1
00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not? Twenty twenty four is here,

2
00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

3
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,640
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,760
Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,160
Speaker 1: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent

6
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

7
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: it means the absolute world to have your support. What

8
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Become a premium subscriber today at

9
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:41,239
Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. We have

10
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,800
Speaker 1: an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed,

11
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 1: we do lots of interesting stories this morning. We have

12
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 1: a blowback on Capitol Hill from Republicans about that release

13
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,400
Speaker 1: of January six tapes. On Tucker Carlston Show. We also

14
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,520
Speaker 1: have some new text messages Tucker explaining exactly how he

15
00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 1: feels about Donald Trump in reality, very different from the

16
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,880
Speaker 1: picture he puts forward on his show. So we'll break

17
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 1: that down for you. New budget battles. As the debt

18
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 1: ceiling deadline comes closer and closer, Biden putting out his

19
00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 1: budget plans, House Republicans starting to come coalesce around their

20
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 1: package of cuts that they are trying to demand, so

21
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,320
Speaker 1: we've got all of that for you. We also have

22
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: new shots fired between Elon Musk at Twitter and the FTC.

23
00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,120
Speaker 1: They are demanding all sorts of information, including the journalists

24
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,480
Speaker 1: and information about the journalists he interacted with and what

25
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: exactly they had access to. Noam Chomsky out with a

26
00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,880
Speaker 1: new ed warning about AI and chat GPT. And we

27
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 1: also have a look at the House hearings on COVID

28
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 1: and what was said there. But soccer first, we have

29
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,120
Speaker 1: a big announcement, big announcement here that we have been

30
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 1: working on for literally years now at this point, so

31
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 1: we will now have the full show video with time

32
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: stamps on our Spotify Premium podcast. So what that means

33
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 1: is our premium subscribers who have connected the full show

34
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,080
Speaker 1: their ability to watch it to their Spotify account. You

35
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 1: no longer can just listen to it. You can also

36
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,600
Speaker 1: watch it inside of the Spotify app, as you can

37
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,120
Speaker 1: with many podcasts. So we've been working on that for

38
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,360
Speaker 1: a long time. Technologically it was actually it's far more

39
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: difficult that it might sound to actually pull off. Thank

40
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,680
Speaker 1: you to our friends over at Supercast at Spotify and

41
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,079
Speaker 1: to our team here who has been ground testing it.

42
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,360
Speaker 1: It looks fantastic, It works fantastic, so enjoy and you

43
00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,840
Speaker 1: can also listen at three point five speed. Yes, indeed,

44
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,320
Speaker 1: you get listen at whatever speed you desire. And it

45
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,640
Speaker 1: looks I have to say it was. It looks really great.

46
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,960
Speaker 1: It looks really nice, and Griffin was just showing us

47
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,639
Speaker 1: this morning. It actually has like the time codes, so

48
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 1: you can easily sort of jump around and if there

49
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 1: are certain segments you want to listen to and other

50
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,480
Speaker 1: things you want to skip past, it makes it easy

51
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,760
Speaker 1: to do that. So really excited about that. If you

52
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,679
Speaker 1: aren't premium subscriber, go ahead and become one so that

53
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 1: you can have access to that as well, because it

54
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 1: is very cool feature. It's an awesome thing. All right.

55
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 1: Let's start with Fox News. So we have been covering

56
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,160
Speaker 1: quite a bit here, I know Emily did as well,

57
00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 1: the release of the Tucker Carlson footage from January sixth.

58
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,639
Speaker 1: It's actually kicked up quite a storm here Washington. A

59
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,680
Speaker 1: lot of GOP senators actually getting very upset with Fox

60
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 1: and Tucker, specifically editorial coverage of that, all converging around

61
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 1: the singular idea that the Capitol Police did nothing wrong

62
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 1: on January sixth, Mitch McConnell, underscoring met let's take a

63
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,920
Speaker 1: listen to Abe by speak of a party to give

64
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,080
Speaker 1: access to touch approves of this situat My concern is

65
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,360
Speaker 1: how it was depicted, which is a different issue. Clearly,

66
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 1: the chief of the Capitol Police, in my view, correctly

67
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:37,240
Speaker 1: describes what most of us witness firsthand on January sixth.

68
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 1: So that's my reaction to it. It was a mistake,

69
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 1: in my view for Fox News to depict this in

70
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 1: a way that's completely at variance with what our chief

71
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,120
Speaker 1: law enforcement official here at the Capital thingcts. This is

72
00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,040
Speaker 1: the interesting thing. So everybody's converging around the Capitol Police

73
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 1: as if they didn't do anything particularly wrong that day.

74
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 1: So let's go and put this up there on the screen.

75
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,720
Speaker 1: The Capitol Police chief letter. I'll read some of it

76
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,320
Speaker 1: to you in full. He says, quote A false allegation

77
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: is that our officers helped the riders and acted as quote,

78
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 1: tour guides. This is outrageous and false. The department stands

79
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 1: by the officers in the video that was shown last night.

80
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 1: I don't have to remind you how outnumbered our officers

81
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,880
Speaker 1: were on January sixth, Those officers did their best to

82
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 1: use de escalation tactics to try to talk to rioters

83
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,160
Speaker 1: into getting each other to leave the building. The program

84
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 1: conveniently cherry picked from the cammer moments of the forty

85
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 1: one thousand hours of the video and commentary fails to

86
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,880
Speaker 1: provide context about the chaos and violence. So let's all

87
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 1: just have a little bit of a reminder of what

88
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,719
Speaker 1: exactly that footage showed. It showed Capitol police officers, not

89
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 1: if I mean effectively escorting and just following around the

90
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,280
Speaker 1: QAnon Chaman and look, Christal, I think we can sympathize

91
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 1: with people who may want to quote, de escalate a conflict.

92
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 1: That's certainly what I would advise as opposed to sorry,

93
00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,640
Speaker 1: violence when you are outnumbered. But there there's a fine

94
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,159
Speaker 1: line between de escalation and straight up opening doors for someone,

95
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 1: including to the floor of the United States Senate, like yes,

96
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,719
Speaker 1: that is where I just really have no idea how

97
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,800
Speaker 1: they can defend the conduct of these officers. For you

98
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,920
Speaker 1: could say, hey, you know one thing, listen, man, you

99
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,240
Speaker 1: know it would be better for you if you just

100
00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,599
Speaker 1: left right now. That's one thing, But there's a whole

101
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 1: other thing to literally basically follow somebody around seven people

102
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,040
Speaker 1: at one point one person, crazy person with like a

103
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 1: weird sharpened spear. Why would you want to let that

104
00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: person onto the floor of the Senate. And then while

105
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,880
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, just so you know, like this is

106
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 1: a really holy place, and you know, it was like, what,

107
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 1: that's not Dschal, That's just odd. It's odd behavior, very

108
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 1: odd behavior. If I may be permitted to have a

109
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,039
Speaker 1: nuanced view on this, there's two pieces. First of all,

110
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of what Tucker showed was like

111
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,680
Speaker 1: trying to cherry pick the calmest moments from January sixth

112
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,480
Speaker 1: and present a portrait that is at odds with reality.

113
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,880
Speaker 1: And so I sympathize with Republican senator and others who

114
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: were like, this is bullshit. We also with our own

115
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 1: eyes that parts of this day were extremely violent. A

116
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,120
Speaker 1: lot of people were injured, there were a lot of scuffles,

117
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 1: there was a lot of fighting, all of that stuff. So,

118
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 1: you know, don't give us just your sanitized, propaganda filled

119
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 1: version that accords with the narrative that you have been

120
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 1: trying to spin on your program, which, by the way,

121
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,480
Speaker 1: we'll get to in a moment. You know, he clearly

122
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 1: put is happy to put lies out on his program

123
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,480
Speaker 1: that are wildly at odds with what he believes with

124
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,800
Speaker 1: So that's one piece. The piece though, that you're honing

125
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 1: in on, though I think the explanation of the Capitol

126
00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 1: believes here, it just makes absolutely no sense. I mean

127
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,840
Speaker 1: and de escalatory tex You're leading him around, You're trying

128
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,520
Speaker 1: locked doors, like helping him to find the chamber he

129
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,120
Speaker 1: was How is that a de escalatory tactic? How is

130
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,480
Speaker 1: that like talk trying to talk him out of do it?

131
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,599
Speaker 1: There is none of that evident on the tape. And

132
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,800
Speaker 1: right in the wake of January sixth, there was a

133
00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,400
Speaker 1: lot of I think very reasonable questions about how the

134
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 1: hell this was allowed to happen, about failures of law

135
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,200
Speaker 1: enforcement on that day, including by the way, there were

136
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,920
Speaker 1: media questions, there were political questions, I believe, from both

137
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 1: sides of the aisle, and there was an entire investigation

138
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 1: done by the Capitol Police where they put some of

139
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 1: their own people on leave because they did not conduct

140
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,680
Speaker 1: themselves in the way that they would want them to

141
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: on that day. So even the Capitol Police previously did

142
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,280
Speaker 1: not agree with this assessment that it was all well

143
00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: and good on that day. And we'll get to some

144
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,520
Speaker 1: of that in a moment. Let's just put this next

145
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 1: piece up on the screen, because this is the part

146
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 1: I'm sympathetic to. Here's they say GOP senators were buke

147
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlsons narrative that January six was largely peaceful. Tillis said,

148
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 1: it's bullshit, Kramer said, just a lia Graham said, I'm

149
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 1: not interested in whitewashing January six, and Romney said trying

150
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 1: to normalize that behavior is dangerous and disgusting. And those pieces,

151
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,880
Speaker 1: I actually am totally sympathetic too, because I do think

152
00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,760
Speaker 1: he overall presented this very like selective, whitewashed version of

153
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,320
Speaker 1: what actually occurred on that day, and I think that's fine.

154
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 1: But what I was saying was that and this is

155
00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 1: what I put out yesterday. The tell me in the

156
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,400
Speaker 1: freak out is that everyone is attacking the editorial position

157
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 1: instead of trying to explain the actions of the Capitol

158
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,320
Speaker 1: Police in escorting the QAnon shaman around the Capital, right.

159
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,679
Speaker 1: And it's like you can listen every by definition, all

160
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 1: editorial coverage of January sixth by any news network is

161
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 1: going to be editorial. It is going to be cherry picked.

162
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 1: The Washington Post literally won a Pulitzer Prize by quote

163
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,680
Speaker 1: cherry picking the video to be like reconstructing the attacks.

164
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,480
Speaker 1: So did the New York Times. They've have these highly

165
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,160
Speaker 1: produced documentaries, and I think that's fine. So at this point,

166
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,760
Speaker 1: now it's been over what it's been several years, you

167
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 1: can at this point you can watch any footage to

168
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 1: reinforce any narrative that you want to on this one.

169
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,319
Speaker 1: Let's take the editorial aside. Let's take the footage that

170
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,680
Speaker 1: we had not seen before and just say, hey, that's

171
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 1: pretty weird. What was going on with that? And for

172
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:53,559
Speaker 1: some reason there is just been coalescing around the actions

173
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,080
Speaker 1: of the Capitol Police, when in reality, as you said,

174
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 1: in the early days, there was broad recognition that this

175
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,960
Speaker 1: was a failure of tremendous proportions. I saw Joe Biden

176
00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 1: staffer or whatever put out a tweet yesterday being like,

177
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,600
Speaker 1: in my opinion, January sixth was just as bad as

178
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 1: nine to eleven. Let's think about nine to eleven. Imagine

179
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 1: if we did not have the takeaway that the FBI

180
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 1: and the CIA had colossally failed at their jobs by

181
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,480
Speaker 1: allowing nine to eleven to happen. You can both venerate

182
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,560
Speaker 1: first responders, yes, and the violence and the victims, and

183
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 1: also say, hey, structurally, this was a massive screw up. Now,

184
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,760
Speaker 1: unfortunately we didn't go full bore in terms of the

185
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,560
Speaker 1: intelligence community, but in this case, in the very early days,

186
00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 1: put us up there on the screen. As you alluded to,

187
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,480
Speaker 1: the Capitol Police suspended six of its officers and investigated

188
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 1: dozens more after the Capital riots, and as this New

189
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:55,040
Speaker 1: York Times report is highlighting, there were several efforts after

190
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: in the days to talk about how the force was

191
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 1: in crisis, about how at one point the gear that

192
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,320
Speaker 1: they needed crystal was literally on a bus that was

193
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,040
Speaker 1: somewhere that was locked. They didn't have a rapid response plan.

194
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 1: It was one of the greatest intelligence failures of all time.

195
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,920
Speaker 1: And I think that's why so many people are willing

196
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,079
Speaker 1: to believe a lot of theories that this was like

197
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 1: a full blown false flag, because you're like, hey, you

198
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 1: guys literally had FBI informants planted in the Proud Boys

199
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,800
Speaker 1: and the othkeepers, probably in the crowd. At the very least,

200
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 1: we know there was some uniform on uniform. Uh, there

201
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,199
Speaker 1: were some undercover police officers that have been come out

202
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 1: and test and given affidavits in court. How could you

203
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,120
Speaker 1: possibly not know and have given the Capitol Police heads up?

204
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,720
Speaker 1: Secondary like why was there an order given to the

205
00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 1: Capitol Police to not necessarily like use the full scope

206
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,559
Speaker 1: of law enforcement response? And the National Guard? Why was

207
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 1: a National Guard not on call? Why were they called

208
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 1: in you know, hours later? It was a complete and

209
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 1: total mess. Initially there were actually some questions about this,

210
00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,240
Speaker 1: but then eventually it all came down to, well, they

211
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,920
Speaker 1: were heroes, can't question anything, and oh, by the way,

212
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,040
Speaker 1: let's give them a ton more money in funding. I mean,

213
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 1: the most likely explanation for the failures is in confidence.

214
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,200
Speaker 1: That's usually the common explanation for things that we have

215
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,800
Speaker 1: trouble understanding or explaining. I think they just failed in

216
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,679
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. They failed to prepare. And I'm

217
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,559
Speaker 1: not just talking about the US Capitol Police here or

218
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,520
Speaker 1: responsible for you know, the response on that day, but

219
00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm talking about you know, law enforcement FBI leading up

220
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,160
Speaker 1: to the events of this day, when there was all

221
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,360
Speaker 1: kinds of intel out there and chatter public chatter about

222
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,199
Speaker 1: what they were planning to do on January sixth. I

223
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 1: think a very logical explanation is, listen, it's no secret

224
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 1: that law enforcement tends to be more right leaning, and

225
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,839
Speaker 1: they were more sympathetic to the cause, and so they

226
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,320
Speaker 1: in their own minds downplayed the potential risks of what

227
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 1: could happen on January sixth. And you know, there were

228
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:50,840
Speaker 1: a couple signs of that. First of all, as we

229
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 1: said before, there were and we'll play this in just

230
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 1: a second. You know, right afterwards, videos emerged of some

231
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 1: of the Capitol Police officers little literally opening appearing to

232
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,199
Speaker 1: open the barricade for protesters to go through, which fits

233
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,920
Speaker 1: then with this video of them like shepherding the QAnon

234
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 1: shaman around and showing him exactly where he wants to go.

