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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share, leave us a message on our hotline number

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Speaker 1: at five one three nine hundred two nine five five.

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Speaker 2: Or she had us an email at trust Me pod

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Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. Trust Me, trust trust Me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 2: I've never lived to.

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Speaker 3: You, and we never have a live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome. Welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 1: The podcast about colts, extreme belief and the abusive power

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Speaker 1: from two impure people who've actually experienced it. I Am

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Speaker 1: Impure Lola Blanc.

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Speaker 2: And I Am Impure Megan Elizabeth. And today our guests

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Speaker 2: are two callers.

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Speaker 1: We had two well we've had multiple callers, but we

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Speaker 1: got we guys, you guys.

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Speaker 2: We have a hotline for those.

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Speaker 1: Of you who don't know the numbers five one three

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Speaker 1: nine hundred two nine five five. So this week what

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Speaker 1: we decided to do was take a couple of those

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Speaker 1: voicemails from some interesting callers and give them a call

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Speaker 1: and get to know some.

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Speaker 2: Of y'all's stories.

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Speaker 1: Our guests today are Emily from Houston. She is a

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Speaker 1: musician and she is going to talk to us about

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Speaker 1: her culty childhood with her narcissist dad. She's very interested

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Speaker 1: in the theme of cult of one, so we're going

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Speaker 1: to discuss that.

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Speaker 2: And then also Holly and West Virginia. She grew up fundamentalist.

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Speaker 2: She's a bus kid baptist. A bus kid baptist is

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Speaker 2: a fun phrase, it really is. And she talks a

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Speaker 2: lot about purity culture and all of the interesting things

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Speaker 2: that can happen to one in such.

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Speaker 1: A world, as well as dating a pair of brothers

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Speaker 1: in a very small town.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what went wrong with that? You know, stuff happens.

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Speaker 1: So before we get into that, and by the way,

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Speaker 1: y'all should all call us because this is fun. It's

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Speaker 1: fun to call our listeners and like get to hear

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Speaker 1: some of their own experience.

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Speaker 2: So it was really emotional. Yeah, I love it. Before

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Speaker 2: we talk to Emily and Holly, Emily, Emily and Holly, Megan,

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Speaker 2: would you like to tell me the cultiest thing that

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Speaker 2: happened this week? Yeah, I mean, basically, I think instead

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Speaker 2: I'd rather tell you a story. Okay, tell me a story,

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Speaker 2: all right? So this this was reminiscent of something that

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Speaker 2: Holly talks about later, which was just got me thinking

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Speaker 2: about how weird it is that, like, dating culture in

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Speaker 2: Christianity is fucking bizarre. You are, I'll speak from how

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Speaker 2: I grew up. You are supposed to marry somebody in

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Speaker 2: your religion, and eighteen is a perfectly acceptable time to

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Speaker 2: be married by. I know a girl who walked across

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Speaker 2: her high school graduation with a new last name because

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Speaker 2: she'd already gotten married. Oh my gosh, of course divorce

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Speaker 2: two years later, and everyone, you're a sinner. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, what the she was in high school? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what are we talking about? Yeah? Okay, so this is

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Speaker 2: the culture in the world that you're just you were

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Speaker 2: walks big and Mormonism we're always supposed to go on

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Speaker 2: walks with guys walk Yeah okay. I mean maybe no

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Speaker 2: one was asking me on walks, but if you were asked,

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Speaker 2: you should go okay, okay. So basically I blossomed into

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Speaker 2: a normal human being, not the weirdo I was when

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Speaker 2: I was younger, still kind of somebody somebody would date, possibly,

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Speaker 2: So my mom got the bright idea to invite the

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Speaker 2: hottest guy in our religion, which there were like three

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Speaker 2: there were three down for dinner, okay, okay, and he

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Speaker 2: is like corny Abercrombie and Fitch, like just not my style. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just like like a basic bitch, yeah brand new BMW yes,

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Speaker 2: oh god, basic, basic, basic bitch. So my mom has

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Speaker 2: him over for dinner because obviously we have to fall

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Speaker 2: in love, and so he comes for dinner. It's the weirdest,

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Speaker 2: most awkward dinner of our lives. I told my sister,

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Speaker 2: what were you going to say? So it's just like

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Speaker 2: your entire family and this boy all staring at him,

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Speaker 2: and you know they know him because he's like in

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Speaker 2: the religion. Yeah, but he had to drive five hours

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Speaker 2: to come to this thing for five hours? Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: do you even know a boy loves five hours? Exactly?

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Speaker 2: Great point. Okay, So he's driven a really long ways.

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Speaker 2: I've told my sister, if you leave this dinner, I

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Speaker 2: will murder you. What does she do in the middle

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Speaker 2: of it? She gets up and she's like, I gotta go.

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Speaker 2: She gets in her car, pulls out one hundred miles

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Speaker 2: an hour straight into his BMW. Okay, so his whole

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Speaker 2: side of his car is crushed in so I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I guess I'll ride in the back because

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Speaker 2: we should go to a movie now. Because I can't

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Speaker 2: talk to you anymore. I take him to Jango Unchained.

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Speaker 2: You're allowed to go to a No, you're not, but

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Speaker 2: I was desperate. Wait Jango and Chained was like, not

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Speaker 2: that long ago, this is probably eight years ago.

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Speaker 1: Wait, so you're like, oh, you're visiting home as this

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Speaker 1: prone up? You're not a teenager grown up? Oh I see,

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Speaker 1: I thought you're a teenager.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. She also was like, you're not allowed to

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Speaker 2: watch movies. Okay. Yeah, So I'm like, let's go to

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Speaker 2: a movie. So it's just basically full frontal nudity of

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Speaker 2: a man the whole time. I'm sitting right next to him,

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Speaker 2: and I was just like, oh my god, how is

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Speaker 2: this happening. So then we get home and he's just

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Speaker 2: basically like, so, like, shall we continue this court chef? No?

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Speaker 2: And I really blocked that out of my mind, especially

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Speaker 2: since a month later he sent me a picture of

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Speaker 2: himself wearing a tool belt and nothing else. No, he

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Speaker 2: did not. He goes, do you ever need any work

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Speaker 2: done in your house in California?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: Wait, Okay, did you guys kiss or not even at all?

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Speaker 2: And he's a member of the church.

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Speaker 5: Yes.

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Speaker 2: I wanted with all of my heart to send it

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Speaker 2: to my mom. I know, I wanted to be like,

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Speaker 2: look at what a righteous young man. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Something about talking to Holly just just really brought me

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Speaker 2: back to like, why the fuck are we forced to

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Speaker 2: date these guys just because they're in the same thing

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Speaker 2: as you and they're so worshiped that's all. Mmmmm yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I relate to that for sure.

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Speaker 1: My dad was trying to get me to marry this

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Speaker 1: guy who, in fairness, I really really liked. I just

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Speaker 1: was not attracted to him in high school, who was

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Speaker 1: like one of my really good friends. But the possibility

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Speaker 1: that I would date outside of the church was just

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Speaker 1: like yeah, no, I just don't, don't do it.

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Speaker 2: But it was annoying because the people in the church

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Speaker 2: are the ones pressuring me to like do the worst stuff.

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Speaker 2: None of the other guys were sending me naked pictures

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Speaker 2: of them tool one hundred percent, I think.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure I've brought this up a thousand

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Speaker 1: times before, but like when my mom got excommunicated for

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Speaker 1: having sex with her boyfriend after my dad. The people

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Speaker 1: who were like trying to have sex with her were

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Speaker 1: like bishops, right, they were like people high up in

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Speaker 1: the church, it's like, and none of them got fucking excommunicated,

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Speaker 1: Like why would they They're men.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, I'm glad you. That was the cultiest thing

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Speaker 2: that happened for me this week, just this memory of

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Speaker 2: how unfair it fucking is. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Also, I remember, and maybe I've talked about this as well,

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Speaker 1: but I remember at church dances you had to keep

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Speaker 1: the length of a Bible in a Book of Mormon between.

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Speaker 2: You're going to say, the length of a dick. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that is what it looks like. I'm that's what I'll

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Speaker 2: take your length of like a dick. So you get

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Speaker 2: used to it, okay, okay, yeah, no Bible and a

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Speaker 2: Book of Mormon between you.

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Speaker 1: So that so you'd be at dances and instead of

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Speaker 1: like being close together like you would at school dances,

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Speaker 1: you're like this.

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Speaker 2: And it was called the deacon swoop.

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Speaker 1: Because I think the boys who are like maybe twelve

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Speaker 1: to fourteen or something like that were called deacons and.

