Speaker 1: Someone was talking about uh, talking about Champagne Supernova on
Speaker 1: Twitter today and I was like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: Like it's a great songs.
Speaker 2: It's about the songs I never heard of, you know
Speaker 2: what exactly. I'm not going to defend those because I
Speaker 2: don't know, but the ones I know that they came
Speaker 2: at a good time in my life. Yeah. Yeah, shout
Speaker 2: out to Oasis back when you had to buy a
Speaker 2: whole album for two songs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's only twenty dollars.
Speaker 2: Whoa where were you going the warehouse? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was going to wear I was going to Sam Goodie.
Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah we had a Sam Goodie by.
Speaker 3: Oh hey, sis is that something?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Oh you're an Oasis scriptwriting to establish a
Speaker 3: new character.
Speaker 2: Oh hey, his eyes light up. We was gonna cool
Speaker 2: the band?
Speaker 1: Oh a brov but oh I sees yeah, ohis we
Speaker 1: met Belle Hooks and go.
Speaker 2: Into black feminism? Yeah? Oh, sister, I said, wait a second,
Speaker 2: wait why a moumy white? Why? Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: The thing is they all have like a Manchester accent,
Speaker 1: Like I'm supposed to know what the fuck that is.
Speaker 3: It's hard, like comes the nerve of them talking about
Speaker 3: that accent that.
Speaker 2: Hey, what's up, pal? You want to get freaking wasted? Bro?
Speaker 2: Go to the pack? Yeah, there we go. It is
Speaker 2: that's Manchester by the Sea, I think, Yeah, that's a
Speaker 2: different Manchester.
Speaker 3: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three point fifty two,
Speaker 3: episode two of Dirt as production of iHeart Radio. This
Speaker 3: is the podcast where were taking deep dive into American
Speaker 3: chair consciousness. And it is Tuesday, August twenty seventh, twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four, which of course means it's the day that
Speaker 3: we find out if Oasis is actually getting back together.
Speaker 2: First of all, still don't fucking know f.
Speaker 3: Eight twenty four. What the fuck is that? Just a
Speaker 3: random assortment of numbers.
Speaker 2: There's no fucking twenty seventh month, You fucking weirdos, you fools.
Speaker 2: Oh they did it euro style anyway. Today, if it
Speaker 2: isn't Oasis Reunion Day, it is National po de crem Day.
Speaker 2: Shout out to another wonderful dessert dish, and also shout
Speaker 2: out Georgia because it's National peach Day. Yeah yeah, get
Speaker 2: The summer is the time the window is shortening for
Speaker 2: good pitches for people who go and frequent the farmers market.
Speaker 3: Probably the highest ratio of like how good it gets
Speaker 3: during in season versus like how good it is out season?
Speaker 2: Oh, any anything? Currently, like it's any months months render
Speaker 2: some of the sweetest legion peach. I can eat a
Speaker 2: peach for hours.
Speaker 3: To quote castor Troy and a face off Jesus, Oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: And then I think they like isolate that to try
Speaker 3: and get his voice, and so you hear him say
Speaker 3: it like twenty times, and now it's stuck in my head.
Speaker 3: And sometimes I'll just say it under my breath.
Speaker 2: And my wife will be like, what I like, not said,
Speaker 2: I wish said beach had showers. Beach, I wish it's
Speaker 2: beach had showers. Anyways, my name is Jack O'Brien AKA.
Speaker 3: They rally round the JD with the dixie cup of
Speaker 3: cum that is courtesy.
Speaker 2: Of Blackrony on the discord.
Speaker 3: Shout out to you, Shout out to the Republicans with
Speaker 3: their little dixie cup.
Speaker 2: With j D com where they were like, got them,
Speaker 2: got them? What is that? Now he's weird.
Speaker 3: I'm still fucking you guys, so strange. Anyways, I'm thrilled
Speaker 3: to be joined as always by my co host, mister
Speaker 3: Miles Grass.
Speaker 2: It's Miles Gray. With a belly still full of Dodger dogs.
Speaker 2: It's the Lord of Lancersham and the show Gun with
Speaker 2: no gun. Miles Gray, thank you so much for just a.
Speaker 3: Whole bag of them just down there right.
Speaker 2: I was content, cargo pants on. I was thinking of
Speaker 2: shamelessly just taking filling my pockets, my cargo pants pockets
Speaker 2: with hot dogs with dogs throwing out because yeah, no buns,
Speaker 2: just the dogs loose.
Speaker 3: Brice takes them down like Kobe Ashi, breaks them in
Speaker 3: back and then just dips the bun in water. Yeah yeah, Miles,
Speaker 3: we are thrilled to that voice saying no buns. His
Speaker 3: famous catchphrase is one of our favorite guests. Very funny
Speaker 3: comedian the host of the podcast The Frontcast, Pod Yourself
Speaker 3: with Gun, Pod Yourself, The Wire, and his latest podcast,
Speaker 3: Bad Hasbara, which happens to be the most moral pod
Speaker 3: cast in existence and of all time. Please welcome one
Speaker 3: of the funniest people doing it anywhere.
Speaker 2: It's Matt said Baby. Francesca and Matt Lee got a
Speaker 2: baby and after she came from ball what's up?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: That wasn't that was your birth announcement?
Speaker 1: Yes, that's how I announced to everyone that my baby
Speaker 1: was born. And she came from my balls.
Speaker 2: Like, thanks, we didn't we know in case people were like,
Speaker 2: cause you wanted to say, is that your baby? Yeah?
Speaker 2: From your ball?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, from both from my ball, one ball single yeah,
Speaker 1: although I mean it's only one sperm, so brilliant.
Speaker 2: Only came from one burn, one ball, one burn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the balls. You never know left not
Speaker 1: a right nut. That's the thing about it.
Speaker 2: It's it's like, uh, you know the way uh, if
Speaker 2: you're left handed or right handed, that's how you know
Speaker 2: which ball. That's how you know.
Speaker 1: It's like a firing squad. You know, everyone shoots, but
Speaker 1: no one knows who's actually got a real bullet and
Speaker 1: who's got a bully right.
Speaker 3: And that is what I used to when I was
Speaker 3: a bully. Instead of saying head or gut, I would
Speaker 3: say left nut or right nut?
Speaker 1: Which one do you want me to justing when I
Speaker 1: was a bully, when I was.
Speaker 3: Gut.
Speaker 2: You know, I was a big time bully man. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, which shoelace do you want? Untied loser
Speaker 2: and bully sick bully ship I was doing. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like good will hunting.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, yeah, Jack O'Brien made me choose the
Speaker 1: ranch at a belt. I said both because fuck him
Speaker 1: nets Why.
Speaker 2: You know what I said, flick both my nuts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, flick both my nuts. I wish I could. I
Speaker 1: can't really do the act.
Speaker 2: No, that was perfect. I have it. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna be.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be reading Gordon Wood, regagitating Gordon Wood, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you like them apples? All right?
Speaker 3: When you're gonna read Zin and it's gonna blow your
Speaker 3: hair back and it's like everybody's rich in by Okay.
Speaker 2: Not everyone? Hey man, what what up? Though? It's great
Speaker 2: to have you.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be back. I love you guys.
Speaker 1: You know, love love talking to you guys about stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're gonna talk to you about your podcast.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah, okay in the stadium at the moment. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what is it? That's that's the only question I've got
Speaker 2: written down? Yeah, what is it? What does that mean?
Speaker 2: And is it bad?
Speaker 3: I mean your title says it, but is it like
Speaker 3: bad like the Michael Jackson album title?
Speaker 2: Yeah, is it bad? That means good?
Speaker 4: Imagine redo that album cover is bbing it? And Yahoo
Speaker 4: with the changes that ship. I'm gonna make that on
Speaker 4: my phone right now.
Speaker 3: Wasn't I a miss at the time, or were people
Speaker 3: like all right, let's see where he's going with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just remember as a kid, I was so
Speaker 2: stoked because I was like, yo, let's need to like it.
Speaker 2: Fulled my ass. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 3: Yes, this is the most I've ever liked an album.
Speaker 2: Is how much I like that album When it dropped,
Speaker 2: I couldn't name. I'm trying to think of what were
Speaker 2: the other good songs on that album, because I think
Speaker 2: I put on.
Speaker 3: A concert of that in my neighborhood, just me and
Speaker 3: my friend lip syncing two songs that we didn't really
Speaker 3: know the words.
Speaker 1: Are you ever bought Michael Jackson album before? So I
Speaker 1: don't know what his albums are all the way through.
Speaker 1: I only know, like you know, the hits, but there's
Speaker 1: so many hits that it's like.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this, yeah, okay, because I'm definitely I'm like Tiler, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know the way you make me feel. That's on
Speaker 2: Smooth Criminal leave Me Alone Alone?
