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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that brings you the secret history and little known facts

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Speaker 1: behind your favorite music, movies, TV shows, and more. We

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Speaker 1: are your sky ons of skull related factoids. My name

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Speaker 1: is Jordan run Tug. Nope, I'm not I'm not giving

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Speaker 1: you that one false uh and I'm Alex Hegel, damn it.

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Speaker 1: And today we are talking about No Doubts Tragic Kingdom, or,

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Speaker 1: as I prefer to think of it, the nineties answer

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Speaker 1: to Fleetwood Max Rumors. I make the comparison not only

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Speaker 1: for its glut of ubiquitous radio hits including Just Girl,

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Speaker 1: Spider Webs and of course Don't Speak, but also the drama.

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Speaker 1: Good God, the drama. You have inter band romances, imploding jealousy,

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Speaker 1: teenage tragedy, family squabbles, and ska lots of sky. There's

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Speaker 1: drama and scat, there's scama. Oh no, we are and

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Speaker 1: I got to two massive groans out of you. This

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Speaker 1: is gonna be great. Um. And to top it all off,

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Speaker 1: all of this is going down literally in the shadow

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Speaker 1: of Disney's Magic Kingdom, from which the record takes its name.

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Speaker 1: This is so great. The story behind Tragic Kingdom is

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Speaker 1: truly crazy, and the feelings of loss, longing, and anger

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Speaker 1: are apparent, and so many of the tracks no doubt basis.

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Speaker 1: Tony Canal, who we will talk about quite a bit

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Speaker 1: in this episode, is quoted as saying that Tragic Kingdom

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Speaker 1: was quote the outcome of three years of struggle, and

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Speaker 1: there were casualties, specifically his relationship with Gwen Stefani, one

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Speaker 1: of the most iconic front women of the nineties, inspiring

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Speaker 1: artists like Lady Gaga and Paramour's Hayley Williams. But the

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Speaker 1: band also played a role, although some whould argue a

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Speaker 1: small one, in the brief third wave SKA craze of

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Speaker 1: the nineties. I have to admit I knew none of

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Speaker 1: the dramatic behind the music bait backstory to this album

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Speaker 1: when it came out. In What About You, higl, what

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Speaker 1: was your experience with Tragic Kingdom? Were you cowed by

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Speaker 1: its inescapability or charmed by the energy and charisma of

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Speaker 1: Gwen Stefani. I'm gonna let you in a little secret

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Speaker 1: with me, Jordan. I hate SCAT. I hate it so much.

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Speaker 1: I don't even hate it in a way of like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's like like like people were like, oh, listen

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Speaker 1: to all kinds of music except country. I hate Scott.

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Speaker 1: I hate people who are into SKA. I hate Scott culture,

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Speaker 1: I hate I hate Scott. I hate it so much. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me let me put it to kill me. One

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Speaker 1: of these days. It's gonna kill me one of these days.

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Speaker 1: I let me let me hate Scott. Let me try

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Speaker 1: putting in sea this way? Do you actually classify No

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Speaker 1: Doubts music on this record as SCA? I mean this

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Speaker 1: is more popping almost, great question? Great question? Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you know I have a dug into there

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Speaker 1: would because why would I do that? But um, didn't

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Speaker 1: they like have like weren't they like closer to actual

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Speaker 1: SKA like before this? And then this was their record

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Speaker 1: where like some big like Robert Mutt Lang guy got

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Speaker 1: his mits into them and was like, you gotta smooth

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Speaker 1: off some of those edges to make it. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: guy who's saying nothing's gonna break my stride and the

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Speaker 1: eighties was called into work with them, which we'll touch

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Speaker 1: on them later. So yeah, that's some of it. What

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Speaker 1: do you hate about Scott exactly? You know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: that quote you do, the almost famous thing to start

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Speaker 1: with everything. Um, yeah, no, the you know what, it's

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Speaker 1: the it's marching band kid energy grafted on, yeah, grafted

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Speaker 1: onto the most surface level interest and the exploration of

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Speaker 1: Caribbean culture. Yeah, it's like that thing about that Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Buffett quote, like crafting a vision of the Caribbean that

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Speaker 1: had no people of color in it. Like, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I not trying to short sell Gwen Stefani as like

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Speaker 1: a nineties figurehead, but I the fact that someone I

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Speaker 1: saw a tweet I can't take credit for this that

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Speaker 1: said people are shocked at the thing that she's like

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Speaker 1: dating that that big potato are married to him now.

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Speaker 1: But someone was like, yeah, but they were like, um,

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Speaker 1: starting out as like a nineties punk adjacent female lead

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Speaker 1: singer and winding up married to a conservative guy named

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Speaker 1: Blake is the most Orange County ever. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I have to give her credit for you know, they

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Speaker 1: did like, oh you know what song I actually really

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Speaker 1: like is underneath it all? And they do have like

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Speaker 1: a I think they have a Jamaican dance hall artist

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Speaker 1: on that one. Right, Yeah, so all right, whatever they took,

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Speaker 1: they took steps to fix that, even though she did

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Speaker 1: have that whole phase where she was like, look at

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Speaker 1: the Japanese women I have you I am using as

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Speaker 1: an appendage to my career. They will not speak, and

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Speaker 1: I will have them with me at all times. I'll

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Speaker 1: tack the nice thing you said about on to the

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Speaker 1: end of this episode to give it a nice narrative.

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Speaker 1: Art people seem to like that with the Jimmy Buffett thing,

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Speaker 1: there was a change there. Old group drama has a change,

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Speaker 1: so the hero's journey. Also, I saw this behind the

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Speaker 1: music like this was like the behind the music that

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Speaker 1: came on second only to like Poison and bon Jovi

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Speaker 1: growing up. And that's why I like, without any exposure

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Speaker 1: to the yeah yeah, and that's why, just like passively

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Speaker 1: sitting in front of the TV as a kid, I

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Speaker 1: absorbed more about like this damn story. But I don't

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Speaker 1: think I heard it that much growing up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I like Spiderwebs a lot. It's on good. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: you're about to know the story even more high goal

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Speaker 1: and everyone listening you will as well. I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: this whole story of No Doubt makes Fleetwood Max rumors

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Speaker 1: look like a simple misunderstanding. We'll talk about the breakups,

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Speaker 1: the beefs, and even the Bindy's at the heart of

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Speaker 1: No Doubts breakthrough record. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: it's really a story about a female powerhouse coming in

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Speaker 1: there were own as an artist. You'll hear about Gwen Stefani,

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Speaker 1: phone stalker, the mystery of the missing dress from the

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Speaker 1: album cover, the band's weird but deep connection with The Simpsons,

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Speaker 1: and how a stomach bug inspired a standout album cut.

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Speaker 1: Plus we'll do a bit on Walt Disney's cryogenically frozen head.

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Speaker 1: So you don't want to miss that. Is that like

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Speaker 1: the fifth time of this head's appearance on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: but we've never dug into it until this episode. End

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Speaker 1: of the pod Walt Disney's Frozen Head. So, without further ado,

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Speaker 1: here is everything you never knew about Tragic Kingdom By

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Speaker 1: No Doubt. The story of Tragic Kingdom begins in the

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Speaker 1: home of Disney's Magic Kingdom, Anaheim, California. Specifically, it begins

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Speaker 1: in the Stefani household with siblings Eric and Gwen. They

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Speaker 1: were raised by folky parents who worshiped Bob Dylan and

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Speaker 1: Emmy Lou Harris and they even played in a band

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Speaker 1: that gigged at l A's legendary Troubador Club, and these

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Speaker 1: people sound like adorable boomers. Gwen's middle name, Renee, was

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Speaker 1: taken from the four Tops cover of walk Away Renee

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Speaker 1: by The Left Bank. Yeah, and while we're on the

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Speaker 1: topic of Gwen's ancestry, there's a persistent rumor that she's

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Speaker 1: related to Madonna, which is understandable given their vague physical

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Speaker 1: resemblance and their pop diva status, but it's not true.

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Speaker 1: Gwen herself is debunked those claims. According to her, the

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Speaker 1: story took root when her aunt married someone with the

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Speaker 1: last name of Jacone, which is Madonna's seldom used last name.

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Speaker 1: So don't didn't Madonna have a Bundy at one point?

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Speaker 1: To oh, probably at the same time. Yeah, around like

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Speaker 1: beautiful Stranger era. Hey, we'll get into the Bundy's later.

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Speaker 1: That's that's good. That's a second here. Hashtag will get

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Speaker 1: into the Bundy's way, even the unnecessary hashtag lately, So

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Speaker 1: please tweet at us at hashtag. We'll get into the

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Speaker 1: Bundy's later. But enough about Gwen for now. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about her big other, Eric Stefani, who does not get

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Speaker 1: enough press, despite the fact that he really is the

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Speaker 1: one responsible for the formation of no doubt or to

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Speaker 1: blame in your case. By all accounts, he's an extremely creative,

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Speaker 1: talented guy with a passion not just for music but

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Speaker 1: also drawing, as we'll find out later. Reading about him

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Speaker 1: reminded me of those stories about the Beach Boys early days,

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Speaker 1: when Brian Wilson would basically force his younger brothers around

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Speaker 1: the piano to sing harmonies with him. Eric Stefani more

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Speaker 1: or less do the same thing with his little sister Gwen.

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Speaker 1: Speaking to Interview magazine in Gwen recalled Eric was the

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Speaker 1: really talented and overly hyper older brother who was always

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Speaker 1: pounding on the piano, and I was the lazy girl

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Speaker 1: watching the Brady Bunch. I wasn't doing anything, and he

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Speaker 1: would say, come in here and sing with me. I

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Speaker 1: owe everything to him. I learned how to write songs

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Speaker 1: and how to be in a band because of him.

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Speaker 1: And in one of their earliest musical excursions, Eric wroped

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Speaker 1: his kid's sister into singing an original song he'd written

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Speaker 1: called say It Stick It in the Hole. They were kids.

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Speaker 1: It was obstensively about a pencil sharpener, but Eric knew

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Speaker 1: it was cheeky. Gwen later told Rolling Stone in my

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Speaker 1: brother made me do it, and that was really how

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Speaker 1: it was to be for many years to come. She

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Speaker 1: would say. Growing up, my brother was the one with

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Speaker 1: all the talent and all the focus. I had him,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't have to do anything, you know, So

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Speaker 1: this is when scat takes over. Both Stefani kids were

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Speaker 1: incredibly taken by the sounds of imported Jamaican ska and

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Speaker 1: also the late seventies English sub genre known as twotone,

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Speaker 1: which was basically ska mixed with elements of punk and

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Speaker 1: early new Romantic new wave. Were you ever in the

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Speaker 1: two tone? That seems like something you could maybe get into.

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Speaker 1: Um No, but it is fascinating to me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because it's not the I hate using the

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Speaker 1: term authentic, but there's like an element to British scat

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Speaker 1: that's way more that is way more authentic than American

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Speaker 1: scott because like you're growing up in lily White, asked Anaheim.

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Speaker 1: But like all the British guy's obsession with ska kind

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Speaker 1: of did come from the fact that a lot of

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Speaker 1: them were like council Estate neighbors with a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people from the Caribbean, I mean Paul Simon and from

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Speaker 1: the Clash who sings there probably their most reggae song

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Speaker 1: Guns of Brixton. Um, he talks about like he only

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Speaker 1: listened to like dub and reggae growing up. He was

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Speaker 1: coming at punk from the complete opposite direction of you know,

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Speaker 1: like Joe Strummer being super into like Geen Vincent and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting because it's actually kind of like

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Speaker 1: the way that urban blues took hold. I mean it

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Speaker 1: was like when um, there was this sort of great

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Speaker 1: migration from West Indies countries to Britain, especially Coventry, which

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Speaker 1: is where the Specials are formed, and that's where you

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Speaker 1: get the they throw the giant sound system parties where

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Speaker 1: they would daisy chain all the speakers together and do

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Speaker 1: all that. And so I mean that's the environment that

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Speaker 1: the Specials come out of. And that's sort of my

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Speaker 1: issue with American skas that it does take this genuinely

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Speaker 1: syncretic cross cultural product and smooth away all the edges

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Speaker 1: into a bunch of white people dancing around in suits

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Speaker 1: and checkered ties. Do you like um? I mean the

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Speaker 1: music do you like Scott. Well, I mean the music

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Speaker 1: that really got Eric and Gwen Stefani excited and you know,

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Speaker 1: wanting to make music was stuff like Matt Madness. Erica

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Speaker 1: brought home the Stiff Records seven inch of baggy trousers

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Speaker 1: and that was like, that was it for him. That's

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Speaker 1: what made him want to just sit at the piano

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Speaker 1: all day and just pound out Madness melodies and stuff.

