1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: It was like this idea of like going, where do 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: you contract in life? And what if you just said 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: e fit, you know, and it's not e fit like 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to go destroy a car. It's like efit. 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let the way I think other people 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: think about me interrupt this moment of my liberation and 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: freedom of life. 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 2: This is my legacy. Our conversation continues with doctor Scott Lyons, 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 2: clinical psychologist, body based trauma expert, and author of the 10 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 2: groundbreaking book Addicted to Drama If. Part one named the Addiction. 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: Part two asks a deeper question, what's the way out 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: from a culture fueled by urgency, outrage, and attention to 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: the loneliness epidemic hiding in plain sight? This chapter moves 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 2: from diagnosis to awakening to freedom. Let's dive in. 15 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 3: You know, Scott, you've talked about the difference between trauma 16 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: bonding and drama bonding and describe it as real support. 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 3: Is isn't someone who joined you in the storm. It's 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: someone who helps you find your way out of it. 19 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 3: Can you unpack that for us? 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm laughing because I'm seeing NICKI smile. Probably the 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: amount of times I'd try to rope her into my drama. 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: She could write her own book on it. Frankly, I 23 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: may not feel like Nicky's with me until she is 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: also activated and in the drama. And that's drama bonding. 25 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: And my niece told me I could tell the story. 26 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to say it was my niece in 27 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: the book, but I have she signed a contract with 28 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: me that I'm allowed to talk about it. She just 29 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: turned seventeen yesterday. 30 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 4: Ye yep. 31 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: So I remember this was a couple of years ago. 32 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: She came home from school and she was upset about 33 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: a teacher in a math class or something like that. 34 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: And you know, like, I can play uncle, I can 35 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: play therapist, I can do the mix. It's kind of 36 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: just who I am at this point. And I was like, 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: I wasn't. I was like, she is activated, she is spiraling, 38 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, this is really hard. She's 39 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: like he's the worst. And if I were to join 40 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: in and cheerleader, I'm like, yeah, he's the worst. We 41 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten to some level of regulation. And I 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: was like, I'm really sorry you had such a hard day, 43 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: and that's so unfair. I really get it. I'm not 44 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: raising my voice. I'm not changing my language too much 45 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: to join in. I'm keeping my own sense of self 46 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: and grounds. That's a level of stabilization or coregulation. Now 47 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: she left our conversation, I would say fifty percent more stabilized. 48 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: She goes away, she calls all her friends. They get 49 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: on a group zoom and I can hear them in 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: the other room trash talking this teacher and then just 51 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: throwing logs on my niece's fire, so to speak. And 52 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: she comes out and she's like, I'm quitting school. I'm 53 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: gonna sue them, I'm gonna do all this stuff. And 54 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: I was like, and my mom was there, and I 55 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: was like, Mom, what do I do? Like what do 56 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: we do? And she's like, just just ignorege, just let her, 57 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: let her burn the fire out, but don't join in. 58 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: And I was like, how do you know so much? 59 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, oh, you raised me. Oh 60 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: I feel so bad for you. But it was true. 61 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: I saw her eventually go out when she when there 62 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: were no more logs to put on her fire, but 63 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: they had they had created a bonfire in her room. 64 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: And that's that's drama bonding, right, and why I separated 65 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: drama bonding from trauma bonding is I think I was 66 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: seeing all of these social media posts about like trauma 67 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: bonding and I was like, No, what you don't understand 68 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: is that stress shared pain is a shared experience, right. 69 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: We are genetically designed to have empathetic responses from our 70 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: trauma to other people's trauma or our pain to their pain. 71 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: It creates a sense of closeness and proximity and if 72 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: you can just and and relationality helps heal the pain 73 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: and the trauma. So we if we're kind of like, 74 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, putting a negative spin on something we are 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: designed to do, then then most people are going to 76 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: be like, oh, I'm not going to talk about my 77 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: trauma with you, because that's trauma bonding. And it's like, 78 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: there's actually a really healthy way to do that where 79 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: we get to have shared experiences and shared process without 80 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: throwing logs on each other's fires. When it starts becoming that, 81 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: it's drama bonding, and that's a really from a psychological perspective, 82 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: an extraordinarily important discernment. 