235
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 1: One potential explanation is they were ideologically sympathetic and that

236
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,400
Speaker 1: was a barrier to them effectively doing their job in

237
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 1: the way that we would want them to. And there

238
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,840
Speaker 1: was actually even one Capitol police officer put this up

239
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,000
Speaker 1: on the screen who was found guilty of obstruction with

240
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,560
Speaker 1: regards to January sixth case. Basically, what this guy was

241
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,120
Speaker 1: doing is the day after the attack, I'm reading from

242
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 1: this article here. A Facebook friend of this former Capitol

243
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,439
Speaker 1: police officer with whom he'd never exchanged messages before, posted

244
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,240
Speaker 1: some images on Facebook of himself inside the Capitol during

245
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,840
Speaker 1: the attack, so he took it on himself. This dude

246
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,080
Speaker 1: then to message this guy who'd never talked to you

247
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,720
Speaker 1: before but he was friends with on Facebook, and rather

248
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 1: than forwarding that information to the authorities, which you might

249
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,319
Speaker 1: expect someone in law enforcement to do, he instead instead

250
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,520
Speaker 1: sent the rioter a private message with advice about how

251
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,840
Speaker 1: to avoid being caught. He said, quote, I'm a Capitol

252
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 1: Police officer who agrees with your political stance. Take down

253
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 1: the part about being in the building. They're currently investigating

254
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,440
Speaker 1: and everyone, everyone who was in the building is going

255
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 1: to be charged, he wrote, just looking out. So you know,

256
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,520
Speaker 1: there are plenty of signs that potentially one explanation here

257
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,600
Speaker 1: is that they were ideologically sympathetic, and so they failed

258
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 1: to prepare in advance, not just the Capitol Police, but

259
00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,120
Speaker 1: the FBI, who we know had infiltrators within some of

260
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,880
Speaker 1: these groups. They didn't take it seriously. They were too

261
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 1: distracted with their other like elaborate designing plots for Gretchen

262
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,440
Speaker 1: Whitmer and Agent provocateurs and Black Lives Matter protests and

263
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 1: all of those things to actually effectively prepare for what

264
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,600
Speaker 1: was a very dangerous situation. And then on the day

265
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 1: of as we said before, at the time people were

266
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,840
Speaker 1: allowed and the Capitol Police themselves were investigating whether their

267
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 1: people actually responded in the way that they were supposed to. Now,

268
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,360
Speaker 1: the reason that this all turned is because I think

269
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 1: there were a couple things that happened. First of all,

270
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, this was at a time when Democrats were

271
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,079
Speaker 1: all freaked out about what defund the police had done

272
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,800
Speaker 1: to their standing with voters, so they were skittish about

273
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 1: like critiquing law enforcement whatsoever. Republicans usually reliably back up

274
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,280
Speaker 1: law enforcement kind of no matter what, no matter whether

275
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 1: they were good, bad, and different, honest line, whatever. And

276
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 1: Democrats decided that the simple narrative that they wanted to

277
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 1: go with on January sixth, because they thought it would

278
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 1: be the most sympathetic to the American public, is these

279
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 1: people were heroes, the Capitol Police officers in every single instance,

280
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 1: and the people on the other side are the clear villains.

281
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 1: And so they went with that Disney version of events,

282
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: which obviously obscured some key reasons why the response failed

283
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,520
Speaker 1: so devastatingly on that day. Yeah, and I think that's

284
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,720
Speaker 1: a very important thing to underscore, which is you can

285
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,080
Speaker 1: what's his name with Eugene Goodman, right, he was one

286
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 1: of those who escorted the senators. Sure, absolutely a heroic act.

287
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,240
Speaker 1: But at the same time of the famous video, let's

288
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 1: go ahead and put it up there on the screen,

289
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 1: we have Capitol police officers here literally shown opening the

290
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,480
Speaker 1: gates for protesters. I mean, there is literally no zero,

291
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 1: zero innocent explanation for this. You could see the guy

292
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,440
Speaker 1: waving people in from the crowd. How can you possibly

293
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 1: claim that that wasn't one of the greatest failures of

294
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 1: all I mean, imagine also if these people had been

295
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,800
Speaker 1: more violent, they could have burned this thing to the ground,

296
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 1: like eighteen twelve. It's one of those where you initially

297
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 1: had a little bit of criticism. Some Republicans were like, hey,

298
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, why did you not call in the National

299
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,120
Speaker 1: Guard because you apparently had some level of chain of command.

300
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 1: And then everybody just quashed it and we decided to

301
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 1: move on. And then the jan six Committee, which was

302
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 1: supposed to get to the bottom of this type of stuff,

303
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,520
Speaker 1: just ignored it completely. And of course here's the worst part.

304
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,480
Speaker 1: Put this up there after everything. Because of this narrative,

305
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,840
Speaker 1: the Capitol Police received two point one billion dollars in

306
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,480
Speaker 1: July of twenty twenty one in quote emergency funding to

307
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 1: avoid furloughs, to pay for overtime, to pay for training,

308
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 1: when in reality, on that day, if you have one

309
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,600
Speaker 1: hundred more police officers, maybe with the proper riot gear,

310
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,320
Speaker 1: the entire thing goes completely differently. And we are talking

311
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,760
Speaker 1: here about billions upon billions that have now been given

312
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 1: to this incompetent agency, which clearly failed dramatically. Nobody was

313
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 1: ever fired at the very top. There was never any

314
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,560
Speaker 1: real screen. They didn't even have a real commission, Like look,

315
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot to say about the nine to eleven commission,

316
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,800
Speaker 1: but it did at least recommend some changes to the

317
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 1: way that intelligence sharing and the way that the US

318
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 1: intelligence community would operate with respect to terrorist threats, because

319
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 1: we all acknowledge, you know, Biparson fashion, like this is

320
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 1: one of the greatest law enforcement and intelligence failures literally

321
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,000
Speaker 1: of all times. So let's try to make sure that

322
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,400
Speaker 1: we avoid it. And unfortunately we also gave them a

323
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 1: ton of money and not enough oversight. But in this case,

324
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 1: we didn't even do the oversight. We just gave them

325
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,560
Speaker 1: more money. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, And the

326
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,160
Speaker 1: last thing I want to say about this too is

327
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 1: the QAnon shaman dude. I think his name is what

328
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 1: Jessin Chansley is at. Yes, I mean they clearly because

329
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 1: he was like the most visible symbol of the day,

330
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,640
Speaker 1: which he you know, took upon himself and listen, he's

331
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,159
Speaker 1: responsible for his own actions and no one here is

332
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,359
Speaker 1: saying otherwise. However, I do think it's outrageous that they

333
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,879
Speaker 1: didn't have access to this footage when he was considering

334
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,400
Speaker 1: mounting a defense. Now he pled guilty very quickly. Maybe

335
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have made a difference, but it could have

336
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,919
Speaker 1: potentially made a difference in terms of sentencing. And you know,

337
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: I try to stand up for people's rights regardless of

338
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,600
Speaker 1: whether I agree with them politically or not, and I

339
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 1: think it would be really inconsistent if we didn't do

340
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 1: so here and say he deserved to have access to

341
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,200
Speaker 1: this footage, his defense deserve to have access to this footage,

342
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,199
Speaker 1: and potentially things may have gone somewhat different for him.

343
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,639
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of other defendants who actually requested

344
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 1: who the judge denied access to this footage and sentenced

345
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 1: them and did not even allow the jury or even

346
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,919
Speaker 1: their own attorneys to be able to present any of

347
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 1: this to try and strike a different deal. As you said,

348
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,600
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way you cannot defend that because

349
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 1: if that flat I mean, listen, what did he end

350
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,160
Speaker 1: up getting four years? I think, yeah, I mean, if

351
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: this comes out, you know, and it went to trial

352
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,640
Speaker 1: in Northern Virginia, jury probably would have convicted him. Anyways,

353
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,359
Speaker 1: that said, you know, you have no idea what it

354
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 1: could have gone differently. So anyway, like you said, he

355
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 1: pled guilty. He is a grown man at the end

356
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 1: of the day. Nobody asked him to take a shirt

357
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,239
Speaker 1: off draw weird pentagrams on it stormcap Yah. Yeah, Like,

358
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the man is innocent, but you know,

359
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 1: the whole point of trial, and you know, especially in

360
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 1: our judicial system, is to try, you know, innocent. You're

361
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,880
Speaker 1: innocent before proven guilty, and you're supposed to be able

362
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 1: to give in the best possible chance at providing a defense.

363
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: And I don't think it was fair that they withheld it. Anyway.

364
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 1: Let's go to the next part here inside of the

365
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,959
Speaker 1: ongoing one point six billion dollar lawsuit for Dominion voting

366
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,159
Speaker 1: Systems versus Fox News, of which Fox has a very

367
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 1: serious chance of suffering reputation, not only just reputational damage

368
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 1: now at this point through the discovery process, but they

369
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,160
Speaker 1: may have to pay, and pay big time. So let's

370
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 1: go and put this up there on the screen. Interesting

371
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 1: exchange between Tucker Carlson and I believe it's one of

372
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,720
Speaker 1: his producers. This is on January fourth. He says, quote,

373
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 1: we are very very close to be able to ignore

374
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,880
Speaker 1: Trump most nights. I truly cannot wait. I want nothing more.

375
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: It feels very close. I imagine things will start around

376
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 1: mid February. That's from an unknown probably likely somebody works

377
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: on the show. He says, quote, I hate him passionately.

378
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 1: I blew up at Peter today, Peter Navarro in frustration.

379
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,400
Speaker 1: I actually like Peter, but I can't handle much more

380
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 1: of this. Put the next one up there on the screen,

381
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,879
Speaker 1: which I actually found this one to be funnier, he

382
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 1: says Tucker Carlton. It really explains why the left wins

383
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 1: so much. They have Mark Elliots and lawyers from every

384
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 1: other major law firm. We have Lynnwood and Sydney Powell,

385
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,639
Speaker 1: that's the last four years. We've got a lot to

386
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 1: show for it, because admitting what a disaster it's been

387
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: is too tough to die out because we're all pretending

388
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 1: we've got a lot to show for it. But yeah,

389
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: there isn't really an upside to Trump. So that's something

390
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 1: that he put. You know, I'm curious for Crystal because

391
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,119
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily read it the same way. I think

392
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: that while Tucker has always played defense for Trump, he

393
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 1: has not necessarily defended him. He has always positioned himself.

394
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 1: And look, this is more of a content way that

395
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people in Fox are, which is if

396
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: you don't have someone that you want to one hundred

397
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 1: percent defend, what you do is you just attack all

398
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: of their enemies and you focus on the enemy specifically.

399
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: And you know in private, I know, you know, based

400
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: on the reporting and all that, what came out from

401
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,439
Speaker 1: Syria where he basically convinced Trump not to bomb Iran,

402
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,439
Speaker 1: he was one of the major forces on that. He

403
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: also part of the reason why he would reserve his fire,

404
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 1: from what I understand, was because he maintained a decent

405
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: relationship with Trump, and every once in a while Trump

406
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 1: would actually listen to him. For example, COVID he was

407
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 1: one of those people who traveled to Florida and was like, hey,

408
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: you need to take this seriously. I am not defending him.

409
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, from what I have understood his

410
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 1: position positionality with Trump is that Trump was like a

411
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: figure who he didn't necessarily like, didn't necessarily want to defend,

412
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 1: and so would attack the enemies instead. Because also that

413
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 1: makes what good ratings whenever you're dealing with audience. So

414
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think. I mean, I don't doubt

415
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 1: that that's what he tells himself, but it's also cope,

416
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, ultimately, at the end of the day,

417
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 1: your position visa VI the audience, especially as like an

418
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 1: analyst an opinion journalist as he is, is to tell

419
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: them what you really think. And obviously he was not

420
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: telling them what he really thought and very much misled

421
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: the audience, if not outright lied to the audience about

422
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: his actual views of the situation. In that, I don't

423
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: think he's unique. I mean, there were, you know, a

424
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: lot of elite Republicans and journalists who had some similar

425
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: rationale about like, oh well, if I work in the administration,

426
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: and I do his dirty work for him, then I'll

427
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: be able to like influence him a little bit, or

428
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, this is what I have to do in

429
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 1: order to keep my job, et cetera, et cetera. You know,

430
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: Tucker's a wealthy guy. He would be fine if his

431
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: ratings fell. He'd be fine if he was out of

432
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,959
Speaker 1: a job at Fox. And so I think it's shameful,

433
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 1: like that's the basic deal you make with your audience,

434
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 1: that you're going to be straightforward with them, and so,

435
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think there's always a question people's minds

436
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: when they're watching cable doos, whether it's Fox or other

437
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: outlets of like do these people really believe what they're

438
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: selling the public? And in this instance, and in the

439
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: instance of a lot of Sean Hannity and laur Ingram

440
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: based on some of the texts that came out about

441
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: them too, the answer is plainly no. I think it's

442
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: actually a sad tale because it's one of those where

443
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: that is a perfect illustration of how, whenever you want

444
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: to maintain influence inside of the system, many times you

445
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: really can't say exactly what you think. And the reason,

446
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: as you said, I mean there's no question, like, look,

447
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: Fox could fire him tomorrow, he'd have one of the

448
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: most popular podcasts of all time. I have no doubt

449
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 1: about that whatsoever. I think it'd be completely fine in

450
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: an independent media environment. As you said, I don't think

451
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: it particularly cares even about money at this point. So

452
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: what is the point of the game, And I mean

453
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: most of them like the influence that Fox gives them

454
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: to influence policy, to have their actual opinions influence the

455
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: political process. The speakers race Ukraine, COVID. I laid out

456
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: some of those examples, but unfortunately, and one of the

457
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: reasons that you and I decided to do this, and

458
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: increasingly the more that we have done this have probably

459
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: the less least amount not even influenced, but even contact

460
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 1: with the system, is that when you say what you

461
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: think that hurts you inside of the system because they

462
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: don't they don't, they don't even appreciate it. They actively

463
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 1: punish people, and so it's difficult, you know, it really

464
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: is is like when you're inside of this, it is

465
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: a game in which saying you know, I look, I

466
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: always try to tell people exactly what I think, and

467
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: it has cost me a lot personal relationships professional relationships

468
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: and all that. You know, with the knowledge, I think

469
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: that obviously you're going to hold me accountable. But also,

470
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, many of the people watching this show are

471
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: they would I think they would know if you're pulling

472
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 1: your punch, yes, And I think that's that's what the

473
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: unfortunate part of it. Yeah, well, what you see zooming

474
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: out from Tucker and looking at the entirety of the

475
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: Fox text message revelations, which are pretty devastating to them.