Speaker 3: That video I thought that was off Dangerous leave Me Alone,
Speaker 3: the one where he's like going, he's on the ride.
Speaker 2: It's on the bad rematched I'm looking at the bad.
Speaker 2: I thought it was too but that was off dangerous man. Anyway,
Speaker 2: off the walls.
Speaker 3: As before we get to it, though, Matt, we do
Speaker 3: like to get to know our guests a little bit
Speaker 3: better by asking them, what's your favorite Michael Jackson album? Now,
Speaker 3: what's your What's something from your search history that is
Speaker 3: revealing about who you are?
Speaker 2: Sure? How to fix a car? D I y, So.
Speaker 3: That seems specific enough to me. I think I think
Speaker 3: that was probably a successful search.
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, no, it all worked out. I eventually
Speaker 1: got there to what I was actually asking was how
Speaker 1: come my engine keeps overheating? Yeah, and the answer was
Speaker 1: I don't know. Man, could be a lot of things
Speaker 1: where so so YouTube was very helpful in that. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: that's that's the most recent thing.
Speaker 3: That was Google A at a certain point, Yeah, just
Speaker 3: lost all confidence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was it really.
Speaker 1: It's as it turns out, you guys, there's a reason why,
Speaker 1: you know, mechanics are get paid so much. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: because they, like they know about cars and stuff. You
Speaker 1: think you can like, I'm overconfident enough that I'm like
Speaker 1: I could learn this from YouTube. Videos, right, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it turns out you can't. It turns out, I mean
Speaker 1: you can, but not without doing more damage to your
Speaker 1: your car than you would have if you had just
Speaker 1: taken it somewhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the door once. Oh I could do
Speaker 2: that from YouTube.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay it it almost closed all the way.
Speaker 2: Oh that's good. Okay, okay, the door was the wrong size. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that ship down. You shaved it down and it was
Speaker 2: crooked as fuck and it closed almost.
Speaker 1: You can learn a lot of things on YouTube, so
Speaker 1: I was like, I bet I could also learn why
Speaker 1: why come my car keep overheating?
Speaker 2: And it turns out fucking can't? Dude. Wait, this is
Speaker 2: I remember a little bit of insight because I have
Speaker 2: we talked on the and this is the car that
Speaker 2: you had to retrieve from up north.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that I just got back from up north selling.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah right, so you had you drove up there
Speaker 2: it broke down, but then you had to get back down.
Speaker 2: You swapped out a car with like a family friend
Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah I had to go back up again
Speaker 2: you to deal with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I took Francesca's mom's car back to LA
Speaker 1: so that I could like be around for the baby,
Speaker 1: and then I just drove it back up and then
Speaker 1: dealt with my car by selling it to car Max,
Speaker 1: which is like it sounds from that you're just like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: problem solved. You don't understand how awful this entire experience
Speaker 1: has been. Like I just slept probably eleven hours in
Speaker 1: a row, and not because I didn't get enough sleep
Speaker 1: the other two nights. It was literally I was just
Speaker 1: so relieved to have everything done that my body was
Speaker 1: just like we're gonna shut down, Like some of our
Speaker 1: organs haven't been resting for about a month. So it
Speaker 1: was very stressful. But that's literally all of my overrated, underrated.
Speaker 1: Everything you're gonna ask me is about this fucking car.
Speaker 2: Car Yeah, perfect, and the overheating. It's like why your
Speaker 2: baby have a fever? Like it's just like I don't know, man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's literally yeah yeah, because there's like a thousand things.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, they have all this like diagnostic equipment,
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, nobody figured it out.
Speaker 1: They went to the mechanics three times and everyone was
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know, man, Like usually I can make something up
Speaker 2: to get your money, but like right, fucking confound. I
Speaker 2: don't say this, I'm confounded.
Speaker 1: Well, the West part was that they actually every time
Speaker 1: they gave it back to me, they said, okay, problem solved.
Speaker 2: The problem was not solved. It was just smoke. Billow
Speaker 2: handed you the key. Yeah it was bad. It was bad. Look,
Speaker 2: usually I make something up, but you look like a
Speaker 2: man who's watched three to four YouTube videos all the
Speaker 2: way through.
Speaker 1: I can tell you know a thing or two about
Speaker 1: cars from watching this guy on YouTube who has a
Speaker 1: very thick Boston accent.
Speaker 2: So therefore it knows about cars. You know, these guys,
Speaker 2: what is something you think is underrated?
Speaker 1: Underrated? I'll tell you what's underrated, you guys. The meter
Speaker 1: on your car that says H and C with the
Speaker 1: with the okay, so yeah, okay. So as it turns out,
Speaker 1: H and C is hot and cold. And the second
Speaker 1: thing is, that's not a sailboat, you guys. That is
Speaker 1: like that, that's a thermometer. Yeah okay, yeah, So I
Speaker 1: wish they had made that more clear because the CH
Speaker 1: and C part, I've always been like, oh no, look
Speaker 1: it looks like I'm I'm full on h that must
Speaker 1: be good.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, it's giving me a sailing report. It
Speaker 2: must be for high c's or yeah, smooth sailing. Oh
Speaker 2: the way to God. I don't know why I get
Speaker 2: the sailing report on my dashboard here. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It turns out that is a meter that tells you
Speaker 1: how hot engine is, and so that's honestly one of
Speaker 1: the most important things on your dashboard.
Speaker 2: People think it's the thing that says f.
Speaker 1: Or or ease turn out because yeah, you can like
Speaker 1: fill up gas and stuff, but heat.
Speaker 2: Don't pay attention to that one either, But go ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that heat meter is real. That's real important. It's
Speaker 1: a hot cold yeah. Yeah, and it's very underrated because
Speaker 1: you just think it's like I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll let the I'll let the scientists deal with that number.
Speaker 2: It's like the check engine light, like you check engine. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I treat that check engine light sometimes like my car
Speaker 2: is trying to scam me. Yeah, you're just trying to
Speaker 2: get my Yeah. Yeah, No, I don't care if all
Speaker 2: of my tires are flat. I want them all to
Speaker 2: have five pounds of pressure in each tire. Okay, it
Speaker 2: helps attract I love the.
Speaker 1: Check engine light because it's like you do want to
Speaker 1: bring it in, but only because you turn that light off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, They're like, no, man, you're cooling just all fucked up.
Speaker 2: Have you seen the H and the CE too. I
Speaker 2: don't know, dude. I tried full on H all the time.
Speaker 2: I'm always putting a lot of H in the car.
Speaker 3: But I have one tire that consistently gets low and
Speaker 3: guess what I do. I keep filling it back up,
Speaker 3: the bag up and everything every whack.
Speaker 2: This is how I know where the same fucking person
Speaker 2: tell me why I got the same I was screw
Speaker 2: in one of my tires that is causing a slow leak.
Speaker 2: But part of me is like, if I could, there's
Speaker 2: a homing up the street, wh will pass that ship
Speaker 2: for thirty bucks? Like I just want it? And he's
Speaker 2: like boo boom boom. He's like, now get on. In
Speaker 2: my mind, I'm like, yeah, but what I really need
Speaker 2: is a new set of tires. So I'm waiting for
Speaker 2: the indicators to get worn down, so I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna swap out new tires. And I'm also currently
Speaker 2: doing the thing where I fill it up every week.
Speaker 2: And the guy knows me because like I'll buy a
Speaker 2: bottle of water inside the gas station. I'm like, yo, broken,
Speaker 2: you just charge me for the gas because don't have
Speaker 2: seventy five cents and coins And he's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I gotcha, yeah from the desk. It was something I den'ty.
Speaker 2: I hate. I hate when they pretend they can't right
Speaker 2: out of my hand. It's like, oh you want me, sir.
Speaker 1: You got to buy something and then we'll do cash
Speaker 1: back and then get changed. And it's like, I know
Speaker 1: you have a button mother, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know your fingers on it, dude, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're caressing it by donut.
Speaker 3: You're dramatically caressing it.
Speaker 2: Have you ever done that, gone into a gas station
Speaker 2: and do like a gilt purchase, like because you're gonna
Speaker 2: ask for something. I every time I've done that, for
Speaker 2: some reason, I buy the worst fucking thing in the store.
Speaker 2: Like I somehow find the dustiest item in the gas
Speaker 2: station mart and I'm like, yeah, these spicy old coated peanuts,
Speaker 2: sure good man, And they're like, dude, really and they
Speaker 2: so much dust. I don't know why I have like
Speaker 2: a X men power to find like the oldest thing
Speaker 2: in a gas station market? Right, well, can I get
Speaker 2: that ship? You got in here. You think you're doing
Speaker 2: a favor. I don't know, man, just got some old snap.