83 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 5: Nicole, You've seen Scott kind of weather these storms and 84 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 5: you know, kind of go in and out of so 85 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 5: much is there has there been any times that you 86 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 5: had to remind him of practicing what he preaches. 87 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 6: Scott is always pushing the envelope. I mean, if you 88 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 6: know Scott, you know that it's like, oh, swim with 89 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 6: the sharks, why not sharks and piranhas. So there's always 90 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 6: with Scott, there's always like a one upsmanship or like 91 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 6: a double dare, a triple dog dare coming coming up 92 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 6: on you. So I don't know, uh, you know, in 93 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 6: general we do laugh a lot about being addicted to drama. 94 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 6: I would say, yes, I have chided Scott with the 95 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 6: title of his book quite often, but in general, uh, 96 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 6: in general, I think that you know, the nature of 97 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 6: our relationship is that, you know, I'm definitely not afraid 98 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 6: to draw draw the sword and get into the fencing 99 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 6: match with Scott about whatever crazy idea he has or 100 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 6: whatever proposal, or if he's you know, having a dramatic 101 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 6: situation or calls me with something wild that happened, you know, 102 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 6: I'm not afraid to push back. 103 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: When you've known each someone for twenty five years, that 104 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: you're going to go through so many arcs of what 105 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,119 Speaker 1: it is to be alive. And you know, I think 106 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: one of the things I can come back to all 107 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: the time with NICKI is that play and silliness is 108 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: still here in the world, Like even in the darkest days, 109 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: even in the most painful experiences, like there is some 110 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: levity that is possible. And it's not like we're overriding 111 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: the pain. It's just that it's just the levity is 112 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: also medicine. 113 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,559 Speaker 6: And I have a story about that levity. It doesn't 114 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 6: matter where he is, what's going on in his life, 115 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 6: what's happening in the world. You know, Scott can bring 116 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 6: the party and the levity that you were talking about 117 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 6: in the sense of play. I'll never forget. Also the 118 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 6: time that we were trapped in New York in that 119 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 6: rain storm and I had just moved to New York 120 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 6: and it was like we were just like the day 121 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 6: was ruined, you know, my whole look was ruined. And 122 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 6: you were like, let's just dance and sing in the 123 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 6: rain and then we're gonna strip down into our underwear 124 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 6: and we're gonna we're gonna parade into the apartment and 125 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 6: we're gonna have a dance party. And I was like, 126 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 6: are you sure we're going to do that? And so 127 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 6: it's like, Okay, this thing happened, but how can we 128 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 6: see it from another perspective? 129 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: Right? 130 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 6: And so I think that's also another kaleidoscope lends to 131 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 6: bring to drama, because of course there's the light in 132 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 6: the dark of what drama is. And I think that, 133 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 6: you know, we spent a lot of time talking about, 134 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 6: you know, things about drama that are quite weighty and 135 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 6: quite negative. However, the drama, the little sprinkle of magic 136 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 6: can bring the right spice. 137 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 5: Let us all go out in the rain naked and 138 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 5: have a dance and have a dance party. You're welcome, America. 139 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: And the person I was seeing at that time, because 140 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: we really stripped off all of our clothes in this, 141 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: I don't doubt it, and then ran to my apartment building. 142 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: And Nichols also being but a bit modest, I didn't 143 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: have underwear on. 144 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 6: See, like I'm saying, he always up. 145 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: But I lived in in the you know, a townhouse 146 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: in New York, so no one was going to see 147 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: me run up the stairs. So there was no like 148 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: fear of like exposure to something. And but we ran 149 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: into my apartment where my partner, my then partner, was staying, 150 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: and I guess he found it quite strange. I mean 151 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: I even look back at that now, Nick, you know, 152 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: it was like, oh, what a lovely story. But I 153 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: think most people listening to this would be like that's 154 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: wild or that's crazy. When I went to undergrad, I 155 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: was in one of my degrees, was in acting, and 156 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: that one of our teachers had this saying said, I'm 157 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: not going to say the word, but ef it and 158 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: and it was like this this idea of like going, 159 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: where do you contract in life? 160 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 6: Like? 161 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: And and what if you just said e f it, 162 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, and it's not ef it like I'm going 163 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: to go destroy a car. It's like ef it. I'm 164 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: not going to let the way I think other people 165 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: think about me interrupt this moment in my own liberation 166 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: and freedom of life. I'm writing about this story in 167 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: my my my current book then finishing up. And you know, 168 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: I was, I was. I was a dancer. Then I 169 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: was walking down the street in New York City the 170 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: first time I ever applied the effort rule. And I 171 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: looked down and I had a transparent, transparent laundry bask 172 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: bag and so and I noticed that like all my underwear, 173 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: my like my dance belt, all the like sort of 174 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: like intimacy, intimate underwears were showing, and I felt so 175 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: much shame, you know, as I was walking down the 176 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: streets of New York City, and I was like, fit, 177 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: what if I'm on a runway? And I walked to 178 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: the laundry at like I was on America's Next Top 179 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: Model instead, And I just felt so liberated, and I 180 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: was like, I don't care what people think about my underwear, 181 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: Like I'm a human being. And it was and so 182 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: like the rain moment was an effet moment, Scott. 183 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 4: When you look at this philosophy of how you live 184 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 4: your life, yeah, and you look at how you help 185 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 4: coach people, like you created the embody Lab, like this 186 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 4: is the largest online training platform for body based you know, 187 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 4: trauma therapy. We live in a world where. 188 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 7: Our listeners and viewers they're checking their phones, they're flooded 189 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 7: with information. And you wrote everything you're looking at, reading, 190 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 7: hearing you have a physiological reaction too, Yeah, and so 191 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 7: can you help us understand, like, if we are really 192 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 7: going to do the work, if we're going to really 193 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 7: go into our trauma journey, how do we make sure 194 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 7: we're not only doing this in the mind, but we're 195 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 7: doing this in the body. 196 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: So and you name the sort of the line that 197 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: everything we see, everything we do, everything we witness and 198 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: is something that then is mirrored in our physiology. Right, 199 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: we see a stick on the floor and we think 200 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: it's a snake. We feel that in our physiology. It's 201 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: not just a perception or mind shift, you know, or 202 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: a mind mirage. We actually have this physiological response preparing 203 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: us to run from danger, you know, truly understanding that 204 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: we are in an endemic of drama. All the circumstances 205 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: that make an individual likely to become addicted to drama 206 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: we are experiencing on a mass level. 207 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: Right. 208 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: So the fact that we are more lonely than we 209 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: ever have been as a culture, right, it is the 210 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: number one reason for death is loneliness. It is it 211 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: has greater physiological challenges and complications than smoking a pack 212 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: of cigarettes per day. Loneliness. Right, And it's not just 213 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: like loneliness comes out of nowhere. We're on our phones, 214 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: we're on computers, we're on screens all day. We don't 215 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: know how to even talk to each other like in 216 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: the good old days before all this, Right, we use 217 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: emojis instead of expressing with words, which has a significant 218 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: process Like it did, it reduces our emotional language skills, right, 219 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: and I love them emoji, so no, no, no shame there, 220 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: but it does. And so we've truncated so many of 221 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: our abilities to actually be in relationship and the impact 222 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: of that is significant, and we are so we are 223 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: more lonely as a culture. We need and so the 224 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: pain of that, what's called isolation pain, is so great 225 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: in our culture. What we think of is like what's 226 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: called auto regulating. We are numbing out the pain with 227 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: some other mechanism. Usually it's screen time, right, Sometimes it's drinking, 228 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: sometimes it's other things. But you know, all of these 229 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: are so easily accessible. And the other big thing is 230 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: our attention is being taken away from us and constantly 231 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: pulled into other ads and other you know, notifications on 232 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: our phone and what and so what we're in is 233 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: what we call a attentional economy. So whoever holds and 234 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: captures your attention is the victor of capitalism, right, And 235 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: the mechanism to capture and maintain your attention is to 236 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: induce a stress response. And so with capitalism is based 237 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:11,119 Speaker 1: on what is actually an activation economy. Or a stress economy. 