.

680
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: Part of it. And they're also not downhill hammers and

681
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: less Roberts Is in the game, you know, they're more

682
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: run and hit guys. And yes, nose tackle to me

683
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: is we talked about this a lot yesterday and for weeks.

684
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: It would sure help to have a big time nose

685
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: tackle to free those guys up. But it's also not

686
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: the only problem. You know, Like if you would have

687
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: thrown Casey Hantla, that's probably not true. He was prett dark.

688
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: But if you're just thrown Joe blow nose tackle on

689
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: this team, maybe the run defense would be better. But

690
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: I don't know that it would have been solved. You know,

691
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: the best in the league all of a sudden. Yeah,

692
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: but I think it's not a bad place to start on.

693
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: But it also I mean, you gave up three point

694
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 3: seven yards per carry when Hayward was the field, Yeah, which.

695
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: Is great, among the best in the league. Yeah yeah, yeah,

696
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: So it does show plays a lot, but it just

697
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: realizes how reliant you are on your great player.

698
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: And let's be honest too, with some of those carries

699
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 3: for when Hayward's on the field, how many of those

700
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 3: are in nickel and dime situations when there's only two

701
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 3: big guys on the field and you still only give

702
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: up three points starts third.

703
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: And eight and there to draw six or you know,

704
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: we could get into a lot of numbers. And it's

705
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: funny because I really started digging into my defensive stat

706
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: pack today. Their numbers against rushing quarterbacks are insanely good.

707
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: I mean, especially as scramblers you know called pass plays,

708
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: so they give up very few yardage, the best in

709
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: the league by a wide margin on cald pass scrambles.

710
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 3: Well, even in the game in this in the playoff

711
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 3: game against Lamar, they gave up some yards to Lamar.

712
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: But it wasn't big yards, right, it was four yards,

713
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: it was three yards, it was five yards, and now

714
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 3: they were backbreaking yards.

715
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: They were costly, yeah.

716
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 3: But it wasn't like they gave up. Oh, he just

717
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: he just busted off a forty yard or on I

718
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 3: mean it was I can't remember what the carry he had,

719
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: like sixty yards, but it was on like fourteen or

720
00:32:59,040 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 3: fifteen carries.

721
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

722
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the other thing too is Watt and Hayward

723
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: are awesome players. I mean, I don't think you guys

724
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: have to tune in for that one, you know, And

725
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: you cited the rush numbers when Cam's on the field

726
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: versus not, but TJ played almost all of his snaps

727
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: to the quarterbacks, right, you know, the defense is left

728
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: and their numbers are a lot less or a lot

729
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: worse when teams go off left tackle than off right tackle.

730
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: And we cite pro football folks, because he was amazing

731
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: against the run, like he like set Pro football focused

732
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: run defense edge records, you know, for grades and things

733
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: like that. So you have to he was down year.

734
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: He's no good, right, Yeah, But you have two big

735
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: time players there, and I'm sure people are like, well,

736
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: you can't be that relying on those guys. Well that's

737
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: why they make twenty million a year or whatever too,

738
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, I mean they're that kind of difference makers.

739
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean, Oguin, Joby, Benton, high Smith all stink,

740
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: but they're to blame more than Cam. And what I

741
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: mean as is every I mean there's a case for

742
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: pass rush and everything too, you know, but I think

743
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: that's reasonably fixable too. Yeah, you know, I mean I

744
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: don't know that Benton's a nose.

745
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that he is either. I think

746
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 3: I think he would be better serve playing defensive end.

747
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 3: And you know, when we've done our mock drafts, we

748
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: you know, we take that nose third, fourth, yeah, yeah,

749
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 3: round somewhere in there, and you can get good players.

750
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 3: And remember Javon Hargrave there's a third round draft pick.

751
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and he wasn't a true true nose, not

752
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 1: in the Steed Campden, no traditional sense.

753
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 3: No.

754
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: And I like her Big a ton. I think Herbig

755
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: is a wonderful player. But I think he can be

756
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: run at too. Yeah, you know, I mean I think

757
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: people will target him if he's on the field on

758
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: first and ten. He's got to prove that he can

759
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: take on left tackles and are not Washington type.

760
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why you know the people, well, you just

761
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 3: trade TJ or trade high Smith because you get Herbig.

762
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: There's more more to the game than just rushing the passers.

763
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean everyone knows just ranks of weaknesses. Yeah,

764
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: you can't hit a curveball. You see a lot of cars.

765
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, her Big is still

766
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 3: a two hundred and forty pounds speedball off the edge.

767
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: And that had the factor in in the Preston Smith

768
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: trade too. That's not who Preston Smith is. He's the

769
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: big lock you know, Lockout strong pour player. You know,

770
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: I think run defense isn't that far from being fixed, though, No,

771
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it is.

