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Speaker 1: Hi, Brian, Hi Katie So, Dame Judy Dench, Sir Elton

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Speaker 1: John and a talk show host walk into a studio

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Speaker 1: and sit down over drinks. It sounds like a setup

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Speaker 1: to a joke, doesn't it. But it's actually a typical

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Speaker 1: episode of The Graham Norton Show, the wildly popular British

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Speaker 1: comedy chat show. But if anyone is listening in the UK,

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Speaker 1: of course you know that our guest today is Graham

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Speaker 1: Norton himself and I am really tickled pink about this.

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Speaker 1: Me too, but maybe I'm not pink anyway. Listeners, remember

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Speaker 1: how we mentioned the last episode that we had something

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Speaker 1: special in store for you, Well here is a big

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Speaker 1: surprise everyone. We're coming to you today from London. That's right.

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Speaker 1: The pod took us across the pond. All we had

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Speaker 1: to do was at an end. The fine folks over

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Speaker 1: at the British Broadcasting Corporation invited us to record some

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Speaker 1: podcast episodes on their home turf and they didn't have

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Speaker 1: to ask us twice. We're very excited to be here. This,

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Speaker 1: by the way, won't be our only episode out of

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Speaker 1: London in collaboration with the BBC, so be sure to

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Speaker 1: stay tuned in the month ahead. Now, listeners, we like

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Speaker 1: analytics as much as the next podcast, and so we

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Speaker 1: know that most of you are not British. Perhaps you're

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Speaker 1: not familiar with Graham Norton or his TV show. Don't worry,

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Speaker 1: We're here to help you get acquainted. So the first

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Speaker 1: thing you should know is that the format of the

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Speaker 1: Graham Norton Show is essentially an a list cocktail party.

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Speaker 1: On camera. He invites several celebrities to sit down side

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Speaker 1: by side to chat and drink with one another. And

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Speaker 1: they're not just there to promote their latest projects. They

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Speaker 1: tell stories, they do impressions, even party tricks, and they

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Speaker 1: feed on one another's energy. The result is a rollicking

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Speaker 1: good time. It's incredibly entertaining. But Graham is not just

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Speaker 1: funning games. He is also an acclaim novelist and advice

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Speaker 1: columnists for the Telegraph, something of a British icon. I

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Speaker 1: just say he's just a plain old British icon and

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Speaker 1: frankly a guy who knows how to have a good time.

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Speaker 1: We began our conversation by asking him about the whole

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Speaker 1: spirit of the show and what it's designed to do.

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Speaker 1: Graham Norton, we are so excited a to be in

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Speaker 1: London and be to be sitting here with you. Well

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Speaker 1: vice eversy. I live in London, but the sitting with

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Speaker 1: you is exciting. I'm sure it's equally exciting for him.

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Speaker 1: So so I gosh, I have so many questions to

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Speaker 1: ask you, Graham, and I know Brian does as well.

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Speaker 1: But you've been doing your what do they call it

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Speaker 1: a chat show? Over here across the pond? We call

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Speaker 1: it a chat show for a long time, but but

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Speaker 1: in its current incarnation for about eleven years? Is that right?

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Speaker 1: I don't even know, because I count from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: I count from when we started the Channel four with

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Speaker 1: a show called so Graham Norton and that was twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago this year. So thank you and in various forms,

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Speaker 1: I've been doing a chat slash talk show for that long, um,

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Speaker 1: and I genuinely I still enjoy it. I didn't you know.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of extraordinary that you know that you would

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Speaker 1: get a job and be doing the twenty years later

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Speaker 1: and going, hey, it's a great job. And you do

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Speaker 1: it once a week every Friday night. You tape on Thursdays.

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Speaker 1: And I read that your goal is to make sure

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Speaker 1: everybody has a fantastic time. You're not there to poke

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Speaker 1: and prod people. That's our job, by the way here today,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's that's the difference. That's the difference

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Speaker 1: I think between kind of a news agenda and entertainment agenda.

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Speaker 1: I am not there to upset anybody. If people say

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Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about what, why would I care?

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Speaker 1: I don't care who you're dating. I don't, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't If you're sick of talking about that film,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to bring it up. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: not my job to upset you. And and also the

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Speaker 1: audience for our show don't want to see that. They

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Speaker 1: don't want to watch people be uncomfortable fort They just

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Speaker 1: want to relax and they wanted to be fun. They

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Speaker 1: want to watch some famous people on accouch having a

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Speaker 1: good time. And that's what we try to provide. And

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Speaker 1: you think this relax setting actually yields more from the guests,

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Speaker 1: right that, like, if they're comfortable, they actually will say

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Speaker 1: more about their lives and their backgrounds and all the rest,

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Speaker 1: and the audience will really get to know them. Right,

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Speaker 1: That's kind of what I think. I think people if

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Speaker 1: if they're on guard. You know, these people, they're not stupid.

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Speaker 1: They've been around the block. They've been if not, they've

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Speaker 1: been media trained. But they you know, they know what

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Speaker 1: they're doing. So they're not going to tell you anything.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to tell you. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: like asking O J. Did you do it? You know

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Speaker 1: he's not. That's there's no point. So, uh, if you've

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Speaker 1: watched people on the show, if you see the things

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Speaker 1: that makes them laugh, or how they react to a

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Speaker 1: shocking story, how they react to an anecdote or something,

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Speaker 1: it oddly is more of an insight into who they

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Speaker 1: are and the sort of person they are than to

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Speaker 1: just have them sat and chair by themselves answer questions,

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Speaker 1: you know, about their life or their career. You use

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Speaker 1: Ryan Gosline as an example, when he laughed uproariously at

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Speaker 1: some story that he heard on your show, and kind

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Speaker 1: of what that revealed about him, his sense of humor,

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Speaker 1: his kind of naturalness, sensibility, because how cute he is

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Speaker 1: that we noticed already that was that was on festival.

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Speaker 1: But because they're because they because they share the couch

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Speaker 1: the guests, there's also really telling things about you know,

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Speaker 1: the ones who are interested in the other people on

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Speaker 1: the couch, the ones that listen. There are some guests

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Speaker 1: and they are nameless, Seriously, they'll remain names. And they'll

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Speaker 1: sit there and I'll go, what are they looking at?

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Speaker 1: What are they looking at? And then I follow their

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Speaker 1: gaze and they're looking at the monitor that's at the

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Speaker 1: front of the little set for waiting for their close up,

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Speaker 1: waiting to see themselves. And I know that your idea

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Speaker 1: of a fantastic guest, and I would like to say,

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Speaker 1: just in advance, I would be a fantastic guest. This

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Speaker 1: is not my effort to book myself on your show,

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Speaker 1: but I did read that you like when people ask

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Speaker 1: other guests questions, absolutely, and you don't mind if they

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Speaker 1: kind of take the microphone from you and asked the

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Speaker 1: guests a question. And best shows, the best shows are

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Speaker 1: the ones where I sit in my chair and the

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Speaker 1: couch takes on a life of its own and they're

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Speaker 1: just talking to each other. And that's those are the

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Speaker 1: nights that I enjoyed the most, and I think the

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Speaker 1: audience do too, because if there's something sort of almost

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, sort of privileged about peering into

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Speaker 1: this kind of celebrity dinner party that you would never

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Speaker 1: normally be invited to. That it's like that dinner party

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Speaker 1: where you, you know, who would you like to have

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Speaker 1: dinner with? Dead or alive? Your guests happened to be alive. Basically,

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Speaker 1: you're living that out almost every day, well every week, right,

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Speaker 1: And some of them I wouldn't choose after dinner. But

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Speaker 1: but well, we're going to get to that in a moment.

