WEBVTT - Soap 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.480 Hey, everybody, This is Robert and this is Joe, and 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:08.239 we have an announcement to make about the Invention podcast. Uh. 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.680 This episode about the invention of soap is actually going 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.880 to be the last episode of Invention that is going 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:19.119 to be published in the Invention Feed for the foreseeable future. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:21.840 That's right now. This does not mean that Robert and 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.920 I are done doing episodes about the history of inventions. 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:30.480 Those episodes will continue on the feed of our other podcast, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.519 not not for the moment, regularly on Mondays, but they 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.879 will be part of our regular rotation of topics that 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.400 come up as we publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays in 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.559 the Stuff to Blow Your Mind feed. So this episode 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.200 is also going to be a regular episode of Stuff 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.479 to Blow Your Mind, but it'll be about an invention. Uh. 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.360 This is how Robert and I decided we could keep 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.880 the spirit of Invention going, uh while while doing our 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:56.720 other show, Stuff to Blow Your Mind, and at the 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.480 same time retiring the Invention Feed. And Robert, I gotta say, 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.600 I'm sorry to see this feed go. I have had 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.119 a lot of fun doing this show with you. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.280 I have as well. And I also really I think 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.520 we have a pretty awesome logo for the show, and 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:11.760 uh and uh. I mean, but that's the thing is, 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.759 like we love Invention enough that it's not actually going away. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.360 It's actually going to just become a part of Stuff 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.880 to blow your Mind, and in a sense, really stuff 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.759 to blow your mind will re absorb the invention and 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.200 techno history based content that was a part of that 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.360 show before we kind of splintered off some of our 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.560 topics into this secondary show Invention. So it's not so 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.480 much as uh, something is going away, but something is 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.280 being reabsorbed back into the mother show, back into the 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.600 mother thing. That's a good way of putting it. So 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.640 what does this mean practically for you the listener of Invention, Well, 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.960 I would say, first of all, uh, there's no need 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.000 to unsubscribe from this feed. In fact, I would recommend 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.240 if if you don't mind staying subscribe, this probably a 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.280 good thing to do. This is a place where we 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.240 can let you know about future developments. If anything is 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.320 ever happening with our shows in the future, we could 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.920 probably publish updates and get in touch with you here. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.120 So if you want to stay subscribed, I think that's 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.840 a great idea. The other thing is, of course, please 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.600 go subscribe to our other shows, Stuff to Blow your 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:14.840 Mind if you were not subscribed. Now that is our 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.280 that that is the show we've done for years before 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.079 we ever started Invention. At its heart, Stuff to Blow 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.200 Your Mind is a science podcast, but we take a 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.680 very innerdisciplinary approach, so we we look at science topics 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:30.440 through the lens of through of history, mythology, literature, you know. 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:32.440 We we kind of throw everything into a big cross 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.520 disciplinary blender there. And so of course invention is one 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.079 of the things that goes in that slurry. That's right. 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.560 And one other note that I would have for everybody 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.760 is if you if you feel a sense of anger 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.639 over this, if you, if you have your you have 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.919 a temptation to lash out about the the end of invention. Here, 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:51.959 we just want to remind what we want to urge 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.720 everybody that this was a mutual decision between uh myself 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.320 and Joe and our corporate overlords. Uh So no body 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.800 was nobody was forced to do anything here. If this 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:07.800 just seemed like the best practical decision moving into the future, yeah, totally. 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.040 But as we said, we're not done with inventions. They 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.680 will continue to pop up from time to time in 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:14.640 the topics we choose for Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:16.720 So if you're not subscribed to Stuff to Blow your Mind, 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.240 go subscribe now Stuff to Blow your Mind. We think 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.919 you'll love it anyway. Uh, and and you will definitely 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.200 love the Invention episodes. Yeah, when you can find that 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.280 wherever you get your podcast. So, without further ado, let's 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.440 dive into this new episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:37.040 The Invention of Soap. Welcome to stot to Blow Your 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:46.680 Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.200 to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.920 I'm Joe McCormick and Robert I am ready to lather up. 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.040 That's right. Uh. In this episode, we are going to 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.440 be exploring un invention. Uh. We're getting into a little 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.640 techno history here, but we're going to considering soap. Soap 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.800 has been on everyone's mind a bit more these days, 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:08.440 I think. Uh, this is actually a topic that was 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:13.120 suggested to us for our our previous side show, Invention, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.280 which is now back a part of Stuff to Blow 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.960 Your Mind itself. Um, soap is something that is I 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:25.080 think easy to take for granted, uh, given normal situations, right, 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.440 Soap is just the thing that you uh, you know, 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.640 speedily wash your hands with, you know, add a little 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.599 bit of a nice smell, take some of the grease 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.040 or grit off, so you can move on to something else. 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:36.720 Perhaps give you a little bit of peace of mind 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.720 before you do things like prepare food or put your 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.560 contacts in. But lately it is, of course, has been 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.560 stressed how essential it is via hand washing in the 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.080 prevention of the spread of COVID nineteen. All right, so 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.880 let's let's talk about soap. Soap is of course a 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.560 human invention. But did we ever get by without it? 0:04:57.600 --> 0:04:59.800 I mean, it's hard for us to imagine life without soap. 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.279 It's specially now because it aids us in the cleaning 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.120 of our bodies. It also helps us so via you know, 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:08.080 detergents in the cleaning of our garments. We use uh 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.960 soaps to clean you know, objects and surfaces as well. 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.560 It helps maintain basic hygiene, It prevents the spread of disease, 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.640 and it can also impart a pleasing odor. You know, 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.039 what's not to love about soap? And how on earth 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.560 can we get by without it? Now? Obviously we can 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:27.040 look to the animal world for plenty of examples. Uh, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.880 but but a few common examples do tell us a lot. Birds, 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.920 for instance, clean themselves with their beaks, and they use 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.440 water or dust to bathe themselves. Uh. Cats, dogs and 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.520 cows are frequent examples of animals that look themselves to 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:44.640 clean themselves. And uh, let's consider a few terms to 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.120 put things in perspective as well. We're talking about grooming, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.840 which is a comfort behavior that is the practice of 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:55.159 cleaning the body surface, including the cleaning and oiling of 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.040 feathers with the bill or of the hair with the tongue. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.320 And there are a few road categories here. There's first 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.279 of all, auto grooming, that is an animal's grooming of 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.960 itself and you know, ultimately that's what's going on when 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:10.640 you take a shower in the morning or in the 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.159 evening or whenever or both, you know, go go out. Uh. 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.480 There's also all of grooming, which is an animals grooming 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.240 of another for parental or social reasons. Yeah, and uh. 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.640 One thing that's very interesting is the the array of 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.520 social dynamics that seem to take place through grooming behaviors, 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:33.159 like say, primate grooming behaviors where primates will sometimes pick 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.479 pick little knits and bits and bugs out of each 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.560 other's hair as a way to to manage and mediate 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.520 social bonds within groups. Yeah, it becomes a part of 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:48.400 the society for creatures like that and for creatures like us. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.520 So all of this amounts to a general physical removal 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.880 of particles scraped away, picked away, washed away. And there 0:06:55.960 --> 0:07:00.760 may be bacteria sidal properties as well, you know, particularly 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.760 you'll see something there's some studies about saliva m into 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.599 what degree they may be able to kill bacteria. But this, 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.600 this basic removal can deal with everything from sand and 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.640 dirt to dead skin cells, loose hairs, loose feathers, and 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.200 like you mentioned, actual exo parasites, and of course in 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.440 cleansing oneself, it's helpful to use nails and claws and 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.640 beaks and all these these various uh um, you know, 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.360 bio tools that we've already mentioned. But in dealing with 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.400 with humans, in dealing with Homo sapiens and some of 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.320 Homo sapiens closest kin, we of course have to get 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.360 into tool use, We get into the techno history of 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.920 the situation here. And one of the sources I was 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.680 looking at for this episode was soaps from the Phoenicians 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.800 to the twentieth century. A historical review by roth at 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.280 All came out in nine They point out a few 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:00.120 key examples from quote the pre soap era. This is 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.800 an area you might think of as the squeegee era, 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.080 you know, where there we did have some tools. We 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.040 we probably were interested in cleaning ourselves, but we didn't 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.040 have soap yet. So what can you do? Maybe you 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.840 can kind of squeege your skin with a with a 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.960 little bit of abrasive action. Yeah, And indeed, uh, Neolithic 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:22.280 people apparently used flint scrapers to clean themselves, a basic 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.800 way to remove dirt, grime, dead skin cells. You know, 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.400 why depend on just those those So I'm guessing horrid 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.719 fingernails that you have, uh, during the Neolithic period when 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.720 you can also start using some some some tools. You're 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.240 using tools to scrape other things. You need a good 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.959 scraping as well, So grab some flint and get in there. Now. 