476
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: I mean, any like a reasonable person looking at that

477
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,239
Speaker 1: would be like, Okay, you all are completely manipulative, like

478
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: just selling us what we want to hear. They are

479
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: suffering deeply from audience capture, and you know, the road

480
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 1: to hell is paved with this sort of rationalization of like, well,

481
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: I got to back them up on this thing because

482
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: then I'll maintain my influence. I got to go along

483
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,719
Speaker 1: with this other thing because I'll maintain my influence. And

484
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: that's never been more clear than with a figure like Trump,

485
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: who's just going to keep pushing and pushing and pushing

486
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: and pushing the envelope until you find yourself like, you know,

487
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: pretending that January sixth was actually totally fine or pretending

488
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: like going along with stop the steal when you privately

489
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: are like Sydney Pal's insane and she's a lunatic, and

490
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: this is all complete nonsense, Like he's just going to

491
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: keep pushing you to a more and more ridiculous spot.

492
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: But since you justified all these other steps along the road,

493
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: you're going to keep justifying the further steps down the road,

494
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: even though now you've just gone like wildly away from

495
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: what you actually think. And to give you an example

496
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: that you know is on like the liberal side of things,

497
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: it reminds me in a small way of Elizabeth Warren

498
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: in the last presidential primary, where you know, she came

499
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: into her political power a deep critique of Joe Biden

500
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: on economic issues and specifically on bankruptcy law. But when

501
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: she was actually up on the stage, rather than saying

502
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: what she really at least at one point believed and

503
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: had said very clearly and powerfully before she held her fire,

504
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: why because she wanted to maintain her influence. Remember she said,

505
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: I'm just a player in the game. That was her

506
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: whole thing was like, well, I can't really say what

507
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: I actually think about this guy because he may well win.

508
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: I want to be vice president or maybe Treasury secretary.

509
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: I want to get invited to the White House. I

510
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 1: want to keep being a player in the game. And

511
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: so she ultimately really compromised like a key part of

512
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: what she claimed to believe previously and what she built

513
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: her entire career on, out of a justification of, well,

514
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: I got to play nice because I need to be

515
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: a player inside the game. So I think we've seen

516
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: this play out so many times in Washington. I mean,

517
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: this is a particularly stark example where the guy that

518
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: you've been propping up for years behind the scenes, You're

519
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: not just like I don't know about this guy, You're like,

520
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: I hate him passionately. Right. It's a particularly stark example,

521
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: but I think you can find a million such examples

522
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: at CNN, MSNBC, Fox News and throughout the DC ecosystem,

523
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: where people rationalize and justify morally indefensible positions insert because

524
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: they tell themselves they're so important that they need to

525
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: maintain their influences. I thought that too, you know, I

526
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: saw a lot of mainstream media people be like, this

527
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 1: is how little Fox thinks of its audience. I was like, yo,

528
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: we're going to pretend that you don't think just as

529
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: little of yours. I'm like, let me ask you behind

530
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: closed doors, behind a glass of whiskey, like you really

531
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: believed in Russiagate the whole time, Like you really think

532
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: Joe Biden is up there and that he has a

533
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: stutter that miraculously appeared when you were seventy nine years old, Like,

534
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: give me a break. So look, I think it's a

535
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: systemic problem all of that. So yeah, anyway, that's what

536
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: it is. And I've never been happier just to be

537
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: able to do this show. We've already we've cut those

538
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: times the sale. Yeah, we're good, We're free, and it

539
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: is a good thing, all right. So let's talk about

540
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: what is going on with the debt sailing. There are

541
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: a couple of things that are converging right at the moment.

542
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: On the one side, you have Joe Biden putting out

543
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: his budget. Now this is not directly about the debt ceiling,

544
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: but it is kind of him positioning himself and creating

545
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: the messaging he wants about his vision for the country

546
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: versus the ground that the Republicans are staking out. So

547
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: in that way you can sort of see these as

548
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: you know, two separate positions on the debt ceiling, even

549
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: though that's not quite directly the case. All right, let's

550
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: put this up on the screen. In terms of what

551
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: Joe Biden is proposing. We have some new details this

552
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: morning I can share with you as well. This is

553
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: the New York Times. They say he set to detail

554
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: three trillion dollars in measures to reduce the deficits. This

555
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: is primarily the deficit reduction part of this is primarily

556
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: about taxes on the wealthy and large corporation, so they

557
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,959
Speaker 1: say is expected to announce a new tax on households

558
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: worth more than one hundred million dollars woud apply to

559
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: both their earned income and unrealized gains in the value

560
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: of their liquid assets like stock, So this is kind

561
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: of a well tax. He will also call for the

562
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: quadrupling of attacks on stock buybacks that was approved as

563
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: part of a sweeping tax healthcare and climate Billy signed

564
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: last year. So I'm actually going to go deep on

565
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: stock buybacks in my monologue today, if you guys are

566
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: interested in such things. The original tax that he levied,

567
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: I love the way they phrased this was one percent.

568
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: It did absolutely nothing in terms of like curtailing stock buybacks.

569
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: So when they're like, he's quadrupling a tax on stock

570
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: buybacks from one percent to four percent, So wow, that's incredible,

571
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: they should just be banned outright. Moving on, they also

572
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: said that it will increase an expansion of an investment

573
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: tax on high earners, which would be directed to the

574
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: Medicare Trust. Mind, they say that that plus the proposed

575
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: savings from additional Medicare negotiations on prescription drugs, would reduce

576
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: deficits by about nine hundred billion dollars on net and soccer.

577
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: There's additional reporting this month from the Washington Post. I

578
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: think Jeff Stein was involved in that that they're going

579
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: to in the budget propose some of the pieces that

580
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: were initially in build back better, including the expanded child

581
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: tax credit, some moves on paid family leave, some moves

582
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: on childcare, and some moves on universal pre K, along

583
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: with this set of tax hikes on the wealthy effectively

584
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: in order to so that's sort of their proposal is

585
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: an expanded social safety net plus these tax cuts or

586
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: tax hikes on the wealthy in order to pay for it. Right,

587
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: And I think I know Counterpoints covered this yesterday too,

588
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: but it bears repeating, listen, this budget is totally fake.

589
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: It's not going to happen. There has not been an act.

590
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: It's a messaging BUDGDGET. That's all that has passed Congress.

591
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: I want to say since two thousand and not maybe

592
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, the last time that the president

593
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: delivered a budget. They held hearings on the budget and

594
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: then they passed it in full. Our budgeting system is

595
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: a gigantic mass, basically been dead since the days of Obama.

596
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: So I think people should understand how this is basically

597
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: a campaign. That's exactly right. It's a messaging document staking

598
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: out his position, which is high taxes on the rich,

599
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: expand the social safety net. The Republican position heading into

600
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: the debt ceiling showdown is quite different. Let's go and

601
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: put this up on the screen. So this is also

602
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: the New York Times. They say House GOP prepares to

603
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: slash federal programs in coming budget showdown, with social Security

604
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: and medicare off the table. Conservatives are focusing on a

605
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: wide range of smaller programs as a clash with Biden

606
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: and Democrats looms. So they have taken off the table

607
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: after initially sort of like some of them were flirting

608
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: with it, but they have now taken off the tables

609
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: are security and Medicare. I think Trump was probably very

610
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: influential on that, as well as honestly Biden in the

611
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: State of the Union, who when they all freak down, Oh,

612
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,719
Speaker 1: of course, we don't cut Social Security Medicare, even though

613
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: we've been trying to do that for decades and decades

614
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: and decades, they kind of back themselves into a corner

615
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: on that one. So those have been put off the table.

616
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: And they also don't want to really cut the defense

617
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: budget other than some like minor line item for a

618
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: like diversity initiative, which basically amounts to next to nothing

619
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: in terms of the actual amount of money you would save.

620
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: So since they put those big pieces on the table

621
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: off the table, that means that they have to deeply

622
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: slash basically everything else. What they are talking about here

623
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: in this article. In particular, they say it includes a

624
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: forty five percent cut to for and aid, adding work

625
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: requirements for food Stamp and Medicaid beneficiaries, forty three percent

626
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: cut to housing programs, including phasing out Section eight. All

627
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: together cutting the FBI's counter intelligence budget by nearly half.

628
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: I think I could probably get behind that piece of

629
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: it and eliminating Obamacare expansions to Medicaid to save tens

630
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: of billions of dollars. Nearly forty states have accepted that

631
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: Medicaid expansion under the Affordable Care Act. About twelve million

632
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: people benefit from that. So what they're proposing here is

633
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: effectively cutting healthcare for twelve million Americans, among a lot

634
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: of other cuts. So that's the position that they've found

635
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: themselves at. And we've been talking about Listen, if you're

636
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: taking entitlements and defense off the table, like the math

637
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 1: doesn't really work out, you basically have to kill the

638
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: entire rest of the federal budget in order for this

639
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: to come together with the math that they want, right.

640
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: I think it's important for people to understand that too,

641
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: which is like, if you really do want to get

642
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: serious about it and you don't want to cut defense, like,

643
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: there's really no way to do it without impacting a

644
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: lot of American programs which are actually broadly popular amongst Republicans.

645
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: There's a reason that forty how many states voted for

646
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: Republicans a lot more than four or yeah, a lot

647
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: less than ten or a lot more than ten. You

648
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: tend that haven't expanded Medicaid, and that's because it's actually

649
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: very popular, especially in the South, with a lot of

650
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: governors who have quietly kind of used it for expansion.

651
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: I would just say that, and it does not necessarily

652
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: fit within the spirit of don't touch Social Security and

653
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: Medicare because Medicaid is also used increasingly also by a

654
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: lot of Republican voters. So that's one that I would know.

655
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: And it's popular too, by the way. Yeah, I mean, look,

656
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: healthcare is popular. Don't know why. It's exactly difficult for

657
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: people to get their minds around that broadly in terms

658
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: of the budget too. Even with the GOP one, it's

659
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: the same thing as a messaging campaign document. It doesn't

660
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: mean anything like much of this is not going to happen.

661
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: I increasingly looking at these two documents, I'm curious what

662
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: you think. I think we're just going right back to seaquestration.

663
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: There is no for people who don't know what sequestration is.

664
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: It basically is off the board percentage cuts against It's

665
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: like a haircut across the federal government, including with the

666
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: defense budget. And it's one of the ways that they

667
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: were able to square it during the Obama years, and

668
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: it's because there was just no there was no agreement

669
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: on anything. All they could agree to fund the government

670
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: was basically haircutting all of federal spending. And when you

671
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: do that, it broadly impacts all programs across the board.

672
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: So I don't see a way that we get through

673
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: all of this without just going right back towards it.

674
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, sequestration was very unpopular. People in

675
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: the military hated it, people domestic programs hate Republicans hated it,

676
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: Democrats hated it, And that's part of the reason why

677
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: I was the only compromise. I don't know, I genuinely

678
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: don't know how it gets resolved. And the deadline is

679
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's the summer, so this is not

680
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: far away. And the Republican caucus, obviously in the House,

681
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: they have a very small majority, so it's not just

682
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: getting agreement with the Democrats, who you know, are disgusted

683
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: with the idea of taking the country's economy hostage to

684
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: force any spending cuts through. So that's the you know,

685
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: that's the big barrier. But even within their own caucus,

686
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: this is an initial sort of like high level plan,

687
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: but when you actually get to the nitty gritty and

688
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,720
Speaker 1: people start realizing like, oh, this is going to hurt

689
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: this project in my district. This is going to hurt

690
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: this program in my district. My constituents are going to

691
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: be furious if they lose their healthcare and they start

692
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: blaming me. That becomes very dicey as well. And then

693
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: you have some hardliners in the Republican Caucus who are like,

694
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm not voting for a debts only increased period period,

695
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: end of story. I don't care how, I'm just not

696
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: doing it, period. So I genuinely we do not know

697
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: how this is going to be resolved, and that's why

698
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: we're continuing to focus on it, because it's this thing

699
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: that's sort of hanging out there as a real threat

700
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: to the economy and a major political like blow up

701
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: in the near future, and there is no clear resolutions. No,

702
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: there isn't a clear resolution. That's an important point for

703
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: everybody to understand too, which is that we could very

704
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: certainly get to some sort of debt breach. One of

705
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: the reasons why I don't think it will matter is

706
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: that just think about it, you know, you may eventually

707
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: What would happen is and also McCarthy shot himself in

708
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: the foot with the motion to vacate. All the Democrats

709
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: would need to do is force a vote onto the

710
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: floor through some legislative chicanery, and then you could get

711
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: some moderate Republicans to join the Dems to push through

712
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: a debt sealing package. The only question is whether Hakim

713
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: Jefferies would let the Democrats do that. But I do

714
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: think that if we came down to some showdown and

715
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: he had only ten Republicans doing the holdout, I think

716
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: there are enough Dems who are like, look, we're not

717
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: going to crash the economy, let's just pass. So you

718
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: think there'll be some sort of a like what do

719
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: they call that from a legally blonde what's the petition? Oh,

720
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: discharge petition? Yes, well, discharge petition is a little bit different.

721
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: I think discharge petition is through a committee, but it

722
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: is similar principle in terms of given the rules that

723
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: McCarthy set forward. If people don't know the history of

724
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: the original debt ceiling fight, this happened all the time.

725
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: Bayiner would go to Pelosi and be like, listen, I

726
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: can't pass this thing without you, so I'm going to

727
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: bring it to the floor, you bring, you bringing some

728
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: of your people in far left. Yeah, right. Problem is

729
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: but that's the issue is because they made it so

730
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: easy to toss McCarthy. If he does make a deal

731
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: with them, he will know that that's the end of

732
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: his speakers. It's possible, and that's why it's so that's

733
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: why the positions are so hardened, and it's so difficult

734
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: to see the way that they get out of this.

735
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: The Republicans are clearly going to they're either really actually

736
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: serious and comfortable with breaching the debt ceiling and whatever

737
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: fallout may occur from that, or they're going to great

738
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: lengths to bluff in that regard. Let's go and put

739
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: this last piece up on the screen, because they have gone.

