WEBVTT - The Ghost Princes and Richard III

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of I Heart Radio

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<v Speaker 1>and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 1>In the BBC's History magazine, History Extra ran a poll

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<v Speaker 1>online asking readers to vote for their favorite historical mystery.

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<v Speaker 1>There were twenty choices, ranging from the purpose of Stonehenge

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<v Speaker 1>to the translation of the Voytage manuscript to the final

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<v Speaker 1>resting place of Jesus Christ's body. With twenty choices, they

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<v Speaker 1>probably anticipated that it was going to be a close race,

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<v Speaker 1>one where perhaps a few front runners emerged. One of

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<v Speaker 1>the mysteries wiped the floor with the other choices. More

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<v Speaker 1>than one in three readers voted for the Exact Say mystery,

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<v Speaker 1>which ended up at a final percentage more than double

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<v Speaker 1>the votes of the mystery that came in second place.

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<v Speaker 1>The first place winner for the History Extra poll. The

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<v Speaker 1>historical mystery that captivated and compelled readers beyond wanting to

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<v Speaker 1>know what happened to the actual Jesus Christ. Was this

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<v Speaker 1>what happened to the Princes in the Tower. In fourteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighty three, two boys, the sons and heirs of the

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<v Speaker 1>late King Edward the Fourth, were put into the Tower

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<v Speaker 1>of London, ostensibly to prepare and keep safe before the

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<v Speaker 1>older boy, King Edward the Fifth coronation. But while they

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<v Speaker 1>were safely behind the walls of the castle fortress, their

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<v Speaker 1>uncle and the regent, Richard, Duke of Gloucester, announced that

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<v Speaker 1>new information had emerged that the boys were actually legitimate.

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<v Speaker 1>That summer, the man coronated was actually Richard himself, who

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<v Speaker 1>became King Richard the Third. He reigned briefly until Henry

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<v Speaker 1>Tudor bested him in battle and claimed the throne, beginning

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<v Speaker 1>the Tudor dynasty and more or less ending the civil

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<v Speaker 1>war that had raged for decades over the English throne

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<v Speaker 1>known as the War of the Roses. People had seen

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<v Speaker 1>the two princes, they weren't quite princes, but we'll get

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<v Speaker 1>to that later, playing outside on the lawns of the

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<v Speaker 1>Tower of London that summer in but then their servants

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<v Speaker 1>were dismissed. The princes were moved deeper within the grounds

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<v Speaker 1>of the castle to the towers inner apartments, and then

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<v Speaker 1>one day no one ever saw them again. The two

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<v Speaker 1>doomed princes have come famous over the centuries through depictions

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<v Speaker 1>in art. Perhaps the most iconic painting of the boys

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<v Speaker 1>was done in eighteen seventy eight by Sir John Everett Millay,

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<v Speaker 1>and it features the boys dressed in all black. They

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<v Speaker 1>look younger than they would have actually been twelve and nine,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the painting they're almost cherubic under halos of

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<v Speaker 1>blonde hair, as the painter portrays them their innocence, martyrs

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<v Speaker 1>of the cruel ambitions of the grown men around them.

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<v Speaker 1>Most people probably learned the story of the Princess through Shakespeare.

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<v Speaker 1>In his play Richard the Third, Shakespeare portrays the king

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<v Speaker 1>as a scheming, villainous hunchback who lurks in the shadows,

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<v Speaker 1>waiting for his moment to claim power and eventually to

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<v Speaker 1>murder his own nephews in order to secure the crown.

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<v Speaker 1>The Lord Chancellor Thomas Moore perhaps wrote the most famous

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<v Speaker 1>historical account of Richard the Third, similarly portraying him as

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<v Speaker 1>a murderous tyrant. It was More who first named names

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<v Speaker 1>when it came to the Prince's alleged murderers, and he

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<v Speaker 1>added the compelling details that their young bodies were buried

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<v Speaker 1>under a staircase in the Tower of London. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>important to remember that both of those men. More and

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<v Speaker 1>Shakespeare were writing under the Tutor dynasty. History is told

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<v Speaker 1>by the victors, after all, and Richard the Third was

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<v Speaker 1>the end of his family's line. When Henry Tutor defeated

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<v Speaker 1>him in battle and became King Henry the Seventh, his

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<v Speaker 1>claim was pretty weak. There were other older families that really,

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<v Speaker 1>arguably should have gotten the crown ahead of him, and

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<v Speaker 1>his claim was really predicated on the fact that his

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<v Speaker 1>victory over Richard the Third in the Battle of bosworth

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<v Speaker 1>Field was God's will anointing him king. His power relied

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<v Speaker 1>then on Richard the Third being a villainous usurper. Otherwise

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<v Speaker 1>he Henry the seventh, would be the usurper. And so

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<v Speaker 1>did Richard the Third actually order the death of his

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<v Speaker 1>own nephews in order to secure his crown. Or was

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<v Speaker 1>he manipulated after death into a villain by the Tutor

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<v Speaker 1>pr machine when the boys might have been killed by

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<v Speaker 1>them the Tutors all along, or did the boys survive

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<v Speaker 1>and run away to live peaceful lives as park rangers

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<v Speaker 1>in pastoral England. Over the years, the question of the

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<v Speaker 1>Princes in the Tower has baffled and fascinated historians and

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<v Speaker 1>casual hobbyists alike, to the point where factions have formed

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<v Speaker 1>and become deeply entrenched, another smaller scale war of the

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<v Speaker 1>roses happening among the history set. Here are the facts

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<v Speaker 1>as we know them, that two boys came into the

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<v Speaker 1>Tower of London, the sons of a king who should

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<v Speaker 1>have been protected and powerful. But power is only as

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<v Speaker 1>meaningful as one's ability to wield it, and kings are

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<v Speaker 1>only kings so long as those around them choose to

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<v Speaker 1>obey them. Whether you believe in murder or tutor plots

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<v Speaker 1>or daring escapes, the heart of the matter is a

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<v Speaker 1>reminder that the divine right to rule is fragile. Kings

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<v Speaker 1>can be toppled by rumors as well as swords. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>they're toppled by both. We will likely never find a

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<v Speaker 1>definite answer to the question of what happened to the

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<v Speaker 1>princes in the tower. Let me get that out of

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<v Speaker 1>the way upfront, lest you listen to this whole episode

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<v Speaker 1>hoping that I'm going to be the one to crack

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<v Speaker 1>this thing wide open. Of course, I do have my

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<v Speaker 1>own theory as to what happened, but I also believe

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<v Speaker 1>that the killing of the two boys was a little

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<v Speaker 1>less pat and a little less villainous than Shakespeare made

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<v Speaker 1>it seem it was an era of kill or be killed,

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<v Speaker 1>and with the walls closing in on him, Richard the

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<v Speaker 1>Third had a decision to make I'm Dana Schwartz, and

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<v Speaker 1>this is noble blood. When the man we now know

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<v Speaker 1>as Richard the Third was born in fourteen fifty two,

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<v Speaker 1>he was almost an afterthought. He was his parents fourth

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<v Speaker 1>child and third son. They already had their air and

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<v Speaker 1>their spare. In a family chronicle published when Richard was

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<v Speaker 1>a child, their only note on the young Richard was

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<v Speaker 1>that he quote liveth Yet Richard's father was also confusingly

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<v Speaker 1>named Richard the d of York, also known as Richard Plantagenet.

