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Speaker 1: Someone was talking about uh, talking about Champagne Supernova on

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Speaker 1: Twitter today and I was like, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Like it's a great songs.

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Speaker 2: It's about the songs I never heard of, you know

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Speaker 2: what exactly. I'm not going to defend those because I

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Speaker 2: don't know, but the ones I know that they came

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Speaker 2: at a good time in my life. Yeah. Yeah, shout

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Speaker 2: out to Oasis back when you had to buy a

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Speaker 2: whole album for two songs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's only twenty dollars.

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Speaker 2: Whoa where were you going the warehouse? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I was going to wear I was going to Sam Goodie.

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Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah we had a Sam Goodie by.

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Speaker 3: Oh hey, sis is that something?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, Oh you're an Oasis scriptwriting to establish a

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Speaker 3: new character.

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Speaker 2: Oh hey, his eyes light up. We was gonna cool

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Speaker 2: the band?

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Speaker 1: Oh a brov but oh I sees yeah, ohis we

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Speaker 1: met Belle Hooks and go.

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Speaker 2: Into black feminism? Yeah? Oh, sister, I said, wait a second,

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Speaker 2: wait why a moumy white? Why? Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing is they all have like a Manchester accent,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm supposed to know what the fuck that is.

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Speaker 3: It's hard, like comes the nerve of them talking about

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Speaker 3: that accent that.

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Speaker 2: Hey, what's up, pal? You want to get freaking wasted? Bro?

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Speaker 2: Go to the pack? Yeah, there we go. It is

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Speaker 2: that's Manchester by the Sea, I think, Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 2: different Manchester.

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Speaker 3: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three point fifty two,

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Speaker 3: episode two of Dirt as production of iHeart Radio. This

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Speaker 3: is the podcast where were taking deep dive into American

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Speaker 3: chair consciousness. And it is Tuesday, August twenty seventh, twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four, which of course means it's the day that

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Speaker 3: we find out if Oasis is actually getting back together.

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Speaker 2: First of all, still don't fucking know f.

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Speaker 3: Eight twenty four. What the fuck is that? Just a

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Speaker 3: random assortment of numbers.

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Speaker 2: There's no fucking twenty seventh month, You fucking weirdos, you fools.

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Speaker 2: Oh they did it euro style anyway. Today, if it

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Speaker 2: isn't Oasis Reunion Day, it is National po de crem Day.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to another wonderful dessert dish, and also shout

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Speaker 2: out Georgia because it's National peach Day. Yeah yeah, get

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Speaker 2: The summer is the time the window is shortening for

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Speaker 2: good pitches for people who go and frequent the farmers market.

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Speaker 3: Probably the highest ratio of like how good it gets

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Speaker 3: during in season versus like how good it is out season?

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Speaker 2: Oh, any anything? Currently, like it's any months months render

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Speaker 2: some of the sweetest legion peach. I can eat a

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Speaker 2: peach for hours.

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Speaker 3: To quote castor Troy and a face off Jesus, Oh

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Speaker 3: my god.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then I think they like isolate that to try

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Speaker 3: and get his voice, and so you hear him say

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Speaker 3: it like twenty times, and now it's stuck in my head.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes I'll just say it under my breath.

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Speaker 2: And my wife will be like, what I like, not said,

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Speaker 2: I wish said beach had showers. Beach, I wish it's

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Speaker 2: beach had showers. Anyways, my name is Jack O'Brien AKA.

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Speaker 3: They rally round the JD with the dixie cup of

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Speaker 3: cum that is courtesy.

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Speaker 2: Of Blackrony on the discord.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to you, Shout out to the Republicans with

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Speaker 3: their little dixie cup.

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Speaker 2: With j D com where they were like, got them,

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Speaker 2: got them? What is that? Now he's weird.

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Speaker 3: I'm still fucking you guys, so strange. Anyways, I'm thrilled

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Speaker 3: to be joined as always by my co host, mister

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Speaker 3: Miles Grass.

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Speaker 2: It's Miles Gray. With a belly still full of Dodger dogs.

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Speaker 2: It's the Lord of Lancersham and the show Gun with

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Speaker 2: no gun. Miles Gray, thank you so much for just a.

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Speaker 3: Whole bag of them just down there right.

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Speaker 2: I was content, cargo pants on. I was thinking of

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Speaker 2: shamelessly just taking filling my pockets, my cargo pants pockets

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Speaker 2: with hot dogs with dogs throwing out because yeah, no buns,

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Speaker 2: just the dogs loose.

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Speaker 3: Brice takes them down like Kobe Ashi, breaks them in

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Speaker 3: back and then just dips the bun in water. Yeah yeah, Miles,

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Speaker 3: we are thrilled to that voice saying no buns. His

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Speaker 3: famous catchphrase is one of our favorite guests. Very funny

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Speaker 3: comedian the host of the podcast The Frontcast, Pod Yourself

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Speaker 3: with Gun, Pod Yourself, The Wire, and his latest podcast,

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Speaker 3: Bad Hasbara, which happens to be the most moral pod

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Speaker 3: cast in existence and of all time. Please welcome one

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Speaker 3: of the funniest people doing it anywhere.

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Speaker 2: It's Matt said Baby. Francesca and Matt Lee got a

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Speaker 2: baby and after she came from ball what's up?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 2: That wasn't that was your birth announcement?

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's how I announced to everyone that my baby

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Speaker 1: was born. And she came from my balls.

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Speaker 2: Like, thanks, we didn't we know in case people were like,

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Speaker 2: cause you wanted to say, is that your baby? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: From your ball?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, from both from my ball, one ball single yeah,

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Speaker 1: although I mean it's only one sperm, so brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Only came from one burn, one ball, one burn.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the balls. You never know left not

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Speaker 1: a right nut. That's the thing about it.

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Speaker 2: It's it's like, uh, you know the way uh, if

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Speaker 2: you're left handed or right handed, that's how you know

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Speaker 2: which ball. That's how you know.

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Speaker 1: It's like a firing squad. You know, everyone shoots, but

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Speaker 1: no one knows who's actually got a real bullet and

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Speaker 1: who's got a bully right.

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Speaker 3: And that is what I used to when I was

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Speaker 3: a bully. Instead of saying head or gut, I would

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Speaker 3: say left nut or right nut?

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Speaker 1: Which one do you want me to justing when I

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Speaker 1: was a bully, when I was.

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Speaker 3: Gut.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was a big time bully man. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'd be like, which shoelace do you want? Untied loser

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Speaker 2: and bully sick bully ship I was doing. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: like good will hunting.

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Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, yeah, Jack O'Brien made me choose the

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Speaker 1: ranch at a belt. I said both because fuck him

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Speaker 1: nets Why.

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Speaker 2: You know what I said, flick both my nuts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, flick both my nuts. I wish I could. I

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Speaker 1: can't really do the act.

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Speaker 2: No, that was perfect. I have it. Yeah, all right,

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Speaker 2: and we're gonna be.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna be reading Gordon Wood, regagitating Gordon Wood, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you like them apples? All right?

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Speaker 3: When you're gonna read Zin and it's gonna blow your

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Speaker 3: hair back and it's like everybody's rich in by Okay.

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Speaker 2: Not everyone? Hey man, what what up? Though? It's great

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Speaker 2: to have you.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be back. I love you guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, love love talking to you guys about stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're gonna talk to you about your podcast.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah, okay in the stadium at the moment. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what is it? That's that's the only question I've got

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Speaker 2: written down? Yeah, what is it? What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: And is it bad?

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Speaker 3: I mean your title says it, but is it like

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Speaker 3: bad like the Michael Jackson album title?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is it bad? That means good?

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Speaker 4: Imagine redo that album cover is bbing it? And Yahoo

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Speaker 4: with the changes that ship. I'm gonna make that on

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Speaker 4: my phone right now.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't I a miss at the time, or were people

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Speaker 3: like all right, let's see where he's going with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I just remember as a kid, I was so

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Speaker 2: stoked because I was like, yo, let's need to like it.

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Speaker 2: Fulled my ass. Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this is the most I've ever liked an album.

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Speaker 2: Is how much I like that album When it dropped,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't name. I'm trying to think of what were

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Speaker 2: the other good songs on that album, because I think

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Speaker 2: I put on.

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Speaker 3: A concert of that in my neighborhood, just me and

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Speaker 3: my friend lip syncing two songs that we didn't really

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Speaker 3: know the words.

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Speaker 1: Are you ever bought Michael Jackson album before? So I

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Speaker 1: don't know what his albums are all the way through.

