WEBVTT - Trillium Rose 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:03.680 It's the Son of a Butsch podcast. I'm your host, 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:07.040 Claude Harmon. This week's guest a Trillium Rose, one of 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:09.920 the really good up and coming instructors out there just 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.840 giving really good quality golf lessons. I really like her approach. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:16.880 I've gotten to know her over the years. She's a 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.040 Golf Magazine Top one hundred instructure. She's thirty six on 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.320 the Golf Died Just Top Teacher list. And listen, it's 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:25.400 easy to just look at all of the people out 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.040 on tour coaching players standing behind them. You kind of 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:30.400 know who they are. I've had some of them on 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:34.360 the podcast. That's golf instruction at the highest level. You 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.479 have to get lucky to get a player. You have 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:39.320 to be in the right place at the right time. 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.080 So there are so many instructors that maybe you don't 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.560 know their name. But Trillian is one of the good ones, 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:51.239 and she works hard. She really is blending that kind 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.080 of mix between classic golf instruction and technology, and I 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.080 think she's someone that everyone will really enjoy listening to. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.160 But before we get to that, talk about Rap Sodo. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.760 Rap Sodo is changing the way golfers play and practice 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.840 with the MLM two Pro. 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Whether you are looking to improve 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.880 your game or play more golf, the MLM two Pro 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:24.840 is the solution for you. Play your way with Rahapsodo 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.800 goolf play without limits. If you're trying to get better 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.400 and you're looking for a launch monitor that isn't going 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.840 to break the bank, Rapsodo is the one for you. 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.280 Go check it out. So, like I said, Trillian Robes 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.480 is my guest this week. We talk about some really 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.600 cool stuff, kind of the how she blends. She's got 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:50.200 a degree in kind of how people learn, and I 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.840 think that's really important, the way that golfers learn, and 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.480 we talk about that and how she uses her base 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.320 of knowledge in how people learn and then applies it 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:06.320 to how players can get better. So really good interview 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.560 which I think you all are going to really like. 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.760 My guest today is Triliam Rose Trillium one of the 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.679 up and coming golf instructors I think in the game 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.640 right now. But before we get to all of your 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:24.559 golf instruction superpowers. This injury that I've seen on Instagram. 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.800 I mean, you're on crutches, you had surgery. The hell happened? 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:32.840 This is a little embarrassing. Well, it was playing ice hockey. 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:34.120 That's smart. 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:38.240 Yeah, Well I like ice hockey. You play it, and I. 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.320 Play with the group of women in the winter, which 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.200 is fine. But these are a group of guys and 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.240 they're on the like one to five years into it, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.240 so not not total beginners. 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:49.760 But you know, guys are a little bigger. 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:50.120 I was. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.000 I was on d in front of the net, loose puck, 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.920 someone kind of body weight on my back. I'm supporting, 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.120 little weight. I didn't fall, and then someone else whacked 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.760 the standing leg I know, soft ice. My skate didn't 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.880 move and the anterior fhibula is snapped. 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.960 If one of your golfers told you the story, what's 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.120 the first thing that you would tell the why are 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:11.120 you playing ice hockey? 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.000 No, the first thing you'd say is ice hockey? Why 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:19.440 are you playing ice hockey? Exactly in that voice. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.880 It is injuries. I think there are a lot of 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.680 people listening to the podcast that they have their big golfers. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.159 They love golf, golf is a huge part of their life, 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:33.440 and they get injured, they tear their acl playing basketball 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:39.159 or stuff like that. How do you feel, as adults, 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.240 the best way to come back from an injury. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:48.200 You know, I've learned it quite a bit about bone breaks. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.880 You know, I'm well into my forties, and I think 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.480 after the teenage years, our bones just start to become 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.240 more brittle. We don't have as much blood flow or 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:03.400 injury recovery timelines or longer. You know, kids. My surgeon 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.520 called it like green green shoots. 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:05.800 You know. 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:10.160 The bones are almost not rubber, obviously, but they're different. 