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Speaker 1: But actually I wanted to tell you both the funny

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Speaker 1: story to apropos of the asking a question. At one time,

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Speaker 1: I was on the Tonight Show when Jay Lenna was hosting,

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Speaker 1: and I came out and then there was a second

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Speaker 1: guest and I don't even remember his name, but he

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Speaker 1: was a young kind of actor and he was quite nervous,

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Speaker 1: and his big thing is that he could cry on

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Speaker 1: que as out, crying on to and or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: I was sitting at, you know, next him. But at

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Speaker 1: the Tonight Show, you don't kind of continue to engage.

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Speaker 1: You just kind of laugh and chuckling. You're sort of

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Speaker 1: like a potty plant. But when he said this, I

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Speaker 1: was waiting for Jay to say, okay, cry and he

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Speaker 1: never did. And it was It took all the strength

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Speaker 1: I had to not say ask him to cry, because

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Speaker 1: why would why would you bring it up if you

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Speaker 1: weren't going to do I don't know. I think there

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Speaker 1: must have been a miscommunication in the pre interview. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so I I like asking questions. The guy who cries said,

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Speaker 1: I'll do anything you want except cry, right, And I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to say that I can do it. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I was going to ask you about the chemistry, grant,

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Speaker 1: because your show, obviously with three people on the couch,

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Speaker 1: so much of it depends on chemistry and how the

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Speaker 1: guests interact. Um has there ever been a moment where

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Speaker 1: the three I mean, it just did not seem to

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Speaker 1: gell at all. There are, oddly, there are some nights

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Speaker 1: when the guests are perfectly fine individually and the just

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Speaker 1: is zero chemistry. The funniest times is when that happens

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Speaker 1: is when they're all from the same movie. Sometimes we'll

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Speaker 1: have three or four people from the same movie and

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Speaker 1: you're watching them, think, Wow, that was a long shoot.

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Speaker 1: None like this. No bonding at all went on here.

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Speaker 1: Clearly a lot of trailer time, separate trailer time went on.

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Speaker 1: How do you what do you do in that situation?

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Speaker 1: How do you get it kind of cranking? You don't,

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Speaker 1: you don't. It's just not a very good show, really,

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Speaker 1: that's you know, And that's that's the nice thing about

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Speaker 1: having these long runs. You know, you do a bad show,

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Speaker 1: you go, we'll try about another one next week. We'll

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Speaker 1: do another one next one. How do you prepare? You know,

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Speaker 1: we obviously read a lot of articles about you. I

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Speaker 1: know more about you than you probably know about you

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Speaker 1: at this point, Grant. But when you're doing a show

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Speaker 1: like that, do you read up on these folks or well,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's the same when you did you know,

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Speaker 1: the morning shows and your talk show. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a team, so people will do. They do all the research.

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Speaker 1: They then write quite chunky boggs, I mean kind of

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Speaker 1: you know boggs, which I'll read. I read them on

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Speaker 1: a Tuesday night, and then we go in on a Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: and that's when we spend the day in the office

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Speaker 1: together and we kind of choreograph the interviews. So obviously

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Speaker 1: there's the core things we have to cover the product.

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Speaker 1: So it's a film, a book, an album, whatever they have,

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Speaker 1: we've got to talk about those things. And we've got

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Speaker 1: to get all that right, and we've got to talk

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Speaker 1: about those things enough so that you know, the people

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Speaker 1: backstage are happy and the guests are happy, they handless.

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Speaker 1: And then and then we try to find the other stories,

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Speaker 1: the funny stories and what you're looking for, our moments

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Speaker 1: where you can say, oh, you had a funny story

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Speaker 1: about your first pet, and then you have a funny

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Speaker 1: story about your first pet, and now we've got there's

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Speaker 1: a conversation going about animals or whatever, and those are

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Speaker 1: the kind of things we try to find. We then

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Speaker 1: kind of knit all that together in a sort of

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Speaker 1: a sc ripped and then we do this bizarre thing

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Speaker 1: and I don't quite know how we started doing it,

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Speaker 1: but when we get into the studio on a Thursday,

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Speaker 1: we do address rehearsal and the yeah and you know,

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Speaker 1: the researchers play the researchers play it again, and we

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Speaker 1: do it and they tell the stories and we do

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Speaker 1: all this and it gives you you kind of it's

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Speaker 1: only after that you kind of go, you know, what

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Speaker 1: they didn't talk for like twenty minutes, or that guest,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was ages before I got to them,

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Speaker 1: or there's too much of them at the beginning, or

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Speaker 1: that interview seemed to go on too long, and then

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Speaker 1: we have another meeting, we changed things around, and then

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Speaker 1: we do the show. But but, but I imagine it's

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Speaker 1: hard to replicate the real thing because you never know

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Speaker 1: they're going to say. Because sometimes the guests are so

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Speaker 1: much better than the researcher, right, we know. The bad

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Speaker 1: ones are when the researcher told Jill stories and they're

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Speaker 1: really funny, and then the actual person tells their own

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Speaker 1: stories and it's like, oh, that was it was funny

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Speaker 1: this afternoon. I was gonna ask you, sort of on

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Speaker 1: that note, what makes a great guest on your show?

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Speaker 1: And what do you think is the best show you've

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Speaker 1: ever had? Oh? Um, the show that kind of uh

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Speaker 1: we I suppose a lot of us we think we

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Speaker 1: like it was. It was a show we did with

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Speaker 1: some of the guys for Monument Men. So it was

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Speaker 1: Matt Damon, Bill Murray, and Hu Bonneville from Downton Abbey.

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Speaker 1: I was just one. Matt Damon got a little bit

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Speaker 1: into the sauce. They all got quite into the sauce.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we didn't even mention that you get people

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Speaker 1: snuckered before they is that the word what's the British

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Speaker 1: word for drying? I think they're like twelve sauce a

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Speaker 1: drink is available, case it's available. But you always have

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Speaker 1: a little bit of Van Blanc, yes, because I gotta

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Speaker 1: think if I look, you know, if I look like

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Speaker 1: I'm having a nice time, then maybe someone else will.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's I ever get in the grip of

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Speaker 1: the grape. No, no, I mean I do not on television. Um,

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Speaker 1: but the monument Men's Guys they came on and because

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Speaker 1: it was a really I can't remember, there was someone

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Speaker 1: else in that movie, and he canceled at the last minute.

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Speaker 1: And then the studio was saying, were like, Bill Murray

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Speaker 1: might show up, but he might not. We don't know.

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Speaker 1: It all depends on he is a nice time of

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Speaker 1: the premiere. They might he might join the others. So

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Speaker 1: you know, that idea of scripting it and rehearsing it,

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Speaker 1: of course, that was all out the window. We were

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Speaker 1: just you know, we had no idea what the show

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Speaker 1: was going to be until we found out who was

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Speaker 1: going to rock up. And so Bill Murray did rock up.

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Speaker 1: He was in a great mood and that was one

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Speaker 1: of those nights where I did nothing. I just watched

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Speaker 1: the couch. I watched the couch and wasn't Matt Damon

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Speaker 1: really good as well? Why were they were all terrific?

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Speaker 1: They just told their stories. They made each other. That

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Speaker 1: was lovely was they made each other laugh so much.