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Speaker 1: I only know, like you know, the hits, but there's

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Speaker 1: so many hits that it's like.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this, yeah, okay, because I'm definitely I'm like Tiler, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know the way you make me feel. That's on

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Speaker 2: Smooth Criminal leave Me Alone Alone?

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Speaker 3: That video I thought that was off Dangerous leave Me Alone,

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Speaker 3: the one where he's like going, he's on the ride.

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Speaker 2: It's on the bad rematched I'm looking at the bad.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was too but that was off dangerous man. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: off the walls.

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Speaker 3: As before we get to it, though, Matt, we do

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Speaker 3: like to get to know our guests a little bit

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Speaker 3: better by asking them, what's your favorite Michael Jackson album? Now,

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Speaker 3: what's your What's something from your search history that is

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Speaker 3: revealing about who you are?

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Speaker 2: Sure? How to fix a car? D I y, So.

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Speaker 3: That seems specific enough to me. I think I think

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Speaker 3: that was probably a successful search.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, no, it all worked out. I eventually

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Speaker 1: got there to what I was actually asking was how

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Speaker 1: come my engine keeps overheating? Yeah, and the answer was

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Man, could be a lot of things

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Speaker 1: where so so YouTube was very helpful in that. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the most recent thing.

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Speaker 3: That was Google A at a certain point, Yeah, just

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Speaker 3: lost all confidence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was it really.

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Speaker 1: It's as it turns out, you guys, there's a reason why,

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Speaker 1: you know, mechanics are get paid so much. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: because they, like they know about cars and stuff. You

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Speaker 1: think you can like, I'm overconfident enough that I'm like

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Speaker 1: I could learn this from YouTube. Videos, right, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out you can't. It turns out, I mean

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Speaker 1: you can, but not without doing more damage to your

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Speaker 1: your car than you would have if you had just

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Speaker 1: taken it somewhere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the door once. Oh I could do

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Speaker 2: that from YouTube.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay it it almost closed all the way.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's good. Okay, okay, the door was the wrong size. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that ship down. You shaved it down and it was

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Speaker 2: crooked as fuck and it closed almost.

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Speaker 1: You can learn a lot of things on YouTube, so

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Speaker 1: I was like, I bet I could also learn why

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Speaker 1: why come my car keep overheating?

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Speaker 2: And it turns out fucking can't? Dude. Wait, this is

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Speaker 2: I remember a little bit of insight because I have

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Speaker 2: we talked on the and this is the car that

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Speaker 2: you had to retrieve from up north.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that I just got back from up north selling.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah right, so you had you drove up there

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Speaker 2: it broke down, but then you had to get back down.

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Speaker 2: You swapped out a car with like a family friend

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Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah I had to go back up again

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Speaker 2: you to deal with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I took Francesca's mom's car back to LA

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Speaker 1: so that I could like be around for the baby,

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Speaker 1: and then I just drove it back up and then

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Speaker 1: dealt with my car by selling it to car Max,

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Speaker 1: which is like it sounds from that you're just like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: problem solved. You don't understand how awful this entire experience

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Speaker 1: has been. Like I just slept probably eleven hours in

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Speaker 1: a row, and not because I didn't get enough sleep

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Speaker 1: the other two nights. It was literally I was just

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Speaker 1: so relieved to have everything done that my body was

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Speaker 1: just like we're gonna shut down, Like some of our

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Speaker 1: organs haven't been resting for about a month. So it

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Speaker 1: was very stressful. But that's literally all of my overrated, underrated.

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Speaker 1: Everything you're gonna ask me is about this fucking car.

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Speaker 2: Car Yeah, perfect, and the overheating. It's like why your

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Speaker 2: baby have a fever? Like it's just like I don't know, man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's literally yeah yeah, because there's like a thousand things.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you know, they have all this like diagnostic equipment,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, nobody figured it out.

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Speaker 1: They went to the mechanics three times and everyone was

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Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know, man, Like usually I can make something up

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Speaker 2: to get your money, but like right, fucking confound. I

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Speaker 2: don't say this, I'm confounded.

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Speaker 1: Well, the West part was that they actually every time

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Speaker 1: they gave it back to me, they said, okay, problem solved.

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Speaker 2: The problem was not solved. It was just smoke. Billow

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Speaker 2: handed you the key. Yeah it was bad. It was bad. Look,

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Speaker 2: usually I make something up, but you look like a

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Speaker 2: man who's watched three to four YouTube videos all the

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Speaker 2: way through.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you know a thing or two about

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Speaker 1: cars from watching this guy on YouTube who has a

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Speaker 1: very thick Boston accent.

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Speaker 2: So therefore it knows about cars. You know, these guys,

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Speaker 2: what is something you think is underrated?

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Speaker 1: Underrated? I'll tell you what's underrated, you guys. The meter

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Speaker 1: on your car that says H and C with the

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Speaker 1: with the okay, so yeah, okay. So as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: H and C is hot and cold. And the second

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Speaker 1: thing is, that's not a sailboat, you guys. That is

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Speaker 1: like that, that's a thermometer. Yeah okay, yeah, So I

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Speaker 1: wish they had made that more clear because the CH

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Speaker 1: and C part, I've always been like, oh no, look

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Speaker 1: it looks like I'm I'm full on h that must

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Speaker 1: be good.

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Speaker 2: It's like, oh, it's giving me a sailing report. It

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Speaker 2: must be for high c's or yeah, smooth sailing. Oh

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Speaker 2: the way to God. I don't know why I get

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Speaker 2: the sailing report on my dashboard here. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It turns out that is a meter that tells you

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Speaker 1: how hot engine is, and so that's honestly one of

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Speaker 1: the most important things on your dashboard.

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Speaker 2: People think it's the thing that says f.

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Speaker 1: Or or ease turn out because yeah, you can like

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Speaker 1: fill up gas and stuff, but heat.

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Speaker 2: Don't pay attention to that one either, But go ahead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that heat meter is real. That's real important. It's

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Speaker 1: a hot cold yeah. Yeah, and it's very underrated because

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Speaker 1: you just think it's like I don't know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll let the I'll let the scientists deal with that number.

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Speaker 2: It's like the check engine light, like you check engine. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I treat that check engine light sometimes like my car

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Speaker 2: is trying to scam me. Yeah, you're just trying to

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Speaker 2: get my Yeah. Yeah, No, I don't care if all

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Speaker 2: of my tires are flat. I want them all to

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Speaker 2: have five pounds of pressure in each tire. Okay, it

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Speaker 2: helps attract I love the.

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Speaker 1: Check engine light because it's like you do want to

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Speaker 1: bring it in, but only because you turn that light off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, They're like, no, man, you're cooling just all fucked up.

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Speaker 2: Have you seen the H and the CE too. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, dude. I tried full on H all the time.

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Speaker 2: I'm always putting a lot of H in the car.

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Speaker 3: But I have one tire that consistently gets low and

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Speaker 3: guess what I do. I keep filling it back up,

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Speaker 3: the bag up and everything every whack.

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Speaker 2: This is how I know where the same fucking person

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Speaker 2: tell me why I got the same I was screw

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Speaker 2: in one of my tires that is causing a slow leak.

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Speaker 2: But part of me is like, if I could, there's

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Speaker 2: a homing up the street, wh will pass that ship

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Speaker 2: for thirty bucks? Like I just want it? And he's

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Speaker 2: like boo boom boom. He's like, now get on. In

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Speaker 2: my mind, I'm like, yeah, but what I really need

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Speaker 2: is a new set of tires. So I'm waiting for

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Speaker 2: the indicators to get worn down, so I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 2: just gonna swap out new tires. And I'm also currently

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Speaker 2: doing the thing where I fill it up every week.

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Speaker 2: And the guy knows me because like I'll buy a

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Speaker 2: bottle of water inside the gas station. I'm like, yo, broken,

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Speaker 2: you just charge me for the gas because don't have

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Speaker 2: seventy five cents and coins And he's like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: I gotcha, yeah from the desk. It was something I den'ty.

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Speaker 2: I hate. I hate when they pretend they can't right

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Speaker 2: out of my hand. It's like, oh you want me, sir.

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Speaker 1: You got to buy something and then we'll do cash

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Speaker 1: back and then get changed. And it's like, I know

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Speaker 1: you have a button mother, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I know your fingers on it, dude, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're caressing it by donut.