238 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: Then we are all in an ecosystem of constantly being 239 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: in that process of stressed and in a rat race 240 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: of trying to get attention no matter what the cost is, 241 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: in an ecosystem of loneliness. So it is the grounds 242 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: to which an addiction to drama is based on, and 243 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: we're constantly being fed images on a scale we have 244 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: not evolved to be able to metabolize. So there's a 245 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: study that showed after the Boston bombing that those who 246 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: were watched six hours or more, which is not much 247 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: because based that's on your phone, that's on a screen, 248 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: that's even talking about it, those who watched or were 249 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: exposed to six hours or more of content around the 250 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: Boston bombing had more severe symptoms of PTSD post traumatic 251 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: stress disorder than those who were there. Wow, I was there. 252 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: I saw the plane go in on nine to eleven. 253 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: I was downtown. I was outside walking to school. 254 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 6: Right. 255 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: I never have seen a single clip of it. I couldn't. 256 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: I didn't want to. My parents were glued to their 257 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: television for days and days as a means to stay 258 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: connected with me. When I bring up nine to eleven, 259 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: I see my mom's face swell up a tears and 260 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: then she turns white. Right, the severity of the information 261 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: and we are turn on your Instagram right now, go 262 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: ahead and look at in your feed. What is the imagery? 263 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: You are literally being fed and I mean fed into 264 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: your body. We must learn our pausing point of overstimulation. 265 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: We are overstimulated and under mobilized. When I talked before 266 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: about like why the body is so important, we need 267 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: a vehicle to move the level of activation and emotion through. 268 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: We are more static as a culture. We're spending how 269 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: many hours? Go ahead and check your phone log? How 270 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: many hours are you on your screen? How many hours 271 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: are you on the television. This is not to shame you, 272 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: It's just to say that we are not then as 273 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: a culture, are not mobilizing the amount of information we 274 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: are taking in, and we are drowning in overstimulation, and 275 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: that creates more inability to connect right, which creates more loneliness. 276 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: So we we are overstimulated and it has severe consequences 277 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: and there's not a lot of ways out until we 278 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: start to be able to register our own pause point. 279 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: But we can't because our at tension is constantly being 280 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: stolen in and usurped from us by this attentional activation economy. 281 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: So we're in this cycle of more and more and 282 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: more and boredom, right, is actually a symptom of not 283 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: being stimulated, because underneath the boredom, if you can hang 284 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: out at enough time, you will likely feel some level 285 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: of anxiety, because that's what's underneath the boredom and the 286 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: absence of stimulus. The symptom, like in any like an 287 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: the behavioral addiction, the absence of the drug, the absence 288 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: of the drama, the absence of the stimulus evokes a distress, 289 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: an anxiety, or what's known as a withdrawal symptom, and 290 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: so we go get more to get out of the 291 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: anxiety or the pain of the withdrawal. 292 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 5: You can go, you can go. Old school parenting, we 293 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 5: learned quickly growing up at home not to say I'm bored, 294 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 5: because first of all, I love Therese. I never was bored. 295 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 5: But if you said that in our house, I'm bored, yeah, 296 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 5: my mom would guarantee you say, oh you're bored, I 297 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 5: will give you and she would like go clean out 298 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 5: the garage. And it wasn't like a suggestion list. It 299 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 5: became a to do list. You know, oh, okay, the 300 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 5: garage needs cleaning. Oh you know there's you know, go 301 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 5: reak the yard like there was never like then, Like 302 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 5: so there's this understanding almost that yeah, if you know, 303 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 5: if you're saying that, then you need some type of 304 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 5: physical stimulation and movement. And you know, you have a 305 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 5: seventeen year old niece and how this this it the 306 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 5: eternal question of social media young people. We're talking about 307 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 5: processing and proceeds. Like, so, what suggestion or advice do 308 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 5: you have for all of us that have children teens? 309 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 5: How do we what's the suggestion for them navigating? 310 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: So I used to be really firm with my suggestions 311 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: and then my sister taught me more humility about being 312 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: a parent. And you know, so as a research scientist, 313 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: I can say one thing and then you kind of 314 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: have to come back and be a human being and 315 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: be like, well, what's actually possible? So I mean, like 316 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: we can go on for another hour just about like 317 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: the what you know, cell phone, what you know phones, 318 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: and that overstimulation does to the circadian rhythm, the sleep patterns, 319 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: the brain waves of someone before they go through puberty, 320 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 1: which is pretty severe, very severe where we see you know, 321 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: like three x four x depression since since teens have 322 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: gotten their hands on phones and other another anxiety, et cetera, 323 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: let alone the what's called the mimicking effect where they're 324 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: watching other kids in the dress on social media and 325 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: starting to mimic that because the other folks are getting likes. 