Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2: Everybody is DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the God. We
Speaker 2: are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in
Speaker 2: the building. Yes, indeed have doctor Rito Walker. Welcome back.
Speaker 3: Good Mon's great to be here with you all.
Speaker 1: Great to have you.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rida Walker is the author one of my favorite
Speaker 4: books ever, The Unapologetic God, The Black Mental Health.
Speaker 1: I recommend it to everybody.
Speaker 4: And you are celebrating the fifth anniversary of the release
Speaker 4: of The Unapologetic God, The Black Mental Health. Jesus Christ,
Speaker 4: time don't be playing boy, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean five years.
Speaker 5: God is good and I never would have expected that
Speaker 5: the book would have had the impact that has had,
Speaker 5: you know, meeting you, you know, being able to talk
Speaker 5: to you. All the folks who have you know, come
Speaker 5: to me and said the book has changed their life.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: Did they buy the book for their family members and
Speaker 5: for friends, they have book club meetings.
Speaker 3: It's just, you know, it's been a blessing.
Speaker 1: I remember when I read it. Debbie Brown, our good sister,
Speaker 1: Debbie Brown.
Speaker 4: She gave me the manuscript and I read it on vacation,
Speaker 4: and I remember reading it and saying to my so,
Speaker 4: where has this book been all of our lives?
Speaker 5: Well, it's been, you know, it's been a process. So
Speaker 5: I earned my PhD more than twenty years ago, and
Speaker 5: you know, working on trying to understand specifically for black people,
Speaker 5: you know, our experiences, and trying to integrate that into
Speaker 5: the larger landscape of mental health that you all know
Speaker 5: has exploded, you know, trying to merge what I know
Speaker 5: as a black woman and I'm a first generation college student.
Speaker 5: My parents didn't go to college, and merging my reality
Speaker 5: with what I was learning and the research that I
Speaker 5: was engaged in and trying to train PhD clinical psychology students.
Speaker 5: You know, that's it took time. So it took a
Speaker 5: little time for me to get here, but I'm here.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I noticed that it's not just about mental health, it's
Speaker 6: specifically for black mental health, right, Like, why is it?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 6: Why is it important to be unapologetic about who this
Speaker 6: book is for.
Speaker 5: I'm so glad that you asked that, because, as you
Speaker 5: all know, oftentimes, you know, black people get lumped in
Speaker 5: with minorities. One of the labels that we use in
Speaker 5: academia is bipock. So black and we include folks with
Speaker 5: indigenous people of color, but we know that Black people
Speaker 5: have a very specific and unique way of just living life,
Speaker 5: of doing things. We've learned mental health from the generations
Speaker 5: before us, and in ways that weren't always helpful. You know,
Speaker 5: we learned not to talk about our feelings and emotions,
Speaker 5: like we learned that like what we learned impacted who
Speaker 5: we are, while at the same time dealing with racism,
Speaker 5: dealing with microaggressions, you know, folks saying, you know, pull
Speaker 5: yourself up by the bootstraps, and we don't even have boots.
Speaker 5: You know, that is a reality for us, and we
Speaker 5: need to be able to talk about that. And that's
Speaker 5: part of what makes the book unapologetic is that I said, yeah,
Speaker 5: we're not talking about everybody, We're just talking about black people. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and that's not that it hasn't helped other folks. And
Speaker 5: I've had people from many communities, you know, gay, straight, black, Asian,
Speaker 5: We've all people from many different communities have said that
Speaker 5: the book has helped them, which is fine, you know, great,
Speaker 5: get what you need from the book.
Speaker 3: But I wrote it for us.
Speaker 4: How do you handle black people who still think therapy
Speaker 4: is just white.
Speaker 5: People shit, Well, I say, you know, God bless you,
Speaker 5: and then I talk to them about things that in
Speaker 5: their language. And I think that's part of what made
Speaker 5: the book resonate, is talking to folks in ways that
Speaker 5: makes sense to us.
Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons.
Speaker 5: They had to be for us, because we talk a
Speaker 5: certain way, and I use that in the book. And so,
Speaker 5: you know, I ask folks about their worry. I ask
Speaker 5: folks about problem sleeping, Like in the black community, we
Speaker 5: have a lot of problems with sleep, and we don't
Speaker 5: even we normalize it. And so I talk about the
Speaker 5: day to day kinds of things that people experience but
Speaker 5: have normalize and then they say hmm, and then we
Speaker 5: can start to have a conversation from there. I gotta
Speaker 5: you got to meet folks where they are like. And
Speaker 5: that's one of I introduced the idea of psychological fortitude
Speaker 5: in the book, because we say mental health. As you
Speaker 5: all know, folks start thinking, oh, someone's crazy. They hearing
Speaker 5: and seeing things that aren't there. Okay, let's just move
Speaker 5: by that. Let's let's let's keep it moving. Let's figure
Speaker 5: out how I can help people with a different kind
Speaker 5: of language.
Speaker 2: It's been five years. What's surprise you the most about
Speaker 2: the impact of the book.
Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 5: I think probably the degree to which people who are
Speaker 5: not black have said that the book has helped them really,
Speaker 5: And I think it's because there are some dimensions of
Speaker 5: mental health that are universal.
Speaker 3: You know, people worry, you know.
Speaker 5: People have difficulties with sadness and low moments, and so
Speaker 5: what I do in the book is.
Speaker 3: To talk about what do you do with that?
Speaker 5: So given those moments, and they you know, they're transient,
Speaker 5: like sometimes it's here, sometimes it's not. If we don't
Speaker 5: address it, it can escalate, and so I talk about
Speaker 5: that because we're humans, so it relates to it relates
Speaker 5: for a lot of different communities.