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<v Speaker 1>He was an incredibly important nobleman at the time, inheriting

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<v Speaker 1>a claim to the throne through his own mother, which

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<v Speaker 1>made him a key figure in the War of the Roses,

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<v Speaker 1>which began unfolding in earnest during Richard the Third's childhood.

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<v Speaker 1>Entire books can be and have been written about the

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<v Speaker 1>War of the Roses, but I'm going to do an

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly brief cursory overview just to give you an idea

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<v Speaker 1>of how complicated the seemingly simple question of who the

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<v Speaker 1>rightful King of England was so here are the crib notes.

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<v Speaker 1>We begin with King Edward the Third, who reigned until

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<v Speaker 1>thirteen seventy seven. He had eight sons and five daughters,

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<v Speaker 1>so as you might imagine, there's plenty of legitimate and

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<v Speaker 1>illegitimate royal blood swirling around in people ready to claim

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<v Speaker 1>royal ancestry. His oldest son is his heir, Edward the

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<v Speaker 1>Black Prince, and the Black Prince has his own son

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<v Speaker 1>the next in line. But then Edward the Black Prince dies,

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<v Speaker 1>and so when King Edward the Third dies, the throne

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<v Speaker 1>goes to his grandchild, Richard the Second. The problem is

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<v Speaker 1>Richard the Second is a ten year old boy at

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<v Speaker 1>this point, and when there's a child in charge, especially

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<v Speaker 1>a child like Richard the Second, who was speculated to

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<v Speaker 1>be later either insane or suffering from a personality disorder,

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<v Speaker 1>other people tend to want to move into that power vacuum.

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<v Speaker 1>The War of the Roses becomes so called by future

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<v Speaker 1>generations because the two families involved, the Yorks and the Lancasters,

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<v Speaker 1>both had roses for their family symbols, the white rose

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<v Speaker 1>of York and the red of Lancaster. Both families were

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<v Speaker 1>descended from cadet branches of King Edward the Third cadet branches,

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<v Speaker 1>meaning descended from his younger sons. Personally, I'm a very

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<v Speaker 1>visual thinker, and I realize how challenging this is to

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<v Speaker 1>communicate through audio. But bear with me if you can.

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<v Speaker 1>King Edward the Third basically has four surviving sons that

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<v Speaker 1>matter to the story right now, Edward the Black Prince,

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<v Speaker 1>Lionel of Antwerp, John of Gaunt, and Edmund of Langley.

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<v Speaker 1>Edward the Black Prince dies and he has the sickly

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<v Speaker 1>son who's technically the king, but whose fairly disastrous reign

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<v Speaker 1>sets up this power vacuum that allows the War of

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<v Speaker 1>the Roses to happen. So now there are two main

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<v Speaker 1>family lines vying for the throne. The Lancaster claim comes

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<v Speaker 1>through son number three, John of Gaunt. The Yorkist claim

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<v Speaker 1>is a little more complicated. Their heirs of son number two,

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<v Speaker 1>Lionel of Antwerp, but through his female descendants head of

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<v Speaker 1>the York family was Richard the Third's dad, Richard of York.

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<v Speaker 1>On his mother's side, he's a descendant of Lionel Vantwerp,

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<v Speaker 1>son number two, but on his father's side he's the

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<v Speaker 1>grandson of Edmund of Langley, son number four, So it's

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<v Speaker 1>two claims from sons too and four, which you know

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<v Speaker 1>combined is arguably better than the Lancaster line from son three,

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<v Speaker 1>arguably hence the war. The House of Lancaster has a

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<v Speaker 1>successful early start. Henry the Fourth overthrows the weak, unpopular

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<v Speaker 1>Richard the Second in his son Henry five, is also king,

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<v Speaker 1>but makes the mistake of dying when his only son,

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<v Speaker 1>Henry the sixth, is just an infant. Once again, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a power vacuum, especially as Henry the sixth that

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<v Speaker 1>gets older and begins suffering from mental illness, so the

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<v Speaker 1>time is ripe for the Yorks to reclaim their throne.

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<v Speaker 1>Richard the Third grows up in this period watching his

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<v Speaker 1>father and older brother Edward leading a rebellion against the

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<v Speaker 1>Lancaster King Henry the sixth. When Richard's father dies in

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<v Speaker 1>battle in fourteen sixty, it's Richard the third older brother

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<v Speaker 1>who becomes Edward the Fourth, who inherits the Yorkist claim

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<v Speaker 1>to the throne and who ultimately wins. Richard's older brother

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<v Speaker 1>Edward is crowned King Edward the Fourth and bearing one

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<v Speaker 1>brief period ten years in where Henry the sixth and

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<v Speaker 1>his supporters fight back and briefly get him back on

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<v Speaker 1>the throne. Edward remains King Our Richard the third was

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<v Speaker 1>a child through all of that. He was eight when

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<v Speaker 1>his father was killed in battle, and he was sent

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<v Speaker 1>away for low countries the Netherlands for his own safety.

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<v Speaker 1>After that, only returning the next year when his older brother,

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<v Speaker 1>Edward the fourth was crowned king. As the loyal younger

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<v Speaker 1>brother of the new king, Richard was given a shiny

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<v Speaker 1>new title, Duke of Gloucester. He's maid a Knight of

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<v Speaker 1>the Garter and Knight of the Bath, and he remains loyal,

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<v Speaker 1>looking up to his brother and eagerly fighting for his causes.