326 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: It's wild out there, right, So you know, my suggestion 327 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: would be like, no social media until after puberty is 328 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: what the research says. That's not fully possible for so 329 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: many parents. And I want to just be really like 330 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: empathetic to that. So it's like, what is the bare 331 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: minimum we can work with? Is it like, how about 332 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes a day? And how are we balancing that 333 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: out with a lot of play and synchronistic experiences like 334 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: where we're sharing meals together and there's no television plane 335 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: where we're taking walks together as like parents and kids 336 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: or kids and kids. So it's not reliant that they're 337 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: the majority of their day is not on either the 338 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: stimulation or metabolic the stimulation maybe breaking down all of 339 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: that information that's beautiful. 340 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might 341 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 4: tap that button and stay connected to conversations that kempt. 342 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 5: I have a question because the four of us, Martin, myself, 343 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 5: Craig and his brother Mark, we actually have an initiative 344 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 5: called Realize the Dream. Oh my goodness, we have so 345 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 5: many wonderful partners like All State that are really going 346 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 5: into communities and helping us have one hundred million hours 347 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 5: of service by Martin Luther King Junior's one hundredth birthday. Amazing, 348 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 5: But it is born out of the fact that we 349 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 5: were seeing, as it relates to, because we started this 350 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 5: initiative three years ago, how disconnected we are with each 351 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 5: other and with ourselves. Mark Father's last book is entitled 352 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 5: where do we go from here? Chaos or Community? And 353 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 5: I don't know anyone who is living today that has 354 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 5: not felt, certainly within the last six years that they 355 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 5: were impacted by chaos in some way. And we see 356 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 5: that service as a way of rebuilding community, building the 357 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 5: groundwork then for the beloved community and connection. Can you 358 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 5: just talk a little bit of how do you think 359 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 5: that connection In some ways, connection and service are a 360 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 5: pathway for healing. 361 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, they are significantly, And I want to discern, like 362 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: when we talk about connection, there's qualities of connection and 363 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: a lot of our sense of connection currently is asynchronistically 364 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: meaning online we're not in proximity to each other, we're 365 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: not doing activity where maybe texting or leaving voice notes 366 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: or code doom scrolling next to each other or whatever 367 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: that is. And so we you know, when we talk 368 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: about connection in community, it is about shared purpose, meaning 369 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: and activity, an activity that often has some type of 370 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: mobile mobility to it, whether it's talking or moving or 371 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: food sharing, things like this that are really what our 372 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: physiology is wired to understand as true connection. And service 373 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: is such a beautiful vehicle for actually deepening connectivity. And 374 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: then as you deepen connectivity, you then have more of 375 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: a shared meaning as a group and are able to 376 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: further invest in the service that you have and you 377 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: can feel it more. That's that's the interesting research on 378 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: it too, is that we can sort of fake it 379 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: till we make it, and we will make it as 380 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: a group. Like as you invest your time, focused energy, 381 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: and then the collective experience of going in and doing 382 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: service work, you might feel like, Okay, I'm just doing it. 383 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: I'm just kind of doing it because I have to 384 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: fill these hours up right, or because someone my pastor 385 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: told me to or my Rabbi told me to, or 386 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: someone else suggested that, or Scott said, you know, said 387 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: the science of doing service work makes youre better, it 388 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: creates more well being, which it does, but that's not embodied. 389 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: But there is something really interesting that as we lean 390 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: into it, and as we lean into it and it 391 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: creates this group rhythm of action, we start to feel 392 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: it more and we start to feel a sense of 393 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: greater purpose and meaning because of that, and that does 394 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: start to interrupt the needing to find crisis and chaos 395 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: and stress and other things to mitigate the lack of 396 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: loneliness that is so pervasive in so many of us, 397 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: which is often the root of the pain that we 398 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: are trying to numb with addictions. 