Speaker 2: I'll eat it in front of you. Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I'm washing my car using uh, your squeegee,
Speaker 1: and it's only supposed to be the windows and I'm
Speaker 1: doing literally the whole car.
Speaker 2: So I will has a favorite to you.
Speaker 1: I will buy this dusty part, hard boiled egg and
Speaker 1: a ziplock bag.
Speaker 2: For some reason.
Speaker 3: They do have hard boiled eggs at gas sometimes for some.
Speaker 2: But they do have it. What Matt is something? What
Speaker 2: was the one we said underrated? Yeah? It was overrated? Here?
Speaker 2: What do you think is overrated?
Speaker 1: In Redwood City? Very overrated, had a very good rating.
Speaker 3: That's so because our most recent guests said it was underrated.
Speaker 1: So well, listen, they're wrong. You know who your most
Speaker 1: recent guests probably works for.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, the one on El Camino Reale.
Speaker 1: That's that's that one overrated sued by the Marshals. The Marshals,
Speaker 1: that's right, Yes, okay, I will say Dulce who works there,
Speaker 1: is very nice and she's she's doing her best. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I think she's a wonderful manager and or businesswoman
Speaker 1: and or a person who runs the front count. But
Speaker 1: I will say I took it over three times. Every
Speaker 1: time they thought it was all done. Every they said
Speaker 1: all everything fixed. Then I would drive for thirty minutes
Speaker 1: and then I would go full on h again and
Speaker 1: I go, oh, that's bad.
Speaker 2: I know that now. That's not a sailboat. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you lied to me, you tell you well, oh sir,
Speaker 2: that's a sailboat.
Speaker 4: Actually yeahoat, you're not in a sailboat, are you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're fine, then shut the fuck up, dude
Speaker 2: and get on it.
Speaker 3: But you were able to offload the your ube.
Speaker 1: I so then I went up and got I got
Speaker 1: a quote from CarMax and uh I drove the car first.
Speaker 2: I got it washed at like.
Speaker 1: A yeah yeah, yeah, yeah it was and then you know,
Speaker 1: I did the vacuum, which of course I had to
Speaker 1: buy a fucking donut.
Speaker 2: Yeah to get the vacuum. Yeage. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They were like, oh you guse it only takes change.
Speaker 1: I was like, I know you're lying, and then uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I took it to the car Max. Great thing about
Speaker 1: this car is that, uh it only over heats after
Speaker 1: like forty five minutes of driving. Yeah, so I took
Speaker 1: it in there and they like checked it all out.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, it's just definitely a seventeen hundred dollars car.
Speaker 1: And then they gave me the money and uh, and
Speaker 1: that paid for the new radiator.
Speaker 2: That I put in there. That didn't help, So you
Speaker 2: net it out to zero.
Speaker 1: I needed, you know what, two hundred dollars. Two hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: So everyone's eating chili's tonight, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: All right, Matt, we're gonna take a quick break and
Speaker 3: when we come back, we're gonna.
Speaker 2: Talk about bad has Bar. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3: And we're back, and Matt, it feels like we should
Speaker 3: probably start pretty basic with just what.
Speaker 2: What did you?
Speaker 3: Okay, news, can you explain to me what is it?
Speaker 2: Jew who was Moses Abraham? Is that the same Abraham
Speaker 2: from my book of ghost Stories?
Speaker 1: That's exact same Abraham as you know, fifteenth President of.
Speaker 2: The United States. Just explain what has Burrah is?
Speaker 1: Yes, So loosely, the word hasbara or hasbara or however
Speaker 1: you want to pronounce it comes from the Hebrew word
Speaker 1: meaning to explain, So it's like an explanation and so
Speaker 1: that's it's essentially what it is is. It's propaganda. It's
Speaker 1: an Israeli like public relations spin, just the way you know,
Speaker 1: the United States government has its own public relations, it
Speaker 1: does its own spin. The Israeli government does it as well.
Speaker 1: The difference is that within Israel, their kind of internal
Speaker 1: public relations is different than they're outward facing public relations.
Speaker 1: The stuff that you know, they they send to you know,
Speaker 1: Western English speaking audience is going to be different than
Speaker 1: a Hebrew audience at home. So yeah, hasbara is just
Speaker 1: it's a euphemism for propaganda, and it is something that
Speaker 1: for a while. It's only recently that the word has
Speaker 1: become kind of poisonous.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Now people know that that's what they call propaganda out there,
Speaker 1: so you know, so they they don't they don't say
Speaker 1: it as much as they used to, but they you know,
Speaker 1: for a while there, it was just the euphemism of choice,
Speaker 1: because everyone would would say, like, we need a way
Speaker 1: to explain the actions of our country to people who
Speaker 1: maybe you know, don't understand why we need to bomb
Speaker 1: this hospital or you know, mass arrest a bunch of
Speaker 1: people without trial, stuff.
Speaker 2: Like that, and just to ensure the constant flow of
Speaker 2: like economic and military support too. In the other direction,
Speaker 2: to help just always kind of keep the levels at
Speaker 2: a place where people in the United States don't get
Speaker 2: so incensed with things that they really start demanding.
Speaker 1: Right, especially stuff that you know, if it were done
Speaker 1: by any other country in which like the American people
Speaker 1: or Western people don't have kind of an automatic like
Speaker 1: sympathy for you would be like, hey, I demand that
Speaker 1: this country stop doing that, and hasbara is meant to
Speaker 1: be like, well, here's why we need to right, See,
Speaker 1: it's the explanation for things that you know, you see
Speaker 1: a version of events on social media and you go like, damn,
Speaker 1: that seems like super cruel and bad. But there has
Speaker 1: to be a reason for it, like why why would
Speaker 1: you know, why would the Israeli people do this? It
Speaker 1: must there must be more to it, And they go,
Speaker 1: there is more to it, and here's our explanation why
Speaker 1: this is okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just fill in those banks exactly, more sophisticated, more
Speaker 3: tailored to each of the countries and specifically the US.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the US and the West in general, like yeah,
Speaker 1: because of specific like Western sentiments and morality like we
Speaker 1: you know, as a Western liberal states like Europe or
Speaker 1: you know, the European Union, like in the UK and
Speaker 1: America and Canada. You have like a certain morality that
Speaker 1: you know, we all kind of profess to have where
Speaker 1: it's like killing killing innocence is bad and you know
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and yeah, and and you know, so
Speaker 1: you need someone to say why in some cases that's okay,
Speaker 1: or why what you're seeing is not actually what you
Speaker 1: saw and you shouldn't believe anyone but us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you guests hosted an episode of It could
Speaker 3: Happen here with Sharen Lana Unis.
Speaker 2: That's right, and you.
Speaker 3: Talked about your own experience with has Bara and going
Speaker 3: back to a birthright the Birthright trip, that's right. Can
Speaker 3: you can you talk about birthright what that is? And like,
Speaker 3: I don't know that was a helpful putting that I
Speaker 3: knew what birthrate was, or I thought I knew what
Speaker 3: birthright was, but I hadn't really put it in the
Speaker 3: context of Hasbara, Yeah until I kind of heard you
Speaker 3: talk about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the Birthright Trip, for those who don't know, is
Speaker 1: a free trip that young Jews from I think age
Speaker 1: is like as young as eighteen, as old as twenty six,
Speaker 1: something like that. The Israeli government will pay for Jews
Speaker 1: all around the world to come visit Israel. And it's
Speaker 1: like an all expenses paid trip in which you go
Speaker 1: there and you have a very what's the word curate
Speaker 1: dyl curated, a curious, a curated trip to Israel where
Speaker 1: you see kind of what they want you to see,
Speaker 1: you know, you see the nightlife in Tel Aviv, and
Speaker 1: you see the kibbutzus in the north and the the Masada,
Speaker 1: and you see all of these like amazing ancient artifacts
Speaker 1: of Jewish history, and you feel like close to it.
Speaker 2: You'd see the.
Speaker 1: Whaling Wall and and you are you know you you
Speaker 1: do if you're a non religious Jew like me. You
Speaker 1: put on to fill in for the first time, which
Speaker 1: is like the this wrap, this rappy thing you put
Speaker 1: around your arm, and you wear this little box on
Speaker 1: your head.
Speaker 2: It looks like a GoPro.