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Speaker 1: They enjoyed each other. When you were going over the

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Speaker 1: script and you're really Jumper is a sweater? I actually

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Speaker 1: asked it to where will will dumb her everything? I

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Speaker 1: take my woolet Jumper, So in this scene in the

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Speaker 1: hot tip, am I going to be in my wooley

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Speaker 1: j have any guests of this show? And I suppose

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Speaker 1: that is what makes a good on a bullet that

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Speaker 1: time point, I don't know. Katie expression on a bull

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Speaker 1: well be useful to the bull if they were nursing

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Speaker 1: a baby bull, although bulls they can. Yeah, that's it, boy,

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Speaker 1: I'll work with you later, Okay. And useless and privileged

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Speaker 1: at the same time, because you know I have the

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Speaker 1: best seat in the house. Can I ask you something? Well,

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Speaker 1: clearly I can. Everybody shares a couch on your show,

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Speaker 1: except Hillary Clinton, who came on last year. Did she

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Speaker 1: have like a lot of handlers making a lot of

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Speaker 1: demands or why did you decide to put her on alone?

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Speaker 1: Because the only little window of opportunity we had with

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Speaker 1: her was I think eleven o'clock in the morning, so

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Speaker 1: we kind of thought, we don't want to do a

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Speaker 1: whole show at eleven o'clock in the morning. So we

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Speaker 1: have done these one on ones and they we either

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Speaker 1: start the show with the one of when we did

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Speaker 1: a one woman with Charlie Sheen was in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the drug Yes it was. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: towards the end of that, but yes, it was a

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Speaker 1: long period and we just kind of, actually, that's a

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Speaker 1: lot to ask other people to actually, yeah, he's HIV positive,

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Speaker 1: so that we're very serious and we wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about stuff like that. So so we do occasionally do these, uh,

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Speaker 1: single interviews. So with the Hillary because we only had

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Speaker 1: the left frolock in the morning, so we get we

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Speaker 1: put out there saying, look, if anybody wants to come

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Speaker 1: and see an interview with Hillary Clinton at eleven o'clock

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Speaker 1: in the morning, feel free. So audience full, six hundred

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Speaker 1: people there, six d people. They show up. They did

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Speaker 1: not see until I think a quarter past four in

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Speaker 1: the after I read that what she heard her foot. No,

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Speaker 1: that's right, and she was in a cast, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she had one of those boot things. Yeah. And it

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Speaker 1: was extraordinary because we didn't we literally did not know

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Speaker 1: what was going on. They didn't tell you anything. They

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Speaker 1: were telling us as much as they could, but they

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Speaker 1: didn't know how badly she had hurt her foot. She

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Speaker 1: didn't know what you know, what, was she going to

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Speaker 1: need surgery? Da dada? She did rock up and she

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Speaker 1: was you know, I think she was on pain medication

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Speaker 1: by the end of the That makes for an interesting interview.

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Speaker 1: A little pain medication next with a little caepernet. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no booze. I think I did have to because otherwise

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Speaker 1: it would looked weird if I didn't have one. So

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Speaker 1: it was good. It was good for me that it

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Speaker 1: moved in the afternoon. So but but by the end

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Speaker 1: you could tell that the what was causing her pain

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Speaker 1: and she was uncomfortable. But but nice that she showed up. No,

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Speaker 1: nice that she showed up. And and it was one

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Speaker 1: of those weird things where the minute and elections over,

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Speaker 1: you suddenly see who they should have been all along.

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Speaker 1: You know, her interview was so great. Why weren't you

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Speaker 1: like this? Why was it so great? Because she was

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Speaker 1: she was on guarded she wasn't trying to second guess everything. Well,

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Speaker 1: this was after the election of the inauguration, so she

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Speaker 1: could let her hair down, and she'd written a book

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Speaker 1: where she'd kind of put it all in there. And

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Speaker 1: the book. Have you read the book? I haven't read.

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Speaker 1: I want to read it. It's on my list. It

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Speaker 1: is good. And what isn't it interesting? The things she

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Speaker 1: can't let go of? These we well know, but like

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Speaker 1: but weird. There's like an interview where they didn't ask

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Speaker 1: her enough questions about foreign policy and stuff, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: I think I know what interviews she's talking. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was on the Intrepid. So you enjoyed her a lot.

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Speaker 1: She was funny and she also talked about the inauguration.

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Speaker 1: We have a clip from that interview. Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's weak Shakespearean right. You went to

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Speaker 1: the in racial and that was because you were first lady,

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Speaker 1: not because you're being right. And and you know, I

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Speaker 1: really tried to get out of going. Um, I you know,

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Speaker 1: because I was going, not as the candidate or the

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Speaker 1: opponent but as a former first lady, because the tradition

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Speaker 1: is presidents and former first ladies all show up, regardless

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Speaker 1: of Republican or Democrat, to show support continuity of our government. So,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I didn't know what to expect. What

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Speaker 1: I wanted to have happened was despite the kind of

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Speaker 1: campaign he ran, I wanted him to rise to the

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Speaker 1: occasion of being our president and being the president for everybody,

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Speaker 1: not just people who supported him. That didn't happen. And

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Speaker 1: so we were we were sitting there listening. I was

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Speaker 1: sitting next to George W. Bush and Bill was on

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Speaker 1: my other side, and we were listening to this really dark,

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Speaker 1: divisive speech that I just scribe as a cry from

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Speaker 1: the white nationalist gut um. It wasn't an outreach. It

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Speaker 1: was a narrowing and a hammering of what he had

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Speaker 1: said before. And it's reported, so I put it in

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Speaker 1: the book. It's reported that George W. Bush, as it ends,

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Speaker 1: says that was some weird ship. She's so likable. It's

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Speaker 1: so funny to hear her just say that, right, because

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Speaker 1: it's just you just feel like if that woman had campaigned,

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Speaker 1: she had done a lot better. Maybe, although she would

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Speaker 1: have offended a bunch of people. She'd have gotten a

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Speaker 1: denial from George W. Bush if that had happened before.

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Speaker 1: I mean careful, but but but I think she was

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Speaker 1: too cautious and too careful. If she had let her

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Speaker 1: personality show in this warm, funny side of her, I

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Speaker 1: think it would have made a big difference. And it

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Speaker 1: was something I don't know whether it's about. Because she

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Speaker 1: was a woman, she felt she had to be better

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Speaker 1: and try harder, but she was. But she was all

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Speaker 1: about doing her homework. She was all about I'm prepared,

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Speaker 1: and I say, you are up against this guy who

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Speaker 1: you know, Like I said, she was worried about her

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Speaker 1: foreign policy. That guy couldn't point out American CDs on

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Speaker 1: a map, and nobody cared. She always, I think, seemed

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Speaker 1: like the prepared girl in the front of the class,

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Speaker 1: always with her hand up in the A yes's exactly

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Speaker 1: Tracy Flick. But you know, I have to just say

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Speaker 1: that watching that inauguration, you had to admire how stoic

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Speaker 1: and poise she was because it must have really driven

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Speaker 1: her crazy. And you know what she would have said

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Speaker 1: about that, I'm always liked best when I'm a victim.

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Speaker 1: She's made this point several times. Because she was, you know,

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Speaker 1: hurt and defeated, people are more sympathetic the same thing

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Speaker 1: to happen when her husband cheated on her with Monica Lewinsky.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is very gendered. Actually there's something

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Speaker 1: you know, because people though, oh, I you know, I

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Speaker 1: hate her some because when we announced she was going

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Speaker 1: to be on, you actually saw it was weird. I've

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Speaker 1: never encountered Russian bots before, but suddenly, well yeah, because

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Speaker 1: I thought that's so weird. And sure enough, even when

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Speaker 1: the show went out, when it was going out in

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Speaker 1: real time, um, the feed was really positive. It was

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Speaker 1: real viewers in Britain watching an interview with Hillary, and

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Speaker 1: once the morning came and they were up in Russia

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Speaker 1: and they had time, they want, Oh that happened, we

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Speaker 1: better get in there. Suddenly you all this negativity, but

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Speaker 1: at a random time when the show wasn't on anywhere.

