Speaker 1: I think people literally pray for this, and of course
Speaker 1: they do. I mean, look at the I mean the DNA,
Speaker 1: and I'll move to the science as well as the
Speaker 1: spirit of this. Like the DNA of the Filipino right,
Speaker 1: it is defiant. It is so defiant in the face
Speaker 1: of a basic fact that says this sport is not
Speaker 1: for you. This is our final episode and we want
Speaker 1: to look into the future and ask what it will
Speaker 1: take for the Philippines to develop the player who will
Speaker 1: eventually make the dream come true. The country, with what
Speaker 1: I believe are the most passionate basketball fans in the world,
Speaker 1: can't wait much longer for it. But the good news
Speaker 1: is I don't think they'll have to. Thanks to everyone
Speaker 1: for listening throughout the series and for sharing the love
Speaker 1: of the game that exists in the Philippines like no
Speaker 1: other place in this world. Welcome to Episode six of
Speaker 1: Hoops Paradise. The Philippines love up the game basketball basketball.
Speaker 1: Archell stand Nico. I hate to say it, but disappointed
Speaker 1: in you. Whoa whoa whoa me? What did I do?
Speaker 1: It's just that if you believed in yourself like I
Speaker 1: believe in you, I think the Philippines could have already
Speaker 1: had that elusive first born and raised NBA player that
Speaker 1: the entire nation's been waiting decades to see. Well, well, well,
Speaker 1: you know when I watched the league these days, I
Speaker 1: can't tell you how often I find myself sitting there
Speaker 1: watching just the absolutely dominant play of so many, so
Speaker 1: many five foot nine and three quarter inch guards who've
Speaker 1: lost a step and maybe never even had anything to
Speaker 1: deserve to be called a step to begin with, and thinking, wow,
Speaker 1: I really am the prototype for the modern NBA. Fully,
Speaker 1: I had you around to push me to greatness when
Speaker 1: I was just a little bit younger. It's what I do.
Speaker 1: But seriously, though, Nico, I'm curious why you think the Philippines,
Speaker 1: a country of more than one hundred million people where
Speaker 1: basketball is the unrivaled number one sport, hasn't produced an
Speaker 1: NBA player yet. I mean, before we get there, let's
Speaker 1: look at the history of NBA players from East Asian
Speaker 1: nations and remember that any single kids' chances of being
Speaker 1: one of the four hundred and fifty players on an
Speaker 1: active NBA roster at any given time they're tiny, no
Speaker 1: matter where you're born, true, true, I mean, despite the
Speaker 1: NBA's growth, and popularity in the region. East Asia is
Speaker 1: still in its developmental stages as a potential source for
Speaker 1: NBA talent. I mean, only ten players in history have
Speaker 1: grown up in the region and then made it to
Speaker 1: the league, six from China, three from Japan, and one
Speaker 1: from South Korea, and Southeast Asia has yet to produce
Speaker 1: an b A player. There have been several more NBA
Speaker 1: players of Asian descent who were raised in the States,
Speaker 1: like Jeremy Lynn, the pioneering Japanese American guard wat Missaka,
Speaker 1: and the Filipino Americans Raymond Townsend, Jordan Clarkson, and Jalen Green.
Speaker 1: Of those ten East Asian players, only Yalming, the former
Speaker 1: Houston Rockets center who was inducted into the Naysmith Memorial
Speaker 1: Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty sixteen, made an MBA
Speaker 1: All Star team. Eight of them if you're keeping count,
Speaker 1: sure we're in the Wariam Shark. Others like Jan Lyon
Speaker 1: and Wang Gigi, had long, significant careers in the NBA
Speaker 1: but never quite broke through among the league's best players.
Speaker 1: Japanese forwards Rui Hachimura of the Washington Wizards and Utawatanabe
Speaker 1: of the Brooklyn Nets are off to promising starts in
Speaker 1: their careers, but they don't project to be future All Stars.
Speaker 1: So basically, even the most powerful and well resourced nations
Speaker 1: in the Philippines global Neck of the Woods have been
Speaker 1: slower to produce NBA talent as rapidly as other continents
Speaker 1: outside of North America, like Europe, Africa, and Australia. And
Speaker 1: that's fine as basketball fans, or sports fans in general,
Speaker 1: or just plain old human beings for that matter, But
Speaker 1: we don't have to treat everything like the metal count
Speaker 1: at an Olympic Games. But here in the Philippines, the
Speaker 1: elephant in the room when it comes to why the
Speaker 1: nation hasn't produced an NBA player yet has always been hyped.
Speaker 1: I remember in episode four what coach Dick Mada said
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine after his Washington Bullets beat a
Speaker 1: team of PBA All Stars in the first ever exhibition
Speaker 1: game between NBA players and Filipino pros held on Philippine soil.
Speaker 1: Good big men will surely beat good little men, but
Speaker 1: come on, that can't be the whole story. The fact
Speaker 1: that Filipinos on average are among the shortest people in
Speaker 1: the world is a major factor but there's got to
Speaker 1: be more to it than that. Absolutely, and each next
Speaker 1: generation of PBA players seems to be blessed with a
Speaker 1: little bit more height than the last. But height will
Speaker 1: probably always be a limiting factor in the country's ability
Speaker 1: to develop NBA talent. But there's an interesting wrinkle to
Speaker 1: that idea. Filipinos have always been among the best short
Speaker 1: basketball players in the world in the PBA. When imports
Speaker 1: with NBA experience are asked if they see any local
Speaker 1: players who might have what it takes to compete at
Speaker 1: the highest level, they often say yes, the best PBA
Speaker 1: guards are up there with the best of them in
Speaker 1: terms of raw talent, skill development, and shot making ability. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm sure those imports know it'll be good for their
Speaker 1: PBA careers if they engage in a little bit of
Speaker 1: flattery when it comes to complimenting the local talent. But
Speaker 1: we've heard it enough times from enough different players to
Speaker 1: believe that there's really some truth to the idea. Of course,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you can pluck legendary Filipino guard
Speaker 1: out of the PBA, drop him into an NBA roster,
Speaker 1: and he'll be ready to contribute what those imports are
Speaker 1: saying is that if the most talented Philippine pros, regardless
Speaker 1: of height, had an opportunity to start training for the
Speaker 1: NBA at a young age, they possess the rats tools
Speaker 1: to get there. So what you're saying is that whoever
Speaker 1: figures out how to unlock that potential and send a
Speaker 1: Filipino to the NBA will basically become a national hero
Speaker 1: and have their face put on one hundred pacel bill.
