1 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Well, hi everybody, it's me Shaka Khan. I feel for you, 2 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: I think I love you. It's Rossio Donald Duck, just 3 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: back from over the pond, So don't ways say across 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: the pond? What do they say? I went to London 5 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: to see opening night of the Madonna tour and it 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: did not disappoint. It was really an unbelievable night. And 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: she's magical. I don't know what to say. What she's 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: able to do and for decades of entertainment and music, 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: hit after hit after hit, her amazing children, the beautiful 10 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: video pieces edited together about people dying of AIDS, and 11 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: the beautiful thing about her mother and David, her son's mother, 12 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: and esther, her little daughter dancing, her daughter Mercy playing 13 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: the piano like a virtuoso. Lola was there doing the 14 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: vogue bit. It was, you know, it was. It's an amazing, 15 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: amazing tour and you'll see it and you'll know the 16 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: fact that she's able to do what she does at 17 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: sixty five is astounding and I will adore her forever. 18 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: There you go. I saw a wonderful musical in London 19 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: called Little Big Things, and it's about a young family, 20 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: a family of four boys in London and one of 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: the boys gets injured in a diving accident, one of 22 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: the brothers, and what it does to the family and 23 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: how he finds himself again. And it's very touching and 24 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: very well done. And the performers were epically talented, like 25 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: everyone had a more gorgeous voice than the next, and 26 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: together their harmonies were uplifting. It was one of to 27 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: see that show in the midst of such horrifying news 28 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: in the Mid East, and it doesn't seem to be 29 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: getting better. There's misinformation and hate coming everywhere and people 30 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: trying to present their feelings and I don't know, maybe 31 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: not everyone needs to have a knee jerk reaction, you know, 32 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: on social media. I don't even know. Listen, we have 33 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: a wonderful show today, excellent and fascinating show with Angela Tucker, 34 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: who's a very talented young woman. She is an adoption expert. 35 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: Her new book, You Should Be Grateful is out now 36 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: and it is a wonderful read and it's full of 37 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: very insightful things. It's a great book, it's a great 38 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: conversation and she's an amazingly gifted woman. She did a 39 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: documentary years ago that I loved and we ended up 40 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: talking about and think she was on the radio show. 41 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure, but I know that I've spoken 42 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: to her before and I found her quite enchanting. And 43 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: here we are, Angela Tucker. Take a listen, Angela Tucker, 44 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: welcome here, Welcome to Onward with Rosio. Don good to 45 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: see you. Good to hear of your success and of 46 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: what's happened in your life in the time since closing. 47 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: Thank you. 48 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: Tell everyone a little bit about your family. Tell them 49 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: about your situation. The situation, well, the family. The family 50 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: is complicated, right, You were adopted by a white family, 51 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: and tell everybody about your journey in that area. 52 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: Well, everybody has unique families, right, But yeah, I was 53 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: born in Tennessee, placed in foster care right out of 54 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: the hospital basically, and then was adopted across the country 55 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: to Washington State. My parents, who are white and I'm black. 56 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: They adopted a bunch of kids, all from foster care, 57 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: and they're really great folks and had a great upbringing. 58 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: But in a closed adoption, was just very frustrated that 59 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: I couldn't know who I was related to, where I 60 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: came from, why I had to be adopted all these questions, 61 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 2: and my parents would do the best they could with 62 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 2: me to wonder as well. You know, they were just 63 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: like where did you get your athleticism? And who in 64 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: your family has a sweet tooth like you like that? 65 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: But that was as much as we could do until 66 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: I was twenty one, and I know. 67 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: Would you say the conversation your whole childhood had been 68 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: that open with your parents, where they were inclusive of 69 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: your birth family from the get go, and conversations and 70 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: casual conversation like that. 71 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. They didn't know much and so 72 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: they couldn't give me details, but that alone was really 73 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: comforting that they would. Really they had this attitude of 74 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 2: like we wish we knew more, kind of like we 75 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: love you so much, so we must love the people 76 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: who came from who made you exactly and that is 77 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 2: so wonderful. A lot of my work today kind of 78 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: centers around that issue and that topic and how it's 79 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: actually really hard for some adoptive parents to extend that 80 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: kind of grace to their kids at birth families. 81 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's more prevalent now, you know. My 82 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: children are twenty eight, twenty six, twenty three, twenty and 83 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: ten and all of them adopted. And I think that 84 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: now the conversation is much more inclusive than it was 85 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: when you were a kid. How do you think your 86 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: parents got to such you know, ahead of their time 87 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: ida about adoption. Did they go in wanting open and 88 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: that just was not an option or I know, I. 89 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 2: Do think they were ahead of their time a bit, 90 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: because certainly the mantra you know, eighties when I was adopted, 91 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: but even before that was like shame and secrecy and 92 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 2: the stigma about birth parents. And my parents' philosophy in 93 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 2: their worldview, I think is really never one of ownership 94 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: of the kids. Like I don't think they went in 95 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: adopting all of us thinking like these are going to 96 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: be our kids, But there's more of a philosophy of 97 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 2: like children are all of ours to steward kind of, 98 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: and that's it makes sense for them to adopt through 99 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,559 Speaker 2: foster care too, where it's really obvious that we had 100 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 2: previous beginnings, we had another family. Whereas with some folks 101 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: who adopt, especially like infants or the private adoptions, there's 102 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: that tendency to just think of them as blank slates 103 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 2: and you can mold them through your nurture and that 104 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: nature will like well, the bad parts of their nature 105 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 2: or their genetics will like fade away, which yeah, they 106 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: didn't have that belief. 