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Speaker 2: They didn't know how to dance, and you had to

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Speaker 2: stay far apart. So the only way they knew how

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Speaker 2: to dance was to like dip you down for the

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Speaker 2: slow dance. So it's like the Deacon swoop. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, a TikTok dance we're going to do today

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Speaker 2: when Wow follow us on TikTok? Yeah? Oh my god?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so that's that's that's the Mormon version. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what's the cultiest thing that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is just gonna sound so similar

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Speaker 1: so many of my other weeks. I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: a fucking broken record. But okay, So on the on

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Speaker 1: the anxiety journey, which has now turned into an OCD

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Speaker 1: journey because y'all.

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Speaker 5: I got a diagnosis ooh new diet, I got it, yeah,

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Speaker 5: new dieg And I got a diagnosis of pure obsessional

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Speaker 5: OCD nice, which I actually am so relieved about because

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Speaker 5: I've been like talking to therapists and you know, I

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Speaker 5: try medication, like what nobody seemed to be able to

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Speaker 5: really pinpoint.

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Speaker 2: They were like, well, maybe it's your trauma or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Uh, it turns out I'm just an obsessive person who

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Speaker 1: gets stuck in thought loops, which is why it's been

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Speaker 1: so hard to shake. The de realization and the anxiety

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Speaker 1: has like maybe it was triggered initially by stuff in

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Speaker 1: my past, but the problem is now it kind of

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with that. It's just like you're

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Speaker 1: just stuck in this. I'm just like stuck in a cycle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not that bad. I'm like, I'm I'm functional.

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Speaker 2: I feel it feels like you feel better. I think

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Speaker 2: I feel.

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Speaker 1: Better, but I like, I still I'm still happy. It's

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Speaker 1: like it's not gone, you know. So Anyway, so now

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Speaker 1: I have this diagnosis and today today was our second session.

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Speaker 1: We're doing a CBT course of treatment or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: I feel so relieved, Like I feel like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this like oh a therapist who actually, like all of

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Speaker 1: her other clients experienced the same shit that I'm experiencing.

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Speaker 1: All Like, she knows exactly what derealization is, and it's

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Speaker 1: not like some weird thing that must be connected to trauma.

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Speaker 2: She like has a clear understanding of it. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I will join this this CBT cult. Guys.

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Speaker 1: Yes, immediately, I've tried. I've tried everything. Like I was

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Speaker 1: making a list because I'm pitching an article to publications.

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Speaker 2: If anyone in has If anyone's an.

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Speaker 1: Editor or at an outlet, please yeah, because I want

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Speaker 1: to write a piece about what this journey has been

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Speaker 1: like with this experience has been like because I am

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Speaker 1: the most type. This has been like the most type

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Speaker 1: a approach to anxiety of any of anyone I've ever met,

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Speaker 1: Like the list of everything, and you're like this too,

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Speaker 1: though the list of everything I've tried is very long.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm like, Okay. I tried regular talk therapy, I

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Speaker 1: tried a MDR. I tried neuro feedback. I tried medication,

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Speaker 1: I tried herbal supplements, I tried apps, I tried books,

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Speaker 1: I tried meditation, coaches, I tried anxiety just like literally

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Speaker 1: everything except for kenemine therapy, which you did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah I did. Did you like it? I did? It's

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Speaker 2: very expensive. But I have a new friend who has

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Speaker 2: a friend who sells ketymine, so you're just gonna see Wyatt.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's just called doing drugs.

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Speaker 2: I think so, But that's okay. I didn't change anything

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Speaker 2: for you. I really do think that it did. But

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Speaker 2: you have to do it more than once, and I

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Speaker 2: only could afford to do it once. It's like a

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars, it's a one thousand dollars. It's an infusion,

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Speaker 2: and it's a whole thing. So you know, why not

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Speaker 2: buy a pill for thirty dollars off the street, Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: I mean just kidding, but ideally, like, were you guided

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Speaker 2: through it? Yeah? Okay, Well that's what you're paying for, right,

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean you're paying to not trip balls

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Speaker 2: by yourself and get scared.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, because like I could say, ketymine

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Speaker 1: right now by myself, but I'm pretty sure it would

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Speaker 1: make everything a whole lot worse.

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Speaker 2: Right, the nine hundred and fifty other dollars would be

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Speaker 2: towards it helping. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I also started seeing a mindfulness coach. Jesusredulous.

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Speaker 2: That's too many things, Lola, now, it's too much. But

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Speaker 2: I love her, Okay, I actually love her.

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Speaker 1: It's very practical, she's very like, she's very soothing anyway.

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Speaker 1: But so it turns out what I needed this whole

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Speaker 1: time was CBT for OCD and other acronyms and mindfulness.

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Speaker 2: That's what I needed.

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Speaker 1: So anyone else is stuck in thought loops, I'm here

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Speaker 1: to tell you it's great.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's my coldiest thing. And if anybody else is

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Speaker 2: getting pictures of a man in a tool belt, I

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Speaker 2: know him, call me. Now. This is just going to

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Speaker 2: be a thing people do.

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Speaker 1: So you're gonna gonna get dms of all kinds of

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Speaker 1: inappropriate pictures. One time, when I was a teenager, I

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Speaker 1: wrote an essay about about how I got robbed at

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Speaker 1: John Bajuice.

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Speaker 2: Oh at gunpoint is true? It is true. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: When I was seventeen, I worked at John Bejuice and

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Speaker 1: Burbank and we got robbed at gunpoint. And I was

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Speaker 1: the first person who pointed the gun at and he

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Speaker 1: had a ski mask on his face and his eyes

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Speaker 1: were really beautiful, and so in the essay.

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Speaker 2: I was like, who was that masked man? And this

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Speaker 2: is on my Space.

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Speaker 1: I posted this, Oh no, and I got more than

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Speaker 1: one message from random strangers in ski masks being like, yeah, sweet,

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Speaker 1: you're into right, So anyway that's gonna happen to us

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Speaker 1: now with the naked.

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Speaker 2: God, oh my goodness that you guys. No, don't no,

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Speaker 2: we don't want that. I've already seen it, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: it's already Jack. You can you can send that to

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Speaker 2: me because you're my boyfriend. This is your boyfriend Jack,

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Speaker 2: not anyone else just happening to be named Jack, anyone

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Speaker 2: named Jack, nude picks. Okay, all right, guys, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is a fun episode. I think are gonna like it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Don't set their expectations like that. Do

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Speaker 2: you think it's too high or too low?

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Speaker 1: Well, you can't say they're gonna like it, because then

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Speaker 1: they're thinking it's gonna be great, and what if it's

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Speaker 1: like just fine?

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Speaker 2: Okay, take this part out, Steve, I'll say it. I'll

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Speaker 2: say it different. I like this part. Okay, don't take

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Speaker 2: this out, Steve. Here's the thing I feel seen by

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Speaker 2: these girls. I feel like they fucking get it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I feel good. I don't know if listeners are

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Speaker 2: gonna be like but I don't get it. I don't know. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's probably a lot of our listeners

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Speaker 1: because I feel like these kinds of experiences are just

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Speaker 1: like way more common than yeah, is understood typically, And

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Speaker 1: if and if.

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Speaker 2: Somebody doesn't enjoy it wouldn't be the caller's fault, it'll

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Speaker 2: be our fault because they're great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, they're great. Yeah, it's us, but you're gonna

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Speaker 1: love it. Okay, let's talk to Holly and Emily, now

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Speaker 1: shall we.

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Speaker 6: Let's get it Okay, I am Hello.

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Speaker 2: So you are musician as well in Houston. Hello.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that's correct.

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Speaker 2: What kind of music do you do?

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Speaker 4: It's kind of a mix of like pop rock, psych rock, bedroom,

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Speaker 4: bulk rock. Hello.

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Speaker 2: Yes, please, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So you left us a message, and thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for leaving a message. You are the first person

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Speaker 1: we are ever calling on the show.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited right now. Yeah, this is exciting. Emily,

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Speaker 2: we're a little bit like, not nervous, but you know,

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Speaker 2: we're kind of nervous. So if you're like, this is strange, Wow, my.

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Speaker 4: God, I'm nervous.

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Speaker 2: We're all nervous because.

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Speaker 4: I love you guys, and I love your podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for listening.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you left us a message about cults of one,

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Speaker 1: which is something that comes up a lot, and you

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Speaker 1: are absolutely correct. We should do an entire episode on that.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, can you tell us about the cult

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Speaker 1: of one that you experienced in your life?