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.440 I really hope that they were not using the same 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:49.280 hand axes, by faces or pieces of flint to process 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.480 animal carcasses and then to scrape their own skin clean. 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.920 But I have to guess there probably was a bit acrossover. Yeah, 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:01.600 it seems inevitable, it doesn't it. But so the use 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.120 of a kind of a bit of mechanical leverage some 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:09.319 some scraping with a tool did not stop with Neolithic 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.679 or Stone Age people. This actually did continue into classical civilizations, 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.360 like the Romans did something similar yeah, before the Age 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.559 of Plenty in the first centuries. See the Greeks and 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.320 Romans depended on what they had vapor baths. They had, 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:25.320 you know, an extravagant bath system for sure, but also 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:30.160 they would scrub and scrape the skin with a strigle 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.160 or skin scraper made of bone, ivory or metal. And 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.400 this basically what it sounds like. You get the You 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.560 get the skin itself, you know, nice and moist from 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.160 a bath or perhaps via the application of an oil, 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.719 and then you can start scraping away and remove that, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.360 you know, that outer layer of grime, dead skin, etcetera. 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.680 I guess some people still use something like this to 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.240 cleanse themselves. I mean in terms of just dealing with 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:01.000 our skin. I mean, I know, of instance that just 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.360 going to the y m c A, I'll hear some 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.760 of the the older gentleman in the locker room. Uh, 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:08.720 they would talk of ways that they would deal with 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.160 the like the thickened callouses on their feet, and some 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.720 of the sometimes bad advice they would give each other 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.760 would involve essentially scraping away the skin, generally with with 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:25.600 tools and implements that were not designed for that purpose. Wait, 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.040 it sounds like you've got a specific tool in mind, 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.400 or they like using a food processor blade or what. Um, well, 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.640 one was definitely there was a guy that was telling 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:35.120 me what you need to do is you need to 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.960 get yourself safety raiser and then remove some of the 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.640 safety features and then you can just you can, you know, 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.720 scrape away some skin, uh, which sounds like a bad 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.640 idea and I do not recommend anyone do that. Another 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.000 person said, what you need to do is you need 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:50.920 to get one of these and he held up um 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.760 uh oh, well, what's the what do you call these? 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.920 It's the it's for the grating of say ginger for 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.480 culinary purposes. Micro yes, a microplane. Uh so he held 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.679 microphlne and he says, you can get one of these 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.880 at bed, bath and beyond. It works great. Again, I 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.320 would not recommend using that on in your body. I 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:16.440 would recommend getting a sanding or scrubbing implement that is 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.800 designed for use on the skin and use on the feet. 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.480 What you do is you get a stick blender and 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.000 oh man, but that's not to say that that other 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.239 folks weren't engaging in the use of essentially chemical approaches 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.679 to the cleaning of the skin. The ancient Egyptians made 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.320 use of soda to clean their skin as well as 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.640 to treat diseases of the skin. Okay, so soda is 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.920 interesting here because that suggests we're we're getting a little 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.120 bit closer to soap like territories. This will make more 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.520 sense when we explain soapen a bit. But but soda, 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.680 of course is an alkali. It's a it's a base, 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:58.160 and in certain combinations, in the presence of fats and water, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.760 this can actually have a lather rings soap like effect. Yeah. So, 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.560 so this is a nice ancient example. We'll get into 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.120 some more in a bit. But oh and then another 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.959 example that growth at all point point out fifth century BC. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.880 During this time period, Herodotus wrote of the priest physicians 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.280 of the Temple of Ammon at Karnak in Egypt during 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:24.160 the reign of Ramesses. This would have been uhleven thirteen 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:28.640 through ten five BC. And Herodotus stated that they would 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.760 quote bathe in cold water twice a day and twice 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:36.360 a night and cleansed their mouths with natron. Now, natron 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.520 was a mixture of sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate. That's 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.920 what you call mummy mouth. Yeah. Uh. One of my 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.280 favorite books on the history of hygiene is a book 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.600 titled Clean by Virginia Smith, and in that she points 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.080 out that that natron was dissolved in water to clean 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.640 the body, to clean clothes, furniture, and sometimes it could 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.720 be ignited with incense as well. Priests would chew it 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.360 and drink it as a as a cleansing as well. 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.679 So it wasn't just used in the creation of mummies. 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.360 It was like, in a way, this kind of uh, 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.800 this kind of posh, high status chemical for for all 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:14.800 the you know that all your hygiene needs in a 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:19.240 way and be like you've got to have that mummy mouth. Yeah. Now. 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.040 I think one of the facts that we're getting into 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.200 here with especially within with an atron example, is that 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:29.560 we're dealing with medicine. We're dealing with medicinal uses. And 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.520 that's one of the amazing things is when you start 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.480 looking at some of the early history of what we 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:39.240 think of as soap. You're often dealing more specifically with 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.960 with medical practices and sort of the magic of early 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.760 medicine as opposed to just sort of the like, we 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.640 don't think about soap as medicine, we don't think about 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.840 hygiene as medicine. But it is, I mean, it is 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:57.560 preventative medicine. Uh, you know, you know, quite literally, yeah, totally. Now. 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.880 Other BC treatments include did um using olive oil on 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:03.760 the skin. I mentioned that already is something that you 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.640 know it might apply before scraping, clay and plant ashes 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.200 as well. During the Biblical period, we see a form 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:14.200 of soap made from plant derivatives, generally from salty regions 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.680 where the plants gathered potash and soda, and the Bible 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:24.960 actually mentions the washing materials bore, bore it, and shilig. Acadian, Syrian, 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.600 and Arabic languages all include words specific words for soap 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.400 producing plants. Plants that would be you know, would definitely 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.840 become important later on, if not then in the creation 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.480 of these soap like elements, and plant ash and clay 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:43.160 were also widely used in the cultures of India. Peru, Chili, 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.880 and Angola. Well, maybe this is a good place to 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.520 stop and explain how soap actually works. But should we 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.200 take a break first, We should, It will be right back, 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.680 all right, we're back, So it's time to talk about 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:03.280 how soap actually gets things clean. So in a lot 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.760 of cases, of course, we all know that simply washing 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.120 with water can be very effective. If you don't have soap, 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.520 you might as well wash your hands with water because 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.120 that gets a lot of stuff off. Maybe not everything, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.720 but a lot, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean it is again, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.760 it's it's often poorly understood by the people who use it, 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.760 but it's highly effective. And actually, there was a very 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.200 interesting passage about what I'm about to talk about in 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.960 the book Until the End of Time by Brian Green, 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.240 a recent guest on Stuff to Blow your Mind. The 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.240 passage highlights the fact that water is good for washing 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.600 things much for the same reason that it is the 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.160 basis for life on Earth. And if if that doesn't 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:43.920 make any sense, stick with me for a second. Here, 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.000 so Green is talking about the chemical properties of water. 