Speaker 1: And and you Davin for the first time and all
Speaker 1: this stuff, and it's like it's an experience that is
Speaker 1: one meant to either get you to move to Israel
Speaker 1: or get you to go back and tell everyone how
Speaker 1: great Israel is. I mean that is essentially the trip,
Speaker 1: and the trip that I took was people who were
Speaker 1: all secular. There was very few of us were like
Speaker 1: practicing or like, you know, none of us were like kosher, right, sure,
Speaker 1: we were all trace and so like it was meant
Speaker 1: to be. Like, you know, it doesn't matter whether or
Speaker 1: not you're even be an atheist. The point is this
Speaker 1: is your land and it's your right by blood to
Speaker 1: be here. And the craziest thing that happened was that
Speaker 1: there was a giant like event, a mega event at
Speaker 1: an arena in which all of the birthright trips got
Speaker 1: together and the head speaker, like the headliner was Benjamin
Speaker 1: Nettan Yahoo, who was Prime Minister at that time.
Speaker 2: This isn't like twenty e twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: This motherfucker has been the prime minister for so long Church.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. It is wild that like we keep saying,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: This is the only democracy in the Middle East, and
Speaker 1: it's like is it because this guy has been like
Speaker 1: how the dictator every like forever dude, and.
Speaker 3: Its kind of yeah that that story blows my mind
Speaker 3: because it just well I guess it. It puts in
Speaker 3: the proper context like how important, like how much of
Speaker 3: a priority this narrative is this, like yes, creating building
Speaker 3: this narrative like convincing people they have Net and Yahoo
Speaker 3: speaking to children, yes, yes.
Speaker 2: Like who could make you feel more important than the
Speaker 2: leader of the telling y'all as young people, like the
Speaker 2: future is in your hands, and like the future of
Speaker 2: Israel is in your hands.
Speaker 1: It was like and I remember that was the moment
Speaker 1: in which I was like, oh damn, Like I knew
Speaker 1: that getting the youth Jewish youth of the world on
Speaker 1: their side was like important to them, but I didn't
Speaker 1: know how important because I was like, this is the
Speaker 1: Prime Minister is gonna like come here, Like he doesn't
Speaker 1: have better things to do than to talk to a
Speaker 1: bunch of like brats about like about how great the
Speaker 1: country is and about how they're Actually he kept telling us,
Speaker 1: He's like, you're all from great countries, but you're from here.
Speaker 1: This is where you're from, which was for me, you know,
Speaker 1: another kind of like red flag, because.
Speaker 2: You had those moments like throughout it, like like yes,
Speaker 2: like were you kind of cynical going into it? Are
Speaker 2: you kind of nube or you had your own worldview?
Speaker 2: And when things kind of butted up against that, You're like,
Speaker 2: wait a second.
Speaker 1: At this point, I was, you know, cynical enough about
Speaker 1: Israel because I'd been to like college and I'd gotten
Speaker 1: some perspective on, you know, the the nuances of the
Speaker 1: Israel Palestine conflict. I wasn't like a full anti Zionist
Speaker 1: Jew at that point. I was just someone who was
Speaker 1: more critical than a lot of my peers and U
Speaker 1: but not you know, critical and enough to you know,
Speaker 1: pass to pass up a free trip. And so you know,
Speaker 1: for me, I was I was on the lookout for
Speaker 1: like some of these things. But I was also there
Speaker 1: because I truly was like, no, they're right, I need
Speaker 1: to see this with my own eyes. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: how it's like build. It's like, come see Israel for yourself,
Speaker 1: as if like what you're seeing somehow negates the things
Speaker 1: you're not seeing that you've heard about.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, come see South Africa for yourself. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this place seems pretty great as long as you're not
Speaker 1: in a bantoo stand.
Speaker 2: You know, who are those people in that prison? Bad guys?
Speaker 2: Bad guys are there. You know, we got great whites.
Speaker 2: You can see great whites down here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh they're surf down here, you know. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like for me, I was trying to. You know,
Speaker 1: I was trying to have a free trip, and I
Speaker 1: was trying to like a little bit be like I
Speaker 1: want to see it for myself. And I think for
Speaker 1: me it had the opposite effect that they were going for,
Speaker 1: because what they were going for was you're going to
Speaker 1: see how great this place is, and then you're going
Speaker 1: to start questioning every time someone criticizes it as like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're lying about us. And this was something that Benjamin
Speaker 1: Netnahu directly said to us. He said, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of lies out there, and the only way
Speaker 1: you can fight lies is with the truth. So tell
Speaker 1: people what you saw here. And then he proceeded to
Speaker 1: tell us what we saw there, and yeah, here's a bullet.
Speaker 2: A democracy that was flourishing with opportunities for many people,
Speaker 2: a diverse population.
Speaker 1: That kind of right, And it was a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, stuff that was going to appeal to young liberal,
Speaker 1: you know, college age kids, which was like you saw
Speaker 1: gay people existing, you saw women with the bikinis and
Speaker 1: not being told that they had to cover their face.
Speaker 1: It was very much like compared to those Arabs over there, right,
Speaker 1: you know, that was like, yeah, that was the thing
Speaker 1: was we are you know, even the phrase the most
Speaker 1: you know, they say, with the only democracy in the
Speaker 1: Middle East, everything is like in the Middle East, everything
Speaker 1: is in the region in comparison to the Arabs, And
Speaker 1: that is meant to appeal to a Western audience, which
Speaker 1: is by and large bias against Arabs and Muslims. So
Speaker 1: we're more willing to believe that, you know, everything Arabs
Speaker 1: do is backwards and problematic, you know, and therefore they
Speaker 1: are less deserving of our sympathies.
Speaker 3: And I think that's an important piece of context. Like
Speaker 3: this is for people who disagree with Israeli policy, like
Speaker 3: in a way, you know, yeah, that Israel is very
Speaker 3: protective of this is what you're up again, Like yeah,
Speaker 3: this level like they fund children who unremarkable children not
Speaker 3: to be unremarkable anybody. You're just a kid, and they
Speaker 3: treat you like an Olympic athlete, Like, yes, better than
Speaker 3: an Olympic athlete. Olympic athletes are like this food fucking sucks,
Speaker 3: Like yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, that was just an important piece
Speaker 3: of context for me in the whole, like that. It
Speaker 3: is a massive and vast propaganda machine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, itself is about propagandizing. I mean it is compare
Speaker 1: it to like selling you a timeshare. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like they they want to hard sell you on the
Speaker 1: idea of moving there or telling people that it's good,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's once you kind of dig deeper
Speaker 1: into like well.
Speaker 2: Wait, what, why do you know? What?
Speaker 1: Why why do you care where I live? That's when
Speaker 1: you start running into what is going to be the
Speaker 1: main issue with the Zionist project, which is that they
Speaker 1: need to atabt publish and maintain a Jewish demographic majority
Speaker 1: in Israel because it's the only way they can continue
Speaker 1: to be a quote democratic state at least within the
Speaker 1: within the borders of you know, actual Israel, like forty
Speaker 1: eight or whatever, and not in the occupied territories obviously,
Speaker 1: because that's just straight apartheid, but within Israel, like without
Speaker 1: that demographic majority, their whole fear is that like Arabs
Speaker 1: who have a higher birth rate are gonna you know,
Speaker 1: be more and more. There's gonna be more Arabs, more
Speaker 1: Arab voters, and therefore they're going to vote out the Jews.
Speaker 2: And so it is.
Speaker 1: Part of the project to get us to like uproot
Speaker 1: our lives and move to Israel right, and they do
Speaker 1: that in a series of ways that I find to
Speaker 1: be like blatantly anti Semitic. I mean, the birthright trip
Speaker 1: is at least them trying to like, you know, catch
Speaker 1: more flies with honey. The vinegar is them trying to
Speaker 1: convince you that everybody hates you, Like, no matter where
Speaker 1: you are in the world, if you're a Jew, you
Speaker 1: are hated by your neighbors. And I feel that that
Speaker 1: kind of instilling that paranoia is like blatantly anti Semitic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, I mean, like that's where you
Speaker 2: kind of see the levels at which it works, right,
Speaker 2: because you'll have Americans in the United States that have
Speaker 2: been exposed to that who sort of continue to carry
Speaker 2: that torch of like putting forward those talking points and
Speaker 2: also getting their friends around them to be more sympathetic
Speaker 2: because they can say, oh, I know someone who's been
Speaker 2: to Israel. They've only told me great things about it.
Speaker 2: So that's like the first layer of like inoculating people
Speaker 2: like towards any sort of criticisms. And then you get
Speaker 2: to a moment like October seventh, and people really begin
Speaker 2: to shift their focus there and then like you see
Speaker 2: the propaganda and the talking points come out in a
Speaker 2: very aggressive way, Like what, how do you see that shift?