772
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 3: I mean, you ran into a team if if you

773
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 3: took the you can't do this. But if you took

774
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 3: the two games out against the Ravens, who were the

775
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 3: best running team in football.

776
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and really hitting their stride.

777
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 3: You shut Saquon Barkley down. Yeah yeah, I mean their

778
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 3: their run defense outside of those two games was actually really.

779
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: Really good. There was two miserable moments. They were a

780
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: really bad game. Playoffs. Obviously, you gave up probably the

781
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: two biggest games of a year.

782
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, you gave up almost you know five, You give

783
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: up five hundred and fifty rushing yards in those two games.

784
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: Essentially, you know that that's not excusing it at all,

785
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: But that's an awesome run game. I mean when you

786
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: factor in Lamar and Henry and the height of their powers,

787
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a special thing they got going on.

788
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: I mean that's you played twice a year and sometimes three.

789
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 3: Nobody was complaining about the run defense. When they give

790
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 3: up sixty nine yards to the Chiefs. The next week,

791
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: they give up sixty eight yards to the Bengals. Week

792
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 3: after that, I mean it was eighty nine to the

793
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 3: to the Falcons. Pretty good run game, yeah yeah, yeah,

794
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 3: sixty four to the Broncos, sixty one to the Chargers

795
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: at that time where the number one, that's all they

796
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 3: were doing. It was fifty seven to the Raiders, fifty

797
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: four to the Jets player their line was healthy, sixty

798
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: to the Commanders and Daniels Jane Daniels, pretty good runner.

799
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 3: Eighty five yards to the Browns, ninety three to the Bengals.

800
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: I mean, they had some really good run games in there,

801
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: and even some of the ones that you know where

802
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 3: they did give up one hundred. It was one hundred

803
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 3: and nine to the Cowboys, one hundred and four to

804
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 3: the to the Browns the second second time around one

805
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty one to the Eagles in that game,

806
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 3: that's fifty yards under what's what Philadelphia averages? You know,

807
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 3: you had some good run stopping game you didn't have

808
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 3: for whatever reason, Baltimore schemed things up and you didn't.

809
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 3: You couldn't stop it. But they had two legitimate thousand

810
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 3: yard rushers in their Hall of Fame runners in their primes,

811
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 3: A two thousand yard rusher and one thousand yard rusher

812
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 3: in their backfield.

813
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, essentially one of them is the best rushing

814
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: quarterback ever, you know, and one of them they're both

815
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: going to Hall of Fame. Is based a lot off

816
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: there to carry the.

817
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 3: Ball based on knowing that you have to play them

818
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 3: at least twice a year, and last year was three times.

819
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 3: You better figure out how to stop that.

820
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: Oh, as do the Bengals and Browns, and you know,

821
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: that's a that's a nightmare going forward.

822
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 3: They held one hundred and twenty four yards the first

823
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 3: time around on the ground.

824
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Henry wasn't cashing them in that one. No, Yeah,

825
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: the first time around, I was gonna say, oh, this

826
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: sounds like an excuse but it really isn't. I mean,

827
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: their run defense was not good enough in these instances, clearly, clearly,

828
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: But I also think some fatigues had into and when

829
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: you start playing three games in eleven days and then

830
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: you're playing good team after a good team after good team,

831
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: I think that got the better of them.

832
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 3: Now.

833
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: I do think it as a team kind of the

834
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: polar opposite of the Bengals how they start the season.

835
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: Tomlin needs to take a step back and be like,

836
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: why aren't we finishing as strong as we're starting? You know,

837
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer, and me you may not

838
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: know the answer, and there might not be an answer,

839
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: but I do think that's something you need to look at.

840
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: And time of possessions is so big for this team,

841
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: and time of possession is a team stat, you know.

842
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously getting off the field in the run

843
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: game would sure help. But don't average four yards of

844
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: carry either. I mean, I can't stop talking about the

845
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: voluminous running and all the stuff we've been talking about lately.

846
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 3: Boost a little bit better, right, You better average somewhere

847
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 3: around four and a half yards of kid.

848
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: Can't be at the botto, can't be at the bottom.

849
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: You can't know otherwise you your head into the table exactly.

850
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: So there's it's somewhat of a team stat too. But yes,

851
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: the run defense has to get better. And if I

852
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: was Kevin Patrack picking one thing to fix, I might

853
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: take the run game. But the run defense was most

854
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: notable as a national analyst at the worst times.

855
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I can see why he did it, absolutely,

856
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 3: But let's get to a break that's going to do

857
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 3: it for our number one of the drive here on

858
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: the Steelers Audio Network, Matt Now, I'll be back with

859
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: our number two right after this