740
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: They have taken what they describe as an step on

741
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: preparing for federal default. And basically what they're doing here

742
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: is something called debt prioritization, where they're taking all of

743
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: the hour running millions of payments that the federal government

744
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: puts out and they're trying to say, all right, well,

745
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: we'll keep paying these ones if we breach the debt ceiling,

746
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: but not those ones. And they're trying to come up

747
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: with like what does that whole process look like ultimately,

748
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: because they want to either signal like we're serious, we're

749
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: not worried about going breaching the debt ceiling, We've got

750
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: a plan in place, or because they want to bluff

751
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: and want to convince everybody that they're actually serious and

752
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: try to force cuts that way. Well, it's one of

753
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: those where this is a big fight. One of the

754
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: things that in the previous era they realize is that

755
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: if you give the executive the authority, because they have

756
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: incoming revenue, they could distribute it the way that they

757
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: would want to. This would be a way for Congress

758
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: to bigfoot the Treasury Department say no, if we go

759
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: into default, you're going to spend money exactly the way

760
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: that we want to. We won't let you support social programs.

761
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: You have to only do like debt payoffs or whatever,

762
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: which have to be a giveaway to Wall Street. Which

763
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: is funny, yeah, but huge giveaway to Wall Street. I

764
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: mean it would if they go forward with it would

765
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: be huge political It would be a disaster for the

766
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: economy and no one should cheer for it. It would

767
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: be a political gift to Democrats because they can say, oh,

768
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: you're paying off the like wealthy bondholders, but you're letting

769
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: kids go hungry and like stripping people's healthcare. How is

770
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: that going to look for the Republican Party? So in

771
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: any case, it's a mess. I don't know how it's

772
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 1: going to be resolved, and everybody's sort of like staking

773
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: out their positions right now. Yeah, good luck. Okay, have

774
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of elon Twitter government news which is

775
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: quite interesting. And I'm not one hundred percent sure what

776
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: to make of all of this, so just put the

777
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 1: facts upon the screen for you. Let's go and put

778
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: this on up from the Wall Street Journal, the FTC,

779
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: that's the Federal Trade Commission, led by Lena Khan. Their

780
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: Twitter investigation sought Elon Musk's internal communications, including journalists names.

781
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: Documents obtained by a House panel shed light on the

782
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: probe into Twitter's compliance with a settlement. Let me go

783
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: and read a little bit of this to you. They say.

784
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: They demanded Twitter turnover internal communications related to owner Elon Musk,

785
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: as well as detailed info about layoffs, citing concerns that

786
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: staff reductions could compromise the company's ability to protect users.

787
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: Documents viewed by The Wall Street Journal show they go

788
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: on to say in twelve letters sent to Twitter and lawyers,

789
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: the FTC asked the company to identify all journalists granted

790
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: access to company records and provide info about the launch

791
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: of the revamped Twitter Blue subscription service. They're also seeking

792
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: to depose mister Musk in connection with the probe. Now,

793
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: the core of what they say are their concerns here

794
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: are whether Twitter is holding up their end of the

795
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: agreement that they have already with the FDC, because there's

796
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: already a consent order in place with regards to keeping

797
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: users information private. I'm somewhat sympathetic to that end, especially

798
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: given that, I mean, Twitter has been a shit show,

799
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: like keeps crashing, having problems. Listen, it's easy forget that

800
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: Twitter has long had a lot of technical issues, but

801
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: they have definitely accelerated in the Elon Musk era. So

802
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: I think it's reasonable for the FTC to be, like,

803
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: you holding up your end of the deal here, are

804
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: you actually protecting users privacy in the way that you're

805
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: supposed to. However, the part that is very, very troubling

806
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: from a First Amendment perspective is them demanding the names

807
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: of journalists who were given access to Twitter information and

808
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,959
Speaker 1: also you know, wanting to know the specifics of those

809
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: communications and exactly what was provided. So that was actually

810
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: my take. So the more I read into it, I

811
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: was like, is this a political persecution of Elon? Like

812
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: what's happening here? It's actually kind of complicated. So, as

813
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: you alluded to, there is a consent degree and the

814
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: reason why is that back in twenty eleven, there was

815
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: a consent order between FTC and Twitter that barred it

816
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: from misrepresenting how its individual's contact information would be stored.

817
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: So they did not disclose that they for years had

818
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: actually fed information including phone numbers and email addresses. This

819
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: is before any time that Twitter was taken over by Elon.

820
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: Those were used ostensibly for account security purposes two factor authentication.

821
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: They were using that data without our consent and feeding

822
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: it into their advertising tools, so linking our phone numbers

823
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: with stuff that we had signed up before on our

824
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: iPhone so they could better serve us ads. They had

825
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: actually had to pay one hundred and fifty million dollar fine,

826
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: and between twenty and thirteen and twenty nineteen, Twitter had

827
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: told users that it was collecting their information only to

828
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: enable multi factor authentication measures on their accounts. According to

829
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: the DOJ complaint, the company did not notify any users.

830
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: Actually remember this because I never was notified either that

831
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: this information would be used to help sell ads. So

832
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: this is called a deceptive behavior tactic that affected up

833
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: to one hundred and forty million people, and it was

834
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: directly admitted to by then Chief Privacy offer officer over

835
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: at Twitter. Actually, what this really underscores to me is,

836
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: like I said, at first, I was like, I feel

837
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: like this is BS, They're just going after Elon. But

838
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: when I read into it, this is actually part of

839
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: the mess that he bought. And I'm not quite sure

840
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: that he understood that there was this consent degree which

841
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: they were operating under, where the DOJ basically has the

842
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: right with the FTC to come in and slap you

843
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: with massive fines if you are not abiding by that

844
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: same system. It also calls into the question with Twitter

845
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: Blue and some of the other personal data, he basically

846
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: is going to have to prove that all of the

847
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: info that we willingly provide to Twitter is properly disclosed

848
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: to us how that info is used. And the only

849
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: reason why I think it's possibly he could be in

850
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: trouble is there's just not a lot of employees working

851
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: on this stuff. They may not even even known when

852
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: they bought the company. Yeah, that this is kind of

853
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: the stuff that you have to disclose, and this is

854
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: the legal nightmare that you walk into with a lot

855
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: of these social media companies. And clearly like the layoffs

856
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: have been very aggressive and also very haphazard. There was

857
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: a whole exchange that unfolded on Twitter that I'm sure

858
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: some of you saw, where there was a guy it

859
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: was like, hey, am I still an employer or not?

860
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: Because I don't know. I didn't get any notification, but

861
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: I don't have an email. There was a kind of

862
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: an ugly back and forth. Ultimately Elon had to end

863
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: up apologizing this guy. And I don't think you should

864
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: have apologized. Well, I think he was worried about a lawsuit.

865
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: It was one hundred percent worried about a lawsuit because

866
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: he was you know, he was like, I don't know

867
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: whether what he said about this man was true or not,

868
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: but it was very ugly and so he ultimately had

869
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: to apologize and was like he's considering coming back to

870
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: work for us. So anyway, it's just a sign that

871
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: the layoffs were done in a very brute force like

872
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: kind of a way, and so it's not crazy to

873
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: think that some of the people who were in charge

874
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: of overseeing the implementation of this consent decree may no

875
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 1: longer be there. Let's return those to the journalist's question.

876
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: I think this is probably the single most one. It

877
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 1: is not in the and we've done quite a bit

878
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: of defense here for Lenacon. It is not in the

879
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 1: business of the United States government to say, quote, why

880
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: the FTC needs to know the identity of journalists who

881
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: are engaging with Twitter. As their lawyer says, there is

882
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: no logical reason why the FTC, on the basis of

883
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: user privacy, needs to analyze all of Twitter's personnel decisions.

884
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: And there's no logical reason why they need every single

885
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: internal Twitter communication about Elon Musk. So this is where

886
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: a government overstep almost certainly could be one, and with

887
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: the journalist one where I'm sorry, I don't care who

888
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: you are, what administration, whether good work you have done,

889
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: it is not in your business to be subpoenaing and

890
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: looking at the private communications to Twitter and its journalists,

891
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: because that actually would look like retribution for publishing the

892
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 1: Twitter files. There was also no violating a consent degree.

893
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: Crystal is one thing. Yeah, journalist communications is a whole

894
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: other pie. Hundred percent agree. And there's another piece here,

895
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: which is, of course the media angle, which is, you know,

896
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: the brave defenders of the First Amendment. Many outlets just

897
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: left out that part right of all of this, like

898
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: they just didn't mention that, Like, oh and by the way,

899
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: they asked for all of these details about the journalists

900
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: they were communicating with, they just left that out, not

901
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: to mention that. So, I mean, basically no mainstream outlets

902
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: actually covered any of the revelations from the Twitter files anyway,

903
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: and so which was disgraceful and insane. Given that Twitter

904
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: is really important, there's a lot of interest in it.

905
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: What happened there previously is really important. What's happening there

906
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 1: currently is really important, especially in terms of like elite

907
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: shaping of national opinion. So a lot of media failures here,

908
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 1: very clear, and a lot of media hypocrisy here. Very cool.

909
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely put the next one up there too,

910
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: please on the screen, which is that actually that suffered

911
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: after a basically a shutdown of the website for a

912
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: while where you basically could not link out to different websites.

913
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: Elon said, quote, a small API change had massive ramifications.

914
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: The code stack is extremely brittle for no good reason,

915
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: will ultimately need a complete rewrite. So he's blaming basically

916
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: the previous engineers at Twitter. It's actually, I mean, certainly possible.

917
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: Maybe from what I have heard, it's not even just Twitter,

918
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,479
Speaker 1: but many of the most important systems. Remember we found

919
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: out with the no tam thing with the FAA, where

920
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: they're like, a single code change can bring down the

921
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: entire thing. People were like, you would be shocked at

922
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 1: how many massive corporate, multi billion dollar corporations are architecture

923
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: this way where literally just one guy accidentally presses one

924
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: thing in the entire site can shut down. So yeah,

925
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows whether it has somebody to do

926
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: with the layoffs or with the code stack, but that

927
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: probably does not help because if the code sack is

928
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: so brittle, if they don't have as many employees who

929
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: are working on maintaining the databases and the security, that

930
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: also could lead to problems for you privacy wise, if

931
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: you're vulnerable for sure attack to you know, like a yes,

932
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: some sort of phishing attack or a data breach or

933
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: anything like that that would really be a devastating blow

934
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: to it and zooming out from Twitter. This is a

935
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: this Remember we used to talk to Gigisone who actually

936
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: her nomination just just got new blown up by Joe Manchin.

937
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: But anyway, she used to talk to us about how,

938
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 1: you know, it's the penalties on companies for like keeping

939
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: their systems so insecure that people's private, private data can

940
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: be breached all the time, Like it's very low. I

941
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: am very much in favor of there being a lot

942
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: more penalties and a lot more scrutiny over the way

943
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: that companies protect their data. So in that way, I'm sympathetic.

944
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, the journalists piece absolutely not. And it's shameful

945
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: that the media just ultimately goes along with it and

946
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: doesn't say anything. One last piece because I look this

947
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: up about the ounages on Twitter under Elon, because as

948
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: I said before, like Twitter has I think it's probably

949
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: true that Twitter's technology has always been in his word, brittle,

950
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: because there have been certainly outages in the past, but

951
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: they seem to have escalated during the Elon era when

952
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: they have had so many layoffs. You had on January

953
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: twenty third, Android users couldn't load new tweets or post them.

954
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: February eighth, error message told users they were over the

955
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: daily limit for sending tweets for a while. On February fifteenth,

956
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: tweets just stop loading. On February eighteen, the timeline broke,

957
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: replies its beard. On March one, the timeline stopped working,

958
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: and then you had this configuration change leading to these

959
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,919
Speaker 1: issues on Monday. Yeah, exactly correct. So anyway, it could

960
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 1: be a big problem for Elon and the top line

961
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: one on the journalism front is if you actually stand

962
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: for the First Amendment, this is something you're supposed to

963
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: speak out against. But of course, because it's Matt Tayebe

964
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: and Barry Wise involved, they're like, oh no, we you know,

965
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: we're not just going to keep one of us. We're

966
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: just going to keep our power. We're not employed by

967
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: the New York Times, so they don't count bullshit. They

968
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: would they would have a five alarm fire if that

969
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: ever happened to them, fair, especially if it happened under

970
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. Imagine. Okay, so this is really really fascinating.

971
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: So an op ed in the New York Times. You know,

972
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,479
Speaker 1: we've been trying to closely follow what's going on with AI,

973
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: what's going on with chat GPT, bang, all of that stuff.

974
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: So Nom Chomsky, in conjunction with two others wrote an

975
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: op ed for The New York Times about their view

976
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: of these large language models, including Google's Barred and Microsoft's Sydney.

977
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: Let's go and put this up on the screen from

978
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: the New York Times. The headline here is Noam Chomsky

979
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: the false promise of chat GPT, and their view is essentially,

980
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of sensationless headlines about chat

981
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: GPT and about what all of this means for the future,

982
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: and people even sort of, you know, insinuating that they're

983
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: not sentient, but they're getting close to having that sort

984
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: of human reasoning and understanding that's much more complex and

985
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: much more sophisticated than anything we've seen before. And these

986
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: three are really pumping the brakes on that notion. Now.

987
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 1: Nom Chomsky, being a linguist, a language expert, looking at

988
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: the ways that what chat GPT is doing is fundamentally

989
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: different from the way that humans speak and reason and

990
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: the way that human you know, even morality works. Let

991
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: me read you a little bit of this so you

992
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: can get a sense of it. It's very thought provoking. Honestly,

993
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what I think about all of these things,

994
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: so that's why I just want to put all the

995
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: views on the table as we sort of sort through

996
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: what is what and what it means for the future.

997
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: They say open AI's Chat, GPT, Google's Bard, and Microsoft

998
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: Sydney are marvels of machine learning. Roughly speaking, they take

999
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: huge amounts of data, search for patterns in it, and

1000
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: become increasingly proficient and generating statistically probable outputs such as

1001
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: seemingly human like language and thought. These programs have been

1002
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: hailed as the first glimmers on the horizon of artificial

1003
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: general intelligence, that long prophecied moment when mechanical minds surpass

1004
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: human brains not only quantitatively in terms of processing speed

1005
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: and memory, but also qualitatively in terms of intellectual insight,

1006
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: artistic creativity, and every other distinctively human faculty. And that's

1007
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: the part they really push back on on the piece

1008
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: they go on that day may come, but it's done,

1009
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: is not yet breaking. Contrary to what can be read

1010
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: in hyperbolic headlines and reckoned by injudicious investments, the is

1011
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: this borgesian I don't know what that word is. I

1012
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: think I look that way. I believe that is a

1013
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 1: reference to a philosopher, Okay, the American Argentinian writer Jorge

1014
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: Luis Borgess. Okay, I'm probably saying it or Jessean revelation

1015
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: will go with of understanding has not and will not,

1016
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: and we submit cannot occur if machine learning programs like

1017
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 1: chat GPT continue to dominate the field of AI. However

1018
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: useful these programs might be in some narrow domains, we

1019
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: know from the science of linguistics and the philosophy of

1020
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: knowledge that they differ profoundly from how humans reason and

1021
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: use language. These differences place significant limitations on what these

1022
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:02,959
Speaker 1: programs can do. Encoding the with ineradicable defects. They talk

1023
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: about a number of areas where they see them as

1024
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: really deficient and you know, not even close to approximating

1025
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: what a human mind can do. One of them is

1026
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: on morality, and you can see this in some of

1027
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: the fights over like you know, they're framed as like

1028
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: always chat, GPT, woke or whatever. But the deeper level

1029
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: question is any morality is programmed in by humans? Exactly? Yeah,

1030
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: And I actually thought there was a really poignant part

1031
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: where he says, quote, the human mind is not like

1032
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: chat GPT and his ILK, a lumbering statistical engine for

1033
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: pattern matching, gorging on hundreds of terabytes of data and

1034
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: extrapolating the most likely conversational response. On the contrary, the

1035
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 1: human mind is a surprisingly efficient and even elegant system

1036
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: that operates with small amounts of information. It seeks not

1037
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: to infer brute correlations amongst data points, but to create explanations.