Speaker 2: And if you could add one chapter now right it's
Speaker 2: been five years, if there's something that you missed it
Speaker 2: you just wanted to add one chapter to discuss, what
Speaker 2: would that chapter be on?
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5: You know what I have thought about I will say
Speaker 5: the most is when I talk about suicide. So I
Speaker 5: start there in the book. I didn't necessarily want to
Speaker 5: start there, but the publishers wanted to start art there
Speaker 5: because that's my area of research. So that's the research
Speaker 5: that I have been doing, you know, for more than
Speaker 5: twenty years. It's trying to understand risk and resilience related
Speaker 5: to mental health crisis when someone decides they don't want
Speaker 5: to live anymore.
Speaker 1: And so the.
Speaker 5: Publisher said you need to start there, and I was like, ooh,
Speaker 5: I don't. I don't think that's a good idea, you know,
Speaker 5: not for my community. And since then we've had conversations
Speaker 5: and they say, you know, okay, yeah, we kind of
Speaker 5: get it. And so that's one thing I would definitely
Speaker 5: do is to ease folks into that conversation maybe at
Speaker 5: the end of the book rather than starting there.
Speaker 3: So just so you're prepared, I kind of start there, yes.
Speaker 2: Take I when to ask one thing about suicide before
Speaker 2: you move on. You know, I was talking to my
Speaker 2: wife about suicide because you see the suicide rates increase,
Speaker 2: especially with young kids. People blame it on social media,
Speaker 2: They blame on so many different things. Do you feel
Speaker 2: like a lot of times a suicide is based off
Speaker 2: of people not believing somebody's going through like almost like
Speaker 2: I'm going to do it because I'm going to show you.
Speaker 2: Do you see that a lot?
Speaker 5: I don't what I do see though, is people who
Speaker 5: are in crisis and don't have the language to communicate
Speaker 5: one or or they don't think people will believe them,
Speaker 5: you know. So people are struggling, and there are a
Speaker 5: lot of folks who are struggling, you know, especially especially
Speaker 5: now and increasingly, and they don't have the wherewithal to
Speaker 5: manage what they're going through.
Speaker 3: Or to be able to talk to folks who.
Speaker 5: Are not going to judge them, because y'all know, there's
Speaker 5: a lot of judgenus in our society, unfortunately. And the
Speaker 5: sad thing about that judgingus is that it does keep
Speaker 5: people from getting help. But the reality is, and you know,
Speaker 5: I talk about it throughout the book, that if we
Speaker 5: had a more informed society, and so this was my thinking.
Speaker 5: I wrote the book because the suicide death rates were
Speaker 5: increasing for black children age five to eleven, it was
Speaker 5: decreasing at the same time for their white counterparts. And
Speaker 5: so in my mind, because I know when people are
Speaker 5: in crisis, it's hard to get help, and so they
Speaker 5: need the folks around them to be able to say, hey,
Speaker 5: you know, you don't quite seem like yourself, or oh,
Speaker 5: I know you've been going through some things recently. I
Speaker 5: just want to check in on a zero to ten rating.
Speaker 5: You know, where where are you? And so, in my mind,
Speaker 5: if we have a community around the struggling person, then
Speaker 5: that's going to help them so much more than asking
Speaker 5: them to reach out for help when they're already in crisis.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought it.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
Speaker 6: Uh you called out beliefs like just pray about it
Speaker 6: right as being part of the reason that black people
Speaker 6: don't get formal help. What backlass did you face from that?
Speaker 5: You know, it's funny because I did have a couple
Speaker 5: ordained ministers to read that chapter before it went into
Speaker 5: the book, and one of them thanked me and the
Speaker 5: other one said, uh, doctor Walker, we're just going to
Speaker 5: have to.
Speaker 3: Agree to disagree.
Speaker 5: And that was fine because I needed to be unapologetic
Speaker 5: in calling out some of the things that we do
Speaker 5: in the community that are problematic, like saying pray about it.
Speaker 5: You know, when someone is really very depressed, and if
Speaker 5: you say that to them and then they start to think, well,
Speaker 5: maybe it's something wrong with me in my relationship with
Speaker 5: God because I have been praying, Like why would you
Speaker 5: think I haven't prayed? And so telling someone to pray
Speaker 5: about it, will tell them what to pray for, ask
Speaker 5: them to or advise them to pray for a mental
Speaker 5: health professional who's going to help them, you know, ask
Speaker 5: them to pray for someone who's going to give them
Speaker 5: a good, strong reference or something that they can do
Speaker 5: or hold on to. But to say pray about it
Speaker 5: and good luck, that's not helping people. And it saddens me.
Speaker 5: And it's almost heartbreaking when I still hear that, you know,
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: And I hate that hearing it. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: I hate off people who think it got to be
Speaker 4: an either or like you can have God and therapy
Speaker 4: because if I break my arm right now, you might
Speaker 4: pray for me, but you still won't send me to
Speaker 4: a doctor.
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, And there's someone who's made a T shirt
Speaker 5: that said, you know that I pray, I pray and
Speaker 5: go to therapy like please do, and even even better,
Speaker 5: pray for a therapist who has some spiritual mindedness that
Speaker 5: they can help you to integrate your faith in with
Speaker 5: the therapy. And that's something that I trained PhD psychology
Speaker 5: students to be able to do. You know, you got
Speaker 5: to first ask someone because not everyone is a believer,
Speaker 5: but ask them, you know, are you a person of faith?