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 4: I call it the cults of super Dad because that's

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Speaker 4: what my dad liked to call himself that's what he's

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Speaker 4: to call him, super Dad. Yeah, he even had like

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Speaker 4: a little drawing, a little insignia like Superman but with

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Speaker 4: SD on the inside. So you know, I had been

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Speaker 4: knowing for a long time that he exhibited a lot

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Speaker 4: of cult leader type personality traits, but it wasn't really

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Speaker 4: until this year when I started listening to podcasts like yours,

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Speaker 4: that I started identifying myself with a survivor of a cult,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, oh my, like it opened my wealth.

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Speaker 4: I know that a lot of abusive relationships and emotional

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Speaker 4: abuse can kind of line up with cult like types

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Speaker 4: of control and manipulation, but there was always something extra

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Speaker 4: special about my dad, and I started realizing, like, wow,

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Speaker 4: he really is very similar to Trump. For example, I

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Speaker 4: can't listen because my dad reminds me of him. And

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Speaker 4: even like Jim Jones and Charles Manson, there's just a

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Speaker 4: way like he's very charismatic. He's very like psych you out,

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Speaker 4: but can also be very loved Bob me and so yeah,

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Speaker 4: So I mean I'll start with my name. First of all,

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Speaker 4: it is not actually Emily, It's actually spelled m l Ee,

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Speaker 4: So m Lee, right, and I kind of realized a

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Speaker 4: couple of years ago I hate my name. I'm so

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Speaker 4: frustrated with it. And then when I was listening to

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Speaker 4: these cult stories, I was like, oh my god, this

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Speaker 4: is the first othering of me that my dad did,

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Speaker 4: and it was a way to sort of isolate me

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Speaker 4: to other me. And he always said, you know, you're

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Speaker 4: going to be unique. I want you to be unique special.

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Speaker 4: But that was a lie because all it ever did

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Speaker 4: was make it really hard for me to go through

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Speaker 4: life because he didn't think about phonetics when he spelled

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Speaker 4: my name, and it's not a common name, so nobody

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Speaker 4: knows how to say it. So I have always felt, really,

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Speaker 4: you know, just kind of hindered by it, always having

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Speaker 4: to spell it for people. Everyone wants to pronounce it Malie.

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Speaker 3: So I was like, oh.

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Speaker 4: My god, you know and that that that did not

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Speaker 4: help me, and I I've been thinking a lot about

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Speaker 4: changing my name. Actually, I really want to put an

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Speaker 4: E on the front because no, but I mean, it

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Speaker 4: doesn't make sense. You know, you don't say and money,

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Speaker 4: you don't say in magic, you say magic or you know,

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Speaker 4: fanatically correct.

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Speaker 2: For what it is worth. As an outsider who doesn't

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Speaker 2: know your dad at all. I think it's I think

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Speaker 2: it's cool. Well I'm thinking she should double down and

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Speaker 2: just everybody, I think you should add another letter. That's

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Speaker 2: like kind of strange too, So people are like, whoa, OK. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: on top of right, Emily, what was the kind of

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Speaker 2: stuff that you were hearing on these podcasts that was

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Speaker 2: resonating with you?

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Speaker 4: Holy shit? Well, one thing that my dad used to

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Speaker 4: say a lot was like, I'm probably an alien.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: The first thing that actually really got me down this

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Speaker 4: road tilts one. I listened to a podcast about tilt one,

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Speaker 4: and I was just like, you know, this takes me

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Speaker 4: back to thinking about how my dad it's so similar

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Speaker 4: to these types of people. It's just the inflation of

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Speaker 4: ego and then narcissism and the whole alien thing.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: He used to say things like I might not be

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Speaker 4: from this planet and I'm really special, and you know,

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Speaker 4: i might even be like a Neanderthalt. I'm not human,

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Speaker 4: I'm not normal, so therefore special, right right.

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Speaker 3: And he did.

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Speaker 4: Did get treated. I mean, he never worked for one thing.

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Speaker 4: He worked maybe about two years out of my childhood,

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Speaker 4: Like my whole holhood really still doesn't work, so basically

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Speaker 4: living rent free, trying to convince others that he's special

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Speaker 4: and alien, calling himself super Goad. But he's not like

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Speaker 4: at all super God.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna ask, like, this is super Dad supposed

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Speaker 1: to be a compliment to his like parenting skills because

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Speaker 1: he like cares so much? Or is it just like

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Speaker 1: he's a superhero who happens to be a dad.

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Speaker 4: No, it's like I'm the greatest uh huh, worship.

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Speaker 3: Me right right?

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Speaker 2: Is he religious about No?

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Speaker 4: No, of course not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that makes that.

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Speaker 4: A yeah, there's no God before him, right, That's how

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Speaker 4: I always felt.

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Speaker 2: Right, he has to be the center of it. I

399
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Speaker 2: was going to ask you before he sort of said

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Speaker 2: he doesn't really work? Is he successful?

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Speaker 1: Because I feel like often when I hear stories about

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Speaker 1: these personality types, like I know a man who, though

403
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Speaker 1: I am not a mental health professional, I am very

404
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Speaker 1: convinced that he's a malignant narcissist as well as like

405
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Speaker 1: a psychopath. And he's a billionaire, a literalit millionaire, And

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Speaker 1: I feel like that happens a lot. But it's interesting

407
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Speaker 1: the idea that someone who just like doesn't work and

408
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Speaker 1: just does he just like convince people to like give

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Speaker 1: him money, Like how does it work.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's where the you know, the cult of one

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00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 4: thing comes in, because my mom was basically his one

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Speaker 4: follower that did buy him for a really long time

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Speaker 4: and did everything for him. So he got one person

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Speaker 4: at least right support him, you know. And then me

415
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Speaker 4: and my brother we didn't really have a choice, so

416
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Speaker 4: of course we were born into the cult. But my

417
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Speaker 4: mom was sucked into it. She was charmed. And you

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Speaker 4: know the way he describes my dad when she met

419
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Speaker 4: him at u H Music schools, he would come in

420
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Speaker 4: the room and he would just start playing piano, and

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Speaker 4: everybody loved him supposedly. Also, like in high school, he

422
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 4: would do certain things like try to get everyone to

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Speaker 4: wear white shirts on the same day, or like bring

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Speaker 4: everybody tray to the to the trey return like all

425
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Speaker 4: at the same time so that it would like clog that.

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Speaker 4: Like I always heard stories like this about my dad

427
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Speaker 4: that he he was always doing things like this to

428
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Speaker 4: try to just really get a bunch of people to

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Speaker 4: do what he wanted, I don't know, prove to himself

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Speaker 4: or something. And he was in a he was a

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Speaker 4: band leader for a long time, like I grew up

432
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Speaker 4: like a rock and roll kid, Like I didn't have

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Speaker 4: a bedroom. Wow, My crib was like in the middle

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Speaker 4: of the music room the practice room, and it just

435
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Speaker 4: got moved around. And so I think for a long

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Speaker 4: time he thought he was going to be like a

437
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 4: rock star. And then he became an alcoholic and so

438
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 4: you know, he was very depressed too. I mean, he

439
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 4: didn't do anything, so there's lots of layers going on there.

440
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,959
Speaker 4: But then you know, as I got older, there started

441
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 4: to be more weird stuff that he would do, Like

442
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 4: if I was ever interested in religion, he would be

443
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 4: very like, no, you can't, you know, very adverse to

444
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 4: me going to any Bible studies or anything like that.

445
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 4: And then one time he made me wear like a

446
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 4: uniform to school, even though we didn't have uniforms.

447
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 2: Wow, with his own.

448
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 4: Uniform because I wasn't making the grades he wanted me

449
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 4: to make.

450
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: Oh my god, he he.

451
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 4: Made me like where he made my mom do it too.

452
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 4: He didn't actually take me to buy the clothes. He

453
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 4: sent my mom to buy all solid color shirts like

454
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 4: vom jeans like which are cool now. But you know,

455
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 4: I hated that my color white cud everything that I hated.

456
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 4: I was like a grungye. I wore eyeliner and wow.

457
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 3: Drive my hair.

458
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 4: So he just thinks me took all of that away

459
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 4: and made me wear this ugly, horrible like uniform, you know,

460
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 4: and it was humiliating, like seventh grade and you know,

461
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 4: just little things like that where I'm like, you know,

462
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 4: it's so culty, and actually being able to see it

463
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 4: in this light has helped me to kind of feel

464
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 4: from it a lot, because I just always saw it

465
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: as emotional abuse and verbal abuse, and now it's like, oh,

466
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 4: there's like another layer, and there's actually a whole other

467
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 4: group of people out there exactly experienced similar types of abuse.