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Speaker 1: The show, yeah it was, it wasn't interesting. But also

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Speaker 1: I do think you know, the way that people hate her,

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Speaker 1: You I think fair enough hate a politician, you know,

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Speaker 1: be feel free to head a politician. But to those people,

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Speaker 1: you've gotta think, is there a male politician you hate

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Speaker 1: as much as you hate her, and I think the

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Speaker 1: answer is no, And therefore that has to be something

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Speaker 1: to do with gender. Well, do you think that Margaret

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Speaker 1: Thatcher faced some of the same problems that Hillary Clinton faced.

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of too young to really well. Actually, well,

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Speaker 1: let's say other female politicians, even Theresa May. I mean

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Speaker 1: Theresa A definitely, I think she does. Is it a

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Speaker 1: similar kind of misogyny in your view? Certainly, I think

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Speaker 1: there's that slightly um, you know, head girl. But but

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Speaker 1: also with her, there's almost a sort of masochistic about it.

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Speaker 1: She it's you know, that thing about wanting to be

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Speaker 1: a victim. She she walks into fire. I mean she

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Speaker 1: she wants it, she draws it on herself and in

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Speaker 1: a way, you know, after Brexit, you know, anything could

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Speaker 1: have happened when anybody who was Prime minister at that

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Speaker 1: point would have been a victim. But who wants that job,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, get the job after it's happened. Don't

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Speaker 1: don't try to steer the country. You know in this inevitably,

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Speaker 1: whoever is prime minister right after Brexit is going to

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Speaker 1: have an impossible time. I think, yeah, and all the

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Speaker 1: boys scarpered and left it to head girl to clean

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Speaker 1: up the mess. She's like the vomit monitor or something.

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Speaker 1: You know, she's out in the hole with a bucket. Well,

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Speaker 1: the boys are waiting outside in the playground and is

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Speaker 1: it gone yet? And we'll come in when it's clean. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a break and when we come back,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Brexit. We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about Trump. We're going to talk about your childhood and

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Speaker 1: how you got to where you are today. We're basically

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Speaker 1: going to be here for five hours. Great, I hope

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Speaker 1: you're okay about that. So we'll be back right after this,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. You've written about what maybe called your

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Speaker 1: love love relationship with alcohol. You did go to a

427
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: A for a few days at one point, but obviously

428
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: it didn't stick. Anyone watching your show that can I

429
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: just say that thing about me going to a A

430
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: I I, what happened? Was that fake news? What it's

431
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: sort of fake news. All that happened was I was

432
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 1: staying in l A with Carrie Fisher and I was

433
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: getting a lift downtown to meet friends to go for drinks.

434
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: But we had to stop because she was going to

435
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: an a meeting on the way, So you just wrapped

436
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: her off. No no, she was driving, so I had

437
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: to go away lift with a y no no no,

438
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: So I had to go in and wait for the meeting,

439
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: and then she continued the drive down. So I so

440
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: I have attended a two or three waiting, but you didn't.

441
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: I didn't go to the I swung by, Okay, didn't

442
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: ever worry about your your drinking it off. I do,

443
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: not so much in terms of addiction, more in terms

444
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: of just health and what it's doing to myself. So

445
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: when I turned fifty, I had a big sort of

446
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: week called an emot What does that sound like? A

447
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: big health checky type thing? Okay, is something you do

448
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: to your car, right, okay? So a tuna yeah, that

449
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So I had what this scan and

450
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: you know, like they give pregnant women. By the way,

451
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: you're pretty buff. I just want to point out I cycle. Okay.

452
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: So so I'm there and they put that kind of

453
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: weird jelly on you. Oh yeah, I'm familiar with it.

454
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: Happy had two babies and many sonograms, so I'm not familiar.

455
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: You're young. You're young. So they're doing this and he's

456
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: going and this is the such and search and this

457
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: is and he goes and around here is the liver

458
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 1: and I literally went like, what is that? Like, wait

459
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: a second, we can't find it. It's covered with stuff.

460
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: There's an old cauliflower in here. And it was fine.

461
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: It was fine. Drink so far good, I must say

462
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: I do because it annoys me when people talk about

463
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: not drinking. So I don't talk about cutting down. But

464
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: of course this is in America, so I can. But yeah,

465
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: I do drink a lot less than I used to.

466
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: And what is your drink of choice? White wine, vodka, champagne,

467
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: anything you can see through I feel apart from yeah

468
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: that guy thing. Okay, so this is our bridge to

469
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: your background. Okay, yes you're from Ireland, yeah, pretty much.

470
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: And a little bit about your dad. So your dad

471
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: was a salesman for Guinness. Yes, very good. Yeah you

472
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: brought it back, Yeah we did, we did, so tell

473
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: us about that. And also you grew up in a

474
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: Protestant family in a Catholic stronghold in Ireland before the

475
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 1: peace Deal, when you know, these two groups were at

476
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: each other's throats. What was that like? How did it

477
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: shape you? And I think my dad working in the

478
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: Guinness was just heated job. And what's interesting is, I

479
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: suppose from outside point is it's the big Irish firm.

480
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: You know, people have heard of Guinness, but really living there,

481
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: he just had a job and off he went every

482
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: day and didn't came back. The growing up Protestant in

483
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: southern Ireland, County Cork, in County Cork, and I actually

484
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: moved around a lot, but always in southern My mother's

485
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: from Belfast up in the north, and I think people

486
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: kind of misconstruy was going on back then. There was

487
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: no trouble in the south. All the troubles were in

488
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 1: the north. But what was odd about it was that

489
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: you were kind of isolated in the community. So I

490
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: remember we moved to Abandon, where my mother still lived,

491
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: and we moved there during the summer holidays and we

492
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: lived in a house in the street and I played

493
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: with all the other kids and I went to the

494
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: birthday parties did during the summer. The end of the

495
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: summer we went to school. I never saw this children again.

496
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: They were segregated schools. Yeah, we went to a protest school.

497
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: They went to their school and we just didn't hang

498
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: out again, not in a kind of you know, because

499
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: obviously we were allowed to play together. No one sound

500
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: like the jet. Yeah, it wasn't like that, and it

501
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: wasn't like kind of you know, the Protestant parents were

502
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: telling their kids not to play with the Catholic kids,

503
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: and the Catholic parents it was just you didn't go

504
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: to school with them, so I don't know you anymore.

505
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: And that's just the way kids are. But I think

506
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: that it was kind of isolating and made you feel

507
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: slightly other, particularly because you know, in Ireland, Catholicism is everywhere.

508
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: You know, the Angelis comes on the TV at six o'clock,

509
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: the bells ring and there's the Virgin Mary on the radio.

510
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: You know, if you're on the bus and you'd go

511
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: past a chapel, everyone on the bus blesses themselves, you know,

512
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: and except you. Yeah, and and and obviously those things

513
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: have changed enormously. You know. I'm so proud the country that. Yeah,

514
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of the country that Ireland has become.

515
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: It's well, especially with this recent historic vote on abortion.