Speaker 5: What does that mean to you to be a person
Speaker 5: of faith? Let's work together in order to be able
Speaker 5: to help you using one of your resources, because yes,
Speaker 5: having faith is a resource. Having faith has gotten black
Speaker 5: folks through a lot when there was nothing else. And
Speaker 5: I talk about that to my one of my newest books,
Speaker 5: You Know, no racial Elephants in the therapy room. I
Speaker 5: talked to specifically to therapists to be able to work
Speaker 5: with their clients and including their faith.
Speaker 4: I think the Potter's House has done a fantastic job
Speaker 4: of combining the two. You know, Bish you TDJ, Sagax,
Speaker 4: Roberts Torrey, like they've they always talk about God.
Speaker 1: But then also you've got to bring into.
Speaker 4: Mental health professionals when this actual mental health crisis is
Speaker 4: going on.
Speaker 5: Yes, because a lot of folks don't understand, you know,
Speaker 5: the psychological and the psychiatric part of it that you know,
Speaker 5: we can't expect for pastors and ministers to do that.
Speaker 5: That's not their training. For some of them it is,
Speaker 5: but for most it's not.
Speaker 4: You were talking about the language earlier, and that's a
Speaker 4: conversation we always have, you know, here on the show
Speaker 4: about how everybody has learned a lot of their language, right,
Speaker 4: whether it's you know, depression, anxiety. Do you think that
Speaker 4: people are self diagnosing too much? Are that just how
Speaker 4: awareness starts?
Speaker 5: I think it's good for awareness because one of some
Speaker 5: of the feedback that I've gotten about the book is
Speaker 5: folks saying they didn't know what was going on with them,
Speaker 5: and so they appreciate having language to be able to
Speaker 5: communicate what's going on for them. So that's definitely a
Speaker 5: good thing. But I do think that there is a
Speaker 5: lot of self diagnosis and it ends there. So if
Speaker 5: your diagnosis is I have higher than what is helpful
Speaker 5: level of anxiety, go see a professional. If it is
Speaker 5: my depression keeps me from being able to cook meals
Speaker 5: for my family, I don't know what to do, go
Speaker 5: see a professional who can help diagnose and give a
Speaker 5: roadmap for what needs to happen next. But yeah, the
Speaker 5: TikTok therapy is kind of concerning the kid.
Speaker 2: The kids is what scares me because the kid will
Speaker 2: say I'm depressed, and then if you ask the kay,
Speaker 2: well what does depressed mean?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I can't even say I don't know I'm just upset
Speaker 2: I failed the test and I'm depressed. You no, you're
Speaker 2: not depressed.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But that's my only fear.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask. We had on that for a second.
Speaker 4: Isn't that how we Isn't that a thing though, because
Speaker 4: like when we were young, we knew we were feeling something.
Speaker 1: We just didn't know what it was. We didn't even
Speaker 1: have the language to say depressed.
Speaker 2: But you could be sad. Depressed is different being sad,
Speaker 2: like it's different.
Speaker 1: But doesn't certain can sadness lead to the depression? Constant sadness? Right?
Speaker 5: Yes, So if you're sad for several weeks, if you're
Speaker 5: sad for for two weeks or more, then you could
Speaker 5: be depressed. I mean there there's certainly levels to depression,
Speaker 5: and that's why help it's helpful to go to a licensed,
Speaker 5: trained professional to be able to disentangle what might be happening. So, yeah,
Speaker 5: if you fail to test, I want you to be sad.
Speaker 1: I'm sad.
Speaker 2: I'm sad for the day. I'm sad for a couple
Speaker 2: of hours, but that doesn't mean depressed because tomorrow you're
Speaker 2: back outside playing.
Speaker 3: Soccer exactly exactly, and that's what we're.
Speaker 2: It's a very dangerous even anxiety. Like when I hear
Speaker 2: a kid say it, I'm like, I just realized what
Speaker 2: anxiety was a couple of years ago. How you know
Speaker 2: what it is to us?
Speaker 5: But they're smart, but you know, so for those of
Speaker 5: us who are you know, who are older, who can
Speaker 5: talk to young people, we can just ask what does
Speaker 5: that mean for you?
Speaker 3: What does that look like for you?
Speaker 5: Because even as a professional, if I'm seeing someone or
Speaker 5: a client for the first time, I'm asking them they
Speaker 5: because they come in, they watch TikTok, you know, they
Speaker 5: come in and they're saying, I'm depressed, and I still
Speaker 5: need to know what does your depression look like? Because
Speaker 5: your depression might be, you know, not being not wanting
Speaker 5: to eat, Maybe you feel really very sad and you
Speaker 5: don't want to be around people. But your depression might
Speaker 5: be like you're doing too much, you know, because you're
Speaker 5: trying to compensate for the depression, and your depression might
Speaker 5: look like you're overeating. And everyone is experiencing depression, and
Speaker 5: so we have to be able to ask not just
Speaker 5: for our clients, but for everyday people, what does that
Speaker 5: look like for you? Because It also gives us a
Speaker 5: point of intervention. You know, So if you're feeling more
Speaker 5: like you need to be isolated from folks, then okay,
Speaker 5: maybe I'll let you go be to yourself for a
Speaker 5: little while, and then I'll check in and say, Okay,
Speaker 5: how are you doing today. We don't even have to
Speaker 5: talk about the situation that you're going through. I just
Speaker 5: want you to know I'm here for you. People need
Speaker 5: to know that someone is going to be there for
Speaker 5: them and that they're not going to judge them.
Speaker 1: I think whatever I think.