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Speaker 1: And they loved the specials as you mentioned, English Beat

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Speaker 1: and select Or I think was a big one. Were

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Speaker 1: you ever in any of them? No? I think the

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Speaker 1: only stuff that I actually still listened to from that

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Speaker 1: is like the Plee Scratch Perry, like the dub stuff

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Speaker 1: because it just it's so spacey and like it's almost

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Speaker 1: like drone music, you know. And Lee Scratch Perry is hilarious. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he's one of the best interviewees of all time, just

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Speaker 1: a genuine crazy person. Lee Scratch Perry's talking about burning

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Speaker 1: down his studio because it was possessed. Like that's what's interesting, Like,

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Speaker 1: you give me the really insane people, uh not not

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Speaker 1: a bunch of dorks from Anaheim. Well, getting back to

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Speaker 1: the dors from Anaheim, you know, I mean Eric and

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Speaker 1: Gwen Stefani where these board suburban kids in this seriously

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Speaker 1: boring suburb of l a Anaheim. And there was something

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Speaker 1: about the way these English groups celebrated the mundane things

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Speaker 1: about life, going to school, getting stuck in the rain,

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Speaker 1: taking the bus, with all these raucous up temple horn

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Speaker 1: driven tracks that really appealed to them, gave a sense

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Speaker 1: of I guess, romance and excitement to their own boring,

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Speaker 1: everyday live so you can almost see why it would

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Speaker 1: resonate with kids in the boring suburbs. At Eric's insistence,

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Speaker 1: he and Gwen made their concert debut at a school

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Speaker 1: talent show in the mid eighties when they played on

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Speaker 1: My Radio by the Selectors just pretty cool first concert song. Uh, Gwen,

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Speaker 1: this is adorable. Couldn't remember the words and held the

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Speaker 1: lyric sheet in her hand the whole time, which is

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Speaker 1: a front person no no, but I love it all

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Speaker 1: the same. She was clearly very nervous, and to help

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Speaker 1: with her confidence, her mother made her address and it

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Speaker 1: was a tweed outfit copied from the dress that Julie

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Speaker 1: Andrews wears and the sound of music. When Fraulein Maria

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Speaker 1: leaves the Abbey and sings I have confidence in me.

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Speaker 1: She was hoping that would like give her daughter more

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Speaker 1: confidence on the stage. I mean, Gwen Stefani fans know

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Speaker 1: that she loves the sound of music. It's her favorite

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Speaker 1: movie and she would revisit it on the track wind

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Speaker 1: It Up from her second solo album, The Sweet Escape,

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Speaker 1: which samples the Lonely Goat Herd. This is just the

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Speaker 1: first of many instances of Gwen Stefani being an adorable nerd.

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Speaker 1: She was also a big fan of making her own clothes,

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Speaker 1: and she would later say there were so many disaster

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Speaker 1: stories about me staying up all night trying to make

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Speaker 1: something for a show the next day. Apparently she didn't

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Speaker 1: even have her own stylist into the two thousands, so

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Speaker 1: the height of No Doubts fame, she was choosing all

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Speaker 1: around outfits and you know, putting rhinestones on shirts and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and she was doing all that herself. Uh yeah. Researching

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Speaker 1: this episode really maybe like Gwen Stefani a lot more,

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Speaker 1: seems despite what you said at the top of the episode,

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Speaker 1: very sweet. Yeah, she's she's she's yeah, you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: I don't I bear her no quarrel. I mean, she

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Speaker 1: was married to Gavin Rossdale, so the ladies done her time.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't long after this school talent show performance

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Speaker 1: that Eric and Gwen Stefani decided to form a proper band,

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Speaker 1: and the siblings joined for uces with Gwen's co worker

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Speaker 1: at a local dairy queen, a young Bad Brains fan

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Speaker 1: by the name of John Spence, and he was an upbeat,

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Speaker 1: effervescent guy who was fond of sprinkling the phrase no

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Speaker 1: doubt in the conversations habit that would yield the band's name.

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Speaker 1: And this John Spence guy would be the frontman extraordinaire

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Speaker 1: center stage doing back flips, while somewhat reticent Gwen would

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Speaker 1: sing back up and kind of keep to herself at

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Speaker 1: the edge of the stage. Eric Stefani would be playing

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Speaker 1: keyboards and serve as the band's chief songwriter, and that

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Speaker 1: was a nucleus of the group. Their sound, especially in

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Speaker 1: this embryonic era, was a funny mixed influences. Writing his

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Speaker 1: profile and Spin, Jonathan Bernstein characterized No Doubt as quote

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Speaker 1: the last American new wave group. Rinky dink keyboards, farting horns,

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Speaker 1: sticato guitars and vibratos, splattered vocal gurgles, quacks and squeals

275
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Speaker 1: and their two tones Scott influence would help established them

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Speaker 1: as vanguards of the third wave. Scott seen alongside Real

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Speaker 1: Big Fish, Less than Jake, The Mighty Mighty Boss Stones,

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Speaker 1: Sublime and your favorite Rancid and the refracted take on

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Speaker 1: the Specials. You know, it's funny that they covered h

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Speaker 1: not Rancid, but no doubt they covered um, It's My

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Speaker 1: Life the talk talk song. So there is that, like

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Speaker 1: there is that like new wave kind of influence. And

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Speaker 1: also you found someone comparing them to Ngo Bongo. Oh yeah, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I mean the title track, The Tragic Kingdom sounds like

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Speaker 1: a Danny Elfman thing. Yeah, we'll get into that later.

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Speaker 1: It's like psychedelic Carnival from Hell type track. Well, as

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Speaker 1: most bands end up. The position that most bands find

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Speaker 1: themselves in is eating a bassist, and uh we enter

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Speaker 1: Tony Canal, who I don't know, do be do fans

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Speaker 1: hate him more? Yeah? I won't even you can't call

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Speaker 1: him the villain in this love story. But I mean

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Speaker 1: they were children divisive figure well. Tony Canal born in India,

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Speaker 1: raised in England and arrived in the Golden State at

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Speaker 1: the age of eleven. Um Tony joined the band after

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Speaker 1: seeing one show of Theirs at the age of sixteen.

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Speaker 1: He auditioned a week later and after playing two songs

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Speaker 1: with him, he was in the band, and uh, Gwen

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Speaker 1: was smitten. Yeah, she said. She ran home after this

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Speaker 1: first rehearsal and stared at herself in the mirror and said,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, what am I gonna do? Oh? Come on,

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Speaker 1: that's really cute. It is cute. I mean, you know

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Speaker 1: they're children, they're teenagers. Man, Um, she's a year older

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Speaker 1: than him. I think it's got the like Lindsay Stevie

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Speaker 1: thing was how much cocaine was there? Yeah, we're not

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Speaker 1: talking about that. Not much. So it did take a

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Speaker 1: few months. But after a house show, Tony and Gwen

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Speaker 1: walked home together and she made the first move. She said, dude,

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Speaker 1: are you gonna kiss me or what? And Tony admirably

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Speaker 1: thought of the band first. He said, no, what about

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Speaker 1: the band since it was an unspoken rule that no

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Speaker 1: one in the band date Gwen, which was sort of

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Speaker 1: I guess um ambiently in the air because of Eric

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Speaker 1: right as the band brother was the leader of the band.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a pretty big reason not to, and

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Speaker 1: I guess she wormed down, but he assumed it was

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Speaker 1: going to be like a bit of a fling and

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Speaker 1: she fell horde. Uh, to use Gwen's words, she was

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Speaker 1: in love. But they had to what are they sneaking around?

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Speaker 1: How do you do that when you plan in a

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Speaker 1: rehearsal space like the size of wel postage stamp. I

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Speaker 1: guess things came to a head during a Halloween party

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Speaker 1: that they were playing, where Tony showed up in costume

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Speaker 1: dressed as a woman, and before end got there, his

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Speaker 1: bandmates all took him aside and said, if we find

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Speaker 1: out you're going out with Gwen, you're dead. Uh. That

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Speaker 1: brings us to the lovely evocative image of Tony Canal

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Speaker 1: dressed as a woman, sitting outside on a curb, crying

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Speaker 1: his mask are off. Um. Yeah. He said that their

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Speaker 1: relationship was I think his quote was a secret of

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Speaker 1: immense proportions, Like this wasn't like, oh, let's keep this

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Speaker 1: secret because it just adds a little excitement to it,

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Speaker 1: Like no, this was for real. They didn't want anyone

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Speaker 1: to know. Ah. Yeah, And he took her to prom,

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Speaker 1: at which point she was already a college freshman, which

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Speaker 1: must have scored him immeasurable points with his classmates. He

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Speaker 1: bring in the college girl to your high school problem.

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Speaker 1: Do you date anyone in a band or in your band? No? No, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean other than my wife. But we were only

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Speaker 1: in the Halloween cover bands together. Um No, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's a bad idea. Yeah, but you know we got

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Speaker 1: all these great stories out of it and some ska um. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: they worked together, they had the same part time job.

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Speaker 1: What a yeah. Tony again kind of went in this

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Speaker 1: with a different set of expectations than Gwen. She was

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Speaker 1: heavily invested, and she said this is a semi alarming

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Speaker 1: quote from a college freshman. All I ever did was

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Speaker 1: look at Tony and pray that God would let me

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Speaker 1: have a baby with him. Uh. This intensity would ultimately

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Speaker 1: drive Tony away and inspire Lion share the track list

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Speaker 1: on Tragic Kingdom. But before we get to that, we come,

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Speaker 1: as we must, to the Bindy. She yeah, man, I

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Speaker 1: mean I don't think a lot of this band would

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Speaker 1: fly in two you know, or the Howard Juku girl's face,

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Speaker 1: But um, I guess she passed it off as a

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Speaker 1: loving tribute to Tony's culture that she got from his mom,

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Speaker 1: who was India. It should be said, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: so there you go. But back in no doubt, I

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Speaker 1: can't even say they were at a crossroads. They they

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Speaker 1: had barely set out on their journey. They were barely

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Speaker 1: a year old, but they were still making a name

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Speaker 1: for themselves as a party band in the LA area,

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Speaker 1: and in December they were offered a gig at the

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Speaker 1: Roxy Club, which, as we talked about in the Guns

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Speaker 1: and Roses episode, was the hub of the l A

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Speaker 1: music scene on the Sunset Strip at the time, and

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Speaker 1: the band's lead singer, John Spence was so pumped for

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Speaker 1: this he urged everyone to rehearse all through their Christmas

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Speaker 1: vacation because this seemed like their big break. And then

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Speaker 1: something absolutely horrific happened. On December twenty one, just days

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Speaker 1: before the gig, Spence drove to a deserted parking lot

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Speaker 1: and shot himself at the age of eighteen, and he

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Speaker 1: left the two page letter that read, in part, I

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Speaker 1: think I felt too much pain and all I see

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Speaker 1: in my future was more and he signed it I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry by and the bands were beside themselves because he

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Speaker 1: seemed so up and energetic. You know, he's a guy

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Speaker 1: at the front of the stage doing backflips, and he

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Speaker 1: just seemed so chipper all the time. And Eric Stefani,

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Speaker 1: I mean, no one in the band really ever figured

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Speaker 1: it out, but Eric Stefani theorized that maybe it had

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Speaker 1: something to do with this pressure of the upcoming gig.