516
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: It blows my mind that that is a country that

517
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: I left thirty years ago. That it would have been

518
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: unheard of that the place I left would have a

519
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: referendum on gay marriage, have a referendum on abortion and

520
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: have an overwhelming yes vote, not just a squeaking vibe. Overwhelming,

521
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: and that is down. I think to young people in Ireland,

522
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: they are terrific. They are fashioning a republic for themselves

523
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: that's fit for purpose. It has room for them to

524
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: live the life they want to live in it and

525
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: they're not being told what to do by the church anymore.

526
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: And it is the government of the people rather than

527
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: the government of Rome, and it's it's terrific. When you

528
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: were growing up, I know that your mom said, as

529
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: even as a four year old, that you might be

530
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: faced with bullying and she gave you sort of coping

531
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: skills about how to deal with that, which was ignore

532
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: the bullies. Just don't validate anything they've said. And it

533
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: seems to me that lesson is kind of stayed with

534
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: you your entire life. It is very good advice in

535
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: stopping bullying in the You know, bullies want a reaction.

536
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: If you don't react that they sort they must get bored. However,

537
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: I think it does make you overall slightly emotionally disengaged life.

538
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: I mean, what advice would you give to your kids

539
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: if they were being bullied or did you prep them

540
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: for school? Did you give them you just got to

541
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: send them to a very nice school where that wasn't

542
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: going to happen. I mean everything, I think things happened,

543
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: and I think my daughter was actually bullied in high school.

544
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,959
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I think every situation is different,

545
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of how you handle it, and

546
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: you just hope you equip them with enough sort of

547
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: inner strength that they're able to forge ahead. But so

548
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: don't you guys think I think like bullying is so

549
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: going to be the next me too, the amount of

550
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: bullying in the workplace that goes on, Like really you're

551
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: online that too, But don't worry, Milannia. Trump's gonna handle

552
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: all that be better best, Actually Obama's would be better.

553
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: So she cribbed for Michelle, like a third or fourth

554
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: time would be best. Did she rock up today? Did

555
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: you because we're doing this earlier in the week, did

556
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: she as she seen the light of day? No, actually

557
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: is having a public appearance in the Veterans event, but

558
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: I read that it was going to happen, so still

559
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: earlier as of this recording, we are unsure whether, but

560
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: it is apparently she is going to make an appearance

561
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: that is such an interesting thing, and who knows, you know,

562
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: everything becomes a huge scandal, like no matter what it seems.

563
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: I think he enjoyed this we were discussing earlier. I

564
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: think he enjoys this stuff because inevitably it's a distraction

565
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: from the last scandal, which happened twenty minutes ago, which

566
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to talk about. And also, these scandals

567
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: don't matter, So let's talk about Malanni a missing for

568
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: days rather than talk about the sanctions or the trade

569
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: deals and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. So, yeah,

570
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about Trump seven. So back to you.

571
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: Did you when did you get a sense that you did?

572
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: You know, sort of at what age did you feel

573
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: like I'm gay? You know? Now this sounds like a joke,

574
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: but it's not. But a part of it. I think

575
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: part of my realization was slow. Partly I was I

576
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: was a late sort of tip for a twig, and

577
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: it was to with being Protestant in Southern Ireland. If

578
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: you talk to a lot of gay people who grew

579
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: up in kind of rural communities, they always feel say

580
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: they felt like a foreigner. They felt sort of all yeah,

581
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: they just felt slightly out of step with everyone, And

582
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: so you can imagine that if you actually can name

583
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: that growing up, you can go, oh, well, I feel

584
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: like that because I'm a Protestant, I am slightly out

585
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: of step with everybody. Um. It was only when I

586
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: left Ireland diagorized that those feelings weren't Protestant feelings. Different, different,

587
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: you told the Guardian, and I was really struck by

588
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: this quote. I don't think anyone wants to be gay.

589
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: For a cosmopolitan child living in London, on the right

590
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: side of town, maybe it wouldn't cost them a second thought.

591
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: But when I was growing up it did cost me

592
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: a second thought. I thought I'd be a social pariah.

593
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: So did it take you a while to kind of

594
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: accept who you are? And yes, you know, I hope

595
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: the world is different from most young people now, and

596
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: certainly that's the world we want to live in. My

597
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: worry is that a lot people still don't live in

598
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: that world. The trouble is I've sort of been out

599
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 1: of it for so long. You know, living in London

600
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: is you know, just what doesn't cross your mind, and

601
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: you forget how big the world is. But I have

602
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: to say when I went back to my old school

603
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: for you know, reunion, yeah, well know, to give up prizes,

604
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: like a prize day type thing. You know, I met

605
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: these kids. Not only were they you know, the role

606
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: was kind of obviously gay kids at your school, but

607
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: these ones were out and that blew my mind. Well,

608
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: I think to your earlier point about young people. You know,

609
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: my daughters are twenty six and twenty two, and you know,

610
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: high schools all over the country have lgbt Q clubs. Uh.

611
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: It is just a very different atmosphere where people are

612
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: encouraged to express their individuality and in a really positive way.

613
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: And I think it's wonderful. But you know what happened

614
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: to you though, And I guess when you were in

615
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: college you almost died Graham, Katie, I did. You're making

616
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: fun of it now, but I read about it and

617
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: I was really upset. Well, I was mugged. I was mugged,

618
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: but not just mugged. No, I was stabbed as part

619
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: of the muggy. I must say, I don't remember the stabbing.

620
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: It's one of those things. I thought I was just

621
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: mugged and they ran off in the re really thought

622
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: you were just mugged and you were stabbed and beaten

623
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: and all the rest. They got to hit me over

624
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 1: the head with a thing and it sounded like a

625
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: bit of like plastic piping, and then you realize, oh, no,

626
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: that is like a wooden thing. But the plastic piping

627
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: bit is the noise your skull makes here in London. Yeah,

628
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: and uh, we're playing into Trump's narrative now. It's so

629
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: dangerous here riding immigrants. So I they then, you know,

630
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: they ran so from my bag and they left me

631
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: on the on the pavement and ran off and I

632
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: watched them go and they didn't get up now, And

633
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: when I went to get up, I felt like I

634
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: was peeling myself off the ground. And that's odd. And

635
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: I looked down and you know, I'm just soaked with

636
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: blood and you lost half of your I did in

637
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: the end, half my blood. But what was kind of

638
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: what I liked. I was at drama school at the

639
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: time and we were doing you know Shakespeare. You know

640
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: that the Shakespeare people always go, you know, I've been

641
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: run through all that sort of stuff, and you've always thought, oh,

642
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: that's because they know, you know, they no special effects

643
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: back in Shakespeare stile, so people had to say I've

644
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: been run through. But in fact, it's what you say

645
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: because you're so surprised because your adrenaline is up, so

646
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: you didn't you don't feel it. It's like John Lennon

647
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: saying I've been shot, you know, and you look down

648
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: and go, oh, I've been stabbed. That sounds like Monty

649
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 1: Python and you and you have to say it out

650
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: loud because it's so astonishing. And then I sort of

651
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: wandered around a bit and then a very nice old

652
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: couple rang an ambulance and they saved my life. Why

653
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: did they do this to you? Do you think? Do

654
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: you think it was a random thing? Oh? Totally random?

655
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah I was, I was. It wasn't It had nothing

656
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: to do with homopho or anything like that. I don't

657
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: think so. I mean, I was just by myself. I

658
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: was wearing a very nice suit, but I was gonna

659
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: say I was wearing a dress. And what's the big

660
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: deal was the suit was too well cut and it

661
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: was a nice second hand suit. Ruined, of course, ruined.