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Speaker 3: You're dramatically caressing it.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever done that, gone into a gas station

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Speaker 2: and do like a gilt purchase, like because you're gonna

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Speaker 2: ask for something. I every time I've done that, for

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Speaker 2: some reason, I buy the worst fucking thing in the store.

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Speaker 2: Like I somehow find the dustiest item in the gas

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Speaker 2: station mart and I'm like, yeah, these spicy old coated peanuts,

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Speaker 2: sure good man, And they're like, dude, really and they

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Speaker 2: so much dust. I don't know why I have like

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Speaker 2: a X men power to find like the oldest thing

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Speaker 2: in a gas station market? Right, well, can I get

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Speaker 2: that ship? You got in here. You think you're doing

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Speaker 2: a favor. I don't know, man, just got some old snap.

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Speaker 2: I'll eat it in front of you. Man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I'm washing my car using uh, your squeegee,

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Speaker 1: and it's only supposed to be the windows and I'm

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Speaker 1: doing literally the whole car.

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Speaker 2: So I will has a favorite to you.

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Speaker 1: I will buy this dusty part, hard boiled egg and

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Speaker 1: a ziplock bag.

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Speaker 2: For some reason.

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Speaker 3: They do have hard boiled eggs at gas sometimes for some.

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Speaker 2: But they do have it. What Matt is something? What

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Speaker 2: was the one we said underrated? Yeah? It was overrated? Here?

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Speaker 2: What do you think is overrated?

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Speaker 1: In Redwood City? Very overrated, had a very good rating.

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Speaker 3: That's so because our most recent guests said it was underrated.

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Speaker 1: So well, listen, they're wrong. You know who your most

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Speaker 1: recent guests probably works for.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, the one on El Camino Reale.

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Speaker 1: That's that's that one overrated sued by the Marshals. The Marshals,

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Speaker 1: that's right, Yes, okay, I will say Dulce who works there,

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Speaker 1: is very nice and she's she's doing her best. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I think she's a wonderful manager and or businesswoman

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Speaker 1: and or a person who runs the front count. But

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Speaker 1: I will say I took it over three times. Every

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Speaker 1: time they thought it was all done. Every they said

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Speaker 1: all everything fixed. Then I would drive for thirty minutes

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Speaker 1: and then I would go full on h again and

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Speaker 1: I go, oh, that's bad.

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Speaker 2: I know that now. That's not a sailboat. Yeah, yeah,

359
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 2: you lied to me, you tell you well, oh sir,

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00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 2: that's a sailboat.

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00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 4: Actually yeahoat, you're not in a sailboat, are you.

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00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're fine, then shut the fuck up, dude

363
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 2: and get on it.

364
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,400
Speaker 3: But you were able to offload the your ube.

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Speaker 1: I so then I went up and got I got

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Speaker 1: a quote from CarMax and uh I drove the car first.

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Speaker 2: I got it washed at like.

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Speaker 1: A yeah yeah, yeah, yeah it was and then you know,

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Speaker 1: I did the vacuum, which of course I had to

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Speaker 1: buy a fucking donut.

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Speaker 2: Yeah to get the vacuum. Yeage. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They were like, oh you guse it only takes change.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I know you're lying, and then uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I took it to the car Max. Great thing about

375
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Speaker 1: this car is that, uh it only over heats after

376
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Speaker 1: like forty five minutes of driving. Yeah, so I took

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Speaker 1: it in there and they like checked it all out.

378
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, it's just definitely a seventeen hundred dollars car.

379
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 1: And then they gave me the money and uh, and

380
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 1: that paid for the new radiator.

381
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 2: That I put in there. That didn't help, So you

382
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: net it out to zero.

383
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 1: I needed, you know what, two hundred dollars. Two hundred dollars.

384
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: So everyone's eating chili's tonight, right, Yeah.

385
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 3: All right, Matt, we're gonna take a quick break and

386
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Speaker 3: when we come back, we're gonna.

387
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Speaker 2: Talk about bad has Bar. We'll be right back.

388
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,639
Speaker 3: And we're back, and Matt, it feels like we should

389
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Speaker 3: probably start pretty basic with just what.

390
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 2: What did you?

391
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 3: Okay, news, can you explain to me what is it?

392
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 2: Jew who was Moses Abraham? Is that the same Abraham

393
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Speaker 2: from my book of ghost Stories?

394
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 1: That's exact same Abraham as you know, fifteenth President of.

395
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Speaker 2: The United States. Just explain what has Burrah is?

396
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: Yes, So loosely, the word hasbara or hasbara or however

397
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 1: you want to pronounce it comes from the Hebrew word

398
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 1: meaning to explain, So it's like an explanation and so

399
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: that's it's essentially what it is is. It's propaganda. It's

400
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 1: an Israeli like public relations spin, just the way you know,

401
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: the United States government has its own public relations, it

402
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 1: does its own spin. The Israeli government does it as well.

403
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:58,679
Speaker 1: The difference is that within Israel, their kind of internal

404
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: public relations is different than they're outward facing public relations.

405
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 1: The stuff that you know, they they send to you know,

406
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: Western English speaking audience is going to be different than

407
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: a Hebrew audience at home. So yeah, hasbara is just

408
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: it's a euphemism for propaganda, and it is something that

409
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 1: for a while. It's only recently that the word has

410
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: become kind of poisonous.

411
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 2: You know.

412
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 1: Now people know that that's what they call propaganda out there,

413
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: so you know, so they they don't they don't say

414
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: it as much as they used to, but they you know,

415
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: for a while there, it was just the euphemism of choice,

416
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: because everyone would would say, like, we need a way

417
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 1: to explain the actions of our country to people who

418
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: maybe you know, don't understand why we need to bomb

419
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: this hospital or you know, mass arrest a bunch of

420
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: people without trial, stuff.

421
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: Like that, and just to ensure the constant flow of

422
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: like economic and military support too. In the other direction,

423
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 2: to help just always kind of keep the levels at

424
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: a place where people in the United States don't get

425
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: so incensed with things that they really start demanding.

426
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Speaker 1: Right, especially stuff that you know, if it were done

427
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: by any other country in which like the American people

428
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: or Western people don't have kind of an automatic like

429
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: sympathy for you would be like, hey, I demand that

430
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: this country stop doing that, and hasbara is meant to

431
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: be like, well, here's why we need to right, See,

432
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: it's the explanation for things that you know, you see

433
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: a version of events on social media and you go like, damn,

434
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: that seems like super cruel and bad. But there has

435
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: to be a reason for it, like why why would

436
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: you know, why would the Israeli people do this? It

437
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: must there must be more to it, And they go,

438
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: there is more to it, and here's our explanation why

439
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: this is okay.

440
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, just fill in those banks exactly, more sophisticated, more

441
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 3: tailored to each of the countries and specifically the US.

442
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, the US and the West in general, like yeah,

443
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: because of specific like Western sentiments and morality like we

444
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: you know, as a Western liberal states like Europe or

445
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, the European Union, like in the UK and

446
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: America and Canada. You have like a certain morality that

447
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: you know, we all kind of profess to have where

448
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: it's like killing killing innocence is bad and you know

449
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and yeah, and and you know, so

450
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: you need someone to say why in some cases that's okay,

451
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: or why what you're seeing is not actually what you

452
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: saw and you shouldn't believe anyone but us.

453
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you guests hosted an episode of It could

454
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 3: Happen here with Sharen Lana Unis.

455
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: That's right, and you.

456
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 3: Talked about your own experience with has Bara and going

457
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 3: back to a birthright the Birthright trip, that's right. Can

458
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 3: you can you talk about birthright what that is? And like,

459
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 3: I don't know that was a helpful putting that I

460
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 3: knew what birthrate was, or I thought I knew what

461
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 3: birthright was, but I hadn't really put it in the

462
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 3: context of Hasbara, Yeah until I kind of heard you

463
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: talk about it.

464
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

465
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 1: So the Birthright Trip, for those who don't know, is

466
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: a free trip that young Jews from I think age

467
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: is like as young as eighteen, as old as twenty six,

468
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: something like that. The Israeli government will pay for Jews

469
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: all around the world to come visit Israel. And it's

470
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: like an all expenses paid trip in which you go

471
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: there and you have a very what's the word curate

472
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: dyl curated, a curious, a curated trip to Israel where

473
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: you see kind of what they want you to see,

474
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, you see the nightlife in Tel Aviv, and

475
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: you see the kibbutzus in the north and the the Masada,

476
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: and you see all of these like amazing ancient artifacts

477
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: of Jewish history, and you feel like close to it.

