Speaker 1: This is Me eat podcast coming in you shirtless severely
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening podcast. You can't
Speaker 1: predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the
Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt
Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where
Speaker 1: you stand with on X your listeners ought to know
Speaker 1: that you just missed, barely missed a rant my covid rant.
Speaker 1: Has anyone else ever had a covid rant? Yes? I
Speaker 1: think not maybe within this group, but there's certainly been
Speaker 1: a thing. The internet is like covid rants underblog on
Speaker 1: It's good, it was impressed. Don't waste your time here, Clay, Uh, Clay.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start because because I don't think you've pronounced
Speaker 1: your name right, So I'm gonna start calling you. Start
Speaker 1: calling Clay Newcomb Newcombe man one time, one time, Clay
Speaker 1: Newcomb Newcombe. Here's a good one for you. I guess
Speaker 1: it's Newcomb like like Newcomb, like Newcombe. We're gonna nukem
Speaker 1: if the only reason I really but how do you
Speaker 1: know that that's what it is? Because that's what my
Speaker 1: dad taught me. So that's good enough. The only reason
Speaker 1: I told you that because I used to pronounce your name.
Speaker 1: How did I pronounce it? And somebody literally said yan Yeah,
Speaker 1: I said Ryan Nella, that's great emphasis on the rye.
Speaker 1: I like it, Ryan Nella. Somebody was like, if you
Speaker 1: ever meet him, don't call him that because it's yeah Stephen,
Speaker 1: Ryan Nella, Ronella, Clay Newcomb, Nukem, nukem whatever, you whatever,
Speaker 1: North Korea. We're gonna newkem. Um. Uh, here's one for you.
Speaker 1: Do you know this about? This is in your wheelhouse. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's a guy we know, Damon bun Guard. You ever
Speaker 1: met him? Oh? Yeah, yeah, he's a friend of mine.
Speaker 1: He's taken up. Like you know, I have a someday
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take up the cause of that that I
Speaker 1: wanted there to be federal blaze orange laws where blaze orange,
Speaker 1: by federal edict is a hat while hunting with firearms,
Speaker 1: nothing else. Hat. Why ooming, It's the Wyoming law hat.
Speaker 1: And it would be like people, no vest. If you
Speaker 1: want to wear a vest, feel free. If you want
Speaker 1: to wear orange snowsuit, be my guest, but all you
Speaker 1: have to wear the law would be And it's because
Speaker 1: I know I believe in states rights and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. When when it suits, say the fans
Speaker 1: would come in the Supreme Court, say would come in
Speaker 1: and say, um here ye here ye, you know hereby
Speaker 1: the majority opinion, you know, written by Justice Roberts, is
Speaker 1: that you can't make someone wear more an orange hat.
Speaker 1: This is one all the way to the top Supreme Court. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: it was like seven to So an individual state, Soldomeyer,
Speaker 1: couldn't get on board. It wasn't r P yeah, rpg
Speaker 1: RBG and Soldomeyer felt that it wasn't rudely enough, wasn't
Speaker 1: like it didn't have enough imposition into it. But everybody
Speaker 1: else like, yeah, seems cool. Some states have noblaze orange laws.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get back. So an individual state couldn't
Speaker 1: add on to that. No, it would be illegal, okay,
Speaker 1: like in Georgia. Uh, in Georgia, the like the governor
Speaker 1: got sick. In Georgia, the governor got sick of towns
Speaker 1: trying to go it alone on COVID restrictions. So the
Speaker 1: governor said, made a law that says that municipalities and
Speaker 1: whatnot can't make added. So this would be like a
Speaker 1: deal where they also came in and did like the
Speaker 1: Georgia governor's COVID move on Orange rules. This would become
Speaker 1: my thing when I retire. Uh, did you hear that
Speaker 1: the governor of Georgia sued the mayor of Atlanta. No,
Speaker 1: did you hear about that over Orange laws? Over over
Speaker 1: COVID laws. Yeah, So the governor may government a statewide
Speaker 1: regulation about COVID laws, and in the governor of the
Speaker 1: Mayor of Atlanta came in and made a stricter policy
Speaker 1: than the state, and the governor literally sued. As I understood,
Speaker 1: I just heard that this morning. He doesn't want it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he doesn't want the people going roll. That's that's pretty
Speaker 1: pretty rough, pretty rough situation when the governor is suing
Speaker 1: the mayor of Atlanta. A weird part about that is that, um,
Speaker 1: a governor is going to be the one who is
Speaker 1: going to advocate for states rights, right like it's chili
Speaker 1: typically like the governor perspective would be adversarial to higher
Speaker 1: level oversight. And if you were going to extend that
Speaker 1: logic just for him to be intellectually consistent, it seems
Speaker 1: that he would have to say, because I generally advocate
Speaker 1: for for local control and I don't want a burden,
Speaker 1: some federal imposition on my state. By an extension of logic,
Speaker 1: it seems that he would then have to say, therefore,
Speaker 1: I support even more local control in terms of mayor, mayor,
Speaker 1: mayor what do they call mayor, l mayorship goobertorts governor.
Speaker 1: So he's saying like, oh, no, no, no, I like
Speaker 1: local control, but not any more local than me. Um
Speaker 1: the that's I'm about as local as I like to get.
Speaker 1: So he's in a weird intellectual position on that. So
Speaker 1: I got I got his back on it. Here's the
Speaker 1: thing for you, damon. He's made his his life's calling
Speaker 1: to make it legal too. What I don't know? Oh,
Speaker 1: you're friends with him. I am friends with him. He
Speaker 1: has a tracking dog warmer. Oh yeah, he wants he
Speaker 1: wants to leave with a blood blood track with the dogs.
Speaker 1: He not even friends with the guy, never even heard of.
Speaker 1: I thought we were talking about Orange. Oh yeah, that
Speaker 1: was just amazing. His dog's named Yeager, and uh yeah
Speaker 1: he's yeah, damon, we've we've had him on the podcast
Speaker 1: before talking about I've met Yeager's dog. He sent me
Speaker 1: a map with the holdout states. Okay, so here's where
Speaker 1: it gets interesting like his crusade. There's an organization you
Speaker 1: should be leading the convo um United Blood Trackers. Now
Speaker 1: his group that he's he's affiliated with the United Blood Trackers.
Speaker 1: Do me a favorite bring bringing everybody up to speed.
Speaker 1: Forget all that with what he's talking about. Well so,
Speaker 1: so basically, basically, blood dog blood trailing dogs is a
Speaker 1: thing where you you shoot an animal, the animal runs off,
Speaker 1: it leaves a blood trail. Sometimes that trail is short,
Speaker 1: sometimes that trail is long. And historically, in Europe, blood
Speaker 1: trailing dogs are big time, like if you are a hunter,
Speaker 1: you have access to a blood trailing dog, and they
Speaker 1: view it from a position of an ethical position of recovery,
Speaker 1: you know. So, so in Europe it's, uh, it's in
Speaker 1: many places it's almost I think it's even mandated that
Speaker 1: you know, you have blood trailing dogs. And so in
Speaker 1: the United States there are some places that don't allow
Speaker 1: you to use a dog to recover hit or wounded game.
Speaker 1: And it's because really it's just because of a lack
Speaker 1: of knowledge, like they feel like it's, oh, you're using
Speaker 1: dogs to kill game. Are you're using dogs to pursue game?
Speaker 1: Are you're using dogs? You're using dogs to help you
Speaker 1: be a successful hunter. So it's like, oh, we don't
Speaker 1: you know, no dogs involved in hunting whatsoever. So it's
Speaker 1: kind of one of these like uh blips on the radar,
Speaker 1: where really it makes total makes a logical sense where
Speaker 1: blood trailing dogs on a leash and blood trailing dog
Speaker 1: is always gonna be on a leash. I mean, you
Speaker 1: know some states are different, Like you've read my notes, good, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes zero sense that we couldn't use blood trailing
Speaker 1: dogs and a lot of these guys have uh, I mean,
Speaker 1: these guys get into it. Man. A guy I've used
Speaker 1: blood trailing dogs twice for deer that I've shot. And
Speaker 1: my buddy in Arkansas, he big time hunter. He would
Speaker 1: rather the telephone ring with a hunter calling him the
Speaker 1: blood trailer deer than for himself to go hunting and
Speaker 1: kill a deer. That's the sense I get from a
Speaker 1: couple of people I've talked to in this space is
Speaker 1: they're like blood trailing enthusiasts. That's what they've become. And
Speaker 1: that's what Damon is. He he really enjoys it. My
Speaker 1: brother's dog, Um Shifty, has has emerged as that eat
Speaker 1: anything has emerged as a blood trailing dog. Um. It's
Speaker 1: it's like it kind of gets the it's with the program,
Speaker 1: like it's been out hunting enough where it's with the
Speaker 1: program and is a and is a real asset on
Speaker 1: trailing m But they've been whittling away at states that Um,
Speaker 1: they've been whittling the way at states that don't allow it.
Speaker 1: And he says, usually, and Damon's emailed me about this.
Speaker 1: Usually the turning point and in legislation, in the legislation
Speaker 1: process is clarifying that we're talking about animals that are
Speaker 1: on the leech. That's right, So they're not out free roaming,
Speaker 1: they're not like running deer. There, we're ruling out trust.
Speaker 1: You're not releasing this dog to go catch it, dear,
Speaker 1: and it's not. There's no risk of it crossing fence
Speaker 1: lines and whatever. Um. And then this is explained and
Speaker 1: captured properly, they find that the states wind not being
Speaker 1: very sensitive to it. Or Okay, he sent me this map.
Speaker 1: Oh and it's like it's in greens and reds and
Speaker 1: they've got like pretty much the whole country has decided. Okay,
Speaker 1: hawaiis that's one of those maps. Oh no, Hawaii is green. Okay, Hawaii, Alaska,
Speaker 1: you can have a dog on a leashan blood trail
Speaker 1: the holes, it's a weird thing. The West coast um
Speaker 1: is or the western the westernmost five states, and then
Speaker 1: one looks like New York. I wish I could zoom
Speaker 1: this bugger up. Oh here you ready. Massachusetts, Rhode Island
Speaker 1: in Connecticut our no go. So the no go states
Speaker 1: are clustered and weirdly. Um the five most western states
Speaker 1: in the US, so Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, and Arizona
Speaker 1: are still no go hmm. And then you have a
Speaker 1: little cluster in the northeast. Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: Massachusetts are more than more are pro blood trial and
Speaker 1: dog than than not. By my reckoning, forty two states
Speaker 1: are are okay with you pursuing game with leashed dog.
Speaker 1: And what they were what they want to do is
Speaker 1: they want to get the rest of the place cleaned up,
Speaker 1: opened up because, like I said, just people that identify
Speaker 1: as United Blood Trackers members, So not counting all the
Speaker 1: dudes out there that happen to have a good odd
Speaker 1: for tracking. But these dudes that are in this group
Speaker 1: recovered over three thousand animals last fall. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of them. M yeah, yeah, how many How many animals
Speaker 1: do you think go unrecovered? Like? How many are there
Speaker 1: stats on that? It's very contentious. In fact, you're encouraged
Speaker 1: to not talk about it because it makes things look bad.
Speaker 1: Um And it's hard to say, but it's not quite
Speaker 1: half of everything that gets arrow stuck into it, and
Speaker 1: it depends by species a little bit. But that, but
Speaker 1: they also got considered that doesn't mean they died. This
Speaker 1: is handy for stuff. This so that it's a much
Speaker 1: smaller percent. I mean a lot of things get stuck
Speaker 1: with arrow or nicked by an arrow or a bullet
Speaker 1: that doesn't kill it. Just go to a guy that
Speaker 1: processes wild game that usually got coffee cans full of broadheads.
Speaker 1: They've been bullet and shoulders and just wewhere. So that's
Speaker 1: common that things just get wounded, just like people get wounded.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can cut your finger and bleed more
Speaker 1: than a lot of deer blood trails um. And so
Speaker 1: there's that which the dog isn't gonna find anyways because
Speaker 1: he's on a leash. And then there's the whatever percent
Speaker 1: of it is that it died. Um, it's much that
Speaker 1: like lethal not recovered, but dead is much lower. But
Speaker 1: I would say significant. Yeah, And there's a lot of
Speaker 1: things that can happen. I mean, you could hit something
Speaker 1: and uh, you know when it goes into a creek
Speaker 1: and it washes, you know, washes blood away. Maybe it
Speaker 1: travels down the creek a minute, it comes out of
Speaker 1: the creek dripping wet. It makes it twenty yards before
Speaker 1: another drop hits the ground and you're looking look and
Speaker 1: never piece it together. We used to lose a lot
Speaker 1: of dude. This thing called Mosquito Creek where I grew up.
Speaker 1: It was once a deer hit Mosquito Creek. Everybody got
Speaker 1: a bad feeling. Remember one time? Was it just because
Speaker 1: of how far it was away? Because and then it
Speaker 1: was in the creek, and then it was everybody just
Speaker 1: it really sucked the energy out of a blood trailing
Speaker 1: party when you Sito Creek. You know what's interesting about
Speaker 1: those blood dogs is there they're not always trailing blood
Speaker 1: like you you get the sense that they're smelling blood
Speaker 1: and they are that's all that they're tracking. Because but
Speaker 1: that's why you need a blood dog is when the
Speaker 1: blood trail is sparse, and what they do is they
Speaker 1: they lock onto the individual scent of that animal, a
Speaker 1: good one. You know, you you put it on a
Speaker 1: track and you want it to smell some of the
Speaker 1: blood obviously, because that blood is connected with that scent
Speaker 1: in that track. And what's amazing is that, you know,
Speaker 1: individual animals have individual scent, and so that dog is
Speaker 1: trailing that animal and then you know they're just think
Speaker 1: of five hundred yard blood trail through good white tail country.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be other trails, you know, scent trails that
Speaker 1: cross that blood trail, and a good dog is able
Speaker 1: to lock on and stay on. Um. Yeah, And but
Speaker 1: it's also it's a it's a partnership between the handler
Speaker 1: and the dog because the handler has to understand what
Speaker 1: it dog, it's dog does when it's on a good
Speaker 1: blood trail. So like Damon will tell you, he might
Speaker 1: he can understand what that dog is doing and he
Speaker 1: may be like, hey, he's on the wrong track, and
Speaker 1: may scooch over twenty yards and get back on the
Speaker 1: right track. So you know, there there's it's a partnership.
Speaker 1: It's not just like the dog does all the work.
Speaker 1: There's some human intellect going to it into it as well.
Speaker 1: I've seen that with hounds chasing lion tracks, where they
Speaker 1: call it sorting it out, where everything just goes crazy
Speaker 1: and it's whatever, something happened a creek crossing, the dogs
Speaker 1: came up, the lion came up on another lion bed, whatever,
Speaker 1: and they waded in there and hooting and hollering and
Speaker 1: stomping around, and pretty soon they get everybody like lined
Speaker 1: out back in though, and a lot of times that
Speaker 1: means they're they're going in and they're finding the actual
Speaker 1: track of the animal in the snow. If it's if
Speaker 1: they're in the snow, you know, coming out the other side,
Speaker 1: where they'll see their dogs just confused. They call it
Speaker 1: making a loss. Dogs make a loss, and then the
Speaker 1: houndsman goes in and maybe he finds a track three
Speaker 1: yards from that loss going the opposite direction. They hoop
Speaker 1: their dogs in and get their dogs going. This is
Speaker 1: my theory to on on blood tracking dogs. UM. I
Speaker 1: don't know a lot about like drip patterns, but I
Speaker 1: imagine when something's dripping blood, UM, sometimes you're surprised, what
Speaker 1: you're pleased with yourself about how small of a droplet
Speaker 1: you picked up. I mean things that are like the
Speaker 1: end of a sewing needle, the thick end of a
Speaker 1: sewing needle. And you might be like, look at that.
Speaker 1: I'm a command master tracker. There has to be a
Speaker 1: lot of blood droplets. Um, we don't, we don't, but
Speaker 1: but that that knows it's whatever, like thousands of times
Speaker 1: better than our nos um also find right, and then
Speaker 1: just ones that you just miss or their leaves flip over.
Speaker 1: I mean you know animals running droplet hits the leaf,
Speaker 1: leaf flips over when the animal passes over it. Have
Speaker 1: you met many people who are color blind? Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: some folks out there. I think Kenyan's old man or
Speaker 1: Kenyon maybe. Yeah, it has that red has like they
Speaker 1: can't see red. And when you're hunting, you gotta have
Speaker 1: a plan, you gotta have someone to call because they
Speaker 1: can't spot red. My brother in law had that. He
Speaker 1: couldn't see red on the ground. So he he was like,
Speaker 1: you couldn't now, and then he'd see like a black
Speaker 1: you could see I think it was he could see
Speaker 1: like a big pile of it would just be recognizable
Speaker 1: by its pattern, but the actual stuff it doesn't register
Speaker 1: to him as red. Yeah, And you're at a real disadvantage. Clear, Uh,
Speaker 1: this is not in your wheelhouse. What's that you've from
Speaker 1: with our song about Yanna? Well yeah, well no, okay,
Speaker 1: oh no, not reference. There's been many a song written
Speaker 1: about me. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not aware of it.
Speaker 1: I've I've written several. A guy found a song that
Speaker 1: he sent in a song from uh YouTube, he thinks
Speaker 1: is the real song. I personally think it's the worst song,
Speaker 1: and not because the song you're about to start singing
Speaker 1: to music here, I can't wait. I think it's the
Speaker 1: worst song I ever written. Not because of why, not
Speaker 1: because of why. It's just it's it's almost offensive. So
Speaker 1: he likes deer meat with his minimum wage. But where
Speaker 1: Yanni gets excited the chorus fun, it's time to have
Speaker 1: a little fun, Time to have a little fun. Here's
Speaker 1: Yanni's part. Free man that's not worth a smile. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is, the freezer, let's go skiing.
Speaker 1: He's like, this is the it's got a whopping. I've
Speaker 1: probably accounted for several That song was written a while ago.
Speaker 1: Whopping four thousand, six hundred nineties seven, back when there
Speaker 1: were more true outdoorsmen running around these parts. That's when
Speaker 1: it used to resonate. Yeah, I'm just saying the era
Speaker 1: that it was written. But when oh, you mean it
Speaker 1: was written in response to true outdoors been like me? No, okay, Now,
Speaker 1: back in the day, you can hear how Herring talked
Speaker 1: about it, um felt claim were briefly discussing how felt
Speaker 1: we respect a lot and you know, back in the day,
Speaker 1: like he says, it's like the true outdoorsmen did stuff
Speaker 1: with every season that was available. You know, there was
Speaker 1: a skiing that was trapping, there was um ice fishing,
Speaker 1: which fishing now you do it all. So what was
Speaker 1: so this song was written like like a Westerner that
Speaker 1: would have filled this game tag and then when recreational scheme.
Speaker 1: David Walburn is the musician. Let's find out about him
Speaker 1: and you're gonna blow this YouTube be talking about cross
Speaker 1: country skin. He's got a song. No, you don't think so.
Speaker 1: The album was released in two thousand three. It's genre
Speaker 1: is easy listening. I can buy that. Um he has
Speaker 1: five albums. Where is he from? Colorado? Duckley, you're thinking
Speaker 1: of Johnny Denver. Every state needs its own Johnny Denver.