Speaker 2: Because obviously this is something like the term has been
Speaker 2: like you since like the eighties. But what I'm and
Speaker 2: a lot of critics of like these government have always
Speaker 2: pointed at like this policy of basically gaslighting people and
Speaker 2: be like, no, that's you're not seeing what you're seeing
Speaker 2: kind of thing, right, yeah, but what is that like now? Like,
Speaker 2: how have you seen it ramped up? Because I mean
Speaker 2: when you've come on, we've talked about like what's happening
Speaker 2: in Gaza from time to time, not always specifically about
Speaker 2: like the propaganda dimensions, but now what like just how
Speaker 2: are you seeing like the evolution of that starting from
Speaker 2: or you know, October to even now, because I'm sure
Speaker 2: there's like moments where if things get even more aggressive
Speaker 2: or slightly more wacky or whatever, but yet.
Speaker 1: So like, the interesting thing about the attack on the
Speaker 1: seventh was that at that moment, you know, the day
Speaker 1: of the seventh and even in subsequent weeks after, the
Speaker 1: Israeli government had the goodwill of everybody in the West
Speaker 1: because they saw, you know, a terrorist attack that you know,
Speaker 1: no matter what way you slice it, you did see
Speaker 1: innocent people being killed by hamas and you know, different
Speaker 1: groups within Gaza, and so people were just like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm against terrorists, right, and so that goodwill being squandered
Speaker 1: was the really interesting thing that subsequent to the seventh
Speaker 1: the amount of death and destruction that was immediately like
Speaker 1: reigning upon the Palestinians in the Gaza strip like very
Speaker 1: quickly turned people. And I think the Haspar had a
Speaker 1: lot to do with it because they the Israeli PR
Speaker 1: machine was just not prepared, like people had not been
Speaker 1: media trained in a while. Is my guess that you
Speaker 1: had people going on these like you know, news magazines
Speaker 1: and talk you know, news talk shows and panels and whatnot,
Speaker 1: with no sense of I have to present this for
Speaker 1: a Western audience so that they understand it. Instead, you
Speaker 1: had people asking simple questions, like you know anchors on
Speaker 1: the BBC. I remember one of them asked, I think
Speaker 1: enough Tolly Bennett is an Israeli politician, like well, what
Speaker 1: are you guys doing to minimize the deaths of civilians
Speaker 1: in Gaza? And he just yelled at him. He just
Speaker 1: said like, come on, man, you know what the you're
Speaker 1: going to ask me that? After what they did, you're
Speaker 1: going to ask me that, you know, like you're going
Speaker 1: to care about that. And it was just such a
Speaker 1: it was came from such a place of just being
Speaker 1: tired of wearing the mask that people, I think started
Speaker 1: seeing more and more the way in which Israeli society
Speaker 1: was just like, we're okay with murdering these people, like
Speaker 1: way more okay than you guys thought we were, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so after the seventh you saw people, you know,
Speaker 1: being told basically not to believe their eyes. What they're
Speaker 1: seeing is, you know, not what they're actually seeing. Everything
Speaker 1: that you think, you know is backwards. If you see
Speaker 1: a video that shows a hospital being bombed, you have
Speaker 1: to not immediately blame Israel for doing it. You have
Speaker 1: to hold withhold your judgment until we tell you whether
Speaker 1: or not we did it right. And then you know,
Speaker 1: just kind of saying it was hamas and they kept
Speaker 1: doing it. And the thing is, in the past, whenever
Speaker 1: there have been any of flare ups, so to speak, in.
Speaker 2: Israel or in Gaza.
Speaker 1: A lot of the war crimes that people have been
Speaker 1: exposed to in the West, there's been an outcry at first,
Speaker 1: and then there's been a wait wait, wait, let's get
Speaker 1: all the fact straight first, and then a few weeks
Speaker 1: of radio silence where it goes out of the news cycle,
Speaker 1: and then they admit, Like, for example, the murder of
Speaker 1: Out zero journalist shrin abu Achlet was big news when
Speaker 1: it first happened. It just seemed to be a straight
Speaker 1: execution of this famous journalist. And then the Israelis denied it.
Speaker 1: They said we didn't do this, They said it was
Speaker 1: a you know, Palestinian plot to make us look bad.
Speaker 1: And then enough time had passed in between, you know,
Speaker 1: that story got out of the news cycle, and then
Speaker 1: eventually it was just I think they had no choice
Speaker 1: but to admit it because of their own journalists within
Speaker 1: Israel saying yeah, this is definitely us right, and people stopped.
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't a big news story anymore, so
Speaker 1: people were just like, oh, we forgot it. We moved
Speaker 1: on to whatever other thing. Because of just the scale
Speaker 1: of the destruction. Since the seventh it has not left
Speaker 1: the news cycle. So they've found themselves not having the
Speaker 1: time to wait for people to forget right. And so
Speaker 1: you see very clearly how the sausage is made, where
Speaker 1: every time there's some bad news about Israel. Then they
Speaker 1: counter it with like something bad is happening to Israel
Speaker 1: via the international community. For example, when the ICJ International
Speaker 1: Court of Justice finally came out with their uh, you know,
Speaker 1: preliminary ruling on whether or not this could be a
Speaker 1: genocide and they said yes, it could be. Immediately after,
Speaker 1: maybe less than twenty four hours, there were there was
Speaker 1: charges all over the Israel Israeli media and over Western
Speaker 1: media that UNRA, which is the UN's you know, basically
Speaker 1: Palestinian refugee group that like helped Palestinian refugee specifically, was
Speaker 1: complicit in October seventh, like UNRA is the UN did.
Speaker 1: October seventh was like the big thing. It was everywhere.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, everyone was talking about rapidly the
Speaker 1: United States stopped funding UNRA all of this stuff, and
Speaker 1: then it came the story was like talking about whether
Speaker 1: or not UNRA was complicit in these attacks on the seventh,
Speaker 1: and it stopped. We stopped talking about how the ICJ
Speaker 1: just said it looks like this is very possibly a genocide.
Speaker 2: Happened, right right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so you know that the strategy I think of
Speaker 1: like trying to stuff the media with a bunch of
Speaker 1: counter points, a bunch of talking points is rubbed off
Speaker 1: on people in a way where they're they just feel
Speaker 1: like they're insulting our intelligence, you know. And I think
Speaker 1: if you watch Piers Morgan you see a perfect example
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: This guy is.
Speaker 1: A total fucking shill. Like he is someone who loves Trump,
Speaker 1: he loves anything conservative, he hates woke pee pooh. You know,
Speaker 1: he's just like but with him, what he likes more
Speaker 1: than anything else is himself and his own He thinks
Speaker 1: he's a genius. So when an Israeli PR guy comes
Speaker 1: on there and can't can tell him exactly how many
Speaker 1: Hamas have died, but can't tell him how many civilians
Speaker 1: have died, even though it's like, well wouldn't the number
Speaker 1: be the rest of the number is therefore civilians, And
Speaker 1: he's like, no, I can't say, And it's like, but
Speaker 1: you know how many Hamas. There's a great video where
Speaker 1: he's just like he can't believe that this guy does
Speaker 1: not have a better answer for him, And Piers Morgan
Speaker 1: is like, since the seventh has been has been famous
Speaker 1: for asking every guest whether or not they condemn Hamas,
Speaker 1: and even he has been like, no, you have to
Speaker 1: at least lie to me. You have to like be good.
Speaker 1: You at least have to give me something plausible. The
Speaker 1: Hasbara has to be good so I can explain to
Speaker 1: people why you guys are good. If you're not going
Speaker 1: to give me that, then I'm gonna yell at you.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that is a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of people recently.
Speaker 5: All right, let's let's take a quick break. We'll be
Speaker 5: right back, and we're we're back.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah. One thing you know, I realized too of
Speaker 2: like the effect of the PR machine is like especially
Speaker 2: in like you know, like in the United States, Hollywood specifically,
Speaker 2: are there a lot of groups that are called like
Speaker 2: Creatives for Peace or these other groups that are clearly
Speaker 2: doing like the bidding of like what like the Israeli
Speaker 2: government or people who are sympathetic to the Zionist project
Speaker 2: or like you know, there's like the most recent thing
Speaker 2: was that Emmy nominated news thing It's Bisan from Gaza
Speaker 2: and I'm Still Alive, was nominated for an Emmy And
Speaker 2: this group came out that's like Creatives for Peace, like
Speaker 2: Creative Community for Peace. Yeah, Creative the CCP came out
Speaker 2: and said, hey, we really think this is like the Emmys,
Speaker 2: like the the Academy should really actually take back this
Speaker 2: nomination because this person is tied to like terrorist organizations
Speaker 2: or whatever merely for this is a this is a
Speaker 2: like a news piece that like won an Edward R.
Speaker 2: Merle Award. Like we're talking about legit journalism right on
Speaker 2: the ground.
Speaker 1: This is someone who is not a journalist who like
Speaker 1: flew into Gaza for you know, oh, this is a Palestinian.