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Speaker 1: So the surviving members announced that the Roxy gig would

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Speaker 1: be No Doubts final show, and they played it as

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Speaker 1: a tribute to John Spencer, their fall in front man.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately they decided to reunite a month later, believing

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Speaker 1: that John would have wanted them to keep going. And

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Speaker 1: there's an unreleased song called Dear John that pays tribute

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Speaker 1: to their their friend. So to take over the spot

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Speaker 1: as a lead vocalist, they hired a guy by the

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Speaker 1: name of Alan Nead, who was described by Gwen is

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Speaker 1: a quote disco smooth dorc. I don't know what disco

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Speaker 1: smooth means, but it's very evocative. But then he and

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend had an unplanned pregnancy, so he quit the

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Speaker 1: band to get married and become a father, and he

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Speaker 1: left Gwen as No Doubts front woman forevermore. And then

396
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Speaker 1: the remainder of the classic No Doubt lineup began to

397
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Speaker 1: coalesce around Gwen, her brother Eric, and bassist Tony Canal.

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Speaker 1: First was Tom Dumont, a guitarist who had received casses.

399
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Speaker 1: Destroyer album was a Christmas gift and that kicked off

400
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Speaker 1: a lifetime of metal treading, and we auditioned for the band.

401
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Speaker 1: He disguised his long hair with a ponytail tucked into

402
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Speaker 1: his hat because he wanted to try to hide his

403
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Speaker 1: whole metal thing. And then drummer Adrian Young was a

404
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 1: longtime fan of the band, and he was so smitten

405
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: with Gwen that he once called the number on their

406
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,479
Speaker 1: d I Y cassettes that they sold at concerts just

407
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Speaker 1: as an excuse to talk to her. And once I

408
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: guess he'd heard that maybe she and Tony had broken up,

409
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Speaker 1: so he went to the department store where she worked

410
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Speaker 1: to try to ask her out. Um no dice. But

411
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: when No Doubt we're looking for a new drummer, he

412
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Speaker 1: went to the audition. Uh he really wanted the job.

413
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: He lied and said he'd been playing drums for eight

414
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: years instead of barely a year. But then he became

415
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: their full time drummer and He was famous within the

416
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: band for disrobing at the drop of a hat, which,

417
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: given his apparent heelings for Gwen, reads as slightly exhibitionist

418
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: and suspect. But I'll choose not to dwell on it.

419
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: So by no doubt lineup is complete diet flee. This

420
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: is what I would call that guy. UM. Please read

421
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 1: the heading on this first to get the ska, then

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Speaker 1: you get the flop, then you get the power. That's

423
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: good one. I have to say, Yeah, no doubt plays there.

424
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: They're getting around l A, playing festivals in the early nineties,

425
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: and they attract the attention of a gentleman named Tony Ferguson,

426
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: who is an ex UH Stiff Records E was he

427
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: a and R there too, and so now he was

428
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: working for Interscope, newly formed by Jimmy Iovini UH and

429
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: Tony Ferguson. I just read that he was impressed by

430
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 1: seeing a bunch of stage divers at one of their shows,

431
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: and UH took Ivny to a gig and uh iven

432
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: he said that girl will be a star in five years.

433
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: And this was so almost five years to the day.

434
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: Way to be Jimmy UM. The band released their self

435
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: titled debut in recording at the classic move of in

436
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, the night shift at the

437
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: studio when the rate was cheaper. I'd love how many

438
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: things this pops up in bands like bios, because this

439
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: when I was making recording in studios that was never

440
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: even offered to me, Like everyone was like, no, we're

441
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: not recording this overnight. No, I would imagine you have

442
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: to pay the engineers and producers. Yeah. Um, but you know,

443
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: the album took a dive, as one would expect in

444
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: the climate of slotting your friendly, your radio friendly, quirky

445
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: ska new wave up against Alice and Chains and never

446
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: Mind and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you want to,

447
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: you know, if you wanted to illustrative anecdote from the

448
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: time the band and gave away promo kazoos. Yeah, that

449
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: seems like an Eric Stefani thing, like he was the one.

450
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: It was more in the whole Danny Alfman on Goo

451
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: Boy and goes stuff like that. He brought like elements

452
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: of like weird scock Abberet to the whole mix. So yeah,

453
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: that seems like it's something that comes from him. Which again, yeah,

454
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: Lane Stanley showed up to Ellis and changed countrys with

455
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: a syringe hanging out of his arm and No doubts like,

456
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: have us have a kazoo? Oh anyway, the label yanked

457
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: their tour support this that's rough when you bombed that hardly,

458
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: The labels like, we're not even sending you on tour anymore,

459
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: and needless to say, did not ask for a follow up.

460
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: Tell him they blew their budget on the second album

461
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: on Kazoos. The kazoos were a bad move. Uh, And uh,

462
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: you know I just mentioned this earlier. The l A

463
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: scene at the time is dominated by, you know, sort

464
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: of the fallout of hair metal because all those hair

465
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: metal bands were still big at this point in the

466
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: early nineties, and um, you know, as I also alluded

467
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: to earlier garbage, white guy funk except for Fishbone who Rule,

468
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: but No doubt didn't fit into that landscape. As Gwen

469
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: would later tell Interview Magazine, we were always the dork

470
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: band from Anaheim. We never were cool enough or tough

471
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: enough because we grew up in Orange County with all

472
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: those punk bands. We played with them, but I always

473
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: felt like Shirley Temple, just this little lollipop out there,

474
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: and I could never have a really raspy or loud,

475
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: screaming voice. We just never fit in. Plus all the

476
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: l A people looked down on us because we were

477
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: from Orange County. We weren't cool. Uh. And in the

478
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone profile they note that her vanity case had

479
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: stickers that just said dork on it. Have you ever

480
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: seen video from like late eighties early nineties of she

481
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: liked rings it, She's po going, She's like push ups

482
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: on stay remember all that? Yeah? Oh man, they said, yeah. Anyway.

483
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: At one point, a DJ for massively influential l A

484
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: radio station k Rock said at the time it would

485
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: take an act of God for this band to get

486
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: on the radio. Um. Yeah. And they in behind the music,

487
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: I remember this. They talked about their tour dates for

488
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: the tour and behind this record, where there were seven

489
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: members of the band and four people in the audience

490
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: at the bar and they were only there because they

491
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: met him at the hotel and put them on the list,

492
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: so they didn't even pay. Gwen later said, we had

493
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: some really good shows when no one was there. I'm

494
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: telling you which Jordan's you know you and I have

495
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: played Gutter four bands of four on Wednesday. Yeah, those

496
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: are some of the best ones and they were still

497
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: they were still all in college around this time, so

498
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 1: you know, at least, you know whatever, at least they

499
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: at least they had a backup plan and said what

500
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: were we doing in college? Like we didn't have we

501
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: weren't signed the Interscope that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well

502
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: at least I wasn't playing ska uh disgust. I'm sure

503
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: Scosti has defenders. This is like a red hot chili

504
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: pepers thing where they're gonna come out after me when

505
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: I find Yeah, I was gonna say, what are they

506
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: gonna do, like dance around me and say pick it

507
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: up a bunch of times hit me with a trombone.

508
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be

509
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: right back with more too much information in just a moment.

510
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: So h no doubt. We're upset with Interscope at dragging

511
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: their feet and letting them put out their follow up album.

512
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: So they recorded a bunch of songs in the garage

513
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: of their shared house on Beacon Avenue in Anaheim, which

514
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: had belonged to Gwen and Eric Stefani's grandmother, and when

515
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: their grandmother died, it went to her parents and they

516
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: agreed to let them turn it into student a rehearsal place,

517
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: and it's in the beginning of the Just a Girl

518
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: video also trapped in a box. Uh, literally around the

519
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: corner from Disneyland. This uh, you know, rehearsal studio spot

520
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: looms large, as they say in the band's legend, and

521
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 1: it was sold a few years back to someone who

522
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: had no idea who they were. Um and you know

523
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: Sunrise Sunset. They banged out an album's worth the material

524
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: over a weekend, calling it the Beacon Street Collection and uh,

525
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: it sounds like a mall. Yeah, right, the Claire's Beacon

526
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: Street Collection. Yeah, I don't know, does it I didn't

527
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: listen to it. I've never I'll never listened to it.

528
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: Does it sound like Jordan giving you a capsule review?

529
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: It's more raw than a lot of the stuff that

530
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: you would hear in the radio years later from Tragic

531
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: Kingdom and Returned saturn Um. It definitely is what was

532
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: lacking on the debut album like that one maybe seemed

533
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: a little more polished than what their fans were used to,

534
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: or as this almost felt like a live album, and

535
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: it also had the track Bradley Noel from Sublime, which

536
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: is weird. Um, I don't really understand how they were

537
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: able to get away with just recording an album on

538
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: their own wall, signed to a major label, and then

539
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 1: they just printed it up themselves and sold it at

540
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: concerts Like I guess that's just speaks to how Little

541
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: Interscope thought of them. They were like, oh, yeah, we

542
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: don't care what you're doing, so they sold. They pressed

543
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: in a thousand copies in a month or two. I

544
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: just saw this sold a hundred thousand copies. That's wild

545
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 1: for something recorded in a house. Um, but uh, you know,

546
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: rather than being furious, Jimmy areviny so perhaps wisely saw

547
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: the dollar signs and decided to let him record a

548
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: proper follow up. Unfortunately, for this new album, they were

549
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: turning in these like six to eight minute long epics

550
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: that were just all convoluted and didn't fit on a

551
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: pop album at all, and only two of them, both

552
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: by Eric Stefani, actually made it onto the Tragic Kingdom

553
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: track list. As we know it. There's the psychedelic ish

554
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: song The Climb, and also the title track, which describes

555
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: a dystopian Disneyland and Waltz cryogenically frozen tears as dripping icicles,

556
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: which there you get the Danny Alfin go Bo and

557
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: go type thing. There. Um, while we're here, why not

558
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: do a little sidebar on Walt Disney's frozen head. But

559
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: why not? Let's do it. So, despite the persistent urban legend,

560
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: Walt Disney is not frozen. I was actually kind of not,

561
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: kind of very disappointed to learn this. The New York

562
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: Times reported in two thousand three that his death certificate

563
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: says he was cremated, and according to a PBS documentary,

564
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: his ashes were interred at a family malls of Liam

565
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: at Forest Lawn Cemetery in Glendale, California, and people close

566
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: to Disney have also refuted this frozen theory. His own daughter,

567
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: Diane wrote in our nineteen seventy two biography, there is

568
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: absolutely no truth that my father, Walt Disney wished to

569
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: be frozen. I doubt that my father had ever even

570
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: heard of cryogenics. I questioned this because, well, it was

571
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: really into technology and futurism, and at the time of

572
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: his death he was working on EPCOT, you know, the

573
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. That was his last big project.

574
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't put it past them. To be aware

575
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: of it. And the subject of cryogenics was actually pretty

576
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: big at the time he died in nineteen sixty six,

577
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: because there have been a book that had been published

578
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: the Fears earlier by Robert C. W Attinger called The

579
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: Prospect of Immortality, And that's really what brought the topic

580
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: of cryogenic freezing to popular consciousness. So it's really unclear

581
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: with this whole rumor that Disney Rose himself got started. Uh,

582
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: it's probably due in part to the fact that his

583
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: funeral was kept really under wraps, and so you factor

584
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: that in with his reputation as a technological innovator, and

585
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: there you go. People just kind of when they when

586
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: there's a lack of information. We know this as digital

587
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: news journalists. Uh, people start to do to know where

588
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 1: it came from. Where I don't know, According to PBS

589
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: in early nineteen sixty seven, a few weeks after Disney's

590
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: death in nineteen sixty six, a reporter for a tabloid

591
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: newspaper called The National Spotlight claimed he had snuck into St.

592
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: Joseph's Hospital in Burbank, directly across the street from Disney Studios,

593
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: where what was being treated and the reporter said that

594
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 1: he disguised himself as an orderly broke into a storage

595
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: room and saw Disney suspended in a cryogenic metal cylinder.