Speaker 1: What is duck like he's up by white Fish, Montana. Gotcha,
Speaker 1: he actually runs, uh as I'm doing a little sleuthing here.
Speaker 1: He runs like a vacation home for outdoor enthusiasts and
Speaker 1: eco minded travelers. Meets in the freezer. I wish it
Speaker 1: was a heavy metal songs had a nice country and
Speaker 1: western field to it. See. I think if I think,
Speaker 1: give the meets in the freezer him and be like, dude,
Speaker 1: that's my ship from where ago, trademark that he's like,
Speaker 1: I I thought that a long time ago. And you
Speaker 1: still think meets in the freezer and you live in
Speaker 1: Montana and there's snow on the ground and it's wintertime,
Speaker 1: you should go lion hunting. That meets in the freezer,
Speaker 1: Let's go be good and get some more meat. Would
Speaker 1: be a good shirt for Yannie meets in the freezer.
Speaker 1: Let's go skiing. Yeah, yeah, it would be a good shirt.
Speaker 1: I can see a little caricature of Joannie with his
Speaker 1: skis and its freezer. I can't tell Yanni's upset or not. No,
Speaker 1: I think it's it's great. I mean, you listen to
Speaker 1: that course and everybody gets a kick out of it. Oh,
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. We've got some really
Speaker 1: good friends of ours are trying to convince my wife
Speaker 1: and I had become skiers like they traveled to ski
Speaker 1: if you live in the American South, man, Hey, I
Speaker 1: was on the s bandwagon long before I knew you
Speaker 1: were on the spandwagon, Steve. But I am stier and
Speaker 1: I am not a golfer. Oh. I think I meant
Speaker 1: the bandwagon about how you don't live in the South. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean technically technically I do. Uh, the upland South
Speaker 1: as it said, Oh, I'm thinking of Missouri. What's the quote.
Speaker 1: There's a quote about how they like the Southerners think
Speaker 1: they're Yankees, the Yankees thing through Southerners. Oh, who's like
Speaker 1: this like this mid South. I don't know that you
Speaker 1: heard that from me. No, I don't think I did not.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it. Uh. Here's our bit of feedback.
Speaker 1: So we had a very well received, very good podcast
Speaker 1: episode with a meat scientist. Was then you guys there?
Speaker 1: I was not was absent, Krin was there. Very good
Speaker 1: episode of the Meat Scientists um and he made clear
Speaker 1: he let people know the parameters of his expertise and
Speaker 1: they did not extend into fish. But a Buddy Mine,
Speaker 1: Tony Kola Rossi, he's been on this show, rode in
Speaker 1: to share this. We're talking about rigor mortis, okay and
Speaker 1: the meat scientists. Just to refresh everyone or for people
Speaker 1: that didn't listen to catch that episode. It was very
Speaker 1: I learned a ton talking to that guy. Um was
Speaker 1: adamant that you, uh, I need to let a carcass
Speaker 1: go through rigor enter into rigor mortis, and best to
Speaker 1: allow it to do it on the bone. He's not
Speaker 1: keen on immediately, even though now and then you have
Speaker 1: to be like you have no options. He's not keen
Speaker 1: on and advises against de boning a pre rig her
Speaker 1: carcass because rigor mortis is this like contraction and it's
Speaker 1: helpful when the muscles anchored at its points so that
Speaker 1: it's contraction is limited. I'd like to plug. When it's
Speaker 1: freed up, it goes like go ahead, that's right, just
Speaker 1: turns into a ball almost. But I just like to plug.
Speaker 1: Alaska Game and Fish because everything that Steve just discussed
Speaker 1: can be found on the Last Game Fish website about that.
Speaker 1: They also have information about what they call cold shortening um,
Speaker 1: when a when an animals frozen too soon, when meats
Speaker 1: frozen too soon. It's all there. Man. Those guys got
Speaker 1: it dialed. They do. Man. They got a lot of
Speaker 1: good information on that website. But no, I mean, I've
Speaker 1: been saying that stuff for years. I'm glad to hear
Speaker 1: that the meat scientists back me up. He probably stole
Speaker 1: your stuff. No, I doubt that. Skiing in the winter
Speaker 1: meat on the bottom, I don't have any getting stolen.
Speaker 1: It's like at night they're putting a radar going up
Speaker 1: to yan his head at night and just sucking out
Speaker 1: all the good ideas. Man. For my buddy, chef Tony Palmer,
Speaker 1: he even feels the same way about our turkey. He'll
Speaker 1: let that turkey hang every time, a full twenty four
Speaker 1: hours before he removes the breasts off that breast bone.
Speaker 1: For the same reason, I have an immense respect for
Speaker 1: Alaska's Fishing Game Agency. They take the job very serious, seriously,
Speaker 1: and they I don't mean it's in a negative way.
Speaker 1: They um jealously guard their resources and you don't have
Speaker 1: to ever question where um you don't have to ever
Speaker 1: question what they're getting at. You know, like they are
Speaker 1: just you know, they are like very they like to
Speaker 1: guard the resources and they like to let those resources
Speaker 1: that are able to support harvest be taken advantage of responsibly. Man,
Speaker 1: they take it's big business there. But just in terms
Speaker 1: of sharing information, they have a man they have like
Speaker 1: a little online magazine they put out like like a
Speaker 1: summation of research in the state, but made very digestible
Speaker 1: for layman. But like what's going on? So people like
Speaker 1: stupid fishing game? Right, you can go and see like
Speaker 1: here's what we do, here's why we do it, here's
Speaker 1: how we do it, and here how it has implications
Speaker 1: for you as an angler. And yes, um, we count
Speaker 1: things and measure things and make rules and change our
Speaker 1: rules because it's a dynamic environment that we live in
Speaker 1: and we're trying really hard to ensure for you an
Speaker 1: opportunity to continue hunting and fishing in the future, which
Speaker 1: now and then involves a little bad news all right.
Speaker 1: Back to Rigor Mortis, Oh, Tony Coli GRASSI, Uh, I
Speaker 1: have another digression? Should I hit it after I deliver
Speaker 1: the news or Prior's a Tony, I'll do it after
Speaker 1: host choice. Um Tony was saying he was this was
Speaker 1: explained to him. He says, I used to cook sam
Speaker 1: in the day I caught the fish until my buddy
Speaker 1: in Juno told me that you should always let the
Speaker 1: flames sit overnight in the fridge to complete the rigor cycle.
Speaker 1: If you cook fish right out of the water, you'll
Speaker 1: notice the flames really scrunch up on the grill and
Speaker 1: just like your guests said about red meat, and the
Speaker 1: meat is kind of chewy, almost a bit rubbery. I
Speaker 1: never thought much about it, always figured the fresh or
Speaker 1: the better. After hearing this from my buddy, I noticed
Speaker 1: a huge difference when you let the flames sit in
Speaker 1: the fridge overnight, then on the counter to room temp
Speaker 1: before grilling. He feels that this is especially true with
Speaker 1: bottom fish, him saying that I could picture what he's saying.
Speaker 1: I want to scrunches up, it almost becomes thicker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that's interesting because when we did uh, then
Speaker 1: he goes out and say, you probably already know this.
Speaker 1: I'll be like, uh huh, I bet Yoannie did. When
Speaker 1: we we cooked, we grilled small mouth filet's on the
Speaker 1: half shell, skin on and uh. We had caught him
Speaker 1: that day probably around I don't know, noon one and
Speaker 1: grilled him at six and they definitely had that like
Speaker 1: they got short. It started off as maybe a ten
Speaker 1: inch file at and ended up being an eight inch
Speaker 1: fil a And it was an inch and a half thick,
Speaker 1: and when it was done cooking, it was two inches thick.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Here's the digression. UM, Tony Collared Ross he
Speaker 1: does some deep drop fishing. They fisht of water for
Speaker 1: sable fish. And I just acquired my own deep drop
Speaker 1: rod and reel. And you know what I mean. Seth
Speaker 1: have our show on CBS called the Flip Flop Flasher's
Speaker 1: First Shed Saturday morning program. No, it goes up against
Speaker 1: the nightly news. Um competes well against the nightly news.
Speaker 1: We're gonna start a new show called Deep Drop Boys
Speaker 1: and What it is boy Z. You see people would
Speaker 1: watch it. Deep Drop Boys and what it is to me?
Speaker 1: And Seth travel to all corners of the world where
Speaker 1: the water is deep, and Um we set my deep
Speaker 1: drop rod down there and see if anything's down there.
Speaker 1: You know what would make the show work is if
Speaker 1: you had a second deep drop round with one of
Speaker 1: those magnets on it. Have you seen those treasures down there?
Speaker 1: Ye shall be the treasure guy. He'll be like his deal.
Speaker 1: He's like a big treasure guy and I'm a big
Speaker 1: fish guy. Like we argue a lot, We argue a lot,
Speaker 1: deep drop boys, that would go that would be on
Speaker 1: the History Channel. Our first episode is gonna be We're
Speaker 1: gonna call it, We're gonna need more line. And then
Speaker 1: the second episode is called Antipities. And Uh, for your
Speaker 1: listeners at home, remember when you're a little kid and
Speaker 1: you thought that if you dug down straight through Earth
Speaker 1: you would be in China. Um, I think that's for
Speaker 1: most Americans. That is, uh, absolutely not true. But in
Speaker 1: the Antipities episode, we deep drop a spot. Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's say where we make our episode We're gonna need
Speaker 1: more line. Then we go to the antipities of that
Speaker 1: spot and deep drop that spot, which is exact opposite
Speaker 1: place on the Earth. See how close the baits are
Speaker 1: if we snagged the hook. He goes all the way through. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what else I got? Then we get oh, this is
Speaker 1: interesting for people to hear about. Uh. People aren't aware
Speaker 1: of this, but there's an ongoing competition globally to know
Speaker 1: what is the oldest representational art in the world. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's always being you know, when it gets beaten.
Speaker 1: This is I can see Rick get excited. This is guys,
Speaker 1: I feel like Rick, like Kave Payne's I do like
Speaker 1: so you just smiled and I said, oh, I just
Speaker 1: say Kate Payte's Rick smiling. I don't know much about
Speaker 1: him though, A lion figurine or something. Yeah, yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: get the No, no, no, it's not it's humans hunting
Speaker 1: way old, way old, but um it's not a great way.
Speaker 1: Did you see Herzog something Kava Forgotten Dreams. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: went to that with my buddy Ben Wallace, he's a writer,
Speaker 1: and left and I said, I don't know how you
Speaker 1: can make a bad movie about cave paintings. And he said,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you can make a good movie
Speaker 1: about cave paintings. Just very different views on cave paintings. Um,
Speaker 1: it was shotting three D. We agree that we didn't
Speaker 1: like it. I mean, I loved the cave footage, but
Speaker 1: I didn't like the handling of it because I wanted
Speaker 1: more anthropology. I wanted less like modern day her jackasses. No,
Speaker 1: I like her Zag he's one of the best, but
Speaker 1: modern day jackasses talking about what they think people were thinking,
Speaker 1: and I wanted more anthropology. I can see that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean the skulls in that cave are unbelievable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the footage is unbelievable, like stillag tight stillag might
Speaker 1: crusted cave bear skull. I mean it was. It was cool, stunning,
Speaker 1: stunning footage. Cave have forgotten dreams. Dude found the cave
Speaker 1: by This is a common cave hunter thing air drafts.
Speaker 1: I think it was a kid, but the main one.
Speaker 1: Two kids found it and they like guarded it until
Speaker 1: they could alert the authorities. Maybe that's remember no, I
Speaker 1: remember I'm talking about people would go on these rock
Speaker 1: faces because the cave mills over time will get covered
Speaker 1: by debris rock, and they go and they feel for
Speaker 1: air flow. I think it's cool air coming out on
Speaker 1: a hot day. It's like cool air coming through the rock.
Speaker 1: To find that there's a recess. Uh So this new
Speaker 1: thing they found um for a while they thought that
Speaker 1: Europe had the oldest soul previous to this new discovery,
Speaker 1: which is an Indonesia. UM, there was a site in
Speaker 1: Europe that had where it's like abstract beings thrying thropes.
Speaker 1: How do you pronounce that theory? And popes Rick Theian
Speaker 1: popes I love that you would think, I know that
Speaker 1: m etherean folpe etherean thrope is a uh like an
Speaker 1: abstract being that combines qualities of both people and animals. Um.
Speaker 1: And they feel that they arguably communicated like narrative fiction
Speaker 1: of some kind, like folklore, religious myths, spiritual beliefs. What's
Speaker 1: that data to They start finding evidence of that around
Speaker 1: forty years ago, and then that that type of thing
Speaker 1: disappears at the Pleistocene Hola scene transition, so around ten
Speaker 1: thousand years ago, UM. But prior there was a site
Speaker 1: in Germany where there was a human with a cat
Speaker 1: head from about forty years ago. Now there's this new
Speaker 1: limestone cave in Indonesia, UM where they have human it's
Speaker 1: human animal hybrids. So these they and thropes are hunting
Speaker 1: wild pigs and a dwarf form of bovid so some
Speaker 1: extinct wild cow species. Probably a good fat on that thing.
Speaker 1: Forty three point nine thousand years old. Forty four thousand
Speaker 1: years a long time ago to hang out with those guys, man,
Speaker 1: what would have been that different? Didn't hang out? Yanni
Speaker 1: meets in the freezer. Let's get more. No skin as
Speaker 1: far as we can tell, here's one. Here's a good one.
Speaker 1: This is like one of those ones I flagged. Just
Speaker 1: come trying to tell if it's really true. This guy claims.
Speaker 1: This guy, I don't know. This guy claims that they
Speaker 1: repaired the car. So they're out el cotton. They're in
Speaker 1: a Jeep c J and the lower radiator hose splits.
Speaker 1: They're so deep in the woods that they take the
Speaker 1: esophagus out of the elk and clamp it on and
Speaker 1: drive on out of there. P s I m hm,
Speaker 1: he no, no, I messed up his mom. Okay. The
Speaker 1: dude rode in, saying his mom told him this about
Speaker 1: some other dude. And this dude's saying, like, do you
Speaker 1: buy that. Let's say the heat would break down and
Speaker 1: cook the esophagus and it would uh first under pressure
Speaker 1: eventually fall apart. He blames he blames his inability to
Speaker 1: test this himself on how hard it is a drawn
Speaker 1: elk tag in Michigan. He's got to put it out
Speaker 1: to other people to help him. I think that's a good,
Speaker 1: good subject matter for Spencer's uh MythBuster. Well, Spencer is
Speaker 1: such a pain, and he asked about the MythBuster thing.
Speaker 1: He's a real pain, and he asked about it because
Speaker 1: every time I come to him with a thing that
Speaker 1: I know to be true, he says, but you're the
Speaker 1: only person that thinks that, or you're the only person
Speaker 1: that wonders that. And he he likes it to be
Speaker 1: a widely held belief now where it comes to pain
Speaker 1: and the ass is he does things that I didn't
Speaker 1: know about. So I'm like, if it was that widely held,
Speaker 1: I would have heard of it. So it's like widely
Speaker 1: held as understood by Spencer. So I can't get I
Speaker 1: can't do the squirrel nut one do squirrels bite the
Speaker 1: nuts off other squirrels and castra? He goes, I feel
Speaker 1: that everyone who believes that heard it from you. But
Speaker 1: I think I finally got him talked into that. But
Speaker 1: I would love it. Don't just secretly put me on
Speaker 1: BCC or whatever and tell Spencer that it's a widely
Speaker 1: held belief that elkosophagus is you know how to say
Speaker 1: esophagus isn't pluralosophic? Guy, uh can just be used to
Speaker 1: replace your right either holes and you drive around and
Speaker 1: he'll do his thing. Be a good problem to have
Speaker 1: to have a fresh elkosophagus Okay, you guys want can
Speaker 1: we do one last one? Two last ones? You're in
Speaker 1: the show. What do you think like if I started
Speaker 1: into another one, are you gonna be like, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: how good it is? Yeah. We recently shared a story
Speaker 1: where a listener got thumb cuffed by a fishing bait.
Speaker 1: So he was like, I don't know how. I can't
Speaker 1: remember the exact details. Anyways, he like grabbed the thing
Speaker 1: out of his tackle box. He's he's like checking out
Speaker 1: or fiddling with a rapalla and tripped and got the
Speaker 1: trouble hooks in each of his thumbs in his phones
Speaker 1: in his back pocket. He couldn't even get at his
Speaker 1: phone to get it out. And he went out to
Speaker 1: the road and he's trying to show people driving by,
Speaker 1: like holding his bloody hands up to try to help
Speaker 1: them understand that he needs assistance and couldn't get any
Speaker 1: Eventually had to walk to a bar uh to get
Speaker 1: some help. Nobody would pull over. No, he said, I'm
Speaker 1: holding my He said, I'm holding my blood profusely bleeding
Speaker 1: hands up in the Air's car strive fine, I would
Speaker 1: have stopped. Was he yelling help me? Yeah? I don't
Speaker 1: know if he laid that if he went to a
Speaker 1: bar and got assistance, I'm not maybe I'm overestimated my
Speaker 1: ability to tolerate pain. I think if it got to that,
Speaker 1: I would just be like, just just you really, you
Speaker 1: can't just get it out plug Spencer's deal. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: there's the article that I don't know yet for sure,
Speaker 1: but I think that because my wife came up to
Speaker 1: me very excited last night and said, look at this photos.
Speaker 1: This is the title of the article. I like it already.
Speaker 1: That's my kind of article. Fish hook Injuries to meet
Speaker 1: eat Fans, And the the title page has a dude
Speaker 1: very much squinting, both his eyes kind of pretty much
Speaker 1: shut because he's got a trouble hook maybe two out
Speaker 1: of the three hooks in an eyeball, and I think another,
Speaker 1: the forward trouble hook is stuck in his hat. And uh, man,
Speaker 1: if you can bypass that and not click to go
Speaker 1: see the rest of them, you're stronger person than I am.
Speaker 1: But I was saying how he probably broke the internet
Speaker 1: with that one. Oh that's like my like, if if
Speaker 1: you know they use that radar gun to get younis
Speaker 1: I p out if you were to use a radar
Speaker 1: gun on my head and be like, what does this
Speaker 1: person want most? It would be like he would most
Speaker 1: want a book of fishing hook stuck in people's pictures,
Speaker 1: r coffee table book. Would it have a little sub
Speaker 1: chapter of sleeve fingers? Yeah? I put it in like
Speaker 1: an appendix in appendix about appendages. Uh. Well, another thing
Speaker 1: to plug isn't our new and our Wilderness Skills and
Speaker 1: Survival book, which will be available this December. You can
Speaker 1: go look at it now online. I think, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure you can go. You can go to Amazon
Speaker 1: right now and check it out. Gigantic book, humongous book.