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<v Speaker 1>When Richard is eleven, he's made Commissioner of Array. At seventeen,

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<v Speaker 1>Richard has given independent command in the military. Aside from

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<v Speaker 1>the brief hiccup when Henry the sixth returned to the

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<v Speaker 1>throne for less than six months, things are going swimmingly

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<v Speaker 1>for the York family. As Shakespeare put it immortally, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer

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<v Speaker 1>by this son of York. By four seventy three, Edward

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<v Speaker 1>the fourth was comfortably king and not just king, a

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<v Speaker 1>king with two sons, the all important air and spare

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<v Speaker 1>by his wife Elizabeth Woodville. The King's marriage was actually

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<v Speaker 1>pretty controversial, put it mild. It was actually Edward the

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<v Speaker 1>fourth choice of bride that pretty much caused that six

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<v Speaker 1>month pickup where he lost the crown. You see, Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 1>Woodville was from fairly middle rank. She had already been

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<v Speaker 1>married to a supporter of the House of Lancaster, the

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<v Speaker 1>enemy house, with whom she had two sons. Her last

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<v Speaker 1>husband had died in battle fighting for the Lancasters. People

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<v Speaker 1>saw the Woodvilles as a scheming, social climbing bunch, and

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<v Speaker 1>when Edward the Fourth chose to marry one of them,

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<v Speaker 1>his powerful cousin, the Earl of Warwick, defected to the

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<v Speaker 1>other side and helped Henry the sixth with that brief restoration.

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<v Speaker 1>All of that was probably a little awkward for young

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<v Speaker 1>Richard the Third, who had grown up under the tutelage

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<v Speaker 1>of Warwick. It was work who had trained him as

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<v Speaker 1>a knight and provided for his education. After Warwick's betrayal

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<v Speaker 1>and death in battle, Richard married his daughter, which Shakespeare

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<v Speaker 1>positioned as a pretty cruel and insidious form of revenge,

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<v Speaker 1>but which a more charitable interpretation to Richard the Third

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<v Speaker 1>would point out also gave him a pretty massive inheritance.

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<v Speaker 1>At the end of the day. For Richard, loyalty to

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<v Speaker 1>his brother the king was the most important thing. One

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<v Speaker 1>of his other brothers had actually chosen the opposite side

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<v Speaker 1>during the rebellion and was executed for treason when Edward

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<v Speaker 1>the Fourth came back to the throne, But Richard the

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<v Speaker 1>Third had always been loyal, and so he continued to

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<v Speaker 1>grow in power and prestige at his brother's side, loyal

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<v Speaker 1>protector of the York Family dynasty. It was fourteen eighty three.

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<v Speaker 1>After decades of war and thousands of lives lost in

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<v Speaker 1>bloody conflicts up and down the country, England was finally

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<v Speaker 1>at peace under King Edward the Four, but that piece

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<v Speaker 1>was about to be shattered. On April nine, King Edward

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<v Speaker 1>the Fourth died suddenly at age forty. We don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what he died of, whether the illness might have been

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 1>a sudden case of pneumonia or even malaria, or internal hemorrhaging,

0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 1>whatever it was. It was assumed at the time that

0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.280
<v Speaker 1>the king's excessive lifestyle of eating and drinking to the

0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:33.040
<v Speaker 1>extreme didn't help. But whatever the cause, he was dead

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.880
<v Speaker 1>and his twelve year old son was now King Edward

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:42.600
<v Speaker 1>the five. Young Edward was living at Ludlow Castle, the

0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 1>seat of power in Wales at the time. His guardian

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and tutor was his maternal uncle, a man named Lord Rivers.

0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 1>Lord Rivers had practically raised Edward from the time that

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.320
<v Speaker 1>he was a toddler. It was he Lord Rivers, the

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Queen's brother a Woodville, who taught Edward how to fight

0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.720
<v Speaker 1>with the sword, who secured his tutors, and who became

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.600
<v Speaker 1>the strongest paternal present in his life. And it was

0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 1>he Lord Rivers who received the letter a few days

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.040
<v Speaker 1>after the king's death, who then had to inform Young

0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Edward that his father had died and that he was

0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.840
<v Speaker 1>now the king. Word of the king's death had also

0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.160
<v Speaker 1>traveled to the north of England, where the dead King's brother,

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:32.600
<v Speaker 1>the future Richard the Third, had his estates. He immediately

0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.240
<v Speaker 1>returned to his home and changed into black, attending a

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.119
<v Speaker 1>memorial service for his brother and weeping for his loss.

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Richard also got noticed that the late king's final wishes

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 1>were to appoint him as protector of the realm, in

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 1>effect de facto king until the twelve year old boy

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:57.080
<v Speaker 1>came of age. Richard, now thirty years old, was the

0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.880
<v Speaker 1>logical choice. He was the most senior royal in the family,

0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and after all, he had spent a lifetime in military service.

0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>He was considered an English hero for his leadership in

0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.800
<v Speaker 1>putting down rebellions for his brother. He was loyal and

0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:16.080
<v Speaker 1>adept at making quick decisions, even when those decisions were hard,

0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.560
<v Speaker 1>and so he began to prepare to head down to

0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:25.240
<v Speaker 1>London to uphold his brother's final wishes. But then another

0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:30.040
<v Speaker 1>letter came. This one was from a man named Lord Hastings.

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:35.120
<v Speaker 1>Hastings was an old career nobleman, so to speak, one

0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 1>of the dead king's closest friends. He warned Richard that

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 1>he needed to get down to London as quickly as possible,

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.120
<v Speaker 1>that the Woodvilles, the Queen's family, were closing their claws

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:52.840
<v Speaker 1>around power. The Woodvilles, once a middling noble family, had

0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 1>had a meteoric rise when their daughter Elizabeth had married

0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Edward the Fourth, the type of rise that only happens

0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.840
<v Speaker 1>because you're married to the king. They all knew well

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>enough that if Richard had any real power, even temporarily,

0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:13.200
<v Speaker 1>their stars would be falling, and so the Woodvills, who

0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.879
<v Speaker 1>dominated the council in London, announced that the coronation for

0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:24.520
<v Speaker 1>young Edward the Five would be immediate. It was a

0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.639
<v Speaker 1>move designed to cut Richard out, and no doubt it's stung.

0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.159
<v Speaker 1>After all, he was the King's loyal brother and a

0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 1>celebrated soldier. He had royal blood, and it was the

0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 1>late king's final wishes that he be Lord Protector until

0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Edward the Five came of age. Who should be making

0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.439
<v Speaker 1>decisions now a twelve year old boy a family that

0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:52.159
<v Speaker 1>was basically middle class. By making the coronation immediate, the

0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Woodvills were in effect dismissing Richard's position, deciding that Edward

0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.280
<v Speaker 1>the Five was already fine to rule with the ice

0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.359
<v Speaker 1>and guidance of his mother and her family. Of course,

0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 1>whatever Richard was thinking at this moment, we can't be sure.

0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't really believe the Shakespearean portrayal that he was

0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.679
<v Speaker 1>already plotting his own assent to the throne. But I

0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.919
<v Speaker 1>can't imagine that he figured, probably correctly, that he was

0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.399
<v Speaker 1>the one who should rightfully be in power at the moment.