107 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's wonderful. Some adoptees, I think have a burning 108 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: desire to define their place in adoption lore hm and 109 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: so in the book, in the first part of the 110 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: book is the adoptees manifesto. Can you tell people about that. 111 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: It's just so great. Thank you so much for reading it. 112 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: By the way, Oh, I listen. I'm very interested in 113 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: the time. 114 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: I know you obviously, Yes, I'm so glad to talk 115 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: about it. And I mean, I'm grateful for your advocacy 116 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: around LGBTQ parenting. You know, it was so crazy when 117 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: we weren't allowing gay couples to foster, like what in 118 00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:58,679 Speaker 2: the world. 119 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I know that not only to a foster. 120 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: I had a foster kid. I was not allowed to 121 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: adapt even though I had raised her. 122 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: Ridiculous and that was. 123 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: The law in Florida. And you know, scarily, with all 124 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: of these anti gay laws coming out now, is something 125 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: we have to still fight against. It's really absurd. 126 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, my manifesto that I start with in the book. Basically, 127 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: it was like a combination of all of these statements 128 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: that I was telling myself as I was traveling around 129 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: the country with either the film but the documentary about 130 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 2: my search for my birth parents, or just giving a 131 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: keynote somewhere, and I felt like I always had to 132 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 2: ramp myself up and give myself a little pep talk 133 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: because in the audience, I knew from previous experiences when 134 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: I would share the truth about my opinion on adoption 135 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: that I think it's really tragic that my birth mother 136 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: couldn't keep me. And I would talk about this, I 137 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: would say, my adoptive parents are great, but and I'm 138 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: grateful for them, but I'm not grateful to have been adopted. 139 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: The audience members would often like run up to my 140 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: parents if they were in the audience and be like. 141 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: And say, I'm so sorry she said, yes, are you 142 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: okay with what she said? 143 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: Or I'm so sorry. 144 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: I can't believe she did that. I can't believe her right. 145 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: And so after all you did, you did, you took 146 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: her from nowhere. She would have had nothing, she would 147 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: have been. 148 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: Dead if you hadn't gotten her all the exactly And 149 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: so I was compiling all these like pep talk statements 150 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 2: for myself, things like, yes, Angela, you can love more 151 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: than one set of parents. Yes, Angela, you can wonder 152 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: about your birth parents and still have gratitude for your 153 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 2: adoptive family, Like all of these things that I knew 154 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 2: weren't contradictory. But that's the feedback that I felt like 155 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: I was getting. And so, having read kind of these 156 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 2: statements to myself for long enough, and then I heard 157 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: myself sharing them with other adoptees. As I was mentoring 158 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: other adopted people, I'm like, why didn't I make it 159 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: into some sort of cute thing that you can put 160 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 2: on the wall. So I had a friend design it, 161 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: and it's just like a mantra for me. And I'm 162 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: excited because I've had adoptive parents now by this manifesto 163 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 2: and put it on their wall. One of the statements 164 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: I wrote says, the pre verbal memories you have with 165 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: your first family are real. And then postnatal culture shock exists, 166 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: which is just a word that I made up, postnatal 167 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: culture shock. But curiosity about our roots is innate, and 168 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 2: I love that it has started creating conversations in adoptive families' 169 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: homes because they just have it on the wall that 170 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: I feel like otherwise they may not have had those conversations, 171 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 2: so that feels like a win. 172 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: Well, they wouldn't they wouldn't have known that the conversation 173 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: would be welcome. I do think that I and the 174 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: rest of the world are sold a lie about adoption. 175 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: We're sold a Disney version, fairy tale version. Yes, we're 176 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: told a fairy tale version. And it is just as 177 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: unfair to all of It's unfair to all of the 178 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: in the equation, but the most vulnerable and the one 179 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: with the least power is the baby. Is the infant 180 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: who has no choice over what happens. And you know, 181 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: but I do think adoption is still necessary in our country. 182 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: I agree at a much lower rate. I think we 183 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: still need other people to care for kids at times. Definitely. 184 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 2: I don't know why we need to terminate people's rights 185 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 2: in order to do it. 186 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see that, although although as an adopt 187 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: of parent, I would say, when you are forming and 188 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: raising your family, you don't want to open yourself up 189 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: in maybe legal ways, or you know, like you don't 190 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: when you adopt a child, you don't adopt their whole family, 191 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: and that's a culture thing. In other countries, you sort 192 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: of do you know, in other countries, people the families 193 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: stay in touch, there's visitation. It's not such a legal 194 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: formal thing. But you know, some people, most most women, 195 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: I would say, and tell me if you agree with this, 196 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: most women who give up babies are in crisis. 