Speaker 1: The Mediator Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival. We're talking
Speaker 1: here about how to get hooks out, best practices in
Speaker 1: good tricks. I'm getting hooks out, but no, I had
Speaker 1: to go to I had to go to I still
Speaker 1: have us see that. That's when I was like eight
Speaker 1: or nine years old. I'm looking at a half inch
Speaker 1: scar on a thumb treble hooks hook. I picked up
Speaker 1: Chris Babcox crank bait on his rod to admire it,
Speaker 1: and he like gave his rod a tug and then
Speaker 1: when it didn't come and you're a little when a
Speaker 1: hook doesn't when your bait doesn't come, and your little kid,
Speaker 1: what do you do? Pull it harder? And he seated
Speaker 1: it in there quite well. Um and I had to
Speaker 1: go and they had to cut it out of there.
Speaker 1: But when you're when your thumb coughed real good, you
Speaker 1: don't just like you'd probably watch to a bar. This
Speaker 1: guy's dog, This is a funny story. So these guys
Speaker 1: are fishing in Minnesota in a boat and it's wavy.
Speaker 1: The dog sits on a crank bait, gets tangled up
Speaker 1: into crank bait and gets both of its back legs
Speaker 1: firmly snagged by the crank bait. That's a bad day.
Speaker 1: The dad is trying to restrain the dog and the
Speaker 1: dogs going ballistic as they do, and pretty soon gets
Speaker 1: its tongue thumb coughed to the same crank bait. Mm
Speaker 1: hm and nod to like to do the dog and
Speaker 1: get into the beach pound dog. Forty five minutes finally
Speaker 1: out at the beach and we're able to get some
Speaker 1: tools to get the dog's tongue and legs. I don't like.
Speaker 1: I don't like filming fishing for that reason. I get
Speaker 1: air that that thing is gonna I'm just gonna get up.
Speaker 1: Even a little fly just right in my face. I
Speaker 1: snagged an ex girlfriend on top of the head once.
Speaker 1: She didn't handle it well, I pulled it out. Um well,
Speaker 1: when you when you film deep drop, boys, we're just
Speaker 1: sending it right down in use circle hooks which don't
Speaker 1: snag people. That goes. You'll be safe on deep drop
Speaker 1: bright perfect. Well he's I might do two z's. Can't
Speaker 1: decide one last quick thing? Um uh. This guy wrote
Speaker 1: in its an interesting story where he works at a
Speaker 1: freight company. And this is a weird story. It's not
Speaker 1: something I don't think it's make believe because you wouldn't
Speaker 1: like make believe this story. It just wouldn't. It doesn't
Speaker 1: serve any purpose to make believe the story. He works
Speaker 1: for a freight company. We recently had some auto parts
Speaker 1: come in Okay and found a bird's nest in one
Speaker 1: of the parts. Not only were they live hatchling in
Speaker 1: the bird's nest. They took the problem to their operations manager,
Speaker 1: who told them just to load it up and send
Speaker 1: it along to the next stop. So as last he knew,
Speaker 1: there's a live baby bird and a bird nest in
Speaker 1: a piece of auto parts headed from Salt Lake City
Speaker 1: to Billings. His curiosity about this event stems from are
Speaker 1: there any laws against transporting hatchlings across state lines? M
Speaker 1: anyone matters what kind of bird it was. If it
Speaker 1: was if it was a game species, absolutely clutch up
Speaker 1: quail or something, mity song bird. You can't. I don't
Speaker 1: think you can miss mess with him. You can order
Speaker 1: up chickens and turkeys and stuff online. So if it
Speaker 1: was a chick it feels poultry. If it was a
Speaker 1: English sparrow, if it was a European startling, or if
Speaker 1: it was a street pigeon, I know you're cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If I was a member of like Peter or something,
Speaker 1: I would be scrambling to Billings trying to find them
Speaker 1: to resuscitate this baby bird. Save him. Okay, now we're ready.
Speaker 1: We're ready to go down to brass tacks. Do you
Speaker 1: know what that means? Clay brass tacks? I mean, I
Speaker 1: know what you're trying to say. What I think it
Speaker 1: comes from? Um my understanding? Is it in surveying? Uh?
Speaker 1: When they do a corner post mm hmm, they'll put
Speaker 1: down a corner post and it's got a piece of
Speaker 1: ending it. When you get down to brass tacks, there's
Speaker 1: like a circle of lead that you can do to
Speaker 1: like mark a corner poster thing to get down to
Speaker 1: brass tacks. If you want to get super detailed when
Speaker 1: it really counts, where on the top of that you
Speaker 1: can you will drive a tack I think this is true.
Speaker 1: You will drive attack into that circle to be like
Speaker 1: this is the spot, not this like two inch three
Speaker 1: inch wide thing, but this is the line property like it.
Speaker 1: So we're ready to get down to brass tacks. First,
Speaker 1: I have a quick listener. Note we did COVID. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been real pain. So we're going to have interrupt
Speaker 1: um on Wikipedia, which you know they have all the answers.
Speaker 1: There's four different versions of getting down to brass tacks.
Speaker 1: I don't even make a list there. You gotta edit
Speaker 1: that entry, Steve. I'd go in there now. I didn't
Speaker 1: even make a list of four. I'm throwing out the
Speaker 1: earliest at t Station says in eighteen sixty three Texas
Speaker 1: was that um in a hardware store or a draper
Speaker 1: shop that used to measure used to measure cloth in
Speaker 1: precise units and rather than just holding down and stretching
Speaker 1: it out with your arm to approximately one yard, they
Speaker 1: would pin it with a brass tack so they can
Speaker 1: measure it. I don't buy that for a second. There's
Speaker 1: also a practice of using brass tax to spell out
Speaker 1: the initials of the deceased on the top of their coffin.
Speaker 1: Another theory, adorning one's gun stock with brass taxes was
Speaker 1: common in the American West. True, but I don't buy it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then the last one was nothing about surveying in there.
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's sorry. That was the third one. I
Speaker 1: was just a further explanation. So there was three. Huh,
Speaker 1: we know what you're trying to say, Steve. We need
Speaker 1: to make a note, get in there and just to
Speaker 1: validate my stuff. What I'm gonna do is change it
Speaker 1: and then come back and edit this podcast. You don't
Speaker 1: I gonna write the whole thing before it comes out.
Speaker 1: How about this? How about this? Let's just get down
Speaker 1: to the nuts and bolts of it. Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1: But before we do that, I gotta explained a thing
Speaker 1: that happened. It was unfortunate. Um. So we had arranged
Speaker 1: to have Donald Trump Junior come in and record with us,
Speaker 1: but then we had a COVID scare on our end
Speaker 1: and the day of had to cancel. It was a
Speaker 1: physical visit in the studio, had a COVID scare on
Speaker 1: our and which turned out to be nothing. But like
Speaker 1: you know, I was. You know, everybody's had this, right,
Speaker 1: Like so and so was with so and so, and
Speaker 1: you know, and then you track it down caught up.
Speaker 1: We got caught up in a web. I was positive
Speaker 1: for like the last night, yet the day of the
Speaker 1: three days prior to yesterday, I knew I was positive,
Speaker 1: but you weren't, just because they put that things so
Speaker 1: far off your nose at her No, it's I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is. But I was at a wedding.
Speaker 1: Oh you just yeah, you told me. And then and
Speaker 1: then like midweek I've never had allergies, and midweek I
Speaker 1: developed this like just slightly running nose and um, like
Speaker 1: a slight tickle in my throat like a scratch, you know,
Speaker 1: like early in the morning. And then you know, late
Speaker 1: at night. I'm like, man, yeah, exactly. Or they're cutting
Speaker 1: the hay right now, and this they are cutting hay
Speaker 1: like a mofo in this valley right now putting some
Speaker 1: sanitized just here. What you're talking about, santizm, i'ner santized
Speaker 1: my lips too. Yeah. Anyways, Uh, when I got that
Speaker 1: test result back yesterday, I kind of walked out of there,
Speaker 1: my chest bopped down. Ray to go to the last
Speaker 1: guys because you got cleared. Yeah, yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: COVID free room right here. Bro. Uh now what was
Speaker 1: I saying? Scare? And and I was like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a tendency to protect your business and not tell anybody.
Speaker 1: But we told him and and they had to bail.
Speaker 1: Then uh, we rescheduled, and then he had a COVID
Speaker 1: scare on his end. It needed to be careful. So
Speaker 1: in the end we settled on a hotel. You call
Speaker 1: it skype. We had a skype conversation yesterday for thirty
Speaker 1: minutes or so, and so one's left being like, what
Speaker 1: you know, because this is like a podcast that we
Speaker 1: record in person, but there was extenuating circumstances where we
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. We still had a conversation, which was
Speaker 1: I think is uh was worthwhile, So we're going to
Speaker 1: put it on here so when you get done with this,
Speaker 1: you'll get done with this and then natal happened. Wow.
Speaker 1: So if all of a sudden is different people talking,
Speaker 1: don't be confused. It's not like he's sitting here the
Speaker 1: whole time we're ignoring him. It's just a It will
Speaker 1: probably sound different too, but that'll go on the end
Speaker 1: of this. So for you listeners one and like what happened,
Speaker 1: that's what happened. We didn't like, yeah, thirty minutes. This
Speaker 1: is like a ninety minute, two hour show. So we're
Speaker 1: just left scratching our head. So that's what we're gonna
Speaker 1: We're gonna put it on the end of the interview.
Speaker 1: All right. Maybe a few people know who Donald Trump Jr.
Speaker 1: Is the reason I wanted to talk to you, among
Speaker 1: other reasons. Uh, and we'll get into this is one.
Speaker 1: I thought about him a great deal after he was
Speaker 1: on a hunting trip with Jason Harrison, who was a
Speaker 1: founder both Sitka and Cooe You Holding companies. They were
Speaker 1: on a hunting trip and um, yeah, Jason Harrison took
Speaker 1: his own life like days after the hunting trip and
Speaker 1: nothing hardly. I please don't think I'm trying to make
Speaker 1: this about me in some way like that tragedy. But
Speaker 1: I thought about Don Jr. Because I had similarly had
Speaker 1: spent a week with a very close friend of mine
Speaker 1: and he went home and killed himself. And the amount
Speaker 1: of uh second guessing and analyzing everything that was said
Speaker 1: to you and reading into you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And so having been through that and then knowing that
Speaker 1: he had that happened to him, I empathized with what
Speaker 1: that the kind of like burden that puts on someone. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's a writer, Ian Frasier, who's a wonderful writer. You
Speaker 1: should read it. We should read his book Great Planes.
Speaker 1: But Ian Frasier was one time writing a profile on
Speaker 1: a steelhead fishing guide and um who people he was
Speaker 1: always out in the sun in Oregon and didn't wear
Speaker 1: a shirt and people he was he went by steel
Speaker 1: Head Joe, but people jokingly called him Melanoma Joe because, uh,
Speaker 1: he didn't do anything to protect himself from the sun. Anyways,
Speaker 1: Ian Fraser's profiling, I mean, while he's doing the profile,
Speaker 1: the guy kills himself. And they had been on a
Speaker 1: river trip camping and h one night, Ian Frasier woke
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night to take a
Speaker 1: whiz and climbs out of his tent to take a
Speaker 1: whiz and realizes that Steelhead Joe is up standing on
Speaker 1: the edge of the river staring into the river in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, and then shortly after killed himself,
Speaker 1: killed himself, and he said it was like I got
Speaker 1: like a preview of him as a ghost, and you know,
Speaker 1: he left like untangled, Like what was that moment? Like
Speaker 1: you know, mhm, which just hard. It's hard on people.
Speaker 1: So I want to talk to about that, and also
Speaker 1: want to talk to because I think that he's, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he's probably the most widely known, outspoken hunter
Speaker 1: maybe in the world at this point. Really do you think? So,
Speaker 1: I mean, give me number, who's who's in competition with him? Well,
Speaker 1: Yanni next to Yanni, but he's already on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to hearing that. Uh So, what do
Speaker 1: you think of our trip this spring Man? It was
Speaker 1: great even't had a chance to catch up on it.
Speaker 1: We haven't to review it. We got the business done
Speaker 1: and got out pretty quick. But it was a it
Speaker 1: was a great hunt. I love spring bear hunting in Montana.
Speaker 1: That was my fourth you know, quote unquote do it
Speaker 1: yourself spring bear hunt in Montana. UM. The second time
Speaker 1: that I've brought my mules up and hunted, and uh,
Speaker 1: it's a tough hunt. It's a tough hunt. You can
Speaker 1: sure as heck go to Montana and not come home
Speaker 1: with a bear. I would go so far as to say, um,
Speaker 1: if you're doing it for your first time, I would
Speaker 1: go so far as to say, play not not seen one.
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of there's a learning curve. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, the same way if like someone's gonna, like,
Speaker 1: you know, go out to Colorado for their first archery
Speaker 1: elk hunt, you'd be like, it might take you a couple, Yeah,
Speaker 1: take you a couple at bats to get that whole.
Speaker 1: The challenges are so we're all now so connected to
Speaker 1: so many people, And so I started kind of connecting
Speaker 1: with some guys in Montana. And if you're a local
Speaker 1: guy in Montana and you can drive out every afternoon
Speaker 1: thirty minutes and you know, going spot for bears and
Speaker 1: and really know the country, that guy, as a bear
Speaker 1: hunter or as any kind of hunter is way different
Speaker 1: than the guy that's driving twelve hundred miles to spend
Speaker 1: six days that he picked out on a calendar four
Speaker 1: months before. In hunting, you know, so I mean like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of local, local guys that I mean
Speaker 1: are passing up bears and are seeing lot of bear
Speaker 1: and so you kind of get this feeling about you know,
Speaker 1: this may not be that as hard as you would think.
Speaker 1: And uh but coming up here on your own and
Speaker 1: and I had some help, you know, the Springs, Justin
Speaker 1: and Rebecca Spring, they've been big allies of mine on
Speaker 1: the barefront for all these years. I've kind of base camps. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they've they've they've they've kind of given me the
Speaker 1: you know, they're like, check out this area, do this.
Speaker 1: But overall it's been doing yourself stuff and I love it, man,
Speaker 1: I really do. You know, everybody talks about bear hunting
Speaker 1: and trying to compare it to elk hunting or mule
Speaker 1: deer hunting, your spotting stock in the West, And Yanni
Speaker 1: even said it while we were hunting. He said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sucking his injergy. The the there's not as much action,
Speaker 1: like you're not watching game all day. But to me,
Speaker 1: that's why it's so cool, because you set there for
Speaker 1: you know, and mean we can get into the details
Speaker 1: of what we were actually doing, but from an overall perspective.
Speaker 1: You know, you're sitting there for eight hours and see nothing,
Speaker 1: and so then when you do see a bear, it's
Speaker 1: it's I think that's an incredible feeling. I think it's uh.
Speaker 1: I think it's uh. I think that's actually what people
Speaker 1: say they don't like a bear? What about BARRONI is, well,
Speaker 1: actually what I like about it? You know, uh, it's
Speaker 1: that's a good thing because from filming it, um I
Speaker 1: approached filming it with a high degree of skepticism. I
Speaker 1: sensed that while we're hunting, well, I um, I enjoyed
Speaker 1: the dickens of it. We we devoted years ago, my
Speaker 1: brother and I devoted ourselves quite heavily to it for
Speaker 1: a lot of years, and we would we would be
Speaker 1: that two of us, hunting very heavily, would kill a
Speaker 1: bear every other year, hunting hard for spring season. And
Speaker 1: you guys lived here and there's yeah, and there's no
Speaker 1: other let me you see him and have missed opportunity.
Speaker 1: But like when it was like if you really went
Speaker 1: and looked at like this block of of ten years, um,
Speaker 1: when we like that was our spring thing. This is
Speaker 1: before we even got a lot of it was before
Speaker 1: we got into Turkey Hunt. It was like our our
Speaker 1: spring thing. Um when when you really like laid it out,
Speaker 1: it's like that was our that was our pattern like
Speaker 1: two and I think you'd find that's pretty true like
Speaker 1: bear hunting partners that are kind of like low not
Speaker 1: not doing two week vacations but hitting and when you
Speaker 1: can hit it going on on the weekends. If if um,
Speaker 1: every other spring we get one. And so for filming, it's, uh,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a difference between hunting and hunting and filming,
Speaker 1: like there's an obligation to audience, you know, and so
Speaker 1: you just want to make sure this stuff happening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and the ones, the episodes that we do where
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff happening just go together very painlessly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You guys had two previous bear hunt episode or that
Speaker 1: you were working to make episodes, right, we'd filmed two
Speaker 1: other ones and well another No, we we've had great
Speaker 1: there's other states, like you know, you go to Alaska
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have action to Montana bear hunts that
Speaker 1: no bear you ended up. So this was the third
Speaker 1: third go as a high country cameraman. Rick. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: also it's like like you're a bear enthusiast. Were you here? So?
Speaker 1: Are you conflicted? As a high country cameraman to be
Speaker 1: We're gonna go film a bear episode, are you? Are
Speaker 1: you like, I hope we get one because that will
Speaker 1: make a good episode, or you're like, I hope they
Speaker 1: don't get one because I'm a bear enthusiast. I'm conflicted
Speaker 1: for sure, walk me through it. Um, I'm a bar
Speaker 1: enthusiast two, but just of a different flavor. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think there's I think with I mean, outside of
Speaker 1: my own confliction over or conflict over bear hunt. And
Speaker 1: I think I've talked to other hunters that also are
Speaker 1: like I've went on a bear hunt or I've shot
Speaker 1: a bear and are also conflicted. So this isn't just
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's some somewhat a universal to
Speaker 1: some degree that there's a a different uh issue versus
Speaker 1: filming an elk cunt. And and it's divisive. It's the
Speaker 1: it's devisive and in my view, unnecessarily. So. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I though, I mean, I've filmed bears just as like
Speaker 1: a wildlife filmmaker where you're just watching. I'm just watched
Speaker 1: bears more than I'm watched any other animal you explained
Speaker 1: with that, I'll do it for you. Like Smithsonian, Like
Speaker 1: there's a Smithsonian show right now, uh called Epic Yellowstone,
Speaker 1: And I spent multiple seasons, multiple weeks filming the same
Speaker 1: individuals over the course a few years. Grizly bears interactions, yeah,
Speaker 1: interactions and behavior and they're all habituated to something a
Speaker 1: little facial expressions that they can manipulate to make it
Speaker 1: seem as though they have facial expressions. Well, you can
Speaker 1: watch the show and then I think they did a
Speaker 1: great job. Just there's some cool stuff like a coyote
Speaker 1: spooking up an elk calf and then that elk calf
Speaker 1: runs into a pair of grizzly bears that I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't see that, but I got them feeding on
Speaker 1: that carcass like right away. Really just cool stuff that
Speaker 1: you wouldn't normally see from less than a hundred yards.
