Speaker 1: My hopes and dreams are to finish my prison terms
Speaker 1: sooner than my sentence is judged by the federal government.
Speaker 1: I hope I can get out and do positive things
Speaker 1: as a human being. I want to reunite with my
Speaker 1: brothers and sister and have a close relationship with all
Speaker 1: of them. I want to rebuild the trust that they
Speaker 1: once had for me. I want a house in Texas
Speaker 1: or Florida where I can have a small property. I
Speaker 1: also want to travel and see Europe, Australia, the Philippines, Alaska,
Speaker 1: and buy a boat and explore the South Pacific for
Speaker 1: wreckage to recover and sell to antique dealers. I also
Speaker 1: want to begin another career as a photographer for models
Speaker 1: and wedding parties. I would like to work in healthcare
Speaker 1: or a home business where I can work hard, make money,
Speaker 1: and succeed in life. Welcome to The Dockerty Gang, a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios Episode eleven,
Speaker 1: Third World Country on Mars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime
Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie lie Decker. We've been
Speaker 1: working with producer Beth Greenwald on The Dougherty Gang for
Speaker 1: months now. These three siblings have agreed to tell their
Speaker 1: story for the very first time, each from separate prisons.
Speaker 1: Lee Grace Docherty is at the Federal Correction Institute Aliceville
Speaker 1: in Alabama. Ryan Docherty is in the U S Penitentiary
Speaker 1: Tucson in Arizona, and Dylan Docherty is currently at the
Speaker 1: United States Prison of Atlanta in Georgia. The podcast You
Speaker 1: are about to Hear contains explicit language and mature content
Speaker 1: that some listeners may find offensive. Let's call to think
Speaker 1: that I am a good person. Yeah, maybe I've done
Speaker 1: from my family. Isn't one of them. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: I would like to change though the way that I
Speaker 1: was there. But I'll never say I'm sorry for I'm kind.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not sorry for being a My family
Speaker 1: marks the tenure anniversary of the Dougherty family Crimes Free.
Speaker 1: Despite the fact that they're only able to communicate via email,
Speaker 1: their devotion remains intact. This is producer Beth Greenwald on
Speaker 1: with Ryan in one of their final interviews. It's not
Speaker 1: like Good Fellows. We didn't just get like some fresh
Speaker 1: pudo and fucking some loaves of bread and a couple
Speaker 1: of bottles of wine. It's not like that. This ship
Speaker 1: is very fucking uh there and they're kind of off
Speaker 1: stir or whatever the fucking word is. And you got
Speaker 1: like a few clothes. You might have like a pair
Speaker 1: of shoes, you might have some of your personal photos
Speaker 1: in a little bit of food, Like you don't really
Speaker 1: have anything. I really is in like a concrete block
Speaker 1: room with like a metal locker than painted gun metal gray.
Speaker 1: Everything is white on gray everywhere except for some blue
Speaker 1: accent for like where the phones are at and where
Speaker 1: the doors are at. Right, besides that, the same aryact color.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's seen know, there's no windows. Cloths
Speaker 1: are easily acceptable like that. It's super eutilitarian, Like they're
Speaker 1: tu bunks in the room that's like I don't know,
Speaker 1: seven feet by nine feet, right, there's a toilet in
Speaker 1: the stink and and there you go. You've got like
Speaker 1: a couple of uniforms that they give you, and give
Speaker 1: you a pair of boots that are sucking made out
Speaker 1: of like cardboard and like dead animals. Like it's very minimal.
Speaker 1: That's all on how you look at it. When's the
Speaker 1: last time I had to cook the dinner? I don't
Speaker 1: have to cook the dinner. Somebody else cooks dinner for me.
Speaker 1: What's the last time I washed my you know, my clothes.
Speaker 1: I don't have to. I can put him in the
Speaker 1: bag and somebody else wash us. So we have to
Speaker 1: clean the bathroom in the shower, somebody does that. I
Speaker 1: don't have to sweepelf before or somebody else does that.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I want to a close
Speaker 1: side and you know, play horseshoes or you know, basketball
Speaker 1: or botchy ball or half a dozen other things. I
Speaker 1: know means that I like being in prison. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying as far as you kind of shift your reality.
Speaker 1: And one time I came and I said something to
Speaker 1: my attorney and she's like, oh, why are you so happy?