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Richard wrote to Lord Rivers, the guardian of the new King,

0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.920
<v Speaker 1>and said, let's all meet up on the way down

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 1>to London for the coronation in Northampton, so we can

0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.840
<v Speaker 1>enter London together as a sign of unity and strength.

0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Lord Rivers had no reason to doubt Richard, and so

0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:45.640
<v Speaker 1>he readily agreed with the new uncoornated King Edward the Five.

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Staying nearby at Stony Stratford, Richard went to meet Lord Rivers. Recall,

0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.359
<v Speaker 1>Lord Rivers is a Woodville, the brother of the Queen,

0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.480
<v Speaker 1>and so by this point Richard sees him as one

0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.720
<v Speaker 1>of the bowl, wrestling rightful power away from him. And

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:08.080
<v Speaker 1>it's here that Richard the Third makes a fateful decision,

0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.600
<v Speaker 1>one that will be the first domino that leads to

0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:18.600
<v Speaker 1>his own destruction. After the men spend the evening cordially

0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:23.600
<v Speaker 1>enough discussing travel arrangements and plans for the coronation, Richard

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:29.560
<v Speaker 1>the Third has his guards arrest Rivers for treason. The

0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.640
<v Speaker 1>next morning, Richard goes to see his nephew, the new King. Alone,

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Richard informs the new King that unfortunately his beloved uncle

0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:44.240
<v Speaker 1>Rivers was a trader. The charge against him was, if

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:48.840
<v Speaker 1>you'll forgive me in my opinion a little flimsy. Richard

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.840
<v Speaker 1>claims that Lord Rivers was responsible for speeding up the

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.399
<v Speaker 1>death of the late King Edward the Fourth by encouraging

0:21:56.480 --> 0:22:02.160
<v Speaker 1>his heavy drinking. Young King Edward the five is shocked, angry,

0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.399
<v Speaker 1>and maybe a little scared. Though Richard is the boy's uncle,

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.399
<v Speaker 1>they barely know each other. Edward grew up in London

0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.639
<v Speaker 1>and at Ludlow and Richard's the states were mostly in

0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:17.119
<v Speaker 1>the North of England. It was Lord Rivers who basically

0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.680
<v Speaker 1>raised him. There was one uncle that he trusted and

0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.320
<v Speaker 1>one uncle that he really didn't, but what choice did

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.240
<v Speaker 1>he have. At that point, Richard informed the boy that

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 1>it was time to go down to London for his coronation.

0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:35.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure Edward was thinking something along the lines of, well,

0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to become king and it's nothing I won't

0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 1>be able to straighten out with the rest of my

0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:44.600
<v Speaker 1>family when I get to London. But now the power

0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:48.600
<v Speaker 1>has shifted in Richard's favor. When he arrives in London

0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.640
<v Speaker 1>with the young King and word of the Woodville Lord

0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Rivers supposed treason, Richard is finally able to be officially

0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:01.159
<v Speaker 1>appointed Lord Protector, at least until Edward the Fifth coronation,

0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:06.360
<v Speaker 1>which is set for June twenty second, seven weeks away.

0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Those seven weeks become a ticking clock. Richard has raised

0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.479
<v Speaker 1>the stakes, and if he wants to hold onto power,

0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 1>he needs to work quickly. It's at this point that

0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Richard has the Young King Edward the Fifth placed in

0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.800
<v Speaker 1>the Tower of London. Now that sounds a little bit

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.200
<v Speaker 1>more sinister than it was. The Tower of London now

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.119
<v Speaker 1>is most famous for being a prison, but it was

0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:35.639
<v Speaker 1>also a royal residence, and it was tradition for a

0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:39.320
<v Speaker 1>king to stay there the night before his coronation. But

0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:42.840
<v Speaker 1>from this point on Edward is more or less under

0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:47.359
<v Speaker 1>house arrest by his uncle Richard. Edward will never leave

0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:51.680
<v Speaker 1>the grounds of the Tower of London again. Edward's mother,

0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:57.439
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth Woodville, the Dowager Queen, flees to Westminster Abbey Sanctuary

0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:00.640
<v Speaker 1>with her other children, her daughters, and her other son,

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>a nine year old boy named Richard. Meanwhile, the elder

0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:08.919
<v Speaker 1>Richard the third is trying to shore up his power.

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.080
<v Speaker 1>He knows full well that the second that the Young

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.200
<v Speaker 1>King Edward the Fifth is coronated, he's going to revert

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:21.040
<v Speaker 1>back to full Woodville control. Richard grows increasingly paranoid, feeling

0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:24.959
<v Speaker 1>trapped into a corner as the Royal Council, still dominated

0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:29.920
<v Speaker 1>by Woodvilles, keeps blocking his moves. Richard attempts to put

0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Lord Rivers, still imprisoned, on trial for treason, and he

0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 1>also tries to get the young Richard the second quote

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:41.200
<v Speaker 1>unquote Prince into the Tower of London for quote unquote

0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:45.320
<v Speaker 1>safe keeping. Richard the Third fears that even his once

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:49.639
<v Speaker 1>close ally, Lord Hastings, has betrayed him and has begun

0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:53.600
<v Speaker 1>working with the Woodvilles to undermine his power. With just

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:58.200
<v Speaker 1>nine days left until Edward the fifth Coronation, Richard calls

0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:01.520
<v Speaker 1>a small council meeting at the Power of London, and

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:07.800
<v Speaker 1>to everyone's surprise, he has Lord Hastings arrested. Lord Hastings

0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.879
<v Speaker 1>is brought outside and executed in the yard that afternoon

0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:16.879
<v Speaker 1>on a makeshift chopping block, killed illegally without a trial.

0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:25.800
<v Speaker 1>For staunch defenders of Richard. This killing of Lord Hastings is,

0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:28.680
<v Speaker 1>at least the way I see it, one of those

0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:32.359
<v Speaker 1>real sticking points that looks bad. It was a move

0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:36.680
<v Speaker 1>made almost certainly out of fear and paranoia and desperation,

0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:40.679
<v Speaker 1>but it was also an illegal execution without a trial

0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:44.160
<v Speaker 1>of one of the most respected noblemen in the country,

0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:49.320
<v Speaker 1>one of the late King's closest friends. Richard just gave

0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:52.640
<v Speaker 1>his enemies the fuel that they'll need later on when

0:25:52.680 --> 0:25:56.280
<v Speaker 1>they'll try to paint him as an outright villain. But

0:25:56.800 --> 0:26:01.280
<v Speaker 1>for now, Richard has made his power and is ruthlessness known,

0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:05.639
<v Speaker 1>and through the Archbishop, he more or less forces Elizabeth

0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Woodville to release her younger son into Richard's custody in

0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:13.399
<v Speaker 1>the Tower of London, still at this point under the

0:26:13.480 --> 0:26:19.199
<v Speaker 1>pretense of preparing for his older brother's coronation. Now Richard

0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:23.439
<v Speaker 1>has both princes in his custody in the Tower. I

0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:25.320
<v Speaker 1>think now is as good a time as any just

0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:29.080
<v Speaker 1>to clear something up. Technically, neither of them were actually

0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 1>princes when they were in the tower. One of them

0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:35.080
<v Speaker 1>was a king even though he was not coronated yet,

0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 1>he was still King Edward the five, and the other

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:41.280
<v Speaker 1>was a duke, young Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York.