596
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: I did not know that was where it came from. Wow.

597
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, the PBS does debunc it says

598
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: the National Spotlight doesn't appear in most major newspaper archives.

599
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: But you know that doesn't necessarily prove prove anything, and

600
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: people can just minigraph whatever they want. And in the sixties,

601
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: and how deep does the rabbit hole go? The hospital

602
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: that he was being treated at when he died was

603
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: right across from the Burbanks studios, and I guess at

604
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: night the staff at Disney would leave all the lights

605
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: on on the studio so he could see it and

606
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: just kind of feel like bolstered, knowing that, you know,

607
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: work was still going on. Wait, what gets deeper? Does

608
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: it get deeper? Bob Nelson, former president of the Los

609
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: Angeles based Cryonics Society of California, gave a nineteen two

610
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: interviewed to The Los Angeles Times directly claiming that Disney

611
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: wanted to be frozen. Uh. In l A magazine interviewed

612
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: Nelson again. Chris Nichols asked him to elaborate, and uh

613
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: he said. Nelson said, quote, we got a call from

614
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: Walt Disney Studios asking us how many people had been

615
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: frozen and what kind of facilities we had and who

616
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: the medical staff was. This is all from an sf

617
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: Gate article, by the way, so if you're interested, it's

618
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: out there. It's from October of last year. So whoa.

619
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: I am very I wondered what was happening in October

620
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: of last year? That would ye nothing else in anniversary, nothing,

621
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: nothing big going on. Do you know the last thing

622
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: that Walt Disney ever wrote a sur literally like like

623
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: pen and paper, last thing he ever when he last

624
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: time he ever put pen to paper, it was that

625
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: s logo that people draw in middle school. I don't

626
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: know what, do you want me to just keep pitching stuff?

627
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: It was Kurt Russell. He wrote the name Kurt oh

628
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: no before I think you told me that. Oh man,

629
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: maybe his consciousness lives on in in Kurt Russell. He

630
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: was like, that's the vessel, that's the vessel into Yeah,

631
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: because the movie that I think, the next movie that

632
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: Kurt Russell made was called The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes.

633
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: So maybe, yeah, maybe that's some kind of like hint,

634
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: Kurt if you say Kurt, if you're trapped blinked twice?

635
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: Did you see There's this incredible movie that came out

636
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: in a couple of years ago, I think team called

637
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: The Further Adventures of Waltz Frozen Head. And the whole

638
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: plot of this movie is that Walt's head is unfrozen

639
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: once a year and just brought around the park in

640
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: a jar to oversee operations. And it's just about a

641
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 1: day with this like park Lackey Cartner around Walt's frozen

642
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: head in the jar and they're like evolving relationship throughout

643
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: the day. Um. And the really hilarious part is that

644
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: this was made without the knowledge or permission of the

645
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: Walt Disney Company or his family, which is hilarious, like

646
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: that they just weren't sued into oblivion. Yeah, that's true. Anyhow,

647
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: No doubts. Five and a half minute title track about

648
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: Waltz Frozen Head was not destined to set the charts

649
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 1: on fire, so Interscope called in a Ringer producer Matthew

650
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: Wilder a k a. The guy who's sank Break My

651
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: Stride back in the eighties. That's right, they got the

652
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: break my stride guy to come in and try to

653
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: polish their sound. Not exactly the coolest dude in the world,

654
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: but he had a background at idiosyncratic new wave and

655
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 1: they thought that he'd be the right guy to reign

656
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 1: in Eric Stefani's long Sca Prague epics. I'm really sorry

657
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: I just said scot Prague. You know there's such a thing.

658
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: I'm sure there is. Yeah. Catch twenty two I think

659
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: is the big one. As a really all the Marching

660
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: Bank all again, all the Marching Band kids I knew

661
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: in high school. We're like, oh, Catch twenty two, great

662
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:29,959
Speaker 1: horn charts now moving right along. Unfortunately, no doubt, we're

663
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: not happy by having this interloper in their midst despite

664
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: his new wave credentials. They just felt like they were

665
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: being intruded on by this eighties has been, and Gwen

666
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: later characterized it as such an invasion at first. Yeah,

667
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, obviously the guy taking it hardest

668
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: was Eric, who had you know, as Gwen and pretty

669
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: much everyone else says, had been the creative engine of

670
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 1: the band, writing all of this material over the past

671
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: eight years. That is tough to being in a band

672
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: for nearly a deck aid and you get a guy

673
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: coming in being like, we're throwing all their scrapping it. So, yeah,

674
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: he hated the idea of a stranger coming in and

675
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: meddling with the process and the song. So he started

676
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: to distance himself from the band, first from the writing

677
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: and then the recording, and then he even just stopped rehearsing,

678
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: which was all the more awkward because all the rehearsals

679
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: were held at his house. Uh. And finally he quit

680
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: the band in September of nineteen. He had previously done

681
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: some animation work on the first two seasons of The Simpsons,

682
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: and so he just went and took a job there

683
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: as an animator. And you said he also did some

684
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 1: work on Ren and Stimpy, Right, Yeah, I was unable

685
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: to find exactly what, but I I saw, I think

686
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: on his IMDb page that he had worked on that too.

687
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: His favorite Simpsons characters Bart and he said, because he

688
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: relates to him, and uh, you know, he actually went

689
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: and subsequently drew his old bandmates into the Homer Puloza

690
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: episode of the Simpsons. One of my favorite Simpsons lines

691
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: of all time. Billy Corgan smashing pumpkins, Homer Simpson smiling

692
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: politely I think that is a cone in line. It

693
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: had to be, yeah. Uh. He also they made an

694
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: appearance on King of the Hill where they played Bobby

695
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: Hills problem the long Shadow of the Fox animation block

696
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 1: in the nineties. Uh. One of the last songs Eric

697
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: wrote for No Doubt was called Bye Bye Birdie, which

698
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: is a mournful farewell song about a baby bird who

699
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: needed to fly off into the sky. A little on

700
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: the nose there Eric uh never recorded, but message received

701
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: um and Uh there's a big Rolling Stone profile from

702
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: the band by Chris Heath. He wrote the incredible Spice

703
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: Girls profile for Rolling Stone too that we talked about

704
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: Spices greater um. But Yeah, Eric had copped to being

705
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: a little bit um off track. I guess you want

706
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: you you put it as he said, I was trying

707
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: too hard to put my personality or my being on

708
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: this planet through the music, and I didn't know how

709
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: to express myself any other way. So when that was compromised,

710
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: I was lost. But I think I found myself more

711
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: by losing that and having to act as a human.

712
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: Art should imitate life, not the other way around. Uh. Consequently,

713
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 1: he moved on to forming a ragtime band performing things

714
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: like Scott Joplin's seminal composition Maple Leaf Rag and the

715
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: theme to The Little Rascals that is did this may never?

716
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: Did he ever have sex? You know? I watching him

717
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: on the Behind the Music episode, which is recorded I

718
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: think in like two thousand or taped in two thousands,

719
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: so it wasn't even like that late after he left,

720
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: like only a couple of years. There's a Again, I

721
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: don't know this man. I know very little about him.

722
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: There's a haunted look. He seems unhappy, not necessarily that

723
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: he left the band, just in general, I get kind

724
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: of I mean, this whole thing reminds me of Brian Wilson,

725
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: like the guy who started the band as the creative

726
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: engine decided to just back away, and then the band

727
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: would say, well, no way, and then built a studio

728
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: in Brian's house to try to like make it easy

729
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: for him, and then he just retreated to his room

730
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: and was like, no, no, no, I really don't want

731
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: to deal with this. Like that's the sense that I'm

732
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: getting here. Um, yeah, I don't know much about what's

733
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: got to be. It's got to be a real head trip.

734
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: You know. You lead a band, you lead a band

735
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: for eight years. Somebody comes in, takes all your personality

736
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: out of it, and they've become one of the biggest

737
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: bands in the world. Um. But the band did step up,

738
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: although it was a blow to them. Um Gwen says

739
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: in the behind the music, we can't have a band

740
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: without Eric, no doubt is Eric Stefani. Uh Tony echoed that.

741
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: He said when Eric left, it was a real pivotal

742
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: moment for the rest of us because he is such

743
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: an incredibly creative musical genius. When he left, it created

744
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: this sort of okay, what are we gonna do now?

745
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: But that forced Tom, Gwen, Adrian and myself to step up. Ah.

746
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: You made the comparison to Pink Floyd following Sid Barrin's departure,

747
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,959
Speaker 1: which is either a compliment or an insult to those

748
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: two men. Um. Yeah, so they did. The other guys

749
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: and girl in the band decided to start truck. Yeah,

750
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: keep on truck and step into the spotlight, filled the void.

751
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: Whatever belabored music critic cliche, we're gonna land on there. Uh.

752
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: Tom Dumont, the guitarist shred Head, he studied classical music, composition,

753
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: classical guitar. Well, he actually I saw that he studied

754
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: music theory for like five semesters and then left when

755
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: they made him play classical guitar, which is funny to

756
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: me because the solo on Don't Speak is like, yeah,

757
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: and I love to drink guitar. Well, but he used

758
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: to pick which apparently like the big no no um

759
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: who the compared Adrian Young to Neil Pert I don't

760
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: remember for the sake of their Twitter mentions and you

761
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: I won't um yeah. And Tony Can played in his

762
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 1: high school jazz band and uh oh yeah, I remember

763
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,959
Speaker 1: in them he was obsessed with Prince in Behind the Music?

764
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: Doesn't he talk about listening to Computer Blue on on

765
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: repeat endlessly? Oh man, I just dredged that one up

766
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: from my subconscious. I'm shocked at how much you're able

767
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: to recall from that. Consider you hate them, I told

768
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: you I watched it so much. It just goes on

769
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: all the time, that one. Bon Jovi and Poison I

770
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: know anyway, But David Cassidy one was a big one

771
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: for me. That was on all the time. That was

772
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: sad though. Well, yeah, how low was I on the

773
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,959
Speaker 1: sidewalk licking the curve? That's how low? I'll never forget.

774
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's rough. Uh. And you know Gwen

775
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: had you know, she does have She looked like a gardener,

776
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: right or who am I thinking of? You know what,

777
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: I can kind of see have a gardener. But she

778
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: was doing the pin curl thing, right, she kind of

779
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: had that oh on the cover when she was doing

780
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: the whole retro Vargas girl thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

781
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: can see, um have a gardner, Veronica Lake with the hair,

782
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: That's who I was thinking. Sorry, um, Gwen. Uh. You know,

783
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: she started writing her own lyrics for the first time,

784
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: including Spiderwebs and Sunday Morning, and that brought, you know,

785
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: a newfound authenticity to the group, probably made it a

786
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 1: little also less arch and weird to have his kind

787
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: of diaristic uh you know, lyrics as opposed to prog ska. Yes,

788
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: so she there, she was singing her own words, and

789
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: boy did she have a lot to say. It was

790
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: traumatic enough when her friend took his own life and

791
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: she was forced into the role as no doubt soule

792
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: lead singer and front woman. Then her big brother, the

793
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: guy who's been a role model and sort of her

794
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: guide her whole life, just leaves and it has to

795
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: be said that was tough on their relationship. After he

796
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: left the band, Gwen and Eric went through their to

797
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: be together at their parents in assistance to patch up

798
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: their relationship, and Gwen later said, I didn't want to

799
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 1: lose my brother, you know, because everything that I am

800
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: is because of him. So that's all really rough with

801
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: the band mass family mess. Now we've got a romantic

802
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: mess too. Gwen gets dumped by bassist Tony Canal in

803
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: this same time frame. They've been together nearly eight years

804
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,959
Speaker 1: and he was feeling stifled by their relationship. He wanted

805
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: space to grow all the usual reasons that people give.

806
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean, they lived together, work together, played music together.

807
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: That's bound to be a strain on anyone's relationship, and

808
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: Gwen later admitted I forced Tony to go out with me.