Speaker 4: Basically, you're just telling people, don't self not diagnose if
Speaker 4: you think there's something there, and go seek help from professional.
Speaker 3: Yeah, please, gotcha? Please.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask to what are some of the
Speaker 2: myths that our community still have with therapy?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: We had an artist's name is Rob four nine. You
Speaker 2: heard of him? What the helly? Okay, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2: But he was saying basically that he feels like he
Speaker 2: needs therapy, but he doesn't necessarily want to go because
Speaker 2: he can't. He doesn't see himself talking to them. People
Speaker 2: don't trust them, you know, he doesn't trust them. So
Speaker 2: what are some of the myths that you still.
Speaker 5: See, well, that's certainly one of them. They gonna tell
Speaker 5: all my business, and that's important. We you know, you
Speaker 5: can't have folks, you can't have your business in the
Speaker 5: street like that's something that is unacceptable in our community.
Speaker 5: And so for that person. And I encounter a lot
Speaker 5: of those folks who are struggling. You see it, you know,
Speaker 5: we see it. But if they're not ready, then you
Speaker 5: can't force them to go and talk to someone. That's
Speaker 5: that's one part. And I there's so many folks, you know,
Speaker 5: and that's why we have to be non judgmental because
Speaker 5: if we say, like this is what I see, just
Speaker 5: want you to know I'm concerned, and then back off,
Speaker 5: then they know who they can go and talk to,
Speaker 5: like this person express concern, they seem concerned about me,
Speaker 5: I will go to them. But yes, those big myths
Speaker 5: that are those people are going to tell on my business.
Speaker 5: That's one part. The other part is what can they
Speaker 5: tell me. They're not gonna be able to tell me.
Speaker 5: They don't they don't even know me. But that's part
Speaker 5: of the process, is getting to know the client. There
Speaker 5: isn't a single person who is sit in front of
Speaker 5: me that I would say, I know their life story,
Speaker 5: I know how to help them. I'm gonna start with questions.
Speaker 5: I got questions first, and then the other part is
Speaker 5: you know something. I think that is they're gonna make
Speaker 5: me someone that I'm not and I need to maintain myself.
Speaker 5: Like I don't know a professional who has the power
Speaker 5: to be able to magically make someone different. The goal
Speaker 5: would be to make them a better functioning person, you know,
Speaker 5: to take on their responsibilities and do the best that
Speaker 5: they can, but not to make them a different person.
Speaker 2: I do have a question what is a therapist allowed
Speaker 2: to talk about?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: So if I see a murder, if I murder somebody,
Speaker 2: if I see domestic violence, if I see somebody getting hurt,
Speaker 2: it always brings me back to the Mendez brothers right
Speaker 2: where they were talking to the therapists, and the therapists
Speaker 2: use some of the stuff on the court case. So
Speaker 2: when you see stuff like that and something is going
Speaker 2: through my mind, I'm like, I ain't gonna tell nobody
Speaker 2: because what if they use it later? But then I
Speaker 2: might have to tell somebody to heal. So what can
Speaker 2: you guys tell?
Speaker 1: And what you know?
Speaker 2: What is just you know, patient crime privilege.
Speaker 1: Yes, you got to go to prison for us, you can.
Speaker 2: But I'm sure there's people that have seen crimes, have
Speaker 2: yet crimes, and they're going through things like I'll just
Speaker 2: use Robe four nine again. He said that he's seen
Speaker 2: so many things in his past, he seemed death, so
Speaker 2: much of his past, but he might not want to
Speaker 2: tell because he might want not want to get some
Speaker 2: money in trouble.
Speaker 3: Well, in that example, he can say I've seen.
Speaker 5: Okay, So anyone can say they've seen something without giving
Speaker 5: you know, facts or specifics and not expect for the
Speaker 5: police to come in and haul them off. But what
Speaker 5: I will say is so we talk in the first
Speaker 5: session about confidentiality, like confidentiality is part of the bedrock
Speaker 5: of what we do as licensed professionals, Like you can't
Speaker 5: just go out and yap about what people have been
Speaker 5: sharing or what they've disclosed in therapy. Now, the other
Speaker 5: thing that we emphasize is if someone says that they
Speaker 5: could be a harm to themselves or danger to themselves
Speaker 5: or to someone else, then that information might have to
Speaker 5: be disclosed in order to be able to protect that
Speaker 5: person's life or to protect the life of someone else
Speaker 5: if they are if there's a danger or abuse of children,
Speaker 5: elderly or people who have disabilities or different abilities, then
Speaker 5: that would have to be disclosed, and to be honest,
Speaker 5: it varies by state, but that's, you know, kind of
Speaker 5: a minimum threshold to be aware of because at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, the client has to be able
Speaker 5: to talk to their therapists because they aren't going to
Speaker 5: be able to get the healing and the help that
Speaker 5: they need if they can't get some stuff off of
Speaker 5: their chest. But then once they do that, then there
Speaker 5: has to be some understanding about what's going to happen next.
Speaker 4: You haven't mentionalbody so toxic like they made your therapist
Speaker 4: energy say yeah, I can't help you.
Speaker 5: So there have been a couple of occasions, and so
Speaker 5: what I have done for the most part is supervise
Speaker 5: PhD students in training. And there have been occasions, as
Speaker 5: an example, where the client was racist, or the client
Speaker 5: was doing harm to animals and the therapist was having
Speaker 5: a really difficult time because of I mean, that would
Speaker 5: be hard for hopefully anyone and supervisors do approach this
Speaker 5: work differently, I will say that, and that's one of
Speaker 5: the reasons you may get different stories and different narratives
Speaker 5: from different professionals because folks approach some of the work differently.
