WEBVTT - TV’s new math: Amblin Moves into Documentary and Unscripted Content 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:12.400 Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.160 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.000 Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:24.080 guests are Darryl Frank and Justin Falvey, head of Amlin Television. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.480 Darryl and Justin are rare birds. Indeed, they've been running 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.960 Steven Spielberg's TV company for nearly thirty years. They've set 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.279 the standard for a busy boutique with great shows like 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:41.559 The Americans, Under the Dome Bowl, Falling Skies, Rescue Me, 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.080 and Going All the Way Back to Spin City. Now, 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:48.839 the company has moved into documentary and unscripted production in 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.800 a big way. In October, they sent a nature documentary 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.080 to the top of the Netflix charts with the launch 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.320 of the Life on Our Planet series. Upcoming projects include 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.760 Big Vape, The Rise and Fall of Jewel, and other 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:08.720 documentary features and series that probe very interesting and distinct 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.319 new worlds. As we will hear in our conversation, Daryl 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:16.000 and Justin also lay out exactly why the company moved 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:20.000 into premium unscripted, and it's very similar to the changes 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.800 that affected writers to such a degree that they went 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.880 on strike for nearly five months this year. It's all 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.839 about piecing together a portfolio of shows at a time 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.160 when the world of twenty two episode seasons are no 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:37.640 longer the norm. Darryl and Justin have the confidence to 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.240 be candid about where they see the business heading, where 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.120 some of the problem areas are, and hopefully where some 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:45.240 of the solutions are. 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:46.720 Coming in twenty twenty four. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:58.640 That's all coming up after this break, and we're back 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.480 with an interview with one television heads, Darryl Frank and 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:07.240 Justin Falvey. Darryl Frank and Justin Falvey, thank you so 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.840 much for joining me today when we were talking about, 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.040 you know, what's new and interesting at Amblin Partners. Of course, 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.880 I know the unscripted has been a real priority for 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.400 you for a while. To break into that in a 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.520 big way. You certainly have with Life on Our Planet, 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.280 which you know, Rock literally rocketed to the top of 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:31.120 Netflix in its first week in review, first week in release, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.160 which is a pretty impressive thing for a natural history documentary. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:35.320 But let's step back. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.799 A little bit from the specific titles, and first i'd 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.800 love to hear from both of you why was it important? 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.919 What motivated you to get to Amblin to bring Amblin 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.519 Television into the business of high end, very well produced 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:53.560 documentary and unscripted content as a compliment to your very 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:58.080 you know, long and robust business that you have on 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:02.000 the scripted scripted contents. What what drove you into the 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.480 what what motivated you to get into the unscripted and 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:07.480 documentary arena? 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.560 Well, well thanks for having us. First of all, it 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.720 really was twofold one was we have a real passion 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.360 for documentaries. Is this is sort of what we both 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.520 watch on sort of weekends. You know, having been in 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:22.720 the scripted world for so long, it's sort of a 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.840 lot easier to go home and relax watching a doc 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.240 than it is watching a scripted show when you're looking 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.000 at every who directed this, who wrote it, who was 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.480 the production signer, who was the cinematographer. It's it's easier 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.200 to sort of tune out a little bit on those. 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.120 But you know, the you know what a lot of 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.440 the platforms have done over the last few years in 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.880 documentary has just been incredible, and so it started with 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:49.400 the passion, but it also was a real important business 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:54.600 move for us. You know, as episodes episodic orders got shorter. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:56.440 You know, we justin and I have been around for 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.560 a long time and been doing this, uh you know, 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:03.080 uh since the deficit financing days, and you know, when 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.160 we would do twenty four episodes of a scripted show 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.600 for network, and it went from twenty four episodes of 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.400 a scripted show for network to thirteen episodes for Basic Cable, 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.160 to ten episodes at streaming, and then nine episodes, and 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.839 then eight episodes, and now certain people are doing six 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:23.280 episodes and with back ends disappearing completely given that there's 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.440 no syndication market and the sort of back end buyouts. 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:31.200 It really sort of we looked at our business and 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.640 we said, wow, we're really turning into a business where 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.720 episodic fees are really driving everything. And when we used 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.400 to do twenty four episodes and now we're doing eight, 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.960 we have to do three times as many scripted shows 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.680 to make the same amount of money. So for us, 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.440 it was twofold one creative. We feel like there's you know, 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.159 it's a great expansion of our business and we love 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.359 telling these stories. To us, they are just nonscripted dramas. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:58.960 That's how we look at them. We don't really do 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.400 reality game, but we really do you know, premium documentary 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:09.320 narrative stories. But it really sort of came from, you know, 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:13.919 both the creative but then also the business aspect of 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:15.960 like where do we make up the revenue if we're 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.599 if we're doing eight episodes on scripted series. 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:20.799 It's a math. 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.880 Yeah, just I. 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.200 Have one job as moderator when I have two guests, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.080 and that's to identify the guests. That who was just 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.600 speaking was Darryl Frank. Forgive me, I'm going to say this. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.039 I'm going to really sound ancient, but Darryl, you look 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:36.440 more and more like your dad. 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:36.960 All the time. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:42.800 Thank you, Rich as one of the very very senior 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:45.440 folks in the business when I first started and learned 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.560 a lot from him. Justin please, I would love your 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:50.120 perspective on what Daryl just has. 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:51.960 I'm looking a lot more like my dad. 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.719 He's a retired dentists as much chair. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:57.720 Maybe it's more here than I do. 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:00.560 He has changed lives and teeth. 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.880 That's right, that's right, yes, look at it. 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.200 It's it was creating a new revenue stream, you know, 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.359 on a purely financial basis. But the Darryl, you know, 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.560 nailed it, and that's saying it's a perfect confluence. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.320 Of passion and business. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.880 And you know, we are twenty eight years at this company, 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.480 the two of us this month, if you can believe that. 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:27.440 And as people say, you should stop telling people that 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.920 because you're basically just saying how old you are. However, 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.600 I think it's what's it's interesting because in that time, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.200 it's as though we've been at five different companies. We've 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.240 had the ability because of our size, that we've been 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.880 able to change and be nibole and adjust to the 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:48.240 to the changing marketplace. And and yes, in this last 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.880 you know year has been a seismic shift. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:52.280 No question about it. 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.960 We were you know, it was interesting because the pandemic 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.719 really kind of forced us to scale up the nonscriptive 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.240 business as all the scripted stuff really came to you know, 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.360 came to an end for some time there, and then 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.600 we were very well positioned in this last year to 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.320 just continue further and continue to scale up and hit 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.880 the ground running when I think a lot of companies 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.960 were trying to pivot and shift into the nonscripted space 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:23.240 who didn't have that experience, so you know, not that 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.480 there was a silver lining of the pandemic for anybody. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.920 But I think that runway really gave us an opportunity 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.360 to really focus on it in the last in the. 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:35.120 Last twelve months. 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:39.600 And and also, you know, Strikes Aside twenty three right 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.679 out of the game was proving to be a huge 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:46.120 challenge in terms of the marketplace and selling. You know, 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.480 a lot of these companies just didn't have the money 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.640 and they were being incredibly selective and fickle. And that 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.760 is certainly the case now as we're coming out of this, 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:59.200 and we'll continue on into until twenty four and you know, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.720 hopefully we'll get back to a much healthier place. But 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.360 it feels like, you know, it's going to be a long, 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.000 a long recovery, and now we have to think forward 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.760 in terms of finding that balance once again with scripted 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:14.440 and nonscripted. 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.640 So interesting times. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.960 You guys have very you know, quickly distinguished yourself with 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.840 some very high end production life on our planet. A 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.480 project of that scale and caliber that does not come 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.040 together in six months. There's nothing, you know, there's nothing 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.840 like low budget about just looking at the scope of 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.320 what you've got on the screen there. How are you 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.320 making how are you making how do you make the 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:44.920 economics of documentary and unscripted work for you in this environment, 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:46.640 in this environment right now? 