197 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 2: I would hope. So, I mean, I hope that there's 198 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: not a single adoption that happens where there isn't a 199 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: true need. Yeah, and that's where sometimes I'm talking in 200 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 2: my books about the micro fictions where adoptive parents will 201 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 2: tell their kids, you know, your birth mom loved you 202 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 2: so much she chose adoption for you. That being really 203 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 2: problematic because for so many adoptees, then you grow up 204 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: really not understanding like love, What does love mean? Does 205 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: it mean they give me away? And we need to 206 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: understand why we are where we are, and so the 207 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: truth has to be told in some way, And so 208 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 2: much of my work right now is finding age appropriate 209 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: ways to tell a kid that your biological father murdered 210 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: someone and so they can't parent you or whatever the 211 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: truth is. But we just can't avoid it. But yeah, 212 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: you're right. 213 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more Angela Tucker. I think 214 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: think the questions come up, you know, the questions came 215 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: up for my kids. My seven year old son said 216 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: to me right after a fairy accident in New York 217 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: where there was a woman who was next to a 218 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: man who got his leg amputated, and she ended up 219 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: saving his life and then she disappeared. And I was 220 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: reading this to him in the in the car on 221 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: the way to work one day, and he said, Mommy, 222 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: that lady must have been an angel. And I said, 223 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: I think you're right, Monnie, I think she was an angel. 224 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: And then he said, why didn't my birth mother want? 225 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: Yes? 226 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: Right, because he was thinking of the angel and the 227 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: love and the you know, And I came up with 228 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: something sort of on the for that. I was not prepared, 229 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: but I said, well, Parker, I could tell you this 230 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: that your birth mother was not ready to be a mommy. 231 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: And God looked inside the tummy and saw that there 232 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: was a mix up, and she listened to God because 233 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: she's a good, good person. And God found you me 234 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: because as I'm your match. 235 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: Hmm. 236 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: Now that's what's stuck for that day, you know. And 237 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: I heard him telling his friends a couple of months 238 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: later that you know, some mommies aren't ready to be mommies. Yeah, 239 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: and then the mommies who are they get to be them. 240 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 241 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, hmmm. You know, now, in hindsight, I'm not 242 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: sure that I hit it out of the park that 243 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: I think it's especially. 244 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: Difficult being like a famous celebrity for you. 245 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, because yeah, well just. 246 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: The title of my book, you should be grateful, like automatically, 247 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: I think any adoptive parents, when people hear the word 248 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: adoptive mom, adoptive dad, they just think these people are 249 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 2: like saints. 250 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: Saints, yes exactly, are like they do. And people have 251 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: said to me all the time, you're so generous. I'm like, 252 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: they saved me. I didn't save them, without a doubt. 253 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: They were each like a life preserver holding me up, 254 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: you know they I did not do anything gracious. I 255 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: was the beneficiary of another woman's generosity. But whether the 256 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: word generosity is applicable there could be on that absolutely right, 257 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: was it generosity or was it crisis and a lack 258 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: of support in our country to women in need and 259 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: our lack of support with prenatal care and posting kid. 260 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: That you shouldn't count that. Yeah, I think this is Yeah, 261 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: sometimes adoptive parents have a hard time admitting that that's 262 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: the truth, you know that maybe it's not generosity, but 263 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: it's the systemic inequities, it's poverty, which I think poverty 264 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: should never be a reason why someone has to place 265 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: a kid for adoption. But from an adoptive parents perspective, 266 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: it's hard, perhaps because the child is like the love 267 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: of your life. You know, I've seen you in Dakota, 268 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 2: so sweet, she like loves to give you, like practically. 269 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: Exactly every day she attacks. 270 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: So it can be hard to both love your child 271 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 2: like there yours and kind of belong to you, which 272 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: I don't like that language, and at the same time 273 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 2: understand that the birth parents perhaps could have parented them 274 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 2: if we had things set up a little bit different 275 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 2: in our society. 276 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't think that's always the case, 277 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: but I do think that that the systemic reality of 278 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: adoption can't be ignored. I mean, it can't be ignored, 279 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: and it often is. You know, recently I fell into 280 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: adoptee tick. I know you have, Oh honey, I got 281 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 1: beat up pretty bad in there, you know, I went 282 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: in there lodiodop do adoption, I'm for adoption, let me 283 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: go in, and it was like Satan has arrived in 284 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: our mixed I was totally unprepared for the lashing that 285 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: I received there. But I think there is in some 286 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: ways an unfair assessment of adoptive parents from adoptees right, 287 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: not of their own, of us in general as a unit. 288 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that it's like unfair, but I absolutely 289 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: agree that many adoptees that finally have a pulpit to speak, 290 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: have lumped adoptive parents all into one. It's not individual 291 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 2: and that all yeah, in the ways that many adoptees 292 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: were yelling out all the time, one adoptee story does 293 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: not make everyone's story. Like we are unique and we 294 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: want everyone to understand that. I do agree that we 295 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 2: haven't lent that same sense to adoptive parents, but I 296 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: kind of think we're in our terrible twos. As an adoptee, 297 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 2: I agree. 298 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: I kind of said that too. I said, I feel 299 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: like it's not like you don't it's like you you 300 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: are not able to hand any criticism or pushback right 301 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: so that it's almost like they were skinless. Their nerves 302 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: were right there, right, and I felt like I wanted 303 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: to hug them, truthful. I wanted to go, come here 304 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: like you had been with a two year old, exactly 305 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: what happened to you? Come here? You're okay, tell me, 306 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: you know, yes, But but it was an interesting lesson 307 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: and it was not a topic that I had stayed 308 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: away from before, so of course I was willing to engage. 309 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: And then i'd say something else that I thought was right, 310 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: and they would be that's wrong too, And Okay, I'm 311 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,719 Speaker 1: gonna tap out. Okay, I'm just gonna tap out and 312 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: do a little podcast on my own. And here you are. 313 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: There's wonderful, a wonderful part. Here's how I read a book, 314 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: just so you know, I just fold it right where 315 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: I have and I pointed to a lawn. And I 316 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: loved when you were talking about this girl Addie that 317 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: you mentor and what she said. You know, she wrote 318 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: through her parents' email and it said, I really want 319 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: to talk to you because you're kind of like me. 320 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: You are brown and grew up with white parents, and 321 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: you were adopted from foster care. I want to know 322 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: if you can help me find out how much I costed. 323 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: I've asked my parents, but my parents don't exactly tell me. 324 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: Do you know how much you've costed? Yes? Do you 325 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 1: think we were the same price? 326 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 2: My mentoring relationship with her name isn't Addie, but it's 327 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: Addie in the book. 328 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: Okay. 329 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 2: It was just so precious. She has such a huge 330 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: vocabulary and imagination, and it's so interesting when you kind 331 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 2: of get that combination of someone who's adopted has this 332 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 2: unnatural beginning to their life, and like their brain works 333 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 2: a little bit differently, whether it's because of some trauma 334 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 2: in utero or because of neurodivergence or something like that. 335 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: But I have so many adoptees that I mentor who 336 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 2: have this unique quality about themselves, and they're able to 337 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 2: have really big conversations like sometimes the adults aren't even 338 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: ready for. So, yeah, how much did I cost? Question? 339 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: For her? We ended up talking about I was teaching 340 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 2: her about what a home study is and how adoptive 341 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: parents have to get one done to make sure that 342 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: they're safe and will love you and all of these things, 343 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,479 Speaker 2: and that that costs money, you know, And so we 344 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 2: were having that conversation, which I think she really loved 345 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 2: too to just understand. Like for so many adoptees, the 346 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: question really is, how does this all work right? 347 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: Right? How did I get to you? 348 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 2: I think I wrote about this in my book, But 349 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 2: when I got to meet my foster mom, who, similarly 350 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: to you, loves loving on babies, it was an overwhelming 351 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 2: experience meeting my foster mom. I mean truly, my body 352 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: felt like what I thought it would feel like meeting 353 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 2: my birth mom. I was just like, I know this person. 354 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 2: I wanted to be really close to her, like touching 355 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 2: her leg when we were out at dinner I had 356 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: I couldn't get close enough. We're very different politically, ideologically, 357 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: our world views are really different, Like we don't agree 358 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: probably on many things, but my goodness, I want to 359 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: be near her all the time. I actually credit her 360 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: for my ability to have a healthy marriage and attach 361 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 2: well to others. My adoptive parents surely had a lot 362 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 2: to do with that as well. But I think that 363 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 2: time period of zero to one, when she just gave 364 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 2: the unconditional value right. It wasn't the sense that I 365 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: hear from some foster parents where it's like they say, 366 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna let myself get too attached because it's 367 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 2: going to be so hard when I have to give 368 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: them away. My foster parents like did the opposite, and 369 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 2: I am so thankful for it. 370 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: So it's like she felt like home to you. 371 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 2: She really did. She does. I wish she didn't live 372 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: across the country. It's right, an amazing, that's wonderful. 373 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: Speaking of that, of what did you How was the 374 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: experience of meeting your birth mother in regards to what 375 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: you perceived it might be? And maybe this is a 376 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: good time to talk about ghost kingdom and the whole 377 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: concept of it, the ghost kingdom. 378 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, my whole life growing up in this 379 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: closed adoption, I had to fantasize and imagine who my 380 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 2: birth parents were and where I came from. So for me, 381 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: my birth dad was Magic Johnson because he has this 382 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 2: humongous smile just like I do, and he plays basketball 383 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 2: just like I did. And I decided that halle Berry 384 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: was my birth mother. I don't have any great reasoning 385 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 2: other than like, why not. 386 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: She's gorgeous and why not chose that halle Berry too, frankly, And. 387 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: So those were my peoples. When I finally found my 388 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: birth mother and knew I was going to meet her. 389 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 2: I I wasn't hoping for like Halle Berry. I knew 390 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: more than that. I knew that my birth mother struggled 391 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 2: in so many ways, but I certainly didn't expect her 392 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 2: to be really kind of gruff and deny me. She 393 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 2: just said, I don't know who you are. You need 394 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: to leave. You're not my I'm not related to you. 395 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: And now wait a second, let's go back. Did you 396 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: call her? Did she know you were looking for? Did 397 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: you find her on an adoptee connect board? How did 398 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: you find her? 399 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 2: I found my biological father first, because he has a 400 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: really unique name, and I found him through the Internet. 401 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: There was one spot in my adoption paperwork where his 402 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 2: first name was not whited out. They accidentally forgot and 403 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 2: so that name and the name is Oterius, I plugged 404 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 2: in with. I knew his last name was four letters long, 405 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 2: and so I had written Oterius Chattanooga, Tennessee, where I 406 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 2: was born, And up came this paper about a guy 407 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: who was struggling and his name was Oterius Bell, and 408 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 2: I was like. 409 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: Same, God, You're like Colombo, look at you? How did 410 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: you do The. 411 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: Only person in Johanna, Tennessee with that name, so I 412 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: found him and then he kind of led us to her. 413 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 2: But I also had her address, So with that address, 414 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 2: I sent picture of myself a letter and then we 415 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: showed up. So it wasn't like she had no idea. 416 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: No idea, right, but you had not communicated with her before, you. 417 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 2: Had no way to do it. I wish I did. 418 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 2: I wish I could have done it some other way. 419 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 2: That's one of the big injustices. I feel like from 420 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: the agency's standpoint that they sure could have supported me 421 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 2: more and not had to ambush my birth mother. 422 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: But correct I. So she was unprepared and she was unkind. 423 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the kindness part in my ghost kingdom. 424 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: You know, I have a pretty peppy disposition, like smile 425 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: a lot, running around. I'm always just quite happy in general. 426 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 2: And so my parents, I think throughout my whole life 427 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 2: would assume that as much for my birth family too, 428 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 2: like you must have gotten this from somewhere. You wake 429 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 2: up in the morning and you're just like ready to 430 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: run around and where did you Where did that come from? 431 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: So it was a surprise when my birth mother was 432 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: had that disposition. 433 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you had sort of in your ghost 434 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: Kingdom fantasy of what your family of origin was. They 435 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: were like you, yeah, And to find that they were 436 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: not probably crushing. 437 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: Yes, although my birth dad and I are so similar, 438 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 2: so that was really exciting. It was also surprising because 439 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: I had really focused most of my energy on my 440 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: birth mother, and I really don't know why that is, 441 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 2: but I had not really thought of my birth dad 442 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 2: much at all. And so, yeah, I wanted I wanted 443 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: a mirror. I had never had one. I wanted it 444 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 2: so badly, so important, so important. My parents have one 445 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: biological daughter, and she has these beautiful blue eyes, just 446 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 2: like my dad, and so my whole life I would 447 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 2: listen to everyone else's comment on their blue eyes and 448 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 2: how they were so alike, and it's so true and 449 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: they're beautiful, but I just hearing that, I would just 450 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 2: long for it, like somebody tell me that I look 451 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 2: like someone else. 452 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: Exactly, never looking into a face similar to yours. Your 453 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: whole life has got to be some kind of trauma. 454 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it really is. So did you 455 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: ever make peace with it? Did it ever come around? 456 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: And she said, hey, I needed some time and now 457 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: we're okay. 458 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 2: Exactly a year went by where she had to tell 459 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 2: everybody that she had done this. She had kept her 460 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: pregnancy a secret, so no one knew. And I have 461 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: three other siblings. She has three kids. There's actually four 462 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 2: one we can't find still, but they didn't know, and 463 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 2: so she just had to make amends all over the place. 464 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 2: So she took a year to do that and then 465 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: called me and said, yes, I am your birth mother 466 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 2: and I want you to come back, and I want 467 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 2: to meet you and I want to do it right. 468 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 2: So we had this big barbecue. It was really cool, 469 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: and it was just the most beautiful thing seeing my 470 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 2: mom and my birth mom together and each of them 471 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: telling each other, like my mom my birth mom was 472 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 2: saying to my mom like, thank you so much for 473 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 2: raising her, at the same time that my adoptive mom 474 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: was telling my birth mom thank you so much for 475 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 2: having her. And they were basically just saying like, thank 476 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 2: you for doing what I couldn't do. And I loved 477 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 2: that feels whole for me seeing both of those women 478 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: in the same place caring for each other. Is I 479 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 2: still picture that moment? I love it? 480 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: And how is your relationship now? Did it change your 481 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: relationship at all with your parents? Because I was never 482 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: one of those parents who felt threatened by the children 483 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: looking for their birth parents. 484 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: My parents recently went on a road trip and they 485 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 2: went and saw my birth mom and Biloxi, Mississippi, and 486 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: they texted me a photo of all of them together 487 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: getting dinner. It was so cute. I loved it. But yeah, 488 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 2: we definitely started. We are still in touch. My birth 489 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 2: father passed away, so I had seven years with him, 490 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: but I am close to the rest of his family, 491 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: my aunts and uncles, and they love having me as 492 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: part of the family. It's a really beautiful extended family, 493 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: but it's marred by the difficulty of me not really 494 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: knowing my culture and not knowing our family history that 495 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 2: kind of knows. 496 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: It's it's definitely, it's a definite hard thing. My daughter 497 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: Chelsea has had a hard time, and you know, she's 498 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: doing well now, thank God. But you know, when there's 499 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: substance in uterow, it's a challenge that people lie to 500 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: you about always. Nobody says, here's the possibility or here's 501 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: the probability of what will occur. You know, I don't 502 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: know so many friends, so many unknowns, but I mean 503 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: everyone says. 504 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 2: For you, the people the adoptive parents who I work 505 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 2: with that have the greatest difficulty saying what you said, Like, 506 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: you know, I'm not intimidated or threatened by my kids 507 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 2: biological parents. Those folks are often people who have struggled 508 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: with infertility. They're often heterosexual couples and haven't kind of 509 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: dealt with the sadness that they couldn't have a biological 510 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: child that they wanted so bad. I feel like gay 511 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 2: parents oftentimes don't come in with that same feeling and 512 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 2: therefore are a bit more open. 513 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: You know, No, And I knew, I mean, you know, 514 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: all my siblings have kids, so it's a very Irish 515 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: fertile family. I knew I could have had a baby 516 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: if I wanted to. I just knew. There was a 517 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: teacher in seventh grade, which was two years after my 518 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: mother died, who took me under her wing, and you know, 519 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: got me my first training bar and got me tampons 520 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: when I got my period, And yeah, she was a mother, 521 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, And she too died of breast cancer. But 522 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: when I was much older, and I already had most 523 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: of my children, and so I knew that love made 524 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: of family. I didn't think you need to have the blood. 525 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: And I also, you know, was terrified of giving birth. 526 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: I had seen her, that teacher of mine, in labor 527 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: and I was watching her other children, and I thought, 528 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: God almighty, I was sixteen years old. I thought, I 529 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: am never pushing a watermelon out of my Hubah. I 530 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: don't care what you say, I'm not doing it. You know, 531 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: she had like an old birth thing. It was terrible. 532 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: So it is interesting you had a sense of adoption 533 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 2: slash foster care with your mom dying at a young age. 534 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: That really, yes, yes, And we had neighbors take care 535 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: of us, We had teachers take care of us. You know. 536 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: My father was at work. My grandmother was non couldn't 537 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: see and couldn't really hear, and she was there, which 538 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: made it great to come home not to an empty house. 539 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: But it wasn't like she was a grandmother who could 540 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: cook or you know, you'd walk down the stairs, she'd go, 541 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: timmy doll, who is that Marie Eddie? She'd like name 542 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: all the kids in the fit because she couldn't see 543 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: more than ten feet, you know, but she was there. 544 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: Nana was always there. And when my mother was gone, 545 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, was her mother. She had lived with us 546 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: my whole life, and that was painful as a little 547 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: ten year old to see the pain on the seventy 548 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: something year anoman's face. That was unspoken because that was 549 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: the Irish way, you know, talk about the death and 550 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: the family, you know, talk about what's going on in 551 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: the house. 552 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 2: You got to just yeah, it's such formative therapy, like 553 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: formative years for you to have that experience. And then 554 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: and it kind of tracks with the research that I've done. 555 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 2: You know, families who are people who want to become 556 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: adoptive parents, who've had nuclear really kind of stable, nuclear 557 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 2: family lives their whole life. It is a huge pivot 558 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: to understand other people comparent other people's kids and that's fine, 559 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: Like that's not they're not used to it. 560 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Culturally, I think different cultures people respond in 561 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: different ways. You know, I don't know if you find, 562 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: but but you know, I have found in my friends 563 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: with Latin families or Black families, the the uh kind 564 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: of the cultural communication so different than Irish Catholic families 565 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: from the seventies right where where there was no Oprah 566 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: yet there was no let's talk about our feelings. There 567 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: was you know, nobody was saying oh, there's the mother's gone. 568 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: And when you talk about prenatal what did you name 569 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: it again? Prenatal culture natal culture shock, just like postnatal 570 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: culture shock, right that. Yeah, I totally get that. I 571 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: totally understand. You know, when when Parker, I read everything 572 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: I could read when I was adopting Parker, and they 573 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: said how the baby really knows the birth mother's scent 574 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: and heartbeat and and but mostly the smell. And they 575 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: recommended that when you get a baby newborn, that you 576 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: make sure you do skin to skin and that you 577 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: don't shower for yourself because they will get your smell 578 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: for like seven days. And I did the whole thing, 579 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I was like smelly, and I thought, 580 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: this is going to imprint him. He's going to imprint 581 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: to me, you know. But I did anything that I 582 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: read that could try to negate the primal wound of adoption. 