468
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 4: It's kind of in this weird niche, you know, where

469
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 4: like oh yeah, this strange thing.

470
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 2: You know that my.

471
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, like he has the time my showers and time,

472
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 4: you know, all these little very isolating like he didn't

473
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 4: let me really see much of my mom's side as

474
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 4: a family because he didn't like them. I mean until

475
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 4: I got older, but at first it was like he

476
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 4: didn't even want my mom to see her.

477
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, I feel like we're super lucky

478
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 2: that he has depression because he sounds like he could

479
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: really run do some damn Yeah, he could run a

480
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 2: cult for really.

481
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 4: Well, It's it's really fascinating to me, like why he

482
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 4: didn't like succeed And I guess, like you know, bottom line,

483
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: like you know, they say narcissists are really just very

484
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 4: insecure actually when it comes down to it, and I

485
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 4: think that once he got cozy with my mom, you know,

486
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 4: he didn't really. I think he just he needed to

487
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 4: be a the word by at least one person, and

488
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 4: then when he had me and my brother, then he

489
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 4: could have someone do the manual labor around the house

490
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 4: and and you know whatever, and just basically just have

491
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 4: everybody be his slaves, you know, right.

492
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it's interesting to me, first of all that

493
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: he was like trying to be a successful musician, because

494
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 1: you know, we talk about how people in the entertainment

495
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: industry like it just attracts narcissistic people. It's like, if

496
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: you become a rock star, yeah, you can easily cultivate

497
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: a cult like atmosphere and.

498
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: Nobody, nobody knows twice about it. That's cool, yeah, yeah.

499
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: But then if you don't succeeded that, well, what's the

500
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: next easiest thing. The easy way to have like a

501
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: little group of followers around you is a family. A

502
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: family is like your little cultivated tiny colt, which, yeah,

503
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess if you just want to have

504
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: control over anyone and you don't really care, like that's

505
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: the way to do it. But I'm sorry that you,

506
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, were faced with that growing.

507
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: Up, right well, and as I got older, the whole

508
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 4: thing became the family band and two and I think

509
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 4: he really thought at one point that the family band

510
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 4: was going to be something because he would like make

511
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 4: us play, like I don't know, his friends, work parties

512
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,479
Speaker 4: or whatever, and like nobody really wanted to play with

513
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 4: him for a certain time.

514
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 3: It was like fun for a metal this forcing us

515
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 3: to do it.

516
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 4: And he's still mad about it, Like he still thinks

517
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 4: he thinks we're going to have a family band one day.

518
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

519
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 4: You know, I think that he really wants me to

520
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 4: succeed musically so that he can live vicariously through me, right,

521
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 4: And it's kind of gives me a kind of a

522
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 4: mind fuck, because I'm like, oll, you know, it's interesting

523
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 4: because like I do, music comes naturally to me because

524
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 4: both my parents are musicians. But he I some of

525
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 4: this feels like I'm continuing this this thing that I

526
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 4: was forced to do. And it's like, am I subconsciously

527
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 4: to mean that? I don't know, you know, but.

528
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,479
Speaker 1: If you love it, you love it, and you can

529
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: do it on your own terms, you know, as long

530
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: as it's not like doing the music Dad wants you

531
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: to do.

532
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I would just be worried about sabotaging

533
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: myself just to not give him the satisfaction, right, right,

534
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 2: That's what I would exactly.

535
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 4: Yeah. There's that too, where it's like, well, I'm not

536
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 4: going to not do it just because you know, yeah.

537
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: Just because he'll want it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

538
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 1: Do you have you found that it like having this

539
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: relationship in your life has affected your romantic relationship chip relationships,

540
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: just like as a grown up.

541
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 4: But I mean, my my husband and I are in

542
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 4: couple therapy and we talk about this all the time,

543
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 4: and I'll have I was previously my as well, and

544
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 4: I think I really I was really this year when

545
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 4: I started seeing more of this kind of lining up,

546
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, I have really been looking for

547
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 4: other leaders like my whole adult life in one way

548
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 4: or another, and really like giving other people a lot

549
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 4: of power because this is what I was raised, what

550
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 4: I was modeled to do, whether I thought I was

551
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 4: doing it or not. So it does I you know,

552
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 4: I definitely. I've been married to two artists, one I'm

553
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 4: currently married to, and so, you know, in some ways,

554
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 4: I'm like, am I the the echo list?

555
00:27:59,520 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 5: You know?

556
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 4: I like play this role where I'm like shining the

557
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 4: spotlight on someone who's a successful artist so that I

558
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 4: can be you know, so that I can play the

559
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 4: role of my mother or whatever, you know, and right,

560
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 4: because that's often what happens to children who were raised

561
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 4: by narcissess. You know, sometimes they become echoless and and

562
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 4: then sometimes I'm like, am I a narcissist?

563
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 5: You know?

564
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: So it's, oh, my total I think you're not, because

565
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: you're wondering if you are. Yeah, I was gonna say

566
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 2: that's the big hench. But I relate it with everything

567
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 2: you're saying so much.

568
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I talk with my therapist about it a lot.

569
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, at least it's it's funny, like if it

570
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: makes me feel like we're not, Okay, we're not, but

571
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: it sometimes can feel like we're a slave.

572
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: To the way that we were raised.

573
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: Right, like we're just repeating those relationships, and of course

574
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,719
Speaker 1: that's not true. Like now I'm in therapy and I'm

575
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: in a healthy relationship, and I'm like breaking the patterns

576
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: and because I'm able to reckon them. But it is interesting,

577
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: Like one of my really good friends had a pretty

578
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: abusive childhood and she just and she knows, she knows

579
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: that that was abusive, and she knows that everyone she

580
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: dates is abusive, but she like still just is so.

581
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: Drawn to them.

582
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: And I have I have faith that you know, through

583
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: with time and through.

584
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: Therapy, like she'll break those cycles.

585
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: But it is maddening that we do that, that we're

586
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: drawn to the very thing that makes us unhappy.

587
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: And I mean my mine is with addicts, And like

588
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: I'll walk into a party and somebody will be shining

589
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: like a fucking I don't know, strobe light to me,

590
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: and then I'll have a five second conversation with them

591
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you're an addict, That's why you signed

592
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: so bright to me. It's really strange.

593
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 4: I think everyone I've ever been in a relationship with

594
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 4: it's an addict, whether they're currently using or not. SAM

595
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: So there's definitely that going on and it's not just

596
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 4: you know, personal romantic relationships. I want words this cafe

597
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 4: for like three years, and looking back on it, I'm

598
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 4: like that those men were colsey as fuck and they

599
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 4: abused me and that you know, even my my current husband,

600
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 4: he tried to get me to leave that job and

601
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 4: I just couldn't. It was just like it's fine, you

602
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 4: know whatever, I can put up with it. But of course,

603
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 4: like once I got from distance, I was like, that

604
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 4: was pretty similar to like what I experienced with my dad.

605
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: Like of course, you know, like so yeah, in the

606
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 4: music industry too, is just you know, like it's yeah,

607
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 4: it's it's you can't escape those type of people. So

608
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: I'm definitely you know, in cohoot with with all types

609
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 4: like that. But it's yeah, I've just just really been

610
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 4: able to like complete my story. I feel like by

611
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 4: seeing you know, just remembering like the crazy super dad

612
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 4: being even was just like, yeah, that's that's not that's

613
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 4: not cool, Like it's not normal.

614
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: You're that to yourself, It's not appropriate. Yeah, I could.

615
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: See a version of it where it's just like like

616
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: I had a pretty goofy dad and he you know,

617
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a version where there's like goofy dad

618
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: being like I'm super dad. But when it's like, no,

619
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: I am the best dad, right, Like that's that's a

620
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: different thing.

621
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 4: It was not. Yeah, I mean he is goofy and

622
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 4: very charismatic, but it was like he was like I

623
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 4: am the best, I'm teaching you and.

624
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: I'm in great stuff alien like yeah.

625
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 4: It's and yeah, maybe also I'm and nobody understands me.

626
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: I'm so misunderstood, you know. I like I'm an outsider

627
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 4: and I am the victim basically, and so therefore.

628
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: Like I must be great, right.