478
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: You'd see the.

479
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: Whaling Wall and and you are you know you you

480
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: do if you're a non religious Jew like me. You

481
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: put on to fill in for the first time, which

482
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: is like the this wrap, this rappy thing you put

483
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: around your arm, and you wear this little box on

484
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: your head.

485
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 2: It looks like a GoPro.

486
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: And and you Davin for the first time and all

487
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: this stuff, and it's like it's an experience that is

488
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: one meant to either get you to move to Israel

489
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: or get you to go back and tell everyone how

490
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: great Israel is. I mean that is essentially the trip,

491
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: and the trip that I took was people who were

492
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: all secular. There was very few of us were like

493
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: practicing or like, you know, none of us were like kosher, right, sure,

494
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: we were all trace and so like it was meant

495
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: to be. Like, you know, it doesn't matter whether or

496
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: not you're even be an atheist. The point is this

497
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: is your land and it's your right by blood to

498
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: be here. And the craziest thing that happened was that

499
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: there was a giant like event, a mega event at

500
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: an arena in which all of the birthright trips got

501
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: together and the head speaker, like the headliner was Benjamin

502
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: Nettan Yahoo, who was Prime Minister at that time.

503
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: This isn't like twenty e twenty twelve.

504
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: This motherfucker has been the prime minister for so long Church.

505
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. It is wild that like we keep saying,

506
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 2: you know.

507
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: This is the only democracy in the Middle East, and

508
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: it's like is it because this guy has been like

509
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: how the dictator every like forever dude, and.

510
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 3: Its kind of yeah that that story blows my mind

511
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 3: because it just well I guess it. It puts in

512
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 3: the proper context like how important, like how much of

513
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 3: a priority this narrative is this, like yes, creating building

514
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 3: this narrative like convincing people they have Net and Yahoo

515
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: speaking to children, yes, yes.

516
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: Like who could make you feel more important than the

517
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: leader of the telling y'all as young people, like the

518
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: future is in your hands, and like the future of

519
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: Israel is in your hands.

520
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: It was like and I remember that was the moment

521
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: in which I was like, oh damn, Like I knew

522
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: that getting the youth Jewish youth of the world on

523
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: their side was like important to them, but I didn't

524
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: know how important because I was like, this is the

525
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: Prime Minister is gonna like come here, Like he doesn't

526
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: have better things to do than to talk to a

527
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: bunch of like brats about like about how great the

528
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: country is and about how they're Actually he kept telling us,

529
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: He's like, you're all from great countries, but you're from here.

530
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: This is where you're from, which was for me, you know,

531
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: another kind of like red flag, because.

532
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: You had those moments like throughout it, like like yes,

533
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: like were you kind of cynical going into it? Are

534
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: you kind of nube or you had your own worldview?

535
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: And when things kind of butted up against that, You're like,

536
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: wait a second.

537
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: At this point, I was, you know, cynical enough about

538
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: Israel because I'd been to like college and I'd gotten

539
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: some perspective on, you know, the the nuances of the

540
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: Israel Palestine conflict. I wasn't like a full anti Zionist

541
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: Jew at that point. I was just someone who was

542
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: more critical than a lot of my peers and U

543
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: but not you know, critical and enough to you know,

544
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:05,479
Speaker 1: pass to pass up a free trip. And so you know,

545
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: for me, I was I was on the lookout for

546
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: like some of these things. But I was also there

547
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: because I truly was like, no, they're right, I need

548
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: to see this with my own eyes. I mean, that's

549
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: how it's like build. It's like, come see Israel for yourself,

550
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: as if like what you're seeing somehow negates the things

551
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: you're not seeing that you've heard about.

552
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: You know.

553
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: It's like, come see South Africa for yourself. It's like, yeah,

554
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: this place seems pretty great as long as you're not

555
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: in a bantoo stand.

556
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: You know, who are those people in that prison? Bad guys?

557
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: Bad guys are there. You know, we got great whites.

558
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: You can see great whites down here.

559
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh they're surf down here, you know. But yeah,

560
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: it was like for me, I was trying to. You know,

561
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: I was trying to have a free trip, and I

562
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: was trying to like a little bit be like I

563
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: want to see it for myself. And I think for

564
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: me it had the opposite effect that they were going for,

565
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: because what they were going for was you're going to

566
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: see how great this place is, and then you're going

567
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: to start questioning every time someone criticizes it as like, oh,

568
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: they're lying about us. And this was something that Benjamin

569
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: Netnahu directly said to us. He said, you know, there's

570
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: a lot of lies out there, and the only way

571
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: you can fight lies is with the truth. So tell

572
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: people what you saw here. And then he proceeded to

573
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: tell us what we saw there, and yeah, here's a bullet.

574
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: A democracy that was flourishing with opportunities for many people,

575
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: a diverse population.

576
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: That kind of right, And it was a lot of

577
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: you know, stuff that was going to appeal to young liberal,

578
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, college age kids, which was like you saw

579
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: gay people existing, you saw women with the bikinis and

580
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: not being told that they had to cover their face.

581
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: It was very much like compared to those Arabs over there, right,

582
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: you know, that was like, yeah, that was the thing

583
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: was we are you know, even the phrase the most

584
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, they say, with the only democracy in the

585
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: Middle East, everything is like in the Middle East, everything

586
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: is in the region in comparison to the Arabs, And

587
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: that is meant to appeal to a Western audience, which

588
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: is by and large bias against Arabs and Muslims. So

589
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: we're more willing to believe that, you know, everything Arabs

590
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: do is backwards and problematic, you know, and therefore they

591
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: are less deserving of our sympathies.

592
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: And I think that's an important piece of context. Like

593
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 3: this is for people who disagree with Israeli policy, like

594
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 3: in a way, you know, yeah, that Israel is very

595
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 3: protective of this is what you're up again, Like yeah,

596
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 3: this level like they fund children who unremarkable children not

597
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: to be unremarkable anybody. You're just a kid, and they

598
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: treat you like an Olympic athlete, Like, yes, better than

599
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: an Olympic athlete. Olympic athletes are like this food fucking sucks,

600
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: Like yeah, you.

601
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.

602
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: So I don't know, that was just an important piece

603
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 3: of context for me in the whole, like that. It

604
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 3: is a massive and vast propaganda machine.

605
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, itself is about propagandizing. I mean it is compare

606
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: it to like selling you a timeshare. You know, it's

607
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: like they they want to hard sell you on the

608
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: idea of moving there or telling people that it's good,

609
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: and you know, it's once you kind of dig deeper

610
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: into like well.

611
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: Wait, what, why do you know? What?

612
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: Why why do you care where I live? That's when

613
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: you start running into what is going to be the

614
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: main issue with the Zionist project, which is that they

615
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: need to atabt publish and maintain a Jewish demographic majority

616
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: in Israel because it's the only way they can continue

617
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: to be a quote democratic state at least within the

618
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: within the borders of you know, actual Israel, like forty

619
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: eight or whatever, and not in the occupied territories obviously,

620
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: because that's just straight apartheid, but within Israel, like without

621
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: that demographic majority, their whole fear is that like Arabs

622
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: who have a higher birth rate are gonna you know,

623
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: be more and more. There's gonna be more Arabs, more

624
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: Arab voters, and therefore they're going to vote out the Jews.

625
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: And so it is.

626
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: Part of the project to get us to like uproot

627
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: our lives and move to Israel right, and they do

628
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: that in a series of ways that I find to

629
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: be like blatantly anti Semitic. I mean, the birthright trip

630
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: is at least them trying to like, you know, catch

631
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: more flies with honey. The vinegar is them trying to

632
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: convince you that everybody hates you, Like, no matter where

633
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: you are in the world, if you're a Jew, you

634
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: are hated by your neighbors. And I feel that that

635
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: kind of instilling that paranoia is like blatantly anti Semitic.

636
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, I mean, like that's where you

637
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: kind of see the levels at which it works, right,

638
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: because you'll have Americans in the United States that have

639
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 2: been exposed to that who sort of continue to carry

640
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: that torch of like putting forward those talking points and

641
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: also getting their friends around them to be more sympathetic

642
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: because they can say, oh, I know someone who's been

643
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: to Israel. They've only told me great things about it.

644
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: So that's like the first layer of like inoculating people

645
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 2: like towards any sort of criticisms. And then you get

646
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: to a moment like October seventh, and people really begin

647
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: to shift their focus there and then like you see

648
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: the propaganda and the talking points come out in a

649
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: very aggressive way, Like what, how do you see that shift?

650
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 2: Because obviously this is something like the term has been

651
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: like you since like the eighties. But what I'm and

652
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: a lot of critics of like these government have always

653
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: pointed at like this policy of basically gaslighting people and

654
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 2: be like, no, that's you're not seeing what you're seeing

655
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: kind of thing, right, yeah, but what is that like now? Like,

656
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: how have you seen it ramped up? Because I mean

657
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: when you've come on, we've talked about like what's happening

658
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 2: in Gaza from time to time, not always specifically about

659
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: like the propaganda dimensions, but now what like just how

660
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: are you seeing like the evolution of that starting from

661
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 2: or you know, October to even now, because I'm sure

662
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: there's like moments where if things get even more aggressive

663
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 2: or slightly more wacky or whatever, but yet.

664
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: So like, the interesting thing about the attack on the

665
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: seventh was that at that moment, you know, the day

666
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: of the seventh and even in subsequent weeks after, the

667
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: Israeli government had the goodwill of everybody in the West

668
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: because they saw, you know, a terrorist attack that you know,

669
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: no matter what way you slice it, you did see

670
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: innocent people being killed by hamas and you know, different

671
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: groups within Gaza, and so people were just like, oh,

672
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: I'm against terrorists, right, and so that goodwill being squandered

673
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: was the really interesting thing that subsequent to the seventh

674
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: the amount of death and destruction that was immediately like

675
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: reigning upon the Palestinians in the Gaza strip like very

676
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: quickly turned people. And I think the Haspar had a

677
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: lot to do with it because they the Israeli PR

678
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: machine was just not prepared, like people had not been

679
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: media trained in a while. Is my guess that you

680
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: had people going on these like you know, news magazines

681
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: and talk you know, news talk shows and panels and whatnot,

682
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: with no sense of I have to present this for

683
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: a Western audience so that they understand it. Instead, you

684
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: had people asking simple questions, like you know anchors on

685
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: the BBC. I remember one of them asked, I think

686
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: enough Tolly Bennett is an Israeli politician, like well, what

687
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 1: are you guys doing to minimize the deaths of civilians

688
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: in Gaza? And he just yelled at him. He just

689
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: said like, come on, man, you know what the you're

690
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 1: going to ask me that? After what they did, you're

691
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: going to ask me that, you know, like you're going

692
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: to care about that. And it was just such a

693
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: it was came from such a place of just being

694
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: tired of wearing the mask that people, I think started

695
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: seeing more and more the way in which Israeli society

696
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: was just like, we're okay with murdering these people, like

697
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: way more okay than you guys thought we were, you know. Yeah,

698
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: And so after the seventh you saw people, you know,

699
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: being told basically not to believe their eyes. What they're

700
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: seeing is, you know, not what they're actually seeing. Everything

701
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: that you think, you know is backwards. If you see

702
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: a video that shows a hospital being bombed, you have

703
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: to not immediately blame Israel for doing it. You have

704
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: to hold withhold your judgment until we tell you whether

705
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: or not we did it right. And then you know,

706
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: just kind of saying it was hamas and they kept

707
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: doing it. And the thing is, in the past, whenever

708
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: there have been any of flare ups, so to speak, in.

709
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 2: Israel or in Gaza.

710
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: A lot of the war crimes that people have been

711
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: exposed to in the West, there's been an outcry at first,

712
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: and then there's been a wait wait, wait, let's get

713
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: all the fact straight first, and then a few weeks

714
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: of radio silence where it goes out of the news cycle,

715
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: and then they admit, Like, for example, the murder of

716
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: Out zero journalist shrin abu Achlet was big news when

717
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: it first happened. It just seemed to be a straight

718
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: execution of this famous journalist. And then the Israelis denied it.

719
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: They said we didn't do this, They said it was

720
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: a you know, Palestinian plot to make us look bad.

721
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: And then enough time had passed in between, you know,

722
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: that story got out of the news cycle, and then

723
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: eventually it was just I think they had no choice

724
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: but to admit it because of their own journalists within

725
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: Israel saying yeah, this is definitely us right, and people stopped.

726
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't a big news story anymore, so

727
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: people were just like, oh, we forgot it. We moved

728
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: on to whatever other thing. Because of just the scale

729
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: of the destruction. Since the seventh it has not left

730
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: the news cycle. So they've found themselves not having the

731
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: time to wait for people to forget right. And so

732
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: you see very clearly how the sausage is made, where

733
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: every time there's some bad news about Israel. Then they

734
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: counter it with like something bad is happening to Israel

735
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: via the international community. For example, when the ICJ International

736
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: Court of Justice finally came out with their uh, you know,

737
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: preliminary ruling on whether or not this could be a

738
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: genocide and they said yes, it could be. Immediately after,

739
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: maybe less than twenty four hours, there were there was

740
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: charges all over the Israel Israeli media and over Western

741
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: media that UNRA, which is the UN's you know, basically

742
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: Palestinian refugee group that like helped Palestinian refugee specifically, was

743
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: complicit in October seventh, like UNRA is the UN did.

744
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: October seventh was like the big thing. It was everywhere.

745
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, everyone was talking about rapidly the

746
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: United States stopped funding UNRA all of this stuff, and

747
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 1: then it came the story was like talking about whether

748
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: or not UNRA was complicit in these attacks on the seventh,

749
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: and it stopped. We stopped talking about how the ICJ

750
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: just said it looks like this is very possibly a genocide.

751
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 2: Happened, right right, yeah, exactly.

752
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: And so you know that the strategy I think of

753
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: like trying to stuff the media with a bunch of

754
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: counter points, a bunch of talking points is rubbed off

755
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: on people in a way where they're they just feel

756
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: like they're insulting our intelligence, you know. And I think

757
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: if you watch Piers Morgan you see a perfect example

758
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: of that.

759
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: This guy is.

760
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: A total fucking shill. Like he is someone who loves Trump,

761
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: he loves anything conservative, he hates woke pee pooh. You know,

762
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: he's just like but with him, what he likes more

763
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 1: than anything else is himself and his own He thinks

764
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: he's a genius. So when an Israeli PR guy comes

765
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: on there and can't can tell him exactly how many

766
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: Hamas have died, but can't tell him how many civilians

767
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 1: have died, even though it's like, well wouldn't the number

768
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: be the rest of the number is therefore civilians, And

769
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: he's like, no, I can't say, And it's like, but

770
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: you know how many Hamas. There's a great video where

771
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: he's just like he can't believe that this guy does

772
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: not have a better answer for him, And Piers Morgan

773
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: is like, since the seventh has been has been famous

774
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: for asking every guest whether or not they condemn Hamas,

775
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: and even he has been like, no, you have to

776
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: at least lie to me. You have to like be good.

777
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: You at least have to give me something plausible. The

778
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: Hasbara has to be good so I can explain to

779
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: people why you guys are good. If you're not going

780
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: to give me that, then I'm gonna yell at you.

781
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: And I feel like that is a lot of a

782
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: lot of people recently.

783
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 5: All right, let's let's take a quick break. We'll be

784
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 5: right back, and we're we're back.

785
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 2: Hell yeah. One thing you know, I realized too of

786
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: like the effect of the PR machine is like especially

787
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 2: in like you know, like in the United States, Hollywood specifically,

788
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: are there a lot of groups that are called like

789
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: Creatives for Peace or these other groups that are clearly

790
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: doing like the bidding of like what like the Israeli

791
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: government or people who are sympathetic to the Zionist project

792
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: or like you know, there's like the most recent thing

793
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 2: was that Emmy nominated news thing It's Bisan from Gaza

794
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: and I'm Still Alive, was nominated for an Emmy And

795
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: this group came out that's like Creatives for Peace, like

796
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: Creative Community for Peace. Yeah, Creative the CCP came out

797
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: and said, hey, we really think this is like the Emmys,

798
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 2: like the the Academy should really actually take back this

799
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: nomination because this person is tied to like terrorist organizations

800
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: or whatever merely for this is a this is a

801
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 2: like a news piece that like won an Edward R.

802
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: Merle Award. Like we're talking about legit journalism right on

803
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 2: the ground.

804
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: This is someone who is not a journalist who like

805
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: flew into Gaza for you know, oh, this is a Palestinian.

806
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: This is an actual on the ground gaz and who

807
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: is there giving a first person account of what's happening.

808
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,439
Speaker 2: Right, And so like you see this like these weird

809
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: moments like why would they why would these people get

810
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: together to then like you know, like Deborah Messing and

811
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 2: like yeah, Selma Blair like to it, and you're like

812
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 2: what and but they are clearly you know, they're they

813
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: they are acting on whatever they feel is the most

814
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: beneficial to the optics for what is happening right.

815
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: And this group, in particular, Creative Community for Peace, is

816
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: a group that has their origins in the beginnings of

817
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 1: the BDS movement. So as soon as BDS started happening,

818
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: you know, people boycott divestment sanction, and one of the

819
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: key components of that is a cultural boycott of Israel.

820
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 1: And by the way, these are tactics that were used

821
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: by people who were against apartheid in South Africa, right,

822
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: and this is it's a very effective tactic. In order

823
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: to counter that, Creative Community for Peace has been like,

824
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: we're we got to make sure that we get the

825
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: celebrities on our side. So we're gonna do everything we

826
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: can to cozy up the celebrities so that there the

827
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: entire Creative Community for Peace, like name is some bullshit.

828
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 2: They're not about peace.

829
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: What they are about is making sure that BDS is

830
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: not a tactic that catches on. Right, it's a reaction

831
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: to a non violent political movement for ending of apartheid

832
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 1: in Israel. And they're like no, no, no, no, no,

833
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: that bad.

834
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: We're about peace, right right, Exactly, Like that woman shouldn't

835
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: have an emmy. It's like, yeah, anything to do with it.

836
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: This twenty four year old journalist in Gaza whose videos

837
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: are I survived another bombing. Yeah, it's bad because and

838
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 1: it's the great thing about that story is they couldn't

839
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: even call her Hamas because that wasn't they tie her

840
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: to the PFLP, right, and so it's like they can't

841
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: they can't, you know, they usually just say, oh they're Hamas,

842
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: this person is Hamas, but in this case, they're like,

843
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: we got a video of her speaking at a rally, right,

844
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: and so let's we're gonna call her a terrorist.

845
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, but like you just see these like

846
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: talking points or sort of stories either intentionally covered or

847
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: not covered, Like you also see how that's acting on

848
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 2: our media. Like the prisoner prisoner abuse scandal, Yeah, fucking

849
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 2: was like nowhere right, yeah, and like it took me

850
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 2: reading like many other things. I mean, like most people

851
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: were talking about it, but like if you were watching MSNBC,

852
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 2: read the New York Time or Washington Post or CNN,

853
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: you probably got very little on it. And for all

854
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: of the emphasis that was happening on like you know,

855
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: sexual assaults on the seventh like and the like, the

856
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 2: weird lack of visibility on something that was happening that

857
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 2: was documented even on video was like very alarming. It

858
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: had me really feeling like truly I'm like, oh shit,

859
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 2: like this is this is fucking wild. Like I'm seeing shit,

860
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: I'm reading reports even from like Haretz or whatever in Israel,

861
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 2: and I'm not We're not. We're barely getting anything like

862
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 2: that here, and you realize too, like to the point

863
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: of what Hasbara is meant to do. It's also for audiences,

864
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: especially in the United States, because the United States is

865
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: like Israel's golden goose, number one supporter. Yeah, like, it's

866
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: really important that people in the United States that the

867
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 2: tide doesn't turn against them. And it does feel like

868
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: in polling most people are saying like, yeah, we need

869
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 2: to knock this shit off, like yeah, seems immediately, and

870
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: so it feels even more strange in America too, to

871
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 2: be like we all know this is bad, we're all

872
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 2: saying this shouldn't be happening, and then we even have

873
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 2: our own politicians being like noah, no, no, it's all good,

874
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 2: like don't worry, like right, just just avert your eyes children,

875
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: because the adults are actually doing something. And that's what

876
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: I think is really insidious part of how it's affecting

877
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: the discourse here because not only that anyone who advocates

878
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: for like Palestinian personhood is treated like some kind of

879
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 2: pariah or threat to other people's safety, right, And I think, yeah,

880
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 2: and I think another dimension of all of this working

881
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: in conjunction is a lot of the emphasis when talking

882
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: about what's happening in Gaza the West Bank is like

883
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 2: to not talk about the main struggle between Palestinian people

884
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: and what is happened, like what the Israeli military is

885
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: doing to them. It's always like shifting the focus to, well,

886
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 2: you know what Iran is actually blocking all of this,

887
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, no, no, Like, the thing that

888
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 2: I'm really concerned about is watch, like I'm seeing really

889
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 2: disturbing images and accounts come out of Gaza in the

890
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 2: West Bank.

891
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 1: Right, I'm seeing literal like video of babies being killed

892
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: in Gaza, Palestinian children being killed on a regular basis.

893
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: Rawful shit. But again, like all like our media will

894
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 2: pick up talking points to then do the same thing

895
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: because obviously in the same time, you know, like APAC

896
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: and groups like that were huge supporters of the invasion

897
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 2: of Iraq. Because theres always to be like, yeah, yeah, exactly,

898
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 2: that's that's it now, exactly, thank you, it's exactly they

899
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 2: write this. Yeah.

900
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 1: No, I mean it is like the Hasbara is meant

901
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: to make people in the West complacent to what happens

902
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 1: in Israel, what the Israeli government chooses to do and

903
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: in Gaza and whatnot, and you know, things like limited

904
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: coverage of what happened and that I was style timon

905
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: are you know I can't pronounce anything good? Yeah, But

906
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: the prison in Israel that in which we there's a

907
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: video of not just the sexual assault of a Polycinian prisoner,

908
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: but also video of then the you know, people in

909
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: the Kanesset and you know, Israeli parliament debating whether or

910
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: not they're allowed to do that right, right, right? And

911
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: it brings to mind like us debating in the United

912
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: States are we allowed to torture? Are we allowed to

913
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: have Guantanamo? And and you know, totally missing out on

914
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: the question of like are these people human or not human?

915
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: Do they have the same rights as us? Or do

916
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 1: they not have the same rights as us? And it's

917
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: like when you have a society that's just decided, you know,

918
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: takes as a matter of course that Arabs are not

919
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: equal human beings, then of course that's not the question

920
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: they're going to ask. They're not going to ask is

921
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: it right? Right, They're gonna ask, well, is it legal?

922
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: And you know, so I think the United States and

923
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: Israel not that different in terms of the way in

924
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: which we have a bias against a racist bias against Arabs.

925
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 2: And you know.

926
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: We we are going to cover a story like that

927
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 1: as a couple of bad apples, you know what I mean,

928
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: as opposed to as a part of a bigger narrative

929
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: of the Israeli brutality against Palestinians. And the reason that

930
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: we do that is not because of necessarily because of

931
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: like some nefarious group. It's not like a the news

932
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: media all gets together in a cabal, right, right, Like

933
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: how people you know can quickly veer into the lane

934
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: of anti Semitism where they just go, oh, the capal

935
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: of of people getting together and deciding to do no.

936
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: It's it's very much about the bias that America and

937
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: American journalists by and large have towards Israel being the

938
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: good guy. For better or worse, Israel is the one

939
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 1: that reflects our values, right, And you know, you can't

940
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 1: you can't look at a story like what was happening

941
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: in that prison as something that exists as part of

942
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,439
Speaker 1: a larger context. You have to be like, you know, yeah,

943
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 1: they got some crazy guys over there, you know, it's

944
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: too bad.

945
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: It's really too bad, you know.

946
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: And and it's this kind of refusal to see and

947
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: condemn the society itself as deeply racist, as deeply deeply supremacist.

948
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 2: We're looking into like a funhouse mirror as Americans like Israel,

949
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: like Israel's policies too, because look, maybe we see the

950
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 2: settler colonial aspirations and we we wreck game recognize game

951
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,760
Speaker 2: there too. And in the same way when it comes

952
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 2: to have reckonings with like true like the actual oppressive

953
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 2: systemic forces that act on people, there doesn't matter if

954
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 2: it's here or abroad. It's like, unless it's specifically to dehumanize,

955
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 2: then it's like, well, look what they don't allow their

956
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,439
Speaker 2: women to do or look at it. But if it's

957
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 2: if it's if it's about actually a self critique or

958
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 2: something that we are we have a hand in, like

959
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: you know, the Israeli military, then it turns into brain

960
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 2: gymnastics contortion act where we do everything but have a

961
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 2: real discussion around what isn't or who is or is

962
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: not the person. Although you know, the reflexively, it feels

963
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: very easy for them, especially American media, to be like, well,

964
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: you know, Unfortunately they don't look like us. Like the

965
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: brain thing obviously was good for ratings because like Western

966
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 2: European looking people, but anything else, we just have this

967
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: reflexive switch to say, yeah, the oppressions is kind of

968
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 2: part of it.

969
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like well, you know, well, what would you

970
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: do if you were surrounded by Arabs? Like that's kind

971
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: of like what they that's their ex explanation for a

972
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: lot of things is like well if what if what

973
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 1: if America was surrounded by Arabs? Like right, yeah, wouldn't

974
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,879
Speaker 1: you be scared? And wouldn't you do everything you can

975
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: and build big, big walls to wall yourself off? And

976
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily untrue because American states, but the United States,

977
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: we love to build big walls to keep brown people out.

978
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

979
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: The difference is is that like in Israel, when they

980
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: talk about this stuff, they talk about it as if

981
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: they are that they have a right to do what

982
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: is essentially colonialism, and we when people try to put

983
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: it in the context of like, oh, this is colonialism,

984
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 1: then they go no, no, no, no, no, no no, no,

985
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: this is not this is actually anti colonialism. We are

986
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: actually indigenous, and so they have to layer on this

987
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: like bullshit. When it was Zionism was a colonial project explicitly,

988
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: so you know, this was something that they said back

989
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: when colonialism was not considered bad. It was considered like

990
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: how a people did self determination, you know, it was

991
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: like creating a do you know, creating a colony was

992
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 1: just like that's how we are strong, you know. And

993
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: then once decolonization became kind of the norm, like colonialism

994
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: became kind of a dirty word, they had to change

995
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: what they were saying they were doing from you know,

996
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: colonialism to oh no, no, we're actually an indigenous rights movement,

997
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: which is like completely bullshit. I mean, it's just like

998
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: one of those things where you can't you can't And

999
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: this is Hasbara's I think biggest issue of late is

1000
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: you can't be like we are. You know, we are

1001
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: the liberal bastion of the world. We love everything you

1002
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: love as like a as a leftist. Everything you love

1003
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: is a liberal you know, gay people, women's rights and

1004
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: all this stuff. Bleeding heartshit. We're that. But also we

1005
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: are the outposts of the West and our civilization. We

1006
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: are the only people keeping the mongrel hordes, you know,

1007
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: the Arab, the evil Arab out and you're like you

1008
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: can't actually appeal to These are two different demographics you're

1009
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,439
Speaker 1: trying to appeal to. It's like you're trying to feel

1010
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: appeal to both the fascists and to the lives.

1011
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 2: And to the people. It's like, we got a little

1012
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 2: bit of something for people who believe all people are

1013
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 2: human beings desert, and we also got a little bit

1014
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 2: of something for people go these motherfuckers ain't people. Yeah right, Yeah.

1015
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: It like that sort of that balancing act is so

1016
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: it's tricky, yeah, and it just targes sort of stomach

1017
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 2: or takes seriously a lot of the time because like

1018
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 2: what is being said it juxtaposed with what is happening.

1019
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: It just you're like, it's so clearly, it's so clearly

1020
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: lies in propaganda. It's so clearly them trying to like,

1021
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: you know, get you to turn off a part of

1022
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: your brain. And and I think, you know, as this

1023
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: has been the most I've ever seen in terms of

1024
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: people who have kind of woken up to this reality

1025
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: of what Israel like actually is and what they actually

1026
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: are is just like a brutal, right wing apartheid state

1027
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: that its existence is predicated, at least in its current formation,

1028
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: its existence is predicated on the ethnic cleansing and the

1029
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: disenfranchisement of Palestinians. And you know, if you don't know that,

1030
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: you know that now at least a lot of people

1031
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: are waking up to that, and I think, yeah, and

1032
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, after a while, you know, you

1033
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: just go like, oh, now I get why. Every time, like,

1034
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: if a family, you know, has one member who is

1035
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: like is a Hamasque guy or a plo guy and

1036
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: they haven't, you know, done an act of terror or

1037
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: they did let's say, a stabbing or something. It's not

1038
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: just a case of Okay, they're going to arrest the

1039
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: guy and he's going to be in jail because he

1040
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: did a crime. They're gonna bulldoze the house of the family.

1041
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 1: You're just like, what, wait, why why do that? That's

1042
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: not normal. That's not something that like if that happens

1043
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: in the United States, if they're just like, oh, man,

1044
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: that gang member did a shooting, let's bulldoze their house

1045
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: like that shit is you go, Oh, this is a

1046
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: that's not good. This is definitely about something big. Yeah,

1047
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 1: this is definitely about a land project.

1048
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 2: I'm American, and I'm even like, wait, right, is that

1049
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 2: like leal, Yeah, are you like allowed to do that?

1050
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: Like why would the whole family gets their house bulldoze?

1051
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: And it's not to say the United States doesn't have

1052
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, tons of history regarding like stealing land. Obviously,

1053
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: I mean we do that. That's how we are here.

1054
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: But it's a you know, it's a question of trying

1055
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: to convince us that it's something else that it's like, oh,

1056
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: you know, the only way to fight terror is to

1057
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: do ethnic cleansing. And that's when you yeah, you know, is.

1058
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 3: There anything that's making you feel hopeful? Because from my perspective,

1059
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 3: it feels like we're like there there was this movement,

1060
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 3: there were the student protests, there was and as things

1061
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 3: have settled, the gravitational pool of the Hasbara and just

1062
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 3: of the sort of legacy mainstream media perspective has pulled

1063
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 3: things in that direction. Like it feels like we're losing ground,

1064
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 3: right and like the student protests now have like settled

1065
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 3: in the mainstream imagination as like people sharing you know,

1066
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 3: anti Semitic is the word that you see used a

1067
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 3: lot of the time. So like, how how are you

1068
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 3: feeling about like the state of the movement as it's

1069
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 3: currently constituted and just that wholen.

1070
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not like by nature someone who is

1071
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: like optimistic. I just it's it's this is for me

1072
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: has been something that because I've you know, studied it

1073
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: and cared about it for a long time, I've always

1074
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: I've never seen it as like completely intractable. I've always

1075
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: seen it with the view of like, eventually this is

1076
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: going to end. I mean, there's just like you know,

1077
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: but the question of like in my lifetime has always

1078
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: been kind of like I don't know about that, but

1079
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: you know, but I will be honest, I've been a

1080
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: lot more optimistic in the last few months because I

1081
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: had not put as much stock I think into a

1082
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: lot of things that maybe more if you're new to

1083
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: this issue, you might put more stock into something like

1084
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,439
Speaker 1: the student protests or whatnot and go like, oh man,

1085
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: this seems like something could happen. Like I was, like,

1086
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 1: that's a great thing to me. I've been what I've

1087
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: been putting stock into is kind of the broad American

1088
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: public opinion on this issue is changing because of the

1089
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: continued focus of news media on this, even if it's biased.

1090
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: News media and like social media has been a huge

1091
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: thing for this because the main issue I've always seen

1092
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: is that people don't know about it. People just kind

1093
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: of go on their like more basic assumptions about who

1094
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: the good guys and who the bad guys are, or

1095
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: they like opt out by saying, I don't know, man.

1096
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: It seems like they've been.

1097
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: Really kind of for thousands of years and it's very

1098
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: complicated and I'm not going to figure this out. And

1099
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 1: now I think people are because they're becoming more educated

1100
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: on the subject than seeing with their own eyes what's happening,

1101
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: and because Israel has not improved their pr strategy, I

1102
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: am feeling more hopeful. I'm feeling more and more like

1103
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 1: they are eating themselves from within it in that society.

1104
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: I've heard from more like left wing Israeli voices than

1105
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: I have in the longest time, and it just seems

1106
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: more and more like the people in the West, who

1107
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: once had a more like like an unconscious bias about

1108
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: preferring the Israelis over the Palestinians, are now having that

1109
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: kind of reversed and are just starting to see Israel

1110
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: for what it is, which is like a racist, apartheid state.