Speaker 1: You know? And I, hell, yeah, I had thirty two
Speaker 1: years in Colorado. This is my federal attorney. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a you know, a crazy sent spare
Speaker 1: with the beds, and I was like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I focused on what I do have,
Speaker 1: not on you know, and she's like, well, what else
Speaker 1: you don't have? And I was like, well, if I
Speaker 1: focused all the things I didn't have, I'm ansoes go
Speaker 1: back to the unit. And you know, tied sheet around
Speaker 1: the rail and jump over. Here's Lee Grace giving her
Speaker 1: take on life in prison. The first year is really
Speaker 1: hard because you're a gap thing. But once you adapt
Speaker 1: and you can see things and your vision becomes clear
Speaker 1: about how people really are and how the officers really aren't,
Speaker 1: how the unit team really are, and the people that
Speaker 1: work in the prison system, everything gets so much worse
Speaker 1: because you see the reality, you see the honesty. So
Speaker 1: I've been here about eight, eight or nine years. She's
Speaker 1: I need to count, but I think eight years. And
Speaker 1: where were you before that? I was in Hazelton, a
Speaker 1: small within prison in West Virginia. It's a federal facility. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean they're both federal facilities, but I've been in
Speaker 1: I was in county before that, so that causes a
Speaker 1: lot of confusion. State and said are completely different type
Speaker 1: of prison. Ryan is having a harder go of it
Speaker 1: in prison. But I ended up doing timing about six
Speaker 1: different county jails in Georgia. Why are they when they
Speaker 1: heard that? Like, I was having a hard out time
Speaker 1: in making because making took me from in bib County jail.
Speaker 1: There's a murder every time they run wrecked there like
Speaker 1: somebody dies, somebody gets stabbed at death. Like it's more
Speaker 1: violent than any of the prisons I've ever been to.
Speaker 1: It's like rats all over the floor and cockroaches, and
Speaker 1: you'd be lucky if you get a mattress, Like there's
Speaker 1: no food. It took me from two hundred thirty seven
Speaker 1: pounds to a hundred and fifty eight pounds and a
Speaker 1: little less than six months, so you do the math.
Speaker 1: Marshall came and picked me up and didn't recognize me.
Speaker 1: He's like, what the funk happened? And I told him
Speaker 1: it was like, bro, listen, when I get in the
Speaker 1: van with you right now, y'all are gonna have to
Speaker 1: beat the funk out of me and taste for me
Speaker 1: in order to get me to go back into that
Speaker 1: county jail. Ryan is in protective custody at his prison
Speaker 1: due to being charged with sending a minor harmful information
Speaker 1: and loud moss of his conduct. It was the original
Speaker 1: case that tipped off the entire crime spree. The yard
Speaker 1: where I'm out currently is like splits, like seventy job
Speaker 1: molesters and other either gang dropout, rat, hit the wrong person,
Speaker 1: bad luck, drug that you know, take pick or choose.
Speaker 1: But anyways, right you cut it, you're not good you know,
Speaker 1: and you're not in good standing, so you end up here.
Speaker 1: And this is like the bottom of the barrel. So
Speaker 1: like I look at these people would disdain because the
Speaker 1: ones that like, let's call the ones that like raped
Speaker 1: their two year old daughter. You know, I think they
Speaker 1: should burn in hell. But you know, it's not my
Speaker 1: place to judge or punish them, like that's that's not
Speaker 1: my deal. And then for me at like a regular yard,
Speaker 1: somebody would look at me for fucking a fifteen year
Speaker 1: old stick when I was eighteen, and it's the same
Speaker 1: as they would look at one of these people that
Speaker 1: suck the ju world, you know, when they were forty.
Speaker 1: It doesn't there's no differentiation in their eyes. I mean
Speaker 1: in the beginning, you're a good looking guys. You get
Speaker 1: into jail, it's twenty something years old. Are you protecting
Speaker 1: at all in anyway? But no, No, it's predatory as ship.
Speaker 1: Let's protect your own asshole with a knife forget raped.
Speaker 1: I mean it's one of the two. Lee Grace has
Speaker 1: their own opinion of the women's prison. These are women
Speaker 1: that have fat on their asses and couches all day,
Speaker 1: you know, selling drugs out of their out of their basement.
Speaker 1: These aren't athletic, strong, strapping women from Alaska. These are fat,
Speaker 1: overweight people from the South, so they're not good fighters.
Speaker 1: Men can kill somebody and women can't. Well, it would
Speaker 1: take a lot for somebody a woman. There's not very
Speaker 1: much violence. Women are all bullshit and talk and physically
Speaker 1: they're weak, so they can't. It's hard for them to
Speaker 1: kill somebody. This call is from a federal prison. Men
Speaker 1: can just snap your neck or you know, stabby in
Speaker 1: the artery and just you know, rip your heart out.