629
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 4: And he would do other things like to impress my friends,

630
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 4: you know. I mean he would come to my school

631
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 4: and play music and mostly my elementary school. But then

632
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 4: when I was like in high school, he came and

633
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 4: like did some of the musicals, like he played guitar

634
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 4: for them. And I feel like there was always this

635
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 4: campaign to like make sure that everybody around us thought

636
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 4: that he was just the coolest guy around, so that

637
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 4: if we ever said, hey, he's actually really abusive and

638
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 4: horrible to us, that it would be like, what, your

639
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 4: dad's the coolest.

640
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 3: Right, right?

641
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: I mean classic, right.

642
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: They're always so charismatic and everyone's drawn to them.

643
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: They're so fun. Oh yeah, I'm wondering two things. I'm

644
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: wondering number one, what your relationship with him is like now.

645
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: But number two, I'm wondering, what, like, what do you

646
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: think would happen if he heard this?

647
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so right before to answer the number two first,

648
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 4: like right before you guys called, I started getting this

649
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 4: fear like, oh my god, you know, is he going

650
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 4: to be mad? Like it was like a little kid

651
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 4: voice inside my head going like I'll like it, you know,

652
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 4: and thinking like, oh my god, he's gonna he's gonna

653
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 4: threaten to assue me. He's gonna threaten to assume me,

654
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 4: because that's like his deal, Like he loves to threaten

655
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 4: to see people all kinds of always a threat. He

656
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 4: never has feed anymore. But then but then always like

657
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 4: that is not like this is the thing, Like it's

658
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 4: still going you know, like if he does, like this

659
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 4: is the fear trap. You know, I don't think he's

660
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 4: gonna hear it, but if he did, yeah, he'd be

661
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 4: real pissed. And and we're not talking right now. We're

662
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: in another phase of not speaking because he I just

663
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 4: I had to make another boundary decision where I'm like,

664
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 4: I have a five year old son, and I just

665
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 4: he was starting to get weird again already, he was like,

666
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 4: not in my life and not in the kid's life.

667
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 4: And then I decided to try it again. And then

668
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 4: just recently I was like, I this is you know,

669
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 4: I don't feel safe around him. And if I don't

670
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 4: feel safe, like even emotionally safe, like, then I can't

671
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 4: be a good parent, you know, so I have to

672
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: protect myself.

673
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: Well, good for you for trying that boundary. That's incredibly

674
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: that sounds incredibly healthy and important. Absolutely very hard.

675
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 4: It's very hard because my mom still talks to him,

676
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 4: and that's you know, they're they're divorced, but she still

677
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 4: maintained like a friendship with him. And that's hard because

678
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: their mom and I are close. But I wish that

679
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 4: she wouldn't, you know. But I mean, I'm always tricky.

680
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just gonna say about the suing thing.

681
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I've talked about that a bit

682
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: on the show. I don't know if you've heard, but

683
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: I've also my you know, former cult leader has tried

684
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: to sue me actively. Turns out he's so he's such

685
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: an idiot that he could didn't file anything correctly, so

686
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: they threw it out immediately. Fortunately, he's tried to sue

687
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: people multiple times. But I just like that that tactic

688
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: and even just threatening it regardless of whether they actually

689
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: do it. I just find that tactic to be so curiated.

690
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is a silencing tactic.

691
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: And I you know, even if you know he'll never

692
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: do it, I think that like choosing to talk about

693
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: it with that the threat of that, like subtly lingering

694
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: in the background, I think that is a brave choice

695
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: that you've made. You've chosen yourself over like letting him

696
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: have power over you, And I think that that's great.

697
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, the crux of it was is just you know,

698
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 4: he wanted to keep talking about how great things were

699
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 4: in my childhood and I finally was like, you know,

700
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 4: there was some really bad times too, and I need

701
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 4: you to acknowledge that, and he couldn't acknowledge it. Specifically

702
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 4: this one poem that he and that's just kind of graphic,

703
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 4: but he like made me pull my pants down to

704
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 4: thank me when I was fourteen. Wow, And you know,

705
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 4: there wasn't a lot of that, and really that was

706
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 4: the only instance like that age. But it's like if

707
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 4: you can't like acknowledge that that was abuse, then like

708
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 4: I can't have a relationship with you, you know, right,

709
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: So I asked him not to contact me, and he

710
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 4: still came by my house. So like now I'm the

711
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 4: one saying having to say, look, if you can't respect

712
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 4: my boundaries or now have to get a restraining order.

713
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 4: But it's like it's so crazy because it's just like

714
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 4: he doesn't want to stop. You know, he won't stop,

715
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 4: and he won't you won't acknowledge any of my I mean,

716
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 4: he basically tells me it didn't happen, but like like

717
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 4: my mom was there, she knows like it happened. There's

718
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 4: like all gasolating.

719
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so frustrating. It makes me want to scream.

720
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 4: It's very frustrating. And there's lots of stuff he did

721
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 4: to my brothers, who is just like horrible, you know,

722
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 4: and it's just like yeah, there's like I'm not going

723
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 4: to sit here and be like, yeah, everything was great macaroni.

724
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 3: Salad on of July woohoo, Like you know, random like

725
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 3: do you remember when?

726
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 4: And it's like yeah, but I also remember like that

727
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 4: it was horrible sometimes most of the time. I mean

728
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 4: I still feel like I'm coming out of like a

729
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 4: weird place where I'm like I didn't know how to

730
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 4: live for a long time, Like I didn't know how

731
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 4: to connect with people. Like yeah, it's a lot.

732
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, do you have any like advice or.

733
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: You know, just something you'd say to someone who's maybe

734
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: currently in a similar relationship to the one with your dad.

735
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I just think this kind of stuff needs

736
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 4: to be really talked about more, because you know, it's

737
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 4: it's hard. I almost feel like I got really nervous

738
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 4: before you guys called too, because I'm like, am I

739
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 4: even qualified? You know, because you're like it's not a

740
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 4: cult though there's no there's not a guru you know,

741
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,959
Speaker 4: on a mountain or whatever. But it's like the thing

742
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 4: is is like if we can, you know, try to

743
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 4: reduce the stigma by sharing like abusive stories and how

744
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 4: people have tried to isolate us and paralyze us and

745
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 4: basically just break us down, then you know number one, Yeah,

746
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 4: like let's collectively reduce the stigma. But also like I

747
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 4: just think just start with a therapist, like just basic

748
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 4: talk therapy will help you, Like eventually. I mean that's

749
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 4: what happened with me. I mean it helped a lot,

750
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 4: Like and listen to other people's stories, you know, pick

751
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 4: out pieces that you can relate to, because I think

752
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 4: that's the biggest problem, is feeling isolated and feeling like

753
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 4: you're not no one understands you, right, like no one

754
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 4: has really gone through what you've gone through. Like you

755
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 4: just have to read memoirs, listen to podcasts, I don't know,

756
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 4: listen to other people because because then you won't feel

757
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 4: so alone, and then you might feel like you can

758
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 4: reach out for help totally.

759
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for talking to us. I

760
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: really appreciate you calling in the first place and taking

761
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: our call and all of it.

762
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 2: Truly, thank you so much.

763
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 4: It is so nice to talk to you.

764
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: You too. I hope you have a great day and

765
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 2: good luck, Emily.

766
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: I hope that you know you I mean, you probably

767
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: can't figure out the relationship with your dad to the

768
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: extent that one would hope, but I hope that you

769
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: can like get to a place where you feel okay

770
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: about it and feel like you've healed.

771
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 4: It's like an everyday journey.

772
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I'm working to hear you.

773
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 4: Thank you so.

774
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: Much, thank you having your day.

775
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 4: Thank you you too. Bye bye bye bye.

776
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: Holly. Hi Holly, Hi guy, nice to meet you too.

777
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 4: This is awesome.

778
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome to have you on. Thank you for calling us.

779
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: By the way, you have no problem. I can't wait

780
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: to hear this crazy story about dating a pair of

781
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: brothers in a small town. But to give people some context,

782
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: so you said that you grew up a fundamentalist Baptist

783
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: and that you were heavily embedded in like purity culture.

784
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: Can you just like tell us what that's about.

785
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I I want to say I grew up independent, independent,

786
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 3: fundamental Baptist. But it wasn't in my household.

787
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 4: It was in my.

788
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 3: Community, okay. And I was coming your producer that I

789
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 3: was like a bus kid, so I would go with

790
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 3: like my friend's family, or like the church had a

791
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 3: bus ministry and would like come pick you to your

792
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: house and take you to Sunday school and then like

793
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 3: drop you back off.

794
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 7: And looted all the.

795
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: Youth groups and stuff. So like I had like no

796
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: parental supervision at the church.

797
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 2: Oh you were you were one of those kids who

798
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: like wanted to go to church. Yes, that was always

799
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 2: so confusing to me. So you were like, hey, you guys,

800
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 2: I'm off going to church, and they were like cool.