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.439 Well, each each project's different. I mean that Life on 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.160 Our Planet actually came to us from Netflix, and you know, 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.520 I think a couple of things that people bring things 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.560 to us for is one is sort of access and 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.480 another is expertise. On that one they were looking for, 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.319 how do you sort of transport people to prehistoric times 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.680 and then recreate these animals that were extinct. So obviously 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.840 Silverback is the best in class at sort of natural history. 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.720 They do it better than anyone, but they hadn't done 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.439 visual effects before, and Justin and I have done that 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.160 for two decades working for Steven and learning how to 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.520 do that. So they came to us on that and 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.160 it became just a great sort of collaboration. That's what 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.680 we've been looking for in sort of all of our shows. 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:35.840 We sort of we. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.520 Used our scripted playbook in the nonscripted landscape in terms 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.760 of let's partner with the best in each genre, you know, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.560 whether it was Alex Gibney does a certain thing, so 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:46.839 we do a lot of shows with him. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:47.199 R J. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:51.640 Cutler does a certain thing, Frank Marshall imagine, So we 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:55.520 tried to sort of find a way to combine forces 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.360 with the best in the business. And sometimes it's us 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.520 bringing the idea to somebody and other times it's people 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:01.760 bringing the idea to us. 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:02.000 You know. 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.800 Good Night API is another example of access. You know, 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.920 NASA has a lot of people knocking at its door, 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.320 and to have the Ambulance brand, there's sort of a 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:15.600 guarantee that the show is going to be done in 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.280 a certain way and at a certain level. And so 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.240 that was one another one where somebody brought us the idea. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.040 So we really sort of do you know what we 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.439 do inscripted as we source great material and then we 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:27.920 partner with the best of the best, and then we 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.839 try and as Steven says, he calls us his block 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:33.840 and tackle is like we try and block and tackle 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.400 and allow them, you know, the creative people to do 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.160 you know, their best work, and then bring bring something 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.880 to it from our end as well, whether that's storytelling, 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.040 whether that's packaging, whether that's you know, chasing talent, you know, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:50.040 getting Morgan Freeman to be the narrator in life on 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.840 our planet, we have Lessie Feldman, who runs casting for us, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.360 and we call her our secret weapon, and she was 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.120 able to get Angela Bassett to do the vo for 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.079 good Night Appia as well. So we kind of use 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:05.000 all of our all of our tools that we use 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.120 in the scripted world we use in the non scripted 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:07.760 world as well. 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.760 And Life on Our Planet that was a five year endeavor. 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.960 It was a long time from the original development to screen, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:22.040 as by the way, many of our scripted shows have been. 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.560 And you know, we always joke with folks we're developing 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.240 with if the time in place is not right today. 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.200 You know, we've been at this company, as I said, 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:32.160 for twenty eight years. 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.920 It will find its time and place, and that's proven 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.240 to be true, I think, without a question. But to 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.440 answer your question, yeah, I think there are things like 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.720 Life and Our Planet that take a lot longer. And 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:47.480 then we had two other Netflix documentaries premiere within the 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.520 last six weeks, Encounters which was four hours. 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.839 In Big Vape, which was four hours. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:58.040 Both premiere to number one, and that's a much shorter 0:11:58.480 --> 0:11:59.680 production period. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:01.040 You know. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.240 And as always as a case, let me just ask you, yeah, 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.160 excuse me, let me just ask you justin so like 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.280 interesting the Jewel story, which is definitely on my list 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.080 I want to catch up with because that just story 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.480 just seems like how that, how that was allowed to 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.480 happen and like you know, ruin the lungs of a 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.720 generation of teenagers and twenty some things that you know, 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.680 we're marketed to aggressively something like that. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.240 That's a little more topical kind of off the news 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.800 off of litigation that's going on, is that that obviously 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.120 is going to be a different process than a five 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:38.120 year natural history documentary with with animation and special effects 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.480 and that kind of thing. So I'm guessing it's like 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.280 you have a portfolio of things. You have your things 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:44.840 that you know are going to take a couple of years, 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.920 things that you can turn around a little quickly, historical documentaries, 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:50.120 just looking at your slate. 