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.560 So we've got to look at this. And I've been 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.000 looking at this on a slower timeline with a lot 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.479 more patients. And I think what's helped me specifically is 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:25.000 taking my expectations out of my day to day. So 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.880 usually I'd expect to be able to take a shower quickly. No, 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.599 it's not happening or everything. 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:31.160 Everything. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:35.200 Expectations are just out the window, and my priority is 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.240 healing and doing the best thing I can do in 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.160 a day to day with whatever I'm supposed to do. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.400 I think a lot of golfers when they do get injured, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.640 I say this to players all the time. No athlete 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.280 has ever taken too long to come back from an injury, right, 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.440 everybody takes the minimal amount of time. They come back early. 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.920 We see this a lot in our golfers that have 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.680 shoulder injuries, risk injuries, knee injuries, back injury. They get 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.520 told the rest, maybe they have some surgery, but they 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.120 immediately want to push getting back out on the golf course, 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.600 getting back out to hitting golf balls, especially now as 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.400 we're in the middle of the summer. For you, you live 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.520 on the East Coast in the United States, you spend 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.440 a lot of time to where a lot of your 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.520 students aren't able to get out and play golf. They 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.520 have to hit balls inside in simulators things of that nature. 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:24.880 It's hard to be patient when you're coming back from 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.200 an injury to do the rehab, to listen to kind 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.279 of your body, but also to listen to your doctors 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:30.719 as well. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.320 That's totally right, especially if you don't I don't know. 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.880 I don't My threshold for pain is probably higher than 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.320 it should be, right, So I'm one of these people 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.600 that I don't want to take the pain meds if 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.920 I don't have to, because I know that the signal 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.359 for me is really important, the signal being ouch, right, 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.720 So if I don't feel that out, I'm just going 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:51.560 to I'm going. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:53.400 To keep going. I'm going to keep I'm going to 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:54.039 keep pushing it. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:55.599 Oh I can put a little weight, Well, maybe I 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:56.799 can put a little more weight. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:58.840 Oh I can go fast. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.440 Why don't I see if I can go a little faster, right, 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.240 And I don't you know, I know, I don't begrudge 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.680 myself for wanting to push it and be competitive and 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.480 move forward to a point right if it's going to 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:11.280 hurt the process. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.640 And I think that's really hard and Lovy, like. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:14.800 You said, you want to you want to get out 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:16.000 there and you want to play, you want to be 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:17.520 part of it, you want to be relevant, you want 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.960 to keep going. So I think there's definitely a push 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:21.240 and a pull mentally on that. 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.960 A lot of people listening to this podcast will be 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.320 coming out of whether they're in Europe or whether they're, 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.000 you know, in a cold climate in the United States. 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:31.840 So we'll be coming out of a time to where, Okay, 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.640 we're getting into kind of the middle of summer. How 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.679 do you talk to players troll about the difference between 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:40.680 when you can't get out on the golf course, when 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.160 you're hitting golf balls inside. You feel like there should 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:48.120 be kind of winter training and then summer training. If 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.960 you live in a climate where you have to deal 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:51.480 with both. 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.080 I don't think people always have a choice, Like that's 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.560 sort of the way the way you are personally. I 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.600 have a hitting bay in the winter. We can open 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:04.440 the bay door we can hit balls into the snow 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.640 or ice, or we can close the door and hit 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.040 it into a net. So I've seen both cases be 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:14.640 incredibly useful. What I've seen as an instructor is having 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.880 an off season where you can, as I call it, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.040 lift up the hood, get into the engine, replace some parts. 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:20.480 Do you. 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.600 Your changeovers that you need, you want to change, you know, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.880 an issue in the takeaway, It's a great time to 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.040 do it. Why because you can really think about those 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.280 technical changes. Not a great time to be thinking when 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.520 you're leading up to a big tournament. So I mean 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.680 it's classic periodization right where you're going to try to 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.840 peak for your highest performing you know, stuff on your schedule, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.480 and you don't have to peak all year round. 