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.840 He's talking about the fact that water is a polar molecule, 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.400 so you've got a one atom of oxygen with two 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:58.280 atoms of hydrogen. They're bonded together. And in this molecule 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.280 there is a net negative charre urge at one end, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.880 the end where the oxygen atom is, and then there's 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.800 a net positive charge at the other ends where where 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.560 the two hydrogen atoms are. And this difference in electrical 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.640 charge across the length of the water molecule is essential 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.440 to its function in the world of biochemistry. It's what 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.440 makes water the molecule of life in a universe of death. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.240 And so that this distribution of electrical charge across the 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.240 length of the molecule means that water can dissolve almost anything, 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.480 not anything, but almost anything. The oxygen end will bind 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.640 to almost anything that has even a slight positive charge, 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.400 and the hydrogen tips at the other end will bind 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.920 to almost anything that has even a slight negative charge. 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.560 And Green rights that quote. In tandem, the two ends 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.560 of a water molecule act like charged claws that pull 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.680 apart almost anything that's submerged for a sufficient time. So 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.320 if you are if you're like a hardcore soaker when 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.600 it comes to cleaning the dishes, uh, this is this 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.159 is a this is a ammunition for your defense against 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.919 the scrubbers. Oh of course, yeah, I mean just sitting 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.880 something in water, Yeah, it will tend to just pull 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.080 things out. And it's funny because water is is the 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.000 fluid of life. We we think of it as not 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:20.199 something that's uh, you know that rips everything apart the 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.040 molecular level. We think of it as this you know, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.240 this this cleansing, healing kind of liquid, which of course 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.440 it is to us. We need it to live. But chemically, 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.919 what it does and the reason why it's so useful 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.520 to our bodies is that it has this power to dissolve, 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.879 and so in dissolving things. Green gives the example of 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.960 table salt, a very very common example. Table salt is 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.440 known chemically as sodium chloride. Sodium chloride is a molecule. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.879 It's made from one atom of sodium and one atom 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.439 of chlorine. And when you drop crystals of table salt 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.119 into water, the water molecules immediately start ripping them apart 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.200 and dissolving them. So the oxygen in the H two 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.359 O snags the positively charged sodium ions, and the hydrogen 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.160 tips of the H two A molecule grab the negatively 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.000 charged chlorine ions. But it's not just table salt. Water 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.560 works this way for a huge number of chemicals and substances, 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.560 and it's the reason water is good for washing things. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.600 Substances previously stuck to the outside of your skin or 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.480 to the outside of a dish or a pan, are 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.560 grabbed and dissolved by the water and carried away when 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.320 the water runs off of you or off of the dish, 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.520 onto the ground, downstream in a river, or down the drain. 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.280 And here's where things get really interesting. Uh here, I 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.080 just want to quote directly from Brian Green's book Until 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.720 the End of Time. Quote well, beyond its utility and 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.600 personal hygiene, Water's capacity to grab hold of and ingest 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:51.879 substances is indispensable to life, sell interiors or miniature chemistry labs, 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.440 whose workings require the rapid movement of a vast collection 0:18:55.480 --> 0:19:00.720 of ingredients, nutrients in, waste out, commingling of chemicals to 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:05.480 synthesize substances required for cellular function, and so on. Water 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:11.000 makes this possible. Water, constituting some seventy of a cell's mass, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:16.760 is life's ferrying fluid. Nobel Laureate Albert's zent Georgy summarized 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:21.000 it eloquently. Quote water is life's matter and matrix, mother 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.160 and medium. There is no life without water. Life could 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.000 leave the ocean when it learned to grow a skin, 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.280 a bag in which to take the water with it. 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.560 We are still living in water, having the water now inside. 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:40.000 Oh wow, that's beautiful. Yeah, sloshy water bag creatures that 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:44.520 we are. It's true, we're bladders of life waddling around 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.640 in the desert above. But so this is amazing. It's 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.520 basically the same reason that water is good for washing 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.399 your hands, and the reason that astrobiologists are looking for 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.679 signs of water on Mars. But while water is an 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.159 amaze seeing solvent and good for washing all kinds of 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:04.720 stuff off your hands, there are some cases where it's 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.919 hygiene powers fall short. You of course know about this 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.359 if you ever tried to use water alone to wash 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.000 an oily, greasy substance off your hands or off of 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.000 a dish in the kitchen. So so you've got a 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.800 frying pans covered in you know, residue of butter or something, 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.720 and you try to run tap water over it to 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.040 wash it off. Does it work? Of course? Not right, 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:30.800 Like the water will maybe dislodge little bits of the butter, residue, 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.680 but mostly the oil on the surface of the pan 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.399 will continue to stick and the water will kind of 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.919 rush overtop it, or at best it will sort of 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.639 push waves of the oil around through force. Now I 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.080 do use that as an example because I know everybody 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.520 has done it. But if you remember from our fat 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.520 Bergs episode, please do not wash oil and grease down 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:52.960 the drain lest you begin to make a soap dragon 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.840 down the sewers below us. But here's another example I'm 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.920 sure everybody will be able to identify with Robert he 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.919 ever put lotion on your hands, like a sort of 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.879 oil based or kind of greasy lotion, and then you 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.000 need to wash your hands. You go and wash your 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.360 hands with just water without using soap. What happens there? Oh? 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.160 You just you get with these least slippery hands. It's 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:19.520 like now, it's like lotion plus one, right exactly. The 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.440 lotion does not get washed off. You have to use 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.760 soap in order to get lotion grease off of your hands, 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.280 and your hands will stay greasy no matter how much 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.960 water you run over them, right, yeah, Like yeah, I 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.439 mean obviously there's you know, a certain amount of physical 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:35.840 removal as possible generally, what I do is like I 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.320 I washing off my hands real quick and then realize, oh, 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.040 I had a lotion on and now I kind of 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.840 have to use like a hand towel that to physically 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:46.760 remove some of the lotion water mixture. Right. Uh So, 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:51.040 water by itself fails at washing away lipids, lipids or 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:55.600 a class of substances including oils, fats, waxes, and steroids. 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.560 And this is because simply oil and water do not 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.720 mix easily, which is in turn due to the chemical 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.440 properties of the two substances. So we were talking about 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.880 how water is a polar molecule. It's got different electric 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:11.480 charges at each end. And because of these different electric 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:15.120 charges at each end of the water molecule, water links 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:18.679 up with itself very easily through a series of connections 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.240 called hydrogen bonds. So you can kind of think of 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.880 the analogy of legos. Right, the top of one block 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:28.000 just very easily snaps onto the bottom and the next. Now, oils, 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.120 on the other hand, are made up of non polar molecules, 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.359 so they do not easily break through these bonds and 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.680 link up with water molecules to form new compounds or 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.560 dissolve into the water. So you say, so you take 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:43.359 a jar and you put some oil and some water 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.399 in the jar together, and then you shake it up 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:48.960 really hard. If if you shake the jar like that, 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.879 droplets of oil will be dispersed by force throughout the water. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:57.119 But these molecules of oil will after So first they 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:00.040 will disrupt the hydrogen bonds between the water molecule, so 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.639 they'll get kind of dispersed throughout, but they won't be 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.200 able to form bonds with the water themselves. And instead, 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:10.240 the disrupted water molecules I was reading about this, they 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:15.840 they form a kind of molecular cage around the oil molecules. Uh. 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.000 And this cage is this kind of almost crystalline type 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.680 structure known as a class rate. And this cage actually 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:26.800 represents a temporary decrease in the entropy of the water. 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.800 So by forming these orderly structures around these droplets of 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:35.240 oil suspended in the water, you are decreasing entropy. And 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.199 we know that the universe does not tolerate decreases an 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:42.119 entropy forever. The universe always wants to increase the entropy again. 