662
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: And that's the tragic Well after after you got out

663
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: of school, you actually dropped out of school, right. Ultimately,

664
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: when you dropped out, is this after before you joined

665
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: the commune in San Francisco? Okay, what's the timeline? The

666
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: timeline is the timeline is I went to University College Cork.

667
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: I did two years there and then moving with me.

668
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: Then I went to America for a year on one

669
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: of those in and we at these J one visas

670
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: we can go and work for things. So I did

671
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: that wait tables and I had I think it was

672
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: a trailways. Are they gone now? Trailways buses? Yeah, Brian

673
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: hasn't ever ridden one, but they still still true. Yeah,

674
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: so seven day is rambler ticket for trailways. The idea

675
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: was going to land in New York and I was

676
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: going to get l A, but in fact it ran

677
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: out in San Francisco. Um, so I couldn't get to

678
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: l A. But actually it was quite Google had some

679
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: phone number there and with this one woman, she gave

680
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: me the number for this commune. It was called Star Dance.

681
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's called that. It's changed its

682
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: name now Start Dance. And I was sort of an

683
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: economic hippie. It was just it was cheap rent. So

684
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: I just I lived in this commun shop was never

685
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: really part. I mean I was part of the commune.

686
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: I did do everything with them. Did you stay there

687
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: and nearly a year? Um? And I loved it. I

688
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: absolutely loved it. Um. Yeah, but you didn't love it

689
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: that much because she came back to London. It was

690
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 1: never my life. I always felt I couldn't really start

691
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: my life in America. And then you came back here

692
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: and you kind of struggled for a while to find work,

693
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: to get the sorts of parts you wanted. You want

694
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: to be a comedian, and at some point you sort

695
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: of wondered, am I a waiter trying to become an

696
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: actor and a comedian or am I just destined to

697
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: do what I'm doing now? Well, it's one of those

698
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: weird things that I think, you know, talking to people

699
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: on my show, there are certain common threads in people's

700
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: success stories, and one of the common threads is they

701
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: are stupid, Like they made really terrible choices that you

702
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: would not recommend anyone make, but it turned out for them,

703
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So they're on the couch.

704
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: So they're on the couch. That's great, But there must

705
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: be lots of people who are not on a couch

706
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: who are struggling somewhere thinking, oh, maybe I shouldn't have

707
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: dropped out of school, maybe I shouldn't have moved to

708
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: l a nothing but fifty dollars, or maybe I shouldn't

709
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: have But we only hear the success stories. Those are

710
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: the people said. So I was one of those people.

711
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: If I had been my friend, I would have said,

712
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: give it up, just stop already. This is pathetic. It's

713
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: painful to watch you. It is clearly never going to

714
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: happen for you, but you hung in there. I hung

715
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: in there because I had no plan B. And I

716
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 1: think that's often. Uh, that's good advice to people don't

717
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: have a plan B. Again, No, I think it's it's

718
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: funny because you obviously always hear the opposite. Yeah, but

719
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: I had no plan B. It wasn't I got a

720
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: plan A. I just had the plan. And when it

721
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: wasn't working, I had no option but just to continue

722
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: with the terrible plan. But happily I did started. I

723
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: started getting its radio work and then it's a TV work.

724
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: And the thing that makes me happy is my dad

725
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: lived to see me have some success, so he didn't

726
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: go to his grave worrying about me. Which would have

727
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: just been the most horrible thing to do to your

728
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: dad was to you know, let him die, thinking what

729
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 1: the hell is going to happen to that loser? So

730
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: is your mom still? Yeah, I know she's still with us.

731
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: She's hanging in there, old boots. You're lucky. You're lucky

732
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: because it's hard when you lose both parents. You know,

733
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: there's you feel so Heather, Well, there's no good time,

734
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: is there? You're never ready? And my mom was ninety

735
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: one and my dad was ninety and I still, you know,

736
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: just I'm so sad that they're gone. When people say, oh, well,

737
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: they lived a long life, and as though you want

738
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: to put them out to pasture just because they're ninety,

739
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, but I guess I think that on the

740
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: other hand, you are lucky to have somebody as long

741
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: as as that. Okay, I've gotta tee you web for this.

742
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: I gotta te you up for this. So one of

743
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: your jobs in two thousand five is you moved to

744
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: the BBC with a show call. How do you solve

745
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: the problem like Marie uh beautiful guests getting mad? Take

746
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: this cloud and pin it down? How do you find

747
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 1: a word that means Marie h a flibberty gibbet a

748
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: will of will whisp a glass and she's doing this

749
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 1: from memory. Our listeners get really mad when she doesn't

750
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: sing for an episode. I can't sing, but I love

751
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: to sing. No, not really, But but tell me about

752
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: that show, because it was with Andrew Lloyd Webber. He

753
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: was searching for Maria because he was going to do

754
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: the stage version of Sound of Music. He acquired the

755
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: rights and he was going to put it on the

756
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: West End, and he came up with this genius idea,

757
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: how do you solve a problem like Marial. I think

758
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: it was one of those shows where the name came

759
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: up first. Yeah, it's so clever. It's clever. And they

760
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: did a casting show and so what was your role

761
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: in it? I literally go up next. It's blah blah

762
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: blah blah like the Ryan Secret. Yeah, yeah, that's what

763
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: I was doing. Yeah. So it was so easy. It

764
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: couldn't have been an easier job. Was it a massive hit?

765
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: It was? It did really well. We did a bunch

766
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: of them. We we cast Maria, then we did Joseph

767
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: for Joseph and the Technicolor, we did Nancy from Oliver

768
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: did you say, were is Nancy? We didn't do that.

769
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: That one was called I do anything, Yeah, anything to me? Okay, sorry,

770
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: there were probably in a show to mood. It's also

771
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: heavily jet lag, so I apologize. But anyway, so how

772
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: what that sounds like? So much fun? It was hoot

773
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: and holler, and I love Andrew. Working with Andrew is

774
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: just terrific. Have you guys interviewed him? You know what?

775
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: I know we tried to for this trip out of town. Yeah,

776
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: he blew us off ground, so maybe you can pick

777
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 1: us up. But is he great? I really like him

778
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: because he's like a wonderful teacher because he is so

779
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: passionate and enthusiastic about certain things like art, like musicals,

780
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: like music, and when he talks to you, it's infectious.

781
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: So that's what I mean, exactly a great teacher. So

782
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm not that interested in any of those things, but

783
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: when I'm with him, I am, and and actually the

784
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: love of music has sort of stayed with me and

785
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: I now I do go to see all the new

786
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: musicals and you know, have opinions like I know what

787
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I haven't seen that because not my favorite.

788
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: When I when I met When I met him, he

789
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 1: would he would do that. He would refer to scenes

790
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: from Phantom of the Opera and I would just have

791
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: a smile. And not because I've never seen Phantom the Opera,

792
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: but when you were as rich as he is, he's

793
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: got every right to assume that everyone on planet Earth

794
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: has paid to see it. I did finally see it

795
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: with my mother. My mother wanted to see it. I

796
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: took her and it was to be mostly populated by

797
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: Japanese tourist theory. Really it was extraordinary. It was proper

798
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: tourist audience, like, wow, who are you? Well, he's enormously talented, right,

799
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, so we can't just say nice things.

800
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: Who's a celebrity you really don't like? You know what?

801
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: I think you guys will know this most I think

802
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: most people are nice in themselves. It's the people around

803
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: them that that is so true. I interviewed Galgadote recently

804
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: and I loved her and I wanted to talk to

805
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: her because she was in the Israeli Army. She has

806
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 1: a very interesting backstory, not just as a wonder woman.