Speaker 1: This is an actual on the ground gaz and who
Speaker 1: is there giving a first person account of what's happening.
Speaker 2: Right, And so like you see this like these weird
Speaker 2: moments like why would they why would these people get
Speaker 2: together to then like you know, like Deborah Messing and
Speaker 2: like yeah, Selma Blair like to it, and you're like
Speaker 2: what and but they are clearly you know, they're they
Speaker 2: they are acting on whatever they feel is the most
Speaker 2: beneficial to the optics for what is happening right.
Speaker 1: And this group, in particular, Creative Community for Peace, is
Speaker 1: a group that has their origins in the beginnings of
Speaker 1: the BDS movement. So as soon as BDS started happening,
Speaker 1: you know, people boycott divestment sanction, and one of the
Speaker 1: key components of that is a cultural boycott of Israel.
Speaker 1: And by the way, these are tactics that were used
Speaker 1: by people who were against apartheid in South Africa, right,
Speaker 1: and this is it's a very effective tactic. In order
Speaker 1: to counter that, Creative Community for Peace has been like,
Speaker 1: we're we got to make sure that we get the
Speaker 1: celebrities on our side. So we're gonna do everything we
Speaker 1: can to cozy up the celebrities so that there the
Speaker 1: entire Creative Community for Peace, like name is some bullshit.
Speaker 2: They're not about peace.
Speaker 1: What they are about is making sure that BDS is
Speaker 1: not a tactic that catches on. Right, it's a reaction
Speaker 1: to a non violent political movement for ending of apartheid
Speaker 1: in Israel. And they're like no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that bad.
Speaker 2: We're about peace, right right, Exactly, Like that woman shouldn't
Speaker 2: have an emmy. It's like, yeah, anything to do with it.
Speaker 1: This twenty four year old journalist in Gaza whose videos
Speaker 1: are I survived another bombing. Yeah, it's bad because and
Speaker 1: it's the great thing about that story is they couldn't
Speaker 1: even call her Hamas because that wasn't they tie her
Speaker 1: to the PFLP, right, and so it's like they can't
Speaker 1: they can't, you know, they usually just say, oh they're Hamas,
Speaker 1: this person is Hamas, but in this case, they're like,
Speaker 1: we got a video of her speaking at a rally, right,
Speaker 1: and so let's we're gonna call her a terrorist.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, but like you just see these like
Speaker 2: talking points or sort of stories either intentionally covered or
Speaker 2: not covered, Like you also see how that's acting on
Speaker 2: our media. Like the prisoner prisoner abuse scandal, Yeah, fucking
Speaker 2: was like nowhere right, yeah, and like it took me
Speaker 2: reading like many other things. I mean, like most people
Speaker 2: were talking about it, but like if you were watching MSNBC,
Speaker 2: read the New York Time or Washington Post or CNN,
Speaker 2: you probably got very little on it. And for all
Speaker 2: of the emphasis that was happening on like you know,
Speaker 2: sexual assaults on the seventh like and the like, the
Speaker 2: weird lack of visibility on something that was happening that
Speaker 2: was documented even on video was like very alarming. It
Speaker 2: had me really feeling like truly I'm like, oh shit,
Speaker 2: like this is this is fucking wild. Like I'm seeing shit,
Speaker 2: I'm reading reports even from like Haretz or whatever in Israel,
Speaker 2: and I'm not We're not. We're barely getting anything like
Speaker 2: that here, and you realize too, like to the point
Speaker 2: of what Hasbara is meant to do. It's also for audiences,
Speaker 2: especially in the United States, because the United States is
Speaker 2: like Israel's golden goose, number one supporter. Yeah, like, it's
Speaker 2: really important that people in the United States that the
Speaker 2: tide doesn't turn against them. And it does feel like
Speaker 2: in polling most people are saying like, yeah, we need
Speaker 2: to knock this shit off, like yeah, seems immediately, and
Speaker 2: so it feels even more strange in America too, to
Speaker 2: be like we all know this is bad, we're all
Speaker 2: saying this shouldn't be happening, and then we even have
Speaker 2: our own politicians being like noah, no, no, it's all good,
Speaker 2: like don't worry, like right, just just avert your eyes children,
Speaker 2: because the adults are actually doing something. And that's what
Speaker 2: I think is really insidious part of how it's affecting
Speaker 2: the discourse here because not only that anyone who advocates
Speaker 2: for like Palestinian personhood is treated like some kind of
Speaker 2: pariah or threat to other people's safety, right, And I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think another dimension of all of this working
Speaker 2: in conjunction is a lot of the emphasis when talking
Speaker 2: about what's happening in Gaza the West Bank is like
Speaker 2: to not talk about the main struggle between Palestinian people
Speaker 2: and what is happened, like what the Israeli military is
Speaker 2: doing to them. It's always like shifting the focus to, well,
Speaker 2: you know what Iran is actually blocking all of this,
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, no, no, Like, the thing that
Speaker 2: I'm really concerned about is watch, like I'm seeing really
Speaker 2: disturbing images and accounts come out of Gaza in the
Speaker 2: West Bank.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm seeing literal like video of babies being killed
Speaker 1: in Gaza, Palestinian children being killed on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: Rawful shit. But again, like all like our media will
Speaker 2: pick up talking points to then do the same thing
Speaker 2: because obviously in the same time, you know, like APAC
Speaker 2: and groups like that were huge supporters of the invasion
Speaker 2: of Iraq. Because theres always to be like, yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: that's that's it now, exactly, thank you, it's exactly they
Speaker 2: write this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I mean it is like the Hasbara is meant
Speaker 1: to make people in the West complacent to what happens
Speaker 1: in Israel, what the Israeli government chooses to do and
Speaker 1: in Gaza and whatnot, and you know, things like limited
Speaker 1: coverage of what happened and that I was style timon
Speaker 1: are you know I can't pronounce anything good? Yeah, But
Speaker 1: the prison in Israel that in which we there's a
Speaker 1: video of not just the sexual assault of a Polycinian prisoner,
Speaker 1: but also video of then the you know, people in
Speaker 1: the Kanesset and you know, Israeli parliament debating whether or
Speaker 1: not they're allowed to do that right, right, right? And
Speaker 1: it brings to mind like us debating in the United
Speaker 1: States are we allowed to torture? Are we allowed to
Speaker 1: have Guantanamo? And and you know, totally missing out on
Speaker 1: the question of like are these people human or not human?
Speaker 1: Do they have the same rights as us? Or do
Speaker 1: they not have the same rights as us? And it's
Speaker 1: like when you have a society that's just decided, you know,
Speaker 1: takes as a matter of course that Arabs are not
Speaker 1: equal human beings, then of course that's not the question
Speaker 1: they're going to ask. They're not going to ask is
Speaker 1: it right? Right, They're gonna ask, well, is it legal?
Speaker 1: And you know, so I think the United States and
Speaker 1: Israel not that different in terms of the way in
Speaker 1: which we have a bias against a racist bias against Arabs.
Speaker 2: And you know.
Speaker 1: We we are going to cover a story like that
Speaker 1: as a couple of bad apples, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: as opposed to as a part of a bigger narrative
Speaker 1: of the Israeli brutality against Palestinians. And the reason that
Speaker 1: we do that is not because of necessarily because of
Speaker 1: like some nefarious group. It's not like a the news
Speaker 1: media all gets together in a cabal, right, right, Like
Speaker 1: how people you know can quickly veer into the lane
Speaker 1: of anti Semitism where they just go, oh, the capal
Speaker 1: of of people getting together and deciding to do no.
Speaker 1: It's it's very much about the bias that America and
Speaker 1: American journalists by and large have towards Israel being the
Speaker 1: good guy. For better or worse, Israel is the one
Speaker 1: that reflects our values, right, And you know, you can't
Speaker 1: you can't look at a story like what was happening
Speaker 1: in that prison as something that exists as part of
Speaker 1: a larger context. You have to be like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: they got some crazy guys over there, you know, it's
Speaker 1: too bad.
Speaker 2: It's really too bad, you know.
Speaker 1: And and it's this kind of refusal to see and
Speaker 1: condemn the society itself as deeply racist, as deeply deeply supremacist.