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:55.440 Yeah, yeah, that's correct, And you don't often control you know, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.800 we were fortuitives at the end of this year that 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.280 we had three you know, very high profile docs between 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.440 the counters Vent Life on Our Planet premiering, but the 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:09.360 timing of that was not something that we necessarily control, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.080 and is the case with many things going forward, and 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.480 we have you know, fifteen other you know docs in 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.679 the in the pipeline and you try to spread them out. 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.000 You can't get guarantee that. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.160 So it's it's just an ongoing conversation with these platforms 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.320 and when they're you know, when they need something and 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.120 when they can't anticipate eating something. 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.800 So but that is the advantage of you know, one 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:37.800 of the big advantages of nonscript is you can get 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:42.439 things going much more quickly other than you know, the 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.480 outliers like Life on Our Planet that took five years 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.440 and we were on you know, visual effects reviews every 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.760 Monday for four years. You know, we have we have 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.720 stuff like that in the scripted world too. We have 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.280 you know, Masters of the Air that's coming out and 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:59.520 you know at the Top of the Ear for Apple 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.960 that was literally a ten year journey, or Halo that 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.600 took us eight years. And so it's similar in that, 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.120 you know, we have the advantage just night being at 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.600 the company for so long that we're you know, there's 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:13.920 things that we've worked on that we could stick with 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.320 and deliver on and not have to worry. Okay, well 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.480 if we're leaving, you know, they're not going to keep going, right, 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.400 But that is an advantage in nonscripted is that you 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.320 can really get things going much more quickly. It's a 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.120 little easier to sell them in terms of the economics 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.400 of them, some of them. You know, it's like anything. 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:32.960 It's like the scriptor world too. If you get a 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.320 bidding war going, you're going to have better economics, and 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:36.920 you're going to have a bigger piece of the back 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.720 end because the back end will be bigger and other 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:44.720 ones the margins are smaller, and and you're splitting. You know, 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.600 a lot of times we're splitting with partners. We don't 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.200 mind splitting with partners as long as everyone's bringing something 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.360 to the party. To us, we'd rather have, you know, 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:54.840 fifty percent of something than one hundred percent of nothing. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:56.000 So we just. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.280 Find the best people and we watch all of the 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.240 docs and we oh, I would love to work with 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.760 that person. And we has been great about they represent 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.640 us in TV. They've been great about, you know, introducing 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.920 us to people that they're in business with, whether it's 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.960 at their own company or other people that they don't 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.560 wrap in just trying to make marriages, you know, because 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.680 it's such a collaboration mm hmm. 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.160 And then and some of these sorry, some of the 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.200 some of these ideas that we're developing it documentaries warrant 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.000 you know, a scripted conversation, and they're a handful that 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.000 we're developing simultaneously. 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.080 As scripted and nonscripted. 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.080 The upside of the nonscripted and the documentary being able 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.400 to move on that quicker is that we could use 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.360 that almost as a platform to help launch the scripted shows. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.320 And we have a few things to that end that 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.840 we're working on. We're working on right now, or as 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.640 you know, I think Netflix has done successfully, you can 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:01.200 have you know, a nonscripted doc that is simultaneously launching 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.240 when you're scripted show that's maybe in the same area 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.160 or arena, and connect those dots. 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.440 So that's always something interesting look at. 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:14.040 And we also constantly talk with our creative team about 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:19.160 finding inspiration in you know, in docks that aren't necessarily 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.800 that are not our docs. But as you know, as 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.160 we know that, you know, the truth is stranger in fiction, 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.440 and you'll often find a backdrop or a world or 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.880 a character or something that could inspire something on the 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:32.280 scripted side as well. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.400 Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:49.480 Amblin Television Heads Darryl Frank and Justin Falvey, and we're 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.520 back with more from Amblin Television chiefs Darryl Frank and 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:58.720 Justin Falvey. Would you say, I mean, it's it seems evident, 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.360 but would you say that, like star, the cost of 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.639 starting up a unscripted if you have a documentary idea, 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.920 the startup costs are much less. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.200 Than if you say, I have an idea for a sitcom. 