Speaker 5: But for me, you can't have a client who is
Speaker 5: disrespecting you or who is making you feel nauseous or
Speaker 5: uncomfortable on the inside and do your work like that's
Speaker 5: you can't do that. And so we're human first, like
Speaker 5: you know therapists professionals, we are human first, but we
Speaker 5: still also have a responsibility and obligation to be able
Speaker 5: to provide the best possible care.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: We got a good friend, good friend of mine, name's
Speaker 4: Humble the Poet, and he put out a book called Unanxious,
Speaker 4: Fifty simple truths to help overthinkers feel less stress and
Speaker 4: more calm. And I want to read just a quick
Speaker 4: little line from it because I want to know what
Speaker 4: you think about it. He says, life doesn't begin after
Speaker 4: the obstacles. Life is the obstacles, and we have to
Speaker 4: unlearn the idea.
Speaker 1: That we need.
Speaker 4: I would even want a life free of chaos, stress,
Speaker 4: and anxiety. We grow from facing challenges and exploring our limits.
Speaker 4: And the book encourages people to face their stressors and
Speaker 4: triggers head on with research techniques and journal prompts and
Speaker 4: We had a discussion here on Breakfast Club because I'm like,
Speaker 4: if I know something triggers me, I feel that I
Speaker 4: reserve the right to disconnect from it and set my
Speaker 4: boundary and not deal with that thing. He feels like,
Speaker 4: you should sit with the thing so the thing doesn't
Speaker 4: trigger you anymore.
Speaker 5: Well, I think you know how I feel about the
Speaker 5: word should, so I avoid it at all costs. And
Speaker 5: so if there is something in you that says, in
Speaker 5: this moment, I need to avoid this thing, I'm going
Speaker 5: to honor that. But I'm also going to ask you
Speaker 5: questions about what is happening for you? What are you
Speaker 5: telling yourself? So I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist, and so
Speaker 5: for me, you know, thoughts connect with behaviors, connect with feelings.
Speaker 5: So it all starts with, yes, something happened, But what
Speaker 5: is your thought in response to the thing? So is
Speaker 5: your thought in that moment? I can't deal with this.
Speaker 5: This is gonna hurt me, This is gonna harm me.
Speaker 5: I can't survive this because it happens, it plays out
Speaker 5: automatically before folks recognize, and so we have to slow
Speaker 5: down the process. Okay, tell me the facts. Tell me
Speaker 5: what happened, tell me what your next thought was, because
Speaker 5: most people don't have a sense of what was the
Speaker 5: next thought, and as a therapist, I have to slow
Speaker 5: things way down to understand. However, in order for you
Speaker 5: to feel like I can deal with this, whatever this
Speaker 5: situation is, or I need to be able to deal
Speaker 5: with this in order to be successful in life, then
Speaker 5: we got to figure out how to allow you to
Speaker 5: be able to do that, because yes, I think what
Speaker 5: I heard him saying was, you know, people need to
Speaker 5: be able to adapt to new and novel situations and
Speaker 5: circumstances in order to grow. In order to feel like, Okay,
Speaker 5: I got this, you know I can be successful in life.
Speaker 5: But I would I would pause, I'd hit the pause button.
Speaker 5: Something happens, person wants to avoid, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 5: tell me what just happened, because again I'm asking questions.
Speaker 5: I want to know what's going on for you, because
Speaker 5: I don't assume anything about anybody.
Speaker 2: See, I was like when he was there, I was like,
Speaker 2: f that adapt right, And I'll explain to you if
Speaker 2: I don't like you because you're a negative person. You're
Speaker 2: always putting me down, and I just don't feel good
Speaker 2: energy around you. You don't affect me in any which way.
Speaker 2: So I can cut you off and say, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm not answering your phone anymore. I don't work with you.
Speaker 2: I don't have to see you, and I should that
Speaker 2: should be my right to do that, because my energy
Speaker 2: is more important than this friendship. I don't have to
Speaker 2: sit in it. I don't have to adapt. I don't
Speaker 2: care if you like me or not. But that's how
Speaker 2: we should be. I think a lot of times we
Speaker 2: try to adapt in things, and we try to make
Speaker 2: things right, and I think a lot of times it
Speaker 2: hurts more than help.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and I respect that one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: And I can say that there have been maybe the
Speaker 5: middle ground, because you never know, you just you never
Speaker 5: know if someone says something to you, or they bring
Speaker 5: you a certain kind of energy, and maybe you do
Speaker 5: have some relationship with the person that you're willing to
Speaker 5: consider and preserve. Why not say to them, you know,
Speaker 5: when you do X, Y and Z, when you do
Speaker 5: that thing right there, when you do this, this is
Speaker 5: how I feel when that happens. Maybe they didn't know,
Speaker 5: you know, maybe they thought they were doing a good thing.
Speaker 5: And I think that allows us to be more in community,
Speaker 5: because we need.
Speaker 3: More and more community.
Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying. I used to try to
Speaker 2: thinkams over there to show me something different, right, Short,
Speaker 2: I used to do that too, Like you try to
Speaker 2: adapt to people, you do things that sometimes you don't
Speaker 2: want to do because you feel like it's the right
Speaker 2: thing to do. Right, and Short Thinkham's over there would
Speaker 2: be like, no, I'm not gonna do it because that
Speaker 2: doesn't make me happy. It might make you happy for
Speaker 2: what you do. I work hard, but I want to
Speaker 2: protect my piece. And I didn't understand it for a while,
Speaker 2: right because Short things just wouldn't go He was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it, You're not catch me, and I
Speaker 2: wouldn't get it. But then after a while I understood,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, if this is gonna up my piece,
Speaker 2: if this is not gonna make me happy, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stage in my life where you know what effort.