809
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: This is her quote. He wasn't even interested. I don't

810
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 1: know about that. When we made out that first night,

811
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: I think he thought it was more of a one

812
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 1: night kiss. But then we started going out and after

813
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: that first year, I was going, when are we going

814
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 1: to get married? And yeah, hearing that quote from earlier

815
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: about how she had just looked into his eyes and

816
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: pray to God that they would have a baby together. Yeah,

817
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: maybe she wanted more than he was able to give,

818
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: which is sad. Uh So, this was an awful time

819
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: for Gwen, and, as she said in No Doubts Behind

820
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: the Music special, everyone I loved the most, my two

821
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: boys were gone. That's awful. And she elaborated on this

822
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: in an interview with The O C Register during the

823
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: albums anniversary. She said, quote, I was very naive, I

824
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: was very sheltered, and it depended so much on Tony,

825
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: and then when we broke up, I was like, I

826
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: don't know what to do with my life. I was

827
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: so dependent on him, and then with my brother leaving,

828
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: I mean I followed Eric around like a puppy and

829
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: looked up to him and was doing whatever he told

830
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: me to do. So to put it in classic rock terms,

831
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: Gwen was going through a Pink Floyd sid Barrett situation

832
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: which we touched on earlier, a Fleetwood Mac relationship drama situation,

833
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: and the Beach Boys Brian Wilson style family crisis, all

834
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: once all one person. No one else in the group

835
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: knew what that felt like. All of those things except her.

836
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: That's a lot. And Gwen used to say that Eric,

837
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: this talented cartoonist, invented, you know, in quote Gwen Stefani

838
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: the pop star as a cartoon. But now she was

839
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: forced to take control, and I think it exposed the

840
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: stealinus in her that maybe even she didn't realize she had. Uh. Tony,

841
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: when he broke up with her, offered to quit, no doubt,

842
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: and she wouldn't let him. And then when an interviewer

843
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: asked her if she'd offered to leave to she just

844
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 1: laughed and said, hell no, which is awesome. Um. Yeah.

845
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: The whole experience essentially made a songwriter out of Gwen,

846
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 1: and she began writing lyrics that tried to make sense

847
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: of everything that was happening around her, especially this breakup.

848
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 1: And Tony Canal, to his credit, encouraged her to write

849
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: these lyrics even when they were very clearly attacking him,

850
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: and he later said to me the art was more important.

851
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: And she would write these songs like happy Now on

852
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: Sunday Morning, both of which are pretty vicious, and then

853
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: she would immediately call Tony up and share them and say, dude,

854
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: I totally wrote the Ratis song. I have to read

855
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: it to you. Promise you won't get mad. At me

856
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: and then read these lyrics that are just ripping him apart.

857
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: Don't Speak is the most famous song Gwen wrote about

858
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: her breakup, but Happy Now is the most scathing, and

859
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: it's basically Gwen taunting her ex after he breaks up

860
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: with her, saying she loves her new found freedom, and

861
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: the words include you killed the pair. Not only one

862
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: is breathing, there's no looking back this time. I mean it.

863
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: Are you happy all by yourself? You've got no one else,

864
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: You're by yourself, all by yourself, all by yourself. Pretty brutal. Yeah,

865
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: she would say, it's the perfect revenge song of someone

866
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: who got hurt and love. It was really meant to

867
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: be painful. And she's saying this in like some kind

868
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: of promo video and Tony sitting right there and he says,

869
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: well it worked, so thank you, and he stands up

870
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: and walks off camera and she laughs. It's like, seems

871
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 1: like it's meant to be a joke, but way harsh.

872
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: Tie that man has a parlance at the time, that

873
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: man has a steely resolve at the core of yeah

874
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: yeah that The videos are interesting to see them interact

875
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: and hear her talk about the inspiration behind these songs,

876
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: and uh, a K rock DJ, who claimed that it

877
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: would take an act of God to get them played

878
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: on the radio, played Happy Now as the band's popularity

879
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: was on the ascent and people knew the relationship drama

880
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: the heart of the lyrics at this point, and as

881
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: the song ended, the DJ leans into the mic and goes,

882
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: take that, Tony. So this is all over town. This

883
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: is your relationship, Dirney Laundry is being beamed out by

884
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: the most popular radio station in l A. And everyone

885
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: knows what it's about. So this I mean again, Gwen,

886
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: Poor Gwen. It's a terrible, terrible situation for everybody. And

887
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: guitarist Tom Dumont said in the Behind the Music special

888
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: that sessions were lockward at this point. Understandably, he said, quote,

889
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: there was so much tension in the room. It was

890
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: just so thick it was almost unbearable. There were many

891
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: occasions when Gwen had to just leave the rehearsal room

892
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: to collect yourself, and she later commented, even though the

893
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: breakup was difficult, it made her a better songwriter and

894
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: helped her find her creative power. And the whole genesis

895
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: of this album is especially interesting to me because it

896
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: shows that it really does follow in the grand tradition

897
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: of the extremely intimate, almost confessional singer songwriter stuff. But well,

898
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: Atlantas Marsette was taken much more seriously. With Jagged Little Pill,

899
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: which is released four months before Tragic Kingdom, No Doubt

900
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: and specifically Gwen Stefani were treated as superficial and fluffy.

901
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,479
Speaker 1: And maybe it's the band's presentation. Maybe it's the blonde thing.

902
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, um, maybe it's the uptempeled tracks. Maybe

903
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: it's the horns that you hate so much. I don't know,

904
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: but I think Tragic Kingdom has just as much emotional

905
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: authenticity as your Jagged Little Pills, your twenty ones, your

906
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: Fiona Apple's title, your Tapestry easy even um. Might not

907
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: be equal for a musical of technical standpoint, but I

908
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: think it has that same degree of emotional authenticity and truth.

909
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's tough. I wonder if they actually expected

910
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: to have to tour and promote this thing for They

911
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: talked about that, well, they they were supposed tour for

912
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: I think two or three months they went out for,

913
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: like I think it's twenty eight months ultimately, Yeah, and

914
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: that kind of drove mother than It's understandably because everyone

915
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: all around the world, not only they just knocked off balance,

916
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: but the fact that they're traveling for years at a time,

917
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: but they're just constantly being asked about all the most

918
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: heartbreaking things in their lives. So yeah, that's gotta be rough. Yeah,

919
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: and this is um, this is also kind of when

920
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: they start, um fore grounding her again. I remember from

921
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 1: the behind the music thing and them talking about like,

922
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, she is such a charismatic person and she

923
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: is this just like powerhouse on stage, and the rest

924
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: of them are kind of you know, all due respect

925
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: to the other three just dudes, and so like, you know,

926
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of magazine covers at the time,

927
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: but I'm sure Spin Spin was one was Riot Gurly,

928
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: I think we mentioned that later, but the headline was

929
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: Riot Gurly No Doubts something or other. Yeah yeah, um,

930
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:08,240
Speaker 1: I don't like that headline. I'm sure neither did Bikini

931
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: that now, so we get to don't speak that which

932
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: is you know, the archetypal still their biggest hit, do

933
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 1: you think or was one of those? Um oh yeah, okay,

934
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: but it is uh, you know, Gwen's steely Resolve song moment.

935
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: It's a self a spring moment, she told Spin. When

936
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: we broke up, I still forced Tony to kiss me.

937
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,439
Speaker 1: That's weird. I was in denial. I might have lost

938
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: the title of girlfriend, but in my eyes, we were

939
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: still together for like a year. He didn't have to

940
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: come to my house when I demanded it, he didn't

941
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: have to do anything. But when he felt like it,

942
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: I was there. It was horrible. Uh yeah, and so

943
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: that top yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's where this uh,

944
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: that's where this song comes from. They have been kicking

945
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: around a rough sketch of it for quite a long time,

946
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 1: with a different structure, different words. Eric Stefani had actually

947
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: written the music for it and gone through a couple

948
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: of different incarnations before Gwen arrived at the final draft

949
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: of the lyrics. Um six takes on that guitar solo.

950
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: Do you think that's a six take guitar solo? In

951
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: Jordan's that's not even six takes to do it. They're

952
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: all stitched together to make the one final one. Yeah,

953
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: Tony said, he told a complex later because it was

954
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: so real and we were living it, all that stuff

955
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: came up in that song. That's the real deal. That's

956
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: our lives and that's what was happening to us at

957
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: the time. It was a very very intense period of

958
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: our lives and it was all put out there to

959
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: share with everybody. Uh And as you mentioned earlier, when

960
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: the Son became a hit, they were on tour for

961
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: two plus years and uh, yeah, having to rehash your

962
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: personal low point in front of a massive audience every

963
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: night for two plus years. Tony later told The Guardian

964
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,720
Speaker 1: of the time we were on tour for Tragic Kingdom

965
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: for twenty eight months. We were going through the breakup

966
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: and in every interview we were talking about it, so

967
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: we were opening this wound on an hourly basis. It

968
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: was so brutal. I don't know how, but we made

969
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 1: it through. Yeah. I always feel bad when people have

970
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 1: a hit written about something traumatic in their lives. And

971
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,919
Speaker 1: I remember having to interview the guy from Train about

972
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: Drops of Jupiter, specifically about the twentieth anniversary of that song,

973
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: which is about his mother's death. And I got the

974
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: sense when I was interviewing him that he didn't particularly

975
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: feel great about having to sit all day and dredge

976
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: all this up. Despite the fact that I don't know

977
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 1: who was making a promote the twenty anniversary of the song,

978
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: because I don't even know if there was a reissue

979
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: or anything, but yeah, you know I have I always

980
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: feel bad for those people, and I always feel bad

981
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: being the guy at the other end of the phone,

982
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: at the other end of the microphone or whatever it is,

983
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: having to ask those questions. Oh man. Anyway, so back

984
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 1: to no doubt. Um, you mentioned earlier that the prevailing

985
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: may head of around this was Tony as villain, which remember,

986
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: I don't think that's helped by the video, don't they

987
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: do like a lot of shots of him kind of like, well,

988
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 1: we we will touch on this. The video for Don't

989
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: Speak was basically when everybody in the band were really

990
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: mad that Gwen was getting all the headlines and getting

991
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: all the cover shots and everything, and they decided to

992
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: basically address that head on and do this video that

993
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: was going to be a big cathartic like they were

994
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: going to act out their private dramas on the screen.

995
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: And I hope that that kind of helped, but yeah,

996
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: we'll get more into that later. But it did not.

997
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: It did not. They haven't made an album in ten years.

998
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 1: But Gwen, to her credit, went out of the way

999
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: in various interviews to defend him. Um, she said, everybody's like, God,

1000
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: that guy is a jerk, which is not fair because

1001
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: he didn't have his lyrics to talk about me when

1002
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: I smothered him, and he didn't have a life. It

1003
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 1: must be hard for him to take when people write,

1004
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: how could you leave Gwen? She's so great? But they

1005
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: don't know me. They don't see my faults. They just

1006
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,479
Speaker 1: see me however they want to see me. They think

1007
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: I have abs and I don't. I have fat. Her

1008
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: self deprecation seems really authentic, and it makes me love her,

1009
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 1: but it also makes me really sad. There's a great

1010
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: part in the Spin piece when she says, quote, I

1011
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: want to have a time when I don't need a boyfriend,

1012
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 1: but it's just natural wants someone. There's nothing better than that.

1013
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: And then after a brief pause, she leans forward and

1014
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: whispers to the journalists, so what did Tony say about me? Yeah?

1015
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 1: I mean, what what was she like? Twenty five? Yeah? Boy?

1016
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 1: And she was still living at home with her dad.

1017
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: There's like a touch on this later, like she was saying, like, yeah,

1018
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: I kind of want to move to l a someday

1019
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: if my dad will let me. Like they were very

1020
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: young chronologically, but also that mentally is not the way

1021
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: I want to phrase that, but you know what I mean,

1022
00:56:55,320 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: very inexperienced, i'd say, outside of musical stuff, but I

1023
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 1: really underappreciated. Track on Tragic Kingdom is Sunday Morning, which

1024
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: sort of blends the sarcasm of just a Girl, which

1025
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: we'll talk about in a minute, with the venom of

1026
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: Happy Now and clearly has directed at Tony. Gwen sings sappy,

1027
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: pathetic little me. That was the girl I used to be.