Speaker 1: So women don't really fight with weapons and men do.
Speaker 1: So once you get a shank in your hand, it's
Speaker 1: really easy to flip somebody's throat. Meanwhile, Ryan is living
Speaker 1: in fear, like there's been a few stabbings recently, and
Speaker 1: there's been a few people hitting the head with locks,
Speaker 1: and there's been a few people kicked in the head
Speaker 1: with boots, and like, the majority of that violence is
Speaker 1: either because of gay stuff or people owing money, or
Speaker 1: just people not wanting to be here. That's steered the
Speaker 1: conversation with Ryan to work. But what about the people
Speaker 1: then you know the other prisoners that work, do they
Speaker 1: make a wage that volunteer based? How does that work?
Speaker 1: It's volunteer based. It's work if you want to. They're
Speaker 1: trying to pay the dudes like eighteen dollars months to
Speaker 1: clean ten showers twice a day, five days a week, right,
Speaker 1: and it's like you gotta get in there and you
Speaker 1: gotta scrub, and like people are nasty. There's like jizz
Speaker 1: or fucking used razors or like a pubic care ball
Speaker 1: the size of a raccoon in the corner. It's just agreed.
Speaker 1: Just man, here's Dylan talking about his day to day life.
Speaker 1: I just changed jobs. You know. I used to work
Speaker 1: on the rack yard. Was king water keg build up
Speaker 1: the water kigs, and I know that's something like wow, well,
Speaker 1: I mean what is that? You know, when you have
Speaker 1: five people in the yard and there's you know, ten
Speaker 1: ten gallon kigs push at least three Olympic swimming pools
Speaker 1: of water up that girl in the six years that
Speaker 1: I've been out there, so I recently went to facilities.
Speaker 1: Thank you all the plumbing, electrical. If you realize that
Speaker 1: the prison is, you know, the maintenantonent is kept up
Speaker 1: by the you know, the inmate population. We didn't work,
Speaker 1: they couldn't keep us locked up. But but I went
Speaker 1: to facilities that Bunny might got me a job down there.
Speaker 1: It's weirdy one way that, you know, maintaining the cage
Speaker 1: that keeps me, but it also gives me a chance
Speaker 1: to do stuff that I used to do on the
Speaker 1: street and feel productive. Here's beout speaking with Ryan about
Speaker 1: how different events in his life have shaped to my
Speaker 1: the person. Let me ask you something. When you look
Speaker 1: at this big picture, is there a moment that if
Speaker 1: things like just a little differently, this wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: the story? Oh man, you know what. Yeah, there's pivot
Speaker 1: points in everyone's life. There's big watershed moments, right and
Speaker 1: I guess the first one is the youngest one. When
Speaker 1: I was a kid and my father died, you know,
Speaker 1: seven years old, fam right then and there, that's a
Speaker 1: big momentum the car accident where I broke my neck
Speaker 1: and I smashed my head and I have a dramatic
Speaker 1: brain injury from that. Um. That's another one that's kind
Speaker 1: of where I fell in love with opiates, from sucking
Speaker 1: breaking my back and having to take oxycotton and morphine
Speaker 1: and ship because my back hurt. And then uh, let's
Speaker 1: see what else here, Oh, when my sister died. That
Speaker 1: was a vicious one because man, if you want to
Speaker 1: talk about a completely different person, that's where it felt
Speaker 1: like I developed two separate personalities that go on in
Speaker 1: my head at any given time. While Ryan remembers his pain,
Speaker 1: Dylan tries to remain positive. You know a lot of
Speaker 1: people big they you know, they have a lot of
Speaker 1: regrets and and and the whole you know, everything is
Speaker 1: it's a negative. And it does not for you know,
Speaker 1: it's just not me. And so I don't really dwell
Speaker 1: on the situation a lot. And when I really sit
Speaker 1: down and think about it, sometimes it does kind of
Speaker 1: pluck out my heart stream. Annie Armstrung me out as
Speaker 1: a psychotherapist who has followed the Dougherty story closely. More
Speaker 1: adverse experience as a kid has loss of a parent,
Speaker 1: substance abuse in the home, separation, you know of siblings,
Speaker 1: those things all would be considered adverse experiences. So the
Speaker 1: higher doses of adversity, they do affect the pleasure and
Speaker 1: reward center of the brain. And what happens is the
Speaker 1: person needs a higher dose of whatever that pleasure stimulant
Speaker 1: is in order to feel pleasure, and so people who
Speaker 1: have higher amounts of adverse childhood experiences are way more
Speaker 1: likely to be involved in risky behavior. In one of
Speaker 1: her last interviews with Lee, Grace's attorney Patrick McCarville, that
Speaker 1: spoke with him about Marfan syndrome, the genetic cart disorder
Speaker 1: that runs in the Dougherty family, and how that may
Speaker 1: have affected her family's choices in life. You know, they
Speaker 1: lost dead, they lost sister both to Marfan syndrome. You know,
Speaker 1: at least in your conversation with Lee, did she feel
Speaker 1: like she didn't ever longed to live or she you know,
Speaker 1: was that a huge factor in her actions? Absolutely? I
Speaker 1: think the night that they hatched this plan, I believe
Speaker 1: they discussed that they didn't believe that they would live
Speaker 1: as long as most people because of that hereditary disease,
Speaker 1: and that was a factor in what caused them to
Speaker 1: do these crimes. They were going to get out of
Speaker 1: Dodge and go live happily ever after together as a
Speaker 1: family with what all time they thought they had left.