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:45.600 It takes a lot out of you. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.360 So I kind of like having I don't know, im 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.800 Florida's toughy Florida, Texas, California, Southern California, those warmer climates, 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.320 I mean, those areas don't really have off seasons, and 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.640 some of these players you know you're working with, you 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.120 don't really necessarily have off You just kind of have 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.480 to fit it in when you can fit it in. 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.040 I think you know, based on your tournament schedule. But yeah, 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.120 for the recreational golfer, I'm a huge fan of having 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.319 those times where you can hit into a net. I'm 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.520 a huge even in the summer, you have a net 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.240 you can hit into, you take away the outcome, and 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.960 you take away a player's you know they're trying to 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.920 make a change and suddenly they hit a bad shot. 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.640 That feedback of that bad shot can be very misleading 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.199 that maybe they didn't do what they're trying to do. However, 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.000 you could be doing what you're trying to do. You 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:35.880 just happen to hit it on the puzzle, so you 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.679 think you did a bad shot, right. So, but if 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.120 you have a net, you take away that outcome and 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.600 then you give someone a chance to really get into 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.960 the feel of this wing. So yeah, I'm a fan 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:47.360 of the net, and. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:53.480 I think golfers are so outcome oriented, right, It's always 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:55.920 thinking about what the outcome is. And one of the 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.560 things that I try to say to students is to 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.600 just listen. If we stick with the problem, you know 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.440 the process of what it takes. If we kind of 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.240 know the recipe of what you're trying to do. If 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.640 we follow the recipe, we've got a much better chance 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.040 to get to something that tastes good as opposed to 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.240 if we have no idea what we're doing and we're 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.680 just going to try and throw a bunch of ingredients 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.240 at it. I know that motor learning is something that 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.160 you are very very passionate about that You've spent a 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.800 lot of time doing the research and doing a lot 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.559 of work in that area. Why do you think golfers 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:35.319 don't get better? Truly? I mean, I think taking lessons 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.920 a big part of it. But golfers, I think are 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:44.520 so hard on themselves. Their expectation levels are so high. 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:49.000 But I'd be really interested in your take on how 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:54.360 golfers learn and things that people listening could say, Okay, 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.720 if I'm going to try and take a lesson, I 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.720 always try to talk about taking a lesson from the 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.679 students standpoint, what are the questions you should be asking, 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.400 what are the things that you should be looking for 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.840 in an instructor? But from a learning standpoint, how do 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.760 you think golfers learn their best. 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:21.080 This is my favorite topic. Everybody. We didn't even talk 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.280 ahead of this. Yeah, he just knew what to ask. 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:26.080 Done this before. 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.480 You've done this before, and we all can relate to 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.080 this no matter where. You aren't on this level of 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.360 skill with any sport really that you're playing. 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.120 You're playing in a certain. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.880 Whatever your sport, let's call it golf, and you have 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.160 some level of competency and you know you have a 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.360 certain feel for things. But then you look at the 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.160 result and you said, well, I shot an eighty four. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:48.600 I don't really want to shoot eight. I want to 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.000 shoot a seventy four. Okay, we've got to look at 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.240 why why things aren't right. So this is why I 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.080 like arcos, I like repsodo, I mean, I like these, 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.800 I like track man, I mean I like ways to 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.280 figure out why we're not doing what we want to 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:04.880 be doing. You can look at your stats, you can 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.839 look at your you can look at your club data, 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:09.880 your ball data. Okay, so you figure out what you 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.480 need to do and then you figure okay, well I 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.840 need to move the ball differently. We need to change 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.800 our behavior, our motive behavior, you got to change something 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:19.280 you're doing in your swing. And let's say you have 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:26.160 a fundamentally risky motor pattern. Let's suppose it's like, I 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.640 don't know, you're not rotating your pelvis very much and 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:30.920 you rely on a lot in your hands and some 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:37.560 some wrist angles for example. To make a change is 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.560 hard and it's uncomfortable. So if the very first stage 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.000 of that is is, well, I've got to think about 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.000 what I'm doing differently, and you're and you're about to 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.800 go and play a lot of golf that summer, thinking 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:55.880 about doing something differently doesn't really jive with playing golf. Okay, 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.119 So right off the bat, you've got to be realistic 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.560 with yourself about ay, how much you're going to play, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:01.960 or how much you're going to play and the line 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.240 on the score, or how much you're going to be 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.840 able to practice until that that feeling becomes less uncomfortable. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:08.760 Right. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.640 That is a big amount of work, and I think 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.559 a lot of people either don't know how to do it, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.440 or they don't have someone who can help them, or 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.160 they don't know what the feel needs to be right, 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.320 or they're not willing to actually put the work in 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.600 to make that change. I mean, those are all just 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.560 right off the top of my head. There are people 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.400 that are totally willing to commit to make those adjustments 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.000 and those motor pattern changes. And those people tend to 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.840 have a very disciplined sense of how to set their 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.640 practice up so that every time they are hitting a 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.240 shot and they're making a repetition, they're making a quality 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.839 attempt to do it the way they're trying to do it, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.200 as opposed to like you said, which you were spot 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:53.080 on hit and then respond hit and then look at 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:54.240 the look at the outcome. 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:56.040 Because if you're waiting. 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.160 For the outcome to give you to give you like, 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.920 oh I did it right or not, you've already lost 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.680 You've lost the point. Because the point is not to 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.600 just swing the way you void's done it and hope 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.920 for something different, but actually to have a plan, like 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.200 a clear intention and then make a change. And like 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.679 on the front end another orson, you're going to think 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:17.679 you're going to do something differently, I'm going to do 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.760 something differently. I'm going to I'm going to initiate my 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.760 pelvis or whatever. Back to that one example, and then 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:25.640 do it and then figure out whether you did it 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.680 or not right afterwards, like give yourself some good feedback. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:32.680 So you can do that with video if you want, 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.600 or you need someone to or you need a training 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.120 in aid, or you need something to give you a 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.400 good sense of whether or not you can adhere to 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:40.400 your intention on that. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.600 I remember watching my dad teach once and he was 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.320 having someone try and work on the backswen was going 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.160 a little bit too inside, so he was trying to 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.320 get him to take it a little bit more outside. 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.600 And the player said, now that just feels terrible. And 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.440 he said something that's always stuck with me, and he said, well, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.480 if it didn't feel terrible, it wouldn't mean that, it 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.240 would mean that you weren't changing anything. It didn't feel 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.560 very very different, very very foreign to what you normally do. 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.880 That shows you that you're making a change. And I 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.880 think so many golfers are reluctant to kind of go 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:18.280 through that period. I don't I don't believe that when 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.400 you take a golf lesson you have to get worse 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.080 before you get better. But I do think there is 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.400 always going to be kind of that betting in period 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.680 to where okay, my fields are different now I'm used 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.840 to you know, I've got that kind of slicers inside 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:39.320 backswing and then come massively over the top. That gets 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.960 ingrained in your golf swing. And that's why people do 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.840 what they do, because they form a habit of the 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:48.760 way they move and the way their body moves and 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.960 the way they move the golf club. So I do 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.680 think that it is hard for a lot of players 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:59.840 to stick with it long enough for a change to happen. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.560 Is there a time frame, Trillium that you've kind of 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.840 looked at through all your studyings of motor learning and stuff? 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.400 I mean, how long do you think it takes for 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:14.040 players The average golfer who's going to play golf maybe 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.040 once a week, maybe hit golf balls once a week. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.440 That's not what we see from professional golfers who are 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.040 making changes in their golf swings all the time. 