399 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 3: Nicole, What's something Scott has taught you that you now 400 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: carry into your own work or relationships. 401 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 6: Something that has really affected me kind of in trying 402 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 6: times is the ability to find a slice of humor 403 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 6: and find a slice of like, oh, how could you 404 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 6: do it your way? I have seen Scott rise from 405 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 6: the ashes time and time again and reinvent and change 406 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 6: and seeing all those transformations and seeing the success and 407 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 6: just seeing unwavering determination for whatever goal. Scott is trying 408 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 6: to achieve has really sort of you know, given me 409 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 6: the freedom to not only make changes in my life, 410 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 6: but also make changes and make decisions with a little 411 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 6: bit more sort of slam dunk if you will, with 412 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,719 Speaker 6: like do it your way. It's okay. You can be louder, 413 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 6: you can be wilder, you can be sassier, you can 414 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 6: take a risk. Why not. 415 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 5: What has been so beautiful to watch is every time 416 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 5: when you're talking, literally Scott is looking at you with 417 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 5: such love and adoration, like it's like just genuine, genuine love. 418 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 5: So it's it was really beautiful to see that when 419 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 5: you're talking his love for you. 420 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: I think, you know, as I've gotten older, I've really 421 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: really appreciate the memory keepers of our lives, of my life, 422 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: and it's like it's not easy for you know, as 423 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: parents disappear or as away, or siblings drift or whatever, 424 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: you know, like there's a lot I don't remember about 425 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: my life and had that shared experience with someone else, 426 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: to have spent so much time together, like and I 427 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: call these people the memory keepers. In the moments where 428 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: I am I don't know who I am anymore. And 429 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: I hope we all get to experience at least a 430 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: couple of those. It's really nice to be like, have 431 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: it a checkpoint with someone, like someone that says, well, 432 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: Scotty you you know, yeah, maybe this relationship didn't work out, 433 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: but you know, ten years ago you would have never 434 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: been able to say no to someone and stand up 435 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: for yourself. Or remember how the first time we met 436 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: and you couldn't carry a song, like carry a note 437 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: to save your life. And then somehow you like basically 438 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: did Broadway, and you know, like, look how far you 439 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: know that, Look how far you've come, or or at 440 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: the time or the same way, it's like or you 441 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: could come a little further, and you know, I really 442 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: it's it's And I also realized, I don't think I've 443 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: ever been in an environment with Nicki where I've I've 444 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: simultaneously gotten to talk about my like playful life, but 445 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: also in my professional life. There's a there's a level 446 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: of like my professional life that is like, you know, 447 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: talking about my research, like NICKI and I have talked 448 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: about my book, but it's it's like my answers for 449 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: like a podcast are a little bit more refined and 450 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: more filtered, despite what NICKI might say and so it's 451 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: like it's this really also this very interesting experience to 452 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: like welcome her into another aspect of my life. 453 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 4: I love you knowing the two of you speak, and Scott, 454 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 4: you bicked the most beautiful plus one guest to bring up. 455 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 4: And I love because the friendship embodies the very message 456 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 4: of your professional work. You know, you have been together 457 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 4: through the trauma, bonding, the addictions, the challenges, and you've 458 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 4: been together through the positive, uplifting drama, the dancing in 459 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 4: the rain, the stripping down literally and figurably to come 460 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 4: together through friendships and to embody. And I love because 461 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 4: as we've gone through your life journey, you know, the 462 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 4: two of you have been this beautiful echo showing that 463 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 4: pain can lead to purpose, that rock bottom is at 464 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 4: the end, it's often the beginning that you know, Nicole, 465 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 4: you've reminded us all what real friendship looks like, to 466 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 4: stand by friends through hard time, through storms, but to 467 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 4: always be there with love. And Scott, your incredible work 468 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 4: has touched and uplifted so many individuals, holding us sometimes 469 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 4: hard mirror but always asking them to reach deep down 470 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 4: inside it to be their best selves. And so thank 471 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 4: you to both of you as we say on this journey. 472 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 4: For living your legacies and for sharing them with all 473 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 4: of us today. Thank you so much, thank you, thank you, 474 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 4: thank you, thank you, thank. 475 00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: You so much. 476 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us. New episodes drop every Tuesday. 477 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 2: Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a moment.