Speaker 1: But how come nobody's cracked that code yet? One factor
Speaker 1: that I think gets overlooked is how when it comes
Speaker 1: to giving our local talent the time and space to
Speaker 1: reach their full athletic potential, the Philippines passion for basketball
Speaker 1: sometimes it goes too far and actually can become an
Speaker 1: obstacle in a player's development. It's like an unintended consequence
Speaker 1: of having such a strong local basketball culture, and it
Speaker 1: can affect Filipino players in a few different ways. For example,
Speaker 1: how about those great homegrown talents who win multiple PBA
Speaker 1: Most Valuable Player awards and lead their teams to championship dynasties.
Speaker 1: Is it really worth it to them to leave the
Speaker 1: Philippines and their prime of their hall of fame? PBA
Speaker 1: careers to chase an NBA dream. Maybe the dream isn't unreachable,
Speaker 1: but it's still a long shot. And when you're already
Speaker 1: established as an MVP level talent in one of the
Speaker 1: world's true hotbeds of basketball fandom, I guess it's hard
Speaker 1: to walk away from the security and the wealth you've
Speaker 1: already built in your home country. Take June Mar Fahardo,
Speaker 1: the best Filipino player of the past decade. Beginning in
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, the six foot tenh center won six straight
Speaker 1: six straight MVPs and made the Sun Miguel beer Man
Speaker 1: nearly unbeatable in an all Filipino conference. When he retires,
Speaker 1: he'll probably be remembered as the greatest player in the
Speaker 1: history of Philippine basketball. June Mar's game was never tailor
Speaker 1: made for the modern NBA. He's an overpower, low post
Speaker 1: scorer with soft hands, can vacuum up rebounds, and pretty
Speaker 1: much guarantee two points anytime he catches the ball in
Speaker 1: the paint. But even though he wasn't the exact type
Speaker 1: of player NBA teams looked for early in his career,
Speaker 1: NBA scouts saw how hard June maran the floor his
Speaker 1: natural finishing instincts and the impact he had on games,
Speaker 1: and a couple of franchises suggested he joined a summer
Speaker 1: league roster just to see how it might go. Maybe
Speaker 1: he'd be a learning experience, maybe it opened the door
Speaker 1: to something bigger. He said no thanks, and he was
Speaker 1: probably thinking no way. He was already living the dream
Speaker 1: as a multiple time MVP in the league he grew
Speaker 1: up dreaming of playing in. If it ain't broke, don't
Speaker 1: fix it. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to argue with that,
Speaker 1: who leaves in Hall of Fame career for what would
Speaker 1: be a still long shot chance at cracking an NBA roster.
Speaker 1: But even the players who've tried and not quite made
Speaker 1: it to the NBA have accomplished something. I know. There've
Speaker 1: been a number of players from the Philippines who at
Speaker 1: least dipped a toe in those waters, exploring chances to
Speaker 1: play high school or college ball in the States and
Speaker 1: then maybe reach the NBA that way. And it seems
Speaker 1: like each time a new player takes the leap, he
Speaker 1: gets a little bit closer than his predecessors did. When
Speaker 1: someone finally breaks through, it'll be because of the other
Speaker 1: Filipino NBA hopefuls who blaze the trail before him. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven in athletics, six foot nine four
Speaker 1: named Jopeth Aguilar transferred from the Philippine College hoops powerhouse
Speaker 1: Attaneo de Manila University to NCA Division one College Hoops
Speaker 1: at Western Kentucky, where he was teammates with future NBA
Speaker 1: guard Courtney Lee, But injuries limited jobhets playing time there,
Speaker 1: and eventually he found his way back to a sterling
Speaker 1: career in the PBA. Kobe Paras, a six foot six
Speaker 1: guard who showed early flashes of brilliant talent and explosive
Speaker 1: hops in Manila high school tournaments, moved to Los Angeles
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen to finish his high school career in California.
Speaker 1: He was on the right track, putting up big numbers
Speaker 1: against strong competition in earning D one scholarship offers, first
Speaker 1: from UCLA and then at Crayton. But Kobe, the son
Speaker 1: of former PBA MVP turn comedic actor Benji Paras, struggled
Speaker 1: to find a role at the college level and returned
Speaker 1: home to finish his amateur career at the University of
Speaker 1: the Philippines. He since turned pro and now plays as
Speaker 1: an import in the Japanese B League. And then in
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, Bobby Ray Parks Junior, the son of legendary
Speaker 1: PBA import Bobby Parks, tried to make the jump to
Speaker 1: the NBA level after playing college ball in the Philippines.
Speaker 1: He went undrafted in the twenty fifteen NBA draft, but
Speaker 1: showed enough promise in pre draft workouts that the Dallas
Speaker 1: Mavericks added him to their Summer League roster and then
Speaker 1: signed him to play a season in the G League
Speaker 1: with the Texas Legends. Both of those accomplishments made history
Speaker 1: the first born and raised Filipino to play in Summer
Speaker 1: League and to make a G League roster, and that
Speaker 1: brings us to the seven foot two twenty year old
Speaker 1: center Kai Soto. I started playing basketball because of mostly
Speaker 1: of my dad, because he played professionally in the Philippines.