1028
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: You had me on my knees. I trade you places

1029
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: any day, And according to Tony, he wrote the music

1030
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: to the song to serenade Gwen when she was sick

1031
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: in the bathroom. Ah. He told complex, Gwen wasn't feeling well,

1032
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: and I was at my parents house and your Belinda

1033
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: and I had the guitar. She was sitting in the

1034
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: bathroom and I was just sitting outside the bathroom, singing,

1035
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: kind of serenading her. I was just singing like somebody's

1036
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:46,439
Speaker 1: feeling quite uuh, somebody's feeling quite ill. And that became

1037
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 1: Sunday Morning. That's how the song started. But obviously it's

1038
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: not about someone feeling ill now Gwen wrote the lyrics.

1039
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: I find the slightly ungallant snapshot of the song's genesis

1040
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: as maybe revenge from these pointed lyrics. Yeah, my girlfriend

1041
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,919
Speaker 1: had diarrhea, was sitting on the toilet, so I sat

1042
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: outside of the guitar and and then she took that

1043
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: piece of music I wrote to make her feel better

1044
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: and put me in lyrics about me in there. Yeah.

1045
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: Oh well, let's go on to happier, happier topics. Now,

1046
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: let's have a little friendly chin wag about the best

1047
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: songs called Sunday Morning, because there are many, run them down.

1048
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: It was one of my favorites by Margot Grayan Sunday

1049
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: Morning from Take a Picture. I think the album is

1050
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: called right like obscure late sixties pop singer. Uh. Sunday

1051
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: Morning by the Velvet Underground of course probably my favorite. Yeah, yeah,

1052
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: Sunday Morning by Madness, I mean, of course he's Madness

1053
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: super fans have a song named you know, the share

1054
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: name of the Madness song. Easy like a Sunday Morning.

1055
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: You count that Commodore's that might be my favorite. On

1056
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: here Sunday Morning by Maroon five, I secretly liked that

1057
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: song no comment, okay one Sunday Morning by Wilco. We'll

1058
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: count that, even though it's not technically Sunday Morning and

1059
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: Matthew sweet of ming t with Austin Powers and uh,

1060
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: Susannah Hoffs and others Sunday Morning too. Yeah you are.

1061
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: This is my gotcha journalism moment, Sunday Morning coming Down,

1062
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: you rube. Chris Christofferson song, Uh, you know what. I

1063
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: had that on there and then I took it off

1064
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: because I thought that it's titled deviated too far from

1065
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: Sunday Morning. It's all right, but no, but that doesn't

1066
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: But then that doesn't give us the that doesn't give

1067
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: us the opportunity to tell people the story behind Sunday

1068
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: Morning Coming Down, with Chris Christofferson being so desperate to

1069
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: get his demos into the hands of Johnny Cash that

1070
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: he commandeered an Army Reserve helicopter fluid onto cash His

1071
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: front lawn and strolled up to the front door to

1072
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: give him the demo tape. Chris christ like walk out

1073
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: with a gun just because he was like, what's going on?

1074
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean probably I mean his waking hours. Yeah, we're

1075
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: being invaded by Christmas toppers. As you meditate on that,

1076
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more too much information after

1077
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: these messages. All right. Spider Webbs, Yes, spider Webs maybe

1078
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: my favorite song on this album. Uh. It's the song

1079
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: that at least half a dozen people I knew used

1080
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: as their voicemail greeting back in the day because of

1081
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: the you know, I'm walking into spider webs, so leave

1082
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: a message and I'll call you back refrain at the end.

1083
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: Did you have people who did that? No? Okay? And

1084
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: there in lies the difference between our high school experiences. Uh.

1085
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: This song is basically Destiny's Child's bugaboo before cell phones,

1086
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: where I think it's inspired by a guy who had

1087
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: gotten wind of Gwen's breakup with Tony and launched an

1088
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: ardent phone campaign to convince her to go out with him.

1089
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: Never Good. Gwen talked about this in a video of

1090
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: the group made in two thousand nine about some of

1091
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: their past songs. She said, I always had a boyfriend,

1092
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: so I never had to deal with guys trying to

1093
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: go out with me. But there was this one guy,

1094
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: and he used to call me in the middle of

1095
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: the night and trying to sing me poetry on the

1096
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: phone or play acoustic guitar fifteen minutes at a time.

1097
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to get off the phone. Giving

1098
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: this guy my number was the biggest regret of my life.

1099
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: So she wrote the song with Tony, who is thrilled

1100
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: to note that it's one of the few songs on

1101
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: the record that isn't about him, and in fact, he

1102
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: and Gwen are the only two people who know who

1103
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: the song's actually about, and they've been very reluctant to

1104
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: share because it's kind of a mean song. She says

1105
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 1: in the same video, it's such a mean song, to

1106
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: which Tony adds, not as mean as Happy Now, which

1107
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: is about him. It's fair. Uh. Spider Webs also cements

1108
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 1: her ties to another new wave of pop group fronted

1109
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: by a platinum bombshell Blondie. Debbie Harry sang about a

1110
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: stalker on one way or another, but it was actually

1111
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: another of their songs that inspired Spiderwebs, at least from

1112
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: a musical standpoint. According to Tony Canal, he and Gwen

1113
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 1: try to do something like Blondie's cover of The Tide

1114
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 1: Is High, where they use different tempos, going from the

1115
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 1: intro to the main part of the song. So that's

1116
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 1: a musical inspiration from Blondie there. Well, now we arrive

1117
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: at the other standout track on Tragic Kingdom, which is

1118
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: just a Girl, the song that really you know, as

1119
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier to this and Don't Speak um us

1120
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: when they played on their first TV appearance when they

1121
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: were on Conan and uh, the song that cracked the

1122
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: kingmakers of l a radio Ka Rock which again for

1123
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: the third time this podcast had told them it would

1124
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: take an act of God to get them on the radio. UM.

1125
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: And you know the again the milieu at this time

1126
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: and stuff like bad Religion, Rage against the Machine, Nirvana,

1127
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 1: Pearl Jams, sound Garden. So what a breath of fresh

1128
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 1: air to have Gwen Stefani's voice come on over the radio.

1129
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: UM and Kay Rock had actually begun to receive complaints

1130
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: about just how few women they played, and you know,

1131
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 1: talk about the diametrically opposed ideal to grunge. Is just

1132
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: a girl. Um. But you know, their parents figure very

1133
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: highly into this song. We'll talk about in second how

1134
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: her dad inspired it, but her mom took issue with it,

1135
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 1: specifically uh, the swears um they were going to they

1136
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: were driving in California when the song became a hit,

1137
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: and her mom said, are you going to say those

1138
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: curse words on stage? Because she had invited some of

1139
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: her relatives to the show. But Gwen told her mom

1140
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: that she wasn't planning on swearing. But the frustration grew

1141
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: inside of her and she drew a line in the sand.

1142
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 1: She said, no, I'm not going to change my lyrics.

1143
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: My lyrics are my children? Who said that? Isn't that

1144
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 1: from Spino tap whatever? Uh? And her mom didn't talk

1145
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: to you for a week. Ouch. But the song originally

1146
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: came of her frustration that when she was dating Tony,

1147
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: her dad at one point scolded her for staying out

1148
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 1: too late and then she drove home alone, which he

1149
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 1: thought was I guess dangerous in in the main streets

1150
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: of Orange County, and she felt that he was being

1151
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 1: overprotective because she was, in her words, just a girl.

1152
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: Uh and those uh, you know the lyrics, I'm just

1153
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: a girl, all pretty and petite, so don't let me

1154
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: have any rights Before that tremendous hook, I've had it

1155
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 1: up to hear. Her vocal performance on that song is

1156
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: really great. She has that she does that kind of

1157
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 1: a pout thing she leans into. Um, you've compared it

1158
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: to Leslie Gore's you Don't Own Me? Are Dion Warwicks

1159
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 1: Don't make Me over? Gwen later said I wouldn't trade

1160
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: being female for anything, but guys don't understand what a

1161
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: burden it can be sometimes, you know. And yeah, and

1162
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: it's it is kind of a companion piece to Spider Webs,

1163
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: which is about her literally being harassed by a guy

1164
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: on the phone at all hours of the night. I

1165
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: remember getting reading our school had like the Disney magazine

1166
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: Disney Adventures, and like I remember reading in that about

1167
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: like Gwen was like the female rocker that it was

1168
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: cool to look up to. And they made such a

1169
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,959
Speaker 1: big deal about her doing push ups on stage and

1170
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: having great abs, which was yeah, but I mean, you

1171
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: know she yeah exactly, but she did break her foot

1172
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: at one point on stage. You know, God love her. Uh.

1173
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 1: Writing in Pitchfork a few years back, Jillian Mapes said

1174
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 1: of just a Girl, that is not a subtle song,

1175
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: but what it's doing is quietly masterful. The sarcasm subverts

1176
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: the underlying victimhood in a sneering way, but victimhood is

1177
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: also something girls, particularly white or privileged girls quickly understand

1178
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: as a tool forgetting what they want. Still, though, there's

1179
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: always somebody out there who's going to miss the message.

1180
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,959
Speaker 1: And uh, Spin asked her about this, and she said,

1181
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: I hate it when I'm asked what that song is about.

1182
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: The lyrics are so obvious. If you don't think it's sarcastic,

1183
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: you've got to be like an idiot music journalists. But

1184
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: the song actually uh prestages, prestages, prefigures, pre something's uh

1185
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: spice girls girl power, um, at least in the state.

1186
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: It's yeah, that's true, Mike dot Com. Tom Barnes, writing

1187
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: over there has says just a Girl helped amplify the

1188
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: message of the Riot Girl movement, who, according to their manifesto,

1189
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: fought for the psychic and cultural lives of girls and

1190
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: women everywhere, you know. And it's kind of that bit

1191
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: of like putting a little sugar into your message to

1192
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: help it get over into the mainstream. Because Bikini kille

1193
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: Brat Bill Havings to Betsy L seven that was not

1194
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: exactly radio friendly sounds, but no doubt, you know, got

1195
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: the message across by being super super catchy, made it

1196
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: onto MTV, you know, and That's the thing about SKA

1197
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: is it's not threatening. You can parents can be like,

1198
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: this is fun. I'll take my kids to that. Um

1199
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: just a girl, of course, got sinks in Clueless Romy

1200
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 1: and Michelle's High School Reunion, both of which are you

1201
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: know now if not at the time, looked upon his

1202
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:15,439
Speaker 1: groundbreaking works of feminist cinema, which do Clueless soon yeah

1203
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: probably um yeah, And you know here we are straight

1204
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 1: white manning our way through a piece on Gwen Stefani.

1205
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 1: So we'll go back to Jillian Mapes at Pitchfork quote.

1206
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: Following the surge of third wave feminism in the early nineties,

1207
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 1: the mid nineties became the peak of the angry white

1208
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,439
Speaker 1: female era in rock and pop. It was a time

1209
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: when feminized aggression from Whole and Riot Girl to Liz

1210
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: Fair and Landis Morrisset was suddenly perceived as being on trend,

1211
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: as if women haven't been furious forever. Stefani girly tomboy

1212
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: ultra arguably benefited from this kind of branding, even while

1213
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 1: she maintained the fun, energetic personality that led Courtney Love

1214
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 1: to dub her a cheerleader and others to call her

1215
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 1: the anti Courtney Love. Um, who hasn't Courtney Love offended

1216
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: at this point the rest of her bandmates, all of

1217
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 1: every single peer from the era. Yeah, she told Anyway.

1218
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: The quote that that this is referencing is Courtney Love

1219
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 1: told seventeen she quote wasn't interested in being the cheerleader.

1220
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in being Gwen Stefani. But you know,

1221
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: Gwen got her back a few years later with the

1222
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: massive hit in Hollowback Girl, which has the cheerleader chant

1223
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: and the costume in the video. Yeah, and Gwen, you know,

1224
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: she has a sense of self awareness about this. I mean,

1225
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 1: she said at the time, maybe I should be more

1226
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: of a tough chick, but I'm not. That's not me.