Speaker 1: Sean McEwan is a filmmaker who wrote and directed a
Speaker 1: feature film about the Doughertyes. He's also a friend to
Speaker 1: the trio. I think what strikes me at this point,
Speaker 1: kind of revisiting the story and kind of seeing it
Speaker 1: through a lens of the perspective of a decade later,
Speaker 1: is that I vacillate between two truths. One is the
Speaker 1: tragedy that they didn't accomplish their objective. While I'm very
Speaker 1: glad no one got injured and could have. But the
Speaker 1: tragedy that, apparently and everything that they say is all
Speaker 1: about the fact that they just wanted to be together
Speaker 1: and be safe and get the heck out of Dodge
Speaker 1: and try to forge this new life and that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: And then yet and maybe I'm just trying to be
Speaker 1: the total optimist here in some sense, but they they
Speaker 1: still have this bond. That bond is stronger than ever.
Speaker 1: You can hear it, and the way they retell the
Speaker 1: stories you can hear it, and how strong the feelings
Speaker 1: are toward each other. So in spite of it all,
Speaker 1: nothing could separate them. They are still figuratively still together.
Speaker 1: Their ten years into their sentences, but they've done thirty years.
Speaker 1: That's how they think of the others. There that intertwined
Speaker 1: that when you add it up, that's thirty years of
Speaker 1: them all being apart, not spending time together, you know.
Speaker 1: And by the some of this, it's years of that,
Speaker 1: you know, when you compound it like that, And I
Speaker 1: think that's what's so interesting. Also, they're not going to
Speaker 1: have that opportunity to really beating each other's lives, and
Speaker 1: that's all they really ever wanted. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: Although the docerty has pled their cases, the Florida courts
Speaker 1: have not settled with Dylan and Lee. Grace. Ryan is
Speaker 1: the only one of the siblings who are a you
Speaker 1: play out in Florida. Here's Beth speaking with Dylan. This
Speaker 1: call was from the federal prison. This call, it's from
Speaker 1: Dylan family. You may begin speaking now, Hey, how are
Speaker 1: you doing. I'm in a really bad mood now, not
Speaker 1: just kind of a legal letter from my new attorney
Speaker 1: that I have in Florida, and um, I don't know
Speaker 1: what is going on down there, but yeah, what what
Speaker 1: does the letter say? Well, I've had to learn that
Speaker 1: apparently much time so I could start until I get
Speaker 1: this case resolved. And so like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: was on any impression that they would it would you know,
Speaker 1: I would start from the moment that I was InCAR
Speaker 1: story would just come up on ten years now. So
Speaker 1: he's saying that I'm not I get creative for the
Speaker 1: time that I've served already, which is just unacceptable because
Speaker 1: it you know, forty years since. So only they they're
Speaker 1: offered me with a twenty five year minimal menatory with
Speaker 1: another fifteen years recurrent want to I want to play
Speaker 1: charged second secondary to the attempted murder police officers. So
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I just just uh, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: was crazy. Dylan has been serving his sentences concurrently, and
Speaker 1: this letter revealed that he may face even more time
Speaker 1: in Florida. But the real question is why did it
Speaker 1: take so long? Ten years later they're deciding to do this, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean ten years, they haven't done anything. They just
Speaker 1: sort of they have. They never came to get me,
Speaker 1: They never you know what I mean. They just whenever
Speaker 1: I go to a new institution, they relodge a detainer
Speaker 1: against me. And it's just like, I don't know, they
Speaker 1: were just waiting for waiting for me to get out
Speaker 1: and then have the State troopers come quickly up after
Speaker 1: serve you know, thirty years in the FEDS or you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's really weird. I just emailed my
Speaker 1: brother and so I got that and asked him if
Speaker 1: they have started his time in two thousand and eleven
Speaker 1: or if that is indeed what they did, because he
Speaker 1: didn't he didn't get the case result until two thousand
Speaker 1: and fourteen. But it's definitely, you know, it's not good news.