801
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because people like me at church, like they

802
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: pay at in they like you know, it was fun,

803
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 3: you know, and.

804
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: It's West Virginia. So I'm assuming this is like just

805
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: a major part of the culture. Like everyone at school

806
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: was a part of it. Was that kind of the deal.

807
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, like super white town, super Christian town. Like

808
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 3: you know, you'd get a couple kids who are like Apists,

809
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 3: but like, I mean, there was like one Catholic kid

810
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 3: in my whole school. Everyone was protstant white Christians, and

811
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 3: even my parents were, well they didn't go to the church.

812
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 3: They would describe themselves as Christians, so they would think

813
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 3: that the church would be like a super safe place

814
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 3: to send their kids, like oh cool for a few hours,

815
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 3: you know, go to Bible school, go to summer camps.

816
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 3: You know. They were busy, like working people, and you know,

817
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 3: churches are supposed to provide things for young people in

818
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 3: the community, right, Yeah, that's kind of how it was.

819
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: All Right, so you're getting on buses, you're going around,

820
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: you're being Baptists.

821
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, was there any like negative parts of that before things.

822
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: I mean, like in the beginning, was there any red flags?

823
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 3: Well, yes, but I mean I'm between the ages of

824
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 3: maybe twelve to fifteen during this point of my life,

825
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: point of life when I got really deep into the church,

826
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 3: and it was definitely like just a super believing in

827
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 3: traditional values. You know, all the preachers were men. Women

828
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 3: didn't really You could sing in the church and you

829
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 3: could talk at church, but you couldn't like preach unless

830
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,919
Speaker 3: it was just to other women. And then I got

831
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 3: interested in this boy whose family was like extra conservative

832
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 3: within the church, if that makes sense. The church itself

833
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: is like conservative small town. But then I got interested

834
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 3: in this boy who was like homeschooled and his mom

835
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 3: didn't wear paste and they didn't cut their hair.

836
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: Megan, does that sound familiar. It does sound a little

837
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 2: bit too familiar. Yes, Yeah, So all right, this boy,

838
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: who's this boy, what's the deal?

839
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: We'll call him Scott. That's not his real name, but Okay's.

840
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 3: And he was just a really good looking boy like

841
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 3: my age, and like I said, he's kind of homeschooled

842
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 3: and shy, and I just had like a stretched on hand,

843
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 3: and you know, we dated you know, and it was

844
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 3: it was kind of fine, but like nobody liked it

845
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 3: because the purity culture thing was so crazy. So it'd

846
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 3: be like we'd like hold hands and like get in

847
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 3: trouble for holding hands.

848
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: Wow.

849
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 4: And I'd be like, oh, when you sit in service,

850
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 4: he has to.

851
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: Put a Bible between yourself, Like yes.

852
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: Oh my godh my gosh. This the thing is just

853
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: gonna light and fire someday. Okay, So I just this

854
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: is a little adam that I don't think I've ever

855
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 2: told you, Lola and Holly, something you just said made

856
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: me think of it. So in the church that I

857
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: was raised in, you sex was so taboo that you

858
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: couldn't even talk about not having it. So there was

859
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: no purity culture. Wait really yeah, because like purity culture

860
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 2: was just like kind of listening to somebody talk about

861
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: having sex. Oh my gosh. We just didn't acknowledge that

862
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 2: sex existed. Sex just wasn't real.

863
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 5: Wow.

864
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 2: Anyway, Holly, Okay, so you're in purity culture. Do you

865
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 2: have like the ring and all of that stuff?

866
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh I.

867
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 3: The boy from the Girl. My problem with like purity

868
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 3: culture and like stuff like that is like there are

869
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 3: people who say you shouldn't have primarial sex. They were

870
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 3: obsessed with it.

871
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: Right, right, the only topic of conversation.

872
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, dress modestly, beat her. Well, if you

873
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 3: hold hands and you kiss, that's going to start your

874
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 3: body into the motions and then your body doesn't want

875
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 3: to stop, which is so not taking responsibility or you know.

876
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 4: A.

877
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are the things you That's such a good

878
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: point actually, like because I was also raised with.

879
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: That kind of thinking. It was slightly different because it's Mormonism,

880
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 2: so it's not quite you know, you don't have the

881
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: ring or anything, but like yeah, it's like, oh no,

882
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 2: if we tempt the boys, they won't be able to stop,

883
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: which is really sets up a real rape culture that

884
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 2: yeah they can stop. Yeah, no they can, I promise, Yeah,

885
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: go on, go on.

886
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm trying to get some of the other language.

887
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 3: It would always be about like you could be a

888
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 3: stumbling block for someone else, right, like if you were

889
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: like dressed appropriately and acting appropriately and like having faith,

890
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: like you could cause somebody else, you know, usually a boy.

891
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: To lose their faith.

892
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 3: Oh, a lot of that kind of language. The other

893
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: big thing at my church in how big the youth

894
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 3: ministry was is because a lot of their youth leaders

895
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 3: were teachers and like police officers in my community because like,

896
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 3: oh wow, part of the reason I'm like so anti

897
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 3: bus ministry now is because like the leader of my

898
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 3: youth group was like not just a teacher at the school.

899
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 3: He was like a teacher for like the kids with

900
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: bad behavior, where all the kids he would go and

901
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 3: pick up on the bus and fill his youth group with.

902
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 2: Okay, and I have an article of about the bus

903
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: ministry right now, can you can you say a little

904
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: bit more about it?

905
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 3: So bus ministry is like this idea that you go

906
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 3: into the community and spread the word of Christ and

907
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 3: you bring people back with you and if you and

908
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 3: it's and it's to get young people. It's to get

909
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 3: young people and like very old people. Those are the

910
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 3: two groups they target with that.

911
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 2: Those are the two people. Put on a bus on right, right.

912
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: Go to a church, potlug, Sure, put me on the bus, Like, yeah.

913
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: They're preaching to you while you're on the bus. Is

914
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: that like while they have you in enclosed space?

915
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, I mean you're gonna be with one

916
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 3: of the leaders of the church and maybe they're like

917
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 3: white for fiance. You know, because usually it's a guy

918
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 3: driving the bus. Yeah, and then it's just like you

919
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 3: go to youth group and you sing in the choir

920
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 3: and you you know, you help with vacation Bible school,

921
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 3: go to summer camp. I mean I used to go

922
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 3: to like camp and like live in a tree, stand

923
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 3: in the woods and like read the Bible.

924
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 2: Would you okay, would you read the books about purity?

925
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: Because I remember my best friend in high school, Hillary

926
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: Hilton shout out, would just like have all these books

927
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 2: that were just like waiting, all in white letters, you know,

928
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: and it'd just be highlighted just like how not to

929
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 2: have sex? Were you that deep into the culture.

930
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 3: The most famous one, I think it's called I Kissed

931
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 3: Dating Goodbye, and it's all about how Christian girls don't

932
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 3: date the court. Right, So when I was with like

933
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: super religious boy, we weren't dating. We were courting because

934
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: it was the intention, even though we were like fourteen.

935
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 3: Oh if you're like even like slightly like interested in someone, right.

936
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: God, Yeah, well we all marry the person we dated

937
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: when we were fourteen.

938
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 2: I mean I'm parting them, of course you did. Yeah, Yeah,

939
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 2: that's true.

940
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, I've been thinking a lot about OCD lately,

941
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: and this is probably going to come up on a

942
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: bunch of upcoming episodes, But one of the things that

943
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: they talk about with OCD and with anxiety is that

944
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: what you focus on grows. So if you're trying not

945
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: to think about something, you're just telling your brain to

946
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: send you more and more and more and more of

947
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: that thought.

948
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: Thanks, friends. Purity culture is so so so counterproductive, right, Like,

949
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 2: if you really.

950
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: Want kids to not have sex, talk to them about

951
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: something else, anything, don't think don't think about pairs right now,

952
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: right like you all you're going to think about is

953
00:48:59,000 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: fucking pears.

954
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,240
Speaker 2: Hell is a great is a great replacement my religion discovered.

955
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: But you can just you can replace all the sex

956
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 2: discussions with hell discussions and then no one is even

957
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 2: horny anymore. That's great.

958
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So so I want to hear where

959
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: does the brother come into play?