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.680 So gradually the mixed mass of water and oil manages 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:51.280 to increase its entropy by spontaneously bumping around and rearranging 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:55.439 until the oil molecules join up with one another into 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.679 a solid mass and separate from the water to float 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:01.399 on its surface. And of course, the reason that oil 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:03.679 floats on top of water when it's separated is that 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:07.320 oil is less dense than water. But for hygiene purposes, 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:09.280 I guess all you have to remember is the short 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:12.800 version that oil doesn't naturally dissolve in water like so 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.919 many other substances do. And this is why water alone 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.719 is not very good at dissolving and washing away oil 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:21.920 or fat based substances. And this, of course is where 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.920 soap comes in. Here's where we all know from experience 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:26.639 you can't get the water, you can't get the lotion 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:28.520 off your hands or the grease off your hands with 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:31.040 water alone, but if you use some soap, it comes 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:33.720 right off. Another example that comes to mind here is 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.680 of course, with our hair. I think if you've ever 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:42.160 experimented with just rigorously shampooing versus going no pooh as 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:45.280 they say it, if they can't um that, you can 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:49.119 definitely observe this in action. Um, so I feel the 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:51.640 oils in your hair? Yeah? Like like I will generally 0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:55.120 go no shampoo for um, for like a few weeks 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:58.600 at a time, and I will my hair doesn't. It 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:00.840 varies from person to person, you depending on you know, 0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:04.359 your particular hair and in a particular oil and how 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:06.639 it builds up. But with my own hair, like a 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:08.920 little bit of oil will build up in my hair 0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:11.680 will will look tolerable and um, you know, I won't 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:13.360 have to do much with it. But then eventually I'll 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:15.600 come a point where I start feeling a little oily, 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:18.960 and therefore I bust out the shampoo and when I do, 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:21.600 all the oil is gone. And now and then I 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:24.520 just look like like a troll doll. You know, I said, 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:26.560 Now there's no oil in my hair at all, and 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:30.119 it's just this poufy blonde mess. But I bring this up. 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:32.399 There's just an example of you know, this is a 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.680 way to observe that water, even a lengthy shower, a 0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:39.680 lengthy blast of of hot, steamy water, is not going 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:42.560 to get that oil out of your hair. Um, even 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:44.960 if it's just day after day, twice a day, even 0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:49.960 uh not until you add that magical soap. Right, Yeah, 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:52.560 the oil just does not come away in the water. 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:56.400 So soap is made by classically it's made by combining 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.200 a fatty acid such as an oil or an animal 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.280 fat you know you can use like a animal tallow 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:06.119 or something with an alkali such as you would naturally find, 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:09.240 say in the ashes from a wood fire, or today 0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:13.040 in a strong synthesized base like a lie uh so. 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:17.359 At the molecular level, soap is a pin shaped molecule 0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:22.040 that plays well with both water and lipids. Its tail 0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:27.240 is hydrophobic, meaning it doesn't like water, It avoids water molecules, 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:30.520 and it forms a bond with fats and oils. Meanwhile, 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:34.200 its head is hydrophilic, meaning it likes water. It bonds 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:37.520 with water easily, and it becomes suspended in a solution 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:39.800 of water and gets washed away when the water is 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:43.400 rinsed off. Now, often what happens after a good lathering 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:47.040 is that soap molecules will form a kind of bubble 0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:51.280 structure called a mice cell around an oily contaminant, with 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:55.720 their hydrophobic tails pointing inward and and and snagging onto 0:26:55.760 --> 0:27:00.119 the trapped particle, and their hydrophilic heads pointing outward and 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:03.040 being carried around by the water. So you can imagine 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:07.840 each soap molecule as a kind of a combination grasping 0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:10.800 claw at one end and parachute on the other end. 0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:13.960 One end grabs hold of the contaminant and the other 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:17.800 end catches the fluid current and is easily carried away. 0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:20.960 But I should add that the hygienic properties of soap 0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:25.119 don't end there, just at the ability to uh latch 0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:27.560 onto these lipid molecules and carry them away in the 0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:30.720 flow of water. In addition to making it easy to 0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:33.560 wash lipid based dirt off of surfaces like your hands, 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:38.880 soap is also directly lethal to many kinds of germs, 0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:41.960 including many kinds of viruses and bacteria. A lot of 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:47.000 viruses and bacteria, including the novel coronavirus responsible for COVID nineteen. 0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:51.879 They're protected by an outer layer that can be disrupted 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:56.480 by soap. The fat loving ends of soap molecules kind 0:27:56.480 --> 0:28:00.479 of jam themselves into the lipid by layer on the 0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:03.359 outside of the virus. I've seen it compared by some 0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:08.080 experts to like little chemical crowbars, just stabbing into the 0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:12.320 lipid outer membrane of the of the virus and breaking 0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:15.359 that outer membrane up. And essentially what this does is 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:18.480 it disembowels the virus, so it's guts spill out all 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:21.520 over the place and then they get washed away harmlessly 0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.560 and my cells whenever you rense your hands. So as 0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:27.000 an added benefit, the soap not only makes it much 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:30.120 easier to get these uh, these sticky little germs off 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:33.359 of your hands, it also just kills lots of germs. 0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:36.920 Not every germ is is killed by soap, but lots are, 0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:40.000 including the coronavirus. Yeah, I think it was. Maybe it 0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:42.840 was the growth article that I referred to earlier. The 0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:45.280 author's pointed out that you know we have this this 0:28:45.600 --> 0:28:48.920 you know this safe mundane, this tame feeling about our soap. 0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:53.320 Soap is gentle um. But for most most organisms that 0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:56.040 we're dealing with, soap is a destroyer. It is just 0:28:56.160 --> 0:29:00.720 a a a brutal and destructive weapon. Well, yeah, you 0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:03.640 don't want to have your your lipids dissolved, and hey, 0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:05.520 you know what, you can actually start to feel a 0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:08.800 bit of this yourself. Uh if you say, if you 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:12.000 have washed your hands too much, if you've been like 0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:14.560 cooking all day or something, and you're repeatedly having to 0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:16.400 wash your hands over and over when you go in 0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:20.440 between tasks, you may start to notice with with really 0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:24.040 frequent hand washing, that the cumulative effects of soap on 0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.280 your skin do become abrasive. Right, yeah. Yeah, if you 0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:29.960 say helped your husband kill a king or something to 0:29:30.000 --> 0:29:32.480 that effect, and washing your hands a lot, yeah, you'll 0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:36.240 notice that this is starting to irritate the outer layer 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:38.840 of my body. I mean, I think a lot of 0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:42.080 what's going on there is that is that natural lipids 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.080 in your skin, oils that are a healthy part of 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:48.120 what your skin normally does to protect itself, are removed. 0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:50.680 Also when you wash your hands like that. Uh, and 0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:53.200 if you just keep removing all that stuff, it can 0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:56.000 kind of dry your skin out and irritate it. But 0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:59.040 I do want to say one more thing about hand 0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:01.760 washing with so which is that I looked into this 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:05.600 the question of time, because we've all been told a 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:07.520 bunch of times. Now you know you need to wash 0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:11.240 your hands with soap for at least twenty seconds, right, 0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:14.000 And maybe a lot of people think, I know, way, 0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:16.320 you actually need to do it for twenty whole seconds, right. 0:30:16.360 --> 0:30:18.960 I mean you just told me that that soap. Soap 0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:22.080 can be lethal too. Two lots of germs. So basically, 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:24.560 if you get soap all over your hands. You're good, right, 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:26.160 You just get the soap on there and then you 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:28.440 rinse it off, and then you should be fine. That 0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:31.000 that is not the case. It really does appear that 0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:34.520 time is a factor in allowing soap to do its work. 0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:37.320 I was looking at a couple of studies that seemed 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.840 to be an agreement that longer really is better, and 0:30:39.880 --> 0:30:43.080 the difference between twenty seconds of soapy washing and five 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:46.680 seconds of soapy washing is pretty huge. I love how, 0:30:46.800 --> 0:30:49.960 especially early on, to really get this message across. Uh, 0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:52.800 there are all these different versions of hey, you can 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:56.320 remember how long twenty seconds is by singing this song 0:30:56.440 --> 0:30:58.960 or this chorus from this song. My god, so many 0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:02.280 articles like this which it's like, is it that hard 0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:05.280 to know how long twenty seconds is? I know that 0:31:05.360 --> 0:31:07.960 was my my My initial thought was like, I don't 0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:10.000 really need to sing the Happy Birthday song to know 0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:12.000 how long twenty seconds is. I can just count to twenty. 