1111
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 1: And I think that that shift in public opinion is

1112
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: important because at the end of the day, one reason

1113
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: I think Israel's been able to get away with so

1114
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: much is because people just don't care, right, And I'm

1115
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: starting to see that change now. The only worry I

1116
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: have with it has been I want to make sure

1117
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: that people don't fall into the traps that a lot

1118
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: of Israeli's or at least Israeli like media guys set,

1119
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: which is like, act so much like an anti Semitic

1120
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 1: stereotype that you believe in anti Semitic stereotypes, and act

1121
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: in a way in which you're saying, oh, all Jews

1122
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 1: believe this because Israelis love to do this, we are

1123
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: representatives of all Jews, and then get people to believe

1124
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: that all Jews support the State of Israel and its

1125
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: actions like that to me is an important facet of

1126
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: like speaking out on this for me because I'm like,

1127
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: I want people to know that Jews are not a

1128
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: monolith and do not like automatically support Israel no matter

1129
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: what they say, no matter what polls they bring out

1130
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 1: when they say like majority vast majority of Jews, they

1131
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: always say like something along lines of like connect strongly

1132
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: with Israel, and it's like, well, yeah, obviously Israel quote unquote,

1133
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: the you know, the thing from the Bible is different

1134
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: than the modern state of Israel. And also, yeah, any

1135
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: Jewish person is going to have a connection through Judaism

1136
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 1: to the idea of Israel, ancient Israel specifically, but also,

1137
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, we've been taught about Israel as being like

1138
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: the place that we earned through our blood, you know,

1139
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: and mass extermination attempts over thousands of years in Europe. Like,

1140
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: you're not going to change that overnight, No one's you know.

1141
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 1: But I do believe that the idea that all Jews

1142
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: automatically support Israel is a complete fabrication that is proliferated

1143
01:05:54,080 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: by has Barists who want us to all seem like

1144
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: we are in solidarity with one another as like blood Jews,

1145
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,439
Speaker 1: which is just this really fascist like mindset. But yeah,

1146
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: I'm feeling more optimistic because people are more and more

1147
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: speaking out about it or realize that like, Israel is

1148
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: not the good guy, and a lot of Jewish people

1149
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: in the West are actively ashamed of the people that

1150
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: they know who blindly support Israel, and the young people

1151
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: have really made me feel like.

1152
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a future here. But yeah, who knows.

1153
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 3: All right, Well, appreciate having you on.

1154
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 2: I want to point out it's a funny podcast. Is

1155
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 2: a funny podcast.

1156
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 3: We just get cover and.

1157
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: I do a bit real quick. We're going to do

1158
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 2: you want to do?

1159
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to uh it's to me and bart at

1160
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: my wife. I say stuff like that. It's pretty cool

1161
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: a sound I have a soundboard usually, so.

1162
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 2: It's pretty ye. Yeah, you'll love the voice modulator too.

1163
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 2: Oh I use the voice modulator. That's how I I

1164
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 2: pretend to be fun.

1165
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so you know, yeah, go check it out.

1166
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 3: And where can people find you? Follow you hear the

1167
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 3: podcast all that good stuff.

1168
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: You can hear the podcast wherever you get your podcast.

1169
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: It's called Bad Hasbar the World's Most moral podcast.

1170
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 2: Uh.

1171
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 1: You can also watch it on YouTube. Uh there's a

1172
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: YouTube channel so you can see our face as while

1173
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: we're doing it. So subscribe to bad Asbara on YouTube.

1174
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, follow me on Instagram at matt leab

1175
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: jokes and uh you know if I can, I'm on

1176
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: Twitter at matt Leib.

1177
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 2: There you go.

1178
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 3: Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying

1179
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 3: a tweet or otherwise?

1180
01:07:53,680 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there is. This is not like the funniest thing. Okay,

1181
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 1: so there's a couple. One is I just got introduced

1182
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: to someone named La Beast. I know this is an

1183
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: old YouTuber and uh, apparently he was like back in

1184
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: the day, like he was just like a prank guy.

1185
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 1: So I just started going through all of like his videos,

1186
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 1: and he has a video in which he is mad

1187
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: at his dad. So he goes into his dad's old

1188
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: smobile and drinks epicac and soda and he just.

1189
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 2: Oh my, oh god, oh my god.

1190
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: He vod it's all over it and I can't I

1191
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: can't explain how funny it is.

1192
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 2: You just have to watch La piece. It just made me.

1193
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 1: It made me, I don't know, like nostalgic for the

1194
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: days of YouTube when it was just like like idiots

1195
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: eating cactuses and shit, you know what I mean, back

1196
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: when YouTube was fun and it was just like like halfway.

1197
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 2: Dying in slow motion as a vlog. Yeah, and you're

1198
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 2: like that guy just drink a fifth of stole, all right, Yeah,

1199
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 2: You're like, oh man, that's crazy. Yeah, so that was cool.

1200
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: And then the other pieces, Uh, this is just a

1201
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 1: thing I think everyone should watch is ret and Link

1202
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 1: who I do a show called Good Mythical Morning. Yeah,

1203
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 1: and they have a separate channel called retin Link on

1204
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 1: on YouTube and they just started a series called wonder

1205
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: Hole and I'm not in it. I'm literally just plugging

1206
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: it because it's really good. It's called wonder Hole. If

1207
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 1: you go to the subscribe to the ret and Link

1208
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: channel or just go there and you'll see the first

1209
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: episode just came out a couple of days ago. It's

1210
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: really good. It's it's it's not like their usual you know,

1211
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: like studio stuff, so uh so yeah, check check that out.

1212
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: And it's like there. I'm literally only plugging it because

1213
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 1: I like it, and not because not because I know

1214
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: it's no, I don't get a cut or I'm not

1215
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 1: even in it. They didn't even ask me to be

1216
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: in it, and so like half of it, I'm plugging

1217
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: it because you're mad the I'm kind of mad at

1218
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: them because I'm like.

1219
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 2: You tuned in being like, let's see what this bullshit? Yeah,

1220
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 2: I was just like all right, and then I was like, wait,

1221
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 2: this is really good. What the fuck?

1222
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, anyways, uh check out checkout Wonderhole. It's very good.

1223
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 2: Awesome miles. Where can people find you?

1224
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 3: And is there a work of media you've been enjoying.

1225
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 3: Uh yeah.

1226
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 2: Find me on the Twitter, the Indus Instagram at Miles

1227
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 2: of Gray, find Jack and on the basketball podcast Miles

1228
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 2: and Jack cop Man Boosties. Find me on four to

1229
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 2: twenty Day Fiance Talking ninety day Fiance. Tweet I like

1230
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 2: is from Derek Pressman at Derek Crestman said the electoral

1231
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 2: College is DEI for rural white folks like no, no,

1232
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 2: no no, that's our word.

1233
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 3: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian

1234
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 3: a tweet I've been enjoying. Mike Bovias bo Vice tweeted

1235
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 3: a picture of JD. Van's photoshopped into the Hot Wings

1236
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 3: set and it says, and these are chicken wings? How

1237
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 3: long have you hosted hot ones? These are hot sauces.

1238
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 3: What's a good number of wings to eat? I'll do

1239
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 3: whatever makes sense when it comes to the hot sauce.

1240
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

1241
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 3: It just really nailed shut guy.

1242
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 2: JD. Dance Yep.

1243
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 3: You can find us on Twitter at daily Zeikeist, where

1244
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 3: the daily Zeikeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fanpage

1245
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 3: and a website, daily zeikeist dot com, where we post

1246
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 3: our episodes and our footnotes We're like, oh, the information

1247
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:33,720
Speaker 3: that we talked about today's episode, as well as a

1248
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 3: song that we think you might enjoy, Miles, is there

1249
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 3: a song that you think people might end?

1250
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a track. Oh wow, I was playing that

1251
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,719
Speaker 2: Ryan Adams cover of Wonderwall and then I completely lost

1252
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 2: it messed it up there it is. It's a track

1253
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 2: called Summer Rain by the group Zimmer ninety. I've not

1254
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 2: heard of this band, but this song has like a

1255
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:57,600
Speaker 2: lot of plays. It came up in a playlist I

1256
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 2: was listening to, uh, and it's just got like again,

1257
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 2: it's it's calm, it feels like summer rain. It's not

1258
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 2: gonna it's not like some blow your speakers out type

1259
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 2: agro kind of beat anything. It's like a nice little

1260
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 2: kind of like rock to them, you know what I mean,

1261
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 2: Indie rock pipes. So this is Summer Rain by Zimmer ninety.

1262
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 3: All right, we will link off to that in the

1263
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 3: foot notes to Day These Eye Guys is a production

1264
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 3: of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, visit

1265
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,600
Speaker 3: the iHeart Radio ap Apple Podcaster, wherever you get your

1266
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,719
Speaker 3: favorite shows. That is going to do it for us

1267
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 3: this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what is trending,

1268
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 3: and we will talk to you all then.

1269
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye bye