1038
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: He points to how a young child acquiring a language

1039
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: is developing unconsciously, automatically and speedily from actually minuscule amounts

1040
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: of data from grammar and a stupendously faciphisticated system of

1041
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: logical principles and parameter So, I don't know. I'm not

1042
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: sure exactly which of these areas that I fall onto,

1043
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: but yeah, one quote I found especially important from Chonsky

1044
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: was this quote, the human mind is not like chatch

1045
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 1: ebt and its ILK, a lumbering statistical engine or pattern matching,

1046
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 1: gorging on hundreds of terabytes of data extrapolating the most

1047
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: likely conversational response or most probable answer to a scientific question.

1048
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: On the contrary, the human mind is surprisingly efficient and

1049
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: even elegant system that operates with small amounts of information.

1050
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: It seeks not to infer brute correlations amongst data points,

1051
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: but to create explanations. So I actually thought it was

1052
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 1: a really interesting piece the way that he lays it out.

1053
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: And I'm of two minds. On the one hand, you know,

1054
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: I believe very much in technology, very much in the

1055
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: ability for technological innovation to surprise us. And sometimes I

1056
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: think it's difficult for people to even conceive of what

1057
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: it would look like in the future. You know the

1058
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: famous Henry four quote where he's like, if I'd ask

1059
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses,

1060
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: because they couldn't even conceive of like what a combustible

1061
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: automobile would look like. On the other we should also

1062
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,879
Speaker 1: have some hubris about like, oh, our human mind, which

1063
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: has evolved over millions of years through selective evolution, and

1064
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: you know, in a very complex process across billions and

1065
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: billions of people that have lived now throughout the world,

1066
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: can be so easily replicated through a statistical pattern recognition regime.

1067
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: I actually thought he was correct, which is, yeah, I

1068
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: think in some areas like rote data computer programming things

1069
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: that are completely linear that don't require as much creativity. Totally.

1070
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: I think he's right. Those those are the ones where

1071
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: it will be most effective. But in terms of like

1072
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: a full scale takeover, well, I'm not so sure. On

1073
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: the other hand, you could take up matrix point of

1074
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: view where our humanity and our like you know, quote

1075
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: unquote efficiency actually keeps us away from operation at the

1076
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: most efficient level, which would enable us to have takeover.

1077
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: So I really don't know which way I stand on it. Yeah,

1078
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: you know, I was reminded as I was reading this

1079
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: of Derek Thompson front of the show interviewed Kevin Bruce

1080
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: of The New York Times, who is the one who

1081
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 1: had that really bizarre like Sydney conversation where the chat

1082
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: GPT being Microsoft thing starts professing its love and everyone's like,

1083
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: oh my god, what is going on here? So anyway,

1084
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: Derek was interviewing Kevin and he asked him this question,

1085
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: which I thought was a really good one, which is,

1086
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, with the self driving cars, it has turned

1087
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 1: out to be very very, very very difficult. Yes, to

1088
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: get the last pieces, you can get it like ninety

1089
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,399
Speaker 1: five percent of the way there, But then there are

1090
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: parts of driving that effectively require in the moment human

1091
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: judgment of ambiguous situations and novel situations. And so he

1092
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: asked him, do you have kind of the same similar

1093
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: type problem with chat GPT where you can get like

1094
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: a lot, you can do some things that are really

1095
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: impressive and get a lot of the way there, but

1096
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: there's this last ten percent that is just an almost

1097
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: unsolvable problem. And it seems to me that that's kind

1098
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: of what Chomsky is laying out here. And it's not like, Okay,

1099
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: if you keep going, you know, what's the new version

1100
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,760
Speaker 1: of it's going to be like chat GPT four whatever

1101
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: that's coming out. As long as you are using this

1102
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: basic model of just taking in all of this these

1103
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 1: inputs and then using a probability to predict what the

1104
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: next like thing for the chat bot to say would be,

1105
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: there's going to be hard limitations and you will never

1106
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: get all of the way there. There will always be

1107
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 1: a limit to how far you're able to go, even

1108
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: as you improve it and improve it and improve it.

1109
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 1: And that seems correct to me. Now, on the other hand,

1110
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: I think that even with what they've designed here, it

1111
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: could be potentially revolutionary you don't have to get all

1112
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: of the way there for it's still to be a

1113
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: revolutionary technology. And I mean that in both the positive

1114
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: and negative sense. One really clear implication to me is

1115
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: with regard to the industry of journalism, where if you

1116
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: have chat GPT able to do a decent job, a

1117
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: you know, ninety ninety five percent decent job of aggregating

1118
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: all of the information about a news story that's out

1119
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: there and putting it on the search results rather than

1120
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: people having to click through. Well, that one innovation in

1121
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: and of itself completely upends the business model of journalism.

1122
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: So I guess I see both the limitations, but I

1123
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 1: also think that even as it exists now, it could

1124
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: be potentially transformational in certain space. So I actually think

1125
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: the perfect analogy is self driving. As you said, So,

1126
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: I've been in a Tesla that was going full self driving,

1127
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 1: and look, I'm gonna be honest, like it was a mess.

1128
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: And the reason why is it was not able to compute.

1129
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: And this is I'm talking on city streets, not a highway,

1130
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: so we're talking like it didn't know, for example, that

1131
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 1: one lane is closed during rush hour, so it goes

1132
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: you into that lane. People are park there during this time,

1133
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: and so then it has to wait to move over.

1134
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: And then in terms of turning left, it didn't read properly.

1135
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: But there were a bunch of different lights here in

1136
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: Washington area. We have these ridiculous systems, and so it

1137
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: reads one as a green light, which is beyond the green. Now, look,

1138
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: these are all problems that maybe can be solved, but

1139
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: also what you said was important. That doesn't mean though,

1140
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: that the car can't still drive itself for hours on

1141
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: the highway. That's pretty nice. That's actually a huge change

1142
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: to the driving experience. So if you're driving five hours

1143
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: and you only have to drive, and you're driving almost

1144
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: entirely on a highway, you're only actually driving for let's

1145
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: say ten percent of that time. That revolutionizes the road trip.

1146
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that it changes your daily commute in

1147
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: the city. So that's one of those where you can

1148
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: actually still go very far. The technology is very impressive,

1149
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: but you're not one hundred percent of the way. I

1150
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: no longer have to look at my car type thing,

1151
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: which was the original promise. So I actually probably just

1152
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: more need to calibrate your expectations. So one projection in

1153
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: terms of upending the workforce is like lawyers, who a

1154
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: lot of what their work is doing is like taking

1155
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: some previous document that they use for some previous situation,

1156
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: going through it, inserting in just like the new company

1157
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: name or the new language into this already pre prepared document.

1158
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: An AI could probably do that pre effectively, but even

1159
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: within that, you're still going to have instances where it's

1160
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: a little complex. You got to actually rework this paragraph

1161
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: a lot. It doesn't quite make sense because this company

1162
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: was different from this company, and their situation is a

1163
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,919
Speaker 1: little bit different in ways that are nuanced and complicated

1164
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: and that an AI isn't really prepared to be able

1165
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: to handle. In the same way that you know, the

1166
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: self driving thing falls apart when there's a sign that

1167
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: just got put up that day of like, well if

1168
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: you drive in this lane, you know you're gonna get

1169
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: a tay or whatever. So I think it will still

1170
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: require a human being to then go in and look

1171
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: at like, Okay, well did they get everything? Did they

1172
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: Does this make sense? Et cetera. But even just the

1173
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: simple fact of automating all of that early grunt work, well,

1174
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: that's going to profoundly change the legal profession because instead

1175
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: of all of those hours that they spend typically going

1176
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: through and like reworking these documents, ninety percent of that

1177
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: done by the AI, and then you're just coming in

1178
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: after the fact and doing like an edit job. So

1179
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: that's as best as I can figure these things out.

1180
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: That's how I see it right now. But I could

1181
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: be totally wrong about any of this and what it

1182
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: means and where it's going. Well, that's why it's fun.

1183
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: It's fun to be on the phone. That's why it's fascinating. Yeah,

1184
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: it feels like it's like nineteen ninety five and you're

1185
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 1: like eighty Internet. What is Internet? Yeah, there's actually some

1186
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: why I recommend people go and watch. There's all these

1187
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: documentaries from the nineties about how people thought the Internet

1188
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: was going to be, and there was this two parallels.

1189
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: There was like web Internet and then the Information Super

1190
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: Highway about how you would use your TV to like

1191
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: stream devices and they were onto something. But the idea

1192
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: was that the TV would be like hooked up to

1193
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: the dial up and there would anyway. It's really fascinating

1194
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: that's how Bill Gates actually thought that the Internet was

1195
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: going to go. So people should go back and watch,

1196
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 1: you know how as wrong as they were, you could

1197
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: see how you know it was a reasonable idea at

1198
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: the time. All right, let's go move on, doctor Fauci.

1199
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: More lab league stuff happening both on Capitol Hill and

1200
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: in terms of the fallout from that new Energy Department report.

1201
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: The first, most importantly doctor Fauci in retirement, but of

1202
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: course going back to his old home over on CNN,

1203
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: Anderson Cooper, to his credit, actually asked Fauci about the

1204
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 1: Energy Department finding that it almost certainly was a lab leak.

1205
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: I guess with low confidence, but the FBI says it

1206
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: with moderate confidence, and Fauci really tries to wiggle his

1207
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: way out of this one. Let's take a listen. Are

1208
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: the FBI and Energy Department right about the lab leak? Well,

1209
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: it's very tough to tell that, Anderson, because they're talking

1210
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: about information that they have that we don't have privy to,

1211
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: so we don't really know. They have made opinions on

1212
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 1: low confidence from the Department of Energy and moderate confidence

1213
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: I believe from the FBI. So I don't think there's

1214
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: a really correct and verifiable answer to your question. It's

1215
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 1: just still remains unknown. How important is to figure it out? Well,

1216
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: it is, Anderson, because you want to make sure that

1217
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: whichever of those alternatives it is, that we do whatever

1218
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: we can to prevent it from happening in the future,

1219
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: because we have had outbreaks before. I mean, we had

1220
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: saws COVID one, which was clearly shown to go from

1221
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: a bat to a civic cat to a human. And

1222
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: if there's a possibility, which there is certainly we haven't

1223
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: ruled it out of they're being lablik. There are things

1224
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: that you can do to prevent the recurrence of these things.

1225
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: For example, the data showing that it might be a

1226
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: natural occurrence would make you want to be very careful

1227
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: about the animal human interface and make sure that we

1228
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: have strict regulation of bringing animals into wet markets. If

1229
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: it turns out to be a lablik, you want to

1230
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: be very much more stringent in the controls of the

1231
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: experiments that you allow to be done. So it is

1232
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: relevant to understand whether or not we ever will know. Anderson,

1233
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, just a complete weasel and still pushing

1234
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: the natural origin hype. That is what drives me mad.

1235
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: I mean, still the Chinese still are not pushing wet market.

1236
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: He's the last man on earth. Who believes in the West.

1237
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: I mean, here's what we have said for a long time.

1238
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: If there is even a possibility that is either of

1239
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: these things, you should be doing the things that he says,

1240
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 1: putting in the controls, putting in the regulations, because you

1241
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: know it's possible it came from natural love, and you

1242
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: know it's possible it came That's really all you need

1243
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: to know. And so for me, the part of the

1244
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: end where he's like, we just may never know, We

1245
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: won't know because of you, that's the giveaway of like,

1246
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: he doesn't want anyone to do anything until you have

1247
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: one hundred percent proven that it is, you know, definitively

1248
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: smoking gun, that it came out of a lab. And

1249
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: so that's now his dodge because it's now too far

1250
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: down the road where you can't just say no, absolutely,

1251
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: I was in a lab leak, et cetera, et cetera.

1252
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: So now he's got to say, well, we just may

1253
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: never know, and if we do find out, then of

1254
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: course we should do something. But we probably we had

1255
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: one chance at a smoking gun, and it was January

1256
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty when he decided to cover up the

1257
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: lab leak. That was it that's the only chance that

1258
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 1: we ever had, because if he had not used his

1259
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: influence to prompt that investigation and that paper to cover

1260
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 1: up the lab leak, then the US government might have

1261
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,479
Speaker 1: been able to get some of the early intelligence coming

1262
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 1: out of China done the original research. At this point,

1263
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 1: the Chinese have totally muddied the waters. They've covered it up.

1264
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: Now they're going after Elon and anybody else who wants

1265
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 1: to talk about Lab leak and lo and behold, gain

1266
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: of function research is chugging right along here in the

1267
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: United States. We are spending more on gain of function

1268
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: research today as a country, both from private and public sector,

1269
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 1: than we did before the pandemic, and not a single

1270
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 1: new safety mechanism that has been put into place because

1271
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: of the actions of this man. That is why I'm

1272
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: mean watching that it's maddening. And also what really pisses

1273
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: me off too is Anderson and the people who happened

1274
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: to interview him, they such a softball way of like

1275
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: are they right? Are they not ask him about the paper,

1276
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: ask about the email, ask asking why originally at all? Yes,

1277
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: like the original call, you said this. Then May of

1278
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,439
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, you went on National geographic and said there's

1279
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: no chance of a lab leak. Now you're saying it's open.