960
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 3: So his brother, this is like, of course, the like

961
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 3: nice religious boy who is like appropriately aged for me,

962
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 3: Like you know, this is his older brother, who was

963
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 3: supposed to be like the golden boy, going to be

964
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 3: a preacher, you know, just got done, like moved out

965
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 3: of the home where his parents had had full control

966
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 3: of him. So looking back now, he was even like

967
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 3: more handsome and you know, instead of being shy, he

968
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 3: was like charming and like fly and like he pulled

969
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 3: this move on me in the church basement when I

970
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 3: was like fourteen and he was like definitely seventeen or

971
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 3: eighteen and was a bit a dollar. I can kiss

972
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 3: you without touching your lips, was like close your eyes,

973
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 3: and he kissed me and gave me the dollar, right,

974
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 3: like so it's where's every pennyhow? And he would like

975
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 3: call me and like we talk on the phone all

976
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 3: night and just looking back now, like he was totally

977
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 3: praying on me, Yeah, like yeah.

978
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: That's really really creepy.

979
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 1: Was he ostensibly a fundamental Baptist while this was all happening, I.

980
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 3: Think so yes, that he was like in like I

981
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 3: think he was going through like his bad boy stage

982
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 3: and trying to break out of the church where I

983
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 3: was like the bust kid. Anyway, I yeah, it's just

984
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 3: like one I didn't have anybody to like tell me

985
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 3: this is a really bad idea, and two his parents

986
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 3: didn't like me, so like it's like he could go

987
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 3: screw the church, screw the parents for me. You know

988
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 3: everything by getting involved with me.

989
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: So how did that end up?

990
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 3: It just like escalated over my teen years. Eventually I

991
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 3: stopped like dating his brother when I was about fifteen,

992
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 3: almost sixteen. And when I stopped dating his brother, I

993
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 3: pretty much left the church. But he never like lost

994
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: trap of me, because like we were in the same

995
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 3: small town. He had my phone number, like he knew

996
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 3: where I live. Like he would just like he'd go

997
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: away for a few months and then like come back,

998
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 3: you know, and then like spend like two weeks talking

999
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 3: to me and making me like gush and fall in

1000
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 3: love with him, and then disappear again. And at one point,

1001
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 3: when I was like sixteen or seventeen, he married a

1002
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 3: girl who was my friend who had just graduated. She

1003
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 3: was like two years older than me, all right, So

1004
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 3: he married this girl when she was like freshly eighteen.

1005
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 3: She had kind of like a coppy home life and

1006
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 3: abuse the parents, and he like rescued her from that,

1007
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 3: and you know, and they were together for a little while.

1008
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 3: But then right before I turned eighteen, I guess they

1009
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 3: were separated, and he just kind of popped back up

1010
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 3: in my life, and like I mean, I swear he

1011
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 3: had to have my birthday like written down somewhere, because

1012
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 3: it was like literally weeks before my birthday. He was like, Oh,

1013
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 3: you should come over, and then that's when our relationship

1014
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 3: turned sexual.

1015
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, Baptist Bro.

1016
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: Do you blame the culture that he was living in

1017
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: or you just kind of think he was just vulturing

1018
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: around independently of that sort of culture he was living in.

1019
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 3: I definitely think it's a combination of both. And I

1020
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 3: think the problem with the church and all these things

1021
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 3: that like involved the church, like around children, is that

1022
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 3: it really just sets up a situation where there's nobody

1023
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 3: to like double check.

1024
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 4: What's going on.

1025
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 3: Like he wasn't necessarily like my youth pastor or somebody

1026
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 3: who worked with the team group, but he was like

1027
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 3: on the same age level as those people, right, you know,

1028
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 3: it's had the same kind of access. So I just

1029
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 3: think it's a really like unsafe access that you can

1030
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 3: give to someone like him who has the wrong intention.

1031
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: H And so he would be like he would it

1032
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: would essentially work right, Like he's an older guy. He

1033
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: seems kind of rebellious, Like what teenage girl wouldn't be

1034
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: like sort of charmed by that.

1035
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I know I will Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

1036
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 2: that's I mean, what happened with your faith?

1037
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 3: I don't know yet. I tell people that I'm like

1038
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 3: ex fundamental. I love like Bundy smirk Like anytime, you know,

1039
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 3: I was.

1040
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 2: Gonna say, should listen to the podcast Irigis on what's

1041
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 2: it called Christian Fun? The Christian Fun? Have you heard

1042
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 2: it at high.

1043
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 3: No, I don't think I have that. I have heard

1044
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:05,439
Speaker 3: that one.

1045
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 2: It's so funny, so funny, hilarious. Yeah, I would check

1046
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 2: that out.

1047
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 3: Well, that's why I love the cult stuff too, Like

1048
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily know that my church is a cult,

1049
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 3: even though I would definitely say it has some like

1050
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 3: authoritarian and high control in it because they do want

1051
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 3: their members to not drink either every Sunday and Wednesday,

1052
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 3: like you know top. I mean, there's definitely like a

1053
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 3: lot of involvement for like the people who are all

1054
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 3: in you know what I mean, right, And it's not

1055
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 3: scientology level involvement. It's still like three services a week

1056
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 3: and extra things. And I mean all your friends are

1057
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 3: in the church, and you know.

1058
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: It can be hard to know where the line is

1059
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: between a church and a cult. And because I think

1060
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, Like, yeah, there there are

1061
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: so many parts of our lives that our church's control.

1062
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: For me, it was the same thing growing up, before

1063
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 1: I got invold with the actual self proclaimed profit, I

1064
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: was just you know, just a run of the mill

1065
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 1: Mormon and it was three hours on Sunday you had

1066
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 1: the you know, your midweek meeting and then you'd fast

1067
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,720
Speaker 1: once a month and you'd give ten percent of your

1068
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: income and very similar. And you know, you couldn't wear

1069
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 1: anything with you couldn't wear anything sleeveless, you couldn't show

1070
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: your mid drive, you couldn't have anything that was shorter than.

1071
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: Your knees on your legs. You know. Do you think

1072
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 2: the difference between if something is a cult or not

1073
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 2: a cult is just how prepared you are mentally to

1074
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: engage with it. What do you mean, like if you

1075
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: if she's wise enough to see where the problems are,

1076
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 2: like what you know, you can just say this is

1077
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 2: a part of my life. It's not the whole thing.

1078
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: But you know, uh, yeah, if you feel if you

1079
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: feel the freedom to like make other choices right and

1080
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: like it's you're not going to be punished for exactly.

1081
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 2: It's like there's some freedom there but it's just part

1082
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: of your routine and you like it. Yeah, but I

1083
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 2: think even some churches that maybe wouldn't quite dip into

1084
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 2: cult territory, they're still pretty stringent on like you kind

1085
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 2: of have to be all in or not. So I

1086
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 2: don't I don't know, I don't know.

1087
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it also is like is there

1088
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 1: a leader who's sort of specifically dictating, Yeah, you know

1089
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: what everyone does in their lives.

1090
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: But but as we know from your.

1091
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: Group the two by twos, there isn't necessarily like one

1092
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: person at the top always, so it's it's hard to

1093
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 1: know where that line is. And it's kind of really

1094
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: just about like how we each individually feel. Do we

1095
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: feel completely controlled in this situation because one person might

1096
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: be experiencing a cult in the same church as another

1097
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: person who is not. You know, so did the original

1098
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 1: boy that you dated, did he know that you were dating,

1099
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: that the stuff was going on with his brother.

1100
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 3: Yet? Like he definitely like caught me in his brother's

1101
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 3: house one time, why are you here? And I was like, well,

1102
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 3: your brother.

1103
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 2: Gave me a tea, Like oh wow.

1104
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 3: You know, so starstrucking in love. I was like, why

1105
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 3: wouldn't I be here, like.

1106
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 2: You're like, why are you here?

1107
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 7: This is my house? Yeah, you know, I was all in,

1108
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 7: And I think because I had that all in attitude

1109
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,439
Speaker 7: for the church at such a young age, it made

1110
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 7: it so easy for me to have an all in

1111
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 7: attitude for.

1112
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 3: Like this abusive relationship I then had that was like

1113
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 3: does that make sense? Like he was using that same

1114
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 3: kind of charisma and a chance that you would use

1115
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 3: in like a church. There was to just pour all

1116
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 3: on means.

1117
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 2: And it was just you know, also, you get that

1118
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 2: really rock star energy with the young handsome guys in

1119
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 2: a church. I'm sorry, but you totally the older people

1120
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 2: worship them the younger and you're just like, oh my god, Ryan.