Speaker 2: We're looking into like a funhouse mirror as Americans like Israel,
Speaker 2: like Israel's policies too, because look, maybe we see the
Speaker 2: settler colonial aspirations and we we wreck game recognize game
Speaker 2: there too. And in the same way when it comes
Speaker 2: to have reckonings with like true like the actual oppressive
Speaker 2: systemic forces that act on people, there doesn't matter if
Speaker 2: it's here or abroad. It's like, unless it's specifically to dehumanize,
Speaker 2: then it's like, well, look what they don't allow their
Speaker 2: women to do or look at it. But if it's
Speaker 2: if it's if it's about actually a self critique or
Speaker 2: something that we are we have a hand in, like
Speaker 2: you know, the Israeli military, then it turns into brain
Speaker 2: gymnastics contortion act where we do everything but have a
Speaker 2: real discussion around what isn't or who is or is
Speaker 2: not the person. Although you know, the reflexively, it feels
Speaker 2: very easy for them, especially American media, to be like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, Unfortunately they don't look like us. Like the
Speaker 2: brain thing obviously was good for ratings because like Western
Speaker 2: European looking people, but anything else, we just have this
Speaker 2: reflexive switch to say, yeah, the oppressions is kind of
Speaker 2: part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like well, you know, well, what would you
Speaker 1: do if you were surrounded by Arabs? Like that's kind
Speaker 1: of like what they that's their ex explanation for a
Speaker 1: lot of things is like well if what if what
Speaker 1: if America was surrounded by Arabs? Like right, yeah, wouldn't
Speaker 1: you be scared? And wouldn't you do everything you can
Speaker 1: and build big, big walls to wall yourself off? And
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily untrue because American states, but the United States,
Speaker 1: we love to build big walls to keep brown people out.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: The difference is is that like in Israel, when they
Speaker 1: talk about this stuff, they talk about it as if
Speaker 1: they are that they have a right to do what
Speaker 1: is essentially colonialism, and we when people try to put
Speaker 1: it in the context of like, oh, this is colonialism,
Speaker 1: then they go no, no, no, no, no, no no, no,
Speaker 1: this is not this is actually anti colonialism. We are
Speaker 1: actually indigenous, and so they have to layer on this
Speaker 1: like bullshit. When it was Zionism was a colonial project explicitly,
Speaker 1: so you know, this was something that they said back
Speaker 1: when colonialism was not considered bad. It was considered like
Speaker 1: how a people did self determination, you know, it was
Speaker 1: like creating a do you know, creating a colony was
Speaker 1: just like that's how we are strong, you know. And
Speaker 1: then once decolonization became kind of the norm, like colonialism
Speaker 1: became kind of a dirty word, they had to change
Speaker 1: what they were saying they were doing from you know,
Speaker 1: colonialism to oh no, no, we're actually an indigenous rights movement,
Speaker 1: which is like completely bullshit. I mean, it's just like
Speaker 1: one of those things where you can't you can't And
Speaker 1: this is Hasbara's I think biggest issue of late is
Speaker 1: you can't be like we are. You know, we are
Speaker 1: the liberal bastion of the world. We love everything you
Speaker 1: love as like a as a leftist. Everything you love
Speaker 1: is a liberal you know, gay people, women's rights and
Speaker 1: all this stuff. Bleeding heartshit. We're that. But also we
Speaker 1: are the outposts of the West and our civilization. We
Speaker 1: are the only people keeping the mongrel hordes, you know,
Speaker 1: the Arab, the evil Arab out and you're like you
Speaker 1: can't actually appeal to These are two different demographics you're
Speaker 1: trying to appeal to. It's like you're trying to feel
Speaker 1: appeal to both the fascists and to the lives.
Speaker 2: And to the people. It's like, we got a little
Speaker 2: bit of something for people who believe all people are
Speaker 2: human beings desert, and we also got a little bit
Speaker 2: of something for people go these motherfuckers ain't people. Yeah right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It like that sort of that balancing act is so
Speaker 2: it's tricky, yeah, and it just targes sort of stomach
Speaker 2: or takes seriously a lot of the time because like
Speaker 2: what is being said it juxtaposed with what is happening.
Speaker 1: It just you're like, it's so clearly, it's so clearly
Speaker 1: lies in propaganda. It's so clearly them trying to like,
Speaker 1: you know, get you to turn off a part of
Speaker 1: your brain. And and I think, you know, as this
Speaker 1: has been the most I've ever seen in terms of
Speaker 1: people who have kind of woken up to this reality
Speaker 1: of what Israel like actually is and what they actually
Speaker 1: are is just like a brutal, right wing apartheid state
Speaker 1: that its existence is predicated, at least in its current formation,
Speaker 1: its existence is predicated on the ethnic cleansing and the
Speaker 1: disenfranchisement of Palestinians. And you know, if you don't know that,
Speaker 1: you know that now at least a lot of people
Speaker 1: are waking up to that, and I think, yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, after a while, you know, you
Speaker 1: just go like, oh, now I get why. Every time, like,
Speaker 1: if a family, you know, has one member who is
Speaker 1: like is a Hamasque guy or a plo guy and
Speaker 1: they haven't, you know, done an act of terror or
Speaker 1: they did let's say, a stabbing or something. It's not
Speaker 1: just a case of Okay, they're going to arrest the
Speaker 1: guy and he's going to be in jail because he
Speaker 1: did a crime. They're gonna bulldoze the house of the family.
Speaker 1: You're just like, what, wait, why why do that? That's
Speaker 1: not normal. That's not something that like if that happens
Speaker 1: in the United States, if they're just like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: that gang member did a shooting, let's bulldoze their house
Speaker 1: like that shit is you go, Oh, this is a
Speaker 1: that's not good. This is definitely about something big. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is definitely about a land project.
Speaker 2: I'm American, and I'm even like, wait, right, is that
Speaker 2: like leal, Yeah, are you like allowed to do that?
Speaker 1: Like why would the whole family gets their house bulldoze?
Speaker 1: And it's not to say the United States doesn't have
Speaker 1: you know, tons of history regarding like stealing land. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I mean we do that. That's how we are here.
Speaker 1: But it's a you know, it's a question of trying
Speaker 1: to convince us that it's something else that it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, the only way to fight terror is to
Speaker 1: do ethnic cleansing. And that's when you yeah, you know, is.
Speaker 3: There anything that's making you feel hopeful? Because from my perspective,
Speaker 3: it feels like we're like there there was this movement,
Speaker 3: there were the student protests, there was and as things
Speaker 3: have settled, the gravitational pool of the Hasbara and just
Speaker 3: of the sort of legacy mainstream media perspective has pulled
Speaker 3: things in that direction. Like it feels like we're losing ground,
Speaker 3: right and like the student protests now have like settled
Speaker 3: in the mainstream imagination as like people sharing you know,
Speaker 3: anti Semitic is the word that you see used a
Speaker 3: lot of the time. So like, how how are you
Speaker 3: feeling about like the state of the movement as it's
Speaker 3: currently constituted and just that wholen.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not like by nature someone who is
Speaker 1: like optimistic. I just it's it's this is for me
Speaker 1: has been something that because I've you know, studied it
Speaker 1: and cared about it for a long time, I've always
Speaker 1: I've never seen it as like completely intractable. I've always
Speaker 1: seen it with the view of like, eventually this is
Speaker 1: going to end. I mean, there's just like you know,
Speaker 1: but the question of like in my lifetime has always
Speaker 1: been kind of like I don't know about that, but
Speaker 1: you know, but I will be honest, I've been a
Speaker 1: lot more optimistic in the last few months because I
Speaker 1: had not put as much stock I think into a
Speaker 1: lot of things that maybe more if you're new to
Speaker 1: this issue, you might put more stock into something like
Speaker 1: the student protests or whatnot and go like, oh man,
Speaker 1: this seems like something could happen. Like I was, like,
Speaker 1: that's a great thing to me. I've been what I've
Speaker 1: been putting stock into is kind of the broad American
Speaker 1: public opinion on this issue is changing because of the
Speaker 1: continued focus of news media on this, even if it's biased.
Speaker 1: News media and like social media has been a huge
Speaker 1: thing for this because the main issue I've always seen
Speaker 1: is that people don't know about it. People just kind
Speaker 1: of go on their like more basic assumptions about who
Speaker 1: the good guys and who the bad guys are, or
Speaker 1: they like opt out by saying, I don't know, man.
Speaker 2: It seems like they've been.
Speaker 1: Really kind of for thousands of years and it's very
Speaker 1: complicated and I'm not going to figure this out. And
Speaker 1: now I think people are because they're becoming more educated
Speaker 1: on the subject than seeing with their own eyes what's happening,
Speaker 1: and because Israel has not improved their pr strategy, I
Speaker 1: am feeling more hopeful. I'm feeling more and more like
Speaker 1: they are eating themselves from within it in that society.
Speaker 1: I've heard from more like left wing Israeli voices than
Speaker 1: I have in the longest time, and it just seems
Speaker 1: more and more like the people in the West, who
Speaker 1: once had a more like like an unconscious bias about
Speaker 1: preferring the Israelis over the Palestinians, are now having that
Speaker 1: kind of reversed and are just starting to see Israel
Speaker 1: for what it is, which is like a racist, apartheid state.