Speaker 1: How long do you have this lawyer I'm working on this,
Speaker 1: he just started. I just kind of you know, because
Speaker 1: I was I was wanting to get this all resolved
Speaker 1: before all these other things, you know, work out, and
Speaker 1: I just want to kind of wanted it behind me
Speaker 1: and you know, a bow tied on it, and then
Speaker 1: I could have you know, a day and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and and start working towards that, you know, the definitive day.
Speaker 1: You know. It's definitely disheartening because if that's true, that's true,
Speaker 1: I I'm I have to take it a trial. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna you know what I mean, she just if
Speaker 1: nothing shakes out with my stay cake and then you're
Speaker 1: talking to ten ten years, it's dead time. It's kind
Speaker 1: of just so it's you know, that just that puts
Speaker 1: me at you know, six eight seventy years old. Do
Speaker 1: we know we we don't know if Lee Grace that
Speaker 1: a letter as well? Right, talk to her, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, letter show explain to you what her
Speaker 1: attorneys told her. She said that her attorney back, she
Speaker 1: had so hard. You're up there and you know, sucking
Speaker 1: a lask her, you know, moth Ambique and we really
Speaker 1: you know, we don't have a mule train to come
Speaker 1: get you. Just you know, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: understand why it's so hard. You know, I mean I've
Speaker 1: been in the same institution for uh seven years or
Speaker 1: six years, uh probably you know, uh not even three
Speaker 1: miles from the support state line, you know what I mean. Uh,
Speaker 1: if this was a big deal to them, and my
Speaker 1: my whole mindset on it was let it sit and
Speaker 1: that the that the you know, it was a rolling boil,
Speaker 1: the oil it boiled over on the stove and it
Speaker 1: was you know, I was just like, well, let's just
Speaker 1: let it kind of simmered down, and you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, I can go down there and and can
Speaker 1: get taken care of, you know, seven or eight, nine,
Speaker 1: ten years and you know, maybe to be halfway forgotten
Speaker 1: and people won't you know, you know, I felt like
Speaker 1: time was you know, time heals all wounds or whatever.
Speaker 1: Dylan's new attorney, the man who sent him the letter
Speaker 1: was recommended by a fellow inmate. The first thing he
Speaker 1: opens up with is is, you know, I built a
Speaker 1: half hower for this, and I build a half power
Speaker 1: for that. And I was over here for fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: and I was over there for forty five minutes. So
Speaker 1: I mean he's opened up with his his breakdown on
Speaker 1: the building and you know, and says that, you know,
Speaker 1: my so and so is gonna, you know, is takeing
Speaker 1: care of the charges. And you know it's funny Kobe Becker,
Speaker 1: who I have all the admiration in respect for, and
Speaker 1: I can't thank her enough. You know, she was more
Speaker 1: than willing to do it. She said, it's only on
Speaker 1: her fifty hours from her to get her federal stamp
Speaker 1: for the Middle District of Georgia or whatever the hell
Speaker 1: it was. And you know, I looking at her as
Speaker 1: the first time mom, I was, I was working that
Speaker 1: selfish and I said, no, I'm sure they'll give me
Speaker 1: a great attorney, and they gave me a sorry, worthless attorney.