Speaker 1: I'm from a city of Laskina City. It's a city
Speaker 1: in the Philippines, in Manila. The culture of basketball and
Speaker 1: Philippines is just amazing. It's just it's like a religion. Now,
Speaker 1: in his second year as a professional with the Adelaide
Speaker 1: thirty six ers of the Australian abl Kay went undrafted
Speaker 1: in last year's NBA draft, but he's still working to
Speaker 1: catch an MBA team's eye, and he still represents the
Speaker 1: philippines best chance to achieve the NBA dream. Now, I
Speaker 1: promise I'm not bringing this up to torture you, but
Speaker 1: can you give us a quick scouting profile? One more
Speaker 1: time of the Cassidy hoverth who Once upon a time,
Speaker 1: I'm dominated middle school basketball competition up and down the
Speaker 1: North side of Chicago and the surrounding suburbs. What are
Speaker 1: you doing? I mean, I'll play along because I trust you, Nico,
Speaker 1: but this better be going somewhere. Okay. From sixth to
Speaker 1: eighth grade, I ran local basketball leagues, ran them, Okay.
Speaker 1: I grew early, so I was already close to my
Speaker 1: adult height, bigger than most of the girls I played
Speaker 1: against back then. I was athletic enough, I was coordinated enough,
Speaker 1: I was competitive enough, and I just out hustled people
Speaker 1: and scraped my way to back to back to back
Speaker 1: MVPs three three of them things. And I wasn't the
Speaker 1: most skilled. But you know, like no one at middle
Speaker 1: school is so my tenacity one out three times. Basically,
Speaker 1: you know, I was your classic undersize power forward who
Speaker 1: peaked too early. Should have practiced more ball handling, mainly
Speaker 1: my left and shooting skills instead of you know, my
Speaker 1: baby shack drop step game in the low post, grab
Speaker 1: and rebounds like I'm Dennis Rodman, which you know, became
Speaker 1: kind of useless as soon as I got to high
Speaker 1: school and I stopped growing and couldn't overpower anyone else
Speaker 1: on the court anymore. And I mean, can I stop now?
Speaker 1: Is that enough? I have enough regret that I live
Speaker 1: with day in and day out. Could that be a
Speaker 1: whole episode? Can we just go off on a whole
Speaker 1: episode just deep diving that talking to all the young
Speaker 1: girls that you dominate? It then perfect story though, it's
Speaker 1: a perfect description. Work on your left, boys and girls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I think your experience as you moved
Speaker 1: from middle school to high school it really helped illustrate
Speaker 1: one of the challenges regarding skill development in Philippine basketball,
Speaker 1: at least in terms of training a player for a
Speaker 1: potential NBA future. In middle school, you were successful with
Speaker 1: a skill set that suddenly became less productive when you
Speaker 1: made the leap up to the high school level and
Speaker 1: found yourself competing against girls just as big or bigger
Speaker 1: than you. Once he lost that physical advantage, your game
Speaker 1: wasn't three time MVP worthy anymore. Well. The lack of
Speaker 1: overall height among Filipino players has historically left our prospects
Speaker 1: in a similar bind when it came to making the
Speaker 1: leap to higher levels of play, whether it's international competitions
Speaker 1: like the Olympics or the Feeble World Cup, or even
Speaker 1: the distant dream of the NBA. I mean, I was
Speaker 1: over here crying, so I'm glad you brought it back
Speaker 1: because I see where you're going. So if you're an
Speaker 1: athletic six foot four teenager in Manila, you're probably getting
Speaker 1: more experience in a big man role than a perimeter player,
Speaker 1: even though that height would still be small for an
Speaker 1: MBA wing exactly. And even if that six four pinoy
Speaker 1: had the dexterity and lateral quickness to develop perimeter skills
Speaker 1: that a player of his height would need to succeed
Speaker 1: in the NBA or in Europe, he might not get
Speaker 1: the opportunity to develop that side of his game enough
Speaker 1: to make the leap to higher levels of play. The
Speaker 1: talent could be there, but he might never get the
Speaker 1: chance to nurture it. And what's he going to tell
Speaker 1: his high school coach who just sees that he's got
Speaker 1: the biggest kid on the floor and his team and
Speaker 1: he naturally wants that player in the paint. I mean,
Speaker 1: imagine stepping to some toughest nails high school coach and
Speaker 1: being like, Sir, I can't play center because I need
Speaker 1: to develop an outside game for the NBA. Yeah, you'd
Speaker 1: better be ready to run laps all around Lunetta, Manila's
Speaker 1: answer to New York Central Park until you collapse if
Speaker 1: you run that plan by the coach. That's really at
Speaker 1: the heart of this cruel catch twenty two of basketball development.
Speaker 1: The Filipino hooper is still having completely managed to break
Speaker 1: free from The players with the most NBA ready skill
Speaker 1: sets tend to be guards who are barely scraping six feet,
Speaker 1: while the players with more conventional NBA body types don't
Speaker 1: develop the outside game that they'd need to stand a
Speaker 1: chance against the best players in the world. I mean,
Speaker 1: you'd know better than may. But it does seem like
Speaker 1: the country's basketball coaches and trainers are working hard to
Speaker 1: reverse that trend and develop more versatile, taller players. Take
Speaker 1: Kai Soto literally the tallest prospect the Philippines has ever
Speaker 1: produced at seven foot two, and he's been working on
Speaker 1: his touch on three pointers and running offense through his
Speaker 1: high post passing for pretty much as long as he's
Speaker 1: been playing basketball, and it shows. If anything, I get
Speaker 1: the sense that the NBA teams would like to see
Speaker 1: him develop a little more physicality to go with all
Speaker 1: that finesse he flashes one hundred percent. It's definitely getting better,
Speaker 1: and access to an infinite library of training techniques and
Speaker 1: philosophies throughout YouTube University is helping players expand their games
Speaker 1: in ways previous generations never had the chance to, and
Speaker 1: the difference is already obvious in young national team players
Speaker 1: like my guy six foot seven UAAP champion up Fighting
Speaker 1: Maroon Carl Damayo, a twenty one year old forward whose
Speaker 1: three point range ality to create off the dribble allow
Speaker 1: him to switch comfortably between roles as a big and
Speaker 1: as a wing, depending on the role his team needs
Speaker 1: for him to play in different lineups. If Carl becomes
Speaker 1: a model for future Filipino players with similar height and
Speaker 1: athletic profiles, then it starts to become much easier to
Speaker 1: imagine the country producing talents worthy of the NBA's interest,
Speaker 1: and to get a deeper understanding of what it will
Speaker 1: take to develop not just the first born and raised
Speaker 1: Filipino NBA player, but a consistent pipeline of MBA worthy talent.