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.160 But then I realized, well, no, this is this is 0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:16.200 as much about getting the message out and making the 0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:19.600 message more fun as anything, and if it helps in 0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:23.680 that regard, then yeah, let's let's keep reminding everybody which 0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:26.760 songs match up with twenty seconds. I like the way 0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:29.240 of doing it is like expressing it in terms of 0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:32.720 the units of Ronnie Cox's monologue at the end of 0:31:32.760 --> 0:31:35.880 Total recall, how many Ronnie Cox monologues do you need 0:31:35.920 --> 0:31:39.520 to do home in time for corn flakes? Is it 0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:42.120 a twenty second monologue? Or no? No, no, I don't 0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:44.160 know it actually, but I should time it out and 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:46.160 then you can know, like, Okay, I need to do 0:31:46.200 --> 0:31:48.239 it one and a half times, or just I need 0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:50.000 to go two thirds of the way through. I haven't 0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:53.280 done the math myself, but some some enterprising listener get 0:31:53.320 --> 0:31:57.360 on that. I bet Conner's monologue from Highlander two is 0:31:57.360 --> 0:32:01.440 about twenty seconds. Oh okay. Most people live a full 0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:04.440 measure of life, but most people just watch it slowly 0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:06.920 drip away. But if you can summon it all up 0:32:06.960 --> 0:32:11.080 at one time in one place, you can accomplish something glorious. 0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:14.680 What was that? Maybe? Yeah, I better do it twice 0:32:14.840 --> 0:32:18.200 just to be able to stay all right on that note, 0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:20.920 Let's take another break. But when we come back, we 0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:24.960 will dive back into the history of soap and feel 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:30.160 around in the darkness of history for its inventor. Thank you, 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:33.760 thank you. Alright, we're back all right, So we're trying 0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:36.800 to discuss now the question of who invented soap and 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:38.600 this is not going to be one of those cases 0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:41.800 where it was Jonathan Soap or Elizabeth Soap working in 0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:45.520 their their home laboratory. Uh, we don't know the actual 0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:48.680 inventor of soap, but we have some very interesting clues 0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:52.440 at a more sort of civilizational or cultural level about 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:56.760 wind soap entered the history of humanity. Yes, now, I 0:32:56.800 --> 0:32:58.920 love that you've brought up the idea, like the the 0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:02.000 handy and and just too good to be true idea 0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:04.880 of William Soap having invented soap or heated soap having 0:33:04.880 --> 0:33:08.040 invented soap, because the first example I want to talk 0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:10.440 about here is kind of a version of that. It 0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:12.920 is it does not seem to be a true account 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.760 of the history of soap. It is. It is too 0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:18.880 it is too perfect. And but it's the story origin 0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:23.000 story that is often repeated on say websites about soap, 0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:24.920 Like if there's a soap company and they have an 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:28.880 about page, they might soap facts. Yeah, you might run 0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:32.920 across this one, and that is that soap originates on 0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:36.680 the mountain of Sappo. Okay, tell me about Mount Sappo. Okay, 0:33:36.720 --> 0:33:38.840 that's that's Sappo s A p O. You know it 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:41.400 sounds like soap. We're already basically there. It's the same 0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:44.760 letters rearranged. So the story here and again you may 0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:47.640 have heard it, is that soap making began three thousand 0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:52.160 years ago on Mount Sappo near Rome. The ideas that 0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:56.000 animal sacrifices were made to the gods there, and streams 0:33:56.040 --> 0:33:59.840 of melted fat and ashes dribbled and dripped from the altar, 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:03.240 and this mixture made its way down into the to 0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:07.480 the clay ground beneath, and here washer women learned that 0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:12.360 the resulting substance animal fat, ash and some clay, it 0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:15.520 resulted in something that could be used in the cleaning 0:34:15.560 --> 0:34:19.000 of garments. This sounds like sort of like one of 0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:23.239 those like evolution explanation narratives that people sometimes come up with. 0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:25.839 It's not based on any evidence at all, but it's 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:28.360 just like, you know, one time there was a monkey 0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:30.680 and it and you know it needed a rock to 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:33.720 do this, and so this is what happened. The stories 0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:35.560 like this are fun to come up with because you 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:37.920 can try to imagine what's plausible. Though I think we 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:41.200 can interrogate the plausibility of this one based on things 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:45.160 we actually know about Roman sacrifices and stuff. But but 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:47.240 you can try to come up with a story about 0:34:47.239 --> 0:34:50.160 what's plausible, even if you don't have direct evidence for it. 0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:52.080 But coming up with a plausible story, as we know, 0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:55.120 does not mean that you've discovered where something actually came from. 0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:57.440 And in this case, we pretty much know this story 0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:00.280 is wrong. Right, Yeah, despite the fact that it's andy 0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:06.280 and it's it's clean. Basically a slice of false etymology here, 0:35:06.360 --> 0:35:09.680 but I guess the basically, yeah, when you start looking 0:35:09.680 --> 0:35:11.239 at the details of it, Yes, this is the sort 0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:13.359 of thing that could have happened. Yeah, this story, as 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:17.600 we've related it sounds plausible. But first of all, there's 0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:20.680 no mention of it in classical mythology. And it's also 0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:23.400 been pointed out that the manner of animal sacrifice that 0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:26.400 was practiced by the Romans would not have created vast 0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:28.960 amounts of soap um. And I believe a lot of 0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:30.600 this had to do with just like how much of 0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:32.680 the meat was actually like, how much of the the 0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:35.279 animal is actually burnt, and how much of it was 0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:38.560 sort of taken apart for other uses, Right, So the 0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:41.719 chemical reasoning here would be that you've got animal sacrifices, 0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:44.600 animal bodies being burned, and there's a lot of fat 0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:47.239 on them, and the fat is just rendering out as 0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:50.280 the animal is being burned, and it's pouring off into 0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:53.399 this area where there's also ash in the in the 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:56.080 pit from the fire where the animals being burned. And 0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:59.440 of course, as I mentioned earlier, soap is made generally 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:02.000 from a common a nation of lipids like animal fats, 0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:05.040 and a base like ashes. Ashes can work for that. 0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:08.760 So you combine fats and ashes and and and water, 0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:12.280 and then you can basically have something like a crude 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:15.400 or rudimentary soap. So you can imagine something like this happening. 0:36:15.600 --> 0:36:18.319 But one criticism I was looking at was that, uh, 0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:21.759 apparently in Roman animal sacrifices, you know, they take off 0:36:21.840 --> 0:36:24.239 most of the usable fat. It was like, it was 0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:26.960 like if you could, if you could do something with 0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:29.160 the fat, they weren't going to burn that on the altar. 0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:33.040 Yeah they were. They were too practical for that. Uh Yeah. Basically, 0:36:33.080 --> 0:36:36.279 this is an origin story, a proposed origin story for 0:36:36.360 --> 0:36:39.840 soap that would say that soap is essentially a byproduct. 0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:43.080 And I guess like basically you would need enough of 0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:46.440 that byproduct to be produced for people to realize that 0:36:46.520 --> 0:36:48.759 it had some sort of a useful property to it. 0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:53.640 Um Also, did we mention that there is no Mount Sappo, 0:36:53.080 --> 0:36:57.160 That there's no there's no Mount Sappo, so we can't 0:36:57.160 --> 0:37:00.200 even identify it on on a map, or again, there's 0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:03.440 no writings about it in the ancient traditions. So it 0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:07.799 seems that there's not much evidence to really back this up. 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:11.600 It seems to be an altogether invented origin story. Uh, 0:37:12.080 --> 0:37:15.279 perhaps even a straight up hoax. There's another reason, though, 0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:17.640 I think that's a very good argument that this is 0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:20.360 not actually the origin of soap, which is that we've 0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:23.239 got literary references to soap that we'll get to in 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:25.520 just a little bit that are actually older than this 0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:29.920 story alleges for the for the creation of soap. Yeah, exactly, 0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:31.439 And I think that's gonna be one of the key 0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:34.600 factors here. Now, I do have to say it's it's 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:39.040 certainly possible and within like generally within the history of 0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:43.080 of humanity that things get invented and reinvented, that the 0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:48.239 basic chemical properties in one like medicinal concoction in one culture. Uh, 0:37:48.280 --> 0:37:51.160 you know that it gets reinvented somewhere else, you know, 0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:54.640 accidentally or with some tinkering in another culture. So that 0:37:54.719 --> 0:37:56.880 sort of thing is still possible, and I guess we 0:37:56.920 --> 0:37:58.560 have to keep that in mind. But in terms of 0:37:58.560 --> 0:38:00.920 saying where did it come for, when was the first 0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:04.560 soap born to us? It definitely was not born on 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:08.000 this Mount Sappo three thousand years ago. Uh. Stuff that 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:12.160 we can pretty accurately say is soap predates it by 0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:15.000 quite a bit. Okay, I got a question. Yes, we 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:18.360 love to hear from Plenty on ancient substances. Does Plenty 0:38:18.360 --> 0:38:20.799 of the elder right at all of soap? Oh? He 0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:23.319 certainly does. Yeah. You know, you know Plenty is going 0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:26.000 to talk about soap if it if it is it 0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:30.239 all around. Now. He does not mention Mount Sappo, which 0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:32.840 I think is another uh, you know, key fact to 0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:35.319 keep in mind and certainly adds to our our heap 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:37.600 of evidence against the idea of that being an accurate 0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:40.760 story at all. But he does mention the word Sappo 0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:45.960 as something the Galls used in their hair. And indeed, 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:48.640 there is another story that you sometimes come across and 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:51.520 that's the idea that, uh, that that you had a 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:55.719 man in Gall discovering the properties of this sappo when 0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:59.000 his hair dressing of goat oil and beech tree ash 0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:02.840 got soaked in a rainstorm and formed a nice frothy lather. 