Speaker 2: And I agree with Shaw Thinkhams.
Speaker 1: It's a little pet nickname for me. Sey'all, men can't
Speaker 1: even just say my name. He can't even say my name.
Speaker 4: He gotta give me a little cute nickname to be
Speaker 4: vulnerable just to express himself.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, that make you feel better?
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, thank you, thank you, my wiffle colored negro.
Speaker 1: Thank you. It's my babe over there.
Speaker 3: That's such a beautiful moment.
Speaker 1: Yes, look, so this is my question.
Speaker 3: I don't know if maybe you can help me with this.
Speaker 1: Right, you don't even know what you just said. That's
Speaker 1: what that's the funny question.
Speaker 6: That was a moment for him to get a short look.
Speaker 6: I need uh So, just last night, right, I could
Speaker 6: not go to sleep. I could not go to sleep.
Speaker 6: I have problems sleeping. And I noticed you said at
Speaker 6: the beginning of the interview right where. But my thing
Speaker 6: is I can't turn my mind off. That's the that's
Speaker 6: the main thing. I don't know how to turn my
Speaker 6: brain off. I'm thinking about things I could be doing
Speaker 6: rather than getting sleep. I'm thinking about Damn, I forgot
Speaker 6: to do this today. It's not enough hours in a day.
Speaker 3: I you know what I.
Speaker 6: Mean, Like I have like a whole schedule in my mind.
Speaker 6: I never get it done. I feel guilty when I'm
Speaker 6: just sitting around, right, But I'm not supposed to feel
Speaker 6: like that, right Because also the guy that they were
Speaker 6: just referring to Humble poet. He was also saying we're
Speaker 6: not designed to take in as much that we take
Speaker 6: in now between like the social media, everything that we're fed,
Speaker 6: like even the algorithm. Like I because I've been thinking
Speaker 6: about it since he said it, and it's like, yo, like,
Speaker 6: first thing I do, I wake up, You know, I
Speaker 6: will pray, but I don't pray till I get in
Speaker 6: the car. I check my phone and then like even
Speaker 6: when I'm scrolling, it'll be a video, say, it'll be comedy,
Speaker 6: then it'll be another one about church, that it'll be
Speaker 6: nothing about something else about Donald Trump, to be something
Speaker 6: about the gaye you know, they everywhere, and then I
Speaker 6: scroll up again and it'll be something else. And then
Speaker 6: you know, it's like but I'm not getting a chance
Speaker 6: to process each and every video, right, So it's so
Speaker 6: much information that I'm downloading, and it's like I'm not
Speaker 6: a robot.
Speaker 2: I supposed to be okay.
Speaker 6: With silence for a while, you know, then I got
Speaker 6: a nine month old. Then I'm a wife, and then
Speaker 6: I got It's so much so when I'm laying down,
Speaker 6: I cannot silence my mind my thoughts to go to sleep.
Speaker 3: Ever, can't ever silence.
Speaker 6: Most of the time, not not ever, because weed will
Speaker 6: help me do that just being honest with you, Like
Speaker 6: I will hit a blunt and I will laugh and
Speaker 6: then I'll be out for a minute. But that's really
Speaker 6: the only thing that helps me get good rest weed.
Speaker 5: So you know, and I've heard you talk about your schedule,
Speaker 5: you know, and you know getting up and I think
Speaker 5: you said like four in the morning, but then you
Speaker 5: go to bed late at night, and so you know,
Speaker 5: So there's so many different layers to this, because yes,
Speaker 5: you are doing a lot. But one of the things
Speaker 5: that I heard you say just now was even when
Speaker 5: you're kind of sitting, you feel like you're supposed to
Speaker 5: be doing something, and so you're also telling yourself, I'm
Speaker 5: supposed to be doing something other than resting. So that's
Speaker 5: that's one thing for you to be mindful of. But then,
Speaker 5: you know, I think it's especially in this day and age,
Speaker 5: it's easy to wake up or not to fall asleep
Speaker 5: because your mind is racing.
Speaker 3: I was telling my husband this morning.
Speaker 5: I woke up at three o clock and I started
Speaker 5: to think about this conversation, and then I was thinking, Okay,
Speaker 5: I can say this I'll say that ooh and ooh,
Speaker 5: and I was like, okay, stop and I know better, right,
Speaker 5: I have the tools and the resources, and I was
Speaker 5: like quit it. And then that didn't work, and I said, Okay,
Speaker 5: we're gonna do ten more minutes. And then that didn't work,
Speaker 5: and I was like, Okay, we have to start doing
Speaker 5: our progressive muscle relaxation in order to be able to
Speaker 5: calm down.
Speaker 3: So there are strategies.
Speaker 5: Progressive muscle relaxation. So for me, it's when I close
Speaker 5: my eyes and I'm breathing deeply, and I tell myself
Speaker 5: that with each exhalation to release the tension. And I
Speaker 5: start with my forehead and eyebrows because I'm literally sometimes
Speaker 5: like this in bed. It was in Bens, like yeah,
Speaker 5: and so I have to tell myself to release and
Speaker 5: I go everybody part, ears, nose, and then I allow
Speaker 5: my body to be able to relax into the moment
Speaker 5: because I'm literally not just thinking, but I'm feeling it
Speaker 5: in my body and.
Speaker 3: I have to be able to relax.