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.960 Yeah, or of course yeah, because you don't obviously don't 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.240 have a script, and you you know, it's really a 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:17.919 sizzle and a deck. It's sort of what we go 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.000 out with a sizzle, a deck and a great pitch 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.960 and then some access. So you can have a lot 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.840 more of those going for what it would cost you to, 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:28.840 you know, do a pilot script if you will, or 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:33.520 do a pilot. 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.520 My mom, And would you say that? 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.240 I've also been hearing from people that the especially in 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.320 unscripted reality documentary, that some of the even at Netflix, 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.640 like some of the terms are loosening a little bit. 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.520 It's not like okay, blanket, we're buying you out for 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.400 ten years, fifteen years, but that there's a little more 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:56.200 wiggle room, especially to get like territories outside the US 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.959 and Canada. Okay, well maybe we don't need this documentary 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.119 for eight years in this part of Western Europe. 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.040 And you know, after a year you can see. I mean, 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:04.720 I've heard. 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.600 I just came back from Mipcom and I was hearing 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.600 from a lot of the European producers especially that there's 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.440 that suddenly there's a lot more flexibility. I don't know 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.440 if you guys are feeling that at all in terms 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.520 of deal deal making, particularly around the unscripted. 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.119 Yeah. Again, it's it depends on how many offers you 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.000 have and you know how frothy you can make the market. 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.800 But they are open to licenses in certain scenarios and 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:31.960 it has to be sort of the right group of 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.160 people and you have to have multiple offers. But look, 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.880 it's something that has to start happening in the scripted 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.280 business too, I mean, and that's why I love what 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.160 you know, Peter Chernan's doing and Evans is over there 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.000 now at North Road and what they've talked about of 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.280 sort of you know, you can't these buyers, the platforms 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.600 can't supply everything to themselves. You know, they need independence, 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.480 they need other people bringing them things. So it makes 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.240 it's good business sense to say, okay, well, you know 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.600 we we don't want to pay that, we won't pay 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.320 the full amount. Let somebody else take a little bit 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.919 of risk and then allow, you know, allow there to 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:13.720 be some success based results, you know, where where you 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.480 could actually make money off something. You know, right now, 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:20.800 if you have a if you have Stranger Things on Netflix, 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:22.879 or if you have the thing that's you know, number 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.800 three hundred, as a producer, you get paid the same amount, 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.760 you know, So we're really looking for, you know, the 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.560 business to change a little bit where maybe these perpetual 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.400 license fees go away, Maybe there's non exclusive licenses after 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:38.120 a couple of years. 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:38.880 Maybe there's. 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.360 Territories that you can carve out as you know, if 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.919 you put up a little of the money, and I 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.159 think for the buyers, it's going to make their money go, 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:51.199 their budgets go a lot further if they don't have 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.800 to pay one hundred percent, one hundred and twenty percent, 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:55.960 one hundred and forty percent of every show. They don't 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.119 need these shows for fifteen years, you know, ninety percent 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.640 of them, you know know, it's you know, people are 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.280 going to watch for three or four years they're not 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.720 going to watch for fifteen years, So how do you 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:12.080 how do you change the model so that producers, independent 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.800 studios could start making money again. And that's just good 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:17.960 for the health of the business. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.200 Yeah, And it's as you said, it's mitigating it's mitigating 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:29.400 the risk, but also allowing them to focus less on 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.600 you know, a massive development spend, you know, which is 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:35.800 a lot of them have doug a hole to that extent, 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.639 and you know, and if they can be wise about 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.840 the way they're spreading the well so to speak, it 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:43.840 will go a lot further. 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.399 If their goal mostly for these platforms. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.120 It's subscribers, you know, and it's balancing for them short 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.000 term versus versus long term. Well, most of them are 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.440 in a position now they need to get healthy quickly 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:57.879 and they have to offset that somehow. 0:20:58.000 --> 0:20:59.159 So I think it's invariable. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:02.200 I think you're correct, definitely is trending that way, and 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:03.480 that'll be great for everybody. 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.960 How about for you all as a business? 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:10.880 How you know, it's a it's a challenge right now 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.800 to kind of peg a value on anything, right what's 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.200 the value of a show coming off of NBC coming 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.439