0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:44.879
<v Speaker 1>But people call them the Princess the Princess in the Tower,

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:48.680
<v Speaker 1>so for clarity, that's sometimes how I'll refer to them.

0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:52.960
<v Speaker 1>But whatever their titles, now that they were in Richard's control.

0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:56.159
<v Speaker 1>The pieces were in place for him to make a

0:26:56.280 --> 0:27:02.320
<v Speaker 1>big move. Seemingly out of nowhere, a bishop comes forward

0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:06.720
<v Speaker 1>and announces that actually the late King Edward the Fourth's

0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:11.160
<v Speaker 1>marriage to Elizabeth Woodville was invalid because he had already

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:14.639
<v Speaker 1>been pre contracted to another woman, and by law at

0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:19.120
<v Speaker 1>that time, pre contracts with witnesses were as good as marriage.

0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:22.679
<v Speaker 1>The bishop who came forward claimed that he had been

0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:26.399
<v Speaker 1>the one who performed the earlier ceremony, back before he

0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:30.040
<v Speaker 1>was a bishop. He was promoted under Edward the Fourth,

0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:33.040
<v Speaker 1>which some people see as a sign that his claim

0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.280
<v Speaker 1>was true. Maybe Edward the Fourth promoted him to keep

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:41.040
<v Speaker 1>him quiet, and he only felt safe coming forward after

0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:45.879
<v Speaker 1>the king's death. But unfortunately we have no real tangible

0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:49.480
<v Speaker 1>proof on either side. The woman Edward the fourth had

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 1>allegedly been contracted to Eleanor Butler had already passed away.

0:27:55.240 --> 0:27:58.480
<v Speaker 1>The streets of London were buzzing with the gossip, and

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:02.240
<v Speaker 1>true or not, the timing could not have been more

0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:06.720
<v Speaker 1>convenient for Richard. If the king's marriage was invalid, his

0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:12.879
<v Speaker 1>children were illegitimate and ineligible to become king. Well, then

0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:17.600
<v Speaker 1>who should rule instead? I think then it has to

0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:23.120
<v Speaker 1>be the late king's brother, Richard. A petition arrives for him,

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:27.560
<v Speaker 1>nobles and commoners asking Richard to be king, and he

0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:33.520
<v Speaker 1>dramatically hesitates for a moment theatrically before humbly agreeing to

0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:40.520
<v Speaker 1>do his duty. On July six three, Richard, Duke of Gloucester,

0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:50.920
<v Speaker 1>is crowned King Richard the Third. Richard's nephews, the quote

0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:55.920
<v Speaker 1>unquote princes were seen playing on the lawns later that summer,

0:28:57.000 --> 0:29:00.800
<v Speaker 1>but then their servants were dismissed. They were moved to

0:29:00.920 --> 0:29:05.800
<v Speaker 1>apartments deeper within the castle's compound, and though some claimed

0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 1>to see them at the windows gazing out, by autumn

0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:16.880
<v Speaker 1>of free nobody ever sees young Edward or Young Richard again.

0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 1>King Richard the Third has a short reign, although not

0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:27.480
<v Speaker 1>as enemies retroactively portray it, not an unsuccessful or unpopular reign.

0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Contemporaries actually seemed to approve of him, but support grew

0:29:32.960 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>both in England and abroad for the exiled Henry Tudor,

0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:39.200
<v Speaker 1>who had a claim to the throne through his mother,

0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Margaret Beaufort, who was a Lancastrian, the great granddaughter of

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:47.760
<v Speaker 1>John Gaunt, that third surviving son of Edward the third.

0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Henry Tudor faced Richard in combat during the Battle of

0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:55.800
<v Speaker 1>bosworth Field, and though they say that Richard got within

0:29:55.880 --> 0:30:00.680
<v Speaker 1>a sword's length of Henry Tudor, eventually Richard was surrounded

0:30:00.680 --> 0:30:05.360
<v Speaker 1>and knocked to the ground. It's here that Shakespeare imagined

0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:09.840
<v Speaker 1>that Richard uttered the immortal line my Kingdom for a horse.

0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Richard was killed, according to legend, by a Welshman who

0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:19.440
<v Speaker 1>delivered such a violent blow with a polex that Richard's

0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:24.880
<v Speaker 1>helmet was driven through his skull. In actuality, Richard probably

0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:27.320
<v Speaker 1>just lost his helmet in battle, but we'll get to

0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:31.840
<v Speaker 1>that a little bit later. Richard was dead and Henry

0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:35.600
<v Speaker 1>was crowned King Henry the seventh. As a sign of

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:39.440
<v Speaker 1>unity and to strengthen his claim to the throne, Henry

0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:43.440
<v Speaker 1>married the young Elizabeth of York, the sister of those

0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:47.360
<v Speaker 1>princes in the Tower. Because Henry's claim was through the

0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Lancastrian side and Elizabeth was a York he was symbolically

0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:55.960
<v Speaker 1>uniting the feuding houses of the War of the Roses,

0:30:56.480 --> 0:31:00.400
<v Speaker 1>and he established a new house the Tutors, with the

0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:10.400
<v Speaker 1>symbol of a combined white and red rose. It was

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 1>during the tudorign that the stories really began to emerge

0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:17.840
<v Speaker 1>about the evil, scheming Richard the Third, who killed his

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:20.960
<v Speaker 1>own innocent little nephews to take the crown for himself.

0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:25.320
<v Speaker 1>The truth that Henry and his supporters wouldn't really like

0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:28.920
<v Speaker 1>to admit out loud is that it was pretty convenient

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:31.959
<v Speaker 1>for him too that those princes were gone. If they

0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:35.360
<v Speaker 1>were alive, he would basically have no claim to the throne.