1121
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 2: I almost just called this guy Ryan Murphy that is

1122
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: the creator of Glee. I forgot his last name. We

1123
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: don't have to use that an American horror story. Yeah, okay,

1124
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 2: American horror story. Great. But you know, like I just

1125
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 2: remember everybody worshiped him like he was a professional football player,

1126
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: astronaut god, and so when he wanted to hook up basement,

1127
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 2: I was like, awesome.

1128
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it goes with anything, right, Like status

1129
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: and power just kind of inherently attract a certain personality

1130
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: type and also make it really easy for them to

1131
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: take advantage of people who are not yeah, like in

1132
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: their same power position. Right, And that, of course churches

1133
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: are not exempt from that. Holy shit, they are not.

1134
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, Holly, That's that's some good stuff. I mean,

1135
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 2: brothers in a fundamentalist church, that's that's different.

1136
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: I mean, are how do you how do you like,

1137
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: how have you processed the experience?

1138
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 2: How do you feel about now?

1139
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 3: Like?

1140
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: What? What are your thoughts on the whole thing?

1141
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 3: Looking back now? It really so. I guess the way

1142
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 3: it ended with the brother is I got older and

1143
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 3: went to like college out of state, and he kind

1144
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: of lost interest in me. And then when I came

1145
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 3: back and would like creep on him, he was, you know,

1146
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 3: twenty six, twenty seven, eight eight, and the girls he

1147
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 3: was dating and having children with stayed eighteen nineteen years old. God,

1148
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 3: I put it together in my head that, oh my god,

1149
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 3: this guy might not just be like a creep, He

1150
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: might be like a true to honest god pedophile in

1151
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 3: like that was why he was interested in me because

1152
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 3: I was like freshly legal.

1153
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: Not because I mean he was happing before you were legal.

1154
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh yeah, absolutely. And I always thought like, oh, well,

1155
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 3: it's close enough, right, because we were only like five

1156
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 3: to seven years afart. I can't really remember now, but

1157
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 3: when he started being like twenty seven twenty eight and

1158
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 3: the girls were still eighteen, I was like, oh, yeah,

1159
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 3: this isn't he likes a younger girl. This is he

1160
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 3: likes young girls.

1161
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 2: Right.

1162
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,479
Speaker 1: I feel like that's an important distinction because I feel

1163
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: like there are people I don't want to like paint

1164
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: it with a bridebrush. I do think that there are

1165
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: people who just like happen to fall in love with

1166
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: someone who's younger, Like I think that that happens.

1167
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 2: But when the guy continue used to get older and

1168
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 2: the girls.

1169
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: Continue to stay the same age, right, that is a pattern, right,

1170
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: That is a pattern of someone who like, yeah, I

1171
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: want someone who even if it's not pedophilia, they want

1172
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: someone who they can have a little bit of power over.

1173
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 2: Often it's what it seems to be. Yeah.

1174
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I will say the other brother, the one

1175
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 3: that I was like courting and wanted to marry originally,

1176
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 3: he did marry the next girl he dated, like straight up,

1177
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 3: like like when she graduated high school, like they did

1178
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,439
Speaker 3: like marry and still do the church thing and are

1179
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: like a nice little you know couple them like, So,

1180
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 3: I guess it does work for some people. I don't know.

1181
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: Where did you land with it?

1182
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 4: Like?

1183
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 2: Did you? Are you getting? Are you still I want

1184
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 2: to get married and I'm saving myself. I guess you

1185
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: don't have to answer that question, but where are you

1186
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 2: at with all of it?

1187
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 5: So?

1188
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 4: I am married.

1189
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 3: I feel like my best friend who is like super

1190
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 3: accepting of me, is who I am, who live in

1191
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 3: our hometown now because he's also from here. But we're

1192
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 3: much more of like the instead of being all in

1193
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 3: and involved, we're much more like the the hippies who

1194
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 3: hide out in the you know the country, right.

1195
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 2: That sounds good? I love that nice.

1196
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1197
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: So do you have any final thoughts on fundamentalism, purity culture,

1198
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: anything you'd say to someone who's like still kind of

1199
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 1: stuck in it?

1200
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, just to let go of like any of that

1201
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 3: guilt fear, shame that like an authoritarian like church or

1202
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 3: preacher or leader put into you, like that's not your fault,

1203
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 3: Like it's not your fault, your teenager, it's not your

1204
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 3: fault you like the older boy, it's not your fault

1205
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 3: if you like people of the same sect, you are

1206
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 3: not going to help for those things, even if it

1207
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 3: is a real Like That's the one thing I hope

1208
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 3: that I can do is just like anytime I see

1209
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 3: a young kid who's getting involved with church, is just

1210
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 3: being like, you don't need to get in, Like there

1211
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,919
Speaker 3: are great things from church, but there are also those

1212
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 3: really horrible, awful things, and I just don't think that

1213
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 3: helps young people at all.

1214
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

1215
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 3: There's so many better things to do, learn an instrument, you.

1216
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1217
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: If isn't church is great, if it is like improving

1218
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: your life, if it is adding something to your life,

1219
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: and if all that it's doing is bringing you shame

1220
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: and guilty, yeah, then maybe maybe time to look at

1221
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: another church or no church in my case.

1222
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 2: Thank you, Holly. Yeah, thanks so much for talking to us, Holly.

1223
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 7: Thank you guys.

1224
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 3: This is awesome.

1225
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:45,439
Speaker 2: Have a great rest of your day.

1226
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 4: Thanks bye bye.

1227
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: All right, Megan, time for your question. Yes, would you

1228
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: become a bus kid?

1229
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 2: I was horrifically bullied on the bus. True or false? True?

1230
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yes, it was true. Clearly I hate the bus.

1231
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 2: I would not become a bus kid. I am not

1232
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: the type of person that anyone on a bus will

1233
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 2: like A that be I don't want to go to church.

1234
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 2: It's crazy to me that people love going to church.

1235
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: I think it's actually so cute. And no, none of it. No,

1236
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 2: I'm not a bus kid. I don't like buses and

1237
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,439
Speaker 2: I don't like church, and I don't like being a kid.

1238
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 2: Don't saying I don't like kids. Okay, that's fair. Yeah,

1239
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 2: I'm remembering now.

1240
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: I took a bus growing up, and I feel like

1241
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 1: I was unhappy on the bus a lot.

1242
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 2: I don't think.

1243
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: I think I just felt like a loser. I don't

1244
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: think anyone actually bullied me. I just think I didn't

1245
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: have friends.

1246
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 2: I was walking to the back to sit with everyone,

1247
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: and one of the girls was like, you don't have

1248
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 2: to do this, oh no, And I was like, oh, okay,

1249
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 2: then I'll just sit down right in the ground, little megan. Yeah.

1250
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 2: And so then the most cool girl from the back

1251
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 2: came up and sat with me. And then every day

1252
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 2: I'd get on the bus and she'd get up and

1253
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 2: come and sit with me. Wait, okay, that was so

1254
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 2: dough great. We had the best time. And then she

1255
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 2: was like serving me at McDonald's seventeen years later, and

1256
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm getting out of the car. I

1257
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 2: love you. You have no idea who I am about?

1258
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:09,439
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1259
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 2: Wow, lots of stories about us today, Yeah, story day,

1260
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 2: story time. You know.

1261
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 1: When she was talking about the bus, my reaction was

1262
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: the opposite. I was like, Oh, this is a kind

1263
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: of church I could get on board with.

1264
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 2: Literally, Yeah, Lola, you are a bus church kid. And

1265
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 2: am I a bus ho? You're a bus ho. You're

1266
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 2: so enthusiastic about stuff like this as a child, you

1267
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 2: would be like waiting thirty minutes early carrying a satchel. Honestly, yes, yes,

1268
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, here's the thing. You get to see

1269
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 2: the world pass by, you.

1270
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: Get being in the car is like my favorite thing,

1271
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: like going on road trips?

1272
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 3: Right?

1273
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 2: Why not my favorite thing in a car though.

1274
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: Because someone else could be driving me in a car

1275
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 1: and I could have songs be sung while I'm in

1276
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: the car. But then, like the maybe not so much.

1277
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: I just basically want to be one of us, yeah,

1278
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: is what I'm saying.

1279
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 2: Okay, well yeah we can, we can do that. Okay.

1280
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: But it doesn't sound like that was a great environment

1281
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: for her, No, it does not.

1282
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. Do we have anything else in us?

1283
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:20,479
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we've really laid it all out today.

1284
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 2: I think so too. I think it's I think it's there.

1285
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 2: We've loved talking to you guys this week. We can't

1286
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 2: wait to talk to you next week. Remember follow your gut,

1287
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 2: watch out for red latts, and that never ever trust me.

1288
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 2: Bye bye