807
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: Her publicist was such a jerk and kept cutting me off,

808
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: and I was like, what are you doing? She's an

809
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: intelligent woman. She can have a smart conversation. I hate that,

810
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: But do you think I guess I won't be interviewing Keel.

811
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 1: So let's talk about a well known person that Katie

812
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: and I both like a lot, Judy Dench and Peter Bitch.

813
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: We have a clip, we have a clip. We want

814
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: to play and dud do you still go clubbing? Do

815
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: you still cut a robe? Do you? I have never

816
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: ever been to a club in my life? Terrible, Yes,

817
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: sorry for me like a rogue. Oh do I yes,

818
00:43:48,920 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: never been to a night club? Yes, you have? Absolutely.

819
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: They took us into the back door. Wouldn't the story

820
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: of her life? The only time? Is that really the

821
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: only time? Yes? Did you not have a nice night?

822
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: You look like you're having fun? Second, we did? I'm

823
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: gay and I've never been to heaven. That's astonishing. Why

824
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: were you there for God? That's a good question too.

825
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: I know the answer to that as well. You were

826
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: there to share what you were there to see share

827
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: the singer share. And of course it was all the

828
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: more fun because Elton John was with Judy den Yeah, exactly,

829
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: because they're kind of egging each other on and kind

830
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: of enjoying each other. Yeah, no, she was in there.

831
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: I think it was around tea with Mussolini time and

832
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: they Share was premier new single at the time. Believe

833
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,919
Speaker 1: do you believe that? Surely the engineer should have picked

834
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: up on that and immediately got from And it was

835
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: a very odd night because heaven is this big gay night.

836
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: It was a big gay nightclub in London, and you know,

837
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: so obviously we're there to see Share, but you don't

838
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: expect to see Judy and you don't expect Sir Ben

839
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: Kingsley to wander on and introduce Share. Audience audience was

840
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: like God's game. Can you explain the big red chair

841
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: on your show for people who haven't seen it? I

842
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: can the big red chair, Um, not the big red

843
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: share the big bigger chair to the big red chair

844
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: is I think we do. At the end of the show,

845
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: it's a segment where we get audience members in and

846
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: they basically try to tell their great story. They're one

847
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: good anecdote, you know, if you're all down you're in

848
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 1: the bar and everyone swapping stories. Oh this thing happened

849
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: to me, this is happened to me. You're a great one.

850
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: If you were at all boring. There's a big lever

851
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 1: and we flip it and you're gone. And it came

852
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: about because and again this is very British where it

853
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: came up, and there was a comic called Ronnie Corbett

854
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: and he used to tell these very long rambling stories

855
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: as part of the show. He's probably the two Ronnie.

856
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,479
Speaker 1: They're a very famous double act here, and he would

857
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: tell these long rambling stories about I said to the

858
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: producer blah blah. And when he was a guest, we thought,

859
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: how funny. We'll get audience members to try to tell

860
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: stories and then we'll have a lever and death. Great,

861
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: just for one off thing. So it was done. And

862
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: then afterwards the line producer came to us and said,

863
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: do you know how much that chair cost? And we

864
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 1: were like no, anyway, we needed to use it again

865
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: because it was spending so so, so he came up

866
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: with this idea and now we use it every week.

867
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: So in fact, it was money well spent. That other

868
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: that happens. Then one thing leads to another in the

869
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: dog basket and he gets injured. Anyway, Um, okay, so

870
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: many bits of this story missing. So you're having sex

871
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: in a dog basket to another, hope, leave a pool,

872
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: leave a great and so basically is there an objection seat?

873
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: It kind of flips the it just does anybody get hurt? No? No,

874
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: In fact, it looks more shocking on the screen when

875
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: you actually when if you do it, it's quite a

876
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: shallow little dip. It's not bad at all. We're going

877
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: to wrap things up pretty soon. Of course, we could

878
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: talk to you all day, but we know you probably

879
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: have a life and things to do. But you were

880
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: on Stephen Colbert and he asked you about Trump and

881
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 1: how people across the pond view him. So let's listen

882
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,919
Speaker 1: to that. You're not the most political, but you guys

883
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: talk about Trump over there. Well, you know we're heard

884
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: if your political situation has reached us U across the pond, Yeah,

885
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: across the pond. Yeah, it's uh, you know to put

886
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: international news and we get it, and we do do,

887
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: I mean, why not do? It's like shooting fish in

888
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: a barrel making fun of him. So so you know,

889
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: all these useless comedy writers are not like I can

890
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: do these jokes exactly because he writes them for you.

891
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: The fish happens to be the greatest democracy in the world. Unfortunately. Yes,

892
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: and you're shooting him with a gun, but he's got

893
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: a bomb, so yeah, it's it's worrisome. The other thing

894
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: that maybe people can explain is we're all aware that

895
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 1: his you know, his approval ratings are rock bottom, terrible,

896
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 1: never never, never been worse. But why aren't they zero?

897
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: That's what I like you who aren't those people who

898
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: were like because I get I get that you were

899
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: a fan of the Apprentice, you thought always straight talking,

900
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 1: you got to shake things up, But at this point,

901
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: who is going no, No, he's doing a good job.

902
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: And that's I think it's I think it's some cost,

903
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: Like people have already invested so much in him that

904
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: they're just going to ride the bomb all the way down. Wow, everyone,

905
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: And that joke hasn't aged well, has it? Because ratings

906
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: are quite almost normal now, Wow, Like, what do people

907
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: here think of Donald Trump? I know, obviously you can't

908
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: say for all all Brits, but in general, what's the

909
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: sentiment and is it does it fall along the lines

910
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: of Brexit? And I think there is there is certainly

911
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: some support from you here, you know, because we do

912
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: jokes about it on the show and every week, you

913
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: get some you know, treats about you know, stop making

914
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: fun of them, blah blah blah blah. But I think

915
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: overall people on one level they find him funny, but

916
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: another level, you know, they find him really worrying, particularly

917
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: because it breaks it. You know, we were supposed to

918
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: have this special relationship with America, and one of the

919
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,959
Speaker 1: things we were told was after Brexit, will have great

920
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: trade deals with America. That doesn't look that likely. Now

921
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: it happened. I was like, don't, don't dunt. I thought, wow,

922
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: I just felt that portended a specific outcome in the

923
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 1: US and sort of Bill Clinton, by the way, and

924
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: he warned a bunch of the Hillary people, and I

925
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: thought they just didn't take it seriously. Yeah, the great

926
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: thing about you is you can vote Trump out. We've

927
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: done Brexit. Brexits happening, Brexits forever. There's no turning back. Well,

928
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, hope springs eternal. But no, they seem absolutely

929
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: determined that this is going to happen. Do you think

930
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: there ought to be a second referendum? You know what?

931
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: Apparently I'm told that if there was, it would win again.

932
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: Because now people feel that the EU is bullying US,

933
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: so now there's more anti europe feeling rather than actually

934
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: they're negotiating a deal and it turns out they're really

935
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: good at it, and they used to negotiate deals for us.