0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Even centuries later, we can't help but be fascinated and

0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:43.840
<v Speaker 1>compelled by the image of the would be king and

0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:48.600
<v Speaker 1>his younger brother, these angelic blond boys gazing out of

0:31:48.640 --> 0:31:53.440
<v Speaker 1>a window like ghosts, innocent who are victims of ambition

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:57.320
<v Speaker 1>or who maybe went on to live a life that

0:31:57.400 --> 0:32:02.160
<v Speaker 1>we can only speculate about. Because the mystery of the

0:32:02.280 --> 0:32:06.400
<v Speaker 1>disappearance of the princes is still unanswered, and because there

0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:10.560
<v Speaker 1>were so many layers of gossip and propaganda on both sides,

0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:14.520
<v Speaker 1>and a seemingly infinite number of people who benefited from

0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:19.520
<v Speaker 1>the boy's deaths, it's ripe for conspiracy theories. Not even

0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:24.600
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy theories necessarily, just theories, and all of them sort

0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:27.920
<v Speaker 1>of plausible if you squint. So let's get to some

0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:34.240
<v Speaker 1>of those possible answers, the most commonly accepted answer is

0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:37.560
<v Speaker 1>that Richard was responsible for the death of his nephews,

0:32:38.080 --> 0:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>not personally, mind you, he wasn't a cartoon villain who

0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:45.640
<v Speaker 1>went and strangled two children himself while twirling his mustache,

0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:50.240
<v Speaker 1>but that the deaths were done on his orders. Thomas Moore,

0:32:50.360 --> 0:32:52.960
<v Speaker 1>who you have to remember, was writing under the Tutors,

0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:56.280
<v Speaker 1>wrote that the murder itself was done by James Terrell,

0:32:56.720 --> 0:32:59.520
<v Speaker 1>Richard's master of the horse, and that he was aided

0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:03.560
<v Speaker 1>by two men named Miles Forrest and John Dighton. According

0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 1>to Moore's account, the two boys were suffocated and buried

0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:11.000
<v Speaker 1>at the bottom of a flight of stairs, and then

0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 1>later moved. It's also possible that the murders were done

0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 1>by someone loyal to Richard, but not on his exact orders.

0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe a will no one rid me of this meddlesome

0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:28.479
<v Speaker 1>priest situation. Unfortunately, I know it's not exciting, but I

0:33:28.560 --> 0:33:31.920
<v Speaker 1>personally do think that this is a situation where the

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:36.560
<v Speaker 1>most boring answer is probably the right one. After Richard

0:33:36.640 --> 0:33:39.000
<v Speaker 1>was crowned, he went on a tour of the country

0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:41.640
<v Speaker 1>as a show of strength to show the people that

0:33:41.680 --> 0:33:45.040
<v Speaker 1>there was a solid king in charge. While he was away,

0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:48.920
<v Speaker 1>his guards thwarted an attempt to spring the princes from

0:33:48.960 --> 0:33:52.800
<v Speaker 1>the tower. The conspirators were going to set fires around

0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:55.560
<v Speaker 1>the tower and escape with the boys in the chaos.

0:33:56.200 --> 0:33:59.840
<v Speaker 1>The plan, as I said, was thwarted, but probably made

0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:02.600
<v Speaker 1>it very clear to Richard that as long as the

0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:05.880
<v Speaker 1>two boys were alive, and even though they had been

0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:10.640
<v Speaker 1>officially declared illegitimate, they were still a threat. There were

0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:13.120
<v Speaker 1>always going to be people who thought that they were

0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:15.880
<v Speaker 1>the rightful kings, and there were always going to be

0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:20.320
<v Speaker 1>enemies of Richard's who would want to use them as ponds. Plus,

0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:23.839
<v Speaker 1>of course, even twelve year old boys eventually grow up

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:27.640
<v Speaker 1>to be men, men who can gather supporters and fight

0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:32.840
<v Speaker 1>for a rightful claim to the throne. Even if Richard

0:34:32.880 --> 0:34:36.239
<v Speaker 1>did order the death of his nephews, I think it's

0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:40.640
<v Speaker 1>worth realizing that he probably didn't see himself as a monster.

0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Richard had grown up during the War of the Roses,

0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:48.120
<v Speaker 1>and he saw firsthand how bloody and deadly it was

0:34:48.520 --> 0:34:51.120
<v Speaker 1>when the claim to the crown was contested, or when

0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:55.360
<v Speaker 1>a weak child king was in charge. Tens of thousands

0:34:55.360 --> 0:34:58.800
<v Speaker 1>of people died in battle and civil war made England

0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:03.720
<v Speaker 1>and the monarchy vulnerable. If Richard did order the murders

0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:06.920
<v Speaker 1>of his nephews, he probably would have seen it as

0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:10.480
<v Speaker 1>a necessary evil to protect the peace and stability in

0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:14.760
<v Speaker 1>the country and to protect his own son's claimed the throne.

0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:19.360
<v Speaker 1>These were incredibly bloody times, and the stakes were life

0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:25.160
<v Speaker 1>and death. Could the princes have died of natural causes, maybe,

0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:29.120
<v Speaker 1>but they were two pretty young, healthy boys who mysteriously

0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:33.200
<v Speaker 1>went missing at exactly the same time. Also, if they

0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:36.800
<v Speaker 1>had died of natural causes, Richard probably would have wanted

0:35:36.840 --> 0:35:40.320
<v Speaker 1>that known so people wouldn't rally behind them, and so

0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:44.440
<v Speaker 1>people would stop accusing him of the nephew murder. A

0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 1>lot of Richard's defenders make the case that it was

0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:50.360
<v Speaker 1>actually the tutors who killed the two princes in the tower.

0:35:51.120 --> 0:35:55.040
<v Speaker 1>When Henry the seventh overthrew Richard three, Henry would have

0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:59.240
<v Speaker 1>rightfully recognized that Edward the fifth and his brother being alive,

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:04.240
<v Speaker 1>were a major major threat to his rule, and because

0:36:04.239 --> 0:36:07.799
<v Speaker 1>he had just overthrown Richard the third, he needed a

0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:12.080
<v Speaker 1>way to make Richard look as evil as possible. It

0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:15.680
<v Speaker 1>makes sense that if the princess had still been alive

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:19.440
<v Speaker 1>in four five, when Henry the seventh took the throne,

0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:24.200
<v Speaker 1>killing them and framing Richard would be the ultimate two

0:36:24.239 --> 0:36:29.200
<v Speaker 1>birds one stone. It's a really interesting theory and definitely

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:32.799
<v Speaker 1>one that I understand why people believe, but there's not

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:37.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of factual evidence, and I think that there

0:36:37.160 --> 0:36:41.160
<v Speaker 1>would have been some record, some sightings, anything, if the

0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:46.200
<v Speaker 1>princess had still been alive by five, which I just

0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:48.839
<v Speaker 1>don't think on the merit of evidence that they were.

0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to historical fiction, particularly the incredibly popular work of

0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:58.840
<v Speaker 1>Philippa Gregory, there's also a very popular theory that the

0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:02.960
<v Speaker 1>deaths were actually the work of Henry the Seventh's powerful mother,

0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Margaret Beaufort, who manipulated the situation while Richard was still king. Again.