1280
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: What changed, doctor Fauci. This is what That's what an

1281
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: actual interview with this man would look like. They let

1282
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: him skate completely, and you know, a lot of it

1283
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: is actually really coming to the four because over on

1284
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: the House side, the Republicans have started a new committee

1285
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: and this is the second part here, but this committee

1286
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: to investigate the lab leak and the possible origins of

1287
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen already kicking off with a huge bang because

1288
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 1: they interviewed yesterday doctor Robert Redfield, the former CDC director

1289
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:13,479
Speaker 1: under Donald Trump, who was outrageously smeared under the Trump

1290
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: administration and who has maintained that it was a lab

1291
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: leak from the very beginning. And he outlined to the

1292
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: committee the specific problems with gain of function and exactly

1293
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: how he believes that COVID nineteen was unleashed upon the world.

1294
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to what he said. So one

1295
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: other path of questioning for you, doctor Rifflin. Proponents of

1296
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: this research claimant may result in vaccines or maybe even

1297
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: stop a pandemic. Doctor Redfield has gained function, created any

1298
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: life saving vaccines or therapeutics. To your knowledge not to

1299
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: my knowledge, has Gain of Function stopped a pandemic? In

1300
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: your opinion? Now, in the contrary, I think it probably

1301
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: caused the greatest pandemic or world of scene. Do you

1302
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: find any tangible benefits to Gain of function recent search

1303
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: at this time? I personally don't, but I do want

1304
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 1: to stress I think the men and women that supported

1305
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: are people of good faith because they truly believe it's

1306
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: going to lead to a potential benefit. I disagree with

1307
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: that assessment. Where's that line? Wow? Former CDC director says

1308
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 1: that Gain of Function research at the Wuon Lab caused

1309
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: the greatest pandemic that the world has seen in one

1310
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: hundred years. This is madness, and it is completely ignored

1311
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: outside of either right wing media or people here on

1312
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: the show. You know, I even look back, I forgot

1313
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: how badly that they smeared Redford. They called him an apparatic.

1314
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: Of course, because it was twenty twenty. They decided to

1315
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: call him a racist because apparently black employees at the

1316
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: CEC weren't advancing enough. Because that's what matters most when

1317
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: they're in the middle of a goddamn pandemic, and it's like,

1318
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: when I look back at how they treated this man,

1319
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: and also how his initial response with the Sanjay Gooped

1320
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,439
Speaker 1: interview two years ago. Now at this point he says, yeah,

1321
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: I think it came out of the WU Lab. Same thing, racist,

1322
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: a Trump apparatric. He's a legitimate virologist, epidemiologist and scientist.

1323
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he did a great job during the pandemic,

1324
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: but at the very least he was privy to the

1325
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: intelligence and he has maintained it now from the beginning.

1326
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: And it's like I read the Washington Post and you

1327
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: get these joker virologists who come out of nowhere from

1328
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: some random ass university who happened to be funded by

1329
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: the NIH and they're like, hey, it's still probably on

1330
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: natural origin. He was the CDC director, he was literally there.

1331
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 1: You cannot tell me that he doesn't have more of

1332
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 1: an authority. Where's his op ed in any of these papers?

1333
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: When it comes to gain a function, it seems like

1334
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: there was a pretty basic question here which I literally

1335
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 1: haven't heard anyone asked until this moment, which is what

1336
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 1: are we getting out of this? Right? Has this stopped anything?

1337
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 1: What are we getting Okay, cost benefit, Let's do the analysis.

1338
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: The cost is it potentially caused millions of people to

1339
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: die worldwide and the unleash the worst pandemic you know

1340
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: in the history of modern world, or however he phrased it. Okay,

1341
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: that's the cost. Okay. The benefit apparently nothing nothing, no benefit,

1342
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: nothing provable, nothing clear. What are we doing here? Like,

1343
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 1: it's so basic And even even if you are still

1344
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 1: like on the fence, maybe it was one maybe Okay,

1345
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: I think that's fair, given that you have multiple different assessments,

1346
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 1: different groups that are saying that's that's fair. But clearly

1347
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:39,640
Speaker 1: the risk here is absolutely immense, and based on what

1348
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: he's saying, the benefit is a bunch of scientists whose

1349
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: careers have been made by it. Yeah, that's effectively the benefit. Well,

1350
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 1: and a ton of money. That's really what it is

1351
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,680
Speaker 1: is money. There is billions of dollars flowing out of

1352
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 1: the NIH from the NGOs, the Global Virum Project into

1353
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:00,600
Speaker 1: labs across this country and across the world that is

1354
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 1: funding exactly this type of research, and there's no congressional scrutiny.

1355
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 1: The former CDC director is laughed out of the room.

1356
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 1: People are going to call this a right wing hearing.

1357
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,799
Speaker 1: I mean, look, he's literally the goddamn CDC director. No coverage,

1358
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: you know, where is he on? And have him on

1359
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 1: Anderson Cooper's show. Let him and doctor Fauci appear on

1360
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 1: a joint panel, two former public health officials. They will

1361
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: never do, and of course it would. Yeah, listen, by

1362
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 1: the way, doctor Fauci, You're welcome here on the show anytime.

1363
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll take us up on that invitation. But

1364
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: this is so important, I think for people to understand,

1365
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: and it was a very very important moment from that hearing.

1366
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: And of course I didn't see a single, not one

1367
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:42,799
Speaker 1: scrap of coverage of that from anybody in the mainstream press.

1368
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 1: And that's the most insane part to me. Amazing, all right,

1369
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: Tiger were looking at well. Tucker Carlson has gotten quite

1370
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: a bit of attention recently for his release of previously

1371
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 1: unseen and bizarre January six footage which shows Capitol police

1372
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 1: officers escorting this so called QAnon shaman around. And while

1373
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 1: I believe that is an important story, there might be

1374
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: an even more important one that most are ignoring. His

1375
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 1: new litmus test for candidates in the GOP primary specifically

1376
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: on Ukraine. Let's take a listen to the questionnaire that

1377
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: he is sent to current and prospective candidates. But we've

1378
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: written a questionnaire for Republicans who may decide to jump

1379
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:19,720
Speaker 1: into the race for president in twenty twenty four. It's

1380
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: a very simple questionnaire. Here are the questions. First, is

1381
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 1: opposing Russia in Ukraine a vital American national strategic interest?

1382
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: Is it really important or not? And if so why? Two?

1383
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 1: What specifically is our objective in Ukraine? And how we

1384
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 1: know when we've achieved it? What's our goal? And how

1385
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 1: are we going to know when we've won? If we

1386
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: don't know that, we should slow down? Three? What is

1387
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 1: the limit of funding in material military equipment you would

1388
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: be willing to send to the government of Ukraine. We're

1389
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: sending fighter geest. Should we send nukes? Four? Should the

1390
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: United States support regime change in Russia? Everyone hates Putin?

1391
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 1: Should we kill him? Is that a good idea? What

1392
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 1: happens next? Five? Given that Russia's economy and currency are

1393
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: stronger than they were before the war, do you still

1394
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:57,560
Speaker 1: believe that US sanctions have been effective? Everyone assumes that

1395
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 1: sanctions work. Do they? And finally, do you believe if

1396
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:02,720
Speaker 1: the United States faces the risk of nuclear war with Russia.

1397
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: Really simple, what are the stakes here? So we sent

1398
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 1: these questions to people who have announced or seemed like

1399
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: they might announce, Donald Trump, Nikki Hayley, Vivik Ramaswami, Ron DeSantis,

1400
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: Mike Pompeo, Mike Pence, Tim Scott, Glenn Youngkin, Christian and

1401
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 1: New Christinom, Greg Abbott, Chris Christy, Asa Hutchinson, and John Bolton.

1402
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: We sent these questions with respect. We sincerely want to know.

1403
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 1: We sincerely believe the public has right to know their

1404
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: position on the biggest issue in the world right now,

1405
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:27,680
Speaker 1: which is will there be a third World War? And

1406
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 1: we said we'll give you on Monday to reply. That

1407
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: seemed fair and at that point we'll let you know

1408
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: what they say. Okay, So to review, is opposing Russia

1409
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: and Ukraine to our strategic interest? And why? What is

1410
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 1: our objective in Ukraine? How do we know when we've won?

1411
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: What is the limit of funding and material of what

1412
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: you're willing to send to Ukraine? Should the United States

1413
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,479
Speaker 1: support regime change in Russia? Do you believe that sanctions

1414
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: have been effective against Russia? And do you believe the

1415
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,959
Speaker 1: United States faces the risk of nuclear war with Russia.

1416
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: Reasonable questions. No matter what you think of Tucker and

1417
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 1: important ones, Will we get real answers? Probably not, And

1418
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 1: his questions here are important for two obvious reasons, one

1419
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: being that he's probably the most popular commentator on all

1420
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 1: of Fox and if any, probably holds the most sway

1421
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,640
Speaker 1: with Republican primary voters. Two, every candidate, either in the

1422
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 1: race or who looks like they might jump in, has

1423
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 1: been weasling their way through answers on Ukraine with no specifics. Trump,

1424
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 1: for instance, has claimed for nearly a month that he

1425
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: could bring peace in Ukraine in twenty four hours. But,

1426
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 1: as he said a seapack, he cannot tell us how.

1427
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,799
Speaker 1: He said this also an interview. Take a listen. Before

1428
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: I even arrive at the Oval Office, I will have

1429
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 1: the disastrous war between Russia and Ukraine settled. It will

1430
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 1: be settled quickly. Go I will get the problem solved,

1431
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: and I will get it solved in rapid order, and

1432
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: it will take me no longer than one day. I

1433
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 1: know exactly what to say to each of them. I

1434
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 1: got along with very well with him. It really has

1435
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 1: to be done from the office of the president, and

1436
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 1: you have to get them both in a room, and

1437
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 1: there are things you can say to each one of

1438
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: them which I won't reveal now, which WI we'll guarantee

1439
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 1: that this war will end immediately. So basically it moounts

1440
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 1: to trust me. I'll figure it out, but I can't

1441
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:09,759
Speaker 1: tell you. Given the fact that Trump actually sent Javelin

1442
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 1: missiles to Ukraine and escalated the conflict in Afghanistan after

1443
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: he promised to pull out in twenty seventeen, hired John

1444
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 1: Bolton and Mike Pompeo. At this point, that's well trodden

1445
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 1: ground with all things Trump. Who knows, you'll find out

1446
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: when you find out the thing is Trump at least

1447
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 1: has rhetorically opposed increase aid to Ukraine, He's called for

1448
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,640
Speaker 1: peace in the conflict, and he's generally seemed skeptical of

1449
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 1: the US paying the vast majority of the weapons cost

1450
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: while the Europeans sent a fraction. Sadly, he might be

1451
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 1: the most specific candidate right now on Ukraine, So then

1452
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:39,839
Speaker 1: let's look at the rest of the field. The obvious

1453
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: and really only real contender against Trump is Ron DeSantis,

1454
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 1: who recently made waves on Ukraine after Biden's latest visit

1455
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 1: to Kiev. Let's take a listen to exactly what he said. Well,

1456
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: they have effectively a blank check policy with no clear

1457
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 1: strategic objective identified, and these things can can escalate. And

1458
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: I don't think it's in our interest to be getting

1459
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 1: into proxy war with China, getting involved over things like

1460
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:08,800
Speaker 1: the border lands or over crimea. So I think it

1461
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 1: would behoove them to identify what is the strategic objective

1462
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 1: that they're trying to achieve. But just saying it's an

1463
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 1: open ended blank check that is not acceptable. So main takeaways.

1464
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: Desanta says a quote blank check policy with no strategic

1465
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 1: objective identified, and the US has no interest in getting

1466
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: in a proxy war with Russia by all counts. That

1467
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 1: is America first type rhetoric. But he also has an

1468
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:34,480
Speaker 1: interesting pass on Ukraine, as previous journalists have identified desantas

1469
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 1: wanted to send weapons to Ukraine when he was a congressman,

1470
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 1: saying of Obama, quote, we in Congress have been urging

1471
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: the president. I've been or urging him to provide arms

1472
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: to Ukraine. They want to fight the good fight. They're

1473
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: not asking us to fight it for them. The President

1474
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 1: has steadfastly refused. I think that's a mistake. He also

1475
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: said in December twenty seventeen, he was quote of the

1476
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: Reagan school that's tough on Russia while in a Fox

1477
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: and Friends interview, and he said Russia is a third

1478
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,240
Speaker 1: rate military power. Though now now here's the thing. People

1479
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: can change their minds. That's completely fine, But Desanta's has

1480
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: also been all over the place on Ukraine. Even recently.

1481
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: In a recent interview with the Times of London, DeSantis

1482
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,639
Speaker 1: lost his cool when he was pressed on the actual

1483
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 1: difference is that he would have from Joe Biden on

1484
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: his policy in Ukraine. The interviewer writes, quote, I ask

1485
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:18,799
Speaker 1: about Ukraine. He says that there's a critique of Biden.

1486
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 1: I think I'm sympathetic to it in the sense that

1487
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 1: it's in our policy just to do whatever Zelenski wants,

1488
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 1: or do we have a concrete idea of what we're

1489
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 1: trying to achieve exactly? He adds quote when I ask

1490
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:31,040
Speaker 1: him how it should be handled. Differently, he refers to

1491
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 1: Biden quote being weak on the world stage and failing

1492
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:36,600
Speaker 1: at deterrence. But as that is not answering how it

1493
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 1: should be handled, I ask again, he does not have

1494
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 1: anything to add perhaps you should cover some other ground.

1495
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 1: I think I've said enough, so no specifics. Apparently very

1496
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 1: testy at being pressed. I guess fair enough. You're only

1497
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: a governor, you're not even an official candidate. But things

1498
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 1: need to get specific fast. On the other ones, it's

1499
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 1: not too hard. Nikki Haley and Pike Bompeo, they have

1500
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 1: been trying to have their cake and eat it too. Haley,

1501
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,160
Speaker 1: of course, refuses to criticized Trump. She's not kicking sideway,

1502
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 1: She's only kicking forward. Probably the dumbest lines I've ever heard.

1503
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: But on Ukraine, her stance is actually pretty unambiguous. She

1504
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 1: has criticized Biden for not being tough enough on Russia,

1505
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 1: not expanding Russian sanctions, and in a most recent interview

1506
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 1: told Barry Weiss from The Free Press quote, I think

1507
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: it's up to us to tell people standing with Ukraine

1508
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: is standing for America. Pompeo, also, who despite serving as

1509
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: Trump's Secretary of State, has decided he somehow can differentiate

1510
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: himself from him, has also been dropping veiled hints at

1511
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:34,080
Speaker 1: his differences from Trump on Ukraine. Two days ago, he

1512
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 1: tweeted quote, Vladimir Putin should not be underestimated he wants

1513
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 1: to do the American people harm, which is why helping

1514
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 1: Ukraine is in our interest. He failed to mention anything

1515
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 1: about Ukraine at Seapack, as did Haley, but also has

1516
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: only been criticizing Biden first not sending enough aid to

1517
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: the country. All of this is interesting and how it

1518
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 1: maps onto the primary and to some extent, whether Tucker

1519
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 1: Carlson view will prevail in the primary or the GOP

1520
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: establishment view. Almost all polling data that we have available

1521
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 1: to us tells us the Republican primary electorate in particular

1522
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 1: is turning fast against aid for Ukraine, with independence joining them.