583 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: But of course there's that famous book and it is 584 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: a primal wound. And I think that it's it's an 585 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: unfair or ignorant of adoptive parents to not know that. 586 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 2: And it's really unrealistic and almost kind of hurtful to 587 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 2: try to just like sweep over it. Or pretend like 588 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 2: it can be fixed. I think part of what I 589 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 2: love working with adoptees mentoring adoptees is there's not that 590 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: sense that I think we feel with adoptive parents sometimes, 591 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: which is like that they want to fix us or 592 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 2: fix the parts that we got from our birth parents 593 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: that are negative. And instead it's like we talked to 594 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 2: each other and kind of just understand that some things 595 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 2: just are. You know that you can't go back and 596 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 2: change the things that our birth parents did when we 597 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 2: were inside of them, and that's sad, and that's period, 598 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 2: end of story. There's not a fix to it. I 599 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 2: think that's why I'm building this mentoring society, because therapy 600 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 2: is so helpful for so many adoptees, of course, but 601 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 2: I how there was this need for something in between, 602 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 2: not a friendship, but not a therapist, because there were 603 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 2: certain things that we don't try to fix. They just are. 604 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 2: And the people that are best at sitting with it, 605 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 2: I feel like our other adoptees who get it. 606 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, it's interesting, although it's totally not the 607 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: same and I'm not saying it is, so please adoptee TikTok, 608 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 1: don't attack me. But you know, I see it through 609 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: the need of my youngest child, who has autism. She 610 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: wants to be around other autistic kids all the time. 611 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: And I said, do you know why you want to? 612 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: She goes, Mom, it's my culture. Oh she could say that, 613 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,720 Speaker 1: and I was like, she said that at ten years old, 614 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: it's my culture. And then when I took her to 615 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: one of these vidcons where all the kids who watch 616 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: the same video games, you know, it's like an animated 617 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: show with objects, and I'm like, okay, you know, they say, 618 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: get into their world as much as you can. So 619 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: off we went to this eight She's sitting there with 620 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: so many kids so much like her, and she looked 621 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: at me and she said, this is it. 622 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 2: Oh just I was like feeling at peace, feeling at home. 623 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 2: This happens in I don't know if you know this, 624 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 2: but there are these things called transracial adoption camps that 625 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 2: happen all over US. I do, Okay, this phenomenon is 626 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 2: so clearly seen there where there are these I can 627 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 2: imagine wicking brown kids all over the place, and one 628 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 2: of them will yell to their mom and a white 629 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 2: person will respond like, what do you need? And nobody 630 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 2: flinches or goes up to the kid AND's like, wait, 631 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: that's your mom. Wait when in the world. 632 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, they just and so there's this freedom where 633 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: they can just play soccer or do the rope's course 634 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 1: and yell for their mom and not have to worry 635 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: about that moment where people are like, huh, how does 636 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:27,240 Speaker 1: that work? Yeah exactly, so beautiful exactly, and everyone finding 637 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: acceptance in their in their story and others like them. 638 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: I mean, the Internet has been wonderful and terrible in 639 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: that way, but the wonderful way is to connect people 640 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: who who want that sense of community and who find 641 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: it in the similarity of their livestyle. So what you're 642 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: doing is very important, Angela Tucker, and I'm thankful that 643 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: you are here and the book that everybody can go 644 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: out and buy is you should be grateful Stories of 645 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: Race Identity and transracial Adoption. Angela Tucker, you were delightful. 646 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,760 Speaker 2: Thank you, Rosie. This is so fun. 647 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: We'll be back with questions from you the loyal listeners. Well, 648 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: thanks for sticking around. I hope that you found our 649 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: conversation fascinating and enlightening. I sure did. Now it's question 650 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: time hit it, Hey, Rosie. 651 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 3: This is Gerard and I'm calling you. Calling you, I'm 652 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 3: leaving you a message from Paris, the one in France, 653 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 3: and I just wanted to tell you that I'm so 654 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 3: happy that you're back interviewing, and it's so refreshing to 655 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,919 Speaker 3: hear your sense of humor and your outlook on life 656 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 3: again since I've been watching you forever. I'm also from 657 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 3: Long Island, New York, so it's also nice and comforting 658 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 3: to hear your accent, which I'm sure you don't hear 659 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 3: a lot, but it is wonderful to hear being so 660 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 3: far away from my friends and family, but I do 661 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 3: love it here in France. However, I do experience a 662 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 3: lot of misunderstanding as I'm learning the language. I don't 663 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 3: speak French, so I'm currently trying to, but I often 664 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 3: misunderstood incredibly and I wanted to know what situations you've 665 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 3: ever been in where you've been completely misunderstood you and 666 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 3: how you dealt with it, and were you ever really 667 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 3: sort of understood from that experience. But thank you so much. 668 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 3: I appreciate hearing you and all the wonderful conversations you've 669 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 3: been having. Thanks again, Bye for oh. 670 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: War avoirrad a very nice message, Thank you, sweetheart. Well 671 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: how did you end up in Paris? How did you 672 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: end up there? What do you do in Paris? Is 673 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: one able to live in Paris and work? Or do 674 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: you have dual citizenship or something? I have a lot 675 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: of questions for you, I really do. But what can 676 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: I say? Not understood? I remember this from a long 677 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: time ago, when Patty Lapone opened in London Sunset Boulevard. 