Speaker 1: We wanted to speak with a Philippine basketball legend who
Speaker 1: has an insider's knowledge of both the PBA and MBA worlds.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Allipague, a Filipino American guard from Southern California, is
Speaker 1: currently an assistant coach with the Stockton Kings, the g
Speaker 1: League affiliate of the NBA Sacramento Kings. As a player,
Speaker 1: the five nine point guard had anything but MBA height,
Speaker 1: but in moments that are unforgettable to Filipino fans, he
Speaker 1: gave MBA guards like Pablo Prigioni and JJ Borea all
Speaker 1: they could handle when Jimmy and the Philippine national team
Speaker 1: matched up against Argentina and Puerto Rico in the twenty
Speaker 1: fourteen Feeble World Cup. And that's really just scratching the
Speaker 1: surface of a career full of international heroics to go
Speaker 1: along with six PBA Championships, two PBA Finals, MVP Awards,
Speaker 1: and the twenty eleven PBA regular season MVP. Between his
Speaker 1: fourteen season pro career playing in the Philippines and his
Speaker 1: current role helping the Stockton Kings G League players improve
Speaker 1: their games in hopes of earning full time roles in
Speaker 1: the NBA. There's probably nobody on the planet with a
Speaker 1: better understanding of these strengths and weaknesses of Filipino players
Speaker 1: and exactly what the country needs to do to develop
Speaker 1: more NBA talent. You know, I think I think it
Speaker 1: would be groundbreaking. You know, again for a country that
Speaker 1: has such a deep love and passion for the game.
Speaker 1: I think it would just serve as a huge inspiration
Speaker 1: for the next generation to say, hey, this kid was
Speaker 1: born and raised here in the country, and now he's
Speaker 1: playing against the best in the world. You know, obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, Kay, you know, is working his way towards
Speaker 1: blazon that trail. M And I think up to this point,
Speaker 1: he's he's done a great job. You know, he's only
Speaker 1: twenty years old. Um, I think I think he's still
Speaker 1: you know, he still has things to work on his game,
Speaker 1: but you know, he just went through the draft process.
Speaker 1: You know, he already played professionally in a very competitive
Speaker 1: league in Australia. So I think he's on his way,
Speaker 1: you know, and hopefully he stays healthy and just continues
Speaker 1: to grow with his game and continues to just improve
Speaker 1: because at this level, I mean, it's it's the best
Speaker 1: in the world for a reason. But it's great to
Speaker 1: see him really carry the hopes of an entire country
Speaker 1: on his young shoulders. But getting a chance to talk
Speaker 1: to him a few weeks ago in Sacramental when he
Speaker 1: came to work out for the team, um, it was
Speaker 1: really good. And again I think he does have time
Speaker 1: on his side, and it's just a matter of him
Speaker 1: continuing to work on his game and continue to improve,
Speaker 1: and hopefully he'll get that opportunity. So what do you think?
Speaker 1: How long will it be before the Philippines makes history
Speaker 1: with its first born and raised NBA player? Oh? Man,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I also don't want to say something
Speaker 1: presumptuous that it jinxes us and then I wind up
Speaker 1: never seeing that moment come in my lifetime. I mean,
Speaker 1: all right, I asked the question, but like, relax, just
Speaker 1: looking for an over under here. No need to get
Speaker 1: like existential on us. But we're beIN noise. Basketball is existential. Fine, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: Let me think ever since Japetaguilar a College in Manila
Speaker 1: to make a run at US Division one ball, there's
Speaker 1: been a steady trickle, trickle of Filipino talent willing to
Speaker 1: chase the NBA dream. And over that time that trickle
Speaker 1: has become more like a stream. And each new player
Speaker 1: in that lineage, from Kobe Paras to Bobby ray Park's
Speaker 1: junior to Kai, they all seem to get a little
Speaker 1: bit closer to the NBA. That's promising, But I don't
Speaker 1: want to make the mistake of assuming it'll always go
Speaker 1: that way. That just because Kai got so close to
Speaker 1: the next hopeful who comes along as a short bed
Speaker 1: to make it all the way, and it won't be
Speaker 1: anything to be a shamed of if more players try
Speaker 1: and ultimately fall short. I mean, it is the NBA
Speaker 1: and there's only room for four hundred and fifty of
Speaker 1: the most gifted basketball players alive. But the way things
Speaker 1: are going and how fast Filipino players seem to be
Speaker 1: gaining the sort of skills they'll need to get the
Speaker 1: league's attention, someday, Hey, here it is, I think we
Speaker 1: could see the first NBA player born and raised the
Speaker 1: Philippines within I don't know, ten years time, twenty thirty three,
Speaker 1: mark your calendar. Oh okay, marked, I think we need
Speaker 1: to talk about one more big subject before we wrap
Speaker 1: a bow around this podcast. What will it mean to
Speaker 1: each of us personally, to our families, to everyone living
Speaker 1: in the Philippines, and to the Filipinos based in countries
Speaker 1: all over the world when that first born and raise
Speaker 1: Pinoy finally makes it to the league. And to have
Speaker 1: that conversation, I asked a friend to join us. He
Speaker 1: has a way of putting things in perspective, which is
Speaker 1: my nice way of saying. He's a world class overthinker.