Speaker 1: So that's a great job. You've got a great job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's totally cool. But so going on a hunt of
Speaker 1: a bear, it's definitely makes me think a good close
Speaker 1: look at him if it works out, yeah, which which
Speaker 1: I'm not against. But ultimately I do this job because
Speaker 1: I like to get exposed to things that I personally
Speaker 1: wouldn't do, Like, you know, I'm not a hunter, but
Speaker 1: I get to like it's almost like I'm a an ethnographer,
Speaker 1: Like I get to come along and observe you guys,
Speaker 1: and you're basically culture and something that I I you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up in the suburbs and outside of Seattle
Speaker 1: that I was never exposed to growing up or even
Speaker 1: into my through my twenties, rickeys to have job restringing
Speaker 1: tennis racket. Yeah, I've and I worked as a tennant
Speaker 1: to get the cat instructor you know, like very different
Speaker 1: than growing up trapping things like I didn't do that
Speaker 1: as a kid, but like going along trapping Beaver, Um,
Speaker 1: I mean I like Beaver and I like him not dead,
Speaker 1: but I really enjoyed going along seeing how it all
Speaker 1: tell everybody about your hat? Howest my favorite possession. So
Speaker 1: there's yeah, it's fantastic in his pocket right now. And
Speaker 1: I mentioned this stuff at dinner parties and people look
Speaker 1: at me, like the room stops like what I'm like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a beaver hat, but those beer are gonna
Speaker 1: get killed by somebody. And I normally don't get a hat.
Speaker 1: But if I go along and film it and I
Speaker 1: know the guy that's trapping him, and I have I
Speaker 1: get to participate. Like this stuff goes on whether or
Speaker 1: not we like it or not or whatever. But you
Speaker 1: know what, I but you're you're arguably complicit. Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a conflict with you know, I
Speaker 1: like a lot bare other than I like a dead bear,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean really yeah, yeah, I mean you know,
Speaker 1: so if you can milk them for bear grease, would
Speaker 1: you yeah? You know. And the other thing that you
Speaker 1: you go along with people are like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: people always ask me, well does it taste good? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I haven't had an animal that doesn't taste good,
Speaker 1: so and the answer is yes. And then you get
Speaker 1: into the history of like now that we can manufacture
Speaker 1: fats so easy out of vegetable oil and whatnot, Like
Speaker 1: it's just this we are constantly basically like trying to
Speaker 1: get less fat as a society. But uh, that's not
Speaker 1: true anymore a hundred years ago. That's good for you now.
Speaker 1: But so I think that I predict that sugar will
Speaker 1: become good for you soon. I love sugar. But but
Speaker 1: having Clay somebody that's very passionate about this activity explain
Speaker 1: kind of the holistic history of of bear hunting and
Speaker 1: the uses of of bear fat, and like, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: so into having more knowledge about a subject than being
Speaker 1: like I disagree with this or I'm just not gonna
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna pretend that and not engage. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's very helpful. So like I'm now, I can't
Speaker 1: imagine myself ever going on a bear hunt, but I would.
Speaker 1: I would happily go film another one. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand black bears in the US. I think
Speaker 1: there's thirty thousand in Maine. I mean there's a lot
Speaker 1: of black bears. I don't know what you would usually
Speaker 1: think it was from continental wide, you know, eight hundred
Speaker 1: thousand to a million black bears. Yeah, so yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean this, there's an astounding number of black bears. Um. So,
Speaker 1: you know, we kill a lot of other things, and
Speaker 1: we make arbitrary dividing lines about yeah, about what we
Speaker 1: choose to kill and not kill. I mean, there is
Speaker 1: an interesting idea that that you know, because black bears
Speaker 1: are omnivores or prettors are more similar to us, and
Speaker 1: they potentially have diseases that we don't want um, which
Speaker 1: maybe is where some of the like we don't eat
Speaker 1: black bear thing came from. I don't know where people
Speaker 1: don't exactly. So it's it's interesting where we divide where
Speaker 1: we choose to divide those those lines. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: bears are very humanlike, uh, much more so than I
Speaker 1: would than a than an elk. Just their anatomy right
Speaker 1: that you like standing up. They they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: people think they're sasquatch. Tell people what you and Cal
Speaker 1: were doing for Cal's weekend reviews. So we're traveling traveling, Yeah,
Speaker 1: traveling grizzly bears last week with Idaho Fish and Game
Speaker 1: and to pull like biometric. Yeah. It's part of the
Speaker 1: Inner Agency Grizzly Bear Study Team, which is a collection
Speaker 1: of of all the state agencies the federal agencies that
Speaker 1: the studies have been going on in Yellowstone since the
Speaker 1: I think late sixties, early seventies. The Craigheads who basically
Speaker 1: developed collar you know location call it radio colors and
Speaker 1: usually better as I think we're the only animals that
Speaker 1: could carry this thing around. At the time, it was
Speaker 1: like a giant transmitter. But you guys worked two bears
Speaker 1: and one of them was seventeen and one of them
Speaker 1: and so that's a see. That's like the point I
Speaker 1: was gonna bringu because I used to argue, Like when
Speaker 1: when I used to try to understand when I used
Speaker 1: to argue with people who would be like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's not comfortable shooting a bear. I think, okay, what
Speaker 1: is it? And like, wow, they're very wide range, you know,
Speaker 1: they have such a big home ranger. We talked about
Speaker 1: the wolverines too. It's like because they roll them all over,
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, caribou are the there they have the
Speaker 1: they have the biggest migration pattern um of any North
Speaker 1: American uh land mammal. And you don't have a problem
Speaker 1: hunting cariboo, right, Like, oh no, They'd be like they
Speaker 1: get so old and you'd be like, but there's been
Speaker 1: cow elk. They're twenty years old. You know a problem
Speaker 1: hunting elk? Right? No, Well that's that right, and you
Speaker 1: go down this path. But I was some of the
Speaker 1: other day and they weren't. I didn't engage in this
Speaker 1: whole game with them, but they were pointing out that
Speaker 1: they just get so old. I mean, it makes it
Speaker 1: makes people think differently about it. Yeah, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we just kind of choose things like we don't need horses,
Speaker 1: we don't need dogs, were just like, but other people do,
Speaker 1: and they might look at us like why not, why
Speaker 1: don't you eat your horses? Like that's crazy? So I mean,
Speaker 1: I I still you know, I mean, I have a
Speaker 1: thing of bear lard in my fridge right now. That
Speaker 1: I didn't, I wouldn't think I would have had that.
Speaker 1: Like if I thought of my future self, I would
Speaker 1: be like, Oh, there's gonna be a point where you're
Speaker 1: gonna be making pies with bear lard. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm gonna do with it. Probably I gave
Speaker 1: that to you, didn't. I just remember I was like,
Speaker 1: where do you get large? No? And I was, it's
Speaker 1: really an amazing, clean, real fat It's great. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think, I think, I think a big part of
Speaker 1: what makes no sense that that actually hunters, And I
Speaker 1: can understand a non hunter kind of feeling this way
Speaker 1: that way, but for a hunter man black bears are thriving.
Speaker 1: I mean, whatever is happening ecologically on the North American
Speaker 1: continent we can say all the different things that are happening.
Speaker 1: Black bears are thriving. I mean almost every population of
Speaker 1: bears is for sure stable, but most of them are increasing,
Speaker 1: I mean and expanding in range and expanding the range.
Speaker 1: I mean southern Missouri. You know, I talked with the
Speaker 1: expanding south, the north. They're expanding north and the south.
Speaker 1: They're expanding west and the east and east and the west.
Speaker 1: So I mean, even if you look at it from
Speaker 1: a position of of of logic and management, I mean,
Speaker 1: these these animals, there's only so much habitat the country
Speaker 1: is there's only so much suitable bear habitat in the country.
Speaker 1: And I mean, these animals are expanding, and you know,
Speaker 1: to be able to didn't want to just turn up
Speaker 1: in Iowa. Well, there was a bear that traveled from
Speaker 1: like Wisconsin down to down to Missouri and they've been
Speaker 1: tracking it and it's been on like a hundreds of miles.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't remember how far. Really saw pictures
Speaker 1: of it. It's just a big loop through Missouri as
Speaker 1: far as you can see. And there's like a black
Speaker 1: dot in the in the middle of it. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: you know, so why wouldn't we build this idea, which
Speaker 1: is very true, that bear meat is an incredible meat
Speaker 1: these animals, um, you know, I mean that's the foundation
Speaker 1: right there. I mean, the reason why we hunt these
Speaker 1: other animals for the meat and bear meats incredible. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a resource that's expanding. It's a resource that
Speaker 1: we can take the cream off the top. You know,
Speaker 1: harvesting ten percent of the animals out of a population
Speaker 1: is going to typically stabilize that population. And if those
Speaker 1: populations aren't stabilized by hunters, those bears will die in
Speaker 1: some way. I mean they will, they be euthanized, they'll
Speaker 1: be hit by cars, which is a surplus. It's gonna
Speaker 1: absolutely I mean when you think about it, like like
Speaker 1: in the like in the Arkansas Ozarks, Missouri, there's only
Speaker 1: so much habitat there and those bears are going out
Speaker 1: in every direction. So you know, the idea that hunters
Speaker 1: could come in and make this really valuable. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: culture inside of hunting, keeping the meat, keeping the hide,
Speaker 1: bear fat, bear claws, bear chaps, you got genuine bear chaps,
Speaker 1: now man hair out. The thing is that you run
Speaker 1: up against is that, as you brought up, there's a
Speaker 1: point at which there's there's a disconnect from logic, meaning
Speaker 1: you could go to Americans, like years ago when there
Speaker 1: was a big drought in uh, you know, a big
Speaker 1: drought in California, grain prices, hay was hard, hay was scarce. Right,
Speaker 1: people were trying to dump horses. Uh, it was expensive
Speaker 1: to keep them. Right, it was big problems. You could
Speaker 1: be like, dude, there's a lot of horses, they're really inexpensive.
Speaker 1: UM meats great, they love it. In Japan they love it.
Speaker 1: And what's that country close to Russia they eat a
Speaker 1: lot of that's like the number one horse, Like Kazakh
Speaker 1: stigns the number one horse country horse eating place. But
Speaker 1: people wouldn't do it. And people are gonna be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm not really trying to have a debate with
Speaker 1: you about whether or not there's like a lot of
Speaker 1: horses around to eat. I don't want to eat a horse.
Speaker 1: And I think that there's certain people that you're going
Speaker 1: to convince by saying that, you know, it's a wild
Speaker 1: game species. We have a harvesta bowl surplus um. People
Speaker 1: want it. Why not we let them have it? You know,
Speaker 1: we we manage all our other game species that way.
Speaker 1: Why should they be an exception. But some people just
Speaker 1: gonna be like, I don't need a horse, man um,
Speaker 1: and I don't care how many horses are running around. Uh,
Speaker 1: and you're just never gonna get there with them. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not putting this as your problem. Yeah no, But
Speaker 1: because the horse is just a farther extension of that,
Speaker 1: these arbitrary lines that Rick was just mentioning, and and
Speaker 1: bears are closer to if there's a scale, bears are
Speaker 1: closer to an elk than they are towards or they're
Speaker 1: like they fall between an elk and a horse right
Speaker 1: in most people's minds. And I'm very guilty of it.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's not because I because I
Speaker 1: didn't grow up with bear hunting. Too many teddy bears
Speaker 1: on my bed as a kid. I mean, all sorts
Speaker 1: of reasons. But the more I know about it, and
Speaker 1: like when you tell me, I don't forget which one
Speaker 1: of you two told me that back in the day,
Speaker 1: the settlers they didn't want to you know, dear meat,
Speaker 1: they want to bear meat. They just used the deer
Speaker 1: for the hides. Right. Well, I'm not I'm not saying
Speaker 1: I'm just a perfect example of someone that sort of
Speaker 1: for for an arbitrary reason, Like it was kind of
Speaker 1: like uneasy about killing and eating a bear. And the
Speaker 1: more I know about it, the more I do about it.
Speaker 1: So I'm just getting drawn in and I'm big, I'm
Speaker 1: getting in. It's becoming more and more comfortable. You know.
Speaker 1: The problem for us if if our position is to
Speaker 1: you know, and I think it is, I think we
Speaker 1: can say this is the Meteor podcast. If our position
Speaker 1: is to defend the North American model of wildlife conservation
Speaker 1: and and we're saying, hey, this is the most successful
Speaker 1: wildlife husbandry effort of all time, then there's a problem
Speaker 1: when there's a problem with one sector of it, you know.
Speaker 1: So the problem with it, you know, it's it's different
Speaker 1: than a you know, like making the analogy of it
Speaker 1: being like a horse is that. I mean, it just
Speaker 1: presents a problem when people don't And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: nine hunters. I get that nine hunters may not want
Speaker 1: to eat a bear. I'm totally cool with that. No. Um,
Speaker 1: I am a bear hunter. I will defend it all
Speaker 1: day long. But I also think you might that it, Um,
Speaker 1: you must well like talk openly and discuss where people
Speaker 1: are at on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: that I guess I'm like that comfortable in my convictions
Speaker 1: that I can sit down and verbalize and imagine what
Speaker 1: a contrary viewpoint would be without like losing my ship,
Speaker 1: which a lot of people don't have like these like
Speaker 1: supposedly deeply held convictions, but they kind of fall apart
Speaker 1: the minute they're confronted with the obligations at least consider
Speaker 1: where someone else is coming from, and then you left
Speaker 1: to think like how much of they thought this through
Speaker 1: that that makes them that uncomfortable. Yeah, we have we
Speaker 1: have the scale where like you know a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of people are don't eat that much meat,
Speaker 1: but they'll eat fish. They're okay with fish dying. And
Speaker 1: then they don't have eyebrows eyelash. Yeah, so there's there's
Speaker 1: they have a scale where they're like, oh, this sort
Speaker 1: of animal because teams furthest removed from my experience, And
Speaker 1: then you get to pray animals and you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: okay with the prey animal because they're kind of like
Speaker 1: not that aware or maybe not that like on the
Speaker 1: sentience scale. They're like, I don't know, seem seem a
Speaker 1: little more simplistic than as you move up and bears
Speaker 1: and pigs that would include in that same thing. They're
Speaker 1: like fully emotional creatures. I mean in my view where
Speaker 1: and I think people would argue that they're they're more
Speaker 1: intelligent than some of the then some of the lower animals.
Speaker 1: Like have we told you the story of beans the pig? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was there, Yeah, yeah no, But so in my mind,
Speaker 1: like people have no problem eating bacon, like in in
Speaker 1: the moment, I mean, in these pigs that are raised
Speaker 1: in industrial food conditions, they're pretty horrific. But then they're
Speaker 1: real up in arms about a bear that lived its
Speaker 1: whole life in the woods doing its thing until that last.
Speaker 1: That's a good point because that's one thing people are like,
Speaker 1: that's that's the thing that like collapses vegetarians all the
Speaker 1: time because they can't resist the bacon pop culture. Like
Speaker 1: people are like bacon, bacon, bacon, and it's all like
Speaker 1: from the like you see those videos of them being
Speaker 1: like squeezed together and those massive slaughter operations, and you're like,
Speaker 1: I need to not eat this stuff at all, but
Speaker 1: I can't stop. Yeah, you know, it's it's hard, but
Speaker 1: I would make the argument that people probably should not
Speaker 1: eat bacon and go occasionally bear hunting. There you go,
Speaker 1: stop eating if you want to be ethically and philosophically,
Speaker 1: stop any bacon and start as they don't want to
Speaker 1: do either. I'm totally for it. I would I just
Speaker 1: want to throw here as a devil's advocate. If Americans,
Speaker 1: if America's bacon needs were to be satisfied with black bears,
Speaker 1: it would be impossible. I think that we would be
Speaker 1: out of them, and Clay would be out of a passion.
Speaker 1: He'd be a passionless man within six months. And this
Speaker 1: is the other thing that we need to come to
Speaker 1: grips with. We cannot eat things like bacon for breakfast, lunch,
Speaker 1: and dinner. It's like made. It's like an American right,
Speaker 1: Like I deserve this much meat every day, all day long.
Speaker 1: I mean the world is basically wanting to do that
Speaker 1: as well, and it has serious ramifications. Did you notice
Speaker 1: me jokingly sanitize my lips without hand sanitizer. I do
Speaker 1: not recommend that. Man. It gave me instantly chapped lips
Speaker 1: between the time said yeah, that's not safe. And I
Speaker 1: didn't even really do it that much. I just did
Speaker 1: it to make my joke. I felt that it was funny,
Speaker 1: and so I just did a little bit of it.
Speaker 1: You're taking to heart the ingesting, disinfecting, that's my COVID
Speaker 1: hot tip. This is a COVID hot tip off. Don't
Speaker 1: sanitize your lips. That's the stuff Perel advanced. You just
Speaker 1: need some light therapy, Steve. I think what Janice was
Speaker 1: saying was just his his knowledge levels increasing and having
Speaker 1: some exposure to bear and bear hunting and people that
Speaker 1: are using bears like that, that is increasing his like
Speaker 1: he's seeing, he's beginning beginning to see it in a
Speaker 1: different light. And that's what I see happening all over
Speaker 1: the place. I mean, I have people I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: say daily because that's not true, but constantly emailing me whatever, saying, man,
Speaker 1: I never even thought about bear hunting, but now I am.
Speaker 1: And and right in their home state or right within
Speaker 1: you know, some driving distance, they've got this incredible opportunity
Speaker 1: to bear hunt, and so they're starting to be And man,
Speaker 1: that's what we have won. When I say we, I
Speaker 1: mean Bear Hunting Magazine, which is which is me and
Speaker 1: one other dude, Kobe moorehead uh we have wanted to
Speaker 1: reform and change the branding of bear hunting in North America.
Speaker 1: You know, just bring bring it up. You know, so
Speaker 1: much opportunity, such great meat that people still don't understand,
Speaker 1: such history, such such challenge, unique challenge that's way different
Speaker 1: than hunting an ungulate, hunting an antlered animal, you know, which,
Speaker 1: not taking anything away from that because I love hunting those,
Speaker 1: but anyway, it's just this unique thing. So I think
Speaker 1: people think people are starting to see it. I mean
Speaker 1: I have seen a increase in or noticed an increase
Speaker 1: in media coverage of you know, pro bear stuff. I
Speaker 1: mean just in an outdoor section, outdoor world. So but
Speaker 1: I also think it's part the opportunity is is and
Speaker 1: people are looking for a way to be a hunter
Speaker 1: year round, and so much of our traditional honey is
Speaker 1: just in the fall. And you can spring bear hunt
Speaker 1: I think in nine states and then all most of
Speaker 1: the Conti provinces. I think it's nine states and most
Speaker 1: of them, well, yeah, in Maine you can hunt on
Speaker 1: some uh uh tribal lands there in Maine there's a
Speaker 1: spring hunt. But basically there's this opportunity to hunt big
Speaker 1: game in May and June and people people are you know,
Speaker 1: went back when and you know in the seventies eighties
Speaker 1: when my dad was growing up serious deer hunters, deer
Speaker 1: hunted for you know, thirty forty days and the well,
Speaker 1: they focused on it for three months during the year.