1523
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 1: Only Democrats remain steadfast. But as we have learned through

1524
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,680
Speaker 1: the Trump years, rhetoric does not mean anything. Being specific

1525
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 1: and locking people into answers is what matters, and then

1526
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 1: whether they actually do any of that, which matters even more.

1527
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 1: For now, we're in wait and see mode. So I

1528
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:24,639
Speaker 1: don't think anybody's going to actually answer this question here.

1529
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,600
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear my reaction to Sager's monologue,

1530
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com. Crystal,

1531
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 1: what are you taking a look at? Well? Once upon

1532
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:38,839
Speaker 1: a time, America was a land where it generally seemed

1533
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,719
Speaker 1: like a rising tide could lift all boats. When American

1534
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 1: corporations thrive, they were able to invest in their workforce,

1535
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,400
Speaker 1: creating a stable middle class, and they were able to

1536
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 1: invest in innovation, which created dynamism and more, thriving in

1537
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,600
Speaker 1: a virtuous circle. In that time, business leaders and politicians

1538
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: they had healthy debates about exactly who corporations were meant

1539
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 1: to serve the nation, the community, their shareholders, their workers,

1540
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 1: But pretty much no one took the view so that

1541
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: they should be run by the executive class for the

1542
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:06,839
Speaker 1: sole benefit of the executive class. Today, however, this perverse

1543
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: conception of corporations is destroying the health and vitality of

1544
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,640
Speaker 1: our entire economy, creating bubbles based on fakery, robbing employees

1545
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 1: of fair compensation for their labor. In fact, new numbers

1546
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 1: underscore just how extreme and radical this modern form of

1547
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 1: corporation has actually become. Take a look at this as

1548
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: from rolth Nader. He says stunning figure. The White House's

1549
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: National Economic Council reports that major corporations are spending about

1550
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 1: ninety percent of their earnings on stock buybacks and dividends.

1551
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 1: Ninety percent what's left for investment, not much unless these

1552
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 1: corporations are taking on debt, he says. Now, stock buybacks

1553
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: are exactly what they sound like. It's when a corporation

1554
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: buys back their own stock, it has the predictable impact

1555
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:51,720
Speaker 1: of at least temporarily goosing that company's stock price. So,

1556
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 1: rather than investing in innovation or expansion or their workforce,

1557
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 1: our largest companies are all funneling almost all of their

1558
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 1: cash right now into the pockets of wealthy shareholders and critically,

1559
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 1: their own executives, who derive most of their compensation from

1560
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:10,240
Speaker 1: their stockholdings. It is a blatant CEO money grap Now.

1561
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: I know the discussion on stock buybacks it can sound

1562
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 1: kind of wonky, but it is hard to overstate just

1563
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 1: what a damaging effect their near takeover of the marketplace

1564
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 1: has had on our entire nation. First of all, this

1565
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:24,559
Speaker 1: stock buybacks make the stock market completely fake. In fact,

1566
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 1: they were deemed illegal market manipulation repeatedly in nineteen sixty seven,

1567
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy and again in nineteen seventy three. It

1568
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 1: wasn't until the market radicals grab power under the Reagan

1569
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 1: administration that they were even allowed and legalized over the

1570
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:41,639
Speaker 1: past nine years, stock buybacks have come to completely dominate

1571
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 1: public markets. Corporations plowed and eye popping three point eight

1572
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 1: trillion dollars into buying their own stocks. That was more

1573
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 1: than any other type of investor combine. Think about that.

1574
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: The stock market it's supposed to theoretically reflect some underlying value.

1575
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: Instead it increasingly reflects just how much financial rigging corporations

1576
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:06,440
Speaker 1: are willing to do. Second, stock buybacks reward financial engineering

1577
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: over actual productivity and innovation. Trump's massive corporate tax be

1578
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 1: guess they were theoretically supposed to unleash corporate research and

1579
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: productivity enhancements, expansions, jobs, employee pay raises, etc. Instead they

1580
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: unleashed a flood of stock buybacks. In fact, in twenty eighteen,

1581
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,720
Speaker 1: after the massive giveaway went into effect, only forty three

1582
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 1: percent of S and P five hundred companies recorded any

1583
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,639
Speaker 1: research and development expenses at all. The majority of companies

1584
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 1: spent not a single penny on new innovation, and you

1585
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 1: can see why it's a sick incentive structure. Why take

1586
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 1: a risk on building something new when you can just

1587
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 1: reward yourself and service the stockholders by artificially goosing your

1588
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 1: own stock price and a compelling example of exactly this,

1589
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 1: journalist Ronafarujar chronicles how Apple stock performed far better in

1590
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 1: years that stock buybacks were done than in the year

1591
01:20:56,320 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: that they revolutionized music with the release of the Apple iPod.

1592
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 1: So if short term shareholder profits are all that matter,

1593
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: Apple is duty bound to engage in market manipulation, not

1594
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: to invent new products. Third, stock buybacks and rich executives

1595
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 1: and wealthy shareholders had the expensive workers fueling world historic inequality,

1596
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:18,679
Speaker 1: and the legalization of stock buybacks. Combined with other ruggan

1597
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 1: eero radical reforms, things like crushing union, slashing taxes on

1598
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,120
Speaker 1: the rich, and no holds barred free trade, they have

1599
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 1: combined to create a second, more extreme Gilded Age. If

1600
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:29,599
Speaker 1: you want to know why it feels like our whole

1601
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 1: society is coming unglued right now, this is a great

1602
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 1: place to start the hunt for both the causes and

1603
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 1: the culprits. Our national understanding of corporations has actually gone

1604
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 1: through a few different evolutions over the course of our

1605
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:42,640
Speaker 1: nation's history. In the early days of our Republic, the

1606
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 1: founding fathers had quite a complex relationship with corporations. Now,

1607
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,680
Speaker 1: on the one hand, the early American project was effectively

1608
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,720
Speaker 1: based on for profit corporations like the Virginia Company. Some

1609
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:54,639
Speaker 1: of our early experiments in democracy and agitation for revolution.

1610
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: They were actually inspired by rights of representation that were

1611
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: granted not by a constitution, but by corporate charters those

1612
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,679
Speaker 1: governed the colonies. On the other the founders were, of course,

1613
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 1: deeply skeptical of concentrations of power. In his book We

1614
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:11,320
Speaker 1: the Corporations, How American Businesses Won their Civil Rights, Adam

1615
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 1: Winkler writes about Sir William Blackstone of England, one of

1616
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 1: the most influential thinkers in corporations, whose writing on corporations

1617
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 1: is still cited regularly by our own Supreme Court. Blackstone

1618
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: explained that the enemies must serve a dual public and

1619
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 1: private purpose. They were not, as conceived of now, simply

1620
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 1: for profit entities meant to enrich their owners. Instead, they

1621
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 1: must be quote for the advantage of the public, or

1622
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: else their charter would be completely denied. Now our founders too,

1623
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 1: believed that corporations must serve some public interest. According to

1624
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:43,439
Speaker 1: the Atlantic, many early stock certificates bore an image a

1625
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 1: factory a car canal, representing the purpose of the corporation

1626
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:49,360
Speaker 1: that issued them. It was a reminder that the financial

1627
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:52,680
Speaker 1: instrument was being put to productive use. Early corporations were

1628
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: chartered for a specific tasks. They building a canal. They

1629
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:58,559
Speaker 1: had charters of limited duration, lasting either ten or forty years,

1630
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 1: and they were frequently terminated upon the completion of that

1631
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:04,519
Speaker 1: specific task that they were chartered for. Now, after the

1632
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: Civil War, corporate advocates they used the courts to claim

1633
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 1: greater and greater power for themselves. In fact, in a

1634
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 1: disgusting turn of events, at the same time that the

1635
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: rights of black people under the Fourteenth Amendment being stripped

1636
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 1: away and the Jim Crow regime architected, corporations were using

1637
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,719
Speaker 1: the Fourteenth Amendment to great effect, grabbing for themselves new

1638
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 1: and unprecedented rights. Again for Adam Lan Winkler quote between

1639
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight, when the Amendment was ratified. In nineteen twelve,

1640
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,679
Speaker 1: when a scholar sent out to identify every Fourteenth Amendment

1641
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 1: case heard by the Supreme Court, the justices decided twenty

1642
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 1: eight cases dealing with the rights of African Americans and

1643
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:42,519
Speaker 1: in astonishing three hundred and twelve cases dealing with the

1644
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: rights of corporations. Now, this brave new world of corporate

1645
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 1: rights led to the first Gilded Age and Robber Baron era,

1646
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,799
Speaker 1: which allowed wealth inequality to skyrocket to previously unimaginable heights

1647
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:55,639
Speaker 1: before being checked by the fallout of the Great Depression

1648
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:59,120
Speaker 1: and FDR's New Deal era. The Reagan era would see

1649
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: corporate rule on s steroids, as he and all the

1650
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 1: administrations after him embraced new radical views on the role

1651
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 1: of corporations, now seen as exclusively meant to increase short

1652
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 1: term shareholder value. Was under this new extreme philosophy that

1653
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 1: buybacks would be legalized and come to mistasticize into the

1654
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:18,120
Speaker 1: economy eating menace that they are today. And in Washington,

1655
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 1: in spite of these shocking figures cited here by Ralph Nader,

1656
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 1: there seems to be little interest in change, in a

1657
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 1: sign of how timid and unequal to the task our

1658
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 1: current political leadership is. Rather than take the obvious step

1659
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 1: of just banning stock buybacks altogether, President Biden passed a

1660
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 1: measly one percent tax on stock buybacks. It's had precisely

1661
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:39,599
Speaker 1: the impact you would expect, which is absolutely nothing at all.

1662
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:42,759
Speaker 1: He's now saying that companies which seek chips ACKed subsidies

1663
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 1: must forego stock buybacks for a period of five years,

1664
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 1: the limited reform impacting a small number of companies, and

1665
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:51,120
Speaker 1: in his boldest stance, Bind's new budget calls for a

1666
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:54,640
Speaker 1: still pitdling four percent tax on stock buybacks, which is

1667
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 1: also unlikely to do really much of anything at all.

1668
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 1: Buybacks should be banned period end of According to Adam

1669
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 1: Winkler at the founding of the Republic, Thomas Jefferson warrant

1670
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 1: of quote the aristocracy of our money and corporations, which

1671
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 1: dare already to challenge our government to a trial of

1672
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:12,799
Speaker 1: strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

1673
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 1: Our government is no longer challenged by moneyed corporations today.

1674
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: On the contrary, they're quite comfortable with rule by corporate power.

1675
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 1: That ninety percent number stunned me. And if you want

1676
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:26,759
Speaker 1: to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium

1677
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:33,240
Speaker 1: subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com. So we have been

1678
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:37,120
Speaker 1: tracking mass protests that have swept across the nation of

1679
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:40,840
Speaker 1: Israel in response to current Prime Minister Netanyahu's attacks on

1680
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 1: the independent judiciary there. It's a fairly complex situation, so

1681
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 1: we wanted to get in an expert who has been

1682
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:48,719
Speaker 1: following this closely to break down exactly what is happening.

1683
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,240
Speaker 1: So we're happy to welcome back to the show, Ken Roth.

1684
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 1: He is the former executive director of Human Rights Watch.

1685
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 1: Great to see you, Ken, good diseaser, good to be back,

1686
01:25:56,920 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 1: thank you. So just to set up a little bit

1687
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 1: of the context here, let's go and put this element

1688
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 1: up on the screen to give you a sense of

1689
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:07,240
Speaker 1: how widespread these protests have become axios. Reporting that they

1690
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:11,560
Speaker 1: have actually spread to the Israeli military, which is in

1691
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:14,519
Speaker 1: Maya is quite extraordinary. So can you just start with

1692
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: the basics here, Ken, of what Netanyahoo is trying to

1693
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 1: do and why there has been such resistance to it. Okay, well, Christal,

1694
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 1: maybe a good place to begin is to explain, you know,

1695
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:27,960
Speaker 1: this may be too basic, but you know, why do

1696
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 1: you care about an independent judiciary? And you know, I

1697
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:34,720
Speaker 1: think it's there's a temptation in a democracy to think, oh,

1698
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 1: democracy means elections, Democracy means majority rule, and obviously that's

1699
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 1: an essential element of democracy, but that's not sufficient. Democracy

1700
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:48,799
Speaker 1: also means that the majority is limited by your rights.

1701
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: You know, the government can't do anything, They can't censor you,

1702
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 1: they can't throw you in prison. There's certain things they

1703
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 1: can't do, and we depend on an independent judiciary to

1704
01:26:57,120 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 1: uphold those rights. We also depend on an and in

1705
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: judiciary to make sure that government officials are subject to

1706
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:06,760
Speaker 1: the law. That means the rule of law. So you

1707
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: can't have you know, a president or prime minister steal

1708
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:13,759
Speaker 1: or you know, can meet crimes. They too are subject

1709
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:16,720
Speaker 1: to the law. So these are essential elements of democracy,

1710
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:20,800
Speaker 1: and that's why people are so exercised about what n'tagna

1711
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:24,920
Speaker 1: who is now trying to do. He you know, he

1712
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 1: leads a very far right coalition, including you know, people

1713
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 1: who were considered you know, just beyond the pale a

1714
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:37,599
Speaker 1: few months ago, and now our ministers. So this is

1715
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:43,240
Speaker 1: an extreme government. Natagnaho was desperate to put it together

1716
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 1: because he himself is trying to avoid corruption charges and

1717
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:48,519
Speaker 1: he thought the best way to do that would be

1718
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:51,519
Speaker 1: to become prime minister. Again, that meant he had to

1719
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:53,800
Speaker 1: have a majority in the Knesset, and he now has

1720
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 1: a majority of sixty four seats in the one hundred

1721
01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: and twenty member Knesset. So that's the badrop. Now he

1722
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 1: is proposing in this bill to take two important steps

1723
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:12,560
Speaker 1: that would undermine the ability of the judiciary to ensure

1724
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 1: that the government respects rights and abides by the rule

1725
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: of law. One is that he's proposing that the Kannesse,

1726
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 1: the parliament in Israel, could simply overturn any court rule

1727
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 1: by a simple one vote majority. And so you can

1728
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:35,679
Speaker 1: imagine court saying, no, you can't pass this law because

1729
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 1: that would be undermining freedom of expression, or you can't

1730
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:41,800
Speaker 1: pass that law because that would be discrimination, and the

1731
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 1: canessset would say tough, We're just going to vote, you know,

1732
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:47,760
Speaker 1: it could be sixty one to fifty nine, and we're

1733
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:52,600
Speaker 1: going to overturn your ruling. So that is basically destroying

1734
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:56,320
Speaker 1: the concept of judicial review. It's saying that the Supreme

1735
01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 1: Court does not have the power to enforce rights or

1736
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:02,760
Speaker 1: to uphold the rule of law. And then on top

1737
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,759
Speaker 1: of that, Natanya who is trying to change the way

1738
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 1: that judges are selected for the Screme Court. Currently there's

1739
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 1: a committee of nine that proposes appointments, and five of

1740
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:21,080
Speaker 1: those nine people are not members of the government, so

1741
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 1: there's a good degree of independence here. They're either a

1742
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 1: judges or members of our associations. And this is a

1743
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 1: way to again ensure that the government just doesn't stack

1744
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:31,599
Speaker 1: the court with people who are going to then vote

1745
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: in favor of the government. Nowtayah who wants to change that.