Speaker 1: And you know he went to Harvard, so you know
Speaker 1: he's got class. A fellow member of the ESPN Filipino
Speaker 1: Cabayan Club and a proud chronicler of every major sporting
Speaker 1: achievement by Pinoy athletes ESPN and Meadowlarks. Pablo Esturing, what
Speaker 1: would it mean to Filipino fans to see the first
Speaker 1: born and raise Filipino player in the NBA? You know,
Speaker 1: have you ever thought about that and what do you
Speaker 1: think that would mean? Yeah, I've literally dreamed it. It is.
Speaker 1: It's a messianic concept. And I say that with all
Speaker 1: of the knowledge of Catholicism, of religiosity informing our ancestry,
Speaker 1: Like I think people literally pray for this, and of
Speaker 1: course they do. I mean, look at the I mean
Speaker 1: the DNA, and I'll move to the science as well
Speaker 1: as the spirit of this, like the DNA of the
Speaker 1: Filipino right. It is defiant. It is so defiant in
Speaker 1: the face of a basic fact that says this sport
Speaker 1: is not for you. The universe. It seems at some
Speaker 1: point like God was like, you know what, I know.
Speaker 1: You guys like boxing, grade you can go do that.
Speaker 1: You guys like cockfighting. It seems like maybe a little
Speaker 1: questionable ethnically, but can rock with it basketball. It is
Speaker 1: staggering how unrelenting we are in chasing this as the
Speaker 1: thing we love the most. I never got over that.
Speaker 1: I'll never get over it, and I refuse to give
Speaker 1: it up for that reason. So is that how you
Speaker 1: would describe what it would mean to you personally? If
Speaker 1: as a fan, you're watching the NBA Draft and whoever
Speaker 1: Juan de la Cruz it is, and the two twenty something,
Speaker 1: hopefully it's the twenties draft, it's called up with the
Speaker 1: you know in pick of the draft, like, are you
Speaker 1: just gonna completely just lose it? What does it look
Speaker 1: like in the Tory household? In my dream? There are
Speaker 1: two versions that I'm not sure which version is best.
Speaker 1: In the one dream, of course, he's a lottery pick, right,
Speaker 1: and he's on stage and he's dapping up Adam Silver
Speaker 1: and he's dancing in a way that also shows another
Speaker 1: great Filipino talent, maybe grabbing the microphone, doing a little karaoke,
Speaker 1: a little air supply. Maybe it's that. But in the
Speaker 1: second version of this dream, which I'm actually kind of
Speaker 1: more intrigued by, he's like, not there, it's a late
Speaker 1: round pick. But ESPN cuts to the home and you
Speaker 1: just see the spread. You see the titas, you see everybody,
Speaker 1: like everyone has a plate. They're like they got let
Speaker 1: chone in their mouth. The csig is still it's still sizzling.
Speaker 1: You can hear it, like right off screen, you can
Speaker 1: smell it through the television. I kind of want the
Speaker 1: chaos of like and there he is with all of
Speaker 1: his cousins, or at least the people that he says
Speaker 1: are his cousins. It's really impossible to know based on
Speaker 1: the sheer numbers inside of this box. Uh yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I want I want the most Filipino version of this,
Speaker 1: and I think that might be it. I think, I
Speaker 1: think though, that that second version happens. And then right
Speaker 1: behind him, it's the three of us because the family
Speaker 1: has reached out and like, these three are vaguely somehow
Speaker 1: connected to me. You know, we know them, we know
Speaker 1: them in Yeah, they're Tina baby, knew my Tino junior,
Speaker 1: and we're we're they went to school together, like you
Speaker 1: know they they went to mass once. We're related. I mean,
Speaker 1: while we're talking about family, who in your life do
Speaker 1: you feel like would have the greatest sense of joy
Speaker 1: or pride when it happens. Is it you? Or do
Speaker 1: you have you know other family members who you feel like, like,
Speaker 1: does your mom you know, always point out, you know,
Speaker 1: versus Filipino like anyone. I mean, my life is constantly
Speaker 1: people pointing with their mouths towards people who are plausibly
Speaker 1: Filipino and being like miss Usa, y Erican idol, that
Speaker 1: girl from high school musical. It's all that. And so
Speaker 1: I do have to credit like I inherited love of
Speaker 1: basketball truly from my dad and my mom. I'm first
Speaker 1: generation American. They came over. I inherited, I mean mostly
Speaker 1: from my dad. My mom really, I mean she supports,
Speaker 1: she now supports what I do in sports. So they're
Speaker 1: candidates for this question. But the answer really is I
Speaker 1: have an almost three year old daughter now, and I
Speaker 1: am trying to raise her to care about basketball in
Speaker 1: the way that half of her, the Filipino half, truly
Speaker 1: he needs to to continue my legacy. And so by
Speaker 1: the time this happens, and I believe she, I fear
Speaker 1: and actually hope, I suppose that, yes, she's conscious enough,
Speaker 1: she's old enough to have the ability to form memories
Speaker 1: of this moment when this hypothetical Filipino, this Juan de
Speaker 1: la Cruz is drafted that she will see that television
Speaker 1: screen and recognize herself, like and that's what this is
Speaker 1: about in the end, right like it's it's the Philippine.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, Asia as a concept is vast, billions
Speaker 1: of people across so many countries and in America, lots
Speaker 1: of places, honestly across the world. Everything gets shrunk into
Speaker 1: one thing. We're all Asian, and I and part of
Speaker 1: me that resonates I feel it I take pride in
Speaker 1: that on some level, but really, the Filipino experience is
Speaker 1: a particular one. It's a particular one in the way
Speaker 1: that all cultures are, but ours when it comes to basketball,
Speaker 1: is ours. Like I can't think of anything else that's
Speaker 1: like basketball in the Philippines as a matter of love,
Speaker 1: as a matter of family, as a matter of faith,
Speaker 1: and that shit to me, Like, I want, I want
Speaker 1: everyone in my bloodline to know and to feel that
Speaker 1: in the way that I think we do. And I
Speaker 1: think it's the ultimate achievement, right, because over the last
Speaker 1: few decades there has been this diaspoor of Filipino people
Speaker 1: just going out into the world and joining workforces. It
Speaker 1: pick whichever country, right, I think it's the ultimate achievement
Speaker 1: that the peak elites avenger level ofw Filipino overseas foreign
Speaker 1: worker is an NBA player. Yeah, it's storybook. That's just
Speaker 1: where all of this is supposed to be headed. No,
Speaker 1: you've met our nurses, right you you you you know us.