678 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: I went over to see her, and afterwards a bunch 679 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: of New Yorkers and Patty and I think Scott Whitman 680 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: and Mark Shaman and a bunch of us Walter Bobby, 681 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 1: we were walking through the theater district to go to 682 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: the Joe Allens that I think was open then. I 683 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: don't know if it's still open now in London. But 684 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 1: we were all talking saying how great we thought she was, 685 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: and there was a man in front of us and 686 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: he goes, will you stop speaking? Your accent is terrible. 687 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: I can't believe it. You'll make him all EASi please, 688 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm really sorry, that's just the 689 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: way I talk. And he's like, well don't it's horrible. 690 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: So I don't know if that's about understanding me or 691 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: just he was horrified by my New York accent that 692 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: you love so much. So you know, different strokes for 693 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: different folks, Gerard. But whenever I am in a place 694 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: where someone doesn't speak the language, I'm one of those 695 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: annoying people that overdo trying to communicate or like, I 696 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: know a very minimal amount of sign language, and if 697 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: someone's death there, of course I got to show them 698 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: like ten words. I know. It's a very annoying part 699 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: of me. You know, there's a whole like list of 700 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: things that are really annoying that I do that. After 701 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: I do them again, I go, God, that was annoying. 702 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: You shouldn't do that. But doesn't seem to help, Grard, 703 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to help. Thank you for your lovely message. 704 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: I really do appreciate it, and we got time for 705 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: one more, dude. 706 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 4: I think the universe hands you gifts when you need 707 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 4: them the most. In your podcast was a gift to me. 708 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,399 Speaker 4: I'm going through a hard time selling a house and 709 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,240 Speaker 4: moving back to Alabama to take care of my family, 710 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 4: and you have gotten me through some stressful days. 711 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 1: I did want to. 712 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 4: Tell you were talking about Dakota and how you were 713 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 4: having a hard time remembering to say they and them, 714 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 4: and it made me feel so much better. I try 715 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,280 Speaker 4: to understand those issues. I hate to call them issues. 716 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 4: They're not issues, but you know what I mean. I 717 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 4: try to understand and be cognizant. But there's so much now, 718 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,879 Speaker 4: there's so much that we have to be careful with, 719 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 4: and it was refreshing to hear that sometimes even you 720 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 4: get it wrong. That probably sounds weird, but I just 721 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 4: want you to know it made me feel better. 722 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: So thank you for that. 723 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 4: And my question is, what the heck you turn fifty 724 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 4: and got a new baby. When I turned fifty, I 725 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 4: got a tattoo and like turned heatonus for ten years. 726 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,080 Speaker 4: Well that was when I turned forty, but anyway, I 727 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 4: was just curious what made you decide at fifty years 728 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 4: old to adopt a new baby. Now I'm all about 729 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 4: the babies. I love them too, but I'm kind of 730 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 4: glad mine are grown now. 731 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: Thanks dude. I didn't get your name because she called 732 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 1: me dude, so I'll call you a dude right back. Yeah, 733 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: you know, I do struggle with the pronouns. And my 734 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: kid said, why don't you get they tattooed on your wrist, 735 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,920 Speaker 1: and I did, and they said recently, I guess that 736 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: tattoo didn't work, you know, because they still mess up. 737 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,439 Speaker 1: But I'm trying very hard, and I know it's very 738 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: important them, and you know, I'm riding that wave with 739 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,800 Speaker 1: them on the same board, getting us safely to the shore, 740 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: you know. And why did I adopt again at fifty? 741 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:20,280 Speaker 1: You know, kids are the best things in my life 742 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,720 Speaker 1: and world, all of them, all five of them, and 743 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: I can't imagine what my life would have been like 744 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: without them. And Dakota came to me in a special 745 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 1: way and there we were together and it felt like 746 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:48,399 Speaker 1: the right thing. And it's been the best blessing, the 747 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: best gift in my life because it's changed the way 748 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: I see the world and being able to stretch that 749 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: muscle of the way we see things, being able to 750 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: read frame and to understand. Their brain is different, the 751 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: way the brain functions is different, their experience in the 752 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: world is different, and their autism, although often a challenge, 753 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: has been a gift. So thank you for your kind 754 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: words and hope that you're okay moving back to take 755 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,800 Speaker 1: care of your family. That's a beautiful thing. It's hard. 756 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:35,319 Speaker 2: You know. 757 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,399 Speaker 1: We enter the world and they take care of us, 758 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: and they exit and we take care of them. And 759 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 1: that's the journey of life. Right, Hey, listen, send us 760 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 1: your questions, comments, and voice memo. Two Onward Rosie at 761 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. I feel bad that some of the 762 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: longer ones we can't get in because they're too lengthy. 763 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: So try to keep it as short as you can 764 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,719 Speaker 1: so that I can answer answer you. If they're a 765 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 1: long question, your long build up, it's hard to edit. 766 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:10,239 Speaker 1: So next week, my buddy, my friend, playwright extraordinaire, screenwriter, 767 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: actor and drag legend, Charles Bush. His new memoir Leading 768 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 1: Lady is a tell all. He even tells all about 769 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: our time together working on Taboo on Broadway with Boy 770 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: George and Boy. That's a juicy chapter. Until next week, 771 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,720 Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening. This is Onward with Rosie 772 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:30,200 Speaker 1: O'Donnell