0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:13.760
<v Speaker 1>It's a fantastic story that this woman saw the opportunity

0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:17.399
<v Speaker 1>to frame Richard and rally the cause around her own son,

0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:20.719
<v Speaker 1>while at the same time eliminating the people who would

0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:23.440
<v Speaker 1>be in line for the throne ahead of him. But

0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:27.720
<v Speaker 1>we don't really have any actual evidence of this beyond

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:33.280
<v Speaker 1>a good story. It's fun, but you know, the princes

0:37:33.360 --> 0:37:37.880
<v Speaker 1>under Richard were heavily heavily guarded, and though Margaret Beaufort

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:43.160
<v Speaker 1>could have in theory bribed the very loyal guards. It's

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:46.360
<v Speaker 1>almost impossible to believe that she could have offered anything

0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:49.879
<v Speaker 1>that the sitting king couldn't have offered. No one could

0:37:49.880 --> 0:37:52.520
<v Speaker 1>have predicted that Henry the seven would have been the

0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:56.960
<v Speaker 1>one to best Richard the three and become king himself. Personally,

0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.479
<v Speaker 1>I think this is a question of hindsight being able

0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:03.000
<v Speaker 1>to show us things that Margaret couldn't possibly have known

0:38:03.120 --> 0:38:05.960
<v Speaker 1>at the time. You would have to believe that this

0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:10.000
<v Speaker 1>woman was playing four dimensional chess with things playing out

0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:13.520
<v Speaker 1>in an incredibly unpredictable way. And you also have to

0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:18.280
<v Speaker 1>believe that she was incredibly ruthless, even though contemporary sources

0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:23.760
<v Speaker 1>actually paint her as a pretty pious lady. But again,

0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:26.640
<v Speaker 1>I will never knock someone for wanting to believe a

0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:30.960
<v Speaker 1>good story. Okay, that's not true. There is one story

0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 1>that I do just have to debunk a little bit

0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:36.680
<v Speaker 1>out of hand. In recent months, a story has gone

0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:40.560
<v Speaker 1>around the Internet saying that actually the Princess survived and

0:38:40.640 --> 0:38:44.400
<v Speaker 1>that a series of quote Da Vinci code like clues

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:48.080
<v Speaker 1>reveal that Edward the Fifth escaped the tower to live

0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:52.480
<v Speaker 1>a private, secret life as a park ranger named John Evans.

0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:56.920
<v Speaker 1>In rural devon. Those da Vinci code like clues include

0:38:56.920 --> 0:39:00.120
<v Speaker 1>an effigy of John Evans having a small scar on

0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:03.400
<v Speaker 1>his chin that young Edward also might have had, and

0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:06.080
<v Speaker 1>that Evans on one of the shields in the church

0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:11.280
<v Speaker 1>is written as e V A S, which could stand

0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 1>for e V get it like Edward the Five, and

0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:19.839
<v Speaker 1>then a S, which they think might refer to the

0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:24.800
<v Speaker 1>Latin word spelled a s A, which means sanctuary assa.

0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:29.200
<v Speaker 1>The church also has a lot of Yorkist symbols throughout,

0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:33.399
<v Speaker 1>including a stained glass window depicting the young King Edward

0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:36.360
<v Speaker 1>the Five with a bunch of deer nearby, which some

0:39:36.480 --> 0:39:39.239
<v Speaker 1>see as a clue because John Evans was a park

0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:44.320
<v Speaker 1>ranger on a deer estate. It's cool and fun in theory,

0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:49.200
<v Speaker 1>but again there is no actual proof. The Yorkist symbols

0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:51.840
<v Speaker 1>in the church are actually from early in the reign

0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:54.160
<v Speaker 1>of Henry the Eighth, when there was a moment of

0:39:54.239 --> 0:39:58.279
<v Speaker 1>Yorkist reconciliation for the sake of unity. I guess for

0:39:58.360 --> 0:40:01.520
<v Speaker 1>me it's a question of which is more likely, one

0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:04.800
<v Speaker 1>that the princes managed to escape with no one writing

0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:07.960
<v Speaker 1>or talking about it, or that Richard or Henry had

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:11.000
<v Speaker 1>had them safely moved away somewhere where they would have

0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:13.920
<v Speaker 1>been free to raise their own army or rally supporters

0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:16.640
<v Speaker 1>behind them, and that they left behind a series of

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:21.480
<v Speaker 1>elaborate riddles about it, or two that a guy named

0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:24.680
<v Speaker 1>John Evans got a job as a parker and also

0:40:24.800 --> 0:40:28.440
<v Speaker 1>a church had some Yorkist symbols during a period of reconciliation.

0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:33.520
<v Speaker 1>But fundamentally the mystery and all of the theories all

0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:36.400
<v Speaker 1>get to the heart of why the missing princes have

0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:41.560
<v Speaker 1>spawned such passionate debate. Because there are so many unknowns,

0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:45.239
<v Speaker 1>people love coming up with stories, and because it's such

0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:49.960
<v Speaker 1>a dramatic and bloody saga with so many suspects. With

0:40:50.040 --> 0:40:54.360
<v Speaker 1>these compelling innocent victims, people are going to keep coming

0:40:54.440 --> 0:40:57.799
<v Speaker 1>up with stories and will probably never be able to

0:40:57.880 --> 0:41:06.120
<v Speaker 1>prove anyone right or wrong with any absolute certainty. In

0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:10.000
<v Speaker 1>sixteen seventy four, when King Charles the Second was having

0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:13.719
<v Speaker 1>some renovations done to the Tower of London, two workmen

0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:17.960
<v Speaker 1>digging under a staircase found a wooden box which contained

0:41:18.080 --> 0:41:23.520
<v Speaker 1>two small human skeletons. Because of the history written by More,

0:41:23.960 --> 0:41:27.360
<v Speaker 1>it became widely assumed that the bodies were those of

0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:31.400
<v Speaker 1>the princes buried under the staircase, even though Moore's account

0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:34.200
<v Speaker 1>did say that the bodies were later moved after they

0:41:34.239 --> 0:41:38.680
<v Speaker 1>were buried there, still Charles the Second had the remains

0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:43.560
<v Speaker 1>interred in a white marble sarcophagus in Westminster Abbey, giving

0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:47.120
<v Speaker 1>them the proper royal burial to which they were entitled.