Speaker 1: We're good to you. We speak startlingly good English. Look
Speaker 1: at this guy. You have to dunk on your head.
Speaker 1: Enjoy that now. But what if you can't dunk on
Speaker 1: your head, like doesn't matter if that player goes on
Speaker 1: to have like a great career, like a regular one
Speaker 1: or poor one, like it's just being drafted. You know
Speaker 1: good enough, you know it's a great question. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to put all of this pressure on somebody
Speaker 1: who realistically, although Nate Robinson, I have learned in my
Speaker 1: extensive research is like fractionally Filipino, So I don't want
Speaker 1: to absolutely claimed claimed. We tried to make Andre Blatch
Speaker 1: of Filipino through legislation to play for the national team
Speaker 1: back to back baskets there by black step back. Remember
Speaker 1: this is six powerfully we will take a sixteenth of
Speaker 1: Nate Robinsons. But even still, I don't want to put
Speaker 1: all the pressure on like, Okay, he needs to be
Speaker 1: like you know, he needs he needs to do the
Speaker 1: exact things that our height would not suggest that we
Speaker 1: can do. Um fare. I think it just needs to
Speaker 1: be the style it needs to be. It needs to
Speaker 1: be a little reckless or a lot reckless. It needs
Speaker 1: to be unnecessary. Spin moves between the legs on layups
Speaker 1: like give me that three sixties, just like you know,
Speaker 1: a little jelly as the kids say now, but like
Speaker 1: it's the flare. It's the confidence, it's the it's the
Speaker 1: idea of like this is a culture that dances and
Speaker 1: things karaoke, and this is how they play basketball. I
Speaker 1: want all of this. I want I want the clogged
Speaker 1: arteries of the Filipino digestive system. It's indulgence, the cholesterol,
Speaker 1: the unnecessary fat. I want all of that in this
Speaker 1: person's game. That's all I ask for it. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: all you ask. I mean, it's poetic. You are a
Speaker 1: poetic I have a lot of space in my back
Speaker 1: for just like a massive tattoo. I think I just
Speaker 1: found out what I'm going to put there, and it's
Speaker 1: just like beautiful, perfect curative, entire the entire ten seconds
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna have in my back. Yeah, it didn't
Speaker 1: go as well when I went to my doctor's office
Speaker 1: and got my physical and he was like, you need
Speaker 1: to stop eating what you whatever? It is. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like this ray, this X ray just has a picture
Speaker 1: of a pig on it. I don't understand how this
Speaker 1: is possible. Follow I know we laugh about it, I
Speaker 1: know we poke fun about you know us. Really covetting
Speaker 1: is the word covetting just like a home grown Filipino
Speaker 1: born and raised Lichon eating basketball player in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Is there though a lesson here somewhere about us maybe
Speaker 1: not being so overly covettis of that one thing that
Speaker 1: the Philippines hasn't yet achieved in basketball, which is a
Speaker 1: homegrown NBA player when look at all the other things
Speaker 1: we have, you know, burden hand, burden bush, you know. O,
Speaker 1: We're a country that has a basketball culture that's maybe richer, deeper,
Speaker 1: definitely on the elite, you know, and it goes back
Speaker 1: through history, you know then compared to anywhere else on
Speaker 1: the planet. No, it is I mean true to the
Speaker 1: whole idea of like exporting Filipinos wherever, right, like there
Speaker 1: is something truly as a human as a matter of
Speaker 1: the human condition. It's objectively impressive that this culture has
Speaker 1: bloomed in the way that it has in the absence
Speaker 1: of the most conventional ways to install love in someone
Speaker 1: for something. Right, the way you install love for someone
Speaker 1: in something most easily is you say, hey, here is
Speaker 1: something that looks like you. Do you identify with it?