1227
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: I love makeup, I love getting my hair done, I

1228
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: love pedicures. I'm the furthest thing from a rock chick.

1229
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: She talked about going to not very Farm to see

1230
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: the ice capades. Um. Yeah, like that sounds of music. Yeah. Yeah.

1231
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: According to again that Chris Heath the Story and Rolling Stone,

1232
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: she was so nerve nervous about her about spelling things

1233
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,799
Speaker 1: that she carried a spell check computer in her bag,

1234
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 1: which which is the least punk thing I've ever heard. Yeah,

1235
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: but you know, girls at this time, being able to

1236
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: see all versions of themselves represented is very important, uh.

1237
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: Atlanta Kaplan, writing in The Guardian back for Misunderstood teenage

1238
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 1: girls everywhere, Stefani stood out as a central voice for

1239
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: the misfits. She was never quite Atlantis or Spice Girl.

1240
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: She was a tomboy who wasn't afraid to speak up

1241
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,799
Speaker 1: for anyone who is in between. She was the pretty

1242
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: creative arts and girl in high school that wasn't afraid

1243
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: to stick up for herself or you. She was a

1244
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: punk in plaid who served as just one of the guys.

1245
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 1: Stefani was one of the women that you looked up

1246
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: to for her incredible vocals and I don't give a

1247
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 1: damned sentiment. She didn't care what you thought of her,

1248
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: but she did care about her feelings and making sure

1249
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,600
Speaker 1: you knew what they were. And her fans called themselves

1250
01:09:54,920 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: Gwenna Bey's. Did they journalists called their fans that Gwennabe's Guanabe's.

1251
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 1: There's something about something about that that doesn't land ironic though,

1252
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: coming just in advance of Spice Girls with Wannabe Ye

1253
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 1: go yeah. Speaking of Nottsbury Farm, no doubts breakthrough record

1254
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 1: took its name from Nottsbury's rival Disneyland, and it's both

1255
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 1: an ode to the band's hometown and a nod to

1256
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,679
Speaker 1: how Disneyland subtly creeped its way into the band's writing sessions.

1257
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: The Stefani's were from Annaheim, and as we said earlier,

1258
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: the band house on Beacon Avenue was just down the

1259
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 1: road from the Magic Kingdom, and guitarist Tom Dumont later

1260
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 1: said every night we could hear and see the fireworks

1261
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: show from Disneyland. At night you could hear the YETI

1262
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 1: from inside the Matterhorn ride growl every sixty seconds, which

1263
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,640
Speaker 1: sounds like hell, and Dumont says that he had a

1264
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: teacher in middle school who used to refer to Disneyland

1265
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: as the Tragic Kingdom, and that helped inspire the title track,

1266
01:10:55,840 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: which even sabled some theme park announcements, which I'm shock

1267
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: that Disney were cool with that. Uh. There seemed to

1268
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 1: be many rumors and theories about the meaning of the song,

1269
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: including one from Pitchport claiming that the track is about

1270
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:12,879
Speaker 1: Walt Disney being evil. Whatever the case, they were apparently

1271
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,759
Speaker 1: no hard feelings with Disney, because when Gwen was presented

1272
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 1: with the key to the city of Annaheim in two

1273
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 1: thousand two. The ceremony was held at Disneyland, and this

1274
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 1: brings us to the cover of the album, another tribute

1275
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:31,679
Speaker 1: to their hometown from Orange County, Orange, yet not exactly subtle.

1276
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 1: The band minus Gwen stands in an Orange grove. Well,

1277
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 1: Gwen stands like a nineties Virgus girl in a retro

1278
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 1: red dress. Eagle Lite fans will notice that there's an

1279
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: extra band member in the background. Gwen apparently insisted that

1280
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 1: Eric Stefani sit in for the cover shoot, and this

1281
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 1: was despite the fact that he had not technically been

1282
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: a member of the band for months, maybe been a

1283
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:54,720
Speaker 1: year or two at this point, but she felt that

1284
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: he played a big enough role on the album with

1285
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,640
Speaker 1: the inclusion of two of his songs, Plus he contributed

1286
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 1: to own Speak in Different People on Sunday Morning and

1287
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 1: ended on this so she felt like he deserved to

1288
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 1: be on the cover, especially if in addition to the

1289
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: eight plus years he'd spent fronting the band before that.

1290
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 1: But the decision to include Eric made things a little

1291
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: awkward during the shoot. If you look at the sleeve booklet,

1292
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 1: Eric is always standing at the back or at the side,

1293
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: and he's usually looking away. I guess he felt weird

1294
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: being back. I guess the other band members felt weird

1295
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 1: that he was back. She would later say, it was

1296
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,600
Speaker 1: very weird. It was horrible. So that's sad, but you know,

1297
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: it's even more horrible. The red dress that she wore

1298
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 1: on the cover got stolen. It was loaned to the

1299
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: Hard Rock Cafe and later displayed at the Fortune Museum

1300
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 1: Center in an exhibit called the Orange Groove Orange Counties

1301
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: rock and Roll History. But then in January five, this

1302
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: dress was stolen, This priceless bit of rock and roll

1303
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:56,680
Speaker 1: memorabilia taken from under their noses. Can you believe it?

1304
01:12:57,040 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 1: Someone finally listened to me and put it in a

1305
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 1: museum where it belonged, and then this happened. I can't

1306
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: believe it. Jesus Christ. Despite the desperate please for its return,

1307
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: the dress, which had been a praise around five thousand

1308
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: dollars at the time, has still not been recovered. Wow.

1309
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: What else did they take? I don't know. I'm almost

1310
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 1: guessing just that. Yeah, like a targeted theft. Mm hmmm.

1311
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 1: It is believed the dress was stolen between two thirty

1312
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:29,799
Speaker 1: and three thirty pm on a Tuesday. What was happening

1313
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 1: to that museum during that time? I'm just imagining a

1314
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: security guard like they're like smashing the class to get

1315
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: through it anyway. You know what I just read? It

1316
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 1: is kind of funny on on spiderwebs. You know the

1317
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 1: steel drums. You know who plays those, Stephen Perkins from

1318
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 1: Jane's Addiction, who famously plays steel drums on Jane says,

1319
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 1: So if you needed yet another vision of the Caribbean

1320
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: has filtered through a white guy from California. Hard to

1321
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 1: it more illustrative than a bunch of ska dorks from

1322
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 1: Anaheim with a white guy playing steel drums on the

1323
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: track one of their breakthrough record, Little on the Nose,

1324
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 1: their World So Tragic Kingdom, released on October. I'm just

1325
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 1: gonna quote you here exploded onto the music scene like

1326
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 1: rays of Sun after a cold Seattle rainstorm. Yes, that

1327
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: was a grunge similar there, much like southern California's different

1328
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: than Seattle. Okay, Like this was like nine thousand words

1329
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: at this point, Come on, was tired. We've said many

1330
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 1: times though that this was shot in the arm. Following

1331
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 1: um the dour stretch of flannel clad missing thropes lurching

1332
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 1: their way through drop tuned dirges about depression and heroin

1333
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 1: and I don't know lumber that's yours. But it has

1334
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 1: been credited with hoping to break ska in the mainstream,

1335
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 1: opening a lane a lane for bands like Real Big Fish,

1336
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 1: gold Finger and the Mighty Mighty bo Stones. Some have

1337
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: debated whether the rise of No Doubt as a cause

1338
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,639
Speaker 1: or symptom of the nineties ska boom. There's a tremendous

1339
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 1: anecdote about this from Tom Dumont. One of his hands

1340
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: was injured when someone asked him for an autograph, and

1341
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: he said, quote, when they realized I wasn't in three eleven,

1342
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: they grabbed the pen back and cut my hand. Yeah.

1343
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 1: I can't imagine loving anything enough to attack a musician's hand,

1344
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: much less three eleven anyway, Tragic Kingdom sold sixteen million copies,

1345
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:36,680
Speaker 1: reached number one on the Billboard two hundred over a

1346
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:40,560
Speaker 1: year afterwards released So Something of a slow burn, Um

1347
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 1: and uh again. Tom Dumont. For years where they were

1348
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 1: just struggling, he claimed that he would only get a

1349
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: tattoo if they ever sold millions of records, and then

1350
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 1: subsequently chickened out. Um. Weirdly enough, only one of the singles,

1351
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: just a Girl, cracked the Hot one hundred, but the

1352
01:15:57,320 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: rest were not released as proper singles, so it's kind

1353
01:15:59,920 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 1: of a technicality there. I don't know if it's just

1354
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: a ploy to get people to buy the rest of

1355
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,680
Speaker 1: the album, but that was the only song that was

1356
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: released as a single, Just the Girl, That's So Wild

1357
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,680
Speaker 1: to Me. Grammy nominations for Best Rock Album, Best New

1358
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 1: Artist Song of the Year, Best Pop Performance lost all

1359
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:17,439
Speaker 1: of them. They did, however, get Best Group Video for

1360
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 1: Don't Speak at the v M A s uh. Their tour.

1361
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: We talked about that tour. Oh sometimes on that incredible

1362
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: tour they opened for Bush Wow. I wonder if Gwen

1363
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 1: regrets that getting to know Gavin Rossdale better. Didn't he cheat?

1364
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: He cheated on her like seventeen thousand times right that.

1365
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, you think either of us

1366
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 1: would know that from our COO cool page six background,

1367
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: But I actually yeah, it was his Uh it was

1368
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 1: he cheated on her with a nanny. Oh hey, that's

1369
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: what a loser. Um. British rock magazine Kerrang was one

1370
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: of the dissenting notes during this world conquering I just

1371
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: read ahead during this world conquering era, writing in a

1372
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 1: tremendous pan. Mere words cannot describe how abysmally gutless and

1373
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 1: sugar smothered. It is much like an ant eater with

1374
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 1: a punctured snout, no doubt, suck badly. One of the

1375
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 1: best pans. Incredible. Tony Kunaut wanted to make it into

1376
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: a band T shirt. That's primus this thing there, all

1377
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:31,640
Speaker 1: their their shirts say Primus sucks. Um accurate. Uh, this

1378
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 1: is cute. After Tragic Kingdom was a smash, Gowen still

1379
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: lobbied that Eric come back and be involved in their

1380
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 1: follow up, which took five years to make. Returned to

1381
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 1: Saturn came out in two thousand. Um. She was saying

1382
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 1: Eric is no doubt, and again to illustrate the point

1383
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: in the Rolling Stone profile, she pointed to some steamed

1384
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,840
Speaker 1: vegetables on a dinner tray, saying these are really good.

1385
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:54,679
Speaker 1: But if I can put a little butter and salt

1386
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 1: and pepper on that, it would be great. And that's

1387
01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 1: what Eric is. Sure. Uh he has a co write

1388
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 1: on one track on Return to Saturn, but other than

1389
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: that does not seem to have been involved, although Jerry

1390
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: Harrison of the Talking Heads was producing the track. New

1391
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:16,559
Speaker 1: Jerry Harrison probably the third fourth most famous member of

1392
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 1: Talking Heads, Jerry Harrison folks from the Alright Jordan bring

1393
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:30,639
Speaker 1: us Home? Tell us about the music videos from Tragic Kingdom. Yes,

1394
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 1: we can't end this episode without touching on the iconic

1395
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 1: music videos. As we mentioned, the video for Just the

1396
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: Girl opens in the house that the band shared down

1397
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 1: the street from Disneyland, before moving on to the split

1398
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:45,959
Speaker 1: bathroom scenes. The boys are in dingy CBGBs like Squalor,

1399
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 1: and Gwen is in a palatial ladies room. Just a Girl,

1400
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 1: get it? I guess I really get there. She purchased

1401
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 1: the red, white and blue tennis top that she wears

1402
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 1: at a thrift shop just before filming, and she added

1403
01:18:57,479 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: the fake diamonds to it herself, which kind of say

1404
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: most for future interest in fashion to science. But anyway,

1405
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 1: in the background of just a Girl video, you'll notice

1406
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 1: a very pregnant woman that is Gwen's younger sister, Chill.