0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Transcribed from the Latin, the inscription on their grave reads,

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:55.799
<v Speaker 1>here lie the relics of Edward, the fifth, King of

0:41:55.800 --> 0:42:00.000
<v Speaker 1>England and Richard, Duke of York. These brothers, being confined

0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:03.600
<v Speaker 1>mind in the Tower of London, and they're stifled with pillows,

0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:07.520
<v Speaker 1>were privately and meanly buried by the order of their

0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:12.600
<v Speaker 1>perfidious uncle, Richard the Usurper, whose bones long inquired after

0:42:12.680 --> 0:42:16.120
<v Speaker 1>and wished for after one hundred and ninety one years,

0:42:16.120 --> 0:42:19.319
<v Speaker 1>in the rubbish of the stairs those lately leading to

0:42:19.360 --> 0:42:22.920
<v Speaker 1>the chapel of the White Tower, were on the seventeenth

0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:28.640
<v Speaker 1>day of July six seventy four, by undoubted proofs discovered

0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:33.080
<v Speaker 1>being buried deep in that place. Charles the Second, a

0:42:33.200 --> 0:42:38.759
<v Speaker 1>most compassionate prince, pitying their severe fate, ordered these unhappy

0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:43.000
<v Speaker 1>princes to be laid amongst the monuments of their predecessors

0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:46.359
<v Speaker 1>sixteen seventy eight, in the thirtieth year of his reign.

0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:53.160
<v Speaker 1>A little dramatic, but it communicates the message. In nineteen

0:42:53.360 --> 0:42:57.759
<v Speaker 1>thirty three, those remains were exhumed and re examined, and

0:42:57.840 --> 0:43:01.439
<v Speaker 1>studies confirmed that the bone ones within the tomb were

0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:05.800
<v Speaker 1>in fact the remains of two children of appropriate ages.

0:43:06.719 --> 0:43:12.360
<v Speaker 1>But that was three. The scientific methods used were shaky

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:16.200
<v Speaker 1>at best, and there was of course no DNA testing.

0:43:17.120 --> 0:43:20.560
<v Speaker 1>The Church and Queen Elizabeth the Second have both made

0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:24.120
<v Speaker 1>their wishes clear that the bodies not be re exhumed

0:43:24.239 --> 0:43:27.799
<v Speaker 1>for DNA testing, imagining that it might be difficult to

0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:31.239
<v Speaker 1>come up with anything conclusive, that it would be destructive

0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:34.399
<v Speaker 1>to the bodies in Westminster Abbey, and that it would

0:43:34.400 --> 0:43:39.080
<v Speaker 1>set a bad precedence. Personally, I'm hoping that when Charles

0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:43.760
<v Speaker 1>becomes king he insists upon it, just out of sheer curiosity.

0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:47.040
<v Speaker 1>The truth is, the question of the murder of the

0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:50.800
<v Speaker 1>princes in the Tower has become such a contentious debate,

0:43:51.200 --> 0:43:54.440
<v Speaker 1>with so many people so deeply entrenched in their beliefs,

0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:57.880
<v Speaker 1>that I think even if the testing came back saying

0:43:57.920 --> 0:44:00.719
<v Speaker 1>those bodies were the princes, even if we had a

0:44:00.840 --> 0:44:05.000
<v Speaker 1>handwritten confession from someone found. I doubt the case would

0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 1>actually be settled. There are stories to be told and

0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:20.600
<v Speaker 1>mysteries still to be explored. That's the story of Richard

0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:23.600
<v Speaker 1>the Third's rise to power. But keep listening after a

0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:26.520
<v Speaker 1>brief sponsor break to hear a little bit more about

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Richard's more recent history. On September twelve, and incredible discovery

0:44:45.360 --> 0:44:49.200
<v Speaker 1>was made. The University of Lester, working with the amateur

0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:53.239
<v Speaker 1>historian Philippa Langley, announced that a skeleton that they had

0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:56.920
<v Speaker 1>found in a dig underneath a parking lot was quite

0:44:56.960 --> 0:45:03.000
<v Speaker 1>possibly the remains of Richard the Third. Subsequent DNA tests

0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:07.880
<v Speaker 1>confirmed it after hundreds of years, they had found Richard

0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:13.080
<v Speaker 1>the Third in a parking lot. Richard had been defeated

0:45:13.160 --> 0:45:16.359
<v Speaker 1>in battle and so his corpse was paraded around by

0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:20.320
<v Speaker 1>his enemies until he was finally buried quickly and without

0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:24.399
<v Speaker 1>a shroud or marker, near the choir of Greyfriars Church

0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:28.839
<v Speaker 1>in Leicester in four in a place of honor near

0:45:28.880 --> 0:45:33.000
<v Speaker 1>the front of the church, but with no pomp or ceremony.

0:45:33.280 --> 0:45:36.600
<v Speaker 1>During the dissolution of the monasteries under King Henry the Eighth,

0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Greyfriars Church was demolished and the sight of it became

0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:47.040
<v Speaker 1>lost over time until it wasn't. Through analysis of the skeleton,

0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:51.240
<v Speaker 1>they found that Richard the Third did have scoliosis, although

0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:54.239
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't the hunchback that Shakespeare made him out to be,

0:45:55.040 --> 0:45:57.600
<v Speaker 1>and they found out that he was most likely killed

0:45:58.000 --> 0:46:01.440
<v Speaker 1>by a violent halberd wounded to the exposed base of

0:46:01.520 --> 0:46:05.240
<v Speaker 1>his neck in battle that probably left his brain visible.

0:46:06.800 --> 0:46:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Richard the Third was reburied in Leicester Cathedral. Benedict Cumberbatch,

0:46:12.040 --> 0:46:14.759
<v Speaker 1>the actor who had played Richard in the television show

0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:19.560
<v Speaker 1>The Hollow Crown, was there to read a poem, It's

0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:22.480
<v Speaker 1>wild to imagine that a man can be a king

0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:26.799
<v Speaker 1>and still somehow get lost and end up beneath a

0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:31.120
<v Speaker 1>parking lot. They found him under an actual parking spot.

0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Richard the Third was under a spot that was reserved

0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:39.239
<v Speaker 1>and it had been painted just a few years earlier

0:46:39.600 --> 0:46:53.759
<v Speaker 1>with the letter are Noble Blood is a production of

0:46:53.800 --> 0:46:56.879
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky.

0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:00.600
<v Speaker 1>The show was written and hosted by Dana Schwartz. Executive

0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:05.719
<v Speaker 1>producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The

0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:08.839
<v Speaker 1>show is produced by rema Ill Kali, and Trevor Young.

0:47:09.560 --> 0:47:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Noble Blood is on social media at Noble Blood Tales,

0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:14.640
<v Speaker 1>and you can learn more about the show over at

0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:17.640
<v Speaker 1>Noble blood Tales dot com. For more podcasts from I

0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:21.319
<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:47:21.560 --> 0:47:25.040
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. M