Speaker 1: We didn't do that. There is so little to identify
Speaker 1: with in terms of basketball being sold to us from
Speaker 1: the very beginning, right, And even the origins story remains
Speaker 1: a little confusing to me, a little mystical to me,
Speaker 1: Like in my mind, it's just sort of like it happened.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure it happened in the way that spam
Speaker 1: became a thing that my doctor tells me to eat
Speaker 1: less of, right, like exported from the United States an
Speaker 1: army base somewhere World War two. I'm sure there are
Speaker 1: roots in that. But the fact that we built a
Speaker 1: flourishing culture, economy, dream dream world around something that isn't
Speaker 1: for us explicitly that you sent us out somewhere and
Speaker 1: we thrived in alien circumstances, Like that's the story of
Speaker 1: the Philippines too, And even if we never get the
Speaker 1: thing that we dream of, I love that. I love
Speaker 1: act literally for us. I love it. I mean, you've
Speaker 1: said it all, I guess, like, just to put a
Speaker 1: final bow on this conversation, I don't know how much
Speaker 1: more poetic you can get, but if you could, just
Speaker 1: what is the first thing that comes to mind when
Speaker 1: you think of Filipino's relationship to basketball. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: less poetic, but it's real. I have the one of
Speaker 1: my most treasured possessions is I want I try to
Speaker 1: explain the Philippines and like the Philippine Basketball Association to people, right,
Speaker 1: like in what it's like over there, and the rules
Speaker 1: about imports and height and I mean just all of it, right,
Speaker 1: all of its. I just show them this jersey that
Speaker 1: I have. It's an Alvin patrimonial autograph jersey. It is
Speaker 1: the Tender Juicy hot Dogs emblazoned across the front. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know, you thought I was joking. I
Speaker 1: was talking about all the pork stuff. But just imagine,
Speaker 1: just imagine an NBA team called the Tender Juicy hot
Speaker 1: Dogs being like the greatest team in the league, and
Speaker 1: you'll have a little sense as to how it is
Speaker 1: that our mash up of culture is is both special
Speaker 1: and in every possible way extremely delicious. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: the choice of an adjective. Pablo. I mean, they're very red, Nico,
Speaker 1: They're so red. I mean the hot dogs on question
Speaker 1: that you gotta know what they are. It's like it's
Speaker 1: almost like chemically red. You know, it's like package pre package.
Speaker 1: It's it's a it's it's not it's it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: what your doctor wants, but my god, man, with some
Speaker 1: white rice, and it's always with some more white rice.
Speaker 1: It's white Pablo the poet Torre. Everyone. Now, we're going
Speaker 1: to take a quick break before we wrapped this full
Speaker 1: thing up in a ball. Nico, I can't believe this
Speaker 1: experience is over. This has been, I mean enlightening. It's
Speaker 1: been just special to not only talk to you every
Speaker 1: single episode, but to learn more about the Philippines, which
Speaker 1: obviously I have this strong connection too, but still kind
Speaker 1: of feel incredibly distant from. So you know, this has
Speaker 1: been a really, really um wonderful experience and I couldn't
Speaker 1: think of a better person than you to share it with. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, I think that our friendship and how
Speaker 1: it's grown is my favorite thing out of this entire experience.
Speaker 1: But also I've really felt much more connected to the
Speaker 1: Philippines and being Filipino, and I feel extremely validated by
Speaker 1: this basketball craz that I've had ever since I was
Speaker 1: like two years old, you know, just by talking to
Speaker 1: all these other people from all around the world who
Speaker 1: feel the same way, tracing back a little bit of
Speaker 1: our history. It's I'm so proud to be Filipino and
Speaker 1: to be part of this crazy basketball country. I mean,
Speaker 1: Sames's you said it validation, I will say, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just learning more and feeling more connected and understanding
Speaker 1: just the passion that the Philippines has for basketball. I
Speaker 1: think also makes me understand myself a little bit in
Speaker 1: the connection that you know, I've always had to basketball
Speaker 1: my whole life. I will say, I think my mom,
Speaker 1: who will definitely be listening, Hi, Mom, I don't know
Speaker 1: she'll be you know, happy with like the tagala lessons
Speaker 1: that you gave me throughout the show, or just disappointed
Speaker 1: in herself since she didn't teach me tegala growing up,
Speaker 1: because that's only your fault, Mom, Like, like, let's have
Speaker 1: a real one on one conversation here, like you and
Speaker 1: Lola should have taught me to gala growing up. But
Speaker 1: not that I hold it against you or anything, but
Speaker 1: at least I found my friend Nico to help me out,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty eight years later. I think to wrap
Speaker 1: it up, this would be a good point to finally
Speaker 1: give you your grade. After all the lessons each episode, right,
Speaker 1: so not good? I think. I think given the limited time,
Speaker 1: limited exposure to it, and the fact that I put
Speaker 1: you on the spot with super difficult terms each and
Speaker 1: every episode. I think you get away from this with
Speaker 1: a really strong B B. I mean, we all know
Speaker 1: in every Asian household, a B is zon won't cut it.
Speaker 1: But I will take a BEE because I was more
Speaker 1: like behind the scenes, there's a thing called an edit button.
Speaker 1: Our producers, Peter and Grace, I think they would probably
Speaker 1: grade me more like a D, but I will. I
Speaker 1: will take a bee, not a curb. No, I think
Speaker 1: I think a B is strong with a possible B
Speaker 1: plus if you put in a little bit of their credit.
Speaker 1: But your mom and your Lola, they both get sea viruses. Sorry,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly, but I will say this. It just was
Speaker 1: so great to talk to so many different people. I
Speaker 1: think my favorite interview was with Eric Spoelstra because I
Speaker 1: felt a connection to him, both of us being half
Speaker 1: Filipino raised and born of course Stateside, but always having
Speaker 1: this like deep love for the Philippines. What you hope
Speaker 1: for is that young kids cannot put limits on what
Speaker 1: their dreams may be, and so if they see more
Speaker 1: role models and see more possibilities of what could be,
Speaker 1: and it maybe you know to be an NBA player
Speaker 1: you know, like Jordan Clarkson or Green. But it also
Speaker 1: may be a dream just to work in NBA, to
Speaker 1: work for the NBA main offices, to be involved somehow,
Speaker 1: some way in this great association. There are so many
Speaker 1: different opportunities and possibilities now and hopefully you and I
Speaker 1: you know, and everybody else can kind of pull back
Speaker 1: the curtain for kids that may have just been fans before,
Speaker 1: they may be able to think bigger now. It was
Speaker 1: funny at the end of it he called me his
Speaker 1: sister because we just had this connection of oh, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we're kind of the same person. We both have our
Speaker 1: both of our mothers are born and raised in the Philippines,
Speaker 1: both of our fathers are from you know, European descent,
Speaker 1: and we also found our careers in the NBA. And
Speaker 1: to kind of like talk about just the super nova
Speaker 1: that he is in the Philippines, I mean he is
Speaker 1: like he is Michael Jackson meets Michael Jordan when he
Speaker 1: goes over there. And he did extend an invitation for
Speaker 1: all of us to join for a big party in
Speaker 1: the Philippines. So we better take him up on that.