Speaker 5: That the other thing that I recommend, and I put
Speaker 5: this in the workbook. So I did the unapologetic guy,
Speaker 5: and I have then the power legetic workbook is giving
Speaker 5: folks permission to before you go to bed, like some
Speaker 5: people need to keep a notepad in a pen, not
Speaker 5: the phone, but a notepad and a pen by the
Speaker 5: bed so that when all of these thoughts come to mind,
Speaker 5: you write them down. You write them down before you
Speaker 5: get into bed, Like everything that comes about, okay, write
Speaker 5: it down and then okay, try that if that you
Speaker 5: know you wake up, Okay, write somewhere down.
Speaker 3: I didn't have a notepad last night. I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: we're just gonna.
Speaker 5: Bug this out, but be able to write down all
Speaker 5: the things that come to your mind to release it,
Speaker 5: because otherwise you're going to ruminate about it, and that
Speaker 5: rumination will absolutely keep you up for hours.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I learned a lot of those techniques from you.
Speaker 4: And it's funny because you know, my three year old
Speaker 4: and look at me, see you see daddy, why you
Speaker 4: doing like this? And I don't even realize I'm doing it.
Speaker 4: And then when she tells me that, that's when I
Speaker 4: do those I try to do that technique to just relax.
Speaker 4: But another thing I want you to talk to Jess about.
Speaker 4: When you go to your website, it says reclaim your mind.
Speaker 4: What does that statement mean to you?
Speaker 5: We are a very very powerful people. And this is
Speaker 5: what I'm hoping that we eventually get to, you know,
Speaker 5: maybe not in the next five years or even ten years,
Speaker 5: but for the next generation, that we get back to
Speaker 5: knowing who we are as black people, as people of
Speaker 5: African descent. You know, there's so much negativity associated folks
Speaker 5: like I don't want to be African, you know, some
Speaker 5: folks now say I just want to be American. But
Speaker 5: the brilliance, the collective brilliance in our community is there,
Speaker 5: but it is way down by anxiety and depression. And
Speaker 5: for those who don't know, we talk a lot about
Speaker 5: anxiety and depression because those are the two most commonly
Speaker 5: diagnosed challenges. When we are way down with that, and
Speaker 5: sometimes it comes from racism, microaggressions out of nowhere. You know,
Speaker 5: yourt your job, just trying to mind your business, working
Speaker 5: on a project, and somebody says, oh, how'd you get
Speaker 5: that job?
Speaker 3: And you're like, well, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 5: And you're ruminating about that, Like, we just get weighed
Speaker 5: down by so much stuff that when we can get
Speaker 5: back to a place when we recognize that we are
Speaker 5: a brilliant people that when we can come together, maybe
Speaker 5: sometimes kneel together if need be, When we can come together,
Speaker 5: then we can reclaim who we are and we can
Speaker 5: use our immense talents and gifts that we have. Then
Speaker 5: we can use them, and then we will live collectively
Speaker 5: much more fulfilling lives, like we weren't meant to exist
Speaker 5: as individuals. Like that's a Eurocentric way of seeing the world.
Speaker 5: We are African people. You know, we don't have brother
Speaker 5: and you know, we don't have cousin and distant cousin
Speaker 5: and in laws. You know, we have brother and sister,
Speaker 5: like we are family, and so we need to get
Speaker 5: back to that in order to kind of resist the
Speaker 5: stuff that's happening out there.
Speaker 4: I got a couple of question because you talked about
Speaker 4: psychological fortitude earlier, which is a concept you introduced in
Speaker 4: the book and declare confusion around mental health. You talk
Speaker 4: about psychological fortitude, can you break down what that is
Speaker 4: just for people and why that's the game changing?
Speaker 5: Absolutely, because you know, just think on a day to
Speaker 5: day basis, you ask somebody how they're doing, and they
Speaker 5: say I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 3: You know, they may or may not mean it.
Speaker 5: But that's the answer that they give because oftentimes, you know,
Speaker 5: we think people don't want to know, maybe we don't
Speaker 5: know how well we're doing. But psychological fortitude is the
Speaker 5: zero to ten rating of a few different things. It's
Speaker 5: it's basically your capacity to function. So take care of
Speaker 5: your work responsibilities and or school responsibilities, because this can
Speaker 5: apply to children and teens. Also to be able to
Speaker 5: take care of your family.
Speaker 3: Maybe you got the in.
Speaker 5: Laws at the house, you got other cousins, you got
Speaker 5: folks at the house. To be able to take care
Speaker 5: of your physical health. You know, health health is a
Speaker 5: serious concern in our community for a number of different reasons.
Speaker 5: We got to be able to exercise and eat, write
Speaker 5: and do all the things while not sleeping. You know,
Speaker 5: you want a bag of chip sometimes when you can't
Speaker 5: sleep in your stressed out I love dessert, you know.
Speaker 5: And then we also need to be able to withstand
Speaker 5: the threats, like the things that are coming after us
Speaker 5: while we're still trying to tap into our gifts and talents.
Speaker 5: You know, in some communities not using your gifts and
Speaker 5: talents as a sin. But for us, it's kind of like,
Speaker 5: you know, you're just going through the motions and hoping.
Speaker 3: For the best.
Speaker 5: So if I say, you know, I say, envy, you
Speaker 5: know zero to ten, you don't have to tell us,
Speaker 5: but you could if you like, you know, on a
Speaker 5: zero to ten, you know, zero mean you have nothing
Speaker 5: in the tank, and ten is you cooking? You know,
Speaker 5: where would you say you are on your capacity to
Speaker 5: be able to do all those things?