Speaker 1: The rest of the year hunting was just like not
Speaker 1: on the radar. Now people are wanting to do stuff
Speaker 1: year round, so you know, bear hunting gives an opportunity
Speaker 1: to do that walk This is a little bit of
Speaker 1: spoiler alert because we're making a show about this, but
Speaker 1: Clay got a bear walk through because it's kind of
Speaker 1: a good example of like what walk through the bear
Speaker 1: you got, because it's a good example of how a
Speaker 1: spring bear strategy, how spring bear hunting works. And you know,
Speaker 1: every day's got different rules and wyoming. You can bait
Speaker 1: bears in Idaho, you can bait bears. You can hunt
Speaker 1: bears with hounds. Um in this state you can't use bait,
Speaker 1: can't use dogs. Yeah, well, well we go through the
Speaker 1: unsuccessful Yeah, because that is thing that's almost maybe even
Speaker 1: more telling of some spring bear tips. Yeah, talk about
Speaker 1: the successful story is interesting. We packed back in on
Speaker 1: mules five miles. Steve and I were riding mules. Um
Speaker 1: stink Cole Creek. Stink Cole Creek. Yeah, that's where it was.
Speaker 1: And we uh so we packed back in five miles
Speaker 1: and and we were what we were looking for is
Speaker 1: we were looking for green vegetation. Essentially, when you're spring
Speaker 1: bear hunting, these bears are feeding on green vegetation. We
Speaker 1: were looking for green vegetation. We hadn't seen any bears,
Speaker 1: so we didn't know what elevation they were gonna be.
Speaker 1: And the way that I like to describe it in
Speaker 1: the spring is that you're you're hunting the green up.
Speaker 1: So the higher elevations are not going to be green.
Speaker 1: Lower elevations are gonna be green, and the bears typically
Speaker 1: want to they're coming out of dinn and High typically
Speaker 1: going down into the green, but they seem to want
Speaker 1: to go back up. So it's almost like they followed
Speaker 1: this green up line, the green wave. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: we didn't really know what elevation that would be in
Speaker 1: but we me and you packed mules and uh and
Speaker 1: and I've got to I like not taking a pack animal.
Speaker 1: Usually when people think about hunting with a mule or horse, like,
Speaker 1: usually you have a pack animal that's dedicated to just
Speaker 1: carrying gear, and then you have an animal that you ride.
Speaker 1: I like to pack light and pack enough gear for
Speaker 1: three days and go back in with one man one mule,
Speaker 1: carrying a backpack full of gear, saddlebags full of gear,
Speaker 1: enough gear for three days camping stuff, go back in
Speaker 1: and if you see what you like, you can stay
Speaker 1: in there for up to three or four days. If
Speaker 1: you don't see what you like, you can get the
Speaker 1: heck out of there and go somewhere. So that's what
Speaker 1: we're doing. Went back in five miles within the first
Speaker 1: ten minutes of being at the glassing point where we
Speaker 1: could really see this country that we were wanting to hunt.
Speaker 1: I believe, honest, the eagle spotted a bear hundred yards
Speaker 1: away or now I was further than that it was.
Speaker 1: I think it was yards. I mean it was over
Speaker 1: a mile, almost a mile away. I would been farther that.
Speaker 1: I want to say that we did the It was
Speaker 1: a long ways away, A long ass getting over there
Speaker 1: to get eight hundred yards away. Yeah, my vision only
Speaker 1: really becomes focused at about eighteen hundred yards, so I
Speaker 1: know it had to be your eyes are on the
Speaker 1: side of your head like a meal focus out way
Speaker 1: out there now. So we we found this bear immediately
Speaker 1: once we get back in here, and it's a big
Speaker 1: it's a very nice big Montana bear. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember our conversation, but I wanted to
Speaker 1: go up higher because I felt like we were about
Speaker 1: to really get into the good stuff. And to me,
Speaker 1: that bear was kind of I knew it gonna be
Speaker 1: hard to get too. It was late enough in the
Speaker 1: day where it was you were going to get over there,
Speaker 1: we weren't gonna get over there. And so I don't
Speaker 1: know how long of a version of this story that
Speaker 1: you want, but medium well, we we we camped out.
Speaker 1: It was too late to go after the bear. We
Speaker 1: camped out the next morning. It's snow, yeah, snowed up there.
Speaker 1: We were at about hundred six thousand feet elevation where
Speaker 1: we camped. The bear was at forty feet elevation amidst
Speaker 1: another person's garbage pile. So we the next morning, rather
Speaker 1: than going after the bear, which may have been a mistake,
Speaker 1: I don't know, we we went way up to glass
Speaker 1: another area. That as a mistake, yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: did too. I just felt like if we could get
Speaker 1: over there. We were gonna look down in and see
Speaker 1: a bear three yards away. I mean, that's where I've
Speaker 1: been wanting to go. Was back where I took you
Speaker 1: that bear in the hand. Yeah, I remember, you said, Clay,
Speaker 1: this is in Alaska, this is Montana. We just walk
Speaker 1: past the spar so at eleven o'clock eleven am. We
Speaker 1: get back down to the exact spot where Jana spotted
Speaker 1: the bear and we see him again. He is I mean,
Speaker 1: that bear was staying in probably an eighties square yard
Speaker 1: area on the side of that mountain um and which
Speaker 1: which I think is kind of generally stays true. You
Speaker 1: talked to a lot of guys that have that experience.
Speaker 1: Early they just they find a spot, they have what
Speaker 1: they need, and they tend to not move around a lot.
Speaker 1: But as the as spring fades the summer um they
Speaker 1: the more options they have, the more they're they're gonna move.
Speaker 1: The later it gets into the spring, the more they're
Speaker 1: gonna be driven by breeding. So that bear was and
Speaker 1: that's why I love that early that time, early in
Speaker 1: the spring is that if you find a bear, you
Speaker 1: can kill him, you know, if if you don't get
Speaker 1: winded by him. But so we decided to make a
Speaker 1: play on the spar we have to go down into
Speaker 1: the drainage. So we're looking across like three ridges, probably
Speaker 1: two ridges, and we see this bear. So it's not
Speaker 1: like you can walk straight to him. So we drop
Speaker 1: off into the drainage, you know, probably walk close to
Speaker 1: a mile up a super thick drainage, then pop back
Speaker 1: up on the mountain. I'd call the willow choked hill hole. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so bad that it was preferable. The bottom
Speaker 1: is so bad that it was preferable to side hill
Speaker 1: across scree slides, which is not it's gotta be bad.
Speaker 1: When that's better than crick walking, that's a bad. We
Speaker 1: had a game trail. I feel like I'm saying like
Speaker 1: generally I would rather walk up a stream bottom than
Speaker 1: side hill on scree slides. And the game trails were ephemeral. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would come in, they would fade like here's a
Speaker 1: good trail, then like and also it's gone. Yeah it
Speaker 1: wasn't horrible, but yeah, just saying. So we we get
Speaker 1: down to about where we were using our onyx, so
Speaker 1: we we decided where we wanted to come back up
Speaker 1: the mountain to get a viewpoint of the bear. So
Speaker 1: we're in deep timber while we're walking in this drainage.
Speaker 1: Then we come back up the hill at this certain
Speaker 1: place and I don't know if you remember, but we
Speaker 1: split up. Me and Dirt went probably fifty sixty yards
Speaker 1: up the mountain and you guys stayed down low, And
Speaker 1: within ten minutes we spot the bear, still in the
Speaker 1: same place, still in the same place, middle of the day.
Speaker 1: It's two o'clock now, so it's like twenty hours later
Speaker 1: and he still hasn't moved. And at this point, I mean,
Speaker 1: we're in the chips big time. I mean we're yards away,
Speaker 1: eight hundred yards away. The wind is bad, but we're
Speaker 1: both were pretty confident that he's herd yards away so
Speaker 1: that we hold on, didn't we I thought we did
Speaker 1: this twice because we popped up like a thousand or
Speaker 1: eleven hundred, and then we didn't find him until we
Speaker 1: were right we found them at that point, and it
Speaker 1: was like the wind was bad. We are so far
Speaker 1: away that it was just what almost went without saying,
Speaker 1: We'll just stay here until the wind gets good, because
Speaker 1: how the hell is he gonna smell us from here? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then bad kind of wind, like not just like
Speaker 1: lightly blowing up the canyon. It was a gusty afternoon
Speaker 1: like kind of like you know, honking, like where if
Speaker 1: someone was more than you know, ten yards away, you
Speaker 1: probably have to raise your voice to communicate, right, And
Speaker 1: we're kind of down in the v notch of the
Speaker 1: valley and it's just washing all that warming air from
Speaker 1: the afternoon warmth is just a's an noise it makes
Speaker 1: for people at home, this is like, what's that thing
Speaker 1: where you play with beads and talk? Yeah, my brother
Speaker 1: likes SR. Yeah, it's kind of creepy. He was telling
Speaker 1: me he was listening to one where it's a someone
Speaker 1: cutting your hair. Dude, that's weird. That's real. D I
Speaker 1: almost feel should cut that out at you even know
Speaker 1: that's TV. Yeah, here's what it's like for people who
Speaker 1: like s m R. I what's it called MR? I think? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, which is a s m R. Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: out loup here, boys, Oh, you don't know about a SMR.
Speaker 1: It's like you listen to people have like a Russian
Speaker 1: woman playing with beads making noise, banging beads together and talking,
Speaker 1: and you listen to it to get your jollies, not
Speaker 1: that kind of jollies. Just people just listen to it
Speaker 1: because they like the way it sounds. It stands for
Speaker 1: autonomous sensory meridian response. It's like whisper, whisper. Do you
Speaker 1: ever hear something you like so much that it makes
Speaker 1: you get a tingly feeling in your head where it's
Speaker 1: like a wash, Like, here's what it sounds like. It's
Speaker 1: like tingo, tingo, tingle. Uh, common triggers, whispering, other auditory sounds.
Speaker 1: Rick could do that, dude, You keep talking to you
Speaker 1: that that's the wind blown up the hill. Well, hey,
Speaker 1: I've I've evaluated. Well, so we're set up up the
Speaker 1: hill eight yards from this bear. I spot the bear,
Speaker 1: Me and Dirt were way up above. You. Guys were
Speaker 1: the same distance up from the creek as the bear
Speaker 1: is up from the creek, even though he's up from us,
Speaker 1: because the whole thing is up right, I see what
Speaker 1: was extremely clear? Yes, yes, and there was a there
Speaker 1: was a wall, I mean the mountain opposite the creek
Speaker 1: of a steve. I've analyzed it since then. Why that
Speaker 1: bear smelled us if it had been like this wide valley.
Speaker 1: I don't think he would have smelled. It was a
Speaker 1: cliff face. I mean, any air coming through there was
Speaker 1: just gonna be going right to him. I honestly think
Speaker 1: that he was bedded down on the creek. Think he
Speaker 1: smelled us, and that's why he walked up When I
Speaker 1: first saw him. He was moving fast when I when
Speaker 1: I first spotted because I thought it was never relaxed
Speaker 1: when we saw him. When I saw him, he was.
Speaker 1: He was steadily moving up the hill at two in
Speaker 1: the afternoon, which I thought was weird, waving his nose
Speaker 1: in the air. Well, Eventually that's what he did. He
Speaker 1: put his head in the grass a couple of times,
Speaker 1: but then both of us were watching him when he
Speaker 1: he turned and faced us, and he just started bombing
Speaker 1: his head and me and you, I don't think we
Speaker 1: said it to each other, but I didn't. I I
Speaker 1: didn't like it. I didn't like it at all. But
Speaker 1: it was just improbable. They catched the wind in the
Speaker 1: very um They catched the wind in a way that
Speaker 1: doesn't leave a lot to the imagination. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: they're like, he's like that bear is smelling like literally
Speaker 1: waving its nose around up high like he's sampling the
Speaker 1: wind and he We watched him for just a few
Speaker 1: minutes after that, and then he he didn't just turn
Speaker 1: and walk away, which I thought he might have done.
Speaker 1: He turned and ran away, spent he spent twenty hours
Speaker 1: in one spot and then ran And it's not entirely
Speaker 1: fair though, if you're if you're trying to understand how
Speaker 1: big game animals smell, in their ability to smell, there
Speaker 1: were six of us there that all smelled terrible. If
Speaker 1: two people maybe we could have got away with it.
Speaker 1: What do you all think we could have? Certainly it
Speaker 1: takes take a rot and shrimp and throw that in
Speaker 1: your garbage, and take six rot and shrimp throw that
Speaker 1: in your garbage. At a point you get something needs
Speaker 1: to be dealt with, ye, So I was still I
Speaker 1: want to clarify though, just two points that I think
Speaker 1: need to be clarified here. Point one is that um,
Speaker 1: I was extremely surprised that he winded us at that distance.
Speaker 1: Point two is I have absolutely zero doubt that that's
Speaker 1: what happened. What happened? What do you mean that he
Speaker 1: win us? Oh? Yeah, sure, that's what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: have no doubt that he winded us. Yet I'm extremely
Speaker 1: surprised that he winded us. Yep, I thought we were safe.
Speaker 1: I would have thought we were safe. And what's tough
Speaker 1: about old bear? And that's how you get to be
Speaker 1: a big old bear. He knew what to do. He
Speaker 1: don't hang out, you know that. And that's the hard
Speaker 1: part about committing to a place like that is we
Speaker 1: pretty much knew that the hunt was over. Like we
Speaker 1: might have been able to find another bear in that drainage.
Speaker 1: And maybe if we had stayed in there for five days,
Speaker 1: I mean, we probably would have. But you guys, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, but I went back out
Speaker 1: and got a turkey shotgun because on the way up
Speaker 1: steaining Cole Creek. Yeah. Yeah, we're riding mules pretty deep in.
Speaker 1: We're used to seeing these turkeys close to the edges
Speaker 1: of agriculture or civilization in Montana. That's kind of the
Speaker 1: way it works. Oh they're yeah, they're like they're close
Speaker 1: to openings are so typically associated with human developments. They
Speaker 1: like ranches, they're like backyard feeders, they like cattle fattening operations.
Speaker 1: They like egg and they need and in the winter,
Speaker 1: you could one could get one could justify this statement
Speaker 1: in many areas of the state. They're not going to
Speaker 1: survive the winner without tapping into human resource. Mhm, fair. Fair.
Speaker 1: And so we found turkeys two and a half three
Speaker 1: miles back in on the way in, but we didn't
Speaker 1: have it. So we both have turkey tags. We hadn't
Speaker 1: said that yet. This was a dual hunt. That was
Speaker 1: that we had spring Montana spring bear tags in Montana
Speaker 1: turkey tags. And I would come and tell people here's
Speaker 1: a hot tip. Don't first, don't put that hand santas
Speaker 1: on your lips. Two, beware, beware the man who um
Speaker 1: thinks he's gonna go do a whole bunch of stuff
Speaker 1: all at once. Yeah, you could generally, generally makes sense
Speaker 1: to be like focuss just getting up in turkey hunting
Speaker 1: and then just picking in and like, oh, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do this and that, and then hell will fish too.
Speaker 1: It's just like a lot of times like it just
Speaker 1: it just leads to It can lead to some great experiences,
Speaker 1: but a lot of times it leads to some disjointed efforts.
Speaker 1: You know. I think the way that would work is
Speaker 1: if you we're successful at one very quickly, which sometimes happens.
Speaker 1: That's what you're some percentage of hunts, you're gonna take
Speaker 1: an animal on the first day of the second day.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, probably don't know thirty of hunts.
Speaker 1: You're gonna take an animal relatively quickly. And that's what
Speaker 1: I was thinking. I was thinking, Man, you know, if
Speaker 1: we if we get a bear on day two and
Speaker 1: we've still got three days, why wouldn't we turkey hunh
Speaker 1: That's why I had attack. And then because I just
Speaker 1: know from my experience in Montana doing what I'm doing, Kylie,
Speaker 1: you gotta hit the ground running and pound the dirt
Speaker 1: hard to kill a bear. So I wanted a turkey hunt.
Speaker 1: But I was like you, I mean, I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I hope we can. I hope we can focus our
Speaker 1: efforts enough that we are successful. And but we spring
Speaker 1: thunder on the way up. When there's one thing more
Speaker 1: enticing than a turkey, it's a turkey who surprises you
Speaker 1: with his whereabouts at That's it for me, that's it.
Speaker 1: It's it just has to be scratched, like like what
Speaker 1: because remember we passed that huge beaver dam. It was
Speaker 1: like the beaver dam of all beaver dams, the beaver Lodge.
Speaker 1: It was like if you close your eyes, just imagine
Speaker 1: like a mountain scene with a beaver living in it,
Speaker 1: and then out across that that already speaks my soul
Speaker 1: has already stirred, and then out across that or, as
Speaker 1: Robert Abernathy says, you guys are so focused on that
Speaker 1: mayor he decided not to pack a shotgun as it
Speaker 1: was just so hard to It was just so hard
Speaker 1: to package shotgun. And we didn't think we're gonna see
Speaker 1: a turkey. And there's legal things here too, where you
Speaker 1: got a bear hunt, you got a orange on turkey,
Speaker 1: and you don't want orange. So you're kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a little bit of like you gotta chance,
Speaker 1: you gotta kind of switch gears. There's a little gear switching.
Speaker 1: A plausible thing is that you're gonna hunt turkeys in
Speaker 1: the morning. If you were really in a honey, well,
Speaker 1: didn't you kill a turkey to bear in the same day? Seth?
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't personally. I didn't personally kill a turkey.
Speaker 1: My buddy Ford and Fawston, he works first like shot
Speaker 1: the turkey and then I shot the bear that evening. Yes,
Speaker 1: I said, you look out one side of your tent
Speaker 1: and your turkey hunt. You look at the other side
Speaker 1: of your tent and your bear hunt. Nice, Yeah, that's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fun. No spoiler alert, but sort of what happened
Speaker 1: to us? Well, so you should we walk through the
Speaker 1: turkey hunt, I ride back and get our shotgun, I
Speaker 1: leave your truck unlocked and all that um, and then
Speaker 1: we turkey out that next morning and find a bunch
Speaker 1: of birds called them right into the mules. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they know, they cold rolled into our mules. We we
Speaker 1: rode for an hour in the dark, parked the mules
Speaker 1: well ahead of where we thought the turkeys were, and
Speaker 1: sure enough, the turkeys were probably roosted a hundred yards
Speaker 1: from our mules. I mean, is that right. I don't
Speaker 1: know if they were already roosted or I mean if
Speaker 1: they were still roosted when we got there, because wasn't
Speaker 1: it a little after daylight? It was why we got there,
Speaker 1: like right at gobble time. I felt like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was dark. It's pretty funny because Seth and I,
Speaker 1: you know, turkey hunting and filming, the name of the
Speaker 1: game is usually like chopped down the crew as much
Speaker 1: as possible to just the minimum amount of cameras and
Speaker 1: for since you guys were hunting together, we had to
Speaker 1: have at least two. So it's you know, a big
Speaker 1: group as it is. So Seth and I are basically
Speaker 1: just gonna hang back at the mules. Were like getting
Speaker 1: food out and getting ready to getting ready to make
Speaker 1: some coffee, you know, around to a coffee and just
Speaker 1: gonna sit there and watch the woods light up, you know,
Speaker 1: from the morning sun. And you guys are just disappearing
Speaker 1: around the corner down the trail, going to where you
Speaker 1: think the birds are gonna be, and then all of
Speaker 1: sudden the opposite direction, like not a hundred yards away.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. So Seth and I then just shut ourselves
Speaker 1: down and hit the dirt, laid there and waited for
Speaker 1: you guys started working your way. And it was like
Speaker 1: these turkeys kind of like walk into the mules and
Speaker 1: you can picture him talk and being like, dude, I
Speaker 1: don't mean to be paranoid, but there's a couple of
Speaker 1: meals with saddles, and though I do hear a hen
Speaker 1: calling from those mules, I just don't. As a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, may be on one of the mules, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think we should gobble a whole bunch,
Speaker 1: but still move out of here. Yeah. So we spent
Speaker 1: the whole morning chasing those birds around and probably were
Speaker 1: within fifty sixty yards um several times. It just never
Speaker 1: could They just just never could make it happen, which
Speaker 1: was surprising to both of us, I think, because these
Speaker 1: are like wilderness gobblers that certainly had I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't imagine somebody else being back in their mess. It
Speaker 1: might be exceptions to my rule. I don't know, because
Speaker 1: the turkeys will move a long way. Yeah. Uh, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm just thinking of right now. For some reason. Um,
Speaker 1: we one time we're hunting moose and all laugh, twenty
Speaker 1: miles from the road and we killed a bull whose
Speaker 1: ass is full of bird shot. M hm ah. Healed
Speaker 1: up and I feel like gotten someone's garden. I mean,
Speaker 1: he could have got shot out in the woods. But
Speaker 1: I always you know, like you know, a nice thing.