Speaker 1: And I think that that shift in public opinion is
Speaker 1: important because at the end of the day, one reason
Speaker 1: I think Israel's been able to get away with so
Speaker 1: much is because people just don't care, right, And I'm
Speaker 1: starting to see that change now. The only worry I
Speaker 1: have with it has been I want to make sure
Speaker 1: that people don't fall into the traps that a lot
Speaker 1: of Israeli's or at least Israeli like media guys set,
Speaker 1: which is like, act so much like an anti Semitic
Speaker 1: stereotype that you believe in anti Semitic stereotypes, and act
Speaker 1: in a way in which you're saying, oh, all Jews
Speaker 1: believe this because Israelis love to do this, we are
Speaker 1: representatives of all Jews, and then get people to believe
Speaker 1: that all Jews support the State of Israel and its
Speaker 1: actions like that to me is an important facet of
Speaker 1: like speaking out on this for me because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I want people to know that Jews are not a
Speaker 1: monolith and do not like automatically support Israel no matter
Speaker 1: what they say, no matter what polls they bring out
Speaker 1: when they say like majority vast majority of Jews, they
Speaker 1: always say like something along lines of like connect strongly
Speaker 1: with Israel, and it's like, well, yeah, obviously Israel quote unquote,
Speaker 1: the you know, the thing from the Bible is different
Speaker 1: than the modern state of Israel. And also, yeah, any
Speaker 1: Jewish person is going to have a connection through Judaism
Speaker 1: to the idea of Israel, ancient Israel specifically, but also,
Speaker 1: you know, we've been taught about Israel as being like
Speaker 1: the place that we earned through our blood, you know,
Speaker 1: and mass extermination attempts over thousands of years in Europe. Like,
Speaker 1: you're not going to change that overnight, No one's you know.
Speaker 1: But I do believe that the idea that all Jews
Speaker 1: automatically support Israel is a complete fabrication that is proliferated
Speaker 1: by has Barists who want us to all seem like
Speaker 1: we are in solidarity with one another as like blood Jews,
Speaker 1: which is just this really fascist like mindset. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling more optimistic because people are more and more
Speaker 1: speaking out about it or realize that like, Israel is
Speaker 1: not the good guy, and a lot of Jewish people
Speaker 1: in the West are actively ashamed of the people that
Speaker 1: they know who blindly support Israel, and the young people
Speaker 1: have really made me feel like.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a future here. But yeah, who knows.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, appreciate having you on.
Speaker 2: I want to point out it's a funny podcast. Is
Speaker 2: a funny podcast.
Speaker 3: We just get cover and.
Speaker 2: I do a bit real quick. We're going to do
Speaker 2: you want to do?
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to uh it's to me and bart at
Speaker 1: my wife. I say stuff like that. It's pretty cool
Speaker 1: a sound I have a soundboard usually, so.
Speaker 2: It's pretty ye. Yeah, you'll love the voice modulator too.
Speaker 2: Oh I use the voice modulator. That's how I I
Speaker 2: pretend to be fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so you know, yeah, go check it out.
Speaker 3: And where can people find you? Follow you hear the
Speaker 3: podcast all that good stuff.
Speaker 1: You can hear the podcast wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1: It's called Bad Hasbar the World's Most moral podcast.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: You can also watch it on YouTube. Uh there's a
Speaker 1: YouTube channel so you can see our face as while
Speaker 1: we're doing it. So subscribe to bad Asbara on YouTube.
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, follow me on Instagram at matt leab
Speaker 1: jokes and uh you know if I can, I'm on
Speaker 1: Twitter at matt Leib.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 3: Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying
Speaker 3: a tweet or otherwise?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there is. This is not like the funniest thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: so there's a couple. One is I just got introduced
Speaker 1: to someone named La Beast. I know this is an
Speaker 1: old YouTuber and uh, apparently he was like back in
Speaker 1: the day, like he was just like a prank guy.
Speaker 1: So I just started going through all of like his videos,
Speaker 1: and he has a video in which he is mad
Speaker 1: at his dad. So he goes into his dad's old
Speaker 1: smobile and drinks epicac and soda and he just.
Speaker 2: Oh my, oh god, oh my god.
Speaker 1: He vod it's all over it and I can't I
Speaker 1: can't explain how funny it is.
Speaker 2: You just have to watch La piece. It just made me.
Speaker 1: It made me, I don't know, like nostalgic for the
Speaker 1: days of YouTube when it was just like like idiots
Speaker 1: eating cactuses and shit, you know what I mean, back
Speaker 1: when YouTube was fun and it was just like like halfway.
Speaker 2: Dying in slow motion as a vlog. Yeah, and you're
Speaker 2: like that guy just drink a fifth of stole, all right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: You're like, oh man, that's crazy. Yeah, so that was cool.
Speaker 1: And then the other pieces, Uh, this is just a
Speaker 1: thing I think everyone should watch is ret and Link
Speaker 1: who I do a show called Good Mythical Morning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they have a separate channel called retin Link on
Speaker 1: on YouTube and they just started a series called wonder
Speaker 1: Hole and I'm not in it. I'm literally just plugging
Speaker 1: it because it's really good. It's called wonder Hole. If
Speaker 1: you go to the subscribe to the ret and Link
Speaker 1: channel or just go there and you'll see the first
Speaker 1: episode just came out a couple of days ago. It's
Speaker 1: really good. It's it's it's not like their usual you know,
Speaker 1: like studio stuff, so uh so yeah, check check that out.
Speaker 1: And it's like there. I'm literally only plugging it because
Speaker 1: I like it, and not because not because I know
Speaker 1: it's no, I don't get a cut or I'm not
Speaker 1: even in it. They didn't even ask me to be
Speaker 1: in it, and so like half of it, I'm plugging
Speaker 1: it because you're mad the I'm kind of mad at
Speaker 1: them because I'm like.
Speaker 2: You tuned in being like, let's see what this bullshit? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was just like all right, and then I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: this is really good. What the fuck?
Speaker 1: So yeah, anyways, uh check out checkout Wonderhole. It's very good.
Speaker 2: Awesome miles. Where can people find you?
Speaker 3: And is there a work of media you've been enjoying.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah.
Speaker 2: Find me on the Twitter, the Indus Instagram at Miles
Speaker 2: of Gray, find Jack and on the basketball podcast Miles
Speaker 2: and Jack cop Man Boosties. Find me on four to
Speaker 2: twenty Day Fiance Talking ninety day Fiance. Tweet I like
Speaker 2: is from Derek Pressman at Derek Crestman said the electoral
Speaker 2: College is DEI for rural white folks like no, no,
Speaker 2: no no, that's our word.
Speaker 3: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian
Speaker 3: a tweet I've been enjoying. Mike Bovias bo Vice tweeted
Speaker 3: a picture of JD. Van's photoshopped into the Hot Wings
Speaker 3: set and it says, and these are chicken wings? How
Speaker 3: long have you hosted hot ones? These are hot sauces.
Speaker 3: What's a good number of wings to eat? I'll do
Speaker 3: whatever makes sense when it comes to the hot sauce.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: It just really nailed shut guy.
Speaker 2: JD. Dance Yep.
Speaker 3: You can find us on Twitter at daily Zeikeist, where
Speaker 3: the daily Zeikeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fanpage
Speaker 3: and a website, daily zeikeist dot com, where we post
Speaker 3: our episodes and our footnotes We're like, oh, the information
Speaker 3: that we talked about today's episode, as well as a
Speaker 3: song that we think you might enjoy, Miles, is there
Speaker 3: a song that you think people might end?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a track. Oh wow, I was playing that
Speaker 2: Ryan Adams cover of Wonderwall and then I completely lost
Speaker 2: it messed it up there it is. It's a track
Speaker 2: called Summer Rain by the group Zimmer ninety. I've not
Speaker 2: heard of this band, but this song has like a
Speaker 2: lot of plays. It came up in a playlist I
Speaker 2: was listening to, uh, and it's just got like again,
Speaker 2: it's it's calm, it feels like summer rain. It's not
Speaker 2: gonna it's not like some blow your speakers out type
Speaker 2: agro kind of beat anything. It's like a nice little
Speaker 2: kind of like rock to them, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Indie rock pipes. So this is Summer Rain by Zimmer ninety.
Speaker 3: All right, we will link off to that in the
Speaker 3: foot notes to Day These Eye Guys is a production
Speaker 3: of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, visit
Speaker 3: the iHeart Radio ap Apple Podcaster, wherever you get your
Speaker 3: favorite shows. That is going to do it for us
Speaker 3: this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what is trending,
Speaker 3: and we will talk to you all then.
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye bye