1407
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 1: But there's a little bit of drama, I guess mild

1408
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 1: on the no doubt scale of drama that stemmed from

1409
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: the Just a Girls shoot. Drummer Adrian Young, he who

1410
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: undresses all the time, apparently saw an extra on the

1411
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,799
Speaker 1: set who sculpted his hair into devil horns very nineties.

1412
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:29,759
Speaker 1: Adrian liked this look and adopted it for himself. Then

1413
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 1: he got an irate letter from this horned extra who

1414
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 1: accused him of being a fraud. I guess you don't

1415
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 1: if a guy voluntarily walks around with devil horns, you

1416
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 1: probably don't want to piss this guy off. Yeah, and

1417
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: you really don't want him to have your contact information.

1418
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:48,679
Speaker 1: So yeah, this is from the Chris Heath Rolling Stone

1419
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 1: cover story. He said that this letter said, you claim

1420
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 1: to be part of the dark side when you're just

1421
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 1: a big fake. You're just a big rock star. If

1422
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: you have any integrity, flaugh, you would write read back

1423
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: counterpoint did he did he claim to be part of

1424
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:06,639
Speaker 1: the dark side? Oh? I mean this guy is giving

1425
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: me Uni bombers anyway, So uh so, Yeah, Adrian ended

1426
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 1: up shaving the devil horns off because he didn't want

1427
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 1: to deal with this guy anymore, accusing of stealing his look.

1428
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: Don't speak, Moving on to don't Speak, Yes, don't speak.

1429
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 1: The drama there was a little more overt as the

1430
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 1: band took off, the other guys in the group who

1431
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 1: weren't Gwen Stefani had to contend with the fact that

1432
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 1: they had a ridiculously good looking, energetic, charismatic frontwoman, who

1433
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: it must be noted, wrote much of her own lyrics,

1434
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,680
Speaker 1: so she was gonna get the lion's share of the attention.

1435
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 1: I mean, you see it on the cover of the album.

1436
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:43,400
Speaker 1: It's the almost famous thing. Look, I'm just one of

1437
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 1: the out of focus guys in the back, so I

1438
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 1: don't really know what they're expecting. But it got awkward.

1439
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,320
Speaker 1: There would be magazine photo shoots with the whole band,

1440
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 1: and then the editor would crop the rest of the

1441
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,680
Speaker 1: group out. Journalists would talk to the whole band and

1442
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: then just print. Mcwen says there was a famous incident

1443
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 1: with Spin for the band was supposed to be on

1444
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: the cover for their November issue, but ultimately they just

1445
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,760
Speaker 1: went with Gwen under the headline Riot Gurley, no doubt,

1446
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 1: just want to have fun. And we touched on earlier

1447
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 1: and there was an incident in London where Gwen lost

1448
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:16,439
Speaker 1: her voice and management grumbling about how no one was

1449
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 1: going to be happy if Gwen didn't show up. The

1450
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 1: do press, and guitarist Tom Dumont screams, hasn't got to

1451
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:23,960
Speaker 1: the point where we mean nothing, yes or no. If

1452
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 1: Gwen doesn't speak, do we mean nothing? And when he

1453
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 1: calmed down, he elaborated to the journalist, I understand intellectually,

1454
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 1: but I just feel like I'm second class compared to her.

1455
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 1: I feel I'm just a lesser person. I don't look

1456
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 1: as good. I'm not as bitching as she is in

1457
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 1: everyone else's eyes. The reason I wanted to be a

1458
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:41,760
Speaker 1: rock star when I was a kid, I thought that

1459
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:43,840
Speaker 1: it would be a way for people to like me.

1460
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 1: And now that I got here, I'm not getting that

1461
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 1: payoff that I was always expecting. Very honest, Yeah, well right,

1462
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 1: well yeah. And Tony Canal, who probably has even more

1463
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 1: complicated feeling has given us past relationship with Gwen, had

1464
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 1: more to say about her getting the stars treatment. He said,

1465
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 1: we want people to know that we're a band. For

1466
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 1: many years, we talked about what would happen if we

1467
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:10,839
Speaker 1: ever got offered this sort of stuff. We're gonna stick together,

1468
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 1: We're not gonna do it. We're gonna say it's the

1469
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 1: whole band or nothing. But when you're actually putting that situation,

1470
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 1: and you see that your friend has the opportunity, maybe

1471
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 1: the once in a lifetime opportunity, to be on the

1472
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: cover of a magazine. Why would you hold someone back

1473
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:26,760
Speaker 1: from that? So it was rough for them, but rather

1474
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,600
Speaker 1: than let the spite and bile fester, they took the

1475
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 1: brave approach of confronting all this drama head on in

1476
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 1: their video for Don't Speak, and they kind of acted

1477
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 1: out the whole photographer singles out Gwen's psycho dramas the

1478
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 1: plot line for this video by Sophie Mueller, And though

1479
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 1: the song was obstensibly about Gwen's split with Tony, the

1480
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: video was kind of about Gwen's split with the band,

1481
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 1: and the boys all give Gwen dirty looks, as you

1482
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,439
Speaker 1: noted earlier, and they seemed to be kind of upset

1483
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 1: throughout the whole video, and Tony commented, we didn't want

1484
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 1: it to be about a normal breakup, so we thought

1485
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 1: what would be the saddest thing that could happen the

1486
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 1: band splitting up. So that's what the video is about.

1487
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:07,479
Speaker 1: And ironically, the night before the video shoot, two members

1488
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 1: Tom and Gwen came close to walking out of the group.

1489
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:12,639
Speaker 1: The band claims that they were trying to get Gwen

1490
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 1: to take some time off after her voice kept giving out,

1491
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 1: but she responded with an angry variation of I'm going

1492
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 1: to do whatever I want and if you don't like it, quit.

1493
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 1: She claims that she was tired of everyone constantly talking

1494
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:25,639
Speaker 1: about how it was always her face and the cover

1495
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:27,680
Speaker 1: of magazines and just didn't want to deal with it

1496
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:30,680
Speaker 1: anymore and kind of issued an ultimatum that you know

1497
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 1: that this is how it's going to be, and I'm

1498
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 1: not even gonna speculate on that anyway, but whatever the

1499
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,200
Speaker 1: case of the Don't Speak video recording, Eve fight, they

1500
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:42,479
Speaker 1: hashed it all out and the video proved to be

1501
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 1: a Catharsis That allowed them to make another album, two

1502
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 1: thousand's Adult New Wavy Return of Saturn and let's not

1503
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 1: forget two thousand ones rock Steady. The following year, it

1504
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 1: was just Hones by the Neptunes, sly On, Robbie William,

1505
01:23:55,400 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 1: Orbit Prince and Rick o'kasik. That's a hell of a

1506
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 1: lineup and only one year after the previous album Damn.

1507
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 1: And then came Gwen's duets with Moby and Eve. I

1508
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 1: Love that Movie song, That movie song, which is a

1509
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 1: great song, the Hirajuku Street Style, which you mentioned the

1510
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:16,960
Speaker 1: top of the episode of the solo albums, But this

1511
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 1: is all another story. No Doubt have released only one

1512
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:24,160
Speaker 1: album in the last twenty years, two thousand twelves, decidedly lackluster,

1513
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 1: Push and Shove, and they've been on an indefinite hiatus

1514
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 1: since a brief front of festival shows, and since then,

1515
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 1: the non Gwen members of No Doubt have teamed with

1516
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 1: a f I lead singer Davey Havoc to form the

1517
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 1: new wave supergroup their words Dream call on them. Then

1518
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:45,680
Speaker 1: there seems to be a bit of sadness there with

1519
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 1: the rest of the No Doubt crew who aren't Gwen.

1520
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 1: In Guitarist Tom Dumont that quote machine of a Man,

1521
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 1: shared a photo of the Instagram in honor of the

1522
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:58,559
Speaker 1: album Tragic Kingdom's twenty anniversary, and the caption read in part,

1523
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 1: I can't believe it's been five years. In some ways,

1524
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 1: it feels like yesterday. In some ways, it feels like

1525
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 1: a distant dream. Sometimes great things fall apart, which is

1526
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:10,320
Speaker 1: a shame. Yet here we are, twenty five years later.

1527
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:12,640
Speaker 1: It is what it is, and I keep trying to

1528
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 1: make peace with that. I'm especially grateful to all those

1529
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 1: who have helped us along the way, and most of

1530
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 1: all of those of you who enjoyed Tragic Kingdom and

1531
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: came out for the shows over the years. I love

1532
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 1: to do one more No Doubt tour, but it feels

1533
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:27,759
Speaker 1: like that ain't gonna happen. It's bittersweet in any case,

1534
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 1: what great memories. Thanks Aul. That's a bummer, I know,

1535
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 1: especially with whatever man just her becoming a reality TV

1536
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 1: star and dating sentient slab of ham. We are in

1537
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 1: a post music society. We do music just to get

1538
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:53,679
Speaker 1: the better brand endorsements and reality TV gigs. Katy Perry yeah, Rihanna,

1539
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 1: Oh that's so grim. Anyway, I never thought i'd end

1540
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:02,120
Speaker 1: this feeling sorry for No Doubt. Guitarist Tom mom see,

1541
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 1: I told you there would be an art and arc.

1542
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:09,040
Speaker 1: Both Gwen and Tony have talked about the heartbreak in

1543
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 1: Tragic Kingdom, which is simultaneously what made it resonate with

1544
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:14,839
Speaker 1: so many but also makes it hard for them to revisit.

1545
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 1: Gwen later said, quote, the whole purpose for the Tragic

1546
01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 1: Kingdom is the breakup, the heartbreak. There's a lot of

1547
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:24,040
Speaker 1: feelings when you say the words tragic Kingdom. My heart

1548
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 1: still kind of is broken because those songs were about

1549
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 1: a really sad time for me. However, I would like

1550
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 1: to try to end this slightly more upbeat note. There's

1551
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 1: a song included on Gwen's two four solo album Love

1552
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:40,879
Speaker 1: Angel Music Baby, and it's one that to me, closes

1553
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 1: the book on this whole Tragic Kingdom chapter. I'm referring to,

1554
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 1: of course, the song Cool, which was written as an

1555
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 1: affectionate tribute to Tony and the friendship they maintained, or

1556
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 1: at least they maintained as of two thousand four. The

1557
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 1: words include we used to think it was impossible. Now

1558
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:01,360
Speaker 1: you call me by my new last name. Remember Harvard Boulevard,

1559
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: the dreaming days where the mess was made. Look how

1560
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:08,000
Speaker 1: all the kids have grown. We've changed, but we're still

1561
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:11,600
Speaker 1: the same after all that we've been through. I know

1562
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 1: we're cool. May we all be so cool with our exes? Well,

1563
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 1: folks were off into our own tragic kingdom and U.

1564
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 1: I have not come around on SKA, but I have

1565
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 1: perhaps come around on on the Saga of No Doubt,

1566
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: at least as a hero's journey. I told you it'll

1567
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 1: be an interesting one. Yeah. I mean, you know, you

1568
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 1: either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself.

1569
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 1: Mary Blake Shelton. Ah, there it is, there it is.

1570
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:45,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. This has been too much information. I'm

1571
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,280
Speaker 1: Alex Heigel and I have Jordan run Talk. We'll catch

1572
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 1: you next time. I Too Much Information was a production

1573
01:27:57,360 --> 01:28:00,679
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. The show's executive producers Noel Brown

1574
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,799
Speaker 1: and Jordan run Talk. The supervising producer is Mike John's.

1575
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:06,800
Speaker 1: The show was researched, written and hosted by Jordan run

1576
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 1: Talk and Alex Heigel, with original music by Seth Applebaum

1577
01:28:10,160 --> 01:28:12,800
Speaker 1: and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard,

1578
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:15,640
Speaker 1: please subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts

1579
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 1: and I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

1580
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows