1 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're 2 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military news and straight 3 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: talk with the guys and the community. Hello, we're gonna everyone, 4 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Software Radio, Software Radio on time, on Target. 5 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: I'm your host this afternoon, Steve Alstruia. We have a 6 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: great show lined up for you today. We're gonna be 7 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: talking with the people from the nine eleven Memorial or Museum. 8 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: They have recently co produced a documentary with the History 9 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: Channel titled Revealed The Hunt for Bien and it's based 10 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: on the museum special exhibition of the exact same name, 11 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: and they were granted unprecedented access to the military and 12 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: intelligence officials who worked on the Bin Laden you know 13 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: search for over a decade and some of whom you know, 14 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: their identities still aren't revealed to the public, as well 15 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: as several of the Seal team members who took part 16 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: in this on the ground. This documentary is gonna premiere 17 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: on May two and will be available for streaming afterwards. 18 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: I've seen the trailer. If you haven't watched the trailer yet, 19 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: I guarantee you it's gonna get your interest. It looks 20 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: extremely well done and joining us to talk about this 21 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: is Clifford Shannon. He's the executive vice president and the 22 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: deputy director from Museum Programs of the nine o eleven Museum, 23 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: and we want to welcome him to the podcast. Clifford, 24 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: thanks for taking the time with us this afternoon. We 25 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Steve. I'm really happy 26 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: to be here and thank you for your interest in 27 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: this and your service. Oh, we're We're very interested in this. 28 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: I think this is something you know, UM, a lot 29 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: of Americans don't understand what goes on the day to 30 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: day when you know, we have people in harm's will 31 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan and Iraq, but when when you talk about 32 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden in nine eleven, I don't think anyone 33 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: doesn't understand what that's all about. No, it's true. And 34 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, going back to really the earliest days of 35 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: the museum and when we were planning for it, because 36 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: I've worked on this, uh, when it was just a 37 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: project at the beginning of the museum project. Came on 38 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: as a consultant in May two thousand and five, UM, 39 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: and you know, we had to really pay a lot 40 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: of attention as we were planning out the narrative of 41 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: the museum, the whole history of nine eleven. You know, 42 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: how do you portray the terrorists? How do you include 43 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: them in a story like this. Our place is certainly 44 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: focused on education, but it's also focused on commemorating the 45 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: attacks and honoring the victims and those marking the service 46 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: of those who came to help, and so combining those 47 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: things in the museum itself post certain challenges, and we 48 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: had a long haul to go to get to the 49 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: point of feeling like after testing it and really running 50 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: through a lot of conversations, you know, how to get 51 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: the perpetrators into the story. And ben Laden of course 52 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: was the leader of al Qaeda, was the one who 53 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: wanted to target the United States in the homeland. The 54 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: earlier attacks before nine eleven, at the US embassies in 55 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: at the the USS coal and Yemen in two thousand. 56 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: I mean, these were ways of leading up to the 57 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: nine eleven attack, testing our resolved, testing our response, and 58 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: so um, you know it was you know, not really 59 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: possible as we thought about this to tell the story 60 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: without him, but clearly, um, this is lead perpetrator. And 61 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: of course, when Operation Neptune Spear occurred in May two 62 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: thousand and eleven. Well, that was the end of this 63 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: very very significant chapter of the broader nine eleven story. 64 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: It's not the end of al Qaeda, but the end 65 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: of bin Laden's life was obviously a chapter that we 66 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: wanted to pursue in more detail, first with the exhibition 67 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: and then with the film, which runs Sunday, May second, 68 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: at eight o'clock on the History Channel eight o'clock Eastern 69 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: and Pacific times, and then inside in the other time zones. 70 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: It's an hour off that. Now, how did you come 71 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: to be involved with the nine eleven Memorial and museum? So? UM, 72 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, I I've worked prior to this in a 73 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: lot of different areas. I worked in as a journalist. 74 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: I worked in the Mayor's office in New York and 75 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: UM in the nineteen nineties, I was a program officer 76 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: at the Rockefeller Foundation, which is a global, globally orient 77 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: did foundation and UM really in the early nineties, it 78 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: was the president of the Foundation then who was interested 79 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: in exploring this issue that wasn't getting a lot of 80 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: attention at the time, and that was I mean, essentially 81 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: the Islamic Revival as it was beginning to stir in 82 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,559 Speaker 1: different countries around the world, and I became the person 83 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: whose job it was to go look at these places, 84 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: try to you know, talk to people who understood what 85 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: was going on there. And so, you know, over a decade, 86 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: I had really built up this experience, these networks and 87 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: so on, and so as the you know, fast forward 88 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: to the planning efforts after nine eleven, it was an 89 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: area in which I had, um, you know, some experience 90 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: that was useful at that time thinking about, you know, 91 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: how to think of the problem really and so I 92 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: had also done some work on how society's memorialized mass violence. Uh. 93 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: And so those two things, which pre nine eleven were 94 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: very separate, after Ninal eleven sort of came together in 95 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: this very strange way. Now was that part of Legacy project. 96 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: So Legacy Project was, after I left Robe Feller, sort 97 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: of a way to dig more deeply into this notion 98 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: of historical memory. Uh, and you know how it plays 99 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: in contemporary society. So you know, it's it's the nine 100 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: eleven Memorial Museum then became you know, for me, almost 101 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: a test case of seeing how that operates. And so, 102 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: you know, it was very interested in what was going 103 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: on from the beginning and when I had the opportunity 104 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: to get involved, it was really you know something that 105 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: you know everybody familiar quote from will William Faulkner who wrote, 106 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, the past isn't dead, it isn't even past, 107 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: and um, you know we can see that even now 108 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: in America and many of our contemporary debates. You don't 109 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: simply turn the page in the history book and leave 110 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 1: it in the past. And I was always very interested 111 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,559 Speaker 1: in how these issues of conflict or violence or whatever 112 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: it was manifest themselves in current day society. And so 113 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, the nine eleven example was in real time, 114 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: uh is trying to see how America assimilated if it 115 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: could this terrible injury, and what the responses would be, 116 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: and those responses could come in you know, many many 117 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: different ways, military, cultural, religious, um. You know, in terms 118 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: of civiliberties, I mean, on and on the debates we've 119 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: had in America over the last twenty years are you know, 120 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: in some ways all coming out of that terrible, terrible 121 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: day on September eleventh, two thousand one. You know, it's 122 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: funny because you know, when you talk to Americans, especially 123 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: some that might be a little bit older than than others. 124 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: You can ask people three questions and usually if they 125 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: were alive during that time, they can always answer that. 126 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: And as for older Americans, and I was just barely 127 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: old enough to remember that, where were you the day 128 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: Kennedy was shot? Absolutely? Yeah, where were you when the 129 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: man first landed on the moon? And I remember, you know, 130 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: glued to my parents television said at that time? And 131 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,559 Speaker 1: then where were you on nine eleven? Were you living 132 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: in New York City at the time. Yeah, I'm a 133 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: I'm a native New Yorker, born and bred, still live 134 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn where I was born. Um, and so my 135 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: story is not particularly dramatic. I was at home that 136 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: morning and trying to follow it, you know, initially, just 137 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: getting ready to drive into the city. I was bringing 138 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: somewhat for a medical appointment. And I heard about the 139 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: first plane. They were staying on the radio, you know, 140 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: it's just a small plane or whatever. And I was 141 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: in the car actually just about to drive across the 142 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: Brooklyn Bridge when the second plane hit the second tower, 143 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: the South Tower, And you know, I was looking ahead, 144 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: but people lining the sidewalk I heard them just scream 145 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: as as that flight when hit the South tower, and 146 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: of course, the police were pulling in front of the 147 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: bridge and not allowing anybody to go, so it just 148 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: basically turned around, went home, and I spent the day, 149 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: like really anybody else, just watching TV. But even though 150 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: the event was right across the river from my house, yeah, 151 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: that's uh, I mean, it was. It was shocking at 152 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: the time because you know, we're used to seeing bad 153 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: things happened to other people, but not so much. You know, 154 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: inside the United States, we've had our share, but nothing 155 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: like this ever before, hopefully never again. And you know, 156 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: it was an absolute shock. And I remember I had 157 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: recently had gotten out of the military and I was 158 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: working for a civilian company and my boss said, hey, 159 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: he called me in his office, come look at this. 160 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: And you know, the first news reports were coming aboard 161 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: about the first plane hit in the World Trades Center, 162 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: and I told him it has to be terrorism. On 163 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: a bright, beautiful sunny day in in New York City, 164 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: some pilots just not gonna lose his way and hit 165 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: the middle of the World's Trade Center. And he was 166 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: kind of poo pooing it at the time. He was like, no, 167 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: there's no way. And then we were sitting there and 168 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: of course all works stopped and everyone was crowding around 169 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: his desk, and then the second plane hit, and then 170 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: I don't think there was any doubt in anyone's mind 171 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: at that point. Yeah, I know that, that's absolutely it. 172 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: And of course you you were right to see it 173 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: the way you did, though not everybody was aware of 174 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: the threat until seventeen minutes later. I mean, you know 175 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: the precise moment when that when that picture changed. Um, 176 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: and so you know, I'm sure you felt it, uh, 177 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: you know, with your background, but um, you know, everybody 178 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: wanted to figure out a way to do something to help. Um, 179 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: it was just this you know moment where the country 180 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: was under attack, and you think about it. I mean 181 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: a KaiA was, you know, as a small terrorist group basically, 182 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: and the estimates were for a couple of hundred thousand dollars. 183 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: They put this plan together and did something to us 184 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: that none of our enemies at wartime had managed to 185 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: do over the history of this country, going back of 186 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: course to the the War of twelves. So you know, 187 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: just an amazing, amazing set of events led to their 188 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: ability to just accomplished this, and they saw it as 189 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: a real accomplishment and a feat. I don't think they 190 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: realized it would you bring us into um Afghanistan at 191 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: the time. But you know, this is uh just remarkable 192 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: story of a remarkable day in the twenty years since. 193 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: So um explain to our listeners or tell us a 194 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: little bit about the museum and the memorial itself for 195 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: those who haven't had a chance, including myself to visit 196 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: it yet. So I'm I'm happy to to do that. 197 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: So you know, the original World Trade Center was a 198 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: sixteen acre site and for the redevelopment post nine eleven, 199 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: roughly eight acres were put aside, the central eight acres 200 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: of the site for a memorial which opened on the 201 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: tenth anniversary of nine eleven, which is the two pools 202 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: about an acre square filling the footprints of the North 203 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: and South towers of the World Trade Center. Uh, those 204 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: two waterfalls with the names of all the victims in 205 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: sized around them. So that was the the memorial that 206 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: opened ten years after the anniversary of the attack, ten 207 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: years the ten year anniversary attack, and then in May 208 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen, the museum, which is almost entirely underground. 209 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: It's a hundred and ten thousand square feet which people, 210 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: don't you realize because the entrance to the museum isn't 211 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: as large as you would assume that size museum would have. 212 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: The bulk of that square footage is at what we 213 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: know as the bedrock level, that's seven stories below ground, 214 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: under the pools, where the original construction of the World 215 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: Trade Center began, and some of the elements of that 216 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: original construction, so some of the original building elements are 217 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: sort of central to the design of the museum and 218 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: they are preserved in the museum. So you know, a 219 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: visitor coming to the museum will have this vast space 220 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: open up in front of them, um looking down into 221 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: it and then walking through it. You know, when we 222 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: talk to someone about an underground museum, they think of 223 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: these small, dark, cramped spaces, and nothing could be further 224 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: from the truth in terms of what the experience of 225 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: our museum is. And within the museum, we have two 226 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: main permanent exhibitions. The first, and I think you know, 227 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: the central one of all, is what we refer to 228 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: as our Memorial exhibition, which is set a space devoted 229 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: you know, to the memory of those victims, with with 230 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: portraits and profiles of the two thousand two thousand, nine 231 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: seventy seven victims of the nine eleven attacks, and of 232 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: the six victims of the truck bombing of the World 233 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: Trade Center, the first attack on the World Trade Centers 234 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: a two thousand three victims. And it's a very solemn 235 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: but very moving exhibition area. And then we have a 236 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: large historical exhibition which tells the story of the event, 237 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: the things that led to the event and the consequences. 238 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: And so that's uh, you know, that's an extended a 239 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: visit are a part of your visit to the museum. 240 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: And then of course we have a special exhibition gallery 241 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: where we've rotated exhibitions over the years, and in November 242 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, we opened, uh, this special exhibition revealed 243 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: the Hunt for Bin Laden. It's open again to the public. 244 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: We had to keep it closed for a bit longer 245 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: for COVID reasons. The museum has been opened again, um 246 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: since last September. But um, you know, now the exhibition itself, 247 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: which has media pieces, which has some wonderful object loans 248 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: from some of the individuals involved, some of the intelligence 249 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: agencies involved, and to me, the centerpiece loan um is 250 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: the very famous model that the National ga Special Intelligence 251 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: Agency built. It's four ft by four fit foot. It's 252 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: it's the model of the bin Laden Compound before they 253 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: knew it was the bin laden compound. And that model 254 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: was brought to the White House to brief the President. 255 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: It was used by the Seals to plan how they 256 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: would conduct the raid, and then of course it became 257 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: the model for a full scale model of the compound, 258 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: which was built so the Seals could run through and 259 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: drill on how they were actually on the ground going 260 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: to carry out the mission. So when we got permission 261 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: from U. N g A to borrow that, and you 262 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: have to realize it's it's I would venture to say, 263 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: maybe the proudest object that they have in their entire 264 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: institutional history, because it normally is located in a special 265 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: setting just outside the Director's office. So clearly anybody coming 266 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: to see the director first gets to see that model. 267 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: Um you know, when we were given the permission to 268 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: borrow that, I felt like we had been given the 269 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: permission from the Crown to borrow the Crown Jewels, if 270 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, it really really cemented in my mind that 271 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: you know, this was going to take us in um 272 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: A wonderfully, you know, comprehensive direction in terms of how 273 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: we could tell the story, and we use images of 274 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: the model, we use other imagery that n g A 275 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: released to us from overhead views of the compound and 276 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: so on in the film itself. Yea, before we get 277 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: into that, I just wanted to jump back a little 278 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: bit and talk about there was, you know, different exhibitions 279 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: in the museum and memorial and uh, like I said, 280 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: I haven't been there, but I've looked at it online 281 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: and I think one of the most moving exhibitions is 282 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: the photographs of all of the victims. And without having 283 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: been there, I can already tell it's that has to 284 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: be one of the probably the most poignant parts of 285 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: anyone's visit, because I remember I visited the Holocaust Museum 286 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: in Jerusalem many years ago, and you know, that's when 287 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: it really strikes somebody the scope of everything that's involved 288 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: in you talk about, you know, you know, seventy three 289 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: people who were killed. There are seventy seven people who 290 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: were killed there, but it doesn't really strike home until 291 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: you see all the photographs. And I remember the same 292 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: thing going through. They had as many photographs as they could, 293 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: you know, bring up at the time of the Holocaust Museum, 294 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: and that is a very moving part of everything. You know, 295 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more I I UM. It's 296 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: so we have in that memorial exhibition there are basically 297 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: two concentric squares and the outer square all the walls 298 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: are covered with photos of that that number of victims, 299 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: and um. Of course, you go into that exhibition and 300 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: you would like to be able to look at all 301 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: of them and pay them individual respect, but it's pretty 302 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,959 Speaker 1: clear you're not able to do that. It's it's too overwhelming. 303 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: And so that really reinforces what the nature of the 304 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: crime was, which was a mass murder, and the other 305 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: thing about it, I mean on a certain age, but 306 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: it's striking to me just how young so many of 307 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: those people were, at the early stages of their lives, 308 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: of their careers, of making families together with spouses. It's 309 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: really overwhelming. And then the one last element is you know, 310 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: of the two thousand and seventy seven people, they came 311 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: from more than ninety countries, and you know there were 312 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: people on planes or visitors from overseas, but many of 313 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: them were immigrants of the country who you know, were 314 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: making their way. And of course others were from long 315 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,239 Speaker 1: established American families, doesn't really matter. But you look at 316 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: the wall and you see just the extraordinary range of humanity. 317 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: And I say that because you know, this was an 318 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: attack on the United States. This was something of course 319 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: we felt, probably most severely in New York because of 320 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: the scale of what happened here, but the outflow of 321 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: emotion and solidarity from around the world, it was really 322 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: this really really striking sense of you know, what America was, 323 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: what it represented, what these individual people who would come 324 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: here to make their lives, you know, the symbolism of 325 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: them for people around the world. And I'll never forget 326 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: speak to a Turkish friend, um, who you know, has 327 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: always lived in Turkey, you know, not Americans visited here, 328 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: loves it here. But and she said to me, you know, 329 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: I've lost my American dream. The idea that you know, 330 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: this special place and what it represents could be assaulted 331 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: this way. Um. It resonated for so many people, regardless 332 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: of where they were. Yeah, and you know, it's one 333 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: of the things that you know, we say a lot, 334 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: but it truly was. We talked about crimes against humanity, 335 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: and like you said, over ninety countries were represented there. 336 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: So that's it, truly was so absolutely absolutely. But um, 337 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: we're talking with Clifford Channon here from the nine eleven 338 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: Memorial and Museum, and now we're going to get into 339 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: the special. I know you don't want to give too 340 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: much away about the special and and I gotta try 341 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: to balance asking you about it without you know, me 342 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 1: pushing for you to give too much away. But yeah, 343 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: I'm very intrigued to hear about you know, how you 344 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: guys came about working with the History Channel on this, 345 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: and obviously there had to have been a lot of 346 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: bureaucracy and details that had to be worked up. No, 347 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: it's it's you know, the project itself, which initially was 348 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: just focused on the exhibition. It took more than five 349 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: years to do. And um, you know, I don't think 350 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: I have to sort of make the case to anybody 351 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: here that you know, it made perfect sense for the 352 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: nine eleven Museum to tell this story. It really is 353 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: about the persistence of the United States in going after 354 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: the man who was most responsible for nine eleven. So 355 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, I I but you know that said, the 356 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: real question then became to us, well, how do we 357 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: do this because technically speaking then and even now, the 358 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: mission was classified in the sense that there was no 359 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: real incentive for anybody within the bureaucratic command structure of 360 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: the military of the intelligence community to sort of just 361 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: start releasing things to the public. So everything that would 362 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: ultimately wind up in the exhibition and the film was 363 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: unknown to us when we started doing the work to 364 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: put the exhibition together. So that raised a really interesting question, 365 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: how do you curate an exhibition when you don't know 366 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: what kind of materials could be available to show in 367 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: the exhibition. Now, I'll back up a little bit, because 368 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: there's no question in my mind that we were able 369 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: to succeed at this first and foremost because we are 370 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: the nine eleven Museum, and I mean something very specific 371 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: by that. Even before the museum opened, even before the 372 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 1: memorial was ready, we would get requests for military, law enforcement, 373 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 1: intelligence groups. We want to come and visit, we want 374 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: to pay our respect, and so we would accommodate these 375 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: requests as best we could, whether it was a construction 376 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: site or whether. Up until this day, we do formal 377 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: programs for all of these agencies, and it's a special 378 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: visit for the agency's obviously when they're mixing with the public, 379 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: that's fine, but they you know, it's an auditorium program 380 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: for them. We're now at the means a visit to 381 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: the museum is now a formal part of the training 382 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: for all new FBI agents and analysts at Quantico. My 383 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: point is we had developed these relationships with um the 384 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: national security community over years, and my conclusion is, first off, 385 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: they realized that their mission today, back then and still today, 386 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: was completely tied up with the event of nine eleven, 387 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: and people were making many, many sacrifices these last twenty 388 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: years because of nine eleven. So my sense is they 389 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: looked at how we presented the nine eleven story. They 390 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: respected the way we went about it, and I think 391 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: it gave them a level of confidence to say, well, 392 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: this is how they handled the not eleven story, which 393 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: is so important to us. Maybe we could consider how 394 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: to cooperate with them on telling this other story, the 395 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: story of none of the bin Laden hunt and the mission. 396 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: And so we had some relationships with an intelligence community 397 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: in particular. We began developing them and we began to say, look, 398 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: here's what our plan is. We don't know what there is, 399 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: we don't know who could be available to tell us 400 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: about what there is or tell us the story of 401 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: how this was done. But you know, we had many 402 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: many initial meetings where I remember this very very well. 403 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's a very funny memory in my mind. 404 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: We would sit in a room. This happened many times. 405 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: We'd sit in a room, we get we get the meeting, 406 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: which is already something. We get the meeting, and we'd 407 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: be sitting a couple of us with you know, some 408 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: number of people from an intelligence agency, and we'd say, well, 409 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: this is what we're doing. We're looking for the kind 410 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: of thing that could make this point, for example, the 411 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: kind of thing that would show just how extensive the 412 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: intelligence sweep by special forces and special operators during their 413 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: raids in Afghanistan, what that would look like. And inevitably, 414 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: you could see the people from the agency kind of 415 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: looking at each other and smiling and sort of you 416 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: could see the eyes communicating, and they wouldn't say anything 417 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: in front of us, because you know, everything we were 418 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: asking for was still classified, but at least we gave 419 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: him a track, and sometime days or weeks or whatever 420 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: it was later, they'd come back to us and say, well, 421 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, we sort of could give you something like 422 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: this and they describe it, and of course we loved 423 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: everything they describe. They thought it was just kind of 424 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: stuff on a shelf somewhere, but we were very, very 425 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: happy to have it. And it was really through that process, 426 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: which I must say in a couple of cases in particular, Um, 427 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: there were people inside the agency's who made it their cause, 428 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: or so it seems from the outside, their cause, to 429 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: take this idea and push it through the internal bureaucracy. 430 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: I don't think we would have gotten through some of 431 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: these bureaucracies if there hadn't been someone inside who was 432 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: following it, who knew how the bureaucracy worked and who 433 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: could push in the right ways, because all we could 434 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: do was ask and say, gee, what do you think 435 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: this is going to be done? Because we had nothing 436 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: to say about whatever the considerations were that made it possible. 437 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: And like so much else these folks do, I can't 438 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: acknowledge them, um publicly. I've more than once acknowledged them directly. 439 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: But that was part of the success. That there were 440 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: people inside who trusted us and who believed the story 441 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: needed to be told, and that got us objects that 442 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: were alone to the exhibition and some photos used in 443 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: the film, but it also got us interviews with key 444 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: people on the intelligence side who were involved for years 445 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: in the hunt and who were there when that first 446 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: breakthrough moment came and they could describe that to us. 447 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: And because those folks are still on active duty, it 448 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: was number one, just an extraordinary gesture by their home 449 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: agency to allow them to speak to us. But you know, 450 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: the agreement was they could not be visible on screen 451 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: for all the obvious reasons and so um, some of 452 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: them are just voices and some of them are shadowed 453 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: figures in the film. Yeah, you know, it's uh, it 454 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: was very interesting because I went through, you know, the 455 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: the digital version of this. Obviously we haven't seen the 456 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: film yet, it hasn't been released to anyone, but going 457 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: through the digital, you know version of this, some of 458 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: the intelligence people giving there you know, appraisal of things, 459 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: and it has to be really satisfying for some of 460 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: those people who spent up to ten years tracking Bin 461 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: Laden after you know, we originally went into Afghanistan and 462 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: like October of you know, two thousand one, they finally 463 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: kind of nailed him down. In August of two thousand 464 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: and ten when they finally kind of tracked him down 465 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: and listening to those people, and then you have Leon Panetta, 466 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: the um former director of the CIA that at that 467 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: time talking about the big picture, and even had you know, 468 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: President Obama with his speech at the end, kind of 469 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: ties it all in together, doesn't It's incredible And and 470 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: you know what we realized we made the exhibition is 471 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: we had done by then so many interviews and had 472 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: so much great stuff that it just couldn't be shown 473 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: in the exhibition. And so that really gave us the 474 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: push to make a documentary film out of this, and 475 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: one of the things we were able to do. And 476 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: I finished the last interview for this film a week 477 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: before the COVID shutdowns, so we were just doing this 478 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: all the way up to the end. We did get 479 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: access on the military side. Two the key planners, the 480 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: military planners of the mission, so the folks, one officer 481 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: in particular, and then the people he brought in who 482 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: Adam mcgraven turned to when you know, he told the President, 483 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: we can do this, but I've got to come back 484 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: to you and tell you how we're going to do this, 485 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: because I have to speak to the people who will 486 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: actually be doing it. I mean, those are the folks 487 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: who for the first time are telling the story of 488 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: how you go about doing this? How do you figure 489 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: out what what the risks are of flying a d 490 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: sixty nine miles into a sovereign nation which is not 491 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: expecting you and carrying out a military operation. This is 492 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: a country that's supposed to be our ally But you 493 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: know that's a complicated question. But um, you know, to 494 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: get the first person voice of those folks, and then 495 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: we added, um, some of the voices of the pilots 496 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: talking about, you know, their perspective on the mission, because 497 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: don't forget, the whole thing took about four hours. At 498 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: about forty minutes of that time was spent on the ground, 499 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: which means three hours and twenty minutes. The seals are 500 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: basically just passengers on. One of them describes it as 501 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: a ginormous bus. And so you know, the success of 502 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: the mission is in the hands of the pilots. And 503 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: this is something that because of the heroism and the 504 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: extraordinary accomplishment of the Seals, it hasn't really gotten a 505 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,959 Speaker 1: lot of focus. So we were able to get the 506 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: story of the helicopter piece of this mission, how it 507 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: was planned, what factors were taken into consideration, and working 508 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,239 Speaker 1: with um the pilots actually track the roots in and 509 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: out by the helicopters before and after the mission. Yeah, 510 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: and I think you know, one of the things that 511 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: most Americans don't really have a great appreciation for is 512 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: the amount of planning that goes into one of the 513 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: It's not just like, Okay, yeah, a bunch of seals 514 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: are gonna jump on the helicopter. We're gonna fly over, 515 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, hundred and seventy miles of Pakistani airspace, you know, 516 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: take out a compound, then jump right back on and 517 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: go everyone go home. Appy. It's the detail that goes 518 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: into that, and the amount of planning is just absolutely amazing. 519 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: And I'm sure that you guys have delved into that 520 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: as well. Absolutely, And of course it's so detailed that 521 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: we could only give a flavor of it, but you 522 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: know what was very clear, and we interviewed animal to 523 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: Graven and he talked about this, and then some of 524 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: the planners did every possible contingency that could happen, including 525 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: first and foremost, this was the first risk contingency that 526 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: they planned for. One of the helicopters going down, So 527 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: what happens in that case? What do you do then? 528 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: And of course where it goes down, but the contingency, 529 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: the two Chinook helicopters which were the backup force, and 530 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, the contingency air frames that would go in 531 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: in case of trouble. I mean, they were right on 532 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: their marks when they were needed. So when that first 533 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: black Hawk goes down in the compound, there's of course 534 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: a moment of shock for the pilots who were in 535 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: the Chinook's wait and see what happened. But essentially, you know, 536 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: within ten seconds there now in their phase of the 537 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: mission picking up because they know what they have to do. 538 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: And it was like that again and again and again. 539 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: If rething that you know, they could imagine. And I 540 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: would just add these people were incredibly experienced. They had 541 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: been more fighters in these kinds of operations for years. 542 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: One of the things that was so interesting about it, 543 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: and it applies to the relationship between the intelligence and 544 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: the military side as well. You know, when they began 545 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: planning for the Bin Lauden raid, they were working with 546 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: people basically who they worked with before. They had trust, 547 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: they had experience together, they had confidence, they knew they 548 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: could rely on one another. And so you know, all 549 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: of those years of experience of running raids and missions 550 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan in Iraq sort of came to this finely 551 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: honed machine that knew what it was doing, that had 552 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: the trust across agencies. And so you know, when the when, 553 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: when the when the first military planner goes into the 554 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: CIA to be briefed about what it is, and he 555 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: wasn't told what he was there for. And he's given 556 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: a folder that you know, first page has been Loudon's 557 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: picture on it, and he says, you know, he was 558 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: in a small basically they converted a closet for security 559 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: reasons within the CIA, if you can imagine, because it 560 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 1: wasn't shared. Um, he looked around the room, he said, 561 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: and these are people, A couple of them he knew 562 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: because he'd worked with them as a military intelligence cooperation 563 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: on missions before. And that really, to me is one 564 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: of the key elements in the success of this mission 565 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: and more broadly, the success of special operations. There is now, 566 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: as you well know, as your audience knows very well. 567 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: You know, the whole Joint Special Operations Command, the Special 568 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: Operations Command I mean, all of these things are relatively 569 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: recent phenomena in terms of the history of the U. S. Military, 570 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: and it gives us a tool that is unique. It's 571 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: finely honed, and when it is UM, when it is 572 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 1: put to use UM, it has devastating effect. And that 573 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: was certainly the case in relation to Operation Neptune Spear. Absolutely, 574 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: and that was one of the things that you know, 575 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 1: the the creation of so Calm was supposed to create. 576 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: You know, it was supposed to work that way, as 577 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, we learned during the I Ran hostage rescue 578 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: back in you know, uh, we need dedicated people to 579 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: be able to work together and plan and conduct these 580 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: type of operations, so we don't have that desert one 581 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 1: type thing you know ever rear its ugly head again. 582 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: And these type of operations that the operators and the 583 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: intelligence people have only gotten better as we've gone along, 584 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: and now we have the capability to go anywhere just 585 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: about in the world. And I'm really looking forward to 586 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: this special But you know, when it all, you know 587 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: finished up, UM, I'm sure you had a lot more 588 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: UM material than an hour. You probably had a cut 589 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: probably ten times that. Out of all of the material 590 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: you gathered up. Yeah, that's a very painful subject. Um, 591 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of things, Um, for reasons that 592 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: aren't very interesting, but unfortunate. We also want to weren't 593 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: able to do the book project we've been planning around this, 594 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: so I actually I am hoping that we can still 595 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,919 Speaker 1: do something. So you know, there are some folks out 596 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,479 Speaker 1: there who whose stories I would love to hear still, 597 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: who know, and they're thinking about that, so there may 598 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: even be I mean, there's a lot more that can 599 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: be said about this, of course, but you know the 600 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: challenge of doing this. I mean, we did interviews for 601 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: the film and that includes you know, the most well 602 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: known people, so you mentioned President Obama, Director Panetta, Secretary 603 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: of State Clinton, Secretary Defense Gates, Admiral mcgraven, you know, 604 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. But you know, those are 605 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: the people who were the big picture actors in this 606 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: and what we added to that and I think it 607 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: gives it, you know, a great kind of granular feel. 608 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: Is we added the planners and the operators, whether it's 609 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: on the intelligence side or the military side. You know, 610 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: the folks whose daily jobs was intelligent side to figure 611 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: out where bin Laden was and when they got, you know, 612 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: the lead to this compound, to try to make the 613 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: case that this was different than all the other leads 614 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: they've gotten before. And then of course on the military side, 615 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 1: you know very well, I mean, it really is in 616 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: the details that these missions succeed or fail. So you know, 617 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: getting a sense from the folks who had to do 618 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: not just the detailed planning, but the details of the 619 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: operation as it was happening, because you know, when that 620 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 1: first helicopter went down, of course, nobody knew immediately whether 621 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,879 Speaker 1: the thing had blown up, whether everybody had been killed 622 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: or whatever, but they were out on the ground, All 623 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: of all of the operators in that helicopter were out 624 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: on the ground within a minute, and so the delay 625 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: from this helicopter crashing was maybe ninety seconds or so. 626 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: And of course it left them in a position that 627 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: they weren't originally planning to be in. That's why the 628 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: model planning was so important, because they knew what was 629 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: on the other side of the wall that they had 630 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: to get through. And the second helicopter, instead of bringing 631 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: their folks in and putting them down on the roof 632 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: of the building, which was the original plan, they landed 633 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: him outside the compound entirely, and so that didn't stop anybody. 634 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: The improvisation, just the planning, the ability to react quickly, 635 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: I mean, frankly, it seems to me that's what allows 636 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: for the selection of these folks to be in the 637 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: positions there in they know how to think and act 638 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: under conditions of great stress. But even taking into account 639 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: the crash of the helicopter by ten minut it's this this, 640 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: this hunt for Bin Lawton is over. There's been a 641 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: firefight in the southern building in the compound with one 642 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: of the couriers. The other of the courier is killed 643 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: on the first floor of the main building. The man 644 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: who turns out to be Bin Lawton's son is killed 645 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: on the second floor of the main building. And already 646 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: then so you realize there's been an exchange of fire. 647 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: There are other armed people who have been killed before 648 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: they could fire on them. But you're now in essentially 649 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: a combat situation. And then you're still going up to 650 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: the third floor in this dark building which everybody had 651 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: wondered whether or not it was booby trapped to blow entirely, 652 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: and there they go up and um, that's where the 653 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: mission is complete. But it's really really it's an amazing 654 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: fact of this thing that through the ten years of 655 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: the hunt, the first time they knew for sure that 656 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,919 Speaker 1: Bin Lawden was in that building was when they saw 657 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,240 Speaker 1: him on the floor of his bedroom having been shot. 658 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,919 Speaker 1: It's really remarkable. Yeah, you know, going through, like I said, 659 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: the digital part of the museum, you know that you 660 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: had a quote from one of the Navy seals and 661 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 1: he mentioned said, you know, as they were going through 662 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 1: the compound, the women were trying to martyr themselves to 663 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: save their husbands. And that's when the seals kind of 664 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: knew right away that something, something was very big in 665 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: that compound, so that it hadn't been confirmed, but it 666 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 1: would be just seconds later, but that they kind of 667 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: knew at that point. And I saw where you did 668 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: interviews with a lot of the seals were on the 669 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: operation as well. That's right, we had. They were all 670 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: done anonymously, but we have six of the seal operators 671 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: we interviewed, I think unfortunately five made it into the film, uh, 672 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: six or in the exhibition. Uh And so from different 673 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 1: perspectives being on different helicopters and and just you know 674 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: what that was like because you know, the guys on 675 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: the second helicopter. Um, they knew there was a problem 676 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,320 Speaker 1: with the first one, but they didn't know what had happened. 677 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: And so they're outside the compound, their colleagues have gone down. 678 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: For all they know, they're dead, and so they're on 679 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: their own now, and they still got to carry out 680 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: the mission. And so again, um, that ability to just 681 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: figure out how to do the job is remarkable, And 682 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the point of, you know, 683 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 1: their recognition of different indicators that this was a really 684 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: serious place, including the role of the women in defending 685 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,760 Speaker 1: their husbands. You know, we have a couple of moments 686 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: in the film where it's almost like the intelligence checklist 687 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: that they were given before the mission is sort of 688 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: running through their heads and they're checking off boxes on 689 00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:00,839 Speaker 1: their briefing as they're encountering things in the compound. That absolutely, 690 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: as you say, really gave them a sense that this 691 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: is serious stuff. We're onto something big here, because what's 692 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: happening to us right now is exactly what intelligence folks 693 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: thought would be happening if we were dealing with bin Laden. Yeah, 694 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: it's uh, I mean, I've I've read some of the 695 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: the accounts of the of the raid there and everyone 696 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: who was involved in that. It speaks so highly of 697 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: all of them because of the level of planning that 698 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: we all know goes in those types of operations, and 699 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 1: those those helicopter pilots having flown with them in the past, 700 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: not you know, these particular ones, but as that's part 701 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: of the UH one sixty Special Operations. Aviation guys, those 702 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: are the best pilots I've seen anywhere. UM they'll scare 703 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: the heck out of you when you're flying with them 704 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: because they fly right at the limit a lot of times. 705 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: But there's no better people. And the fact that everyone 706 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,240 Speaker 1: was able to come out of that, you know, alive, 707 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: and they were able to accomplish their mission, It's just 708 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,320 Speaker 1: absolutely amazing. I'm really looking forward to this UH special 709 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,479 Speaker 1: on Sunday night. Thank you, Steve. I. I will say 710 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: the one UM had has just a remarkable history, but 711 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 1: you know, it really burnished that history even further with 712 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: this mission. One of the most remarkable things about the 713 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 1: aviation piece of this. You the helicopter who went down, 714 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,919 Speaker 1: UM the pilot controlled that landing to the point that 715 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: he was able to set the rear wheel of the helicopter, 716 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: which at that point was losing power, so it's not 717 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,879 Speaker 1: in total control, not in his total control. He's able 718 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,720 Speaker 1: to set the rear wheel on the top of the wall, 719 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,280 Speaker 1: so you know, the foot either way and rear section 720 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 1: breaks off and you probably have an explosion. But he 721 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,800 Speaker 1: puts it down so the wheel is resting on the wall, 722 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 1: and we actually animate this in the film. Obviously you 723 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: don't have video of it happening, but you know, it's 724 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 1: just a remarkable thing. And of course the front of 725 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: the helicopter sort of bumps down, but everybody gets off 726 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: and carries out the mission. It's just incredible, it is, 727 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 1: and that's a supreme, you know, example of tremendous flying 728 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,720 Speaker 1: and what people don't understand. You know. I remember talking 729 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: with some people who don't understand a lot of you know, 730 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 1: the military side of things, and they were like, well, 731 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: if the policy are so great, why they crash it? 732 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: And I was like, you don't understand. When you're flying 733 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: into a compound, helicopter usually pushes the air out. That's 734 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,439 Speaker 1: what it gives it. You know, it's lift capability. When 735 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: you're flying into a walled compound, that air circulates back up. Underneath, 736 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,319 Speaker 1: and it takes away your lift, and it takes away 737 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the um stability of these things, and 738 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: it takes a tremendous amount of flying skill to do 739 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 1: with that guy did and not get anybody hurt. That 740 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: was the amazing thing that that that aircraft went down. 741 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: But all of those guys were, like you just mentioned, 742 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: they were able to get off safely to finish their mission. 743 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,800 Speaker 1: They did what they needed to do. Everyone walked away 744 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 1: from it, and then they blew the helicopter up to 745 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: you know, the stealth technology was saying, it's it's incredible. 746 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I will say, I mean I've spoken to 747 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,319 Speaker 1: some of the guys around that helicopter and they did 748 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 1: have some issues, uh you know afterwards, just having from 749 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: the from banging so into the ground. But they went 750 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 1: ahead and did that mission. I mean, it really shows that, 751 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, the true test of these fox their training, 752 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: their talents, their commitment. It's not when the plan is 753 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: going as it's supposed to go. It's when the plan 754 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 1: goes south and you still have to fulfill the mission. 755 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 1: And you know, if anything shows just what the quality 756 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: of of the folks involved was, it was just that 757 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,359 Speaker 1: moment and of course everything that was done getting them 758 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: in and out and the seals operating on the ground 759 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 1: in that compound. Um, it's just you know, one moment 760 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,120 Speaker 1: after another of you know, your heart and your throat. Um. 761 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: I mean think about it this way, Steve. I mean, 762 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,319 Speaker 1: everybody knows the outcome of this story, but it's so 763 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,279 Speaker 1: tense to follow it to the completion, even though you 764 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,359 Speaker 1: know the outcome, because it's just it's crazy that this 765 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 1: actually happened and they managed to do it as well 766 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 1: as they did. So I I one of the things 767 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,239 Speaker 1: you know, we in making the film sort of thought 768 00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 1: a lot about, you know, how do you keep how 769 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: do you keep the ten in a story where you 770 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 1: know the outcome? But the simple answer is if you 771 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 1: show just how much they had to take into account 772 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,360 Speaker 1: along the way, all of those risks and what actually happened, 773 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,800 Speaker 1: it just maintains at tension by itself. Absolutely. And uh, 774 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,280 Speaker 1: I know time is short. I know you have other 775 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: commitments today, but before we let you go, is there 776 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: anything else you'd like to add above the museum, the 777 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,879 Speaker 1: memorial as well as the upcoming TV special. Well, I'll 778 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: do a couple of little plugs here and one is 779 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,960 Speaker 1: the History Channel Sunday, May second, eight o'clock Pacific and 780 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 1: Eastern time. UM. We are open again at the museum, 781 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: including the exhibition, so folks in New York are more 782 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 1: than welcome to come. But if you're interested, we also 783 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,760 Speaker 1: have virtual tours of the museum itself, of the Memorial 784 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: and of the special exhibition on the Hunt for Bin 785 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 1: Laden And people can go to our website, even Memorial 786 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: dot or our g and they can find those tours 787 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,440 Speaker 1: and sign up for the virtual tours from wherever they're located. 788 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: We would love to see folks at the museum when 789 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: they're comfortable, UM and able to travel safely, but you know, 790 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: in the event that that's not in the immediate future 791 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,360 Speaker 1: for you, UM, I would urge folks to take a 792 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,440 Speaker 1: look at the website and come to on one of 793 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 1: our virtual tours. Well, we want to thank you very 794 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,239 Speaker 1: much for your time this afternoon, and before we go, 795 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,399 Speaker 1: we just need to read a quick little note here. 796 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: If you want to get soft Reap on your phone, 797 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 1: download our free mobile app and get easy access to 798 00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: our articles, podcast and geary views, all perfectly format it 799 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 1: to your device. Please subscribe to software dot com to 800 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,399 Speaker 1: get access to our library of e books and our 801 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,080 Speaker 1: exclusive team room forms and content available on all your 802 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: Apple and Android devices. We want to thank our guests 803 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:58,759 Speaker 1: today Clifford Training for from the nine eleven Memorial and Museum, 804 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,439 Speaker 1: and we heard all of our listeners and readers out there. 805 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: Check out this special, The Hunt for Bin Laden. It's 806 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,720 Speaker 1: gonna be on the History Channel on Sunday evening eight o'clock. 807 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be fantastic. Sir, Thank you once 808 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: again for joining us. We really appreciate the time this afternoon. 809 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Steve. I love doing it. Okay, well, 810 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: we look forward to visiting in person as well the 811 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,320 Speaker 1: next time we're back up in the Northeast. All right, thanks, 812 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:49,880 Speaker 1: take care YouTube you've been listening to self red Lydia 813 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:50,600 Speaker 1: m