Speaker 1: And I wish I had been selfish and told her, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want you to be all want to represent me
Speaker 1: the whole way. It's probably not too late to do that. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you speak to her, I need all
Speaker 1: the help I can get, apparently, because this is just
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy's he's not really a I mean
Speaker 1: need a criminal attorney. It says that on his letter
Speaker 1: head here, but it's first says a personal injury and
Speaker 1: then criminal defense and then certified me came. Have you
Speaker 1: reached out to Kobe at to say, no, you just
Speaker 1: just got the information from you last and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go up here and get it on the computer tonight,
Speaker 1: and trying to shoot her, Uh it's an email or
Speaker 1: I'm really gonna give on my counselor trying to give
Speaker 1: it A couple of attorney calls this week to where
Speaker 1: I can get the bottom is that's reached out to
Speaker 1: Kobe Becker, Dylan's lawyer from Colorado, to see if she
Speaker 1: could offer Dylan any advice. Is it normal for what's
Speaker 1: happening with Florida rearing its headed this way? I don't
Speaker 1: know that I would associate anything with Florida and the
Speaker 1: criminal justice system is being quote unquote normal. Um. But
Speaker 1: what I can say is that what happens at the
Speaker 1: state level is if there is a federal case, we
Speaker 1: basically say, so these charges have always been in existence
Speaker 1: is by understanding in Florida, and so they didn't They
Speaker 1: had already charged him as what my understanding is, but
Speaker 1: they never brought him there because you know, we kind
Speaker 1: of I don't use the term joke, but we always
Speaker 1: sort of off handedly comment like once our clients go
Speaker 1: in the federal system, they're sort of lost and we
Speaker 1: don't we can never get them back. And so I
Speaker 1: don't know why Florida is coming up now other than
Speaker 1: he could be. I think he's nearing the halfway point
Speaker 1: of his sentence, even with good time and earn time.
Speaker 1: I actually have contacted some of my friends in the
Speaker 1: Florida area to try to find him a criminal defense
Speaker 1: attorney in his county, and I'm thankful to know so
Speaker 1: many people, so I'm hoping to get him somebody that
Speaker 1: can do something better than what the offer is there now,
Speaker 1: because that's just ridiculous and they're actually asking for it.
Speaker 1: To be served consecutive. I think my understanding is to
Speaker 1: the federal system, and that's just completely assent. Is there
Speaker 1: any opportunity, I mean, with good behavior and everything else
Speaker 1: in a Florida isn't what's the earliest he could get out,
Speaker 1: even with good time and earned time, He'd have to
Speaker 1: serve of his sentence before his paro eligible. And I
Speaker 1: think that's right in the federal system. In the state
Speaker 1: of Colorado at seventy five percent. But because our prisons
Speaker 1: are so overcrowded here in Colorado, the state legislature enacted
Speaker 1: a new law I believe that went into effect last
Speaker 1: year twenty and that law basically says that the Department
Speaker 1: of Corrections can determine despite the statue providing for sev
Speaker 1: the Department of Corrections is actually the ones that can
Speaker 1: determine when their parole eligible through time, comp etcetera. So
Speaker 1: a lot of our seventy five percent statutory sentences are
Speaker 1: going down to sixty or fifty percent. Here again, is
Speaker 1: still maker Shawn McEwen speaking with Beth. You met them
Speaker 1: eight years ago. You see a difference in them now.
Speaker 1: I mean when you start talking, they were two years
Speaker 1: into this prison sentence. Is there a big difference in them?
Speaker 1: Is it's the same. Do they seem hopeful? Do they
Speaker 1: seem more hopeless? Yeah? I see a big difference. You know,
Speaker 1: as far as the difference in how they are now
Speaker 1: compared to how they were years ago, I think there
Speaker 1: was you know, I felt like I was talking to
Speaker 1: kids still. Again, this is from my perspective, whereas now
Speaker 1: I feel like they have matured, they have aged, and
Speaker 1: with that has come wisdom and perspective, and they're cleaner
Speaker 1: figuratively and literally. So with that, I think they have
Speaker 1: clarity of mind and there is remorse for what they
Speaker 1: did in the decisions that they don't think they had
Speaker 1: a clear understanding of what this time stretcher really meant.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think when you talk to somebody who's young,
Speaker 1: who's in their late late teens, early twenties, and you
Speaker 1: talk about like, oh, the next ten years, the next
Speaker 1: twenty years, that does sound like a lifetime to them,
Speaker 1: but they don't really get it. This again, is Lee
Speaker 1: Grace on her life behind bars? Well, prison is is
Speaker 1: like this. It is basically a warehouse. You know, you
Speaker 1: have your room, you have your door, you have your locker,
Speaker 1: it's just a big storage facility where you just sit
Speaker 1: in the same unit pretty much all day long, all
Speaker 1: night long, and you just do your time day for day.
Speaker 1: And they do have a prescription till line. You know
Speaker 1: that you go and get your pill line medications. But
Speaker 1: are any of these medications very good? No, they are
Speaker 1: the we call them psychments. Basically, they are a lot
Speaker 1: of medications that you cannot overdoes on medications you really
Speaker 1: can't abuse. It's a lot of Prozac, a lot of Zoloff,
Speaker 1: a lot of sarah quill or transdone or Laville, drugs
Speaker 1: that make you sleep, drugs that make you gain weight.
Speaker 1: Here's Ryan on how prison has changed him. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just changed me funnally, fundamentally as a person. You know,
Speaker 1: at my core, I'm still a really sweet, amenable guy, right,
Speaker 1: but a lot of that and I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's just from youth or whatever, but just got scrubbed
Speaker 1: out of me. It's like I don't got that anymore.
Speaker 1: My patience level is some ship and then I don't know,
Speaker 1: you just learned that, like violence is really one of
Speaker 1: the few ways to really communicate your point in here,
Speaker 1: and like it's just have been a really nice thing that, like,
Speaker 1: I haven't had to do anything in a few years,
Speaker 1: so that's been nice. But it's it's still is prison.
Speaker 1: This is Dylan on some things he's learned in prison.
Speaker 1: It's like a third World country if there was the
Speaker 1: Third World country on Mars. It's a weird little micro
Speaker 1: constantly living. There's this whole social structure. I've learned a
Speaker 1: lot since I've been here. I've learned a lot about
Speaker 1: the people. He amplifies that you were before you came
Speaker 1: to prison. When you come to prison, I think it
Speaker 1: brings out whatever character qualities you had, It brings those
Speaker 1: out poll more. You know, when Beth last spoke with Dylan,
Speaker 1: he was in the Shoe, which is the special housing
Speaker 1: unit within the prison. There was one story that you
Speaker 1: were in the shoe for some sort of altercation with
Speaker 1: your cell mate, and then there was another one that
Speaker 1: you weren't feeling well. No, no, no, neither neither to evolve.
Speaker 1: I'm good, I am getting a transfer, I am in
Speaker 1: the shoe, but no, I'm fine. Things good. I can
Speaker 1: only imagine when Lee Race told you sometimes she's a
Speaker 1: sucking Indian. I found out pretty quick quick where you
Speaker 1: went I just didn't understand why, and then wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure you're okay because there was like a health question. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought I fell getting out of rack. I have
Speaker 1: just scarred by my eye right now, cossion. I went
Speaker 1: to the hospital, Alpi Medical, to the street. But did
Speaker 1: they spells are gone. I'm good. I don't have me
Speaker 1: bringing in my ear anymore. So I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: was just you know, lateen, laten and concussion issues and
Speaker 1: they're go gone. Towards the end of their final interview,
Speaker 1: Beth asked Dylan about his feelings of loyalty towards his family.
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with putting your loved ones before other people.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people are gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that's gonna like scratch their ear, and that's
Speaker 1: the politically incorrect thing to say. But if I mean,
Speaker 1: a woman should care about hurt children more than some
Speaker 1: random person, and individual person should care about their family
Speaker 1: more than just some random person. And that's that's my person.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm all right. Uh, is there anything to
Speaker 1: do for you? Yeah, I've come open to do are
Speaker 1: so I can have some fresh air. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's a part of prison, you know, and there's the
Speaker 1: show is a real fucked up spot. You know, you
Speaker 1: just it's it's a prison within a prison, and you
Speaker 1: really have you have absolutely nothing. Ryan is just as
Speaker 1: devoted to family, and it becomes even more apparent when
Speaker 1: he speaks about his now ten year old son. I've
Speaker 1: just drilled it into into him unmercifully, along with the
Speaker 1: fact that I love and I'm proud of him everything
Speaker 1: that he does, but that you know, you want to
Speaker 1: get a good education because there is a big difference
Speaker 1: between doing what you want to do and doing what
Speaker 1: you have to do. And people that don't have a
Speaker 1: good education have limited options. It's not that you can't
Speaker 1: succeed without an education, because you can't, it's just becomes
Speaker 1: It's just it keeps options open. It's always nice in
Speaker 1: life when you have options. It seems like you're full
Speaker 1: on parenting from where you are trying to give him
Speaker 1: what I was missing, and I'm trying to give him
Speaker 1: everything I knew when I was twenty by the time
Speaker 1: he's done. That's your job as a parent to try
Speaker 1: and protect and look out for your kids, and like
Speaker 1: I fail miserably at it because I'm not there. The
Speaker 1: most important thing about being a parent is being rather
Speaker 1: than being there, and I'm not physically there. Here's executive
Speaker 1: producer Joseph Morgan. When you see images of a child,
Speaker 1: as that child grows, you're not a part of that timeline.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna soothe them when they're crying at night.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna feed them. You're not gonna be there
Speaker 1: to put the bike together that you want to convince
Speaker 1: them at Santa Claus bro You're not gonna be there
Speaker 1: for all that. You're not gonna be there to see
Speaker 1: your your mama age out. And that's tragic. That's truly
Speaker 1: the tragedy. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll
Speaker 1: be back at a moment. The Dougherty siblings are not
Speaker 1: permitted to make outgoing calls to one another. They can
Speaker 1: only communicate through letters, emails and through this podcast. Here
Speaker 1: stockerty mother, Barbara Belle. I've had ten years and have
Speaker 1: never had my say. Not once in ten years has
Speaker 1: anyone asked me what happened my opinion. So I have
Speaker 1: had ten years to think about what I want to
Speaker 1: say about my children, and I want to say three things.