Speaker 1: Turkeys don't move, But you talked to the turk. What's
Speaker 1: what's the Chamberlain, Mike turkey doc, He's got plenty of
Speaker 1: evidence contrary, Like you know, they don't always move, but
Speaker 1: they will move. So I was gonna say that these
Speaker 1: turkeys could be contenders for undoing my observation about turkeys
Speaker 1: needing a little help hereabouts in the winter. But if
Speaker 1: you told me that those turkeys were spent the winter
Speaker 1: ten miles away, I would be yeah, yeah, well, in
Speaker 1: those turkeys were only a couple of miles from the
Speaker 1: nearest house, from cabins and stuff. Yeah, that's true. They
Speaker 1: could you like onto a cabin where someone's just putting
Speaker 1: out corn for him, which happens. Yeah, yeah, I will
Speaker 1: say that Janice Patelis has a very impressive mouth crow call.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I hit it for him. Niow, wow, wow,
Speaker 1: can you believe it? Right? Man? Do the far off elk? Johnny?
Speaker 1: Do you hear this? This is what yannest is mostly
Speaker 1: famous for. That's some a s m R. I right there, man,
Speaker 1: that's an elk way far away. Do it again. I
Speaker 1: haven't even farther away. He's Here's when you know you're
Speaker 1: boned because he's moving farther away. You're like smiling, trying
Speaker 1: to smile, and you're like, I swear her to bugle,
Speaker 1: I swear her to bugle. Then he gets a little
Speaker 1: farther away. Hit men. Then you're like, we're never gonna
Speaker 1: get him. Um. Yeah, he's got a really impressive crow call.
Speaker 1: So much so then when we were trying to work
Speaker 1: these turkeys, we at one point we're trying to figure
Speaker 1: out where they were and wander down. Yanni stills hanging
Speaker 1: out by these mules we wanted way down the trail.
Speaker 1: Do like crow call, blue jay call, hybrid. I will
Speaker 1: call and then Yanni can hear us trying to shot
Speaker 1: gobble it up, and Yanni rips his crow call the
Speaker 1: bird gobbles bios. Yeah, what's funny is that we we
Speaker 1: pulled out everything we had to shot goblets. Bird didn't work,
Speaker 1: Yannick goblets. I can't say it now because I don't
Speaker 1: want people to get onto this, but my brother had
Speaker 1: an epiphany A shot gobble of piff need this year,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be very controversial, very divisive. But I'm
Speaker 1: gonna use it too, and I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: about what it is, Okay, So you just tells us that,
Speaker 1: so you could tell us. You can't tell us just
Speaker 1: I just want to rub people's noses in it. Very controversial,
Speaker 1: very divine. Is it a wild animal. It's a way
Speaker 1: that I will uh in in in the shot gobble world.
Speaker 1: I will dominate m I look forward to it's a
Speaker 1: it's a I don't want to go into great detail.
Speaker 1: It will not be ignored by turkeys or people. Very controversial.
Speaker 1: But I think you need I think you need something
Speaker 1: Steve rather than your blue Jay call. No, dude, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I like, I'm not. There's a lot of things I'm not.
Speaker 1: I am uh. I regard myself as relative to I've
Speaker 1: phoned out with some very good turkey hunters. I regard
Speaker 1: myself as if I had a turkey specialty. Besides like
Speaker 1: a certain level of gur which which I feel like
Speaker 1: I have when it comes to Turkey's enthusiasm, I have enthusiasm.
Speaker 1: I am a very effective getter of shot cobbles. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm very good at getting shot cobbles. It's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not a good caller. I'm not a good lot of stuff,
Speaker 1: but I am good at getting shot gobbles. Well, I
Speaker 1: can't wait until next year you can report back to
Speaker 1: us after you had a whole season with your new
Speaker 1: shot gobble getter. Because I don't know, I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things out there that people have already
Speaker 1: been doing that are very similar to that and don't
Speaker 1: say too much. I won't. I won't. I mean, we
Speaker 1: all know they shot gobble to all sorts are crazy,
Speaker 1: crazy sounds. Yeah yeah, m hm, so we so we
Speaker 1: chased these. I am not. I am. There's many things
Speaker 1: I'm not even in the turkey woods. Many things I'm not.
Speaker 1: Many areas where I fall short, calling being one of them.
Speaker 1: But I am a good getter of shotgulbs that enjoyed
Speaker 1: hunting with you for a couple of days. Man, many
Speaker 1: things I'm not. Okay, tell us about those ship Clay
Speaker 1: looked at a at the clock. We don't have another
Speaker 1: time for that, okay. So you guys didn't get a turkey,
Speaker 1: didn't really quit just in the interest of time, I wanna.
Speaker 1: So then I got real in turkey hunt on this trip.
Speaker 1: And then there was no stop in me on turkey hunting.
Speaker 1: And we started doing what is happens hereabouts a fair
Speaker 1: bit as we started hunting where um national forest land
Speaker 1: a butts the yards of people who love turkeys and
Speaker 1: feed them corn. All winter laws be damned, um. And
Speaker 1: that's like a that's like a it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a dirty secret. A lot of turkey hunt like Montana
Speaker 1: hunters opened up a lot of turkeys to find like
Speaker 1: sunflower seeds or corn, and there's like dogs barking doors,
Speaker 1: slamming people yelling at their kids. But you're on National
Speaker 1: forest Land hunting turkeys, birds, and you're trying. You're like
Speaker 1: aware of turkeys because you see them in the person's
Speaker 1: yard as an as an example, trutting on their green
Speaker 1: lawn as an example of this. And a bird that
Speaker 1: was so comfortable in someone's lawn. We saw that one
Speaker 1: bird strutting like what ten twenty yards from that golden retriever.
Speaker 1: Like I got burned on Montana turkeys. A golden story
Speaker 1: about those two and a golden retreat. Yeah. And here's
Speaker 1: the thing. Here's the thing. Like our hunt turkeys wherever
Speaker 1: they are. We get all kinds of emails and people
Speaker 1: be like, I can't tell if it's right that I'm
Speaker 1: hunting the golf course. I'm like, if those are turkey
Speaker 1: and you have legal access hunt the turkey, it's just
Speaker 1: the it's just the reality. But we are actively there's
Speaker 1: a dog, there's a turkey hanging out with a dog,
Speaker 1: and we're trying to bring that bird up there. There's
Speaker 1: a guy cutting firewood too, and we're trying to lure
Speaker 1: his bird up as a different day and a totally
Speaker 1: different I just got all into I'm saying at that point,
Speaker 1: I was hunting turkeys. Yeah, So so we came out
Speaker 1: of this deep country where we were after Yeah, so
Speaker 1: we came back and that's when we said, hey, we
Speaker 1: need to split up. So I went bear hunting and
Speaker 1: you went turkey. I'm saying, in their interests of time,
Speaker 1: in the interest of time, I'm trying to dispatch with
Speaker 1: my turkey on. I want to do a whole different
Speaker 1: zone where you can we're work of the edges, and
Speaker 1: we found this is a good edge hunting story. We
Speaker 1: found a area that was just really getting scratched up,
Speaker 1: really heavy, and it was kind of like where National
Speaker 1: forests sort of jutted out into that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: You get where it's all used to be farm and
Speaker 1: ranch but it's becoming housey. But so you got like
Speaker 1: like where we killed our bird. I mean, we had
Speaker 1: seen like white tailed deer, mule deer, a bunch of
Speaker 1: elk out in the field, Turkeys run around people's yards, um,
Speaker 1: and we're just kind of nudged out into it and
Speaker 1: we were in an area where they were really scratching
Speaker 1: under some ponder rolls. So they had done a bunch
Speaker 1: of thinning projects, uh fire mitigation, and opened it up
Speaker 1: beautifully into like picture perfect turkey stuff, and they were
Speaker 1: just scratching like the dickens, and we heard a bird
Speaker 1: gobble and they that went back the next day and
Speaker 1: reworked him and got him the second time around. But
Speaker 1: it was funny while we're trying to get them. The
Speaker 1: first time we tried to work them. We're sitting there
Speaker 1: against the tree and got like we're like camoed up.
Speaker 1: We're on one side of an old two track and
Speaker 1: the birds on the other, our decoys on the other
Speaker 1: side of the old two track, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden ris filming me and also here Rick going ker
Speaker 1: And the reason he's not saying a lot her is
Speaker 1: she's already so close to us. That's like there's just
Speaker 1: no way to alert her to our presence without giving
Speaker 1: her a heart attack. Man. He's like, look, here comes
Speaker 1: a woman with walking her dog and the dog doesn't
Speaker 1: even know we're there, but like she's on and she's
Speaker 1: in our lap. And so I do the old like
Speaker 1: slow wave because although she's got to see us, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be worse. Like every step she takes, it's only
Speaker 1: gonna be worse. So I'm like, pardon me there, you know,
Speaker 1: like give like a wave and she yeah, jumps back
Speaker 1: very alarmed. Dogs hackles instantly go up, and she's in
Speaker 1: the awkward position like being cool with it. But she
Speaker 1: was good luck, oh wow, and went about her business.
Speaker 1: But I was pretty funny, man. I was like in
Speaker 1: my hand, like do we ride it out and just
Speaker 1: hope that she never notices us or notices why sir
Speaker 1: rubber turkey sitting here? And you had to make that
Speaker 1: split second call excuse me, ma'am. We're just out here
Speaker 1: enjoying the morning with a big camera and some shotguns playing.
Speaker 1: I ran into some horse for horse people riding their ponies,
Speaker 1: and we had somehow passed by him once already. Then
Speaker 1: we had gone and set up similar situation on this trail,
Speaker 1: and then we hear them talking. They're coming down the trail,
Speaker 1: they're not seeing us, and the guy gets to like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, ten yards from us, and the horse
Speaker 1: the horse sauce, Yeah, the horse sauce. And I'm kind
Speaker 1: of leaning around the corner already starting to like make
Speaker 1: a waiver. And he looks and sees our decoys and
Speaker 1: he says to his old ladies, like, there's those birds
Speaker 1: and boys are looking forward. What did he cause boys?
Speaker 1: I don't know what he said, but I don't know
Speaker 1: exactly his statement, but he basically said was a derogatory
Speaker 1: towards you know, not at all. He was just saying, like,
Speaker 1: there's there. He saw our decoys and said, oh, there's
Speaker 1: some turkeys. That's the ones they're looking for. Well, the
Speaker 1: horses threw their ears up and and that the reason
Speaker 1: they saw us is because the horse wouldn't go. The
Speaker 1: horse saw us, and that's what horses do. And uh
Speaker 1: and she couldn't get her horse to go, and that's yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't hear giddy up expressly, um, but that's why
Speaker 1: she was trying to get it to do in anyway, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: said yeah, I'm not a fan of that kind of hunt.
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing wrong with it. I just would rather
Speaker 1: be out in the woods. Yeah, anybody listen what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: As a Turkey enthusiast, there's places where one just has
Speaker 1: to embrace. Yeah, you're like, this is where the turkeys
Speaker 1: are I'm a allowed to hunt turkeys. I want to
Speaker 1: hunt turkeys, and you just got to embrace that that's
Speaker 1: what you're doing and and not doctor it up like
Speaker 1: it's something that it's not. If I lived in Montana,
Speaker 1: I would do that. I guess my thing was, I
Speaker 1: don't come to Montana to turkey hunting. Somebody's back here.
Speaker 1: Should you come to Montana? I don't. Yeah, I don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's just it's just the reality. Yanni. He had
Speaker 1: to call some Uh they were roosted over a house
Speaker 1: like they were like basically in the chimney, and he
Speaker 1: had to work them. Yeah, but those birds had not
Speaker 1: been hunted and since they have been roosting above that chimney.
Speaker 1: And uh, but I tell you that. I mean an
Speaker 1: example of how a turkey gets real slick, real soon,
Speaker 1: and people are like, oh, shout, hunt him on the
Speaker 1: golf course. It's like, look, man, it may be easy
Speaker 1: a hunt or two. It may it may never be easy.
Speaker 1: But just because you see him on the golf course
Speaker 1: or in the neighborhood and you have that special access,
Speaker 1: it's gonna allow you access to those turkeys. It's only
Speaker 1: gonna be easy. So many times we hunted those birds.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be easy one time twice, Yeah, once with
Speaker 1: just amazing ease and success. This next time was still
Speaker 1: pretty dang good. Their third time I went back, there
Speaker 1: were no more turkeys. Tell me fool me once, you
Speaker 1: know whatever, twice like whatever, fool me three times. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's what I think turkeys think, Clay. How offensive would
Speaker 1: it be? How offense would it would it be to you? If?
Speaker 1: Since we this is gonna be a this is an
Speaker 1: episode of our show, right it's captured beautifully video, how
Speaker 1: offensive would it be if we left this as a
Speaker 1: cliffhanger and you didn't right now actually tell how you
Speaker 1: got your bear when you went off roll? Was that
Speaker 1: a bull far away? Would that be super offensive? Um?
Speaker 1: That's your call, man. It wouldn't be to me. It
Speaker 1: wouldn't offend you. I mean, it wouldn't offend me. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I think we could, uh, we could describe
Speaker 1: the hunt and and actually give people some meat to
Speaker 1: take home for how they could bear hunt in the
Speaker 1: spring to go. So I'll just I'll just walk us
Speaker 1: into the third day of the hunt. Janice and I
Speaker 1: and Dirt Myth went back into a new spot where
Speaker 1: you guys stayed hardcore. I went weak, that's right. And
Speaker 1: we so we went to an area that basically, uh
Speaker 1: justin Spring had found on on X that just was
Speaker 1: a big, you know, kind of an opening in the
Speaker 1: midst of a big drainage full of timber. And I
Speaker 1: would say there was an opening that was probably a
Speaker 1: half mile by a half mile and you could get
Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the canyon and glass that's
Speaker 1: big opening pretty easily and that and that's where the
Speaker 1: food is, that's where the green as emerging grass, that's right.
Speaker 1: And so we took the mules three miles to get
Speaker 1: to this vantage point. So this is way pretty far
Speaker 1: back in there, and that's why I went there. And
Speaker 1: long story short, we got there the last hour of
Speaker 1: daylight and within five minutes of glassing, we spotted a bear.
Speaker 1: It was me and Dirt spotted it. The eagle was
Speaker 1: Dirt was within a lot of I love him. I
Speaker 1: love him. He's a lot of things. He's not a spodder. Well,
Speaker 1: he was within our he was within arms reaching me.
Speaker 1: When I spotted the bear, I was giving him some
Speaker 1: credit and so essentially watched this bear. It was too
Speaker 1: late in the evening. He was eight hundred yards away
Speaker 1: across the super deep canyon. I mean to get over
Speaker 1: there would have taken two or three hours, probably two hours,
Speaker 1: I don't, I mean, there was no way to get
Speaker 1: to the bear. So we camped out right there that
Speaker 1: Janice and I and we all we set up camp
Speaker 1: exactly where we had spied the bear. And the next
Speaker 1: day we just woke up at daylight and the plan
Speaker 1: was to watch that meadow the whole day. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's bear hunting. Find a bear, get in the spot
Speaker 1: where he can't smell you see you, but where you
Speaker 1: can see him, and you wait for him, and when
Speaker 1: you see him, you make a move on him. And
Speaker 1: so the next day we woke up at daylight and
Speaker 1: from camp we glassed and didn't see the bear. Didn't
Speaker 1: see the bear, didn't see the bear. But we were
Speaker 1: all pretty confident we were gonna see the bear before
Speaker 1: the day was over, and the intent was to stay
Speaker 1: there all day and camp another night if we had to.
Speaker 1: And at eleven o'clock the next day, we saw the
Speaker 1: bear moving down an old, you know, unusable logging road
Speaker 1: through this clearing, kind of going away from us. Well,
Speaker 1: there happened to be a logging road that we were
Speaker 1: on that paralleled this bear. He's on this one ridge,
Speaker 1: we're on another ridge, and so we the bears moving
Speaker 1: away from us. Let's just say it was moving east.
Speaker 1: We start moving east on our ridge. The more the
Speaker 1: the as we both went east than the draw the
Speaker 1: hollow whatever it's called the holler. We had a debate
Speaker 1: over what it was called upstream. Yeah, the holl of narrowed.
Speaker 1: So every step he took to the east and we
Speaker 1: took to the east. We're getting closer and closer. To
Speaker 1: imagine the letter V, you're both headed towards the point
Speaker 1: of that's right. But the problem is is that the
Speaker 1: direction he's going, we're losing open space. So there's just
Speaker 1: this bush wall of timber. Yeah, so so we're watching,
Speaker 1: were watching, We watch him, and finally we get to
Speaker 1: the end of our road as far as almost as
Speaker 1: far as we can go, and basically we watched the
Speaker 1: bear come down the hill and disappear into a a
Speaker 1: block of timber that was three sides open, and one
Speaker 1: side of this little little you know, a little block
Speaker 1: of timber was connected to this vast, unfragmented forest behind it,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, absolutely, Okay. We watched the bear
Speaker 1: go into this little block of Tember, probably fifty yards
Speaker 1: by fifty yards wide, you know, not not huge, not huge.
Speaker 1: He We've got a seventy five chance that that bear,
Speaker 1: if he comes out of that block of Tember, that
Speaker 1: we're gonna be able to see him because seventy five
Speaker 1: percent of the edge is open. There's a twenty chance
Speaker 1: that he could skirt into the big timber and we'd
Speaker 1: never see him again. As Yeah, And so what we
Speaker 1: decided to do, you honest, I think it was probably
Speaker 1: honest's idea was for us to go down even further
Speaker 1: and get as close as possible to that block Oftember
Speaker 1: where we last saw. So that's what we did. So
Speaker 1: we dropped off super steep, I mean very steep hillside,
Speaker 1: and we got within I want to say, five hundred yards. Yes,
Speaker 1: some some of the shots might even been closer well
Speaker 1: the a word lower down from the block September. I
Speaker 1: want to say, we were five to six yards away,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, not in range. And but we
Speaker 1: just decided to wait. So the bear, we watched him,
Speaker 1: he bedded down at eleven o'clock and we sat there
Speaker 1: from eleven o'clock till five pm when Dirt saw the
Speaker 1: bear coming out of the little block September. Dirt did
Speaker 1: it was pretty It was pretty cool because we're sitting
Speaker 1: It was funny because we're sitting there for so long
Speaker 1: that Janna says, where do you all think we're gonna
Speaker 1: see the bear? And so we all forecast, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I think he's gonna come out from
Speaker 1: here and he's gonna go up there. And Yanna say,
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna come out from here and go there.