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.360 All the time. It's their job, and they go out 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.480 every day. They go every day. And you know, if 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:31.720 you played any high school or college sports, you went 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.560 out every day too, right, let's not forget every day. 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:37.840 So for some reason, we've got this idea that we 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.000 can take a lesson once a week, and once a 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.000 week would even be a pretty quick cadence for a 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.400 recreational golfer, they're like, what once every two weeks, Well, 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.160 what are you doing within that two weeks? So there's 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:56.880 no definitive repetition timeline about pattern changes because every pattern 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.800 change is different for some people. So for example, if 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:02.200 you been swinging a certain way for twenty years and 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.359 you're then trying to make a change, that's that is 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.119 a deeply ingrained habit. Like you just said, that's going 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.760 to take some time. So I respect those I respect 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:16.119 those players, and I respect those patterns greatly because you know, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:17.920 it's got to be worth it got to be well 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:19.960 worth making that change, right, because it's going to take 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.240 a lot of time if you're sort of still green, 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.720 or you're still new, or it's or you know, I 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.399 always love the player who's always tinkering and so like, 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.800 they could do lots of different things. I kind of 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.360 say that sarcastically, because sometimes that can be very, very dangerous. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.720 If someone's may makes lots of changes all the time, 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.919 then they're capable of, like anything's capable of bubbling to 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.400 the top. I'd almost rather see somebody not make drastic 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.159 swing changes all the time. So they kind of have 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.200 a big It's like if you're water coloring with lots 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.480 of colors, you end up with just brown. So timeline, Hey, 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.119 it depends on the player if you want to go, 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.600 if you want to go pretty quickly and making that 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.080 change and not telling you anything you don't know. But 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:06.080 from a motor learning standpoint, you want to do small 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:11.480 doses frequently as opposed to massing your large time of 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.040 practice infrequently. So ten minutes every day. If you can 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:16.920 get ten minutes, if you get fifteen minutes, if you 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.280 can get an hour every day, that's better than doing 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.159 a big massive It's like going to the gym. Go 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.040 to the gym every day, do something every day, even 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.600 if it's little, rather than go to the gym once 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.280 every two weeks for two hours. 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.440 So yeah, because I do think when players are trying 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:36.200 to make swing changes, they don't realize. I mean, first 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:41.200 of all, I think golfers, recreational golfers are so influenced 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.159 by television. I think the only real negative effect of 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.720 Tiger and his career have been how many different times 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.720 he's changed his golf swings. We're always talking about when 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.200 he is changing his golf swing, and people think, okay, yeah, 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.200 I'm just going to change my entire golf swing with 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:03.280 what I do. Get Number one, how talented professionals are 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.680 that do that, How frequently they are practicing playing hitting 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:13.960 golf balls. So I think it's it's somewhat at times 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.600 it's like it's glamorous to go through a swing chains 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.919 and I'm thinking that's the worst possible scenario to be 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.480 in as a golfers where you have to make a massive, 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.840 massive change. 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.600 On that point, I love Dustin Johnson. I love when 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.040 he says an oppressor, okay, what do you think about 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.000 when you just shot sixty two and he's like, not much, 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.800 and then you've got two million club golfers saying, well great, 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:41.320 I'm not going to think about much either. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.760 What helps to be? It helps if you're DJ, it 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.600 always helps. The talent level with DJ is always it's 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.960 always helpful to have that. But no, I think you're right, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.879 and I think that. I also think it's important, truly 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.359 to understand part of our job as instructors. You know this, 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:04.040 we're part psycholog just as we are instructors. You're trying 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.560 to figure out what type of learner the student is. 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.959 I think for those of us in the instruction business. 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.800 You take a lot from what that person does for 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.720 a living, right, if they are an engineer, if they 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.760 are in finance, if they are in you know, R 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.760 and D, or in any sort of development in tech. 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:28.960 They're wired differently than someone who's a musician, an actor, 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.240