0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:06.080 Now that that too, I don't know. That may be 0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:10.040 an example that's partially invented just because it's sounds. It's fun, right, 0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:12.879 It's like, oh, by accident, my hair treatment has turned 0:39:12.880 --> 0:39:16.239 into soap. But but soap does seem to come from 0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:20.280 either the gall world sappo or from the Germanic saipa 0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:24.719 based on the sources I was looking at. Um, there 0:39:24.719 --> 0:39:27.600 are a couple of authors, Conkole and rest Mussin, and 0:39:27.600 --> 0:39:30.360 I'm going to cite their full article, um, just in 0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:33.200 a little bit here. Uh. They mentioned that this soap 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:37.680 in particular was probably tinged with plants to dye hair, 0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:41.480 and this was then imported to Rome because Roman women 0:39:41.719 --> 0:39:45.200 really coveted what they described as red gold coloration of 0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:47.880 the hair. So we're imagining some sort of soap like 0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:51.799 hair treatment that that is used to impart die to 0:39:51.960 --> 0:39:55.799 human hair. And then yeah, it becomes a possible that 0:39:55.800 --> 0:39:58.680 people realize, oh, this actually can be used for cleaning 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:01.760 as well. Not to say this was the invention of soap, 0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:04.080 but this could be an example. You could. You can 0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:06.279 think of this as an example of the sort of 0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:10.280 the reinvention of soap or a particular substance becoming popular 0:40:10.600 --> 0:40:14.120 and it has soap like properties that are then exploited. Additionally, 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:19.120 the Greek physician Galen lived through either one or to 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:23.160 sixteen CE, wrote of soap as well, saying it worked 0:40:23.160 --> 0:40:25.600 as a better detergent than soda, and then it was 0:40:25.680 --> 0:40:28.960 made from fat mixed with lie and quicklime. And he 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:31.680 added that the best soap is Germanic because it is 0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:36.560 creamy and pure, but gall soap second best. Okay, here's 0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:39.160 a quote from Galen quote. All types of soap can 0:40:39.200 --> 0:40:42.600 severely loosen and remove all filth from the body and 0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:45.080 from clothing. You can also dry things out in the 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:47.960 same manner as soda or foam of soda and is 0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:51.759 put in caustics. But I should add it is not 0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:56.000 entirely clear that Gallon actually wrote this, as it could 0:40:56.000 --> 0:40:58.719 have been. We could have actually gotten this quote via 0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:05.000 pseudo Gallenic medieval handbooks. So uh so again potentially more 0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:08.000 misinformation about where soap comes from. There's something about so 0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:12.040 there's something about our need to explain the origin of 0:41:12.080 --> 0:41:15.560 such an an everyday substance and explain it with some 0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:18.279 sort of a novel, fun little story. Yeah, I wonder 0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:21.120 what's what is held in common by the types of 0:41:21.160 --> 0:41:23.719 inventions where you know, there are tons of inventions that 0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:25.839 we just don't know where they came from. And some 0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:29.160 of these get all these like, uh, these these false 0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:32.279 origin stories, and others don't. What What are the ones 0:41:32.320 --> 0:41:34.879 that get the false origin stories have in common? Are 0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:38.080 they just the ones that maybe children are most likely 0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:41.440 to wonder about and ask about. Yeah, where I was thinking, 0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:46.000 perhaps they're sort of sidebars, like soap is so important. 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:48.440 And yet at the same time, it's easy to imagine 0:41:48.480 --> 0:41:51.560 if one we're writing like you know, people like plenty did, 0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:53.880 if they were just writing about, you know, the general 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:56.640 history and state of the world. If there's writing about everything, 0:41:57.040 --> 0:41:59.799 you might be tempted to just sort of speed through 0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:02.280 the soap section and be like, uh, yeah, it sounds 0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:05.879 like it came from some some gallic hair treatments something 0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:09.480 that effect. But but I don't know, you know, perhaps 0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:12.000 the more has been written and said on this this 0:42:12.120 --> 0:42:17.200 aspect of of human curiosity, But whether or not that 0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:20.600 was actually a gallon that that we quoted. Their other 0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:24.080 Greek writers of the time did write about soap um 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:26.719 and we we see this with with Roman writers as well. 0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:29.840 Uh Plenty rights that soap is made from the ashes 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:31.920 of beech trees and goat fat, and that there are 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:35.279 two types, thick and liquid, both kinds used in by 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:39.439 a Germanic cultures. Plenty stated that the Phoenicians discovered soap 0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:43.200 making in he gave the rough data six b C. 0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:47.640 But when we actually look for the earliest evidence of 0:42:47.840 --> 0:42:51.120 an actual soap like material, it certainly takes us back 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:55.480 further than that. Okay, let's hear about it. So basically 0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:58.319 we can go back and we can look at Sumerian 0:42:58.400 --> 0:43:02.200 clay tablets that it date back to the third millennium 0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:06.799 BC in the hit Type capital of Bogskoi. And this 0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:09.160 decided both in that paper by roth at all that 0:43:09.200 --> 0:43:12.160 I already mentioned, as well as his paper by Conkal 0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:16.279 and Rasmussen titled an Ancient Cleaner Soap Production and Use 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:19.920 in Antiquity. This was published in Chemical Technology and Antiquity 0:43:20.120 --> 0:43:23.560 in two All right, so what is this Sumerian clay 0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:26.240 Tablet's say, how how do we know that it's talking 0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:30.920 about soap? It says with water, I bathed myself with soda. 0:43:31.000 --> 0:43:34.560 I cleansed myself with soda from a shiny basin. I 0:43:34.640 --> 0:43:38.120 purified myself with pure oil from the basin. I beautified 0:43:38.160 --> 0:43:43.480 myself with a dress of heavenly kingship. I clothed myself. Ah. So, 0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:46.040 you're getting all the elements of soap. They're right. You're 0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:49.560 getting water, you're getting the alkali and soda, and you're 0:43:49.560 --> 0:43:52.120 getting the oil when it says oil. So if you 0:43:52.680 --> 0:43:56.160 combine those things together, you can get a rudimentary form 0:43:56.200 --> 0:43:58.719 of soap. Yeah. And uh and this is from a 0:43:58.719 --> 0:44:01.600 Sumerian clay cylinder found during the excavation of the ancient 0:44:01.680 --> 0:44:06.200 city of Babylon from the R dynasty. Uh So it 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:09.959 is essentially sounds like a soap making process. Now, there's 0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:15.480 also a roughly b c E text concerning the washing 0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:19.560 of wool, but according to Concho and Rasmussen uh quote, 0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:22.680 details concerning the identity and contents of these tablets have 0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:25.800 not been reported. Like in all of this, I guess 0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:28.720 you know, we're dealing with the fact that the history 0:44:28.719 --> 0:44:31.319 of soap is difficult to uncover, and this is something 0:44:31.480 --> 0:44:33.759 that that's worth keeping in mind. Here we're dealing about 0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:38.719 finding written accounts of the physical soap, right, because you 0:44:38.760 --> 0:44:42.000 can't find fossil soap, right. Yeah. The authors here point 0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:44.240 out that that, first of all, ancient soap is difficult 0:44:44.280 --> 0:44:46.680 to study because it is organic and does not leave 0:44:46.760 --> 0:44:51.440 behind direct archaeological evidence. In addition, organic residues can simply 0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:56.279 undergo suppontification and become soap or soap like without any 0:44:56.400 --> 0:45:00.319 human chemistry actually interfering. So instead, the best we can 0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:02.640 hope for is a written record of it, especially in 0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:04.960 the form of a recipe, and in that we deal 0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:07.960 with all the normal problems of looking at the historical 0:45:08.000 --> 0:45:11.399 record to understand human history, because it's a question of 0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:14.440 what was actually recorded, and then what was recorded in 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:17.400 a way that that could survive, and then what actually 0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:22.360 did survive. Uh, you know the point about natural suppontification happening. 0:45:22.440 --> 0:45:24.520 This ties into something we've talked about on the podcast 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:26.960 a couple of times, I believe, such as like the 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:31.560 soap corpses. One very famous example is known as the 0:45:31.600 --> 0:45:35.440 soap Lady that's housed at the Mooder Museum in Philadelphia, 0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:39.280 which is what happens when people are buried in soil 0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:42.600 with a certain kind of soil chemistry and uh and 0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:45.600 the lipids, the fat layers around the outside of their 0:45:45.640 --> 0:45:50.160 body react with the chemicals in the soil to form 0:45:50.200 --> 0:45:53.400 a kind of in tumbment or encasement of soap around 0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:56.480 the body as it decomposes. Yeah, so that's yeah, that's 0:45:56.480 --> 0:45:59.359 an example there. Like nobody was making soap on purpose there, 0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:03.080 but sometimes soap happens. Likewise, nobody's nobody's trying to make 0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:08.840 soap in the sewers with that's right, with the soap dragons. Yeah, yeah, 0:46:08.840 --> 0:46:11.960 because yeah, you can imagine if potentially someone looking back 0:46:11.960 --> 0:46:14.200 and they were like, well they created this, the aliens 0:46:14.239 --> 0:46:17.200 come and they're like, they created this enormous system underground, 0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:20.319 and it's so purpose seemed to be the construction of 0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:23.600 massive pieces of soap. I mean, I guess that stuff 0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:26.879 isn't technically soap. I mean it has soap like qualities, 0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:30.239 but yeah, or I don't know, is it technically soap. 0:46:30.280 --> 0:46:33.160 I don't actually remember the answer to that question. It 0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:36.560 is soap like in some ways, at least now. Kunkle 0:46:36.640 --> 0:46:40.480 and Rasmussen. They they do point to this, this third 0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:46.040 dynasty of or that's account as being quote a detailed 0:46:46.040 --> 0:46:49.680 economic account of cloth manufacture, and this is what includes 0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:53.160 a recipe for an impure liquid soap made from oil 0:46:53.239 --> 0:46:56.319 and potash, and this is what he is generally and 0:46:56.360 --> 0:47:01.600 currently considered to be the oldest verified wreck of soap making. Now, 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:04.200 they point out that the soap is generally mentioned in 0:47:04.280 --> 0:47:09.440 connection with medical writings in Mesopotamian cultures, centering in on 0:47:09.600 --> 0:47:14.160 the diagnosis and prognosis of illnesses and the creation of 0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:19.520 herbal remedies that usually consist of a pharmacological ointment containing oil, 0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:24.600 plant matter, and various other substances. So they also point 0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:30.680 to a Sumerian pharmacological tablet from from Nippur that is 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:34.200 seemingly the oldest medical record of soap. But it's also 0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:39.400 kind of deconstructed soap because the quote unquote ailing oregon 0:47:39.840 --> 0:47:43.240 is washed with a special solution, then rubbed with oil, 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:45.560 and then covered with plant ash. So it's kind of 0:47:45.600 --> 0:47:51.000 like deconstructed Wait wait, wait, what's the ailing organ? Yeah, 0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:53.080 I was, I was wondering about that too. It brought 0:47:53.200 --> 0:47:57.799 some rather um specific ideas to mind. Apparently, there's some 0:47:57.920 --> 0:48:00.560 uncertainty there, but the authors laid or in the article 0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:04.560 speculate that we're talking about hands and feet. So Oregan 0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:08.200 used very loosely here. It still makes me wonder. I mean, like, 0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:11.080 I know, in some ancient documents, like in some books 0:48:11.080 --> 0:48:14.160 of the Hebrew Bible, I believe scholars speculate that references 0:48:14.200 --> 0:48:18.239 to the feet are often euphemistic references to the genitals. Yeah, well, 0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:22.120 and ultimately, hey, the genitals need washing too, and genitals 0:48:22.160 --> 0:48:26.040 also suffer ailments, both of the skin, uh and other varieties. 