936
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: They don't, but yeah, they think they're bullying us. So

937
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: I think breggsit would probably win again. There are a

938
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: lot of parallels though, when you think about it, between

939
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: what sort of the mood of the countries, both in

940
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: the US and in Great Britain, and this anti intellectualism

941
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: which I think has has surfaced in both countries, This

942
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 1: this kind of distrust of experts. There's a book called

943
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: The Death of Expertise. I know that the Education minister

944
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: who is now the Minister of the Environment, I'm told

945
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: not that I knew that, but someone Yeah, what did

946
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: he say? We have too many of someone's bring up

947
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: a point before the vast Basically experts are predicting that,

948
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 1: you know, the economy or tanka da dada, and you go, well,

949
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: I think this country has had enough of experts and

950
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: that really really, that's that's your takeaway. But also in

951
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: this country, and I'm sure it's the same in America,

952
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: where the results of the election has been forgotten. So

953
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,720
Speaker 1: actually people who want to remain or an intellectual elite.

954
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: There was forty eight percent of the population. If that's

955
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: an intellectual elite, we're doing really well. And the same

956
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: in America. You know, we did win the popular vote,

957
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: but somehow that's been forgotten. Now it's as if you know,

958
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: the great, you know, the great working man and woman

959
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 1: of America voted for Trump, and it's like, no, some did,

960
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: but an awful lot of vote of reelery. So I

961
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: know we have to wrap. But just a couple more things.

962
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: You said after splitting up with your boyfriend on the radio.

963
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: You said you'd prefer to live alone for the rest

964
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: of your life. Quote then live with towels that were

965
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: folded incorrectly? Are you a neat freak? But honestly, when

966
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: I when I do a book events and and that

967
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: was one particular book when that was when I said that,

968
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: it used to get this huge round of a bosom.

969
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: People who basically hate cohabiting. People cohabit because they have

970
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: to because it makes economic sense. I don't think anyone

971
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: wants to live with any I disagree. I love you

972
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: with my husband. People like things the way they like things. Well,

973
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: that's true. You have to compromise, exceed there you go.

974
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: So you know, it's like the toilet papers wrong, that

975
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: hung the wrong way around. It's kind of the bread

976
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: doesn't go there, you know. And also my problem is,

977
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: of course I'm old. So the longer you leave it,

978
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: the worst this gets. So are you interested in in

979
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: romance at this point? Always interested? Here? Are you on Tinder? No? No?

980
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: I was Grinder. No, I couldn't do Grinder because of

981
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, well just what it is, and that I

982
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: worked for the BBC. But I felt I felt Tinder

983
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: was socially acceptable. I could do Tinder, but no more.

984
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: But no more. Okay, you've mentioned your books a couple

985
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: of times, and we want to give you a plug

986
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: because you have a new book coming out in the fall. Well,

987
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've got a book that's still for

988
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: sale in America called Holding. It's a novel published by

989
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: a Tria I think a t R I A. But

990
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 1: there's a new book we published here in the fall

991
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: and hope someone in America will buy. It's called a Keeper,

992
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: and and it's fiction. It's another novel. Yeah, this is

993
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: my this is my new thing. When I turned fifty,

994
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: I decided right enough, I've told you know, I've always

995
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: wanted to run a novel. And you know, you know

996
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: those people who say I'd love to be able to

997
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: play piano, I think there is a way you could

998
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: do that. You could just learn and shoot up about it.

999
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 1: So so that's that was my approach novel writing. I

1000
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: thought enough talking about it, do it. So this is

1001
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: my second one. I think you surprise people a bit

1002
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 1: with the first one, that it was very soulful and

1003
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: deep and thoughtful, and it was in some ways, you know,

1004
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: the antithesis of parts of your show. I would say,

1005
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,879
Speaker 1: you know, it's certainly not the tele show at all.

1006
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,280
Speaker 1: But I think that's you know, we've all got multifacet

1007
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: and people seem to want to put you in a box,

1008
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: and then you know, if you deviate from their expectations,

1009
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 1: they freak out. But then we do put ourselves in boxes,

1010
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, you know if buttically at work, I

1011
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 1: think you want people to treat you in a certain

1012
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: way and assume you're a certain person. Um, you know,

1013
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: And then at the weekend way and and and in closing,

1014
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: speaking of the weekend, I read this quote of yours

1015
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 1: and I really liked it, Graham, because I think it's

1016
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: good advice for everyone. You said, you're talking about relationships,

1017
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: and you said, I failed all my relationship exams, and yes,

1018
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: it's a different life, but I'm still living. And then

1019
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 1: you go on to say you're far better off finding

1020
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: ways to enjoy the life you're living than mourning the

1021
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: life you're not, which is a double whammy of unhappiness.

1022
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 1: And if you want someone to share your life, well,

1023
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: no one wants to share a miserable life. Look like

1024
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: you're having fun, and someone might want to join the

1025
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: parade a funeral, Cortege not so much. I'm so wise. Actually,

1026
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: I really like that because I think, you know, it's

1027
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: sort of a variation on the secret. You know, what

1028
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: you put out you'll get in return, And I think

1029
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 1: that's true. And I think happy people attract other happy people, right, Well,

1030
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: I I get, I get, you know, I do advice

1031
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: call them for the telegraphy, that's right, and agony uncle, yeah,

1032
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:00,919
Speaker 1: And I get so many let us from those people,

1033
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, being miserable and da da you know, I

1034
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 1: really I really want to meet somebody's like, who the

1035
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: hell wants to go out with you? You know you

1036
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: have no you know, you're just you're literally sitting in

1037
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: your house waiting to meet someone. That doesn't seem like

1038
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: a party anyone wants to go to. So yeah, get

1039
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 1: out live a bit. When you think about your future,

1040
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: do you want to keep doing this as long as possible?

1041
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: Do you see stopping the show and devoting your time

1042
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 1: to writing? And I'd like to I love my job.

1043
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: I like working. I suppose what I Ultimately I'd like

1044
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: to work less, but not stop. People I know who

1045
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: stopped working go a bit cucku because I just think

1046
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: gives you too much time in your hands. And they

1047
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: I don't think I could do that. The over analyze.

1048
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Yeah, you know they about me,

1049
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: the obsessed, the obsessed about my nution and stupid things.

1050
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: And so I do want to keep working, but I

1051
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: would like to to write more. So it's about cutting back,

1052
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: not stopping. Well, I am so happy to meet you.

1053
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: This is so fun and not surprised seemingly you're you're

1054
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: pretty good at chatting. Well, I like chatting. He's had

1055
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: a little experience. Thank you Graham for coming on our podcast.

1056
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:12,760
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. That does it for our first

1057
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: podcast episode from London will be back this month with

1058
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: more conversations from our trip across the Pond and are

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Speaker 1: huge thanks to the BBC folks who helped bring us

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Speaker 1: to the UK. That's Fiona Campbell, Jeremy Skeet and Katie Spending.

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Speaker 1: Thanks also to the team at the BBC's Millbank Studios

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Speaker 1: for recording today's episode and Tom in particular, Thank you Tom.

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Speaker 1: I want to give a shout out to our team

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Speaker 1: at Stitcher that's Gianna Palmer, Nora Richie and Jared O'Connell.

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Speaker 1: And thank you as always to my team at Katie

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Speaker 1: Kirk Media Beth Demaz, Emily Bena and Alison Bresnik. And

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Speaker 1: one more reminder to please subscribe to our show. If

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Speaker 1: you do, you'll never miss an episode. It also helps

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00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: us to get the word out. Thanks also to everyone

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Speaker 1: who has left us reviews on Apple Podcasts. It really

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00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: helps us out. Remember we love hearing from you, especially

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00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: Brian and it makes his day and he walks around

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Speaker 1: with his chest a little puffier than usual, which is

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00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: saying something that You can email us at comments at

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Speaker 1: Current podcast dot com or call and leave a message

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00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: at nine to four four six three seven operators are

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Speaker 1: standing by. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to you next week. Cheerio,