Speaker 1: Number One, they never tried to harm anyone. They just
Speaker 1: wanted to get away. They were all sharpshooters, So if
Speaker 1: they had really tried to kill anyone, that person would
Speaker 1: be dead. They did not kill anyone. Number Two, League Race,
Speaker 1: Dylan and Ryan are not damaged goods. They are good, caring,
Speaker 1: decent people who got all worked up in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night with the threat of Ryan going to prison.
Speaker 1: They felt they couldn't spare another family member lost to
Speaker 1: death or prison. So with the threat of family annihilation
Speaker 1: moving over them, they egged each other on and once
Speaker 1: they got started, its snowballs and they felt they couldn't
Speaker 1: turn back. And number three, they are different people now.
Speaker 1: They regret what they did and they need to be
Speaker 1: out here making a valuable contribution to society instead of
Speaker 1: costing the taxpayers a hundred dollars a day each to
Speaker 1: keep them in federal housing. And I guess that's about
Speaker 1: all I have to say. Dylan and Lee Grace have
Speaker 1: open cases in the Florida courts and they may face
Speaker 1: more time. Lee Grace is currently thirty nine ineligible for parole.
Speaker 1: In Ryan wanted me tell you that he loves you, Okay,
Speaker 1: tell him I love him. She loved you, yes you
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And I told you to
Speaker 1: tell her the same thing. Dylan is currently thirty six
Speaker 1: and eligible for parole. In I might be talking to
Speaker 1: like Grace later, do you already tell or anything? I
Speaker 1: just tell her, I said, I love her and what
Speaker 1: she already knows. But just tell her, I said, what's up?
Speaker 1: And I hope she's doing good. And Ryan is thirty
Speaker 1: one and eligible for parole. Let's just be real, right
Speaker 1: between you and me. I ruined their lives and they
Speaker 1: would have been much better off without me and them,
Speaker 1: right had I not been born, or had I not
Speaker 1: involved them, or had I not caused that situation. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just some things just are what they are, no
Speaker 1: matter how dressed, how dressed up you make it. You know,
Speaker 1: I ruined my brother and sister's life and they don't
Speaker 1: deserve to be there and not gladly take like a
Speaker 1: death penalty for them to go home. Right now, I
Speaker 1: love them dearly. These were kids who, in a way
Speaker 1: we're part of a system, and their perception was the
Speaker 1: system failed them, And we can look at it now
Speaker 1: and maybe realize that there is truth in that. You
Speaker 1: look back and you sit in judgment of the people
Speaker 1: that were in charge, not so much law enforcement, but corrections,
Speaker 1: I think probation those individuals. You have one sparkly moment
Speaker 1: in tom where you can exercise something that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: It's called mercy. For me, the one thing that I
Speaker 1: would want people to take away from the story is
Speaker 1: and some of it was responsible for this with their choices,
Speaker 1: and some of it was truly circumstance. More on that
Speaker 1: next time. If you're over eighteen years old and want
Speaker 1: to see pictures of Lee Grace and Ryan Dougherty or
Speaker 1: find their addresses to write them in prison, go to
Speaker 1: our instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. If you're enjoying this podcast,
Speaker 1: please listen and subscribe to Crazy in Love, Katie Studio's
Speaker 1: latest true crime podcast. The Dougherty Gang is executive produced
Speaker 1: by Stephanie lie Decker and me Courtney Armstrong, along with
Speaker 1: Beth Greenwald, Sean McEwen, and Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound
Speaker 1: design is by Jeff Twa, additional producing by Chris Graves
Speaker 1: and Jeff Shane. The Docortor Gang is a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.