0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:28.480 So I mean it's you know, we might snicker at 0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:32.400 the idea of um, you know, old genitals, ailing genitals 0:48:32.440 --> 0:48:35.640 being washed with a you know, a medical semi magical 0:48:35.680 --> 0:48:39.279 solution and ancient uh samaria, but I mean that's part 0:48:39.320 --> 0:48:41.319 of it, you know, in the same way that we 0:48:41.400 --> 0:48:45.960 often think of intestinal disruptions, you know, and um, you know, 0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:48.760 diarrhea and the like. There's there's kind of a humor 0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:51.240 to those those ailments, at least when we're not suffering 0:48:51.280 --> 0:48:54.120 them ourselves or when they're not too severe. But you 0:48:54.160 --> 0:48:57.120 look at say, you know, air vedic medicine, You look 0:48:57.160 --> 0:49:00.439 at any medical you know, old medical practice and there's 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:04.480 a lot of attention given to digestive problems. I mean, 0:49:04.480 --> 0:49:06.960 that's just that's part of being human, and that's part 0:49:07.040 --> 0:49:10.600 of our quest to to treat the ailments of humanity. 0:49:11.160 --> 0:49:14.799 Mm hmm. Speaking of diarrhea. While soap is is great 0:49:14.840 --> 0:49:17.520 for washing the outside of your body, do not ingest it? 0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.719 Oh yeah, we we. We were reminding my son of 0:49:20.800 --> 0:49:23.200 this several months ago, maybe half a year ago now, 0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:25.719 and at the same time, he was, as he is now, 0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:28.520 super into Harry Potter, so he's into potion making. So 0:49:28.560 --> 0:49:30.440 when we told him about this, he took this potion 0:49:30.480 --> 0:49:32.239 bottle that he plays with the with the bat in 0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:34.920 the bathtub, and he filled it like mostly with soap, 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:44.040 and then he labeled it the diarrhea potion as one 0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:49.240 of the worst potions in Snape's class. I completely flunked 0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:53.360 the diarrhea of potion portion of the Snape semester. That 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:57.200 the diarrhya potion is still uh in the bathroom. Um, 0:49:57.320 --> 0:49:59.120 maybe I should take a picture of it and share 0:49:59.160 --> 0:50:01.480 it with with people on the Stuff to Blew your 0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:05.240 Mind discussion module on Facebook because uh, yeah, it exists, 0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:08.239 and you know what, it probably works, probably works. I 0:50:08.280 --> 0:50:13.880 believe in masgic alright, So back to Conkol and Rasmussen. 0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:16.279 Here they point to a few other examples that the 0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:18.960 paper is is really good. It's worth looking at, uh, 0:50:19.040 --> 0:50:21.200 you know, looking at say some there's a for instance, 0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:24.839 a seventh century text of a private Acadian citizen. Uh 0:50:24.880 --> 0:50:29.319 that's describing using tamar risks, date palm, pine cone, and 0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:33.960 some unidentified plant that is referred to as master call. 0:50:34.800 --> 0:50:39.600 The quoting question, May the tamarisk, whereof the tops grow high, 0:50:39.640 --> 0:50:43.320 cleanse me? May the date palm which faces every wind 0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:46.759 free me? May the master call plant which fills the 0:50:46.800 --> 0:50:49.439 earth clean me? May the pine cone, which is full 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:53.360 of seed corns free me? I carry a container with 0:50:53.440 --> 0:50:56.760 an aqueous solution of master call plant to the gods 0:50:56.760 --> 0:50:59.440 of the heavens, as I would bring forth to you 0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:04.120 for pureification. So will you cleanse me? So another kind 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:08.200 of magical um uh you know, intonation of the of 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:11.920 the the substance that has been prepared. Okay. Uh So 0:51:12.239 --> 0:51:15.120 what are the authors, though, make of the significance of this, 0:51:15.320 --> 0:51:18.080 like is, why would this be a soap here? Okay? 0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:21.320 So they say, quote, the description of cleansing agents is 0:51:21.400 --> 0:51:24.200 quite interesting, and that it contains ingredients that form the 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:28.120 two components of soap. The tamarisk, genus of a group 0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:31.400 of saline and alkaline soil tolerant flowering shrubs native to 0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:35.240 raise in Africa, could be a potential source of alkali 0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:39.160 along with the mastacol plant. Tamarisk is also mentioned in 0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:43.040 the Epic of Gilgamesh when the goddess nin son Gilgamesh's 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:47.240 mother bathe ceremoniously in a bath of tamarisk and soap work. 0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:50.040 The date palm, which contains a number of fatty acids 0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:51.880 in both the seed and the flesh of the fruit, 0:51:52.080 --> 0:51:56.040 could provide the second component needed to produce soap. So again, 0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:59.279 we're in the zone of possible soap here. Again, the 0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:03.360 chemistry of soap is certainly possible before that date we 0:52:03.400 --> 0:52:05.799 gave earlier in the third millennium BC. It's just a 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:09.239 matter of finding hard evidence for it, hard records of 0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:12.960 it that we can we can definitely point to um plus. 0:52:13.080 --> 0:52:15.440 You know, it does make sense, as we've seen with 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:18.840 the gall origin idea, which again is much later in 0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:22.800 human history, that the likely origin of soap might involve, 0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:27.239 you know, an adjacent area of health, hygiene, medicine, or cosmetics, 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:29.719 and these examples, and you could well imagine it's sort 0:52:29.719 --> 0:52:34.680 of being discovered rediscovered uh to to varying degrees across 0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:38.000 different cultures. Uh So, I want to read just this 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:42.080 nice closing from Conkol and Rasmussen quote. The slightly complicated 0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:45.000 process of rendering the fats and oils and combining it 0:52:45.040 --> 0:52:48.680 with alkali could not have been developed spontaneously. There must 0:52:48.719 --> 0:52:51.880 have been a series of steps or procedures that slowly evolved, 0:52:52.040 --> 0:52:54.920 where each step results in a process useful enough to 0:52:54.920 --> 0:52:58.040 be adopted in its own right. One proposed sequence of 0:52:58.080 --> 0:53:01.120 development is that people use sand or ashes to remove 0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:04.279 the grease from skin. If they rinse the ashes off 0:53:04.320 --> 0:53:07.239 with water, the water and their skin would become slippery, 0:53:07.480 --> 0:53:11.080 which was because of the dissolved alkali salts. This water 0:53:11.160 --> 0:53:14.760 would clean better because the dissolved alkali reacts with the grease, 0:53:14.920 --> 0:53:17.600 converting it into soap. The more grease that was was 0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:20.560 dissolved in the solution, the better it cleans because more 0:53:20.640 --> 0:53:24.080 soap is formed. At some point, the ashes were discarded 0:53:24.080 --> 0:53:27.400 and the solution from leech d ashes or concentrated alkali 0:53:27.480 --> 0:53:31.319 salts were used. That's very plausible route of development to me. 0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:35.040 That maybe first you just had the oil as the 0:53:35.040 --> 0:53:39.240 contaminant itself, and then if you used ashes and the washing, 0:53:39.360 --> 0:53:41.440 it would naturally combine with the oils that you were 0:53:41.480 --> 0:53:44.879 trying to get off to make the soap. Uh, and 0:53:44.920 --> 0:53:47.240 that of course that would wash off much more easily 0:53:47.280 --> 0:53:49.720 because it bonds with the water you're using to rinse. 0:53:50.120 --> 0:53:52.240 So yeah, I can definitely see something like that, maybe 0:53:52.280 --> 0:53:54.680 the like ashes from a fire pit or kind of 0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:58.920 the stepping stone. Yeah, so so yeah, this is interesting 0:53:58.960 --> 0:54:01.359 to really sort of you know, peer back through history. 0:54:01.360 --> 0:54:05.040 And again you don't have that wonderful aha moment where 0:54:05.080 --> 0:54:08.480 where you suddenly have something accidentally produced. Instead, it's it's 0:54:08.520 --> 0:54:12.120 something that develops out of these um, these hygienic practices 0:54:12.120 --> 0:54:14.520 and rituals. You know. One of the funny things that 0:54:14.600 --> 0:54:17.320 I was just thinking about is that throughout history you 0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:20.879 would have had all of these uh soap making industries 0:54:21.360 --> 0:54:24.440 that we're making use of rendered animal fats, and I 0:54:24.440 --> 0:54:26.640 would guess that a lot of the animal fats they 0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:29.600 were using were probably not the ones that were like 0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:34.160 still freshest and best for I don't know, culinary uses 0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:38.040 or types of uses. So I can imagine that the 0:54:38.080 --> 0:54:41.919 process of making soap throughout history might often have been 0:54:42.080 --> 0:54:45.720 rather nasty and stinky work. You know, what you're making 0:54:45.800 --> 0:54:48.719 is ultimately the thing that that gets the gets the 0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:53.920 rich butts clean. Yes, so making does even knowing you 0:54:53.920 --> 0:54:55.680 know a little bit more about what goes into the 0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:59.040 into the sausages, it does have this air of u 0:55:00.360 --> 0:55:03.840 a sort of chemical nobility to it right today, especially 0:55:03.880 --> 0:55:07.040 when you're dealing with with with with with crafts people, 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:12.879 right and bespoke soaps and so forth. But yeah, which 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:18.160 I made with rancid goat fat. Rancid goat fat is 0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:20.760 not used in the marketing enough. You know. I always 0:55:20.760 --> 0:55:23.480 think back to those Irish spring commercials when I was 0:55:23.520 --> 0:55:25.560 a kid, where it's like, you know that the manly 0:55:25.680 --> 0:55:29.839 Irish soap that is appears to just spring forth from 0:55:29.880 --> 0:55:34.240 the earth. Uh, it's like some weird manna that flows 0:55:34.280 --> 0:55:37.320 out of the uh you know, the mountains uh in 0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:40.200 Ireland or something. You know. Soaps another thing we've talked 0:55:40.280 --> 0:55:44.160 before about we're like products they get gendered marketing and 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:47.920 products that don't um and like, of course soap is 0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:50.640 one of those that's so interesting, Like you know, there's 0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:53.960 feminine soap and there's masculine soap and like why, I 0:55:54.040 --> 0:55:56.800 don't know. Yeah, I mean, I mean, obviously some soaps 0:55:56.800 --> 0:56:00.640 are are more I guess, um, you know, more durable 0:56:00.680 --> 0:56:03.880 than others, or more or harsher like I remember my 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:08.720 my grandfather would always wash and lather up with lava soap, 0:56:09.040 --> 0:56:12.040 which was one that was definitely gendered, you know, but 0:56:12.080 --> 0:56:13.839 it was it was like a workman. So I guess 0:56:13.880 --> 0:56:16.200 they probably still make it. I'm certainly not in the 0:56:16.200 --> 0:56:18.600 market for it. But it was a harsh and abrasive 0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:21.240 bar of soap. It was the it was the most 0:56:21.280 --> 0:56:24.800 masculine bar of soap imaginable. This will turn you into leather, 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:28.440 It'll make beef jerky out of your skin. Yeah, just 0:56:28.560 --> 0:56:30.680 rip your skin right off. And then, of course you 0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:32.719 see the Irish Spring and there, I mean, there's I'm 0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:36.120 sure a plethora of different uh uh you know, masculine 0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:39.120 soaps out there. And then of course the reverse is 0:56:39.120 --> 0:56:40.880 true as well. You have something that you know that 0:56:41.360 --> 0:56:44.319 lots of floral tones and are definitely going in the 0:56:44.360 --> 0:56:47.640 other direction. I don't know. I'm more of the the 0:56:48.000 --> 0:56:51.239 gender neutral soap category. I like something uh, you know, 0:56:51.400 --> 0:56:57.040 nice uh and politely in between, so uh of course 0:56:57.080 --> 0:57:00.640 it doesn't matter whether you use masculine soap or feminine 0:57:00.640 --> 0:57:03.960 soap or gender neutral soap. It's very important that whatever 0:57:04.040 --> 0:57:06.839 kind of soap you use, you wash your hands. And 0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:08.799 that's one of the reasons we wanted to do this 0:57:08.840 --> 0:57:13.080 episode today. Robert, you discovered there's actually a Global Handwashing Day. 0:57:13.120 --> 0:57:15.279 I didn't know about that. Yeah, this is this was 0:57:15.320 --> 0:57:19.560 news to me. October fifte is Global Handwashing Day, and 0:57:19.760 --> 0:57:22.520 uh it was established by the Global Handwashing Partnership in 0:57:22.560 --> 0:57:26.080 two thousand eight. Uh quote. The observance aims to increase 0:57:26.120 --> 0:57:28.920 awareness and knowledge of the benefits of handwashing with soap. 0:57:29.360 --> 0:57:32.760 I have been going, um, yeah, certainly since its inception, 0:57:32.880 --> 0:57:36.080 I have not noticed uh this holiday. I have a 0:57:36.120 --> 0:57:42.000 feeling this October we might give it a little more attention. Yeah, 0:57:42.080 --> 0:57:45.880 and and certainly I do want to stress if it's 0:57:45.920 --> 0:57:49.960 masculine soap, gender neutral soap, you know, feminine soapa, whatever, 0:57:50.080 --> 0:57:53.120 kids soap, grown up soap. Use something you like. If 0:57:53.120 --> 0:57:56.160 if if it is a certain branding or or fragrance 0:57:56.280 --> 0:58:00.160 or whatever, uh makes you like it more or makes 0:58:00.200 --> 0:58:02.800 your your child like it more, go for it. That's 0:58:02.840 --> 0:58:06.120 my take on it. Uh. But but yeah, the Global 0:58:06.160 --> 0:58:09.520 Handwashing day is coming up, and uh, I was looking 0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:11.800 into it, and I found some wonderful stats via the 0:58:11.800 --> 0:58:17.520 CDC about just the benefits of handwashing, specifically the benefits 0:58:17.560 --> 0:58:22.000 of hand washing education within a given community. They point 0:58:22.000 --> 0:58:24.080 out that it can first of all, reduce the number 0:58:24.120 --> 0:58:27.360 of people who get sick with diarrhea by about twenty 0:58:27.400 --> 0:58:32.800 three to It can reduce absenteeism due to gastro intestinal 0:58:32.880 --> 0:58:37.120 illness and school children by twenty nine to fifty seven percent. 