Speaker 1: All?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 5: Nine you're the nine, and so you're at a great place.
Speaker 5: And so I might say, Okay, you know, Mby's good.
Speaker 5: You know we're gonna keep it moving. But if he
Speaker 5: said like four or lower, then that says to me,
Speaker 5: as someone in his community, that I need to just
Speaker 5: check in and say, hey, you know you're at a four, but.
Speaker 2: That's two day tomorrow. It could be a two.
Speaker 5: Tomorrow, it could be a two, right And if you
Speaker 5: stayed at a two for weeks, then we know it's
Speaker 5: a problem. But we have our two moments cause we're human.
Speaker 5: And then also for me, for myself, if I ask
Speaker 5: myself my own rating, and if it's too low, then
Speaker 5: I know that I probably need to be working on
Speaker 5: a boundary, Like I definitely don't need to be taken
Speaker 5: on anything else. I don't care who it is. I
Speaker 5: don't care what they ask. I cannot take on a
Speaker 5: single thing. If I'm at a six for me personally,
Speaker 5: if I'm at a six or lower, I'm I'm not
Speaker 5: doing anything else.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you. I can't today. Check in with me
Speaker 3: in three to four five months and or I need
Speaker 3: to add.
Speaker 5: Some sources of joy, you know, maybe reach out to
Speaker 5: someone that I haven't talked to in a while, who
Speaker 5: makes me smile, who I know isn't going to judge me.
Speaker 5: And I do have, you know, friends and folks who
Speaker 5: reach out to me and just say like, hey, what's
Speaker 5: your PF. SO PF for psychological fortitude? What's your PF
Speaker 5: right now? And depending on where I am, you know,
Speaker 5: I don't think about it for too long because you know,
Speaker 5: we can think. We want to get the right answer.
Speaker 5: I don't know what they're going to say, like just
Speaker 5: give a number. Like a number is so much more
Speaker 5: neutral than saying I'm good when I'm not, or risking
Speaker 5: saying you know, maybe someone else isn't ready for what
Speaker 5: all I might be going through.
Speaker 3: I begad of a number that tells you a lot.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: My last question is you know, you know, I love
Speaker 4: don't apologetic God to Black Pirns's Health. I swear by it.
Speaker 4: I think it's more than a book. It's a call
Speaker 4: to action. So what would progress look like in another
Speaker 4: five years from now if everybody really embrace the call
Speaker 4: to act that's.
Speaker 1: In this book?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 5: I love that question. So in another five years, we
Speaker 5: would have stronger communities where we're able to ask someone
Speaker 5: what's your PF right now? And if they say something
Speaker 5: that is a four or five, then you say, hey,
Speaker 5: do you have time right now? Let's check in, let's
Speaker 5: let's sit down. Or if they say something like a
Speaker 5: two or three, then someone in the community says, let
Speaker 5: me help you find a professional who can.
Speaker 3: Work with you. That it helps to build.
Speaker 5: Our communities, and that we have folks who are suffering
Speaker 5: less because you know, there are a lot of people
Speaker 5: who are suffering needlessly because they don't know whether or
Speaker 5: not this is mental health related or am I going crazy?
Speaker 5: Like we have legitimate language and understanding about what our
Speaker 5: psychological fortitude is. And I introduce that in part because
Speaker 5: and I think I mentioned this because when we hear
Speaker 5: mental health, we think something else. We need to get
Speaker 5: beyond that like we really need to get beyond this
Speaker 5: person is crazy, this person is having a nervous breakdown,
Speaker 5: Like that doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: We need to be able to function.
Speaker 5: But there are people who for sure have serious challenges
Speaker 5: and are hearing things that aren't there, and they do
Speaker 5: need to be able to connect with someone who's going
Speaker 5: to get them some medication. But I want us to
Speaker 5: normalize these conversations, get folks the help that they need
Speaker 5: so that every everyone can contribute to a better functioning society.
Speaker 2: All right, absolutely well, doctor Rida Walker, we appreciate a
Speaker 2: joining thank you. If you haven't got the book, pick
Speaker 2: up the book now is to fit the anniversary of
Speaker 2: the release of The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health.
Speaker 4: And the work book, the workbook that goes with The
Speaker 4: Unapologetic God to Black Mental Health. I tell everybody it
Speaker 4: is a muster read. It's one of them books that
Speaker 4: you have to have in your household. This is the
Speaker 4: book that we all needed, you know, growing up, Like
Speaker 4: you know, when our parents didn't know how to talk
Speaker 4: to us about it, or adults around us didn't know
Speaker 4: how to talk to us about mental health.
Speaker 1: This book right here laid it down quite flat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, can I can?
Speaker 3: I just add just two brief things.
Speaker 5: One, thank you so much to you, because you know,
Speaker 5: there have been a lot of people who said they
Speaker 5: got the book because of you didn't know any thing
Speaker 5: about it. So I am beyond grateful to you, Leonard
Speaker 5: forgetting the word out about the book. And also, folks
Speaker 5: can follow me. I'm most active on Instagram doctor Rita
Speaker 5: Walker dot com. Maybe I can get five hundred more
Speaker 5: followers to get me to twenty thousand for my birthday.
Speaker 3: Birthday day, It's Saturday.
Speaker 2: On Saturday, go follow doctor Rita Walker. Right do you
Speaker 2: say birthday, doctor Walker?
Speaker 4: You turn up.
Speaker 3: Birthday.
Speaker 1: It's doctor Rita Walker.
Speaker 2: It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up
Speaker 2: in the morning.
Speaker 1: The Breakfast Club.