1746
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 1: He wants to have his appointees make up a majority

1747
01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:43,280
Speaker 1: of this appointing committee so that he can gradually change

1748
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:45,880
Speaker 1: the composition of the court to one that would be

1749
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 1: more attuned to what he's trying to do. Yep, so Ken,

1750
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 1: how does this map onto US relations I understand that

1751
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 1: it has disrupted the visit of Secretary of Austin. How

1752
01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:00,720
Speaker 1: is the Biden administration reacting to this and how is

1753
01:30:00,760 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 1: this going to change the foreign political situation vis a

1754
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 1: the our relationships in the world's relationship with Israel. Well,

1755
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:11,719
Speaker 1: what everybody is worried about is that, you know, if

1756
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 1: in fact, you have this far right Natanyahu government, unfettered

1757
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:21,519
Speaker 1: by the rule of law, unscrutinized by an independent Supreme Court,

1758
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:24,720
Speaker 1: it could do whatever it wants. And so, you know,

1759
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 1: the things that people are worried about within Israel proper,

1760
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:34,639
Speaker 1: They're worried that, you know, an increasingly religious religious government

1761
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 1: is going to start imposing its views on what still

1762
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:43,799
Speaker 1: is you know, a significantly secular Jewish population in Israel,

1763
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 1: People who don't want to abide by the you know,

1764
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 1: the strict requirements of ultra Orthodoxy, and they're worried that

1765
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:53,400
Speaker 1: this somehow might be imposed. And so you can imagine

1766
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 1: what this would be, you know, say for same sex marriage,

1767
01:30:56,320 --> 01:31:00,040
Speaker 1: where the Court currently has been very positive on that.

1768
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,640
Speaker 1: It has said, for example, there was a law on

1769
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: surrogacy and they it was originally passed so only single

1770
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:09,840
Speaker 1: women could be surrogates, and they said, you know, no,

1771
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:12,320
Speaker 1: it could be it could be a single man who

1772
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:14,320
Speaker 1: wants to bring in a who wants to have a child.

1773
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:16,080
Speaker 1: It could be the same sex couple. You know, this

1774
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:18,600
Speaker 1: is an example of how the Court is upholding you know,

1775
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:20,759
Speaker 1: kind of basic rights, and they've been very good about

1776
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 1: upholding freedom of expression, freedom of the media. Suddenly that

1777
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:26,600
Speaker 1: could all be out the window. You would have, you know,

1778
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 1: a government that could censor the media, that could start,

1779
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 1: you know, undercutting basic rights for Israelis. Now, the big

1780
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:38,240
Speaker 1: fear is what happens in the occupied territories, right and

1781
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 1: you know, we've already seen elements of this extreme government.

1782
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:49,200
Speaker 1: They have declared nine illegal outposts suddenly legal. These are

1783
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 1: you know, settlements that are not even authorized by the

1784
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:55,599
Speaker 1: Israeli government. It's worth noting that settlements themselves are illegal.

1785
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,840
Speaker 1: They violate what is known as Article forty nine of

1786
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:03,599
Speaker 1: the Fourth Shiva conn which prohibits an occupying power from

1787
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:07,680
Speaker 1: transferring its population to occupied territory. So the settlements are

1788
01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:11,040
Speaker 1: clearly illegal. That basically are war crimes. The government is

1789
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:13,920
Speaker 1: going ahead and legalizing, you know, declaring that it approves

1790
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:19,760
Speaker 1: of morales. Now, even the existing Supreme Court has not

1791
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:22,280
Speaker 1: been willing to sort of address the issue. It's trying

1792
01:32:22,280 --> 01:32:24,880
Speaker 1: to duct the issue, so it's never declared, you know,

1793
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 1: whether they're legal or illegal because you know, frankly, to

1794
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:28,840
Speaker 1: do that, it would have to declare them illegal if

1795
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,480
Speaker 1: it was at all honest, So it just ducks the issue.

1796
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:33,960
Speaker 1: But the fear is that Natanyahu now could try to

1797
01:32:34,439 --> 01:32:37,880
Speaker 1: annex broad parts of the West Bank. It could you know,

1798
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:43,360
Speaker 1: just kind of expand Israel's boundaries into the occupied territory,

1799
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 1: and that there'd be no court to stop that. So

1800
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:48,320
Speaker 1: these are the kinds of things that would have, you know,

1801
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 1: a dramatic impact on Israel's standing in the world and

1802
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:55,960
Speaker 1: certainly on US Israeli relations where you know, the United

1803
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 1: States in fact, just recently Anthony Blincoln and Secretary of State,

1804
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, tried to gociate a six month pause in

1805
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:06,959
Speaker 1: these kinds of actions, and within days Natanyahu had flouted

1806
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:09,840
Speaker 1: it by preceding that this plan with respect to these

1807
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,080
Speaker 1: nine out posts. So you know, this is a government

1808
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 1: that needs to be scrutinized. You need an independence screen court.

1809
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:19,439
Speaker 1: And if that is gone, who knows where it's going

1810
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:22,599
Speaker 1: to go. We're already seeing you know that American Jews

1811
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:26,200
Speaker 1: are increasingly unhappy with this government, and I anticipate that

1812
01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 1: the US government as a whole is going to be

1813
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:31,800
Speaker 1: increasingly unhappy if it continues in this direction. Well, and

1814
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:35,600
Speaker 1: there has also been fallout in the US Israel relationship

1815
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 1: over comments that were made by the Israeli finance minister.

1816
01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:42,320
Speaker 1: He called up for a Palestinian village in the West

1817
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: Bank to be quote wiped out. Can you talk to

1818
01:33:46,200 --> 01:33:49,799
Speaker 1: tell explain that situation and explain what the US response

1819
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:53,400
Speaker 1: has been and what you think that it should be. Yes,

1820
01:33:53,520 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 1: the finance minister is a man by the name of

1821
01:33:56,680 --> 01:34:01,240
Speaker 1: bezal Lal Smote Ridge, and he was talking about the

1822
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:07,640
Speaker 1: Palestinian village of Huara, and this was the site initially

1823
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 1: of a place where Palestinian gunmen murdered to Israeli brothers

1824
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:17,760
Speaker 1: from a nearby settlement who were driving through this Palestinian town.

1825
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 1: In revenge, settlers rampaged through this town of Huara, you know,

1826
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 1: set buildings on fire, destroyed large parts of the town.

1827
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 1: And the Finance minister, when asked about this, you know,

1828
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 1: rather than condemning the violence, saying, you know, yes, the

1829
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: initial killings were wrong, but so is this rampage by settlers,

1830
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 1: which I should say, this rampage happened, you know, under

1831
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 1: the watchful eyes of the Israelian military, which did nothing

1832
01:34:46,479 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 1: to stop the settlers. But the finance minister, rather than

1833
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:52,960
Speaker 1: say this is horrible, we don't take law into our

1834
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:56,120
Speaker 1: own hands, he said they should have wiped out the village.

1835
01:34:57,520 --> 01:35:02,599
Speaker 1: So you know, this is a minister advocating lawlesses. Now,

1836
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 1: you know, under pressure Natagnan, who is kind of you know,

1837
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:09,519
Speaker 1: repudiated that a little bit. But this, this finance minister

1838
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:12,040
Speaker 1: is supposed to be coming to the United States to

1839
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:15,120
Speaker 1: sell Israeli bonds. And it's not clear at this point

1840
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 1: whether the US government is going to give him visa,

1841
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: whether he's going to be allowed to come. He's already's

1842
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 1: already clear that he's not going to get any official meetings.

1843
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:25,600
Speaker 1: But this is the kind of extremism that now populates

1844
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,080
Speaker 1: the senior positions of the Natenna government, and it highlights

1845
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:32,960
Speaker 1: all the more why we need an independent Israeli Supreme

1846
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,719
Speaker 1: Court if these people are just not going to run rampant.

1847
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:38,360
Speaker 1: You know, another person who is like this is a

1848
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: guy by the name of Gitamar ben Gevier, who leads

1849
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 1: what's known as the Jewish Power Party. This is a

1850
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:48,799
Speaker 1: member of N'atagnana, who's coalition and it's part of the government,

1851
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:54,200
Speaker 1: and he's already been convicted, criminally convicted of supporting a

1852
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:58,080
Speaker 1: terrorist group and of racist incitement. And that he's in

1853
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:00,280
Speaker 1: the government, he's got a seat in the Knesset, part

1854
01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 1: in Netaannaho's majority. So this is what we're dealing with

1855
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 1: it and you know what this is. You know, frankly,

1856
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:08,839
Speaker 1: many people think this is really about behind the scenes,

1857
01:36:09,360 --> 01:36:13,160
Speaker 1: is Netagnaho trying to avoid prison because, as I mentioned,

1858
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:18,640
Speaker 1: net Taya, who is facing criminal charges for corruption the

1859
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:23,080
Speaker 1: cases proceeding, and one thing that people fear if he

1860
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,799
Speaker 1: pushes through this, you know, this undermining of the Supreme

1861
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:30,040
Speaker 1: Court's independence, is that he could then get his majority

1862
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 1: in the Knissese to pass a law saying, for example,

1863
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:36,719
Speaker 1: you can't convict a sitting prime minister, or a sitting

1864
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:39,320
Speaker 1: prime minister can't be removed momus or something like that.

1865
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:43,000
Speaker 1: The existing Supreme Court would probably say no way that,

1866
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:46,719
Speaker 1: you know, that's wrong, and might overturn it. But if

1867
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court has been eviscerated, if the Canessic can

1868
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:54,000
Speaker 1: just overturn the Supreme Court's ruling by one vote, none

1869
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:56,639
Speaker 1: of this means anything Netagna, who then has his get

1870
01:36:56,640 --> 01:37:02,559
Speaker 1: out of jail card forever. This lastly, just to to

1871
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 1: sort of circle back to where we started this, where

1872
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 1: we're talking about how these protests have even rocked the

1873
01:37:08,120 --> 01:37:12,160
Speaker 1: Israeli military, which is quite extraordinary. You know, how widespread

1874
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 1: is your sense that these protests actually are. You know,

1875
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 1: where is the population of Israel with regards to what

1876
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 1: Netna who is trying to do with regards to judiciary

1877
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:24,040
Speaker 1: and does he care I mean that will that pressure

1878
01:37:24,200 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 1: caused him to change course? Well, there have been huge demonstrations,

1879
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of thousands of people, which in a

1880
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,519
Speaker 1: small country like Israel, like I saw a calculation that

1881
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 1: said that would be as if you know, eight million

1882
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:38,880
Speaker 1: people took to the streets of that states. So these

1883
01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 1: are really big strations. Now does Natagna who care? You know,

1884
01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:51,160
Speaker 1: if if somehow these demonstrations, you know, forced a member

1885
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:54,799
Speaker 1: of his coalition to step down and he suddenly lost power,

1886
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:57,800
Speaker 1: yes he would care about that. But this is a

1887
01:37:57,880 --> 01:38:00,800
Speaker 1: really far right coalition. You know, they to determine to

1888
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:04,080
Speaker 1: go ahead, and it's not clear you know what domestically

1889
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 1: can stops. You know, that's where pressure from the United

1890
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:09,719
Speaker 1: States matters so much. And you know, the US government

1891
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:13,240
Speaker 1: has a terrible record of criticizing Israel. I mean, just recently,

1892
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:17,479
Speaker 1: the UN Security Council was considering a resolution condemning the

1893
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:21,200
Speaker 1: legal settlements, and the US State Department negotiated so that

1894
01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:23,679
Speaker 1: it could be turned into a mere presidential statement, which

1895
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 1: is non binding, because they just always try to soften

1896
01:38:27,320 --> 01:38:29,479
Speaker 1: criticism of Israel and didn't want to have to, you know,

1897
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:33,280
Speaker 1: veto the embarrassment of vetoing a resolution of the Security Council. So,

1898
01:38:33,439 --> 01:38:36,280
Speaker 1: I mean, the Biden administration has been horrible about criticizing Israel.

1899
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:40,040
Speaker 1: Now they're becoming a bit more outspoken about this effort

1900
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:42,880
Speaker 1: to undermine the judiciary. But this is you know, really

1901
01:38:42,920 --> 01:38:44,760
Speaker 1: just the tip of the iceberg, because you know, of

1902
01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:49,440
Speaker 1: course what goes on day today is very severe repression

1903
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:52,240
Speaker 1: in the West Bank, East Drool, Slim and Gaza, and

1904
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:55,680
Speaker 1: that barely gets mentioned from the Biden administration. Yeah. I

1905
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:58,240
Speaker 1: think that's all really well said. Thank you so much

1906
01:38:58,280 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 1: for taking some time to lay all of this out

1907
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:02,880
Speaker 1: for us, because it's extraordinarily important. Thank you so much, Ken,

1908
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:07,920
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. That's a pleasure man, really good segment,

1909
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:10,840
Speaker 1: so in depth. You're not going to see that anywhere else,

1910
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 1: so really appreciate it very thorough man. Thank you guys

1911
01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:15,439
Speaker 1: so much for watching. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the

1912
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:17,880
Speaker 1: full show on Spotify. As we announce for all of

1913
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:21,440
Speaker 1: our premium members, we enjoy your support and look. Counterpoints

1914
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:24,799
Speaker 1: did fantastic yesterday. Thank you guys for listening for watching.

1915
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:27,200
Speaker 1: The show has been doing phenomenally well recently, so we

1916
01:39:27,479 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 1: appreciate you all so much. And all of the new

1917
01:39:29,240 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 1: people who are coming in we love you too. So

1918
01:39:31,160 --> 01:39:32,640
Speaker 1: there you go. We'll see you next week. See you

1919
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 1: guys next week.