0:58:37.520 --> 0:58:40.440 It can reduce diar real illness in people with weakend 0:58:40.480 --> 0:58:43.920 immune systems by about fifty eight percent, and it can 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:48.440 reduce respiratory illnesses like colds in the general population by 0:58:48.440 --> 0:58:51.880 about sixteen to twenty one. Yeah. Now, one thing that's 0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:54.720 highlighted here is that hand washing is going to have 0:58:54.800 --> 0:58:58.640 different levels of effectiveness with different kinds of germs and diseases. 0:58:59.720 --> 0:59:01.800 I think one thing that we should probably be clear 0:59:01.840 --> 0:59:04.640 about is that I want to say, based on everything 0:59:04.680 --> 0:59:07.840 I've been reading, the primary route of transmission, for example 0:59:07.880 --> 0:59:11.919 of the novel coronavirus is going to be probably through 0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:16.480 droplets dispersed directly from other people onto you. So stuff 0:59:16.520 --> 0:59:20.560 that you would receive, you know, from people talking or breathing, coughing, 0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:23.720 sneezing in your presence. That's the primary route. But of 0:59:23.720 --> 0:59:26.680 course we we do think that a strong secondary route 0:59:26.800 --> 0:59:30.680 is you know, contaminated surfaces and and spreading through contact 0:59:30.720 --> 0:59:33.760 through the hands, touching the face. Yeah, I mean that's 0:59:33.800 --> 0:59:37.400 why handwashing alone is not enough. That's why you know, 0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:40.320 early on in the pandemic here in the United States, 0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:42.560 it was there was like this. There are a few days, 0:59:42.560 --> 0:59:45.520 maybe even a week there where like every business just 0:59:45.560 --> 0:59:51.200 went crazy with hand sanitizer and handwashing, um encouragement, you know, 0:59:51.240 --> 0:59:56.720 with just handwashing stations or or hand sanitation stations everywhere. 0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:59.680 But then it quickly became you know, obvious that that 0:59:59.760 --> 1:00:03.400 would and that's only the secondary transmission. Primary transmission is 1:00:03.400 --> 1:00:06.520 going to be those droplets. Therefore social distancing is necessary, 1:00:06.760 --> 1:00:09.080 exactly right. But of course you can see with many 1:00:09.120 --> 1:00:11.360 other diseases, especially a lot of diseases I think that 1:00:11.400 --> 1:00:14.919 affect the digestive system, like diarrheal diseases have a very 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:18.880 strong component of of you know, contamination delivered through the 1:00:18.920 --> 1:00:21.800 hands to the mouth, all these fecal oral route diseases 1:00:21.800 --> 1:00:24.919 and stuff. Yeah, so even outside of COVID nineteen, there 1:00:24.920 --> 1:00:28.960 are plenty of fringe benefits UH to an additional you 1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:31.840 know it benefits to doing all that hand washing. I 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:35.640 found this interesting. I imagine other folks heard about this 1:00:35.680 --> 1:00:39.080 as well. But Dr Anthony Focci, the director of the 1:00:39.160 --> 1:00:42.920 National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases UH, an individual 1:00:43.000 --> 1:00:45.840 everyone you know, is seeing a lot about week after week. 1:00:46.320 --> 1:00:49.400 He was talking to the Wall Street Journals podcast about 1:00:49.440 --> 1:00:53.080 this UH and he said, he's talking about like what 1:00:53.160 --> 1:00:56.200 happens when we we sort of begin to emerge from 1:00:56.200 --> 1:01:00.600 our current um you know, social distancing and to and 1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:05.080 shelter in place HUM requirements. He said, quote, when you 1:01:05.120 --> 1:01:08.520 gradually come back, you don't jump in with both feet. 1:01:08.640 --> 1:01:11.360 You say, what are the things you could still do 1:01:11.600 --> 1:01:14.840 and still approach normal? And one of them is absolute 1:01:14.920 --> 1:01:19.160 compulsive handwashing. The other is you don't shake anyone's hands. 1:01:19.440 --> 1:01:22.440 I don't think we should ever shake hands ever again. 1:01:22.480 --> 1:01:24.840 To be honest with you, not only would it be 1:01:24.960 --> 1:01:28.640 good to prevent coronavirus disease, it would probably it probably 1:01:28.640 --> 1:01:33.240 would decrease instances of influenza dramatically in this country. But 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:35.400 how will this be received by the people who just 1:01:35.640 --> 1:01:39.200 love shaking hands? I say, as a joke because I 1:01:39.240 --> 1:01:41.680 assume nobody does. I mean, I guess some people actually 1:01:41.680 --> 1:01:44.240 probably do enjoy it. I mean, I don't know, does 1:01:44.280 --> 1:01:46.960 anybody except like the certain kinds of people who like 1:01:47.040 --> 1:01:50.360 to play some weird dominance game about it, does anybody 1:01:50.400 --> 1:01:54.080 else enjoy it? I mean, it's literally just a friendly 1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:58.120 greeting words are great, yeah, and uh. And like I 1:01:58.120 --> 1:02:00.000 was thinking of a little bit about this myself, because 1:02:00.400 --> 1:02:04.840 certainly the handshakes that I remember are like the big dominant, 1:02:05.000 --> 1:02:08.520 like hand crushing handshakes you encounter, and also the awkward 1:02:08.600 --> 1:02:12.240 like dead fish handshakes, and and even like a normal 1:02:12.240 --> 1:02:14.720 handshake is at least for me, kind of awkward. But 1:02:14.840 --> 1:02:16.960 I think part of it is, like you think about, 1:02:17.120 --> 1:02:19.000 you know, when do you hand shake hands? When do 1:02:19.000 --> 1:02:21.120 you not? We tend not to shake hands with our 1:02:21.160 --> 1:02:25.320 closest friends and co workers, etcetera. It's like new people. Uh. 1:02:25.360 --> 1:02:27.960 And that's part of why I mean that that flows 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:31.720 right into a Dr Fauci's advice here. But I guess 1:02:31.760 --> 1:02:33.960 the other thing is we're often talking about kind of 1:02:34.000 --> 1:02:38.680 like business handshakes and that that level of stranger handshake. 1:02:39.320 --> 1:02:41.800 But then there are also the sort of handshakes that 1:02:41.880 --> 1:02:45.800 often take place and say a communal church environment. So 1:02:45.960 --> 1:02:49.000 my initial response was yes, I hate business handshakes, but 1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:51.000 then I had to think, well, how about handshakes that 1:02:51.040 --> 1:02:53.640 take places place during like the passing of peace in 1:02:53.680 --> 1:02:56.480 a church and those so those are okay, those are nice. 1:02:56.520 --> 1:02:59.880 I like those that being said, Uh, I'm happy to 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:02.400 if those behind do something else instead. We can do 1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:05.200 the elbow bump thing we canno do each other. There 1:03:05.200 --> 1:03:07.200 are tons of things we can do and still have 1:03:07.360 --> 1:03:11.240 that communal experience. I want to see churches past the 1:03:11.240 --> 1:03:13.760 piece with a fist bump, because I was just looking 1:03:13.760 --> 1:03:16.480 at a study from the American Journal of Infection Control 1:03:16.520 --> 1:03:21.000 in ten by Sarah Miller and David E. Whitworth called 1:03:21.240 --> 1:03:24.640 the fist bump a more hygienic alternative to the handshake. 1:03:25.040 --> 1:03:28.800 They actually studied how much at like, what percentage of 1:03:28.840 --> 1:03:33.120 germs were spread by handshakes versus other types of greetings, 1:03:33.160 --> 1:03:36.640 including a high five and a fist bump. And what 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:40.480 they found was that quote, nearly twice as many bacteria 1:03:40.560 --> 1:03:44.160 were transferred during a handshake, and the mean here was 1:03:44.520 --> 1:03:48.360 one point to four times ten to the eight cfu. 1:03:48.520 --> 1:03:52.600 That's CFU means colony forming units compared with a high five, 1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:56.760 whereas the fist bump consistently gave the lowest transmission. So 1:03:56.920 --> 1:04:01.080 I think if you must touch fist bump instead of handshake, especially, 1:04:01.120 --> 1:04:06.200 don't do prolonged handshakes. Um this is they measured that 1:04:06.280 --> 1:04:10.560 a strong handshake quote or a prolonged handshake is even 1:04:10.600 --> 1:04:14.600 worse than a moderate handshake. So like those ridiculously long 1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:17.919 handshakes that um uh they you sometimes see the US 1:04:17.960 --> 1:04:20.800 President engage in where like nobody's letting go, like where 1:04:20.800 --> 1:04:23.280 it's like the test of the test of will that's 1:04:23.320 --> 1:04:29.000 just a natural way to to pass on various ailments, 1:04:29.520 --> 1:04:31.680 or or like the ones. Uh, I think, aren't there 1:04:31.720 --> 1:04:33.880 some of these in like action movies like an Arnold 1:04:33.920 --> 1:04:38.120 Schwarzenegger movies like the beginning of Predator and Coral Weather 1:04:38.200 --> 1:04:42.200 Is they're just like holding hands for several minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:04:42.200 --> 1:04:44.960 it's an iconic scene and it's so raw, the big 1:04:45.040 --> 1:04:48.120 muscles and all the Yeah, not a good idea. But 1:04:48.200 --> 1:04:51.680 they both had diarrhea for a week after that. Yeah, 1:04:51.760 --> 1:04:54.280 I mean probably just that was that they probably were 1:04:54.280 --> 1:04:58.640 already happening. They were in the jungle scenario right living 1:04:58.680 --> 1:05:02.560 off the land. Now, I did notice that they point 1:05:02.600 --> 1:05:05.240 out a difference between fist bump and prolonged fist bump. 1:05:05.320 --> 1:05:07.320 So it's like, I wonder, is a prolonged fist bump 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:09.360 going to be more like the snail or some of 1:05:09.400 --> 1:05:12.880 these these uh you know, these variations on the fist 1:05:12.920 --> 1:05:15.080 bump or or and then and then also where does 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:17.040 are they blowing it up at all? Is there they're 1:05:17.040 --> 1:05:19.880 doing the hand grenade? So many questions I would I 1:05:19.880 --> 1:05:22.040 would imagine the blowing it up is pretty safe. I 1:05:22.080 --> 1:05:25.080 don't think any germs are transferred during blowing it up. Yeah, 1:05:25.200 --> 1:05:27.360 as long as it blows up quickly. Maybe that's the 1:05:27.400 --> 1:05:29.840 great thing about it. The blowing it up is a 1:05:29.840 --> 1:05:31.880 way to remind ourselves that we've got to keep this 1:05:31.960 --> 1:05:37.760 brief because this hand grenade is about to go off. Well, 1:05:37.600 --> 1:05:41.440 I will say my personal prejudice against hand shaking aside, 1:05:41.920 --> 1:05:43.920 if you're gonna be shaking hands, and make sure you 1:05:44.000 --> 1:05:46.280 wash your hands a lot, wash your hands before, wash 1:05:46.320 --> 1:05:50.560 your hands after, and and use soap. Use soap. Yeah, 1:05:50.600 --> 1:05:55.000 because soap again is a fabulous human chemical invention. It 1:05:55.080 --> 1:05:58.640 has a very long history, a very fascinating history. Uh, 1:05:58.760 --> 1:06:01.280 so hopefully you'll think this is something you can think 1:06:01.320 --> 1:06:04.560 about during those uh twenty plus seconds that you wash 1:06:04.600 --> 1:06:07.440 your hands. Totally alright, So we're gonna go ahead and 1:06:07.440 --> 1:06:09.840 close it up there. Um. You know, obviously there's there's 1:06:09.880 --> 1:06:12.120 more we could have gone into, and you know, in 1:06:12.200 --> 1:06:15.920 terms of certainly the more recent history of soap uh 1:06:16.000 --> 1:06:18.000 and and so forth. But but really I think that 1:06:18.320 --> 1:06:22.040 the ancient history here and just the basic basic understanding 1:06:22.040 --> 1:06:24.800 of how soap works were the most important things to 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:27.560 focus in on. In the meantime, if you want to 1:06:27.640 --> 1:06:29.840 check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, 1:06:30.040 --> 1:06:32.840 head on over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 1:06:32.880 --> 1:06:34.680 That will lead you over to the I heart listing 1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:36.960 for this show. But you can also find Stuff to 1:06:37.000 --> 1:06:40.280 Blow your Mind wherever you get your podcasts, wherever that 1:06:40.360 --> 1:06:44.200 happens to be. Just make sure you rate, review, and subscribe. 1:06:44.760 --> 1:06:47.560 At least for the immediate future, we're planning to continue 1:06:47.720 --> 1:06:51.800 doing Invention themed episodes on a periodic basis, So I 1:06:51.840 --> 1:06:54.160 don't think that's gonna be it's not gonna be weekly, 1:06:54.560 --> 1:06:56.720 but you know it's I think it's gonna at least 1:06:56.720 --> 1:07:00.000 be monthly. That's my my gut. There's no real, uh 1:07:00.080 --> 1:07:03.080 a firm schedule in place on that. But we love 1:07:03.120 --> 1:07:06.520 covering inventions, we love covering human techno history, so we 1:07:06.560 --> 1:07:09.040 will continue to do so. We'll do when we feel 1:07:09.080 --> 1:07:10.840 like it, and we feel like it an awful lot, 1:07:10.880 --> 1:07:15.040 I'd say yeah anyway, huge thanks to our excellent audio 1:07:15.160 --> 1:07:17.920 producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get 1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:20.240 in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 1:07:20.280 --> 1:07:22.680 any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or 1:07:22.760 --> 1:07:26.040 just to say hello, you can email us at contact 1:07:26.160 --> 1:07:37.080 at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to 1:07:37.080 --> 1:07:39.600 Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For 1:07:39.720 --> 1:07:42.479 more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 1:07:42.640 --> 1:07:54.120 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. 1:08:00.000 --> 1:08:01.880 She was wanted to have a time about a