Speaker 1: I am ready willing and able to be at that party.
Speaker 1: It's it's great to be able to kind of speak
Speaker 1: to him now here for this podcast, and the conversation
Speaker 1: that you guys had is such a fun listen. I
Speaker 1: remember the first time he came over to the Philippines
Speaker 1: as head coach of the Heat and he wasn't in
Speaker 1: a two time champ yet, um, and you know, he
Speaker 1: was just the guy that we were so proud of
Speaker 1: for making it to be an NBA head coach. And
Speaker 1: obviously we're a whole lot proud of him now. And
Speaker 1: also we you know, we had conversations with guys who
Speaker 1: are still deep in it in terms of pushing Philippine basketball,
Speaker 1: whether it's Tim Cohen who when we spoke to him,
Speaker 1: he was in the middle of getting ready for practice
Speaker 1: for a PBA Finals game. And happy belated birthday, Yes,
Speaker 1: yesterday it's been Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: was a weird day yesterday. One of the very few
Speaker 1: times I've won a game on my birthday. Usually I
Speaker 1: feel like I broke the broke the curse. Yesterday? Are
Speaker 1: you getting ready for practice? Is this? Yeah? In a
Speaker 1: few hours, a couple of hours, we have a practice
Speaker 1: and we have another game tomorrow. Game two is tomorrow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we play a game one yesterday, we play game
Speaker 1: two tomorrow. Or Jimmy Lapage, who Kim Cohen famously passed
Speaker 1: on in the draft, Jimmy never forgets and is now
Speaker 1: coaching in the NBA G League of all places. You know,
Speaker 1: what I try to do is just with with our
Speaker 1: young guys and the GI League, just try to help
Speaker 1: them understand what it means to be a pro and
Speaker 1: the type of work habits that you need to have
Speaker 1: and really develop, you know, a routine for yourself, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, coming in early, staying late, and doing all
Speaker 1: the things that are prod used to give them the
Speaker 1: best chance. Because I know their goal ultimately is to
Speaker 1: be in the NBA, and so whatever we can do
Speaker 1: for them the GI League to build those habits to
Speaker 1: help them work on their game improve growth. We're everywhere.
Speaker 1: The Filipino basketball diaspora is incredibly impressive and we're gaining power. Well.
Speaker 1: The one thing, the last infinity stone that we need
Speaker 1: is that Filipino board and raised basketball player. But everything
Speaker 1: else we've we've got it covered. Yeah, I mean, and
Speaker 1: we still rep hard. Jalen Greene and Jordan Clarkson like
Speaker 1: they we'll take the happies for right now. I also
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the conversation with Andy Thompson and the story
Speaker 1: he told us about the bus trip, Like that was
Speaker 1: that stopped me in my tracks. Literally, we came out,
Speaker 1: they shook our hands, We gave them some high fives.
Speaker 1: There was no autographs. They just wanted to meet us.
Speaker 1: Coach said okay, now go get back on the bus.
Speaker 1: And we got back on the bus visibly shaken, and
Speaker 1: we didn't say anything. The coaches got back on the
Speaker 1: bus and we drove away. And to this day I
Speaker 1: still think I am so fortunate that these were like
Speaker 1: thumb wife fans are not fans of Janet buy or
Speaker 1: Toyota or somebody else. What a roller coaster of emotions.
Speaker 1: What was your teammate thinking And did any of your
Speaker 1: teammates who were local, did they say anything to you
Speaker 1: before you got off the bus. Yeah, when everybody finally
Speaker 1: felt comfortable enough to talk, they said, you guys are
Speaker 1: very lucky because normally they take you and they hold
Speaker 1: up of hostage. Because the United States at that time,
Speaker 1: when they had a policy, they wouldn't negotiate, and so
Speaker 1: it was just like once again after the fact, when
Speaker 1: you when you get back to your hotel room, we
Speaker 1: still had a game to play. To this day, I
Speaker 1: know I have some photographs of where we played, but
Speaker 1: I don't remember anything about the game because my mind
Speaker 1: was still on the back of that bus and in
Speaker 1: that in that jungle. And when you get back to
Speaker 1: your room and at night, then you lay down in
Speaker 1: your bed, that's when you realize we definitely dodged a bullet,
Speaker 1: no question. That to me was a standout interview and
Speaker 1: story from the podcast. I also loved learning about just
Speaker 1: the style uh in the PBA because it does it
Speaker 1: reminds me of my scrappy style in middle school. I
Speaker 1: can't believe I continue to talk about my middle school career.
Speaker 1: I am the saddest person alive. That was my last bit.
Speaker 1: That was my last bit, being able to visit your
Speaker 1: middle school greatness. That and Raymond Townsend paving the way
Speaker 1: for all basketball players with Filipino heritage, and him also
Speaker 1: being like a top five just nicest person ever in
Speaker 1: the world. Yes, it touches your heart to know that
Speaker 1: these people are so proud and you know, my legacy
Speaker 1: was forty two years ago but these people act like
Speaker 1: it was yesterday, so you can imagine. I'm so humble
Speaker 1: and grateful and I think Jesus every day for the
Speaker 1: blessed life that He's given me through this wonderful game
Speaker 1: of basketball. That and revisiting your middle school three year
Speaker 1: MVP run are tied for me for I guess best
Speaker 1: experiences of this podcast. Sorry sorry Raymond, but you know
Speaker 1: three time MVP over here Chicago's finest. Here you go,
Speaker 1: here you go, hub in the building, humum fume um.
Speaker 1: But it was a pleasure and just an absolute wonder
Speaker 1: to be able to spend this time with Eunico and
Speaker 1: let's let's do it again. Can't believe it's done.