Speaker 1: And Dirt says, you'll see right through that little hole
Speaker 1: where there's a we're two trees of falling over and
Speaker 1: there's like an X in a little opening the canopy.
Speaker 1: And we were like, yeah, I don't Dirt wouldn't describe
Speaker 1: it like that. He described it. You see that uh tree? Well, hey,
Speaker 1: we got you guys been working on his spotting, describedies
Speaker 1: and and describe you see this this magazine covert saw it.
Speaker 1: Then when Dirt made the cover dip Aficionado, I took
Speaker 1: that photo. Rick got a cover photo and dip Aficionado okay,
Speaker 1: we really okay, so you know what we're gonna do.
Speaker 1: Let me, let's just real quick, keep going. But here's
Speaker 1: the thing is, at this point it's a big we know,
Speaker 1: it's a nice big bear. I want to leave it
Speaker 1: like a cliffhanger. So when you get to go to
Speaker 1: get the shot, let's not tell people whether you got
Speaker 1: it or not. And they'll watch because this is what
Speaker 1: it'll be like what we call in this business, we
Speaker 1: called a throw. It could be a throw of the episode. Well,
Speaker 1: the bear shows up exactly where Dirt said. Dirt was
Speaker 1: literally like he's standing over the log. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: you know, Yany's dad can conjure game. I wouldn't rule
Speaker 1: out that Dirt conjured it. It was it was pretty cool,
Speaker 1: and the bear could have done He had three sixty
Speaker 1: degrees that he could have gone. There was about a
Speaker 1: ten degree window that have what would have been the
Speaker 1: absolute most beneficial for shot opportunity for him to go in.
Speaker 1: And the bear came directly down the mountain, and so
Speaker 1: we're on a vid hillside. So the further he goes
Speaker 1: down the mountain, the closer he gets to us too.
Speaker 1: You know, he's getting closer to us as he goes down.
Speaker 1: And the bear comes into three fifty yards and you'll
Speaker 1: have to watch meat eater blouch. Does he get it?
Speaker 1: Stay tuned all right now into UM that was good.
Speaker 1: People are gonna be, like really on the edge of
Speaker 1: their seats. I think we told him we killed the
Speaker 1: bear though he did, but they don't know what exacts.
Speaker 1: People don't love you don't even pay attention. UM, stay
Speaker 1: tuned now for our our our the appendix of this episode. UM.
Speaker 1: In the appendix of this episode, one will find a
Speaker 1: brief online skype uh interview with Donald Trump, junior member
Speaker 1: of the First Family. Hey, how's it going. How's it going? Guys?
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for coming on. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I first wanted to talk to you and and thought
Speaker 1: about you a fair deal after the death of you know,
Speaker 1: a mutual acquaintance, a friend of yours, which is someone
Speaker 1: I knew professionally, Jason Harrison. After you had been out
Speaker 1: a trip together. That must have been that must have
Speaker 1: been pretty impactful. Uh yeah, I mean that that was
Speaker 1: a rough one for me. I mean he was really
Speaker 1: you know, one of my best friends. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we've we've done you know, sort of numerous sheep hunts together.
Speaker 1: I think it was an interesting thing we sort of had,
Speaker 1: you know, the commonality that you and I know about,
Speaker 1: you know, just you know guys from hunting camp. But
Speaker 1: because you know, because he started sitcut, because he started
Speaker 1: COO you we also sort of had that sort of
Speaker 1: business mindset, so we we we had those two things
Speaker 1: in common. So we spoke, I mean almost almost every day.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, like I said, I was on
Speaker 1: a sheep hunt with him. We did an incredible uh
Speaker 1: dollar sheep hunt up in the Yukon. Uh. We came
Speaker 1: out of that and he actually had a father's son
Speaker 1: hunt to do. Literally the following week, I had the same.
Speaker 1: I took my son up into b C to do
Speaker 1: a goat hunt, uh you know, like a father's son
Speaker 1: goat hunt, and it was awesome. And he was up
Speaker 1: doing a cariboo hunt with cash, his son. And you know,
Speaker 1: I remember I was coming out of you know, British Columbia.
Speaker 1: I was in uh the airport at Vancouver after transferring
Speaker 1: through white Horse, UM and Kirsten, Jason's wife calls me
Speaker 1: and and tells me this goes on. I'm saying, wait
Speaker 1: a second, Like we've literally gone back and forth all
Speaker 1: day by text message. I mean literally sharing photos of
Speaker 1: our hunt that day. We I mean that day, uh,
Speaker 1: we we literally booked a hunt for ourselves with our boys,
Speaker 1: uh and like set a date and so uh that
Speaker 1: that was shocking. I mean I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: what's going on. I'm literally getting on a plane. She
Speaker 1: was actually in New York, so I was on a
Speaker 1: separate text matters with her and Kimberly, my girlfriend, because
Speaker 1: we were gonna have dinner in New York with Jason,
Speaker 1: and then him and I are going back and forth.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, come to find out, you know,
Speaker 1: his last text to me it was, you know, sort
Speaker 1: of a buddy buddy. Uh. You know it's called a
Speaker 1: little slightly ball breaking type of text about eight minutes
Speaker 1: before he did that, and I and you would have
Speaker 1: never known. I mean it was like literally an inside
Speaker 1: joke that we had going back and forth, just totally
Speaker 1: breaking chops. But like I said, within two weeks prior,
Speaker 1: I shared a tent with him for fourteen days on
Speaker 1: a on a sheep hunt. I mean it wasn't like,
Speaker 1: you know, we shared a base camp and saw each
Speaker 1: other at night or anything like that. I mean, we
Speaker 1: did a you know, a hundred twenty mile round trip
Speaker 1: track up at uh, you know, the Bonno Plume River,
Speaker 1: and you know seven was with him. I actually tagged
Speaker 1: out on on day two. Uh, this hunch just you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just got lucky, so an incredible you know dollar
Speaker 1: ram and you know, tagged out and you know, rather
Speaker 1: than doing the usual okay, time to go home, I said, hey,
Speaker 1: let me, I'm gonna stick around, you know, do your hunting.
Speaker 1: So it was sort of nice to you know, leave
Speaker 1: the rifle back and camp, just go along for the ride,
Speaker 1: go along for the hike in the scenery. Uh. And man,
Speaker 1: I'm glad I did that because I got a lot
Speaker 1: of good times with a great man. You know when
Speaker 1: I said, I wanted to how I had thought about
Speaker 1: you after that happened, as I had had something similar
Speaker 1: happened with a friend of mine who he was up
Speaker 1: at our fish shack and we were hanging out for
Speaker 1: a week and then he went home and and uh,
Speaker 1: it took his own life, and it makes it really
Speaker 1: makes you go back and and sort of reanalyze everything.
Speaker 1: And I think there's another guy. There's a guy I
Speaker 1: do know. Nay, I think Jay Scott. I believe you know,
Speaker 1: Jay Scott and he was friends with Jason too, And
Speaker 1: I was with Jay Scott shortly after that, and Jay
Speaker 1: Scott said he was talking about how he's gonna start
Speaker 1: changing the way that he asked his friends how you're doing,
Speaker 1: meaning he's gonna be like no, like really, how are
Speaker 1: you right? Like I don't want to miss I don't
Speaker 1: want to miss something here, you know, Yeah, No, it's
Speaker 1: it's really smart. And I mean again for me, I've
Speaker 1: seen it with you know, people that have been pretty
Speaker 1: close to in the last few years, like yeah, four
Speaker 1: people that I can think of that I mean again, uh,
Speaker 1: not one of them. You would have seen any outward signs.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, hell, Jason, I thought he had
Speaker 1: the sort of the world by the Cajon is uh,
Speaker 1: you know when you think about everything that he had
Speaker 1: going on, I mean, you're just a successful company crushing
Speaker 1: it in every aspect of Lige gets to do what
Speaker 1: he loves. I mean, you know that said, I mean
Speaker 1: with me, he did show, you know, some of that vulnerability,
Speaker 1: but it was more that you know, he understood, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the potential ramifications in his case. You know,
Speaker 1: Cte from you know, a collegiate and professional football career.
Speaker 1: I mean he understood, uh, you know, the dangers of
Speaker 1: the head trauma. But like he was that guy that
Speaker 1: you know, hey, don if if if I had a
Speaker 1: you know, an injury, you gotta speak to this doctor.
Speaker 1: You gotta speak to him about this. This is how
Speaker 1: you got to handle it. This is how you're gonna
Speaker 1: rehab it. So, I mean, this was a guy that
Speaker 1: was aware, uh you know, he was actively working to
Speaker 1: fix it. He didn't just take a shortcut. He was
Speaker 1: a really smart guy. You know, did all the research.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean we spent hours talking about this stuff.
Speaker 1: So I mean he was preparing it such for later
Speaker 1: in life if this thing was going to manifest itself more.
Speaker 1: But you know, I guess it turns out it was.
Speaker 1: It was manifesting itself much more than we would have
Speaker 1: uh known. And again, it doesn't take a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: it just needed someone else to be in the driver's
Speaker 1: seat for that that couple of seconds. And you know,
Speaker 1: there's no there's no taking back that decision. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's horrible. Um, you know you've I was talking
Speaker 1: with some people the other day and I was observing
Speaker 1: how I feel like you're you're the most enthusiastic hunter
Speaker 1: who's like really in the public eye day in day
Speaker 1: out in the country today. I would almost have to
Speaker 1: imagine in terms of like name recognition. But then you know,
Speaker 1: we have a lot of exposure into your your your
Speaker 1: father's passions and what he does with his time. Um,
Speaker 1: he's not an outspoken hunter. Hunting is so often this
Speaker 1: sort of you know I bring up all the time,
Speaker 1: it's this this thing that's passed along like patrilineal descent,
Speaker 1: but with you kind of skipped the generation, right, like
Speaker 1: you got turned down to it through your grandfather. I did. Yeah, my,
Speaker 1: you know, my grandfather it was a blue color electrician
Speaker 1: from Communist Czech Slovakia. So he couldn't hunt. I mean,
Speaker 1: that wasn't for you know, if you weren't like Communist
Speaker 1: party elite in again, you know, Communist Czech Slovakia in
Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies and eighties, I mean, you couldn't
Speaker 1: do those things. But he sort of saw the lifestyle
Speaker 1: that we were blessed with in America with the free
Speaker 1: m and he just sort of said, hey, you have
Speaker 1: to see the other side of this. So he had
Speaker 1: that conversation with my father. And you know, my father
Speaker 1: never got exposed to because he grew up in Queens,
Speaker 1: New York, and you know, he didn't he didn't get
Speaker 1: the ability to have a mentor. And I mean that's
Speaker 1: what I always talked about with the outdoors, whether it's fishing, hunting, shooting,
Speaker 1: all like, they're not the easiest thing to just pick
Speaker 1: up and go do, Like you need to sort of
Speaker 1: take the time and you know, take a kid of field,
Speaker 1: take a you know, take a woman of field. They
Speaker 1: get exposed people, uh, you know to the great outdoors.
Speaker 1: And so he sort of did that to me. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't like hunting. It was maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: of fishing, uh and woodsmanship, but he was you know,
Speaker 1: old school, sort of Eastern European guy. Brought me to
Speaker 1: then Czech Slovakia's like there's the woods. You know, I'll
Speaker 1: see you at dark, like okay, you know it, six
Speaker 1: seven years old, Like I'd go play in the woods
Speaker 1: where I mean and I honestly just I fell in love.
Speaker 1: He passed away when I was about twelve, but you know,
Speaker 1: those the summers that I you know, I spent with
Speaker 1: him there, you know, six eight weeks doing those kind
Speaker 1: of things just really just off the lasting impression for me.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, that was about the time my
Speaker 1: parents were going through a pretty rough divorce, all of
Speaker 1: that stuff very public, and I just said, you know,
Speaker 1: get me the hell out of New York City, like
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to be here. So I
Speaker 1: went to boarding school uh in Central Pennsylvania and Pottstown
Speaker 1: sort of you know rust belt p A. But you know,
Speaker 1: there were a couple of people there that, you know,
Speaker 1: one guy was just one of these, the dean of
Speaker 1: students actually just an old school guy. I mean the
Speaker 1: kind of guy that could run around to skeet clean
Speaker 1: uh you know, with an old Winchester fort, like just
Speaker 1: real outdoorsmen. And you know, he got me into the
Speaker 1: sort of the shooting sports that way my grandfather got
Speaker 1: me into air guns and the stuff that they could
Speaker 1: do uh in Czech Republic, but not really any kind
Speaker 1: of center fire or shotgun type sports. Uh. This was
Speaker 1: an old school place that had a rifle range on campus.
Speaker 1: It had skeeting trapped just off and so you know,
Speaker 1: I fell in love, and you know, I had a
Speaker 1: mentor that was willing to put in the time and
Speaker 1: one day, he just goes, you know, I'll see you
Speaker 1: in the parking lot Saturday morning, six am, dress warm.
Speaker 1: And I was like like today today you'd be calling
Speaker 1: a social services uh you know and the police. Uh.
Speaker 1: For me, I was like, okay, like what's gonna happen?
Speaker 1: And he took me on my first sort of like
Speaker 1: upland bird hunt, and you know, I fell in love.
Speaker 1: And then you know, later that year just took me
Speaker 1: even I just like an apprentice watcher, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Opening Day deer, you know, with the sort of
Speaker 1: camaraderie and all of this, and man, they're just at
Speaker 1: that point, there wasn't a book I didn't read, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a magazine I wouldn't subscribe to, just you know,
Speaker 1: trying to build up that wealth of knowledge as someone
Speaker 1: who didn't really have anyone else, uh, you know, getting
Speaker 1: him into there. There was a similar story with a
Speaker 1: guy about flat fishing that got me into the basics
Speaker 1: of fly fishing. But like when I say basics, I
Speaker 1: mean I reeled in the line every time for the
Speaker 1: first two years of my fly fishing career, so uh
Speaker 1: it was pretty brutal, but you know, I fell in
Speaker 1: love and just kept going from there. I feel like
Speaker 1: at this point, um, you're like your outdoor activities are
Speaker 1: so scrutinized by the media, and I feel like a
Speaker 1: kind of weaponize and taken out of context and some
Speaker 1: to some extent, I feel like you could have an
Speaker 1: impoverished grandmother who has a garden that's getting destroyed by rabbits,
Speaker 1: and if Don Junior shot one of those rabbits, man,
Speaker 1: it would be right, it would be You'd be crucified
Speaker 1: for it. Like, what was the earliest pushback you can
Speaker 1: remember when you started to identify. You're like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I like to hunt. I'm gonna identify as a hunter
Speaker 1: and angler. What was your first awareness where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's a price to be paid for this. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: never hit from it. I mean it was sort of
Speaker 1: you know, I'm kind of an open book for better
Speaker 1: or worse. I made it probably gets me in more
Speaker 1: trouble than you know, I need it. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: someone released or just you know, sort of release the
Speaker 1: pictures of me hunting in Africa with my brother back
Speaker 1: in like early early two thousands, you know, two thousands,
Speaker 1: tennish or something like that. You know, I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't put them out myself, and you know, the left
Speaker 1: just pounced on it, and you know, the anti hunting
Speaker 1: crowd just went nuts. Oh my god. I mean they
Speaker 1: literally wrote front page news for two weeks. You know,
Speaker 1: they were poached in Zimbi. I'm like, where in Matesta.
Speaker 1: You didn't want to hear a perfect like but they
Speaker 1: didn't want to hear about permits. They didn't want to see,
Speaker 1: you know, all the documentation from zimbabwe fishing game. They didn't.
Speaker 1: You know, it was just he's evil. They were, you know,
Speaker 1: hunting inside a fence. You know there's no fence. That
Speaker 1: meant that it's literally millions of acres of open wild
Speaker 1: African terrain. Obviously the meat is going to waste, and
Speaker 1: if anyone's been to Africa, you know that literally nothing
Speaker 1: goes to waste. Uh. And it was one of those
Speaker 1: I just saw it and I was like, man, these
Speaker 1: guys are they're trying to literally destroy his front page
Speaker 1: news for like two weeks, going after my brother and
Speaker 1: I and I just said, hey, listen, there's two ways
Speaker 1: I can go. I can do the usual. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to consider myself a celebrity,
Speaker 1: but like you know, had a name that was recognizable
Speaker 1: and was able to be weaponized against me. I could
Speaker 1: do the usual I'm so sorry. I'll never do that again.
Speaker 1: I'll quit hunting and take up you know, croquet, uh
Speaker 1: you know, or I can actually try to use lives
Speaker 1: that platform uh that you know, they have helped at
Speaker 1: that point you create to actually speak about conservation. Uh,
Speaker 1: the dollars that hunters put into uh, you know, saving
Speaker 1: animals around the world, but especially the North American model,
Speaker 1: and how it's been sort of imported and exported to
Speaker 1: other parts of the world where without hunting, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have the fauna or the flora uh frankly, uh that
Speaker 1: you do in some of our incredible wild's places. So,
Speaker 1: you know, rather than doing the you know, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 1: I just said, here's some facts. Here's the brutal, honest here,
Speaker 1: here's what really happens. And and it was interesting. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I may have gotten a correction in about
Speaker 1: ten percent of the magazines, you know, somewhere in the
Speaker 1: back page, or you know, a tweet at two am
Speaker 1: on a Sunday when no one's gonna see it, say,
Speaker 1: oh well, they weren't actually poaching, but it doesn't stop
Speaker 1: them from saying that we still were ten years later,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like even with proof, even
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But what was interesting about it is
Speaker 1: I was sort of unknown in the world, but I
Speaker 1: made so many any friends from sort of the hunting,
Speaker 1: outdoor even fishing community that we're like, hey, man, like,
Speaker 1: thank you for just standing up to the nonsense. Thanks
Speaker 1: for putting out the facts. Like, you know, it's definitely
Speaker 1: cost me money as a businessman, whether that's in you
Speaker 1: know sort of you know, paid gigs that I did
Speaker 1: and you know now, but like, honestly, you sort of
Speaker 1: have to stand up for what you believe in it,
Speaker 1: and there's not enough of that these days. Hunting is
Speaker 1: you know, it's definitely a third rail. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's good that I see more of that
Speaker 1: from you know, from different communities now. I mean even
Speaker 1: you know, I talked I've seen and talked with like
Speaker 1: you know, sort of hipster New York hunters that we
Speaker 1: probably don't share much in common other than you know,
Speaker 1: sort of the camp fire being the great equalizer, uh Like,
Speaker 1: and I love seeing that, you know, whether it farmed
Speaker 1: a table, the organic movement, all of these things. I'm like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: like you want to see that stuff in real life,
Speaker 1: like take up hunting, and so I think it's awesome
Speaker 1: and I it's just been a it's been a great
Speaker 1: community and I'm just glad I did it despite sort
Speaker 1: of the you know again, there there are costs, but
Speaker 1: the costs don't outweigh uh to me, the risk of
Speaker 1: you know, losing this sort of great American tradition, Uh,
Speaker 1: this great pastime, these great opportunities that I want to
Speaker 1: make sure are available for me and my kids because
Speaker 1: I know, with hunting, with fishing, with shooting, you know, archery,
Speaker 1: all of these things that I'm just so passionate about
Speaker 1: spear fishing. I mean, these are things that kept me
Speaker 1: out of so much other trouble I would have gotten
Speaker 1: into as a youth with too much free time. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's sort of hard to get in trouble when you're
Speaker 1: waking up at four o'clock in the morning. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying I was an angel, and anyone who knows me
Speaker 1: would would never buy that one, but like, uh, it
Speaker 1: was definitely a guiding force in life and continues to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's sort of where I go to escape
Speaker 1: the other the craziness of my day to day. Early
Speaker 1: on with the new administration came in, I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of enthusiasm. Um, I'm a part of many
Speaker 1: hunters and anglers that it was like people were great
Speaker 1: to have. We're glad to have lifelong practitioner such as yourself,
Speaker 1: like really close to the administration, right because you feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, our our viewpoints and perspectives we have are
Speaker 1: gonna be voiced. Do you And I know you've taken
Speaker 1: pains to make clear that you're not an administration official,
Speaker 1: but do you imagine like when you heard that you
Speaker 1: knew that was going on, did you feel that that
Speaker 1: was warranted? Was it kind of like a naive expectation
Speaker 1: of what sort of what what what a first family
Speaker 1: members role actually is? You know? Beyond that, I mean again,
Speaker 1: I think you know, if we're gonna be you know,
Speaker 1: candid about it, it's sort of like whatever I do
Speaker 1: is wrong in the eyes of the media. I mean,
Speaker 1: if I'm if I'm not loud enough, that's wrong. If
Speaker 1: I'm too loud, it's wrong. If I'm taking part of
Speaker 1: the administration I'll get killed on the press every day
Speaker 1: that said. I mean, the only thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: you know, take part in, uh during the transition politically
Speaker 1: was the Department of the Interior, And you know I
Speaker 1: did that, uh and was involved. And honestly, they've done
Speaker 1: a lot of things that you know, you're not gonna
Speaker 1: get a lot of credit, uh, just because it's the
Speaker 1: Trump administration. But when you talk about you know, public
Speaker 1: lands obviously being to me like a number one issue
Speaker 1: because you know, I understand how difficult it is to
Speaker 1: have access and I'm blessed to have you know, some
Speaker 1: of my own private land and friends with ranches and
Speaker 1: these sort of things. But for people you know who
Speaker 1: want to get their kids and do it. You know,
Speaker 1: if you used to be able to go out in
Speaker 1: your backyard and now you've got to drive four hours,
Speaker 1: guess what you're taking up golf and the tradition is gone. So,
Speaker 1: you know, advocating for you know, public lands, which hasn't
Speaker 1: necessarily been a conservative talking point, but like this administration,
Speaker 1: by September one will have opened up four million new
Speaker 1: acres of public land. I think that's the most probably
Speaker 1: of any administration since Roosevelt. Uh, you know, they've created
Speaker 1: that kind of access. They've put in more for like
Speaker 1: repair and maintenance to the national parks, which again less
Speaker 1: to do with hunting and fishing, but uh, you know,
Speaker 1: is a big part of it. I believe it numbers like,
Speaker 1: you know, sixties six percent more than Obama and Biden
Speaker 1: did in the same amount of time. So you sort
Speaker 1: of have these talking points that are out there in
Speaker 1: the sort of the outdoor community. I don't want to
Speaker 1: say hunting or fishing, but you know, they're selling off
Speaker 1: public lands there. Like it's just not accurate, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't stop sort of some of these well funded you know,
Speaker 1: where the political you know could try to sway an
Speaker 1: outdoor group, and there's a lot of that sort of
Speaker 1: even in hunting, where it's sort of you know, groups
Speaker 1: in name only but really pushing a political agenda that's
Speaker 1: not necessarily for the benefit of hunters and outdoorsman. I mean,
Speaker 1: you hear about, you know, coastal erosion, but you don't
Speaker 1: hear about like the literally the largest investment uh into
Speaker 1: the Evergladesh and like Okchobe by the Trump administration. You know,
Speaker 1: I think it's like seven x what the prior administration
Speaker 1: even looked at in there same thing with the Great Lakes.
Speaker 1: So you know, the administration is doing a lot of
Speaker 1: things to ensure that these things will do that again.
Speaker 1: Now that I'm not part of the administration. Once you
Speaker 1: got out of transition, you know, hey, you know I
Speaker 1: can't get involved without sort of creating a catch twenty
Speaker 1: two where someone loses their mind that I'm saying something.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean, you know that I don't voice
Speaker 1: my opinion when you know, if we're at a family
Speaker 1: dinner with various things that are going on that are
Speaker 1: important to me that I do understand better than most
Speaker 1: where I do have uh people and friends on the ground,
Speaker 1: I mean I sort of say, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: you know, when I have a friend in Montana, it's
Speaker 1: not a token buddy that shows up that day that
Speaker 1: I've never seen before in my life for the photo
Speaker 1: of It's like these are guys I hunt and fish with,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know do these things with. So I think,
Speaker 1: unlike so many of the decisions they get made as
Speaker 1: it relates to you know, the Department of the Interior
Speaker 1: or the outdoors, where it's decided by you know, an
Speaker 1: emotional judge in d C that has no understanding of
Speaker 1: what's going on on the ground. Uh, no attachment to
Speaker 1: the local community, no understanding of conservation period whatsoever. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I I think I do have a pretty
Speaker 1: good understanding of what's going on on the ground because
Speaker 1: that's sort of where I choose to spend my time,
Speaker 1: you know, for me, hunting fishes, shooting. It's not like
Speaker 1: the thing I then talk about at some cocktail party
Speaker 1: on the you know, bullshit like New York City rubber
Speaker 1: chicken dinner charity circuit. It's actually what I do every weekend,
Speaker 1: whenever I have free time, I'm outdoors doing something. Uh.
Speaker 1: For me, it's actually my lifestyle, uh, you know, much
Speaker 1: more so than sort of the suit and tie of
Speaker 1: the day to day, whether it's business or politics. You know,
Speaker 1: that's what I want to be doing. I saw you
Speaker 1: and your father speak at shot Show, which would have
Speaker 1: been still the primaries were still going on, and I
Speaker 1: remember he got up and addressed the audience at an
Speaker 1: awards dinner I was at. I've ever been really surprised
Speaker 1: because the public lands debate was really heating up, but
Speaker 1: it was it was it was still gaining a lot
Speaker 1: of awareness. I remember be really surprised that on his
Speaker 1: list of talking points was his acknowledgement of the public
Speaker 1: lands debate and him saying like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: sell off your public lands. And I thought it was
Speaker 1: interesting that he that, assuming I'm assuming that was something
Speaker 1: that you had spoken about. I was just surprised that
Speaker 1: it was even on his radar. And then I think
Speaker 1: that that's been an interesting point with the administration because, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of people that would criticize
Speaker 1: that the amount of fossil fuel exploration has been opened
Speaker 1: up on public lands. They'd be like, um, that they
Speaker 1: feel that that's a move against public lands, but really
Speaker 1: there's been people have stayed true to the administration's trade,
Speaker 1: stayed true to not reducing, not selling off and getting
Speaker 1: rid of public lands, which uh was actually against sort
Speaker 1: of the party's platform at the time. Um, And I
Speaker 1: remember that I remember thinking of that as a pretty
Speaker 1: bold move to go in the direction of hunters and
Speaker 1: anglers when it might be against party platform procedures. Do
Speaker 1: you feel that there are more places and ways that
Speaker 1: that has happened where you know, where there's a leaning
Speaker 1: end to hunters and anglers, maybe in a way that's
Speaker 1: adversarial to industry, in a way that's adversarial to the
Speaker 1: party in general, you know, I I think so, I
Speaker 1: mean that the conventional dogma was, you know, obviously states rights,
Speaker 1: which I will believe in. But the problem with the
Speaker 1: sort of the public lands and states rights issue was,
Speaker 1: you know, you sort of give the states back the
Speaker 1: public lands, but then they use that land to sell
Speaker 1: it off to fund you know, a budget shortfall in
Speaker 1: an inner city that's never going to make budget, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's a one time, temporary fix. But those lands
Speaker 1: are gone forever. So I sort of, you know, I
Speaker 1: made the point very clear. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I also said, but as I mentioned in the prior point,
Speaker 1: was like, you still need state and local people involved
Speaker 1: in the management of those lands. Right, these guys understand
Speaker 1: what's going on. You look at what's going on in
Speaker 1: the West or California, you know, with forest fires, because
Speaker 1: there's the preservationist mentality of well, it's lands, but you
Speaker 1: can't touch it. You can't do anything with it, God
Speaker 1: forbid you even walking it. You know, overgrown dead timber
Speaker 1: is probably the worst habitat for animals, for plans for
Speaker 1: anything right, no sun gets to the ground. And it's
Speaker 1: also a tinder box. It's literally just big, big, sap
Speaker 1: filled matches waiting for lightning, waiting for in some cases
Speaker 1: unfortunately bad actors, waiting for you know, irresponsible camper that
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to put out their fire or doesn't
Speaker 1: do a good job doing those things. And every year
Speaker 1: then billions in destruction, lives are lost, homes are lost.
Speaker 1: But then you know, the same states that want control
Speaker 1: of those lands want the federal government to come in
Speaker 1: and say, well, give us billions to stop this thing,
Speaker 1: when you could have employed a bunch of people to
Speaker 1: you know, cut down some of that standing dead timber.
Speaker 1: There's economic value. You create jobs in places that actually needed.
Speaker 1: You're creating new growth forest, which is a big deal. So,
Speaker 1: I mean there is an aspect of you know, whether
Speaker 1: it's even oil and gas. You know, it's not like
Speaker 1: there's an oil and gas plant from every ten yards. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, if you say, well, we're gonna shut down
Speaker 1: the entire Midwest because you know of the stage ground,
Speaker 1: but you can't have a road to a platform that's
Speaker 1: thirty by thirty. It's not realistic and it's not responsible,
Speaker 1: and we're still getting those you know that oil and
Speaker 1: gas from Russia or from Saudi who's gonna be much
Speaker 1: more relaxed in terms of their environmental standards. You're getting
Speaker 1: these things out of the ground. So you know, there's
Speaker 1: a way to have responsible stewardship over the land. I mean,
Speaker 1: in many cases you can actually create an economic output
Speaker 1: and economic benefit and still actually be better off four game.
Speaker 1: Uh you know again, cutting standing dead timber all over
Speaker 1: the West is the perfect example of that. And it's
Speaker 1: certainly a better option to create some jobs, to create
Speaker 1: some economic output than it is to spend billions, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, fighting fires and losing lives uh needlessly, And
Speaker 1: so you know there's a responsible way to do it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that it has to be done in
Speaker 1: a haphazard fashion, but you know, it's one of those
Speaker 1: rare instances where you can kind of get the best
Speaker 1: of both worlds if you do it right. What happens when, uh,
Speaker 1: when you and your dad don't agree on stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're obviously very loyal, um, but it's limits, right, and
Speaker 1: I imagine you don't want to throw down publicly, but
Speaker 1: do you guys, uh? You guys butt heads on stuff
Speaker 1: for you know, now and then you've got to be disappointed, right. Uh, listen,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know that you know, disappointed. There's
Speaker 1: definitely I don't know that anyone. You know, this sort
Speaker 1: of notion of sort of you know, bipartisan politics where
Speaker 1: everyone agrees with one aspect of something. You're seeing that's
Speaker 1: becoming more and more of the case. Unfortunately, you know,
Speaker 1: today the culture is such that you know, if you're
Speaker 1: not woke, you're canceled. I mean, you're gonna get canceled
Speaker 1: by some people for even you know, giving me a platform.
Speaker 1: That's sort of how it works these days. So you know,
Speaker 1: I'll give you the disclaimer you had nothing to do
Speaker 1: with it, YadA, YadA, YadA. But yeah, uh that's a shame.
Speaker 1: So you know, we do. Just listen, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't think you could have my personality or my father's personality,
Speaker 1: uh and not be outspoken. I can do that respectfully.
Speaker 1: If there's you know, bigger issues we disagree on. Generally speaking,
Speaker 1: you know, I agree with a lot of uh you know,
Speaker 1: his his policies, and again as it relates to these things, man,
Speaker 1: I think they're doing a very good job of it.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't know it from what you see about it,
Speaker 1: because you don't read about I mean, think abou it
Speaker 1: steve four million plus new acres previously inaccessible for sportsmen
Speaker 1: and women. I mean, you don't hear that even a
Speaker 1: little bit. But you you hear every day about, you know,
Speaker 1: selling off public lands. And by the way, that when
Speaker 1: they talk about that, you know there's people that would
Speaker 1: complain about selling off public lands. If you sold one
Speaker 1: acre of public land here or traded it for an
Speaker 1: acre over here that allows people to access you know,
Speaker 1: ten thousand acres of landlocked public land. Because there's plenty
Speaker 1: of those people too. There are public land hunters, but
Speaker 1: guess what, well, they're public land hunters because they're hunting
Speaker 1: landlock you know, public land, but they know the guy
Speaker 1: that owns the private land surrounding. It's so you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of bs involved in some of these things.
Speaker 1: And so you sell off a corner to create access
Speaker 1: to ten thousand acres where literally no one really from
Speaker 1: the public would have access. Oh my god, you sold
Speaker 1: off public land. It's like no, no, no, you created access,
Speaker 1: even if it's a fair trade, even if you say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'll give you an acre for an acre, or I'll
Speaker 1: give you, you know, an acre for for two acres,
Speaker 1: even if you made it sort of a net gain
Speaker 1: in terms of public land. Someone's outraged and they're pushing
Speaker 1: a false narrative that's not really there. And I've seen that,
Speaker 1: you know, buddies places that I hunt in Montana. Uh. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: the the amount of stuff I see like that. That's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's not really public land and you're the only one
Speaker 1: that has access to it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like that, that's not uh, that's not the public land
Speaker 1: that I'm pushing for. I'm pushing for public land that's
Speaker 1: accessible by all, that we can get our kids into
Speaker 1: the outdoors, that we can get our wives and girlfriends
Speaker 1: into the outdoors, that we can teach them about those
Speaker 1: experience and create new hunters, new fishermen, new outdoorsmen. In general,
Speaker 1: I'm generally, uh, just speaking personally, I'm generally very appreciative
Speaker 1: of the environmental the speaking as a hunter and angler,
Speaker 1: I'm appreciative of the environmental protections that we get from Democrats,
Speaker 1: and I'm appreciative of the cultural and hunting rights and
Speaker 1: gun rights protections that we get from the Republicans. So
Speaker 1: as a closing thought, here, hit me with a pitch,
Speaker 1: like hit me with a pitch for real. Trump's reelection
Speaker 1: skewed towards like skewed toward a hunter and angler. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're a hunter, obviously, if you like firearms,
Speaker 1: you see what's going on. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: how you know Joe Biden can pretend to be a
Speaker 1: moderate on firearms, but say, hey, I'm gonna appoint bet
Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah, I'm going to take your a R
Speaker 1: fifteen O'Rourke as your guns are. You saw him sort of,
Speaker 1: you know, verbally assault a guy I guess I was
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin a few weeks ago who literally asked him
Speaker 1: a couple of questions about the platform. There's no education
Speaker 1: on the platform. And again, if you see what he
Speaker 1: put out was sort of the the Biden Sanders plan
Speaker 1: you know this week it is a super left uh
Speaker 1: you'll plan as as it relates to virtually anything. But
Speaker 1: that's certainly going to be an infringement on our Second
Speaker 1: Amendment rights, which is a big part of when I
Speaker 1: talk about the outdoors. I grew that in there. I
Speaker 1: mean I'm a I'm a competitive shooter. I was you
Speaker 1: know ranked, you know, high power shooter, did a lot
Speaker 1: in f class love you know, sort of the PRS
Speaker 1: stuff that's going on, do handgun, shotgun I I sort
Speaker 1: of do it all, um. And so you know, this,
Speaker 1: the Second Amendment arguments is a really big one for me.
Speaker 1: I think as it relates to you know, public land
Speaker 1: for hunters, there has not been an administration that's created
Speaker 1: more access uh for for outdoorsman. Uh, that's gonna continue. Um,
Speaker 1: that is something that's been a big part of that administration.
Speaker 1: They get no credit for it, but they've done it.
Speaker 1: And if you want to talk about preserving the tradition
Speaker 1: of the great outdoors, you're not gonna do it without access.
Speaker 1: And again, this is multiples of what I don't even
Speaker 1: know of. Obama and Biden opened any new land. They
Speaker 1: may have maintained what was existing there, but this is
Speaker 1: the largest since Roosevelt in you know, a century in
Speaker 1: terms of new access. And when you think about that
Speaker 1: in perspective and over time, I mean, that's a lot
Speaker 1: harder to do now that it would have been a
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, just because of the nature of the world.
Speaker 1: In which we live. Uh you think about the thing
Speaker 1: things that they've done again ever glides for coastal erosion, Uh,
Speaker 1: great lakes for all the great sport. I mean I
Speaker 1: go up there every year to to go ice fishing,
Speaker 1: just because you know, it's pretty awlesome to catch at
Speaker 1: twenty prown brown teat. You know, I'll travel to Wisconsin
Speaker 1: for a weekend to do that as a sportsman. But
Speaker 1: you've got to make sure you preserve those fisheries as well.
Speaker 1: So you know the reality of what this administration has
Speaker 1: done for the outdoorsman. Uh, it's often overlooked, but it
Speaker 1: shouldn't be. All right, Donald Trump Junior, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: I look forward to having you when all this chaos
Speaker 1: blows over. Man with the pandemic that seems to have
Speaker 1: a way of continuing. Ah yeah, to having you in
Speaker 1: and for for an actual uh face face conversation. But
Speaker 1: it's cool to to get a chance to to hear
Speaker 1: from you a little bit. Um. Well, yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: we were scheduled last week and then I got the
Speaker 1: call from your guys. That's someone close to you guys
Speaker 1: tested positive. And then it turns out the next so
Speaker 1: we put it off for a week and then it
Speaker 1: turns out the next day my girlfriend and tested positive.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it's the super rugged outdoors been gene
Speaker 1: that's preventing me from getting it. Uh but uh, you
Speaker 1: know so, Yeah, it's been a mess, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: I'll be back out there. We'd love to sit down
Speaker 1: with you guys, and uh maybe more importantly one day
Speaker 1: share a camp fire. Yeah. Well, we'll get through this
Speaker 1: and get a scheduled. And I appreciate you taking the
Speaker 1: time to to talk and have a nice civil discourse. Right.
Speaker 1: Sounds good man. We need more of that. Thank you.